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View Full Version : If The 2010 Season Is 'Lost', Why Start Tim Tebow??


oubronco
08-14-2010, 12:43 PM
Good read

http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/8/13/1616493/if-the-2010-season-is-lost-why

Jay3
08-14-2010, 01:25 PM
The blogger seems to be bending over backwards to get where he's trying to go with that analysis.

The fact is, the evidence shows a rookie can produce at quarterback in the NFL. If you think he can handle it, and there's not a better option, there's no reason to hold him out "just because he's a rookie."

In other words, the mythical "guy gets ruined because they put him out there too soon" is just a myth. If the guy has it in him, starting earlier helps his progression, doesn't hurt it.

SoCalBronco
08-14-2010, 01:36 PM
He should play when he's ready, whether the season is lost or not.

It's not a "myth" that throwing some kid in the fire might hurt him. This kid needs to learn the ropes through the controlled environment of practice with constant repetition and coaching. He does not need the pressure and the eyes of the whole city on him every Sunday when he doesn't know what he's doing and has huge, rabid LB's trying to tear him apart when he's extremely raw. That's not proper development.

The way the McDaniels brothers are doing it right now is exactly how it should be handled. You work him in practice, and then you work him even more after practice and he's willing to do it. You DON'T throw him into the fire when he's even more raw than most rookie QB's. He should play only in the packages he feels good about. It's irrelevant whether we're 2-6 or 6-2. It's about the long term.

KipCorrington25
08-14-2010, 01:43 PM
You start the season with the QB who gives you the best chance to win but once we're out of the play off race, so about week 8 or so you give Quinn or Tebow a chance if they have shown they are prepared.

broncosteven
08-14-2010, 01:54 PM
He should play when he's ready, whether the season is lost or not.

It's not a "myth" that throwing some kid in the fire might hurt him. This kid needs to learn the ropes through the controlled environment of practice with constant repetition and coaching. He does not need the pressure and the eyes of the whole city on him every Sunday when he doesn't know what he's doing and has huge, rabid LB's trying to tear him apart when he's extremely raw. That's not proper development.

The way the McDaniels brothers are doing it right now is exactly how it should be handled. You work him in practice, and then you work him even more after practice and he's willing to do it. You DON'T throw him into the fire when he's even more raw than most rookie QB's. He should play only in the packages he feels good about. It's irrelevant whether we're 2-6 or 6-2. It's about the long term.

I like the idea of giving him what he can handle. If they want to get him on the field this year it will be out of some wing run based formation. But if we are rolling into week 8-10 and he is ready for more and we have the luxury I would like to see him get that experience sooner rather than later.

Just saying it takes a year without basing it off each rookies growth is just as bad as throwing him out there too soon.

Pseudofool
08-14-2010, 02:22 PM
It's not a "myth" that throwing some kid in the fire might hurt him. I agree it's not a myth, and with your general sentiment that he should play when he's ready. Though I think not all rookies stand to be harmed by being thrown in the fire. I mean, we're talking mental make-up here. Ability to cope with losing, not get stuck in bad habits, etc. If there's a quarterbacks built to withstand the negative impact of playing too early, don't you think Tebow is the posterboy?

SoCalBronco
08-14-2010, 02:39 PM
I agree it's not a myth, and with your general sentiment that he should play when he's ready. Though I think not all rookies stand to be harmed by being thrown in the fire. I mean, we're talking mental make-up here. Ability to cope with losing, not get stuck in bad habits, etc. If there's a quarterbacks built to withstand the negative impact of playing too early, don't you think Tebow is the posterboy?

Your point about mental makeup is well taken and I have no doubt that Tebow has the necessary makeup and intangibles in spades. As you're well aware, however, this is a kid that still has a long way to go in terms of getting the proper mechanics instilled into his muscle memory. This is a task that will take probably several more months. If you throw him out there before what he's being taught is sufficiently ingrained into his muscle memory, he will undoubtedly revert back to his previous style in the heat of the moment, especially when he doesn't know what he's doing and its all instinctual. If they can just work with him....in peace and relative control for a few more months, limiting his appearances to only those special packages and comfortable situations, they can make alot more progress towards fixing the technical elements of his game long term. I'd suggest that if he gets thrown in there before he's ready to do what's required in his sleep, then we are going to be throwing away alot of hard work that's been done towards re-training the muscle memory. He's not there yet in muscle memory, or in general. I'd submit that its a better result to wait it out, record be damned, than to throw him in there just so he can prove he has the mental makeup to deal with losing. We already know he has the emotional intelligence required. The intangible portion of his game is not in dispute, there's nothing more than needs to be proved there, so that rationale alone is insufficient to justify throwing him out there. JMO.

