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View Full Version : Broncos playing hardball with Dumervil


BMarsh615
06-10-2010, 02:05 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncosheadlines/ci_15264797?source=rss&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter#

In their latest round of contract negotiations, the Broncos threw a cut block at NFL sack king Elvis Dumervil.

According to an NFL Players Associations source, the Broncos recently sent a letter to Dumervil stating that if he didn't sign his restricted free-agent tender of $3.168 million by Monday, the team on Tuesday would exercise its right to reduce his 2010 salary to 10 percent above what he made the previous season.

Dumervil made roughly $573,000 last season, which would put his 2010 salary at about $630,000 if he doesn't sign his tender. Would the Broncos really play hardball with their Pro Bowl linebacker by paying him a relative pittance?

The union source said New England's Logan Mankins and San Diego's Vincent Jackson along with Marcus McNeill were among unsigned restricted free agents who received similar letters. Although such letters are not uncommon, and Dumervil had intended to sign his tender this weekend, the Broncos declined to make the goodwill, negotiating gesture of not reducing his salary if he opted not to sign.

After leading the NFL with 17 sacks last season, and recording 43 sacks through his four seasons, Dumervil, 26, wants to be among the league's five highest-paid pass rushers. The Chicago Bears recently gave a $42 million guaranteed contract to Julius Peppers, who is 30 and coming off a 10 1/2-sack season. Last summer, Baltimore signed Terrell Suggs, who was coming off an eight-sack season, to a $38.1 million guarantee.

The next contract deadline involving Dumervil and the Broncos is July 29, when veterans report for training camp. While other restricted free agents have threatened to hold out from training camp if they don't get a new deal, Dumervil has said he hopes to never reach that decision.

He will attend the Broncos' mandatory minicamp Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

cutthemdown
06-10-2010, 02:41 AM
Seems like what you do is sign it, have a great yr, then try again for the big pay day. Not saying it's fair but it's just how it is.

meangene
06-10-2010, 04:12 AM
I still believe we will sign Doom to a long-term deal before the season starts. I know the letter is a business formality being done around the league with guys who have not signed their tenders, but, they are missing out on a chance to make a real good faith gesture with him. I hope this does not sour what have been, thus far, cordial negotiations. Not a smart move IMO.

FireFly
06-10-2010, 04:32 AM
I think we'll sign him to a long term deal - before the season if not before training camp!

I don't necessarily think he's top 5 OLB in the league (I know you all probably do)

But I do think he's the best that we have and we do NOT want to lose him. So I'm really hoping they pay - even if they have to slightly over pay

extralife
06-10-2010, 04:50 AM
After signing Kuper, it would be an insult to ignore Doom. Who knows what the hell we're thinking.

HILife
06-10-2010, 05:53 AM
Just pay the man and lets move on.

ColoradoDarin
06-10-2010, 06:27 AM
They want him to sign the tender and THEN sign an extension. I think Doom just wants a new contract in place of this year's tender. Can't say I blame either party, but something's got to give.

Hamrob
06-10-2010, 07:10 AM
Yeah, he wants more that the $3m for 2010...not a deal that pays him the tender this year and then starts out in 2011.

Personally, I don't think he's worth that coin...he's one dimensional...which he's very good at...but, he's not worth Champ Bailey coin in my opinion.

$40-$50m over 6yrs fine...more than that...I'm not sure he's worth it.

oubronco
06-10-2010, 07:21 AM
Just pay the man and lets move on.

we've seen this before

bowtown
06-10-2010, 07:23 AM
This is a matter of business policy. You have to let it be known that this is how every circumstance of an RFA not signing their tender will be handled. If you start making exceptions, then you start running into problems down the line. I'd be shocked if Elvis and his agent hadn't already discussed this with the team and weren't expecting it. This is just trying to make news out of no news.

AlienBronco
06-10-2010, 07:24 AM
Playing DE he get's to the QB...., at the LB position he get's to the QB....
He can't be denied. To me he is a certified QB Doom machine. A QB sack is as important as a Interception by a CB so in regard to Champ Bailey he is worth every penny.

Pay the man.

dbfan21
06-10-2010, 07:58 AM
I am not real crazy about the fact they have elected to play hardball with Doom. He has been in the OTAs (for the most part) and has towed the company line, which is something McD wants.

So why won't they just give him a contract that reflects the production he's had in Denver over the last four years and the value he brings to the table for the next 5-6 years?

Get this done so we can focus on football!!

Mediator12
06-10-2010, 08:06 AM
Yeah, he wants more that the $3m for 2010...not a deal that pays him the tender this year and then starts out in 2011.

Personally, I don't think he's worth that coin...he's one dimensional...which he's very good at...but, he's not worth Champ Bailey coin in my opinion.

$40-$50m over 6yrs fine...more than that...I'm not sure he's worth it.

I agree that this is a contract ploy. However, DEN would still have to put guaranteed money on the table this year to sign a long term deal. Teams do that all the time and give real small base salaries in the gauranteed money years to offset actual cash outlay.

As for paying him, he is only 26 and in the prime of a top pass rusher. That is serious money on the line, the NFL pays for pass rushers way more than cover CB's...

As for paying him, I still think the NFL pays too much to the players today. They get a ridiculous amount of the pie for the product and still cry like babies and having to "feed their Families" :bs: That is the most degrading statement to people who actually have to work all kinds of jobs to actually feed theirs and have no money to actually go to an overpriced game.

I have seen what these guys do with the money they get and buying 30% of your salary in custom cars and 50% in housing is not "Feeding your Family" ;D I hate generalizations, but the NFL keeps incredibly accurate financial statistics on the way the players spend money once they get it. They monitor it to "protect the players" which is another ridiculous motivation statement. They do it because 85% of the players in the league have blown through their money within 3 years of being out of the league and want more money from the NFL.

I would pay Elvis though. He has done nothing but deserve to be paid and be as professional as possible. He is the guy you give the big payday, unless they know something we don't about his life.

tsiguy96
06-10-2010, 08:07 AM
I agree that this is a contract ploy. However, DEN would still have to put guaranteed money on the table this year to sign a long term deal. Teams do that all the time and give real small base salaries in the gauranteed money years to offset actual cash outlay.

As for paying him, he is only 26 and in the prime of a top pass rusher. That is serious money on the line, the NFL pays for pass rushers way more than cover CB's...

not way more...top corners are 13-16, which is higher than most NFL positions.

Garcia Bronco
06-10-2010, 08:08 AM
I want him here, but for as little money as possible.

tsiguy96
06-10-2010, 08:17 AM
now pft and nfp have picked up on this and making it a bigger story than it is, and people wonder why mcdaniels gets a bad rap. every team in the nfl is doing this, but when mcdaniels does it, hes a stupid idiot poopyhead. cant wait til mock checks in on this post.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-10-2010, 08:22 AM
This is a matter of business policy. You have to let it be known that this is how every circumstance of an RFA not signing their tender will be handled. If you start making exceptions, then you start running into problems down the line. I'd be shocked if Elvis and his agent hadn't already discussed this with the team and weren't expecting it. This is just trying to make news out of no news.

This. This exactly.

worm
06-10-2010, 08:23 AM
now pft and nfp have picked up on this and making it a bigger story than it is, and people wonder why mcdaniels gets a bad rap. every team in the nfl is doing this, but when mcdaniels does it, hes a stupid idiot poopyhead. cant wait til mock checks in on this post.

Stop with the persecution complex. It is being reported on by other teams, players and situations. Not just the Broncos.

Here is one on San Diego.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5267660

tsiguy96
06-10-2010, 08:25 AM
Stop with the persecution complex. It is being reported on by other teams, players and situations. Not just the Broncos.

Here is one on San Diego.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5267660

yes im aware, but go read nfp or pft, they discuss how dumervil has been a team player but mcdaniels is going to dump his salary anyway. i just hate the media sensationalism of all this bs

meangene
06-10-2010, 08:30 AM
I am not real crazy about the fact they have elected to play hardball with Doom. He has been in the OTAs (for the most part) and has towed the company line, which is something McD wants.


This. And this is exactly why showing some good faith in return by not sending him the letter threatening to reduce the tender would not set a bad precedent. In fact, I think it would send a positive message about how to go about negotiating a new contract in the right way.

As for his value, right now he IS our pass rush and the only impact player in our front seven. He is an elite pass rusher in the prime of his career who is a team player in the mold we want. He is a guy we need to get signed. Terrell Suggs is the most recent signing of a similar type player that I can think of.

