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JCMElway
07-18-2010, 06:13 PM
I posted a thread about the Defensive line awhile back and it garnered some good discussion. Let's get offensive, shall we?

O-line from last year: Ryan Clady, Ben Hamilton, Casey Wiegmann, Chris Kuper, Russ Hochstien, Ryan Harris, Tyler Polumbus, Brandon Gorin, and Seth Olsen.

This year's crew: Ryan Clady, Chris Kuper, Russ Hochstien, Ryan Harris, Tyler Polumbus, Seth Olsen, JD Walton, Dustin Fry, Eric Olsen, Stanley Daniels, D'Anthony Batiste, Zane Beadles, Seth Olsen, Kirk Barton, Chris Marinelli, and Paul Duncan

Thoughts: The ZBS is officially over. I think McDaniels was wise to run a hybrid his first year based on the players that he had available. We can now start looking for more drive blocking/road grating from our O-line. Becoming more successful on short yardage plays was an issue on the mind of the coaching staff; three draft picks in the 2010 draft attests to this. And those picks could be very useful. If Clady cannot play for part or all of 2010, Beadles may start. Also, JD Walton may start as well if he can beat out Fry in training camp. Overall, I like this group.

The rookies have a ton of upside, we have pro-bowl caliber players in Clady, Harris, and Kuper, and we have good depth with Hochstien, Batiste, and Barton. I think the line is still a year away from being an elite unit, but in year two of a rebuilding program the Broncs are on track.

Questions:

--Does Clady come back for 2010? If so, when? Should he come back? If Denver is still a year away from making a legitimate run at a championship, (and is that a true statement,) should Clady just recuperate for a year to be 100% when 2011 rolls around?

--Is Ryan harris healthy?

--How many rooks get playing time this year? Does JD Walton start? Is it a bad thing if he does?

--Does Polumbus, Hochstien or Batiste crack the starting lineup?

--Will the new system be more effective than the ZBS of the past? If not, is that OK if the passing game picks up more of the slack in total productivity? Also, will the new system be more effective in short yardage situations?


--Assuming that everyone is healthy, does this unit have the ability to protect Orton/Quinn/Our lord and saviour Tim Tebow? What if Beadles/Polumbus/Batiste has to play due to injury?

--Anyone know anything about the unknowns in camp? Are tey TC fodder, or do they have a chance to make the squad and contribute?

OK, training camp is coming soon. i will be very interested to see how the rookies fare, and which vets are on their A game.

Discuss, by Foneco, discuss!

FireFly
07-18-2010, 06:43 PM
It hadn't even occured to me that Clady would be out for the season.

If he is, we'll struggle to win more than 4-5 games for the season - YES I think he makes that much of a difference. If Harris is out as well, it could get very very ugly.

Like everyone that will post after me, I am excited about the potential of our rookies and younger O-line players. I think that a middle 3 of Beadles, Walton and Kuper could be very good bordering on great for many years to come.

Broncoman13
07-18-2010, 06:51 PM
Olsen isn't a Shanny hold over

broncosteven
07-18-2010, 07:19 PM
We have a huge question mark at C. It will be interesting to see how that plays out. as well as how they cover for Clady, and possibly Harris.

Popps
07-18-2010, 07:59 PM
Clady being out all season isn't an option. Dude needs to come back.

strafen
07-18-2010, 08:07 PM
Clady may or may not be ready for at least 4-5 games into the season. Let's hope he comes back when he's absolutely ready to play.
His presence or lack thereof will be impacted by who our starting QB will be.
If it's Orton, we may see some negative impact from the QB play perspective.

Overall, I think the Ol is much better than last year. At least on paper it seems to be more complete and with the right personnel McD wants to run the PBS.
Also, I like the prospects we have at center and LG.

Broncos24
07-18-2010, 08:24 PM
Seth Olsen was drafted last year in the fourth round.

SoCalBronco
07-18-2010, 08:41 PM
I'm very interested to see how the interior shakes out. I'm a little bit hesitant with the prospect of Beadles starting at LG and Walton at C (to clarify my stance, I'm not questioning the actual prospects in and of themselves, they are good picks I believe, I'm just wary of the initial problems they are likely to face as rookie starters if it gets to the point that they are penciled in for opening day). Hopefully, both of those guys will be as prepared as possible...people just have to be patient with the OL in the beginning because it may not be pretty at all. It's got the potential to be awesome when some of these guys have some experience and the outstanding bookends are healthy. Kuper at RG right now is the only truly rock solid spot with zero questions at all. I'm hoping Harris's back doesn't act up again, because he was playing at an extremely high level before that. I suspect Clady will probably miss a few games, but I'd be shocked if it were really a season ending deal. Perhaps a month is more realistic, as he'd have to get back in game shape even if he were healthy by August.

