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crazyhorse
08-08-2010, 02:32 AM
Im sorry Bronco fans. Thats ridiculous.

Ill admit, when I heard there was no Broncos in the Hall a couple years ago, I thought to mysef, how can that be? They have been to the SB as many if not more times as any other team in the NFL. Surely there has to be some hall of Famers in there somewhere. I'm no Bronco historian so I didn't know who it might be. But thought you dont do that well without a few good players along the way.

After Bronco fans started complaining, (I'll say 3 years) ago about no Broncos being in the Hall, all of a sudden there are several Broncos players on the ballot every year. As though the committee realized they should make an effort to get some Broncos in there. I agreed with Elway of course. The guy belongs in the Hall of Fame. Who's gonna argue that point? But I'm gonna tell ya, and it's not going to be popular, any RB that runs for no more than 6500 yards in his carreer dont belong. I dont care if he did it in 2 years.

I personally dont believe TD belongs either, But that is more debatable than Little. I dont think TD did it long enough.

Last night, 2 RBs went into the Hall. Emmitt Smith with over 18,000 yards and Floyd Little with 6500 yards. Reeeeeeediculous

Flame away.

footstepsfrom#27
08-08-2010, 03:12 AM
Good lord...you obviously never saw this dude play, or if you did you were to young to know what you were looking at.

Try this on for size; at the time of his retirement, Little, who led the NFL in rushing during his 6 year career, retired as the 7th leading rusher in NFL history up to that point, with all 6 above him already in the HOF. He did this behind a line that was mostly swiss cheese and nowhere in the same stratosphere compared to the mammoth maulers Emmit Smith ran behind. Watch the films. Some of Little's best runs were just getting back to the LOS. Had this guy played in Miami or Dallas, he'd have dazzled the NFL like few before him and the entire country would think he belongs in Canton. Without Little, the Broncos would have never stayed in Denver, and Elway would be in the HOF as something else...who knows what but it wouldn't have been in Denver. Little was the franchise, pure and simple.

Florida_Bronco
08-08-2010, 03:19 AM
Try this on for size; at the time of his retirement, Little, who led the NFL in rushing during his 6 year career, retired as the 7th leading rusher in NFL history up to that point, with all 6 above him already in the HOF.

Exactly. Little's accomplishments need to be put in historical context.

Killericon
08-08-2010, 03:43 AM
It's been said dozens of times, but it should be said again. He saved the Broncos.

Atwater His Ass
08-08-2010, 04:16 AM
0/10.

titan
08-08-2010, 05:27 AM
In this fantasy football stat crazed world of 2010 Floyd's stats do seem like they don't measure up to more recent greats like Emmitt Smith. But you have to look beyond the stats to see what a great player Floyd was.

If you want to look at numbers - how about these? Floyd played in a 14 game regular season era; the nfl has played 16 game regular seasons since 1978. Any modern running back plays in more games. Floyd never got the chance to play in any playoff games as most other hall of fame running backs have. That further reduces his yardage totals. Emmitt Smith had fullback Moose Johnson and other all pros blocking for him; Floyd had players like fullback Mike Kellogg in front of him - Floyd never had a pro bowl offensive lineman or fullback on his team.

1967 was the first year of the common NFL/AFL draft. Last night the fact was stated that Floyd was the broncos first #1 draft choice to sign with the team. Honestly, if the NFL/AFL still had separate drafts in 1967, Floyd wouldn't have ended up in Denver. The AFL probably would have arranged it so he played for the Jets (Floyd was popular in New York after his stellar career at Syracuse) - just like the AFL did a couple of years earlier in seeing to it that Joe Namath was drafted by the Jets to keep Namath away from the rival NFL. Put Floyd on the powerful Jets teams of the late 60's and we are not having this conversation - he would have been in the Hall long ago.

If you weren't fortunate to see Floyd play in person like I was, just look at the old highlight reels of his many great runs. He was such a multipurpose threat - not only a great runner but also a good receiver out of the backfield and a dangerous punt/kickoff returner. And he was such an inspirational leader. Though his bronco teams were far less talented than the Jets teams of the late 60's, Floyd led the Broncos to two upset victories over New York (handing the Jets one of their few losses in the Super Bowl year, and beating the Jets again the next year in Denver)

When Floyd was drafted by Denver he didn't complain. The running back taken one pick after him in the 1967 draft (Mel Farr of UCLA) had a different attitude. Farr had stated at the time he wouldn't sign with Denver if drafted by the Broncos.

I've posted this video clip before - the story of the game when Lou Saban "fired" Floyd. It sums up the never-give-up attitude and tremendous talent of Floyd Little.

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Tombstone RJ
08-08-2010, 06:14 AM
Im sorry Bronco fans. Thats ridiculous.

Ill admit, when I heard there was no Broncos in the Hall a couple years ago, I thought to mysef, how can that be? They have been to the SB as many if not more times as any other team in the NFL. Surely there has to be some hall of Famers in there somewhere. I'm no Bronco historian so I didn't know who it might be. But thought you dont do that well without a few good players along the way.

After Bronco fans started complaining, (I'll say 3 years) ago about no Broncos being in the Hall, all of a sudden there are several Broncos players on the ballot every year. As though the committee realized they should make an effort to get some Broncos in there. I agreed with Elway of course. The guy belongs in the Hall of Fame. Who's gonna argue that point? But I'm gonna tell ya, and it's not going to be popular, any RB that runs for no more than 6500 yards in his carreer dont belong. I dont care if he did it in 2 years.

I personally dont believe TD belongs either, But that is more debatable than Little. I dont think TD did it long enough.

Last night, 2 RBs went into the Hall. Emmitt Smith with over 18,000 yards and Floyd Little with 6500 yards. Reeeeeeediculous

Flame away.

I'm sure there are chiefs in the hof that played at the same time as Floyd Little. Are you saying they are more deserving than Floyd Little?

bronco militia
08-08-2010, 07:48 AM
I had no idea Peter King is a Chief's fan

crazyhorse
08-08-2010, 07:49 AM
I'm sure there are chiefs in the hof that played at the same time as Floyd Little. Are you saying they are more deserving than Floyd Little?

I didn't start the thread as a pissing contest between the Chiefs and Broncos. Im saying exactly what is written in the post. There is no way in Hell that Floyd Little belongs in the Hall of Fame. Forget the Chiefs, there are other Broncos more deserving than he is IMO. Let's put it that way.

To say that "he saved the franchise is by no means criteria for the Hall. It's more a statement of the state of the Broncos in that era. Mike Vick was "the franchise" for the Falcons. No way he's a HOFer either.

I understand that in those days there were 14 game seasons. But the guy averaged under 4 yards a carry for his carreer. The most catches he had in a season was 40 or 41 and I dont think he broke 30 after that. His carries were low, his yards were low, his catches were low as an "all purpose threat", he had 2 TDs in his whole carreer as a KR and a PR and he had under 6500 yards rushing in 9 years playing in the NFL.

The Hall is for the best of all time. Im not gonna say that he's the only one in there that doesn't belong. But he's one of them.

I realize I'm in the wrong place for a realistic debate here on this topic. But if you guys want to think about this for a second, look at all the other Bronco players that you think should be in the Hall of Fame. Is this really the next best guy?

I mean Priest Holmes blows this dude out of the water in every category and did it longer and better. Does he belong in the HOF? Hell no. The HOF is for the best that ever played the game. Not to be watered down by names like Floyd Little. I mean, the guy had 1-1000 yard season in his entire NFL stint. 5 of his 9 seasons he gained less that 750 yards a year. Thats just over 50 yards a game. 4 of those years he averaged under 40 yards per game.

Im sure his numbers were ranked where they were because of his longevity and not the quality of his play. I mean, 50+ yards a game only twice in a 9 year carreer? C'mon people.

elsid13
08-08-2010, 08:04 AM
When talk about HOF I always think numbers don't mean anything, because there are to many things that need be factored in. The central question in my mind is always the same "Did that player dominate his era when compared to his peers". That why I believe Bettis shouldn't get in and players like TD should. Bettis had long career and good numbers, but I would never consider him the best running back of his time in the league. For Little he was a player that argument could be made that he was the standard in late 60s and early 70s.

