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montrose
06-06-2010, 08:03 AM
Because of the recent roster moves.

Offense
QB: Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow
RB: Knowshon Moreno, Correll Buckhalter, JJ Arrington, Lance Ball, Bruce Hall, Toney Baker - Spencer Larsen (FB), Kyle Eckel (FB)
X: Jabar Gaffney, Eric Decker, Alric Arnett, Dicky Lyons
Z: Brandon Lloyd, Demaryius Thomas, Kenny McKinley, Matthew Willis
Y: Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokley, Patrick Honeycutt, Landis Williams
LT: Ryan Clady, Tyler Polumbus, D'Anthony Batiste, Paul Duncan
LG: Seth Olsen, Russ Hochstein
C: JD Walton, Dustin Fry
RG: Chris Kuper, Eric Olsen, Stanley Daniels
RT: Ryan Harris, Zane Beadles, Chris Marinelli
TE: Daniel Graham, Richard Quinn, Marquez Branson, Riar Greer, Nathan Overbay

Defense
LE: Jarvis Green, Ryan McBean, Ben Garland, Jaron Baston
RE: Justin Bannan, Le Kevin Smith, Marcus Thomas, Jeff Stehle
NT: Jamal Williams, Ronald Fields, Chris Baker
WOLB: Elvis Dumervil, Jarvis Moss, Baraka Atkins, Korey Bosworth
SOLB: Robert Ayers, Darrell Reid, Bruce Davis, Jammie Kirlew, Kevin Alexander
WILB: DJ Williams, Wesley Woodyard, Braxton Kelley, Devin Bishop
SILB: Mario Haggan, Akin Ayodele, Nick Greisen
LCB: Champ Bailey, Alphonso Smith, Tony Carter, Syd'Quan Thompson
RCB: Andre Goodman, Nate Jones, Perrish Cox, Cassius Vaughn
FS: Renaldo Hill, Darcel McBath, Kyle McCarthy
SS: Brian Dawkins, David Bruton, Josh Barrett

Special Teams
K: Matt Prater
P: Britton Colquitt, AJ Trapasso
DS: Lonie Paxton

Dedhed
06-06-2010, 09:22 AM
I love that we have upgraded all 3 DL spots on defense. We weren't able to handle the physicality of the top tier teams last year, and I think the upgrades to the DL will help immensely in that regard. Same can be said for the OL. If Harris can stay healthy, and Clady can get healthy our OL should be hugely improved.

I'm also exctied, of all things, about Colquitt. I think he has the talent to add a component to the STs that we've lacked for years. He flashed it in the final pre-season game last year when he placed 3 punts inside the 10 yard line. If he can be consistent in the long punting game I think he can be a weapon in pinning teams deep.

LonghornBronco
06-06-2010, 02:40 PM
I think you meant to put spencer larson as 1st string FB, right?

BMarsh615
06-06-2010, 02:47 PM
LG: Seth Olsen, Russ Hochstein

I think you mean Zane Beadles.

gyldenlove
06-06-2010, 02:53 PM
RE: Justin Bannan, Le Kevin Smith, Marcus Thomas, Jeff Stehle

I have Marcus Thomas ahead of Le Kevin Smith right now, at least he has been playing with Mcbean and Fields.

s0phr0syne
06-06-2010, 03:14 PM
I have Marcus Thomas ahead of Le Kevin Smith right now, at least he has been playing with Mcbean and Fields.


Also Marcus wasn't cut and resigned in the same offseason...

Did they ever explain that move? Or was it more that LeKevin's contract expired and then we later resigned him?

montrose
06-06-2010, 05:51 PM
I think you meant to put spencer larson as 1st string FB, right?

The Broncos don't start a FB and just use it sparingly, so I listed it under RBs with Larsen and Eckel.

I think you mean Zane Beadles.

Well most of camp with Harris out they used Beadles at RT and with McDaniels comment that he'd be a T that could play G, I figured it best to list him there on the depth chart right now. Also, Olsen's been playing 1st time LG all of OTAs to my knowledge. With that, Beadles has a great shot to start inside and if Harris and Clady are healthy - I might even expect it. But I wanted to put together the depth chart as if the entire team gathered for a practice today.

I have Marcus Thomas ahead of Le Kevin Smith right now, at least he has been playing with Mcbean and Fields.

Yeah I wasn't sure who was playing on the 2nd team as I hadn't seen a report of the such. I put Smith ahead because he was ahead of him last year and started a game.

Also Marcus wasn't cut and resigned in the same offseason...

Did they ever explain that move? Or was it more that LeKevin's contract expired and then we later resigned him?

Smith was a RFA that went untendered, and was later resigned.

Tombstone RJ
06-06-2010, 10:08 PM
Because of the recent roster moves.

