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View Full Version : How to kill your players before the season starts..


lostknight
08-05-2010, 10:34 AM
It was pointed out over and over last year that the consequences of a training camp where you are in pads and full contact the entire time is higher levels of injury. We dodged all the bullets last year, but this year it's already been devastating.

From the injuries to Knowshon and C-Buck the first day, on the same drill (which clearly indicate that the players were not ready for the drill before hand), to the huge possibly season-destroying injury to Doom, we are now in a situation where the top talent on the team is now going into the season under-prepared, injured or missing it completely.

In the past, I would completely trust Bobby Turner to have the best practices and drills for his players. The new coach? Who knows? Do we really want to be trusting McDaniel's kid brother, who has no experience with our QBs? And what exactly is it that Tuten has having over the Broncos FO to keep him around? The team has suffered late collapses three years in a row, due to conditioning and injuries, and this year we are going into the season in a bad state, which the front of our season is unbelievably nasty. Don't get me started. What some reputable players have had to say about his decisions border on unethical and malpractice.

And why hasn't anyone challenged the pace of camp, given the damage it's doing to players. Yes, there are freak injuries, but now we have three points, enough to clearly establish a trajectory, and that trajectory might just wipe out the team before the season even starts.Of course you need contact drills and pads to get started, but the rooster has finally come home to roost on McDaniel's decision to push the hardest possible camp.

2KBack
08-05-2010, 10:36 AM
wait? football is played in pads with contact?

lostknight
08-05-2010, 10:37 AM
wait? football is played in pads with contact?

Of course it is. And apparently we have set out a whole bunch of players not in condition to deal with that reality, and then done it over and over and over.

bfoflcommish
08-05-2010, 10:37 AM
**** someone alert the NFL, i mean since there wasnt ever an injury in no cotact camps....oh wait...never mind

gyldenlove
08-05-2010, 10:37 AM
So you suggest that we do not hold any game situation practices? That will work well I am sure.....

bfoflcommish
08-05-2010, 10:38 AM
Of course it is. And apparently we have set out a whole bunch of players not in condition to deal with that reality, and then done it over and over and over.



blame the player not the practice

Rabb
08-05-2010, 10:39 AM
you really are an idiot

2KBack
08-05-2010, 10:39 AM
Of course it is. And apparently we have set out a whole bunch of players not in condition to deal with that reality, and then done it over and over and over.

you mean one?

Clady= non football
Moreno= non contact hamstring
Buck= made of glass
Doom= football injury (that's the one!)

lostknight
08-05-2010, 10:39 AM
So you suggest that we do not hold any game situation practices? That will work well I am sure.....

Nope, I am suggesting that like every other team in the league, we don't put them in pads and encourage full contact every single practice, in excess of what's actually required.

Retire #30!!!
08-05-2010, 10:40 AM
It's football dude you can't be serious. Three of the injuries weren't even related to contact.

lostknight
08-05-2010, 10:42 AM
blame the player not the practice


Why? It's the coaching staff's responsibility to come up with ways to prep this team, without a unnecessary amount of injury. Buckhalter and Moreno were injured in the same first practice of camp. Droom's probably out for the season, and we know Matt Willis is trying to take people's heads off.

I'm not rooting for the Shanahan system here, but something between the two extremes of not prepping your players for a full season and killing all your players before the season starts would be good.

dbfan4life
08-05-2010, 10:42 AM
Contact in camp should be reduced to a game of two hand touch - below the waist. That'll prepare us for the real thing.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-05-2010, 10:43 AM
Don't know if anyone else remembers this, but there were complaints in the Shanny era that they weren't doing enough hitting, that they were too soft in practice, and it translated to more in-game injuries and lots of missed tackles by the defense. Anyone recall this?

Super-duper glad that people on a message board know more about football training and practice techniques than any coaching staff we've ever had.

What a ****ing moron.

azbroncfan
08-05-2010, 10:44 AM
Let's just play flag football.

Jason in LA
08-05-2010, 10:45 AM
Lostknight, I'm curious, have you played tackle football and at what level? And have you coached before? Because you're talking like you've run a program before.

It sucks to lose players in practice, but that's part of the game. Teams have to go full contact in practice. If they don't then they'll be soft come game time.

Now, that doesn't mean go full speed contact all the time, but at times there has to be full contact. That's a part of football at every level.

lostknight
08-05-2010, 10:45 AM
Contact in camp should be reduced to a game of two hand touch - below the waist. That'll prepare us for the real thing.

Again, no one is calling for that, but some basic precautions and a realization that the coaching staff is responsible for injuries would go a long way to moderate our training camps so we don't possibly loose the season before the season even starts.

Our defense was always going to be problematic with Nolan's departure. Now the only proven performer is out, probably for the season. Heads should roll on this one.

lostknight
08-05-2010, 10:47 AM
Now, that doesn't mean go full speed contact all the time, but at times there has to be full contact. That's a part of football at every level.

Of course they do. But it doesn't mean that every single practice should be that way - as it was last year, and as it is this year so far. The key operative word here is "at times" and this coaching staff interpreted that to mean "all the time"

But also note, that's only a single point in the large list I bring up - poor conditioning, a medical staff players don't trust, and coaches who are inexperienced all played as big, if not a bigger role in this debacle.

snowspot66
08-05-2010, 10:48 AM
Has everybody forgotten how these injuries occured? Moreno's injury was him turning up field. No contact.

Dum's injury was in a one on one drill.

This wasn't a case of being too physical. Just really ****ty luck.

diehardbroncosfan
08-05-2010, 10:49 AM
Again, no one is calling for that, but some basic precautions and a realization that the coaching staff is responsible for injuries would go a long way to moderate our training camps so we don't possibly loose the season before the season even starts.

Our defense was always going to be problematic with Nolan's departure. Now the only proven performer is out, probably for the season. Heads should roll on this one.

Only proven performer? What in the world are Champ Bailey, Brian Dawkins, and DJ Williams, all of whom have or should have been pro-bowlers? And, that's not even including Mario Haggan, Andre Goodman, and Renaldo Hill who were extremely solid last year, Jamal Williams, Justin Bannan, and Jarvis Green (all three who have been good to great on other teams), and young players such as Ayers, Moss, Woodyard, McBath, Smith, and Cox who have great potential.

crush17
08-05-2010, 10:49 AM
oh jesus christ leave it out....

enjolras
08-05-2010, 10:49 AM
Dude, injuries happen. The Broncos are hardly the first team to lose a star player to a training camp injury. It sucks. I'd MUCH rather have a team that's been physically training to handle the rigors of a NFL season.

Ayers said he wants to be dominate, well now he has his chance.

Los Broncos
08-05-2010, 10:50 AM
True, training camp should be flag football from now on.

The commish should look into this.

PRBronco
08-05-2010, 10:50 AM
you really are an idiot

.

Mr.Meanie
08-05-2010, 10:51 AM
we talking 'bout practice?

BMarsh615
08-05-2010, 10:51 AM
Knowshon wasn't even touched when he got hurt. And Dumervil was in a 1 on 1 blocking drill that EVERY team does. They are fluke injuries.

lostknight
08-05-2010, 10:51 AM
Only proven performer? What in the world are Champ Bailey, Brian Dawkins, and DJ Williams, all of whom have or should have been pro-bowlers?

DJ is not a proven performer, his performance has been all over the board year to year. Fair enough about Dawkins and Champ.

Bottom line is still the same, we are royally screwed unless Moss and Ayers decide to actually show and play.

lostknight
08-05-2010, 10:52 AM
Knowshon wasn't even touched when he got hurt. And Dumervil was in a 1 on 1 blocking drill that EVERY team does. They are fluke injuries.

There not fluke injuries. They are techniques done wrong, or asking for things that the body is not in condition to deliver. Both of these are damning indictments on the coaches ability to either team or observe where the players are at.

Jason in LA
08-05-2010, 10:53 AM
Of course they do. But it doesn't mean that every single practice should be that way - as it was last year, and as it is this year so far. The key operative word here is "at times" and this coaching staff interpreted that to mean "all the time"

But also note, that's only a single point in the large list I bring up - poor conditioning, a medical staff players don't trust, and coaches who are inexperienced all played as big, if not a bigger role in this debacle.

You didn't answer my question. At what level have you played and/or coached tackle football.

You say that they are inexperienced. Dude, how can you get a job at that level if you're inexperienced?!?!

You say poor conditioning. They spent damn near the entire offseason in a conditioning program. They are ready for the drills. It's silly to think that they aren't.

Mr.Meanie
08-05-2010, 10:53 AM
Of course they do. But it doesn't mean that every single practice should be that way - as it was last year, and as it is this year so far. The key operative word here is "at times" and this coaching staff interpreted that to mean "all the time"

But also note, that's only a single point in the large list I bring up - poor conditioning, a medical staff players don't trust, and coaches who are inexperienced all played as big, if not a bigger role in this debacle.

wow...

TailgateNut
08-05-2010, 10:54 AM
Contact in camp should be reduced to a game of two hand touch - below the waist. That'll prepare us for the real thing.

....with little orange and blue velcro flags...Hilarious!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-05-2010, 10:56 AM
There not fluke injuries. They are techniques done wrong, or asking for things that the body is not in condition to deliver. Both of these are damning indictments on the coaches ability to either team or observe where the players are at.

Only if you're a ****ing idiot.

HAT
08-05-2010, 10:57 AM
Only proven performer? What in the world are Champ Bailey, Brian Dawkins, and DJ Williams, all of whom have or should have been pro-bowlers? And, that's not even including Mario Haggan, Andre Goodman, and Renaldo Hill who were extremely solid last year, Jamal Williams, Justin Bannan, and Jarvis Green (all three who have been good to great on other teams), and young players such as Ayers, Moss, Woodyard, McBath, Smith, and Cox who have great potential.

Dude...It's lostknight. Just one of several posters who make **** up to try and discredit the current staff whenever possible.

lostknight
08-05-2010, 10:57 AM
You say that they are inexperienced. Dude, how can you get a job at that level if you're inexperienced?!?!


