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crazyhorse
07-21-2010, 12:49 PM
Maybe someday you will figure out it's not all about you. I disagreed with your take. I felt you missed the whole point of the thread. Went right over your little Chiefy head. The thread is about speculation. If it's data you want join a statistics froum.

BTW if you call that a b**** slap you better go back to school.

But your car does look nice did you steal the picture from a Broncos fan. ;D

Lets get some perspective here.

You asked "based on what you know now" which QB would you want?

I said, since there is no "data" or history on Tebow, this is more like a vote for or against Cutler thread.

I thought that was reasonable. But some may disagree with it. Thats fine with me.

Then there was your response. Based on my gut feeling (not on what we know now) I choose Tebow. My gut feelings have been brilliant in the past. You then go on in other posts whining about there not being any NFL history or statistics. Using my post to single out your point and whine to the public how ridiculous it must be to think there is no NFL information to make a decision on choosing a QB. Even though........there isnt any.

So I chime in to tell you to sack up. Its not worth crying over.

You come back telling me that the thread is over my head. Saying the thread was based on "what we know now". My post was based on what we know now. In Tebows case, we know nothing. You say I dont understand the tread and then you come off with "gut feelings" as your reason for picking Tebow. What the hell does gut feeling have to do with "what we know now"? It seems you are the one who doesnt know the meaning of your own thread. You are just making it up as you go along.

Further, I feel its worth pointing out to you that a gut feeling is not relative to brilliance. Brilliance is calculated, gut feeling is the opposite.

You sir, come off in this thread as a dumbass. I like you well enough. But you shouldn't smoke and post. It seems rather obvious by your posing that you are under the influence. But because I dont have any hard data to base that opinion on, I'll have to say that it's just a gut feeling that you are high.

How brilliant was that?:wiggle:

BTW, I built the car with my own 2 hands.Thanks for asking.

Captain 'Dre
07-21-2010, 02:33 PM
Asking that question is a pretty douche thing to do.

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Captain 'Dre
07-21-2010, 02:34 PM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list.


Just saying....

And soon to be on mine, btw... Ha!

Tombstone RJ
07-21-2010, 02:36 PM
I think he'll be all that this year and only get better the longer he has under Martz.

He was pretty darn good in Denver for a 3yr player.

Here's an article you should read:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-07-21/five-quarterbacks-who-should-be-benched

Makes me want me old girlfriend back!

Florio is a tard and this article illustrates his inability to grasp football 101. Seriously, don't rely on Florio for your opinion you'll end up hating yourself later...

baja
07-21-2010, 02:47 PM
We don't know **** about Tebow, so how the F are you supposed to answer this question? Retarded Fing question.

Where do you get that "we" from? It is you that may not know anything about Tebow but many of the rest of us know enough to have an informed opinion.

Rohirrim
07-21-2010, 02:48 PM
Neither

baja
07-21-2010, 03:10 PM
Lets get some perspective here.

You asked "based on what you know now" which QB would you want?

I said, since there is no "data" or history on Tebow, this is more like a vote for or against Cutler thread.

I thought that was reasonable. But some may disagree with it. Thats fine with me.

Then there was your response. Based on my gut feeling (not on what we know now) I choose Tebow. My gut feelings have been brilliant in the past. You then go on in other posts whining about there not being any NFL history or statistics. Using my post to single out your point and whine to the public how ridiculous it must be to think there is no NFL information to make a decision on choosing a QB. Even though........there isnt any.

So I chime in to tell you to sack up. Its not worth crying over.

You come back telling me that the thread is over my head. Saying the thread was based on "what we know now". My post was based on what we know now. In Tebows case, we know nothing. You say I dont understand the tread and then you come off with "gut feelings" as your reason for picking Tebow. What the hell does gut feeling have to do with "what we know now"? It seems you are the one who doesnt know the meaning of your own thread. You are just making it up as you go along.

Further, I feel its worth pointing out to you that a gut feeling is not relative to brilliance. Brilliance is calculated, gut feeling is the opposite.

You sir, come off in this thread as a dumbass. I like you well enough. But you shouldn't smoke and post. It seems rather obvious by your posing that you are under the influence. But because I dont have any hard data to base that opinion on, I'll have to say that it's just a gut feeling that you are high.

How brilliant was that?:wiggle:

BTW, I built the car with my own 2 hands.Thanks for asking.

I think you are taking this a bit too serious.

We do know quite a bit about Tebow as far as the mental and emotional part of the game is concerned. Sure he has not played a down in the NFL but if ever there were a player that has all the intangables it Tim Tebow IMO. My 'gut feeling' is based on this pre NFL data. I have always felt the "heart' and commentment to the team is the biggest part of the make up of a good football player. We have hundreds of examples of this in the NFL. Look at all the individuals that look all world and never pan out in the NFL, usually in is because of what is between their ears that causes them to fail. On the other hand look at all the Mecklanbergs of the NFL that nobody everr though they were players and yet they play lights out for their entire career. <b>With what I know today </b>I believe Tebow will become the poster boy for this type of player. I think you under value "gut feelings" or intutition, most men do.

As for you car, it's beautiful man and I am glad you got to finish it. Great job! Now relax and enjoy.

errand
07-21-2010, 03:41 PM
If you could wipe the slate clean and start over as rookies in training camp.......... I would take Cutler and Marshall over Tebow and Thomas.

Too bad we can't wipe the slate clean...we already know what Marshall and cutler bring to the table. Immense talent and poor character.

errand
07-21-2010, 03:44 PM
You'll never see Tebow look like this.

<IMG SRC="http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/501698/jay-cutler_medium.jpg"


...or blaming team mates for his mistakes.

errand
07-21-2010, 03:51 PM
While I do think Cutler is a good qb who is only going to get a lot lot better. I still think tebow is going to change the way the Qb position is played...



Cutler will get better as he gains more experience, but character, like speed cannot be coached. Tebow is the kind of guy I'd root for because too many people say he can't even though he's always proven he can.

uplink
07-21-2010, 04:26 PM
If he stays healthy, Cutler will make the pro bowl this year, I like the way he didn't have a leaf-like meltdown last year despite all the adversity.

errand
07-21-2010, 04:41 PM
+1 Leadership is formed through attitude. Jay has a defeatist attitude and Tim has a never-say-die attitude. As a player in the locker room, I'd rather get behind a guy like Tebow. I think Tim's mechanics will be just fine and he will learn the offense inside and out, which will make him a better player. :sunshine:

Exactly...Tebow is a born leader while Cutler is a malcontent. As far as mechanics go....Rich Gannon threw with a side arm kind of motion and he seemed to put up big numbers in the right offense, as does Phillip Rivers whose mechanics also came under scrutiny in pre-draft workouts...but he wins games (just not playoff games).

