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Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 12:12 PM
As part of my never ending struggle to "get off the grid" my next goal is to get off the corporate produced food grid. That means organic farming, for one thing. I know a bit about that and am already working on it. What I don't know about, but want to get into, is keeping chickens and a cow. As a side, I also plan on getting into cheesemaking. ("Blessed are the cheesemakers.") Beekeeping will also be somewhere down the road (something I've always wanted to do). From what I've read, the Jersey seems to be the cow I want. Among the chickens, I'm leaning toward Rhode Island Reds and Wyandottes. Any experts out there on the OM? Advice?

Popps
06-11-2010, 12:14 PM
Funny, I was just looking into where to buy local, organic honey today. Found a place out in Ventura. Supposed to be great for seasonal allergies.

That said, I won't be raising any cattle here in LA any time soon.

baja
06-11-2010, 12:15 PM
I have so much info on this subject I would not know where to start

look into permaculture for starters.

Popps
06-11-2010, 12:17 PM
(Obligatory internet insult below)

What a couple of ****ing hippies you guys are. Why don't you create a commune together and burn your bras.

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 12:20 PM
I have so much info on this subject I would not know where to start

look into permaculture for starters.

I've read a bit about that. I believe we are trending in that direction. People are really getting fed up with the entire "mass produce everything" culture we have built for ourselves. I want quality over quantity. I want a plum that tastes like a plum, even if it's smaller, not some enormous, water filled plum flavored genetically designed freak.

What did Joni Mitchell sing? "Got to get back to the land and set my soul free."

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 12:21 PM
(Obligatory internet insult below)

What a couple of ****ing hippies you guys are. Why don't you create a commune together and burn your bras.

Yep. I'm letting my freak flag fly. ;D

Archer81
06-11-2010, 12:23 PM
Oh good gravy...


:Broncos:

baja
06-11-2010, 12:24 PM
I've read a bit about that. I believe we are trending in that direction. People are really getting fed up with the entire "mass produce everything" culture we have built for ourselves. I want quality over quantity. I want a plum that tastes like a plum, even if it's smaller, not some enormous, water filled plum flavored genetically designed freak.

What did Joni Mitchell sing? "Got to get back to the land and set my soul free."

Seriously Permaculture is the framework to build you entire off the grid on. Here is is a great intro;

http://fthats.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/permaculture_designers_manu.jpg

Mr.Meanie
06-11-2010, 12:25 PM
Or you could just buy Organic, without having to retreat into the 19th century...

Popps
06-11-2010, 12:25 PM
Yep. I'm letting my freak flag fly. ;D

It's all good, man. I just had a medical "incident" due to a prescription drug reaction that ****ed me up something fierce for a couple of weeks. So, I'm so down with alternative means of health promotion, you just have no idea.

With all due respect to my friend Doc Broc., your average doctor couldn't find their ass with both hands, and the candy-drug, big phrma bull**** is just out of control. But, that's for another thread.

Not sure how serious you are about it, but I expect a lot of the Coloradans will have some good input here for you. Meck77 is a man of the earth. Maybe he'll chime in.

baja
06-11-2010, 12:26 PM
Buy local organic and in season fresh food.

tsiguy96
06-11-2010, 12:26 PM
Or you could just buy Organic, without having to retreat into the 19th century...

:peace:

bronclvr
06-11-2010, 12:30 PM
Ro,

I am not a good guy to tell you about Chickens, but I know a bit about Cows and Agriculture (its part of what I do)-tell me more about your set-up-do you have pasture? If so, how much? Do you have the capability of producing Hay? How many acres, and do you have the Equipment to do so? Where are you located? Many more questions can be asked-

Archer81
06-11-2010, 12:31 PM
If the entire world just did organic farming...3 billion people would starve.


:Broncos:

baja
06-11-2010, 12:32 PM
It's all good, man. I just had a medical "incident" due to a prescription drug reaction that ****ed me up something fierce for a couple of weeks. So, I'm so down with alternative means of health promotion, you just have no idea.

With all due respect to my friend Doc Broc., your average doctor couldn't find their ass with both hands, and the candy-drug, big phrma bull**** is just out of control. But, that's for another thread.

Not sure how serious you are about it, but I expect a lot of the Coloradans will have some good input here for you. Meck77 is a man of the earth. Maybe he'll chime in.

Here is a great site on the horrors of big pharm.


http://www.naturalnews.com/

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 12:33 PM
Or you could just buy Organic, without having to retreat into the 19th century...

I was doing that until I read up on Horizon Milk at Cornucopia. (http://www.cornucopia.org/2008/01/dairy-report-and-scorecard/) Most organics are now owned by the same food giants that offer you Kraft Macaroni and Cheese and Hot Pockets. Even Organic Silk, the soy milk, is no longer produced by White Wave, although their name is still on the box. It's owned by a giant corporation that bought the White Wave name. The entire organic movement has been coopted by big industry who, under almost meaningless USDA regulations, can simply market the same crap for much higher profit.

bronco militia
06-11-2010, 12:34 PM
Funny, I was just looking into where to buy local, organic honey today. Found a place out in Ventura.

.

that'a my home town...I miss driving down to Oxnard and buying strawberries

gyldenlove
06-11-2010, 12:37 PM
If the entire world just did organic farming...3 billion people would starve.


:Broncos:

Well as long as about half of them are from Texas it won't really have any detrimental effects on overall world health, lets be honest, the good people of Texas could do with a bit of starvation....

gyldenlove
06-11-2010, 12:39 PM
Organic cheese is the shizznit, there is a small organic private dairy plant not far from where I grew up, their cheese is delicious.

What kind of cheese do you want to do?

bronclvr
06-11-2010, 12:40 PM
I was doing that until I read up on Horizon Milk at Cornucopia. (http://www.cornucopia.org/2008/01/dairy-report-and-scorecard/) Most organics are now owned by the same food giants that offer you Kraft Macaroni and Cheese and Hot Pockets. Even Organic Silk, the soy milk, is no longer produced by White Wave, although their name is still on the box. It's owned by a giant corporation that bought the White Wave name. The entire organic movement has been coopted by big industry who, under almost meaningless USDA regulations, can simply market the same crap for much higher profit.


No surprise there, however (unless you are a conspiracy theorist) there are regulations and standards that productrs that are labeled Organic must adhere to-

Did you know that it is illiegal for a large Corporation to own a Farm in Nebraska? they get around it by paying large Farmers to buy and Farm it-

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 12:42 PM
Ro,

I am not a good guy to tell you about Chickens, but I know a bit about Cows and Agriculture (its part of what I do)-tell me more about your set-up-do you have pasture? If so, how much? Do you have the capability of producing Hay? How many acres, and do you have the Equipment to do so? Where are you located? Many more questions can be asked-

I'm not set up yet. It's our next move, to sell out the suburban digs and buy land. Get out of the city. I don't want to go commercial with it, just run an outfit that takes care of the family and maybe a bit on the side. Is it feasible for a family to have a Jersey cow or two and do this? I'm assuming we'll be looking somewhere in California so I don't know if winter hay is a necessity as the forage would be available year round out there.

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 12:44 PM
Organic cheese is the shizznit, there is a small organic private dairy plant not far from where I grew up, their cheese is delicious.

What kind of cheese do you want to do?

From my reading on the subject so far, you can pretty much do anything you like. Like anything, you have to start with the best ingredients. From what I've read so far, Jerseys make the richest milk, so I figure that's a good start.

baja
06-11-2010, 12:44 PM
I'm not set up yet. It's our next move, to sell out the suburban digs and buy land. Get out of the city. I don't want to go commercial with it, just run an outfit that takes care of the family and maybe a bit on the side. Is it feasible for a family to have a Jersey cow or two and do this? I'm assuming we'll be looking somewhere in California so I don't know if winter hay is a necessity as the forage would be available year round out there.

