PDA

View Full Version : Is Dumervil worth a 65 mil contract?


bowtown
06-15-2010, 04:39 PM
Yes or No

broncswin
06-15-2010, 04:53 PM
This fence is starting to hurt my bean bag

Kaylore
06-15-2010, 04:54 PM
65 million, yes.

40 mil guaranteed, no.

hambone13
06-15-2010, 04:57 PM
65 million, yes.

40 mil guaranteed, no.

This.

TheReverend
06-15-2010, 05:09 PM
For anything 5 years or more, absolutely.

The Joker
06-15-2010, 05:10 PM
Over six years, yes.

As has been said, 40m guaranteed is an awfully large percentage.

TheReverend
06-15-2010, 05:12 PM
His production, skill set and impact equate insanely well with Dwight Freeney (same strengths, weaknesses, etc) and 3 years ago in 2007 Freeney signed a 72 million (30 guaranteed) for 6 years.

Dumervil at 65 and 40 is a good deal for both parties when you consider that players are being paid a good chunk more now than they were 3 years ago.

peacepipe
06-15-2010, 05:16 PM
Over six years, yes.

As has been said, 40m guaranteed is an awfully large percentage.Maybe so but he's earned it. Great players are not cheap, everybody seems to want good/great players until it comes time to pay them. you can't have it both ways. You either pay him or move on. He'll get his big contract, it's just a matter of wether he gets it from us or another team.

hambone13
06-15-2010, 05:22 PM
His production, skill set and impact equate insanely well with Dwight Freeney (same strengths, weaknesses, etc) and 3 years ago in 2007 Freeney signed a 72 million (30 guaranteed) for 6 years.

Dumervil at 65 and 40 is a good deal for both parties when you consider that players are being paid a good chunk more now than they were 3 years ago.

It's the proportion of the guaranteed money that I'm not comfortable with. 72/30 even sounds better than 65/40. Just make it incentive laden so if he his certain thresholds he gets his cash anyway.

Popps
06-15-2010, 05:32 PM
His production, skill set and impact equate insanely well with Dwight Freeney (same strengths, weaknesses, etc) and 3 years ago in 2007 Freeney signed a 72 million (30 guaranteed) for 6 years.


I think this is a good way of looking at it.

The other way is just that we can't afford NOT to overpay him, if that's what it takes to keep him.

He's just too rare of a commodity, even if he has weaknesses.

Taco John
06-15-2010, 05:37 PM
He deserves the same deal that Dwight Freeney got, IMO.

elsid13
06-15-2010, 05:45 PM
He is our only young proven difference maker on defense. So yes he is worth it, even if we overpay him.

TheReverend
06-15-2010, 05:45 PM
It's the proportion of the guaranteed money that I'm not comfortable with. 72/30 even sounds better than 65/40. Just make it incentive laden so if he his certain thresholds he gets his cash anyway.

1. It's not the final number. It's a negotiation point.

2. It's also 3 years later. More money should be expected.

SouthStndJunkie
06-15-2010, 05:46 PM
Is Elvis Dumervil worth $65 million?

How do you feel about entrusting Robert Ayers, Jarvis Moss and Darrell Reid to get to the QB on a consistent basis from the OLB position?

They have 10 sacks total between all three of then in their entire career of 9 combined years.....Elvis Dumervil had 10 sacks in the first 6 games of last year.

I'm not sure if all three of them working together would be able to drag Elvis Dumervil's jock across a practice field.

hambone13
06-15-2010, 05:49 PM
1. It's not the final number. It's a negotiation point.

2. It's also 3 years later. More money should be expected.

More guaranteed money? I think if they decided on a higher overall number and come in around 50% guaranteed, I'd be much more comfortable. Almost 2/3 just seems a bit steep.

montrose
06-15-2010, 05:52 PM
I obviously hope he's kept around and I certainly won't be upset if he's resigned to that, it's not my money, but I'm not sure he's worth that much on the open market. Still hope he stays.

Doggcow
06-15-2010, 05:52 PM
Is Elvis Dumervil worth $65 million?

How do you feel about entrusting Robert Ayers, Jarvis Moss and Darrell Reid to get to the QB on a consistent basis from the OLB position?

They have 10 sacks total between all three of then in their entire career of 9 combined years.....Elvis Dumervil had 10 sacks in the first 6 games of last year.

I'm not sure if all three of them working together would be able to drag Elvis Dumervil's jock across a practice field.