BroncoBuff
07-18-2010, 09:05 PM
We have a huge question mark at C.

Watch it, bub ... don't mess with my man.

Can't evaluate anything really. Until we know Clady and Harris's status, it's just shootin' in the dark. Guess one will be ready, the other won't, and if it's Harrris he can slide over to LT if necessary, that leaves Polumbus and Beadles to choose from? Ugh ........

I'm thinking the interior will be okay. Young, but workable. Walton at center, and Olsen, Beadles or Hochstein at guard. Can't see Fry helping, we're his 4th team in three years.

Requiem
07-18-2010, 09:10 PM
SoCal,

Foot issues sidelined Harris last season, not back.

BroncoBuff
07-18-2010, 09:11 PM
I know ... Let's trade for Montrae Holland!

SoCalBronco
07-18-2010, 09:17 PM
SoCal,

Foot issues sidelined Harris last season, not back.

I know, but the back issue has been something that has been recurrent in his career a few times now.

Popps
07-18-2010, 09:17 PM
The Hotel, tackle Flozell Adams, made brief trips to Denver and Pittsburgh this offseason to display his wares. But he remains very available, his agent would like to remind you.

Jason La Canfora of NFL Network reports Adams continues to look for "the best fit." (And by "best fit" he means "most money.") A signing with Pittsburgh doesn't appear imminent -- it's uncertain if the Steelers are willing to meet Adams' price. It sounds like the left tackle remains happy to see if there are any more injuries in training camp that could spark a bidding war.

If Adams doesn't choose the Steelers, La Canfora writes that Pittsburgh plans to change around their whole offensive line. Max Starks could move from left tackle to right tackle, and Trai Essex would move from right guard to left tackle. (That leaves right guard open, for the reading impaired.)

We're curious if the Steelers fans out there think Flozell is worth the money and if Essex on the left side scares the crap out you.

-PFT




I wonder what Adams is looking for?

If Clady really is going to miss that much time, we should consider something like this.
Lining up a stiff at LT all season is a recipe for disaster.

BroncoBuff
07-18-2010, 09:33 PM
Flozell makes no sense unless Clady will miss more than half the season. Can he even play RT? If not, he's a expensive backup when Clady does return.

There has to be a better way, there must be somebody else out there.

JCMElway
07-18-2010, 09:38 PM
Seth Olsen was drafted last year in the fourth round.

noted

ZONA
07-18-2010, 11:27 PM
#1 - there is no timetable for Clady. I think the staff will do their best to rehab him but he will come back only when he's ready to be effective. If that's mid season, late season or next season, so be it.

#2 - Center position really killed the short yardage drive blocking last season. We've got more beef up front in Walton but he's a rook. I suspect he will make his rook mistakes here and there but I think short yardage and goal line we'll look better with the added beef.

#3 - Harris has to really shine this year. He's had some good time off and hopefully he's hit the training room hard and will be an allpro RG for us this year. He's got the talent to do it.

#4 - Run right. With Clady out, I think the right side is going to be our strength early, with Walton, Kuper and Harris on that side.

SouthStndJunkie
07-18-2010, 11:34 PM
The Hotel, tackle Flozell Adams, made brief trips to Denver and Pittsburgh this offseason to display his wares. But he remains very available, his agent would like to remind you.

Jason La Canfora of NFL Network reports Adams continues to look for "the best fit." (And by "best fit" he means "most money.") A signing with Pittsburgh doesn't appear imminent -- it's uncertain if the Steelers are willing to meet Adams' price. It sounds like the left tackle remains happy to see if there are any more injuries in training camp that could spark a bidding war.

If Adams doesn't choose the Steelers, La Canfora writes that Pittsburgh plans to change around their whole offensive line. Max Starks could move from left tackle to right tackle, and Trai Essex would move from right guard to left tackle. (That leaves right guard open, for the reading impaired.)

We're curious if the Steelers fans out there think Flozell is worth the money and if Essex on the left side scares the crap out you.

-PFT




I wonder what Adams is looking for?