As long as he's not throwing tons of INT's and he wins games I'm not gonna be worried about Tebow

errand
07-21-2010, 04:47 PM
For the record, I'm not voting on likability. I never thought Cutler was terribly likable when he was here, and I think Tebow is possibly the most likable player since Peyton Manning.

I'm just voting based on what we know about the players right now, and what we know right now is that Jay Cutler can run a pro-style offense and make every throw on the field. On the opposite side, we don't know anything at all about what Tebow can do at this level.

It's a no-brainer.

Now if the question was which I'd rather have selling me DirecTV, that's easily Tebow.

...and yet amazingly just a few seasons ago you were ready to bench a guy who had won almost 75% of his starts and took us to playoffs for three consecutive seasons for an unknown rookie out of Vanderbilt. And you were wrong then....and you're gonna be proven wrong this time too.

errand
07-21-2010, 04:54 PM
not at all. The way plummer played the following season,

you mean the way jay played constantly looking over his shoulder knowing that any bad pass would bring out the taco johns of the world calling for the so-called "future"?


shanahan wouldn't have had a contingency plan. I guess you could say that if we didn't draft cutler, then plummer might not have turned into the pile of mess that he did - but even in that best case scenario, it only serves to highlight how badly we needed to replace the guy.

so did replacing jake increase our win total and garner us more playoff trips or did the opposite happen?

don't forget that our defense the following season started on a record pace.

yeah but the nfl season is a marathon not a wind sprint...bottom line is we were 7-4 when they replaced jake

plummer didn't have the intestines to be a big game quarterback and he knew it. That's why he bowed out.

you're an idiot...jake just decided it was time to leave and on his terms. He was a traded to the yucs, and figured why go to the freaking cardinals again?



in bold

HAT
07-21-2010, 05:00 PM
If he stays healthy, Cutler will make the pro bowl this year, I like the way he didn't have a leaf-like meltdown last year despite all the adversity.

That's a toughie. With the conditions in Chicago, it's tough to see him racking up enough yards unless Martz goes nuts with the play-calling. And if that's the case it would seem unlikely that his TD/INT ratio improves enough to warrant consideration. He can probably get to 4,000 yards if he throws it 580+. Do you think he can get the INT's below 16 in that scenario?

I'd make him about 7-2 to get in one way or another given that the SB starter can't play and it would only take an injury to one of the other 4-5 likely candidates for him to slide in with an above average year. (Assuming Favre comes back)

Tier 1:
Brees
Rodgers
Romo
Favre

Tier 2:
Cunningham
Eli
Cutler
McNabb

enjolras
07-22-2010, 10:48 AM
I love how the standard for Cutler is now 'Didn't have a leaf-like meltdown'...sure he didn't threaten a female reporter, so he's golden.

His interceptions should tell you something different. His performance in the red-zone (throughout his career) should speak absolute volumes. Some people have "it".. and I just don't think he does. He's a nice QB with all of the ability in the world. His teams have historically failed to win, and his knack for throwing interceptions and bad passes at the worst of times is a large part of the reason for that.

baja
07-22-2010, 11:04 AM
I love how the standard for Cutler is now 'Didn't have a leaf-like meltdown'...sure he didn't threaten a female reporter, so he's golden.

His interceptions should tell you something different.<b> His performance in the red-zone (throughout his career) should speak absolute volumes. Some people have "it".. and I just don't think he does.</b> He's a nice QB with all of the ability in the world.<b> His teams have historically failed to win, and his knack for throwing interceptions and bad passes at the worst of times is a large part of the reason for that.

So with all that you said how is he a "nice" QB?

Br0nc0Buster
07-22-2010, 11:22 AM
Cutler is gonna throw for a lot of yards Im sure
but I dont know how effective that offense is going to be
should be better than last year though, but unless their defense starts getting turnovers again the sacks and turnovers that will result from Martz's offense may make it too difficult to overcome

I also think its unlikely Cutler makes the probowl this year

I think it will be interesting to watch though

Drek
07-22-2010, 11:23 AM
Easy, I'm very confident in Cutler's inability to play well in the clutch and therefore never win anything meaningful. Tim Tebow is an unknown in that regard at the NFL level. Its all about winning meaningful games (like Super Bowls).

So a guy who is a known negative when it comes to winning big games versus a complete unknown? I'll take the unknown every time.

Rabb
07-22-2010, 11:24 AM
Cutler isn't even the best QB in his division, I am not sure why he should make the pro bowl. I would argue that he is third behind both Favre and Rodgers easily.

baja
07-22-2010, 11:35 AM
Easy, I'm very confident in Cutler's inability to play well in the clutch and therefore never win anything meaningful. Tim Tebow is an unknown in that regard at the NFL level. Its all about winning meaningful games (like Super Bowls).

So a guy who is a known negative when it comes to winning big games versus a complete unknown? I'll take the unknown every time.

This. Also consider the picks we got for cutler, the locker with Tebow and without Cutler, the fact that Tebow even if a washout at QB will make a player at some position so not a complete loss and the message you sand to all free agents as to the kind of player that Denver seeks.

Remember the OP asks "With what we know today" That is considerablely more than what Tebow can do in the NFL.

lex
07-25-2010, 11:28 AM
The fact that I dislike McDaniels more than Cutler doesnt mean I love Cutler. Cutler is/was a great talent but there were things about his personality that I didnt/dont like. For one, I think the criticisms of him drinking the night before games were probably true and fair. I also think he's a prima donna with amazing talent and falling in love with that talent was part of our downfall. Still though, talent wins in the NFL.

But I actually like Tebow. Tebow has made the Broncos more likeable for me. And since I want to see Tebow do well, I voted for Tebow. Of course, as some of you know, Im a huge Florida Gator fan so there's an admitted bias there. But with that experience, I can also tell you its fun when he's playing for your team and he makes a big play and starts waving his arms. He needs to improve but Id really like to see him do well.

At first I wasnt overly enamored with the Broncos drafting him but when it happened, I became more and more OK with it. I was probably going to pull for him wherever he landed and now, he has made the Broncos more likeable for me, which I had neglected to consider. I thought nothing of the emotional sway he has with me.

One day, Id like to see the Broncos come to Chicago on a day when its blisteringly cold and see the Broncos win a game because of Tebows physical running.

I think, when evaluating QBs, people often neglect to consider how the threat of scrambling helps their passing windows (which makes guys like Marino's, Warner's, and Namath's skills as passers that much more amazing). Theyll look at QBs in a disaggregated way often and look for X, Y, and Z. I think what sometimes gets lost is how its not like the game is played in a vacuum where all the QBs are flat footed. Those who can run help them with X, Y, and Z.