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 08:12 AM
First of all, crazyhorse, it's no-class to start this thread today. But, I've come to expect that from you. So, up your's.

Second, not only are you no-class, you're ignorant. No-class is a factor of your upbringing and probably incorrectable, a life-long affliction. Being ignorant is a fault all your own. There's plenty of resources out there you could have used to mitigate your ignorance on this subject, but instead you decided to pop off from a position of ignorance.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LittFl00.htm

6405 rushing yds is still 62nd all time. Do you understand that, does it put it into perspective?

1661 rushing attempts is still 55th all time. Get it?

All purpose yds, 69th all time.

Total touches, 47th all time.

And, if you look at his rankings for the offensive and return categories during his playing years he was usually in the top five, and never out of the top ten. That's a real big deal to people that know football.

gyldenlove
08-08-2010, 08:15 AM
As long as people like Doak Walker and Paul Hornung are in, then Little deserves to be there as well, he played in a time where the medical standards were far below what they are today and in a time when defense was favoured much much more than it is today.

Homer Simpson
08-08-2010, 08:17 AM
Wait, weren't you the Chiefs fan who got a sticky on here by the head mod and many Broncos fans were kind to you? And now you are trolling the message board? Shame on you.

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 08:28 AM
I didn't start the thread as a pissing contest . . . .

Again, it's no-class to bring this up today.

And not only was Floyd Little the best to play the game in his era, his stats still stack up well compared to all those that have played. He deserves to be in the HOF, period.

This is why the "old-timers" part of the HOF induction committee was formed, so the old-timers that added so much to the modern NFL don't slip through the cracks.

finkus55
08-08-2010, 08:46 AM
You seem to be keen on comparing the 1990's-2000's to 1960's-1970's(comparing Emmitt to Floyd), but those were two very different era's of football. Floyd led the league in rushing from 1968-1973, averaging probably around 900 yards for the season(read that to yourself again, LED THE LEAGUE WITH 900 yards rushing). Floyd averaged about 180 attempts per season, Emmitt about 300 per season. If Floyd would've gotten the attempts and played in a different era of football, you bet your ass he would've had similar or better stats than Emmitt. You're just simply not comparing apples to apples here.

If we use your thought process, then the same thing could be said for Len Dawson. He shouldn't be in the HOF because he only has 28,711 passing yards, right below Rich Gannon.

Do yourself a favor a read this article. Obviously in your world of stats, Don Hutson shouldn't even sniff the HOF because of his weak 488 receptions.....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/kerry_byrne/08/06/halloffame/index.html?eref=sihp

footstepsfrom#27
08-08-2010, 08:54 AM
I didn't start the thread as a pissing contest between the Chiefs and Broncos. Im saying exactly what is written in the post. There is no way in Hell that Floyd Little belongs in the Hall of Fame. Forget the Chiefs, there are other Broncos more deserving than he is IMO. Let's put it that way.

To say that "he saved the franchise is by no means criteria for the Hall. It's more a statement of the state of the Broncos in that era. Mike Vick was "the franchise" for the Falcons. No way he's a HOFer either.

I understand that in those days there were 14 game seasons. But the guy averaged under 4 yards a carry for his carreer. The most catches he had in a season was 40 or 41 and I dont think he broke 30 after that. His carries were low, his yards were low, his catches were low as an "all purpose threat", he had 2 TDs in his whole carreer as a KR and a PR and he had under 6500 yards rushing in 9 years playing in the NFL.

The Hall is for the best of all time. Im not gonna say that he's the only one in there that doesn't belong. But he's one of them.

I realize I'm in the wrong place for a realistic debate here on this topic. But if you guys want to think about this for a second, look at all the other Bronco players that you think should be in the Hall of Fame. Is this really the next best guy?

I mean Priest Holmes blows this dude out of the water in every category and did it longer and better. Does he belong in the HOF? Hell no. The HOF is for the best that ever played the game. Not to be watered down by names like Floyd Little. I mean, the guy had 1-1000 yard season in his entire NFL stint. 5 of his 9 seasons he gained less that 750 yards a year. Thats just over 50 yards a game. 4 of those years he averaged under 40 yards per game.

Im sure his numbers were ranked where they were because of his longevity and not the quality of his play. I mean, 50+ yards a game only twice in a 9 year carreer? C'mon people.
This is what happens when you sell out to the stat gods...absurdity.

Your arguments cannot cancel out the fact that he led the entire NFL in rushing for 6 years and retired with only 6 players in the NFL's 50+ years ahead of him on the all time rushing list. How do you keep a guy out of the HOF when only 6 backs before him rushed for more yardage and all of them are in the Hall?...let alone that he did this on one of the NFL's worst teams? You can't.

You're lacking in historical perspective about the changes in the game. Stats today are hugely inflated due to NFL rule changes that favor the offensive side of the ball. Go look at other HOF players stats in his era...Lynn Swann's receiving stats for example. He played 9 years just like Little, and Swann averaged 606 yards receiving per year on a measly (by today's standards) 336 career receptions. Those numbers wouldn't even get him a starting job on any team in the league today.

Oh yeah, guess who else shouldn't be in there by your logic...Len Dawson.

crazyhorse
08-08-2010, 08:58 AM
When talk about HOF I always think numbers don't mean anything, because there are to many things that need be factored in. The central question in my mind is always the same "Did that player dominate his era when compared to his peers". That why I believe Bettis shouldn't get in and players like TD should. Bettis had long career and good numbers, but I would never consider him the best running back of his time in the league. For Little he was a player that argument could be made that he was the standard in late 60s and early 70s.


40 yards a game the standard? TD over Bettis? You're nuts.

No offense.

Pony Boy
08-08-2010, 09:00 AM
Good lord...you obviously never saw this dude play, or if you did you were to young to know what you were looking at.

Try this on for size; at the time of his retirement, Little, who led the NFL in rushing during his 6 year career, retired as the 7th leading rusher in NFL history up to that point, with all 6 above him already in the HOF. He did this behind a line that was mostly swiss cheese and nowhere in the same stratosphere compared to the mammoth maulers Emmit Smith ran behind. Watch the films. Some of Little's best runs were just getting back to the LOS. Had this guy played in Miami or Dallas, he'd have dazzled the NFL like few before him and the entire country would think he belongs in Canton. Without Little, the Broncos would have never stayed in Denver, and Elway would be in the HOF as something else...who knows what but it wouldn't have been in Denver. Little was the franchise, pure and simple.

Well said.....also I can remember a fake pitch to Floyd took half the defence with him.

Homer Simpson
08-08-2010, 09:11 AM
http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=84951

Thank you for lifting me up when I was at my lowest. You dont know what you did. But you are heros in my book.
Dan

And now you are TROLLING the message board. Never has someone fallen so far in my estimation.

SouthStndJunkie
08-08-2010, 09:26 AM
You don't gauge guys like Floyd Little with today's NFL statistics.

You gauge guys like him with his peers and within the historical context of the game in that era.

When you do that, you realize he belongs in the Hall of Fame....as footstepsfrom#27 succinctly points out.

I'm kind of surprised that you aren't able to comprehend that.

ZachKC
08-08-2010, 09:27 AM
http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=84951



And now you are TROLLING the message board. Never has someone fallen so far in my estimation.

You're being a drama queen.

Durango
08-08-2010, 09:27 AM
Im sorry Bronco fans. Thats ridiculous.

Ill admit, when I heard there was no Broncos in the Hall a couple years ago, I thought to mysef, how can that be? They have been to the SB as many if not more times as any other team in the NFL. Surely there has to be some hall of Famers in there somewhere. I'm no Bronco historian so I didn't know who it might be. But thought you dont do that well without a few good players along the way.