If Clady really is going to miss that much time, we should consider something like this.
Lining up a stiff at LT all season is a recipe for disaster.

Flozell would like a fat 2 or 3 year deal, but will probably end up settling for a 1 year deal in the $4 to $5 million dollar range.

meangene
07-19-2010, 03:00 AM
Michael Lombardi said on NFLN a week or so ago that all signs point to Clady being active week 1. FWIW.

dbfan21
07-19-2010, 06:15 AM
Michael Lombardi said on NFLN a week or so ago that all signs point to Clady being active week 1. FWIW.

I hope he's right. Clady is vital to our offensive gameplan!

bowtown
07-19-2010, 06:32 AM
I wonder what Adams is looking for?


The first 2 weeks of training camp to be over.

meangene
07-19-2010, 06:42 AM
I hope he's right. Clady is vital to our offensive gameplan!

Yes he is! If he is out more than a couple weeks, it would be devastating. Lombardi typically has reliable information, so keeping the fingers crossed.

Mediator12
07-19-2010, 06:42 AM
This OL is going to be very different from last year. The single best predictive factor on the OL is playing together in NFL games for a long time. Therefore, this OL is going to have to get a lot of reps in TC and Preseason. And then, we should look at what they will be able to do.

I still remember this board freaking out when Lepsis was getting abused moving from RT to LT in preseason. I seem to remember that regular season move being much better than people thought it would be ;D

Cito Pelon
07-19-2010, 07:10 AM
The OL's ability to start the season as a cohesive, effective unit is a big ? to me right now. If they do it will be a testament to the player's intelligence, teamwork, and work ethic and also a testament to the O coaching staff - and other O players to some degree.

It's hard to say accurately right now of course, but I imagine that in the preseason games the OL will sometimes look pretty uncoordinated. The QB's better be prepared to throw the ball away, I'm thinking, wisdom being the better part of valor as they say. Preseason games can get pretty blitz-happy, and there just hasn't been a lot of time for the OL to work together.

As people have said, we'll have to be patient and not rag on them too much if it looks a little ugly at first.

bowtown
07-19-2010, 07:18 AM
As people have said, we'll have to be patient and not rag on them too much if it looks a little ugly at first.

Good luck with that.

Cito Pelon
07-19-2010, 08:11 AM
Good luck with that.

There's no doubt in my mind that some early OL troubles will result in an exponential reaction on the Mane.

cmhargrove
07-19-2010, 09:03 AM
I am cautiously optimistic about the O-line, but obviously we don't know the health status of Clady (and even if Harris is fully healed).

I think the rookies could come right in and contribute - i'm really not nervous about that.

I think one of the best things going this year will be the competition at QB. If Orton is playing for a new contract (somewhere), I think he will sell out for the team. Why does that matter you ask? I think he should understand the playbook even better, be able to identify more open targets, and will try to be more mobile (instead of falling down with a stiff breeze). All Orton had to do was move his feet a few games last year and we would have made the playoffs.

underrated29
07-19-2010, 09:05 AM
Walton is a plug and play type guy. Yes, every rookie will make mistakes, but the man is already taking command of the line. He will be a rock from day 1.

Plus he is just one mean nasty mutha F'a!




Everybody always gripes about clady. My money is he is back and starting for game 1. Watch and see.

My only real question is at LG...I like beadles but not as much at LG, and I think eric or seth might be better. However, Clady, JD, Kupes, Harris- is pretty dam fantastic. Our OL is going to be a beast when our guys are running full speed.

**Did I mention how much I hate basketball***

Rabb
07-19-2010, 09:35 AM
I am cautiously optimistic about the O-line, but obviously we don't know the health status of Clady (and even if Harris is fully healed).

I think the rookies could come right in and contribute - i'm really not nervous about that.

I think one of the best things going this year will be the competition at QB. If Orton is playing for a new contract (somewhere), I think he will sell out for the team. Why does that matter you ask? I think he should understand the playbook even better, be able to identify more open targets, and will try to be more mobile (instead of falling down with a stiff breeze). All Orton had to do was move his feet a few games last year and we would have made the playoffs.

that is just such a silly thing to say

Does Orton moving his feet equal the defense stopping McNabb on 3rd and 25? Or does it help stop a late-game WINNING drive at home by the unemployed Jamarcus Russell?

