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BigPlayShay
08-05-2010, 02:44 PM
So, we can debate to death who's fault the injury is (even though it occurred in a routine drill that happens aaaaaaaalllllll the time), but that gets us nowhere.

So, McD had a few things to say in his press conference today.I don't see it online anywhere yet, but here are some tidbits:

* Jarvis Moss has an opportunity and has had a good camp so far
* Mentioned Haggan going back outside as a possibility
* A combination of versatile players will have to fill the void of Doom, no one will replace him.
* He referenced the 4-3 a few times. Says they have been practicing it even before Dooms injury. (Schoebel???)

Your thoughts...

The MVPlaya
08-05-2010, 02:48 PM
where is the press conference video?

Quoydogs
08-05-2010, 02:48 PM
My thoughts are the same as before.

#1 F@#$ !!!!
#2 Why God Why
#3 We should all buy stock in the liqueur companies because its going to be a long long season.

steeledude
08-05-2010, 02:49 PM
I think a switch to 4-3 with the personnel we have might be a good idea. I mean Ayers might be much better rushing from the end and same with Jarvis Moss.

Linebackers could be a combo of rolb Woodyard, mlb Williams (if healthy), and slb haggan.

DT's is a little tougher. I haven't heard anything on Jamaal Williams is he hurt too?

BigPlayShay
08-05-2010, 02:50 PM
DT's is a little tougher. I haven't heard anything on Jamaal Williams is he hurt too?

Jamaal is back on the field this afternoon.

SoDak Bronco
08-05-2010, 02:51 PM
5-11 or 6-10 here we come....sucks for us

MVP-06
08-05-2010, 03:32 PM
Adalius Thomas?

UberBroncoMan
08-05-2010, 03:33 PM
Some ****ed up ****. The ass-hats we send out of town get paid/go back to their hometown teams, and the loyal one gets paid but his career ****ed up.

Rulon Velvet Jones
08-05-2010, 03:35 PM
Might be able to wrangle Marcus Spears away from the Cowboys

El Guapo
08-05-2010, 03:41 PM
I agree. A buddy of mine has told me the cowboys have placed a call to denver regarding trade possibilities. For whom I don't know. (my buddy works for them. Could be all this ever is though... Talk)

DomCasual
08-05-2010, 03:41 PM
5-11 or 6-10 here we come....sucks for us

It depends on what you thought we were going to be before. As valuable as he is, I don't think he is going to be the difference in an extra three or four wins.

Rulon Velvet Jones
08-05-2010, 03:43 PM
I agree. A buddy of mine has told me the cowboys have placed a call to denver regarding trade possibilities. For whom I don't know. (my buddy works for them. Could be all this ever is though... Talk)

Must be for picks. Cowboys are alright along most fronts. They could use some O-line depth, but Denver can't provide that right now. Martellus Bennett could be on the outs, as well.

Broncosfreak_56
08-05-2010, 03:44 PM
Ayers and Moss need to step up, its as simple as that.

Rulon Velvet Jones
08-05-2010, 03:47 PM
I agree. A buddy of mine has told me the cowboys have placed a call to denver regarding trade possibilities. For whom I don't know. (my buddy works for them. Could be all this ever is though... Talk)

I have a guy double-checking it from camp right now.

Los Broncos
08-05-2010, 03:48 PM
Going to Costco after work tonight to pile up loads of beer for the season.

BigPlayShay
08-05-2010, 03:51 PM
Here is the Press Conference:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Day-5-McDaniels/c605baa3-24ba-47ea-8674-1b79bac81791

TheReverend
08-05-2010, 03:56 PM
That'd be one mammoth four man front

Rulon Velvet Jones
08-05-2010, 04:04 PM
Whoops-

SAN ANTONIO -- The Cowboys last two-a-day practice here ended with a starter and a prominent backup riding in the back of a golf cart together.

Starting defensive end Marcus Spears suffered a leg injury with about 20 minutes left in Thursday's practice. Swing tackle Alex Barron suffered a dislocated left pinky finger at the end of practice.




More on the Cowboys
Calvin Watkins and Tim MacMahon have the Cowboys blanketed for ESPNDallas.com. Check in with their constantly updated coverage. Blog

The playing status of both players is in question as the Cowboys play their first preseason game on Sunday against the Cincinnati Bengals in Canton, Ohio.

Spears went down after a block and was slow to get up. He limped to the side where he was looked at by trainers Jim Maurer and Britt Brown. Coach Wade Phillips and fellow nose tackle Jay Ratliff also spoke with Spears. Spears was escorted to the locker room by Maurer.

McDman
08-05-2010, 04:14 PM
Whoops-

SAN ANTONIO -- The Cowboys last two-a-day practice here ended with a starter and a prominent backup riding in the back of a golf cart together.

Starting defensive end Marcus Spears suffered a leg injury with about 20 minutes left in Thursday's practice. Swing tackle Alex Barron suffered a dislocated left pinky finger at the end of practice.




More on the Cowboys
Calvin Watkins and Tim MacMahon have the Cowboys blanketed for ESPNDallas.com. Check in with their constantly updated coverage. Blog

The playing status of both players is in question as the Cowboys play their first preseason game on Sunday against the Cincinnati Bengals in Canton, Ohio.

Spears went down after a block and was slow to get up. He limped to the side where he was looked at by trainers Jim Maurer and Britt Brown. Coach Wade Phillips and fellow nose tackle Jay Ratliff also spoke with Spears. Spears was escorted to the locker room by Maurer.

Wade Phillips is clearly pushing his players too hard!

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2010, 04:17 PM
Going to Costco after work tonight to pile up loads of beer for the season.

good plan. keep your focus.

Hogan11
08-05-2010, 04:17 PM
Wade Phillips is clearly pushing his players too hard!