After Bronco fans started complaining, (I'll say 3 years) ago about no Broncos being in the Hall, all of a sudden there are several Broncos players on the ballot every year. As though the committee realized they should make an effort to get some Broncos in there. I agreed with Elway of course. The guy belongs in the Hall of Fame. Who's gonna argue that point? But I'm gonna tell ya, and it's not going to be popular, any RB that runs for no more than 6500 yards in his carreer dont belong. I dont care if he did it in 2 years.

I personally dont believe TD belongs either, But that is more debatable than Little. I dont think TD did it long enough.

Last night, 2 RBs went into the Hall. Emmitt Smith with over 18,000 yards and Floyd Little with 6500 yards. Reeeeeeediculous

Flame away.

What a complete dick. Raiders fan? Who cares. Just nod your head in reverence, jackoff, because there's not a single thing you can do about it.

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 09:52 AM
http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=84951



And now you are TROLLING the message board. Never has someone fallen so far in my estimation.

No kidding. We have one guy only, crazyhorse, only one guy from our rival fans no-class enough to bag on Floyd Little the day after his HOF induction ceremony. And he starts a thread about it.

I would never do something like this on a Chief board, and I hope no Bronco fan ever stoops that low to do so. Hell, crazyhorse even stooped so low as to post in the HOF induction thread Floyd Little didn't deserve to be in the HOF.

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 09:55 AM
You're being a drama queen.

Do you support crazyhorse?

gunns
08-08-2010, 09:57 AM
As stated above, he was the franchise and he led in rushing a lot of years. If you are in love with stats (which never tell the whole story) beginning in 70, after merger, he beat out Czonka most years in overall stats, Leroy Kelly, Mercury Morris, Franco Harris. He tied with OJ Simpson for most rushing TD's the year OJ went over 2000. He had his year where he finished with tops in most yards, most attempts, etc. It's a matter of the era, you cannot compare it to the game now. That's why he should have been inducted long ago.

And if I might be a bit pissy, he belongs there more than Thomas.

ZachKC
08-08-2010, 09:59 AM
Do you support crazyhorse?

I don't. I have never cared for the guy. But this whole "omg we posted nice things about you, so you owe us" schtick is silly as well. I personally wouldn't make this thread today but it isn't really trolling. I mean...he has a take even if it is universally disliked.

ColoradoDarin
08-08-2010, 09:59 AM
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Floyd's in and no one can take him out. I don't care about your trolling. I repeat, Floyd Little IS a member of the pro-football Hall of Fame.

ZachKC
08-08-2010, 10:00 AM
Floyd's in and no one can take him out. I don't care about your trolling. I repeat, Floyd Little IS a member of the pro-football Hall of Fame.

Well, maybe this can be a good thing. Maybe we won't have to hear about how you guys thing the HOF is a total sham and doesn't mean anything.

RhymesayersDU
08-08-2010, 10:03 AM
I'm unsure why people are getting so upset/taking this thread so personally.

I'm not saying crazyhorse is right. But what I am saying is, considering how long it took Floyd to get inducted, you guys needed to expect there to be a debate.

ZachKC
08-08-2010, 10:05 AM
I'm unsure why people are getting so upset/taking this thread so personally.

I'm not saying crazyhorse is right. But what I am saying is, considering how long it took Floyd to get inducted, you guys needed to expect there to be a debate.

Exactly, it isn't an unreasonable take.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-08-2010, 10:18 AM
Exactly, it isn't an unreasonable take.

I think the problem most people have with Crazyhorse's dog**** thread is that it comes the morning after Little's induction. Just a completely classless thing to do on a day that is reserved here for celebrating the accomplishments of the man.

Not unreasonable? You're right. Completely reasonable to compare the stats of Emmit Smith with Floyd Little, who never had a pro bowl lineman or fullback, never played in a playoff game (to pad his season stats), etc. Seems completely reasonable to me!

Hilarious!

ColoradoDarin
08-08-2010, 10:21 AM
Well, maybe this can be a good thing. Maybe we won't have to hear about how you guys thing the HOF is a total sham and doesn't mean anything.

We've been to 6 title games and have 2.5 Hall of Famers.

Just because Floyd made it doesn't mean that there isn't still a major lack of Bronco representation in the Hall. Gradishar, Mecklenburg, Atwater, Dennis Smith, Sharpe (who will be in next year I believe) should all be in there. TD should be in just for his post season performances. Rod Smith unfortunately didn't play for the Cowboys, so his comparable Irvin stats will be held against him, and I doubt he makes it in.

So yeah, just because they finally corrected one long overdue entry doesn't mean they can overlook the rest.

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 10:29 AM
I don't. I have never cared for the guy. But this whole "omg we posted nice things about you, so you owe us" schtick is silly as well. I personally wouldn't make this thread today but it isn't really trolling. I mean...he has a take even if it is universally disliked.

Well, I think the post was more in the vein of show some class rather than you owe us. Like you said, you wouldn't have made this thread today . . . .

gunns
08-08-2010, 10:31 AM
I don't. I have never cared for the guy. But this whole "omg we posted nice things about you, so you owe us" schtick is silly as well. I personally wouldn't make this thread today but it isn't really trolling. I mean...he has a take even if it is universally disliked.

A take? "6500 yards, that's ridiculous"? Comparing a player from the late 60's, early 70's to one in the 90's? Read my stats, which I don't like, on Little and there would be a take on half the guys in the HOF.

Greybeard
08-08-2010, 10:44 AM
Im sorry Bronco fans. Thats ridiculous.

Ill admit, when I heard there was no Broncos in the Hall a couple years ago, I thought to mysef, how can that be? They have been to the SB as many if not more times as any other team in the NFL. Surely there has to be some hall of Famers in there somewhere. I'm no Bronco historian so I didn't know who it might be. But thought you dont do that well without a few good players along the way.

After Bronco fans started complaining, (I'll say 3 years) ago about no Broncos being in the Hall, all of a sudden there are several Broncos players on the ballot every year. As though the committee realized they should make an effort to get some Broncos in there. I agreed with Elway of course. The guy belongs in the Hall of Fame. Who's gonna argue that point? But I'm gonna tell ya, and it's not going to be popular, any RB that runs for no more than 6500 yards in his carreer dont belong. I dont care if he did it in 2 years.

I personally dont believe TD belongs either, But that is more debatable than Little. I dont think TD did it long enough.

Last night, 2 RBs went into the Hall. Emmitt Smith with over 18,000 yards and Floyd Little with 6500 yards. Reeeeeeediculous

Flame away.

Did you see Little play? I did.

He belongs . . .

-----

DivineBronco
08-08-2010, 10:48 AM
can't believe a sticky was wasted on this guy....yikes

ZachKC
08-08-2010, 11:10 AM
A take? "6500 yards, that's ridiculous"? Comparing a player from the late 60's, early 70's to one in the 90's? Read my stats, which I don't like, on Little and there would be a take on half the guys in the HOF.

I honestly don't care. After looking him over and seeing some of his play I don't have qualms with him being in the hall. But, if he was "that" automatic he would have been in a long time ago. My main point is....reasonable people could see his induction as debatable. Thats all.

ZachKC
08-08-2010, 11:11 AM
can't believe a sticky was wasted on this guy....yikes

lol.

crazyhorse
08-08-2010, 11:43 AM
And here we go with personal insults.

I didnt bag on anyone. You have your opinion, I have mine. Im open for debate. Thats why I started a thread.

Could it be that some might take football a little too serious?

I mean, if we have to dredge up a terminal illness thread, attack my charactor and make claims about what kind of man I am over a simple opinion........maybe it's time to focus on other things.

In the end you show how ugly you are while pointing your finger at me.

We all have choices of how we carry ourselves. You can debate the issue with respect and reason, or you can fly off the handle and act like an a-hole.

I chose to debate the issue with respect on this forum. No attacks on the man or his charactor. Those attacking my charactor are in no position to point fingers. Especially those using my illness as leverage to witch hunt.

I will conceed the point. I refuse to lower myself to your level. Its just football for pete sake.

