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McDman
07-31-2010, 02:38 PM
So I've been pondering this while at work and It'd be interesting to hear what people think . Let's say for hypothetical purposes Orton sucks it up and Quinn gets his shot.

What will McD do if he comes in and tears it up for the next two years? What do we do with Tebow? Does McD continue to play Quinn or does his ego keep giving Tebow a shot? I can't imagine him wanting to play a situational/backup role his whole career.

theAPAOps5
07-31-2010, 02:44 PM
So I've been pondering this while at work and It'd be interesting to hear what people think . Let's say for hypothetical purposes Orton sucks it up and Quinn gets his shot.

What will McD do if he comes in and tears it up for the next two years? What do we do with Tebow? Does McD continue to play Quinn or does his ego keep giving Tebow a shot? I can't imagine him wanting to play a situational/backup role his whole career.

Best player will play. Its a rare but great problem to have. Either way if they both are showing potential then you can for sure get a lot back in trade.

But the possibility of that is not very high just based on history.

Hogan11
07-31-2010, 02:46 PM
He'll play Quinn and then deal him when he thinks Tebow is ready.

McDman
07-31-2010, 02:48 PM
He'll play Quinn and then deal him when he thinks Tebow is ready.

That's what I'm afraid of.

Hogan11
07-31-2010, 02:53 PM
That's what I'm afraid of.

It wouldn't be what I wanted either, but it's what I think he'd do under the circumstances you laid out.

To be honest, I'm skeptical that Quinn is ever going to get any real oppertunity to start.

McDman
07-31-2010, 02:55 PM
Worst case scenario is he trades Quinn thinking Tebow will come into his own and he fails.

I still don't know how I feel about the pick.

McDman
07-31-2010, 02:55 PM
Worst case scenario is he trades Quinn thinking Tebow will come into his own and he fails.

I still don't know how I feel about the pick.

Rabb
07-31-2010, 03:00 PM
if the best guy is starting, I couldn't care less

Kaylore
07-31-2010, 03:01 PM
That's what I'm afraid of.

You're afraid of a hypothetical that you made up in your head That is extremely unlikely? Rest assured: Quinn is huge mangina who has career backup all over him. Every team in the league would love to have that "problem".

Br0nc0Buster
07-31-2010, 03:03 PM
If Brady plays an elite level, then I doubt Josh would trade him away

Even though Josh really likes Tebow, if Quinn comes out there looking like Tom Brady then I would think unless Tebow elite in practice as well that he would be more willing to keep Quinn and deal Tebow

Quinn is still young as well, so he could still be a long term solution

Popps
07-31-2010, 03:06 PM
I like having Quinn on the team, but I do fear that he's a career back-up.

Of course, it's impossible to judge anything from what happened in Cleveland. So, I could be wrong.

But, yea... if Quinn plays lights-out, he'll simply keep the starting gig and Tebow will be a reserve/utility player for a bit. McDaniels isn't going to fix what isn't broken. Guarantee you that.

McDman
07-31-2010, 03:13 PM
You're afraid of a hypothetical that you made up in your head That is extremely unlikely? Rest assured: Quinn is huge mangina who has career backup all over him. Every team in the league would love to have that "problem".

Haha, no, I'm afarid he'll get rid of Orton or Quinn regardless of how well they're doing because he has put a lot of his future into Tebow.

Kaylore
07-31-2010, 03:19 PM
Haha, no, I'm afarid he'll get rid of Orton or Quinn regardless of how well they're doing because he has put a lot of his future into Tebow.
The one thing McDaniels loves more than Tebow is winning.

bap454
07-31-2010, 03:27 PM
The whole plummer/cutler saga all over again-without the star power these pretty boys have.

HAT
07-31-2010, 03:57 PM
Haha, no, I'm afarid he'll get rid of Orton or Quinn regardless of how well they're doing because he has put a lot of his future into Tebow.

Orton had a career year last year. No reason to believe he will regress.

And don't believe the MSM hype that McD's future is tied to Tebows. TT was a luxury pick that McD did some maneuvering for in order to trade back into RD1.

I'm of the opinion that TT will succeed here eventually. But even if he doesn't, it will simply be a page in McD's tenure.....Not his legacy.

broncosteven
07-31-2010, 05:33 PM
Orton had a career year last year. No reason to believe he will regress.

