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LonghornBronco
06-11-2010, 02:10 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_15278256?source=commented

Raft guide arrested after helping stranded rafter on Clear Creek
By Jason Blevins
The Denver Post
Posted: 06/11/2010 01:12:57 PM MDT
Updated: 06/11/2010 01:14:37 PM MDT


Clear Creek sheriff's deputies on Thursday arrested a rafting guide for swimming to a stranded young rafter who had tumbled from his boat on Clear Creek.

Ryan Daniel Snodgrass, a 28-year-old guide with Arkansas Valley Adventures rafting company, was charged with "obstructing government operations," said Clear Creek Sheriff Don Krueger.

"He was told not to go in the water, and he jumped in and swam over to the victim and jeopardized the rescue operation," said Krueger, noting that his office was deciding whether to file similar charges against another guide who was at the scene just downstream of Kermitts Roadhouse on U.S. 6.

Duke Bradford, owner of Arkansas Valley Adventures, said Snodgrass did the right thing by contacting the 13-year-old Texas girl immediately and not waiting for the county's search and rescue team to assemble ropes, rafts and rescuers.

"When you have someone in sight who has taken a long swim, you need to make contact immediately," said Bradford, a 15-year rafting guide and ski patroller from Summit County. "This is just silly. Ryan Snodgrass acted entirely appropriately. These guys came to the scene late and there was a rescue in progress. They came in and took over an existing rescue. To leave a patient on the side of a river while you get your gear out of the car and set up a rescue system you read about in a book is simply not good policy."

Snodgrass' raft flipped on the runoff-swelled Clear Creek around noon Thursday and the girl swam from the raft. Krueger said the girl was missing for 30 to 45 minutes while Snodgrass searched for her. He said she swam a half mile from the spot where the raft capsized.

Since it had been so long, Krueger said, it was no longer the rafting company's rescue.

"They should involve themselves up to a point. They lost contact. Whether they want to say they were trying to rescue their customer, when they had lost visual contact and had no idea where their customer has been for 30 to 45 minutes, then it becomes our issue."

Bradford said he would expect his guides to do the same thing again. His guides are professionals, he said, trained and certified in swiftwater rescue.

"To jump into water and navigate a river in a swiftwater rescue is common. You get into the river and swim. You have to do it," Branford said. "The fact these guys don't understand that is disturbing. Making contact immediately with your victim is essential. It's not about who is in charge. It's about the safety of a 13-year-old girl. You are doing to do everything in your power to insure the safety of your guest, and if that means in Idaho Springs you get arrested, well I guess we'll just get arrested."

gyldenlove
06-11-2010, 02:15 PM
This sounds like a sheriff trying to compensate for his lacking manhood.

crush17
06-11-2010, 02:17 PM
that's a crock of sh*t.

what a jerk.

Kaylore
06-11-2010, 02:18 PM
This will end that officer's career.

Vegas_Bronco
06-11-2010, 02:20 PM
Like the sheriff who arrested the fire chief...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKzojYvXn20

It's all about pride.

jhns
06-11-2010, 02:23 PM
This will end that officer's career.

Not likely. I bet the same thing happens to you if you go do the same thing right now. The reason they do this is they don't want others putting their own lives in danger. Yes, I get that guys life probably wasn't in danger. I'm not claiming they are smart, just that they have these policies and the officer was following what he was told to do in that situation.

tsiguy96
06-11-2010, 02:30 PM
BS government red tape, they arent capable of rescuing someone the quick and efficient way, the worker was and he did it. he should be awarded, and i assume in time he will be.

Jesterhole
06-11-2010, 02:38 PM
Wow, a cop a$$hole. Who knew?

Never met an officer that wasn't a complete tool.

Chris
06-11-2010, 02:42 PM
I shot the sheriff.

loborugger
06-11-2010, 02:58 PM
This will end that officer's career.

Doubtful

elsid13
06-11-2010, 04:11 PM
Extremely stupid move by the river guide. There is a reason that you follow rescue procedures and reads like he didn't have the equipment to ensure a proper rescue.

epicSocialism4tw
06-11-2010, 06:51 PM
BS government red tape, they arent capable of rescuing someone the quick and efficient way, the worker was and he did it. he should be awarded, and i assume in time he will be.

Bingo.

epicSocialism4tw
06-11-2010, 06:53 PM
Extremely stupid move by the river guide. There is a reason that you follow rescue procedures and reads like he didn't have the equipment to ensure a proper rescue.

Thats a stupid thing to say.

It sounds like he was well aware of the situation, and he made a decision to act according to what he had been taught.