This was his deal: Signed a six-year, $62.5 million contract. The heavily front-loaded deal contains $38.1 million guaranteed, including a $10.1 million signing bonus and Suggs' full first-year salary. 2009: $5 million, 2010: $1.9 million (+ $23 million option bonus due in March), 2011: $3.4 million (including salary and bonuses), 2012: $4.9 million (including salary and bonuses), 2013-2014: Under Contract, 2015: Free Agent

Rabb
06-10-2010, 08:49 AM
After signing Kuper, it would be an insult to ignore Doom. Who knows what the hell we're thinking.

I want Doom locked up here, no question. He deserves a solid contract.

But comparing Kuper's contract to the kind of contract a guy like Doom will demand is just stupid, they aren't even in the same ball park

Hell, they aren't even in the same continent.

lostknight
06-10-2010, 08:52 AM
This guy has made all the signs of goodwill. The Broncos office apparently not. Why am I not surprised?

Rabb
06-10-2010, 08:56 AM
This guy has made all the signs of goodwill. The Broncos office apparently not. Why am I not surprised?

Are you really so stupid that you don't realize that this is just standard business practice?

Did you think McD and company were just giggling and rubbing their hands together all sinister like before sending this out, thinking "ooohhhhh boy, wait until he sees THIS!!"

my God you are ****ing dumb

mr007
06-10-2010, 09:02 AM
yes im aware, but go read nfp or pft, they discuss how dumervil has been a team player but mcdaniels is going to dump his salary anyway. i just hate the media sensationalism of all this bs

Do you see a similar situation with another player in the NFL? The only one I can think of is Patrick Willis and his team took care of him pretty quickly.

mr007
06-10-2010, 09:05 AM
now pft and nfp have picked up on this and making it a bigger story than it is, and people wonder why mcdaniels gets a bad rap. every team in the nfl is doing this, but when mcdaniels does it, hes a stupid idiot poopyhead. cant wait til mock checks in on this post.

It's news, how are they making it a bigger story than it is? Give me one similar situation in the NFL that hasn't been reported by one of those sites... ohh wait, you can't? Who called him a poopyhead on pft? Pretty sure they're just stating what's happening and what the potential outcome is.

Popps
06-10-2010, 09:05 AM
I think we'll sign him to a long term deal - before the season if not before training camp!

I don't necessarily think he's top 5 OLB in the league (I know you all probably do)

But I do think he's the best that we have and we do NOT want to lose him. So I'm really hoping they pay - even if they have to slightly over pay

I think it's fairly well documented that he's still a work in progress as an LB in the broader sense. Clearly, he's a highly effective pass rusher. I think he's worth a big contract, though... even if he's got some things to work out. We need impact players, and he's clearly one of them.

outdoor_miner
06-10-2010, 09:09 AM
All of you assclowns have NO IDEA what is going on behind the scenes (nor do I)... Until Elvis Dumervil comes out and says, "This is a total slap in the face," you are wringing your hands over nothing. Nobody knows how negotiations are going behind the scenes, or how the Broncos and Dumervil's agent are interacting. So - let's hold on a bit before declaring that the sky is indeed falling...

meangene
06-10-2010, 09:10 AM
Do you see a similar situation with another player in the NFL? The only one I can think of is Patrick Willis and his team took care of him pretty quickly.

Willis was not a free agent as I recall - they just re-worked his deal to sign him to a long-term extension. Actually, in this uncapped year with no CBA in place, there are a lot of guys in similar situations to Doom's. Just look at San Diego. Teams are reluctant to sign guys to big money long-term deals with labor uncertainty and the threat of an impending lockout. But, I think Doom is one of those elite players you need to wrap up now with a long-term deal regardless of the CBA or restricted free agency situation. And, ultimately, I think we will.

Rabb
06-10-2010, 09:11 AM
All of you assclowns have NO IDEA what is going on behind the scenes (nor do I)... Until Elvis Dumervil comes out and says, "This is a total slap in the face," you are wringing your hands over nothing. Nobody knows how negotiations are going behind the scenes, or how the Broncos and Dumervil's agent are interacting. So - let's hold on a bit before declaring that the sky is indeed falling...

:notworthy

Dagmar
06-10-2010, 09:13 AM
All of you assclowns have NO IDEA what is going on behind the scenes (nor do I)... Until Elvis Dumervil comes out and says, "This is a total slap in the face," you are wringing your hands over nothing. Nobody knows how negotiations are going behind the scenes, or how the Broncos and Dumervil's agent are interacting. So - let's hold on a bit before declaring that the sky is indeed falling...

:thumbsup:

RMT
06-10-2010, 09:14 AM
Playing DE he get's to the QB...., at the LB position he get's to the QB....
He can't be denied. To me he is a certified QB Doom machine. A QB sack is as important as a Interception by a CB so in regard to Champ Bailey he is worth every penny.

Pay the man.

I do not see a sack as being equivalent to an interception; a sack changes field position whereas an interception is a change of possession.

gyldenlove
06-10-2010, 09:22 AM
I think it's fairly well documented that he's still a work in progress as an LB in the broader sense. Clearly, he's a highly effective pass rusher. I think he's worth a big contract, though... even if he's got some things to work out. We need impact players, and he's clearly one of them.

Looking purely at the stats, it seems to be easier to teach a pass rusher to be a linebacker than to teach a linebacker to be a pass rusher.

Paladin
06-10-2010, 09:23 AM
Ya know, it takes just a little heat to get all the little molecules to bouncing off each other.....

Every team is giving the same letter to their unsigned RFAs. Sounds like it has to do with League policy and procedure, and less with Broncos' negotiation tactics. But, since none of us are privey to the doings at Dove Valley, it seems silly to use all your energy being huffy and irked. Besides, if Doom was so desireable, why did he not get one offer? Maybe there are other circumnstances?

Kaylore
06-10-2010, 09:26 AM
This is a matter of business policy. You have to let it be known that this is how every circumstance of an RFA not signing their tender will be handled. If you start making exceptions, then you start running into problems down the line. I'd be shocked if Elvis and his agent hadn't already discussed this with the team and weren't expecting it. This is just trying to make news out of no news.

This. Kuper signed his deal so he could practice with some kind of backup if he got hurt during OTA's. The Broncos are probably required to do this and Dumervil will be signed to a long term deal before training camp starts.

Given that these letters are going around, it makes the Charger's issue a little less severe, though I guess we got rid of the RFA's we didn't want and are signing the rest to long term deals, so I suppose after Marshall and Boldin got paid, Jackson is still going to be pretty pissed off.

The Joker
06-10-2010, 09:32 AM
Idiots.

Bowlin is broke.

The entire 06 draft class was traded for cap room.

Doom is the final straw.

McDaniels will be gone by Nowember.

14-2 with the schedule.

Los Broncos
06-10-2010, 09:47 AM
All of you assclowns have NO IDEA what is going on behind the scenes (nor do I)... Until Elvis Dumervil comes out and says, "This is a total slap in the face," you are wringing your hands over nothing. Nobody knows how negotiations are going behind the scenes, or how the Broncos and Dumervil's agent are interacting. So - let's hold on a bit before declaring that the sky is indeed falling...

:notworthy

footstepsfrom#27
06-10-2010, 09:50 AM
Thanks for everything Doom...

http://www.blackbirdnation.com/images/TPryce4536.jpg

AlienBronco
06-10-2010, 09:53 AM
I do not see a sack as being equivalent to an interception; a sack changes field position whereas an interception is a change of possession.

You are right they are not the same, but pressure by sack masters like Doom not only creates sacks, but also change field position by forced fumbles, and interceptions due QB trying to hurry up a throw so to avoid one.

lostknight
06-10-2010, 09:57 AM
Are you really so stupid that you don't realize that this is just standard business practice?

Spoken by someone who clearly defines standard business process as the bend over and rape that Walmart and McDonalds do.

I, on the other hand, manage a set of very well paid professionals who are in the top 1% of their field. And I can tell you, that when someone does a number of goodwill actions during negotiation, the way you respond if you really want to keep that talent is not by pulling 100k off the offer.

Evlis has gone out of his way. He knows that he is in a sucky position because of the RFA. He also knows that this team has no problem trading away talent for more modestly placed talent. He showed up at practice and signed a waiver that left him exposed in case of injury. That took balls. This doesn't. It's just a bad faith experiment by rookies in the front office who has systematically ****ed one thing after another up.