You might want to reconsider the cow thing

http://www.notmilk.com/

baja
06-11-2010, 12:45 PM
goats are a better option

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 12:46 PM
goats are a better option

Not if you love cheddar. ;D

baja
06-11-2010, 12:48 PM
Not if you love cheddar. ;D

check out the not milk site i linked before you make any final decisions.

http://www.notmilk.com/

Archer81
06-11-2010, 12:49 PM
Soy milk is not milk.

So why is it called milk? Does it have tits?

:Broncos:

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 12:49 PM
You might want to reconsider the cow thing

http://www.notmilk.com/

I'm not thinking about becoming part of the commercial dairy industry. And part of why I want to produce my own is because I no longer trust the corporate food infrastructure to offer trustworthy products. The idea that cow's milk is inherently bad, IMHO, is extremist.

broncosteven
06-11-2010, 12:52 PM
I'm not set up yet. It's our next move, to sell out the suburban digs and buy land. Get out of the city. I don't want to go commercial with it, just run an outfit that takes care of the family and maybe a bit on the side. Is it feasible for a family to have a Jersey cow or two and do this? I'm assuming we'll be looking somewhere in California so I don't know if winter hay is a necessity as the forage would be available year round out there.

I hope your a morning person.

My aunt had pigs and chickens and a cow until they got tired of milking it.

If it were me I would start out with a chicken shack and see how that works out before jumping into other livestock.

My grandma raised rabbits for years because they were easy and reproduced fast but she never made them for us because we wouldn't eat them. She had chickens and rabbits.

Anyway my weight lifting buddy says milk is not as good for you as one thinks. something about the body not breaking it down right or something. I only have it in my cereal anyway.

baja
06-11-2010, 12:53 PM
I'm not thinking about becoming part of the commercial dairy industry. And part of why I want to produce my own is because I no longer trust the corporate food infrastructure to offer trustworthy products. The idea that cow's milk is inherently bad, IMHO, is extremist.

I understand that Ro. Cow's milk was not designed to be consumed by humans It is very hard for the human digestive system to process. That site is huge with many articles on the harmful effects of even good quality cows milk

Hemp milk is a far better option.

TailgateNut
06-11-2010, 12:53 PM
(Obligatory internet insult below)

What a couple of ****ing hippies you guys are. Why don't you create a commune together and burn your bras.

Hey, hey hey hey hey! Don't knock it. My organic veggie garden is LOOKING GOOD and I'm starting on building a chicken coop next weekend. I figure it will accomplish four things: 1. more organic compost, eggs, and pissin off my dog and my neighbors!;D

baja
06-11-2010, 12:55 PM
Hey, hey hey hey hey! Don't knock it. My organic veggie garden is LOOKING GOOD and I'm starting on building a chicken coop next weekend. I figure it will accomplish four things: 1. more organic compost, eggs, and pissin off my dog and my neighbors!;D


I can get you a very vocal mexican rooster.

bronclvr
06-11-2010, 12:57 PM
I'm not set up yet. It's our next move, to sell out the suburban digs and buy land. Get out of the city. I don't want to go commercial with it, just run an outfit that takes care of the family and maybe a bit on the side. Is it feasible for a family to have a Jersey cow or two and do this? I'm assuming we'll be looking somewhere in California so I don't know if winter hay is a necessity as the forage would be available year round out there.

Sure, you can do it, I have many friends who do. Depending on where you go, you can get a Permit to graze Federal Land. The reasons I was asking does have to do with the cow Breed-Jerseys are o.k., they have hard feet (which is good-sturdy), but I wouldn't throw out a Holstein or Shorthorn, as they are good for Dairy because of their protein-to-fat ratio. For Cheese I also wouldn't thorw out a Brown Swiss-there are a lot of factors to weigh before you make a decision-

Remember, Hay Prices can fluctuate wildly, and California would be the least desireable to me (look at the water issues)-look at all of the Dairy Farms that have left there-

Archer81
06-11-2010, 12:58 PM
I understand that Ro. Cow's milk was not designed to be consumed by humans It is very hard for the human digestive system to process. That site is huge with many articles on the harmful effects of even good quality cows milk

Hemp milk is a far better option.


Milk is produced by mammals for their young. Anything fluid processed from a plant is technically a juice.

:Broncos:

tsiguy96
06-11-2010, 12:59 PM
Hey, hey hey hey hey! Don't knock it. My organic veggie garden is LOOKING GOOD and I'm starting on building a chicken coop next weekend. I figure it will accomplish four things: 1. more organic compost, eggs, and pissin off my dog and my neighbors!;D

you gonna kill em yourself or send em to a butcher and come back with some nice chicken legs?

baja
06-11-2010, 01:01 PM
Milk is produced by mammals for their young. Anything fluid processed from a plant is technically a juice.

:Broncos:

Fine it is a great milk substitute no matter what you call it.

TailgateNut
06-11-2010, 01:02 PM
I can get you a very vocal mexican rooster.

I don't need to add to the number of "mexicans" in Colorado.
I want an American rooster. One that crows "Good Morning MFer's" not one that crows "Hola".:thanku:

Archer81
06-11-2010, 01:03 PM
Fine it is a great milk substitute no matter what you call it.


Im lactose intolerant, so milk or things called milk I dont touch. Just found it funny that something derived from plants can be called milk when a plant has no capability of making liquified fat because it has no fat.

:Broncos:

baja
06-11-2010, 01:04 PM
Funny you should say that. Mexican roosters do crow differently that the American counter part.

TailgateNut
06-11-2010, 01:06 PM
you gonna kill em yourself or send em to a butcher and come back with some nice chicken legs?

Not opposed to killin', but generally layin hens are only good for soup and laying eggs.

I spent many summers on my grandfathers farm. He had chickens, ducks, geese, rabbits, pigs and cows.

The other "positive" outcome of gardening/farming/ranch work is that it relieves stress (IMO).

baja
06-11-2010, 01:06 PM
Im lactose intolerant, so milk or things called milk I dont touch. Just found it funny that something derived from plants can be called milk when a plant has no capability of making liquified fat because it has no fat.

:Broncos:

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c200_B0003s1m110701000K060105050000020K00Hempqq0 Milkqq0qq8Hempqq0Blissqq0originalqq0flavorqq9.html

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 01:09 PM
I understand that Ro. Cow's milk was not designed to be consumed by humans It is very hard for the human digestive system to process. That site is huge with many articles on the harmful effects of even good quality cows milk

Hemp milk is a far better option.

Years ago, I lived in an ashram. I'll never forget one of the guys in that house. He had pared down all the evils of eating from "this world" to such a degree that the only thing left for him were local, organic vegetables - raw. Every evening, there he would be, munching on a giant bowl full of zucchini, broccoli, and what not. Sometimes, he squeezed a little miso or tahini on it. He was pale as a ghost and looked like Ichabod Crane. The guy was nearly translucent. He also used to wear these big earphones so the pollution of the world would not be able to invade his consciousness.

I have decided to enjoy life. I no longer smoke, and only occasionally have a bit of wine. My drive to do this has more to do with quality than anything else. I want really good food and it's getting harder and harder to find. So, I think I'll enjoy homemade milk and cheese, and eggs, maybe even bacon every once in awhile. Hell, the people of Russian Georgia eat nothing but pork fat, milk, yogurt, cheese and beef and they live much longer than the people of South India, who are almost entirely vegetarian. Within, perhaps one can find perfection. Outside? Never. It's just part of the setup. So, be happy.