Offense
QB: Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow
RB: Knowshon Moreno, Correll Buckhalter, JJ Arrington, Lance Ball, Bruce Hall, Toney Baker - Spencer Larsen (FB), Kyle Eckel (FB)
X: Jabar Gaffney, Eric Decker, Alric Arnett, Dicky Lyons
Z: Brandon Lloyd, Demaryius Thomas, Kenny McKinley, Matthew Willis
Y: Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokley, Patrick Honeycutt, Landis Williams
LT: Ryan Clady, Tyler Polumbus, D'Anthony Batiste, Paul Duncan
LG: Seth Olsen, Russ Hochstein
C: JD Walton, Dustin Fry
RG: Chris Kuper, Eric Olsen, Stanley Daniels
RT: Ryan Harris, Zane Beadles, Chris Marinelli
TE: Daniel Graham, Richard Quinn, Marquez Branson, Riar Greer, Nathan Overbay

Defense
LE: Jarvis Green, Ryan McBean, Ben Garland, Jaron Baston
RE: Justin Bannan, Le Kevin Smith, Marcus Thomas, Jeff Stehle
NT: Jamal Williams, Ronald Fields, Chris Baker
WOLB: Elvis Dumervil, Jarvis Moss, Baraka Atkins, Korey Bosworth
SOLB: Robert Ayers, Darrell Reid, Bruce Davis, Jammie Kirlew, Kevin Alexander
WILB: DJ Williams, Wesley Woodyard, Braxton Kelley, Devin Bishop
SILB: Mario Haggan, Akin Ayodele, Nick Greisen
LCB: Champ Bailey, Alphonso Smith, Tony Carter, Syd'Quan Thompson
RCB: Andre Goodman, Nate Jones, Perrish Cox, Cassius Vaughn
FS: Renaldo Hill, Darcel McBath, Kyle McCarthy
SS: Brian Dawkins, David Bruton, Josh Barrett

Special Teams
K: Matt Prater
P: Britton Colquitt, AJ Trapasso
DS: Lonie Paxton

:thumbsup:

tsiguy96
06-06-2010, 10:13 PM
so who wants to be the one who pulls up the 07/08 starting defense...scary

dbfan21
06-07-2010, 08:10 AM
I tried projecting the final 53-man roster. tough stuff!! I am going to post this and am willing to get annihilated for it, but what the heck...nothing else to talk about right now....

Offense
QB: Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow
RB: Knowshon Moreno, Correll Buckhalter, JJ Arrington, Spencer Larsen (FB), Kyle Eckel (FB)
X: Jabar Gaffney, Eric Decker
Z: Brandon Lloyd, Demaryius Thomas
Y: Eddie Royal, Kenny McKinley
LT: Ryan Clady, Tyler Polumbus,
LG: Seth Olsen, Russ Hochstein
C: JD Walton
RG: Chris Kuper, Eric Olsen
RT: Ryan Harris, Zane Beadles
TE: Daniel Graham, Richard Quinn

Defense
LE: Jarvis Green, Ryan McBean
RE: Justin Bannan, Marcus Thomas
NT: Jamal Williams, Ronald Fields
WOLB: Elvis Dumervil, Baraka Atkins
SOLB: Robert Ayers, Darrell Reid
WILB: DJ Williams, Wesley Woodyard, Braxton Kelley,
SILB: Mario Haggan, Akin Ayodele, Nick Greisen
LCB: Champ Bailey, Alphonso Smith, Tony Carter
RCB: Andre Goodman, Nate Jones, Perrish Cox
FS: Renaldo Hill, Darcel McBath
SS: Brian Dawkins, David Bruton

Special Teams
K: Matt Prater
P: Britton Colquitt
DS: Lonie Paxton

PS: Matthew Willis, Toney Baker, Marquez Branson, Jammie Kirlew, Syd'Quan Thompson, Dustin Fry

Surprise cuts: Brandon Stokley, Le Kevin Smith & Josh Barrett

Flame away...:peace:

montrose
06-07-2010, 08:42 AM
so who wants to be the one who pulls up the 07/08 starting defense...scary

I believe it was John Engleberger, Marcus Thomas, Sam Adams, Elvis Dumervil, Ian Gold, Nate Webster, DJ Williams, Champ Bailey, Dre Bly, John Lynch and Hamza Abdullah.

Even worse, the 08 starters were John Engelberger, Marcus Thomas, Dwayne Robertson, Elvis Dumervil, Jamie Winborn, DJ Williams, Nate Webster, Champ Bailey, Dre Bly, Marquand Manual and Marlon McCree.

I tried projecting the final 53-man roster. tough stuff!! I am going to post this and am willing to get annihilated for it, but what the heck...nothing else to talk about right now....

