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View Full Version : The hit and the sh*t from preseason week 1


gyldenlove
08-15-2010, 08:11 PM
Players who did nothing to help themselves:

Perrish Cox: Had a few returns that weren't bad but looked very tentative in coverage and gave up too much real estate on several occasions which allowed the Bengals to make catches they shouldn't have.

Ayodele and Joe Mays: We better hope and pray that DJ, Haggan and Woodyard can play all year because behind those 3 the depth at ILB is non-existant. Mays and Ayodele are pathetic in pass coverage and both missed badly on makeable stop in the run game. Mays looked downright awful tonight.

Matt Willis: camp favourite who must have used the butter tub rather than the glue, he missed a few catches tonight.

Brady Quinn: let me be the first to wish Brady Quinn "hey hey hey, good bye", he has the same problem as Ramsey and Simms, no accuracy and no pocket awareness.

Players who helped themselves like pedobear in a kindergarden:

Champ Bailey: He absolutely still has it, I am not sure if it is his natural ability or his experience, but this guy can still jump in front of a football like it is nobodies business.

Offensive line: I know we ran 2 backups, but they kept Orton clean except for some pressure he could step out of, very nice.

Bannan and Williams: There is no substitute for beef up front, you could tell we were packing more power and more pounds than last year, except for that one Benson run, the 1st line didn't give up a yard uncontested.

Last but not least, Kyle Orton: He was unreal, he worked the pocket like another Drew Brees, he was on target with his throws, his reads were excellent and he had zip. I knew he could do big things this year, but if tonights game is any indicator at all, we may just be looking at the best single season by any Broncos QB ever, more yards and TDs than Cutler, Elway and Griese ever managed.
Orton looks very comfortable out there and you can tell he is on top of things, I am getting very excited about the prospect of neckbeard running the show (as a sidenote, did anyone see Neckbeard Jr (Tebow)?, he has grown a bit of an Orton).

tsiguy96
08-15-2010, 08:12 PM
matt willis may have been the star WR of this game, what are you talking about?

SoCalBronco
08-15-2010, 08:15 PM
matt willis may have been the star WR of this game, what are you talking about?

He only dropped a TD pass from Tebow that's all.

I agree that he did a nice job other than that, though.

KipCorrington25
08-15-2010, 08:15 PM
matt willis may have been the star WR of this game, what are you talking about?

He dropped a TD.

Bronco Rob
08-15-2010, 08:17 PM
Tebow looked a little Joe Kapp'esque.





:afro:

Mogulseeker
08-15-2010, 08:19 PM
Quinn's pocket presence was much better than Simms or Tebow's... his accuracy was off, but after the INT he looked pretty good.

Beantown Bronco
08-15-2010, 08:22 PM
Quinn's pocket presence was much better than Simms or Tebow's... his accuracy was off, but after the INT he looked pretty good.

That's one brutal hangover you'll be dealing with tomorrow.

Gcver2ver3
08-15-2010, 08:22 PM
Players who did nothing to help themselves:

Perrish Cox: Had a few returns that weren't bad but looked very tentative in coverage and gave up too much real estate on several occasions which allowed the Bengals to make catches they shouldn't have.

Ayodele and Joe Mays: We better hope and pray that DJ, Haggan and Woodyard can play all year because behind those 3 the depth at ILB is non-existant. Mays and Ayodele are pathetic in pass coverage and both missed badly on makeable stop in the run game. Mays looked downright awful tonight.

Matt Willis: camp favourite who must have used the butter tub rather than the glue, he missed a few catches tonight.

Brady Quinn: let me be the first to wish Brady Quinn "hey hey hey, good bye", he has the same problem as Ramsey and Simms, no accuracy and no pocket awareness.

Players who helped themselves like pedobear in a kindergarden:

Champ Bailey: He absolutely still has it, I am not sure if it is his natural ability or his experience, but this guy can still jump in front of a football like it is nobodies business.

Offensive line: I know we ran 2 backups, but they kept Orton clean except for some pressure he could step out of, very nice.

Bannan and Williams: There is no substitute for beef up front, you could tell we were packing more power and more pounds than last year, except for that one Benson run, the 1st line didn't give up a yard uncontested.

Last but not least, Kyle Orton: He was unreal, he worked the pocket like another Drew Brees, he was on target with his throws, his reads were excellent and he had zip. I knew he could do big things this year, but if tonights game is any indicator at all, we may just be looking at the best single season by any Broncos QB ever, more yards and TDs than Cutler, Elway and Griese ever managed.
Orton looks very comfortable out there and you can tell he is on top of things, I am getting very excited about the prospect of neckbeard running the show (as a sidenote, did anyone see Neckbeard Jr (Tebow)?, he has grown a bit of an Orton).

u forgot tebow...

he played thru two dropped td passes to still finish with 8-13, 105yds and a rushing TD...a mans rushing td btw...

he ran a hurry up offense to take us the length of the field with like a minute left to play...

ScottXray
08-15-2010, 08:22 PM
Our run game is non existent...Of course we only had Ball back there.. but
I don't think that made too much difference as there weren't any holes to run through.

Quinn...looked the DB right to the ball , held it tooo long and got pick sixed because of it...

Didn't help that we had two potential TDs dropped...one from Quinn and one from Tebow.

Overall our backups aren't as good as Cinncis...But our # 1s even without
the missing players were better than theirs. (excluding run game)

Tebow got the six at the end....took a big chance there. But he is a competitor and throws a nice FAST ball when he has time....and makes something out of nothing a lot. Reminds me of another Broncos QB....? Frankly his throws looked pretty good and he is pretty accurate. Delivery needs to speed up a bit , but that will come.

broncosteven
08-15-2010, 08:23 PM
I am not sold on the run game. I know we trotted out camp fodder tonight but Cinncy was slicing through the hole from the pulling lineman and they were in the backfield quite alot.

I like the downfield attack but we will still need a good run game to reduce the pressure.

I wish they would address the Special Teams. They are still giving up big returns and our guys can't catch the kicks. Vaughn seemed to be the best returner but ST's are going to continue to kill us unless they address this.

Rohirrim
08-15-2010, 08:24 PM
Quinn looks the same as he did in Cleveland, which is why I didn't want him here. Time to go.

Orton, just keeps getting better.

BTW, Champ looked awesome.

McDman
08-15-2010, 08:26 PM
Well, we had zero run game, but that is not a huge concern to me right now. What really concerns me is the total lack of even a hint of defensive pressure. We got stonewalled almost every time we tried to get to the QB. Palmer had all day to throw.

uplink
08-15-2010, 08:27 PM
He dropped a TD.

but he was getting separation

tsiguy96
08-15-2010, 08:27 PM
He dropped a TD.

so his one dropped TD discounts all his other plays, including his 2 catches that bailed out quinn, and on top of that makes him deserving of a list of people who didnt impress? got it

ro_50
08-15-2010, 08:27 PM
For those that watched the game, how did JD Walton and Beadles look?

and from what ya'll saying and looking at the stats, Orton is on top of his game.

broncosteven
08-15-2010, 08:28 PM
Well, we had zero run game, but that is not a huge concern to me right now. What really concerns me is the total lack of even a hint of defensive pressure. We got stonewalled almost every time we tried to get to the QB. Palmer had all day to throw.

I didn't see any blitzs early. I need to rewatch the 1st team now that kids are in bed but I expected a lot more blitzing than last year but maybe they are holding that back?

broncosteven
08-15-2010, 08:30 PM
but he was getting separation

So did Darius Watts. It looked on the drop that he had his hands and body at an odd angle and or got his hands up late. The ball was nicely thrown where it needed to be.

Bronc62
08-15-2010, 08:31 PM
Minnie mouse Alphonso Smith looked is usual self either out of position on pass plays or getting run over by ball carriers.

Ray Finkle
08-15-2010, 08:31 PM
So did Darius Watts. It looked on the drop that he had his hands and body at an odd angle and or got his hands up late. The ball was nicely thrown where it needed to be.

good point...rep for working the claw into the thread...

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 08:31 PM
Well, we had zero run game, but that is not a huge concern to me right now. What really concerns me is the total lack of even a hint of defensive pressure. We got stonewalled almost every time we tried to get to the QB. Palmer had all day to throw.

This is preseason, teams aren't dumb enough to give away their defensive schemes. EVERY team in the nfl will run a kindergarden defense, with maybe a few simple blitzes, this isn't some ground-breaking revolution.

Rohirrim
08-15-2010, 08:31 PM
Ball was getting some room to run, which tells me the line was doing okay, if not spectacular. The offense will be much improved when Knowshon is back there.

Gort
08-15-2010, 08:32 PM
Denver's first team beat the Bengals 14-0. Denver's backups lost 33-10.

it's folly to try to come to conclusions based on the first pre-season game, but here goes anyway...

Denver looks to be lacking depth. the first team O and D look ok. but the backups are either not yet ready, not legit NFL talents, or both.

at this point, i have no expectations about this season. this could be a 10-6 squad. or it could be a 6-10 squad. or worse.

i'm only hoping for the following 2 things from the season.

1) that we don't get pushed around in the 2nd half of games anymore.
2) that we don't slump during the 2nd half of the season anymore.

looks like another AFC West title for the Sparkies is in the offing. :(

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 08:32 PM
Minnie mouse Alphonso Smith looked is usual self either out of position on pass plays or getting run over by ball carriers.

I can't recall a play where phons got run over, unless you're talking about Nathan Jones(#33) who was abused to no end ALL game.

diehardbroncosfan
08-15-2010, 08:33 PM
I didn't see any blitzs early. I need to rewatch the 1st team now that kids are in bed but I expected a lot more blitzing than last year but maybe they are holding that back?

