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crush17
06-10-2010, 02:30 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=10169

By Gabe Hiatt
DenverBroncos.com

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Perhaps the most important quality in a cornerback is selective amnesia, the ability to immediately forgive yourself for your mistakes on the previous play, game, or even season. It's the ability to dissolve the pain and retain the lessons learned.

Alphonso Smith's rookie experience was an exercise in selective amnesia.

Smith was a Demon Deacon dynamo at Wake Forest, dissecting offenses from the point-of-view of a former quarterback. Smith acted as the Deac's defensive Swiss Army Knife -- he had all the tools. When he wasn't intercepting quarterbacks he was sacking them. When he wasn't blocking kicks he was returning them.

Amassing 21 picks as an undergrad, Smith nabbed the 10th most interceptions in the history of college football and the most in the history of the ACC.

He wanted to step into the NFL as the same player who crafted a legendary collegiate resume. Instead he struggled to adapt. The reality of pro football put Smith through the wringer.

"I have no room for excuses," Smith said. "I just wasn't good enough. Flat out, just the bottom line, I wasn't good enough. I wasn't good enough mentally (or) physically."

Most rookies aren't, but Smith holds himself to higher standards.

"Being hurt and not playing as well, not being a vital guy in the special teams game, not being able to help the guys on defense, that's really frustrating as a player," Smith said. "As competitive as I am, of course I got a little frustrated and kind of lost confidence."

At times last season the Broncos played Ty Law and Tony Carter ahead of Smith at the nickel spot. Now Smith is doing everything he can to turn his rookie disappointments into lessons learned.

"I had 16 games to look at, actually 20 games to look at if you're including preseason," Smith said. "I had all of those games to look at to try and figure out what the NFL is about and what an NFL offense is like."

Observation is the key to Smith's development. He's spending extra time in meetings with his position coaches and peppering his older teammates with questions.

One asset that speaks to Smith is the wealth of experience in the starting secondary. Champ Bailey, Brian Dawkins, Renaldo Hill, and Andre' Goodman boast 42 years of NFL experience between them.

"We talked a lot last year, but he can actually learn more by watching us do it the right way," Goodman said. "The biggest thing he has to understand is the improvement he has to make from year one to year two. They kind of give you your rookie year to learn. The game is a lot faster and it's a different game. It's definitely not the same as the college game. He has to understand there is no leeway in year two. You're not a rookie anymore."

If anyone can sympathize with Smith, it's Goodman. Fresh off a marquee season in which he led the Broncos with five interceptions, the veteran corner recalled his own rookie struggles.

"Honestly, I think my experience was very similar because in my mind I felt like I was going fast and all the veterans were always like, 'You can go faster.' It's kind of like, 'Well how much faster can I go?'" Goodman said. "Everything about you should be fast. Your teammates say you always have one more step than you think you have. We see it, and it's a matter of helping him understand it."

Goodman credits his old Detroit Lions teammates Todd Lyght and Eric Davis for forcing him into full speed not just on Sundays, but in every drill and practice.

According to Goodman the whole secondary has a responsibility to bring Smith along at the same pace. Goodman points to Bailey as a prime example.

"Well I think if you're going to try and emulate anyone in the game, that's the perfect guy," Goodman said. "I think what (Smith) needs to pick up from him -- and what I've picked up from him -- is how hungry he still is. For a guy that's made the Pro Bowl as many times as he has, you walk out to the practice field and see him practicing like he's a young guy."

Bailey for one sees the upside in Smith.

"He's grown a lot," Bailey said. "I think he understands what we expect from him."

While Smith will admit he still has his "rookie moments," in OTAs he's finding that professional speed, snaring interceptions and batting down passes from hashmark to hashmark.

He's been running as the first-team nickel corner in practice, but the offseason is always a threat. Veteran defensive back Nate Jones signed to compete with Smith, and rookies Perrish Cox and Syd'Quan Thompson are also fighting for playing time.

The whispers of Smith's doubters are still fresh in his ears, questioning his value and further motivating him to excel.

"Everyone is now looking at you. Everyone is questioning your position and why you were picked so high," Smith said. "For me personally, I do have a chip on my shoulder and I'm just trying to work and get better. Hopefully I can be a better football player for this team."

Chris
06-10-2010, 02:43 PM
We'll see... pulling for him.

Los Broncos
06-10-2010, 02:44 PM
I'll believe it when I see it, hopefully he works out.

JCMElway
06-10-2010, 02:48 PM
Ah, off season fluff pieces.

Dr. Broncenstein
06-10-2010, 02:52 PM
Translation: he is going to have quite a fight on his hands just to make the roster.

worm
06-10-2010, 02:59 PM
http://thedailybite.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/kool-aid-man.jpg

Vegas_Bronco
06-10-2010, 03:00 PM
My prediction: Will be the best nickelback to ever have worn a Broncos Uniform.

Doggcow
06-10-2010, 03:00 PM
Alphonso Smith - Growing

Thank :tebow:

crush17
06-10-2010, 03:12 PM
Ah, off season fluff pieces.

exactly. but, you know, something to read.

Kaylore
06-10-2010, 03:26 PM
I hope so. I liked him coming out of the draft and if all we gave up for him was the second round pick that we drafted him at I'd be ok. It's not Smith's fault we traded a first for him and it's a bit unfair to judge him like one. He's a smallish corner that plays very physically and has good instincts. Hopefull this season with a better defensive line he can really grow.

BroncoInferno
06-10-2010, 03:40 PM
Translation: he is going to have quite a fight on his hands just to make the roster.

Please. He'll be on the roster. Even if he continued to struggle, they aren't going to give up on him after one season when they invested a 1st in him. It is not unusual at all for rookies to struggle, as has been pointed out time and again, so I can't understand why folks are already shuffling him into the bust category. He was a terrific college player and a hard worker, so I'm certainly not counting him out at this point.

Dr. Broncenstein
06-10-2010, 03:47 PM
Please. He'll be on the roster. Even if he continued to struggle, they aren't going to give up on him after one season when they invested a 1st in him. It is not unusual at all for rookies to struggle, as has been pointed out time and again, so I can't understand why folks are already shuffling him into the bust category. He was a terrific college player and a hard worker, so I'm certainly not counting him out at this point.

Tony Carter was the better player in limited playing time last year. Then we sign Jones and draft Cox / Thompson. He could easily be #5 on the depth chart, without even knowing how Cox and Thompson pan out. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to think Smith is on the bubble.

Play2win
06-10-2010, 03:49 PM
I would love to see him take advantage of the opportunity, stand up to the challenge, excel at his position, and become a key piece of the Denver Defense for years to come.

USMCBladerunner
06-10-2010, 03:54 PM
I didn't see anything that indicated that he's growing as aplayer, only that he recognizes that he sucked. Hopefully that translates into change for the better.

Boss Man
06-10-2010, 04:12 PM
Tony Carter was the better player in limited playing time last year. Then we sign Jones and draft Cox / Thompson. He could easily be #5 on the depth chart, without even knowing how Cox and Thompson pan out. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to think Smith is on the bubble.

thats just plain ***in foolish to think that there is even a possibility smith doesnt make this team...it is not very often the year after you trade a first round pick for a player you cut him....especially one with as much potential as smith

Dr. Broncenstein
06-10-2010, 04:19 PM
thats just plain ***in foolish to think that there is even a possibility smith doesnt make this team...it is not very often the year after you trade a first round pick for a player you cut him....especially one with as much potential as smith

Foolish is expectng some sort of contribution from Smith based soley upon what was given up to draft him.

baja
06-10-2010, 04:48 PM
Foolish is expectng some sort of contribution from Smith based soley upon what was given up to draft him.

Foolish is thinking you would know rather Smith will be a player or not.

footstepsfrom#27
06-10-2010, 05:04 PM
In two years he and Perrish are probably our two starting CB's if he starts to come on.

pdaddy
06-10-2010, 05:38 PM
My prediction: Will be the best nickelback to ever have worn a Broncos Uniform.

I think part of the problem is he shouldn't be a nickelback at all. He's better suited to be playing on the outside, and with Champ and Goodman out there, there's no place for the Fonz.

Vegas_Bronco
06-10-2010, 06:05 PM
I think part of the problem is he shouldn't be a nickelback at all. He's better suited to be playing on the outside, and with Champ and Goodman out there, there's no place for the Fonz.

The fact that both Champ and Andre were healthy for nearly the entire season last year was pretty amazing. Although I'd hate to see either one injured, I don't see a full healthy season happening again for the both of them. Fonz must know it takes 2-3 seasons to really get each WR down, study personnel film, and get those feet and hips rolling the right way. I'm sure he'll make some noise this season.

cmhargrove
06-10-2010, 06:34 PM
Instead of growing by "leaps and bounds," Why can't we get him to grow by "pounds and inches?"

Is that too much to ask?

snowspot66
06-10-2010, 06:41 PM
Translation: he is going to have quite a fight on his hands just to make the roster.