Offense
QB: Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow
RB: Knowshon Moreno, Correll Buckhalter, JJ Arrington, Spencer Larsen (FB), Kyle Eckel (FB)
X: Jabar Gaffney, Eric Decker
Z: Brandon Lloyd, Demaryius Thomas
Y: Eddie Royal, Kenny McKinley
LT: Ryan Clady, Tyler Polumbus,
LG: Seth Olsen, Russ Hochstein
C: JD Walton
RG: Chris Kuper, Eric Olsen
RT: Ryan Harris, Zane Beadles
TE: Daniel Graham, Richard Quinn

Defense
LE: Jarvis Green, Ryan McBean
RE: Justin Bannan, Marcus Thomas
NT: Jamal Williams, Ronald Fields
WOLB: Elvis Dumervil, Baraka Atkins
SOLB: Robert Ayers, Darrell Reid
WILB: DJ Williams, Wesley Woodyard, Braxton Kelley,
SILB: Mario Haggan, Akin Ayodele, Nick Greisen
LCB: Champ Bailey, Alphonso Smith, Tony Carter
RCB: Andre Goodman, Nate Jones, Perrish Cox
FS: Renaldo Hill, Darcel McBath
SS: Brian Dawkins, David Bruton

Special Teams
K: Matt Prater
P: Britton Colquitt
DS: Lonie Paxton

PS: Matthew Willis, Toney Baker, Marquez Branson, Jammie Kirlew, Syd'Quan Thompson, Dustin Fry

Surprise cuts: Brandon Stokley, Le Kevin Smith & Josh Barrett

Flame away...:peace:

Not bad at all, I don't think we'll be keeping two FBs though. McD seemed to really like Barrett as a gunner and Stokley always seems to be able to stick around. We'll have to see!

gyldenlove
06-07-2010, 08:59 AM
I tried projecting the final 53-man roster. tough stuff!! I am going to post this and am willing to get annihilated for it, but what the heck...nothing else to talk about right now....

Offense
QB: Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow
RB: Knowshon Moreno, Correll Buckhalter, JJ Arrington, Spencer Larsen (FB), Kyle Eckel (FB)
X: Jabar Gaffney, Eric Decker
Z: Brandon Lloyd, Demaryius Thomas
Y: Eddie Royal, Kenny McKinley
LT: Ryan Clady, Tyler Polumbus,
LG: Seth Olsen, Russ Hochstein
C: JD Walton
RG: Chris Kuper, Eric Olsen
RT: Ryan Harris, Zane Beadles
TE: Daniel Graham, Richard Quinn

Defense
LE: Jarvis Green, Ryan McBean
RE: Justin Bannan, Marcus Thomas
NT: Jamal Williams, Ronald Fields
WOLB: Elvis Dumervil, Baraka Atkins
SOLB: Robert Ayers, Darrell Reid
WILB: DJ Williams, Wesley Woodyard, Braxton Kelley,
SILB: Mario Haggan, Akin Ayodele, Nick Greisen
LCB: Champ Bailey, Alphonso Smith, Tony Carter
RCB: Andre Goodman, Nate Jones, Perrish Cox
FS: Renaldo Hill, Darcel McBath
SS: Brian Dawkins, David Bruton

Special Teams
K: Matt Prater
P: Britton Colquitt
DS: Lonie Paxton

PS: Matthew Willis, Toney Baker, Marquez Branson, Jammie Kirlew, Syd'Quan Thompson, Dustin Fry

Surprise cuts: Brandon Stokley, Le Kevin Smith & Josh Barrett

Flame away...:peace:

I would propose:

Eckel is cut and replaced by Marques Branson (We don't need 2 FBs, but we do need 3 TEs)
Greisen and Kelley cut and replaced by Josh Barrett and Jarvis Moss (We don't need 6 ILBs, especially since neither is a ST standout, Barrett gets the call for ST and Moss gets the call for depth at OLB-DE)

missingnumber7
06-07-2010, 09:38 AM
Not bad at all, I don't think we'll be keeping two FBs though. McD seemed to really like Barrett as a gunner and Stokley always seems to be able to stick around. We'll have to see!

Doesn't Larsen keep himself around a little longer just because of his ability to play on both sides of the ball and hard core special teams attitude? Also...I said this last year when everyone thought we were getting rid of Stokley...Hard to get rid of a guy with his experience that can produce, and is willing to be a role player. No huge injury issues. Especially with 2 rookies that have had injury issues in the past.

dbfan21
06-07-2010, 09:49 AM
I would propose:

Eckel is cut and replaced by Marques Branson (We don't need 2 FBs, but we do need 3 TEs)
Greisen and Kelley cut and replaced by Josh Barrett and Jarvis Moss (We don't need 6 ILBs, especially since neither is a ST standout, Barrett gets the call for ST and Moss gets the call for depth at OLB-DE)

I could see that, too. Good call.

dbfan21
06-07-2010, 09:51 AM
I believe it was John Engleberger, Marcus Thomas, Sam Adams, Elvis Dumervil, Ian Gold, Nate Webster, DJ Williams, Champ Bailey, Dre Bly, John Lynch and Hamza Abdullah.

Even worse, the 08 starters were John Engelberger, Marcus Thomas, Dwayne Robertson, Elvis Dumervil, Jamie Winborn, DJ Williams, Nate Webster, Champ Bailey, Dre Bly, Marquand Manual and Marlon McCree.



Not bad at all, I don't think we'll be keeping two FBs though. McD seemed to really like Barrett as a gunner and Stokley always seems to be able to stick around. We'll have to see!

