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titan
07-04-2010, 07:09 AM
http://gazettebroncos.freedomblogging.com/2010/07/04/with-tebow-how-much-do-mechanics-matter/

With Tebow, how much do mechanics matter?
by Frank Schwab

For all the ink that has been spilled on Tim Tebow's mechanics (including a whole bunch in today's Gazette), two men who worked with Tebow this offseason want you to know something:

Mechanics don't matter all that much for a quarterback.

Former NFL coach Sam Wyche and longtime NFL offensive coordinator and current CFL coach Marc Trestman aren't saying mechanics are meaningless. Tebow has a better chance for success with the Denver Broncos without his long baseball-type windup. (Although, to repeat something from today's story, Wyche said he didn't think Randall Cunningham would make it in the NFL when he saw his long delivery coming out of college. Cunningham didn't change much, and as Wyche pointed out in a deadpan, "Randall Cunningham did all right.")

But both coaches started their interviews about quarterback mechanics by sharing the same sentiment.

"At the end of the day, mechanics are probably the last thing on the list or requirements to play quarterback at the highest level," Trestman said.
"That's very, very overdone," Wyche said of attention paid to a quarterback's mechanics.

...

An improved throwing motion will help, but based on the thoughts of two respected quarterback coaches, one ha to wonder if the teeth-gnashing about Tebow's mechanics really has much bearing on whether he'll be a successful NFL quarterback.

"The guy is a winner," Wyche said. "I've been around too many that turned out good."

BroncoBuff
07-04-2010, 07:52 AM
I'm no expert on mechanics, but if he's changing his during Senior Bowl week, the real experts must've been pretty concerned.

Kaylore
07-04-2010, 08:50 AM
Mechanics can help with accuracy and protecting the ball which are both very important to being a good QB. I still maintain that a "slow release" is incredibly overrated and if the other things are good it won't matter (See Elway patting the ball before every throw effectively telegraphing where he was throwing. Also see Rivers slow release and low velocity throws. Accuracy and timing trump both these.)

Tebow holding the ball low exposes him to getting stripped a lot the way Rapistburger does (he holds it by his leg sometimes). Also keeping your body tight on the motion helps improve accuracy, stability and power. His leg fail thing not only limits accuracy but makes him vulnerable.

So while mechanics in the abstract can be overstated, looking at which aspect of his mechanics are being worked on and why (ie doing your job, journalist) can reveal how important they are. In Tebow's case, they are critical.

Cito Pelon
07-04-2010, 08:53 AM
I think proper mechanics are very helpful for a QB. There's been quite a few NFL QB's that didn't have the classic perfect setup and release, but every QB is a little bit different. Some have it all, some have to work on the little things (or be great runners) to be successful as NFL QB's.

The little things count a lot sometimes. Jake Plummer was a little shaky as a pocket-passer, but he was superb at selling play-action. Cutler was horrible selling the play-action, hell he'd often just wave the ball in the RB's general direction, but he was/is a pretty good pocket passer.

Tebow is right to work on his mechanics, IMO. If it can be improved, he should do so. Why limit himself? Why not try to be perfect? Look at a guy like Matt Hasselbeck, he's not an athletic QB at all, not a strong arm, but he executed and had some good years. He had his feet exactly where they were supposed to be, had his timing down with his receivers, good accuracy.

Look at Peyton Manning, he's not a great athlete, but he has perfect mechanics. His drops and timing are precise, he has his feet set properly when he throws, has his body positioned properly to get max velocity and accuracy.

Look at Dan Marino, one of the slowest players ever in the NFL, but his superfast release, accuracy, timing made him one of the most prolific passers ever (along with rule changes that penalized getting after the QB).

Look at Roger The Dodger Staubach (who I think is a good comparison to Tebow), he was raw and inexperienced with poor mechanics coming out of the Navy, but he was a winner. If Tebow can improve his mechanics he could have a better career than Staubach.

So I'd like to see Tebow work to have the perfect setup and release and actually accomplish it. It just makes him that much better, makes him more dangerous.