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 01:10 PM
Im lactose intolerant, so milk or things called milk I dont touch. Just found it funny that something derived from plants can be called milk when a plant has no capability of making liquified fat because it has no fat.

:Broncos:

It's hard to milk a soy bean. Where's the teat? Anyway, now they're coming out with studies that soy isn't so good for you either. Something about messing with your estrogen levels.

gyldenlove
06-11-2010, 01:12 PM
Im lactose intolerant, so milk or things called milk I dont touch. Just found it funny that something derived from plants can be called milk when a plant has no capability of making liquified fat because it has no fat.

:Broncos:

A lot of fat is plant derived, sun flower oil, rape seed oil, olive oil, walnut oil, peanut butter, omega-3 in fish is mostly seaweed derived.

baja
06-11-2010, 01:12 PM
I had farm fresh eggs and local ground beef and local organic beans with some local organic cherry tomatoes for breakfast today.

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 01:14 PM
Sure, you can do it, I have many friends who do. Depending on where you go, you can get a Permit to graze Federal Land. The reasons I was asking does have to do with the cow Breed-Jerseys are o.k., they have hard feet (which is good-sturdy), but I wouldn't throw out a Holstein or Shorthorn, as they are good for Dairy because of their protein-to-fat ratio. For Cheese I also wouldn't thorw out a Brown Swiss-there are a lot of factors to weigh before you make a decision-

Remember, Hay Prices can fluctuate wildly, and California would be the least desireable to me (look at the water issues)-look at all of the Dairy Farms that have left there-

Yeah, I doubt that California would be the place to set up a commercial operation. Part of California's problem is that they have practiced very wasteful water use for a long time and it's become a bad habit. They've got to change their ways. There's a dry farming group gaining some traction out there, from what I've read. The worst part of Cal is the taxes. Tough to run an ag-business on a tight budget when the land taxes are killing you.

Pontius Pirate
06-11-2010, 01:20 PM
Thank god this is not a Farmville thread.

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 01:21 PM
Not opposed to killin', but generally layin hens are only good for soup and laying eggs.

I spent many summers on my grandfathers farm. He had chickens, ducks, geese, rabbits, pigs and cows.

The other "positive" outcome of gardening/farming/ranch work is that it relieves stress (IMO).

That's the real issue right there. I want to get back to the land. Get in touch with the natural world again. My wife had questions about whacking chickens. I just told her somebody whacked that chicken in your soup, and I bet I'd be a whole lot more humane about it than they were.

Archer81
06-11-2010, 01:23 PM
A lot of fat is plant derived, sun flower oil, rape seed oil, olive oil, walnut oil, peanut butter, omega-3 in fish is mostly seaweed derived.


Gross.


:Broncos:

TailgateNut
06-11-2010, 01:29 PM
That's the real issue right there. I want to get back to the land. Get in touch with the natural world again. My wife had questions about whacking chickens. I just told her somebody whacked that chicken in your soup, and I bet I'd be a whole lot more humane about it than they were.

The "wacking" isn't the hard thing, it's the stench from pulling the feathers after dipping them in hot water.

I'd set up to raise rabbits, but I'm the only one who would eat them. They are so simple to raise and reproduce like "rabbits".;D

STBumpkin
06-11-2010, 01:29 PM
I was raised on a ranch near Montrose and we had a Brown Swiss milk cow. Brown Swiss, Jersey, Gernsey, and Milking Shorthorn are all much better than a Holstein (black and white splotched). The only reason holsteins are used almost exclusively by dairies is they produce more, but not as rich/tasty. As well as the ranch, I did 4-H for years. Never had chickens, but everything else I've had (sheep, pigs, goats, cattle, rabbits, even a llama). I'll try to answer any specific questions you have.

baja
06-11-2010, 01:30 PM
http://www.notmilk.com/graphics/angelinaxl.jpg




http://www.notmilk.com/kradjian.html

Beantown Bronco
06-11-2010, 01:39 PM
The "wacking" isn't the hard thing, it's the stench from pulling the feathers after dipping them in hot water.

I'd set up to raise rabbits, but I'm the only one who would eat them. They are so simple to raise and reproduce like "rabbits".;D

I loooooove rabbit meat. I ate it all the time when I lived in Spain.

baja
06-11-2010, 01:45 PM
I loooooove rabbit meat. I ate it all the time when I lived in Spain.

So they told you it was rabbit huh. Meow.

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 01:54 PM
The "wacking" isn't the hard thing, it's the stench from pulling the feathers after dipping them in hot water.

I'd set up to raise rabbits, but I'm the only one who would eat them. They are so simple to raise and reproduce like "rabbits".;D

I've only had rabbit once. Seemed okay. Tasted like chicken. ;D

Had dog once in Korea.

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 01:56 PM
I was raised on a ranch near Montrose and we had a Brown Swiss milk cow. Brown Swiss, Jersey, Gernsey, and Milking Shorthorn are all much better than a Holstein (black and white splotched). The only reason holsteins are used almost exclusively by dairies is they produce more, but not as rich/tasty. As well as the ranch, I did 4-H for years. Never had chickens, but everything else I've had (sheep, pigs, goats, cattle, rabbits, even a llama). I'll try to answer any specific questions you have.

One of my first questions is, does the milk change flavors depending on what the cows are eating? Say, if they are eating grass as opposed to clover or hay? Goats are another idea. My sister had a couple of goats years ago.

STBumpkin
06-11-2010, 01:58 PM
Rabbit is great! Wild (cottontail) is easier to skin but smaller and a bit gamey (not bad gamey, just more flavor) while domestic is much bigger and fatter. I love fried, barbecued or stew.

TailgateNut
06-11-2010, 02:01 PM
I loooooove rabbit meat. I ate it all the time when I lived in Spain.

I used to eat rabbit quite often when I lived in Germany. Those field rabbits are huge.

houghtam
06-11-2010, 02:02 PM
Or you could just buy Organic, without having to retreat into the 19th century...

Unfortunately, that's the mentality that got us into the mess we're in in the first place. People wanting to take the easy way out and let someone else do the dirty work for them. Not that I'm not guilty of it, too.

TailgateNut
06-11-2010, 02:03 PM
I've only had rabbit once. Seemed okay. Tasted like chicken. ;D

Had dog once in Korea.

No, on the "tastes like chicken", and I also had dog once in Korea.

Kai-Go-Gi sound familiar?

STBumpkin
06-11-2010, 02:03 PM
One of my first questions is, does the milk change flavors depending on what the cows are eating? Say, if they are eating grass as opposed to clover or hay? Goats are another idea. My sister had a couple of goats years ago.

Taste difference between grass, clover, hay, or grain fed isn't much. Color changes a bit (slightly yellow for grass or clover fed, whiter for grain and hay). Fresh clover (alfalfa is a type of clover as well. It's made into hay) can be too rich for cows to eat a lot of. You wouldn't want them to be in a field of alfalfa or yellow sweet clover, grass is best. The kind of clover that grows as a weed in your lawn is fine to eat a lot of.

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 02:08 PM
No, on the "tastes like chicken", and I also had dog once in Korea.

Kai-Go-Gi sound familiar?

jk on the chicken. Yeah. We went to a restaurant right when I got to Korea and the guys told me to order it. When I got about half way through it they said, "So, you like filet o fido?"

broncswin
06-11-2010, 02:08 PM
One of my first questions is, does the milk change flavors depending on what the cows are eating? Say, if they are eating grass as opposed to clover or hay? Goats are another idea. My sister had a couple of goats years ago.