I do agree with the premise of what you are saying about QB competition, I think it will be solid but that statement...come on

cmhargrove
07-19-2010, 09:48 AM
that is just such a silly thing to say

Does Orton moving his feet equal the defense stopping McNabb on 3rd and 25? Or does it help stop a late-game WINNING drive at home by the unemployed Jamarcus Russell?

I do agree with the premise of what you are saying about QB competition, I think it will be solid but that statement...come on

I understand what you are saying, and you are taking my comments a little out of context. This discussion is really about the offense, and o-line. I don't disagree for a second about the collapse of the defense, but that is another topic altogether.

Orton moving his feet is a very pertinent topic because that's what a QB must do while the O-line is suspect or learning to work together. Make one or two moves if necessary, buy a second or two on your own skill, then make the play. Very few QB's have the luxury of standing tall in the pocket while a play develops for 4-5 seconds, and Orton probably won't have that luxury this year either.

The contract year, and the two QB's on the roster right under Orton make it even more relevant. Both of those backup Qb's are physically strong and aren't afraid to fight for first down with their feet if necessary. That is essentially important when the play breaks down.

Rabb
07-19-2010, 09:51 AM
definitely agree that he needs to be more mobile

oubronco
07-19-2010, 09:55 AM
Harris is already healled I believe and Clady has to get back to 100% (if thats possible this year) then they just need to gell, with the versatility of the young guys and the returning starters I think we have one of the better o-lines we've had in a while

just my two cents

Irish Stout
07-19-2010, 09:59 AM
I am really excited to see both Walton and Beadles in TC. I think these two rooks could really make a huge difference for our O.

I can't help but be excited about the direction of this o-line... just need people to heal and stay healthy.... and not play basketball.

v2micca
07-19-2010, 10:05 AM
Good luck with that.

No kidding. Clady really spoiled us by dominating his Rookie season.

Cito Pelon
07-19-2010, 11:17 AM
definitely agree that he needs to be more mobile

Agreed with Hargrove and you that the old dog Orton has to learn some more tricks.

Orton is actually pretty fast on his feet when he wants to be. Dude sprinted down the field pretty damn good to congratulate players after he completed some long TD passes. He showed some impressive speed. Apparently Orton has some kind of problem btwn his ears that prevents him from showing that speed before he completes the pass.

kupesdad
07-19-2010, 04:50 PM
Watch it, bub ... don't mess with my man.

Can't evaluate anything really. Until we know Clady and Harris's status, it's just shootin' in the dark. Guess one will be ready, the other won't, and if it's Harrris he can slide over to LT if necessary, that leaves Polumbus and Beadles to choose from? Ugh ........

I'm thinking the interior will be okay. Young, but workable. Walton at center, and Olsen, Beadles or Hochstein at guard. Can't see Fry helping, we're his 4th team in three years.

Kuper has played at rg on a few occasions and played very well... he has also played C for a few plays. regardless, he will help the center with the line call so we should do ok. from what I've heard Harris is in pretty good condition and should be ok.
EDIT...I meant RT not RG

Popps
07-19-2010, 04:51 PM
Kuper has played at rg on a few occasions and played very well... he has also played C for a few plays. regardless, he will help the center with the line call so we should do ok. from what I've heard Harris is in pretty good condition and should be ok.
EDIT...I meant RT not RG

That would be a huge boost, particularly if we're missing Clady for any amount of time.

SoCalBronco
07-19-2010, 04:53 PM
Kuper has played at rg on a few occasions and played very well... he has also played C for a few plays. regardless, he will help the center with the line call so we should do ok. from what I've heard Harris is in pretty good condition and should be ok.
EDIT...I meant RT not RG

Hey Mr. Kuper, have you heard anything about Clady's progress?

elsid13
07-19-2010, 05:00 PM
Hey Mr. Kuper, have you heard anything about Clady's progress?

Wrong Question. The real question is what has Chris bought his mom, his wife and Kaylore with the signing bonus from the new contract?

Dr. Broncenstein
07-19-2010, 06:26 PM
Hey Mr. Kuper, have you heard anything about Clady's progress?

http://rationallythinkingoutloud.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/bagdad_bob_large.gif

The knee is okie dokie my friends. Nothing to worry about.

baja
07-19-2010, 06:45 PM
http://rationallythinkingoutloud.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/bagdad_bob_large.gif

The knee is okie dokie my friends. Nothing to worry about.


It's better than that he was fitted with a biontic knee he could play on one leg if he had to.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-19-2010, 06:49 PM
It's better than that he was fitted with a biontic knee he could play on one leg if he had to.