Im also glad to see Elway enter the picture again and I wonder if Tebow was more of a draw for him than Cutler.

broncogary
07-25-2010, 11:48 AM
That's a toughie. With the conditions in Chicago, it's tough to see him racking up enough yards unless Martz goes nuts with the play-calling. And if that's the case it would seem unlikely that his TD/INT ratio improves enough to warrant consideration. He can probably get to 4,000 yards if he throws it 580+. Do you think he can get the INT's below 16 in that scenario?

I'd make him about 7-2 to get in one way or another given that the SB starter can't play and it would only take an injury to one of the other 4-5 likely candidates for him to slide in with an above average year. (Assuming Favre comes back)

Tier 1:
Brees
Rodgers
Romo
Favre

Tier 2:
Cunningham
Eli
Cutler
McNabb

Who's Cunningham?

TheReverend
07-25-2010, 12:19 PM
I love how the standard for Cutler is now 'Didn't have a leaf-like meltdown'...sure he didn't threaten a female reporter, so he's golden.

His interceptions should tell you something different. His performance in the red-zone (throughout his career) should speak absolute volumes.

Cutler's career redzone stats:

Cutler Attempts Completion Yards TD INT
2009 38 76 239 19 6
2008 39 84 273 17 4
2007 29 51 209 16 0
2006 14 19 105 5 0
Total 120 230 826 57 10

They do speak volumes, but not at all in a negative light. You're letting your emotion cloud reality... perhaps you should name change to Marius :)

colonelbeef
07-25-2010, 12:30 PM
...or blaming team mates for his mistakes.

Peyton Manning blames teammates all the time, are you going to criticize him too? John Elway was outspoken about the Reeves regime, yet I'm sure you idolize him. Seems to work just fine for some guys, eh?

Who gives a rats ass? It's all about the ability, the brains, and the wins. Leading the league in prayer groups or rosary beads doesn't get you jack **** other than a bunch of sanctimonious message board posters.

This "Cutler is a bad guy" innuendo is hilarious, knitting circle garbage. He's an egotistical, young, spoiled, star Qb. Show me a successful young star player who isn't?

Captain 'Dre
07-25-2010, 02:46 PM
I love how the standard for Cutler is now 'Didn't have a leaf-like meltdown'...sure he didn't threaten a female reporter, so he's golden.

His interceptions should tell you something different. His performance in the red-zone (throughout his career) should speak absolute volumes. Some people have "it".. and I just don't think he does. He's a nice QB with all of the ability in the world. His teams have historically failed to win, and his knack for throwing interceptions and bad passes at the worst of times is a large part of the reason for that.


http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs060.ash2/36387_133316826693967_100000469506395_297878_66769 25_n.jpg

errand
07-25-2010, 02:51 PM
Cutler's career redzone stats:

Cutler Attempts Completion Yards TD INT
2009 38 76 239 19 6
2008 39 84 273 17 4
2007 29 51 209 16 0
2006 14 19 105 5 0
Total 120 230 826 57 10

They do speak volumes, but not at all in a negative light. You're letting your emotion cloud reality... perhaps you should name change to Marius :)

Does this include his fumbles too? Turning the ball over in the red zone is a huge sin....Cutler did it often, Orton did it rarely, and Tebow will just flatten whoever gets in his way. Rumor has it that Superman and Chuck Norris wear Tim Tebow jammies to bed

Captain 'Dre
07-25-2010, 02:51 PM
This "Cutler is a bad guy" innuendo is hilarious, knitting circle garbage. He's an egotistical, young, spoiled, star Qb. Show me a successful young star player who isn't?

Show me ANY young 'star' QB who is MORE egotistical and spoiled than Jay is. Can you name even ONE?!?

It's pretty evident that-- as two examples -- Matt Shaub and Matt Ryan do NOT have personalities in the Jay Cutler mold.

Jay's practically in a class by himself... and not in a good way.

NFLBRONCO
07-25-2010, 03:09 PM
Show me ANY young 'star' QB who is MORE egotistical and spoiled than Jay is. Can you name even ONE?!?

It's pretty evident that-- as two examples -- Matt Shaub and Matt Ryan do NOT have personalities in the Jay Cutler mold.

Jay's practically in a class by himself... and not in a good way.

As much as I love Cutlers skillset your 100% correct Jay is clearly #1 spoiled brat who deserves the title.

errand
07-25-2010, 03:17 PM
peyton manning blames teammates all the time, are you going to criticize him too?

when you're throwing 26 int's annually...i think you should stop throwing stones as well.


john elway was outspoken about the reeves regime, yet i'm sure you idolize him. Seems to work just fine for some guys, eh?

anyone who knows me knows better than that...i've been just as critical of elway's foibles as i have been of any other qb's. I recall one horrendous middle screens ever thrown by elway that carlton bailey returned for a td that cost us the '91 afc title bout vs. Bills

who gives a rats ass? It's all about the ability, the brains, and the wins.


ok, i'll give you that cutler has the physical abilities....but you cannot seriously convince me that he has the brains as his numerous drive and scoring opportunity killing int's tell a different story.....and i know you're not stupid to argue wins


leading the league in prayer groups or rosary beads doesn't get you jack **** other than a bunch of sanctimonious message board posters.

and leading the league in int's thrown gets you what?

Ah, and now we get to the real reason you're not a tebow fan.....i guess it's ok to be arguably college football's greatest player ever as long as he's not a high character guy who also believes in god. Penn state or the state pen is your motto huh?

this "cutler is a bad guy" innuendo is hilarious, knitting circle garbage. He's an egotistical, young, spoiled, star qb. Show me a successful young star player who isn't?


first off cutler isn't a successful young star ...he's got talent and i'm sure he'll play better with a few more years of experience, but surely you jest

drew brees? Aaron rodgers? Matt ryan? Joe flacco? Hell, even orton puts cutler to shame in the character issue. Please post any articles that dispute my saying they're good young qb's that have little or no egos or that proves they act spoiled?






in bold

errand
07-25-2010, 03:23 PM
Overheard at a Bears game...


"When i was young i use to wish i could play QB in the NFL and do it well....now i just wish Cutler could."

TheReverend
07-25-2010, 03:40 PM
Does this include his fumbles too? Turning the ball over in the red zone is a huge sin....Cutler did it often, Orton did it rarely, and Tebow will just flatten whoever gets in his way. Rumor has it that Superman and Chuck Norris wear Tim Tebow jammies to bed

Hmmm, can't find redzone fumbles anywhere, so don't know. I can't remember any redzone fumbles outside of the SD game (which didn't count thanks to Ed) and the 2007 game where Kuper smacked the ball out of his hand pulling.

Sidenote from looking for redzone fumble stats: In 53 games, Cutler has lost 9 fumbles. In 49 games, Orton has lost 12 fumbles.