I really don't think we blitzed once, at least not with the first team. And like you were saying, I bet that is due to wanting to hold back until the season.

broncosteven
08-15-2010, 08:34 PM
so his one dropped TD discounts all his other plays, including his 2 catches that bailed out quinn, and on top of that makes him deserving of a list of people who didnt impress? got it

He only had 2 receptions for 54 yards. The guy who I was surprised with was Branson. All camp the reports have been bad on this dude and he caught 4 balls for 25 yards.

Willis was nice but he's got to get those deep balls when thrown to.

ScottXray
08-15-2010, 08:34 PM
Well, we had zero run game, but that is not a huge concern to me right now. What really concerns me is the total lack of even a hint of defensive pressure. We got stonewalled almost every time we tried to get to the QB. Palmer had all day to throw.

Not when the first team D was in...he was getting pressure (sometimes late but always close) on most throws....his release is pretty quick and he got them away....but sometimes earlier than he liked. Once the first string line went out
he took advantage. Until then he was not too effective.

lostknight
08-15-2010, 08:34 PM
Quinn's pocket presence was much better than Simms or Tebow's... his accuracy was off, but after the INT he looked pretty good.

Wow. What are you smoking, and where can I get some?

Hercules Rockefeller
08-15-2010, 08:36 PM
Denver's first team beat the Bengals 14-0. Denver's backups lost 33-10.

it's folly to try to come to conclusions based on the first pre-season game, but here goes anyway...

Denver looks to be lacking depth. the first team O and D look ok. but the backups are either not yet ready, not legit NFL talents, or both.

at this point, i have no expectations about this season. this could be a 10-6 squad. or it could be a 6-10 squad. or worse.

i'm only hoping for the following 2 things from the season.

1) that we don't get pushed around in the 2nd half of games anymore.
2) that we don't slump during the 2nd half of the season anymore.

looks like another AFC West title for the Sparkies is in the offing. :(

The only thing about the depth is, how does it look when the backups who were starting tonight are playing with the 2nd team when the 1st team is healthy?

But yeah, outside of half the starting lineup on defense, this is a pretty young team.

lostknight
08-15-2010, 08:36 PM
Tebow got the six at the end....took a big chance there. But he is a competitor and throws a nice FAST ball when he has time....and makes something out of nothing a lot. Reminds me of another Broncos QB....? Frankly his throws looked pretty good and he is pretty accurate. Delivery needs to speed up a bit , but that will come.

8/13 for 105 yards, and 1 TD (which I think we can pretend like it's a pass for calculation reasons, given the two TDs dropped, and the fact that he rushed for a third) == a QB rating of 115. Not horrible start by any means. Lots of room for improvement though - especially at recognizing blitzes. He is definitely as elusive and as much as a weapon as we thought he was.

broncosteven
08-15-2010, 08:37 PM
I can't recall a play where phons got run over, unless you're talking about Nathan Jones(#33) who was abused to no end ALL game.

Smith was Ok, he has a way to go but he was a sure tackler which is something most corners don't want or know how to do.

Champ was the only guy on the D who impressed. Ayers disappeared and lost his man on a drag which went for a 1st down on 3rd. Bannan had a good run stop but I was hoping the pocket would be crushed by our new DL. It is still early though.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 08:38 PM
Matt Willis is a scrub, he is TC fodder that will be let go, I wish people would shut up about "how great he looks". He's a nobody.

brncs_fan
08-15-2010, 08:39 PM
I can't recall a play where phons got run over, unless you're talking about Nathan Jones(#33) who was abused to no end ALL game.

I can think of a running play where he was totally useless and another play where the TE simply ran over him right off the top of my head.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 08:40 PM
Smith was Ok, he has a way to go but he was a sure tackler which is something most corners don't want or know how to do.

Champ was the only guy on the D who impressed. Ayers disappeared and lost his man on a drag which went for a 1st down on 3rd. Bannan had a good run stop but I was hoping the pocket would be crushed by our new DL. It is still early though.

Exactly, it's very early. Ayers sealed the edge well on run plays, and got a nice push up front on a few rushing downs. But honestly we have no idea what he is capable of considering we ran a vanilla defense(just like we will ALL pre-season) and he was never put in an actual blitz package asking him to generate pressure.

TheChamp24
08-15-2010, 08:40 PM
Our backups sucked horribly, I don't see much positive if any from their play. Tebow played decently, but the OL was horrible and absolutely no running game to speak of. I'm worried about that facet of our game.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 08:41 PM
Our backups sucked horribly, I don't see much positive if any from their play. Tebow played decently, but the OL was horrible and absolutely no running game to speak of. I'm worried about that facet of our game.

You're worried about a pre-season offense that featured Lance Ball?LOL

lostknight
08-15-2010, 08:41 PM
Our backups sucked horribly, I don't see much positive if any from their play. Tebow played decently, but the OL was horrible and absolutely no running game to speak of. I'm worried about that facet of our game.

Bear in mind, we traded a coach that builds a RB heavy system for a coach that builds a WR heavy system. New England is not exactly known as a rushing powerhouse every year, and the focus on power blocking won't help out our running much.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 08:42 PM
I can think of a running play where he was totally useless and another play where the TE simply ran over him right off the top of my head.

You can think of a running play where a CORNERBACK was useless against the run, and got run over by a TIGHT END? wow, he must really suck.

Broncoman13
08-15-2010, 08:50 PM
Players who did nothing to help themselves:

Perrish Cox: Had a few returns that weren't bad but looked very tentative in coverage and gave up too much real estate on several occasions which allowed the Bengals to make catches they shouldn't have.

I agree, wasn't too impressed with Cox. He'll learn and build from this experience though. Not worried about him, but hope to see more in the coming weeks.

Ayodele and Joe Mays: We better hope and pray that DJ, Haggan and Woodyard can play all year because behind those 3 the depth at ILB is non-existant. Mays and Ayodele are pathetic in pass coverage and both missed badly on makeable stop in the run game. Mays looked downright awful tonight.

Not sure about either being terrible, but yeah I hope we get DJ back soon. Big difference in their abilities.

Matt Willis: camp favourite who must have used the butter tub rather than the glue, he missed a few catches tonight.

Inconsistent. Made some good plays and then had some terrible drops. On one drive he really bailed Quinn out and helped get them in scoring position. Just inconsistent.

Brady Quinn: let me be the first to wish Brady Quinn "hey hey hey, good bye", he has the same problem as Ramsey and Simms, no accuracy and no pocket awareness.

Quinn had a very nice play where he stepped up in the pocket and quickly released a beautiful 30 yard pass that couldn't have been any more accurate. His receiver let him down big time. I'll give him a few more weeks before I call for him to be cut. Not a good showing but something to build on.

Players who helped themselves like pedobear in a kindergarden:

Champ Bailey: He absolutely still has it, I am not sure if it is his natural ability or his experience, but this guy can still jump in front of a football like it is nobodies business.

Looks like somebody might be playing for a contract and his reputation as the best in the biz. He looked phenomenal!

Offensive line: I know we ran 2 backups, but they kept Orton clean except for some pressure he could step out of, very nice.

Two Back-ups and two rookies. I thought in the one day I went to camp that they looked better in pass pro than run blocking and that seemed to be the case tonight as well. One thing that I am very encouraged by is the play of Batiste. We may have found a sleeper at LT that can make some starts and prove to be a very good back up for Clady. They struggled with blitzes when I watched at camp and that seemed to be the case today as well.

Bannan and Williams: There is no substitute for beef up front, you could tell we were packing more power and more pounds than last year, except for that one Benson run, the 1st line didn't give up a yard uncontested.

YUP! Bannan was a beast and will really help solidify our DL. That one long run by Benson was a result of Ayers being held and yanked out of the play. He ended up with a penalty against him on that play too!

Last but not least, Kyle Orton: He was unreal, he worked the pocket like another Drew Brees, he was on target with his throws, his reads were excellent and he had zip. I knew he could do big things this year, but if tonights game is any indicator at all, we may just be looking at the best single season by any Broncos QB ever, more yards and TDs than Cutler, Elway and Griese ever managed.
Orton looks very comfortable out there and you can tell he is on top of things, I am getting very excited about the prospect of neckbeard running the show (as a sidenote, did anyone see Neckbeard Jr (Tebow)?, he has grown a bit of an Orton).

The only thing I worry about is his vertical passing. I'm not sure he can truly take advantage of DT's skillset. But as far as running the short and intermediate routes and moving the ball around, very encouraging and the camp reports were spot on with Orton.


Some to add... Eddie Royal! Ran an option route that looked very similar to a Wes Welker "jerk" route. If we can get some decent production from Eddie out of the slot we're going to have a potent offense.

Super Mario... Looked good, played the run very strong and showed why he is a cog in our defense.

Ayers... did a good job of pushing the pocket into the QBs face. He may not get a lot of sacks, but he is disruptive and hopefully that will lead to some rushed passes and INTs.



Not so good... Not impressed with most of our secondary outside of the starting unit. Fonz, Cox, Carter and mainly Jones looked lost at times. I don't know what to think about Fonz at this point. I do know that Jones didn't do much during camp to impress anyone and I saw the same thing tonight.

The receivers outside of the starters are just way too inconsistent which I guess is why they aren't the starters! Still, we need to get DT and Deckers back on the field and that will help a lot.

Tim Tebow taking a huge hit at the end. I still think he got hurt on that play. Loved the aggression and getting into the endzone, but not worth the risk.