I never had a problem with them canning Shanahan. The Goodman's departure on the other hand has been a disaster. Almost everything negative that people lay at Josh McDaniel's feet has to do with how poor this front office is.


my God you are ****ing dumb
Riiiiiiiiigght. Welcome to my ignore list.

Rabb
06-10-2010, 10:00 AM
well I guess I won't reply then since he can't read it...he showed me

Rabb
06-10-2010, 10:05 AM
From ESPN Indsider...

Awkward puns aside, 27-year-old Donald Penn (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10062) has become one of the steadiest blind-side pass protectors in the league since taking over the starting left tackle job for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=tam). However, as you might be able to tell from his age, he's fallen into the RFA trap this offseason, slated to make $3.168 million in the 2010 season once he signs his tender offer.
Penn and his agent are seeking a long-term deal with the Bucs, and according to what Scott Reynolds of Pewter Report (http://pewterreport.com/articles/view/7030) passed along on May 14, a holdout is possible if there is not sufficient progress made in that regard. The asking price is reportedly in the neighborhood of $6 million per season; however, as Reynolds notes, if Penn excels in 2010, that price might go up when the LT reaches free agency in 2011.
On Thursday, Charlie Campbell of Pewter Report indicated that like several other unsigned RFAs, Penn has officially been told by the Bucs that they will reduce his offer by $100,000 (http://www.pewterreport.com/articles/view/7081) if he does not sign by the June 15 deadline. Not a huge discount, but 100K is 100K, so it might be enough of a threat to get Penn to commit.
As Stephen F. Holder of the St. Petersburg Times (http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/standoff-may-create-future-hole-at-tackle-for-tampa-bay-buccaneers/1095324) writes, if and when Penn signs his tender and re-joins the team, they might face another tough decision in 2011, including the option of franchising Penn, which could run them in the neighborhood of $10 million for that season. The franchise tag number for an offensive lineman for 2010 is $10.731 million, and will probably increase for 2011, depending on the CBA situation.


different position I know, but same situation...so please, to all the chicken little FO blaming bitches, please calm down and try again

TonyR
06-10-2010, 10:09 AM
Terrell Suggs is the most recent signing of a similar type player that I can think of.


I'm not suggesting Elvis will go down the same path as Suggs but this is a cautionary tale nonetheless.


Suggs' absence raises eyebrows
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on June 9, 2010 10:25 AM ET
Ravens defender Terrell Suggs started his offseason apologetically, promising he would never put up a sluggish season like the one before. He hasn't been seen since.

Suggs has sat out every Organized Team Activity. So has Ray Lewis, Trevor Pryce, and Willis McGahee, but Suggs' absence is the most notable.

After signing a huge deal with $38.1 million guaranteed last year, Suggs showed up for work during training camp out of shape. He never caught up.

"One year [after the contract], Suggs hasn't shown the Ravens anything, except perhaps that they overpaid to keep him. Indeed, he was a better player before his payday than after it," Baltimore Sun columnist Ken Murray writes.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/09/suggs-absence-raises-eyebrows/

Popps
06-10-2010, 10:13 AM
Looking purely at the stats, it seems to be easier to teach a pass rusher to be a linebacker than to teach a linebacker to be a pass rusher.

Exactly. I thought he played pretty well overall. Clearly great at getting after the QB, but there were a lot of holes in the run D, and he's got work to do, there. Hopefully the presence of some more talented linemen will allow us to rotate a bit more effectively... and hopefully he'll take a big step as an overall LB in his 2nd season in that role. I really believe he will.

Rabb
06-10-2010, 10:16 AM
I'm not suggesting Elvis will go down the same path as Suggs but this is a cautionary tale nonetheless.


Suggs' absence raises eyebrows
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on June 9, 2010 10:25 AM ET
Ravens defender Terrell Suggs started his offseason apologetically, promising he would never put up a sluggish season like the one before. He hasn't been seen since.

Suggs has sat out every Organized Team Activity. So has Ray Lewis, Trevor Pryce, and Willis McGahee, but Suggs' absence is the most notable.

After signing a huge deal with $38.1 million guaranteed last year, Suggs showed up for work during training camp out of shape. He never caught up.

"One year [after the contract], Suggs hasn't shown the Ravens anything, except perhaps that they overpaid to keep him. Indeed, he was a better player before his payday than after it," Baltimore Sun columnist Ken Murray writes.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/09/suggs-absence-raises-eyebrows/

and while I believe Elvis is not that kind of guy, you are 100% right...and every team in their right mind considers all of this I bet which is why they don't just offer something right away

of course, people will still find a way to blame McD for the delay

TonyR
06-10-2010, 10:22 AM
Thanks for everything Doom...


Aren't you the guy who used to champion the "Bowlen is broke" agenda? Do you still feel the same way or have circumstances changed? Curious.

gyldenlove
06-10-2010, 10:25 AM
Exactly. I thought he played pretty well overall. Clearly great at getting after the QB, but there were a lot of holes in the run D, and he's got work to do, there. Hopefully the presence of some more talented linemen will allow us to rotate a bit more effectively... and hopefully he'll take a big step as an overall LB in his 2nd season in that role. I really believe he will.

I think he will be better this year from a linebacker perspective. Clearly he is never going to be Al Wilson on the outside, but I think with more consistent line play he will be a bigger factor on more plays and will be more consistent in the run game. I think having Wink Martindale as DC will help as well, he knows Elvis well and knows how to tailor the scheme to maximize his impact.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-10-2010, 10:34 AM
Aren't you the guy who used to champion the "Bowlen is broke" agenda? Do you still feel the same way or have circumstances changed? Curious.

The bowlen doesnt have money agenda still friggin applies. I was (am) in this camp, but started the theory when he was staring down multiple (Cutler, Marshall, Doom, Kuper, Scheffler) extensions. Then after Cutler got traded, he was looking at 4 number ones in two years on top of Marshall, Doom, Scheff, Kupe, Harris..whoever else. Now that a lot of that promised salary has gone away (Marshall, Scheff, one of those 1's), he has money for some extensions. He also might be doing better financially anyway, it seems like the rich are at the moment. I never personally implied he has NO money, but doesn't have the Uncle Scrooge-esque money bin that he used to.

Kaylore
06-10-2010, 10:35 AM
Idiots.

Bowlin is broke.

The entire 06 draft class was traded for cap room.

Doom is the final straw.

McDaniels will be gone by Nowember.

14-2 with the schedule.

Damn.

If I ever imagined thisa incompetence, I would of left the bore

It's not that hard to see Beavis in a well

You think this Doom likes being traded?

I will destryoy.

Just wait you **********

were not going aynwhere

15-1 with this schedule

there's a dead bird in my loafer

OBF1
06-10-2010, 10:49 AM
Kaylore has been possed by Mock....god save us all

footstepsfrom#27
06-10-2010, 10:52 AM
Aren't you the guy who used to champion the "Bowlen is broke" agenda? Do you still feel the same way or have circumstances changed? Curious.
I never said he was broke, that's your spin. I said, based on the available evidence that we have access to through court documents filed in the lawsuit with Edgar Kaiser, that he was heavily leveraged, and has been since he first bought the team. That's a fact born out by his own admission and you can deny it if all you wish but the court docs prove it. But it has little to nothing to do with contract negotiations for Dumervil or any other player. Don't blame me because Bowlen made stupid decisions in terms of how he financed his purchase of the team.

If we lose Dumervil it won't be because Pat is broke. That's a straw man. Denver has a recent history of not being willing to pay some of it's star defensive players. Hopefully under McD it's handled differently than it was under Mike, but this report isn't exactly promising so I have fingers crossed.

meangene
06-10-2010, 11:35 AM
and while I believe Elvis is not that kind of guy, you are 100% right...and every team in their right mind considers all of this I bet which is why they don't just offer something right away

of course, people will still find a way to blame McD for the delay

I have never meant to suggest that the FO should just roll over and give Doom what he asks for or that the deal needed to get done yesterday. However, they have clearly indicated that they recognize he is an elite player and someone they want to sign to a long-term deal. The point of the thread was Doom was getting the threatening letter that teams around the league are sending to RFA's to exercise some degree of leverage. My feeling was that, given the cordial nature of negotiations, the manner in which it has been handled discreetly on both sides, the goodwill Doom has shown in attending OTA's, never hinting at a holdout, and even indicating specifically that he would sign the original tender, maybe the team should have considered reciprocating that by not sending him the letter. Sometimes, with a guy like Doom, showing some goodwill could go a long way.

