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Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 11:16 AM
Sorry if this info is elsewhere, from the nether regions of ESPN.com.
--
Many NFL coaches were rumored to be on the hot seat over the course of the 2009 season, and in the beginning of the offseason. While all of the first-year coaches were still on a bit of a honeymoon with their new franchises, Year Two could be a make-or-break one for several of them.

One coach who might be in that boat is Josh McDaniels. The Denver Broncos charged out to a 6-0 record in the 2009 season's initial sextet of contests, but then went 2-8 over the final 10 weeks. Personnel-wise, the inherited "Big Three" -- QB Jay Cutler, WR Brandon Marshall and TE Tony Scheffler -- have all been sent off to other franchises, meaning that fundamentally, this is now the team that McDaniels (and GM Brian Xanders) wants. Due to these factors and several more, Mark Kiszla of the Denver Post thinks that unless the Broncos win at least 10 games in 2010 -- winning the AFC West in the process -- it will be considered a failure. Kiszla even channels Hulk Hogan in his opinion piece, writing: "There are no five-year plans allowed at the professional level. This ain't college football, brother. It's the NFL."

----
Q: There is already talk of coaches being on the hot seat, and Josh McDaniels' name has been thrown around as one of them. However, if you listen to Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis, they seem to think they have a gem of a coach in McDaniels, and the drafting of Tim Tebow only adds to the fact that McDaniels will get at least get three years for sure, but more like 4-5 years to prove he was a good hire. Your thoughts?

-- Willie (Windsor, Colo.)

A: Willie, my thoughts, which Bowlen and Ellis are aware of, is that McDaniels is going to be a star head coach. Sometimes coaches go through growing periods -- look at Mike Shanahan in Oakland and Bill Belichick in Cleveland. And that's not to say that McDaniels won't succeed in Denver. But sometimes it takes a little time for young coaches to make their mark. Bowlen and Ellis know how skilled McDaniels is. They know how much it means to be patient in this league. And they're standing by their man -- can't blame them, as much as some Broncos fans want to.
-Shefter

crush17
06-11-2010, 11:22 AM
Kiszla is trash. Not surprised.

baja
06-11-2010, 11:23 AM
more espn nonsense

Popps
06-11-2010, 11:24 AM
Personnel-wise, the inherited "Big Three" -- QB Jay Cutler, WR Brandon Marshall and TE Tony Scheffler

Hilarious!

I can't tell if this article is for teh lulz, or what.

Big three. That's fantastic.

crush17
06-11-2010, 11:25 AM
The big 3 who got us to the playoffs all those seasons.... oh wait.

Archer81
06-11-2010, 11:32 AM
When did Scheffler become a big three?


:Broncos:

baja
06-11-2010, 11:35 AM
When did Scheffler become a big three?


:Broncos:

The3y mean the three biggest me guys.

Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 11:35 AM
Hilarious!

I can't tell if this article is for teh lulz, or what.

Big three. That's fantastic.It's in quotes too, as if it's a commonly used nickname.

Shefter sure isn't shy about praising McDaniels, which is nice given the anti-Bronco MSM field these days.

The Joker
06-11-2010, 11:37 AM
That Scheffler thing is hilarious.

We will just have to be content with such clearly lesser players as Clady, Harris, Royal and Kuper from the previous regime I guess.

jhns
06-11-2010, 11:39 AM
I would say the big three were Cutler, Marshall, and Clady. Also, while I think McDaniels should have been fired about 14 months ago, I do not get why anyone would think Bowlen would fire him so early. It is pretty obvious Bowlen is behind him and I bet he will at least get to stay through his contract.

Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 11:46 AM
FYI, Minicamp report on tebow and the broncos coming up on sportscenter in minutes.

oubronco
06-11-2010, 11:46 AM
It might be the big 4 with the way they are lowballing Doom

Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 11:53 AM
FYI, Minicamp report on tebow and the broncos coming up on sportscenter in minutes.

Pretty weak report. Colleen Dominguez (I believe) reported that every position is an open competition and that they are filming everyone of Tebow's snaps (I imagine they do this with all the QBs) and that he's working extensively with Ben McDaniels. The video they showed was from a month ago.

Kaylore
06-11-2010, 11:53 AM
When did Scheffler become a big three?


:Broncos:

I still don't get that. Maybe the three biggest whiners?

Kaylore
06-11-2010, 11:55 AM
Pretty weak report. Colleen Dominguez (I believe) reported that every position is an open competition and that they are filming everyone of Tebow's snaps (I imagine they do this with all the QBs) and that he's working extensively with Ben McDaniels. The video they showed was from a month ago.

How much you want to bet she didn't even step foot on the field. I saw Sal Paolantonio do a "report" from camp once where he said nothing new at all. I wondered if they didn't just use a backdrop of Dove Valley at Bristol to create the illusion.

Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 11:56 AM
It might be the big 4 with the way they are lowballing Doom

He's signing his tender Monday.

broncosteven
06-11-2010, 11:58 AM
I think mCd is an easy lazy pick for all the reasons he mentions.