Cito Pelon
07-04-2010, 09:00 AM
Mechanics can help with accuracy and protecting the ball which are both very important to being a good QB. I still maintain that a "slow release" is incredibly overrated and if the other things are good it won't matter (See Elway patting the ball before every throw effectively telegraphing where he was throwing. Also see Rivers slow release and low velocity throws. Accuracy and timing trump both these.)

Tebow holding the ball low exposes him to getting stripped a lot the way Rapistburger does (he holds it by his leg sometimes). Also keeping your body tight on the motion helps improve accuracy, stability and power. His leg fail thing not only limits accuracy but makes him vulnerable.

So while mechanics in the abstract can be overstated, looking at which aspect of his mechanics are being worked on and why (ie doing your job, journalist) can reveal how important they are. In Tebow's case, they are critical.

I agree. Tebow I guess could be ok without trying to be perfect. The OP mentioned Cunningham, and he used to get reamed for that slow release in the red zone where a quick snap throw is helpful.

I figure it's good for Tebow to work hard to get the perfect mechanics. It sure won't hurt.

elsid13
07-04-2010, 09:06 AM
People are to focused on Tebow upper body/arm and not on his feet. He got to get his feet set better if he wants to be successful in the NFL. Right now he's unbalanced on most of his throws and doesn't set up with a good base out of his drops.

CEH
07-04-2010, 09:25 AM
"At the end of the day, mechanics are probably the last thing on the list or requirements to play quarterback at the highest level," Trestman said.


I think this is kinda how Josh feels.

His mechanics need work because I don't think he will move around the pocket like an Elway or Cunningham. He may have that 6th sense in the pocket at the NFL level I don't know since we haven't seen him play. I know he won't out run LBers.

They are working hard right on ecomony of motion type drills. Towel under is right arm , tighter body and arm motions. They have already worked on improving his release point buying him 2 more feet from on coming rushers.
That might be all he needs and 1000's of reps to ingrain the new motions

Can Tebow read defenses and fit balls into tigher windows that will really be where he succeeds of fails.

footstepsfrom#27
07-04-2010, 09:56 AM
I think mechanics are important but leadership and the other intangibles this guy has are far and away more important. Does anyone really think this kid won't work it out? He's outworking everyone so I see no reason he won't adapt to whatever he has to do. Over-analysis and paralysis...just like what happens in the draft. Three years from now people will be shaking their heads that anyone doubted Tebow would be successful.

strafen
07-04-2010, 11:21 AM
The only part of Tebow's mechanic's that concerned me was his tendency to hold the ball low while moving around the pocket as it has been talked about plenty . This has been fixed.
I still believe his other great tangibles and intangibles makes his mechanic's flaws not so much of a big hindrance in his game...

footstepsfrom#27
07-04-2010, 11:38 AM
It's interesting that people focus so much on the tangibles when those are things that can be coached into or out of a player over time, but it's the intangibles that are either there or they're not...those things, leadership, character, a level of competitiveness that rises to the highest degree, the ability to shoulder a team in the time of greatest pressure and perform when others can't...those are the things that can't really be taught or coached, and they're far more vital for success, yet most fans focus on combine results, what some scout or GM says, arm strength, mechanics, etc...and most of those things are either less important or they can be fixed. Give me rare leadership ability, outstanding character and a guy who won't settle for less than being the best...I"ll take that and win all day long. What truly amazes me is that we see so many examples of talent that fails...Russel for example...that we ought to have understood this lesson by now. Choose what can't be taught, coached or practiced into someone and grab that...then work on the rest. Tebow will be amazing when he figures it out. We just got to be a little patient because this guy will produce at the NFL level despite what the so called experts think.