HEAV
06-10-2010, 11:36 AM
Wow Mike Klis writes something bad about the Broncos...ground breaking...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-10-2010, 11:50 AM
I have never meant to suggest that the FO should just roll over and give Doom what he asks for or that the deal needed to get done yesterday. However, they have clearly indicated that they recognize he is an elite player and someone they want to sign to a long-term deal. The point of the thread was Doom was getting the threatening letter that teams around the league are sending to RFA's to exercise some degree of leverage. My feeling was that, given the cordial nature of negotiations, the manner in which it has been handled discreetly on both sides, the goodwill Doom has shown in attending OTA's, never hinting at a holdout, and even indicating specifically that he would sign the original tender, maybe the team should have considered reciprocating that by not sending him the letter. Sometimes, with a guy like Doom, showing some goodwill could go a long way.

I get what you're saying, but it seems to me that over the next couple of days you're going to hear about every team sending these letters to their yet-unsigned FAs. It's covering your ass from a legal perspective (so the player can't come back and claim they didn't know the team could do this), and given that different teams are sending the same letter makes me think that this is a league mandate.

Que
06-10-2010, 11:57 AM
pay the man

Rabb
06-10-2010, 12:02 PM
I get what you're saying, but it seems to me that over the next couple of days you're going to hear about every team sending these letters to their yet-unsigned FAs. It's covering your ass from a legal perspective (so the player can't come back and claim they didn't know the team could do this), and given that different teams are sending the same letter makes me think that this is a league mandate.

agree, totally

and @meangene I wasn't referring to you, I am talking about the Nancies that are using this as a chance to further their argument that McD is somehow behind this...I actually agree with your point other than I don't think this will hurt anything

the letter was a standard one, just as Mr. MooseGuy stated probably mandated and a total CYA move despite actual intentions

I would even go as far as saying, I bet they communicated with Doom about the letter before it was sent and the purpose of it

They'll take care of him

TonyR
06-10-2010, 12:03 PM
I never said...

My intention wasn't to put you in a defensive posture but rather to see if recent events had at all allayed any concerns you may have regarding Bowlen's finances. The events I refer to would most notably include consecutive years drafting twice in the first round, including moving up to take a QB this year; and consecutive years of spending rather heavily in FA. Not the actions of an organization in financial distress.

baja
06-10-2010, 12:06 PM
To all you guys saying "just pay the man". Doom is one demential, he doesn't deserve top five money we should not over pay one player because it diminishes the team's ability to sign top second tier players team wide.

Out with the model of a few highly paid super stars and filling out the roster with very average players because there is no cap room left to sign the really good football players that are a notch below super star status.

This is McD's team concept, get used to it.

Kaylore
06-10-2010, 12:07 PM
Footsteps has been gone, so his complete ignorance is excused.

Bowlen isn't hurting for money and his recent spending spree proves this.

Myth: Bowlen fired Shanahan to save money b/c he can't afford to pay him and hiring McDaniels for less money is evidence of that.

Fact: firing Shanahan was more expensive than not firing him. He's now paying two head coaches at the same time and will still next year.

Myth: Bowlen traded away the first round pick last year b/c he couldn't afford two firsts. This was completely debunked when the Broncos FO worked the draft to get both Thomas and Tebow in the first. Their combined signing bonuses and salaries are both higher than if they had taken a player at their spot at 11.

Myth: Broncos are going to a clippers model where they will try to draft and develop talent and when they emerge as good players, then trade all their good players for more picks b/c they have no money to sign any of them.

Fact: The Broncos signed Kuper and are signing Dumervil as we speak. This "article" isn't about the Broncos playing hard ball. It's a procedural move only. Dumervil already signed his injury protection contract and they are going to lock him up long term. Both sides have said this. Denver will sign the players it likes based on on and off the field performance. Players that don't fit will be shipped out but the ones they like they will indeed pay.

To conclude, Bowlen is spending more money, not less and he is not "broke" as they say. Footsteps never read the documents. He read "about" the documents in an article.

jhns
06-10-2010, 12:12 PM
To all you guys saying "just pay the man". Doom is one demential, he doesn't deserve top five money we should not over pay one player because it diminishes the team's ability to sign top second tier players team wide.

Out with the model of a few highly paid super stars and filling out the roster with very average players because there is no cap room left to sign the really good football players that are a notch below super star status.

This is McD's team concept, get used to it.

So what will your spin be when they pay him top 5 money? Just because they aren't paying him right now doesn't mean they aren't going to pay him.

baja
06-10-2010, 12:15 PM
So what will your spin be when they pay him top 5 money? Just because they aren't paying him right now doesn't mean they aren't going to pay him.

How does one "spin" one's opinion.

If they sign him to top five money fine it's not my money. I just don't think he is worth it.

Is that going to be OK with you?

jhns
06-10-2010, 12:19 PM
How does one "spin" one's opinion.

If they sign him to top five money fine it's not my money. I just don't think he is worth it.

Is that going to be OK with you?

I wasn't talking about the opinion part. You stated a bunch of crap about a team philosophy that McDaniels is using after you stated your opinion. That is the part I was talking about.

I would have responded to about 20 posts in this thread by now if it was just me having a problem with the opinion that he isn't worth the money.

Taco John
06-10-2010, 12:20 PM
To all you guys saying "just pay the man". Doom is one demential, he doesn't deserve top five money we should not over pay one player because it diminishes the team's ability to sign top second tier players team wide.

Out with the model of a few highly paid super stars and filling out the roster with very average players because there is no cap room left to sign the really good football players that are a notch below super star status.

This is McD's team concept, get used to it.


Lawrence Taylor and Derrick Thomas were one dimensional.

Kaylore
06-10-2010, 12:27 PM
Lawrence Taylor and Derrick Thomas were one dimensional.

Yeah like I said before, his one dimension is one of the best and hardest things a football player can do.

baja
06-10-2010, 12:34 PM
I wasn't talking about the opinion part. You stated a bunch of crap about a team philosophy that McDaniels is using after you stated your opinion. That is the part I was talking about.

I would have responded to about 20 posts in this thread by now if it was just me having a problem with the opinion that he isn't worth the money.

A bunch of crap?

You don't agree that McD's game plan for the roster is to create a well balanced team void of high dollar super stars and the necessary low paid bottom feeders to fit under the cap.

I think we will sign Doom but I bet the contract is not a shocker. It will be like Kup's - fair to both sides. IMO.

baja
06-10-2010, 12:41 PM
Lawrence Taylor and Derrick Thomas were one dimensional.

Lots of teams Go the "over paid super star route" what I'm pointing out is that is not McD's stated game plan. I think dumping Marshall & Cutler was in part due to that philosophy.

BTW you're not comparing LT to Doom are you.

If we had an LT my bet is McD would trade him for mad compensation and use the picks/players to make a more balanced team.

I bet there are a lot of NE fans that are pissed that they traded Seymore to Oakland.

jhns
06-10-2010, 12:45 PM
You don't agree that McD's game plan for the roster is to create a well balanced team void of high dollar super stars and the necessary low paid bottom feeders to fit under the cap.


No, I don't agree. Champ makes more this year than most of the league makes. Dum is going to be the first star player this regime has had a chance to resign. We will see what they do. I just don't get how you come up with this theory when there is nothing to support it. Not having star players to pay is different than not wanting to pay big money to star players.

In other words, I don't agree with you at all right now but may agree with you later when there is actually some evidence of this.

baja
06-10-2010, 12:53 PM
No, I don't agree. Champ makes more this year than most of the league makes. Dum is going to be the first star player this regime has had a chance to resign. We will see what they do. I just don't get how you come up with this theory when there is nothing to support it. Not having star players to pay is different than not wanting to pay big money to star players.

In other words, I don't agree with you at all right now but may agree with you later when there is actually some evidence of this.

Are you kidding? We could have "paid" Marshall like so many here were screaming to do

We could have sucked up to Cutler and gave him a shinny new contract to make him happy. We had two great chances to sign top talent and did not.

baja
06-10-2010, 12:55 PM
I think we will sign Doom but not for the money some here are calling for.

bowtown
06-10-2010, 12:55 PM
Are you kidding? We could have "paid" Marshall like so many here were screaming to do

We could have sucked up to Cutler and gave him a shinny new contract to make him happy. We had two great chances to sign top talent and did not.