I could see Larsen being the only FB to stick around, but it seems like this may be Stokley's year to get cut in the final cutdown. Just a hunch...

tsiguy96
06-07-2010, 09:59 AM
its gonna be hard for stokely to stick. thomas, royal, gaffney, lloyd, decker are all gauranteed. i guess it comes down to him or mckinley, unless mck sticks as a returner and stokely as WR.

gyldenlove
06-07-2010, 10:41 AM
I could see Larsen being the only FB to stick around, but it seems like this may be Stokley's year to get cut in the final cutdown. Just a hunch...

I agree that Stokley could be out, he wasn't used much last year and with the plans to move Royal to the slot more he is going to lose playing time as Stokley is not a fit on the outside.

Right now I think there is a very real possibility that either Polumbus or Eric Olsen gets cut leaving us with 8 OL players, possibly to accomodate either a 7th WR, 4th RB or 5th ILB.

dbfan21
06-07-2010, 10:46 AM
I agree that Stokley could be out, he wasn't used much last year and with the plans to move Royal to the slot more he is going to lose playing time as Stokley is not a fit on the outside.

Right now I think there is a very real possibility that either Polumbus or Eric Olsen gets cut leaving us with 8 OL players, possibly to accomodate either a 7th WR, 4th RB or 5th ILB.

Interesting thought about Polumbus and/or E.Olsen. Your thoughts on Stokes are right in line with mine. McD even said last year in the Cincy game that Stokes "is not the fastest guy" on the field. Wouldn't surprise me to see Royal and McKinley get the reps for the slot receiver.

underrated29
06-07-2010, 11:23 AM
I agree, that eric olsen is out..

Zane beadles will not be our G. It will be Seth Olsen!


I also agree that barrett will not be cut. We really like him as a ST and he is a weird, but nice hybrid to play cb/s/OLB on the TE. We probably keep him. I would not be surprised to see stokes out. Jarvis moss- maybe-
No way we cut spencer larsen. The man is a beast and he hits like a dam dump truck, he is a solid backup ILB. He is def worth keeping as he is pretty good all around and can play several positions all around.

Otherwise good job!

Steve Sewell
06-07-2010, 01:33 PM
I have Marcus Thomas ahead of Le Kevin Smith right now, at least he has been playing with Mcbean and Fields.

Josina has Marcus Thomas at #1

phibacka31
06-07-2010, 01:57 PM
This year's training camp will be a freakin war!
I think the coaches will have a touch time getting the roster down to 53, because for once it looks like we have quite a few quality NFL players!

These are all reasons i REALLY wanna make it to training camp, though at the moment i can't afford the plane ticket.... ugh!

BroncoBuff
06-07-2010, 02:11 PM
Because of the recent roster moves.

Offense
QB: Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow
RB: Knowshon Moreno, Correll Buckhalter, JJ Arrington, Lance Ball, Bruce Hall, Toney Baker - Spencer Larsen (FB), Kyle Eckel (FB)
X: Jabar Gaffney, Eric Decker, Alric Arnett, Dicky Lyons
Z: Brandon Lloyd, Demaryius Thomas, Kenny McKinley, Matthew Willis
Y: Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokley, Patrick Honeycutt, Landis Williams
LT: Ryan Clady, Tyler Polumbus, D'Anthony Batiste, Paul Duncan
LG: Seth Olsen, Russ Hochstein
C: JD Walton, Dustin Fry
RG: Chris Kuper, Eric Olsen, Stanley Daniels
RT: Ryan Harris, Zane Beadles, Chris Marinelli
TE: Daniel Graham, Richard Quinn, Marquez Branson, Riar Greer, Nathan Overbay

Defense
LE: Jarvis Green, Ryan McBean, Ben Garland, Jaron Baston
RE: Justin Bannan, Le Kevin Smith, Marcus Thomas, Jeff Stehle
NT: Jamal Williams, Ronald Fields, Chris Baker
WOLB: Elvis Dumervil, Jarvis Moss, Baraka Atkins, Korey Bosworth
SOLB: Robert Ayers, Darrell Reid, Bruce Davis, Jammie Kirlew, Kevin Alexander
WILB: DJ Williams, Wesley Woodyard, Braxton Kelley, Devin Bishop
SILB: Mario Haggan, Akin Ayodele, Nick Greisen
LCB: Champ Bailey, Alphonso Smith, Tony Carter, Syd'Quan Thompson
RCB: Andre Goodman, Nate Jones, Perrish Cox, Cassius Vaughn
FS: Renaldo Hill, Darcel McBath, Kyle McCarthy
SS: Brian Dawkins, David Bruton, Josh Barrett


What about Eric Decker at the Y? Based on Josh's under-use of Stokley last year, I'm guessing that, depending on the health of these guys, Brandon will be a surprise cut.

These guys will make all the difference, quantum upgrade at all three spots. They're worth 2 or 3 or even more wins. If Martindale can "call the 3-4" well, we might have an elite defense this year.