Ratboy
07-25-2010, 04:53 PM
http://www.draftdaysuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/tim-tebow-crying1.jpg

Killericon
07-25-2010, 06:02 PM
Since I don't know anything about Tebow the NFL player yet, I picked Cutler, who has proven to be at least a decent starter.

Durango
07-25-2010, 07:16 PM
" I recall one horrendous middle screens ever thrown by elway that carlton bailey returned for a td that cost us the '91 afc title bout vs. Bills"

Well, then you don't recall very well. Denver was well on the path to winning that game until Steve Sewell fumbled the ball on the final drive QB'd by Gary Kubiak.

errand
07-25-2010, 09:37 PM
" I recall one horrendous middle screens ever thrown by elway that carlton bailey returned for a td that cost us the '91 afc title bout vs. Bills"

Well, then you don't recall very well. Denver was well on the path to winning that game until Steve Sewell fumbled the ball on the final drive QB'd by Gary Kubiak.


The Broncos scoring on that drive is nothing but speculation on your part. See you can only believe that we'd have scored....I know Elway threw a pick six.

But the point of my post wasn't to bash Elway..it was merely to point out that i'm one of the most consistent critics of Bronco QB's. Guys like Morton, Elway, Frerotte, Brister and Plummer rank higher on my scale due to the fact that thye won more games than they lost and helped us make the playoffs...amazingly on this site though all except Elway are belittled and blasted all the time.

errand
07-25-2010, 09:44 PM
Hmmm, can't find redzone fumbles anywhere, so don't know. I can't remember any redzone fumbles outside of the SD game (which didn't count thanks to Ed) and the 2007 game where Kuper smacked the ball out of his hand pulling.

Sidenote from looking for redzone fumble stats: In 53 games, Cutler has lost 9 fumbles. In 49 games, Orton has lost 12 fumbles.

How's this for turnover talk...in 49 games Orton has turned the ball over via fumble or INT 51 times....in 53 games Jay has turned it over 72 times.

Cutler has thrown 44 int's the past two seasons...58 the past 3 seasons. He averages over 20 INT's per season as a full-time starter. Oh, and 7 wins per season.

errand
07-25-2010, 09:47 PM
http://www.draftdaysuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/tim-tebow-crying1.jpg

Wow imagine that a firey emotional leader weeping over a big time loss.....Don't confuse his getting emotional after a loss with him being like Cutler who seemed aloof regardless of the outcome.

TomServo
07-25-2010, 11:23 PM
Tebow hasnt faced adversity or nfl speed. how the hell can he react in hard times if he's never faced hard times? "hes always been a winner" Blah blah. Elway never even won a bowl game, never even played in one.
"baby jay" looked like he learned in his last four games as a bear.

TomServo
07-25-2010, 11:25 PM
but we have "genious and savior" yay

Captain 'Dre
07-26-2010, 04:30 AM
but we have "genious and savior" yay

You'd prefer a "douchebag and baby"?

jhns
07-26-2010, 06:00 AM
The more you guys post the more you show that even you know you are full of it. If you thought Cutler was bad, you wouldn't waste all of this time crying about others opinions of him. Lelie cried his way off the team and since he is bad, there are only comments on him every so often. There is not all of this crying.

It sure looks to me like a lot of you are just trying to convince yourselves. You all make some pretty dumb arguments in the process.

Captain 'Dre
07-26-2010, 06:47 AM
The more you guys post the more you show that even you know you are full of it. If you thought Cutler was bad, you wouldn't waste all of this time crying about others opinions of him. Lelie cried his way off the team and since he is bad, there are only comments on him every so often. There is not all of this crying.

It sure looks to me like a lot of you are just trying to convince yourselves. You all make some pretty dumb arguments in the process.

I can't figure out why you don't ignore us. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/bosefus69/shrug.gif

You keep bitching and moaning about US bitching and moaning.

jhns
07-26-2010, 06:49 AM
I can't figure out why you don't ignore us. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/bosefus69/shrug.gif

You keep b****ing and moaning about US b****ing and moaning.

Probably for the same reason you just did the exact same thing.

Captain 'Dre
07-26-2010, 06:58 AM
Probably for the same reason you just did the exact same thing.

Makes sense to me. Group Hug!!! ;D

crazyhorse
07-26-2010, 07:29 AM
Wow imagine that a firey emotional leader weeping over a big time loss.....Don't confuse his getting emotional after a loss with him being like Cutler who seemed aloof regardless of the outcome.

Imagine if the whole team were all lined up on the sidelines balling thier eyes out. It would be a whole team of weeping firey emotional leaders.

Or a bunch of crybabies.

Sheesh

bowtown
07-26-2010, 07:37 AM
It makes me happy when Jay Cutler fails. That is all.

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 10:07 AM
How's this for turnover talk...in 49 games Orton has turned the ball over via fumble or INT 51 times....in 53 games Jay has turned it over 72 times.

Cutler has thrown 44 int's the past two seasons...58 the past 3 seasons. He averages over 20 INT's per season as a full-time starter. Oh, and 7 wins per season.

Don't get cranky because you're making invalid arguments.

But, sure, let's go down this road.

In those 53 games, Jay Cutler has also scored 85 times, while in his 49, Orton has scored 54.

This makes a TD:Turnover ratio of:

Cutler 85:72
Orton 54:51

Orton's barely keeping his neck above the water mark and doing worse than "Mr Turnover" while playing ball control football and not making downfield throws. It takes a special kind of bad....

oubronco
07-26-2010, 10:18 AM
Don't get cranky because you're making invalid arguments.

But, sure, let's go down this road.

In those 53 games, Jay Cutler has also scored 85 times, while in his 49, Orton has scored 54.

This makes a TD:Turnover ratio of:

Cutler 85:72
Orton 54:51

Orton's barely keeping his neck above the water mark and doing worse than "Mr Turnover" while playing ball control football and not making downfield throws. It takes a special kind of bad....

Interesting

Irish Stout
07-26-2010, 10:26 AM
Don't get cranky because you're making invalid arguments.

But, sure, let's go down this road.

In those 53 games, Jay Cutler has also scored 85 times, while in his 49, Orton has scored 54.

This makes a TD:Turnover ratio of:

Cutler 85:72
Orton 54:51

Orton's barely keeping his neck above the water mark and doing worse than "Mr Turnover" while playing ball control football and not making downfield throws. It takes a special kind of bad....

But you've forgotten to include stats on pounding jack and swording skanks.

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 10:28 AM
But you've forgotten to include stats on pounding jack and swording skanks.

We ALL hail the king neckbeard in those relevant stats.

HAT
07-26-2010, 11:05 AM
Don't get cranky because you're making invalid arguments.

