Flotilla Passengers: "Go Back To Auschwitz" and "Don't Forget 9/11"

[epicSocialism4tw]

"Peace activists?"

Yeah right.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3899131,00.html

[Doggcow]

Israel has had to put up with so much **** over the years, I tend to just side with them.

[Paladin]

Just sink the fugging boats. All of them......

[epicSocialism4tw]

Liberal Journalist Helen Thomas: "Jews, go back to Germany."

http://www.breitbart.tv/helen-thomas-tells-jews-get-the-hell-out-of-palestine-and-go-back-to-germany-poland/

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I actually think they are all a bunch of assholes. If they only moved the jews to oklahoma after ww2, so much could have been avoided :) (im jewish by the way)

[Bronco Yoda]

nah, we should have set them up in Texas, NM, Arizona and San Diego.

Me thinks we wouldn't be having any boarder patrol problems right now :)

[epicSocialism4tw]

I actually think they are all a bunch of a-holes. If they only moved the jews to oklahoma after ww2, so much could have been avoided :) (im jewish by the way)

Well if they had their way you'd be starved, then burned.

[gyldenlove]

I actually think they are all a bunch of a-holes. If they only moved the jews to oklahoma after ww2, so much could have been avoided :) (im jewish by the way)

Oklahoma? Come on we are talking about a people who suffered one of histories largest travesties and you want to send them to Oklahoma? does the suffering never end. At least send them to Texas or something.

[Los Broncos]

What is they have against Jews anyways?

[epicSocialism4tw]

What is they have against Jews anyways?

Religous and cultural enmity that spans millenia.

[jhns]

What is they have against Jews anyways?

Right now it is that Jews have control of the holy city Jerusalem. That is why most muslims hate them. They have been fighting over that land for a long long time.

[Chris]

Can we have some credible news sources please?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Can we have some credible news sources please?

You didnt listen to the tape?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Oklahoma? Come on we are talking about a people who suffered one of histories largest travesties and you want to send them to Oklahoma? does the suffering never end. At least send them to Texas or something.

Well israel is a desert anyway. A nice tropical island would have done.

[Kaylore]

Can we have some credible news sources please?

Here's the video of Helen Thomas. It's definitely her.

http://www.breitbart.tv/helen-thomas-tells-jews-get-the-hell-out-of-palestine-and-go-back-to-germany-poland

At some point you need to actually look at things rather than dismissing them out of hand and saying "All (insert news source) prints are lies" and then stick your head in the sand.

[Doggcow]

As per other sources, this too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LulDJh4fWI

[gunns]

Now that's just mean, OK and Texas....have a heart people.

[OABB]

Considering all that the Jews suffered in ww2, shouldn't they be the last People to act like Nazi germany? If they could put all Muslims in gas chambers, believe me they would. As someone who was raised Jewish, I would like to be the first to say isreal has lost it's rights to b**** about Germany.

The holocaust is over and I'm sick of hearing about it. My family is full of Zionist and I try to talk to them openly and I swear they are worse than Nazis sometimes.They just call everyone a terrorist and than justify starvingbthem or killing them.

[Pseudofool]

Yeah, liberals are known for their hatred of Jews.

[Sodak]

Yeah, liberals are known for their hatred of Jews.

So is Eric Cartman.

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

WHY THE **** IS THIS IN THE MAIN FORUM?

Christ, llama, put it in the ****ing war and politics forum. This **** is ridiculous.

You're such a ****ing attention whore.

[rugbythug]

WHY THE **** IS THIS IN THE MAIN FORUM?

Christ, llama, put it in the ****ing war and politics forum. This **** is ridiculous.

You're such a ****ing attention whore.

[Says the guy cursing and shouting]

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

[Says the guy cursing and shouting]

As soon as there's a cursing and shouting forum, I'll be sure to hit it up.

This doesn't belong here. It's getting absurd with ****ing Mc****head trying to start flame wars every day.

[loborugger]

Considering all that the Jews suffered in ww2, shouldn't they be the last People to act like Nazi germany? If they could put all Muslims in gas chambers, believe me they would. As someone who was raised Jewish, I would like to be the first to say isreal has lost it's rights to b**** about Germany.

The holocaust is over and I'm sick of hearing about it. My family is full of Zionist and I try to talk to them openly and I swear they are worse than Nazis sometimes.They just call everyone a terrorist and than justify starvingbthem or killing them.

This really the on point...