Good question. Number of previous NFL jobs that McDaniels brother has had in the NFL as a coach: Zero. Number of Ben McDaniels Brothers who are head coaches: One, number of NFL jobs Ben now has: One. You do the math.


You say poor conditioning. They spent damn near the entire offseason in a conditioning program. They are ready for the drills. It's silly to think that they aren't.

The evidence at this point is strongly indicating otherwise.

Jason in LA
08-05-2010, 11:01 AM
Good question. Number of previous NFL jobs that McDaniels brother has had in the NFL as a coach: Zero. Number of Brothers who are head coaches: One, number of jobs McDaniel's brother now has: One. You do the math.



The evidence at this point is strongly indicating otherwise.

Dude, again, what level of tackle football have you played and/or coached?!?!

And are you basing your point only on injuries? Have you attended all of the Broncos practices, as well as practices from other teams, to truly gauge whether or not they are working too hard? Or are you just talking out of your ass?

TailgateNut
08-05-2010, 11:02 AM
Good question. Number of previous NFL jobs that McDaniels brother has had in the NFL as a coach: Zero. Number of Ben McDaniels Brothers who are head coaches: One, number of NFL jobs Ben now has: One. You do the math.



The evidence at this point is strongly indicating otherwise.


All I can say is: DUDE!Hilarious!

Rabb
08-05-2010, 11:02 AM
http://rlv.zcache.com/die_in_a_fire_d_i_a_f_tshirt-d235542982741623305aep9a_325.jpg

Rabb
08-05-2010, 11:02 AM
http://images.cryhavok.org/d/15018-1/LOLcat+-+Die+in+a+Fire.jpg

Garcia Bronco
08-05-2010, 11:03 AM
Leg injuries and hammy injuries have nothing to do with wearing pads

Rabb
08-05-2010, 11:03 AM
http://faroutshirts.com/images/DieInAFire-Preview.png

Jason in LA
08-05-2010, 11:03 AM
The evidence at this point is strongly indicating otherwise.

You do realize that athletes in extremely great shape pull muscles?

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2010, 11:04 AM
Good question. Number of previous NFL jobs that McDaniels brother has had in the NFL as a coach: Zero. Number of Brothers who are head coaches: One, number of jobs McDaniel's brother now has: One. You do the math.

That's math? Really? Ok, I'm a little slow so can you do the math again?


The evidence at this point is strongly indicating otherwise.

So, let me get this right: players go through a rigorous off season conditioning program and still suffer injuries, right? So in essence you are saying McD is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

I now understand where you are coming from. You sit soundly in the "I want McD to fail" group so you can prove to yourself how right you were about how wrong Bowlen was to fire Shanny.

Got it, thanks!

Steve Sewell
08-05-2010, 11:06 AM
you mean one?

Clady= non football
Moreno= non contact hamstring
Buck= made of glass
Doom= football injury (that's the one!)

I'm sure McDaniels and the training staff have trouble sleeping at night wondering how they could have prevented such calamities. Obviously Doom's injury was the result of wearing shoulderpads. Obviously.

HEAV
08-05-2010, 11:07 AM
you mean one?

Clady= non football
Moreno= non contact hamstring
Buck= made of glass
Doom= football injury (that's the one!)

I was going to say the same damn thing!

Both Moreno and C-Buck where non-contact!


Some people just don't undestand... This team was soft under Shanny (whom now is trying to be a hard ass).

Injuries are going to happen in football (see Tom Brady) it can happen in camp or during the regular season, but the injuries are going to happen and teams need to have depth and be prepared for losing players.

lostknight
08-05-2010, 11:08 AM
Dude, again, what level of tackle football have you played and/or coached?!?!

As many as you have.


And are you basing your point only on injuries? Have you attended all of the Broncos practices, as well as practices from other teams, to truly gauge whether or not they are working too hard? Or are you just talking out of your ass?

Seriously, the only debating point you have left is appeal to authority? We know that last year, the Broncos held more practices in pads, full speed, full contact then any other team. We also know that every single practice in this camp has been full contact. We also know that players in the past came to denver to play, partially because of the fact that they didn't do as much of a gruel as other camps, which are still less then what McDaniels did last year. We also know that in the championship years (which may or may not be a valid comparison, due to them being a long ass time ago) we didn't run camp like this. We know we have a medical staff that has been sued for not disclosing injuries to players. We know that we have late season collapses that are injury and conditioning based. It's a aweful lot of correlation to not think there is some causation.

Or sorry, should I just post "die in a fire" and pretend that that's a logical argument?

Steve Sewell
08-05-2010, 11:09 AM
coaching staff is responsible for injuries

Goodness gracious...you really are retarded.

Rabb
08-05-2010, 11:09 AM
it's as logical as the crap you are spewing

unless, wait...are you calling me out for spamming your spam?

lostknight
08-05-2010, 11:11 AM
Injuries are going to happen in football (see Tom Brady) it can happen in camp or during the regular season, but the injuries are going to happen and teams need to have depth and be prepared for losing players.

True enough, but when you see the same cycle of critical players consistently getting soft-tissue injuries, players going down on the exact same practice, and inexperienced coaches, it's not illegitimate to wonder if they know what the hell they are doing.

Rabb
08-05-2010, 11:13 AM
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:3MnSmsf9TNuEdM:http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac347/atiecay/topic3.gif&t=1

lostknight
08-05-2010, 11:15 AM
So, let me get this right: players go through a rigorous off season conditioning program and still suffer injuries, right? So in essence you are saying McD is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.


Again, you are going to extremes. That's not what I am arguing. We run the most strenuous camp in the NFL (or did last year, and by all indications are doing so again). That strain results in injuries. Pure and simple. It's a balancing act, and so far, we don't appear to be balancing it well.

I now understand where you are coming from. You sit soundly in the "I want McD to fail" group so you can prove to yourself how right you were about how wrong Bowlen was to fire Shanny.


No, I want them to at least try and get healthy players to the starting line. Ive said time and time again that firing Shanahan was the right move. Hiring McDaniels? Jury is still out at this point. I want this team to succedd. If McDaniels can make that happen (and so far he has not) then rah-rah. If he can't, then don't expect me to have his back just because he's Belicheck's pretty boy.

Los Broncos
08-05-2010, 11:15 AM
Wow this place is going crazy.

Rabb
08-05-2010, 11:16 AM
Again, you are going to extremes. That's not what I am arguing. We run the most strenuous camp in the NFL (or did last year, and by all indications are doing so again). That strain results in injuries. Pure and simple. It's a balancing act, and so far, we don't appear to be balancing it well.


No, I want them to at least try and get healthy players to the starting line. Ive said time and time again that firing Shanahan was the right move. Hiring McDaniels? Jury is still out at this point. I want this team to succedd. If McDaniels can make that happen (and so far he has not) then rah-rah. If he can't, then don't expect me to have his back just because he's Belicheck's pretty boy.

and of course, you can prove that right?

http://500motivators.com/plog-content/thumbs/motivate/me/large/48-plan-b-kill-it-with-fire.jpg

Jason in LA
08-05-2010, 11:17 AM
Good question. Number of previous NFL jobs that McDaniels brother has had in the NFL as a coach: Zero. Number of Ben McDaniels Brothers who are head coaches: One, number of NFL jobs Ben now has: One. You do the math.





So... you're blaming the QB coach for the amount of contact there is in practice and for a DE and a pair of RBs getting hurt? ;D

BlaK-Argentina
08-05-2010, 11:19 AM
Haha, this thread is actually funny. Makes the news (****ing awful mother****ing news) a BIT easier to swallow.

You just can't be serious... really, admit it.

Hey everyone, he's kidding!!!

Kaylore
08-05-2010, 11:19 AM
This has nothing to do with contact. It might have something to do with how they condition, though. I think they do too much weight lifting and muscle isolation and not enough exercise practicing full range of motion, motion used in playing football. This means the muscle develops to move weights back and forth and then when they walk on the field and start running, spinning and juking, the soft tissue isn't used to it and tears. That's my theory based on not knowing anything. lol

Rabb
08-05-2010, 11:19 AM
So... you're blaming the QB coach for the amount of contact there is in practice and for a DE and a pair of RBs getting hurt? ;D

brilliant isn't it?

here doucheknight, this may help you

http://rgr-static1.tangentlabs.co.uk/images/bau/97803121/9780312144777/0/0/plain/how-to-argue-and-win-every-time-at-home-at-work-in-court-everywhere-every-day.jpg

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2010, 11:19 AM
Seriously, the only debating point you have left is appeal to authority? We know that last year, the Broncos held more practices in pads, full speed, full contact then any other team. We also know that every single practice in this camp has been full contact. We also know that players in the past came to denver to play, partially because of the fact that they didn't do as much of a gruel as other camps, which are still less then what McDaniels did last year. We also know that in the championship years (which may or may not be a valid comparison, due to them being a long ass time ago) we didn't run camp like this. We know we have a medical staff that has been sued for not disclosing injuries to players. We know that we have late season collapses that are injury and conditioning based. It's a aweful lot of correlation to not think there is some causation.

We don't know that is what happened last year. What we do know is that the offensive line was mush due to a new scheme and a small interior oline and that the defensive line did wear down against the run. Both those issues were addressed in the offseason.

As for the late season slides under Shanny, yah, I think poor conditioning had a lot to do with it. However, under McD, toughness and conditioning are being emphasized so that the late season slide will not continue.

However, you are making a huge assumption to compare last year's collapse to the many late season collapses of Shanhan's teams.

Maybe you're just panicing...

Jason in LA
08-05-2010, 11:22 AM
As many as you have.





You still haven't answered the question in any way. You don't know how much football I have played. I'm certainly not going to act like I've played in the NFL. But I'm still curious about the level of tackle football you've played.

bfoflcommish
08-05-2010, 11:23 AM
You still haven't answered the question in any way. You don't know how much football I have played. I'm certainly not going to act like I've played in the NFL. But I'm still curious about the level of tackle football you've played.

he once scored 4 touchdowns on a bum ankle (his coaches fault by the way), in the lakewood city sandlot league.

