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elsid13
08-01-2010, 06:28 PM
Well I hope you're right and we DO find equal production from someone likely selected later in the draft!!

Denver would have needed to kept some of the those picks that they threw at Smith, Quinn, or Tebow picks for us to have that depth.

Popps
08-01-2010, 06:35 PM
To summarize, then, roughly a dozen (or so it seems) skill-position players have taken cart rides in the early days of training camp, and not a single one ended up with a serious injury.

Which is exactly why I stated that on the early pages of this thread.

Could be bad, but teams are ultra-careful with guys this time of year.

tsiguy96
08-01-2010, 06:41 PM
The news gets better. From what I'm told, Moreno suffered a slight tear - basic strained hammy. 2-3 weeks. Only his hammy really knows.

viclombardi on twitter

Mogulseeker
08-01-2010, 06:43 PM
never mind

Requiem
08-01-2010, 06:43 PM
That's great news that it'll only be 2-3 weeks, should be enough time for him to rest and get some reps in before the season starts. Hopefully.

Rock Chalk
08-01-2010, 06:48 PM
No Sean is turning out to be quite the waste of a draft pick.

LongDongJohnson
08-01-2010, 06:50 PM
No Sean is turning out to be quite the waste of a draft pick.

yep. after only 1 season, he's already a waste.....

oubronco
08-01-2010, 06:52 PM
yep. after only 1 season, he's already a waste.....

and still better than the Alphonso pick :thumbsup:

Rock Chalk
08-01-2010, 06:56 PM
yep. after only 1 season, he's already a waste.....

Hurt 3 times last season and cant make it out of the first day of camp this season without getting hurt.

Sounds like a ****ing waste to me little dick.

Beantown Bronco
08-01-2010, 06:56 PM
No Sean is turning out to be quite the waste of a draft pick.

He put up the best #s of any rookie RB in the league last season, but ok.

Rock Chalk
08-01-2010, 06:57 PM
and still better than the Alphonso pick :thumbsup:

Which is sad.

Man-Goblin
08-01-2010, 06:57 PM
He put up the best #s of any rookie RB in the league last season, but ok.

Did.

Rock Chalk
08-01-2010, 06:58 PM
He put up the best #s of any rookie RB in the league last season, but ok.

Color me impressed. IN a year that was historically ****ty with RBs, he put up the best numbers. Awesome.

gyldenlove
08-01-2010, 06:58 PM
viclombardi on twitter

I forgive Lombardi a little more every day for having worked for Al Davis.

WolfpackGuy
08-01-2010, 06:58 PM
and still better than the Alphonso pick :thumbsup:

Hey now, Smiff was DEFINITELY worth Earl Thomas...

2KBack
08-01-2010, 06:58 PM
Maybe we should wait until he misses at least one game due to injury before we get too concerned

oubronco
08-01-2010, 07:01 PM
Maybe we should wait until he misses at least one game due to injury before we get too concerned

Exactly

Rock Chalk
08-01-2010, 07:03 PM
Maybe we should wait until he misses at least one game due to injury before we get too concerned

You can wait. But dude is injured more than baja's feelings when Rev slams him on the Mane, I think its fair to be concerned now.

LongDongJohnson
08-01-2010, 07:05 PM
Hurt 3 times last season and cant make it out of the first day of camp this season without getting hurt.

Sounds like a ****ing waste to me little dick.

how many games has he missed so far???

2KBack
08-01-2010, 07:17 PM
You can wait. But dude is injured more than baja's feelings when Rev slams him on the Mane, I think its fair to be concerned now.

I don't like that he seems to get tweaked, but I'm not full on concerned yet. It's not like he's Nate Jackson, tearing up camp only to get hurt in the first game of the season.

I backed Torain pretty heavy too though, so I'd rather not get my heart broken again.

bowtown
08-01-2010, 07:18 PM
Not really, what I mean is a strain is a partial, little tear in the muscle and generally speaking torn is it's ****ing torn the **** up.

Edit: Meant strain not sprain, w/e you guys knew

Bah, what do you know? Can we get Zona in here for his take on these sprain thingies?

bpc
08-01-2010, 07:22 PM
I really thought Knowshon was going to explode this year, and be one of the top 5 backs in the league. Gutted at this turn of events.

<<<<------ I'll have whatever he's having.

ZachKC
08-01-2010, 07:23 PM
Ladell Betts? Wynn?

FREE AGENT RB's:

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=RB&y=2010

Don't get Ladell. That would be 3 freaking guys from my highschool that go to the Broncos. Let Blue Springs High School go!!! :rofl:

Ugly Duck
08-01-2010, 07:26 PM
He put up the best #s of any rookie RB in the league last season, but ok.

Averages for 2009 rookie RBs with 100 rushes:

5.0 Shonn Green, JETS
4.5 Beanie Wells, ARI
4.1 LeSean McCoy, PHI
3.8 Knowshon Moreno, DEN

Hamrob
08-01-2010, 07:28 PM
When knowshon makes it through a season without missing time...we can cut him some slack. The kid is picked #12 and hasn't met those expectations yet (period).

Requiem
08-01-2010, 07:29 PM
Great job of being selective with yards per carry. How about touchdowns?

BlaK-Argentina
08-01-2010, 07:30 PM
<<<<------ I'll have whatever he's having.

Yeah, how does he dare be optimistic?

maher_tyler
08-01-2010, 07:31 PM
Uh, no, not really.

Orton doesn't create 7 in the box plays, that's just the reality and no big deal.

...BUT if you compound that with a potential lack of Knowshon AND Buckhalter, leaving unproven rookies at RB (with prot scheme issues), unproven rookies on the interior OL, unproven rookies on the outside at WR, and potentially missing Clady for a game or so, then yeah, we need a ****ing gimmick to make some space to make a play.

Get ****ed for trying to start **** that doesn't exist though so you ignorant ******.

I agree 110%!!

BlaK-Argentina
08-01-2010, 07:33 PM
When knowshon makes it through a season without missing time...we can cut him some slack. The kid is picked #12 and hasn't met those expectations yet (period).

Yeah that second year guy sure has had a lot of time to prove himself...

NYBronco
08-01-2010, 07:38 PM
Color me impressed. IN a year that was historically ****ty with RBs, he put up the best numbers. Awesome.

And he did it behind a weak OL under a new team system, QB, head coach and troubled players.

ZachKC
08-01-2010, 07:41 PM
KM's play completely underwhelmed me. I thought he had more ability to turn the corner and burn people. I just wasn't that impressed. However...there is a lot of room to grow. He is a young guy.

Popps
08-01-2010, 07:43 PM
Yeah, how does he dare be optimistic?


Moreno has already proven he can be an integral part of our winning formula. He showed in the first half of last season.

He's not Chris Johnson. Those looking for those kinds of numbers best look elsewhere.

But, he is a guy who can rack up 100 tough yards and allow us to control the ball and win games. He already proved it. He struggled in the 2nd half of the season with the rest of the offense. He also played with injuries.

Let the naysayers write him off. If it makes people happy to crap on the team... let them.

Personally, I'm going with optimism and faith. As Taco said a few days ago... that's all any fan has right now, and it feels pretty damned good to be optimistic.

oubronco
08-01-2010, 07:44 PM
Moreno has already proven he can be an integral part of our winning formula. He showed in the first half of last season.

He's not Chris Johnson. Those looking for those kinds of numbers best look elsewhere.

But, he is a guy who can rack up 100 tough yards and allow us to control the ball and win games. He already proved it. He struggled in the 2nd half of the season with the rest of the offense. He also played with injuries.

Let the naysayers write him off. If it makes people happy to crap on the team... let them.

Personally, I'm going with optimism and faith. As Taco said a few days ago... that's all any fan has right now, and it feels pretty damned good to be optimistic.

How many 100 yd games did he have again?

spdirty
08-01-2010, 08:03 PM
Moreno has already proven he can be an integral part of our winning formula. He showed in the first half of last season.

He's not Chris Johnson. Those looking for those kinds of numbers best look elsewhere.

But, he is a guy who can rack up 100 tough yards and allow us to control the ball and win games. He already proved it. He struggled in the 2nd half of the season with the rest of the offense. He also played with injuries.

Let the naysayers write him off. If it makes people happy to crap on the team... let them.

Personally, I'm going with optimism and faith. As Taco said a few days ago... that's all any fan has right now, and it feels pretty damned good to be optimistic.

1,200 yard backs are the least you would expect from a first rounder. Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, the types you would select top ten in a FF league draft are the only ones that are worth a top 15 pick.

This guy just screams bust to me after 1 year. Last year I saw someone that was slow, was too high, had little agility, did not have much power, and constantly FAILED in short yardage situations. Oh. And didnt break a single long run. I think his longest run last year was 30 yards. Hell, we got more out of Tatum Bell his first year than Knowshon.

Sorry, but I will forever hold that 12th overall selection against him UNTIL he proves me wrong and becomes a star.

spdirty
08-01-2010, 08:09 PM
If it takes awhile for the guy to mature like it did Larry Johnson then fine. I mean he's the 12th overall pick. You have to be patient with him. Frustrated, but patient.

TheChamp24
08-01-2010, 08:12 PM
Knowshon needs to step up his game from year 1, and this will hurt those chances of that happening.
To me, he never really showed the flashes of a 1st round draft pick last year. He was solid, but geez Olandis Gary was solid too for us. He had 6 games of a yards per carry under 3, granted 1 was where he only carried the ball for 5 times for 3 yards against Pittsburgh, but still, needs to improve.

thecool
08-01-2010, 08:12 PM
MileHighReport
While you never know with hamstrings, it appears the #Broncos dodged a bullet with Knowshon 3 Weeks...

broncosteven
08-01-2010, 08:34 PM
how many 100 yd games did he have again?