The Jews hate the Arabs

The Arabs hate the Jews

And of course, its not all of them that hate each other, but its enough.

So, what is our solution here in America? Obvious. We must take sides. We must interject ourselves into their squabble. We must define who is good and who is bad.

South Vietnam - good North Vietnam - bad
Kuwait - good Iraq - bad
Colombian govt - good Colombian rebels - bad
Israel - good Arabs - bad

And what the hell does this do? Nothing, but piss everyone off.

We arm the Israelis. We arm the Arabs. Then, we pay the Israelis not to fight the Arabs and we pay the Arabs not to fight the Jews. We tell the Israelis not to build homes on territory they control. We tell the Arabs not to fight back against the Israelis. Each administration pushes the two sides to sign meaningless, pointless 'peace treaties' that solve nothing and pat ourselves on the back telling ourselves what a damn fine job we have done.

How about we let the children squabble amongst each other and not arm them to the Nth degree? And when they do fight, lets not send emergency arms to Israel - or call off the Israelis when they are about to do in the PLO?

Dimes to donuts - if they didnt have us there to fall back on, the two sides would figure out a way to be more civil with each other. We would pocket a far amount of our own money, and people who live in caves on the other side of the planet would have a less rhetoric to toss our direction.

Or, we can continue to be the world's policeman, interfering in everyone else's internal affairs, and go broke while pissing the world off.

[Killericon]

Considering all that the Jews suffered in ww2, shouldn't they be the last People to act like Nazi germany? If they could put all Muslims in gas chambers, believe me they would. As someone who was raised Jewish, I would like to be the first to say isreal has lost it's rights to b**** about Germany.

The holocaust is over and I'm sick of hearing about it. My family is full of Zionist and I try to talk to them openly and I swear they are worse than Nazis sometimes.They just call everyone a terrorist and than justify starvingbthem or killing them.

There's extremists in every group, and they aren't representative of the whole group. Saying that every Jew would exterminate every Muslim on the planet if they could is really, REALLY ridiculous.

[Dutch]

This really the on point...

The Jews hate the Arabs

The Arabs hate the Jews

And of course, its not all of them that hate each other, but its enough.

So, what is our solution here in America? Obvious. We must take sides. We must interject ourselves into their squabble. We must define who is good and who is bad.

South Vietnam - good North Vietnam - bad
Kuwait - good Iraq - bad
Colombian govt - good Colombian rebels - bad
Israel - good Arabs - bad

And what the hell does this do? Nothing, but piss everyone off.

We arm the Israelis. We arm the Arabs. Then, we pay the Israelis not to fight the Arabs and we pay the Arabs not to fight the Jews. We tell the Israelis not to build homes on territory they control. We tell the Arabs not to fight back against the Israelis. Each administration pushes the two sides to sign meaningless, pointless 'peace treaties' that solve nothing and pat ourselves on the back telling ourselves what a damn fine job we have done.

How about we let the children squabble amongst each other and not arm them to the Nth degree? And when they do fight, lets not send emergency arms to Israel - or call off the Israelis when they are about to do in the PLO?

Dimes to donuts - if they didnt have us there to fall back on, the two sides would figure out a way to be more civil with each other. We would pocket a far amount of our own money, and people who live in caves on the other side of the planet would have a less rhetoric to toss our direction.

Or, we can continue to be the world's policeman, interfering in everyone else's internal affairs, and go broke while pissing the world off.

Is this the garbage that a degree gets you, or are you just an attention whore. Have you actually seen more than 30 laps around the sun and yet remain this clueless? Obviously you've never been there or read much history. Rock.

[extralife]

When people are mean to you after you oppress them for decades, you have carte blanche to shoot them in the face with your guns. Solid logic.

[broncosteven]

Where is ** Joshua ** when you need him?

[sirhcyennek81]

When people are mean to you after you oppress them for decades, you have carte blanche to shoot them in the face with your guns. Solid logic.


Yeah...when your children get blown up at shopping malls I am sure being mean is the last thing you worry about.


:Broncos:

[gyldenlove]

Well israel is a desert anyway. A nice tropical island would have done.

The Jordan valley and surrounding territories are a very nice place, they have good natural irrigation.

[gyldenlove]

Yeah...when your children get blown up at shopping malls I am sure being mean is the last thing you worry about.


:Broncos:

Israeli forces have killed several times more Palestinian civilians including children than the other way around, just FYI.

[sirhcyennek81]

Israeli forces have killed several times more Palestinian civilians including children than the other way around, just FYI.