I heard they were pouring equal parts of glass plus, coconut oil, tussin, and unicorn semen on the knee... from a nettie pot. He'll be good to go.

baja
07-19-2010, 06:55 PM
I heard they were pouring equal parts of glass plus, coconut oil, tussin, and unicorn semen on the knee... from a nettie pot. He'll be good to go.

It's Windex, Glass Plus will kill him. I thought you were a doctor you should know that.

SoCalBronco
07-19-2010, 07:35 PM
I heard they were pouring equal parts of glass plus, coconut oil, tussin, and unicorn semen on the knee... from a nettie pot. He'll be good to go.

All the other stuff is just unnecessary and abusive billing on the part of the medical provider...the unicorn semen alone is more than enough to heal the knee. IMO...application of a couple teaspoons of that stuff and Clady should have full and painless range of motion..... in about 4 minutes. Tops.

Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Greek is still stuck in the Dark Ages so far as his methods go, so I wouldn't expect him to pick up on it.

baja
07-19-2010, 08:24 PM
All the other stuff is just unnecessary and abusive billing on the part of the medical provider...the unicorn semen alone is more than enough to heal the knee. IMO...application of a couple teaspoons of that stuff and Clady should have full and painless range of motion..... in about 4 minutes. Tops.

Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Greek is still stuck in the Dark Ages so far as his methods go, so I wouldn't expect him to pick up on it.

Does the Navy even allow unicorns to serve.

Just feed him a turkey sandwich that cures everything....

kupesdad
07-20-2010, 04:18 PM
Hey Mr. Kuper, have you heard anything about Clady's progress?

I haven't heard much about Clady. I know that Chris and Harris have been golfing recently and Harris is feeling pretty good and ready to go. As far as what Chris has given to his family after his contract. Chris is very generous and takes care of his family. We appreciate every thing he does.

BowlenBall
07-20-2010, 05:27 PM
I haven't heard much about Clady. I know that Chris and Harris have been golfing recently and Harris is feeling pretty good and ready to go. As far as what Chris has given to his family after his contract. Chris is very generous and takes care of his family. We appreciate every thing he does.

Kupesdad -- our man on the inside.

Nice to hear that about Ryan H. -- thanks for the info.

elsid13
07-21-2010, 01:00 PM
I haven't heard much about Clady. I know that Chris and Harris have been golfing recently and Harris is feeling pretty good and ready to go. As far as what Chris has given to his family after his contract. Chris is very generous and takes care of his family. We appreciate every thing he does.

How we supposed to covet with response like that???? ;D

ZONA
07-22-2010, 08:46 AM
This OL is going to be very different from last year. The single best predictive factor on the OL is playing together in NFL games for a long time.

That certainly helps but that's not the single biggest thing at all. Talent is the single biggest thing and there is no disputing that. 5 scrubs who have played together for 10 years are not going to play better then 5 HOF's who were together for 1 year. In fact, I'd say longevity is probably 3rd. I'd put talent first and then health second.

Lev Vyvanse
07-22-2010, 09:36 AM
That certainly helps but that's not the single biggest thing at all. Talent is the single biggest thing and there is no disputing that. 5 scrubs who have played together for 10 years are not going to play better then 5 HOF's who were together for 1 year. In fact, I'd say longevity is probably 3rd. I'd put talent first and then health second.

Health is a predictive factor? Wut.

lex
07-25-2010, 12:06 PM
Are they going to play Harris at LT? In some ways it would make sense when you consider Tebow is left handed.

Mediator12
07-25-2010, 08:51 PM
That certainly helps but that's not the single biggest thing at all. Talent is the single biggest thing and there is no disputing that. 5 scrubs who have played together for 10 years are not going to play better then 5 HOF's who were together for 1 year. In fact, I'd say longevity is probably 3rd. I'd put talent first and then health second.

Talent has no bearing on a OL chemistry, execution of talent does. Execution is what matters, and the Colts marginal OL proves it in spades. A total bunch of journeyman who make very few mistakes and are very effective. Not a lot of pure talent on that OL, heck even Saturday was a twice dumped UDFA. I bet you would have to look up any of the other starting OL. Not a single first rounder in that group. Oh yeah, they gave up the least amount of sacks in the NFL last year too ;D

Execution, not talent, is what makes a player effective in the NFL. Talent should help, but talent in and of itself is a horrible predictor.