Brave man. He deserves honor, not derision.

epicSocialism4tw
06-11-2010, 06:54 PM
Not likely. I bet the same thing happens to you if you go do the same thing right now. The reason they do this is they don't want others putting their own lives in danger. Yes, I get that guys life probably wasn't in danger. I'm not claiming they are smart, just that they have these policies and the officer was following what he was told to do in that situation.

Cops have leeway to work with. They use judgment, and it allows the bad ones to excercise their need for power.

DarkHorse30
06-12-2010, 12:10 AM
"When you have someone in sight who has taken a long swim, you need to make contact immediately," said Bradford, a 15-year rafting guide and ski patroller from Summit County. "This is just silly. Ryan Snodgrass acted entirely appropriately. These guys came to the scene late and there was a rescue in progress. They came in and took over an existing rescue. To leave a patient on the side of a river while you get your gear out of the car and set up a rescue system you read about in a book is simply not good policy."

Snodgrass' raft flipped on the runoff-swelled Clear Creek around noon Thursday and the girl swam from the raft. Krueger said the girl was missing for 30 to 45 minutes while Snodgrass searched for her. He said she swam a half mile from the spot where the raft capsized.

Since it had been so long, Krueger said, it was no longer the rafting company's rescue.

"They should involve themselves up to a point. They lost contact. Whether they want to say they were trying to rescue their customer, (what?) when they had lost visual contact and had no idea where their customer has been for 30 to 45 minutes, then it becomes our issue." (oh, so they can get busy organizing themselves while the girl drowns. What a dumb****)

Bradford said he would expect his guides to do the same thing again. His guides are professionals, he said, trained and certified in swiftwater rescue.

"To jump into water and navigate a river in a swiftwater rescue is common. You get into the river and swim. You have to do it," Branford said. "The fact these guys don't understand that is disturbing. Making contact immediately with your victim is essential. It's not about who is in charge. It's about the safety of a 13-year-old girl. You are doing to do everything in your power to insure the safety of your guest, and if that means in Idaho Springs you get arrested, well I guess we'll just get arrested."

I bet the sheriff said something stupid at the scene and the Bradford guy probably called him on it. So what is a sheriff going to do? CYA with a ridiculous charge that makes him look like a dunce. Brilliant.

FTR, I've seen firsthand a group of cops being lazy and stupid when they did a half-assed investigation of a crime. I had to go AROUND them to get a DA to actually investigate, and charges were brought.....with zero help from the PD. They have their protocol and their stereotypes and their rules but like anybody else, they fail at times to do their jobs. This charge that the sheriff brought is ludicrous and makes him look like a complete idiot.

elsid13
06-12-2010, 03:25 AM
Thats a stupid thing to say.

It sounds like he was well aware of the situation, and he made a decision to act according to what he had been taught.

Brave man. He deserves honor, not derision.

It reads like the team showed up on sight, and he played hero instead of waiting for the equipment to be set-up. How do you think the rescue team going to responded when they arrive on site and see a guy jumping into the water. They no idea if he trained or not, they have to figure that two potential victims in the water now.

When you have the support is available you don't attempt something by yourself. So instead of waiting those extra minutes to ensure that ropes were in place to protect the victim, he failed to follow basic rescue procedure and now whine about it. He wasn't brave he was stupid and lucky.

RMT
06-12-2010, 04:12 AM
cops are supposed to be "jacks of all trades, master of few" - i'd put more trust in a raft guide doing a water rescue than some cops.

BroncsRule
06-12-2010, 05:07 AM
He wasn't brave he was stupid and lucky.

..the very definition of bravery

Miss I.
06-12-2010, 06:00 AM
Follow this helpful instructional video and you will be just fine...;D

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MHF8ciSwSrk&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MHF8ciSwSrk&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Garcia Bronco
06-12-2010, 06:18 AM
Not likely. I bet the same thing happens to you if you go do the same thing right now. The reason they do this is they don't want others putting their own lives in danger. Yes, I get that guys life probably wasn't in danger. I'm not claiming they are smart, just that they have these policies and the officer was following what he was told to do in that situation.


Not exactly. The guide is under no obligation to obey those people.

Garcia Bronco
06-12-2010, 06:22 AM
Extremely stupid move by the river guide. There is a reason that you follow rescue procedures and reads like he didn't have the equipment to ensure a proper rescue.

Not if you actually read the article. This is nothing short of officers trying protect their ego and collect their cash.

broncswin
06-12-2010, 07:37 AM
Great job by the guide...some people just have to argue with what is right, no matter how dumb they sound...see a couple posters above...if that was their family member out there and they died because procedures were followed, they would be singing a different tune. It is as simple as that...dont be a dumba$$!