Im sure. But I guess that makes it ok and the Israeli's should just let it go, right?


:Broncos:

[Durango]

Right now it is that Jews have control of the holy city Jerusalem. That is why most muslims hate them. They have been fighting over that land for a long long time.

That's pretty shallow. This goes back more than a thousand Jews and was heightened by the creation of the Jewish state smack dab in the middle of the Moslem world.

It doesn't help that Israel kicks Arab ass every time they take up arms either.

[sirhcyennek81]

That's pretty shallow. This goes back more than a thousand Jews and was heightened by the creation of the Jewish state smack dab in the middle of the Moslem world.

It doesn't help that Israel kicks Arab ass every time they take up arms either.


I have a feeling even if Jerusalem was split 50-50 or internationalized Arabs would still have an issue with a Jewish state. You know...because they exist and stuff.

:Broncos:

[RonDaChamp24]

Oklahoma? Come on we are talking about a people who suffered one of histories largest travesties and you want to send them to Oklahoma? does the suffering never end. At least send them to Texas or something.

Oklahoma isn't that bad... It's cheap to live here, there's just not a ton to do. Better than some states though. I
live here but I'm not from here. Lived in PA (was born in Scranton), Florida, Colorado and OK. Colorado was the best, Ok isn't bad though.

[SoCalBronco]

But...but...but Gaff said the only things on the flotilla were smiles, hugs and large packets of strawberry twizzlers.

[fdf]

This really the on point...

The Jews hate the Arabs

The Arabs hate the Jews

And of course, its not all of them that hate each other, but its enough.

So, what is our solution here in America? Obvious. We must take sides. We must interject ourselves into their squabble. We must define who is good and who is bad.

South Vietnam - good North Vietnam - bad
Kuwait - good Iraq - bad
Colombian govt - good Colombian rebels - bad
Israel - good Arabs - bad

And what the hell does this do? Nothing, but piss everyone off.

We arm the Israelis. We arm the Arabs. Then, we pay the Israelis not to fight the Arabs and we pay the Arabs not to fight the Jews. We tell the Israelis not to build homes on territory they control. We tell the Arabs not to fight back against the Israelis. Each administration pushes the two sides to sign meaningless, pointless 'peace treaties' that solve nothing and pat ourselves on the back telling ourselves what a damn fine job we have done.

How about we let the children squabble amongst each other and not arm them to the Nth degree? And when they do fight, lets not send emergency arms to Israel - or call off the Israelis when they are about to do in the PLO?

Dimes to donuts - if they didnt have us there to fall back on, the two sides would figure out a way to be more civil with each other. We would pocket a far amount of our own money, and people who live in caves on the other side of the planet would have a less rhetoric to toss our direction.

Or, we can continue to be the world's policeman, interfering in everyone else's internal affairs, and go broke while pissing the world off.

It's not quite that simple. After WWII, the United Nations, Europe, the US and most of the rest of the world created Israel. It was mostly a response to the Holocaust. It was also a convenient way for Europe to get rid of most of the Jews that survived the Holocaust and the slaughter of Jews in Poland, Russia etc. Israel was orchestrated and signed off on by the ruling elite of the world.

Now Israel has become inconvenient to that same ruling elite. Oil happened and there are a bunch of insane people in the middle east who want to repeat the holocaust. They have the oil.

So what's the ruling elite to do with the 6 million (convenient number) of Jews who live there? Let them be slaughtered? That looks to me like the agenda. Folks are slowly convincing themselves that Israel should be gelded in every attempt to defend itself, which will result in another Holocaust. And while this will create crocodile tears, the ruling elite is convincing itself that Israel deserves it because it is so mean. The Euro elite is leading the way, although the American ruling class isn't far behind.

I don't see Europe and Russia offering to take back the six million Jews in Israel so that the Palestinians can march in and trash Israel the way they have trashed Gaza. I don't see Obama offering to move them to, say, Detroit. And, if you were Jewish, would you want to return to the countries who slaughtered your grandparents and great grandparents? Or Detroit? Or just take your chances that you can prevent full scale arming of your current neighbors, who want to kill all of you and outnumber you 50-1? It's a crappy choice for the Jews that, if current European and American support continues to erode, will likely to end with nukes and a worldwide depression (oil again) and possibly, another world war.

So it's a little more complicated that "why should we take sides" and "why can't we all just get along" and "what if they gave a war and nobody came" type sentiments. Our rulers took sides fifty years ago when they created Israel and don't want to live with the consequences or moral responsibility that entails. Oil again.