But, sure, let's go down this road.

In those 53 games, Jay Cutler has also scored 85 times, while in his 49, Orton has scored 54.

This makes a TD:Turnover ratio of:

Cutler 85:72
Orton 54:51



It's nice to see you've finally come around on my notion that they are basically interchangeable. :thumbs:

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 11:08 AM
It's nice to see you've finally come around on my notion that they are basically interchangeable. :thumbs:

What part of that post, specifically the last sentence that edited out of your repost:

"Orton's barely keeping his neck above the water mark and doing worse than "Mr Turnover" while playing ball control football and not making downfield throws. It takes a special kind of bad...."

Could POSSIBLY make you think I see them as interchangable?

Look, we get it, you want to **** Orton and think he'll magically get an invite to the pro bowl. It's not the reality. He should be better for US this year. That's all that matters, but step away from the delusion.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-26-2010, 11:16 AM
What part of that post, specifically the last sentence that edited out of your repost:

"Orton's barely keeping his neck above the water mark and doing worse than "Mr Turnover" while playing ball control football and not making downfield throws. It takes a special kind of bad...."

Could POSSIBLY make you think I see them as interchangable?

Look, we get it, you want to **** Orton and think he'll magically get an invite to the pro bowl. It's not the reality. He should be better for US this year. That's all that matters, but step away from the delusion.

What makes someone so angry as to make up a bull**** comment like this? My god, he didn't say anything NEAR what you're claiming.

Are you incapable of just talking the points of discussion without going off the charts with your outlandish "nobody said this but I'm going to say you said this to make my point!" nonsense? Good grief, man.

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 11:29 AM
What makes someone so angry as to make up a bull**** comment like this? My god, he didn't say anything NEAR what you're claiming.

Are you incapable of just talking the points of discussion without going off the charts with your outlandish "nobody said this but I'm going to say you said this to make my point!" nonsense? Good grief, man.

First of all, he's the one that blatantly ignored points of the discussion to turn it into something else, but you're perhaps too dim to notice, going so far as editing someone else's post and claiming their arguing the opposite while holding a belief that Kyle Orton will go to the pro-bowl in a conference with:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Phillip Rivers
Matt Schaub
Carson Palmer

Hell there are better odds to go for:
Joe Flacco with receivers
Sanchez with receivers
Rape-burger with suspension

Valid and justified statement, imo. I eagerly await someone to bring it back to the POINTS OF THE DISCUSSION

jhns
07-26-2010, 11:30 AM
What makes someone so angry as to make up a bull**** comment like this? My god, he didn't say anything NEAR what you're claiming.

Are you incapable of just talking the points of discussion without going off the charts with your outlandish "nobody said this but I'm going to say you said this to make my point!" nonsense? Good grief, man.

Uh oh, you got Moose crying about what people are posting again. You better watch it or he will start really pouting as he calls you a big dumby stupid head. It is his go to move.

Hey Moose, did you not notice the guy he responded to doing the exact same thing? Why not cry about what that guy posted? Is crying about what people post the only thing you do here?

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 11:31 AM
What makes someone so angry as to make up a bull**** comment like this? My god, he didn't say anything NEAR what you're claiming.

Are you incapable of just talking the points of discussion without going off the charts with your outlandish "nobody said this but I'm going to say you said this to make my point!" nonsense? Good grief, man.

PS. Guarantee you NEVER made a defense post when people said the same/similiar about jhns or colonelbeef with significantly less provocation (is that a word, btw?)

Irish Stout
07-26-2010, 11:44 AM
PS. Guarantee you NEVER made a defense post when people said the same/similiar about jhns or colonelbeef with significantly less provocation (is that a word, btw?)

You used a sentence full of real words! You win a cookie! Collect from TJ.

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 11:51 AM
You used a sentence full of real words! You win a cookie! Collect from TJ.

Sadly, I was disqualified with "btw"

HAT
07-26-2010, 11:54 AM
It takes a special kind of bad....

I edited out this part because I don't believe either are 'bad' per se. They both have negatives in their game but I consider both to be among the top 16 QB's....Therefore, 'above average' as opposed to your choice of word, 'bad'..

You're the one who brought stats into the argument. People will always have opinions on whose game, skillset, or personality they prefer...But statistically speaking they are equals (even if the sample size is relatively small).

As for my Orton to the Pro Bowl campaign....There is a big difference in believing something will actually come to pass & trying to goad someone into a bet where I clearly have the best of it. The hyperbole is just part of the set up.

I'd bet someone that there will be an 3.0 or above in SoCal tomorrow given the right odds. Does that mean I actually expect the earth to shake? Hardly.

PS.....The :thumbs: smiley at the end of my OP was meant to say that I was just taking a dig for a chuckle. I realize you don't actually think they are interchangeable but you set that one up on a tee with the stats you posted.

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 12:00 PM
I edited out this part because I don't believe either are 'bad' per se. They both have negatives in their game but I consider both to be among the top 16 QB's....Therefore, 'above average' as opposed to your choice of word, 'bad'..

You're the one who brought stats into the argument. People will always have opinions on whose game, skillset, or personality they prefer...But statistically speaking they are equals (even if the sample size is relatively small).

I can't possibly envision how you think that's even remotely true...

As for my Orton to the Pro Bowl campaign....There is a big difference in believing something will actually come to pass & trying to goad someone into a bet where I clearly have the best of it. The hyperbole is just part of the set up.

I'd bet someone that there will be an 3.0 or above in SoCal tomorrow given the right odds. Does that mean I actually expect the earth to shake? Hardly.

PS.....The :thumbs: smiley at the end of my OP was meant to say that I was just taking a dig for a chuckle. I realize you don't actually think they are interchangeable but you set that one up on a tee with the stats you posted.

Agree, as you teed up a Kyle Orton love fest comment, and no, I don't think it's your fault that DenverMooseGuy is a touchy girl taking everything literal.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-26-2010, 02:23 PM
I can't possibly envision how you think that's even remotely true...



Agree, as you teed up a Kyle Orton love fest comment, and no, I don't think it's your fault that DenverMooseGuy is a touchy girl taking everything literal.

A touchy girl? Taking everything "literal"? You're right. I totally thought you were telling the truth when you said he wanted to **** Kyle Orton. Good lord, you get dumber by the post.

Guess that's just the "touchy girl" in me. /rolleyes

We can't all be as tough as Rev, who merely throws out ad hominem insults.

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 02:34 PM
A touchy girl? Taking everything "literal"? You're right. I totally thought you were telling the truth when you said he wanted to **** Kyle Orton. Good lord, you get dumber by the post.

Guess that's just the "touchy girl" in me. /rolleyes

We can't all be as tough as Rev, who merely throws out ad hominem insults.