Usually agree with you but it's pretty damned rare to see a second round pick cut after a year. Considering we used a first round pick to get that second round pick he'll be around for another two years at least. Hell, we still have Jarvis Moss on the roster.

ColoradoDarin
06-10-2010, 06:58 PM
Usually agree with you but it's pretty damned rare to see a second round pick cut after a year. Considering we used a first round pick to get that second round pick he'll be around for another two years at least. Hell, we still have Jarvis Moss on the roster.

I'm going to have to award you the point and note this - he would have the point, if we were the raiders.

Dr. Broncenstein
06-10-2010, 07:50 PM
Foolish is thinking you would know rather Smith will be a player or not.

Foolish is also putting words in another's mouth that were never said.

baja
06-10-2010, 07:54 PM
Foolish is also putting words in another's mouth that were never said.

How about "If the shoe fits..."

Never said I was directing that comment toward you

DB_champ24
06-10-2010, 08:20 PM
Translation: he is going to have quite a fight on his hands just to make the roster.

Jeez, please keep your dumb comment to yourself.

Dr. Broncenstein
06-10-2010, 08:38 PM
Jeez, please keep your dumb comment to yourself.

The best argument up to this point has been... and I'm paraphrasing.. "Smith won't be cut even if he sucks because of his draft status." I can see some validity to that point. I don't agree. I think there will be significant competition for the last 3-4 spots behind Bailey and Goodman... and the best 5-6 corners make the team. Based on Smith's play last year, he may have a hard time making the final cut. Woops... did I just defy your request?

baja
06-10-2010, 08:50 PM
The best argument up to this point has been... and I'm paraphrasing.. "Smith won't be cut even if he sucks because of his draft status." I can see some validity to that point. I don't agree. I think there will be significant competition for the last 3-4 spots behind Bailey and Goodman... and the best 5-6 corners make the team. Based on Smith's play last year, he may have a hard time making the final cut. Woops... did I just defy your request?

Josh can't afford to fail with Smith this season the Fonz will make the team on that alone.

Dr. Broncenstein
06-10-2010, 09:01 PM
Josh can't afford to fail with Smith this season the Fonz will make the team on that alone.

Ahh... finally getting down to the real point.

So hypothetically speaking: even if Smith is obviously the seventh best corner in training camp, he makes the team anyway in order to save face over the Cutler fiasco? I thought Cutler was addition my subtraction. Why in the world should McD's fate be tied to the success or failure of Smth?

baja
06-10-2010, 09:26 PM
Ahh... finally getting down to the real point.

So hypothetically speaking: even if Smith is obviously the seventh best corner in training camp, he makes the team anyway in order to save face over the Cutler fiasco? I thought Cutler was addition my subtraction. Why in the world should McD's fate be tied to the success or failure of Smth?

It would potently be the straw that broke the camel's back on the tiny honeymoon Josh now has with the fans and so easy to avoid the controversy just keep Smith for another year until Josh has the team and the fans more firmly in hand ... or not.

That being said I think Smith will emerge as the nickel back and be a good one too.

DB_champ24
06-10-2010, 10:09 PM
The best argument up to this point has been... and I'm paraphrasing.. "Smith won't be cut even if he sucks because of his draft status." I can see some validity to that point. I don't agree. I think there will be significant competition for the last 3-4 spots behind Bailey and Goodman... and the best 5-6 corners make the team. Based on Smith's play last year, he may have a hard time making the final cut. Woops... did I just defy your request?


No not at all, it's just your weird opinion, being cut after 1 season?!?! In reality it's very ridiculous to judge a guy off of 1 season, especially his rookie season. Mcdaniels even said he expected these players (Last years draft picks) to make an impact in their 2nd years. Corner is a very difficult position to play and I will agree Smith played poorly last season but he will not be cut this year.

epicSocialism4tw
06-10-2010, 10:19 PM
Translation: he is going to have quite a fight on his hands just to make the roster.

Yeah, the veterans kept talking about how he needs to start putting it together now...saying that his excuses dont fly this season.

listopencil
06-10-2010, 10:26 PM
Yeah.http://www.bostonfoodandwhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/fluff01.jpg

SouthStndJunkie
06-10-2010, 11:21 PM
Yeah.http://www.bostonfoodandwhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/fluff01.jpg

Next up on the offseason fluff queue:

"Jarvis Moss - Dedicated and Focused in 2010."

Borks147
06-10-2010, 11:25 PM
Next up on the offseason fluff queue:

"Jarvis Moss - Dedicated and Focused in 2010."

i think there was a 2009 edition of those right before his retirement rumor broke...

24champ
06-10-2010, 11:35 PM
Next up on the offseason fluff queue:

"Jarvis Moss - Dedicated and Focused in 2010."

And after that will be "Knowshon Moreno- Promises to run for 2k yards this season"

SoCalBronco
06-11-2010, 12:11 AM
Why in the world should McD's fate be tied to the success or failure of Smth?


It's not so much his fate......his fate depends on a number of factors...ultimately its wins and losses, not any single decision or talent evaluation.

However, cutting Smith after one year would reflect very poorly on the
"value of draft picks be damned.....we'll do whatever it takes to get our guy" theory of drafting that they have apparently subscribed to.

UberBroncoMan
06-11-2010, 12:41 AM
Instead of growing by "leaps and bounds," Why can't we get him to grow by "pounds and inches?"

Is that too much to ask?

Damn you good sir!

I was hoping no one said anything like that so I could... but I will anyway.

Does this mean he's not 5'9 anymore?

FireFly
06-11-2010, 01:19 AM
In two years he and Perrish are probably our two starting CB's if he starts to come on.

Smith will never be our starting corner. You can take that to the bank. He might be a great nickel corner, but he won't be a great No.1 or 2.

He lacks the size. Plain and simple.

ZONA
06-11-2010, 01:21 AM
We'll see if he's grown alot when training camp comes. OTA's don't give me much confidence in much of anything besides dudes are working out and learning the playbooks.

montrose
06-11-2010, 01:47 AM
Smith will never be our starting corner. You can take that to the bank. He might be a great nickel corner, but he won't be a great No.1 or 2.

He lacks the size. Plain and simple.

A.Smith, Height: 5-9 Weight: 190
Pro Bowl CBs
A.Winfield, Height: 5-9 Weight: 180
R.Barber, Height: 5-10 Weight: 184
C.Finnegan, Height: 5-10 Weight: 188
A.Samuel, Height: 5-10 Weight: 185

fontaine
06-11-2010, 02:12 AM
The best argument up to this point has been... and I'm paraphrasing.. "Smith won't be cut even if he sucks because of his draft status." I can see some validity to that point. I don't agree. I think there will be significant competition for the last 3-4 spots behind Bailey and Goodman... and the best 5-6 corners make the team. Based on Smith's play last year, he may have a hard time making the final cut.

I completely agree. Brandster being cut after one year pretty much proves that if there's better talent on the roster, you're going to be out the door.

In hindsight it was a mistake to give up so much for the guy but it won't be a mistake when he's cut if he isn't one of the top 6 corners in the league.

FireFly
06-11-2010, 02:15 AM
A.Smith, Height: 5-9 Weight: 190
Pro Bowl CBs
A.Winfield, Height: 5-9 Weight: 180
R.Barber, Height: 5-10 Weight: 184
C.Finnegan, Height: 5-10 Weight: 188
A.Samuel, Height: 5-10 Weight: 185

A fair point. But would you agree that these were the exception to the rule? That most top corners have more size? That while it is possible, his relative lack of size puts him at a distinct disadvantage? That the laws of probability are stacked against him?

Corner is a difficult position to play. Most players never cut it. So not only does he have to be in the statistical minority of players that make it as one of the top 64 corners in the country - an unlikely event in any case - he also has to do it DESPITE his size, making it even more unlikely.

I would say that when we have to go looking for examples like this we're talking about unlikely events.

Drek
06-11-2010, 03:54 AM
A fair point. But would you agree that these were the exception to the rule? That most top corners have more size? That while it is possible, his relative lack of size puts him at a distinct disadvantage? That the laws of probability are stacked against him?

Corner is a difficult position to play. Most players never cut it. So not only does he have to be in the statistical minority of players that make it as one of the top 64 corners in the country - an unlikely event in any case - he also has to do it DESPITE his size, making it even more unlikely.

I would say that when we have to go looking for examples like this we're talking about unlikely events.

6' or taller corners are the exception to the rule, not guys 5'9" to 5'11".

In 2010 two of the four starting corners in the pro-bowl where under 6'.

In 2009 5 of 8 CBs on the roster where under 6'.

In 2008 3 of the 6 on the roster where under 6'.

In 2007 4 of the 7 where under 6'.

I could go on, but needless to say corners under 6' are the norm, both in the middle tiers and at the highest level. You have a few exceptional 6' plus guys like Champ, Asomugha, and Charles Woodson. They make the pro-bowl every year and account for the majority of guys in the above ratio who where over 5'11". But the rotating cast around them in the pro-bowl and some of the newer fixtures (like Darrelle Revis) are not 6' tall.