For those that could see where I was coming from and treated me with respect, I appreciate that. When its all said and done, he's in the Hall regardless what I think. A lot of people think Sayers shouldn't be in the HOF. Even for those that cant see where I am coming from but chose to act like grown men and women, thanks.

I dont post here much any more for this very reason. Since I've quit trolling, there is little to be said. When you do try to debate an issue, this is what happens. If it were the old days, I would just stay and pull strings on some of these a-holes for an hour or two. But, its just not much fun anymore.

My friends here know who they are. For the rest of you, take care.

DenverBound
08-08-2010, 11:58 AM
And here we go with personal insults.

I didnt bag on anyone. You have your opinion, I have mine. Im open for debate. Thats why I started a thread.

Could it be that some might take football a little too serious?

I mean, if we have to dredge up a terminal illness thread, attack my charactor and make claims about what kind of man I am over a simple opinion........maybe it's time to focus on other things.

In the end you show how ugly you are while pointing your finger at me.

We all have choices of how we carry ourselves. You can debate the issue with respect and reason, or you can fly off the handle and act like an a-hole.

I chose to debate the issue with respect on this forum. No attacks on the man or his charactor. Those attacking my charactor are in no position to point fingers. Especially those using my illness as leverage to witch hunt.

I will conceed the point. I refuse to lower myself to your level. Its just football for pete sake.

For those that could see where I was coming from and treated me with respect, I appreciate that. When its all said and done, he's in the Hall regardless what I think. A lot of people think Sayers shouldn't be in the HOF. Even for those that cant see where I am coming from but chose to act like grown men and women, thanks.

I dont post here much any more for this very reason. Since I've quit trolling, there is little to be said. When you do try to debate an issue, this is what happens. If it were the old days, I would just stay and pull strings on some of these a-holes for an hour or two. But, its just not much fun anymore.

My friends here know who they are. For the rest of you, take care.

Pussy.

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 12:00 PM
And here we go with personal insults.

I didnt bag on anyone. You have your opinion, I have mine. Im open for debate. Thats why I started a thread.

Could it be that some might take football a little too serious?

I mean, if we have to dredge up a terminal illness thread, attack my charactor and make claims about what kind of man I am over a simple opinion........maybe it's time to focus on other things.

In the end you show how ugly you are while pointing your finger at me.

We all have choices of how we carry ourselves. You can debate the issue with respect and reason, or you can fly off the handle and act like an a-hole.

I chose to debate the issue with respect on this forum. No attacks on the man or his charactor. Those attacking my charactor are in no position to point fingers. Especially those using my illness as leverage to witch hunt.

I will conceed the point. I refuse to lower myself to your level. Its just football for pete sake.

For those that could see where I was coming from and treated me with respect, I appreciate that. When its all said and done, he's in the Hall regardless what I think. A lot of people think Sayers shouldn't be in the HOF. Even for those that cant see where I am coming from but chose to act like grown men and women, thanks.

I dont post here much any more for this very reason. Since I've quit trolling, there is little to be said. When you do try to debate an issue, this is what happens. If it were the old days, I would just stay and pull strings on some of these a-holes for an hour or two. But, its just not much fun anymore.

My friends here know who they are. For the rest of you, take care.

Up your's. Get lost and don't find your way back.

Killericon
08-08-2010, 12:10 PM
This is ****ing pathetic, guys. Seriously. Just shameful.

R8R H8R
08-08-2010, 12:31 PM
Gale Sayers
Att Yds avg. TD's
991 4,956 5.0 39

'nuff said.

Homer Simpson
08-08-2010, 12:34 PM
Gale Sayers
Att Yds avg. TD's
991 4,956 5.0 39

'nuff said.

I'm sure to crazyhorse he doesn't deserve it either.

Champagne Powder
08-08-2010, 01:03 PM
Little was similar in a way to Herschel Walker. Going back to his collegiate days, Little was always universally recognized as a fine football player (Heisman Trophy finalist, three-time 1st team All-American), but his pro achievements weren't as good as they should have been.

Despite being on some of the AFL/AFC's worst teams, he still led the league in 11 categories as various points in his career. He did enough to be in the HOF discussion and Jeff Legwold did a hell of a job to sell his case to the voters.

Maximus
08-08-2010, 01:18 PM
This place has sunk to the lowest level of homerism that I have seen anywhere. Some people are just retarded. Since when does a person's illness dictate their freedom to have an open discussion about a sporting event. I guess crazyhorse should just bend over and suck ass just because bronco fans decided to show compassion during his recovery?

Maximus
08-08-2010, 01:38 PM
I saw Terrell Davis mentioned as a HOF candidate. IMO Davis is less of a candidate if we go by the argument of the era that he played in. If we use that as the premise, Davis would have to be judged in the Era of his peers which include Emmit Smith & Barry Sanders who happen to be HOF'ers and 1 and 2 in all time yardage in NFL history!

Let's not forget Marshall Faulk, Eddie George and Curtis Martin all have longer careers and were all dominant.

Jason7730
08-08-2010, 01:45 PM
I saw Terrell Davis mentioned as a HOF candidate. IMO Davis is less of a candidate if we go by the argument of the era that he played in. If we use that as the premise, Davis would have to be judged in the Era of his peers which include Emmit Smith & Barry Sanders who happen to be HOF'ers and 1 and 2 in all time yardage in NFL history!

Let's not forget Marshall Faulk, Eddie George and Curtis Martin all have longer careers and were all dominant.

No running back, from any era, played better in the post season than TD. Period. They say big players play big in the biggest games...well there you go....moron:wave:
Oh, and real classy move with the timing of the start of this thread crazyhorse..

Maximus
08-08-2010, 01:48 PM
No running back, from any era, played better in the post season than TD. Period. They say big players play big in the biggest games...well there you go....moron:wave:

How stupid are you... Emmitt Smith is on the list!

TheReverend
08-08-2010, 01:51 PM
And here we go with personal insults.

I didnt bag on anyone. You have your opinion, I have mine. Im open for debate. Thats why I started a thread.

Could it be that some might take football a little too serious?

I mean, if we have to dredge up a terminal illness thread, attack my charactor and make claims about what kind of man I am over a simple opinion........maybe it's time to focus on other things.

In the end you show how ugly you are while pointing your finger at me.

We all have choices of how we carry ourselves. You can debate the issue with respect and reason, or you can fly off the handle and act like an a-hole.

I chose to debate the issue with respect on this forum. No attacks on the man or his charactor. Those attacking my charactor are in no position to point fingers. Especially those using my illness as leverage to witch hunt.

I will conceed the point. I refuse to lower myself to your level. Its just football for pete sake.

For those that could see where I was coming from and treated me with respect, I appreciate that. When its all said and done, he's in the Hall regardless what I think. A lot of people think Sayers shouldn't be in the HOF. Even for those that cant see where I am coming from but chose to act like grown men and women, thanks.

I dont post here much any more for this very reason. Since I've quit trolling, there is little to be said. When you do try to debate an issue, this is what happens. If it were the old days, I would just stay and pull strings on some of these a-holes for an hour or two. But, its just not much fun anymore.

My friends here know who they are. For the rest of you, take care.

You're a scumbag. Plain and simple. You even went as far to prey on people's sympathies.

Jason in LA
08-08-2010, 02:00 PM
I'd say that Footsteps' point killed Crazyhorse's argument, but Crazyhorse has pretty much ignored Footsteps' point. Crazyhorse has replied to other people's posts, but not the one that really makes his argument look silly.

You can't compare stats from one era to another. It just doesn't work. If Little is to be questioned, then we can question a lot of guys who played during his era and before and are in the HOF. Players today are putting up much greater numbers, but must of them won't get in and will no be considered as great as players who they put up better number than.

Players are compared to other players from their era. The fact that he was the 7th all time leading rusher when he retired shows that he was a great player.

RhymesayersDU
08-08-2010, 02:03 PM
Oh, and real classy move with the timing of the start of this thread crazyhorse..

Sigh.

I hate this. I hate that I have to be the one to defend a guy I actually disagree with. Just let the record show I disagree with the content of crazy's initial post.