Yes it does change the taste...we farm in southeast colorado and our main crop is Alfalfa...we do big bales(1 ton) and the dairies will only buy highly rated hay...it goes through probe testing to determine the nutrients in it...they will not feed the cows hay with bloom...weeds...or if it had to much rain on it while in the windrow. There is no way in Hell I would do what you are planning on...but good luck to you and if you have anymore questions on crop farming let me know

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 02:10 PM
Taste difference between grass, clover, hay, or grain fed isn't much. Color changes a bit (slightly yellow for grass or clover fed, whiter for grain and hay). Fresh clover (alfalfa is a type of clover as well. It's made into hay) can be too rich for cows to eat a lot of. You wouldn't want them to be in a field of alfalfa or yellow sweet clover, grass is best. The kind of clover that grows as a weed in your lawn is fine to eat a lot of.

Are cows' digestions as touchy as horses?

broncswin
06-11-2010, 02:11 PM
You would also supplement grain into their diet as well...can't just feed pure alfalfa...get ready for major runny crap from those bastards

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 02:11 PM
Yes it does change the taste...we farm in southeast colorado and our main crop is Alfalfa...we do big bales(1 ton) and the dairies will only buy highly rated hay...it goes through probe testing to determine the nutrients in it...they will not feed the cows hay with bloom...weeds...or if it had to much rain on it while in the windrow. There is no way in Hell I would do what you are planning on...but good luck to you and if you have anymore questions on crop farming let me know

Why wouldn't you do it?

broncswin
06-11-2010, 02:11 PM
Are cows' digestions as touchy as horses?

yes

bronclvr
06-11-2010, 02:11 PM
Yes it does change the taste...we farm in southeast colorado and our main crop is Alfalfa...we do big bales(1 ton) and the dairies will only buy highly rated hay...it goes through probe testing to determine the nutrients in it...they will not feed the cows hay with bloom...weeds...or if it had to much rain on it while in the windrow. There is no way in Hell I would do what you are planning on...but good luck to you and if you have anymore questions on crop farming let me know

Hey, are you guys done with first cutting?

STBumpkin
06-11-2010, 02:12 PM
Are cows' digestions as touchy as horses?

No, a horse can founder if it gets into a hay field. This can kill it. A cow will just get the runs.

broncswin
06-11-2010, 02:13 PM
Why wouldn't you do it?

Farming is hard enough...we have to the perfect setup, but we do not raise organic crops...we could never survive on that method

broncswin
06-11-2010, 02:14 PM
No, a horse can flounder if it gets into a hay field. This can kill it. A cow will just get the runs.

They are very touchy as well...do not let them into a green wheat field or they would bloat and die as well

STBumpkin
06-11-2010, 02:16 PM
So long as you aren't trying to survive strictly off what you raise with no outside income or money, you'll be fine Rohirrim. Our ranch never would have survived with an organic method.

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 02:16 PM
Farming is hard enough...we have to the perfect setup, but we do not raise organic crops...we could never survive on that method

But I'm not talking about going commercial, unless I got good enough at it to open a little restaurant. Even then, it would be small scale. My concept is to have a self sufficient set up. I guess it would be the old concept of a family farm. Not really a business.

STBumpkin
06-11-2010, 02:17 PM
They are very touchy as well...do not let them into a green wheat field or they would bloat and die as well

We never let them into a green wheat field because it would destroy the crop. Our fences were always pretty good, only a few accidents where they'd get into the alfalfa. We always caught them pretty quickly.

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 02:17 PM
So long as you aren't trying to survive strictly off what you raise with no outside income or money, you'll be fine Rohirrim. Our ranch never would have survived with an organic method.

Yeah, I guess you can't get the volume to pay for the overhead. Organics cut it to the bone. I'm not looking at it as a money stream, more as a way of life.

Peoples Champ
06-11-2010, 02:20 PM
go with hogs. You can sell out pigroasts to catering companies, or just cook them yourself for parties. My friend said he knows someone that sold hog roasts for $1500-$3500 a pig depending on how many people it fed.

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 02:34 PM
I love bacon and ham but I couldn't put up with a hog. They're big and mean and they stink.

Vegas_Bronco
06-11-2010, 02:37 PM
We go to Iowa to buy beef from a organic farmer that uses 1 chemical and that is a 'fly repellent' stand for their skin and that is it...no hormones or roids. Iowa can raise much more beef per acre than we can out west. But, the secret is to buy the cow on the hoof and then take it down to a butcher that will do a good job. Booyah - all natural beef. It tastes like real meat and I don't feel like sh** after I've eaten it.

We are on soy milk also with vitamin supplements added each morning at breakfast. I've never felt so good eating cereal. I have organic cow milk 1-2 a week is all....don't like milk much.

Chickens are tough call - personally if you want eggs, the reds are probably the best. But for meat, you might want to mix in some larger breeds. It's tough to do this well b/c the birds are so fragile. We did rabbits also - but it's a bit tougher than chicken, imo. Mix in some geese and turkeys and you'll have a pretty healthy garden each July.


I thoroughly enjoy farming and livestock raising - the secret is to not go overboard as it can become a sinking return really quickly. We buy 1 years worth of organic beef and pork when prices are the cheapest, select a good butcher, and save hundreds-thousands of dollars each year on the grocery bill and get the best 'restaurant' grade of meat for cheap.

I honestly think if you can buy natural protein sources, limit your milk intake, and grow your own produce you have drastically increased your health.

Funny how our society runs on fear - the sell us all kinds of products we really don't need and use fear to run the herd of humans into one way of thinking. Think about how ridiculous insurance, the fda, and govt. in general has become about selling 'fear' to the human herd in order to move the agenda forward using 5% rational to garner a 95% return on their money.

You might like some of these:
http://beprepared.com/Default.asp?bhcd2=1276288566
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW7_cTn6YpE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljyyhk1xESA

worm
06-11-2010, 03:04 PM
Who knew that this Bronco forum has so many freaks on it?

Vegas_Bronco
06-11-2010, 03:28 PM
Who knew that this Bronco forum has so many freaks on it?

You must not know the owner of this site too well. :strong:

Kaylore
06-11-2010, 03:41 PM
If the entire world just did organic farming...3 billion people would starve.


:Broncos:

LOL It actually makes great economic sense to grow your own food if you have the space. It's easy to do and the food tastes better because it's allowed to ripen on the vine. I love fresh grown food and local growers are the best. Raw almonds are the best.

Ugly Duck
06-11-2010, 04:09 PM
I just tore out my backyard rose garden & planted veggies. Oh sure... I say its cuz I'm on the organic buy-local thing. But really its cuz store-bought mass-produced veggies suck compared to real stuff. Take a bite of a rubberized mass-production tomato... now take a bite of a ripe dry-farmed heirloom tomato. See what I mean?

TailgateNut
06-11-2010, 04:25 PM
Well, allow me to post a ****ING UPDATE. I had a wonderful garden when I left for work this morning.
I just got home to a field of stems.

The hailstorm just wiped out weeks of loving attention and hard work.

**** IT!

bronclvr
06-11-2010, 04:30 PM
Well, allow me to post a ****ING UPDATE. I had a wonderful garden when I left for work this morning.
I just got home to a field of stems.

The hailstorm just wiped out weeks of loving attention and hard work.

**** IT!

Farmers in eastern Colorado call it the white Combine-:rofl:

sorry to hear it-

TailgateNut
06-11-2010, 04:40 PM
Farmers in eastern Colorado call it the white Combine-:rofl:

sorry to hear it-


I got home just in time to watch the end of it.

****ing Gdamnit!

I had unbelieveable cuke plants. Everything is ruined.