strafen
07-04-2010, 11:45 AM
It's interesting that people focus so much on the tangibles when those are things that can be coached into or out of a player over time, but it's the intangibles that are either there or they're not...those things, leadership, character, a level of competitiveness that rises to the highest degree, the ability to shoulder a team in the time of greatest pressure and perform when others can't...those are the things that can't really be taught or coached, and they're far more vital for success, yet most fans focus on combine results, what some scout or GM says, arm strength, mechanics, etc...and most of those things are either less important or they can be fixed. Give me rare leadership ability, outstanding character and a guy who won't settle for less than being the best...I"ll take that and win all day long. What truly amazes me is that we see so many examples of talent that fails...Russel for example...that we ought to have understood this lesson by now. Choose what can't be taught, coached or practiced into someone and grab that...then work on the rest. Tebow will be amazing when he figures it out. We just got to be a little patient because this guy will produce at the NFL level despite what the so called experts think.I'll take Tebow's intangibles over any other tangible flaw he may have.
You're right, intangibles can not be taught or coached, either you have it or you don't. It's also referred as the "IT" factor that has been the common denominator in those QB's ever considered to be the best in the game.
I personally believe Tebow will surprise a lot of people. I hope they let things run their course and not expect too much too early from the guy...

broncogary
07-04-2010, 11:57 AM
It's interesting that people focus so much on the tangibles when those are things that can be coached into or out of a player over time, but it's the intangibles that are either there or they're not...those things, leadership, character, a level of competitiveness that rises to the highest degree, the ability to shoulder a team in the time of greatest pressure and perform when others can't...those are the things that can't really be taught or coached, and they're far more vital for success, yet most fans focus on combine results, what some scout or GM says, arm strength, mechanics, etc...and most of those things are either less important or they can be fixed. Give me rare leadership ability, outstanding character and a guy who won't settle for less than being the best...I"ll take that and win all day long. What truly amazes me is that we see so many examples of talent that fails...Russel for example...that we ought to have understood this lesson by now. Choose what can't be taught, coached or practiced into someone and grab that...then work on the rest. Tebow will be amazing when he figures it out. We just got to be a little patient because this guy will produce at the NFL level despite what the so called experts think.

A perfect example is Joe Montana.

gyldenlove
07-04-2010, 12:11 PM
Mechanics are not the be all end all of a quarterback, however it is important for a number of reasons, firstly mechanics go towards consistency, it is no use being able to laser the 30 yard deep out if you are unable to consistently hit the short hitch or in routes.

Chad Pennington has impecable mechanics and he makes his living that way despite his obvious athletic limitations, Mike Vick had amazing mechanics and unmatched athletic ability but lacked the accuracy, consistency and size to put it all together. On the other hand Roethlisberger has the mechanics of a drunk 2-year old but he makes that work.

What it really comes down to is if Tebow can keep up with the mental side of the game while on the same time having the accuracy and consistency needed to survive behind center in the NFL he can have success despite his unorthodox mechanics.

footstepsfrom#27
07-04-2010, 12:13 PM
A perfect example is Joe Montana.
Yep...also Drew Brees is a great example, and nobody talks about mechanics or any of that stuff if a guy wins. Winning at the college level is different...I get that...but some fans over emphasize that as well. If you've got the ability to make others around you better and inspire confidence, assuming some basic benchmark skills exist, that is something that exists despite the level of competition. This guy's the most fiery competitor I've ever seen at the college level, and I've got no doubt he continues that once he settles into grasping the NFL game.

OCBronco
07-04-2010, 02:05 PM
People seemed to complain about how Tebow dips the ball before winding up to throw. To those people, I would have them take a look at Steve Young's release:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBuGr1pDEEM


I would say the bigger thing with Tebow is speeding up his release and decision making, and also correcting some of the flaws with the rest of his body.

By the way, while I'm making Steve Young comparisons, check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jie8tt0BI

The similarities in how Young and Tebow were assessed coming out college are spooky.

Rausch 2.0
07-04-2010, 02:11 PM
I think with a round 3 contract he could be huge for you.

He would have come in without the FOOTBALL JESUS tag and could have Kordell Stewart-ed into the lineup as he got comfortable.

To me, this pick was like the Chiefs drafting a ****ING 3-4 D3 IN THE MOTHER****ING TOP 5!

*breathing......*

*baby steps*

I think if you use him like a Kordell you'll have a $#it ton of explosive trick/mix up plays that can catch a defense off guard. From punting on the 30 to a TD.

I'm just glad you didn't hire Chan Gailey after the Jesus Christ of football, Todd (I hate everyone and told grandma' to shove it up 'er 'gunt) Haley, gave him the big diss...