I'm not Jewish. Just a guy who is amazed that killing them is the one thing that, given enough time, will always eventually be OK. Somehow, they always become inconvenient to our rulers. But I have known folks with the concentration camp numbers. Also, an older friend of mine was in OSS after WWII and was in an un-tidied-up concentration camp right after the war. He told me a lot about it shortly before he died.

After a brief, historic respite, slaughtering Jews appears to be on the agenda again with no serious opposition from the folks who created Israel.

[extralife]

Yeah...when your children get blown up at shopping malls I am sure being mean is the last thing you worry about.


:Broncos:

Way to change the argument. Did anyone on that boat blow up children?

[fdf]

Way to change the argument. Did anyone on that boat blow up children?

I don't think he was changing the argument at all. The goal of the folks on the boat was to break the Israeli inspection of cargos coming into Gaza. If the inspection is broken, arms shipments and, yes, terrorist-type guys will be able to come into Gaza en masse and yes, Israeli children will be killed as a direct result of the actions of the folks on the boats. Gaza would in effect become another Iranian forward base against Israel. Anyone who thinks breaking the blockade would not result in arms and terrorists moving into Gaza in a big way and being used against Israel is willfully naive. The folks on the boats knew exactly what they were doing, even the ones who were not using crowbars and knives on the Israelis who boarded the boats.

I live in Littleton. On the geographic scale of Israel, this is a little like having folks in South Denver declare that they want to kill me, my family and everyone like me in Littleton and having them free to ship any weapons into Denver that they like along with people who know how to use them. In that situation, I would hope the leaders in Littleton would be trying to find a way to blockade South Denver. I would be very pissed at "peace" activists who try to break the blockade so that weapons and terrorists may come in for use against my son.

[Steve Sewell]

Jewish people have been persecuted for centuries, from almost every possible direction (i.e. by Catholics, various governments, Muslims, you name it).

Their ancestral homeland is surrounded by Muslim countries and is under constant attack by terrorists.

As recently as 70 years ago, the Nazis attempted to wipe them off the face of the earth, to the tune of 6 million people systematically murdered.

Yet, they have persevered, quite admirably.

Yeah, I can't see why they would be fairly aggressive in defense of their small tract of land known as Israel. What nerve these people have!

[epicSocialism4tw]

It's not quite that simple. After WWII, the United Nations, Europe, the US and most of the rest of the world created Israel. It was mostly a response to the Holocaust. It was also a convenient way for Europe to get rid of most of the Jews that survived the Holocaust and the slaughter of Jews in Poland, Russia etc. Israel was orchestrated and signed off on by the ruling elite of the world.

Now Israel has become inconvenient to that same ruling elite. Oil happened and there are a bunch of insane people in the middle east who want to repeat the holocaust. They have the oil.

So what's the ruling elite to do with the 6 million (convenient number) of Jews who live there? Let them be slaughtered? That looks to me like the agenda. Folks are slowly convincing themselves that Israel should be gelded in every attempt to defend itself, which will result in another Holocaust. And while this will create crocodile tears, the ruling elite is convincing itself that Israel deserves it because it is so mean. The Euro elite is leading the way, although the American ruling class isn't far behind.

I don't see Europe and Russia offering to take back the six million Jews in Israel so that the Palestinians can march in and trash Israel the way they have trashed Gaza. I don't see Obama offering to move them to, say, Detroit. And, if you were Jewish, would you want to return to the countries who slaughtered your grandparents and great grandparents? Or Detroit? Or just take your chances that you can prevent full scale arming of your current neighbors, who want to kill all of you and outnumber you 50-1? It's a crappy choice for the Jews that, if current European and American support continues to erode, will likely to end with nukes and a worldwide depression (oil again) and possibly, another world war.

So it's a little more complicated that "why should we take sides" and "why can't we all just get along" and "what if they gave a war and nobody came" type sentiments. Our rulers took sides fifty years ago when they created Israel and don't want to live with the consequences or moral responsibility that entails. Oil again.

I'm not Jewish. Just a guy who is amazed that killing them is the one thing that, given enough time, will always eventually be OK. Somehow, they always become inconvenient to our rulers. But I have known folks with the concentration camp numbers. Also, an older friend of mine was in OSS after WWII and was in an un-tidied-up concentration camp right after the war. He told me a lot about it shortly before he died.