DarkHorse30
08-14-2010, 02:42 PM
As a side observation, if we choose to not embrace the view that the 2010 season is already a lost cause, much of the rationale for throwing Tebow into the starter's role in 2010 vanishes.

This.

Last year's failed predictions prove to me that you DON'T know what Denver is going to do in the regular season until it gets here. Orton is growing comfortable in his role, and the Defense appears to be getting better. Why throw a rook QB in when your starter is performing exactly how you want him to?

My problem with McDaniels so far, as an OC, is that he doesn't call a good game. I see that changing some this year as Orton knows his system better, but with a rook or injured O-line McDaniels is going to have to prove he can work with what he's got and get enough points on the board.

As a HC, I think McDaniels is doing everything right. But he needs to prove to the fans that he knows what he's doing as an OC. Like it or not, Denver fans expect more out of their offense than their defense.

Pseudofool
08-14-2010, 02:59 PM
Your point about mental makeup is well taken and I have no doubt that Tebow has the necessary makeup and intangibles in spades. As you're well aware, however, this is a kid that still has a long way to go in terms of getting the proper mechanics instilled into his muscle memory. This is a task that will take probably several more months. If you throw him out there before what he's being taught is sufficiently ingrained into his muscle memory, he will undoubtedly revert back to his previous style in the heat of the moment, especially when he doesn't know what he's doing and its all instinctual. If they can just work with him....in peace and relative control for a few more months, limiting his appearances to only those special packages and comfortable situations, they can make alot more progress towards fixing the technical elements of his game long term. I'd suggest that if he gets thrown in there before he's ready to do what's required in his sleep, then we are going to be throwing away alot of hard work that's been done towards re-training the muscle memory. He's not there yet in muscle memory, or in general. I'd submit that its a better result to wait it out, record be damned, than to throw him in there just so he can prove he has the mental makeup to deal with losing. We already know he has the emotional intelligence required. The intangible portion of his game is not in dispute, there's nothing more than needs to be proved there, so that rationale alone is insufficient to justify throwing him out there. JMO.
I think your point about muscle memory is a strong one, and something I overlooked in my original thinking. They'll be a learning threshold at some point, where the in-game experience becomes more valuable than the potential muscle-memory set back--so in short, when he's ready. ;D

OBF1
08-14-2010, 03:04 PM
He should play when he's ready, whether the season is lost or not.

It's not a "myth" that throwing some kid in the fire might hurt him. This kid needs to learn the ropes through the controlled environment of practice with constant repetition and coaching. He does not need the pressure and the eyes of the whole city on him every Sunday when he doesn't know what he's doing and has huge, rabid LB's trying to tear him apart when he's extremely raw. That's not proper development.

The way the McDaniels brothers are doing it right now is exactly how it should be handled. You work him in practice, and then you work him even more after practice and he's willing to do it. You DON'T throw him into the fire when he's even more raw than most rookie QB's. He should play only in the packages he feels good about. It's irrelevant whether we're 2-6 or 6-2. It's about the long term.

The QB should think about this when he and his agent is trying to hold a team hostage for a $50,000,000.00 signing bonus. Just sayin

SouthStndJunkie
08-14-2010, 03:12 PM
I would use Tim Tebow much like Florida did his freshman year, when Chris Leak was the starter.

Develop some short yardage and goal line packages he is comfortable with and see what he can do with those.

If he has success and it's working out, then Denver can use those packages more and more and slowly expand his role.

If we get to the last month of the season and we are out of the playoff race, I would have no problem letting Tebow start a few games, if the coaches think he is ready.