Xenos
07-04-2010, 02:27 PM
Mechanics can help with accuracy and protecting the ball which are both very important to being a good QB. I still maintain that a "slow release" is incredibly overrated and if the other things are good it won't matter (See Elway patting the ball before every throw effectively telegraphing where he was throwing. Also see Rivers slow release and low velocity throws. Accuracy and timing trump both these.)

Tebow holding the ball low exposes him to getting stripped a lot the way Rapistburger does (he holds it by his leg sometimes). Also keeping your body tight on the motion helps improve accuracy, stability and power. His leg fail thing not only limits accuracy but makes him vulnerable.

So while mechanics in the abstract can be overstated, looking at which aspect of his mechanics are being worked on and why (ie doing your job, journalist) can reveal how important they are. In Tebow's case, they are critical.
Except that Rivers doesn't have a slow release though. His release is funky but there's no wasted motion at all.

Tebow just needs to find the right balance. He doesn't have to have the quickest release, but he can't have the long windups like Leftwhich either.

OCBronco
07-04-2010, 03:52 PM
Except that Rivers doesn't have a slow release though. His release is funky but there's no wasted motion at all.

Tebow just needs to find the right balance. He doesn't have to have the quickest release, but he can't have the long windups like Leftwhich either.


Rivers' motion also has a dip and a strange loop in it. Despite this, he gets rid of the ball quickly. Perhaps that's what you mean when you say it's efficient.

Check out the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86A_MlcOazo

Xenos
07-04-2010, 04:40 PM
Rivers' motion also has a dip and a strange loop in it. Despite this, he gets rid of the ball quickly. Perhaps that's what you mean when you say it's efficient.

Check out the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86A_MlcOazo
That's not exactly the norm for him if you see a dip and strange loop in the throwing motion. Most of the time when he throws it, he essentially just shot puts it at a 3/4 angle and it looks like he doesn't really need to pull it back at all if that makes any sense. Most of the power of the throw comes from his torso and feet. It looks a lot like he's just pushing the ball forward.

strafen
07-04-2010, 05:05 PM
Anybody here remember Bernie Kosar from the Browns?
He was akward to put it mildly...

http://stillfootball.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/kosar1.jpg?w=510

Xenos
07-04-2010, 07:08 PM
Anybody here remember Bernie Kosar from the Browns?
He was akward to put it mildly...

http://stillfootball.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/kosar1.jpg?w=510
Marino also had a somewhat similar 3/4 release.

Ray Finkle
07-04-2010, 09:08 PM
I compare it to a hockey/lacrosse players shot mechanics. Natural athletes will find a way but if you refine their mechanics, you have a great chance of consistency. That is what Tebow needs consistent mechanics....

BroncoMan4ever
07-04-2010, 09:10 PM
i am not all that worried about his mechanics or how he looks throwing the ball, all i care about is the results.

look at Rivers, he has one of the weirdest throwing motions i have ever seen in the NFL, yet he is a top 5 QB in the league. if strange mechanics are getting the job done, who cares what he looks like throwing the ball.

boltaneer
07-05-2010, 01:15 AM
The key with Rivers mechanics is his quick release, not slow release. Rivers has a strange throwing motion but his footwork and everything else is fine.

I think it's hard to be successful with a slow release. Tebow needs to keep working to shorten it if he is going to succeed IMO. Maybe it's just because I'm so used to seeing Tebow's old slow release when I watch his new motion, it's quicker but it looks so stiff and forced. He doesn't look comfortable doing it yet.

BTW, Brees had all sorts of issues with his mechanics early in his career here. He can thank Brian Schottenheimer for being inept in that department. He actually sought coaching in the off season because he wasn't getting it from Marty's boy. I think Sean Peyton has worked wonders with him since arriving in New Orleans because Brees now is the poster boy for perfect mechanics.

You guys had better hope little McD doesn't turn out to be another Brian Schottenheimer, especially with a project like Tebow.

baja
07-05-2010, 07:13 AM
The key with Rivers mechanics is his quick release, not slow release. Rivers has a strange throwing motion but his footwork and everything else is fine.