TonyR
08-05-2010, 11:24 AM
Suffice it to say that this thread did not go well for lostknight. But I guess I give the guy credit for hanging in there in spite of the pummeling he's taking. He must have been conditioned for this full contact forum.

lostknight
08-05-2010, 11:26 AM
We don't know that is what happened last year. What we do know is that the offensive line was mush due to a new scheme and a small interior oline and that the defensive line did wear down against the run. Both those issues were addressed in the offseason.

As for the late season slides under Shanny, yah, I think poor conditioning had a lot to do with it. However, under McD, toughness and conditioning are being emphasized so that the late season slide will not continue.

However, you are making a huge assumption to compare last year's collapse to the many late season collapses of Shanhan's teams.

Maybe you're just panicing...

Actually, Football Outsiders did a great job pointing to the late season introduction of Polumbus into the starting line up as being the single worst personal move in the NFL last year. That was due to injury.

ColoradoDarin
08-05-2010, 11:27 AM
brilliant isn't it?

here doucheknight, this may help you

http://rgr-static1.tangentlabs.co.uk/images/bau/97803121/9780312144777/0/0/plain/how-to-argue-and-win-every-time-at-home-at-work-in-court-everywhere-every-day.jpg

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6Xywqv1cDH8&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6Xywqv1cDH8&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


This message is hidden because lostknight is on your ignore list.

Rabb
08-05-2010, 11:29 AM
Actually, Football Outsiders did a great job pointing to the late season introduction of Polumbus into the starting line up as being the single worst personal move in the NFL last year. That was due to injury.

I am still waiting for proof on We run the most strenuous camp in the NFL (or did last year, and by all indications are doing so again)

link would be great, or some kind of quote

I am sure you have it, I just cannot imagine you pulling something out of your ass like that

BroncoDoom
08-05-2010, 11:40 AM
Tuten and Greek need to go. There is a history and pattern of these type of injuries and conditioning issues that go back as far as these guys have been here. I am not saying Dumervil's injury was related to this, but where there is smoke there is usually fire.

FantomForce
08-05-2010, 11:42 AM
F***

hades
08-05-2010, 11:56 AM
If they would only study film until the day of the actual game, none of this would ever happen.

bfoflcommish
08-05-2010, 12:04 PM
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/695728450/me_at_game_crop_normal.JPG (http://twitter.com/PostBroncos) PostBroncos (http://twitter.com/PostBroncos)

Amen, Mason. RT @MaxBroncos (http://twitter.com/MaxBroncos): I've seen the drill in which Dumervil was injured in 8 diff. camps since '97. EVERYONE DOES IT.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-05-2010, 12:09 PM
http://static.reelmovienews.com/images/gallery/uncle-rico-picture.jpg
= lostknight

cmhargrove
08-05-2010, 12:18 PM
Why? It's the coaching staff's responsibility to come up with ways to prep this team, without a unnecessary amount of injury. Buckhalter and Moreno were injured in the same first practice of camp. Droom's probably out for the season, and we know Matt Willis is trying to take people's heads off.

I'm not rooting for the Shanahan system here, but something between the two extremes of not prepping your players for a full season and killing all your players before the season starts would be good.

Holy ****! You think that an NFL running back under a multi-million dollar contract can't run a flare route out of the backfield? That's too harsh for them?

Matt Willis is fighting for his professional career in this camp, and he weighs as much as a high school ballerina. Props to him for practicing with heart. Alphonso laughed it off, but you think it's too much.

Maybe you need to watch MLS for a change. American Football is brutal. You don't prepare for it for playing soft, or you will really get hurt come game time. We all share your frustration, but now we get to develop some young talent. We also get to see how good of a coach we have to deal with the adversity of multiple key injuries.

Just sit back and enjoy the season, you might be surprised who steps up.

RaiderH8r
08-05-2010, 12:19 PM
wait? football is played in pads with contact?

You wouldn't know it by the way the NFL treats QBs, but yes, for the rest of the guys on the field, there is contact.

RaiderH8r
08-05-2010, 12:22 PM
I hate McKid as much as anybody and even I'm not willing to throw these on him. Tuten on the other hand, being the strength and conditioning coach, has a long history of players who have been bitten by the injury bug. I do question his techniques and methods for keeping players' bodies and minds in football shape to with stand the rigors of the game.

Full contact practice is what these guys need. It's good to get contact. I believe in the maxim, "You play like you practice" so we needed to get tough. But Tuten...that guy.. I don't know.

Rock Chalk
08-05-2010, 12:38 PM
This thread might have substance if most of the injuries we have taken this offseason came in full contact practices.

But only 1 of the variety of injuries were caused by contact practice so it really makes the entire point of the thread retarded and ill conceived.

Rohirrim
08-05-2010, 12:40 PM
Holy ****! You think that an NFL running back under a multi-million dollar contract can't run a flare route out of the backfield? That's too harsh for them?

Matt Willis is fighting for his professional career in this camp, and he weighs as much as a high school ballerina. Props to him for practicing with heart. Alphonso laughed it off, but you think it's too much.

Maybe you need to watch MLS for a change. American Football is brutal. You don't prepare for it for playing soft, or you will really get hurt come game time. We all share your frustration, but now we get to develop some young talent. We also get to see how good of a coach we have to deal with the adversity of multiple key injuries.

Just sit back and enjoy the season, you might be surprised who steps up.

The teams that go the longest always seem to be the ones who practice hardest.

Polster60
08-05-2010, 12:48 PM
Lostknight, check day 3 buddy. The coaching staff had the players practice that day without pads (with the exception of the rookies and a few of the other younger players). Today is day 5 of training camp correct?? So the players have had to practice 4 out of the 5 days in pads. In high school we practiced in full pads for two (sometimes 3) practices a day, for two weeks. These are professional athletes that have been training and conditioning since february. Sometimes injuries happen. football is a game based on power, strength, agility, and brute force. If you don't practice hard you won't play hard. McD I hope you don't change a thing.

Rabb
08-05-2010, 12:50 PM
We run the most strenuous camp in the NFL (or did last year, and by all indications are doing so again)

just checking in to see if you found that proof yet buddy, I was away at lunch

thanks!

gyldenlove
08-05-2010, 01:07 PM
Nope, I am suggesting that like every other team in the league, we don't put them in pads and encourage full contact every single practice, in excess of what's actually required.

Buckhalter and Moreno were both injured in non-contact situations, Clady was injured in a pickup basketball game. The random injuries like the one to Dumervil will still happen, especially as it happened with only a few days of contact drills, we can barely afford to do only 2 days of contact work.

broncocalijohn
08-05-2010, 02:48 PM
Contact in camp should be reduced to a game of two hand touch - below the waist. That'll prepare us for the real thing.

That might involve pushing which would not be accepted. You got to get the two, yellow flags out with the velcro belt. I bet you cant counter point this one and go against flag football. Touch football are for 3rd world people who cant afford the get up. They think they are tough, but just poor.
On a serious note, Tombstone posted this link in the Elvis thread which should be reading for all (including Jhiz).
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=147371

broncocalijohn
08-05-2010, 02:49 PM
Haha, this thread is actually funny. Makes the news (****ing awful mother****ing news) a BIT easier to swallow.

You just can't be serious... really, admit it.

Hey everyone, he's kidding!!!

i dont throw neg reps around but when I do it is for Lostknight. Drink Dos Esquis.

jhns
08-05-2010, 02:51 PM
On a serious note, Tombstone posted this link in the Elvis thread which should be reading for all (including Jhiz).
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=147371

It was a good read but I'm not sure why you are singling me out. I claimed it was bad luck, not how they are training.

Jason in LA
08-05-2010, 03:04 PM
Lostknight, check day 3 buddy. The coaching staff had the players practice that day without pads (with the exception of the rookies and a few of the other younger players). Today is day 5 of training camp correct?? So the players have had to practice 4 out of the 5 days in pads. In high school we practiced in full pads for two (sometimes 3) practices a day, for two weeks. These are professional athletes that have been training and conditioning since february. Sometimes injuries happen. football is a game based on power, strength, agility, and brute force. If you don't practice hard you won't play hard. McD I hope you don't change a thing.

Man, my Jr year in high school we did 3 a days for two and a half weeks. The first half week was helmets only. The next two weeks were full pads for the most part. We had a few practices that were just helmets and shoulder pads. We all make it through it.

These players are used to it.

broncocalijohn
08-05-2010, 03:06 PM
It was a good read but I'm not sure why you are singling me out. I claimed it was bad luck, not how they are training.

seems the thread, once again, was directed towards you when he posted it.

azbroncfan
08-05-2010, 03:08 PM
I think they should just practice by playing Madden football.

Eldorado
08-05-2010, 03:09 PM
seems the thread, once again, was directed towards you when he posted it.

How? I don't see it.

lostknight
08-05-2010, 03:10 PM
Lostknight, check day 3 buddy. The coaching staff had the players practice that day without pads (with the exception of the rookies and a few of the other younger players). Today is day 5 of training camp correct?? So the players have had to practice 4 out of the 5 days in pads. In high school we practiced in full pads for two (sometimes 3) practices a day, for two weeks. These are professional athletes that have been training and conditioning since february. Sometimes injuries happen. football is a game based on power, strength, agility, and brute force. If you don't practice hard you won't play hard. McD I hope you don't change a thing.

If I missed that, my appologies, it still doesn't change that our strength and conditioning is suspect, but this makes me feel a bit better about McDaniels perhaps realizing that you can't practice in pads full speed 24/7.

Popps
08-05-2010, 03:12 PM
Lostknight, I'm curious, have you played tackle football and at what level? And have you coached before? .

Hilarious!

lostknight
08-05-2010, 03:19 PM
And we are now up to four major camp injuries, three of which probably end the season.

Still trying to convince me that there is nothing wrong with our strength and conditioning program?

Rabb
08-05-2010, 03:24 PM
And we are now up to four major camp injuries, three of which probably end the season.