Any thoughts aside from reseeding or re planting this late? Any chance the plants will "come back" to life?

snowspot66
06-11-2010, 04:42 PM
Farmers in eastern Colorado call it the white Combine-:rofl:

sorry to hear it-

Sounds like a ghost story.

bronclvr
06-11-2010, 04:44 PM
I got home just in time to watch the end of it.

****ing Gdamnit!

I had unbelieveable cuke plants. Everything is ruined.

Any thoughts aside from reseeding or re planting this late? Any chance the plants will "come back" to life?

I'm sure others will chime in, but yes, get some late season plants and give it a go-as for your Plants "coming back", some might, but it's a tough road-

here-read this-

http://web.extension.illinois.edu/champaign/homeowners/030705.html

Rohirrim
06-11-2010, 04:47 PM
I got home just in time to watch the end of it.

****ing Gdamnit!

I had unbelieveable cuke plants. Everything is ruined.

Any thoughts aside from reseeding or re planting this late? Any chance the plants will "come back" to life?

Damn. That's a shame Tailgate. About the only thing you can do is go to a nursery and buy some plants. So far, the hail has missed me (fingers crossed).

houghtam
06-11-2010, 09:14 PM
I got home just in time to watch the end of it.

****ing Gdamnit!

I had unbelieveable cuke plants. Everything is ruined.

Any thoughts aside from reseeding or re planting this late? Any chance the plants will "come back" to life?

TGN, being the beginning of June, it's not THAT late...I'd think if you got to work right away you'd have at least something to show for it by the time it starts getting too cool. Question is, is it worth all the work?

Archer81
06-11-2010, 09:26 PM
LOL It actually makes great economic sense to grow your own food if you have the space. It's easy to do and the food tastes better because it's allowed to ripen on the vine. I love fresh grown food and local growers are the best. Raw almonds are the best.


If everyone on earth grew their own food...there would bo no time for anything else.

And not everyone would want to farm. So it would require more work to grow food for more people the "organic" way, which is just not possible. So people would starve.

And almonds are pretty tasty.

:Broncos:

Archer81
06-11-2010, 09:28 PM
I got home just in time to watch the end of it.

****ing Gdamnit!

I had unbelieveable cuke plants. Everything is ruined.

Any thoughts aside from reseeding or re planting this late? Any chance the plants will "come back" to life?


You could reseed or go and get already started plants...but you will not get the same amount of produce. Its been hot so far this year...probably means when summer ends, its gonna get cold quick.

All you have left is stems?

:Broncos:

broncswin
06-11-2010, 09:31 PM
I got home just in time to watch the end of it.

****ing Gdamnit!

I had unbelieveable cuke plants. Everything is ruined.

Any thoughts aside from reseeding or re planting this late? Any chance the plants will "come back" to life?

You are looking for "Transplants"...you can find them at gardening specialty stores...a little pricey but worth it. Nothing worse than hail!! It is Hell!!

Dedhed
06-12-2010, 07:02 AM
As part of my never ending struggle to "get off the grid" my next goal is to get off the corporate produced food grid. That means organic farming, for one thing. I know a bit about that and am already working on it. What I don't know about, but want to get into, is keeping chickens and a cow. As a side, I also plan on getting into cheesemaking. ("Blessed are the cheesemakers.") Beekeeping will also be somewhere down the road (something I've always wanted to do). From what I've read, the Jersey seems to be the cow I want. Among the chickens, I'm leaning toward Rhode Island Reds and Wyandottes. Any experts out there on the OM? Advice?

I've made a couple of forays into cheesemaking, and I would highly recommend going with sheep or goats over cows if you're looking into a small farm setup. They are much lower maintenance, and the milk is far better for making cheese. And it's just as good on cereal, etc once you get used to it, which is easy.

I get raw goat's milk from a local couple who keep 20-30 goats on about 2 acres of land. Their setup is unbelievable, and so is the milk. It's literally in a residential area with houses all around.

My girlfriend's father has a wind generator already on their property, and he is adding solar panels which he estimates will be able to provide enough power to be able to sell some back to the electric company.

I have a friend who keeps bees, and they make awesome honey, but it's not something I'd be into. She's always telling me about headaches, ie her bees ran away, and she had to take off work and spend the whole day trying to get them back to the hive.

I don't know much about chickens.

Dedhed
06-12-2010, 07:04 AM
If everyone on earth grew their own food...there would bo no time for anything else.

:Broncos:
You realize you don't have to sit and watch the plants grow don't you?

Dukes
06-12-2010, 07:06 AM
I've made a couple of forays into cheesemaking, and I would highly recommend going with sheep or goats over cows if you're looking into a small farm setup. They are much lower maintenance, and the milk is far better for making cheese. And it's just as good on cereal, etc once you get used to it, which is easy.

I get raw goat's milk from a local couple who keep 20-30 goats on about 2 acres of land. Their setup is unbelievable, and so is the milk. It's literally in a residential area with houses all around.

My girlfriend's father has a wind generator already on their property, and he is adding solar panels which he estimates will be able to provide enough power to be able to sell some back to the electric company.

I have a friend who keeps bees, and they make awesome honey, but it's not something I'd be into. She's always telling me about headaches, ie her bees ran away, and she had to take off work and spend the whole day trying to get them back to the hive.

I don't know much about chickens.


i'd be interested to hear how she managed that

Cito Pelon
06-12-2010, 11:12 AM
I'm not set up yet. It's our next move, to sell out the suburban digs and buy land. Get out of the city. I don't want to go commercial with it, just run an outfit that takes care of the family and maybe a bit on the side. Is it feasible for a family to have a Jersey cow or two and do this? I'm assuming we'll be looking somewhere in California so I don't know if winter hay is a necessity as the forage would be available year round out there.

Holy cow, no pun intended. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to be self-sustaining? I'm second-generation off the farm, pal. I know a few things.

With all due respect, you have no idea how difficult it is to run a self-sustaining farm.

I admire you for looking at this, but you have a tough row to hoe.

Maybe you better start with gardening first, get yourself a vegetable garden going. Peas, spinach, pole beans, chard, lettuce, onions, broccoli, squash, cucumber, tomato, cantaloupe, honeydew.

Plant some strawberries, raspberries, gooseberries, apple trees, peach trees, pear trees, plum trees, get a couple grapevines going.

You can raise rabbits dang near anywhere in cages, but in order to eat them, you gotta grab them fluffy things by the scruff, stun them, then cut their throats. And they scream, they know when you're coming to kill them.

So, there is some good points and some bad points to what you want to do.

I say get yourself a vegetable garden going, get your fruit trees going, and look into joining an organic cooperative for the livestock.

And chickens? They're a lot of trouble for what you get. Keep in mind any livestock has to be fed and watered every day. There's no vacations when you own livestock, you are responsible for them every day, not every second day, every day.

Cito Pelon
06-12-2010, 11:23 AM
I don't need to add to the number of "mexicans" in Colorado.
I want an American rooster. One that crows "Good Morning MFer's" not one that crows "Hola".:thanku:

You're wasting your time with caged chickens. The return is not worth the noise, the stench, the thin-shelled eggs, the diseases. You realize you have to clean their cages constantly, right? Wear disposable gloves. Chickens are some filthy animals.

Archer81
06-12-2010, 11:25 AM
You realize you don't have to sit and watch the plants grow don't you?


Really? I had no idea. Wow. Thank you so much for telling me you do not have to watch the plants grow.