Ha!

On a side note: I'm hungry for football and all, but I'd rather watch the CFL than one minute of the Bengals vs Cowboys, just saying is all.

Hogan11
08-05-2010, 04:18 PM
I think a switch to 4-3 with the personnel we have might be a good idea. I mean Ayers might be much better rushing from the end and same with Jarvis Moss.

Linebackers could be a combo of rolb Woodyard, mlb Williams (if healthy), and slb haggan.

DT's is a little tougher. I haven't heard anything on Jamaal Williams is he hurt too?

This is an interesting idea....I wonder if they'll do it.

elsid13
08-05-2010, 04:22 PM
This is an interesting idea....I wonder if they'll do it.

McDaniels has stated before that they are going with system and sticking to it. So if the don't get a older FA (like Joey Porter(if he out there), I expect a trade for 2nd day pick (2nd/3rd rounder) for someone.

McDman
08-05-2010, 04:25 PM
Ha!

On a side note: I'm hungry for football and all, but I'd rather watch the CFL than one minute of the Bengals vs Cowboys, just saying is all.

I have to watch, it's principle. I've been waiting for football for so long that I at least have to watch the first couple of series.

Hogan11
08-05-2010, 04:29 PM
I have to watch, it's principle. I've been waiting for football for so long that I at least have to watch the first couple of series.

I may boycott the Bengals all season long.

I want to watch a football game, not a freakin' circus with the media licking it's collective nuts at every turn.

Popps
08-05-2010, 04:30 PM
They'll have to run some 4/3, I'd imagine. We're left without a single pass-rushing threat from the 3/4 unless Ayers shows a jump this season. (Which could happen.)

Someone mentioned A. Thomas. There must be a good reason no one has picked this guy up yet... but desperate times call for desperate measures.

We've got to land some sort of pass rushing threat from somewhere. I can't imagine we stay put with just what we have. We're bringing SOMEONE in.

Hogan11
08-05-2010, 04:31 PM
McDaniels has stated before that they are going with system and sticking to it. So if the don't get a older FA (like Joey Porter(if he out there), I expect a trade for 2nd day pick (2nd/3rd rounder) for someone.

That's true, but with the loss of Doom, I wonder if it doesn't call for drastic measures.

Porter is still out there?? Yeah, him in Denver, imagine that! Ha!

Popps
08-05-2010, 04:32 PM
That's true, but with the loss of Doom, I wonder if it doesn't call for drastic measures.

Porter is still out there?? Yeah, him in Denver, imagine that! Ha!

I've been saying we should have nabbed Porter for a while. Even before this injury.

But, the Cards already grabbed him.

elsid13
08-05-2010, 04:34 PM
That's true, but with the loss of Doom, I wonder if it doesn't call for drastic measures.

Porter is still out there?? Yeah, him in Denver, imagine that! Ha!

Losing Doom was blow, but he was one player and this defense was built around 3/4 concept, they aren't going to scrape everything for one player no matter how good he is/was.

Porter is playing for Arizona. Who knew.

Rulon Velvet Jones
08-05-2010, 04:36 PM
MCL for Spears.

Wade is a slavedriver.

elsid13
08-05-2010, 04:42 PM
For FA currently out there:

1.Angelo Crowell
2. Bertrand Berry |
3. Bruce Davis (cut by Denver a couple of weeks ago)

And that's pretty much it for 3/4 backer

Sassy
08-05-2010, 04:45 PM
I may boycott the Bengals all season long.

I want to watch a football game, not a freakin' circus with the media licking it's collective nuts at every turn.

I'm going to add Miami to that list :wiggle:

SoCalBronco
08-05-2010, 04:49 PM
It's crushing, but its not anyone's fault. These things happen and they can happen in any drill. It was and still is the right move for the FO to have re-signed him. You can't go back and say "oh we can't sign any long term deals because of the injury possibility". Well....anything's possible, that's not the issue. The only time injuries are really relevant to contract discussions are when the player has a significant injury history. That wasn't really the case with Doom, so they did the right thing. The market would bear nothing less. If you adopt a general strategy of not paying long term deals just on the possibility of injury rather than an individualized analysis of the player history you will NEVER be able to re-sign anyone that's important. So they did the right thing and its still the right thing. He'll be back, probably in December.

It will be difficult to have success against the pass without him unless we're going to blitz alot. That's probably the best solution. The run D doesn't suffer with this development, its the pass that's the issue. They'll just have to blitz more and hope an improved Jarvis Moss can contribute say 6 or 7 sacks. You can't go back to a 4-3, IMO. We've spent a year and a half trying to get 3-4 personnel. Our DL are basically 3-4 personnel. You can't play games with the formations. You have to get GOOD at something. You can't be constantly doing 10 different things and expect to get good at it. Just stick with what you have....we have a pretty beefy DL, so hopefully they'll take some heat off of whoever's at WOLB.

If we can just stay in contention till December...just hover around .500 if possible, we can still do something when he gets back, but we'll see. It's going to be difficult to accomplish that. At the very least, they can afford absolutely no more injuries to any other starters. Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. And I'm hoping to see DJ return to practice as he's been out a couple days with apparently something minor (but not disclosed).

Hogan11
08-05-2010, 04:50 PM
For FA currently out there:

1.Angelo Crowell
2. Bertrand Berry |
3. Bruce Davis (cut by Denver a couple of weeks ago)

And that's pretty much it for 3/4 backer

Does Bertrand Berry have anything left?

elsid13
08-05-2010, 04:54 PM
Does Bertrand Berry have anything left?