With that said. This comment about the "timing" of the thread is ridiculous. And I'm quoting jbs here because he was the last person to say it, although I know numerous others did as well.

I mean honestly, when else should he have started it? Think about it. Do we even think about the HOF any other time of year than right now? The answer is no. We pay attention to Canton for about a week each year. Should he really have started this thread 6 months from now? And even if he did, would the result have been any different? The answer, again, is no.

You guys act as if he actually went to Canton and disrupted the event. He didn't. Floyd had his day. Contrary to popular belief, Floyd will not be personally affected by this thread. Everybody just needs to calm down.

Best line of this thread: "We wasted a sticky on you!" Epic unintentional comedy. As if we're only allowed a certain number of stickies. As if the sticky is an endangered species or something. Classic.

Champagne Powder
08-08-2010, 02:05 PM
Let's not forget Marshall Faulk, Eddie George and Curtis Martin all have longer careers and were all dominant.

I will give you Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk and even Curtis Martin, but not Eddie George.

George was good, but hardly dominant. The only category he ever led the NFL in was carries in 2000. He also owns a 3.6 yards per carry for his career, which is not HOF worthy.

TD led the NFL in six different categories, was the 2008 NFL MVP and 2006 Offensive POY. I am not even mentioning his postseason accolades.

TD's peak value is more impressive than George's overall contributions. George will be lucky to be a HOF finalist.

broncogary
08-08-2010, 02:07 PM
Sigh.

I hate this. I hate that I have to be the one to defend a guy I actually disagree with. Just let the record show I disagree with the content of crazy's initial post.

With that said. This comment about the "timing" of the thread is ridiculous. And I'm quoting jbs here because he was the last person to say it, although I know numerous others did as well.

I mean honestly, when else should he have started it? Think about it. Do we even think about the HOF any other time of year than right now? The answer is no. We pay attention to Canton for about a week each year. Should he really have started this thread 6 months from now? And even if he did, would the result have been any different? The answer, again, is no.

You guys act as if he actually went to Canton and disrupted the event. He didn't. Floyd had his day. Contrary to popular belief, Floyd will not be personally affected by this thread. Everybody just needs to calm down.

Best line of this thread: "We wasted a sticky on you!" Epic unintentional comedy. As if we're only allowed a certain number of stickies. As if the sticky is an endangered species or something. Classic.

At least he was smart enough not to start it in Floyd's birthday thread. :sunshine:

Champagne Powder
08-08-2010, 02:14 PM
The fact that he was the 7th all time leading rusher when he retired shows that he was a great player.

I'm not sure that 7th leading rusher stat is as convincing as every one thinks.

The 8th and 9th all-time leading rushers at the time aren't in the HOF so one could argue where is the cutoff?

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 02:16 PM
Sigh.

I hate this. I hate that I have to be the one to defend a guy I actually disagree with. Just let the record show I disagree with the content of crazy's initial post.

With that said. This comment about the "timing" of the thread is ridiculous. And I'm quoting jbs here because he was the last person to say it, although I know numerous others did as well.

I mean honestly, when else should he have started it? Think about it. Do we even think about the HOF any other time of year than right now? The answer is no. We pay attention to Canton for about a week each year. Should he really have started this thread 6 months from now? And even if he did, would the result have been any different? The answer, again, is no.

You guys act as if he actually went to Canton and disrupted the event. He didn't. Floyd had his day. Contrary to popular belief, Floyd will not be personally affected by this thread. Everybody just needs to calm down.

Best line of this thread: "We wasted a sticky on you!" Epic unintentional comedy. As if we're only allowed a certain number of stickies. As if the sticky is an endangered species or something. Classic.

Baloney. I would never be so no-class to start a thread like this on a Chief board the day after an HOF induction. Hard to believe you're defending him twice on this thread.

Atwater His Ass
08-08-2010, 02:18 PM
I saw Terrell Davis mentioned as a HOF candidate. IMO Davis is less of a candidate if we go by the argument of the era that he played in. If we use that as the premise, Davis would have to be judged in the Era of his peers which include Emmit Smith & Barry Sanders who happen to be HOF'ers and 1 and 2 in all time yardage in NFL history!

Let's not forget Marshall Faulk, Eddie George and Curtis Martin all have longer careers and were all dominant.

Curtis Martin is not a HoFamer. He's an average player that was fortunate enough never to suffer serious injury. Longevity != greatness.

A guy like TD was by far the best back while he was playing, which imo, is step 1 to determining if a guy is HoF worthy. Martin and George (lol?) were never in that category or really even close to it.

The debate can go all day about TD being in the HoF or not and it's a legitamte discussion. However, bringing up guys like you posted above is absurd, considering the complete dominance TD had over the NFL in his short career.

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 02:19 PM
I'm not sure that 7th leading rusher stat is as convincing as every one thinks.

The 8th and 9th all-time leading rushers at the time aren't in the HOF so one could argue where is the cutoff?

Who are they?

Atwater His Ass
08-08-2010, 02:21 PM
I'm not sure that 7th leading rusher stat is as convincing as every one thinks.

The 8th and 9th all-time leading rushers at the time aren't in the HOF so one could argue where is the cutoff?

It's only one aspect of the entire picture.

Archer81
08-08-2010, 02:24 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/floydlittle/careerstats?id=LIT355962

Floyd Little's history of work while in the NFL. 12,000 APY. Yeah...terrible HOF'er...

:Broncos:

RhymesayersDU
08-08-2010, 02:25 PM
Baloney. I would never be so no-class to start a thread like this on a Chief board the day after an HOF induction. Hard to believe you're defending him twice on this thread.

Why not? That's the fun of the Hall Of Fame. That's the fun of message boards in general. We get to discuss, banter, etc. The HOF voters do the same thing we're doing right now. They debate and discuss players' merits.

Homer Simpson
08-08-2010, 02:36 PM
Sigh.

I hate this. I hate that I have to be the one to defend a guy I actually disagree with. Just let the record show I disagree with the content of crazy's initial post.

With that said. This comment about the "timing" of the thread is ridiculous. And I'm quoting jbs here because he was the last person to say it, although I know numerous others did as well.

I mean honestly, when else should he have started it? Think about it. Do we even think about the HOF any other time of year than right now? The answer is no. We pay attention to Canton for about a week each year. Should he really have started this thread 6 months from now? And even if he did, would the result have been any different? The answer, again, is no.

You guys act as if he actually went to Canton and disrupted the event. He didn't. Floyd had his day. Contrary to popular belief, Floyd will not be personally affected by this thread. Everybody just needs to calm down.

Best line of this thread: "We wasted a sticky on you!" Epic unintentional comedy. As if we're only allowed a certain number of stickies. As if the sticky is an endangered species or something. Classic.

I can see your argument, but I think I would expect a thread bashing Floyd Little from a troll and think crazyhorse made himself part of this community and thus shouldn't be trolling.

The argument is stupid. Floyd Little was a huge part of keeping the Broncos here and they are the main sporting identity of Denver, no matter how well the other franchises are doing. The Broncos will ALWAYS be Denver, unlike the Rams, Raiders, Vikings etc. Plus his play in the late 60's and early 70's speaks for itself.

And his speech was awesome. :strong:

Champagne Powder
08-08-2010, 02:50 PM
Who are they?

Don Perkins and Ken Willard.

Champagne Powder
08-08-2010, 02:53 PM
It's only one aspect of the entire picture.

No doubt.

The reason why Floyd Little got in is he garnered a lot of respect while he played football. Every one knew he was a stud right when he entered the league. He was a game changer.

Despite being on a poor team, he still led the NFL in rushing yards, TDs, rushing average, yards from scrimmage, yards per game twice and all-purpose yards on two occasions. He stood out despite his dire situation.

crazyhorse
08-08-2010, 03:03 PM
I'd say that Footsteps' point killed Crazyhorse's argument, but Crazyhorse has pretty much ignored Footsteps' point. Crazyhorse has replied to other people's posts, but not the one that really makes his argument look silly.