I agree with Sheff, mCd is learning on our dime, if he wins 10 games this year he is on or ahead of schedule but with the Tebow distraction and lack of Orton contract beyond this year I am guessing it could take 4-5 years for mCd to build his dominat playoff contender.

I hope it is quicker than that but I am guessing this will be a long process and depends on how Tebow progresses, if they sign Doom, and how the new stock of WR's brought in to replace Marshall's production pan out.

There are a lot more questions out there than locks.

Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 11:59 AM
How much you want to bet she didn't even step foot on the field. I saw Sal Paolantonio do a "report" from camp once where he said nothing new at all. I wondered if they didn't just use a backdrop of Dove Valley at Bristol to create the illusion.Or outside the ESPN studio, in the parking lot, where they planted some conifers.

Why waste that reporters time with that? Seems like sloppy use of resources to me.

Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 12:01 PM
I am guessing it could take 4-5 years for mCd to build his dominat playoff contender.Really? That seems out of touch. Or just hyperbole.

eddie mac
06-11-2010, 12:01 PM
We might lose a few games this year but we wont have a bitch at QB gurning, a WR constantly yapping about his wallet and a TE (who still cant ****ing block) crying cos he isn't on the field every play.

**** all 3, good riddance, goodbye, I couldn't give a **** if you ever do anything in this league in another uniform. If your team's playing and I have to watch I'm hoping your opponent smacks those tears from your eyes.

Archer81
06-11-2010, 12:02 PM
We might lose a few games this year but we wont have a b**** at QB gurning, a WR constantly yapping about his wallet and a TE (who still cant ****ing block) crying cos he isn't on the field every play.

**** all 3, good riddance, goodbye, I couldn't give a **** if you ever do anything in this league in another uniform. If your team's playing and I have to watch I'm hoping your opponent smacks those tears from your eyes.

Did I ever tell you you're my hero?


:Broncos:

Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 12:04 PM
If your team's playing and I have to watch I'm hoping your opponent smacks those tears from your eyes.I viscerally feel this way as well. It puzzles me that more fans don't feel betrayed by these players (as opposed to feeling betrayed by the team).

Chris
06-11-2010, 12:05 PM
Why do the Denver post writers suck so much?

baja
06-11-2010, 12:07 PM
I viscerally feel this way as well. It puzzles me that more fans don't feel betrayed by these players (as opposed to feeling betrayed by the team).

That is true with Cutler and Tony but I don't have any issues with marshall.

eddie mac
06-11-2010, 12:13 PM
That is true with Cutler and Tony but I don't have any issues with marshall.

I honestly believe if he'd kept his mouth shut, kept his head down and worked for the entire season like he did for the first 10-12 weeks we wouldn't have suspended him and we'd have been playing in the playoffs.

Just my opinion, there must've been a good reason for our team captains to support McDaniels disciplinary measures against him and that threw this team off track at the end. Sure there were other issues but this certainly did not help a team who was totally together for the first part of the season.

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 12:15 PM
That Scheffler thing is hilarious.

We will just have to be content with such clearly lesser players as Clady, Harris, Royal and Kuper from the previous regime I guess.I know...I mean Richard Quinn is twice the player that Scheff was...right?

Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 12:15 PM
That is true with Cutler and Tony but I don't have any issues with marshall.If Marshall wasn't so pervasively immature, he'd still be a Bronco. I admit, he's more likable than the other two, and probably wasn't as ill-intentioned, but his laziness and glibness feel a bit like betrayal to me.

Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 12:19 PM
I know...I mean Richard Quinn is twice the player that Scheff was...right?
If we use Quinn as much as we used Sheffler, what will it matter? (Hint: It won't matter.)

Popps
06-11-2010, 12:21 PM
When did Scheffler become a big three?


:Broncos:

The "Big" three...

1. Marshall - Nice numbers, total head case and a ****-up away from being out for a year.

2. Cutler - Consistently leads the league in INTs and has won nothing at any level.

3. Sheffler - Ha ha ha hahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha. BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 12:23 PM
I think it's pretty silly how so many of you fail to acknowlege the talent we let walk out the door.

McD has 2 drafts in his pocket. He's spent many high picks on guys like:

1. Moreno
2. Ayers
3. Smith
4. Quinn
5. McBath
6. Tebow
7. Thomas
8. Beadles

Look, I'm crossing my fingers and I've got alot of respect for McD's lack of fear. But, if some of those guys don't show themselves this year. Bowlen can stand by him all he wants. The media and the fans will be on a feeding frenzy!

You simply can't cast off immensely talented players and draft so many 1st and 2nd round picks and not see the pay-off. He may get a 3rd year if we don't make the playoffs this year...but, Moreno better look a lot better, Ayers better start to show, Smith and Quinn better deliver etc. or it's going to be an uphill climb.

I'm rooting for him...just stating the facts.

Rabb
06-11-2010, 12:23 PM
Hilarious!

I can't tell if this article is for teh lulz, or what.

Big three. That's fantastic.

yep, when I saw Scheffler's name there I stopped reading...give me a break

Archer81
06-11-2010, 12:24 PM
I think it's pretty silly how so many of you fail to acknowlege the talent we let walk out the door.

