The Iraq Tragedy

[TonyR]

It tells you something about the laws of unintended consequences (something missing from the neocon handbook) that the man they championed as Iraq's "democratic" leader, Nouri al-Maliki, recently went to Beirut to pay his respects to a Hezbollah mullah regarded as a terrorist by the neocon chorus. It also tells you something that the neocon attempt to impose crippling sanctions on Iran is now being undermined by ... large amounts of oil supplies getting to Iran by road via Iraqi Kurdistan.

What has neoconservatism achieved? In Afghanistan, the best possible option is a country dominated by an increasingly Islamist and nuclear-armed Pakistan. In Iraq, the best possible option is a country dominated by Shiites far more aligned with Iran than many Sunni Arab states. And so the upshot of the Bush-Cheney years is an empowerment of both Iran and Pakistan, the two Muslim countries either with or close to nuclear capacity. That is the end result of a policy designed above all to prevent WMDs getting into the hands of terrorists. I mean: you couldn't make this up.

And still they want more war. In fact, they are now angling for American support for Sunni Arab states (and Israel) to launch a war against the Shiite power of Iran. Not content with enmeshing the US in two intractable wars, they actually want America to take sides in the ancient intra-Muslim feud between Shiite and Sunni. Yes, that sounds like something brilliant doesn't it? No unintended consequences could come from diving into that briar patch.

And, remember, nothing in the neoconservative mind exists that can actually take account of flaws in their own thinking. Because neoconservatism is a doctrine, and a doctrine cannot have flaws, just as a neocon columnist can never make errors, or account for them.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/07/the-iraq-tragedy.html

[JJJ]

It tells you something about the laws of unintended consequences (something missing from the neocon handbook) that the man they championed as Iraq's "democratic" leader, Nouri al-Maliki, recently went to Beirut to pay his respects to a Hezbollah mullah regarded as a terrorist by the neocon chorus. It also tells you something that the neocon attempt to impose crippling sanctions on Iran is now being undermined by ... large amounts of oil supplies getting to Iran by road via Iraqi Kurdistan.

What has neoconservatism achieved? In Afghanistan, the best possible option is a country dominated by an increasingly Islamist and nuclear-armed Pakistan. In Iraq, the best possible option is a country dominated by Shiites far more aligned with Iran than many Sunni Arab states. And so the upshot of the Bush-Cheney years is an empowerment of both Iran and Pakistan, the two Muslim countries either with or close to nuclear capacity. That is the end result of a policy designed above all to prevent WMDs getting into the hands of terrorists. I mean: you couldn't make this up.

And still they want more war. In fact, they are now angling for American support for Sunni Arab states (and Israel) to launch a war against the Shiite power of Iran. Not content with enmeshing the US in two intractable wars, they actually want America to take sides in the ancient intra-Muslim feud between Shiite and Sunni. Yes, that sounds like something brilliant doesn't it? No unintended consequences could come from diving into that briar patch.

And, remember, nothing in the neoconservative mind exists that can actually take account of flaws in their own thinking. Because neoconservatism is a doctrine, and a doctrine cannot have flaws, just as a neocon columnist can never make errors, or account for them.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/07/the-iraq-tragedy.html


Huh on both of those rather silly conclusions.

The only thing the neocons have accomplished so far is the establishment of two reasonably working democracies in the most extreme part of the middle east, something people said was impossible.

If you think Iran wasn't going to growing in power regardless of the actions of the neocons then you really haven't been paying attention very well.

The fact is the folks in the middle east will get to see two very contrasting styles of government working there over the next decade. We will see which comes out as the wave of the future.

It seems the people within Iran have already decided which style they prefer if the massive protests are any indication.

[mhgaffney]

Two reasonably working democracies?

You are talking about two failed states. Thanks in large part to US imperialism.

[JJJ]

Two reasonably working democracies?

You are talking about two failed states. Thanks in large part to US imperialism.

American imperialism spreading that evil prosperity (Germany, Japan, South Korea), peace (Bosnia, Kosovo), relief aid (Tsunami, Haiti), and democracy (Iraq, Afghanistan) throughout the world. Oh, the horror.

[cutthemdown]

We will know more about Iraq when Obama and Biden withdraw. I think its too early and they are blowing it but I hope I am wrong.

[JJJ]

We will know more about Iraq when Obama and Biden withdraw. I think its too early and they are blowing it but I hope I am wrong.

Withdrawl is at least 5 to 6 years off.

[TonyR]

As a result of the Iraq fiasco, the direct influence of neoconservatism has clearly waned. But nearly two years into the Obama era, it has become clear that its most lasting legacy is not a set of policies or strategies, but a reframing of debates about American foreign policy around a number of neoconservative assumptions. To a surprising degree, those assumptions – among them, that the current threats facing the US are unprecedented; that, in a time of war, military strategy must guide diplomacy, and not vice versa; and that even modest compromises with opponents would call America’s “credibility” into question – continue to dominate the agenda in Washington and the mass media. The last decade has shown, again and again, the failures of this line of thinking – and yet it continues to haunt American discourse, a zombie ideology that refuses to die.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100709/REVIEW/707089961/1008

[Rohirrim]

"A zombie ideology that refuses to die." That's about it.

This is my biggest disappointment in Obama. He said he was going to undo Bushworld. He has yet to do anything about it, other than validate its assumptions.

[JJJ]

"A zombie ideology that refuses to die." That's about it.

This is my biggest disappointment in Obama. He said he was going to undo Bushworld. He has yet to do anything about it, other than validate its assumptions.

That is typically the problem when the underlying assumptions you are trying invalidate are actually correct.

[Requiem]

Functioning democracies? Lol.

[JJJ]

Functioning democracies? Lol.

As functional as the Cloggies I would say. Quite the eclectic mix of parliamentary democracy and constitutional monarchy you got there.

By the way Lufthansa starts flying to Baghdad in September. They have been flying to Erbil in the Kurdish section since April.

[Requiem]

Oh, really? Thanks for the tip. I was definitely looking to go to Baghdad for vacation. I'm glad you used air travel as your measuring stick for democratic functionality.