Would you care to approach the "points of discussion", or would you like to continue being a hypocrit? Seems to me you're very inclined to pursue the latter.

errand
07-26-2010, 02:40 PM
Don't get cranky because you're making invalid arguments.

But, sure, let's go down this road.

In those 53 games, Jay Cutler has also scored 85 times, while in his 49, Orton has scored 54.

This makes a TD:Turnover ratio of:

Cutler 85:72
Orton 54:51

Orton's barely keeping his neck above the water mark and doing worse than "Mr Turnover" while playing ball control football and not making downfield throws. It takes a special kind of bad....


and while Orton is barely keeping his head above water in that dept....he's walking on water compared to Cutler where it matters most...WINNING %. How many of those 85 TD's were in a big game?

jhns
07-26-2010, 02:43 PM
and while Orton is barely keeping his head above water in that dept....he's walking on water compared to Cutler where it matters most...WINNING %. How many of those 85 TD's were in a big game?

So what you are saying is Orton is a one man team and we can expect a SB soon because he does it on his own? Sweet!

OABB
07-26-2010, 02:52 PM
cutler vs. Orton debates! hells yeah! It's about time we talked about this important and pressing issue!

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 03:26 PM
and while Orton is barely keeping his head above water in that dept....he's walking on water compared to Cutler where it matters most...WINNING %.

And while that's great, it's a team sport, and I think even his most ardent supporters will say that he's not winning games for anyone, rather just not losing them. Which is also interesting/wrong considering his TO ratio is pretty damn high when you include fumbles lost.

If we start looking at which player has been asked to do more for their respective teams and had more pressure placed on their shoulders, then the performance difference and results becomes significantly more dramatic.

How many of those 85 TD's were in a big game?

All 85? Unless you'd like to turn this into a completely subjective discussion about one regular season game meaning more than another.

I will give you that Cutler has never thrown a TD or even a pass in the post season. But if I give you that, I HAVE to point out that even when Chicago's team success took them into the post season with Orton on the roster (2005, 2006) they never even let him throw the ball once.

So neither truly has a "big game" TD, despite more opportunity for one over the other.

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 03:27 PM
cutler vs. Orton debates! hells yeah! It's about time we talked about this important and pressing issue!

Best point of the discussion (serious, no sarcasm).

errand
07-26-2010, 03:43 PM
Tebow hasnt faced adversity or nfl speed. how the hell can he react in hard times if he's never faced hard times? "hes always been a winner" Blah blah. Elway never even won a bowl game, never even played in one.
"baby jay" looked like he learned in his last four games as a bear.

Tebow played in the SEC, which is almost as good as some NFL teams....and has produced numerous NFL stars. Not to mention he's probably college football's most battle tested QB having played for two national championships. He's played in several big games...winning more than his share of them.

I agree we don't know how he'll turn out as an NFL QB...but given his history, I think it would be unwise to bet against him succeeding

Tombstone RJ
07-26-2010, 03:46 PM
Orton deserves the benefit of the doubt IMHO. He's a QB that was kinda jerked around in Chicago and then he had to learn a new system in Denver with a team in total transition. It's his job to lose and if he is to ever have a good year, then this is the time to have that good year. He's got to be realistic and tell himself that he is POSSIBLY auditioning from 30 other teams in the NFL if the Broncos decide to not keep him for 2011.

Now's the time Kyle. It's put up or shut up...

errand
07-26-2010, 03:47 PM
So what you are saying is Orton is a one man team and we can expect a SB soon because he does it on his own? Sweet!

No I'm saying that if you want to win more than 60% of your games you'd rather have Orton as your QB instead of Jay.

errand
07-26-2010, 03:49 PM
Imagine if the whole team were all lined up on the sidelines balling thier eyes out. It would be a whole team of weeping firey emotional leaders.

Or a bunch of crybabies.

Sheesh

Actually a team full of cry babies would be the KC Chiefs

Paladin
07-26-2010, 03:50 PM
This whole issue is of no importance except to the arguing protagonists who have egos on the line........

Geez. That argument sounds like a married couple: I DID NOT SAY THAT! OH YES YOU DID! OPEN YOU EARS FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT!

And that's when the pans started to fly.......

Captain 'Dre
07-26-2010, 04:01 PM
Actually a team full of cry babies would be the KC Chiefs

Less so, since Tony Gonzalez was shipped to Atlanta! Ha!

errand
07-26-2010, 04:02 PM
And while that's great, it's a team sport, and I think even his most ardent supporters will say that he's not winning games for anyone, rather just not losing them. Which is also interesting/wrong considering his TO ratio is pretty damn high when you include fumbles lost.

If we start looking at which player has been asked to do more for their respective teams and had more pressure placed on their shoulders, then the performance difference and results becomes significantly more dramatic.



All 85? Unless you'd like to turn this into a completely subjective discussion about one regular season game meaning more than another.

I will give you that Cutler has never thrown a TD or even a pass in the post season. But if I give you that, I HAVE to point out that even when Chicago's team success took them into the post season with Orton on the roster (2005, 2006) they never even let him throw the ball once.

So neither truly has a "big game" TD, despite more opportunity for one over the other.

When Jared Allen was traded to the Vikings the general manager for KC when asked how he could trade a guy who had 14 sacks....he asked 'How many of those 14 sacks were in the 4th qtr? The answer was ZERO.

Jay throws for alot more yards and touchdowns than Kyle...but he also throws more INTS than Kyle. Bottom line is wins....
Jay for all his immense talent doesn't help his team win games with his gunslinger mentality...Kyle Orton does with his low risk mentality.

jhns
07-26-2010, 04:07 PM
When Jared Allen was traded to the Vikings the general manager for KC when asked how he could trade a guy who had 14 sacks....he asked 'How many of those 14 sacks were in the 4th qtr? The answer was ZERO.

Jay throws for alot more yards and touchdowns than Kyle...but he also throws more INTS than Kyle. Bottom line is wins....
Jay for all his immense talent doesn't help his team win games with his gunslinger mentality...Kyle Orton does with his low risk mentality.

Orton had the same record here as Cutler..... Why is one 8-8 season considered better than the other? Why is the QB that had a top 10 defense being called the difference maker when the other QB had the worst defense in franchise history? You don't even try to make sense.

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 04:09 PM
When Jared Allen was traded to the Vikings the general manager for KC when asked how he could trade a guy who had 14 sacks....he asked 'How many of those 14 sacks were in the 4th qtr? The answer was ZERO.

Jay throws for alot more yards and touchdowns than Kyle...but he also throws more INTS than Kyle. Bottom line is wins....
Jay for all his immense talent doesn't help his team win games with his gunslinger mentality...Kyle Orton does with his low risk mentality.