Better to do that and cut the learning curve down a little bit for 2011, if the plan is to start Tebow in 2011.

The best scenario would be for the Broncos to be in contention the last month of the year, with Tebow seeing extensive action in those short yardage and goal line packages, with the occasional surprise appearance here and there.

broncosteven
08-14-2010, 03:17 PM
If we get to the last month of the season and we are out of the playoff race, I would have no problem letting Tebow start a few games, if the coaches think he is ready.

Better to do that and cut the learning curve down a little bit for 2011, if the plan is to start Tebow in 2011.


I agree, if he is ready break him in this year rather than next. We are in year 2 of mCd's tenure Bowlen is likely giving the guy 4-5 years depending on lockout year. It would be hard to win starting a 1st time guy with no NFL experience in 2011 but if he has some game experience in 2010 it will only help him much like it did Cutler and get those rookie jitters out of the picture.

Rohirrim
08-14-2010, 03:21 PM
The season is lost? Damn. I didn't even know it had started yet.

I'll have to pay better attention.

Pseudofool
08-14-2010, 03:23 PM
The season is lost? Damn. I didn't even know it had started yet. Homer excuse.

Zoobie
08-14-2010, 04:02 PM
Tell the veterans like Bailey and Dawkins that we have no expectations for this year. Tell them we are playing for next season(which isn't guaranteed), see what they say. We have guys on this team who have played at a hall of fame level who would kill for a championship ring.

We are not unique, we aren't the only team with injuries. Every team in the league is having them right now, or could tomorrow, or week one. The playing field is plenty level as far as injuries are concerned in the grand scheme of things. Not to mention Dumervil is the only injury that could end someone's season. Clady will be back, Moreno, Moss(who cares?), all those guys will be back in the early part of the regular season at the latest.

HAT
08-14-2010, 04:23 PM
You start the season with the QB who gives you the best chance to win but once we're out of the play off race, so about week 8 or so you give Quinn or Tebow a chance if they have shown they are prepared.

This team will be no worse than 5-3 at the bye.

Broncoman13
08-14-2010, 04:30 PM
He should play when he's ready, whether the season is lost or not.

It's not a "myth" that throwing some kid in the fire might hurt him. This kid needs to learn the ropes through the controlled environment of practice with constant repetition and coaching. He does not need the pressure and the eyes of the whole city on him every Sunday when he doesn't know what he's doing and has huge, rabid LB's trying to tear him apart when he's extremely raw. That's not proper development.

The way the McDaniels brothers are doing it right now is exactly how it should be handled. You work him in practice, and then you work him even more after practice and he's willing to do it. You DON'T throw him into the fire when he's even more raw than most rookie QB's. He should play only in the packages he feels good about. It's irrelevant whether we're 2-6 or 6-2. It's about the long term.

Gotta agree with you SoCal.

uplink
08-14-2010, 04:32 PM
I'm glad the guy summarized at the end of that article, otherwise I would not have know what the hell the concluding points were.

NFLBRONCO
08-14-2010, 05:41 PM
If Orton and Quinn aren't playing very well I'd be cool giving Tebow a shot at that point.

Bronco Yoda
08-14-2010, 05:59 PM
Your point about mental makeup is well taken and I have no doubt that Tebow has the necessary makeup and intangibles in spades. As you're well aware, however, this is a kid that still has a long way to go in terms of getting the proper mechanics instilled into his muscle memory. This is a task that will take probably several more months. If you throw him out there before what he's being taught is sufficiently ingrained into his muscle memory, he will undoubtedly revert back to his previous style in the heat of the moment, especially when he doesn't know what he's doing and its all instinctual. If they can just work with him....in peace and relative control for a few more months, limiting his appearances to only those special packages and comfortable situations, they can make alot more progress towards fixing the technical elements of his game long term. I'd suggest that if he gets thrown in there before he's ready to do what's required in his sleep, then we are going to be throwing away alot of hard work that's been done towards re-training the muscle memory. He's not there yet in muscle memory, or in general. I'd submit that its a better result to wait it out, record be damned, than to throw him in there just so he can prove he has the mental makeup to deal with losing. We already know he has the emotional intelligence required. The intangible portion of his game is not in dispute, there's nothing more than needs to be proved there, so that rationale alone is insufficient to justify throwing him out there. JMO.