McD has 2 drafts in his pocket. He's spent many high picks on guys like:

Moreno
1. Ayers
2. Smith
3. Quinn
4. McBath
5. Tebow
6. Thomas
7. Beadles

Look, I'm crossing my fingers and I've got alot of respect for McD's lack of fear. But, if some of those guys don't show themselves this year. Bowlen can stand by him all he wants. The media and the fans will be on a feeding frenzy!

You simply can't cast off immensely talented players and draft so many 1st and 2nd round picks and not see the pay-off. He may get a 3rd year if we don't make the playoffs this year...but, Moreno better look a lot better, Ayers better start to show, Smith and Quinn better deliver etc. or it's going to be an uphill clime.

I'm rooting for him...just stating the facts.


How many wins did we get with all the "talent" that left?


:Broncos:

outdoor_miner
06-11-2010, 12:27 PM
Seriously - how does Scheffler get mentioned in this crap?

He was such a hot commodity league-wide that he and a seventh round pick got us a 5th round pick in return. That probably equates to about a sixth round pick. Clearly - the rest of the league sees what Josh McDaniels doesn't. ::)

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 12:28 PM
If we use Quinn as much as we used Sheffler, what will it matter? (Hint: It won't matter.)Here's what Quinn has to duplicate:

Biography
PRO:Tight end Tony Scheffler was acquired by Detroit from Denver in a three-team trade April 19, 2010. Scheffler has spent the previous four years of his career with the Broncos and finished the 2009 season tied for fourth on the club with 31 receptions while ranking third on the team with 416 receiving yards through 15 games played with nine starts. Over the span of his four-year career, Scheffler has recorded 138 receptions for 1,896 yards and 14 touchdowns through 57 games with 28 starts. Originally drafted by Denver in the second round (61st overall) of the 2006 NFL Draft out of Western Michigan.

•Led all NFL tight ends and set a Denver single-season record for tight ends with a 16.1 yards per reception average in 2008 that helped him register a career-high 645 receiving yards (40 receptions), which ranked eighth in the league at his position.
•Placed second on the Broncos in receptions (49) and receiving yards (549) in 2007, ranking 10th and 11th, respectively, in the league among his position group in those categories.
•Set a Broncos record for touchdown receptions (4) by a rookie tight end in 2006 and recorded 18 catches for 286 yards (15.9 avg.) during his first professional season.
•Owns eight receptions of at least 30 yards for his career, including a personal-best 72-yard grab that he made on Monday Night Football at Oakland (9/8/08).

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 12:30 PM
How many wins did we get with all the "talent" that left?


:Broncos:We had 3yrs invested in them. Let's see if any of the 8 or so top picks McD makes do any better their first 3yrs. Then, let's hear your bashing once again.

Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 12:32 PM
just stating the facts.Those aren't facts. Unless you're making the generalization that rookies and second year players aren't sure things--if so, top notch work.

Archer81
06-11-2010, 12:32 PM
We had 3yrs invested in them. Let's see if any of the 8 or so top picks McD makes do any better their first 3yrs. Then, let's hear your bashing once again.


As you said, stating a fact can hardly be bashing. Within three years of drafting Troy Aikman, Emmett Smith and Michael Irving, the Cowboys were superbowl champions...


:Broncos:

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 12:34 PM
As you said, stating a fact can hardly be bashing. Within three years of drafting Troy Aikman, Emmett Smith and Michael Irving, the Cowboys were superbowl champions...


:Broncos:So, in 2-3yrs, we can all expect a Superbowl victory. Correct?

That's your logic..right?

jhns
06-11-2010, 12:34 PM
How many wins did we get with all the "talent" that left?


:Broncos:

It was an offense of rookie to third year guys that were playing with the franchises worst ever defense. Great comeback....

The fans on some of these message boards really make it seem like Bronco fans are half retarded.

broncosteven
06-11-2010, 12:36 PM
The "Big" three...

1. Marshall - Nice numbers, total head case and a ****-up away from being out for a year.

2. Cutler - Consistently leads the league in INTs and has won nothing at any level.

3. Sheffler - Ha ha ha hahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha. BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA

I agree about Sheffler and Cutler never winning anything at any level but saying Cutler Consistently leads the league in INT's is wrong, he lead it last year and was 2nd in 2008 but no where near the top in 2007.

Add in the fact that he has 81 TD's and 63 INTS.

Cutler never had a year where he threw more INT's that TD's though he came close last year, unlike Plummer who ended his career throwing as many INT's as TD's and never winning anything at any level.

I am not defending Cutler as much as pointing out the hole in your statement.

I think if you wanted to attack him just point out leading the league last year in INTS and the fact that he is douche on and off the field.

Now that these douches are gone it will be interesting to see how the team progresses without any scape goats from the old regime holding us back.

Carmelo15
06-11-2010, 12:37 PM
Did I ever tell you you're my hero?