I think it's hard to be successful with a slow release. Tebow needs to keep working to shorten it if he is going to succeed IMO. Maybe it's just because I'm so used to seeing Tebow's old slow release when I watch his new motion, it's quicker but it looks so stiff and forced. He doesn't look comfortable doing it yet.

BTW, Brees had all sorts of issues with his mechanics early in his career here. He can thank Brian Schottenheimer for being inept in that department. He actually sought coaching in the off season because he wasn't getting it from Marty's boy. I think Sean Peyton has worked wonders with him since arriving in New Orleans because Brees now is the poster boy for perfect mechanics.

You guys had better hope little McD doesn't turn out to be another Brian Schottenheimer, especially with a project like Tebow.
Np dobt, It's going to be all or nothing with McDaniels.

peacepipe
07-05-2010, 07:59 AM
I think(i hope i'm wrong) his mechanics or lack thereof. are a big reason I feel he'll be a bust. He's a poor mans version of Micheal Vick with a concussion problem.

montrose
07-05-2010, 08:06 AM
I think(i hope i'm wrong) his mechanics or lack thereof. are a big reason I feel he'll be a bust. He's a poor mans version of Micheal Vick with a concussion problem.

Plus he doesn't take enough chances and doesn't have a ROCKET ARM. No QB has ever been good without a rocket arm and he has to take lots and lots of chances. We had one, and traded him. Bears = Super Bowl because of Cutler.

peacepipe
07-05-2010, 08:30 AM
Plus he doesn't take enough chances and doesn't have a ROCKET ARM. No QB has ever been good without a rocket arm and he has to take lots and lots of chances. We had one, and traded him. Bears = Super Bowl because of Cutler.Cutler was an idiot. I've posted it before cutler had a million $ arm & a 2 cent head. You don't need a rocket arm, nor do you need to take a lot of chances, but you need to have the skills to take chances from time to time, not as if every play is going to be without risk. I would have rather the broncos signed Orton to a long term contract then to have drafted Tebow.

montrose
07-05-2010, 08:38 AM
Cutler was an idiot. I've posted it before cutler had a million $ arm & a 2 cent head. You don't need a rocket arm, nor do you need to take a lot of chances, but you need to have the skills to take chances from time to time, not as if every play is going to be without risk. I would have rather the broncos signed Orton to a long term contract then to have drafted Tebow.

Orton and Tebow suck, Cutler is the FUTURE of football!

Cito Pelon
07-05-2010, 09:22 AM
Cutler was an idiot. I've posted it before cutler had a million $ arm & a 2 cent head. You don't need a rocket arm, nor do you need to take a lot of chances, but you need to have the skills to take chances from time to time, not as if every play is going to be without risk. I would have rather the broncos signed Orton to a long term contract then to have drafted Tebow.

Nah, I think Tebow just has too much athletic ability and brains to be a bust. Not to mention he's a leader, teammates like him.

I didn't buy into all the hype pre-draft, in fact I didn't express a single opinion on this board on all the Tebow threads, but I'm liking everything I see and hear post-draft.

The best comment I heard was from McDaniels who said, "[Tebow] has been great so far. He keeps his mouth shut."

I have a hard time seeing Tebow as a bust, he just has too much confidence, brains, and skills, and puts the work in to bring it all together.

Don't worry too much about Orton. I think he'll do just fine this year.

Cito Pelon
07-05-2010, 09:32 AM
Orton and Tebow suck, Cutler is the FUTURE of football!

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/06/cutlers-yards-per-attempt-coming-into-focus.html

A quick little insertion here, don't mean to hijack, but this is kind of a funny comment on the article:

bearsfan_4_decades on June 23, 2010 3:36 AM
Martz & Cutler:

Aunt Blabby in her housedress and a the whiny pick-meister:

Now we've got TWO morphodite sumbitches on offense!

George Halas is rolling in his grave!

montrose
07-05-2010, 09:58 AM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/06/cutlers-yards-per-attempt-coming-into-focus.html

A quick little insertion here, don't mean to hijack, but this is kind of a funny comment on the article:

bearsfan_4_decades on June 23, 2010 3:36 AM
Martz & Cutler:

Aunt Blabby in her housedress and a the whiny pick-meister:

Now we've got TWO morphodite sumb****es on offense!