The number of games missed by these guys of course makes all the difference on offense. Neither Orton nor Quinn have much a chance without them. Polumbus is not much of a stop-gap, and Hochstein and Beadles are guards only, if that even. We need to sign a decent OT PDQ. On the bright side, we'll see more Wild Horses if this position deteriorates.

Hope not ... we should do better than this. You might be underrating McKinley here.

Lots of responsibility thrown on this kid now ... unlike Haggan, who montrose you pointed out will play probably less than half the downs, Ayers will be expected to be out there fulltime. I'm trusting Mayock on this one.


The most glaring weakness I see here is inexperience on the offensive line. We need to sign a decent veteran OT soon, and not an overpriced relic like Flozell, but rather a competent 4-8 year vet who's maybe just priced himself off of a roster.

underrated29
06-07-2010, 03:12 PM
What about Eric Decker at the Y? Based on Josh's under-use of Stokley last year, I'm guessing that, depending on the health of these guys, Brandon will be a surprise cut.

These guys will make all the difference, quantum upgrade at all three spots. They're worth 2 or 3 or even more wins. If Martindale can "call the 3-4" well, we might have an elite defense this year.

The number of games missed by these guys of course makes all the difference on offense. Neither Orton nor Quinn have much a chance without them. Polumbus is not much of a stop-gap, and Hochstein and Beadles are guards only, if that even. We need to sign a decent OT PDQ. On the bright side, we'll see more Wild Horses if this position deteriorates.

Hope not ... we should do better than this. You might be underrating McKinley here.

Lots of responsibility thrown on this kid now ... unlike Haggan, who montrose you pointed out will play probably less than half the downs, Ayers will be expected to be out there fulltime. I'm trusting Mayock on this one.


The most glaring weakness I see here is inexperience on the offensive line. We need to sign a decent veteran OT soon, and not an overpriced relic like Flozell, but rather a competent 4-8 year vet who's maybe just priced himself off of a roster.



beadles is not a G. He is a T...He can play G, infact he can play anywhere on the line except C... He is quite similiar to that player that the bears took a couple years ago that played and vanderbuilt. Chris williams or something...Now beadles is not nearly as polished and his ceiling might not be as high as williams but he is a T and a solid one at that....I agree he is probably not ready to jump into a LT spot right away and a solid vet would be a wise choice. But the beadle imo could fill in at RT and do a HELL lot better than the chumps we had last year after ryan went down.

Drek
06-07-2010, 04:51 PM
What about Eric Decker at the Y? Based on Josh's under-use of Stokley last year, I'm guessing that, depending on the health of these guys, Brandon will be a surprise cut.
Decker is best suited to the Z role. I think if anyone moves to the Y with the potential departure of Stokley it would be McKinley.

The number of games missed by these guys of course makes all the difference on offense. Neither Orton nor Quinn have much a chance without them. Polumbus is not much of a stop-gap, and Hochstein and Beadles are guards only, if that even. We need to sign a decent OT PDQ. On the bright side, we'll see more Wild Horses if this position deteriorates.
The knocks on Beadles as an OT are pretty weak (arm length, when he's got average length arms for a RT). He was a good multi-year starter for a good Utah team. He is likely an upgrade over Polumbus (unless Polumbus put on about 20 pounds of muscle over the off-season). The real key is that if we're missing Clady or Harris at the same time we simply do not have a guy you want trying to handle LT. If both miss time at the beginning of the year we could be looking at Polumbus at LT and Beadles at RT. Very scary.

Hope not ... we should do better than this. You might be underrating McKinley here.
Lloyd is a good fit for the Z, he gets down field quickly and his one real proven skill is catching deep balls. He's not a bad stop gap there while Thomas gets up to speed.

But if Thomas doesn't take that job over by the end of the season we've got cause for concern (unless of course Lloyd inexplicably blows up). But again, I think McKinley should be Royal's understudy in the slot.

Lots of responsibility thrown on this kid now ... unlike Haggan, who montrose you pointed out will play probably less than half the downs, Ayers will be expected to be out there fulltime. I'm trusting Mayock on this one.
If Haggan is only playing part time with Ayodele in the middle (at the SILB position which is off the field on nickel downs no less) I think he'll have ample opportunities to relieve Ayers if needed.

We don't need Ayers to break through for the D to be good, but we definitely need him if the D is going to be great. Mayock says he's a three year guy though, so don't go hanging Mike out too early on his predictions for Ayers.


The most glaring weakness I see here is inexperience on the offensive line. We need to sign a decent veteran OT soon, and not an overpriced relic like Flozell, but rather a competent 4-8 year vet who's maybe just priced himself off of a roster.
Unfortunately I don't think that kind of guy exists. We're rolling with Beadles as our backup OT most likely. In all honesty though, I wouldn't be surprised if they see Beadles as the long term RT. Harris' medical history is nothing short of terrifying. Bad back and now a jacked up toe. Two problems that typically just don't go away for big men. I love the guy, he's a golden domer and all, but if Beadles does nothing but work at RT it was a good pick. We're likely living on borrowed time with Harris.