...

Doesn't "career year" mean his best year in his career? Are you saying he has another career year in 2010? I am confused.

eddie mac
07-31-2010, 09:15 PM
Winners play, losers sit. McD will play the guy who gives him the best chance to win every game. At the minute he thinks that's Orton. Nice to have options though if that does not pan out as planned.

As we've seen from early picks before like Ayers and Smith, if they dont perform McD wont waste too much time sitting their asses or making them earn their crust on ST.

I realise a QB and especially one as unorthodox as Tebow needs more time to develop but McD has all the cards here, Orton is cheap for one more season and Quinn for 2, so he has at least 2 years to develop Tebow if he can get the team to a decent level where Pat doesn't feel the need to coach change again.

As the Patriots have found down the years you can never have enough QB's, how many picks have those ones traded netted them???

Traveler
07-31-2010, 09:32 PM
Paraphrasing McDaniels, " the best players will play, no matter what their position."

HAT
07-31-2010, 09:53 PM
Doesn't "career year" mean his best year in his career? Are you saying he has another career year in 2010? I am confused.

Yes. And yes.

Confused why?

Taco John
07-31-2010, 10:09 PM
So I've been pondering this while at work and It'd be interesting to hear what people think . Let's say for hypothetical purposes Orton sucks it up and Quinn gets his shot.

What will McD do if he comes in and tears it up for the next two years? What do we do with Tebow? Does McD continue to play Quinn or does his ego keep giving Tebow a shot? I can't imagine him wanting to play a situational/backup role his whole career.

Oh no you didn't...

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6162/rapinereybodyuphere.gif


They rapin' e'reybody up here.

gunns
07-31-2010, 10:31 PM
Orton had a career year last year. No reason to believe he will regress.

And don't believe the MSM hype that McD's future is tied to Tebows. TT was a luxury pick that McD did some maneuvering for in order to trade back into RD1.

I'm of the opinion that TT will succeed here eventually. But even if he doesn't, it will simply be a page in McD's tenure.....Not his legacy.

Orton had a career year for Orton. Hopefully we are looking for much, much more.

Total failure with TT would not be McD's legacy as long as he does something meaningful with his legacy. I'm hoping that TT turns into a big slap in the face to the MSM, not for McD's sake, but for the Broncos.

strafen
07-31-2010, 10:35 PM
The way I look at at is like this.
From best to worst:
1-Tebow
2-Quinn
3-Orton

This is ranked by both athletic abilities and potential.

Obviously Orton is our #1 QB but not for long.
McDaniels didn't draft two QB's and signed and traded for another thinking Orton is his long term solution.
He's got his eyes on Quinn since last year. He finally got him not knowing he would have had a shot at Tebow at the time of the trade.

The dilemma would be if Quinn plays out to his potential as a former first round draft pick.
He will have a familiar system to run and a much better team all around than the one he played in Cleveland for 3 years.
Some people are banking he's going to fail because of his NFL performance at Cleveland.
I wouldn't be so quick yet in doing so. He could well be our starter despite the wishes of most here to not be the case.
I think people here forget something very importand about Quinn that you should factor in before you deem the guy a failure, and that is that in 3 years in Cleveland, Brady Quinn only played in 14 games, 10 of which came last year, so in essence, the guy does not have a full NFL season under his belt yet

Tebow in my opinion has the potential to be a game breaker. We will find out during his development whether he is or he is not.
If he is the player I think he can be, it won't matter what Quinn does.
JMHO

tnedator
07-31-2010, 10:40 PM
So I've been pondering this while at work and It'd be interesting to hear what people think . Let's say for hypothetical purposes Orton sucks it up and Quinn gets his shot.

What will McD do if he comes in and tears it up for the next two years? What do we do with Tebow? Does McD continue to play Quinn or does his ego keep giving Tebow a shot? I can't imagine him wanting to play a situational/backup role his whole career.

What if Orton raises his game to a WHOLE new level to the point where McDaniels feels he has to extend him and start him in '11?

I think Tebow has to outplay the competition, or at least play as well, in order to get on the field. Obviously, if we are 2-7 after 9 games, then he may go to the rookie just to get him experience.

strafen
07-31-2010, 10:50 PM
What if Orton raises his game to a WHOLE new level to the point where McDaniels feels he has to extend him and start him in '11?