I doubt it. Crowell is far more interesting to me. He played OLD in 3/4 at UVA and I thought that good position for him. Since he been in the NFL he played the SAM position in 4/3 and has been average. A move outside could be good fit for him and us.

wolf754life
08-05-2010, 04:57 PM
Does Bertrand Berry have anything left?

word is that bowlen is said to be quite upset, perception of fielding a competitive team is completely shot now.

it is times like this that will truly define coaching, not how you do when all things go well, but how you manage when things go badly.

mcdaniels will get this year and next, expectations have been lowered dramatically by ownership due to this injury. Bowlen is said to be privately expecting no more than 6 wins total.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2010, 04:59 PM
word is that bowlen is said to be quite upset, perception of fielding a competitive team is completely shot now.

it is times like this that will truly define coaching, not how you do when all things go well, but how you manage when things go badly.

mcdaniels will get this year and next, expectations have been lowered dramatically by ownership due to this injury. Bowlen is said to be privately expecting no more than 6 wins total.

Nice story bro... speaking of making crap up, how's your love life? :wiggle:

El Guapo
08-05-2010, 05:01 PM
Welp, that sucks about spears. Could be the end of those talks...

lostknight
08-05-2010, 05:03 PM
I'm going to laugh hard if we end up having to go back to a 4-3 after all this crap. Somewhere Mike Nolan must be laughing his ass off.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2010, 05:04 PM
I'm going to laugh hard if we end up having to go back to a 4-3 after all this crap. Somewhere Mike Nolan must be laughing his ass off.

yah, I'm sure Mike Nolan gives a rats azz.

Archer81
08-05-2010, 05:04 PM
word is that bowlen is said to be quite upset, perception of fielding a competitive team is completely shot now.

it is times like this that will truly define coaching, not how you do when all things go well, but how you manage when things go badly.

mcdaniels will get this year and next, expectations have been lowered dramatically by ownership due to this injury. Bowlen is said to be privately expecting no more than 6 wins total.


Right...

Is this a serious post or did I miss the sarcasm? Word from who? Gandhi? The aliens you wear tinfoil hats to stop from reading your mind?

:Broncos:

Archer81
08-05-2010, 05:05 PM
I'm going to laugh hard if we end up having to go back to a 4-3 after all this crap. Somewhere Mike Nolan must be laughing his ass off.


You are a Bronco fan, right?


:Broncos:

CEH
08-05-2010, 05:05 PM
They'll have to run some 4/3, I'd imagine. We're left without a single pass-rushing threat from the 3/4 unless Ayers shows a jump this season. (Which could happen.)

Someone mentioned A. Thomas. There must be a good reason no one has picked this guy up yet... but desperate times call for desperate measures.

We've got to land some sort of pass rushing threat from somewhere. I can't imagine we stay put with just what we have. We're bringing SOMEONE in.

The 3-4 gives you so many more options to generate a pass rush than the 4-3. It's a blow but then NE never had a dominate pass rusher and did OK. What they had were guys so verasile you never knew who was coming and from where. We aren't there yet but if we can't stop the run nothing else matters anyways. Big Jammal was back at practice today thank the lord


Most guys in this league got their start because of injury so I'm looking forward to seeing who steps up

How's that for being positive

enjolras
08-05-2010, 05:08 PM
Look.. I'm as bummed as anybody. But how is the loss of a sack specialist who is downright weak against the run going to doom our season? Are we a worse team without Elvis? Yep. Are we significantly worse? I just don't see how.

wolf754life
08-05-2010, 05:09 PM
Look.. I'm as bummed as anybody. But how is the loss of a sack specialist who is downright weak against the run going to doom our season? Are we a worse team without Elvis? Yep. Are we significantly worse? I just don't see how.

so thats why you pay him 63 million right?

Rock Chalk
08-05-2010, 05:10 PM
Doom is awesome but he wasnt responsible for 4 wins last year.

Clady is the bigger loss IMO. Left Tackle is too important of a position to not have your absolute star stud playing. I dont expect much out of Doom this year anyway. He got paid and he was going to get double and tripled teamed. Without any other true pass rushers single teams could handle the rest. So its a wash.

Lolad
08-05-2010, 05:12 PM
Witching back to a 4-3 would be dumb IMO. After getting demolished running it in the offseason the players would say "I was confused, didn't have enough time to familiarize myself with the defense... I had to think and react.... Now since we have another year in the defense I feel like I'm comfortable... etc"

run the scheme that the players are used to playing

Mogulseeker
08-05-2010, 05:18 PM
So, we can debate to death who's fault the injury is (even though it occurred in a routine drill that happens aaaaaaaalllllll the time), but that gets us nowhere.

So, McD had a few things to say in his press conference today.I don't see it online anywhere yet, but here are some tidbits:

* Jarvis Moss has an opportunity and has had a good camp so far
* Mentioned Haggan going back outside as a possibility
* A combination of versatile players will have to fill the void of Doom, no one will replace him.
* He referenced the 4-3 a few times. Says they have been practicing it even before Dooms injury. (Schoebel???)

Your thoughts...

Never been a fan of the 4-3, and always thought there was more versatility and better pass protection out of a 3-4... maybe it IS Moss's time to come around.

cutthemdown
08-05-2010, 05:26 PM
Wow we are going to stink this yr. Talk about lack of talent. Then what talent you have is all banged to hell. Broncos may finish dead last in west. KC pretty bad as well though.

TheReverend
08-05-2010, 05:37 PM
We went to the playoffs when our only proven pass rusher (Pryce) was hurt all season. Relax guys. This just opens the door for someone else, Moss, to fill his shoes, albeit less effectively.

outdoor_miner
08-05-2010, 05:55 PM
We went to the playoffs when our only proven pass rusher (Pryce) was hurt all season. Relax guys. This just opens the door for someone else, Moss, to fill his shoes, albeit less effectively.