TheChamp24
08-15-2010, 08:56 PM
No surprise this will be a pass heavy offense IMO, I just don't see being able to get much on the ground and focusing on the pass a lot.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 08:58 PM
No surprise this will be a pass heavy offense IMO, I just don't see being able to get much on the ground and focusing on the pass a lot.

Yea, if Lance Ball is our running back. Everyone is getting too worked up about this.

Br0nc0Buster
08-15-2010, 09:08 PM
The Oline was a nice surprise
Cinci has a solid defensive line, and Orton had a nice pocket for the most part

We were starting two rookies and two backups, so I expected us to get owned in pass protection, but they held their own

our pass rush concerns me a little
Ayers got some push, but there were a couple times where Palmer had all day

McDman
08-15-2010, 09:09 PM
So did Darius Watts. It looked on the drop that he had his hands and body at an odd angle and or got his hands up late. The ball was nicely thrown where it needed to be.

Well to be fair to Watts, it wasn't all his fault. It's terrible he had an accident that ended his career. It's actually kind of messed up people give him nicknames about his crippled hand (not referring to you).

epicSocialism4tw
08-15-2010, 09:16 PM
Tebow looked good.

I'll reiterate that he had the best first game of any of this years rookie class.

Here's the Tebow review:

He threw tight spirals with velocity. This "he cant throw" stuff is a myth. He was generally accurate, and he has a pretty wicked arm.

He really only took off running on the TD. He was flushed out of the pocket on a couple plays, which resulted in a couple of spectacular throws, a forced throw that should have been picked, and an overthrow. There were glimpses of something special, and there were glimpses of rookie mistakes.

Dude's massive. He's tough to bring down and he brings the wood when he hits.

I came away generally encouraged and my expectations were high.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 09:16 PM
The Oline was a nice surprise
Cinci has a solid defensive line, and Orton had a nice pocket for the most part

We were starting two rookies and two backups, so I expected us to get owned in pass protection, but they held their own

our pass rush concerns me a little
Ayers got some push, but there were a couple times where Palmer had all day


It's preseason, there will be NO blitz packages or any pressure schemes. We will run a vanilla defense, it's to safeguard ourselves from tipping our hand prematurely. We will wait til at least week 1 before teams can get meaningful tape on our defensive scheme.

dsmoot
08-15-2010, 09:16 PM
Tebow looked a little Joe Kapp'esque.





:afro:

A decent comparison from a physical standpoint. Come On. Do you really remember how Joe Kapp threw the ball. It wobbled like he was throwing into a 40 mph wind except the flags were limp. That comparison is highly unfair to Tebow.

gyldenlove
08-15-2010, 09:21 PM
I would like to add I deliberately left out Tebow from consideration because I didn't watch the last 10 minutes, he looked good in his first drive but that was all really saw.

About Willis, he didn't do anything special on returns, he dropped a huge pass when he was open and Tebow put it right where it should be, he had one other drop than that long pass, it was a Quinn pass.

Ayodele and Mays looked the worst to me, on so many plays they bought the simple playfake or got out of position, they are both atrocious in pass coverage and gave up plays in zone coverage.

Did anyone catch that bad snap between Walton and Quinn, was that Quinn looking the other way or Walton snapping the ball funny? I got 2 looks at it both from bad angles and it looked to me like the snap was decent but Quinn was looking elsewhere, but I may be wrong.

R8R H8R
08-15-2010, 09:22 PM
My thoughts on the game:

1st team OL pass protection was superb. Not going to worry about the run blocking until our starting RB's are back. BTW, McD said in post game that they purposely emphasized the passing game over running game. IDK why, but it showed in that we ran only a couple of times when Orton was in there.

BTW, for those of you wringing your hands over the OL, consider this: we started 2 rookies and a back-up at left tackle. I remember in 2008, the 1st preseason game I believe was Houston, and Clady and Harris were the new bookends at tackle. Clady got OWNED by Mario Williams and Harris struggled as well. Anyway, they both got better each game after that and we know what happened.

Orton & Champ look ready for the season to start. 'Nuff said.

1st team defense looks stout up front and should be good against the run, but lacks consistent pressure against the pass. Hopefully, it can be manufactured creatively in the regular season.

2nd & 3rd team defense & OL sucked tonight.

Quinn looks lost. Let's see if he improves.

Tebow has the "it" factor. I would not be surprised if he overtakes Quinn before too long.

epicSocialism4tw
08-15-2010, 09:22 PM
Well to be fair to Watts, it wasn't all his fault. It's terrible he had an accident that ended his career. It's actually kind of messed up people give him nicknames about his crippled hand (not referring to you).

Agreed.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 09:23 PM
I would like to add I deliberately left out Tebow from consideration because I didn't watch the last 10 minutes, he looked good in his first drive but that was all really saw.

About Willis, he didn't do anything special on returns, he dropped a huge pass when he was open and Tebow put it right where it should be, he had one other drop than that long pass, it was a Quinn pass.

Ayodele and Mays looked the worst to me, on so many plays they bought the simple playfake or got out of position, they are both atrocious in pass coverage and gave up plays in zone coverage.

Did anyone catch that bad snap between Walton and Quinn, was that Quinn looking the other way or Walton snapping the ball funny? I got 2 looks at it both from bad angles and it looked to me like the snap was decent but Quinn was looking elsewhere, but I may be wrong.


If I recall correctly, Quinn was looking at Tebow pass him on the depth chart and his NFL career fade to black.

ScottXray
08-15-2010, 09:24 PM
I would like to add I deliberately left out Tebow from consideration because I didn't watch the last 10 minutes, he looked good in his first drive but that was all really saw.

About Willis, he didn't do anything special on returns, he dropped a huge pass when he was open and Tebow put it right where it should be, he had one other drop than that long pass, it was a Quinn pass.

Ayodele and Mays looked the worst to me, on so many plays they bought the simple playfake or got out of position, they are both atrocious in pass coverage and gave up plays in zone coverage.

Did anyone catch that bad snap between Walton and Quinn, was that Quinn looking the other way or Walton snapping the ball funny? I got 2 looks at it both from bad angles and it looked to me like the snap was decent but Quinn was looking elsewhere, but I may be wrong.

The snap was weak wristed....it never made it back to Tebow...fell about 4 feet short of him on the field...
Definitely the Centers fault.

Opps...wrong bad snap...I was thinking of the one late in the fourth qtr.

On the Quinn snap it looked to me like Quinn was pulling his hands away before the ball got up to his hands...but it could have been Walton was late with the snap...
Quinn should have handled it anyway.

Williams
08-15-2010, 09:24 PM
Kirlew and Atkins both looked solid. Good to see, as we definitely need others to step up with Dumervil out.

Bigdawg26
08-15-2010, 09:25 PM
JD Walton looked pretty good out there I was very impressed. Beadles on the other hand did pretty well but got beat a couple of times in pass protection.

epicSocialism4tw
08-15-2010, 09:25 PM
The snap was weak wristed....it never made it back to Tebow...fell about 4 feet short of him on the field...
Definitely the Centers fault.

Walton literally smacked his own butt with the ball and it rebounded onto the ground where Tebow gathered said buttbounded ball and turned it into a gain.

The TV production was particularly bad. They should have been able to show those things on replay and comment about them, but they couldnt manage to do either. I also felt that Reggie Rivers was trying to focus on Tebow's faults while the other guy tried to undo Rivers' bias.

lostknight
08-15-2010, 09:31 PM
He threw tight spirals with velocity. This "he cant throw" stuff is a myth. He was generally accurate, and he has a pretty wicked arm.


I just rewatched the Willis pass that was dropped. He threw from his 30 to the opposing thirty - 40 yards and perfectly on the money. That's what his mechanics buy him.

strafen
08-15-2010, 09:36 PM
First pre-season game I know, but our running game or lack thereof is a concern.
Hopefully Fargas with another week under his belt will be able to give us more options to run the ball next week against Detroit and Tony Scheffler

diehardbroncosfan
08-15-2010, 09:42 PM
First pre-season game I know, but our running game or lack thereof is a concern.
Hopefully Fargas with another week under his belt will be able to give us more options to run the ball next week against Detroit and Tony Scheffler

Fargas, plus Buckhalter is supposed to be back as well. Both should help immensely, and there's the off chance we might get Westbrook still.

Broncoman13
08-15-2010, 09:44 PM
Our backups sucked horribly, I don't see much positive if any from their play. Tebow played decently, but the OL was horrible and absolutely no running game to speak of. I'm worried about that facet of our game.

Really? How about the play of Batiste, Haggan at OLB, Woodyard in the middle, Lloyd/Gaffney assuming our #1 pick is a starter? Who was that guy playing RG... Wasn't Kuper. How about all of the RBs? Hate to point out the obvious but we had several of our best players sitting this one out. Clady, Doom, Dawkins, Moreno, Buck, DJ, Kuper, do you get the point? Our top pick at WR out. Decker out. All of these guys are significant pieces of this team. Many of the starting unit were from our depth! Are Cincy's ones better than our twos and threes... Yup, and who cares?

bpc
08-15-2010, 09:54 PM
Kyle Orton actually looked great out there today. Yes, I said it. Competition is golden in this respect, even if Bradi looked completely inept playing for us. Tebow needs to get rid of the ball quicker and quit winding up or he's going to have a shoulder like Chad Pennington. I don't blame all of Tebow's ills on him. The depth on the offense he was playing with was horrendous. We couldn't run, we didn't try to run and the OL in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters were basically terrible all around.