LRtagger
06-07-2010, 05:32 PM
I don't think there's any chance Barrett gets cut. He is too valuable on ST and we seemed to use him a lot last year in nickle sets to cover TEs.

Florida_Bronco
06-07-2010, 09:17 PM
Decker is best suited to the Z role. I think if anyone moves to the Y with the potential departure of Stokley it would be McKinley.


The knocks on Beadles as an OT are pretty weak (arm length, when he's got average length arms for a RT). He was a good multi-year starter for a good Utah team. He is likely an upgrade over Polumbus (unless Polumbus put on about 20 pounds of muscle over the off-season). The real key is that if we're missing Clady or Harris at the same time we simply do not have a guy you want trying to handle LT. If both miss time at the beginning of the year we could be looking at Polumbus at LT and Beadles at RT. Very scary.


Lloyd is a good fit for the Z, he gets down field quickly and his one real proven skill is catching deep balls. He's not a bad stop gap there while Thomas gets up to speed.

But if Thomas doesn't take that job over by the end of the season we've got cause for concern (unless of course Lloyd inexplicably blows up). But again, I think McKinley should be Royal's understudy in the slot.


If Haggan is only playing part time with Ayodele in the middle (at the SILB position which is off the field on nickel downs no less) I think he'll have ample opportunities to relieve Ayers if needed.

We don't need Ayers to break through for the D to be good, but we definitely need him if the D is going to be great. Mayock says he's a three year guy though, so don't go hanging Mike out too early on his predictions for Ayers.



Unfortunately I don't think that kind of guy exists. We're rolling with Beadles as our backup OT most likely. In all honesty though, I wouldn't be surprised if they see Beadles as the long term RT. Harris' medical history is nothing short of terrifying. Bad back and now a jacked up toe. Two problems that typically just don't go away for big men. I love the guy, he's a golden domer and all, but if Beadles does nothing but work at RT it was a good pick. We're likely living on borrowed time with Harris.

Drek, I thought the X guy was the deep threat (Randy Moss role), the Y was the intermediate (Marshall/Gaffney) role and the Z was what Welker and Royal play? I know you've referred to them by this terminology before so I was curious what brought the change on.

montrose
06-07-2010, 10:21 PM
What about Eric Decker at the Y? Based on Josh's under-use of Stokley last year, I'm guessing that, depending on the health of these guys, Brandon will be a surprise cut.

I think all of these guys could be interchangable at the different positions, once they learn them all. I slotted guys in based on the reports I read and where they would naturally project. Per Stokley, I could see him being cut - especially if the reports of McKinley looking good are true. McD does love vets though and with Thomas and Decker's injuries - it may be the safer route to keep him around.

These guys will make all the difference, quantum upgrade at all three spots. They're worth 2 or 3 or even more wins. If Martindale can "call the 3-4" well, we might have an elite defense this year.

I'm not going to go as far as to say any player or players are worth more wins, it takes all 53 guys and the entire coaching staff to come together and work as one in an effort to win games - but it certainly seems as though the depth and competition at that position has been improved mightly. I think you agree with me that Bannan is going to be a smashing pickup for the Broncos.

The number of games missed by these guys of course makes all the difference on offense. Neither Orton nor Quinn have much a chance without them. Polumbus is not much of a stop-gap, and Hochstein and Beadles are guards only, if that even. We need to sign a decent OT PDQ. On the bright side, we'll see more Wild Horses if this position deteriorates.

Yes, yes and yes. I've been crying for two years now that the team needs much better depth at the OT position and now it may bite us in the butt. I disagree that Beadles is only a guard - I believe McD said he's a T that can play G. With that, I'd love to see a solid #3 OT brought in - and that was before Clady's injury.

Hope not ... we should do better than this. You might be underrating McKinley here.

Lloyd has become a favorite of the staff from the professionalism he showed last year and coming to play well those last two games. He was rewarded with a signing bonus and has already been individually praised by McD in the offseason. His big issue has always been consistency, not talent. He's been starting all OTAs and I think the season will begin that way but the competition at that position is great and considering the rotation McD likes along with what I expect to be more 3, 4 and even 5 WR formations with Scheffler gone - all these guys will play. Per McKinley, we've been hearing good things about him through OTAs and he can also return kicks - preseason will tell a lot.

Lots of responsibility thrown on this kid now ... unlike Haggan, who montrose you pointed out will play probably less than half the downs, Ayers will be expected to be out there fulltime. I'm trusting Mayock on this one.

Yes, lots of pressure on Ayers. Haggan at the SILB spot should (hopefully) not be on the field a ton because the Broncos are stopping the run! :sunshine: Davis was mostly on the field during run situations, they were in the nickel other times. Now Haggan is better in coverage, and bigger - which is probably why the move was made - but Woodyard is probably still the nickel LB next to DJ. Ayers role in the nickel shouldn't change, he spent all last season as the DE opposite Elvis there - we just need him to produce. His big change comes on running situations where he may have to play in coverage, but also needs to show he can help stop the run. I'm optimistic he's up the task but worse case scenerio is Ayodele plays SILB with Haggan returning to his SOLB spot on running downs. I think Ayers will step up big and this won't happen, but I imagine that's a natural contingency plan.