Still trying to convince me that there is nothing wrong with our strength and conditioning program?

hey buddy!

you got that proof for us?

We run the most strenuous camp in the NFL (or did last year, and by all indications are doing so again)

Mogulseeker
08-05-2010, 03:27 PM
Lostknight is just lost, lol.

I like that Tuten wanted to up the practice intensity a little. By all accounts, McDaniels rides his players harder than Shanahan and his practices are tougher.

The Broncos, it seems, under Shanahan would always suffer late season injuries that devastated our playoff chances. I think a lot of it has to do with both wearing down and conditioning.

Naturally I hope Dumervil, Buckhalter, Clady and Moreno are fine by the time the season starts... but in the long run, the tougher practices will benefit the team.

lostknight
08-05-2010, 03:28 PM
In case McRabb hasn't figured it out:
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Rabb
08-05-2010, 03:29 PM
I guess that's one way of avoiding the question...well done (someone quote this so he can see it)

lostknight
08-05-2010, 03:30 PM
Lostknight is just lost, lol.

I like that Tuten wanted to up the practice intensity a little. By all accounts, McDaniels rides his players harder than Shanahan and his practices are tougher.


It didn't change under McDaniels. In fact, McDaniels had a even worse collapse. Chalk that up to one problem he didn't fix. So far, our strength and conditioning problems still are the same.

Doesn't it bug anyone that a college kid - Tebow can come in here, and consistently own all of the other players at the sprints?

lostknight
08-05-2010, 03:31 PM
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Clearly he hasn't.

Eldorado
08-05-2010, 03:31 PM
Just here to help.

hey buddy!

you got that proof for us?


In case McRabb hasn't figured it out:
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lostknight
08-05-2010, 03:35 PM
Sure go take a look at Vic Carucci's column today, where he calls the training camp gruelling. Take a look at NFL.com's archive from last year, where they will mention that Denver was in pads more then any team, except (IIRC) the patriots (there's a shock).

To be fair someone did bring to my attention that one of the practices earlier was out of pads. That's great. But the bottom line still is that we have a strength and conditioning problems, inexperienced coaches, and a really big ass problem to overcome now.

HAT
08-05-2010, 03:43 PM
I guess that's one way of avoiding the question...well done (someone quote this so he can see it)


Answer the question Claire.

HAT
08-05-2010, 03:44 PM
I think they should just practice by playing Madden football.

lk would be screaming from the rooftops at the first thumb injury.

Popcorn Sutton
08-05-2010, 03:45 PM
Why? It's the coaching staff's responsibility to come up with ways to prep this team, without a unnecessary amount of injury. Buckhalter and Moreno were injured in the same first practice of camp. Droom's probably out for the season, and we know Matt Willis is trying to take people's heads off.

I'm not rooting for the Shanahan system here, but something between the two extremes of not prepping your players for a full season and killing all your players before the season starts would be good.

Moreno's injury had NOTHING to do with contact.

Mogulseeker
08-05-2010, 03:46 PM
It didn't change under McDaniels. In fact, McDaniels had a even worse collapse. Chalk that up to one problem he didn't fix. So far, our strength and conditioning problems still are the same.

Doesn't it bug anyone that a college kid - Tebow can come in here, and consistently own all of the other players at the sprints?

It's because Tebow works harder. I wouldn't look too much into it.

Mogulseeker
08-05-2010, 03:47 PM
That said, if Tebow's work ethic rubs off on every player, that alone might be worth the #25 pick in the draft.

Los Broncos
08-05-2010, 03:49 PM
Answer the question Claire.

It's a fat girls name, no it's a family name.

SoDak Bronco
08-05-2010, 03:50 PM
you are a friggin idiot

bfoflcommish
08-05-2010, 03:51 PM
Dolphins better stop those non contact drills too

MIAMI -- Dolphins kick returner Kory Sheets tore his right Achilles' tendon during practice Wednesday and is out for the season.

NFL RedZone

Watching football on Sundays will be a whole new experience with NFL Network's new channel, NFL RedZone. Find out why.
Sheets was waived by the Dolphins hours after being hurt during a non-contact special teams drill. He fell to the ground, rolled in pain and eventually limped to the training room.

The season-ending injury was the second this week for the Dolphins. Rookie linebacker A.J. Edds was sidelined Monday by a knee injury and placed on injured reserve Wednesday.

bfoflcommish
08-05-2010, 03:52 PM
Browns too.

BEREA, Ohio -- Defensive back Chris Roberson (http://www.nfl.com/players/chrisroberson/profile?id=ROB068032) was carted off the Cleveland Browns (http://www.nfl.com/teams/clevelandbrowns/profile?team=CLE)' practice field Wednesday with an undisclosed injury.
Roberson, signed as a free agent in January, fell awkwardly while trying to defend a pass against Josh Cribbs (http://www.nfl.com/players/joshcribbs/profile?id=CRI120494) during a morning practice. Roberson crumpled to the ground, Cribbs fell on top of him and then made a spectacular one-handed grab.

bfoflcommish
08-05-2010, 03:53 PM
no drills for jags either

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Jaguars rookie D'Anthony Smith has an Achilles' tendon injury that will require surgery and could force him to miss the season.

NFL RedZone

Watching football on Sundays will be a whole new experience with NFL Network's new channel, NFL RedZone. Find out why.
Smith, a 6-foot-2, 298-pound defensive tackle and third-round draft pick from Louisiana Tech, pulled up lame during drills Monday night. Tests on Tuesday revealed the seriousness of the injury.

bfoflcommish
08-05-2010, 03:55 PM
niners...damn those 1 on 1 drills

SANTA CLARA, Calif. -- San Francisco 49ers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/sanfrancisco49ers/profile?team=SF) left guard David Baas (http://www.nfl.com/players/davidbaas/profile?id=BAA738296) sustained a mild concussion in Monday's first full-pads practice of training camp.
Franklin continues to skip camp
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/a_franklin_080210_65.jpg DT Aubrayo Franklin (http://www.nfl.com/players/aubrayofranklin/profile?id=FRA398785), the 49ers' franchise-tagged player, skipped his second day of training camp Monday and "it won't be his last" day missed, sources tell NFL.com's Steve Wyche. More ... (http://www.nfl.com/trainingcamp/story/09000d5d81978c3d/article/niners-dt-franklin-a-noshow-at-training-camp)


Coach Mike Singletary said the initial report from the medical staff was that Baas had a slight concussion, but the offensive lineman was to undergo further examination Monday afternoon. He likely will miss at least several days of two-a-day workouts.
Baas apparently was hurt in one-on-one drills. Last year, he injured a foot on the first day and missed the majority of training camp. A year ago he was hurt in the "nutcracker" hitting drill, which pits two similarly sized players between blocking pads spaced three feet apart




In fact I think every team should just stop all training camps right now.

GreatBronco16
08-05-2010, 03:57 PM
Sometimes you just can't fix stupid.

broncocalijohn
08-05-2010, 04:11 PM
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Clearly he hasn't.


so mcnabb can only respond and post in any thread that you arent already in? I think his question is out there to embarrass you. If you dont want to answer the questions, that is on you.

Rabb
08-05-2010, 04:37 PM
I love you guys...no really

bronco_diesel
08-05-2010, 04:51 PM
You still haven't answered the question in any way. You don't know how much football I have played. I'm certainly not going to act like I've played in the NFL. But I'm still curious about the level of tackle football you've played.

I read the entire thread just to see if this was answered. Total avoidance!

LRtagger
08-05-2010, 05:03 PM
Haynesworth
Dez Bryant
D'Anthony Smith
Pierre Thomas
AJ Edds
Hakeem Nicks
Chris Roberson
Aaron Curry
DeSean Jackson
David Baas
Shaun OHara
Jeremy Maclin
Rashard Mendenhall
Ed Wang
Montario Hardesty
Percy Harvin
Louis Murphy
Derrick Morgan
Domonique Foxworth


These are all players around the league that have been injured (some even more severely than Doom) since camp started on July 31st - that's 3 guys per day going down with injuries (and these are only the ones that I pulled from NFL.com headlines). I suppose all of these coaches should have known better than to let these professional athletes run, dive, and hit. Coaches at this level should know all it takes to create a physical and well conditioned team is to have two walkthroughs a day with some film study mixed in. Physical exertion is overrated in football.

mkporter
08-05-2010, 05:04 PM
Actually, Football Outsiders did a great job pointing to the late season introduction of Polumbus into the starting line up as being the single worst personal move in the NFL last year. That was due to injury.

Cool. I like football outsiders too. They have great metrics for a lot of stuff. They also calculate the most injured teams in the league. Check out this link:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2010/2009-adjusted-games-lost-totals

Spoiler: The Broncos were the healthiest team in the league. I'm not going to chalk that all up to McDaniels improving things, but it really destroys the "McDaniels harsh camps are causing too many injuries" thing you are driving.

McDman
08-05-2010, 05:04 PM
There is nothing wrong with how our training camp is run. When Shanny was coach here he ran a very soft and easy camp, especially towards the end, and we saw the effects of that on the field. We played a soft game and relied on finesse, this will get you nowhere in the NFL.

I've heard multiple people say this on the radio that one of the big problems today is that guys are expected to keep in top physical condition through the off season and it wears their bodies down. These guys train so hard that they eventually break down and something breaks, pops, tears, etc... It's not McDaniels' fault for how some of these guys train in the off season, every player that wants to make it in the league has to train; we've just run into some bad luck.

Also, I understand that training camp is really hard but if you take a look at it, the practices are only an hour and a half and half the time they aren't hitting. I played sports my whole life and lacrosse in high school and college and I can tell you it's not the camps that are so hard, it's the training up to the camp. I never understood why these guys act like camp is the worst thing in the world.It's like three hours a day and they're finally back into doing what they love.

errand
08-05-2010, 05:18 PM
practice like you play and play like you practice

HAT
08-05-2010, 05:22 PM
Cool. I like football outsiders too. They have great metrics for a lot of stuff. They also calculate the most injured teams in the league. Check out this link:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2010/2009-adjusted-games-lost-totals

Spoiler: The Broncos were the healthiest team in the league. I'm not going to chalk that all up to McDaniels improving things, but it really destroys the "McDaniels harsh camps are causing too many injuries" thing you are driving.