My exact thoughts. The last thing you want is Tebow running around for his life falling back on bad habits and stunting his discipline to throw first and run second.

We have Quinn who already has some experience. Let him earn his paycheck as a backup to come in if need be.

I veiw Tebow as a valuable project with lots of upside that you don't want to screw up.

Jay3
08-14-2010, 06:32 PM
It is a myth. Kyle Orton started as a rookie and he's a better quarterback for it. It accelerated his development.

Too many examples where it works. None that I know of where it "ruined" and otherwise good quarterback.

You may lose games. He may suck. But this idea that it ruins a quarterback if you put him in as a rookie is over.

bronco militia
08-14-2010, 06:36 PM
I would use Tim Tebow much like Florida did his freshman year, when Chris Leak was the starter.

Develop some short yardage and goal line packages he is comfortable with and see what he can do with those.

If he has success and it's working out, then Denver can use those packages more and more and slowly expand his role.

If we get to the last month of the season and we are out of the playoff race, I would have no problem letting Tebow start a few games, if the coaches think he is ready.

Better to do that and cut the learning curve down a little bit for 2011, if the plan is to start Tebow in 2011.

The best scenario would be for the Broncos to be in contention the last month of the year, with Tebow seeing extensive action in those short yardage and goal line packages, with the occasional surprise appearance here and there.

that made way too much sense

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-14-2010, 06:51 PM
It is a myth. Kyle Orton started as a rookie and he's a better quarterback for it. It accelerated his development.

Too many examples where it works. None that I know of where it "ruined" and otherwise good quarterback.

You may lose games. He may suck. But this idea that it ruins a quarterback if you put him in as a rookie is over.

I'm not sure that you can accurately say this. We'll never know how good David Carr or Joey Harrington could have been if they weren't thrown in right from the beginning. If they'd been handled differently, it's entirely possible that the repetition in practice and film study could have made them much better quarterbacks.

Ultimately, I don't think there's demonstrated harm in holding a guy out for a season. Seems to have worked pretty darn well for Carson Palmer.

Jay3
08-14-2010, 06:54 PM
Ultimately, I don't think there's demonstrated harm in holding a guy out for a season. Seems to have worked pretty darn well for Carson Palmer.

You switched the proposition to no "demonstrated harm in holding a guy out for a season."

Agreed, no harm.

Also doesn't harm him to put him in. If he can play, he'll get better with every rep.

MaloCS
08-14-2010, 11:37 PM
ANY rookie that has the required mental toughness should gain valuable experience by playing sooner rather then later. Will rookies make "rookie" mistakes? Sure, but so will a first year starter regardless of if they're in their first, second, third or fourth years.

The question that needs to be asked is, "Do the Broncos make a serious run for a Super Bowl title with Orton under center"? If the answer to that question is "no" then there is no reason to not get Tebow his experience now. We all know that Orton is not the answer to the Broncos quarterbacking needs. If he was then Quinn and Tebow would not be here. The future of this team is Tebow and the sooner he takes his lumps then the sooner the Broncos get back to the promised land. (no pun intended)

Any young player that folds under the pressure of starting as a rookie is a mental midget and should not be in the NFL. Period.

KipCorrington25
08-14-2010, 11:56 PM
This.

Last year's failed predictions prove to me that you DON'T know what Denver is going to do in the regular season until it gets here. Orton is growing comfortable in his role, and the Defense appears to be getting better. Why throw a rook QB in when your starter is performing exactly how you want him to?

My problem with McDaniels so far, as an OC, is that he doesn't call a good game. I see that changing some this year as Orton knows his system better, but with a rook or injured O-line McDaniels is going to have to prove he can work with what he's got and get enough points on the board.

As a HC, I think McDaniels is doing everything right. But he needs to prove to the fans that he knows what he's doing as an OC. Like it or not, Denver fans expect more out of their offense than their defense.