Dr. Broncenstein
06-11-2010, 05:16 AM
No not at all, it's just your weird opinion, being cut after 1 season?!?! In reality it's very ridiculous to judge a guy off of 1 season, especially his rookie season. Mcdaniels even said he expected these players (Last years draft picks) to make an impact in their 2nd years. Corner is a very difficult position to play and I will agree Smith played poorly last season but he will not be cut this year.

I'm pretty sure you asked me not to post if you didn't agree with my point. What happened to Brandstatter then, if all of last years picks should be making their impact in year 2? Didn't we invest in multiple picks on this guy, just to cast him off before training camp? Quarterback is the toughest position to learn.. shouldn't we have given him some more time?

fontaine
06-11-2010, 05:25 AM
I'm pretty sure you asked me not to post if you didn't agree with my point. What happened to Brandstatter then, if all of last years picks should be making their impact in year 2? Didn't we invest in multiple picks on this guy, just to cast him off before training camp? Quarterback is the toughest position to learn.. shouldn't we have given him some more time?

Brandster just got TeQuinn'ed.

It will really be interesting to see in a couple of years how these guys panned out given Brandster got dumped just to give the other two more reps.

dsmoot
06-11-2010, 07:03 AM
I didn't see anything that indicated that he's growing as aplayer, only that he recognizes that he sucked. Hopefully that translates into change for the better.

What did you expect him or anyone else to say. The proof is what he does in training camp and in preseason games at full speed with pads. The game is not about potential.

dsmoot
06-11-2010, 07:04 AM
Smith will never be our starting corner. You can take that to the bank. He might be a great nickel corner, but he won't be a great No.1 or 2.

He lacks the size. Plain and simple.

Like Darrel Green with the Redskins.

bronco militia
06-11-2010, 07:08 AM
that was flufftastic!

TonyR
06-11-2010, 07:21 AM
I completely agree. Brandster being cut after one year pretty much proves that if there's better talent on the roster, you're going to be out the door.

I understand what you're saying but I think the situations are very different. Brandstater was a late round project pick and the Broncos upgraded the backup (and possibly starting) QB position with Quinn and then drafted Tebow in the 1st round. There just wasn't room for Brandstater. They'll find room on the roster for a CB drafted in the first round last year. I think he's a near lock to make the team this year.

Rabb
06-11-2010, 07:24 AM
I understand what you're saying but I think the situations are very different. Brandstater was a late round project pick and the Broncos upgraded the backup (and possibly starting) QB position with Quinn and then drafted Tebow in the 1st round. There just wasn't room for Brandstater. They'll find room on the roster for a CB drafted in the first round last year. I think he's a near lock to make the team this year.

nailed it

and thinking that any of the draft picks or free agent signings will somehow put him on the bubble all of the sudden is crazy, forget where he was picked and all that...we need to maintain depth at the position

or was everyone just waiting on the edge of their seat with excitement for the next Ty Law type signing to patch the secondary?

montrose
06-11-2010, 07:26 AM
A fair point. But would you agree that these were the exception to the rule? That most top corners have more size? That while it is possible, his relative lack of size puts him at a distinct disadvantage? That the laws of probability are stacked against him?

Corner is a difficult position to play. Most players never cut it. So not only does he have to be in the statistical minority of players that make it as one of the top 64 corners in the country - an unlikely event in any case - he also has to do it DESPITE his size, making it even more unlikely.

I would say that when we have to go looking for examples like this we're talking about unlikely events.

Drek spelled a lot of this out too, he's not greatly undersized for the position - DWill would've fit greatly undersized. I actually think Smith projects far better as an outside, starting CB than a nickelback. His skillset is that of one than plays awesome, aggressive man-to-man defense while the NB spot calls on a guy who can guard option-routes in zone coverage. CB is a tough spot to develop at, but I don't think his size will deter him. In fact, I don't look at it as if guys like Winfield and Samuel are great in spite of their size but rather Nnamdi and Woodson are bigger for their position. As Drek pointed out, more of the good CBs are closer to Smith's size than Nnamdi's. Now the prototype for the position could change in the future, like it is at WR a bit., but for right now I don't even view Smith as undersized for a CB.

Drek
06-11-2010, 07:44 AM
As Drek pointed out, more of the good CBs are closer to Smith's size than Nnamdi's. Now the prototype for the position could change in the future, like it is at WR a bit., but for right now I don't even view Smith as undersized for a CB.

I personally think you can make a good argument against taller CBs because they lack the quick hips that you need to react and follow a WR tightly.

That is why only rare physical talents like Woodson, Bailey, and Nnamdi are 6'+ and successful. Meanwhile 6'2" Antonio Cromartie had a few great games where he kept guessing right and making big plays, but a lot more often he just didn't have the quickness and agility for his frame to stick on a WR running a quality route.

Lenny Walls is a great example of this. Tall guy, great 40 speed and overall athleticism. But his agility and quickness was not elite enough to snap a 6'4" frame around when a WR threw a hard cut at him.

theAPAOps5
06-11-2010, 07:45 AM
Translation: he is going to have quite a fight on his hands just to make the roster.

Um, no

fontaine
06-11-2010, 08:15 AM
I understand what you're saying but I think the situations are very different. Brandstater was a late round project pick and the Broncos upgraded the backup (and possibly starting) QB position with Quinn and then drafted Tebow in the 1st round. There just wasn't room for Brandstater. They'll find room on the roster for a CB drafted in the first round last year. I think he's a near lock to make the team this year.

I'm pretty sure he makes the team as well. A bigger problem would be if he makes the roster but not as the nickel CB.

Kaylore
06-11-2010, 10:11 AM
I think part of the problem is he shouldn't be a nickelback at all. He's better suited to be playing on the outside, and with Champ and Goodman out there, there's no place for the Fonz.

This.

Tom G
06-11-2010, 11:43 AM
Like Darrel Green with the Redskins.

Darrel was 5-8 but he was the fastest player in the NFL, year in, year out (was clocked at 4.3 late in his career, pushing 40 at the time).

He fit the generalization, "He may not be very big, but he sure is fast."

Smith was clocked at 4.52 at his combine.

He fits the generalization, "He may not be very big, but he sure is slow". (for a CB).

I wish him well, but I'm pessimistic. And of course, like most everybody here, I hated the trade.

bronco militia
06-11-2010, 11:44 AM
Darrel was 5-8 but he was the fastest player in the NFL, year in, year out (was clocked at 4.3 late in his career, pushing 40 at the time).

He fit the generalization, "He may not be very big, but he sure is fast."

Smith was clocked at 4.52 at his combine.

He fits the generalization, "He may not be very big, but he sure is slow". (for a CB).

I wish him well, but I'm pessimistic. And of course, like most everybody here, I hated the trade.

Ha! :strong:

DB_champ24
06-11-2010, 02:25 PM
I'm pretty sure you asked me not to post if you didn't agree with my point. What happened to Brandstatter then, if all of last years picks should be making their impact in year 2? Didn't we invest in multiple picks on this guy, just to cast him off before training camp? Quarterback is the toughest position to learn.. shouldn't we have given him some more time?

Are you really comparing a 6th round draft pick to a high 2nd round pick??? I don't remember exactly what was given up for Brand, but a 1st was given up for Smith, which is on a whole other level of value. He's not going to be cut this season. Smith can at least play special teams and like someone else said we got Quinn, a young player who is ahead of Brand and invested a lot in tebow.

barryr
06-11-2010, 10:36 PM
If Smith had a bad attitude, then his job security would be an question for sure, but other than that, I think he's fine for now. Not all rookies do great and need more time to transition than others.

TheReverend
06-11-2010, 11:02 PM
RE Thread Title:

If Alphonso Smith leaps/bounds into the air, he can jump up to what? 5'9?

colonelbeef
06-12-2010, 01:34 AM
Ah, off season fluff pieces.

bingo

FireFly
06-12-2010, 01:45 AM
Well I guess you guys told me!

haha

Now hopefully he proves me wrong as well :)

azbroncfan
06-12-2010, 05:56 AM
He made a huge leap from roster cutline to the fifth CB.

Los Broncos
06-12-2010, 01:16 PM
This taken from todays pratice...

On Brady Quinn’s first snap of 7-on-7 drills, he pump faked and showed off his arm strength with a bomb toward Willis. However, Alphonso Smith recovered in time to knock the ball out of the second-year receiver’s grasp more than 40 yards down field.

Paladin
06-12-2010, 02:03 PM
So the little tyke's got game, eh?

Imagine that!!

TheReverend
06-12-2010, 05:28 PM
This taken from todays pratice...

On Brady Quinn’s first snap of 7-on-7 drills, he pump faked and showed off his arm strength with a bomb toward Willis. However, Alphonso Smith recovered in time to knock the ball out of the second-year receiver’s grasp more than 40 yards down field.

So the little tyke's got game, eh?

Imagine that!!

Imagine that indeed.

Who knew that after just one year in the system, he'd be able to cover a guy that doesn't have a prayer of making the team. (Matthew Willis - In b4 everyone who reads that name says "Who?")