:Broncos:

Cito Pelon
06-12-2010, 11:31 AM
Years ago, I lived in an ashram. I'll never forget one of the guys in that house. He had pared down all the evils of eating from "this world" to such a degree that the only thing left for him were local, organic vegetables - raw. Every evening, there he would be, munching on a giant bowl full of zucchini, broccoli, and what not. Sometimes, he squeezed a little miso or tahini on it. He was pale as a ghost and looked like Ichabod Crane. The guy was nearly translucent. He also used to wear these big earphones so the pollution of the world would not be able to invade his consciousness.

I have decided to enjoy life. I no longer smoke, and only occasionally have a bit of wine. My drive to do this has more to do with quality than anything else. I want really good food and it's getting harder and harder to find. So, I think I'll enjoy homemade milk and cheese, and eggs, maybe even bacon every once in awhile. Hell, the people of Russian Georgia eat nothing but pork fat, milk, yogurt, cheese and beef and they live much longer than the people of South India, who are almost entirely vegetarian. Within, perhaps one can find perfection. Outside? Never. It's just part of the setup. So, be happy.

I wish you the best of luck. Hard work never hurt anybody. Like you said, it's a matter of quality. If you want quality often you have to do it yourself. It's a tough row to hoe, but I wish you the best of luck.

TotallyScrewed
06-12-2010, 11:38 AM
I'm more of a hunter than a gatherer...hail isn't as big a deal.

The bigger problem is there's not enough electricity "off the grid" to screw around on the internet.

Cito Pelon
06-12-2010, 11:43 AM
I love bacon and ham but I couldn't put up with a hog. They're big and mean and they stink.

Actually hogs are the easiest and hardiest to raise. You get a piglet, throw it the garden and kitchen scraps, kill it after a year and get good lean pork. Then start all over again.

Cito Pelon
06-12-2010, 11:46 AM
Well, allow me to post a ****ING UPDATE. I had a wonderful garden when I left for work this morning.
I just got home to a field of stems.

The hailstorm just wiped out weeks of loving attention and hard work.

**** IT!

Hail is brutal.

Cito Pelon
06-12-2010, 11:51 AM
I got home just in time to watch the end of it.

****ing Gdamnit!

I had unbelieveable cuke plants. Everything is ruined.

Any thoughts aside from reseeding or re planting this late? Any chance the plants will "come back" to life?

re-planting with nursery plants you'll have a fine crop. Lettuce, pole-beans, chard, cukes, you'll still get a good crop.

rugbythug
06-12-2010, 01:28 PM
I was a commercial Beekeeper for years. Very easy for you to have your own small operation. You just need to buy a couple of 3 lb packages. Might be hard to keep your colony alive long term "organic" Mites, chalk brood and other maladies will kill it. If you do get chalk brood and don't want to use any teramicine, you would need to buy all new equipment and probably burn the old. Mites, just kill all the bees and you start over but the equipment will be fine.

The whole organic thing is great till something gets sick. Every farmer in the country would rather not use herbacides and Insecticides not like they are free. Problem becomes they also like to sell goods, and people hate starving.

OCBronco
06-12-2010, 02:50 PM
If anyone is looking for a good site where you can find locally grown produce, farmer's markets, cheese, meats, etc., I recommend this one:

http://www.localharvest.org/

Rohirrim
06-14-2010, 10:25 AM
I would like to thank everybody for their input. Very educational. I do intend to start small. I already have the garden going. I've been doing that for years. Now I'm going to spend time studying and researching. When I do try the chickens, I'll start small, maybe three or four in a portable coop. If I don't like it, I can always eat my losses. ;D

Cito Pelon
06-14-2010, 11:26 AM
I would like to thank everybody for their input. Very educational. I do intend to start small. I already have the garden going. I've been doing that for years. Now I'm going to spend time studying and researching. When I do try the chickens, I'll start small, maybe three or four in a portable coop. If I don't like it, I can always eat my losses. ;D

You'll absolutely have to look into canning. That's a staple of farm life. You work like a demon to raise surplus in summer, can it right and live off it happily in winter. Canning and pickling correctly is an art.

Livestock is more reliable than crops, you can raise and butcher anytime, keep them caged and warm. Of course, with livestock you must have feed available at all times, and many times that requires cash money.

Fruit and vegetables you better have a stock of them canned and pickled.

PRBronco
06-14-2010, 12:21 PM
Cool thread Ro, this is a real interesting read. There's been a lot of talk in Vancouver lately about "urban chickens", it was just made legal for people to keep them in the city, not sure if this has any info that's new to you: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Want+keep+backyard+chickens+Here+what+need+know/3142410/story.html

Also, regarding your food producing ambition down the road (you mentioned opening a restaurant), a slightly less daunting task might be selling your crop to a local restaurant. There's this really cool restaurant in Courtenay on Vancouver Island called Locals (http://www.localscomoxvalley.com/Home.html) that only uses products grown in the surrounding Comox Valley, it's crazy delicious.

Also, another thing to keep in mind is that goats have devil eyes.

Garcia Bronco
06-14-2010, 12:25 PM
Mass produced food isn't going anywhere.

Rohirrim
06-14-2010, 12:30 PM
You'll absolutely have to look into canning. That's a staple of farm life. You work like a demon to raise surplus in summer, can it right and live off it happily in winter. Canning and pickling correctly is an art.

Livestock is more reliable than crops, you can raise and butcher anytime, keep them caged and warm. Of course, with livestock you must have feed available at all times, and many times that requires cash money.

Fruit and vegetables you better have a stock of them canned and pickled.

Canning is something I did in the past and something I will definitely get more into in the future. Making a compote from fresh fruit in July is pretty simple to do. Pulling it out in the middle of January, heating it up and having it over your oatmeal is an amazing experience.

Requiem
06-14-2010, 12:31 PM
I just got a chicken and duck the other week. They grew quite fast.

Rohirrim
06-14-2010, 12:31 PM
Cool thread Ro, this is a real interesting read. There's been a lot of talk in Vancouver lately about "urban chickens", it was just made legal for people to keep them in the city, not sure if this has any info that's new to you: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Want+keep+backyard+chickens+Here+what+need+know/3142410/story.html

Also, regarding your food producing ambition down the road (you mentioned opening a restaurant), a slightly less daunting task might be selling your crop to a local restaurant. There's this really cool restaurant in Courtenay on Vancouver Island called Locals (http://www.localscomoxvalley.com/Home.html) that only uses products grown in the surrounding Comox Valley, it's crazy delicious.

Also, another thing to keep in mind is that goats have devil eyes.

I'm beginning to think that "returning to the land" is one of the more revolutionary acts we can engage in. I was just reading a paper on how much of our diet is a product of oil and corn. Some things you don't want to learn.

Garcia Bronco
06-14-2010, 12:36 PM
Mass produced food isn't going anywhere.

Rohirrim
06-14-2010, 12:49 PM
We go to Iowa to buy beef from a organic farmer that uses 1 chemical and that is a 'fly repellent' stand for their skin and that is it...no hormones or roids. Iowa can raise much more beef per acre than we can out west. But, the secret is to buy the cow on the hoof and then take it down to a butcher that will do a good job. Booyah - all natural beef. It tastes like real meat and I don't feel like sh** after I've eaten it.

We are on soy milk also with vitamin supplements added each morning at breakfast. I've never felt so good eating cereal. I have organic cow milk 1-2 a week is all....don't like milk much.

Chickens are tough call - personally if you want eggs, the reds are probably the best. But for meat, you might want to mix in some larger breeds. It's tough to do this well b/c the birds are so fragile. We did rabbits also - but it's a bit tougher than chicken, imo. Mix in some geese and turkeys and you'll have a pretty healthy garden each July.