16?

baja
08-01-2010, 08:34 PM
Westbrook has not signed anywhere yet because he wants more money than he has been offered to this point. Betcha the Broncos give him his money now. Look for the Broncos to sign Westbrook next week

Popps
08-01-2010, 09:38 PM
How many 100 yd games did he have again?

He was close plenty of times, but when we were up.. our strategy was to give Jordan the late game carries.

But, I guess you'd have to be tuned in watching games to catch stuff like that.

baja
08-01-2010, 09:45 PM
Test

HEAV
08-01-2010, 09:46 PM
Broncos starting running back Knowshon Moreno is expected to be out three weeks after an MRI exam revealed no significant tear to his hamstring, according to an NFL source. Moreno suffered the injury Sunday morning during the Broncos’ first training-camp session.

A few minutes later, Broncos backup running back Correll Buckhalter left the field with an upper back pull. When Buckhalter experienced tingling in his extremities, he was sent to a local hospital as a precaution but was quickly released after his head, neck, back and spine were checked.

The expectation is the veteran Buckhalter will let the trauma rest for about a week.

All in all, it’s good news for the Broncos as both running backs should be back healthy well before the season opener Sept. 12 in Jacksonville.
----------

Great news!

Popps
08-01-2010, 09:46 PM
Sorry, but I will forever hold that 12th overall selection against him UNTIL he proves me wrong and becomes a star.

He won't be a star, but he could very likely be a productive back for us in the same way guys like Dillon were productive for New England.

He won't be the next Terrell Davis, so if you're looking for that... you're going to be disappointed.

He's a plodding, effective back when he's got a little blocking. He's not going to set the league on fire. But, I personally think with decent blocking, he racks up 1200-1300 yards or so, with nice receiving numbers and nice TD numbers. That, mixed with a speed back is a fine formula for winning games these days.

Who won the Superbowl last year?

How many yards did their leading rusher have?


This obsession with where Moreno was drafted v. the exact yardage total he produces is a fool's errand.

I understand that you want production from your high picks. I believe we GOT that production in the first half of last season until the blocking broke down.

He's a very young guy, on top of it.


I guess I've just watched football long enough not to hold goofy grudges against players based on what number they were picked. NFL teams **** up 3/4ths of their draft picks. Why do we all make believe that this is some sort of science?

If a guy contributes to a winning system, he's a productive pick... whether picked 12th or 112th.

Did anyone care where Rod Smith was picked when he was burning Eugene Robinson's ass in SB33?


You're going to swing and miss on about half of your draft picks... at least.
We certainly have the last decade or so. Let's give Moreno a chance to play a bit before throwing a pity party.

HEAV
08-01-2010, 09:46 PM
We dodged a huge cannon ball with this injury!

snowspot66
08-01-2010, 09:53 PM
He won't be a star, but he could very likely be a productive back for us in the same way guys like Dillon were productive for New England.

He actually compares very favorably with Dillon, Emmit Smith, and Tomlinson. Everybody bitches about the numbers but you have to look at the carries. He could have exceeded all of the stats those guys put up as rookies if he got the extra 100 carries those guys got.

Nobody ever looks at the number of attempts he got. Just the yards and TDs.

Kaylore
08-01-2010, 09:54 PM
Broncos starting running back Knowshon Moreno is expected to be out three weeks after an MRI exam revealed no significant tear to his hamstring, according to an NFL source. Moreno suffered the injury Sunday morning during the Broncos’ first training-camp session.

A few minutes later, Broncos backup running back Correll Buckhalter left the field with an upper back pull. When Buckhalter experienced tingling in his extremities, he was sent to a local hospital as a precaution but was quickly released after his head, neck, back and spine were checked.

The expectation is the veteran Buckhalter will let the trauma rest for about a week.

All in all, it’s good news for the Broncos as both running backs should be back healthy well before the season opener Sept. 12 in Jacksonville.
----------

Great news!
That's great news.

Man-Goblin
08-01-2010, 09:55 PM
Westbrook has not signed anywhere yet because he wants more money than he has been offered to this point. Betcha the Broncos give him his money now. Look for the Broncos to sign Westbrook next week

Westbrook has not signed anywhere because he doesn't want to go through a full camp. He and his new employer probably already know where he is going.

Shoemaker
08-01-2010, 09:56 PM
1,200 yard backs are the least you would expect from a first rounder. Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, the types you would select top ten in a FF league draft are the only ones that are worth a top 15 pick.

This guy just screams bust to me after 1 year. Last year I saw someone that was slow, was too high, had little agility, did not have much power, and constantly FAILED in short yardage situations. Oh. And didnt break a single long run. I think his longest run last year was 30 yards. Hell, we got more out of Tatum Bell his first year than Knowshon.

Sorry, but I will forever hold that 12th overall selection against him UNTIL he proves me wrong and becomes a star.

This seems a bit unreasonable.

I know Knowshon didn't exactly set the league on fire last year, but as has been mentioned, he did lead all rookies in rushing, and tacked on some pretty respectable receiving yards to boot.

Obviously, the short yardage situations were frustrating, but I think a big part of that was that our interior blocking was just completely terrible for the last 2/3rds of the season. I swear I read a statistic somewhere here during the offseason that Knowshown was actually 3rd among all RBs in Yards After Contact. (I really hope I'm not just making this up...can anybody back me up on this?)

I mean, he clearly hit the rookie wall late in the season, but you can't really see him as a bust already, can you? I certainly saw enough to make me very optimistic for what he could do for us if he gets some decent blocking in the middle of the oline.

Homer Simpson
08-01-2010, 10:03 PM
Yeah, how does he dare be optimistic?

Yup, being excited for the upcoming season apparently gets you insulted on here. Bloody hell.

HEAV
08-01-2010, 10:03 PM
That's great news.

:thumbs:

Looks like we will see more passing this camp! :thumbsup: Kyle, Brady adn Tebow need the work and the new rookie receivers will develope faster!!Booya!

broncosteven
08-01-2010, 10:08 PM
He was close plenty of times, but when we were up.. our strategy was to give Jordan the late game carries.

But, I guess you'd have to be tuned in watching games to catch stuff like that.

I had to look it up, Jordan had 25 carries for 86 yards in 9 games all year.

Since I had sometime while studying/listening to some Sor Guitar etudes I looked it up and in games where Knowshon was close to breaking 100 ypg Jordan didn't get any carries or his total yards wouldn't have put KM over 100 in that game. It did get real close in one game but still would have been short 3 yards but that matched his season high at 97 yards in one game.

BTW he hit 90 + twice, 80+ 3 times but also had a 5 carry for 3 yard day vs Pitt and a lot of 40-60 yard games. His high came in the loss at Washington.

So I guess you could say "in ONE game if KM had Jordan's carries he would have matched his season/career high YPG which was still short of 100 yards."

Broncoman13
08-01-2010, 10:12 PM
1,200 yard backs are the least you would expect from a first rounder. Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, the types you would select top ten in a FF league draft are the only ones that are worth a top 15 pick.

This guy just screams bust to me after 1 year. Last year I saw someone that was slow, was too high, had little agility, did not have much power, and constantly FAILED in short yardage situations. Oh. And didnt break a single long run. I think his longest run last year was 30 yards. Hell, we got more out of Tatum Bell his first year than Knowshon.

Sorry, but I will forever hold that 12th overall selection against him UNTIL he proves me wrong and becomes a star.




Not much power? When he was able to get past the LOS he showed plenty of power. In fact he was top 10 in broken tackles... Despite being far from a top ten back in carries. Knowshon ran with plenty of power but he struggled to make the final guy miss or the final broken tackle to make that long run. But he did have several nice 10-15 yard carries which is what you really want from a back. Give me a back that will run for 3, 5, 3, 15, 3, 4, 3, 8, 4, 3 on a consistent basis over a 1 yard, 2 yard, 1 yard, 40 yard, 1 yard, 2 yard.... Type back. The long plays are appealing and they put points on the board, but you need a consist 4-5 ypc back to sustain drives, especially when the defense just gets off of the field after a 10-12 play drive. I used to be the same way and only cared about having a guy that could break the 60 yard TD run. Loved Portis for that reason, but as I understand the game better and recognize diferemt things, you come to the realization that consistent 4 yard backs are the ones that allow you to sustain drives, keep the other team's offense off the field and keep your defense fresh. For the first 8 weeks of the season Knowshon was the rookie of the year. He dropped off a bit in the 2nd half and in the process became the first ever RB that lead all rookies in rushing to not win the RPOTY award against a non-QB. He played that well until we started having major injury problems. And while I think Moreno is good , I also think he is incapable of doing it by himself. Barry Sanders he is not, but the guy has Tiki Barber like potential and the fact that he will only miss three weeks means he will start to show that potential this year. Expect him to continue breaking tackles but also expect him to be in the right spot more this year leading to some more sizeable gains. Ryan Harris going down last year hurt more than anything b/c we are a run right team and Harris is pretty damn good at his job. I'm stoked to see what he will bring to the table... also excited to see more Brandon Lloyd!

Taco John
08-01-2010, 10:27 PM
Just for fun...

Hillis highlights: Running back Peyton Hillis has been taking advantage of his second-team reps with rookie Montario Hardesty sidelined with a twisted knee. During Sunday's practice, Hillis displayed excellent hands, catching several passes out of the backfield and turning them upfield for long runs. In a two-minute drill, he parlayed a short catch into a 26-yard blast that set up a field goal.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/08/cleveland_cornerback_eric_wrig.html

Kaylore
08-01-2010, 10:34 PM
Just for fun...

Hillis highlights: Running back Peyton Hillis has been taking advantage of his second-team reps with rookie Montario Hardesty sidelined with a twisted knee. During Sunday's practice, Hillis displayed excellent hands, catching several passes out of the backfield and turning them upfield for long runs. In a two-minute drill, he parlayed a short catch into a 26-yard blast that set up a field goal.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/08/cleveland_cornerback_eric_wrig.html

He'll get cut.

titan
08-01-2010, 10:35 PM
Moreno has already proven he can be an integral part of our winning formula. He showed in the first half of last season.