Cito Pelon
06-13-2010, 09:33 AM
For accuracy sake, I have to mention that the print interview was actually taken from a TV interview. Alphonso was interviewed by local TV media, and that's where this print excerpt came from. The odd thing is, he had his helmet on with the dark faceshield through the whole TV interview. He was relaxed enough to have his chinstrap unbuckled, though.

Dude is the Darth Vader of the secondary. May The Force be with him.

Kidding aside, it's a little weird for a player to grant a TV interview and keep his helmet on with a dark faceshield through the whole interview.

WolfpackGuy
06-13-2010, 09:41 AM
He's definitely worth Earl Thomas...

*WARHORSE*
06-13-2010, 10:04 AM
Champ Bailey is in the last year of his contract.

Theres a good chance he will not be with us next year, and we will get nothing in return.

Unless Champ is willing to take less money............which I dont see him doing..........then he will be gone.

Id like to resign him at a decent dollar amount and eventually move him to free safety.

That means, we're going to need some corners step up, and step up soon.


Smith has ability. If the game slows for him somewhat, he can be a different player this year.

Thats my hope, but we will soon find out come the first week in september and whether hes still on our roster.

p7superfly
06-15-2010, 04:54 PM
ahh... Finally getting down to the real point.

So hypothetically speaking: Even if smith is obviously the seventh best corner in training camp, he makes the team anyway in order to save face over the cutler fiasco? I thought cutler was addition my subtraction. Why in the world should mcd's fate be tied to the success or failure of smth?



bingo

The Moops
06-18-2010, 05:38 PM
Sure hope he gets it going . . . he was a tremendous college player and I applauded Denver for grabbing him, well, not for giving up a #1 pick for him. But the pick itself. . . . at least it wasn't two #1s for Steve Tensi.

bronco militia
08-15-2010, 09:54 PM
leaps and bounds!!!

Swedish Extrovert
08-15-2010, 10:09 PM
My prediction: Will be the best nickelback to ever have worn a Broncos Uniform.

I said in another post... he isn't big enough to seal off the edge or play the flat as a #1 or #2 corner. But he showed flashes last year, and has the smarts and skillset to be a very good #3 option covering the slot.

Edit - saying the "best nickelback to ever wear a Broncos uniform" really isn't saying much.

Broncoman13
08-15-2010, 10:20 PM
leaps and bounds!!!

Do you know what number Fonz is?

The MVPlaya
08-15-2010, 10:22 PM
Fonz didn't really do anything detrimental to the team today. When he was playing RCB, he wasn't challenged. He came up on a good tackle on T.O.

His issues really came in the run game and making tackles in those situations. But uh, I don't think Fonz is the only one with this problem at CB.

Broncoman13
08-15-2010, 10:25 PM
I said in another post... he isn't big enough to seal off the edge or play the flat as a #1 or #2 corner. But he showed flashes last year, and has the smarts and skillset to be a very good #3 option covering the slot.

Edit - saying the "best nickelback to ever wear a Broncos uniform" really isn't saying much.

He is an edge Corner. They keep trying to tap that Square peg into a round hole by putting him in the slot. Put Cox in the slot and start prepping Smitj to take the 1 or 2 when the time comes. We're wasting him trying to make him something he is not.

Broncoman13
08-15-2010, 10:26 PM
I am cracking up just thinking about how many people are commenting on how bad fonz is and still think he is #33

wolf754life
08-15-2010, 10:28 PM
he is not very good at tackling, he is not very good at man cover, he is ok in zone, but overall he is a bust, especially based on his draft position.

life goes on, but don't expect anything great from this guy.

SoCalBronco
08-15-2010, 10:29 PM
Hey Wolf, anything new that you are hearing from inside the organization?

Swedish Extrovert
08-15-2010, 10:34 PM
Wolf, Broncoman:

Smith will play nickel, and he'll play zone underneath, or a man-zone covering the man in the middle of the field.

Flat/edge corners have to a. be good at tackling. b. be relatively tall to defend streak routes in man coverage.

I'm 5'7'' and I was the fastest player on my HS team. I never started. I was a Free Safety, and mostly played as a nickel corner (or as gunner on special teams), because I wasn't tall enough to a good enough tackler to play the flat.

SoDak Bronco
08-16-2010, 05:15 AM
Wolf, Broncoman:

Smith will play nickel, and he'll play zone underneath, or a man-zone covering the man in the middle of the field.

Flat/edge corners have to a. be good at tackling. b. be relatively tall to defend streak routes in man coverage.

I'm 5'7'' and I was the fastest player on my HS team. I never started. I was a Free Safety, and mostly played as a nickel corner (or as gunner on special teams), because I wasn't tall enough to a good enough tackler to play the flat.

Darrell Green was pretty good at tackling and playing corner at 5"9. Just because you can't tackle doesn't mean anything about playing in the NFL LOL

The MVPlaya
08-16-2010, 05:32 AM
Darrell Green was pretty good at tackling and playing corner at 5"9. Just because you can't tackle doesn't mean anything about playing in the NFL LOL

Darrent Williams was also a good tackler and he was 5'8

Garcia Bronco
08-16-2010, 05:36 AM
It's obvious from last night he still needs work. Corner is a hard position.

broncogary
08-16-2010, 06:19 AM
I am cracking up just thinking about how many people are commenting on how bad fonz is and still think he is #33

How often can he change his number? :approve:

cmhargrove
08-16-2010, 06:41 AM
A. Alphonso still needs plenty of work. I was expecting him to "shoot out of the gates" this year, but that doesn't look like it will happen.
B. To be fair, our second team d-line didn't get much pressure on the qb. Even our starting corners will get burned if the qb consistently has 4-5 seconds to throw.

oubronco
08-16-2010, 06:59 AM
The fact that Jones is ahead of him is quite concerning

Ray Finkle
08-16-2010, 07:01 AM
The fact that Jones is ahead of him is quite concerning

1st preseason game....I thought Zo outplayed Jones....

CEH
08-16-2010, 07:09 AM
Smith is struggling and might not make it out of camp - Mike Kils beat writer for DPO. 8/16/2010

I agree he is in trouble.

Small and slow is not a way to go through your NFL life.
Maybe Josh can blame this pick on Nolan

Rabb
08-16-2010, 07:12 AM
1st preseason game....I thought Zo outplayed Jones....

I did also

although, the kid cannot tackle for ****

RaiderH8r
08-16-2010, 07:52 AM
How often can he change his number? :approve:

As often as it takes not to get cut.

He doesn't have a nose for the ball, he misses tackles and his coverage is shoddy. He was so bad last year we signed the Ghost of Ty Law's career to come in and play in what should have been his position. Fonzi should be making huge strides over last year and he isn't. He's around the pile but rarely in the pile. He misses more open field tackles than he makes and he isn't the ball hawking guy he was supposed to be. He needs to step it up this year.

That One Guy
08-16-2010, 08:00 AM
Next up on the offseason fluff queue:

"Jarvis Moss - Dedicated and Focused in 2010."

I just wanted to quote this as I remember that exact article from about 2 weeks ago. Good call, SSJ

outdoor_miner
08-16-2010, 08:02 AM
Fonzi should be making huge strides over last year and he isn't. He's around the pile but rarely in the pile. He misses more open field tackles than he makes and he isn't the ball hawking guy he was supposed to be. He needs to step it up this year.

You got all of this out of 1 preseason game where he was hardly targetted? How are you getting a read on his "ball hawking" skills from this game?

go_broncos
08-16-2010, 08:06 AM
Smith is a bust..Didn't see anything positive from him.Can't tackle and can't cover.
He will not be cut as he is a first round pick..He will get a chance for one more year.

Durango
08-16-2010, 08:11 AM
Smith is a bust..Didn't see anything positive from him.Can't tackle and can't cover.
He will not be cut as he is a first round pick..He will get a chance for one more year.

You forgot 'slow'. He seems to have pretty good ball awareness, but he doesn't have the speed to get to it. Awful, awful blunder by McDaniels, rivaling Moss , Toviessi, Nash and Middlebrooks in the Shanny tenure.

theAPAOps5
08-16-2010, 08:13 AM
I am cracking up just thinking about how many people are commenting on how bad fonz is and still think he is #33

I really wonder how many people do think that!

Kaylore
08-16-2010, 08:29 AM
He is an edge Corner. They keep trying to tap that Square peg into a round hole by putting him in the slot. Put Cox in the slot and start prepping Smitj to take the 1 or 2 when the time comes. We're wasting him trying to make him something he is not.

This. Phonz needs to play outside.

gyldenlove
08-16-2010, 08:29 AM
1st preseason game....I thought Zo outplayed Jones....

In all fairness though, I am pretty sure the mascot outplayed Jones, he looked pretty awful out there.

Kaylore
08-16-2010, 08:32 AM
Smith is a bust..Didn't see anything positive from him.Can't tackle and can't cover.
He will not be cut as he is a first round pick..He will get a chance for one more year.

Smith isn't a first round pick. And he wasn't bad yesterday.