I think Tebow has to outplay the competition, or at least play as well, in order to get on the field. Obviously, if we are 2-7 after 9 games, then he may go to the rookie just to get him experience.Not a shot of that happening in this lifetime.
What you saw, what I saw and what everybody saw in Orton's abilities to play QB is it.
There's nothing available past that point.
Sure, he'll know the system better than anyone else by now, but he still sucks at playing QB.
He can't improvise, he can't make things happen on his own when things around him collapses and it is just not athletic enough to play this game.
You need a QB who has at least half of those qualities, and Orton does not bring that in his game.

HAT
07-31-2010, 10:52 PM
Orton had a career year for Orton.



Thanks...I wasn't quite sure what the definition of 'career year' was. Awesome.
:blueflame

HAT
07-31-2010, 10:56 PM
What if Orton raises his game to a WHOLE new level to the point where McDaniels feels he has to extend him and start him in '11?

.

The first part will happen for sure...But not the second.

KO is pretty much Pro Bowl bound but McAwesome will trade him at his peak rather than subject himself to dealing with a QB controversy in 2011.

tnedator
07-31-2010, 10:58 PM
Not a shot of that happening in this lifetime.
What you saw, what I saw and what everybody saw in Orton's abilities to play QB is it.
There's nothing available past that point.
Sure, he'll know the system better than anyone else by now, but he still sucks at playing QB.
He can't improvise, he can't make things happen on his own when things around him collapses and it is just not athletic enough to play this game.
You need a QB who has at least half of those qualities, and Orton does not bring that in his game.

FWIW, I agree 100% with you. I think the chances of Orton raising his game to a whole new level and forcing a contract extension is close to zero.

strafen
07-31-2010, 11:05 PM
FWIW, I agree 100% with you. I think the chances of Orton raising his game to a whole new level and forcing a contract extension is close to zero.He will be more comfortable with the offense. He may for a change look for our second and third option on the field, which he will have a chance to do, but I just feel the speed of the game is too greater for Orton to match with his athletic abilities of lack thereof...

Hogan11
07-31-2010, 11:33 PM
The way I look at at is like this.
From best to worst:
1-Tebow
2-Quinn
3-Orton

This is ranked by both athletic abilities and potential.

Obviously Orton is our #1 QB but not for long.
McDaniels didn't draft two QB's and signed and traded for another thinking Orton is his long term solution.
He's got his eyes on Quinn since last year. He finally got him not knowing he would have had a shot at Tebow at the time of the trade.

The dilemma would be if Quinn plays out to his potential as a former first round draft pick.
He will have a familiar system to run and a much better team all around than the one he played in Cleveland for 3 years.
Some people are banking he's going to fail because of his NFL performance at Cleveland.
I wouldn't be so quick yet in doing so. He could well be our starter despite the wishes of most here to not be the case.
I think people here forget something very importand about Quinn that you should factor in before you deem the guy a failure, and that is that in 3 years in Cleveland, Brady Quinn only played in 14 games, 10 of which came last year, so in essence, the guy does not have a full NFL season under his belt yet

Tebow in my opinion has the potential to be a game breaker. We will find out during his development whether he is or he is not.
If he is the player I think he can be, it won't matter what Quinn does.
JMHO

I'm in agreement with this.

I'm just not convinced that Quinn is ever going to get a real chance to develop in Denver. I haven't seen such fan discounting of a player since Ron Dayne was here and like Dayne, I'm afraid Quinn will never get the chance to see what he can do as a starter in Denver.

strafen
08-01-2010, 12:14 AM
I'm in agreement with this.

I'm just not convinced that Quinn is ever going to get a real chance to develop in Denver. I haven't seen such fan discounting of a player since Ron Dayne was here and like Dayne, I'm afraid Quinn will never get the chance to see what he can do as a starter in Denver.

Exactly, and that's why I've brought up the point that Quinn has only played 14 games in his 3-year career; played one game in his rookie year, 3 games in his second year, and 10 games last year under different head coach. Hardly plenty time for a QB to develop, not to mention two different head-coaches.
His playing time in Cleveland was not enough for him to establish himself as a QB, let alone playing his potential. It takes at least two full seasons for a QB to show what he can do in a given system.