You're not getting it... Fumbles are also a turnover. Kyle Orton is not "less risk" than Cutler, despite people thinking it's the case, he actually has a worse TD:Turnover ratio despite him "playing safe".

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-26-2010, 04:15 PM
You're not getting it... Fumbles are also a turnover. Kyle Orton is not "less risk" than Cutler, despite people thinking it's the case, he actually has a worse TD:Turnover ratio despite him "playing safe".

Are you including Cutler's fumbles lost in that statistic?

errand
07-26-2010, 04:16 PM
Orton had the same record here as Cutler..... Why is one 8-8 season considered better than the other? Why is the QB that had a top 10 defense being called the difference maker when the other QB had the worst defense in franchise history? You don't even try to make sense.

Surely you jest....so pray tell how can you clowns claim Jay is better if Orton won just as many games as he did?

Perhaps the reason Jay's defense in denver played so badly was because they constantly had to go right back onto the field after yet another Cutler turnover?

Maybe Orton's defenses played better because they actually were on the field less due to fewer turnovers....

Like i said in other thread...if Cutler leads bears to division title, people could say "Big deal...Orton did that"

But if Kyle leads Broncos to division title...nobody can say "Big deal, Jay did that."

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 04:18 PM
Are you including Cutler's fumbles lost in that statistic?

Yup.

See original posts:

Hmmm, can't find redzone fumbles anywhere, so don't know. I can't remember any redzone fumbles outside of the SD game (which didn't count thanks to Ed) and the 2007 game where Kuper smacked the ball out of his hand pulling.

Sidenote from looking for redzone fumble stats: In 53 games, Cutler has lost 9 fumbles. In 49 games, Orton has lost 12 fumbles.


Don't get cranky because you're making invalid arguments.

But, sure, let's go down this road.

In those 53 games, Jay Cutler has also scored 85 times, while in his 49, Orton has scored 54.

This makes a TD:Turnover ratio of:

Cutler 85:72
Orton 54:51

Orton's barely keeping his neck above the water mark and doing worse than "Mr Turnover" while playing ball control football and not making downfield throws. It takes a special kind of bad....

errand
07-26-2010, 04:22 PM
You're not getting it... Fumbles are also a turnover. Kyle Orton is not "less risk" than Cutler, despite people thinking it's the case, he actually has a worse TD:Turnover ratio despite him "playing safe".

I know they're turnovers clown....

OK, let's see...Kyle averages 1.04 turnovers per game.

Jay averages 1.36 per game.

No matter how you want to try and circumvent it....the bottom line is the bottom line. Kyle turns the ball over less, and wins more games. Jay turns the ball over more and wins fewer games....just can't understand why.:rofl:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-26-2010, 04:25 PM
Yup.

See original posts:

I see.

Is it also your contention that Cutler throws the picks he throws because Chicago wideouts run the wrong routes? Or that Cutler had a bad year in Chicago because their line sucked? Does Orton not get that consideration, even though he played there for several years?

SouthStndJunkie
07-26-2010, 04:25 PM
When Jared Allen was traded to the Vikings the general manager for KC when asked how he could trade a guy who had 14 sacks....he asked 'How many of those 14 sacks were in the 4th qtr? The answer was ZERO.

That may not be the best example to use....that general manager is not a general manager these days because of moves like that one.

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 04:37 PM
I know they're turnovers clown....

OK, let's see...Kyle averages 1.04 turnovers per game.

Jay averages 1.36 per game.

No matter how you want to try and circumvent it....the bottom line is the bottom line. Kyle turns the ball over less, and wins more games. Jay turns the ball over more and wins fewer games....just can't understand why.:rofl:

You should put that in relation to scores or even scoring drives.

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 04:41 PM
I see.

Is it also your contention that Cutler throws the picks he throws because Chicago wideouts run the wrong routes?

Some, sure.

Or that Cutler had a bad year in Chicago because their line sucked?

Also some, but it's not accurate to shift blame. He deserves to take crap for that season. My primary complaint with his play is that he never sees to see the LB dropped into the passing lane he's throwing into. It's a huge flaw that needs to be addressed.

Does Orton not get that consideration, even though he played there for several years?

He does, but they also NEVER, NEVER lumped the responsiblity or the pressure on him. Much like Josh's offense he was a dink/dunk QB his entire career and very limiting of an OC

Eldorado
07-26-2010, 04:43 PM
So, neither one of these turds is worth the ****. Got it.

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 04:44 PM
That may not be the best example to use....that general manager is not a general manager these days because of moves like that one.

No, he's right, the Vikings are really suffering since they added him to their defense.

azbroncfan
07-26-2010, 04:45 PM
My primary complaint with his play is that he never sees to see the LB dropped into the passing lane he's throwing into. It's a huge flaw that needs to be addressed.




Yep he has always struggled there and never has improved during his whole career. I would dare say that most of his picks are to LB's over the secondary.

TheReverend
07-26-2010, 04:46 PM
Yep he has always struggled there and never has improved during his whole career. I would dare say that most of his picks are to LB's over the secondary.

^

Lev Vyvanse
07-26-2010, 04:46 PM
So, neither one of these turds is worth the ****. Got it.

Amen.

TonyR
07-26-2010, 05:13 PM
So, neither one of these turds is worth the ****. Got it.

Yup, that sums it up fairly well.

Cutler certainly wins the eye test. He throws the better ball, he has the stronger arm, he's more athletic, he's more mobile, and he just looks better playing the position. Cutler also throws for more yards and TDs. But he also has terrible body language, has never been a winner since high school, turns the ball over too much, and makes a lot more money than Orton. Plus consider that 1) Cutler took over a 9-7 Chicago Bears team and went 7-9 while Kyle Orton took over an 8-8 Denver Broncos team and went 8-8, and 2) Denver got an awful lot more in the Cutler trade than just Kyle Orton.

errand
07-27-2010, 02:10 PM
That may not be the best example to use....that general manager is not a general manager these days because of moves like that one.

At the time it seemed like a good move to the brain trust....like he said, Jared Allen had 14 sacks... none in crunch time.

oubronco
07-27-2010, 02:15 PM
Surely you jest....so pray tell how can you clowns claim Jay is better if Orton won just as many games as he did?

Perhaps the reason Jay's defense in denver played so badly was because they constantly had to go right back onto the field after yet another Cutler turnover?

Maybe Orton's defenses played better because they actually were on the field less due to fewer turnovers....

Like i said in other thread...if Cutler leads bears to division title, people could say "Big deal...Orton did that"

But if Kyle leads Broncos to division title...nobody can say "Big deal, Jay did that."

Oh come on now!! Did you watch the 08 season that efense was the worst defense ever................EVER!!!!

oubronco
07-27-2010, 02:17 PM
I see.