What? Off tackle, get stuffed, bubble screen right, bubble screen left, punt doesn't seem to be a genius at work????????

footstepsfrom#27
08-15-2010, 01:50 AM
Pushing Tebow into action before he's ready and behind a damaged offensive line featuring some stiff at the LT spot would be lunacy. Their motto should be, "No Clady, no Tebow". I agree with whoever said that Quinn can earn his check as the #2 if KO get's KO'd at some point, which I do believe will happen.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-15-2010, 07:59 AM
You switched the proposition to no "demonstrated harm in holding a guy out for a season."

Agreed, no harm.

Also doesn't harm him to put him in. If he can play, he'll get better with every rep.

And again, that's not necessarily true. We do not know how good David Carr or Joey Harrington would have been had they been held out longer. Should they necessarily "need" that extra time? No, but everyone is different, and every quarterback is different, and some guys need more time to get their **** together.

There are plenty of quarterbacks who were put in early, as you demonstrate, and do well. There are plenty of quarterbacks who were put in early, as I demonstrate, who failed. And there's no magic formula to see how one guy will react in that glare, under that pressure, right from the start. I think it's the safer play to keep a guy -- especially a guy as raw as Tebow is -- out a bit longer to let him grow into the position and the responsibility.

Rock Chalk
08-15-2010, 10:45 AM
I agree it's not a myth, and with your general sentiment that he should play when he's ready. Though I think not all rookies stand to be harmed by being thrown in the fire. I mean, we're talking mental make-up here. Ability to cope with losing, not get stuck in bad habits, etc. If there's a quarterbacks built to withstand the negative impact of playing too early, don't you think Tebow is the posterboy?

What makes you think Tebow has the ability to cope with losing? He lost like 4 times in College and cried after every loss. He was on a team loaded with NFL talent on both sides of the ball and coached by the very best coach in College football. He has never EVER had to deal with adversity like he will have to deal with in Denver. You have no idea how he is going to handle it.

Jay3
08-15-2010, 11:33 AM
The old philosophical post: "We can't speculate about him or draw any conclusions about him based on his college career, but I will go ahead and read and post in a thread that speculates about him at this time."

It is my mission in life to get NFL fans to stop wondering how things will go or expressing how they think things might go. The purpose of professional sports is to deliver information to you when it is ready. You just sit there and receive it. Receive it!! You know nothing until then!

strafen
08-15-2010, 11:42 AM
Pushing Tebow into action before he's ready and behind a damaged offensive line featuring some stiff at the LT spot would be lunacy. Their motto should be, "No Clady, no Tebow". I agree with whoever said that Quinn can earn his check as the #2 if KO get's KO'd at some point, which I do believe will happen.That doesn't make sense.
The LT, in this case Clady, his job is to protect the blindside of the QB. Tebow, being a left-handed QB, his blindside is the rightside of the OL, thus, the RT is responsible for his protection.
Without Clady, and with Orton at QB given his mobility or lack thereof, is to me more of a problem for Orton than it would be for Tebow at this point. Tebow is way more mobile than any of the QB's we have, not to mention he's extremely athletic as well...

Pseudofool
08-15-2010, 12:04 PM
What makes you think Tebow has the ability to cope with losing? He lost like 4 times in College and cried after every loss. He was on a team loaded with NFL talent on both sides of the ball and coached by the very best coach in College football. He has never EVER had to deal with adversity like he will have to deal with in Denver. You have no idea how he is going to handle it.Does one actually have to lose to retain the ability to deal with losing? He seemed to handle that Ole Miss loss in monument-worthy fashion. (If that's what you meant by crying, those tears sowed the bed to what would be an inspired national championship run). Look, I can't prove it to you, but are you really questioning Tebow's character, here? I'll simply reverse the question, what evidence do you have that Tebow can't deal with losing--I mean such a flaw would surely present itself in some other way.

BTW, your tone sucks. You don't need to patronize and condescend to make your point.

Pseudofool
08-15-2010, 12:07 PM
It is my mission in life to get NFL fans to stop wondering how things will go or expressing how they think things might go. If you are successful, there will be few here to witness it, as the Mane along with every NFL messageboard will cease to exist. This place wouldn't go without unfounded speculation. Evaluation is so boring, predicative analysis is where it's at.