The run game was non-existent. I hate to break it to most but I don't think that really changes with Knowshon and Buck back there. The 1st team look very solid pass blocking, run blocking left A LOT to be desired on all levels.

I actually think the WR's will be ok if we exclusively use Royal in the slot and if Lloyd gets his act together and becomes consistent. I think he's the ideal guy who can line up outside, stretch the defense and make the safeties respect the big play. Still, he's got a track record of immaturity. Gaffney and Thomas, whenever he gets around to playing, will also look great on the outside. Relegate Stokely to 4th and 5th down WR and we'll be good on this front.

Still, this offense is going to run into trouble when the defenses figure out they don't have to respect the run and they start dropping back 7 and 8 defenders. That is when I think Orton's efficiency will probably hurt this team a la Brian Griese. 3rd and 10, he'll check down to the 5 yd route because it's open and punt the ball.

First two levels of the defense looked pathetic. Ayers is too concerned with bullrushing his guy every play instead of actually making the play. He's gotta knock that off, learn to switch up his pass rushing moves. Finesse off those power moves sometimes... work in that spin he had at Tennessee when he gets guys leaning.

I thought the Bengals ran at will against us. Jamaal Williams will change how teams play us, if he's healthy, but man the OL was swallowing our DL and getting on top of our LB's. We're definitely going to miss Doom this year. I don't see anybody with half the ability to rush the passer that he did which is going to put a whole lot more pressure on our talented, yet older secondary. Add another second or two onto their coverage responsibilities. Our backup defenders got ran up and down the field.

I don't necessarily think this would be a terrible team. Record would have been very similar to last years if not for all the injuries. With those taken into account, I think we're in for a rough ride this year. Ah well, they can only get better from here. Glad Orton/Champ set the tempo on their respective sides of the ball in the 1st game.

Williams
08-15-2010, 10:00 PM
Are Cincy's ones better than our twos and threes... Yup, and who cares?

??? Our twos schooled Cincy's ones.

bpc
08-15-2010, 10:00 PM
Kirlew and Atkins both looked solid. Good to see, as we definitely need others to step up with Dumervil out.

I thought Atkins had some solid plays in this game.

bpc
08-15-2010, 10:02 PM
Walton literally smacked his own butt with the ball and it rebounded onto the ground where Tebow gathered said buttbounded ball and turned it into a gain.

The TV production was particularly bad. They should have been able to show those things on replay and comment about them, but they couldnt manage to do either. I also felt that Reggie Rivers was trying to focus on Tebow's faults while the other guy tried to undo Rivers' bias.

Tebow definitely wasn't perfect but he wasn't helped out at all by the players around him. The rush game sucked, the OL couldn't block and when Tebow threw a great deep ball, Willis dropped the damn thing.

Tebow needs to READ THE DEFENSE FASTER! My god, same things i was saying watching training camp footage happened in this game. It's going to get him killed. And when he does throw the ball, kid has to cut that wind up out. That thing looked like Mr. Fantastic throwing a football.

Besides those deals, i thought he looked solid in a lot of respects. He's gonna take a little while to get to where he needs to help us out.

Broncoman13
08-15-2010, 10:08 PM
??? Our twos schooled Cincy's ones.

Really b/c the scoreboard says our 2s and 3s gave up 33 points.

outdoor_miner
08-15-2010, 10:13 PM
First two levels of the defense looked pathetic. Ayers is too concerned with bullrushing his guy every play instead of actually making the play. He's gotta knock that off, learn to switch up his pass rushing moves. Finesse off those power moves sometimes... work in that spin he had at Tennessee when he gets guys leaning.

What??? Our First-Team Run D looked pretty good, with one exception (where McBath got juked)... Granted, I was trying to watch on-line with a flaky connection, but I only remember one big run. Everything else was shut down at the line.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 10:17 PM
Really b/c the scoreboard says our 2s and 3s gave up 33 points.

You can thank Cox and Quinn for 14 of those points they scored.

Broncoman13
08-15-2010, 10:18 PM
Tebow definitely wasn't perfect but he wasn't helped out at all by the players around him. The rush game sucked, the OL couldn't block and when Tebow threw a great deep ball, Willis dropped the damn thing.

Tebow needs to READ THE DEFENSE FASTER! My god, same things i was saying watching training camp footage happened in this game. It's going to get him killed. And when he does throw the ball, kid has to cut that wind up out. That thing looked like Mr. Fantastic throwing a football.

Besides those deals, i thought he looked solid in a lot of respects. He's gonna take a little while to get to where he needs to help us out.

With the time Orton was getting the so called wind up is a non issue. As far as reading the defenses faster... Film study. I thought his presnap reads were what was lacking the most. That comes with repetition though. He will go back to the film room and see the things he should have seen before the ball was snapped. Like he said in his post game interview, "there is a lot we have to improve, there is a lot I know I need to improve on.". This was the first time out. He looked better than Bradford and wasn't afraid to throw the ball around. Two poor decisions to throw and several very good passes. Plus right now he is fighting his natural urge to just run the ball. When the games count, he will get it done any way he can. I liked what I saw from him tonight. Think back to the Sr. Bowl and compare that game to tonight's game. He is with a staff that knows how to get the most out of him and if Quinn has another poor outing, Tebow's reps will increase as will his ability on the field at this level.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 10:19 PM
What??? Our First-Team Run D looked pretty good, with one exception (where McBath got juked)... Granted, I was trying to watch on-line with a flaky connection, but I only remember one big run. Everything else was shut down at the line.

Agreed, Benson had one nice run against us and that was all the 1st team gave up, Williams and Bannan were smothering. As for the pass rush, no ****, it's preseason we WILL NOT see blitzes and pressure packages because these games DO NOT MEAN ANYTHING. I don't know how people don't understand this.

Br0nc0Buster
08-15-2010, 10:20 PM
It's preseason, there will be NO blitz packages or any pressure schemes. We will run a vanilla defense, it's to safeguard ourselves from tipping our hand prematurely. We will wait til at least week 1 before teams can get meaningful tape on our defensive scheme.

yes I expect our defense to be very aggressive unlike what we were doing tonight, however it is a little concerning if you have to blitz to get pressure

I thought the run defense was good though
wont judge the run offense because of so many injuries and that fact that Josh stated they wanted to emphasize the passing game

Williams
08-15-2010, 10:20 PM
Really b/c the scoreboard says our 2s and 3s gave up 33 points.

No worries bro, our C and D team gave up 33. Injuries considered, we essentially started the game with our 2nd string and went up 14-0.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-15-2010, 10:24 PM
Tebow definitely wasn't perfect but he wasn't helped out at all by the players around him. The rush game sucked, the OL couldn't block and when Tebow threw a great deep ball, Willis dropped the damn thing.

Tebow needs to READ THE DEFENSE FASTER! My god, same things i was saying watching training camp footage happened in this game. It's going to get him killed. And when he does throw the ball, kid has to cut that wind up out. That thing looked like Mr. Fantastic throwing a football.

Besides those deals, i thought he looked solid in a lot of respects. He's gonna take a little while to get to where he needs to help us out.

Geez, tough crowd. How dare tebow not be a master of reading defenses in his first NFL preseason game.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 10:24 PM
yes I expect our defense to be very aggressive unlike what we were doing tonight, however it is a little concerning if you have to blitz to get pressure

I thought the run defense was good though
wont judge the run offense because of so many injuries and that fact that Josh stated they wanted to emphasize the passing game


Without blitzes it makes it hard to generate a pass rush as a 34 defense. Rushing three(non-pass rushing) lineman and one LBer probably isn't going to generate a great pass rush, compared to 43 front with solid rushing DEs. When we add blitzes, stunts, and additional pressure packages I don't think we will be so worried. Are we going to miss Doom? Yes. Will our defense be anything like it was tonight? Absolutely not.

gyldenlove
08-15-2010, 10:26 PM
No significant injuries, something a lot of other teams have been unable to produce in their opener. If it is true that Clady could be back by the end of the month, if Kuper plays a few preseason games, Moreno and Buck both come back along with DJ, Moss, Dawkins on defense we might actually be a good team.

BigPlayShay
08-15-2010, 10:28 PM
Where was Richard Quinn? Is he banged up? I saw Branson and Geer in with the ones when they ran 2 TE.

outdoor_miner
08-15-2010, 10:28 PM
Agreed, Benson had one nice run against us and that was all the 1st team gave up, Williams and Bannan were smothering. As for the pass rush, no ****, it's preseason we WILL NOT see blitzes and pressure packages because these games DO NOT MEAN ANYTHING. I don't know how people don't understand this.

Agree on the pass rush. We'll have no idea how good/bad that will be until the season. We are likely not going to dominate 1x1 matchups without Doom, so pressure will have to come from blitzes. We'll have to see how it works out... However, it all starts in stopping the run, and I thought we looked pretty good in that department.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 10:31 PM
Agree on the pass rush. We'll have no idea how good/bad that will be until the season. We are likely not going to dominate 1x1 matchups without Doom, so pressure will have to come from blitzes. We'll have to see how it works out... However, it all starts in stopping the run, and I thought we looked pretty good in that department.

Exactly. No 34 team just runs their team onto the field and tells one linebacker to run at the QB and see what happens. Few players are talented enough to just dominate 1v1 matchups and get sacks, though there are some. Scheming and stunts/blitzes are a nessecity of the 34 D.