Ray Finkle
08-16-2010, 08:32 AM
This. Phonz needs to play outside.

I agree....

Tombstone RJ
08-16-2010, 08:36 AM
You forgot 'slow'. He seems to have pretty good ball awareness, but he doesn't have the speed to get to it. Awful, awful blunder by McDaniels, rivaling Moss , Toviessi, Nash and Middlebrooks in the Shanny tenure.

#22 didn't have a horrible game, in fact, I think he had a pretty decent game. Its way too early to call him a "shanny bust" because that IS setting the bar real high for drafting futility.

bronco militia
08-16-2010, 08:39 AM
IMO you don't waist 1st and 2nd round pick on nickel/backup corner.

Ray Finkle
08-16-2010, 08:41 AM
IMO you don't waist 1st and 2nd round pick on nickel/backup corner.

it's been 1 season (where he injured his ankle) and now people are calling him a bust after the first preseason game?

If he was getting beat out to start at LCB or RCB by Walls or Herndon, you'd have a point. There are 2 pretty good CB's starting ahead of him.

Rabb
08-16-2010, 08:41 AM
IMO you don't waist 1st and 2nd round pick on nickel/backup corner.

I agree with your point, but it's not like they knew it would end up like this. It's also not as if Denver is the only team ever to miss on a pick, should this not work out.

At the time, it was a good value pick and honestly, we should all just get over it (not saying you specifically bm)

The MVPlaya
08-16-2010, 08:47 AM
IMO you don't waist 1st and 2nd round pick on nickel/backup corner.

It's hard to say when you're not in the room with them. I'm sure if you were along side in the staff, you'd agree with what they evaluated him upon.

Nickel corner might be more valuable then what meets the eye.

We'll see, they said they grade rookies on a 2 year basis, so we'll see how he pans out this year.

Kaylore
08-16-2010, 08:54 AM
IMO you don't waist 1st and 2nd round pick on nickel/backup corner.

They didn't draft him to play that position forever. They want him to start eventually. And why is everyone calling him a bust? Half the people here don't even know he wears 22. Its been one year and a pre-season game. Our second round corner gets more time than that to be called a bust.

TheProfessor
08-16-2010, 09:00 AM
I never understood this pick

PRBronco
08-16-2010, 09:02 AM
They didn't draft him to play that position forever. They want him to start eventually. And why is everyone calling him a bust? Half the people here don't even know he wears 22. Its been one year and a pre-season game. Our second round corner gets more time than that to be called a bust.

Bu7 t3h 14th ov3ra11 p1ck!!1!!!

Ray Finkle
08-16-2010, 09:03 AM
Bu7 t3h 14th ov3ra11 p1ck!!1!!!

it wasn't.....it was a future pick they traded....it happened to be the 14th overall pick.

bronco militia
08-16-2010, 09:08 AM
if you guys want to see more from smith, then be my guest. I think he's a journeyman at best.

Ray Finkle
08-16-2010, 09:13 AM
if you guys want to see more from smith, then be my guest. I think he's a journeyman at best.

loved to see what you said about Harris, Pryce, Elway after their abysmal first year.....not saying he will be that good but I remember watching McCaffery own Shawn Springs and never thinking he will do anything in the league....

Taco John
08-16-2010, 09:16 AM
if you guys want to see more from smith, then be my guest. I think he's a journeyman at best.

But someone wrote a good article about him in the preseason!

24champ
08-16-2010, 09:42 AM
Smith is struggling and might not make it out of camp - Mike Kils beat writer for DPO. 8/16/2010

I agree he is in trouble.

Small and slow is not a way to go through your NFL life.
Maybe Josh can blame this pick on Nolan

Not surprised. The Jarvis Moss of Cornerbacks.

Lolad
08-16-2010, 09:58 AM
it wasn't.....it was a future pick they traded....it happened to be the 14th overall pick.

no matter what he wouldn't have been picked in the 1st round.

bronco militia
08-16-2010, 10:17 AM
loved to see what you said about Harris, Pryce, Elway after their abysmal first year.....not saying he will be that good but I remember watching McCaffery own Shawn Springs and never thinking he will do anything in the league....

the broncos didn't draft eddie mac, so I have no clue about his rookie season.

I was 11 in 1983 and only cared about the Dodgers

I didn't care about many draft picks from 1997-99. the broncos were loaded. who gave a ****!?!?

Harris was brutal in his first game but improved every week. not bad for a 3rd rounder.


good luck on your #22 fan club. I hope he proves me wrong, but I still don't see it

TheReverend
08-16-2010, 10:29 AM
They didn't draft him to play that position forever. They want him to start eventually. And why is everyone calling him a bust? Half the people here don't even know he wears 22. Its been one year and a pre-season game. Our second round corner gets more time than that to be called a bust.

I missed the game entirely in flight back home after my best friends wedding. He's on the Scott catch and run highlight though, and he looks like he's never played a day of football when he runs out of the ball carriers way to make sure he gets another 20 yards.

cmhargrove
08-16-2010, 11:24 AM
Not surprised. The Jarvis Moss of Cornerbacks.

This year, Alphonso wants to DOMINATE!

colonelbeef
08-16-2010, 11:28 AM
Ah, off season fluff pieces.

they really are tiresome after a while

Retire #30!!!
08-16-2010, 11:55 AM
I missed the game entirely in flight back home after my best friends wedding. He's on the Scott catch and run highlight though, and he looks like he's never played a day of football when he runs out of the ball carriers way to make sure he gets another 20 yards.

Not that I love Smith, but to be fair that wasn't him on that play I think that was Jones

Ugh nevermind, that was Smith and he did run right out of the way Hilarious!

24champ
08-16-2010, 12:19 PM
This year, Alphonso wants to DOMINATE!

Alphonso is contemplating retirement.

TheReverend
08-16-2010, 12:24 PM
Not that I love Smith, but to be fair that wasn't him on that play I think that was Jones

Ugh nevermind, that was Smith and he did run right out of the way Hilarious!

Yup. With zero sense of urgency, he moves out of the way for Scott, and then gets his hips locked in the wrong direction, and when he needs to turn back, he doesn't even bother to toss an elbow to pop his hips quicker and...

I mean, jesus... I'll hold off until I see some more, but... ffs...

misturanderson
08-16-2010, 01:49 PM
IMO you don't waist 1st and 2nd round pick on nickel/backup corner.

They didn't waste a 1st and 2nd, moron. If he does end up a bust, then they wasted a 1st.

Taco John
08-16-2010, 02:03 PM
They didn't waste a 1st and 2nd, moron. If he does end up a bust, then they wasted a 1st.

No, he was right. It would be both a 1st and a 2nd. Two picks were burnt to draft him, no?

Taco John
08-16-2010, 02:08 PM
Now that I think about it, I see your point too. It hurts my brains to think about on a Monday.

Kaylore
08-16-2010, 02:08 PM
No, he was right. It would be both a 1st and a 2nd. Two picks were burnt to draft him, no?

Well we gave a future first for a current second, so no, because if we hadn't traded the first, we wouldn't have had the second. So we gave a first, but that doesn't make him a first round pick, because we drafted him in the second round.

bronco militia
08-16-2010, 02:09 PM
They didn't waste a 1st and 2nd, moron. If he does end up a bust, then they wasted a 1st.

stoopid face :clown:

TheReverend
08-16-2010, 02:09 PM
No, he was right. It would be both a 1st and a 2nd. Two picks were burnt to draft him, no?

No, just the one.

TheReverend
08-16-2010, 02:10 PM
Well we gave a future first for a current second, so no, because if we hadn't traded the first, we wouldn't have had the second. So we gave a first, but that doesn't make him a first round pick, because we drafted him in the second round.

Yeah we lost out on getting the chance to lock him up for a fifth year.

Gonna be really hard to resign talent like that without putting Bowlen in the poor house.

bronco militia
08-16-2010, 02:14 PM
Well we gave a future first for a current second, so no, because if we hadn't traded the first, we wouldn't have had the second. So we gave a first, but that doesn't make him a first round pick, because we drafted him in the second round.

Ha!

technically yes...but two sounds worse, and it's close enough:approve:

Pendejo
08-16-2010, 02:36 PM
the broncos didn't draft eddie mac, so I have no clue about his rookie season.

I think he was referring to Eddie running a clinic on then rookie Shawn Springs in Seattle at the beginning of the first Super Bowl run. Springs didn't look like he belonged in the league, but has gone on to have a very good career.

bronco militia
08-16-2010, 02:38 PM
I think he was referring to Eddie running a clinic on then rookie Shawn Springs in Seattle at the beginning of the first Super Bowl run. Springs didn't look like he belonged in the league, but has gone on to have a very good career.

ok...who cares about shawn springs?

Ha!

Ray Finkle
08-16-2010, 07:31 PM
I think he was referring to Eddie running a clinic on then rookie Shawn Springs in Seattle at the beginning of the first Super Bowl run. Springs didn't look like he belonged in the league, but has gone on to have a very good career.

ding!

Popps
08-16-2010, 09:18 PM
Ehh. Don't close the book on Smith just yet.