George Halas is rolling in his grave!

The Bears aren't worthy of Cutler's greatness.

OABB
07-05-2010, 10:40 AM
Montrose is killing me lately.

oubronco
07-05-2010, 11:09 AM
Found this and thought it was funny

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/283/243/91196787_display_image.jpg?1278130036

montrose
07-05-2010, 11:44 AM
Found this and thought it was funny

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/283/243/91196787_display_image.jpg?1278130036

That'll be the 25% of Broncos fans left at Invesco thanks to McMoron and his no-talent crew. If we can hire Kyle, think he can beg on his hands and knees for the great Scheffler and Hills to come back as free agents and save us?

titan
07-05-2010, 12:15 PM
I think Tebow will succeed or fail based on his ability to improvise when the play breaks down - something he did very well in college. Throwing mechanics are secondary. If you look at some of John Elway's great plays they were often plays he made scrambling and not with his rocket arm. See 4th down pass to Vance Johnson in the Houston playoff game comeback - the pass itself was just a short toss any nfl qb could have completed.

HAT
07-05-2010, 12:21 PM
bearsfan_4_decades on June 23, 2010 3:36 AM
Martz & Cutler:

Aunt Blabby in her housedress and a the whiny pick-meister:

Now we've got TWO morphodite sumb****es on offense!

George Halas is rolling in his grave!

Mock Haiku is going global! ^5

Cito Pelon
07-05-2010, 12:51 PM
Mock Haiku is going global! ^5

Mock Haiku certainly has export possibilities.

Captain 'Dre
07-05-2010, 01:27 PM
It's interesting that people focus so much on the tangibles when those are things that can be coached into or out of a player over time, but it's the intangibles that are either there or they're not...those things, leadership, character, a level of competitiveness that rises to the highest degree, the ability to shoulder a team in the time of greatest pressure and perform when others can't...those are the things that can't really be taught or coached, and they're far more vital for success, yet most fans focus on combine results, what some scout or GM says, arm strength, mechanics, etc...and most of those things are either less important or they can be fixed. Give me rare leadership ability, outstanding character and a guy who won't settle for less than being the best...I"ll take that and win all day long. What truly amazes me is that we see so many examples of talent that fails...Russel for example...that we ought to have understood this lesson by now. Choose what can't be taught, coached or practiced into someone and grab that...then work on the rest. Tebow will be amazing when he figures it out. We just got to be a little patient because this guy will produce at the NFL level despite what the so called experts think.

Agree.

Great leadership traits won't get the job done on their own, though, or else Danny Weurfel would've had at least a DECENT pro career.

Philip Rivers is a guy who's gotten by on questionable mechanics, and like Tebow has off-the-charts intangibles. But in Rivers' case, he's always thrown effectively (in spite of mechanics), whereas Tebow hasn't.

I think they are very similar guys. It's Tim's nature to work hard, and I'm sure he's open to modifying *whatever* if NFL level coaches are advising him that he needs to.

We're basically hoping that Tebow becomes our Rivers, aren't we? :sunshine:

Tombstone RJ
07-05-2010, 02:14 PM
If Tebow fails it won't be because of intangibles... it appears that the only thing holding him back are his lack of proper mechanics, so if he corrects this then he's got a great chance to be a good NFL QB.

Tom G
07-05-2010, 03:23 PM
I've asked this before: if TTs mechanics are so bad, how come his college passing stats are so outstanding? Answer by several posters is that it's much easier to compile good passing stats against college defenses than it will be in the pros, against far better DBs and far more sophisticated pass defense schemes.

OK, I get that.

But then, shouldn't most (all?) 1st round QBs have similar college stats to TTs? Well, not the case.

Some time ago, a poster compiled college passing stats for recent top college QBs, all high 1st rounders and NFL successes. None came close to TTs stats. Sorry, I couldn't find the post, but here are a couple of examples that I looked up.

I just looked up a couple of data points (% completions and TD/INT ratio) and only a couple of successfuls QBs (sorry, lazy) but it illustrates the point.