He's not Chris Johnson. Those looking for those kinds of numbers best look elsewhere.

But, he is a guy who can rack up 100 tough yards and allow us to control the ball and win games. He already proved it. He struggled in the 2nd half of the season with the rest of the offense. He also played with injuries.




Good analysis of Moreno. I thought in the first half of the season he started slow because of his preseason injury, yet still had some good games. And while he tailed off in the 2nd half of the season, his 2 best games were in the 2nd half (vs the Giants on Thanksgiving -19 carries 88 yards - and at KC the next week - 21 carries 86 yards 2 tds). In those games I saw more quick darting moves from Knowshon which reminded me of his college days.

ZONA
08-01-2010, 10:50 PM
He'll get cut.

That would be cool. Would love to see McD pick him back up since the others are wounded.

TheReverend
08-01-2010, 10:57 PM
He won't be a star, but he could very likely be a productive back for us in the same way guys like Dillon were productive for New England.

He won't be the next Terrell Davis, so if you're looking for that... you're going to be disappointed.

He's a plodding, effective back when he's got a little blocking. He's not going to set the league on fire. But, I personally think with decent blocking, he racks up 1200-1300 yards or so, with nice receiving numbers and nice TD numbers. That, mixed with a speed back is a fine formula for winning games these days.

Who won the Superbowl last year?

How many yards did their leading rusher have?


This obsession with where Moreno was drafted v. the exact yardage total he produces is a fool's errand.

I understand that you want production from your high picks. I believe we GOT that production in the first half of last season until the blocking broke down.

He's a very young guy, on top of it.


I guess I've just watched football long enough not to hold goofy grudges against players based on what number they were picked. NFL teams **** up 3/4ths of their draft picks. Why do we all make believe that this is some sort of science?

If a guy contributes to a winning system, he's a productive pick... whether picked 12th or 112th.

Did anyone care where Rod Smith was picked when he was burning Eugene Robinson's ass in SB33?


You're going to swing and miss on about half of your draft picks... at least.
We certainly have the last decade or so. Let's give Moreno a chance to play a bit before throwing a pity party.

I disagree with a whole lot of this, but not the intention.

Where we differ: Moreno definitely has the tools to be a star and set the league on fire.

Pendejo
08-01-2010, 11:03 PM
I disagree with a whole lot of this, but not the intention.

Where we differ: Moreno definitely has the tools to be a star and set the league on fire.

If I haven't interpreted your post wrong...I agree. Moreno has the goods.

Steve Sewell
08-01-2010, 11:08 PM
Some of the posters on this board seem to forget that Knowshon was a rookie running in a power scheme behind a depleted offensive line that had been built to execute a zone blocking scheme. Not to mention, he was also splitting time with a pretty effective change of pace guy in Buckhalter.

Yep, complete bust.

TheReverend
08-01-2010, 11:25 PM
If I haven't interpreted your post wrong...I agree. Moreno has the goods.

Nope, interpreted it correctly.

Watch that NYG over and over and over. He has some plays that are just pure genius... some of those "Jeeeeeesus Christ" ones.

Don't get me wrong, I view his 2009 season as unacceptable. I feel he had 3-4 games all season that are at the standard he should be holding himself to.

But he certainly has the tools to string that together EVERY week if he adds more focus and intensity.

His athleticism is there, his protection is there, his hands are there, his steps are there (albeit with a lack of patience at times)... just keep it ALL together.

Popps
08-01-2010, 11:45 PM
I had to look it up, Jordan had 25 carries for 86 yards in 9 games all year.

Since I had sometime while studying/listening to some Sor Guitar etudes I looked it up and in games where Knowshon was close to breaking 100 ypg Jordan didn't get any carries or his total yards wouldn't have put KM over 100 in that game. It did get real close in one game but still would have been short 3 yards but that matched his season high at 97 yards in one game.

BTW he hit 90 + twice, 80+ 3 times but also had a 5 carry for 3 yard day vs Pitt and a lot of 40-60 yard games. His high came in the loss at Washington.

So I guess you could say "in ONE game if KM had Jordan's carries he would have matched his season/career high YPG which was still short of 100 yards."

I seem to recall one specific instance where he would have broke 100 but got one called back on a penalty.

He also split carries with Buck a good portion of the time, which is the plan.

As for Jordan, he DID get late game carries in several games, and you have no idea what Moreno would have done with those carries.

Bottom line, we're splitting hairs over a guy who was productive in the first half of the season, is very young... and played behind a struggling line most of the year.

Writing him off like some here are doing is just plain silly.

Popps
08-01-2010, 11:45 PM
Some of the posters on this board seem to forget that Knowshon was a rookie running in a power scheme behind a depleted offensive line that had been built to execute a zone blocking scheme. Not to mention, he was also splitting time with a pretty effective change of pace guy in Buckhalter.

Yep, complete bust.

Exactly.

Popps
08-01-2010, 11:48 PM
I disagree with a whole lot of this, but not the intention.

Where we differ: Moreno definitely has the tools to be a star and set the league on fire.

I see him more as a workhorse back, not a feature back. I think he's got way more skills than people give him credit for, though... and with a dominant line, sure, he could be very productive.

I like the kid... a lot.

Build up the line, give him a change of pace back to alternate with and let's use the formula that seems to be working for most winning teams in the modern NFL.

enjolras
08-01-2010, 11:58 PM
Knowshon will only miss 3 weeks:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/08/01/knowshon-out-3-weeks-buckhalter-one-week/4104/

theAPAOps5
08-02-2010, 12:01 AM
Knowshon will only miss 3 weeks:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/08/01/knowshon-out-3-weeks-buckhalter-one-week/4104/

Bet you its more than 3 weeks.

Ugly Duck
08-02-2010, 12:06 AM
I swear I read a statistic somewhere here during the offseason that Knowshown was actually 3rd among all RBs in Yards After Contact. (I really hope I'm not just making this up...can anybody back me up on this?)

RBs with YACs over 70%
77.4% Larry Johnson
75 % Marshawn Lynch
71.6% Michael Bush
71.4% Tim Hightower
71.1% Clinton Portis

63% Knowshon Moreno (#16 in total yards after contact)

RBs with low YAC%
51% Thomas Jones
46% Brian Westbrook
36.9% Reggie Bush

http://stats-dont-lie.blogspot.com/2010/01/look-at-yards-gained-after-contact-for.html

Hulamau
08-02-2010, 12:09 AM
Knowshon will only miss 3 weeks:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/08/01/knowshon-out-3-weeks-buckhalter-one-week/4104/

Great news! if hes good to go in 3 weeks keep him out 6 weeks until Jacksonville at least to make damn sure he's 100% and fully back in shape.

Now we get to see who among the back ups is worthy while getting Moreno and Buck back for the full season. At least Knowshon will start the year with fresh legs ... looking on the bright side. ;D

snowspot66
08-02-2010, 12:21 AM
Bet you its more than 3 weeks.

He could miss all of preseason for all I care. As long as he's there for week one. I hope they give him an extra week or two actually. He can play in preseason game 3 and 4.

Florida_Bronco
08-02-2010, 12:28 AM
Why am i not surprised you're lying? I said that Harris was a guy that had some talent, fit our scheme well, but had underwent ba****rgery and that results in the pick being a major REACH. Because once you have a f'd up back, that doesn't get better. It only gets progressively WORSE. It leads to other injuries. I predicted that he's have numerous injury problems, which have come to pass.

The funny thing was, after the Houston preseason game of his sophomore year, when everybody was bashing him relentlessly for 3 holding penalties against Mario Williams, I hyped him as having a GREAT game, and the look of a breakout player... all of which came to pass two seasons ago.

Seems like i'm batting 2/2 on this, you're fronting, lying, and doing what you normally do... engage in shady business to make yourself feel better about yourself.

Grow up.

Oh Chris, I really wish you wouldn't have done that. Now I really have to call you out. Here is a list, in chronological order, of basically every post you made on Ryan from the he was drafted up until the 2008 preseason.

Shame on us as well for counting on Adam Meadows for anything and drafting another soft-ass in Ryan Harris.

Harris is the draft pick we needed? Honestly he didn't show me much at Notre Dame. His toughness is something that I already questioned coming out

I just thought it was a reach pick then and now I just think it was a foolish pick.

Personally, I'm not sold on Ryan Harris, never was even before the back surgery and I don't see him being one of our guys in a few years.

i was even less impressed at the senior bowl. DID YOU WATCH HIM?

Ryan Harris, get back in there you pu$$y.

I won't dog on Ryan Harris anymore but I thought he was a soft player before we drafted him. Good feet but thats all i've seen from him. Toughness, tenacity, things dominance comes from are not there with this guy, therefore I didn't like the pick.

I couldn't be lower on Ryan Harris. Time will tell where he stands besides in the trainers room with back issues.

I don't think much of Harris as well. As Kaylore stated, I would rather have a player that will actually log gametime than one who is getting injured every damn time somebody breathes on him.

I still don't know why we took soft ass Ryan Harris. His senior year was a letdown and now... OF COURSE after we draft him we found out he has some sort of back condition that might be cronic.

I hope Ryan Harris will be solid for us but i'm highly skeptical on his talent and his durability.

As I said before, I don't really believe in Ryan Harris... i'm luke warm on what he'll do for us long term.

The fact that Harris hasn't been able to beat out this schmuck says enough to me that the coaches don't believe in him and they busted that selection.

Who knows about Ryan Harris. I don't think he has it though.
I do not like the Ryan Harris selection

BTW, I don't think Harris will be a player for us. I just thought I would reiterate that.