After a brief, historic respite, slaughtering Jews appears to be on the agenda again with no serious opposition from the folks who created Israel.


The modern American paradigm has shifted. We are now trying to handle socialism as though it is some misunderstood benevolent force that we may not want, but the government-media complex is certain that is what is best for us. Despite our efforts to make it known that it is not wanted, they push it on us anyway and tell us to shut up and take it.

Now, Israel is an inconvenience to liberals. They're tired of putting up with them. That conflict is nothing more than a movie plot to them. They're tired of the same old ending. Why not have an alternate ending? I mean, there arent any real classic victim groups at home to focus on and the Palestinians are kind of cute and fuzzy and that Ahmadinejab guy seems kind of cool and sophisticated...he's a good character, right? Why not pull for the other team? They hate religious groups anyway...well...maybe not religious groups persay, but more like Christians and their friends the Jews.

So now were a nation that has a number of people in our country who openly desire to transform our constitutional republic into a socialist state, and we have people who want to run all of the Jews out of Israel and into certain extinction.

Oh, by the way...has anyone heard that Neo-Nazism is on the rise in Europe?

Paradigm shift.

[Killericon]

The modern American paradigm has shifted. We are now trying to handle socialism as though it is some misunderstood benevolent force that we may not want, but the government-media complex is certain that is what is best for us. Despite our efforts to make it known that it is not wanted, they push it on us anyway and tell us to shut up and take it.

Now, Israel is an inconvenience to liberals. They're tired of putting up with them. That conflict is nothing more than a movie plot to them. They're tired of the same old ending. Why not have an alternate ending? I mean, there arent any real classic victim groups at home to focus on and the Palestinians are kind of cute and fuzzy and that Ahmadinejab guy seems kind of cool and sophisticated...he's a good character, right? Why not pull for the other team? They hate religious groups anyway...well...maybe not religious groups persay, but more like Christians and their friends the Jews.

So now were a nation that has a number of people in our country who openly desire to transform our constitutional republic into a socialist state, and we have people who want to run all of the Jews out of Israel and into certain extinction.

Oh, by the way...has anyone heard that Neo-Nazism is on the rise in Europe?

Paradigm shift.

I don't imagine they make brushes any broader than this.

[Bronco Yoda]

Now that's just mean, OK and Texas....have a heart people.

Funny you should say this. It so happens that the wife was on the phone with one of her good friends all evening and shared some of the convo. Come to find out our friends synagogue has been bad mouthing Pres. Obama and how the country is going to fail and break apart...yada...yada...yada... Not sure why but I could care less... I didn't know the Jewish community was down on Obama right now... but I don't really care about that anyway..... anyway....

But the interesting thing that came up was that many of her fellow Jewish families there had second homes in Texas as their safety net. It was a common thing at this Colorado synagogue.

Apparently it is viewed as the best place to be in the U.S. if the U.S. would (and as they predict will) fall apart since it has all the resources to be fully independent and self sustaining. Of course everyone has wells and plenty of room for gardening...etc.

Just a weird peice info I thought I'd share. Not that it means anything really.

[ton80]

For those on this forum that are learning about the relationship between the jews and the palestinians, it can be summed up very succinctly by what Dick Morris said. According to Morris (and I agree), if the Palestinians put down their arms, the conflict goes away, if the Jews put down their arms, Israel goes away.

And anyone that disagrees with this can go and eff themselves.

[extralife]

if the Palestinians put down their arms, they get bulldozed off the planet and/or quietly murdered

I think this is what you meant.

Palestinians are Israeli citizens, you know. You might want to educate yourself on the history of Israel, and of the Zionist movement before WWII

[extralife]

Regardless, this isn't even about the wider conflict. This is about Israeli soldier massacreing Turkish civilians. It doesn't matter what the civilians did, short of pulling guns. What do you think would happen if there was a boat of Arabs outside the US and the marines stormed it and started shooting people? Would that be acceptable, under any circumstances? If your answer is "yes" your notion of American sovereignty is a sham. Everyone in the world is condemning this outside of evangelical nutjobs that need Jerusalem to be under Jewish control for the apocalypse to hurry up and deliver them already.

[Bronco Yoda]

If one of my sons was ordered to go down a rope to inspect a shipment carrying a paint gun. And then he met with an agry mob with knives and pipe wrenches beating and stabbing him. Yep, I'd expect him to defend himself with all means necessary.

After seeing those video's, I still can't believe only 9 or 10 were killed in all this.