This. I can't believe people are giving up so quickly. Football, of all the major sports, is far and away the most team oriented. If McDaniels is a good coach, and I believe he is, he will get his team to work around this. It is a major setback, but this team went 8-8 last year with a tougher schedule, and only one offseason to learn new systems on both sides of the ball. Our QB should be better. The O-Line should be better. The D-Line should be better. Special Teams should be better. Hell, McD's coaching should be better.

Good teams fight around this crap all the time. That is why McD is obsessed with adding depth and competition all over the football field. Injuries happen. Now, guys like Moss and Ayers need to quit talking and step up. Someone like Kirlew needs to surprise. Something needs to happen, and I think it will because I truly think he is a good coach. If the Broncos go 6-10 this year, McD deserves no slack. This is not an excuse to suck. However, I still believe we are a playoff team.

Go Broncos.

Caveat Lector
08-05-2010, 06:03 PM
There's a disgruntled OLB/Pass Rusher in our division, could be partial to a trade... Uhh

SouthStndJunkie
08-05-2010, 06:17 PM
There's a disgruntled OLB/Pass Rusher in our division, could be partial to a trade... Uhh

I'm sure Bowlen would love nothing more than to trade for Merriman and sink another $30 or $40 million in guaranteed money (Merriman wants to get paid or he won't be happy) into a position that we just sunk $43 million in guaranteed money into.

Besides, Merriman hasn't had a good year since 2007.

Pass for many reasons.

HAT
08-05-2010, 06:19 PM
This. I can't believe people are giving up so quickly. Football, of all the major sports, is far and away the most team oriented.

I agree with the entirety of your post but in regards to the above....

You can blame that squarely on the fantasy football era. I'm not a FF hater (I play) but I do believe it to be a big reason why many fans get way to focused on individual accomplishments.

OH NOES what are we going to do without those 17 sacks? Who cares?

Doom's contribution to an effective pass rush will be missed, no doubt, but it's one freaking guy and they still get to line up with 3 linemen & 4 LBs.

yerner
08-05-2010, 06:44 PM
Well it is a huge deal. 4 wins huge, I'm not so sure. Nonetheless , to win in the NFL you have to get to the quarterback and losing Doom makes that much more difficult. To me, this would be an okay time to overpay in a trade if its possible..

oubronco
08-05-2010, 07:05 PM
Someone will stepup they always do

now who that is I don't know but it always takes something like this to open the door for the underdog player who flourishes

elsid13
08-05-2010, 07:07 PM
There's a disgruntled OLB/Pass Rusher in our division, could be partial to a trade... Uhh

That doesn't make sense. Doom gone this season but he will be back and the team has already invested in him and Ayers there is no place for another big ticket OLB. If any thing you traded for thumper in the middle and move Haggan back to outside. OR move Larson back to LB and let him and Woodyard compete inside for thumper role with Haggan sitting outside.

oubronco
08-05-2010, 07:11 PM
That doesn't make sense. Doom gone this season but he will be back and the team has already invested in him and Ayers there is no place for another big ticket OLB. If any thing you traded for thumper in the middle and move Haggan back to outside. OR move Larson back to LB and let him and Woodyard compete inside for thumper role with Haggan sitting outside.

Interesting, haven't they been using someone else at fullback in practice?

FireFly
08-05-2010, 07:11 PM
Doom is awesome but he wasnt responsible for 4 wins last year.

Clady is the bigger loss IMO. Left Tackle is too important of a position to not have your absolute star stud playing.

I agree. :thumbsup:

I dont expect much out of Doom this year anyway. He got paid and he was going to get double and tripled teamed. Without any other true pass rushers single teams could handle the rest. So its a wash.

I couldn't disagree more. Losing your best defensive player doesn't matter because he was going to get double and tripple teamed anyway!? Seriously? :kiddingme

FireFly
08-05-2010, 07:13 PM
That doesn't make sense. Doom gone this season but he will be back and the team has already invested in him and Ayers there is no place for another big ticket OLB. If any thing you traded for thumper in the middle and move Haggan back to outside. OR move Larson back to LB and let him and Woodyard compete inside for thumper role with Haggan sitting outside.

We're not going to really use a fullback anyhow, so why not!? I endorse this suggestion.

Ray Finkle
08-05-2010, 07:40 PM
We went to the playoffs when our only proven pass rusher (Pryce) was hurt all season. Relax guys. This just opens the door for someone else, Moss, to fill his shoes, albeit less effectively.

it's a loss but not a season ending loss....


jeez, I would have love to have seen this board in 97 when James was lost for the season and Elway tore his bicep...

not saying this team will end the same but you never know.

watermock
08-05-2010, 08:13 PM
I agree with the entirety of your post but in regards to the above....

You can blame that squarely on the fantasy football era. I'm not a FF hater (I play) but I do believe it to be a big reason why many fans get way to focused on individual accomplishments.

OH NOES what are we going to do without those 17 sacks? Who cares?

Doom's contribution to an effective pass rush will be missed, no doubt, but it's one freaking guy and they still get to line up with 3 linemen & 4 LBs.

What Crap.

FF has to do with the gaming, not fan loyalty. It draws some attention away, not real loyalty.

Regardless, I'm not a fan of McD, for many reasons.

I'm still expecting 10-6 whith such an easy schedule.

Surely with all these picks gleaned from his oustanding drafting, this should be easy.

Jason7730
08-05-2010, 08:26 PM
I'm going to laugh hard if we end up having to go back to a 4-3 after all this crap. Somewhere Mike Nolan must be laughing his ass off.
You are a Bronco fan, right?