The most glaring weakness I see here is inexperience on the offensive line. We need to sign a decent veteran OT soon, and not an overpriced relic like Flozell, but rather a competent 4-8 year vet who's maybe just priced himself off of a roster.

I think so, especially because the OL is such an important position. The most important thing, to me, is that the team comes together and moves forward as one group without distractions or poor priorities. I think the talent is there for the team to be competitive if they can come together in these areas. They've got a great coaching staff to develop them, we just need to see them play as a unit like they did at the begining of last season.

watermock
06-07-2010, 11:07 PM
All recivers should know all 4 routes.

But we have 3 rookies, and 1 third year player wide, both with injury

wow.

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Drek
06-08-2010, 05:54 AM
Drek, I thought the X guy was the deep threat (Randy Moss role), the Y was the intermediate (Marshall/Gaffney) role and the Z was what Welker and Royal play? I know you've referred to them by this terminology before so I was curious what brought the change on.

McDaniels' references leads to some confusion with the traditional terminology. It primarily stems from the fact that his slot guy is actually his #2 WR, so sometimes he calls them the Z and sometimes the Y.

From a traditional template the Y is the slot, but McDaniels more often than not with the Pats referred to Welker as the Z. That was because in 2 WR sets obviously he didn't take Welker off the field, he just moved him to the Z.

Its all a generalization and a lot of it doesn't hold true in McDaniels' offense. For example the X or split end WR is typically the team's #1 and McDaniels has referred to Randy Moss as the Pats X WR. But then he did predominantly line up on the TE side not opposite the TE side which is more standard for the split end. Is this because he primarily ran deep routes and Tom Brady's deep ball is unquestionably better to his right than throwing across his body to his left? Probably. But it throws a curveball into terminology.

This is why I personally prefer referring to them by the roles they actually play. Last year we had a more traditional offense where Marshall was the split end (X) and the featured WR, Royal was the #2 and primarily played flanker (Z), and Stokely was #3 playing the slot (Y).

But I'll be real surprised if we don't go back to the muddled terminology he used in NE now that Royal is going to the slot. No way is Royal only seeing the field on 3 WR sets, so he'll be in playing either X or Z in the 2 WR.

I'd personally really like to pick McD's brain on the subject to see if he even uses the split end/flanker terminology.

BroncoBuff
06-08-2010, 06:48 AM
Decker is best suited to the Z role. I think if anyone moves to the Y with the potential departure of Stokley it would be McKinley.
Lloyd is a good fit for the Z, he gets down field quickly and his one real proven skill is catching deep balls. He's not a bad stop gap there while Thomas gets up to speed.
I'm like Florida I think ... I keep confusing these damn letters.

I hope one of you guys can line out a detailed primer on this passing game before training camp.


But if Thomas doesn't take that job over by the end of the season we've got cause for concern (unless of course Lloyd inexplicably blows up). But again, I think McKinley should be Royal's understudy in the slot.
As a corollary to your liking offensive linemen to be multi-year starters in college, McKinley started every game and broke all of Sidney Rice's records at South Carolina. He's a producer, I'm thinking he'll be the breakout offensive player this year ... if he gets a shot somewhere other than at Eddie's spot.


Harris' medical history is nothing short of terrifying. Bad back and now a jacked up toe. Two problems that typically just don't go away for big men. I love the guy, he's a golden domer and all, but if Beadles does nothing but work at RT it was a good pick. We're likely living on borrowed time with Harris.
Oh that's just great ... a cold shot like this to start the day. Hadn't heard Harris's long-term viability questioned before. And actually he did comeback strong from the back surgery, didn't he?

I remain confident that any kid from a Big Ten powerhouse like Notre Dame can bounce back :thumbs:

Drek
06-08-2010, 08:42 AM
I'm like Florida I think ... I keep confusing these damn letters.

I hope one of you guys can line out a detailed primer on this passing game before training camp.
I find the easiest way to view it is by relation to how McDaniels ran it in New England, and is now setting up to run it here.

the #1 WR is a tall and fast deep threat who can stretch defenses and make big plays. This is what Randy Moss does for the Pats. This is where Royal played last year. Lloyd is the front runner for that job this year apparently, but Thomas seems like a perfect fit for this role and likely will give Lloyd serious competition in camp if not take the job away from him.

The #2 WR is a guy who can play both the slot and the opposite wing WR spot from the #1 in 2 WR sets. Wes Welker does this in NE. He needs to be fast, smart, run real good routes, and catch in stride. His primary goal is to get the ball in a wide variety of fashions (bubble screens, shallow slants across the middle of the field, etc.) and then put up big YAC. It looks like this is where we're moving Royal. Its also where Stokley played last year. I think this might be McKinley's best fit as well myself.