Certainly, you have some hits and misses in the draft, but it's too early to call him a bust at this point. Let's see what happens this season. He was phenomenal in college.

Swedish Extrovert
08-16-2010, 10:41 PM
Darrell Green was pretty good at tackling and playing corner at 5"9. Just because you can't tackle doesn't mean anything about playing in the NFL LOL

Shorter guys get lower and have an easier time driving through. It's why a lot of linebackers and running backs are short. Stacked, but short.

TheReverend
08-16-2010, 10:54 PM
I'm 5'7'' and I was the fastest player on my HS team. I never started. I was a Free Safety, and mostly played as a nickel corner (or as gunner on special teams), because I wasn't tall enough to a good enough tackler to play the flat.

Shorter guys get lower and have an easier time driving through. It's why a lot of linebackers and running backs are short. Stacked, but short.

Get your own opinion straight.

Shorter guys with NFL size are usually stockier, so you have one portion right, but taller guys get some grab leverage and range on tackles too. Frankly, it doesn't matter one bit. Tackling is sheerly physicality. Are you a violent person that likes to impose your will on someone else through mutual pain or are you pussy? Alphonso Smith is the biggest pussy I've ever seen wear an orange and blue uniform to date.

The MVPlaya
08-16-2010, 11:00 PM
Get your own opinion straight.

Shorter guys with NFL size are usually stockier, so you have one portion right, but taller guys get some grab leverage and range on tackles too. Frankly, it doesn't matter one bit. Tackling is sheerly physicality. Are you a violent person that likes to impose your will on someone else through mutual pain or are you p***Y? Alphonso Smith is the biggest p***Y I've ever seen wear an orange and blue uniform to date.

Nah I wouldn't go that far. I think niko koutouvides or john engelberger were much worst.

And what has Alphonso done to be "p***Y"? I hope you weren't one of those people who watched the game and thought he was #33.

Dr. Broncenstein
08-16-2010, 11:06 PM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00dT2Ws7rKeEU/340x.jpg

TheReverend
08-16-2010, 11:08 PM
Nah I wouldn't go that far. I think niko koutouvides or john engelberger were much worst.

And what has Alphonso done to be "p***Y"? I hope you weren't one of those people who watched the game and thought he was #33.

Engleberger deserves more credit than people give him.

Niko does not, but he played a contact position.

Alphonso deserves to be a "pussy" from his sheer volume of avoiding contact. Check out the scott catch and run. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d819c8567/Pre-WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Play-The-elusive-Scott

PS. You're still a know nothing douche bag that doesn't even deserve the right to address me, so go **** off even if you're trying to have a nice conversation like now, I'm not interested.

Popps
08-16-2010, 11:20 PM
Engleberger deserves more credit than people give him.
.

I've always said that.

The MVPlaya
08-16-2010, 11:25 PM
Engleberger deserves more credit than people give him.

Niko does not, but he played a contact position.

Alphonso deserves to be a "p***Y" from his sheer volume of avoiding contact. Check out the scott catch and run. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d819c8567/Pre-WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Play-The-elusive-Scott

PS. You're still a know nothing douche bag that doesn't even deserve the right to address me, so go **** off even if you're trying to have a nice conversation like now, I'm not interested.

You had me laughing on that one. Man, good stuff.

Anyways, Alphonso came from the other side of the field to try and make a play. He didn't go for the tackle right away but I don't think you realize how fast things are moving. He didn't avoid anything, Scott just cut behind him... watch it again, at what point did he "avoid" contact. He made the tackle for **** sake.

Now, he could have made the tackle earlier by attempting to run through him as he was running from the other side of the field instead of playing a safer approach.

He made the tackle. Watch him for the whole play, there really nothing that happens that would deem him pussy.

I think most DB's in the league would do exactly what he just did. Yes that includes Revis.

See, a pussy play is what Cromartie did last season against the Jets. Now THAT is pussy.

The MVPlaya
08-16-2010, 11:26 PM
Engleberger is not in the league anymore. Considering every team needs depth at dlineman, that's all that really needs to be said.

TheReverend
08-16-2010, 11:28 PM
You had me laughing on that one. Man, good stuff.

Anyways, Alphonso came from the other side of the field to try and make a play. He didn't go for the tackle right away but I don't think you realize how fast things are moving. He didn't avoid anything, Scott just cut behind him... watch it again, at what point did he "avoid" contact. He made the tackle for **** sake.

Now, he could have made the tackle earlier by attempting to run through him as he was running from the other side of the field instead of playing a safer approach.

He made the tackle. Watch him for the whole play, there really nothing that happens that would deem him p***Y.

I think most DB's in the league would do exactly what he just did. Yes that includes Revis.

See, a p***Y play is what Cromartie did last season against the Jets. Now THAT is p***Y.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGppJDgu5s1APyPcLE2o4Hl_eNU6ny2 KeLIDi1CyAkB5HRDEQ&t=1&usg=__7WOoVflYL9cjyXf3wJJuntdfbDE=

The MVPlaya
08-16-2010, 11:31 PM
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGppJDgu5s1APyPcLE2o4Hl_eNU6ny2 KeLIDi1CyAkB5HRDEQ&t=1&usg=__7WOoVflYL9cjyXf3wJJuntdfbDE=

???

The MVPlaya
08-16-2010, 11:33 PM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00dT2Ws7rKeEU/340x.jpg

He was pretty pussy too, especially for a LB.

TheReverend
08-16-2010, 11:54 PM
???

1. It's a little absurd to compare the toughness of a guy who started a full season on the DL with a seperated shoulder to a corner who avoids contact EVERY CHANCE he gets.

2. It's not like he was across the field and running him down from a pursuit angle. He's deep into a drop and has every opportunity to not just shift over to make the tackle (which he didn't), but attack and make the play after the initial missed tackle.

The MVPlaya
08-17-2010, 12:04 AM
1. It's a little absurd to compare the toughness of a guy who started a full season on the DL with a seperated shoulder to a corner who avoids contact EVERY CHANCE he gets.

2. It's not like he was across the field and running him down from a pursuit angle. He's deep into a drop and has every opportunity to not just shift over to make the tackle (which he didn't), but attack and make the play after the initial missed tackle.

I'm not really comparing Alfonso to any of the guys I named other than the other DB's in the league. Alfonso doesn't avoid contact every chance he gets.

He made a nice tackle on Terrell Owens on the 1st or 2nd series after our 1st team defense went out. Owens caught the ball. Smith ran right up on him and made the tackle, no YAC, didn't fall forward.

I think that's far from a p***Y play considering other things I've/we've seen. CB's generally can't be held to the same standards as safeties either... your statement of him being the biggest p***Y to wear a Broncos uniform was a bit reckless and out of line.

TheReverend
08-17-2010, 12:06 AM
I'm not really comparing Alfonso to any of the guys I named other than the other DB's in the league. Alfonso doesn't avoid contact every chance he gets.

He made a nice tackle on Terrell Owens on the 1st or 2nd series after our 1st team defense went out. Owens caught the ball. Smith ran right up on him and made the tackle, no YAC, didn't fall forward.

I think that's far from a p***Y play considering other things I've/we've seen. CB's generally can't be held to the same standards as safeties either... your statement of him being the biggest p***Y to wear a Broncos uniform was a bit reckless and out of line.

Let me guess, TO just caught the ball and didn't have time to square up yet?

UberBroncoMan
08-17-2010, 01:44 AM
Let me guess, TO just caught the ball and didn't have time to square up yet?

There's an entire South Park episode about Alphonso Smith... had to do with veal.

DivineLegion
08-17-2010, 02:12 AM
I think he was anticipating a juke. Watch it again Scott does adjusts his hips toward the sideline and Smith reacts then he continues on up the field. Give Alophonso some credit for atleast running him down after he got juked out of his jock strap. Not everyone is Tim Tebow Rev give the kid a break he came out of the ACC.

The MVPlaya
08-17-2010, 03:22 AM
Let me guess, TO just caught the ball and didn't have time to square up yet?

And? By the way you make it sound, he would have stood there and wait for TO to turn around before attempting a tackle.

Look, Fonz has been far from spectacular, but he's far from the biggest pussy this team has seen.

Drek
08-17-2010, 04:32 AM
Engleberger deserves more credit than people give him.

Niko does not, but he played a contact position.

Alphonso deserves to be a "p***Y" from his sheer volume of avoiding contact. Check out the scott catch and run. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d819c8567/Pre-WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Play-The-elusive-Scott

PS. You're still a know nothing douche bag that doesn't even deserve the right to address me, so go **** off even if you're trying to have a nice conversation like now, I'm not interested.

I don't know, all I see in that video is Smith bailing out when he recognizes he's got horrible position and would just get blown up by Scott if he tried to make the tackle.

He didn't have himself squared up at all. Scott threw a little baby juke on him and Smith obviously realized an attempt to bring him down would be futile.

Now did Smith take a horrible angle? Sure did. It also looked like he slowed up when Mays came from behind Scott and someone I can't identify (a safety) went low, taking Mays out. But it never looked like him avoiding contact. He just isn't a great tackler and doesn't seek out contact. Thats true of most DBs.