:Broncos:

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/11573509/Bette+Midler+bette.jpg

Archer81
06-11-2010, 12:37 PM
So, in 2-3yrs, we can all expect a Superbowl victory. Correct?

That's your logic..right?


You said three years.

In three years, the "big three" managed a perfect 24-24 record.

Facts are not scary, man. If the Broncos make the playoffs one time the next two years they automatically trump anything done by the "most talented trio EVAR".

:Broncos:

crush17
06-11-2010, 01:03 PM
We might lose a few games this year but we wont have a b**** at QB gurning, a WR constantly yapping about his wallet and a TE (who still cant ****ing block) crying cos he isn't on the field every play.

**** all 3, good riddance, goodbye, I couldn't give a **** if you ever do anything in this league in another uniform. If your team's playing and I have to watch I'm hoping your opponent smacks those tears from your eyes.


best.
post.
ever.

The Joker
06-11-2010, 01:10 PM
I know...I mean Richard Quinn is twice the player that Scheff was...right?

No, not on any evidence I've seen so far.

My point was that calling Scheffler one of our 'Big 3' is laughable.

Or do you think he was better than any of the players I actually mentioned in my post? (as opposed to ones you pulled out of your ass for no apparent reason)

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 02:27 PM
No, not on any evidence I've seen so far.

My point was that calling Scheffler one of our 'Big 3' is laughable.

Or do you think he was better than any of the players I actually mentioned in my post? (as opposed to ones you pulled out of your ass for no apparent reason)I think the mention of "The big three" had more to do with the fact that they were drafted together and all offensive skill position players. And, I think everybody here knows they've been linked together since they were drafted. All three have tremendous talent and, despte the ignorant sentiment around here, all three have produced at a high level in the NFL.

Very rarely do you let such talent walk away and role the dice hoping you can replace their talent level. In their 3rd year in the NFL they were the leagues 2nd rated offense. They didnt' play defense folks. That's pretty good for guys who most of you sneeze at.

We can only hope McD's drafts are equally talented. Perhaps Moreno and Thomas along with Tebow will prove to be the more talented trio. We can only wait to see.

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 02:31 PM
You said three years.

In three years, the "big three" managed a perfect 24-24 record.

Facts are not scary, man. If the Broncos make the playoffs one time the next two years they automatically trump anything done by the "most talented trio EVAR".

:Broncos:I listed 2-3 simply because half of those 8 have already played 1 yr. An offense is half the equation...those 3 equated to one of the best offenses in the game (ranked 2nd) in only their 3rd year.

Let's see if McD's offense can match it over the next 2yrs? I hope so.

Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 02:32 PM
despte the ignorant sediment around here
lol

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 02:32 PM
As you said, stating a fact can hardly be bashing. Within three years of drafting Troy Aikman, Emmett Smith and Michael Irving, the Cowboys were superbowl champions...


:Broncos:True that...how many other teams can claim the same? So, maybe ranking 2nd in offense was pretty good too?

tsiguy96
06-11-2010, 02:34 PM
Seriously - how does Scheffler get mentioned in this crap?

He was such a hot commodity league-wide that he and a seventh round pick got us a 5th round pick in return. That probably equates to about a sixth round pick. Clearly - the rest of the league sees what Josh McDaniels doesn't. ::)

i was arguing with the guy from rotoworld on twitter about this, he said scheffler is the most explosive TE in teh game, i asked him what about schefflers game in the NFL has been so great? hes never even topped 50 receptions in a year, even under shanahan.

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 02:34 PM
lolAre you laughing at the spelling or the comment?

crush17
06-11-2010, 02:38 PM
spelling for $1000 alex

Pseudofool
06-11-2010, 02:39 PM
Are you laughing at the spelling or the comment?
Both. The irony and the malapropism also add to its lol quality.

Taco John
06-11-2010, 02:40 PM
I would think that McDaniels would be given the opportunity to build his program for no less than three years. If in the third year, we're not contending for the division or better, I could see Bowlen *maybe* doing something. But this isn't the Wade Phillips era part deux. McDaniels is going to be given ample opportunity to build his program and culture. Pat isn't going to be sneaking into hotels any time soon with nose glasses to try and woo an uprising hot shot. He's got his man.

tsiguy96
06-11-2010, 02:44 PM
I would think that McDaniels would be given the opportunity to build his program for no less than three years. If in the third year, we're not contending for the division or better, I could see Bowlen *maybe* doing something. But this isn't the Wade Phillips era part deux. McDaniels is going to be given ample opportunity to build his program and culture. Pat isn't going to be sneaking into hotels any time soon with nose glasses to try and woo an uprising hot shot. He's got his man.

pretty much. most people think kubiak is still the guy in houston because hes assembling teh team the way he wants it, its been like 5 years with no playoffs there. gotta give them some time to build a contender...

Vegas_Bronco
06-11-2010, 02:56 PM
Remember our final options?....I like Josh best out of the pool.