[loborugger]

It's not quite that simple. After WWII, the United Nations, Europe, the US and most of the rest of the world created Israel. It was mostly a response to the Holocaust. It was also a convenient way for Europe to get rid of most of the Jews that survived the Holocaust and the slaughter of Jews in Poland, Russia etc. Israel was orchestrated and signed off on by the ruling elite of the world.

Now Israel has become inconvenient to that same ruling elite. Oil happened and there are a bunch of insane people in the middle east who want to repeat the holocaust. They have the oil.

So what's the ruling elite to do with the 6 million (convenient number) of Jews who live there? Let them be slaughtered? That looks to me like the agenda. Folks are slowly convincing themselves that Israel should be gelded in every attempt to defend itself, which will result in another Holocaust. And while this will create crocodile tears, the ruling elite is convincing itself that Israel deserves it because it is so mean. The Euro elite is leading the way, although the American ruling class isn't far behind.

I don't see Europe and Russia offering to take back the six million Jews in Israel so that the Palestinians can march in and trash Israel the way they have trashed Gaza. I don't see Obama offering to move them to, say, Detroit. And, if you were Jewish, would you want to return to the countries who slaughtered your grandparents and great grandparents? Or Detroit? Or just take your chances that you can prevent full scale arming of your current neighbors, who want to kill all of you and outnumber you 50-1? It's a crappy choice for the Jews that, if current European and American support continues to erode, will likely to end with nukes and a worldwide depression (oil again) and possibly, another world war.

So it's a little more complicated that "why should we take sides" and "why can't we all just get along" and "what if they gave a war and nobody came" type sentiments. Our rulers took sides fifty years ago when they created Israel and don't want to live with the consequences or moral responsibility that entails. Oil again.

I'm not Jewish. Just a guy who is amazed that killing them is the one thing that, given enough time, will always eventually be OK. Somehow, they always become inconvenient to our rulers. But I have known folks with the concentration camp numbers. Also, an older friend of mine was in OSS after WWII and was in an un-tidied-up concentration camp right after the war. He told me a lot about it shortly before he died.

After a brief, historic respite, slaughtering Jews appears to be on the agenda again with no serious opposition from the folks who created Israel.

I said nothing about moving anyone anywhere. Relocation isnt the answer. We preach peace and yet are the largest arms dealer on the planet. Maybe we stop arming people and stop telling them how to live their lives, and things will turn out a little better.

Israel took pretty good care of itself in 1948 right off the bat when they were attacked almost simultaneously as soon as the last Brit soldier departed. Things have only gotten worse as the Arabs and Israelis have ramped up their militaries. And that was largely a product of us either directly or indirectly arming them. Now, Israel and Egypt are the two largest recipients of US foreign aid - and it amounts to a pay off not to get after each other.

No doubt, there are those who hate Jews. Some exist here in the US and are semi-organized. Thank God it isnt the policy of the US govt to arm those hate groups here in the US and then pay them not to attack Jewish folks here.

[Cito Pelon]

Israel has had to put up with so much **** over the years, I tend to just side with them.

Agreed.

[Natedogg]

.

Fixed it for ya.

[sirhcyennek81]

Way to change the argument. Did anyone on that boat blow up children?


Was anyone on that boat actually peaceful? Or is their idea of peace carrying knives and pipes?


:Broncos:

[Cito Pelon]

I don't think he was changing the argument at all. The goal of the folks on the boat was to break the Israeli inspection of cargos coming into Gaza. If the inspection is broken, arms shipments and, yes, terrorist-type guys will be able to come into Gaza en masse and yes, Israeli children will be killed as a direct result of the actions of the folks on the boats. Gaza would in effect become another Iranian forward base against Israel. Anyone who thinks breaking the blockade would not result in arms and terrorists moving into Gaza in a big way and being used against Israel is willfully naive. The folks on the boats knew exactly what they were doing, even the ones who were not using crowbars and knives on the Israelis who boarded the boats.

I live in Littleton. On the geographic scale of Israel, this is a little like having folks in South Denver declare that they want to kill me, my family and everyone like me in Littleton and having them free to ship any weapons into Denver that they like along with people who know how to use them. In that situation, I would hope the leaders in Littleton would be trying to find a way to blockade South Denver. I would be very pissed at "peace" activists who try to break the blockade so that weapons and terrorists may come in for use against my son.

True.

[Garcia Bronco]

nah, we should have set them up in Texas, NM, Arizona and San Diego.