One of my personal favorites...

Harris has been and will be a bust. Write it down, hold it over my head. Whatever. The only time he'll play is when we don't have a better option.

Continuing...

If you can't smell the stank coming off Ryan Harris's career... well, you are just dull my friend. Something isn't right on that end.

I've never felt good about his selection and you guys are only cementing the fact he'll be a bust. Damn shame we wasted a 3rd rounder on a scrub, system guy nobody really wanted to begin with.

Ryan Harris sucks. Just wanted to add that again. He sucked a year ago when we wasted a third round pick on him. Tyler Polumbus has a better chance at helping us at RT vs. him.

Granted you're correct that you hopped onto his cock after the Texans preseason game, but even then you were pretty dishonest about your previous views.

I'm not down on Harris yet even though I've been one of the most critical posters about him.

After that, you definitely turned into a pretty big Ryan Harris fan and more or less owned up to your failure of analysis, but you're peddling a bunch of bull**** by trying to convince everyone that you ever held a positive opinion of him prior to that.

As far as the injury goes, you spent much of that same time frame telling anyone who would listen that he would constantly have problems with his back. On that point you've absolutely been wrong as he hasn't had any issues with his back since it ruined his 2006 season and what amounted to (IIRC) a small "tweaking" type procedure in the 2007 preseason. Since about 4 weeks into his rookie season he's been completely healthy save for that dislocated toe last year, and I doubt even a flaming drama queen like yourself is going to try telling us that is the result of a back injury.

In short, the next time you want to call me a liar, you better make goddamn sure you got your facts straight.

bronco610
08-02-2010, 12:36 AM
Damn Florida, nice beat down!!!!!!!!

SonOfLe-loLang
08-02-2010, 12:37 AM
Oh Chris, I really wish you wouldn't have done that. Now I really have to call you out. Here is a list, in chronological order, of basically every post you made on Ryan from the he was drafted up until the 2008 preseason.



One of my personal favorites...



Continuing...



Granted you're correct that you hopped onto his cock after the Texans preseason game, but even then you were pretty dishonest about your previous views.



After that, you definitely turned into a pretty big Ryan Harris fan and more or less owned up to your failure of analysis, but you're peddling a bunch of bull**** by trying to convince everyone that you ever held a positive opinion of him prior to that.

As far as the injury goes, you spent much of that same time frame telling anyone who would listen that he would constantly have problems with his back. On that point you've absolutely been wrong as he hasn't had any issues with his back since it ruined his 2006 season and what amounted to (IIRC) a small "tweaking" type procedure in the 2007 preseason. Since about 4 weeks into his rookie season he's been completely healthy save for that dislocated toe last year, and I doubt even a flaming drama queen like yourself is going to try telling us that is the result of a back injury.

In short, the next time you want to call me a liar, you better make goddamn sure you got your facts straight.


Wow...pwned

theAPAOps5
08-02-2010, 12:41 AM
Oh Chris, I really wish you wouldn't have done that. Now I really have to call you out. Here is a list, in chronological order, of basically every post you made on Ryan from the he was drafted up until the 2008 preseason.



One of my personal favorites...



Continuing...



Granted you're correct that you hopped onto his cock after the Texans preseason game, but even then you were pretty dishonest about your previous views.



After that, you definitely turned into a pretty big Ryan Harris fan and more or less owned up to your failure of analysis, but you're peddling a bunch of bull**** by trying to convince everyone that you ever held a positive opinion of him prior to that.

As far as the injury goes, you spent much of that same time frame telling anyone who would listen that he would constantly have problems with his back. On that point you've absolutely been wrong as he hasn't had any issues with his back since it ruined his 2006 season and what amounted to (IIRC) a small "tweaking" type procedure in the 2007 preseason. Since about 4 weeks into his rookie season he's been completely healthy save for that dislocated toe last year, and I doubt even a flaming drama queen like yourself is going to try telling us that is the result of a back injury.

In short, the next time you want to call me a liar, you better make goddamn sure you got your facts straight.

I like BPC but his arrogance sometimes gets the best of him. Now he will be quick to call me out and slam me using some lame fan boy excuse. But fact is all he does is spout off a bunch of negativity and then pound his chest when he thinks he is right.

Thanks for posting this but in reality you could do the same for any member. The difference is most everyone understands they may be wrong. But BPC... well rather than admit or say he was wrong will just try to belittle you.

Its sad because he really is a damn smart football guy.

Kaylore
08-02-2010, 12:41 AM
Bet you its more than 3 weeks.

Probably. But still less than 8.

bronco610
08-02-2010, 12:46 AM
I like BPC but his arrogance sometimes gets the best of him. Now he will be quick to call me out and slam me using some lame fan boy excuse. But fact is all he does is spout off a bunch of negativity and then pound his chest when he thinks he is right.

Thanks for posting this but in reality you could do the same for any member. The difference is most everyone understands they may be wrong. But BPC... well rather than admit or say he was wrong will just try to belittle you.

Its sad because he really is a damn smart football guy.

Couldn't do it to me, I'm smart enough to keep my mouth shut.;D

theAPAOps5
08-02-2010, 12:49 AM
Couldn't do it to me, I'm smart enough to keep my mouth shut.;D

Yeah but where is the fun in that. Part of making predictions is being wrong and many of us are dead wrong.

I would hate to be perfect in my predictions like BPC thinks he is!

Come on old man, I mean bronco610, step out on a limb! :kiss:

bronco610
08-02-2010, 01:01 AM
Yeah but where is the fun in that. Part of making predictions is being wrong and many of us are dead wrong.

I would hate to be perfect in my predictions like BPC thinks he is!

Come on old man, I mean bronco610, step out on a limb! :kiss:

Nah, more fun to watch the kids put their foot in their mouth.:kiss:

Taco John
08-02-2010, 01:01 AM
I disagree with a whole lot of this, but not the intention.

Where we differ: Moreno definitely has the tools to be a star and set the league on fire.

God I hope that you're right. But I have to agree with Popps. Moreno is never going to be a star. He may be a workhorse back that gains respect for his contribution, but he's not going to drop many jaws in this league.

When we saw Terrell Davis his rookie season, we were given tastes of his greatness in the preseason. Same with Clinton Portis. Through their rookie years, they both did things that were electrifying. Moreno's next "electrifying" game will be his first. He's a lunchbox runner. He'll grind out 3 yards here and 3 yards there. But he doesn't seem to be the home run hitter that I would consider to qualify as "electrifying."

He's the kind of back who knows how to find holes and find the space to gain respectable ground. But, at least so far, he's not the guy who is going to make a secondary look silly, and drop jaws in laps.

Some will say that this is a backhanded compliment, but I think Knowshon compares to Shaun Alexander. It's not so back-handed when you look at the fact that Shaun Alexander managed a season where he had 27 touchdowns. Seahawks fans will tell you to look at their O-line for part of that success. My answer to them is that it's a team game, and it takes a disciplined and skilled runner to hit the holes - otherwise, there'd be someone else doing it instead. They weren't giving Shaun Alexander the ball as a favor to him.

I think Knowshon Moreno can be a solid, successful back for us. A superstar - not so much.

atomicbloke
08-02-2010, 01:06 AM
God I hope that you're right. But I have to agree with Popps. Moreno is never going to be a star. He may be a workhorse back that gains respect for his contribution, but he's not going to drop many jaws in this league.

When we saw Terrell Davis his rookie season, we were given tastes of his greatness in the preseason. Same with Clinton Portis. Through their rookie years, they both did things that were electrifying. Moreno's next "electrifying" game will be his first. He's a lunchbox runner. He'll grind out 3 yards here and 3 yards there. But he doesn't seem to be the home run hitter that I would consider to qualify as "electrifying."

He's the kind of back who knows how to find holes and find the space to gain respectable ground. But, at least so far, he's not the guy who is going to make a secondary look silly, and drop jaws in laps.

Some will say that this is a backhanded compliment, but I think Knowshon compares to Shaun Alexander. It's not so back-handed when you look at the fact that Shaun Alexander managed a season where he had 27 touchdowns. Seahawks fans will tell you to look at their O-line for part of that success. My answer to them is that it's a team game, and it takes a disciplined and skilled runner to hit the holes - otherwise, there'd be someone else doing it instead. They weren't giving Shaun Alexander the ball as a favor to him.

I think Knowshon Moreno can be a solid, successful back for us. A superstar - not so much.

I agree but we have yet to see what Moreno can do with a good O-line. If he had Clinton Portis' O-line with Nalen and Lepsis at their best, his numbers might have been better.

Florida_Bronco
08-02-2010, 01:29 AM
I like BPC but his arrogance sometimes gets the best of him. Now he will be quick to call me out and slam me using some lame fan boy excuse. But fact is all he does is spout off a bunch of negativity and then pound his chest when he thinks he is right.

Thanks for posting this but in reality you could do the same for any member. The difference is most everyone understands they may be wrong. But BPC... well rather than admit or say he was wrong will just try to belittle you.

Its sad because he really is a damn smart football guy.

See that's the thing. He had cast off Ryan Harris basically from the start, but did his mea culpa and came around quick in the 2008 season. I actually had alot of respect for how willing he was to stand up and admit he made a bad call, which just like you said, we all do. But now after Harris turns hurts his toe last year, he turns around and starts acting like he was right all along.

I generally don't like throwing people's old quotes in their faces like that as I think it's an asshole like move, but his dishonesty on this subject deserves it and calling me a liar was really crossing the line.

SouthStndJunkie
08-02-2010, 01:45 AM
God I hope that you're right. But I have to agree with Popps. Moreno is never going to be a star. He may be a workhorse back that gains respect for his contribution, but he's not going to drop many jaws in this league.