I think I know someone who missed you.

jhns
06-10-2010, 01:08 PM
Are you kidding? We could have "paid" Marshall like so many here were screaming to do

We could have sucked up to Cutler and gave him a shinny new contract to make him happy. We had two great chances to sign top talent and did not.

That is some pretty lame evidence. Cutler never asked for another contract here. That has nothing to do with why he is gone. Why would they give him a ton of money when they just had to say they weren't going to trade him? That wouldn't even make sense. "We can't tell you we won't trade you but here is a huge deal that we can't get out of."

Marshall had tons of off field problems. He was traded because we didn't want to pay him but that just shows we don't want to pay huge dollars to guys that don't follow the rules.

None of this shows the team doesn't want to pay big money to star players that do everything McDaniels way.

The Joker
06-10-2010, 01:32 PM
Dumervil deserves something in the ballpark of what Suggs got, no doubt.

If he wants Ware money, which I doubt he does, then you certainly have to reassess the situation.

As has been said, he is one dimensional but football is all about having guys who can perform different roles and do it well. Teams carry a guy whose sole job is to bend over and throw a football back between his legs for crying out loud.

If you can not get to the opposition QB, you will lose.

We let Dumervil go and I might just have to choke some bitches.

RaiderH8r
06-10-2010, 02:01 PM
Trade him. He clearly values himself higher than the team. He's hit his peak anyway.

Mediator12
06-10-2010, 02:56 PM
Wow, for YEARS DEN lacked a pure pass rusher. Not since Pryce, Berry, and Hayward played together in 2003 has DEN had any real pass rush. Now, we get a guy who leads the NFL in sacks and is pretty high in pressures as well and people are really calling him a one trick pony who does not deserve to get paid ???

Dwight Freeney is a one trick pony and he has a real Contract. Did You all see what happened to Indy's Defense without Freeney and Mathis down the stretch and in the SB? They failed to get pressure and in three weeks they went from a top 5 Pass defense and top 3 in Points allowed, to a barely top 16 pass defense and barely top 10 points allowed. Then, with Freeney not effective after halftime in the SB their pass defense went to hell and instead of giving up 2 FG's they gave up three TD's.

Every team needs at least one legitimate pass rush threat, and 2 is preferable. Not every NFL team even has one Legit Pass rusher on its roster, and they are probably the hardest position to scout and develop outside of QB. We all saw how terrible this defense could be even with Dumervil as a pass Rusher. What happens if he leaves? I am not ready for that again. Hell, my profile still talks about needing a pass rush!

So, Please for the Love of God, stop crying about paying a top 5 pass rusher. Who Knows when DEN will get another player with the impact he has for this team? No one. I am not ready to live without a legit Pass rush again on defense.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-10-2010, 03:00 PM
Wow, for YEARS DEN lacked a pure pass rusher. Not since Pryce, Berry, and Hayward played together in 2003 has DEN had any real pass rush. Now, we get a guy who leads the NFL in sacks and is pretty high in pressures as well and people are really calling him a one trick pony who does not deserve to get paid ???

Dwight Freeney is a one trick pony and he has a real Contract. Did You all see what happened to Indy's Defense without Freeney and Mathis down the stretch and in the SB? They failed to get pressure and in three weeks they went from a top 5 Pass defense and top 3 in Points allowed, to a barely top 16 pass defense and barely top 10 points allowed. Then, with Freeney not effective after halftime in the SB their pass defense went to hell and instead of giving up 2 FG's they gave up three TD's.

Every team needs at least one legitimate pass rush threat, and 2 is preferable. Not every NFL team even has one Legit Pass rusher on its roster, and they are probably the hardest position to scout and develop outside of QB. We all saw how terrible this defense could be even with Dumervil as a pass Rusher. What happens if he leaves? I am not ready for that again. Hell, my profile still talks about needing a pass rush!

So, Please for the Love of God, stop crying about paying a top 5 pass rusher. Who Knows when DEN will get another player with the impact he has for this team? No one. I am not ready to live without a legit Pass rush again on defense.

Where did anyone say he didn't deserve to get paid? I think we all want him here, we all want him to have a good contract. But is he going to get top-notch money when he can't stop the run? I don't think so.

Maybe he'll work on it and get better. Maybe he won't. Fact is, he's currently something of a liability against the run, and you don't pay top money to a liability.

Unless your name is Mike Shanahan, and Marlon McCree is available.

kamakazi_kal
06-10-2010, 03:06 PM
Wow, for YEARS DEN lacked a pure pass rusher. Not since Pryce, Berry, and Hayward played together in 2003 has DEN had any real pass rush. Now, we get a guy who leads the NFL in sacks and is pretty high in pressures as well and people are really calling him a one trick pony who does not deserve to get paid ???

Dwight Freeney is a one trick pony and he has a real Contract. Did You all see what happened to Indy's Defense without Freeney and Mathis down the stretch and in the SB? They failed to get pressure and in three weeks they went from a top 5 Pass defense and top 3 in Points allowed, to a barely top 16 pass defense and barely top 10 points allowed. Then, with Freeney not effective after halftime in the SB their pass defense went to hell and instead of giving up 2 FG's they gave up three TD's.

Every team needs at least one legitimate pass rush threat, and 2 is preferable. Not every NFL team even has one Legit Pass rusher on its roster, and they are probably the hardest position to scout and develop outside of QB. We all saw how terrible this defense could be even with Dumervil as a pass Rusher. What happens if he leaves? I am not ready for that again. Hell, my profile still talks about needing a pass rush!

So, Please for the Love of God, stop crying about paying a top 5 pass rusher. Who Knows when DEN will get another player with the impact he has for this team? No one. I am not ready to live without a legit Pass rush again on defense.

The NE way is to not pay but, trade away. :sunshine:

footstepsfrom#27
06-10-2010, 03:15 PM
My intention wasn't to put you in a defensive posture but rather to see if recent events had at all allayed any concerns you may have regarding Bowlen's finances. The events I refer to would most notably include consecutive years drafting twice in the first round, including moving up to take a QB this year; and consecutive years of spending rather heavily in FA. Not the actions of an organization in financial distress.
Considering the combined initial rookie salaries of the guy's we've taken in the first round don't even equal what Dumervil is asking for, I'd have to say that has no real influence on my thinking. I'd be much more impressed if Bowlen disolved his numerous shell companies that he's hiding the Bronco ownership behind and came out with some kind of announcement that he's reached agreement to restructure his debt load, and second that Kaiser's been convinced to waive the right of first refusal he holds. Those issues are infinitely more important than whether we have two first round picks to sign or what we're paying out in free agency.

Unless they're at the top of the draft rookie salaries are (relatively) low anyway. Will Bowlen pay what's needed to retain star players however? That's what I'm more interested in, not how he many free agents or draft picks we signed. Dumervil is the first real test...there are no character issues here to be used as excuses, he's not holding out, he's in camp, nobody is accusing him of not returning phone calls, etc...yet we're low balling this guy and playing games with reducing his check if he doesn't agree to pay for peanuts. For a guy who led the NFL in sacks while playing a new position in a new scheme...that doesn't seem very wise to me. I can't help but wonder if Ayers was drafted to replace him instead of complement him.

footstepsfrom#27
06-10-2010, 03:32 PM
Footsteps has been gone, so his complete ignorance is excused.

Bowlen isn't hurting for money and his recent spending spree proves this.

Myth: Bowlen fired Shanahan to save money b/c he can't afford to pay him and hiring McDaniels for less money is evidence of that.

Fact: firing Shanahan was more expensive than not firing him. He's now paying two head coaches at the same time and will still next year.

Myth: Bowlen traded away the first round pick last year b/c he couldn't afford two firsts. This was completely debunked when the Broncos FO worked the draft to get both Thomas and Tebow in the first. Their combined signing bonuses and salaries are both higher than if they had taken a player at their spot at 11.

Myth: Broncos are going to a clippers model where they will try to draft and develop talent and when they emerge as good players, then trade all their good players for more picks b/c they have no money to sign any of them.

Fact: The Broncos signed Kuper and are signing Dumervil as we speak. This "article" isn't about the Broncos playing hard ball. It's a procedural move only. Dumervil already signed his injury protection contract and they are going to lock him up long term. Both sides have said this. Denver will sign the players it likes based on on and off the field performance. Players that don't fit will be shipped out but the ones they like they will indeed pay.