Broncoman13
08-15-2010, 10:33 PM
yes I expect our defense to be very aggressive unlike what we were doing tonight, however it is a little concerning if you have to blitz to get pressure

I thought the run defense was good though
wont judge the run offense because of so many injuries and that fact that Josh stated they wanted to emphasize the passing game

The blitzes became a necessity when Doom went down... Hell they were necessary even when Doom was healthy. I saw a ton of blitzes while at camp. I commented after that it was reminicent of a Jim Johnson style D with frequent blitzes from all over the place!

boppool
08-15-2010, 10:38 PM
Quinn looks the same as he did in Cleveland, which is why I didn't want him here. Time to go.

We're not paying Quinn Simm's money. He's cheap since he won't play much this season. It's just one game and Quinn is still better than any free agents out there anyway.

I say we keep him as a back up along with Tebow

Broncoman13
08-15-2010, 10:39 PM
No worries bro, our C and D team gave up 33. Injuries considered, we essentially started the game with our 2nd string and went up 14-0.

That is my point exactly! Our depth was used as starters and they played pretty damned well. The long run by Benson was a blown call as Ayers was in position to make the play but yanked/pulled out of position. Should have been a hold call. Ayers and Super Mario are very good at shedding blockers and making the play.

The concern I have that has carried over for about 4 seasons now is our third down defense and our inability to get the D off the field. Way too many conversions allowed. That is why so many teams go for it on 4th down against us. Fortunately we had Champ playing lights out tonight!

outdoor_miner
08-15-2010, 10:42 PM
Can anyone comment on how Alphonso looked? I actually thought he looked decent in the first half (when Cox was getting picked on), but I didn't get to see any of the second half...

Obushma
08-15-2010, 10:45 PM
JD Walton looked pretty good out there I was very impressed. Beadles on the other hand did pretty well but got beat a couple of times in pass protection.

Beadles got beat twice the whole game, and both plays after he got beat, he kicked his opponents ass. Beadles also blocked the NT, then slid down to seal the DE on the Tebow TD run. If anything, i'd say he played great, as it was his first NFL game.

ton80
08-15-2010, 10:45 PM
Denver's first team beat the Bengals 14-0. Denver's backups lost 33-10.

it's folly to try to come to conclusions based on the first pre-season game, but here goes anyway...

Denver looks to be lacking depth. the first team O and D look ok. but the backups are either not yet ready, not legit NFL talents, or both.

at this point, i have no expectations about this season. this could be a 10-6 squad. or it could be a 6-10 squad. or worse.

i'm only hoping for the following 2 things from the season.

1) that we don't get pushed around in the 2nd half of games anymore.
2) that we don't slump during the 2nd half of the season anymore.

looks like another AFC West title for the Sparkies is in the offing. :(

Everything you said is probably true. I will add though that this being Cincy's 2nd game made a difference.

Broncoman13
08-15-2010, 10:45 PM
Can anyone comment on how Alphonso looked? I actually thought he looked decent in the first half (when Cox was getting picked on), but I didn't get to see any of the second half...

I wouldn't trust anybody on the Mane. Half of these fools still think he is #33.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 10:46 PM
Can anyone comment on how Alphonso looked? I actually thought he looked decent in the first half (when Cox was getting picked on), but I didn't get to see any of the second half...

I was pleased with Phons, he wasn't a liability in coverage, and yes he did get run over(but how many CBs lay out TEs?). I think a lot of people think he's still #33, which is now Nate Jones. Smith is now #22.

Broncoman13
08-15-2010, 10:47 PM
Can anyone comment on how Alphonso looked? I actually thought he looked decent in the first half (when Cox was getting picked on), but I didn't get to see any of the second half...

But my assessment of Fonz for tonight... Just another player. Really didn't see anything special, bit didn't see mistakes either.

wolf754life
08-15-2010, 10:54 PM
But my assessment of Fonz for tonight... Just another player. Really didn't see anything special, bit didn't see mistakes either.

this is a very "un" talented football team..........period, adjust yoru expectations accordingly!

montrose
08-15-2010, 10:55 PM
My quick thoughts:

* Now I love Tim Tebow and hope he succeeds for the Broncos, but I'm still not sure if it was a good pick for the Broncos. Not because I doubt Tebow, but I still believe we already have a potential franchise QB in Kyle Orton. I believed it a year ago and believe it now, he just needed to get healthy (finger, ankle) and experience in the system that both Tom Brady and Matt Cassell had year(s) to learn in before playing. Dude looked on freaking point tonight and that's without his franchise LT, starting RG, top 3 RBs and two stud rookie WRs. Orton's second most underrated ability (the first being his arm strength) was shown tonight in his ability to move through the pocket. I know it's easy to say it's just one preseason game, but based on what he did last year in his first year of this complex system - and the progress we've seen - I would not be shocked at all to see Orton go Drew Brees and take his game to a whole new level as Drew did in 2004 when Phillip Rivers came to town. I suppose it'll be a good problem to have, allow Tim to be used in the Wild Horses and develop as a QB but there's no reason Orton can't QB this team for several years to come!

* Most pleasant suprise of the game for me was the OL. They looked about the way they have in camp running the football but the pass pro was much improved, especially on blitzes.

* Our WR corps are going to be so stacked when DT and Decker get back. We've got 6-7 guys who can play.

* I'll give Quinn credit for sticking it out through an awful night and coming up with a FG drive but he looked more like a rookie than Tebow at times. Carter really let him down with that drop, that could've completely changed his fortunes.

* The DL was stout as they've been through camp but I'm worried about the ILBs if they're not DJ and Haggan. Mays and Ayodele play the run okay (not great) but looked lost in pass pro. The pass rush is going to be an issue unless we blitz like hell (which I think we'll do). Ayers was the only guy who showed he can even get close to the QB, hopefully the Moss reports were true and Elvis can come back at some point this year. The young LBs looked lost to me, especially in the running game.

* Champ looked unfreaking real, best I've seen him look since 2006. Also, Goodman might be our most underrated player - he is really good. The backup DBs looked much the way they have to me in camp. Jones sucks, Cox is up-and-down and Smith is steady in man coverage. None of them look good in the run game.

* Overall I feel pretty decent about tonight's performance. We were missing a lot of key guys in Clady, Doom, Kuper, Knowshon, Buck, White, DT, Decker, Moss, Dawkins. DJ and Larsen. We get those guys back at some point and the potential is there to make some serious noise. I think Orton can cover up for a lot of the mistakes in the short term (yes, I have that much confidence in him) and we will benefit from addition by subtraction with Marshall and Scheffler gone.

As I've felt all along, Josh McDaniels and company have this organization heading in the right direction.

outdoor_miner
08-15-2010, 11:00 PM
But my assessment of Fonz for tonight... Just another player. Really didn't see anything special, bit didn't see mistakes either.

Thanks. I appreciate it. I saw people killing phonz on another board, and I thought he looked decent in the first half (I agree with you that it was nothing special, but he looked fine). I still think people are getting confused with the numbers.

Anyway... I think I need to quit hoping he's going to suddenly become a great player. I just got excited by his potential early last year, and it sucks when players never live up to those initial glimpses.

outdoor_miner
08-15-2010, 11:03 PM
We were missing a lot of key guys in Clady, Doom, Kuper, Knowshon, Buck, White, DT, Decker, Moss, Dawkins. DJ and Larsen.

I was with you until White... No calling him a "key guy". ;)

lostknight
08-15-2010, 11:05 PM
I still don't buy in Orton's ability to take the team and put it on his back. I also don't trust pre-season. Jake Plummer had a ~150 point average QB rating in pre-season in 2006. We all know how that turned out.

But so far everything, with the exception of Cox, matches what we are seeing in practice. Quinn's had accuracy issues all camp, Orton's looked good, and while Tebow's been overwhelmed at times, he has by far the best downfield ball, and elusive nature in or out of the pocket.

Zoobie
08-15-2010, 11:08 PM
My quick thoughts:

* Now I love Tim Tebow and hope he succeeds for the Broncos, but I'm still not sure if it was a good pick for the Broncos. Not because I doubt Tebow, but I still believe we already have a potential franchise QB in Kyle Orton. I believed it a year ago and believe it now, he just needed to get healthy (finger, ankle) and experience in the system that both Tom Brady and Matt Cassell had year(s) to learn in before playing. Dude looked on freaking point tonight and that's without his franchise LT, starting RG, top 3 RBs and two stud rookie WRs. Orton's second most underrated ability (the first being his arm strength) was shown tonight in his ability to move through the pocket. I know it's easy to say it's just one preseason game, but based on what he did last year in his first year of this complex system - and the progress we've seen - I would not be shocked at all to see Orton go Drew Brees and take his game to a whole new level as Drew did in 2004 when Phillip Rivers came to town. I suppose it'll be a good problem to have, allow Tim to be used in the Wild Horses and develop as a QB but there's no reason Orton can't QB this team for several years to come!

* Most pleasant suprise of the game for me was the OL. They looked about the way they have in camp running the football but the pass pro was much improved, especially on blitzes.

* Our WR corps are going to be so stacked when DT and Decker get back. We've got 6-7 guys who can play.

* I'll give Quinn credit for sticking it out through an awful night and coming up with a FG drive but he looked more like a rookie than Tebow at times. Carter really let him down with that drop, that could've completely changed his fortunes.

* The DL was stout as they've been through camp but I'm worried about the ILBs if they're not DJ and Haggan. Mays and Ayodele play the run okay (not great) but looked lost in pass pro. The pass rush is going to be an issue unless we blitz like hell (which I think we'll do). Ayers was the only guy who showed he can even get close to the QB, hopefully the Moss reports were true and Elvis can come back at some point this year. The young LBs looked lost to me, especially in the running game.