Is it also your contention that Cutler throws the picks he throws because Chicago wideouts run the wrong routes? Or that Cutler had a bad year in Chicago because their line sucked? Does Orton not get that consideration, even though he played there for several years?

pretty simple Orton couldn't win the starting job

jhns
07-27-2010, 02:20 PM
At the time it seemed like a good move to the brain trust....like he said, Jared Allen had 14 sacks... none in crunch time.

It was a dumb move for them at the time and it is still a dumb move. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make but it isn't a good one. No one cares what they said to validate the move. I remember doing fist pumps up and down the sideline the second I heard he was leaving the division.

errand
07-27-2010, 03:01 PM
pretty simple Orton couldn't win the starting job

Again you're wrong...when the QB position was open for competition in '08...Orton won the job. Prior to that Lovie force fed the Bears Rex Grossman.

oubronco
07-27-2010, 03:03 PM
again you're wrong...when the qb position was open for competition in '08...orton won the job. Prior to that lovie force fed the bears rex grossman.

ok

errand
07-27-2010, 03:03 PM
Oh come on now!! Did you watch the 08 season that efense was the worst defense ever................EVER!!!!

Well, it is pretty tough to play against two QB's.

errand
07-27-2010, 03:05 PM
ok

If I'm wrong please post proof.....'08 Lovie opened up the QB position for competition and Rex was beat out by Kyle.

errand
07-27-2010, 03:08 PM
It was a dumb move for them at the time and it is still a dumb move. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make but it isn't a good one. No one cares what they said to validate the move. I remember doing fist pumps up and down the sideline the second I heard he was leaving the division.

The point is Jared's 14 sacks helped the chiefs out about as much as Jay's rocket arm helped the Broncos....neither one of them performed for their team in crunch time...only upon being traded away did they help their team get better.

Lev Vyvanse
07-27-2010, 03:12 PM
The point is Jared's 14 sacks helped the chiefs out about as much as Jay's rocket arm helped the Broncos....neither one of them performed for their team in crunch time...only upon being traded away did they help their team get better.

The Chiefs got better?

Triplelefthook
07-27-2010, 03:30 PM
let's be honest guys there is no answer to this question. Cutler has not proven that he cannot improve so the book is NOT out on him yet, and anyone who presumes to know otherwise is assuming. And as the Champ in Slammin' Salmon says, "you know what happens when you assume. you make an @sshole, out of yourself"

conversely Tebow hasn't proven anything at all on the nfl level.

only thing i have seen is that Tebow has created an inflated ticket price, and a collection of groupie fans that we didn't have before. which i can do without, but if tebow is a winner then i will take it

errand
07-27-2010, 03:36 PM
The Chiefs got better?

The Chiefs are considered one of the NFL's teams likely heading upward...in fact several publishings have them finishing 2nd in the AFC West.

Lev Vyvanse
07-27-2010, 03:41 PM
The Chiefs are considered one of the NFL's teams likely heading upward...in fact several publishings have them finishing 2nd in the AFC West.

The trade happend before the 2008 season. People think their getting better is because they **** canned the guy that traded Allen.

Rock Chalk
07-27-2010, 04:21 PM
Amazingly this has not been done yet and it should make for good descussion...

Poll coming

PLEASE come back to the US via Arizona

baja
07-27-2010, 04:48 PM
PLEASE come back to the US via Arizona

Given that I am a dicorated military vet I guess I can return any way I choose.

You on the other hand are too afraid to leave the Southwest.

You should have viscytomy to prevent to continuation of your chicken shiit genology.

Rock Chalk
07-27-2010, 04:51 PM
Given that I am a dicorated military vet I guess I can return any way I choose.

You on the other hand are too afraid to leave the Southwest.

You should have viscytomy to prevent to continuation of your chicken shiit genology.

Dicorated?

Viscytomy?

Mexican public schools pretty much suck.

As for the slight on my family, I'll let it slide. At least they wont be doing a backstroke to become Americans.

oubronco
07-27-2010, 04:56 PM
Damn Dude

TheReverend
07-27-2010, 04:57 PM
Dicorated?

Viscytomy?

Mexican public schools pretty much suck.

As for the slight on my family, I'll let it slide. At least they wont be doing a backstroke to become Americans.

You forgot "genology".

Captain 'Dre
07-27-2010, 06:34 PM
let's be honest guys there is no answer to this question. Cutler has not proven that he cannot improve so the book is NOT out on him yet, and anyone who presumes to know otherwise is assuming

The best predictor of someone's future behavior is their past behavior.

It's waaaaay more of a stretch to say that Jay will turn it around than it is to say he'll remain the same.

You don't have to like it, but it's true.

jhns
07-28-2010, 06:04 AM
The point is Jared's 14 sacks helped the chiefs out about as much as Jay's rocket arm helped the Broncos....neither one of them performed for their team in crunch time...only upon being traded away did they help their team get better.

You are not very smart. Their defense got worse when they traded him. He did a lot more than just get sacks. I think it is pretty obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. Everything you post is laughable.

jhns
07-28-2010, 06:05 AM
The trade happend before the 2008 season. People think their getting better is because they **** canned the guy that traded Allen.

Schooled.

OABB
07-28-2010, 07:51 AM
The best predictor of someone's future behavior is their past behavior.

It's waaaaay more of a stretch to say that Jay will turn it around than it is to say he'll remain the same.

You don't have to like it, but it's true.

This. Unless cutler becomes someone else or grows up it is foolish optimism and jhiz like homerism that causes a belief in the kid. You can only go off what you see and not what you want to see. If he matures and gets over himself he will be great. But as if now he's Jeff George. That's just the facts.

jhns
07-28-2010, 08:01 AM
But as if now he's Jeff George. That's just the facts.

You need to look up the definition of fact. I think you are confusing it with another word.

Rabb
07-28-2010, 08:32 AM
let's be honest guys there is no answer to this question. Cutler has not proven that he cannot improve so the book is NOT out on him yet, and anyone who presumes to know otherwise is assuming. And as the Champ in Slammin' Salmon says, "you know what happens when you assume. you make an @sshole, out of yourself"

conversely Tebow hasn't proven anything at all on the nfl level.

only thing i have seen is that Tebow has created an inflated ticket price, and a collection of groupie fans that we didn't have before. which i can do without, but if tebow is a winner then i will take it

care to provide some proof of that?

Blart
07-28-2010, 08:33 AM
I honestly believe if Shanny had not drafted Jay and got Plummer some first round help with the pick Shanny would still be here


'05 Broncos are my 2nd favorite team. If only Shannahan had a bit more patience.

Rabb
07-28-2010, 08:33 AM
What's the over/under on how many more posts before someone gets an OM vacation in this thread?

Family, race...we are really covering it all right now, it's awesome.