Lets be realistic though. Elvis was sacking some of the ****tier teams in the league :P

TheReverend
06-15-2010, 06:08 PM
More guaranteed money? I think if they decided on a higher overall number and come in around 50% guaranteed, I'd be much more comfortable. Almost 2/3 just seems a bit steep.

Yeah. Agents keep pushing for more of it guaranteed every year. Is that a high ratio? Sure, so?

hambone13
06-15-2010, 06:21 PM
Yeah. Agents keep pushing for more of it guaranteed every year. Is that a high ratio? Sure, so?

So if he was a more complete player it would be easier to swallow. We need to start stopping the run, bottom line. My junk hurts from my fence riding on this topic because I love the guy in general, from a character and sacking potential perspective but he has a hard time getting off the block horizontally against the run. If he's a liability during run plays, I just have a hard time w/ so much guaranteed money. He's a linebacker now and there's 4 of 'em to pay and rotate. I really want them to work something out and for him to feel wanted and financially secure but I'm just not convinced he's "elite" as a LB.

Vegas_Bronco
06-15-2010, 06:30 PM
He's worked for peanuts thus far. I'd make all contracts incentive based with guarantees based on incentives - hee heee heee!

TheReverend
06-15-2010, 06:31 PM
So if he was a more complete player it would be easier to swallow. We need to start stopping the run, bottom line. My junk hurts from my fence riding on this topic because I love the guy in general, from a character and sacking potential perspective but he has a hard time getting off the block horizontally against the run. If he's a liability during run plays, I just have a hard time w/ so much guaranteed money. He's a linebacker now and there's 4 of 'em to pay and rotate. I really want them to work something out and for him to feel wanted and financially secure but I'm just not convinced he's "elite" as a LB.

That's not his job. We have 5 other people who's primary focus is stopping the run. His is getting after the passer, and occasionally hitting coverage and playing the run if he reads run.

Dedhed
06-15-2010, 06:38 PM
Pay him. He's our most productive player on either side of the ball, and he's done everything the right way both on and off the field. Including the way he's handled this off-season.

Marshall, Schef, and Cutler were examples of "me first" tools who were shown the door, and we should make Doom the poster boy for how a player can be rewarded for being a team player and a good guy off the field.

Get it done. I'd put a HUGE chunk on the books for next year so the rest of his contract is manageable if the cap comes back.

FireFly
06-15-2010, 06:43 PM
No. But we can't lose him. So we have to sign him.

I wouldn't want to commit going into a potential lock out though?

hambone13
06-15-2010, 06:46 PM
That's not his job. We have 5 other people who's primary focus is stopping the run. His is getting after the passer, and occasionally hitting coverage and playing the run if he reads run.

And he is elite at one of those things.

azbroncfan
06-15-2010, 06:50 PM
If anyone has acted right to deserve a big contract it would be Dumervil.

hambone13
06-15-2010, 06:53 PM
If anyone has acted right to deserve a big contract it would be Dumervil.

I completely agree. I have to remind himself he could have tried to renegotiate after his first couple of years based on his rookie contract.

Broncojef
06-15-2010, 06:54 PM
$65 mill over 10 years maybe.....no I wouldn't give him a $65 mill 6 year deal, just wouldn't do it.

GreatBronco16
06-15-2010, 07:08 PM
I voted no. Looking over his stats at http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?playerId=9712 he was only a real factor in just a couple of those games. His biggest being against the terrible Browns. I do remember him being held a lot, but what Dlineman or anyone rushing the QB isn't held?

He's invisible in the running game, and invisible in the passing game 'unless' he's rushing the QB.

Plus who's to say that teams just don't double up on him from here on out and let Ayers/Moss/whoever try to get in one on one? What happens when he gets this big payday, and his sack numbers go way down? Cause other than his sack numbers, he brings nothing else to the defense.

Just my opinion. I love the guy and want him to stay here, but I think most people just over value him.

WolfpackGuy
06-15-2010, 07:11 PM
Good lawd, no.

rmsanger
06-15-2010, 08:00 PM
I'd let him walk for that kind of change. We see how Champ's contract has hamstrung us over the years. No thanks!

s0phr0syne
06-15-2010, 08:00 PM
Instead of this whole $65 million phrasing, it'd be more accurate to say, "Does Doom deserve the going rate for a pass rusher of his caliber?"

I wonder how many of the "no" votes understand that there is a market that's setting this price. It's not just some number that was pulled out of thing air for how much Doom or his agent want. The actual amount is irrelevant as it's more or less just some monopoly money in the NFL-scheme of things. The salary cap will be spent no matter what, within $1-10 million of the available money.