When we saw Terrell Davis his rookie season, we were given tastes of his greatness in the preseason. Same with Clinton Portis. Through their rookie years, they both did things that were electrifying. Moreno's next "electrifying" game will be his first. He's a lunchbox runner. He'll grind out 3 yards here and 3 yards there. But he doesn't seem to be the home run hitter that I would consider to qualify as "electrifying."

He's the kind of back who knows how to find holes and find the space to gain respectable ground. But, at least so far, he's not the guy who is going to make a secondary look silly, and drop jaws in laps.

Some will say that this is a backhanded compliment, but I think Knowshon compares to Shaun Alexander. It's not so back-handed when you look at the fact that Shaun Alexander managed a season where he had 27 touchdowns. Seahawks fans will tell you to look at their O-line for part of that success. My answer to them is that it's a team game, and it takes a disciplined and skilled runner to hit the holes - otherwise, there'd be someone else doing it instead. They weren't giving Shaun Alexander the ball as a favor to him.

I think Knowshon Moreno can be a solid, successful back for us. A superstar - not so much.

Yep....I don't see Knowshon as a bust, but I don't envision him being the type of elite back you hope to draft with a Top 10-12 pick.

I see Knowshon being a 1100-1250 yard a year back that will average around 4.2 ypc and score you 10-12 TDs a year with 25-30 catches and 300 yards receiving.

Above average production, but not an elite player.

I would love to see him come out and prove me wrong this year and maybe exceed my expectations and be a 1300-1400 yard a year back that will score 14+ TDs.

chex
08-02-2010, 06:17 AM
I agree but we have yet to see what Moreno can do with a good O-line. If he had Clinton Portis' O-line with Nalen and Lepsis at their best, his numbers might have been better.

This sums it up for me as well. The O-line had injuries and miscast players last year. This year, we have more players that fit the scheme we want, bigger and meaner, so I think that will be a big help as well.

While I agree that Moreno wasn't "electrifying", he did have some bursts negated by penalties, and he did score 9 TD's and just miss 1,000 yards. Yeah, I expected more too, but I want to see what he can do with a year's experience and an improved OL before pegging him as a certain type of back. Kid was explosive in college, playing in a tough conference, so I have some faith a better supporting cast can be an elixir for his game here.

TotallyScrewed
08-02-2010, 07:04 AM
:thumbs:

Looks like we will see more passing this camp! :thumbsup: Kyle, Brady adn Tebow need the work and the new rookie receivers will develope faster!!Booya!

Really that will/would be the best thing for the running game anyway. Prove that you can pass the ball!

I hope that Knowshawn is alright and back soon. I remember another, former, Broncos player that messed up a hammy and was out for many weeks and got on the, former, coaches **** list who then had a pretty darn good year. I hope that that, less the drama, happens again.

This game is made of injuries. Hopefully, they can avoid the big ones and play well through the little ones.

~Crash~
08-02-2010, 07:14 AM
Knowshon can be great I will give him all of this year before I would make any judgment on him . IMO we never did get to see what he was going to be able to do in the NFL like the last poster said our oline was miscast. and even this year they are going to be young so the last part of the year we should see were Knowshon will be as a RB.

Ray Finkle
08-02-2010, 07:24 AM
God I hope that you're right. But I have to agree with Popps. Moreno is never going to be a star. He may be a workhorse back that gains respect for his contribution, but he's not going to drop many jaws in this league.

When we saw Terrell Davis his rookie season, we were given tastes of his greatness in the preseason. Same with Clinton Portis. Through their rookie years, they both did things that were electrifying. Moreno's next "electrifying" game will be his first. He's a lunchbox runner. He'll grind out 3 yards here and 3 yards there. But he doesn't seem to be the home run hitter that I would consider to qualify as "electrifying."

He's the kind of back who knows how to find holes and find the space to gain respectable ground. But, at least so far, he's not the guy who is going to make a secondary look silly, and drop jaws in laps.

Some will say that this is a backhanded compliment, but I think Knowshon compares to Shaun Alexander. It's not so back-handed when you look at the fact that Shaun Alexander managed a season where he had 27 touchdowns. Seahawks fans will tell you to look at their O-line for part of that success. My answer to them is that it's a team game, and it takes a disciplined and skilled runner to hit the holes - otherwise, there'd be someone else doing it instead. They weren't giving Shaun Alexander the ball as a favor to him.

I think Knowshon Moreno can be a solid, successful back for us. A superstar - not so much.

Shaun Alexander is off....he was afraid of contact. I would compare Knowshown to a Chris Warren type.

meangene
08-02-2010, 07:52 AM
Here's the thing about Moreno - I don't think the offense is designed to make him a star. It is a diverse offense which will feature different players from week to week depending on matchups. There will be a rotation at RB as long as we have quality depth. Look at the NE offenses - who was the last "star" RB? What RB's need to do in our offense is be diverse and effective in a number of areas - running, pass receiving, pass protection, etc. The short passing game is very much like a run. In this sense, Moreno is a perfect fit in that he can do many things well and is a team-oriented player. I think there were a number of factors in his being less successful than hoped last year - I don't think he was ever completely healthy, he was forced to play when dinged because Buck was often more dinged, the o-line was a disaster due to age, injuries and being in transition to a more power-oriented system, and teams were stacking the line of scrimmage due to a lack of a downfield passing game. Hopefully, with some improvement in these other areas (and assuming Moreno comes back healthy) Moreno can become a very effective back in our system and a large part of the offense. But, to expect him to put up huge rushing numbers is unrealistic. If he puts up 1200 yards and catches 40 passes I think he will be doing everything we can expect.

Mr.Meanie
08-02-2010, 09:14 AM
Oh Chris, I really wish you wouldn't have done that. Now I really have to call you out. Here is a list, in chronological order, of basically every post you made on Ryan from the he was drafted up until the 2008 preseason.



One of my personal favorites...



Continuing...



Granted you're correct that you hopped onto his cock after the Texans preseason game, but even then you were pretty dishonest about your previous views.



After that, you definitely turned into a pretty big Ryan Harris fan and more or less owned up to your failure of analysis, but you're peddling a bunch of bull**** by trying to convince everyone that you ever held a positive opinion of him prior to that.

As far as the injury goes, you spent much of that same time frame telling anyone who would listen that he would constantly have problems with his back. On that point you've absolutely been wrong as he hasn't had any issues with his back since it ruined his 2006 season and what amounted to (IIRC) a small "tweaking" type procedure in the 2007 preseason. Since about 4 weeks into his rookie season he's been completely healthy save for that dislocated toe last year, and I doubt even a flaming drama queen like yourself is going to try telling us that is the result of a back injury.

In short, the next time you want to call me a liar, you better make goddamn sure you got your facts straight.

Goddamn, BPC just got completely undressed. Hopefully this doesn't ruin his reputation as an internet message board authority on everything football...

yerner
08-02-2010, 09:44 AM
I can't beleve you guys are so down on a guy that was within 53 yards of a 1000 as a rookie and a horrible o line. When Moreno got space he made some very exciting plays. Any number of spin moves and wiggles that made defenders look silly. Oddly enough, I believe he can have a similiar career to the guy everyone's been asking about, Brian Westbrooke. He also didn't have elite speed but with his hands and vision he made a nice career for himself and by the way, didn't have close to the rookie campaign that Moreno did.

People were having the same conversations about Ray Rice last year at this time.

Kaylore
08-02-2010, 09:55 AM
He could be a Curtis Martin type back. He was a star but never an electrifying one. Just steady. I do think calling him a bust isn't true. Its not like he sucks. Our line was bad last year.

ZachKC
08-02-2010, 10:01 AM
He could be a Curtis Martin type back. He was a star but never an electrifying one. Just steady. I do think calling him a bust isn't true. Its not like he sucks. Our line was bad last year.

I see it pretty much the way you see it here and TJ explained pretty well.

However...

I am not convinced this is the situation in Denver but...a lot of people kept letting LJ off the hook last year talking about how horrible the line was. They started Charles and well...it was a better result. Then people were talking about how the line suddenly improved. Not likely.

Sometimes it can get tough to tell where the bad spots are when you are talking about isolating evaluating the work of runners and their lines.

bowtown
08-02-2010, 10:03 AM
I see it pretty much the way you see it here and TJ explained pretty well.

However...

I am not convinced this is the situation in Denver but...a lot of people kept letting LJ off the hook last year talking about how horrible the line was. They started Charles and well...it was a better result. Then people were talking about how the line suddenly improved. Not likely.

Sometimes it can get tough to tell where the bad spots are when you are talking about isolating evaluating the work of runners and their lines.

When your RB gets hit behind the line the second he touches the ball, it's pretty easy to evaluate where the problem is.

ZachKC
08-02-2010, 10:15 AM
When your RB gets hit behind the line the second he touches the ball, it's pretty easy to evaluate where the problem is.

You could absolutely be right. But..again...I remember watching LJ slam into the backs of our offensive lineman and just being infuriated.

Who knows...its just something to consider.

Kaylore
08-02-2010, 10:31 AM
I see it pretty much the way you see it here and TJ explained pretty well.

However...

I am not convinced this is the situation in Denver but...a lot of people kept letting LJ off the hook last year talking about how horrible the line was. They started Charles and well...it was a better result. Then people were talking about how the line suddenly improved. Not likely.

Sometimes it can get tough to tell where the bad spots are when you are talking about isolating evaluating the work of runners and their lines.

They cut our center and didn't re-sign our guard and drafted three interior linemen. Then they traded away one of our running backs. That suggests the staff agrees its the line. Now if another back comes and dominates, then yes its mostly him. I personally think his production was one part being a rookie, one part a bad interior line, and one part Orton not having any kind of deep game so safety's stayed in most of the time.

broncosteven
08-02-2010, 10:44 AM
I seem to recall one specific instance where he would have broke 100 but got one called back on a penalty.