Me thinks we wouldn't be having any boarder patrol problems right now :)

At a good price, too.

[TheReverend]

I actually think they are all a bunch of a-holes. If they only moved the jews to oklahoma after ww2, so much could have been avoided :) (im jewish by the way)

My place is available for a good chunk of them:

http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2008/03/girls-of-israeli-army.html

[Rigs11]

American, 19, Among Gaza Flotilla Dead
Furkan Dogan Was Shot Five Times, Including Four Times in Head

A U.S. citizen who lived in Turkey is among the nine people killed when Israeli commandos stormed a Turkish aid ship heading for the Gaza Strip, officials said today. The victim was identified as Furkan Dogan, 19, a Turkish-American. A forensic report said he was shot at close range, with four bullets in his head and one in his chest, according to the Anatolian news agency

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Media/american-killed-gaza-aid-flotilla/story?id=10814848

[TonyR]

The victim was identified as Furkan Dogan, 19, a Turkish-American. A forensic report said he was shot at close range, with four bullets in his head and one in his chest, according to the Anatolian news agency


Can you imagine the outrage if an American was executed like this by Muslims? Seriously, think about it.

[TonyR]

Now, Israel is an inconvenience to liberals. They're tired of putting up with them. That conflict is nothing more than a movie plot to them. They're tired of the same old ending. Why not have an alternate ending? I mean, there arent any real classic victim groups at home to focus on and the Palestinians are kind of cute and fuzzy and that Ahmadinejab guy seems kind of cool and sophisticated...he's a good character, right? Why not pull for the other team? They hate religious groups anyway...well...maybe not religious groups persay, but more like Christians and their friends the Jews.

Yes, clearly the "liberals" are taking up sides against Israel...


With another aid ship steaming towards Gaza, Harry Reid, the second most powerful member of the Democratic Party in the country, issues an oddly-timed statement strongly defending Israel's flotilla raid:

"Israel is one of our strongest and most important allies, and the United States stands firmly with Israel at this critical time.

"I deeply regret the loss of life in the flotilla incident, including the death of an American citizen.

"Israel has an obligation to protect its citizens and therefore has a clear right under international law to prevent weapons from getting in the hands of terrorists determined to target them. Israel indicated it was willing to put in place a process to ensure that legitimate humanitarian relief reached Gaza. Unfortunately this offer was rejected.

"Israel has pledged to carry out a transparent and thorough investigation of this incident, and I look forward to its findings."

Notice that there's only "regret," no hint of condemnation, over the American citizen's death. Notice that the statement comes close to blaming the flotilla activists for provoking the incident by rejecting the offer by Israel to transport the aid over land. And notice the blanket endorsement of Israel overseeing the probe of the incident, with no call for any international involvement.

Behold the mainstream of your Democratic Party. There's no balance here whatsoever.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/06/harry_reid_i_look_forward_to_i.html

Skillet, you really, really need to diversify your sources of information. You are SO wrongheaded.

[epicSocialism4tw]

American, 19, Among Gaza Flotilla Dead
Furkan Dogan Was Shot Five Times, Including Four Times in Head

A U.S. citizen who lived in Turkey is among the nine people killed when Israeli commandos stormed a Turkish aid ship heading for the Gaza Strip, officials said today. The victim was identified as Furkan Dogan, 19, a Turkish-American. A forensic report said he was shot at close range, with four bullets in his head and one in his chest, according to the Anatolian news agency

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Media/american-killed-gaza-aid-flotilla/story?id=10814848

Americans have been fooled by that philosophy of hate before.

This kid is no different and faced his unfortunate death because he aligned himself with terrorists committing an act of war.

[extralife]

lol

[gyldenlove]

My place is available for a good chunk of them:

http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2008/03/girls-of-israeli-army.html

Damn, the Israeli army's got talent.

[Meck77]

It's not quite that simple. After WWII, the United Nations, Europe, the US and most of the rest of the world created Israel. It was mostly a response to the Holocaust. It was also a convenient way for Europe to get rid of most of the Jews that survived the Holocaust and the slaughter of Jews in Poland, Russia etc. Israel was orchestrated and signed off on by the ruling elite of the world.

I'd like to add that over 10,000,000 Ukrainians died in the Soviet Holocaust. Most people don't even know that it happened. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

My father having been born in the Ukraine in 1926 survived it. :thumbsup: He's now 85 and still kicking strong!