To conclude, Bowlen is spending more money, not less and he is not "broke" as they say. Footsteps never read the documents. He read "about" the documents in an article.
Since I never said Bowlen was "broke", nor word one about saving money with McD instead of Shanny, limiting the number of top draft picks or going to a "Clippers model" to develop the team on the cheap...it appears you're the one who is ignorant, and yet you've been here all along...

Go figure.

But yes Kahn...you are so correct. Believe it or not I've not decided to hop on a plane and actually visit the 6 or 7 different states where Pat's shell companies have documents stored in courthouses or other government offices, nor have I tried to obtain the Kaiser lawsuit material for first hand examination...you got me...I simply researched what others discovered through an intensive investigation and reported it here. Clearly that makes the story bogus and the information untrustworthy since I didn't do so.

Don't be such a dumbass. If the facts were bogus Bowlen would have probably sent the fan base a personal letter by now...dont' ya think?

Shoot the messenger if you wish...the message doesn't change though.

24champ
06-10-2010, 03:32 PM
Considering the combined initial rookie salaries of the guy's we've taken in the first round don't even equal what Dumervil is asking for, I'd have to say that has no real influence on my thinking. I'd be much more impressed if Bowlen disolved his numerous shell companies that he's hiding the Bronco ownership behind and came out with some kind of announcement that he's reached agreement to restructure his debt load, and second that Kaiser's been convinced to waive the right of first refusal he holds. Those issues are infinitely more important than whether we have two first round picks to sign or what we're paying out in free agency.

Unless they're at the top of the draft rookie salaries are (relatively) low anyway. Will Bowlen pay what's needed to retain star players however? That's what I'm more interested in, not how he many free agents or draft picks we signed. Dumervil is the first real test...there are no character issues here to be used as excuses, he's not holding out, he's in camp, nobody is accusing him of not returning phone calls, etc...yet we're low balling this guy and playing games with reducing his check if he doesn't agree to pay for peanuts. For a guy who led the NFL in sacks while playing a new position in a new scheme...that doesn't seem very wise to me. I can't help but wonder if Ayers was drafted to replace him instead of complement him.

Pretty much nailed it.

Also the Broncos are 19th in the league in total salary according to Fox Sports.

DomCasual
06-10-2010, 03:38 PM
We don't really need to spend a lot of money on pass rushers.

Signed,

Mike Shanahan

Vegas_Bronco
06-10-2010, 03:57 PM
Highest paid players ever will be those who have negogiated their contracts within the past 2-3 years. NFL still has no answer for the CBA and economy is not improving at the same rate it was 5-6 years ago.

This is going to be the common trend for the next 2-3 years resulting in many more players holding out.

Truth is, value is derived from growth and things aren't growing much anymore....so why should the ridiculous contracts continue.

Dumervil is just at the peak of a new downturn in NFL revenue and regrettably is going to suffer b/c of it. My advice, take your money while you can b/c in 10 years the top players will be jumping up and down for a 3mil/yr contract. Owners aren't dumb...they know the direction of things.

baja
06-10-2010, 04:02 PM
Highest paid players ever will be those who have negogiated their contracts within the past 2-3 years. NFL still has no answer for the CBA and economy is not improving at the same rate it was 5-6 years ago.

This is going to be the common trend for the next 2-3 years resulting in many more players holding out.

Truth is, value is derived from growth and things aren't growing much anymore....so why should the ridiculous contracts continue.

Dumervil is just at the peak of a new downturn in NFL revenue and regrettably is going to suffer b/c of it. My advice, take your money while you can b/c in 10 years the top players will be jumping up and down for a 3mil/yr contract. Owners aren't dumb...they know the direction of things.

Great point. The price of everything else will be less too. Except petroleum products.

hambone13
06-10-2010, 04:09 PM
Since I never said Bowlen was "broke", nor word one about saving money with McD instead of Shanny, limiting the number of top draft picks or going to a "Clippers model" to develop the team on the cheap...it appears you're the one who is ignorant, and yet you've been here all along...

Go figure.

But yes Kahn...you are so correct. Believe it or not I've not decided to hop on a plane and actually visit the 6 or 7 different states where Pat's shell companies have documents stored in courthouses or other government offices, nor have I tried to obtain the Kaiser lawsuit material for first hand examination...you got me...I simply researched what others discovered through an intensive investigation and reported it here. Clearly that makes the story bogus and the information untrustworthy since I didn't do so.

Don't be such a dumbass. If the facts were bogus Bowlen would have probably sent the fan base a personal letter by now...dont' ya think?

Shoot the messenger if you wish...the message doesn't change though.

Welcome back Footsteps.

Dagmar
06-10-2010, 04:42 PM
Considering the combined initial rookie salaries of the guy's we've taken in the first round don't even equal what Dumervil is asking for, I'd have to say that has no real influence on my thinking. I'd be much more impressed if Bowlen disolved his numerous shell companies that he's hiding the Bronco ownership behind and came out with some kind of announcement that he's reached agreement to restructure his debt load, and second that Kaiser's been convinced to waive the right of first refusal he holds. Those issues are infinitely more important than whether we have two first round picks to sign or what we're paying out in free agency.

Unless they're at the top of the draft rookie salaries are (relatively) low anyway. Will Bowlen pay what's needed to retain star players however? That's what I'm more interested in, not how he many free agents or draft picks we signed. Dumervil is the first real test...there are no character issues here to be used as excuses, he's not holding out, he's in camp, nobody is accusing him of not returning phone calls, etc...yet we're low balling this guy and playing games with reducing his check if he doesn't agree to pay for peanuts. For a guy who led the NFL in sacks while playing a new position in a new scheme...that doesn't seem very wise to me. I can't help but wonder if Ayers was drafted to replace him instead of complement him.

Where does it say we are trying to get Elvis to "play for peanuts"?

footstepsfrom#27
06-10-2010, 05:50 PM
Where does it say we are trying to get Elvis to "play for peanuts"?
"Peanuts" being a relative term obviously...but a 10% pay cut wouldn't be appreciated by anyone, regardless of what they're already making, which is what they're threatening if he doesn't take the current offer. My point is, he's worth than they're willing to do at this point. Hopefully this is all preliminary posturing and works itself out in the negotiation process but the recent history of letting pass rushers leave here has me nervous.

footstepsfrom#27
06-10-2010, 05:56 PM
Highest paid players ever will be those who have negogiated their contracts within the past 2-3 years. NFL still has no answer for the CBA and economy is not improving at the same rate it was 5-6 years ago.

This is going to be the common trend for the next 2-3 years resulting in many more players holding out.

Truth is, value is derived from growth and things aren't growing much anymore....so why should the ridiculous contracts continue.

Dumervil is just at the peak of a new downturn in NFL revenue and regrettably is going to suffer b/c of it. My advice, take your money while you can b/c in 10 years the top players will be jumping up and down for a 3mil/yr contract. Owners aren't dumb...they know the direction of things.
I was just having this conversation a few minutes ago with a Cowboy fan down here. You really have to wonder how long pro sports salaries can continue to rise, (not to mention the ticket prices) because at some point they are going to out prie the market are they not? It costs $40-60 just to PARK for a Cowboys game now...pizza's are rumored at $90 inside the stadium and bottle water is $5 a bottle. Gotta think this house of cards has a collapse coming somewhere in the near future...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-10-2010, 06:06 PM
i'm not sure what's so hard to understand about this.

This is a league-wide thing. Watch. Over the next several days, you'll hear more reports about more teams sending these same letters to more unsigned RFAs. It's CYA.

I don't think it's a negotiating ploy or an attempt to get Doom to work for peanuts.

footstepsfrom#27
06-10-2010, 06:10 PM
i'm not sure what's so hard to understand about this.

This is a league-wide thing. Watch. Over the next several days, you'll hear more reports about more teams sending these same letters to more unsigned RFAs. It's CYA.

I don't think it's a negotiating ploy or an attempt to get Doom to work for peanuts.
Well let's hope they work around this because if you think this D sucked before, wait till we see it minus our only serious pass rusher. Who else do we have that we can count on to bring pressure?

TonyR
06-10-2010, 07:00 PM
...the recent history of letting pass rushers leave here has me nervous.

Who? When? Are you referring to guys Shanahan let go years ago?