He also split carries with Buck a good portion of the time, which is the plan.

As for Jordan, he DID get late game carries in several games, and you have no idea what Moreno would have done with those carries.

Bottom line, we're splitting hairs over a guy who was productive in the first half of the season, is very young... and played behind a struggling line most of the year.

Writing him off like some here are doing is just plain silly.

I knew this argument was coming I had a sentence in the original post that I deleted. Jordan had a 3.5 YPC and KM a 3.9. Yes there was a slim chance that with one of those carries he could have ripped a 30+ yarder but if you base it off YPC KM could have broken 100 yards once with the carries that went to Jordan that game.

You could argue that others like Buck and Jordan took away yards/carries from KM but it is rare, especially today in the platoon age, where one back gets all the carries.

After looking at the stats last night and seeing TEAM rushing totals some games were pathetic, they had trouble breaking 100 yards as a team and had more games avg 120 yards than games near 200 or more total yards rushing.

One has to contribute that to the OL and could also blame scheme change and injury.

I think KM could be a solid RB giving you the pounding game controlling 10-15 yard gains but I don't know if he will ever be an elite guy with big numbers and long gainers. I was just crunching numbers because I had the time and wanted to find out if the statement was true, not to be a total hoser...this time...

SouthStndJunkie
08-02-2010, 10:51 AM
I can't beleve you guys are so down on a guy that was within 53 yards of a 1000 as a rookie and a horrible o line. When Moreno got space he made some very exciting plays. Any number of spin moves and wiggles that made defenders look silly. Oddly enough, I believe he can have a similiar career to the guy everyone's been asking about, Brian Westbrooke. He also didn't have elite speed but with his hands and vision he made a nice career for himself and by the way, didn't have close to the rookie campaign that Moreno did.

People were having the same conversations about Ray Rice last year at this time.

1000 yards is only 62.5 yards per game.

Knowshon averaged 3.8 ypc, while Buckhalter averaged 5.4 ypc behind the same line.

I'm not down on Knowshon, I simply don't think he is, or will be, an elite back.

2KBack
08-02-2010, 10:55 AM
1000 yards is only 62.5 yards per game.

Knowshon averaged 3.8 ypc, while Buckhalter averaged 5.4 ypc behind the same line.

I'm not down on Knowshon, I simply don't think he is, or will be, an elite back.

exactly how many short yardage carries do you think Buck had?

~Crash~
08-02-2010, 10:59 AM
I can't beleve you guys are so down on a guy that was within 53 yards of a 1000 as a rookie and a horrible o line. When Moreno got space he made some very exciting plays. Any number of spin moves and wiggles that made defenders look silly. Oddly enough, I believe he can have a similiar career to the guy everyone's been asking about, Brian Westbrooke. He also didn't have elite speed but with his hands and vision he made a nice career for himself and by the way, didn't have close to the rookie campaign that Moreno did.

People were having the same conversations about Ray Rice last year at this time.

and year before that the kid playing for the panthers...

SouthStndJunkie
08-02-2010, 10:59 AM
exactly how many short yardage carries do you think Buck had?

I don't know....have you got the stats for that?

I'm not going to get in a pissing contest about Knowshon, because I want him to do well and kick ass.

I simply don't see him as an elite back in this league.

Good back....quite possibly.....elite....no.

~Crash~
08-02-2010, 11:03 AM
He could be a Curtis Martin type back. He was a star but never an electrifying one. Just steady. I do think calling him a bust isn't true. Its not like he sucks. Our line was bad last year.

that is is not fair to them either ... the Oline was not built to be bruisers. Our Center was all world at zone so don't throw him under the buss.same thing with Hamilton .

2KBack
08-02-2010, 11:08 AM
I don't know....have you got the stats for that?

of course not. this is a situation where basic stats are misleading. All it takes is watching the game to see what situations different backs are used in. It's the same reason Tatum Bell had such great YPC as a back up.

Maybe you should consider how many TD's they each scored as an indicator of how they each were used.

oubronco
08-02-2010, 11:32 AM
Goddamn, BPC just got completely undressed. Hopefully this doesn't ruin his reputation as an internet message board authority on everything football...

:~ohyah!:

azbroncfan
08-02-2010, 11:35 AM
You could absolutely be right. But..again...I remember watching LJ slam into the backs of our offensive lineman and just being infuriated.

Who knows...its just something to consider.

All RB's run into the backs of lineman from time to time. LJ was very good for two years and that was it. Short high peak and Sperm ran him into the ground and he quit after getting paid.

ZachKC
08-02-2010, 11:40 AM
All RB's run into the backs of lineman from time to time. LJ was very good for two years and that was it. Short high peak and Sperm ran him into the ground and he quit after getting paid.

Oh really? Thanks for that tidbit because I was trying to make the point that a good running back never runs into the back of an offensive line. ::)

azbroncfan
08-02-2010, 11:47 AM
Then people were talking about how the line suddenly improved. Not likely.

.

So you don't think it is possible for an OL to improve throughout the year? It is pretty well known that a common denominator of good OL's is chemistry and games played together as a unit. KC improved as the season went on and the inserting of Charles also helped. Combo of both but it is very likely that they improved over the course of the season in the first year of a new system.

steeledude
08-02-2010, 12:05 PM
I'll say it:

In this new circumstance, sure would be nice to have an arm like Cutler to keep the 8th and 9th man out of the box...

You're right. And I'm Cutler's biggest fan, but I think if Brady Quinn gets his shot, though his arm isn't super charged or anything, he has the physicality to make defenses respect us a bit.

ZachKC
08-02-2010, 12:07 PM
So you don't think it is possible for an OL to improve throughout the year? It is pretty well known that a common denominator of good OL's is chemistry and games played together as a unit. KC improved as the season went on and the inserting of Charles also helped. Combo of both but it is very likely that they improved over the course of the season in the first year of a new system.

No, an offensive line could absolutely improve over the span of a year.

But what I am saying is the culprit isn't often that cut or dry. In the Chiefs case it was painfully obvious in hindsight.

Did the Chiefs offensive line improve as the season wore on? Probably.

Here are the stats as the year progressed. This is the starting RBs yardage.

1. LJ - 11 carries for 20 yds.
2. LJ - 24 carries for 78 yards
3. LJ - 19 carries for 38 yards (ouch)
4. LJ - 18 carries for 53 yards
5. LJ - 21 carries for 37 yards (ouch)
6. LJ - 23 carries for 83 yards
7. LJ - 16 carries for 49 yards
8. BYE
9. Charles - 6 carries for 36 yards
10. Charles - 18 carries for 103 yards
11. Charles - 17 carries for 58 yards
12. Charles - 14 carries for 93 yards
13. Charles - 20 carries for 143 yards
14. Charles - 25 carries for 154 yards
15. Charles - 24 carries for 102 yards
16. Charles - 25 carries for 259 yards

That is pretty dramatic. You see the first start in week 9 where the Chiefs were not really focused on making Charles a huge part of the offense with only 6 carries...however he got 6 yards a pop on those carries. The hurt starts on week 10 and except for a "meh" week 11 performance it is all pretty good until he just starts raping people at the end of the year.

JC's down game was just about LJ's average. Maybe the offensive line started eating their wheaties or something.

I know there were a lot of people offering up excused for LJ with the poor line play...but things are not always what they seem.

oubronco
08-02-2010, 12:11 PM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/08/01/knowshon-out-3-weeks-buckhalter-one-week/4104/ (http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/08/01/knowshon-out-3-weeks-buckhalter-one-week/4104/)

Knowshon out 3 weeks; Buckhalter one week

Broncos starting running back Knowshon Moreno is expected to be out three weeks after an MRI exam revealed no significant tear to his hamstring, according to an NFL source. Moreno suffered the injury Sunday morning during the Broncos’ first training-camp session.

A few minutes later, Broncos backup running back Correll Buckhalter left the field with an upper back pull. When Buckhalter experienced tingling in his extremities, he was sent to a local hospital as a precaution but was quickly released after his head, neck, back and spine were checked.

The expectation is the veteran Buckhalter will let the trauma rest for about a week.

All in all, it’s good news for the Broncos as both running backs should be back healthy well before the season opener Sept. 12 in Jacksonville.

toad
08-02-2010, 12:18 PM
My gut is that Moreno will develop into a successful "grinding" back...as others have noted one that grinds outs 1200 yards and 10 or so TDs a year.

For now, he doesn't seem to have that "home run hitter" capabilities.

As a side note, I'm still a bit shocked we selected him so high....during McD's hey-day in New England isn't it correct to say they never, per se, used a "featured back?" Short of the Corey Dillon Super Bowl season it seems to be a mixed cast (Mauroney, Faulk, Fred Taylor, a mix of random FBs, etc) with no back truely being a workhorse.

Seems like, for the #12 pick, you want a true workhorse back...

oubronco
08-02-2010, 12:19 PM
The Sled

I watched the running backs attack the sled while limited to making contact with their shoulder. Knowshon Moreno stood out, until 5′10″ Toney Baker came and destroyed every other player’s previous marks. “I want to hear metal!”, the assistant coach screamed at his running backs, referring to the sound the sled makes when hit with enough force. Baker answered his coach’s call with sled-smacking power, to the coach’s cheers.


...Baker looked the strongest and by far the most physical. Smith had a strong practice — I liked his vision and determination when hitting the hole in team drills, while Ball showed a bit of impressive shiftiness...