You can't compare stats from one era to another. It just doesn't work. If Little is to be questioned, then we can question a lot of guys who played during his era and before and are in the HOF. Players today are putting up much greater numbers, but must of them won't get in and will no be considered as great as players who they put up better number than.

Players are compared to other players from their era. The fact that he was the 7th all time leading rusher when he retired shows that he was a great player.

Who says I ignored it?

The arguement could be that he was durable during an era where defenses keyed on the RB becaue there was much less passing offense back then. The nuances of football dont escape me. I understood where he was coming from and it was valid to a degree. But it wasn't the complete explanation for why he should be in.

Another arguement I didn't ignore was that I didn't get to see him play. This is probably the best arguement. Most of us didn't.

Someone even threw up Sayers stats. But Sayers carreer was cut short due to injuries. He had a better yard per carry, yards per game and just a better over all performance albiet in a shortened carreer. sayers was a better runner than Little not in my opinion, but in the opinion of anyone who saw them play that isn't a Bronco fan.

7th best in an era does not qualify someone for the Hall IMO. If you took the 7th best RB of this era would you want to put him in the HOF? If you put the 7th best WR, the 7th LBer, the 7th Safety then suddenlt the HOF becomes watered down.

Like I said and has been said to me, he's in. I'm certainly not going to show up and protest his induction for christ sake. I just thought it was debateable.

My starting this thread was not a "lack of class', it was a ignorant notion that people here can get past hating someone for an opinion and just talk like human beings. That was my ignorance. So I will settle for those that can handle it and speak with them, and disregard the rest.

I will say that I am disappointed that some of my previous posts like the terminal illness thread, and various other thank you threads are thrown up in my face at the 1st opportunity for some. The reverend even says I played him. Well, I cant fix whats wrong with him. But I can say, that those threads and posts were directed at the people who deserve that designation. The rest of you using them against me every chance you get, well, they dont include you or are they directed at you. You didn't earn that kind of respect from me. the people who those posts are directed at earned mention and I still hold them in the highest reguard.

Reverend, all I can say buddy is that I am sorry for becoming terminally ill in an attempt to take advantage of you. If its any consolation, it hasn't been worth it. God bless you brother.

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 03:05 PM
I can see your argument, but I think I would expect a thread bashing Floyd Little from a troll and think crazyhorse made himself part of this community and thus shouldn't be trolling.

The argument is stupid. Floyd Little was a huge part of keeping the Broncos here and they are the main sporting identity of Denver, no matter how well the other franchises are doing. The Broncos will ALWAYS be Denver, unlike the Rams, Raiders, Vikings etc. Plus his play in the late 60's and early 70's speaks for itself.

And his speech was awesome. :strong:

There are only 2 original AFL franchises, actually. Buffalo Bills, Denver Broncos.

All of the other original eight AFL franchises either changed their names:

Boston Patriots/New England Patriots
New York Titans/New York Jets

Or relocated:

Dallas Texans/KC Chiefs
Houston Oilers/Tennesee Titans
LA Chargers/SD Chargers
Oakland Raiders/LA Raiders

crazyhorse
08-08-2010, 03:10 PM
I can see your argument, but I think I would expect a thread bashing Floyd Little from a troll and think crazyhorse made himself part of this community and thus shouldn't be trolling.



Im not trolling. I presented my post in a respectful debatable format. I think sometimes we forget how I used to troll this board. I didnt just meander in lobbing softballs. I came in smashing on people in a very calculated and I must say brilliant way. If I were trolling, this thread would be 500 posts long. And I would have capitalized on every opportunity to slam some of these dip****s in here.

But I havent

You are grossly underestimating my trolling prowess.

crazyhorse
08-08-2010, 03:13 PM
Baloney. I would never be so no-class to start a thread like this on a Chief board the day after an HOF induction. Hard to believe you're defending him twice on this thread.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have class when I post something you like. No class when I dont. The people here attacking me for a football opinion have no class.

So......there ya go.

Rabb
08-08-2010, 03:13 PM
anyone ever consider that getting all worked up about it is exactly what the goal was here?

don't feed the troll and the troll will stop coming around for food

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 03:24 PM
Don Perkins and Ken Willard.

Don Perkins didn't have the all purpose yards, though. But I have to say looking at his stat line, he was pretty dominant in the rushing game 1961-68. And being drafted out of New Mexico, ya gotta love him. Thanks for pointing that out.

I remember Ken Willard, he was pretty dang good on a bad team. But again, he didn't have the all-purpose yards Floyd Little had.

bombay
08-08-2010, 03:25 PM
Congratulations to Floyd.

It was overdue.

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 03:29 PM
anyone ever consider that getting all worked up about it is exactly what the goal was here?

don't feed the troll and the troll will stop coming around for food

Yeah, I considered that, and I figured it was worth it to reply. Trolling about mundane things I don't reply to. Trolling to trash Floyd Little the day after he gets inducted into the NFL Hall Of Fame, well, I'm gonna be sure to tell the troll he's a no-class bum. I'd regret it if I didn't do so.

Tombstone RJ
08-08-2010, 03:35 PM
Sigh.

I hate this. I hate that I have to be the one to defend a guy I actually disagree with. Just let the record show I disagree with the content of crazy's initial post.

With that said. This comment about the "timing" of the thread is ridiculous. And I'm quoting jbs here because he was the last person to say it, although I know numerous others did as well.

I mean honestly, when else should he have started it? Think about it. Do we even think about the HOF any other time of year than right now? The answer is no. We pay attention to Canton for about a week each year. Should he really have started this thread 6 months from now? And even if he did, would the result have been any different? The answer, again, is no.

You guys act as if he actually went to Canton and disrupted the event. He didn't. Floyd had his day. Contrary to popular belief, Floyd will not be personally affected by this thread. Everybody just needs to calm down.

Best line of this thread: "We wasted a sticky on you!" Epic unintentional comedy. As if we're only allowed a certain number of stickies. As if the sticky is an endangered species or something. Classic.

He could have given it a week or so, perhaps after the excitment has worn off and people are more concerned with the current team.

DomCasual
08-08-2010, 03:38 PM
I would argue in this thread, other than one fact. Floyd Little is in the Hall of Fame. It's like bitching about a game after it's over. It's all fine and good until Monday, and then you start thinking about the next game.

So, let's start talking about Shannon Sharpe, Steve Atwater, TD, and (I can dream) Rod Smith.

The fact that the Broncos, with all their tradition, have three (2 3/4) Hall of Famers is ridiculous. I don't mean to sound greedy, but we need to get three or four more in over the next five years. And once Champ retires, he'll be another one.

crazyhorse
08-08-2010, 03:41 PM
Yeah, I considered that, and I figured it was worth it to reply. Trolling about mundane things I don't reply to. Trolling to trash Floyd Little the day after he gets inducted into the NFL Hall Of Fame, well, I'm gonna be sure to tell the troll he's a no-class bum. I'd regret it if I didn't do so.


I challenge you to find anything in any of my posts that trashed Floyd.

Or is that what you need to justify acting out?

DomCasual
08-08-2010, 03:45 PM
Im sorry Bronco fans. Thats ridiculous.

Ill admit, when I heard there was no Broncos in the Hall a couple years ago, I thought to mysef, how can that be? They have been to the SB as many if not more times as any other team in the NFL. Surely there has to be some hall of Famers in there somewhere. I'm no Bronco historian so I didn't know who it might be. But thought you dont do that well without a few good players along the way.

After Bronco fans started complaining, (I'll say 3 years) ago about no Broncos being in the Hall, all of a sudden there are several Broncos players on the ballot every year. As though the committee realized they should make an effort to get some Broncos in there. I agreed with Elway of course. The guy belongs in the Hall of Fame. Who's gonna argue that point? But I'm gonna tell ya, and it's not going to be popular, any RB that runs for no more than 6500 yards in his carreer dont belong. I dont care if he did it in 2 years.

I personally dont believe TD belongs either, But that is more debatable than Little. I dont think TD did it long enough.