I thoroughly enjoy farming and livestock raising - the secret is to not go overboard as it can become a sinking return really quickly. We buy 1 years worth of organic beef and pork when prices are the cheapest, select a good butcher, and save hundreds-thousands of dollars each year on the grocery bill and get the best 'restaurant' grade of meat for cheap.

I honestly think if you can buy natural protein sources, limit your milk intake, and grow your own produce you have drastically increased your health.

Funny how our society runs on fear - the sell us all kinds of products we really don't need and use fear to run the herd of humans into one way of thinking. Think about how ridiculous insurance, the fda, and govt. in general has become about selling 'fear' to the human herd in order to move the agenda forward using 5% rational to garner a 95% return on their money.

You might like some of these:
http://beprepared.com/Default.asp?bhcd2=1276288566
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW7_cTn6YpE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljyyhk1xESA

Thanks for this. Those vids led me to watch a whole bunch of other vids online. There are quite a few families out there doing what I'm talking about. Very inspiring. Like I said, a big part of this would be just living a life I would love. I'm kind of an endless tinkerer and amateur scientist. That kind of life would fascinate me.

The other interesting thing I bumped into online was there seems to be a whole community out there of people living this kind of life who do a lot of bartering. The holistic beef guy will trade you so much grass fed beef for your cheese, eggs and fruit. I think I've bumped into an underground movement. ;D

Rohirrim
06-14-2010, 12:50 PM
Mass produced food isn't going anywhere.

But I am. ;)

Rohirrim
06-14-2010, 01:13 PM
It's amazing to read up on this stuff. It appears that America's entire food production "industry" is petroleum based. Chemical fertilizers, pesticides, etc. We hybridize everything for quantity, not quality, and then basically just put the soil on steroids to pump out high yields of low quality food to feed an overpopulated world. Unsustainable, folks.

Ugly Duck
06-14-2010, 01:53 PM
It appears that America's entire food production "industry" is petroleum based. Chemical fertilizers, pesticides, etc. We hybridize everything for quantity, not quality, and then basically just put the soil on steroids to pump out high yields of low quality food to feed an overpopulated world. Unsustainable, folks.

So whatcher saying is... essentially, we are eating petroleum. Petroleum to make the fertilizer. Petroleum to make the pesticides. Petroleum to run the farm equipment. Petroleum to transport the stuff. Petroleum: It's what's for dinner!

snowspot66
06-14-2010, 01:53 PM
It's amazing to read up on this stuff. It appears that America's entire food production "industry" is petroleum based. Chemical fertilizers, pesticides, etc. We hybridize everything for quantity, not quality, and then basically just put the soil on steroids to pump out high yields of low quality food to feed an overpopulated world. Unsustainable, folks.

The future is crop sky scrapers. Tons of crops can be grown indoors, year round, pesticide free. Reduces the area used up but increases the crop producing area. Can be built in and around cities and reduces travel distance significantly for the crops. I don't recall if the test building was under construction yet or not.

Cito Pelon
06-14-2010, 01:56 PM
Thanks for this. Those vids led me to watch a whole bunch of other vids online. There are quite a few families out there doing what I'm talking about. Very inspiring. Like I said, a big part of this would be just living a life I would love. I'm kind of an endless tinkerer and amateur scientist. That kind of life would fascinate me.

The other interesting thing I bumped into online was there seems to be a whole community out there of people living this kind of life who do a lot of bartering. The holistic beef guy will trade you so much grass fed beef for your cheese, eggs and fruit. I think I've bumped into an underground movement. ;D

So they say. If I were you I wouldn't buy into it too much.

This has been an interesting thread, but there is no way, no how you're gonna be able to live off grid. Unless you and the family will somehow enjoy being the poorest of the poor.

You're talking about trying to make a life by Afghanistan standards. How long do you expect that to last?

It's not gonna happen, ok? Many people have tried it before you, and it doesn't work out. You're not gonna revolutionize the independent lifestyle. The best you can do is grow a garden. Fooling around with livestock is gonna get you into a bigger hole.

bronclvr
06-14-2010, 02:00 PM
The future is crop sky scrapers. Tons of crops can be grown indoors, year round, pesticide free. Reduces the area used up but increases the crop producing area. Can be built in and around cities and reduces travel distance significantly for the crops. I don't recall if the test building was under construction yet or not.


Poppycock-that is the stuff for Popular Mechanics and the ilk-Production Farming (including min-till, no-till, strip Farming and such) are here to stay-

azbroncfan
06-14-2010, 02:16 PM
As part of my never ending struggle to "get off the grid" my next goal is to get off the corporate produced food grid. That means organic farming, for one thing. I know a bit about that and am already working on it. What I don't know about, but want to get into, is keeping chickens and a cow. As a side, I also plan on getting into cheesemaking. ("Blessed are the cheesemakers.") Beekeeping will also be somewhere down the road (something I've always wanted to do). From what I've read, the Jersey seems to be the cow I want. Among the chickens, I'm leaning toward Rhode Island Reds and Wyandottes. Any experts out there on the OM? Advice?

How much land do you got?

Rohirrim
06-14-2010, 03:00 PM
So they say. If I were you I wouldn't buy into it too much.

This has been an interesting thread, but there is no way, no how you're gonna be able to live off grid. Unless you and the family will somehow enjoy being the poorest of the poor.

You're talking about trying to make a life by Afghanistan standards. How long do you expect that to last?

It's not gonna happen, ok? Many people have tried it before you, and it doesn't work out. You're not gonna revolutionize the independent lifestyle. The best you can do is grow a garden. Fooling around with livestock is gonna get you into a bigger hole.

Well, I'm not talking about something that radical. I don't want to become John of the Wilderness or something. As I said before, my income is separate, so I don't expect it to be an income producing thing, more of a way of life. I figure I can get the majority of my food growing it myself and it will be higher quality, better tasting and more healthy. I still expect to go to the store for paper towels. I'm not going to start making my own paper or spinning wool and weaving my clothes. I still expect to keep my 52" flat screen operating.

What I would like to do is "primarily" live off of solar power and a self-sustaining piece of agriculture. Maybe 10 acres or so. Maybe even less. Have a cow, some chickens, pigs, goats, organic farming, small orchard and everything feeding into everything else. The livestock eat the leftovers and do the weeding and create fertilizer. Cycle them through separated pastures using movable electric fencing. Chickens eat the bugs in the garden. The bees pollinate the fruit and make honey. Fresh eggs, milk, honey and cheese. etc. Where I'm looking in California, citrus and grapes are also an option. Maybe a little wine. ;D

cmhargrove
06-14-2010, 03:02 PM
Forget all the canning and pickling, I know what you can do with the extra produce...

bronclvr
06-14-2010, 03:13 PM
What I would like to do is "primarily" live off of solar power and a self-sustaining piece of agriculture. Maybe 10 acres or so. Maybe even less. Have a cow, some chickens, pigs, goats, organic farming, small orchard and everything feeding into everything else. The livestock eat the leftovers and do the weeding and create fertilizer. Cycle them through separated pastures using movable electric fencing. Chickens eat the bugs in the garden. The bees pollinate the fruit and make honey. Fresh eggs, milk, honey and cheese. etc. Where I'm looking in California, citrus and grapes are also an option. Maybe a little wine. ;D

Ro,

You aren't plaaning to work a real Job too are you? I have a business aquaintance who shares sort of the same views, and he now has 4 Cows, 3 Pigs, some Chickens and a Goat-he's getting rid of three Cows because he works a full time Job and doesn't have the time to take care of anything else.