I'd like to think a second rounder who lost his job as the nickel last year following an injury would be real fired up and looking to show he's hungry on every play, but we've seen Smith give some pretty good hits in the right situations. He isn't afraid of contact, he just doesn't seek it out and jump in the piles like what we've come to expect from someone like Champ.

outdoor_miner
08-17-2010, 07:00 AM
Scott threw a little baby juke on him and Smith obviously realized an attempt to bring him down would be futile.

Totally. He got juked out.... It was a terrible play, but he didn't purposefully avoid contact or anything. He just effed up the tackle.

TheReverend
08-17-2010, 09:58 AM
And? By the way you make it sound, he would have stood there and wait for TO to turn around before attempting a tackle.

Look, Fonz has been far from spectacular, but he's far from the biggest p***Y this team has seen.

Doc had a good candidate with the Boss Bailey photo, but he was decently physical when healthy so I think that would put him higher.

I honestly can't think of someone who can compete with Smith.

Maybe Calvin Lowry or Danny Kannell?

TheReverend
08-17-2010, 09:59 AM
I don't know, all I see in that video is Smith bailing out when he recognizes he's got horrible position and would just get blown up by Scott if he tried to make the tackle.

He didn't have himself squared up at all. Scott threw a little baby juke on him and Smith obviously realized an attempt to bring him down would be futile.

Now did Smith take a horrible angle? Sure did. It also looked like he slowed up when Mays came from behind Scott and someone I can't identify (a safety) went low, taking Mays out. But it never looked like him avoiding contact. He just isn't a great tackler and doesn't seek out contact. Thats true of most DBs.

I'd like to think a second rounder who lost his job as the nickel last year following an injury would be real fired up and looking to show he's hungry on every play, but we've seen Smith give some pretty good hits in the right situations. He isn't afraid of contact, he just doesn't seek it out and jump in the piles like what we've come to expect from someone like Champ.

No way dude, it's called breaking down and going for it. Smith didn't want any of it, that's the bottomline. Show me some of these mythical "good hits"?

Drek
08-17-2010, 10:32 AM
No way dude, it's called breaking down and going for it. Smith didn't want any of it, that's the bottomline. Show me some of these mythical "good hits"?

There where a few nickel blitzes he was sent on last year that he gave some good shots on, can't find videos of them though.

I largely agree that he didn't show good effort in that play, but it wasn't him avoiding contact for the sake of avoiding contact. He was slow to the ball carrier because he thought two others had Scott down and when Scott broke free his lack of effort to the point left him in poor position.

Would you have preferred him breaking down and getting ran over as opposed to him redirecting and making the tackle down field? Because that was what would've happened.

He didn't play to the whistle and didn't help his teammates finish a tackle on a back who had been giving them problems all game to that point. That was his mistake, not an unwillingness to engage in contact.

Kaylore
08-17-2010, 10:38 AM
Doc had a good candidate with the Boss Bailey photo, but he was decently physical when healthy so I think that would put him higher.

I honestly can't think of someone who can compete with Smith.

Maybe Calvin Lowry or Danny Kannell?

Smith is pretty physical in camp (or was last year. I haven't seen yet). Saying he's the biggest pussy ever is hyperbole to the max. He was physical in college too. Also, he played his man pretty smart in the Bengals game. He kept outside leverage and never let someone get behind him. I'm not advocating him as anything amazing, but the hatred for this second round corner is insane around here.

Kaylore
08-17-2010, 10:40 AM
No way dude, it's called breaking down and going for it. Smith didn't want any of it, that's the bottomline. Show me some of these mythical "good hits"?

I can think of several plays where he charges into receivers after quick catches in the flat and tackles them correctly. I don't have any "video evidence" but your description of him playing to avoid contact doesn't jive with what I see. I see a kid who is slow and plays tentative but not scared.

oubronco
08-17-2010, 10:45 AM
I can think of several plays where he charges into receivers after quick catches in the flat and tackles them correctly. I don't have any "video evidence" but your description of him playing to avoid contact doesn't jive with what I see. I see a kid who is slow and plays tentative but not scared.

Not real good traits for a corner don't you think

TheReverend
08-17-2010, 10:54 AM
Smith is pretty physical in camp (or was last year. I haven't seen yet). Saying he's the biggest p***Y ever is hyperbole to the max. He was physical in college too. Also, he played his man pretty smart in the Bengals game. He kept outside leverage and never let someone get behind him. I'm not advocating him as anything amazing, but the hatred for this second round corner is insane around here.

I WILL take your word for it, but my opinion will absolutely remain unchanged until I see at least one example, let alone a consistent level of fire. And I didn't say "ever", I said in a Broncos uniform :)

TheReverend
08-17-2010, 10:56 AM
There where a few nickel blitzes he was sent on last year that he gave some good shots on, can't find videos of them though.

I largely agree that he didn't show good effort in that play, but it wasn't him avoiding contact for the sake of avoiding contact. He was slow to the ball carrier because he thought two others had Scott down and when Scott broke free his lack of effort to the point left him in poor position.

Would you have preferred him breaking down and getting ran over as opposed to him redirecting and making the tackle down field? Because that was what would've happened.

He didn't play to the whistle and didn't help his teammates finish a tackle on a back who had been giving them problems all game to that point. That was his mistake, not an unwillingness to engage in contact.

Yes, absolutely. Even if he couldnt hang on to an ankle or something it would've provided an extra second to the rest of the defenders and saved a good 20 yards on the play.

montrose
08-17-2010, 11:01 AM
Yes, absolutely. Even if he couldnt hang on to an ankle or something it would've provided an extra second to the rest of the defenders and saved a good 20 yards on the play.

This! This! and This! (And I love Alphonso, btw). I had a discussion with a friend a day ago that the "proper" way of playing sports has somewhat been diminished because guys don't want to get embarrased. LeRon Landry being trucked by Brandon Jacobs has become a legendary clip - and yes Landry got fed up. But he did the RIGHT THING. It's just like basketball players who don't contest shots because they don't want to get to dunked on and be made fun of on highlights. If Zo had gotten trucked on that run, yes he would've been embarrased and this board would've been unmerciful on him. But it would've been the right thing and helped the team.

Another unfortunate circumstance of the ESPN sports culture.

Popps
08-17-2010, 11:04 AM
Yes, absolutely. Even if he couldnt hang on to an ankle or something it would've provided an extra second to the rest of the defenders and saved a good 20 yards on the play.

Watched the play a few times and I personally think it's hard to tell. If he flips around and dives at the guy, he's likely taking himself out of the play, imo.
He was the one who chased him down, after all.

It was questionable, though. I'll give you that. Can't say it looked to me like avoiding contact so much as maybe not initially being in the right place to make a move to the ball-carrier.

Taco John
08-17-2010, 11:09 AM
I just think the guy has poor running instincts. I can't say that I have Kaylore's memory where he seems to remember times that Smith made great tackles. I can't remember a time where I ever raised my eyebrows and thought, DAMN - GREAT TACKLE SMITH! On the other hand, I can remember runs where I saw him out of position or gave an arm tackle at best.

I want to be fair to the guy though. I mean - it's not his fault that we burnt a #1 to take him. Even if he's not #1 talent, or even #2 talent, he's only year two in probably the hardest position there is to make the college to NFL adjustment. I hope he pans out.

Drek
08-17-2010, 11:14 AM
This! This! and This! (And I love Alphonso, btw). I had a discussion with a friend a day ago that the "proper" way of playing sports has somewhat been diminished because guys don't want to get embarrased. LeRon Landry being trucked by Brandon Jacobs has become a legendary clip - and yes Landry got fed up. But he did the RIGHT THING. It's just like basketball players who don't contest shots because they don't want to get to dunked on and be made fun of on highlights. If Zo had gotten trucked on that run, yes he would've been embarrased and this board would've been unmerciful on him. But it would've been the right thing and helped the team.

Another unfortunate circumstance of the ESPN sports culture.

I'm all for unmercifully bashing his effort on that play.

But him breaking down and ultimately just trying to grasp an ankle when he was possibly the last line of defense isn't really the ideal scenario either.

I didn't like his effort on the play because as the safety and Mays collided Smith had visibly slowed. He did not play through the end of the play and help finish the tackle. Instead he put himself in a no win situation he had to bail out and give up more yardage.

He screwed up, but it wasn't out of a desire to avoid contact, it was from previous lack of effort that left him out of position.

I don't see how Smith falling to the ground and grasping for a foot or ankle would've saved much, if any yardage while possibly giving up a huge play.

TheReverend
08-17-2010, 11:16 AM
Watched the play a few times and I personally think it's hard to tell. If he flips around and dives at the guy, he's likely taking himself out of the play, imo.
He was the one who chased him down, after all.

It was questionable, though. I'll give you that. Can't say it looked to me like avoiding contact so much as maybe not initially being in the right place to make a move to the ball-carrier.

No.