Vegas_Bronco
06-10-2010, 07:07 PM
Who? When? Are you referring to guys Shanahan let go years ago?

I didn't understand it either. We got Trevor Pryce's best years and Shanny brought in some great DE's for the SB years.

broncosteven
06-10-2010, 08:02 PM
Wow, for YEARS DEN lacked a pure pass rusher. Not since Pryce, Berry, and Hayward played together in 2003 has DEN had any real pass rush. Now, we get a guy who leads the NFL in sacks and is pretty high in pressures as well and people are really calling him a one trick pony who does not deserve to get paid ???

Dwight Freeney is a one trick pony and he has a real Contract. Did You all see what happened to Indy's Defense without Freeney and Mathis down the stretch and in the SB? They failed to get pressure and in three weeks they went from a top 5 Pass defense and top 3 in Points allowed, to a barely top 16 pass defense and barely top 10 points allowed. Then, with Freeney not effective after halftime in the SB their pass defense went to hell and instead of giving up 2 FG's they gave up three TD's.

Every team needs at least one legitimate pass rush threat, and 2 is preferable. Not every NFL team even has one Legit Pass rusher on its roster, and they are probably the hardest position to scout and develop outside of QB. We all saw how terrible this defense could be even with Dumervil as a pass Rusher. What happens if he leaves? I am not ready for that again. Hell, my profile still talks about needing a pass rush!

So, Please for the Love of God, stop crying about paying a top 5 pass rusher. Who Knows when DEN will get another player with the impact he has for this team? No one. I am not ready to live without a legit Pass rush again on defense.

I am tired of seeing Pryce still playing well for the Ravens, Berry going to AZ before retiring, and even Hayward all who contributed to their teams well for years while we have had such weak pass rushing teams.

It would really hurt this team if we lost our only pass rush threat.

I don't know of anyone on our D who has the wingspan or pad level of Doom who can get to the QB. I think he has been better in run support at OLB than he was as a 4-3 DE.

footstepsfrom#27
06-10-2010, 08:18 PM
Who? When? Are you referring to guys Shanahan let go years ago?
Pryce, Berry and Hayward all had at least one good year left in them when they left here. Shanahan's gone...but Bowlen isn't. We'll find out pretty soon whether it was all Mike in letting guys go who wanted to get paid on the D-line or not. One thing is sure, that pass rushers are tough to find and if you have one who leads the NFL in sacks and you're smart, you keep him.

gyldenlove
06-10-2010, 08:21 PM
Pryce, Berry and Hayward all had at least one good year left in them when they left here. Shanahan's gone...but Bowlen isn't. We'll find out pretty soon whether it was all Mike in letting guys go who wanted to get paid on the D-line or not. One thing is sure, that pass rushers are tough to find and if you have one who leads the NFL in sacks and you're smart, you keep him.

Pryce was a cap casualty, the way his contract was set up there was no alternative. He was due a cap hit of about 10 mill which would have eaten up more than 10% of our total cap, and because he had renegotiated the year before there wasn't much that could be done short of him taking a massive pay cut.

footstepsfrom#27
06-10-2010, 08:31 PM
Pryce was a cap casualty, the way his contract was set up there was no alternative. He was due a cap hit of about 10 mill which would have eaten up more than 10% of our total cap, and because he had renegotiated the year before there wasn't much that could be done short of him taking a massive pay cut.
I have some sympathy for that, but taken together with the way Shanny tried to piece together bargain basement DL's made up of Browncos and other over-the-hill players, letting three guys go who could play stands in pretty stark contrast to our defensive woes the past few years. When is the last time this team had a dominant defensive line anyway? In any case Dumervil is a young guy with a good attitude who has produced here, so losing him would be doubly painful since he's got several good years left.

baja
06-10-2010, 08:44 PM
Like so many parrots people say over and over "Pay the Man"

I ask what does that mean to you?

Give me a number.

What is the amount of guaranteed money he should get.? How many years?

tsiguy96
06-10-2010, 08:47 PM
I was just having this conversation a few minutes ago with a Cowboy fan down here. You really have to wonder how long pro sports salaries can continue to rise, (not to mention the ticket prices) because at some point they are going to out prie the market are they not? It costs $40-60 just to PARK for a Cowboys game now...pizza's are rumored at $90 inside the stadium and bottle water is $5 a bottle. Gotta think this house of cards has a collapse coming somewhere in the near future...

i guess i just dont understand how players and owners can be this greedy, to justify these costs to the fans of these players that make all this opssible. how can they be so unhappy with 3 million a year that they refuse to even talk to the front office? it blows my mind.

orange&blue87
06-10-2010, 09:00 PM
"Peanuts" being a relative term obviously...but a 10% pay cut wouldn't be appreciated by anyone, regardless of what they're already making, which is what they're threatening if he doesn't take the current offer. My point is, he's worth than they're willing to do at this point. Hopefully this is all preliminary posturing and works itself out in the negotiation process but the recent history of letting pass rushers leave here has me nervous.

It is not a 10% pay cut. They offered a tender, which he hasn't signed, and if he doesn't sign, the tender can be rescinded and he will be offered a 10% raise over last years salary.

I think most would enjoy a 10% raise.

baja
06-10-2010, 09:04 PM
i guess i just dont understand how players and owners can be this greedy, to justify these costs to the fans of these players that make all this opssible. how can they be so unhappy with 3 million a year that they refuse to even talk to the front office? it blows my mind.

Agents, ego and greed.


When only winning matters this is what you get.

peacepipe
06-10-2010, 10:12 PM
i guess i just dont understand how players and owners can be this greedy, to justify these costs to the fans of these players that make all this opssible. how can they be so unhappy with 3 million a year that they refuse to even talk to the front office? it blows my mind.

it's all relative to the field of work your in.

strafen
06-10-2010, 10:12 PM
Seems like what you do is sign it, have a great yr, then try again for the big pay day. Not saying it's fair but it's just how it is.

Wow!!! ROFL!

strafen
06-10-2010, 10:23 PM
Spoken by someone who clearly defines standard business process as the bend over and rape that Walmart and McDonalds do.

I, on the other hand, manage a set of very well paid professionals who are in the top 1% of their field. And I can tell you, that when someone does a number of goodwill actions during negotiation, the way you respond if you really want to keep that talent is not by pulling 100k off the offer.

Evlis has gone out of his way. He knows that he is in a sucky position because of the RFA. He also knows that this team has no problem trading away talent for more modestly placed talent. He showed up at practice and signed a waiver that left him exposed in case of injury. That took balls. This doesn't. It's just a bad faith experiment by rookies in the front office who has systematically ****ed one thing after another up.

I never had a problem with them canning Shanahan. The Goodman's departure on the other hand has been a disaster. Almost everything negative that people lay at Josh McDaniel's feet has to do with how poor this front office is.


Riiiiiiiiigght. Welcome to my ignore list.Not many folks here are willing to see this from Doom's perspective.
The guy showed good faith to show up during OTA's and now this.
come on!
This is not how you deal with Doom's situation.
Let's hope he'll get taken care of...

footstepsfrom#27
06-10-2010, 10:30 PM
It is not a 10% pay cut. They offered a tender, which he hasn't signed, and if he doesn't sign, the tender can be rescinded and he will be offered a 10% raise over last years salary.

I think most would enjoy a 10% raise.
My bad...I misread the original article, but then again, while most of us might be satisfied with that, most of us don't play a sport that reduces your life expectancy and increases your probability of walking with a cane by 50. Just based on the year he had last year in pro sports a 10% raise is a slap in the face, but more to the point why threaten this guy with an extortion attempt like this? What's Dumervil not done to deserve to be paid according to how he's played? He's not a holdout and he's obviously deserving a significant raise. I wish this FO would stop trying to act like they're the Patriots and realize they've got a lot to prove in this town. Cutler and Marshall are guys they were able to isolate in the minds of fans but Dumervil? If he leaves here and winds up in San Diego...let's not even think about the meltdown than ensues. With him we might have a chance at fielding an improved D if some of the young kids step up but losing 17 sacks would be a major step backwards.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-10-2010, 10:56 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncosheadlines/ci_15264797?source=rss&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter#

In their latest round of contract negotiations, the Broncos threw a cut block at NFL sack king Elvis Dumervil.

According to an NFL Players Associations source, the Broncos recently sent a letter to Dumervil stating that if he didn't sign his restricted free-agent tender of $3.168 million by Monday, the team on Tuesday would exercise its right to reduce his 2010 salary to 10 percent above what he made the previous season.