Vikings defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier,
Cowboys offensive coordinator Jason Garrett,
Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels,
Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo,
Buccaneers defensive coordinator Raheem Morris

Dagmar
06-11-2010, 03:17 PM
Whenever the Scheffler argument comes up I like monty to have final word.

http://i48.tinypic.com/20svrc9.png

Kaylore
06-11-2010, 03:29 PM
I would think that McDaniels would be given the opportunity to build his program for no less than three years. If in the third year, we're not contending for the division or better, I could see Bowlen *maybe* doing something. But this isn't the Wade Phillips era part deux. McDaniels is going to be given ample opportunity to build his program and culture. Pat isn't going to be sneaking into hotels any time soon with nose glasses to try and woo an uprising hot shot. He's got his man.

I don't agree. I think if we don't make the playoffs this year there will be trouble. And if we are worse than five wins this year, I could see McDaniels getting canned.

crush17
06-11-2010, 03:35 PM
Whenever the Scheffler argument comes up I like monty to have final word.

http://i48.tinypic.com/20svrc9.png

Pure gold. Thanks for posting again.

tsiguy96
06-11-2010, 03:38 PM
I don't agree. I think if we don't make the playoffs this year there will be trouble. And if we are worse than five wins this year, I could see McDaniels getting canned.

i like you, but i think most agree with the most reputable NFL news and updates guy, schefter....

BroncoInferno
06-11-2010, 04:12 PM
I don't agree. I think if we don't make the playoffs this year there will be trouble. And if we are worse than five wins this year, I could see McDaniels getting canned.

He'll get at least two more seasons from Bowlen. Probably more...I suspect it would take a pair of losing seasons to do him in after two. This is all pretty clear from the various statements made by Bowlen. He plans to be patient and not risk becoming the Al Davis to McDaniel's Shanahan.

Br0nc0Buster
06-11-2010, 04:19 PM
Remember our final options?....I like Josh best out of the pool.

Vikings defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier,
Cowboys offensive coordinator Jason Garrett,
Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels,
Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo,
Buccaneers defensive coordinator Raheem Morris

there was also Rex Ryan

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 04:54 PM
Remember our final options?....I like Josh best out of the pool.

Vikings defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier,
Cowboys offensive coordinator Jason Garrett,
Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels,
Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo,
Buccaneers defensive coordinator Raheem MorrisAdd Shanahan to that list.

Vegas_Bronco
06-11-2010, 04:56 PM
Add Shanahan to that list.

So...you saying that Pat and Mike met together secretly behind McD's back sharing drinks and ideas last season? We better tell Kizla.

After all he was on payroll???

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 04:56 PM
Both. The irony and the malapropism also add to its lol quality.I'm not sure of the irony and I'll have to go to my Websters before I try understanding the other.

GreatBronco16
06-11-2010, 04:58 PM
those 3 equated to one of the best offenses in the game (ranked 2nd) in only their 3rd year.


So are you another fan that thinks, yards win games? Where did they place in points scored again? Far from second best I believe.

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 04:59 PM
So...you saying that Pat and Mike met together secretly behind McD's back sharing drinks and ideas? We better tell Kizla.No, I'm saying one option was...not to fire Shanahan.

Bowlen has alot more riding on McD then you might think. If Shanny succeeds with the Skins and McD ends up being a huge flop...which is what he'll be if we're not in the playoffs this year...Bowlen will have egg on his face.

Change is only good if it's better.

bronclvr
06-11-2010, 04:59 PM
Both. The irony and the malapropism also add to its lol quality.

Wow! How long did you wait to use that word?

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 05:00 PM
So are you another fan that thinks, yards win games? Where did they place in points scored again? Far from second best I believe.We don't have to rehash this...I understand the concept. However, anyway you want to stack it up...that offense was pretty good...for a very young squad.

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 05:05 PM
I don't agree. I think if we don't make the playoffs this year there will be trouble. And if we are worse than five wins this year, I could see McDaniels getting canned.I agree...if this team chokes this year...he's in trouble.

If he has the team contending for the playoffs, most likely he'll stick...but, next year playoffs will be a requirement.

If we make the playoffs this year...all is good, because we should be on track.

Personally, I'm rooting for him...because, I think he's going to be a very good head coach. But, failing to acknowledge that Bowlen won't be happy if we have another sub-par year isn't realistic. Win only 5 games and he could be yesterday's news!

gyldenlove
06-11-2010, 05:53 PM
I would think that McDaniels would be given the opportunity to build his program for no less than three years. If in the third year, we're not contending for the division or better, I could see Bowlen *maybe* doing something. But this isn't the Wade Phillips era part deux. McDaniels is going to be given ample opportunity to build his program and culture. Pat isn't going to be sneaking into hotels any time soon with nose glasses to try and woo an uprising hot shot. He's got his man.

I think the plan is and always was that Mcdaniels would have 3 or 4 years to implement his own structure with the caveat that total suckage will not be accepted. It seems certain that Mcdaniels won't get fired for a 7-9 year in 2010 or 2011, however a 2-14 in 2010 would be hard to survive and I think in 2011 that would get him fired.

Kaylore
06-11-2010, 06:07 PM
i like you, but i think most agree with the most reputable NFL news and updates guy, schefter....