Last night, 2 RBs went into the Hall. Emmitt Smith with over 18,000 yards and Floyd Little with 6500 yards. Reeeeeeediculous

Flame away.

So, with the blanket statement I bolded above, should Gale Sayers be in?

I'm not comparing Sayers to Little, mind you. But your statement made me curious.

crazyhorse
08-08-2010, 03:51 PM
So, with the blanket statement I bolded above, should Gale Sayers be in?

I'm not comparing Sayers to Little, mind you. But your statement made me curious.

Not really.

He was certainly an elite talent. But so many have done it at a high level longer, that he would fall short IMO

Like Bo.Jackson. He would have been had he played long enough. But Sayers is right on that line. You could have a strong arguement either way.

Jason in LA
08-08-2010, 04:04 PM
7th best in an era does not qualify someone for the Hall IMO. If you took the 7th best RB of this era would you want to put him in the HOF? If you put the 7th best WR, the 7th LBer, the 7th Safety then suddenlt the HOF becomes watered down.



That wasn't 7th best of his era. That was 7th best all time up until that point.

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 04:12 PM
I would argue in this thread, other than one fact. Floyd Little is in the Hall of Fame. It's like b****ing about a game after it's over. It's all fine and good until Monday, and then you start thinking about the next game.

So, let's start talking about Shannon Sharpe, Steve Atwater, TD, and (I can dream) Rod Smith.

The fact that the Broncos, with all their tradition, have three (2 3/4) Hall of Famers is ridiculous. I don't mean to sound greedy, but we need to get three or four more in over the next five years. And once Champ retires, he'll be another one.

Randy Gradishar should get the biggest push right now, IMO. The guy routinely put up 180 + tackles per year, had 210 tackles one year. He's par with Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier, Butkus, all in the HOF. His contemporary Jack Lambert is in the HOF. Hell, there was only one LB in the NFL better than Gradishar in his playing years and that was Jack Lambert. But Gradishar isn't good enough for the HOF? Gradishar has been a finalist many times, it's time for him to get a push into the HOF.

Bill Thompson, Karl Mecklenburg, they should be considered a little more. Dan Reeves should be in the HOF as a 1/2 Bronco.

There's a lot of players not only from the Broncos but from other small market teams that should be in the HOF. Leslie O'Neal for instance, dude terrorized the NFL for ten years in San Diego, is 8th all time in career sacks with 132.5, but you never hear his name mentioned for the HOF.

Maximus
08-08-2010, 04:27 PM
I will give you Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk and even Curtis Martin, but not Eddie George.

George was good, but hardly dominant. The only category he ever led the NFL in was carries in 2000. He also owns a 3.6 yards per carry for his career, which is not HOF worthy.

TD led the NFL in six different categories, was the 2008 NFL MVP and 2006 Offensive POY. I am not even mentioning his postseason accolades.

TD's peak value is more impressive than George's overall contributions. George will be lucky to be a HOF finalist.

Point taken on Eddie George. However, if you compare their stats can you really put Davis that far ahead of Eddie George. Outside of post season stats compare them and they are almost the same. Davis had more yards from scrimmage. Different offensive systems... interesting argument though.

Maximus
08-08-2010, 04:37 PM
Curtis Martin is not a HoFamer. He's an average player that was fortunate enough never to suffer serious injury. Longevity != greatness.

A guy like TD was by far the best back while he was playing, which imo, is step 1 to determining if a guy is HoF worthy. Martin and George (lol?) were never in that category or really even close to it.

The debate can go all day about TD being in the HoF or not and it's a legitamte discussion. However, bringing up guys like you posted above is absurd, considering the complete dominance TD had over the NFL in his short career.

Complete dominance from a bronco fans perspective. From an outside standpoint Marshall Faulk & Emmitt Smith were absolutely more dominant. Curtis Martin averaged 4.0 yards over a longer career has better stats. It's hardly absurd to say that martin would probably get the nod over davis just because of longevity. They both came into the league at the same time so Davis will be directly compared to Curtis Martin. Eddie George entered the league 1 year later. So, again... davis will have the numbers going against him.

I'm not saying that TD doesn't have an advantage because of the playoffs but you have to remember the entire body of work which wasn't that long.

DHallblows
08-08-2010, 04:39 PM
Sigh.

I hate this. I hate that I have to be the one to defend a guy I actually disagree with. Just let the record show I disagree with the content of crazy's initial post.

With that said. This comment about the "timing" of the thread is ridiculous. And I'm quoting jbs here because he was the last person to say it, although I know numerous others did as well.

I mean honestly, when else should he have started it? Think about it. Do we even think about the HOF any other time of year than right now? The answer is no. We pay attention to Canton for about a week each year. Should he really have started this thread 6 months from now? And even if he did, would the result have been any different? The answer, again, is no.

You guys act as if he actually went to Canton and disrupted the event. He didn't. Floyd had his day. Contrary to popular belief, Floyd will not be personally affected by this thread. Everybody just needs to calm down.

Best line of this thread: "We wasted a sticky on you!" Epic unintentional comedy. As if we're only allowed a certain number of stickies. As if the sticky is an endangered species or something. Classic.

What he said.

Grow the **** up everyone else. Christ, it's an opinion.

DomCasual
08-08-2010, 04:54 PM
Randy Gradishar should get the biggest push right now, IMO. The guy routinely put up 180 + tackles per year, had 210 tackles one year. He's par with Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier, Butkus, all in the HOF. His contemporary Jack Lambert is in the HOF. Hell, there was only one LB in the NFL better than Gradishar in his playing years and that was Jack Lambert. But Gradishar isn't good enough for the HOF? Gradishar has been a finalist many times, it's time for him to get a push into the HOF.

Bill Thompson, Karl Mecklenburg, they should be considered a little more. Dan Reeves should be in the HOF as a 1/2 Bronco.

There's a lot of players not only from the Broncos but from other small market teams that should be in the HOF. Leslie O'Neal for instance, dude terrorized the NFL for ten years in San Diego, is 8th all time in career sacks with 132.5, but you never hear his name mentioned for the HOF.

Gradishar has to get put on by the Seniors Committee now, and I think that puts him well down a list of eligible options. It's a shame, but I think he's a ways off from having a real shot again.

DomCasual
08-08-2010, 05:11 PM
Complete dominance from a bronco fans perspective. From an outside standpoint Marshall Faulk & Emmitt Smith were absolutely more dominant. Curtis Martin averaged 4.0 yards over a longer career has better stats. It's hardly absurd to say that martin would probably get the nod over davis just because of longevity. They both came into the league at the same time so Davis will be directly compared to Curtis Martin. Eddie George entered the league 1 year later. So, again... davis will have the numbers going against him.

I'm not saying that TD doesn't have an advantage because of the playoffs but you have to remember the entire body of work which wasn't that long.

An UNPARALLELED playoff run, and a Super Bowl MVP.

And there's a BIG difference between Martin's 4.0 YPC and TD's 4.6 YPC. Bettis drops off to 3.9, and George all the way to 3.6. George's BEST SEASON was only 4.1 - a full half yard below TD's AVERAGE. Put it in perspective - Walter Payton finished at 4.4 YPC; Emmitt Smith at 4.2; Eric Dickerson at 4.4 - all below TD.

The other big number is Yards per Game. TD was at 97.5. Eddie George never did that in a single season. Even throwing Eddie George in the conversation makes me think you are either ignorant (I don't think that) or extremely biased. Curtis Martin had a respectable 83.9 YPG. Bettis was only at 71.2. Again, for perspective: Emmitt finished at 81.2 YPG (85.4 during his Dallas years); Dickerson at 90.8; Payton at 88.0.

I get that TD did it over a shorter career. But during that shorter career, he dominated during the playoffs, and won two Super Bowls.

Cito Pelon
08-08-2010, 05:19 PM
Gradishar has to get put on by the Seniors Committee now, and I think that puts him well down a list of eligible options. It's a shame, but I think he's a ways off from having a real shot again.