:Broncos:

No, more likely a "lost" Raiders fan........:wiggle:

LongDongJohnson
08-05-2010, 08:30 PM
We went to the playoffs when our only proven pass rusher (Pryce) was hurt all season. Relax guys. This just opens the door for someone else, Moss, to fill his shoes, albeit less effectively.

atleast that season we had reggie hayward. he was a productive pass rusher. i remember him destroying the titans that season.

Broncoman13
08-05-2010, 08:46 PM
atleast that season we had reggie hayward. he was a productive pass rusher. i remember him destroying the titans that season.

I will bet anyone on this board that Jarvis Moss will stup up and get 8 or more sacks. You put up $20 and if Moss gets less than 8 sacks I will pay you $20 ! If he gets 8 sacks you pay me $20, and if he goes for double digits sack, you owe me $30. If he gets 12 or more you pay me $35 and if he hits 15, you pay me $40!

Broncoman13
08-05-2010, 08:49 PM
Any takers? If he blows it atleast you have $20 in your pocket. If he goes for 15 you are going to be Happy to pay me 40! Who's in?

HAT
08-05-2010, 08:54 PM
What Crap.

FF has to do with the gaming, not fan loyalty. It draws some attention away, not real loyalty.

Regardless, I'm not a fan of McD, for many reasons.

I'm still expecting 10-6 whith such an easy schedule.

Surely with all these picks gleaned from his oustanding drafting, this should be easy.

I'm not talking about loyalty mock. I'm talking about fans obsession with individual statistics & play. Dooms 17 sacks are meaningless to me in and of themselves. How those sacks helped the defense collectively hold opponents to 20.3 PPG is the important part.

A full 25% of the league had sack totals less than Denver but allowed less PPG.

NYJ
BAL
NE
CIN
GB
INDY
CARO
SD

Doom will be missed but we won't know how much until the season is over & we can take a look at how many PPG the 2010 defense allowed.

I agree fully with your last 2 sentences.

Br0nc0Buster
08-05-2010, 08:55 PM
I will bet anyone on this board that Jarvis Moss will stup up and get 8 or more sacks. You put up $20 and if Moss gets less than 8 sacks I will pay you $20 ! If he gets 8 sacks you pay me $20, and if he goes for double digits sack, you owe me $30. If he gets 12 or more you pay me $35 and if he hits 15, you pay me $40!

what has Moss ever done to lead you this conclusion
I know supposedly he looks better this year, but better for him could still be like 2 sacks all year

watermock
08-05-2010, 09:03 PM
I will bet anyone on this board that Jarvis Moss will stup up and get 8 or more sacks. You put up $20 and if Moss gets less than 8 sacks I will pay you $20 ! If he gets 8 sacks you pay me $20, and if he goes for double digits sack, you owe me $30. If he gets 12 or more you pay me $35 and if he hits 15, you pay me $40!

How amusing.

How about Moss will be less than 8 sacks big boy? 50.

Next.

Broncoman13
08-05-2010, 09:26 PM
How amusing.

How about Moss will be less than 8 sacks big boy? 50.

Next.

U got it, $50 of he goes under 8, you owe me $5o if he hits 8. $65 if he hits 10, $80 for 12 and $100 for 15

OCBronco
08-05-2010, 09:53 PM
Doom's sack numbers would have likely been lower this season on account of double teams, so it's a huge loss, but not crippling.

On the other hand, I'm hopeful that we can get a better push up the middle this season from guys like Jamal and Bannan, and hopefully that will free others up, as well.

ZachKC
08-05-2010, 10:09 PM
Look.. I'm as bummed as anybody. But how is the loss of a sack specialist who is downright weak against the run going to doom our season? Are we a worse team without Elvis? Yep. Are we significantly worse? I just don't see how.

I think more than anything it puts more pressure on a secondary that isn't what it used to be.

JJJ
08-05-2010, 10:28 PM
Here is the Press Conference:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Day-5-McDaniels/c605baa3-24ba-47ea-8674-1b79bac81791

ummm...lip smack....ummmmm....lip smack....ummmm....lip smack....

How do you guys listen to that guy?

snowspot66
08-05-2010, 10:46 PM
I think more than anything it puts more pressure on a secondary that isn't what it used to be.

I don't know about that. Our secondary wasn't very good in 07 or 08. It got better last year and we've got some pretty promising young guys there now. Yeah Champ isn't in his prime but the overall talent around him is better.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2010, 10:53 PM
I think more than anything it puts more pressure on a secondary that isn't what it used to be.

It isn't what it used to be? How so? If anything, it's stronger and deeper than ever.

azbroncfan
08-05-2010, 10:59 PM
I will bet anyone on this board that Jarvis Moss will stup up and get 8 or more sacks. You put up $20 and if Moss gets less than 8 sacks I will pay you $20 ! If he gets 8 sacks you pay me $20, and if he goes for double digits sack, you owe me $30. If he gets 12 or more you pay me $35 and if he hits 15, you pay me $40!

8 sacks is nothing to write home about especially if you get a lot of playing time at the position he will be playing.

ZachKC
08-05-2010, 11:09 PM
I don't know about that. Our secondary wasn't very good in 07 or 08. It got better last year and we've got some pretty promising young guys there now. Yeah Champ isn't in his prime but the overall talent around him is better.

Bailey AND Dawkins are a year older and this line of yours will really throw any young guys into the fire.

SoCalBronco
08-05-2010, 11:40 PM
Bailey AND Dawkins are a year older and this line of yours will really throw any young guys into the fire.

That might be true of the OL, but not the DL. The DL is better than last year's. Jamal Williams...even an old Jamal Williams is better than Ron Fields. Justin Bannan is infinitely better than anything we had at DE last year. The other spot, however, is sort of up in the air. McBean appears to be winning the competition, but he hasn't produced under the lights yet. His spot is probably going to be on par with what was there last year, but the other two spots are much better. The DL will be a decent one.