That's probably b/c Bowlen, like myself, like how the team is headed.

However consider this hypothetical:

In a year we finish 4-12. Tebow never starts. Demaryius is injured all year. Alphonso is cut and Ayers rides the pine. The Broncos offense finishes in the bottom 25 and the defense finishes in the mid teens and the ST unit doesn't go anywhere. Cutler returns to the pro bowl representing a 10-6 Bears team to play against Marshall.

You want to tell me if that happened Bowlen would just "stay the course" and there wouldn't be the least bit of concern? Fortunately that's a worst case scenario (or for some around here like Colonelbeef and Jhiz, a best case) and incredibly unlikely to happen, at least not the whole thing. My point is circumstances change and so do opinions of leaders in those circumstances.

Everyone including Schefter also said Shanahan was "Coach for life" and he got fired a year before I would have done so myself, and I was pissed off. McDaniels needs to start winning or they will feel the heat.

NYBronco
06-11-2010, 06:09 PM
When did Scheffler become a big three?


:Broncos:

Scheffler as one of the "big three" is a joke. If anything Shanahan would be the first of the "big three" to be let go.

Archer81
06-11-2010, 06:41 PM
I listed 2-3 simply because half of those 8 have already played 1 yr. An offense is half the equation...those 3 equated to one of the best offenses in the game (ranked 2nd) in only their 3rd year.

Let's see if McD's offense can match it over the next 2yrs? I hope so.


The 2nd ranked offense that was 16th in scoring and did not get the team into the playoffs. Thats what matters. The playoffs, not regular season unit rankings...

:Broncos:

oubronco
06-11-2010, 06:45 PM
He's signing his tender Monday.

WooHoo

broncosteven
06-11-2010, 06:47 PM
That's probably b/c Bowlen, like myself, like how the team is headed.

However consider this hypothetical:

In a year we finish 4-12. Tebow never starts. Demaryius is injured all year. Alphonso is cut and Ayers rides the pine. The Broncos offense finishes in the bottom 25 and the defense finishes in the mid teens and the ST unit doesn't go anywhere. Cutler returns to the pro bowl representing a 10-6 Bears team to play against Marshall.

You want to tell me if that happened Bowlen would just "stay the course" and there wouldn't be the least bit of concern? Fortunately that's a worst case scenario (or for some around here like Colonelbeef and Jhiz, a best case) and incredibly unlikely to happen, at least not the whole thing. My point is circumstances change and so do opinions of leaders in those circumstances.

Everyone including Schefter also said Shanahan was "Coach for life" and he got fired a year before I would have done so myself, and I was pissed off. McDaniels needs to start winning or they will feel the heat.

Personally I think Bowlen knew with an extremely young HC he would have to give mCd an extra year or 2 on the traditional 3 year plan with the hope of getting a 7-10 year Dynasty with 3-4 Rings or SB appearances in return.

That said, depending on what is really happening/happened behind the closed doors in dove valley I could see him dump mCd after this year if: the last 2 years worth of draft picks fail to pan out, the QB position becomes another sour distraction/carousel, the D regresses, and they start stong and slide down the stretch.

I really think the only way that Bowlen lets mCd go early is if he is not patient enough or he doesn't think the time mCd will need to learn is worth his investment in him.

There are a ton of question marks on this team, even more so than last year but I doubt that mCd gets let go this year. Here is to hoping we see a home playoff game this year!

hambone13
06-11-2010, 06:53 PM
The 2nd ranked offense that was 16th in scoring and did not get the team into the playoffs. Thats what matters. The playoffs, not regular season unit rankings...

:Broncos:

However, considering that McD is sold as an offensive guru he didn't improve a thing. The D got better under another coordinator and he's not here this year either. All the gory details that have been rehashed numerous times and not worth addressing again, don't change those facts. Most people recognize that talent is necessary to win, make the playoffs and have a shot at the SB. I too hope the direction we're headed is the right path but am skeptical at this point. There are no facts to believe otherwise at this point. All we have is perception and optimism.

Archer81
06-11-2010, 07:11 PM
However, considering that McD is sold as an offensive guru he didn't improve a thing. The D got better under another coordinator and he's not here this year either. All the gory details that have been rehashed numerous times and not worth addressing again, don't change those facts. Most people recognize that talent is necessary to win, make the playoffs and have a shot at the SB. I too hope the direction we're headed is the right path but am skeptical at this point. There are no facts to believe otherwise at this point. All we have is perception and optimism.


Its delusional to believe the Shanahan teams from 2006-2008 were playoff worthy and so stuffed with talent that all they needed was that one missing player. We had a head coach that seemed to be more worried about offensive ranking then WINNING games. Hooray. The 2008 Broncos were 2nd in offense...that certainly guaranteed the Broncos a playoff spot.

The Broncos will be better off for getting rid of Cutler and Marshall. They did not want to be here, so why keep them? Jay can go be a 9 in Chicago and Marshall can slip on McDonalds bags and back hand his wife in Miami. These are headaches the team does not need with a new HC implementing his schemes.