Tombstone RJ
06-12-2010, 07:47 AM
It's all fun and games until someone dies...

TheReverend
06-12-2010, 09:03 AM
It's all about pride.

^

gunns
06-12-2010, 09:12 AM
Props to the guide for thinking of that woman first. He is truly a hero. Funny thing is we can rarely say that about our police anymore.

elsid13
06-12-2010, 09:29 AM
Great job by the guide...some people just have to argue with what is right, no matter how dumb they sound...see a couple posters above...if that was their family member out there and they died because procedures were followed, they would be singing a different tune. It is as simple as that...dont be a dumba$$!

OR you would be pissed because river guide got your kid killed, because he didn't follow training or wait the extra minutes for the gear that was ready to go to be set up. The first rule they teach you in SAR environment IS NEVER attempt a river rescue by yourself, because there is very good chance you will also become a victim. And second thing they teach you before anyone enters the water, attempt to rescue the victim for the shore first. Both rules the guide broke. The reason protocols like this are used because reduce risk to both the victim and rescuers and are proven to work. He and the kid got lucky.

gunns
06-12-2010, 10:26 AM
OR you would be pissed because river guide got your kid killed, because he didn't follow training or wait the extra minutes for the gear that was ready to go to be set up. The first rule they teach you in SAR environment IS NEVER attempt a river rescue by yourself, because there is very good chance you will also become a victim. And second thing they teach you before anyone enters the water, attempt to rescue the victim for the shore first. Both rules the guide broke. The reason protocols like this are used because reduce risk to both the victim and rescuers and are proven to work. He and the kid got lucky.

The point is the kid thought of no one but that victim and he did in fact save her. The sheriff could have said we commend this kid but do not recommend you do this, then state the above. Arrest him? That's where the cop exposed his own ego....and idiocy.

broncocalijohn
06-12-2010, 11:36 AM
Not likely. I bet the same thing happens to you if you go do the same thing right now. The reason they do this is they don't want others putting their own lives in danger. Yes, I get that guys life probably wasn't in danger. I'm not claiming they are smart, just that they have these policies and the officer was following what he was told to do in that situation.

Probably same policy that the federal government has on cleaning up the Gulf oil spill in a timely matter. Sometimes, you just cant wait for the government to save your ass. Personal responsibility needs to take over.

UberBroncoMan
06-12-2010, 01:26 PM
Doubtful

Yeah... arresting the Fire Captain on the other hand...

elsid13
06-12-2010, 01:54 PM
The point is the kid thought of no one but that victim and he did in fact save her. The sheriff could have said we commend this kid but do not recommend you do this, then state the above. Arrest him? That's where the cop exposed his own ego....and idiocy.

The problem is that the guide didn't think, which is a problem. Arresting might have been over the edge, but we shouldn't be praising him for being stupid. He got lucky and that isn't something you should depend on.

broncswin
06-12-2010, 03:01 PM
The problem is that the guide didn't think, which is a problem. Arresting might have been over the edge, but we shouldn't be praising him for being stupid. He got lucky and that isn't something you should depend on.

Like I said, some people just want to argue with what was right...very heroic by this man and I praise him for having the brass to do it...LOL at your take on this

elsid13
06-12-2010, 03:06 PM
Like I said, some people just want to argue with what was right...very heroic by this man and I praise him for having the brass to do it...LOL at your take on this

My take on this, is because I understand SAR operations, unlike some here.

huh??
06-12-2010, 03:17 PM
OR you would be pissed because river guide got your kid killed, because he didn't follow training or wait the extra minutes for the gear that was ready to go to be set up. The first rule they teach you in SAR environment IS NEVER attempt a river rescue by yourself, because there is very good chance you will also become a victim. And second thing they teach you before anyone enters the water, attempt to rescue the victim for the shore first. Both rules the guide broke. The reason protocols like this are used because reduce risk to both the victim and rescuers and are proven to work. He and the kid got lucky.

EXACTLY. Plus, the guide jumped in after being told by a law enforcement agency to stay out of the water. If you go ahead and do something that a cop told you not to do, you should pretty much expect to be arrested regardless of your reason. When a governmental public safety agency (city, county, state, federal) is involved in an operation of any type, there will be specific procedures and protocol that must be followed. To the layperson, it will appear to be a lengthy waste of time or something unnecessary, but each job or task must be clearly defined and organized. If procedure isn't followed, and something adverse happens, there will be lawyers asking why certain safeguards weren't in place to reduce the overall risk for everyone involved. Like others have said, the guide was lucky he didn't become a second victim. Even with a lot of training, you still can't control nature. Every year, people die doing things they were specifically trained for.

oubronco
06-12-2010, 03:22 PM
This is just BS the man saved the girl while the search and rescue had their thumbs up their asses period

Tombstone RJ
06-12-2010, 05:28 PM
Anybody who has taken any kind of water safety/life guard position knows the basic rules which the guide did break. Rule one, do not attempt a water rescue IF there are shore proceedures that can save the victom. Broken. Two, never attempt a water rescue alone because there's a very, very good chance you're just gonna make the problem worse.