Dumervil made roughly $573,000 last season, which would put his 2010 salary at about $630,000 if he doesn't sign his tender. Would the Broncos really play hardball with their Pro Bowl linebacker by paying him a relative pittance?

The union source said New England's Logan Mankins and San Diego's Vincent Jackson along with Marcus McNeill were among unsigned restricted free agents who received similar letters. Although such letters are not uncommon, and Dumervil had intended to sign his tender this weekend, the Broncos declined to make the goodwill, negotiating gesture of not reducing his salary if he opted not to sign.

After leading the NFL with 17 sacks last season, and recording 43 sacks through his four seasons, Dumervil, 26, wants to be among the league's five highest-paid pass rushers. The Chicago Bears recently gave a $42 million guaranteed contract to Julius Peppers, who is 30 and coming off a 10 1/2-sack season. Last summer, Baltimore signed Terrell Suggs, who was coming off an eight-sack season, to a $38.1 million guarantee.

The next contract deadline involving Dumervil and the Broncos is July 29, when veterans report for training camp. While other restricted free agents have threatened to hold out from training camp if they don't get a new deal, Dumervil has said he hopes to never reach that decision.

He will attend the Broncos' mandatory minicamp Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

Trade him!!! He's a Shannhan Guy. Shannhan left us with no talent.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-11-2010, 06:52 AM
Not many folks here are willing to see this from Doom's perspective.
The guy showed good faith to show up during OTA's and now this.
come on!
This is not how you deal with Doom's situation.
Let's hope he'll get taken care of...

That's bull**** and you know it.

This is a legal move. It's built to ensure that the player can't come back and claim they were not informed of the issues.

Doom will be signed before the season. Probably before training camp. And he will be given a significant raise.

Use your head.

Cito Pelon
06-11-2010, 09:16 AM
Like so many parrots people say over and over "Pay the Man"

I ask what does that mean to you?

Give me a number.

What is the amount of guaranteed money he should get.? How many years?

$35 mil/6 yrs?????

Let's hope both sides negotiate in good faith. Elvis certainly will get a huge raise and bonus, it's probably a matter of how much up front is all they're negotiating about right now, duh.

Sure seems like something will be done before opening day, we'll see how creative they get with the upfront money, the roster bonuses, the performance bonuses.

Mr.Meanie
06-11-2010, 09:29 AM
i guess i just dont understand how players and owners can be this greedy, to justify these costs to the fans of these players that make all this opssible. how can they be so unhappy with 3 million a year that they refuse to even talk to the front office? it blows my mind.

If people are going to line up for it and pay $90 for a pizza, why not charge it? If your employer wouldn't mind paying you $200/hr for the work you do currently, would you be greedy if you accepted it?

As long as people are racing to shell out 6 figures for PSL's and hundreds in concessions per game, the owners are going to charge it. The market sets the price...

baja
06-11-2010, 09:36 AM
If people are going to line up for it and pay $90 for a pizza, why not charge it? If your employer wouldn't mind paying you $200/hr for the work you do currently, would you be greedy if you accepted it?

As long as people are racing to shell out 6 figures for PSL's and hundreds in concessions per game, the owners are going to charge it. The market sets the price...

Those days are over.

Mr.Meanie
06-11-2010, 09:45 AM
Those days are over.

not really

Jetmeck
06-11-2010, 09:49 AM
If McDB screws this up and somehow runs off Doom that should be the end of his rope in Denver. We shall see but I wouldn't be at all surprised.

baja
06-11-2010, 09:49 AM
not really

the days of easy money (credit) are over thus the ever escalating prices are over too.

The bubble has burst you will see.

Jetmeck
06-11-2010, 09:51 AM
If people are going to line up for it and pay $90 for a pizza, why not charge it? If your employer wouldn't mind paying you $200/hr for the work you do currently, would you be greedy if you accepted it?

As long as people are racing to shell out 6 figures for PSL's and hundreds in concessions per game, the owners are going to charge it. The market sets the price...

Let's be honest, stupid people paying out ridiculous prices have put all of us in this situation. It is easily correctable. But then again stupid is everywhere.

Jetmeck
06-11-2010, 09:53 AM
Trade him!!! He's a Shannhan Guy. Shannhan left us with no talent.

See there you go. Damn Shanny had a pitiful offense, let's gut it.

Rabb
06-11-2010, 09:56 AM
If McDB screws this up and somehow runs off Doom that should be the end of his rope in Denver. We shall see but I wouldn't be at all surprised.

yes because as we all know, he is the only one negotiating here

:oyvey:

Mr.Meanie
06-11-2010, 09:58 AM
Let's be honest, stupid people paying out ridiculous prices have put all of us in this situation. It is easily correctable. But then again stupid is everywhere.

How? By charging less than the market would bear? What business in the world does that?

baja
06-11-2010, 10:04 AM
WalMart

McDonalds

Food for less

Target

Ross

Dress for less

shall I go on.

tsiguy96
06-11-2010, 10:05 AM
not really

i think the market for $10 beers and $40 hats is going to bust, but ticket prices will forever be raising i think, because there is millions of fans for both teams hwo are playing that week, someone will buy the tickets.

baja
06-11-2010, 10:08 AM
i think the market for $10 beers and $40 hats is going to bust, but ticket prices will forever be raising i think, because there is millions of fans for both teams hwo are playing that week, someone will buy the tickets.

with the advent of HD TV and Sunday Ticket and Red Zone it's getting to the point that watching at home is the preferred way to see the game for many people.

snowspot66
06-11-2010, 10:09 AM
yes because as we all know, he is the only one negotiating here

:oyvey:

Actually I doubt McDaniels is doing hardly any of the negotiating. McDaniels gets the players he wants. Xanders signs them.

Mr.Meanie
06-11-2010, 10:11 AM
WalMart

McDonalds

Food for less

Target

Ross

Dress for less

shall I go on.

lol

All those places you named charge what the market will bear for THEIR market segment. If Walmart changed their prices to Nordstroms or Whole Foods prices, they would go out of business almost immediately.

Cheap food and products are sold at low prices to the poor because that is their target market. Do you think Walmart is charging "low prices everyday" because they don't want to be "greedy"? Get real. They want to destroy their competition, and if they could charge higher prices and not lose their consumers (like they do when they run their viable competitors out of business in a certain area) they would.

tsiguy96
06-11-2010, 10:12 AM
walmart has been steadily raising prices above inflation rates the last 2 years, fyi.

baja
06-11-2010, 10:15 AM
lol

All those places you named charge what the market will bear for THEIR market segment. If Walmart changed their prices to Nordstroms or Whole Foods prices, they would go out of business almost immediately.

Cheap food and products are sold at low prices to the poor because that is their target market. Do you think Walmart is charging "low prices everyday" because they don't want to be "greedy"? Get real. They want to destroy their competition, and if they could charge higher prices and not lose their consumers (like they do when they run their viable competitors out of business in a certain area) they would.

My point is these are the stores that are enjoying increasing market share and they are taking it away from the higher end stores. People are shopping for value these days.

Mr.Meanie
06-11-2010, 10:16 AM
My point is these are the stores that are enjoying increasing market share and they are taking it away from the higher end stores. People are shopping for value these days.

Oh. Well then on that we agree.

Carry on, thread.

baja
06-11-2010, 10:22 AM
In these days of 70 inch HD TVs and all the great football program options people will watch at home rather than drop 2 or 3 hundred for a game at the stadium and those stadium prices will drop like a rock.

tsiguy96
06-11-2010, 10:26 AM
In these days of 70 inch HD TVs and all the great football program options people will watch at home rather than drop 2 or 3 hundred for a game at the stadium and those stadium prices will drop like a rock.

weve had this discussion a few times here, most people prefer to watch the games at home for most games of the year, especially with prices. you can buy a 47" HDTV for the price of going to a single game in most cases (not even great seats either)

Rabb
06-11-2010, 11:09 AM
Actually I doubt McDaniels is doing hardly any of the negotiating. McDaniels gets the players he wants. Xanders signs them.

:thanku:

Rabb
06-11-2010, 11:11 AM
weve had this discussion a few times here, most people prefer to watch the games at home for most games of the year, especially with prices. you can buy a 47" HDTV for the price of going to a single game in most cases (not even great seats either)

I don't know what seats you are getting, but you got ****ed