TheReverend
06-15-2010, 08:01 PM
I'd let him walk for that kind of change. We see how Champ's contract has hamstrung us over the years. No thanks!

What?

Dr. Broncenstein
06-15-2010, 08:03 PM
I'd let him walk for that kind of change. We see how Champ's contract has hamstrung us over the years. No thanks!

http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/20849/original/Lolwut-verbose.jpg

FireFly
06-15-2010, 09:31 PM
it really depends on how the CBA pans out.

We need to give him a big contract. We can't afford to lose him just to save a buck, BUT as other have said $40 mil is a huge amount up front.

baja
06-15-2010, 09:34 PM
I'll guess 27 mill. guaranteed.

OBF1
06-15-2010, 09:47 PM
1. It's not the final number. It's a negotiation point.

2. It's also 3 years later. More money should be expected.

This is part of the reason for the possible lockout. The owners do not want to pay out 59% of the money any longer, hence the huge money will not be what is used to be.

60/40 is waaaaaay too much for a one dimentional player.

IHaveALight
06-15-2010, 10:04 PM
You guys are nuts. Pay him. I'm fine with dumping Cutler and Marshall. But we can not let Elvis get away period. 60/40 sounds high but that is the going rate. Marshall got something like that, whould you rather have given the money to him?
No, that's high risk. Doom is low risk, sign him for market value and be happy you have one of the top pass rushers in the league.

Lomax
06-15-2010, 10:15 PM
Instead of this whole $65 million phrasing, it'd be more accurate to say, "Does Doom deserve the going rate for a pass rusher of his caliber?"

I wonder how many of the "no" votes understand that there is a market that's setting this price. It's not just some number that was pulled out of thing air for how much Doom or his agent want. The actual amount is irrelevant as it's more or less just some monopoly money in the NFL-scheme of things. The salary cap will be spent no matter what, within $1-10 million of the available money.

TBH I'd like to see him do it over an entire season, without the help of a blitz, against more playoffs calibur teams. It was only until last season that he even went on anybody's radar, and his play faded down the stretch along with everyone else's. I don't think our D revolves around Elvis the way Indy's revolves around Freeney and Mathis.

baja
06-15-2010, 10:39 PM
TBH I'd like to see him do it over an entire season, without the help of a blitz, against more playoffs calibur teams. It was only until last season that he even went on anybody's radar, and his play faded down the stretch along with everyone else's. I don't think our D revolves around Elvis the way Indy's revolves around Freeney and Mathis.

This is my concern as well. 40 mil is a lot to commit on 10 or 12 great games at the position.

Paladin
06-15-2010, 10:58 PM
No. There are too many starving pygmies could better use the money.......

WABronco
06-15-2010, 11:04 PM
That's a pretty extremely massively large chunk of guaranteed money. I'd be interested in what his comparables are making, like James Harrison (5 years, 20 mil guaranteed) and stuff. Honestly that's elite superstar money.

Haynesworth set the record with $41 million......ya.

ScottXray
06-15-2010, 11:33 PM
65 million, yes.

40 mil guaranteed, no.

+ 1

HAT
06-15-2010, 11:42 PM
i'm fine with dumping cutler and marshall. .

o rly?

???

Durango
06-15-2010, 11:46 PM
The bottom line is he's not replaceable. Yes, I understand there are FA's out there somewhere and future draft gambles, but what are the odds? After Denver let Hayward and Berry go, what was done to replace their production beyond that endless trainwreck of washed up wannabe's culminating with Jarvis Moss from the draft.

Pay the man. Pay him now and consider ourselves lucky to have him.

Hogan11
06-16-2010, 12:03 AM
This is part of the reason for the possible lockout. The owners do not want to pay out 59% of the money any longer, hence the huge money will not be what is used to be.

60/40 is waaaaaay too much for a one dimentional player.

Exactly.

Only the "pay him's" would do such a deal

rbackfactory80
06-16-2010, 07:17 AM
I wouldn't do it. I would rather have a guy more solid in the run game who put up half his sacks.

jhns
06-16-2010, 07:29 AM
Of course he is worth it. If we don't give it to him, someone else will. Also, what kind of message are you sending to all of the other players if we aren't willing to reward the guy doing everything right while having great production?

gtown
06-16-2010, 08:39 AM
The guy is worth it, no question. Even if he is a bit one-dimensional, pass rushers come at a premium and are usually susceptible against the run anyway.