Hell, I know this crap from jr. high life guard lessons.

Yah, the guide appears selfless but fact of the matter he was careless. Sheriff has a ligt beef with this guide. The good news is the girl is safe, and the guide is safe too. If I was the sheriff I'd just let it go but he (the Sheriff) is probably trying to keep others safe by enforcing rescue protocol. After all, he's gonna get blamed if people die.

JMHO.

Boobs McGee
06-12-2010, 07:07 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_15278256?source=commented

Raft guide arrested after helping stranded rafter on Clear Creek
By Jason Blevins
The Denver Post
Posted: 06/11/2010 01:12:57 PM MDT
Updated: 06/11/2010 01:14:37 PM MDT


Clear Creek sheriff's deputies on Thursday arrested a rafting guide for swimming to a stranded young rafter who had tumbled from his boat on Clear Creek.

Ryan Daniel Snodgrass, a 28-year-old guide with Arkansas Valley Adventures rafting company, was charged with "obstructing government operations," said Clear Creek Sheriff Don Krueger.

"He was told not to go in the water, and he jumped in and swam over to the victim and jeopardized the rescue operation," said Krueger, noting that his office was deciding whether to file similar charges against another guide who was at the scene just downstream of Kermitts Roadhouse on U.S. 6.

Duke Bradford, owner of Arkansas Valley Adventures, said Snodgrass did the right thing by contacting the 13-year-old Texas girl immediately and not waiting for the county's search and rescue team to assemble ropes, rafts and rescuers.

"When you have someone in sight who has taken a long swim, you need to make contact immediately," said Bradford, a 15-year rafting guide and ski patroller from Summit County. "This is just silly. Ryan Snodgrass acted entirely appropriately. These guys came to the scene late and there was a rescue in progress. They came in and took over an existing rescue. To leave a patient on the side of a river while you get your gear out of the car and set up a rescue system you read about in a book is simply not good policy."
Snodgrass' raft flipped on the runoff-swelled Clear Creek around noon Thursday and the girl swam from the raft. Krueger said the girl was missing for 30 to 45 minutes while Snodgrass searched for her. He said she swam a half mile from the spot where the raft capsized.

Since it had been so long, Krueger said, it was no longer the rafting company's rescue.

"They should involve themselves up to a point. They lost contact. Whether they want to say they were trying to rescue their customer, when they had lost visual contact and had no idea where their customer has been for 30 to 45 minutes, then it becomes our issue."

Bradford said he would expect his guides to do the same thing again. His guides are professionals, he said, trained and certified in swiftwater rescue.

"To jump into water and navigate a river in a swiftwater rescue is common. You get into the river and swim. You have to do it," Branford said. "The fact these guys don't understand that is disturbing. Making contact immediately with your victim is essential. It's not about who is in charge. It's about the safety of a 13-year-old girl. You are doing to do everything in your power to insure the safety of your guest, and if that means in Idaho Springs you get arrested, well I guess we'll just get arrested."



For the people arguing that this guide did the wrong thing...do any of you have 15 years of whitewater experience? I'm honestly asking. Bradford, who for all intents and purposes IS a certified rescuer (and I'm ASSUMING is currently up to date on all swiftwater rescue guidelines) seems to think that in this particular situation, his guide did the right thing.

Unless any of you can top this man's certification records, it sounds to me like he was in the right here.

broncswin
06-12-2010, 07:55 PM
Here is the deal...you think this guide doesn't know the water he is jumping in, your crazy...he knows it way better than the so called "pros"...I wouldn't question his ability to save people...luck has nothing to do with it. This "HERO" is on this water everyday for around 5 months a year. The "pro" is not really familiar with it at all, but hey whatever right!?

Tombstone RJ
06-12-2010, 08:04 PM
For the people arguing that this guide did the wrong thing...do any of you have 15 years of whitewater experience? I'm honestly asking. Bradford, who for all intents and purposes IS a certified rescuer (and I'm ASSUMING is currently up to date on all swiftwater rescue guidelines) seems to think that in this particular situation, his guide did the right thing.

Unless any of you can top this man's certification records, it sounds to me like he was in the right here.

He has to say his guide did the right thing, it's his companies reputation on the line. Of course he's gonna back the guide up.