:thanku:

Archer81
08-05-2010, 06:01 PM
Jesus Christ.

Now McDaniels practices are "too physical"?...What ****ing bizarro planet am I on?


:Broncos:

lostknight
08-05-2010, 06:05 PM
Spoiler: The Broncos were the healthiest team in the league. I'm not going to chalk that all up to McDaniels improving things, but it really destroys the "McDaniels harsh camps are causing too many injuries" thing you are driving.

We lucked out for a while last year, and then we put in Polumbus after a injury and everything went to hell. This year we are aggressivly paying for things, given we already have 3 out for the season (which I don't believe anyone else has).

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2010, 06:10 PM
We lucked out for a while last year, and then we put in Polumbus after a injury and everything went to hell. This year we are aggressivly paying for things, given we already have 3 out for the season (which I don't believe anyone else has).

There's two guys on IR: McKinnley and Barrett. Who's the other guy out for the season?

bfoflcommish
08-05-2010, 06:12 PM
There's two guys on IR: McKinnley and Barrett. Who's the other guy out for the season?

and were they even "hurt" in practice?

Archer81
08-05-2010, 06:13 PM
Im struggling with the logic displayed by some of the posters...the gripe with McDaniels now is physicality of practices for a game that is physically demanding where players all have something wrong with them by the end of the year? So...how does Clady or Moreno or Buck getting hurt have anything to do with the toughness of training camp when none of them were contact injuries? What does that have to do with McDaniels?

:Broncos:

DB Doom
08-05-2010, 06:39 PM
Don't know if anyone else remembers this, but there were complaints in the Shanny era that they weren't doing enough hitting, that they were too soft in practice, and it translated to more in-game injuries and lots of missed tackles by the defense. Anyone recall this?

Super-duper glad that people on a message board know more about football training and practice techniques than any coaching staff we've ever had.

What a ****ing moron.


this

KipCorrington25
08-05-2010, 06:49 PM
lostknight = never worn a jock

GreatBronco16
08-05-2010, 07:42 PM
lostknight = never worn a jock

No, he wore them allright. He would sneak into the locker room, dig them out of the hamper, then put them on his head.

Binkythefrog
08-05-2010, 08:06 PM
We lucked out for a while last year, and then we put in Polumbus after a injury and everything went to hell. This year we are aggressivly paying for things, given we already have 3 out for the season (which I don't believe anyone else has).

So according to you, the lack of injuries we had last year had nothing to do with the coaching staff because they were lucky. Then this year 4 players suffer freak injuries, and its all the coaching staff's fault?

So... no matter what the coaches do, its their fault, and whenever something that happens in real life counters your opinion, the coaches lucked out.

The fact is that fans only see the negative effects of a trainers work. We don't see the work behind the scenes that helps a player avoid certain injuries, or the work that goes into helping a player recover more quickly from an injury. Your argument takes a very small sample of injuries that occurred in 4 days and makes a broad generalization on a coaching staff while completely disregarding a body of evidence from last season that counters your argument. You can't claim that the coaches suck when injuries happen, and claim that it is luck when injuries don't happen.

missingnumber7
08-05-2010, 08:07 PM
a medical staff players don't trust

Where does this come from? Do you have a reference for making this comment? Or is this a Josina type comment? I have never once seen or heard a player make a comment about the training staff or take treatment else where in the entirity of my broncos fandom. In fact, I have heard several players praise Greek.

Dukes
08-05-2010, 08:25 PM
Where does this come from? Do you have a reference for making this comment? Or is this a Josina type comment? I have never once seen or heard a player make a comment about the training staff or take treatment else where in the entirity of my broncos fandom. In fact, I have heard several players praise Greek.

It comes from a disgruntled Brandon Marshall last year.

ZONA
08-05-2010, 08:31 PM
Put em all in pads, tell them to hit the **** out of each other and if you get hurt, too F'n bad. The next guy might come in and take your job, so don't get hut. This is the NFL and there is no room for pussies who want to play touch football in practice, especially training camp when there aren't even any games for several weeks.

watermock
08-05-2010, 08:41 PM
Our next Sack Master:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=5028&dateline=1276496999

Hey, He wrested the Ring of Power not once, but twice.

FireFly
08-05-2010, 08:51 PM
Fluke injuries.

I hope nothing changes with practice.

It's unfortunate that anyone is injured. It just sucks even more who is injured!!

watermock
08-05-2010, 08:55 PM
It comes from a disgruntled Brandon Marshall last year.

I doubt the BM saga is yet over, but I'm sure He's glad to GTFO of this mess.

He has lot's of condions in his contract.

At any rate, he's gone, I guess as part of the Messiah trade.

How Amusing.

Jason7730
08-05-2010, 09:41 PM
We lucked out for a while last year, and then we put in Polumbus after a injury and everything went to hell. This year we are aggressivly paying for things, given we already have 3 out for the season (which I don't believe anyone else has).

Polumbus is surely the reason we could not stop the run in the second half of the season, and gave up 300 yds rushing to the chefs. That MUST have been him on that d-line. Good call..................:thumbsup:

mkporter
08-05-2010, 10:03 PM
We lucked out for a while last year, and then we put in Polumbus after a injury and everything went to hell. This year we are aggressivly paying for things, given we already have 3 out for the season (which I don't believe anyone else has).

I don't really know how to respond to this level of inanity.

Popps
08-05-2010, 10:22 PM
I'm not going to read this thread, but I'm going to assume it's for the lulz.

serious hops
08-06-2010, 12:10 AM
We lucked out for a while last year, and then we put in Polumbus after a injury and everything went to hell. This year we are aggressivly paying for things, given we already have 3 out for the season (which I don't believe anyone else has).

So McD's overly-rigorous training camp caused Ryan Harris' mid-season toe injury last year also? Was McD on the grassy knoll as well? Seriously, I can't tell if that was a joke, or a strong candidate for the tinfoil hat comment of the month award.

lostknight
08-06-2010, 01:46 AM
Where does this come from? Do you have a reference for making this comment? Or is this a Josina type comment? I have never once seen or heard a player make a comment about the training staff or take treatment else where in the entirity of my broncos fandom. In fact, I have heard several players praise Greek.

Go take a look at what Brandon Marshall and Al Wilson have had to say.

Kyle
08-06-2010, 02:36 AM
Lost Knight, the comments Brandon Marshall had about the Greek can probably be chalked up to the kind of guy BMarsh is. He is always looking to someone else to blame his problems on. He didn't complain when Greek helped him recover quickly from a "fast food bag slip" incident that would have kept you or I from proper function a lot longer, did he? Al Wilson was looking for an "Old School," guy to overlook the obvious risk to the team. He was in a condition that did not make sense to guarantee him money, and equally little sense to risk his lifelong health and the terrible press that putting him on the field only to be paralyzed by a big hit would bring. How would you be talking about this training staff had they let him play and get hurt?!?! Greek is a respected trainer. I know you hate that idea, but, GET OVER IT!! It wasn't his choice to train weak in the past. It isn't his choice to train hard now. It is his responsibility to treat the players based on those decisions.

watermock
08-06-2010, 04:31 AM
Lost Knight, the comments Brandon Marshall had about the Greek can probably be chalked up to the kind of guy BMarsh is. He is always looking to someone else to blame his problems on. He didn't complain when Greek helped him recover quickly from a "fast food bag slip" incident that would have kept you or I from proper function a lot longer, did he? Al Wilson was looking for an "Old School," guy to overlook the obvious risk to the team. He was in a condition that did not make sense to guarantee him money, and equally little sense to risk his lifelong health and the terrible press that putting him on the field only to be paralyzed by a big hit would bring. How would you be talking about this training staff had they let him play and get hurt?!?! Greek is a respected trainer. I know you hate that idea, but, GET OVER IT!! It wasn't his choice to train weak in the past. It isn't his choice to train hard now. It is his responsibility to treat the players based on those decisions.

What assumptive bullshiat.

Has Tuten ever gone on record? Wilson played hurt and was cut after being traded and failing his physical.

As far as BM goes,we paid the SAVIOR as much to sit on the bench.

watermock
08-06-2010, 04:37 AM
It's also funny how Parcells didn't have a problem aquiring BM or giving him a new contract.

The ends know no bounds regarding this boy/coach.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-06-2010, 07:13 AM
It's also funny how Parcells didn't have a problem aquiring BM or giving him a new contract.

The ends know no bounds regarding this boy/coach.

Yeah, Parcells has never ****ed anything up, ever. Not ever. He's perfect in every way.

/yawn

Pour yourself another, mock.

missingnumber7
08-06-2010, 07:19 AM
Go take a look at what Brandon Marshall and Al Wilson have had to say.
I don't have to take a look to know what you are refering to is bs. BM has never been a team player and probably put as much work into rehab as he did causing problems in camp. And Al was told by shanny to find a specialist to clear him, but it was extremely obvious to everyone he was a different player after the injury. Als beef was with shanny and higher, not with Greek. So if that's all you can fabricate than as several people have already pointed out its time to move on.

theAPAOps5
08-06-2010, 07:37 AM
Wow read the first post in the thread I am stupider for it. Jesus some people are crazy, bat **** crazy.

TonyR
08-06-2010, 07:39 AM
It's also funny how Parcells...

When's the last time Parcells won anything?

lostknight
08-06-2010, 08:13 AM
Polumbus is surely the reason we could not stop the run in the second half of the season, and gave up 300 yds rushing to the chefs. That MUST have been him on that d-line. Good call..................:thumbsup:

Go take a look at the FO almanac. They have a very good write up on it.

Jason in LA
08-06-2010, 08:52 AM
Hey lostknight, not sure if we cleared it up yet or not, but what level of football have you played or coached at? I'm just curious.

bfoflcommish
08-06-2010, 08:59 AM
The same that you have ;-)

You must have stayed at a holiday inn express Wednesday night didnt you?

lostknight
08-06-2010, 09:05 AM
DNFTT.