I think if he gets the chance to play we could see him emerging as a suitable starter for our offense. I personally think he's our best QB to start this season with, -barring a Tebow sudden emergence during training camp out of the blue...

Hercules Rockefeller
08-01-2010, 12:16 AM
Haha, no, I'm afarid he'll get rid of Orton or Quinn regardless of how well they're doing because he has put a lot of his future into Tebow.

Really? I didn't know that Josh's future is tied to the ability of Tebow to perform like so many people desperately want to believe.

If Tebow busts and Denver still wins with Quinn or Orton under center, then Josh's future is secure because the only thing that matters is the W/L column.

McDman
08-01-2010, 08:38 AM
Not a shot of that happening in this lifetime.
What you saw, what I saw and what everybody saw in Orton's abilities to play QB is it.
There's nothing available past that point.
Sure, he'll know the system better than anyone else by now, but he still sucks at playing QB.
He can't improvise, he can't make things happen on his own when things around him collapses and it is just not athletic enough to play this game.
You need a QB who has at least half of those qualities, and Orton does not bring that in his game.

I don't think Orton sucks, I actually think he'll have a pretty good year, but there's no way he'll ever get us to the Super Bowl. I don't think he is good enough.

McDman
08-01-2010, 08:38 AM
Really? I didn't know that Josh's future is tied to the ability of Tebow to perform like so many people desperately want to believe.

If Tebow busts and Denver still wins with Quinn or Orton under center, then Josh's future is secure because the only thing that matters is the W/L column.

Well if neither Quinn nor Orton work out then his future is tied to Tebow.

yerner
08-01-2010, 08:48 AM
I hear Myrtle Beach is nice.

WolfpackGuy
08-01-2010, 09:14 AM
What if Orton raises his game to a WHOLE new level to the point where McDaniels feels he has to extend him and start him in '11?

This is the real dilemma.

He only signed a one year deal from his tender, so Orton has a lot of incentive to tear it up this year.

gunns
08-01-2010, 01:55 PM
Thanks...I wasn't quite sure what the definition of 'career year' was. Awesome.
:blueflame

I think we were wondering if you did and that's where the confusion came in. The way you stated it sounded like it was something awesome.

bpc
08-01-2010, 02:17 PM
Best player will play. Its a rare but great problem to have. Either way if they both are showing potential then you can for sure get a lot back in trade.

But the possibility of that is not very high just based on history.

This.

I'll give McDaniels a huge amount of credit for the fact that he traded Cutler (i was against it) but in a year has managed to make our QB position one of the deepest in the NFL.

I love the addition of Tebow and Quinn. I think they both have tremendous young talent. If McD is the QB guru he thinks he is, he'll get these guys developed and producing for us. If we have two QB's who can play and succeed... that's awesome. It's a great bargaining chip in a trade later on should we choose to go that route.

HAT
08-01-2010, 02:30 PM
I think we were wondering if you did and that's where the confusion came in. The way you stated it sounded like it was something awesome.

The way I stated it? WTF are you talking about?

"Orton had a career year last year...No reason to believe he will regress"

That statement speaks for itself. Sorry you're reading so much into it. The first part is fact, not opinion.

If you disagree with the opinion stated in the second part, fine. But how about offering up some reasoning?

Why do you feel Orton will regress in 2010? I'm all ears.

Aftermath
08-01-2010, 03:28 PM
Quinn could end up being like steve young(tampa bay to 49ers), or he could end up like tim couch. Should be fun seeing how it pans out.

FireFly
08-01-2010, 05:46 PM
I'm a Quinn believer. But I'm begining to think that he won't ever start for the Broncos barring injuries to Orton AND Tebow.

Jay3
08-01-2010, 05:56 PM
I couldn't tell what to make of it at first -- I thought maybe McD brought Quinn in to try and groom as a starter, and then was able to get Tebow, making it two guys with the same thing on McD's mind.

At this point, I think Quinn is insurance against the Tebow timeline, and would also be the #2 long term if Tebow pans out. His physicality (body, if not playing style) makes him a candidate to run some of the same plays as Tebow if he has to back him up.