While they will help Moss and Ayers out a little bit, those guys are still going to have to produce. It's unlikely that those two will be able to produce anything consistent so far as the pass rush goes, but that won't be on the DL. An optimistic goal for Moss and Ayers is about 12-14 sacks combined. A more realistic number might be 10 combined. That's not going to come anywhere close to carrying the water and it will require a heavy dosage of blitzes to compensate. Again, though...that's not on the DL.

Kaylore
08-06-2010, 12:06 AM
I'll be happy if we even make it to .500 by the end of the year. And I don't expect Dumervil to make it back anytime this season. I think this loss is crippling. Absolutely crippling. This is a pass-happy league and if you can't produce pressure, you will lose.

Jason7730
08-06-2010, 12:42 AM
I think more than anything it puts more pressure on a secondary that isn't what it used to be.

Like third in the nfl last yr. in ypg.

Kyle
08-06-2010, 12:45 AM
8 sacks is nothing to write home about especially if you get a lot of playing time at the position he will be playing.

8 sacks is a lot to write home about for someone with less tackles than that in a season.

2

lostknight
08-06-2010, 12:59 AM
You are a Bronco fan, right?


:Broncos:

Yes, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with every single decision that the coaching staff and the FO make. I still strongly disagree with the decision with the coaching staff's move to take away defensive responsibilities from Mike Nolan last year, and of course his departure. Talking about a 4-3 now strikes me as total desperation.

watermock
08-06-2010, 03:53 AM
I'll be happy if we even make it to .500 by the end of the year. And I don't expect Dumervil to make it back anytime this season. I think this loss is crippling. Absolutely crippling. This is a pass-happy league and if you can't produce pressure, you will lose.

Wow.

I expect Wonderboy to go 10-6, after after all, he's had 2 years to get rid of the bad apples, right?

Now with the easiest scheduile in years you claim a victory with 7-9?

WTF makes the AFC so tough? Tell me.

watermock
08-06-2010, 03:57 AM
Yes, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with every single decision that the coaching staff and the FO make. I still strongly disagree with the decision with the coaching staff's move to take away defensive responsibilities from Mike Nolan last year, and of course his departure. Talking about a 4-3 now strikes me as total desperation.

Buy a clue. Nolan left to play for Parcells.

Dennison left to coach for Kubiack.

Turner left to play for Shanahan.

Buy a clue.

ZachKC
08-06-2010, 05:27 AM
Wow.

I expect Wonderboy to go 10-6, after after all, he's had 2 years to get rid of the bad apples, right?

Now with the easiest scheduile in years you claim a victory with 7-9?

WTF makes the AFC so tough? Tell me.

And best players.

Lolad
08-06-2010, 05:35 AM
I will bet anyone on this board that Jarvis Moss will stup up and get 8 or more sacks. You put up $20 and if Moss gets less than 8 sacks I will pay you $20 ! If he gets 8 sacks you pay me $20, and if he goes for double digits sack, you owe me $30. If he gets 12 or more you pay me $35 and if he hits 15, you pay me $40!

I can smell the homerism in you.. LOL!

Beantown Bronco
08-06-2010, 06:43 AM
Football, of all the major sports, is far and away the most team oriented.

Far and away? No way. Baseball is moreso.....or at the VERY least, on par with football in this category.

Take away Favre or Manning and tell me how the Vikings and Colts are looking. Take away the best player from any MLB team and their fortunes will most likely not change near as much.

misturanderson
08-06-2010, 06:52 AM
Far and away? No way. Baseball is moreso.....or at the VERY least, on par with football in this category.

Take away Favre or Manning and tell me how the Vikings and Colts are looking. Take away the best player from any MLB team and their fortunes will most likely not change near as much.

Unless you take away their #1 pitcher.

jhns
08-06-2010, 07:06 AM
Unless you take away their #1 pitcher.

This.

As for the thread topic, who do the Vikings, or some other team that needs a QB, have that they could trade? There aren't any good options in FA right now. Teams have filled out camp rosters. If you are still not on a team, you aren't very good. If we really want to fix the position, we have to depend on guys that are here or we will need to trade for a good player.

As for the people already using injuries as an excuse for this team to not improve, that is a crap excuse. Injuries are not an excuse. I went over it in another thread but it is easy to prove Bowlen doesn't think they are a good excuse. Every team has them. It has been McDaniels message all along that no one player is that important. You guys should learn to listen to those in charge. McDaniels is still going to have to find a way to improve this team or he is really going to be on the hot seat as the end of his contract nears.

lostknight
08-06-2010, 07:19 AM
This.

As for the thread topic, who do the Vikings, or some other team that needs a QB, have that they could trade? There aren't any good options in FA right now. Teams have filled out camp rosters. If you are still not on a team, you aren't very good. If we really want to fix the position, we have to depend on guys that are here or we will need to trade for a good player.


I think there is a non-trivial chance that is Brady Quinn puts up some decent film at the first pre-season game, some teams might come knocking.

bronclvr
08-06-2010, 07:34 AM
I'll be happy if we even make it to .500 by the end of the year. And I don't expect Dumervil to make it back anytime this season. I think this loss is crippling. Absolutely crippling. This is a pass-happy league and if you can't produce pressure, you will lose.