The fact that there were two more season ending injuries that were revealed after this, really should wake people up, but hey, you guys can all continue to call names - and our players will continue to get injured, and we will see if McDaniels trainign regiment makes a better team or not.

bfoflcommish
08-06-2010, 09:06 AM
DNFTT.

The fact that there were two more season ending injuries that were revealed after this, really should wake people up, but hey, you guys can all continue to call names - and our players will continue to get injured, and we will see if McDaniels trainign regiment makes a better team or not.

again should jets, browns, dolphins, niners, etc also change their camp rigors as well?

Florida_Bronco
08-06-2010, 09:12 AM
Hey lostknight, not sure if we cleared it up yet or not, but what level of football have you played or coached at? I'm just curious.

I'm curious too.

lostknight
08-06-2010, 09:44 AM
again should jets, browns, dolphins, niners, etc also change their camp rigors as well?

I don't know enough to judge, outside of the NFL comments that we ran the hardest camp last year.

lostknight
08-06-2010, 09:45 AM
From Football outsiders:

Harris’ injury revealed the danger that lurks at the bottom of NFL rosters, and this danger is named “Tyler Polumbus.”
It’s entirely possible that Polumbus was the league’s worst regular starter during the second half of the sea- son. Consider that Polumbus ranked fifth in the league with six blown blocks that led to sacks despite only starting for half a year. That only teases at the very edges of how bad Polumbus was. Denver averaged 4.9 yards per carry on runs to the right side when Har- ris was in the lineup; after Polumbus took over, they averaged 3.9 yards per carry on those same plays. While it’s impossible to attribute the failure or suc- cess of a running play to one lineman, tape showed that Polumbus frequently struggled to engulf the man he was assigned to block at the line of scrimmage, let alone get any push on runs to his side. And that was when he managed to stay upright.

Rabb
08-06-2010, 09:47 AM
Hey lostknight, not sure if we cleared it up yet or not, but what level of football have you played or coached at? I'm just curious.

he probably put you on ignore which is his way of not answering the question

also, he probably thinks I am replying to him right now and will comment on it

Jason in LA
08-06-2010, 09:49 AM
DNFTT.

The fact that there were two more season ending injuries that were revealed after this, really should wake people up, but hey, you guys can all continue to call names - and our players will continue to get injured, and we will see if McDaniels trainign regiment makes a better team or not.

I'm not calling you names. I'm just asking one simple question. What level of tackle football have you played and or coached at?

lostknight
08-06-2010, 10:18 AM
I'm not calling you names. I'm just asking one simple question. What level of tackle football have you played and or coached at?

argumentum ad verecundiam.

Again, you don't like the facts, you don't like the fact that since I started this article, two more players have gone down with season ending injuries. Five critical injuries this season.

If you really don't see a problem with our strength and conditioning program in the face of all of that evidence, nothing I will write will convince you.

hookemhess
08-06-2010, 10:21 AM
@VicLombardi This is getting ridiculous. Jarvis Moss clutching his hand on way to training room and Chris Kuper limping right behind him.

Los Broncos
08-06-2010, 10:22 AM
@VicLombardi This is getting ridiculous. Jarvis Moss clutching his hand on way to training room and Chris Kuper limping right behind him.

Move the training somewhere else.

lostknight
08-06-2010, 10:27 AM
@VicLombardi This is getting ridiculous. Jarvis Moss clutching his hand on way to training room and Chris Kuper limping right behind him.

........

bfoflcommish
08-06-2010, 10:30 AM
........

one heat related, im guessing the other was most likely non contact as have all the others except dum (which was one on one not full speed full contact)...so again your point?

Drek
08-06-2010, 10:31 AM
I don't know enough to judge, outside of the NFL comments that we ran the hardest camp last year.
And we didn't have any major injuries.

Now this year players have said McDaniels is running a less aggressive camp and we're getting hit with a wave of injuries. Almost all of them have been non-contact and/or standard drills every team regardless of camp rigor runs.

Its in no way associated with the coaching philosophy of having camps that actually require the guys to play some football. Is it a potential medical/training issue? Very possibly. But our camp isn't too awful different form what many other teams run and they don't have players getting hurt left and right.

Its most likely just some really egregiously bad luck. It happens. Look at the Red Sox season so far. Many players and agents have stated that their medical staff and training program is by far the best in baseball. Yet this year they've had a cavalcade of injuries. Most flukes. Its just really **** luck.

bfoflcommish
08-06-2010, 10:33 AM
PostBroncos (http://twitter.com/PostBroncos)

Kuper left the field. He was able to walk off on his own.


DAMN IT....WHY DOES MCD RUN TRAINING CAMP THE WAY HE DOES...DOESNT HE UNDERSTAND WE ARE THE ONLY TEAM GETTING TWISTS AND SPRAINS?????

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-06-2010, 10:33 AM
From Football outsiders:

Harris’ injury revealed the danger that lurks at the bottom of NFL rosters, and this danger is named “Tyler Polumbus.”
It’s entirely possible that Polumbus was the league’s worst regular starter during the second half of the sea- son. Consider that Polumbus ranked fifth in the league with six blown blocks that led to sacks despite only starting for half a year. That only teases at the very edges of how bad Polumbus was. Denver averaged 4.9 yards per carry on runs to the right side when Har- ris was in the lineup; after Polumbus took over, they averaged 3.9 yards per carry on those same plays. While it’s impossible to attribute the failure or suc- cess of a running play to one lineman, tape showed that Polumbus frequently struggled to engulf the man he was assigned to block at the line of scrimmage, let alone get any push on runs to his side. And that was when he managed to stay upright.

Neat. So what level of football have you played?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-06-2010, 10:34 AM
argumentum ad verecundiam.

Again, you don't like the facts, you don't like the fact that since I started this article, two more players have gone down with season ending injuries. Five critical injuries this season.

If you really don't see a problem with our strength and conditioning program in the face of all of that evidence, nothing I will write will convince you.

Oh, is that like an italian professional league?

azbroncfan
08-06-2010, 10:35 AM
Lostnight is up for overreacting whiny bit#h award for the year. Thinking with emotions and trying to project blame instead of just seeing a situation for what it is.

Jason in LA
08-06-2010, 10:46 AM
argumentum ad verecundiam.

Again, you don't like the facts, you don't like the fact that since I started this article, two more players have gone down with season ending injuries. Five critical injuries this season.

If you really don't see a problem with our strength and conditioning program in the face of all of that evidence, nothing I will write will convince you.

I'm still just curious, what level of tackle football have you played and/or coached at?

Simple question. I'm not understanding why we can't get an answer to that.

lostknight
08-06-2010, 10:48 AM
Wow. So once again, do I really need to point out that coaches are responsible for safe practices? It might be psychological, it might be hitting too hard, it might be poor training, it might be more conditioning, but anytime you have a player out in a practice instead of a game, someone missed something.

Is there a normal level of injuries - yes, but like all things, it's not completely random. Safety can and should be taught. So far the injuries are occuring in areas we have at least one new coach (line, linebackers, running backs). I don't think it should be taboo to question if they know what they are doing.


Hopefully, the injuries today are very minor, and not indicative of a bigger breakdown,but just curious, what would it take you to believe that there is some level of responsibility that coaches have to making sure their players don't get injured? Two more season ending injuries? Klis saying that the injuries are due to the coaching staff not be prepared? Jesus and 12 of the apostles saying the coaches are not prepped?

The MVPlaya
08-06-2010, 10:49 AM
Vote YES

If you think this thread needs to be deleted due to the bad karma it could bring to the Broncos in regards to injury.

Just saying.:thumbsup:

lostknight
08-06-2010, 10:50 AM
I'm still just curious, what level of tackle football have you played and/or coached at?

Simple question. I'm not understanding why we can't get an answer to that.

And the entire insinuation that people are not allowed to question McDaniel's opinions and those of his staff if they are not actively employed by the NFL, is designed to do nothing but dodge the fact that this team's chances of winning this year has been remarkably decreased by a abnormally high number of injuries.

azbroncfan
08-06-2010, 10:50 AM
Wow. So once again, do I really need to point out that coaches are responsible for safe practices? It might be psychological, it might be hitting too hard, it might be poor training, it might be more conditioning, but anytime you have a player out in a practice instead of a game, someone missed something.

Is there a normal level of injuries - yes, but like all things, it's not completely random. Safety can and should be taught. So far the injuries are occuring in areas we have at least one new coach (line, linebackers, running backs). I don't think it should be taboo to question if they know what they are doing.


Hopefully, the injuries today are very minor, and not indicative of a bigger breakdown,but just curious, what would it take you to believe that there is some level of responsibility that coaches have to making sure their players don't get injured? Two more season ending injuries? Klis saying that the injuries are due to the coaching staff not be prepared? Jesus and 12 of the apostles saying the coaches are not prepped?

You keep dodging the what level of football have you coached/played in but I am not going there. Moreno and Buck would of got hurt in a flag football camp. How was the coaching staff at fault with Clady? Should the coaching staff not have one on one drills where Elvis got hurt?

Eldorado
08-06-2010, 10:51 AM
I'm still just curious, what level of tackle football have you played and/or coached at?

Simple question. I'm not understanding why we can't get an answer to that.

I played soccer.

There we go.

bfoflcommish
08-06-2010, 10:54 AM
Wow. So once again, do I really need to point out that coaches are responsible for safe practices? It might be psychological, it might be hitting too hard, it might be poor training, it might be more conditioning, but anytime you have a player out in a practice instead of a game, someone missed something.

Is there a normal level of injuries - yes, but like all things, it's not completely random. Safety can and should be taught. So far the injuries are occuring in areas we have at least one new coach (line, linebackers, running backs). I don't think it should be taboo to question if they know what they are doing.