* Champ looked unfreaking real, best I've seen him look since 2006. Also, Goodman might be our most underrated player - he is really good. The backup DBs looked much the way they have to me in camp. Jones sucks, Cox is up-and-down and Smith is steady in man coverage. None of them look good in the run game.

* Overall I feel pretty decent about tonight's performance. We were missing a lot of key guys in Clady, Doom, Kuper, Knowshon, Buck, White, DT, Decker, Moss, Dawkins. DJ and Larsen. We get those guys back at some point and the potential is there to make some serious noise. I think Orton can cover up for a lot of the mistakes in the short term (yes, I have that much confidence in him) and we will benefit from addition by subtraction with Marshall and Scheffler gone.

As I've felt all along, Josh McDaniels and company have this organization heading in the right direction.

I agree Orton looks great, especially much better healthy. Having said that, you can never have too much depth. If Tebow pans out, even better. We could end up in a scenario like atlanta did with Matt Schaub where they made a killing by trading him.

montrose
08-15-2010, 11:09 PM
I was with you until White... No calling him a "key guy". ;)

I was just listing guys I figured could contribute better than who we had on the field. White's better than any of the RBs we marched out, and I actually like Ball. We also didn't see Fargas.

broncowill
08-15-2010, 11:11 PM
from what i saw it looks like going up against jamal williams in practice has really helped walton. as for beadles i saw him get beat 2 times on the first drive and after that he did very well.

i didnt notice the #22 phonz much which usually means he is doing well in coverage.

1st team dline dominated the running game and were getting some push in the passing game put not much pressure but that doesnt worry me to much because doom didnt get much pressure last year in preseason and became the nfls sack leader.

and people are wondering why we didnt run the ball much my guess is its because none of the backs playing today are going to be on the roster come regular season so might as well give reps to players who will be on the roster.

strafen
08-15-2010, 11:18 PM
I still don't buy in Orton's ability to take the team and put it on his back. I also don't trust pre-season. Jake Plummer had a ~150 point average QB rating in pre-season in 2006. We all know how that turned out.

But so far everything, with the exception of Cox, matches what we are seeing in practice. Quinn's had accuracy issues all camp, Orton's looked good, and while Tebow's been overwhelmed at times, he has by far the best downfield ball, and elusive nature in or out of the pocket.I would've loved to see Orton run the 3rd string team. ROFL!

montrose
08-15-2010, 11:23 PM
I agree Orton looks great, especially much better healthy. Having said that, you can never have too much depth. If Tebow pans out, even better. We could end up in a scenario like atlanta did with Matt Schaub where they made a killing by trading him.

Yup, depth at the league's most valuable position is always a good thing. And I love Tebow, I think he's got the "it" factor and could be a monster one day. It's just my belief that Orton's an awesome fit in this system and he's only going to get better with more experience in this system.

Think of it this way, if the Broncos had not drafted Tebow and Orton turned in this type of performance in camp and his first game - we'd be talking contract extention right now. That's why I laugh at this talk that McD has married his career to Tebow. The media acts as if he were the 1st pick in the draft, paid $50 million guaranteed and needs to get on the field immediately. Tebow was #25, where Aaron Rodgers went I believe, and Rodgers sat the bench for 3 years - without any special packages designed for him.

There is no reason Tebow HAS to start for the Broncos next season unless Orton regresses, which I highly doubt based on evidence. Believe in the Neckbeard!

SoCalBronco
08-15-2010, 11:25 PM
I was just listing guys I figured could contribute better than who we had on the field. White's better than any of the RBs we marched out, and I actually like Ball. We also didn't see Fargas.

I agree. I can't wait to see Black Hillis in a game for us.

Mogulseeker
08-15-2010, 11:26 PM
Wow. What are you smoking, and where can I get some?

Tonight? Strawberry Cough.... I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy.

Disclaimer: I don't smoke.

montrose
08-15-2010, 11:30 PM
I agree. I can't wait to see Black Hillis in a game for us.

Awesome, simply awesome.

lostknight
08-15-2010, 11:31 PM
I would've loved to see Orton run the 3rd string team. ROFL!

There would have been a ankle injury. It's amazing how many assignments were missed.

bpc
08-15-2010, 11:34 PM
With the time Orton was getting the so called wind up is a non issue. As far as reading the defenses faster... Film study. I thought his presnap reads were what was lacking the most. That comes with repetition though. He will go back to the film room and see the things he should have seen before the ball was snapped. Like he said in his post game interview, "there is a lot we have to improve, there is a lot I know I need to improve on.". This was the first time out. He looked better than Bradford and wasn't afraid to throw the ball around. Two poor decisions to throw and several very good passes. Plus right now he is fighting his natural urge to just run the ball. When the games count, he will get it done any way he can. I liked what I saw from him tonight. Think back to the Sr. Bowl and compare that game to tonight's game. He is with a staff that knows how to get the most out of him and if Quinn has another poor outing, Tebow's reps will increase as will his ability on the field at this level.

I agree with much of this. The windup is an issue though. It's the difference of a completed pass vs. a sack or pass breakup.

bpc
08-15-2010, 11:35 PM
Geez, tough crowd. How dare tebow not be a master of reading defenses in his first NFL preseason game.

If it sounds like i'm critical, it's because I don't want Tebow getting his arm/shoulder destroyed before he can pay off dividends for us.

lostknight
08-15-2010, 11:40 PM
Yup, depth at the league's most valuable position is always a good thing. And I love Tebow, I think he's got the "it" factor and could be a monster one day. It's just my belief that Orton's an awesome fit in this system and he's only going to get better with more experience in this system.


The more I look at McDaniel's system, the more I think it's designed for wide receivers - to enable QB to WR yardage the same way Shanny's system was designed to push running backs. Josh was at his most successful in New England running a spread offense, and I think the same will be true here. The spread is most successful with a Quarterback who is a running threat.

Somewhat similar to how Tennessee ripped up so much offense last year - Young as a running threat made Chris Johnson a much more effective threat. A extremely accurate mobile quarterback buys you more then a accurate quarterback who is confined to the pocket.

That's not even touching the marketing difference between Orton and Tebow. Brady and Manning - as well as Farve and Elway before he retired - made people watch even when they were not football fans. Tebow does the same. That's insanely lucrative to the league.


Think of it this way, if the Broncos had not drafted Tebow and Orton turned in this type of performance in camp and his first game - we'd be talking contract extention right now.

We were talking it before the end of last season, before we decided to invest one player and four draft picks in new quarterbacks not named Orton. Orton's stepped up his game, because it's in his interest to. Make a killing this year, and secure his future with a five year 35-45 million dollar contract. Or take a franchise year from Denver, and do the same thing the year after. Or suck this year, and forever be battling in the 3-7 million per year range, with two year contracts.


That's why I laugh at this talk that McD has married his career to Tebow. The media acts as if he were the 1st pick in the draft, paid $50 million guaranteed and needs to get on the field immediately. Tebow was #25, where Aaron Rodgers went I believe, and Rodgers sat the bench for 3 years - without any special packages designed for him.

The upside to Tebow is that he can have special packages designed for him. When last season, or the last three seasons, did we really score from ten yards out when we absolutely needed too that down? Tebow just did it.


There is no reason Tebow HAS to start for the Broncos next season unless Orton regresses, which I highly doubt based on evidence. Believe in the Neckbeard!

There is no way, at this point, that we give Orton a multi-year contract. Franchise, with a possible trade, yes. But there are too many desperate team willing to give up draft picks, and a steamroller at 245 pounds behind Orton.

~Crash~
08-16-2010, 12:04 AM
I thought Atkins had some solid plays in this game.

Kirlew had a sack not to bad for his first game..

PRBronco
08-16-2010, 12:23 AM
Was Richard Quinn in the dog house? Didn't notice him out there.

MABroncoFan
08-16-2010, 12:27 AM
Was Richard Quinn in the dog house? Didn't notice him out there.

I read he left practice one day later in the week. Maybe he was inactive?

footstepsfrom#27
08-16-2010, 12:36 AM
With the time Orton was getting the so called wind up is a non issue. As far as reading the defenses faster... Film study. I thought his presnap reads were what was lacking the most. That comes with repetition though. He will go back to the film room and see the things he should have seen before the ball was snapped. Like he said in his post game interview, "there is a lot we have to improve, there is a lot I know I need to improve on.". This was the first time out. He looked better than Bradford and wasn't afraid to throw the ball around. Two poor decisions to throw and several very good passes. Plus right now he is fighting his natural urge to just run the ball. When the games count, he will get it done any way he can. I liked what I saw from him tonight. Think back to the Sr. Bowl and compare that game to tonight's game. He is with a staff that knows how to get the most out of him and if Quinn has another poor outing, Tebow's reps will increase as will his ability on the field at this level.
This...not to mention that if a rookie FA holds onto a sure touchdown pass he finishes 9-13/ 175 yards, I TD passing/1 TD rushing; now someone with the formula on a gizmo compute that QB rating and factor in that he's working with mostly a bunch or scrubs to boot. I think he showed straight from the gate what he's about on the TD run and Denver's gonne wind up with the steal of the draft.

Zoobie
08-16-2010, 12:47 AM
This...not to mention that if a rookie FA holds onto a sure touchdown pass he finishes 9-13/ 175 yards, I TD passing/1 TD rushing; now someone with the formula on a gizmo compute that QB rating and factor in that he's working with mostly a bunch or scrubs to boot. I think he showed straight from the gate what he's about on the TD run and Denver's gonne wind up with the steal of the draft.