As for Nolan...his defenses were shredded with regularity the last 10 weeks of the season. For a coach to be so renowned for fundemental defensive football his calls during the 2-8 stretch were terrible.

:Broncos:

gyldenlove
06-11-2010, 07:13 PM
That's probably b/c Bowlen, like myself, like how the team is headed.

However consider this hypothetical:

In a year we finish 4-12. Tebow never starts. Demaryius is injured all year. Alphonso is cut and Ayers rides the pine. The Broncos offense finishes in the bottom 25 and the defense finishes in the mid teens and the ST unit doesn't go anywhere. Cutler returns to the pro bowl representing a 10-6 Bears team to play against Marshall.

You want to tell me if that happened Bowlen would just "stay the course" and there wouldn't be the least bit of concern? Fortunately that's a worst case scenario (or for some around here like Colonelbeef and Jhiz, a best case) and incredibly unlikely to happen, at least not the whole thing. My point is circumstances change and so do opinions of leaders in those circumstances.

Everyone including Schefter also said Shanahan was "Coach for life" and he got fired a year before I would have done so myself, and I was pissed off. McDaniels needs to start winning or they will feel the heat.

If that scenario happens in 2010 I don't think Mcdaniels gets fired, but he will be on notice. The irony is that I think a disasterous 4-12 season followed by 8-8 would be enough to buy him a 4th year (which would be a lame duck year with his contract I believe).

However an 8-8 in 2010 followed by a 4-12 in 2011 would definitely end the Mcdaniels era.

Dedhed
06-11-2010, 07:26 PM
ESPN is DUMB

hambone13
06-11-2010, 07:28 PM
Its delusional to believe the Shanahan teams from 2006-2008 were playoff worthy and so stuffed with talent that all they needed was that one missing player. We had a head coach that seemed to be more worried about offensive ranking then WINNING games. Hooray. The 2008 Broncos were 2nd in offense...that certainly guaranteed the Broncos a playoff spot.

The Broncos will be better off for getting rid of Cutler and Marshall. They did not want to be here, so why keep them? Jay can go be a 9 in Chicago and Marshall can slip on McDonalds bags and back hand his wife in Miami. These are headaches the team does not need with a new HC implementing his schemes.

As for Nolan...his defenses were shredded with regularity the last 10 weeks of the season. For a coach to be so renowned for fundemental defensive football his calls during the 2-8 stretch were terrible.

:Broncos:

I'm not disputing the possibilities of where we're headed and am not going to get into the Cutler Marshall BS again because you will always focus on that as you have here. Hamrod has brought up plenty of notable statistical achievements to justify my point. Nolan is proven and he improved the defense with a lack of talent in a new system. His calls may very well have been poor but the defense was better overall, while that's not saying much considering how bad our D has sucked for ages. My point is the same. We have less proven talent in players and less proven competency at head coach and at offensive and defensive coordinator. We're on a dark road w/o any headlights, GPS or night vision goggles. We're flat out rebuilding and McD is on the hot seat because of it. The immaturity in the FO is terrifying. Many maverick moves combined with some, what seem to be, good decisions with personnel in free agency are all gambles at this point because there is no history of success. We do however, have a one year history of mediocrity and arguable management decisions.

crush17
06-11-2010, 08:59 PM
I want the last 30 seconds I spent reading that trash back.

tsiguy96
06-11-2010, 09:49 PM
Personally I think Bowlen knew with an extremely young HC he would have to give mCd an extra year or 2 on the traditional 3 year plan with the hope of getting a 7-10 year Dynasty with 3-4 Rings or SB appearances in return.

That said, depending on what is really happening/happened behind the closed doors in dove valley I could see him dump mCd after this year if: the last 2 years worth of draft picks fail to pan out, the QB position becomes another sour distraction/carousel, the D regresses, and they start stong and slide down the stretch.

I really think the only way that Bowlen lets mCd go early is if he is not patient enough or he doesn't think the time mCd will need to learn is worth his investment in him.

There are a ton of question marks on this team, even more so than last year but I doubt that mCd gets let go this year. Here is to hoping we see a home playoff game this year!

more question marks than last year? youre kidding yourself, every single thing was a question mark last year, then mcdaniels showed he has real potential as a coach and GM.

and its hard not to agree that the defense sucked the last several weeks, blitzing stopped completely, couple of denver reporters said because it was getting exposed, but guess what, that blitzing is also what won us 6 games. nolans defense was reverting to his typical read and react, mcdaniels wanted an attacking defense, hence the philosophical difference in opinion between the two and why they parted ways.

watermock
06-11-2010, 09:53 PM
Scheffler as one of the "big three" is a joke. If anything Shanahan would be the first of the "big three" to be let go.

Shanahan expected at least 1 back to fill that void. by the end of the season, and Hillis produced but was injured.

Cutler was on his back as well a horrible defense.

Now, McBeavis has torn the team to virtual expansion level, despite mutiple high draft choices.

Los Broncos
06-11-2010, 09:58 PM
Why do the Denver post writers suck so much?

Lack of oxygen.