Hopefully, the injuries today are very minor, and not indicative of a bigger breakdown,but just curious, what would it take you to believe that there is some level of responsibility that coaches have to making sure their players don't get injured? Two more season ending injuries? Klis saying that the injuries are due to the coaching staff not be prepared? Jesus and 12 of the apostles saying the coaches are not prepped?

so what you are saying is there are never injuries in Parcells camps, billicks camps or were they in cowher camps, etc?????

Rabb
08-06-2010, 10:55 AM
There we go.

it explains so much doesn't it?

lostknight
08-06-2010, 10:56 AM
You keep dodging the what level of football have you coached/played in but I am not going there.

"Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, but I am not going there." You are arguing like a Tea Partier.

This has nothing to due with the issue at hand. What does - the coaches need to provide training that both prepares and keeps players safe. So far, they are ****ing failing at that.

Moreno and Buck would of got hurt in a flag football camp.

We don't know that. They were both injured doing the same practice, which means at the very least, they either didn't stretch out properly, or had incorrect technique, or in some manner, did something their body could not handle. Coaching should understand what players can or can not do, the condition they are in, and then safely improve what they can do.


How was the coaching staff at fault with Clady?
None, at at no point did I say they were, just like I would not have blamed the Marshall injury on Dan Reeves. They have nothing to do with each other. The spate of other injuries occured at the Broncos camp, under Broncos direction and supervision.


Should the coaching staff not have one on one drills where Elvis got hurt?

It depends? Did Polumbus do the block correctly? Did Elvis fight it off correctly? Was Elvis in proper shape to do the injury? Coaches have to determine that. Was Alphonso Smith needlessly aggressive in camp (among others) Doom himself thought so. Did anyone reign them in? We don't know.

lostknight
08-06-2010, 10:57 AM
There we go.

Don't falsify posts asshat. I've played football, baseball and basketball. I dispise soccer ;-)

lostknight
08-06-2010, 10:58 AM
Vote YES

If you think this thread needs to be deleted due to the bad karma it could bring to the Broncos in regards to injury.

Just saying.:thumbsup:

You fix the coaching, and I'll fix the karma ;-)

Florida_Bronco
08-06-2010, 10:59 AM
This has nothing to due with the issue at hand. What does - the coaches need to provide training that both prepares and keeps players safe. So far, they are ****ing failing at that. You've identified the effect, but you can't pinpoint the cause. Maybe you should focus on the cause and not the effect.

bfoflcommish
08-06-2010, 11:01 AM
"Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, but I am not going there." You are arguing like a Tea Partier.

This has nothing to due with the issue at hand. What does - the coaches need to provide training that both prepares and keeps players safe. So far, they are ****ing failing at that.



We don't know that. They were both injured doing the same practice, which means at the very least, they either didn't stretch out properly, or had incorrect technique, or in some manner, did something their body could not handle. Coaching should understand what players can or can not do, the condition they are in, and then safely improve what they can do.


None, at at no point did I say they were, just like I would not have blamed the Marshall injury on Dan Reeves. They have nothing to do with each other. The spate of other injuries occured at the Broncos camp, under Broncos direction and supervision.



It depends? Did Polumbus do the block correctly? Did Elvis fight it off correctly? Was Elvis in proper shape to do the injury?

omfg you cant be serious, really please tell me you are joking!!!!!

so anyone who has ever gotten injured in the nfl or any sport for that matter its the coaches fault for the player giving more then thier body can handle????

Tombstone RJ
08-06-2010, 11:01 AM
argumentum ad verecundiam.

Again, you don't like the facts, you don't like the fact that since I started this article, two more players have gone down with season ending injuries. Five critical injuries this season.

If you really don't see a problem with our strength and conditioning program in the face of all of that evidence, nothing I will write will convince you.

Everyone has a problem with injuries. McD is trying to alleviate the late season slide and the soft tissue injuries by more strength, conditioning and contact. On the flip side, Shanahan did not emphasize this type of training and yet, the Broncos suffered injuries just the same.

So, IMHO your just piling on to the "I hate McD" bandwagon because for "fans" like you, McD is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

lostknight
08-06-2010, 11:01 AM
You've identified the effect, but you can't pinpoint the cause. Maybe you should focus on the cause and not the effect.

It's a fair point to question that, and that's far more rational then what most here are posting. We do know, however, that safety is the coaches responsibility. It's natural and right to question when that breaks down, as it has catastrophically.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-06-2010, 11:02 AM
And here I thought pro football players were professionals, and grown ass men, who didn't need their coaches to hold their hands and make sure they were 100% stretched out and ready. Silly me.

Is there even a way to check to make sure a guy is stretched out properly? "Alright boys! Line up for the MRI!" ****ing retarded.

You argue like jhiz.

1. Make moronic statement.
2. Back up that statement no matter what.
3. Find the most tenuous angle to back up the statement over and over again.
4. Duck any questions about your qualifications by simply ignoring them and making ad hominem attacks instead.
5. Profit (?)

You two should go to prom together.

azbroncfan
08-06-2010, 11:02 AM
"Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, but I am not going there." You are arguing like a Tea Partier.

This has nothing to due with the issue at hand. What does - the coaches need to provide training that both prepares and keeps players safe. So far, they are ****ing failing at that.



We don't know that. They were both injured doing the same practice, which means at the very least, they either didn't stretch out properly, or had incorrect technique, or in some manner, did something their body could not handle. Coaching should understand what players can or can not do, the condition they are in, and then safely improve what they can do.


None, at at no point did I say they were, just like I would not have blamed the Marshall injury on Dan Reeves. They have nothing to do with each other. The spate of other injuries occured at the Broncos camp, under Broncos direction and supervision.



It depends? Did Polumbus do the block correctly? Did Elvis fight it off correctly? Was Elvis in proper shape to do the injury? Coaches have to determine that. Was Alphonso Smith needlessly aggressive in camp (among others) Doom himself thought so. Did anyone reign them in? We don't know.

You are just the type of person who likes to have an excuse and someone to blame stuff on instead of just looking at the reality of the situation.

lostknight
08-06-2010, 11:05 AM
So, IMHO your just piling on to the "I hate McD" bandwagon because for "fans" like you, McD is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

I don't hate McDaniels. I do think that player safety is his (and the rest of the coaches) jobs. He doesn't get a pass because of who he is. What worked last year, clearly isn't this year, and I suspect that a large portion of it may be the high number of new coaches.

McDaniels makes brilliant decisions, and sucky decisions. My problem is, he seems incapable of understanding when a brilliant decision is becoming a sucky position.

Florida_Bronco
08-06-2010, 11:07 AM
It's a fair point to question that, and that's far more rational then what most here are posting. We do know, however, that safety is the coaches responsibility. It's natural and right to question when that breaks down, as it has catastrophically.

I agree that safety is the responsibility of the coach, but that responsibility is also shared by the player as well.

Anyways, that's besides the point. If you want to lay this in McD's lap, that's fine, but you need to have some sort of actual, verifiable link between what he's doing and the injuries.

Rabb
08-06-2010, 11:13 AM
it's pretty sad that dbags like lostknight are probably just waiting with baited breath for the next injury

nice fan

Jason in LA
08-06-2010, 11:13 AM
And the entire insinuation that people are not allowed to question McDaniel's opinions and those of his staff if they are not actively employed by the NFL, is designed to do nothing but dodge the fact that this team's chances of winning this year has been remarkably decreased by a abnormally high number of injuries.

I'm still just curious, what level of tackle football have you played and/or coached at?

Jason in LA
08-06-2010, 11:14 AM
Don't falsify posts asshat. I've played football, baseball and basketball. I dispise soccer ;-)

I'm still just curious, what level of tackle football have you played and/or coached at?

lostknight
08-06-2010, 11:17 AM
I agree that safety is the responsibility of the coach, but that responsibility is also shared by the player as well.

Anyways, that's besides the point. If you want to lay this in McD's lap, that's fine, but you need to have some sort of actual, verifiable link between what he's doing and the injuries.

That's actually fair and valid. But so far, we have five significant injuries to five different players, our star running back, our star defensive back, and our star special teams player. Sooner or later, correlation does imply causation.

Kaylore
08-06-2010, 11:19 AM
That's actually fair and valid. But so far, we have five significant injuries to five different players, our star running back, our star defensive back, and our star special teams player. Sooner or later, correlation does imply causation.

Yeah - they all play football.

bfoflcommish
08-06-2010, 11:20 AM
That's actually fair and valid. But so far, we have five significant injuries to five different players, our star running back, our star defensive back, and our star special teams player. Sooner or later, correlation does imply causation.


so dumb (bad)luck that they are all "star" players is what your problem is then. if they were all Kory sheets or danthony smith calbur there wouldnt be a problem for you???

bfoflcommish
08-06-2010, 11:22 AM
add cowboys to list of teams running a bad camp, I wish Wade knew how to coach in NFL

Cowboys' Spears could miss regular-season opener due to injury (http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d8198fd07)
SAN ANTONIO -- Dallas Cowboys defensive end Marcus Spears will miss the rest of training camp and possibly the season opener at Washington with a sprained left knee. Spears is expected to be out four to six weeks after getting hurt late during Thursday's second practice....
Aug 6, 2010

Florida_Bronco
08-06-2010, 11:24 AM
That's actually fair and valid. But so far, we have five significant injuries to five different players, our star running back, our star defensive back, and our star special teams player. Sooner or later, correlation does imply causation.

But see there isn't any correlation. For there to be correlation this would have to be a repeatable situation over several years with teams who run similar camps and for it uncommon in those teams with more loosely run camps.

So far, we've never seen evidence to support either of the above statements, thus the scientific method suggests that this is an anomaly.

Dedhed
08-06-2010, 02:24 PM
Nope, I am suggesting that like every other team in the league, we don't put them in pads and encourage full contact every single practice, in excess of what's actually required.

Are you actually this naive?

lostknight
08-06-2010, 02:26 PM
Heh, on Sirius a few moments ago the remarked that they liked the aggressiveness on camp, but a aweful lot of players seemed to be going to the ground, and wondered live on the radio if the coaches were focusing enough on safety.

And with that, I am done posting here.