This can go both ways though. He did it with scrubs, correct. He was also playing against complete scrubs in garbage time. Also, if the DB has better hands he also finished with an interception. I'm not hating on him, but I think we come to the same conclusion every year. The pre-season doesn't really tell us anything, we gotta wait for the real thing.

Ratboy
08-16-2010, 01:19 AM
Anyone have this game on torrent yet?

Quoydogs
08-16-2010, 01:59 AM
Players who did nothing to help themselves:

Perrish Cox: Had a few returns that weren't bad but looked very tentative in coverage and gave up too much real estate on several occasions which allowed the Bengals to make catches they shouldn't have.

Ayodele and Joe Mays: We better hope and pray that DJ, Haggan and Woodyard can play all year because behind those 3 the depth at ILB is non-existant. Mays and Ayodele are pathetic in pass coverage and both missed badly on makeable stop in the run game. Mays looked downright awful tonight.

Matt Willis: camp favourite who must have used the butter tub rather than the glue, he missed a few catches tonight.

Brady Quinn: let me be the first to wish Brady Quinn "hey hey hey, good bye", he has the same problem as Ramsey and Simms, no accuracy and no pocket awareness.

Players who helped themselves like pedobear in a kindergarden:

Champ Bailey: He absolutely still has it, I am not sure if it is his natural ability or his experience, but this guy can still jump in front of a football like it is nobodies business.

Offensive line: I know we ran 2 backups, but they kept Orton clean except for some pressure he could step out of, very nice.

Bannan and Williams: There is no substitute for beef up front, you could tell we were packing more power and more pounds than last year, except for that one Benson run, the 1st line didn't give up a yard uncontested.

Last but not least, Kyle Orton: He was unreal, he worked the pocket like another Drew Brees, he was on target with his throws, his reads were excellent and he had zip. I knew he could do big things this year, but if tonights game is any indicator at all, we may just be looking at the best single season by any Broncos QB ever, more yards and TDs than Cutler, Elway and Griese ever managed.
Orton looks very comfortable out there and you can tell he is on top of things, I am getting very excited about the prospect of neckbeard running the show (as a sidenote, did anyone see Neckbeard Jr (Tebow)?, he has grown a bit of an Orton).
"
I knew he could do big things this year, but if tonights game is any indicator at all, we may just be looking at the best single season by any Broncos QB ever, more yards and TDs than Cutler, Elway and Griese ever managed."

LOLROFL!Hilarious!Ha!

Broncoman13
08-16-2010, 04:51 AM
This can go both ways though. He did it with scrubs, correct. He was also playing against complete scrubs in garbage time. Also, if the DB has better hands he also finished with an interception. I'm not hating on him, but I think we come to the same conclusion every year. The pre-season doesn't really tell us anything, we gotta wait for the real thing.

Preseason tells us plenty. Take a look at what Colt McCoy did. Struggled big time and there are now some serious question marks on him. It is what it is. A preseason performance against B teamers, but one worth noticing and saying I see the promise. Simply put, is there much doubt that Tebow can turn into a good QB, that he has the tools to play QB, that he wasn't a third or fourth round player? Those were the questions and assessments on Tebow when we drafted him. It would take him three years to correct all of his issues before he could play QB, if ever. Hell McD had to even state that he was drafting him as a QB and that is what he would play. Roll forward 4 months from April's draft and we're now talking that it is a no-brainer.... He is a QB and the rate of improvement suggests he'll be on the field much sooner than the three years the experts suggested it would take.

Drek
08-16-2010, 05:11 AM
This can go both ways though. He did it with scrubs, correct. He was also playing against complete scrubs in garbage time. Also, if the DB has better hands he also finished with an interception. I'm not hating on him, but I think we come to the same conclusion every year. The pre-season doesn't really tell us anything, we gotta wait for the real thing.

Sure, but half the scrubs Tebow was running with won't even get a look for the practice squad, while the Bengals where still mixing in some second stringers with their third string.

Take Frosty Rucker for example. He's been a regular 2nd string rotational DE the last couple years. He was in pass rushing on our what, 3rd string OT? Not an even match up at all.

Quinn's pocket presence was much better than Simms or Tebow's... his accuracy was off, but after the INT he looked pretty good.

Quinn had an obvious case of over thinking his job out there yesterday. The ability is there, he just needs to get the instincts to make the right plays.

This has always been Quinn's problem at the NFL level, but then always having some changes being made to your offensive system doesn't help. I'm interested in seeing the player Quinn can become given two straight years working with McDaniels.

In reality Tebow and Quinn had the same problem. Neither knew the offense and their targets well enough. In Tebow's case this lead to a few missed openings and him holding onto the ball for prolonged periods. He can get away with that to some degree because as we saw last night, he's not an easy guy to sack. Quinn meanwhile rushes his throws out to avoid the pressure when he doesn't have comfort in the offense. It leads to a lot of bad throws.

Both settled down with time but both need a good bit longer before we can actually judge their ability to run the offense.

Can anyone comment on how Alphonso looked? I actually thought he looked decent in the first half (when Cox was getting picked on), but I didn't get to see any of the second half...

The best way to describe Smith last night is the old joke about outrunning a bear. You don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than the guy next to you.

Last night Smith basically was never even targeted. Maybe it was because Smith had his guy locked up. Or maybe it was because Cox and Jones where easy pickings.

My general takes from last night's game:

Orton has made another step up in his game. His athleticism is definitely improved and his footwork is much more consistent, leading to some real good pop on his throws. He knows the offense much better now and worked his big three WRs well within it. Definitely good enough to QB a playoff team. A Super Bowl team? Probably not without a great D and running game.

The OL was surprisingly solid considering it was composed of two rookies and two backups. Walton and Beadles showed that they definitely have NFL level talent, they just need reps to work out mistakes. Keep in mind that the Bengals four man front is pretty stout when healthy. Domata Peko is not an easy assignment for pretty much any interior OL in the league.

The WRs did well getting open against some pretty good Bengals corners. The starting three look to be getting comfortable in their roles.

The running game, well, hard to judge when we've got our 4th/5th string runner out there.

On defense I think we saw some nice depth displayed in some spots (Woodyard, the DL) but questions at others. The biggest questions for the 1st team D are generating pass rush beyond what the 3 man front provides, nickel coverage, and TE coverage. The pass rush issue obviously exists because of loosing Doom. Ayers shows the ability to create pressure but he didn't finish it off with sacks. Haggan is not a pass rush threat from OLB, despite being very solid starter there. Sadly, at this point we're hoping on Jarvis Moss and Darrell Reid to make the difference. Our nickel corners also got chewed on, though to be fair they did better in the nickel than they did when asked to move out to the 1 and 2 spots later in the game (scary!) The team had a hard time dealing with a legit threat receiver at TE as well (Gresham). This might be because we ran vanilla defense and so we just put Ayodele, Mays, etc. on the TE (obviously a horrible match up) that we wouldn't do during the regular season, but its a cause for concern.

The 2nd and 3rd strings I'm not too concerned about. A good chunk of them will all get bumped down the depth chart (and frequently off the roster) when guys get back healthy.

The MVPlaya
08-16-2010, 06:14 AM
Orton has made another step up in his game. His athleticism is definitely improved and his footwork is much more consistent, leading to some real good pop on his throws. He knows the offense much better now and worked his big three WRs well within it. Definitely good enough to QB a playoff team. A Super Bowl team? Probably not without a great D and running game.

.

Kind of like Tom Brady?

BMarsh615
08-16-2010, 06:26 AM
Anyone have this game on torrent yet?

I'm downloading it right now but I have been stuck on 14.1% for the past few hours. Hopefully another one is posted today.

epicSocialism4tw
08-16-2010, 06:26 AM
I still don't buy in Orton's ability to take the team and put it on his back. I also don't trust pre-season. Jake Plummer had a ~150 point average QB rating in pre-season in 2006. We all know how that turned out.

It turned out pretty good. He set a bunch of Broncos records on the way to the AFC Championship game.

Eldorado
08-16-2010, 08:28 AM
It turned out pretty good. He set a bunch of Broncos records on the way to the AFC Championship game.

That was '05.

Cito Pelon
08-16-2010, 08:40 AM
Not bad. Looks like a pretty good roster.

gyldenlove
08-16-2010, 08:42 AM
I still don't buy in Orton's ability to take the team and put it on his back. I also don't trust pre-season. Jake Plummer had a ~150 point average QB rating in pre-season in 2006. We all know how that turned out.

But so far everything, with the exception of Cox, matches what we are seeing in practice. Quinn's had accuracy issues all camp, Orton's looked good, and while Tebow's been overwhelmed at times, he has by far the best downfield ball, and elusive nature in or out of the pocket.

No he didn't, he had a 99 rating, a 154 rating and a 58 rating in the 3 games he played (103 straight average, 85 weighted average), his rating for the preseason was 86, his stat line was pretty pedestrian, 19 for 34, 226 yards and 1 TD with no turnovers.

Beantown Bronco
08-16-2010, 08:55 AM
No he didn't, he had a 99 rating, a 154 rating and a 58 rating in the 3 games he played (103 straight average, 85 weighted average), his rating for the preseason was 86, his stat line was pretty pedestrian, 19 for 34, 226 yards and 1 TD with no turnovers.

Ouch. Simply amazes me how people still insist on making things up when the Internet has made it so easy to prove them wrong.

lostknight
08-16-2010, 08:59 AM
It turned out pretty good. He set a bunch of Broncos records on the way to the AFC Championship game.

That was 2005. Plummer's 2004 and 2006 were disasters. 2006 he ended up being pulled for Cutler when he had (IIRC) a 50ish QB rating most the way through the season.