I also have an Employee who has 200 Acres and actively Hays it, along with about 40 Cows-the difference? Employee #2 has Kids at Home-Hilarious!^5:wave:

Rohirrim
06-14-2010, 03:19 PM
Ro,

You aren't plaaning to work a real Job too are you? I have a business aquaintance who shares sort of the same views, and he now has 4 Cows, 3 Pigs, some Chickens and a Goat-he's getting rid of three Cows because he works a full time Job and doesn't have the time to take care of anything else.

I also have an Employee who has 200 Acres and actively Hays it, along with about 40 Cows-the difference? Employee #2 has Kids at Home-Hilarious!^5:wave:

I'm switching over to an out-of-office job. Yeah, from what I've read, one of the dangers seems to be controlling expansion. Before you know it, you have more critters than you can deal with. That's why I'm reading up on sausage making. ;D

bronclvr
06-14-2010, 03:26 PM
That's why I'm reading up on sausage making. ;D
Just remember, Lips and A**holes-

TotallyScrewed
06-14-2010, 03:27 PM
Well, I'm not talking about something that radical. I don't want to become John of the Wilderness or something. As I said before, my income is separate, so I don't expect it to be an income producing thing, more of a way of life. I figure I can get the majority of my food growing it myself and it will be higher quality, better tasting and more healthy. I still expect to go to the store for paper towels. I'm not going to start making my own paper or spinning wool and weaving my clothes. I still expect to keep my 52" flat screen operating.

What I would like to do is "primarily" live off of solar power and a self-sustaining piece of agriculture. Maybe 10 acres or so. Maybe even less. Have a cow, some chickens, pigs, goats, organic farming, small orchard and everything feeding into everything else. The livestock eat the leftovers and do the weeding and create fertilizer. Cycle them through separated pastures using movable electric fencing. Chickens eat the bugs in the garden. The bees pollinate the fruit and make honey. Fresh eggs, milk, honey and cheese. etc. Where I'm looking in California, citrus and grapes are also an option. Maybe a little wine. ;D

On 10 acres??? You must live in the Garden Of Eden now.

Here's what really happens...

Plow enough soil for a garden by spending a ton for a tractor that's too big or don't spend enough money and blow up a weaker tractor and spend a ton getting it removed from the garden and fixed, just in time to let it sit the rest of 2010.

Plant like crazy only to watch the birds collect your seeds or the weeds choke them out. Spend most nights and weekends working on fence, weeding, repairing, watering and getting the livestock out of the garden or going over just how this was supposed to be relaxing and good for you and your pocketbook.

Finally, you'll get some produce which you can't sell and can't even give away because everybody has Zucchini, Yellow squash and Cucumbers a plenty and if they don't neither do you. This has been the plague of farmers since farming began.

Finally, after polling, neutering, vaccinating, feeding, watering, and repeatedly collecting your animals, you find that the wife and kids have adopted them as pets and will have your balls for dinner if you some much as look up the number of a butcher...which you don't want to anyway because they'll take all the profits from your work.

Good luck with that...

Cito Pelon
06-14-2010, 04:12 PM
Well, I'm not talking about something that radical. I don't want to become John of the Wilderness or something. As I said before, my income is separate, so I don't expect it to be an income producing thing, more of a way of life. I figure I can get the majority of my food growing it myself and it will be higher quality, better tasting and more healthy. I still expect to go to the store for paper towels. I'm not going to start making my own paper or spinning wool and weaving my clothes. I still expect to keep my 52" flat screen operating.

What I would like to do is "primarily" live off of solar power and a self-sustaining piece of agriculture. Maybe 10 acres or so. Maybe even less. Have a cow, some chickens, pigs, goats, organic farming, small orchard and everything feeding into everything else. The livestock eat the leftovers and do the weeding and create fertilizer. Cycle them through separated pastures using movable electric fencing. Chickens eat the bugs in the garden. The bees pollinate the fruit and make honey. Fresh eggs, milk, honey and cheese. etc. Where I'm looking in California, citrus and grapes are also an option. Maybe a little wine. ;D

Earthship.com can maybe help you out quite a bit.

I think you're nuts, but if you think it's ok, that's ok with me also.

loborugger
06-14-2010, 04:12 PM
On 10 acres??? You must live in the Garden Of Eden now.

Here's what really happens...

Plow enough soil for a garden by spending a ton for a tractor that's too big or don't spend enough money and blow up a weaker tractor and spend a ton getting it removed from the garden and fixed, just in time to let it sit the rest of 2010.

Plant like crazy only to watch the birds collect your seeds or the weeds choke them out. Spend most nights and weekends working on fence, weeding, repairing, watering and getting the livestock out of the garden or going over just how this was supposed to be relaxing and good for you and your pocketbook.

Finally, you'll get some produce which you can't sell and can't even give away because everybody has Zucchini, Yellow squash and Cucumbers a plenty and if they don't neither do you. This has been the plague of farmers since farming began.

Finally, after polling, neutering, vaccinating, feeding, watering, and repeatedly collecting your animals, you find that the wife and kids have adopted them as pets and will have your balls for dinner if you some much as look up the number of a butcher...which you don't want to anyway because they'll take all the profits from your work.

Good luck with that...

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Your an optimist, arent you?

Cito Pelon
06-14-2010, 04:47 PM
I'm switching over to an out-of-office job. Yeah, from what I've read, one of the dangers seems to be controlling expansion. Before you know it, you have more critters than you can deal with. That's why I'm reading up on sausage making. ;D

haha, very funny.

Just relax and don't get into livestock too fast. Once you get into livestock, you live and die with them.

azbroncfan
06-14-2010, 05:06 PM
With only 10 acres it will cost you more to have a farm than you realize. That is only enough to have a couple cows and you don't have enough to grow enough food to feed them. Go price hay and you might want to puke. Totally screwed drew it up pretty accurate. A common saying is a million bucks will keep you farming for a couple years.

loborugger
06-14-2010, 06:02 PM
What you really need to do is figure out a way to get the gubmint to pay you for not planting a crop.

azbroncfan
06-14-2010, 07:10 PM
What you really need to do is figure out a way to get the gubmint to pay you for not planting a crop.

Some places they will pay you more to let it turn to weeds vs what it would cost you to grow a crop.

Ugly Duck
06-14-2010, 07:14 PM
Some places they will pay you more to let it turn to weeds vs what it would cost you to grow a crop.

Heck, no matter where you are it pays more to grow weed than to grow any other crop.

Dedhed
06-14-2010, 07:34 PM
Petroleum: It's what's for dinner!

Rather literally if you hope to eat gulf shrimp anytime soon.

snowspot66
06-14-2010, 08:17 PM
Poppycock-that is the stuff for Popular Mechanics and the ilk-Production Farming (including min-till, no-till, strip Farming and such) are here to stay-

Of course they are. It doesn't make as much sense to grow a crop like wheat or indoors. You can't grow every crop indoors and it wouldn't change over night anyway. But you can grow a lot of them indoors and it only makes sense to do so. Some take to it extremely well and with much higher yields. A lot of vegetables really thrive in that environment. Closer to the consumer, year round growing at any location on earth, minimal or no pesticides. We already make everything else in massive factories. Why not food? (excluding the mass produced processed foods from that statement)

Dedhed
06-14-2010, 08:29 PM
A common saying is a million bucks will keep you farming for a couple years.
That's a saying about commercial farming. Which is exactly why Ro and others are interested in being more self sufficient.

It takes a million govt dollars to keep a commercial farm running for a couple of years.

Dedhed
06-14-2010, 08:39 PM
What you really need to do is figure out a way to get the gubmint to pay you for not planting a crop.Again, this speaks to the unsustainability of commercial farming.

Low quality food grown in a way that destroys the environment and subsidized p the wazoo by govt dollars. Most of which goes back to Monsanto and their genetically modified "roundup ready" seed.