You breakdown in front of the ball carrier. That gives the ball carrier two options:

1. Try to run through you.
2. Breakdown himself to put a move on.

Either option buys the appropriate time to your team and if they can't make the play from there, bad on them, you made an adequate contribution.

TheReverend
08-17-2010, 11:21 AM
This! This! and This! (And I love Alphonso, btw). I had a discussion with a friend a day ago that the "proper" way of playing sports has somewhat been diminished because guys don't want to get embarrased. LeRon Landry being trucked by Brandon Jacobs has become a legendary clip - and yes Landry got fed up. But he did the RIGHT THING. It's just like basketball players who don't contest shots because they don't want to get to dunked on and be made fun of on highlights. If Zo had gotten trucked on that run, yes he would've been embarrased and this board would've been unmerciful on him. But it would've been the right thing and helped the team.

Another unfortunate circumstance of the ESPN sports culture.

Absolutely! It's not just isolated to Smith or tackling either. How many times do we see someone trying to run around blockers or stepping up into them when the appropriate action is to stay in a back-peddle and let them de-cleat you to take out the lead blocker and force the run back inside.

24champ
08-17-2010, 01:07 PM
I'm not advocating him as anything amazing, but the hatred for this second round corner is insane around here.

Montrose and others have hyped him to the max...he's not living up to that hype and your hearing that disappointment from others on here about it.

TheReverend
08-17-2010, 01:19 PM
Montrose and others have hyped him to the max...he's not living up to that hype and your hearing that disappointment from others on here about it.

I think it would still be every bit as full force if no one had hyped him for a single sentence.

It cost us the 14th overall pick in the strongest draft I've ever seen to take a midget corner who (paraphrasing my words from 09 draft day since I can't remember specifically) "will never be successful in the NFL".

Part of it is Alphonso's fault... elevating his game to the professional level and going 100% on every play/practice is his responsibility.

But the lions share really should fall on Xanders for sucking so much pole on his draft day, San Francisco holds an annual parade for him.

Swedish Extrovert
08-17-2010, 01:21 PM
Get your own opinion straight.

Shorter guys with NFL size are usually stockier, so you have one portion right, but taller guys get some grab leverage and range on tackles too. Frankly, it doesn't matter one bit. Tackling is sheerly physicality. Are you a violent person that likes to impose your will on someone else through mutual pain or are you p***Y? Alphonso Smith is the biggest p***Y I've ever seen wear an orange and blue uniform to date.

I guess I did contradict my self a little bit. I was referring more to playing those streaks and corner routes, and being physical at the line. A taller corner helps in doing such. Alpsonso Smith can't play bump and run.

azbroncfan
08-17-2010, 02:09 PM
Engleberger is not in the league anymore. Considering every team needs depth at dlineman, that's all that really needs to be said.

Exactly and didn't even get an invite for a training camp or tackling dummy since being cut by Denver. Even Crowder was invited to another teams camp.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-03-2010, 07:33 PM
http://lifeboat.com/images/bump.sign.jpg

Dagmar
09-03-2010, 07:38 PM
http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=49839

We miss Putzier <hr style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> Admit it... the guy always seemed to make a play in the recieving department. Stiffler was a calucated risk that has completely backfired. Reguardless of his blocking ability, at least Putz made a big play or two per game. SA just sucks.... Mustard is a bigger threat and that guy is a couble of cheeseburgers shy of 3 bills.

Of all our offseason manuvers, the dumping of Putz seems to be the worst IMO.


http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=83788

Could we be shopping for Derek Anderson? <hr style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> Consider this scenario:

The Browns put in a waiver claim on O'Connel. They have Quinn, Anderson, and Ratliff -- with Ratliff being a Mangini import. There is no way they were going to carry four quarterbacks... and honestly there is no way they can continue to pay two starting quarterback salaries plus deal with the politics of the situation. My question is this: were the Broncos working a deal for Derek Anderson? If not, why not?

Dr. Broncenstein
09-03-2010, 07:42 PM
http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=49839



http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=83788

Last time I checked, Derek Anderson was slated to start in Arizona.

Dagmar
09-03-2010, 07:48 PM
Last time I checked, Derek Anderson was slated to start in Arizona..

http://i55.tinypic.com/2qipyrd.png

http://i52.tinypic.com/2nbbwxs.png

http://i56.tinypic.com/2ibcjyw.jpg

Dr. Broncenstein
09-03-2010, 07:51 PM
.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2qipyrd.png

http://i52.tinypic.com/2nbbwxs.png

http://i56.tinypic.com/2ibcjyw.jpg

So what are you trying to say? Derek Anderson is going to start for the Cardinals.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81a42595/article/leinarts-future-remains-unresolved-after-meeting-with-coach

Dr. Broncenstein
09-03-2010, 07:53 PM
Let me ask you this. Besides the obvious butthurt over the threadbump... a relevant to the 2010 Broncos threadbump... would you rather have Brady Quinn at this point?

Dagmar
09-03-2010, 07:57 PM
So what are you trying to say? Derek Anderson is going to start for the Cardinals.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81a42595/article/leinarts-future-remains-unresolved-after-meeting-with-coach

I'm saying that Anderson is blatantly ****, and for a good poster this rubbing it in folks faces bull**** is a jhns/strafen move that is tiresome.

Broncoman13
09-03-2010, 07:59 PM
I'm saying that Anderson is blatantly ****, and for a good poster this rubbing it in folks faces bull**** is a jhns/strafen move that is tiresome.

Dis.

Taco John
09-03-2010, 08:13 PM
The Gonzo watch is on...

Dr. Broncenstein
09-03-2010, 08:15 PM
I'm saying that Anderson is blatantly ****, and for a good poster this rubbing it in folks faces bull**** is a jhns/strafen move that is tiresome.

This is the first thread I've bumped, and for good reason. Good posters went apeshiat at the suggestion that Phonz might be in a fight to make the team. That was litterally my statement, and all civility was lost then. It continued to an even more extreme yesterday and last night. And for what it's worth, I would rather have Derek Anderson than Brady Quinn.

Broncoman13
09-03-2010, 08:19 PM
This is the first thread I've bumped, and for good reason. Good posters went apeshiat at the suggestion that Phonz might be in a fight to make the team. That was litterally my statement, and all civility was lost then. It continued to an even more extreme yesterday and last night. And for what it's worth, I would rather have Derek Anderson than Brady Quinn.

So this is a look at me I'm right bump? Didn't think you were that much of a softy.

Req and I went back and forth on this a while back, I was saying the same thing as you after two weeks of camp. He thought at worst Fonz was the 5th best CB on the team. Point is, I'm not bumping that thread or those back and forth posts... he remembers, no need to try to show him up over it.

Broncoman13
09-03-2010, 08:20 PM
Oh, and for the record... none of us are close to 100% on calling players. Baja and I are probably the closest expect Darrius Watts got in the way. ;D

Blueflame
09-03-2010, 08:24 PM
I'm saying that Anderson is blatantly ****, and for a good poster this rubbing it in folks faces bull**** is a jhns/strafen move that is tiresome.

Heaven knows that no one has ever, ever had their faces rubbed in it on the OrangeMane for having expressed an opinion that proved to be wrong... :P

Broncoman13
09-03-2010, 08:45 PM
Heaven knows that no one has ever, ever had their faces rubbed in it on the OrangeMane for having expressed an opinion that proved to be wrong... :P

Well duh... we're never wrong.

Blueflame
09-03-2010, 09:02 PM
Well duh... we're never wrong.

No doubt. ;D

Durango
09-03-2010, 09:23 PM
#22 didn't have a horrible game, in fact, I think he had a pretty decent game. Its way too early to call him a "shanny bust" because that IS setting the bar real high for drafting futility.


Yeah, wow, what was I thinking? Way too early.

baja
09-03-2010, 10:04 PM
Oh, and for the record... none of us are close to 100% on calling players. Baja and I are probably the closest expect Darrius Watts got in the way. ;D

Too bad about the nerve damage that guy could get open like no player i have ever seen. ;D

strafen
09-04-2010, 08:29 PM
Translation: he is going to have quite a fight on his hands just to make the roster.

Spot on!

footstepsfrom#27
09-04-2010, 11:53 PM
What's done is done...water under the bridge, spilled milk, that sort of thing so it's time to move on. Lots of us hated the Smith thing then and still do but are we going to collectively analyze every single decision in the draft from this point forward or can we aknowledge some good things in the overall picture seem to be taking shape? I was here for Elway and the town went crazy over him right off the bat, yet Tebo comes in with similar credentials and the fan base seems more interested in continuing the civil war. Cripes if we can't come together around Tebo, what can we?

As for Phonzie I hope he solves whatever issues he's got and catches on somewhere because I think he's a better kid than he showed here but frankly if you look at the talent they assembled alonside him from almost nothing, it's stunning to find 3 corners in the draft in one year that can all play and the highest drafted guy went in the 5th round? That's impressive, and I doubt Smith could have seen that coming which might be why his drive was being questioned. I think the dude got caught flat footed by the competition he wasn't expecting.