MagicHef
08-16-2010, 09:31 AM
I was impressed by Jeff Stehle, he pretty much had a goal line stand all by himself on one play.

TonyR
08-16-2010, 10:06 AM
I can't start a new thread so I'm posting these random headlines here:

A deeper look at Tim Tebow's mechanics in his debut.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Upon-Further-Review-Tebow-s-first-game?urn=nfl-262659

Tebow's ability to generate ratings has local stations giving people Tebow haircuts.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15790010

Brandon Lloyd played with the starters in Denver, catching three passes. Brandon Stokley only played with the second team.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15790486

Denver's pass rush sans Elvis Dumervil got off to a weak start.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15789126

Broncos S Darrell McBath may have suffered a serious arm injury.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15790428

The calls have already started to demote QB Brady Quinn.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/15727/denver-should-promote-tebow-demote-quinn

TheProfessor
08-16-2010, 10:22 AM
I can't start a new thread so I'm posting these random headlines here:

A deeper look at Tim Tebow's mechanics in his debut.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Upon-Further-Review-Tebow-s-first-game?urn=nfl-262659



but that's another issue he's going to have to correct -- the sheer time it takes him to wind up and get the ball out puts him in a disadvantageous position at a level where every millisecond in the pocket counts.

I agree with this. Like most people around here, I want this kid to succeed, but that wind up could keep him from being a full time starter. I hope not, but the way he stretches that ball out tips off the secondary as well as give DE's a prime opportunity to strip the ball.

He is a fascinating prospect, but he is still just a prospect.

Cito Pelon
08-16-2010, 10:34 AM
I agree with this. Like most people around here, I want this kid to succeed, but that wind up could keep him from being a full time starter. I hope not, but the way he stretches that ball out tips off the secondary as well as give DE's a prime opportunity to strip the ball.

He is a fascinating prospect, but he is still just a prospect.

Tebow DOES NOT HAVE A WIND UP!

It's not just you, it's dozens of posters. TEBOW'S THROWING MOTION IS NOT A WINDUP!

Give it a rest, people. A windup motion is a circular motion, the ball dips down to the hip and come back in a circle before coming forward.

If you want to say he has a slow motion or a long motion, that's fine with me. But please, it isn't a WIND UP!

I'd like to see his motion shortened a little bit, but it's a typical throwing motion that 90% of NFL QB's have had.

TheProfessor
08-16-2010, 10:46 AM
Tebow DOES NOT HAVE A WIND UP!

It's not just you, it's dozens of posters. TEBOW'S THROWING MOTION IS NOT A WINDUP!

Give it a rest, people. A windup motion is a circular motion, the ball dips down to the hip and come back in a circle before coming forward.

If you want to say he has a slow motion or a long motion, that's fine with me. But please, it isn't a WIND UP!

I'd like to see his motion shortened a little bit, but it's a typical throwing motion that 90% of NFL QB's have had.

I'm not sure if I agree with your objection to the word "windup", but to avoid a bunch of word parsing I'll amend my comment.

he has a long slow delivery that tips off DB's and gives DE's an easy shot at stripping the ball.

The thing is, I can't think of a sigle nfl qb that throws like he does - how do you see that 90% throw like him.

DarkHorse
08-16-2010, 10:57 AM
I pray to Tebow that Tebow gets to work with the 2nd team next game. I'd put Quinn in after Prater gets his QB reps.

I thought Timmy looked pretty impressive but keep in mind I also took into account that he was playing without momentum, from behind and with at least 8 offensive players the Broncos picked up at the gates before entering the stadium.

DarkHorse
08-16-2010, 11:01 AM
I'm not sure if I agree with your objection to the word "windup", but to avoid a bunch of word parsing I'll amend my comment.



The thing is, I can't think of a sigle nfl qb that throws like he does - how do you see that 90% throw like him.

Hmmm, pretty sure that the way the college/pro cycle works is that Tebow - regardless of how he threw the ball - played against, dominated some games, completely made other 'college' players look like children. Those former college players are now in the NFL as well - so I don't understand the argument that his throwing motion is ugly. If it works who cares?

So he has a slow ugly windup, who's to say that in a couple years as he develops maybe he'll start his windup before the ball is snapped and then it will be out quicker Hilarious!

TheProfessor
08-16-2010, 11:05 AM
Hmmm, pretty sure that the way the college/pro cycle works is that Tebow - regardless of how he threw the ball - played against, dominated some games, completely made other 'college' players look like children. Those former college players are now in the NFL as well - so I don't understand the argument that his throwing motion is ugly. If it works who cares?

So he has a slow ugly windup, who's to say that in a couple years as he develops maybe he'll start his windup before the ball is snapped and then it will be out quicker Hilarious!

Ugly doesn't bother me, Philip Rivers has the ugliest throwing motion I've seen, but it works.

The problem is, his motion is long and slow. that concerns me, especially with the speed of the pro game.

broncosteven
08-16-2010, 11:07 AM
That was 2005. Plummer's 2004 and 2006 were disasters. 2006 he ended up being pulled for Cutler when he had (IIRC) a 50ish QB rating most the way through the season.

2006 was the year Plummer gave up on the team and the fans. Glad to see Orton elevate his game rather than look for a mens handball team to join.

cutthemdown
08-16-2010, 11:09 AM
Tebows motion is slow and horrid. He will be a turnover machine dropping ball so low and slow. This isn't lowriding!!!!

He plays hard though and has good spirit. I think 1st round a reach for him though.

~Crash~
08-16-2010, 11:11 AM
2006 was the year Plummer gave up on the team and the fans. Glad to see Orton elevate his game rather than look for a mens handball team to join.

the same fans that were cut throating him ..you be a funny Ha!

Cito Pelon
08-16-2010, 11:34 AM
I'm not sure if I agree with your objection to the word "windup", but to avoid a bunch of word parsing I'll amend my comment.

The thing is, I can't think of a sigle nfl qb that throws like he does - how do you see that 90% throw like him.

He has a typical NFL QB motion - it's no different than 90% of the QB's I've seen. It's a long delivery, no doubt about that. He still has a lot of work to do. It's obvious he isn't totally comfortable with the new motion, it's gonna take a year.

Also, you have to factor in he's a southpaw. They always look a little awkward. I did like how he rolled to his right and still completed passes. That's kind of a big deal for a lefty.

bronco militia
08-16-2010, 11:40 AM
2006 was the year Plummer gave up on the team and the fans. Glad to see Orton elevate his game rather than look for a mens handball team to join.

this!

Carmelo15
08-16-2010, 02:48 PM
Relegate Stokely to 4th and 5th down WR and we'll be good on this front.

Did Stokley play for CU in 1990?

Carmelo15
08-16-2010, 02:57 PM
My quick thoughts:

* Now I love Tim Tebow and hope he succeeds for the Broncos, but I'm still not sure if it was a good pick for the Broncos. Not because I doubt Tebow, but I still believe we already have a potential franchise QB in Kyle Orton. I believed it a year ago and believe it now, he just needed to get healthy (finger, ankle) and experience in the system that both Tom Brady and Matt Cassell had year(s) to learn in before playing. Dude looked on freaking point tonight and that's without his franchise LT, starting RG, top 3 RBs and two stud rookie WRs. Orton's second most underrated ability (the first being his arm strength) was shown tonight in his ability to move through the pocket. I know it's easy to say it's just one preseason game, but based on what he did last year in his first year of this complex system - and the progress we've seen - I would not be shocked at all to see Orton go Drew Brees and take his game to a whole new level as Drew did in 2004 when Phillip Rivers came to town. I suppose it'll be a good problem to have, allow Tim to be used in the Wild Horses and develop as a QB but there's no reason Orton can't QB this team for several years to come!

* Most pleasant suprise of the game for me was the OL. They looked about the way they have in camp running the football but the pass pro was much improved, especially on blitzes.

* Our WR corps are going to be so stacked when DT and Decker get back. We've got 6-7 guys who can play.

* I'll give Quinn credit for sticking it out through an awful night and coming up with a FG drive but he looked more like a rookie than Tebow at times. Carter really let him down with that drop, that could've completely changed his fortunes.

* The DL was stout as they've been through camp but I'm worried about the ILBs if they're not DJ and Haggan. Mays and Ayodele play the run okay (not great) but looked lost in pass pro. The pass rush is going to be an issue unless we blitz like hell (which I think we'll do). Ayers was the only guy who showed he can even get close to the QB, hopefully the Moss reports were true and Elvis can come back at some point this year. The young LBs looked lost to me, especially in the running game.

* Champ looked unfreaking real, best I've seen him look since 2006. Also, Goodman might be our most underrated player - he is really good. The backup DBs looked much the way they have to me in camp. Jones sucks, Cox is up-and-down and Smith is steady in man coverage. None of them look good in the run game.

* Overall I feel pretty decent about tonight's performance. We were missing a lot of key guys in Clady, Doom, Kuper, Knowshon, Buck, White, DT, Decker, Moss, Dawkins. DJ and Larsen. We get those guys back at some point and the potential is there to make some serious noise. I think Orton can cover up for a lot of the mistakes in the short term (yes, I have that much confidence in him) and we will benefit from addition by subtraction with Marshall and Scheffler gone.

As I've felt all along, Josh McDaniels and company have this organization heading in the right direction.

This is a great post. I don't necessarily agree with all of your views but montrose you are one of the most valuable posters on the mane. MVP

Finger Roll
08-16-2010, 03:40 PM
Jim Elbow, lol that's great