I agree 1000%-I'm thinking of taking up crocheting to pass the time this Winter-:-/

meangene
08-06-2010, 07:43 AM
I think switching to a 4-3 over Doom's injury is a panic move. We are a 3-4 team and our players are learning to play, and utilize their skills, in that system. How does moving to a 4-3 get more pass rush for us? What additional pass rushers get on the field in a 4-3? In reality, the 3-4 gives us more ability to disguise our pass rush and relies less on our players simply winning one-on-one battles. Same with moving Haggan outside. He is clearly a naturally ILB and is displaying that in camp. Why move him back outside? He is not a natural OLB or pass rusher. Who does that move get on the field that helps in the pass rush? Really just gets another ILB on the field. No, we need to stay in the 3-4 and guys like Ayers and Moss will simply have to step up their play - that is what good teams do when front line players go down. Maybe someone like Kirlew or Atkins steps up. Getting Reid back healthy could be a big boost too. We have to consider the long-term as well. Next year we are back to a 3-4 team and will have wasted a year of development by switching. Stick with the system.

Chris
08-06-2010, 08:11 AM
Buy a clue. Nolan left to play for Parcells.

Dennison left to coach for Kubiack.

Turner left to play for Shanahan.

Buy a clue.

As far as I know you don't buy them you get them for free.

Tombstone RJ
08-06-2010, 08:16 AM
I think switching to a 4-3 over Doom's injury is a panic move. We are a 3-4 team and our players are learning to play, and utilize their skills, in that system. How does moving to a 4-3 get more pass rush for us? What additional pass rushers get on the field in a 4-3? In reality, the 3-4 gives us more ability to disguise our pass rush and relies less on our players simply winning one-on-one battles. Same with moving Haggan outside. He is clearly a naturally ILB and is displaying that in camp. Why move him back outside? He is not a natural OLB or pass rusher. Who does that move get on the field that helps in the pass rush? Really just gets another ILB on the field. No, we need to stay in the 3-4 and guys like Ayers and Moss will simply have to step up their play - that is what good teams do when front line players go down. Maybe someone like Kirlew or Atkins steps up. Getting Reid back healthy could be a big boost too. We have to consider the long-term as well. Next year we are back to a 3-4 team and will have wasted a year of development by switching. Stick with the system.

McD said that switching to a 4-3 is one of the options, not the only option. This defense is deeper than it's been in a long, long time. Losing doom is bad but it's not the end of the world. The Broncos will still be able to stop the run and yes, that means opposing offenses will throw the ball more. That in no way means opposing offenses will score more TDs.

dbfan21
08-06-2010, 08:17 AM
ummm...lip smack....ummmmm....lip smack....ummmm....lip smack....

How do you guys listen to that guy?

speaking of "ummm...lip smack...ummm...lip smack", tell your mom thanks for dropping by last night.

Los Broncos
08-06-2010, 08:17 AM
As far as I know you don't buy them you get them for free.

:rofl:

Cito Pelon
08-06-2010, 08:26 AM
It's crushing, but its not anyone's fault. These things happen and they can happen in any drill. It was and still is the right move for the FO to have re-signed him. You can't go back and say "oh we can't sign any long term deals because of the injury possibility". Well....anything's possible, that's not the issue. The only time injuries are really relevant to contract discussions are when the player has a significant injury history. That wasn't really the case with Doom, so they did the right thing. The market would bear nothing less. If you adopt a general strategy of not paying long term deals just on the possibility of injury rather than an individualized analysis of the player history you will NEVER be able to re-sign anyone that's important. So they did the right thing and its still the right thing. He'll be back, probably in December.

It will be difficult to have success against the pass without him unless we're going to blitz alot. That's probably the best solution. The run D doesn't suffer with this development, its the pass that's the issue. They'll just have to blitz more and hope an improved Jarvis Moss can contribute say 6 or 7 sacks. You can't go back to a 4-3, IMO. We've spent a year and a half trying to get 3-4 personnel. Our DL are basically 3-4 personnel. You can't play games with the formations. You have to get GOOD at something. You can't be constantly doing 10 different things and expect to get good at it. Just stick with what you have....we have a pretty beefy DL, so hopefully they'll take some heat off of whoever's at WOLB.

If we can just stay in contention till December...just hover around .500 if possible, we can still do something when he gets back, but we'll see. It's going to be difficult to accomplish that. At the very least, they can afford absolutely no more injuries to any other starters. Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. And I'm hoping to see DJ return to practice as he's been out a couple days with apparently something minor (but not disclosed).

Agreed.

Popps
08-06-2010, 08:44 AM
Agreed.

I agree, too... but you've got to be able to generate a pass rush, somehow.

I hope Ayers can emerge. That's our best hope right now, outside of some sort of miracle trade.

Cito Pelon
08-06-2010, 08:44 AM
I will bet anyone on this board that Jarvis Moss will stup up and get 8 or more sacks. You put up $20 and if Moss gets less than 8 sacks I will pay you $20 ! If he gets 8 sacks you pay me $20, and if he goes for double digits sack, you owe me $30. If he gets 12 or more you pay me $35 and if he hits 15, you pay me $40!

I will not take that bet. I'm not gonna bet against him this year. I haven't seen him in person at TC, but the pics I've seen he's really muscled up his upper body. It appears Moss has stepped it up a little bit and wants to make a name for himself.

Cito Pelon
08-06-2010, 08:56 AM
I'll be happy if we even make it to .500 by the end of the year. And I don't expect Dumervil to make it back anytime this season. I think this loss is crippling. Absolutely crippling. This is a pass-happy league and if you can't produce pressure, you will lose.

Let's wait til preseason is over to say stuff like that. Let's see how the team actually looks sans Elvis before getting all down in the dumps.

Pardon me if my relentless optimism is annoying, I just can't help it. I blame Ronald Reagan, the epitome of relentless optimism.

Drek
08-06-2010, 09:22 AM
To me the 4-3 talk is likely more focused on our ability to have either Moss or Ayers put their hand on the ground and play like we're a 4-3 at our discretion, not a true full time 4-3 front.