Tight end Richard Quinn did so consistently against a number of players. He’s a wild blocker — his arms flail a bit and he boasts some crazy footwork — but it got the job done. Running back Toney Baker also had a few nice blocks here.

http://broncotalk.net/2010/08/16268/...unday-aug-1st/ (http://broncotalk.net/2010/08/16268/broncos-blog/bt-camp-scout-sunday-aug-1st/)
<!-- / message -->

SouthStndJunkie
08-02-2010, 12:25 PM
The Sled

I watched the running backs attack the sled while limited to making contact with their shoulder. Knowshon Moreno stood out, until 5′10″ Toney Baker came and destroyed every other player’s previous marks. “I want to hear metal!”, the assistant coach screamed at his running backs, referring to the sound the sled makes when hit with enough force. Baker answered his coach’s call with sled-smacking power, to the coach’s cheers.


...Baker looked the strongest and by far the most physical. Smith had a strong practice — I liked his vision and determination when hitting the hole in team drills, while Ball showed a bit of impressive shiftiness...


Tight end Richard Quinn did so consistently against a number of players. He’s a wild blocker — his arms flail a bit and he boasts some crazy footwork — but it got the job done. Running back Toney Baker also had a few nice blocks here.

http://broncotalk.net/2010/08/16268/...unday-aug-1st/ (http://broncotalk.net/2010/08/16268/broncos-blog/bt-camp-scout-sunday-aug-1st/)
<!-- / message -->

Toney Baker is a bowling ball....I enjoyed watching him tote the rock at NC State.

oubronco
08-02-2010, 12:26 PM
Toney Baker is a bowling ball....I enjoyed watching him tote the rock at NC State.

I think he is going to surprise alot of people around here

Requiem
08-02-2010, 12:26 PM
I don't think Moreno has to be a star back in order for our team to be successful. I was absolutely thrilled when we picked him, and one of his biggest supporters throughout his collegiate career on this board. That said, I don't think we'll see any epic 1,500+ yard seasons from him rushing. He'll never put up Chris Johnson's numbers, but that doesn't mean he can't be an important part to our team. I think the Curtis Martin comparisons are actually really solid.

I see Moreno being a guy who will average ~ 1,250 yards rushing, but also catch quite a few passes and gain several hundred yards in that area and hover around 10 touchdowns per season. If you're wondering, I think that is definitely worth the 12th pick in the draft. Who knows though? He could do worse, but he could do a lot better. The MCL sprain last year definitely impacted him, and no doubt this hamstring strain will as well.

I am hoping that they rest Moreno more than three weeks. I'd be stoked if he got some reps in the final pre-season game at Minnesota. I'd love for him to be completely ready by week one, and confident that he will be. While he didn't have a fantastic rookie season, I don't think that it was a failure by any means. Our offensive line was pathetic, had a few injuries and poor players like Hamilton were replaced.

Do I expect our line to do better this year with Clady coming off an ACL injury, Harris coming off his toe injury and the prospect of two rookies starting on our interior? Not sure. I'm just hoping they are prepared well enough to execute.

Requiem
08-02-2010, 12:28 PM
I think he is going to surprise alot of people around here

Yeah, he could -- if he stays healthy. :thumbsup:

Broncobiv
08-02-2010, 12:29 PM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/08/01/knowshon-out-3-weeks-buckhalter-one-week/4104/ (http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/08/01/knowshon-out-3-weeks-buckhalter-one-week/4104/)

Knowshon out 3 weeks; Buckhalter one week

Broncos starting running back Knowshon Moreno is expected to be out three weeks after an MRI exam revealed no significant tear to his hamstring, according to an NFL source. Moreno suffered the injury Sunday morning during the Broncos’ first training-camp session.

A few minutes later, Broncos backup running back Correll Buckhalter left the field with an upper back pull. When Buckhalter experienced tingling in his extremities, he was sent to a local hospital as a precaution but was quickly released after his head, neck, back and spine were checked.

The expectation is the veteran Buckhalter will let the trauma rest for about a week.

All in all, it’s good news for the Broncos as both running backs should be back healthy well before the season opener Sept. 12 in Jacksonville.

:sunshine::thumbs:

azbroncfan
08-02-2010, 12:41 PM
No, an offensive line could absolutely improve over the span of a year.

But what I am saying is the culprit isn't often that cut or dry. In the Chiefs case it was painfully obvious in hindsight.

Did the Chiefs offensive line improve as the season wore on? Probably.

Here are the stats as the year progressed. This is the starting RBs yardage.

1. LJ - 11 carries for 20 yds.
2. LJ - 24 carries for 78 yards
3. LJ - 19 carries for 38 yards (ouch)
4. LJ - 18 carries for 53 yards
5. LJ - 21 carries for 37 yards (ouch)
6. LJ - 23 carries for 83 yards
7. LJ - 16 carries for 49 yards
8. BYE
9. Charles - 6 carries for 36 yards
10. Charles - 18 carries for 103 yards
11. Charles - 17 carries for 58 yards
12. Charles - 14 carries for 93 yards
13. Charles - 20 carries for 143 yards
14. Charles - 25 carries for 154 yards
15. Charles - 24 carries for 102 yards
16. Charles - 25 carries for 259 yards

That is pretty dramatic. You see the first start in week 9 where the Chiefs were not really focused on making Charles a huge part of the offense with only 6 carries...however he got 6 yards a pop on those carries. The hurt starts on week 10 and except for a "meh" week 11 performance it is all pretty good until he just starts raping people at the end of the year.

JC's down game was just about LJ's average. Maybe the offensive line started eating their wheaties or something.

I know there were a lot of people offering up excused for LJ with the poor line play...but things are not always what they seem.

Yeah Charles is a definate upgrade over Diaper boy but the OL deserves credit too. I think the quality of defenses faced has to count for something too.

Beantown Bronco
08-02-2010, 01:15 PM
As a side note, I'm still a bit shocked we selected him so high....during McD's hey-day in New England isn't it correct to say they never, per se, used a "featured back?" Short of the Corey Dillon Super Bowl season it seems to be a mixed cast (Mauroney, Faulk, Fred Taylor, a mix of random FBs, etc) with no back truely being a workhorse.

Seems like, for the #12 pick, you want a true workhorse back...

Maroney was drafted by them in the first.....

Captain 'Dre
08-02-2010, 03:15 PM
My gut is that Moreno will develop into a successful "grinding" back...as others have noted one that grinds outs 1200 yards and 10 or so TDs a year.

For now, he doesn't seem to have that "home run hitter" capabilities.

As a side note, I'm still a bit shocked we selected him so high....during McD's hey-day in New England isn't it correct to say they never, per se, used a "featured back?" Short of the Corey Dillon Super Bowl season it seems to be a mixed cast (Mauroney, Faulk, Fred Taylor, a mix of random FBs, etc) with no back truely being a workhorse.

Seems like, for the #12 pick, you want a true workhorse back...

I've wondered the same thing..... OFTEN!

Knowshon seems more like a complementary back to me, very much along the lines of ex-Bill Ronnie Harmon. Great moves, good hands, average speed, and needs space to work his magic on defenders.

ZachKC
08-02-2010, 03:26 PM
Last year, over a third of [Moreno's] rushes netted 1, 0 or negative yards. According to Pro Football Focus he averaged a paltry 2.4 yards after contact per attempt, the 38th-best mark in the league.

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/First-Down-Moreno-s-hammy-pop-heard-round-fa?urn=fantasy-259701

oubronco
08-02-2010, 03:35 PM
Last year, over a third of [Moreno's] rushes netted 1, 0 or negative yards. According to Pro Football Focus he averaged a paltry 2.4 yards after contact per attempt, the 38th-best mark in the league.

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/First-Down-Moreno-s-hammy-pop-heard-round-fa?urn=fantasy-259701

WooHoo now go away

Br0nc0Buster
08-02-2010, 03:37 PM
Last year, over a third of [Moreno's] rushes netted 1, 0 or negative yards. According to Pro Football Focus he averaged a paltry 2.4 yards after contact per attempt, the 38th-best mark in the league.

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/First-Down-Moreno-s-hammy-pop-heard-round-fa?urn=fantasy-259701

I would think that would support the thought that the run blocking was poor

if he cant even get past the line of scrimmage a third of the time that would indicate the line isnt doing a good job of opening holes

bronco militia
08-02-2010, 03:39 PM
Prior to the injury, the Y! brass' consensus rank for Moreno was No. 37 overall (No. 19 among RBs). Scott Pianowski was particularly fond of the former Bulldog. Yours truly … not so much. His sizable workload is attractive, but question marks about Denver's offensive line, Marshall-less passing game and the runner's general timidity lend pause. Last year, over a third of his rushes netted 1, 0 or negative yards. According to Pro Football Focus he averaged a paltry 2.4 yards after contact per attempt, the 38th-best mark in the league. That's Julius Jones(notes) territory folks. Tim Tebow's(notes) possible goal-line poaching further complicates matters.

HAT
08-02-2010, 04:03 PM
Last year, over a third of [Moreno's] rushes netted 1, 0 or negative yards. According to Pro Football Focus he averaged a paltry 2.4 yards after contact per attempt, the 38th-best mark in the league.

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/First-Down-Moreno-s-hammy-pop-heard-round-fa?urn=fantasy-259701

If you quote stats from a fantasy football blog while discussing actual football...you might be a Chiefs fan.

ZachKC
08-02-2010, 04:04 PM
WooHoo now go away

Nah, I was here before you. I will probably be here after you as well.

errand
08-02-2010, 05:29 PM
Just for fun...

Hillis highlights: Running back Peyton Hillis has been taking advantage of his second-team reps with rookie Montario Hardesty sidelined with a twisted knee. During Sunday's practice, Hillis displayed excellent hands, catching several passes out of the backfield and turning them upfield for long runs. In a two-minute drill, he parlayed a short catch into a 26-yard blast that set up a field goal.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/08/cleveland_cornerback_eric_wrig.html

Amazing...the guys you latch onto and have man crushes on. Griese...Hillis. Before i even opened this thread I knew you'd have posted something to the likes of "if only Hillis was still here":rofl:

elsid13
08-02-2010, 05:43 PM
Amazing...the guys you latch onto and have man crushes on. Griese...Hillis. Before i even opened this thread I knew you'd have posted something to the likes of "if only Hillis was still here":rofl:

Just for you Errand

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nF_th6gJnr4&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nF_th6gJnr4&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

WolfpackGuy
08-02-2010, 05:46 PM
I think Moreno will have a decent career, but he probably won't live up to #12.