Sure, but nevertheless Gradishar has to be kept at the top of the list.

broncosteven
08-08-2010, 05:48 PM
Im sorry Bronco fans. Thats ridiculous.

Ill admit, when I heard there was no Broncos in the Hall a couple years ago, I thought to mysef, how can that be? They have been to the SB as many if not more times as any other team in the NFL. Surely there has to be some hall of Famers in there somewhere. I'm no Bronco historian so I didn't know who it might be. But thought you dont do that well without a few good players along the way.

After Bronco fans started complaining, (I'll say 3 years) ago about no Broncos being in the Hall, all of a sudden there are several Broncos players on the ballot every year. As though the committee realized they should make an effort to get some Broncos in there. I agreed with Elway of course. The guy belongs in the Hall of Fame. Who's gonna argue that point? But I'm gonna tell ya, and it's not going to be popular, any RB that runs for no more than 6500 yards in his carreer dont belong. I dont care if he did it in 2 years.

I personally dont believe TD belongs either, But that is more debatable than Little. I dont think TD did it long enough.

Last night, 2 RBs went into the Hall. Emmitt Smith with over 18,000 yards and Floyd Little with 6500 yards. Reeeeeeediculous

Flame away.

Thanks for pissing on my parade a-hole.

You look though the stats of other HOF'ers and then tell me why a guy who was able to keep a team in their original city and get a stadium built then performed at a high level on a team that had 27 QB's during his career and was a great citizen should be kept out?

I want to know why they are so eager to let guys like Irvin and LT and OJ IN, not to mention Griese, Alphonse Tuffy Leemans, Steve Van Buren, Charley Trippy ETC...

Do yourself a favor and educate yourself. Go to the HOF or at least their website and read about guys who are in from the same time frame, read Floyd and Tom's book Tales from the Bronco sidelines and stop trolling.

Homer Simpson
08-08-2010, 05:52 PM
Thanks for pissing on my parade a-hole.

You look though the stats of other HOF'ers and then tell me why a guy who was able to keep a team in their original city and get a stadium built then performed at a high level on a team that had 27 QB's during his career and was a great citizen should be kept out?

I want to know why they are so eager to let guys like Irvin and LT and OJ IN, not to mention Griese, Alphonse Tuffy Leemans, Steve Van Buren, Charley Trippy ETC...

Do yourself a favor and educate yourself. Go to the HOF or at least their website and read about guys who are in from the same time frame, read Floyd and Tom's book Tales from the Bronco sidelines and stop trolling.

^5 :strong: ^5 :strong: ^5 :strong: ^5

Sing it brother!!

bombay
08-08-2010, 06:20 PM
Floyd being interviewed at the Hall Of Fame game by the sideline woman who does a good job. Floyd talks about his initial trip to Denver when he was drafted, and then about his son Mark, who was shot in '87 and has a prosthetic (sp?) leg. Then they go back to idiot Al Michaels, who remarks that Floyd is 'articulate'. I wouldn't mind strangling that clown.

Jason7730
08-08-2010, 06:38 PM
^5 :strong: ^5 :strong: ^5 :strong: ^5

sing it brother!!

+1

Jason7730
08-08-2010, 06:42 PM
An UNPARALLELED playoff run, and a Super Bowl MVP.

And there's a BIG difference between Martin's 4.0 YPC and TD's 4.6 YPC. Bettis drops off to 3.9, and George all the way to 3.6. George's BEST SEASON was only 4.1 - a full half yard below TD's AVERAGE. Put it in perspective - Walter Payton finished at 4.4 YPC; Emmitt Smith at 4.2; Eric Dickerson at 4.4 - all below TD.

The other big number is Yards per Game. TD was at 97.5. Eddie George never did that in a single season. Even throwing Eddie George in the conversation makes me think you are either ignorant (I don't think that) or extremely biased. Curtis Martin had a respectable 83.9 YPG. Bettis was only at 71.2. Again, for perspective: Emmitt finished at 81.2 YPG (85.4 during his Dallas years); Dickerson at 90.8; Payton at 88.0.

I get that TD did it over a shorter career. But during that shorter career, he dominated during the playoffs, and won two Super Bowls.
Nice post. It also shows that e. smith was not "absolutely more dominate" than TD was when he played.

Gort
08-10-2010, 02:03 AM
When talk about HOF I always think numbers don't mean anything, because there are to many things that need be factored in. The central question in my mind is always the same "Did that player dominate his era when compared to his peers". That why I believe Bettis shouldn't get in and players like TD should. Bettis had long career and good numbers, but I would never consider him the best running back of his time in the league. For Little he was a player that argument could be made that he was the standard in late 60s and early 70s.

once they opened up the doors for Franco Harris, the HOF lost all credibility with me (at least with respect to RBs). Franco Harris' entire career consisted of 3-yard and 4-yard runs ending with Harris running out of bounds before he could be tackled. that, and 90 fumbles(!). so for anyone who would deny Little or TD entry (which they earned), i would counter with this question... "what about Franco Harris?".

ShutDownPoster
08-10-2010, 02:47 AM
And he did all this with bow legs dammit! :-)

TDmvp
08-10-2010, 02:52 AM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:4srMQ8zglxx0dM:http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/Gothic-Prodigy/trek-thread-sucks.jpg&t=1

Blueflame
08-10-2010, 12:11 PM
I saw Terrell Davis mentioned as a HOF candidate. IMO Davis is less of a candidate if we go by the argument of the era that he played in. If we use that as the premise, Davis would have to be judged in the Era of his peers which include Emmit Smith & Barry Sanders who happen to be HOF'ers and 1 and 2 in all time yardage in NFL history!

Let's not forget Marshall Faulk, Eddie George and Curtis Martin all have longer careers and were all dominant.

Dunno if I can agree with the contention that being lucky enough to not experience a career-ending injury (and RB health is nothing more than luck, Max) = "more deserving of HOF honors".....


Back in 1996, 1997 or 1998, anyone who even suggested that Bettis would be more likely to make the HOF than TD would have been laughed out of the place. There were very few RBs in the league at the time who were more respected by opposing DCs than TD... I'd give you Barry Sanders, but certainly not the likes of Eddie George, Curtis Martin or Jerome Bettis.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-10-2010, 12:22 PM
Football accomplishments should not be measured by longevity. Its a physical sport of short careers and that shouldn't be a hall of fame deterent. Simply put, Terrell Davis's post season accomplishments alone put him in the hall of fame for me. He's at the top of most of those records and still holds some pretty important ones. For a 3 year period, he was probably the best running back in football on the best team in football. He's not a running back that will soon be forgotten. If you want to talk about impact players, memorable players, players that defined a team...then how can you leave Davis out of the conversation? Would it really make him more worthy if he put up a few more decent years to pad stats?

Blart
08-10-2010, 12:45 PM
Newsflash:

The game changes every year.

Comparing a player in the 90's to one in the 70's is like comparing an MLB star to an NBA star. They didn't play the same game.

broncocalijohn
08-10-2010, 12:46 PM
Would you support Gayle Sayers as a HOFer? Here is his stats with 5 full seasons. After all, you stated anyone with 6500 yards should not get in the HOF.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SayeGa00.htm

How about baseball? Sandy Koufax had only 165 wins as the norm seems to be 300? Should he not have been a HOF?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/koufasa01.shtml

How about John Franklin Baker for the baseball HOF? He had only 96 homeruns in his entire career! Only batted .307 so wasnt a huge BA star like so many than. What was his nickname? Homerun Baker. Led the league for 4 straight years with the most of 12 in one season.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/koufasa01.shtml

Crazy Horse, you forget time, injuries (Koufax and Sayers) and era (different rules, equipment and length of season). You are old enough that you should know the history of the sport. Unfortunately, you are just plain dumb and glad you are not a Broncos fan. You have failed miserably with your attempt to ruin a great day by showing ignorance. Not sure where Boob has been but you just took his place as troll of the preseason. Congrats!
PS: Left a little (neg) rep for ya on this one.