The #3 WR spot only sees the field on 3+ WR sets but lines up on a wing. He's targeted in the short to intermediate passing game, primarily as a chain mover/posession WR type. Big YAC isn't expected, just winning battles in traffic and making completions. Gaffney was at home in this role for NE before coming here, and we overhauled the entire offense last year to feature Marshall out of this same role. Of course Marshall provided YAC out of this role because that's just the kind of guy he is and its a big part of why the we could even switch the scheme up to make this the featured role and still have any real success. I think Gaffney will start in this role for us in 2010, with Decker as the long term replacement.

Of course we won't run it exactly like that here in 2010, for example I expect Lloyd to be the deep threat guy but he'll probably be only the #3 WR. So whereas in New England when they run 2 WR sets they just leave Moss at his position and move Welker out to the wing we'll instead leave Gaffney at his position and move Royal out to the wing. Fits well since Royal played out of that role last year and will know the requirements of it well.

Long term Thomas should take over that role though, bumping Gaffney/Decker to 3rd and having Royal move out of the slot on 2 WR sets still.

As a corollary to your liking offensive linemen to be multi-year starters in college, McKinley started every game and broke all of Sidney Rice's records at South Carolina. He's a producer, I'm thinking he'll be the breakout offensive player this year ... if he gets a shot somewhere other than at Eddie's spot.
I like McKinley but I just don't see the size to win jump balls deep down the field. He's more quick than fast as well so ultimately he's the kind of guy you'd love in the slot. But that will likely be Royal's job and I just don't think he's good enough to beat Royal out. Doesn't mean he's bad, Royal just has the potential to be exceptionally good at McKinley's best fit in the offense.


Oh that's just great ... a cold shot like this to start the day. Hadn't heard Harris's long-term viability questioned before. And actually he did comeback strong from the back surgery, didn't he?

I remain confident that any kid from a Big Ten powerhouse like Notre Dame can bounce back :thumbs:
Just calling it like I see it, and you know I love Harris as our starting RT. But he had back surgery in college and then had to have it worked on again his rookie year. That is one big question mark for any 300 pounder to live with. Now he's had to have surgery on a toe after a serious dislocation that caused both bone and ligament damage. For big men there are three hugely vulnerable and potentially career threatening places to have injuries. You back, your knees, and your feet. Harris has two of the three already checked off, and he's doubled up on the first one at the age of 25.

I hope like all hell it doesn't happen because I love seeing one of my favorite recent players from my favorite college program anchoring RT for my favorite NFL team, and to see him do it for the next 10 years. But McDaniels would be an outright fool not to draft some long term insurance behind him.

That doesn't mean Harris isn't going to be a stud this year, just that I think the assumption that he and Clady will be our bookends for the next decade and Beadles as an OT is useless is presumptuous. We all got a shot of that same cold water you just felt when Clady hurt himself playing pickup basketball. We could loose either one of those guys in an instant on the football field and never see them come back 100%. We need protection.

montrose
06-13-2010, 10:17 PM
My post-OTAs/pre-Camp guess:

Offense
3 - QB: Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow
4 - RB: Knowshon Moreno, Correll Buckhalter, JJ Arrington, Spencer Larsen (FB)
6 - WR: Eddie Royal, Jabar Gaffney, Brandon Lloyd, Brandon Stokley, Demaryius Thomas, Kenny McKinley
9 - OL: Ryan Clady, Zane Beadles, JD Walton, Chris Kuper, Ryan Harris, Seth Olsen, Russ Hochstein, Eric Olsen, Tyler Polumbus
3 - TE: Daniel Graham, Richard Quinn, Marquez Branson
Defense
7 - DL: Jarvis Green, Justin Bannan, Jamal Williams, Ronald Fields, Ryan McBean, Le Kevin Smith, Chris Baker
8 - LB: Elvis Dumervil, Robert Ayers, DJ Williams, Mario Haggan, Jarvis Moss, Darrell Reid, Wesley Woodyard, Akin Ayodele
5 - DB: Champ Bailey, Andre Goodman, Alphonso Smith, Nate Jones, Perrish Cox
5 - S: Renaldo Hill, Brian Dawkins, Darcel McBath, David Bruton, Josh Barrett
Special Teams
1 - K: Matt Prater
1 - P: Britton Colquitt
1 - DS: Lonie Paxton
PuP
WR Eric Decker
Practice Squad
RB Lance Ball
WR Matthew Willis
OL Dustin Fry
OL Stanley Daniels
LB Jammie Kirlew
LB Kevin Alexander
DB Tony Carter
DB Syd'Quan Thompson

strafen
06-13-2010, 10:43 PM
Because of the recent roster moves.


Are we off until July 15th? ( start of TC)
Or do we have any football activities still scheduled for this week?

montrose
06-14-2010, 08:26 AM
Are we off until July 15th? ( start of TC)
Or do we have any football activities still scheduled for this week?

I believe Josh said it was non-football workouts for two weeks, then off till camp.