Tebow: 66.5%; 5.5 TD/INT ratio (!)
Elway: 62.1; 2.0
P. Manning: 60.0; 3.3

Tebows college TD/INT ratio, which is arguably the most important stat of all IMHO, is off the charts compared to almost all other high 1st round QBs.

So, about the question of his horrible mechanics, I'm optimistically hopeful that he will make it as a good NFL QB.

"Results count, every thing else is bull****" (anon)

HAT
07-05-2010, 03:31 PM
I've asked this before: if TTs mechanics are so bad, how come his college passing stats are so outstanding? Answer by several posters is that it's much easier to compile good passing stats against college defenses than it will be in the pros, against far better DBs and far more sophisticated pass defense schemes.

OK, I get that.

But then, shouldn't most (all?) 1st round QBs have similar college stats to TTs? Well, not the case.

Some time ago, a poster compiled college passing stats for recent top college QBs, all high 1st rounders and NFL successes. None came close to TTs stats.

You are probably referring to this entry from CHFF.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3171_A_tale_of_six_quarterbacks.html

Tom G
07-05-2010, 03:31 PM
.

But in Rivers' case, he's always thrown effectively (in spite of mechanics), whereas Tebow hasn't.



Well, the whole point of my post is that Tebow HAS thrown effectvely.

Tom G
07-05-2010, 03:35 PM
You are probably referring to this entry from CHFF.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3171_A_tale_of_six_quarterbacks.html

Yeah, that's it. Thanks

elsid13
07-05-2010, 04:01 PM
I've asked this before: if TTs mechanics are so bad, how come his college passing stats are so outstanding? Answer by several posters is that it's much easier to compile good passing stats against college defenses than it will be in the pros, against far better DBs and far more sophisticated pass defense schemes.

OK, I get that.

But then, shouldn't most (all?) 1st round QBs have similar college stats to TTs? Well, not the case.

Some time ago, a poster compiled college passing stats for recent top college QBs, all high 1st rounders and NFL successes. None came close to TTs stats. Sorry, I couldn't find the post, but here are a couple of examples that I looked up.

I just looked up a couple of data points (% completions and TD/INT ratio) and only a couple of successfuls QBs (sorry, lazy) but it illustrates the point.

Tebow: 66.5%; 5.5 TD/INT ratio (!)
Elway: 62.1; 2.0
P. Manning: 60.0; 3.3

Tebows college TD/INT ratio, which is arguably the most important stat of all IMHO, is off the charts compared to almost all other high 1st round QBs.

So, about the question of his horrible mechanics, I'm optimistically hopeful that he will make it as a good NFL QB.

"Results count, every thing else is bull****" (anon)

The spread option, which Myers and others run, have greatly inflated % completion and TDs. Add in the talent that Tebow had around him at UF and you are going to get great numbers. That not saying Tebow is bad, but completion % and TD/INT aren't always a good indicator of good QB is or how ready he to play in the NFL with today spread offenses. Both Elway and Manning ran traditional pro style offense that required them to take 3 to 7 step drops and turn their backs to the defense, so it is not fair to compare them to the spread option that Tebow ran.

Comparing QBs that ran the Myers style of Spread Option over the years, you will see that Myers system is very QB friendly -


UTAH
Terrance Cain 63.7% Completion 11 TD to 5 INT (1st year)
Brian Johnson 66% Completion 57 TD to 27 INT (4 years)
Alex Smith 67.5% Completion 32 TD to 4 INT (1 year)

UM (Rodriguez runs very similar system since both work together at Bowling Green)
Tate Forcier 58.7% 13 TD and 11 INT

WVU (Rodriguez style)
Brown 63.6% 16 TD to 13 INT (4 year average)
White 64.75% 56 TD to 23 INT (4 year average)

Plus don't forget guys like Josh Harris or other BGU QBs that had off the charts numbers with the system. Example Tyler Sheehan (64% completion, 70 TDs to 31 INT)

elsid13
07-05-2010, 04:22 PM
BTW

This great article about the Myers system

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/12/florida-gatorurban-meyer-offense.html