With the end of the CBA looming most teams are unwilling to throw big money at their RFAs, but I think a lack of movement now could sour Doom's perspective on Denver even if a new CBA is announced. Just put this to rest and get on with football.

TheChamp24
06-16-2010, 09:02 AM
I want to see how he performs this year honestly before putting it out there.
Right now, I'd say no. If he puts together another 12+ sack year with 3+ forced fumbles and does okay against the run, then I'd say yes, just not that much guaranteed.
However, we might not have the luxury of that and will have to probably overpay him for what he really does for us, similar in my mind to how we overpaid for DJ Williams for what he does for us.

Mediator12
06-16-2010, 09:48 AM
Here is the thing, that is an outrageous amount of gauranteed money and the WHOLE reason the CBA was blown up in the first place. The NFL is just not a gauranteed contract kind of league. However, Agents invest so much money in these guys they have to press the issue on their money making contracts. Their whole business model is being the agent of record on the big deals with enough of these guys making huge jack. The NFLPA benefits hugely from the over increasing contracts as well trying to take credit for the increases. The biggest problem is that the players want raises in the contracts while the whole economy is suffering. Costs are going up and players want MORE, even while everyone else is getting less.

To me its simple greed by both sides. The owners are tired of giving up over half their Revenues to the players and the players STILL want more than an equitable share and increasing contracts. Pure greed at our expense. Until Companies stop financing these terrible suites and luxury tickets this stuff will stay overpriced and out of the reach of most of the fans. Thank corporate excess for all this money being funneled to the teams and keeping so many of us out.

As for Dumervil, he deserves to get a top 5 DE/OLB contract period. However, 40 million gauranteed is absolutely ridiculous. 32 million at the most gauranteed would be a huge deal for his agent. 28 Million is much more likely and appropriate for this type of player.

TonyR
06-16-2010, 09:49 AM
TBH I'd like to see him do it over an entire season, without the help of a blitz, against more playoffs calibur teams. It was only until last season that he even went on anybody's radar, and his play faded down the stretch along with everyone else's. I don't think our D revolves around Elvis the way Indy's revolves around Freeney and Mathis.

I love Elvis and want him to stay but I have to agree with this and Great McBronco's post. Elvis was seemingly invisible in quite a few games last year, perhaps because opponents focused on him since the Broncos don't have a lot of other threats to neutralize. Hard to fault his overall production but I'd like to see him be a more consistent factor from week to week. $65 million players have to show up every game.

Durango
06-16-2010, 10:43 AM
I want Elvis taken care of, but I admit the 40 mil guaranteed demand, if true, is pretty ridiculous. Even so, the total worth of the contract may be about right in todays NFL reality. It's also true the average Joe just can't afford to attend any longer. I had to sell half our season ticket allotment just to keep a couple, and the strains on the budget are such that any serious increase may force me to sell my remaining two seats altogether even though I lose sleep just thinking about it.

The Broncos learned the hard way that you just can't replace these guys once you find them, but it's also true that the economics of the contract are just insanely out of whack from the perspective of the average wage earner. The money in pro sports is so out of touch with the fan bases that watch them that you have to wonder when the whole thing will just melt down, and by that I mean empty stadiums and/or collapsing concessions.

briane
06-16-2010, 01:59 PM
65 million, yes.

40 mil guaranteed, no.

I agree totally!

peacepipe
06-16-2010, 05:36 PM
If I were Dumervil I wouldn't sign any contract that didn't have 35-40 million garaunteed.

IHaveALight
06-16-2010, 08:48 PM
o rly?

???

Just because I was lobbying for Orton's release doesn't mean I'm a Cutler nut hugger.
I'm a McDaniel’s supporter and trading Cutler and Marshall were the right decisions IMO.
Obviously I was wrong about Brandstater, but I'm still hopeful that Quin or Tebow will beat out Orton.
I was however right that there wasn't enough reps to go around for 4 guys.

Elway 4 Life
06-17-2010, 08:39 AM
His production, skill set and impact equate insanely well with Dwight Freeney (same strengths, weaknesses, etc) and 3 years ago in 2007 Freeney signed a 72 million (30 guaranteed) for 6 years.

Dumervil at 65 and 40 is a good deal for both parties when you consider that players are being paid a good chunk more now than they were 3 years ago.

The fact that he's more durable than freeney also helps. I say pay him and watch him terrorize QB's for the next 5 years.

Garcia Bronco
06-17-2010, 08:54 AM
Hell no on the 65 mill....maybe 5 million per year including the prorated bonus.