Dedhed
08-06-2010, 02:27 PM
There not fluke injuries. They are techniques done wrong, or asking for things that the body is not in condition to deliver. Both of these are damning indictments on the coaches ability to either team or observe where the players are at.

You are just too dumb for words.

Dedhed
08-06-2010, 02:28 PM
And with that, I am done posting here.

Please let this be true:thumbsup:

lostknight
08-06-2010, 02:29 PM
Please let this be true:thumbsup:


Oh, maybe once more just to troll you

Look at that. :~ohyah!:

Dedhed
08-06-2010, 02:32 PM
Oh, maybe once more just to troll you

Look at that. :~ohyah!:

a troll is as a troll does.

jhns
08-06-2010, 02:34 PM
And here I thought pro football players were professionals, and grown ass men, who didn't need their coaches to hold their hands and make sure they were 100% stretched out and ready. Silly me.

Is there even a way to check to make sure a guy is stretched out properly? "Alright boys! Line up for the MRI!" ****ing retarded.

You argue like jhiz.

1. Make moronic statement.
2. Back up that statement no matter what.
3. Find the most tenuous angle to back up the statement over and over again.
4. Duck any questions about your qualifications by simply ignoring them and making ad hominem attacks instead.
5. Profit (?)

You two should go to prom together.

I thought we were going to prom? Are you already ditching me?

Anyways, you should at least take out #4. That is all you, not me. Just read your posts, it is every single one.

broncocalijohn
08-06-2010, 02:36 PM
We lucked out for a while last year, and then we put in Polumbus after a injury and everything went to hell. This year we are aggressivly paying for things, given we already have 3 out for the season (which I don't believe anyone else has).

so last year we were just lucky and it caught up to us this year. Can you please show us your posts and links for problems of camp last year? Seems we were pretty damn healthy compared to Shanny's last year of the fun show, "What injury will we get this week?"
BTW lostknight, can you at least tell us how many neg reps you received for this thread?

Cito Pelon
08-06-2010, 02:36 PM
I haven't read a single post on this thread, but it's getting a lot of play.

Should I read it?

lostknight
08-06-2010, 02:39 PM
so last year we were just lucky and it caught up to us this year. Can you please show us your posts and links for problems of camp last year? Seems we were pretty damn healthy compared to Shanny's last year of the fun show, "What injury will we get this week?"
BTW lostknight, can you at least tell us how many neg reps you received for this thread?

I posted on the old freak board (IIRC) that I was concerned about injuries.

lostknight
08-06-2010, 02:40 PM
I haven't read a single post on this thread, but it's getting a lot of play.

Should I read it?

Probably not, even though we have had three maybe five major injuries since it started.

Cito Pelon
08-06-2010, 02:42 PM
Probably not, even though we have had three maybe five major injuries since it started.

Been there done that elsewhere, what's gonna make me read this thread?

broncocalijohn
08-06-2010, 02:59 PM
I posted on the old freak board (IIRC) that I was concerned about injuries.


so how was your reaction to all the injuries we had in 08? Did you blame Shanahan for running a fluff Training Camp?

lostknight
08-06-2010, 03:02 PM
so how was your reaction to all the injuries we had in 08? Did you blame Shanahan for running a fluff Training Camp?

2007 season, I think I was mainly focused on Cutler, Marshall and Sheffler. At that point, the thinking pushed by the Broncos FO was part of the reason we got off to a good start was because they didn't practice in pads as often. At the time I blindly agreed with the front office, only to be disappointed in the collapse.

azbroncfan
08-06-2010, 03:07 PM
2007 season, I think I was mainly focused on Cutler, Marshall and Sheffler. At that point, the thinking pushed by the Broncos FO was part of the reason we got off to a good start was because they didn't practice in pads as often. At the time I blindly agreed with the front office, only to be disappointed in the collapse.

Heh, on Sirius a few moments ago the remarked that they liked the aggressiveness on camp, but a aweful lot of players seemed to be going to the ground, and wondered live on the radio if the coaches were focusing enough on safety.

And with that, I am done posting here.

Are you or not that was 4 posts ago?

Lev Vyvanse
08-06-2010, 03:20 PM
Don't falsify posts asshat. I've played football, baseball and basketball. I dispise soccer ;-)

Two hand touch doesn't count.

broncocalijohn
08-06-2010, 03:40 PM
2007 season, I think I was mainly focused on Cutler, Marshall and Sheffler. At that point, the thinking pushed by the Broncos FO was part of the reason we got off to a good start was because they didn't practice in pads as often. At the time I blindly agreed with the front office, only to be disappointed in the collapse.

why u put 2007? We had massive injuries at RB for the whole year of 08. Many of those players were in Shanny's TC. Just maybe those fluff Training Camps were the reason why we would not only get injured during the season but lose near the end of the season.

Jason in LA
08-06-2010, 04:53 PM
I haven't read a single post on this thread, but it's getting a lot of play.

Should I read it?

Only thing you've really missed is lostknight avoiding the question about what level of football has he played and/or coached.

HAT
08-06-2010, 05:19 PM
Only thing you've really missed is lostknight avoiding the question about what level of football has he played and/or coached.

This is simply not true. He also would've missed McRabb asking LK to prove his contention that Denver "Runs the most strenuous camp in the league".

:~ohyah!:

GreatBronco16
08-06-2010, 06:21 PM
Only thing you've really missed is lostknight avoiding the question about what level of football has he played and/or coached.

I played High School and coached my sons pee-wee team. So am I now qualified?;D

Broncos4tw
08-07-2010, 08:03 AM
While perhaps you don't start the camp holding back... the increased intensity of camp was here last year, too.. we did not have the bad breaks.

But.. they need to adjust NOW.. and ease up. They have to. It would be irresponsible to keep going at the same pace, given the injuries we now have. I've heard it from a few analysts, and I agree. Ease up a bit.

montrose
08-07-2010, 08:37 AM
None of the injuries (to my knowledge) have come in any "new" drills McD has incorporated. Doom was hurt in 1-on-1's, which every team does; Moreno and Buck in 9-on-7, which every team does; Clady playing basketball, which is his fault; and the other guys I'm not aware of but none of those appear to be the type of injuries that would only happen because of more contact. If we had guys with leg injuries because they're being tackled to the ground I could see a concern but otherwise I don't think it's a valid argument. Even during the club med days here we used to have guys get hurt during camp - it's just a ****ty part of sports.

Jason in LA
08-07-2010, 10:11 AM
I played High School and coached my sons pee-wee team. So am I now qualified?;D

Sounds like you're more qualified than lostknight. lol

footstepsfrom#27
08-07-2010, 11:53 AM
I think fans in general believe their team suffers more injuries than others, but the OP brings to mind a question; I wonder if anyone has ever done any kind of study of the frequency or severity of injuries to players in different philosophical systems. Jimmy Johnson ran the toughest training camp in the NFL in the heat of Wichita Falls Texas where it was routinely over 100 degrees and they won Super Bowls doing that. Shanahan did it differently and was also successful...so who knows what the right solution is but I'd like to see somebody do an in depth study spanning several years of tracking this to see if there's any difference in the injuries under different situations. It's amazing that we've not seen the first preseason game and 4 key players are already gone. I don't know if it's training regimens or bad luck, perhaps both, perhaps neither. You would think that by this time the NFL would have some kind of standardized practice format based on doing research about how to keep their million dollar investments on the field and performing instead of on the IR. It's odd that they haven't got that in place I think.

LRtagger
08-07-2010, 05:23 PM
2007 season, I think I was mainly focused on Cutler, Marshall and Sheffler. At that point, the thinking pushed by the Broncos FO was part of the reason we got off to a good start was because they didn't practice in pads as often. At the time I blindly agreed with the front office, only to be disappointed in the collapse.

2008 season....all of our backs went on IR, champ went down for several games, DJ missed some games, Webster did as well I believe, both safeties missed time, I think we had some Oline injuries, Sheffler probably went down a couple times, etc etc etc. That was after a fluff camp and we still had an epic collapse.

LRtagger
08-07-2010, 05:41 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/injuries

Jason in LA
08-08-2010, 02:43 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/injuries

I wonder if there is a big melt down on Chicago Bears message boards. They must be really going crazy with the hitting drills and their conditioning program must be crap.

Or it could just be bad luck, which is the nature of the game.

uplink
08-08-2010, 03:28 PM
They need someone like a cooler in Vegas for the injury bug, sign Boss Bailey again.

lostknight
08-08-2010, 05:40 PM
2008 season....all of our backs went on IR, champ went down for several games, DJ missed some games, Webster did as well I believe, both safeties missed time, I think we had some Oline injuries, Sheffler probably went down a couple times, etc etc etc. That was after a fluff camp and we still had an epic collapse.


You keep trying to stake me to extremist positions - as if I endorse what Mike did. I didn't. I also would note that there have now been six injuries since I made this post, and the players got a day off. Seems like I am not the only one thinking they might have been pushing a wee bit too hard.

LRtagger
08-08-2010, 06:15 PM
You keep trying to stake me to extremist positions - as if I endorse what Mike did. I didn't. I also would note that there have now been six injuries since I made this post, and the players got a day off. Seems like I am not the only one thinking they might have been pushing a wee bit too hard.

Mike is brought into the equation because he essentially ran a camp completely opposite to what Josh runs...and his team still had injury problems. Your reasoning is that camp is too hard on the players. I am simply countering that by saying Mike's easy camp did not equate to fewer injuries.

I personally would rather risk a few injuries and get a physically and mentally tough team than have a fairy camp and put a soft team on the field. I think that is Josh's philosophy.

Maybe I missed the word from the staff's mouths, but all reports I've seen about no practice today due to injury concerns has been speculation. My speculation is no practice today because everyone played well yesterday and the guys deserved an additional day off.

uplink
08-08-2010, 08:16 PM
They need someone like a cooler in Vegas for the injury bug, sign Boss Bailey again.

They wouldn't have to look far, he is probably still in the training room behind some boxes. Shanny knew how to keep the injury bug coolers around: Boss, N. Jackson etc. That is why he always drafted em too.