Hamrob
06-11-2010, 10:47 PM
Personally, I think we're an improved football team with a weaker schedule then last year. I really do think we have a lot of talent. But, with young talent and Free Agents comes question marks.

Can Moreno break out? Do we have enough quality backs in the stable to make it through the season? Can Ayers turn into a player worth the #18 pick? Can Thomas/Decker/Royal be good enough to replace Marshall's production? Can the 3 FA defensive lineman improve a very poor d-line? Can our offensive line with 2 injured tackles and 2 new rookie interior lineman play at a high level? Can whoever wins the QB battle play better than Orton did last year? Can an aging secondary hold up throughout a long season?

I'm sure there are more than the above...but, there we have it. There are plenty of question marks. I really think we can be good, but can we sustain it through the full season? Will there be a Qb controversy that divides the locker room?

I think if McD coaches as he should, we will go 10-6 (maybe 11-5) and make the playoffs. This is his team now...another 8-8 season will not sit well with PB or us fans....it's time to **** or get off the pot for McD! I think it's 60-40 in his favor right now.

Archer81
06-11-2010, 11:23 PM
Shanahan expected at least 1 back to fill that void. by the end of the season, and Hillis produced but was injured.

Cutler was on his back as well a horrible defense.

Now, McBeavis has torn the team to virtual expansion level, despite mutiple high draft choices.


This argument is so 2009.


:Broncos:

barryr
06-11-2010, 11:33 PM
Scheffler can be part of a big 3 in terms of busts, but for success of a team? Since when? He is so overrated, it's beyond ridiculous. I can only imagine what his fandom would be like if he actually did anything to deserve the praise he gets.

colonelbeef
06-12-2010, 02:33 AM
The big 3 who got us to the playoffs all those seasons.... oh wait.

I don't get this point of view.

They played all of 2 seasons together. If it was up to stupid people like you, Peyton Manning/Dallas Clark/Marvin Harrison would have been broken up after two years as well.

You don't make definitive judgment calls after 2 years of play between 25 year old players.

strafen
06-12-2010, 07:36 AM
I don't get this point of view.

They played all of 2 seasons together. If it was up to stupid people like you, Peyton Manning/Dallas Clark/Marvin Harrison would have been broken up after two years as well.

You don't make definitive judgment calls after 2 years of play between 25 year old players.

Yup. Scheffler was part of the big 3.
He was an intricate part of the 2008 offense which was one of the best offenses we've had in a long time.
Scheffler wasn't drafted by his blocking abilities, he is a catching TE. Not that I need to remind anybody of that, I'm juat tired of hearing people here play stupid.
No. We didn't make the play-offs with that offense. Not whn you have a bottom of the barrel defense.

We didn't make the play-offs last year with a top-ten defense!
Wait!
It was our offense that wasn't that much worse than the 2008 offense, right?

broncosteven
06-12-2010, 12:16 PM
more question marks than last year? youre kidding yourself, every single thing was a question mark last year, then mcdaniels showed he has real potential as a coach and GM.

and its hard not to agree that the defense sucked the last several weeks, blitzing stopped completely, couple of denver reporters said because it was getting exposed, but guess what, that blitzing is also what won us 6 games. nolans defense was reverting to his typical read and react, mcdaniels wanted an attacking defense, hence the philosophical difference in opinion between the two and why they parted ways.

We didn't know what we would get from mCd to start last year and we still don't know what to expect? sure he is capable of coaching for a 6 game winning streak but he is also capable of 2 - 4 game losing streaks in one season. We still don't know what we have with mCd.

I think the Tebow issue added more questions than solidified anything. We could be running more Wild Horse type formations than traditional formations. Our DC is a 1st time DC, 2 OL interior jobs need to be won, we need someone to cover Marshall's production.

This year should show a lot about the HC and the team he built.

Archer81
06-12-2010, 12:20 PM
Yup. Scheffler was part of the big 3.
He was an intricate part of the 2008 offense which was one of the best offenses we've had in a long time.
Scheffler wasn't drafted by his blocking abilities, he is a catching TE. Not that I need to remind anybody of that, I'm juat tired of hearing people here play stupid.
No. We didn't make the play-offs with that offense. Not whn you have a bottom of the barrel defense.

We didn't make the play-offs last year with a top-ten defense!
Wait!
It was our offense that wasn't that much worse than the 2008 offense, right?


Wrong.

You might as well as stayed with Dragster. Its not like changing your screen name changed the quality of your posts.

:Broncos:

kamakazi_kal
06-12-2010, 02:29 PM
OMG it's not a fluff piece they must all be stupid hacks who know nothing of football.

WyoLaw
06-12-2010, 03:04 PM
We might lose a few games this year but we wont have a b**** at QB gurning, a WR constantly yapping about his wallet and a TE (who still cant ****ing block) crying cos he isn't on the field every play.

**** all 3, good riddance, goodbye, I couldn't give a **** if you ever do anything in this league in another uniform. If your team's playing and I have to watch I'm hoping your opponent smacks those tears from your eyes.

Couldn't agree more. I'll never root for those guys. Great post.