Good to see his injury isn't serious.

24champ
08-02-2010, 06:04 PM
If you quote stats from a fantasy football blog while discussing actual football...you might be a Chiefs fan.

:rofl:

24champ
08-02-2010, 06:06 PM
Amazing...the guys you latch onto and have man crushes on. Griese...Hillis. Before i even opened this thread I knew you'd have posted something to the likes of "if only Hillis was still here":rofl:

Hillis was talented, but it was clear he didn't have what it takes upstairs. Meaning, he wasn't smart enough to be in McDaniels system.

oubronco
08-04-2010, 03:48 PM
<TABLE border=0 width=630><TBODY><TR><TD width="80%">Broncos | Knowshon Moreno expected to miss two preseason games
</TD><TD width="20%"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:57:24 -0400
Denver Broncos (http://www.orangemane.com/team/15/nfl) RB Knowshon Moreno (http://www.orangemane.com/player/19988/nfl) (hamstring) is not expected to return to practice until after the team's second preseason game, reports The Denver Post (http://www.orangemane.com/link/184)'s Mike Klis.
<HR>
<TABLE border=0 width=630><TBODY><TR><TD width="80%">Broncos | Correll Buckhalter expected to return Monday
</TD><TD width="20%"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:56:59 -0400
Denver Broncos (http://www.orangemane.com/team/15/nfl) RB Correll Buckhalter (http://www.orangemane.com/player/1482/nfl) (stinger) has been medically cleared to return to practice, but the team likely will hold him out until Monday, Aug. 9, reports The Denver Post (http://www.orangemane.com/link/184)'s Mike Klis.


Read more: http://www.kffl.com/team/15/nfl#ixzz0vfzdnGzU

Taco John
08-04-2010, 04:11 PM
While the Knowshon injury news is decent, it's always a bad sign to start a season with a hammy tweak - especially for a runningback.

Hamstring injuries are so frustrating.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-04-2010, 04:15 PM
Hillis was talented, but it was clear he didn't have what it takes upstairs. Meaning, he wasn't smart enough to be in McDaniels system.

Im not a Hillis fanboy, but he certainly had what it took to run. Perhaps not pass protection, perhaps he was a ****ty blocker, but he was our goalline guy at the beginning of the season and was taken out of that role kind of early...and it wasnt like our other guys were doing a bang up job in his absense. Maybe he pissed off coach, maybe he's lazy, i dunno, but i doubt his football acumen was the sole thing leaving him off the field

outdoor_miner
08-04-2010, 04:28 PM
While the Knowshon injury news is decent, it's always a bad sign to start a season with a hammy tweak - especially for a runningback.

Hamstring injuries are so frustrating.

Yep... In addition to the potential for re-injury, I'm sure it will be a setback to his confidence. I don't think he ever recovered mentally from his injury early last year. Not to be negative, but I don't think it bodes well for this season. Hope my gut feeling is wrong.

bpc
08-08-2010, 04:42 PM
Oh Chris, I really wish you wouldn't have done that. Now I really have to call you out. Here is a list, in chronological order, of basically every post you made on Ryan from the he was drafted up until the 2008 preseason.



One of my personal favorites...



Continuing...



Granted you're correct that you hopped onto his cock after the Texans preseason game, but even then you were pretty dishonest about your previous views.



After that, you definitely turned into a pretty big Ryan Harris fan and more or less owned up to your failure of analysis, but you're peddling a bunch of bull**** by trying to convince everyone that you ever held a positive opinion of him prior to that.

As far as the injury goes, you spent much of that same time frame telling anyone who would listen that he would constantly have problems with his back. On that point you've absolutely been wrong as he hasn't had any issues with his back since it ruined his 2006 season and what amounted to (IIRC) a small "tweaking" type procedure in the 2007 preseason. Since about 4 weeks into his rookie season he's been completely healthy save for that dislocated toe last year, and I doubt even a flaming drama queen like yourself is going to try telling us that is the result of a back injury.

In short, the next time you want to call me a liar, you better make goddamn sure you got your facts straight.

Wow, I love this and feel honored! You looked up four years worth of posts. I think that's great!

Admitting fault where it was, I didn't wait long to get after his ass but in retrospect, watching the 2007 offensive line was depressing and if he couldn't beat out Adam Meadows or how ****ty Ryan Pears or Matt Lepsis was, damn right I was down on him.

In the end the original problem was his health. That was my key issue. So where are we 3 years after the fact? He didn't have but one play his first year because of back surgery. In year 2 he was great. And if I recall, i was one of the first people to acknowledge HOW MUCH BETTER he looked starting in the preseason. Conveniently it looks like that was not posted. Year 3, played a few games, ended up injured. Again. What was my key issue?

These posts take me back and I'll tell you why. Before I had kids, football, namely the Denver Broncos was my life. We lost on Sunday, I was pissed until Thursday. Now if we lose on Sunday, i'm commenting on how pretty it is outside that afternoon while BBQ'ing. Anger definitely got the best of me back in the days. No apologies for it since we're all supposed to be fans right?

I stand by my key arguments. I'm greatly concerned about Ryan Harris' injury history. Missing the majority of two out of three years is not an encouraging sign. When he's on the field, he has looked great. Let's hope he can stay there and produce for us. Am i counting on it? No.

Florida_Bronco
08-08-2010, 04:52 PM
Wow, I love this and feel honored! You looked up four years worth of posts. I think that's great! That's the fun thing about VBulletin. I put in "Harris" and narrow the search down to your user name and voila, there's the posts. After that it was simply a matter of cutting and pasting the relevant ones.

In the end the original problem was his health. And his talent, according to you.

And if I recall, i was one of the first people to acknowledge HOW MUCH BETTER he looked starting in the preseason. Conveniently it looks like that was not posted. It wasn't posted?

Granted you're correct that you hopped onto his cock after the Texans preseason game, but even then you were pretty dishonest about your previous views.

After that, you definitely turned into a pretty big Ryan Harris fan and more or less owned up to your failure of analysis, but you're peddling a bunch of bull**** by trying to convince everyone that you ever held a positive opinion of him prior to that.

Year 3, played a few games, ended up injured. Again. What was my key issue? Ahh but his injury was not at all related to his previous back injury that you had all but assured us would be a constant issue, so don't act like you get to claim victory there.

These posts take me back and I'll tell you why. Before I had kids, football, namely the Denver Broncos was my life. We lost on Sunday, I was pissed until Thursday. Now if we lose on Sunday, i'm commenting on how pretty it is outside that afternoon while BBQ'ing. Anger definitely got the best of me back in the days. No apologies for it since we're all supposed to be fans right? You sure seem to blame alot of your failures on having a family.

bpc
08-08-2010, 04:58 PM
That's the fun thing about VBulletin. I put in "Harris" and narrow the search down to your user name and voila, there's the posts. After that it was simply a matter of cutting and pasting the relevant ones.

And his talent, according to you.

It wasn't posted?



Ahh but his injury was not at all related to his previous back injury that you had all but assured us would be a constant issue, so don't act like you get to claim victory there.

You sure seem to blame alot of your failures on having a family.

1. He was drafted into a system that was dying in the NFL. People were leaving the Broncos style small linemen behind. Yeah, I was slightly down on his skillset. Injuries more so.

2. No, not really. You missed a bunch. It's cool though. Don't need the credit for it.

3. Injury prone is injury prone. One issue i've said all the time is once you have back issues, they never alleviate. It only puts more pressure on other areas. It's like running with a rock in your shoe. You can keep running but it's uncomfortable as hell and it will start changing the way you move putting pressure on other areas which will inevitably break-down.

4. What failure? You consider me being vocal on a broncos player which was for the most part totally correct failure? You consider anything said on this board as relevant to life in any way shape or form? Ha ha. Ok. Next.

Florida_Bronco
08-08-2010, 05:31 PM
Yeah, I was slightly down on his skillset. Yeah, just "slightly" right?

2. No, not really. You missed a bunch. It's cool though. Don't need the credit for it. You hoping on the Ryan Harris bandwagon in 2008 has never been in dispute though, so what's the point of listing those quotes?

3. Injury prone is injury prone. One issue i've said all the time is once you have back issues, they never alleviate. It only puts more pressure on other areas. It's like running with a rock in your shoe. You can keep running but it's uncomfortable as hell and it will start changing the way you move putting pressure on other areas which will inevitably break-down. And to date, none of these issues have manifested in any way, shape or form.

You might as well just give up defending yourself on this one. You acted like a drama queen, popped off at the mouth and by your own admission ended up eating those words. I was just the guy who slapped you in the face with it when you figured everyone would have forgotten your previous stances.

4. What failure? You consider me being vocal on a broncos player which was for the most part totally correct failure? You consider anything said on this board as relevant to life in any way shape or form? Ha ha. Ok. Next. Oh gee, let's count the ways.

"I failed in my football career because my family wasn't connected"

"My long term unemployment is because I was taking care of my family"

"I'm a moral and political bigot because I want to protect my family from a world that contains people that sometime look, act and believe differently than they do."

I'm sure there is more, but these are the ones I remember just from recent discussions. I just find it funny how someone like yourself is so quick to hop up on the "personal responsibility" soap box when talking about others, yet is equally quick to jump down off that soapbox and offer up his family as the scapegoat for the multiple personal failures you've suffered in your life. For your sake I hope they never see the things you post here, because I know if I was your child or wife, I'd be greatly offended at your thinly veiled resentment.