I think McD (with Ben at his side) sees himself as a QB guru, who can make a Matt Cassell out of Quinn. I think he saw some measurables missing from Orton, and doesn't think the ceiling is high enough to invest a big guru project in Orton. He wants two physical freaks to work on.

peacepipe
08-02-2010, 06:25 AM
if the best guy is starting, I couldn't care lessThat isn't saying much,considering the choices.

TotallyScrewed
08-02-2010, 06:44 AM
You're afraid of a hypothetical that you made up in your head That is extremely unlikely? Rest assured: Quinn is huge mangina who has career backup all over him. Every team in the league would love to have that "problem".

The problem is the Broncos don't have that problem.

1) Orton's play, thus far, says he's a journeyman and not an elite player.
2) Quinn has done nothing so far.
3) The rook's a rook.
4) The head coach is too new to tell and isn't in the hypothetical sit. anyway.

Can't we just worry about whether it will rain this afternoon or whether we have to mow??

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-02-2010, 07:45 AM
Not a shot of that happening in this lifetime.
What you saw, what I saw and what everybody saw in Orton's abilities to play QB is it.
There's nothing available past that point.
Sure, he'll know the system better than anyone else by now, but he still sucks at playing QB.
He can't improvise, he can't make things happen on his own when things around him collapses and it is just not athletic enough to play this game.
You need a QB who has at least half of those qualities, and Orton does not bring that in his game.

Sorry, but that's a load of ****. The predictions prior to last year did not have him being as successful as he was. Now you're doing it all over again.

Orton is our best chance to win games this year. Period. If we're deferring winning for rookie experience, fine, but we need to be ready to accept that.

A rookie who has no experience in a pro style offense is going to look imminently worse than a vet with a year of experience in the system...

HAT
08-02-2010, 10:36 AM
I couldn't tell what to make of it at first -- I thought maybe McD brought Quinn in to try and groom as a starter, and then was able to get Tebow, making it two guys with the same thing on McD's mind.

At this point, I think Quinn is insurance against the Tebow timeline, and would also be the #2 long term if Tebow pans out. His physicality (body, if not playing style) makes him a candidate to run some of the same plays as Tebow if he has to back him up.

I think McD (with Ben at his side) sees himself as a QB guru, who can make a Matt Cassell out of Quinn. I think he saw some measurables missing from Orton, and doesn't think the ceiling is high enough to invest a big guru project in Orton. He wants two physical freaks to work on.

Good take. (As have been your first 20, welcome to The 'Mane)

I think the goal is to make a 'Matt Cassell' out of Orton, not Quinn. His ceiling with this team is a low top 10 & I think he gets there this year. Orton is playing for his next contract & it's logical IMO that he will take another step forward in year 2 under McD. Somebody will overpay for his services. Jay Cutler=the gift that keeps on giving.

McD can then go into 2011 with a better idea of what direction to take after Tebow & Quinn have a full year 'audition' on the practice field & in the film room. I believe Tebow will be ready but if he's not they still have a former 1st rounder with game experience to throw out there. And he can spin it with "We knew Tebow was a project all along, he's making great strides but he's not quite there and we don't want to undermine all the work he's put in by rushing him out there, blah, blah, blah"

Quinn & Tebow aren't here because 'Orton sucks'. They are here because Simms sucked & Brandstater didn't show enough in his year long audition.

McD really has set this up beautifully. He's got a ton of outs.

1) A 'stop-gap' who can not only win now, but also has potential trade value and will be highly motivated for his next contract. He's a pro's pro & top notch team guy to boot. (McD's first 2 FA classes wouldn't be near what they were without Orton in the fold)

2) A former 1st rounder with all the physical tools. Low risk/High reward (He was acquired for a 'ham sandwich', after all). Solid back-up if nothing else.

3) A luxury pick with all the mental tools. Medium-high risk/Ultimate reward developmental type who is versatile enough to contribute right away & a marketing boon for the franchise

Good times. :thumbs:

Hogan11
08-02-2010, 11:09 AM
I'm a Quinn believer. But I'm begining to think that he won't ever start for the Broncos barring injuries to Orton AND Tebow.

It wouldn't surprise me....the public pressure is already reaching epic levels for Tebow to start.

Beantown Bronco
08-02-2010, 11:17 AM
I'm having trouble with the original post. In the hypothetical scenario presented on page one, our starting QB "tears it up." In my world, there can never be a dilemma when your starting QB tears it up. I don't care who is on the bench behind them.