Even talking about a 4-3 makes me think that McDaniels is loving what he sees out of Woodyard, so the shift likely wouldn't be a real 4-3 front, as opposed to a passing downs shift that gets Woodyard in as the weak side OLB next to DJ and Haggan.

This is what McDaniels is all about though. Find a way to get your best talent on the field regardless of how you have to do it. If Moss and/or Ayers really impresses at OLB in coverage then we don't even worry about it. But if they don't look reliable operating in space then we go with some combination of them as a rush OLB/DE while Haggan, Akin Adoyele, and Woodyard patch up whatever needs are left at LB.

This is the chance for Moss and Ayers to step up though. Martindale will now need to go with a more balanced pass rushing scheme and both of them will get a lot of opportunities.

azbroncfan
08-06-2010, 09:29 AM
8 sacks is a lot to write home about for someone with less tackles than that in a season.

2

I'd be blown away if Moss is even the starter. I'll bet Haggan slides over to Elvis's spot and the guy from the dolphins starts at ILB.

TheReverend
08-06-2010, 09:34 AM
I'd be blown away if Moss is even the starter. I'll bet Haggan slides over to Elvis's spot and the guy from the dolphins starts at ILB.

Not a chance in hell.

TheReverend
08-06-2010, 09:35 AM
Not a chance in hell.

To add to this, it's infinitely more likely that Ayers would pop into Elvis's spot and Haggan shift back to that side with Akin in the middle.

azbroncfan
08-06-2010, 09:39 AM
To add to this, it's infinitely more likely that Ayers would pop into Elvis's spot and Haggan shift back to that side with Akin in the middle.

Whatever you want to call it but my bet is the starting OLB's are Haggan and Ayers week one barring any further injuries.

Cito Pelon
08-06-2010, 09:41 AM
To me the 4-3 talk is likely more focused on our ability to have either Moss or Ayers put their hand on the ground and play like we're a 4-3 at our discretion, not a true full time 4-3 front.

Even talking about a 4-3 makes me think that McDaniels is loving what he sees out of Woodyard, so the shift likely wouldn't be a real 4-3 front, as opposed to a passing downs shift that gets Woodyard in as the weak side OLB next to DJ and Haggan.

This is what McDaniels is all about though. Find a way to get your best talent on the field regardless of how you have to do it. If Moss and/or Ayers really impresses at OLB in coverage then we don't even worry about it. But if they don't look reliable operating in space then we go with some combination of them as a rush OLB/DE while Haggan, Akin Adoyele, and Woodyard patch up whatever needs are left at LB.

This is the chance for Moss and Ayers to step up though. Martindale will now need to go with a more balanced pass rushing scheme and both of them will get a lot of opportunities.

Yeah, I can see that. But SoCal's point saying concentrate on getting GOOD at the 3-4 is solid, don't play around too much with different D formations. Groom everybody to playing in the 3-4, grind it into them.

Woodyard will get his chances in the 3-4. He's a dynamic guy, the coaches will get him on the field. Woodyard reminds me a little bit of Tom Jackson.

TheReverend
08-06-2010, 09:42 AM
Whatever you want to call it but my bet is the starting OLB's are Haggan and Ayers week one barring any further injuries.

If you're that low on Moss, don't discount Reid who played pretty well in limited action last season.

azbroncfan
08-06-2010, 09:44 AM
If you're that low on Moss, don't discount Reid who played pretty well in limited action last season.

Yes I would bet Reid would beat him out too. I wouldn't rule out a training camp cut or signing like Adalius Thomas either although I think his tank is empty.

Cito Pelon
08-06-2010, 09:47 AM
To add to this, it's infinitely more likely that Ayers would pop into Elvis's spot and Haggan shift back to that side with Akin in the middle.

I doubt the staff really wants to move Haggan back outside. There has to be a better solution than that. It's only been one day since the pec that changed the world, so we'll have to wait and see how the staff reacts. Hell, it's only day five of TC, long way to go til the opener.

oubronco
08-06-2010, 09:51 AM
is Woodyard to small to play the outside? He seems to have a high motor

TheReverend
08-06-2010, 09:53 AM
is Woodyard to small to play the outside? He seems to have a high motor

Yes

oubronco
08-06-2010, 09:55 AM
Yes

Well is there anyone available that would be worth signing or trading for maybe say a backup or something

TheReverend
08-06-2010, 10:08 AM
Well is there anyone available that would be worth signing or trading for maybe say a backup or something

Depending on how fast Reid gets off the PuP and the severity of Moss's injury, there may be no need.

TheReverend
08-06-2010, 10:10 AM
Dark horse candidate with Elvis out: Jamie Kirlew

If some campers could try and make some brief notes of how he's performing thus far, that'd be swell.

Captain 'Dre
08-06-2010, 10:14 AM
Some ****ed up ****. The ass-hats we send out of town get paid/go back to their hometown teams, and the loyal one gets paid but his career ****ed up.

Excuse me, but I think your '*' key is sticking a bit.

Try dabbing a Q-tip with rubbing alcohol, and swab the creases around the 8/* key. Good luck!

ScottXray
08-06-2010, 10:36 AM
Moss stepping up and actually playing well would be the biggest surprise
in the NFL this year.

He's added beef and muscle....and now is up to almost 260# on his 6'7"
frame?....So Now he's only skinny, instead of skinny as a rail.

On the other hand it is a contract year so he will be better than he has been.

If Doom deserved to be paid for his underpaid years, Moss deserves to play for free for the next 2 years (to pay back the money he already got.)

anyway the injuries we keep getting are just "Shyt happens" ....but I wonder why we are having so many... ( an no I don't think it is the coaches fault...like someone around here.)

Maybe there is something to all the Tebow blasphemy ( more likely than coaching)

My $20 bet on the Broncos to win the AFC in Vegas is looking pretty shaky...(but it always was).