[loborugger]

I'd like to add that over 10,000,000 Ukrainians died in the Soviet Holocaust. Most people don't even know that it happened. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

My father having been born in the Ukraine in 1926 survived it. :thumbsup: He's now 85 and still kicking strong!

Stalin once bragged that he killed more Russians than Hitler ever did.

[Tombstone RJ]

The state of Israel existed long before the islamic factions lived on Israeli land. It belongs to the Jews, period. When the state of Israel was RE-ESTABLISHED in 1947 it was due to the Jew's backs being against the wall. 6 million Jews slaughtered while the rest of the world looked away. They deserve their own land and it is their land. They have tried over and over to negotiate in good faith with the Palistinians but the Palistinians never negotiate in good faith. So be it. Long live Israel!

[Tombstone RJ]

It's not quite that simple. After WWII, the United Nations, Europe, the US and most of the rest of the world RE-ESTABLISHED THE STATE OF Israel. It was mostly a response to the Holocaust. It was also a convenient way for Europe to get rid of most of the Jews that survived the Holocaust and the slaughter of Jews in Poland, Russia etc. Israel was orchestrated and signed off on by the ruling elite of the world.

Now Israel has become inconvenient to that same ruling elite. Oil happened and there are a bunch of insane people in the middle east who want to repeat the holocaust. They have the oil.

So what's the ruling elite to do with the 6 million (convenient number) of Jews who live there? Let them be slaughtered? That looks to me like the agenda. Folks are slowly convincing themselves that Israel should be gelded in every attempt to defend itself, which will result in another Holocaust. And while this will create crocodile tears, the ruling elite is convincing itself that Israel deserves it because it is so mean. The Euro elite is leading the way, although the American ruling class isn't far behind.

I don't see Europe and Russia offering to take back the six million Jews in Israel so that the Palestinians can march in and trash Israel the way they have trashed Gaza. I don't see Obama offering to move them to, say, Detroit. And, if you were Jewish, would you want to return to the countries who slaughtered your grandparents and great grandparents? Or Detroit? Or just take your chances that you can prevent full scale arming of your current neighbors, who want to kill all of you and outnumber you 50-1? It's a crappy choice for the Jews that, if current European and American support continues to erode, will likely to end with nukes and a worldwide depression (oil again) and possibly, another world war.

So it's a little more complicated that "why should we take sides" and "why can't we all just get along" and "what if they gave a war and nobody came" type sentiments. Our rulers took sides fifty years ago when they created Israel and don't want to live with the consequences or moral responsibility that entails. Oil again.

I'm not Jewish. Just a guy who is amazed that killing them is the one thing that, given enough time, will always eventually be OK. Somehow, they always become inconvenient to our rulers. But I have known folks with the concentration camp numbers. Also, an older friend of mine was in OSS after WWII and was in an un-tidied-up concentration camp right after the war. He told me a lot about it shortly before he died.

After a brief, historic respite, slaughtering Jews appears to be on the agenda again with no serious opposition from the folks who created Israel.

I did some editing for you. God created Israel and if Christians like me have anything to do with the future of Israel it is to protect it at all costs.

Europe is filled with spinelss, weak leaders (and Judeo-Christian anchors are being pulled up and dragged away). Why you think that is the case in America, I have no idea. Fact is, Christians like myself probably support the state of Israel more than many Jews in this country, and it directly correlates to Biblical teaching. The Jews are the chosen people of God, and history has proven that over and over and over again. As long as the state of Israel remains true to God, then it will survive (with the support of many, many Christians).

[mhgaffney]

That's pretty shallow. This goes back more than a thousand Jews and was heightened by the creation of the Jewish state smack dab in the middle of the Moslem world.

It doesn't help that Israel kicks Arab ass every time they take up arms either.

No Durango.

the conflict STARTED in the early 20th century with the increasing immigration of Zionist Jews to Palestine.

For 1200 years Jews had been welcome in the Muslim world. Islam recognizes the Hebrew prophets.

But Zionism views Palestinians the way our forefathers viewed Native Americans. The only good one is a dead one.

[mhgaffney]

The state of Israel existed long before the islamic factions lived on Israeli land. It belongs to the Jews, period. When the state of Israel was RE-ESTABLISHED in 1947 it was due to the Jew's backs being against the wall. 6 million Jews slaughtered while the rest of the world looked away. They deserve their own land and it is their land. They have tried over and over to negotiate in good faith with the Palistinians but the Palistinians never negotiate in good faith. So be it. Long live Israel!

The problem with your thesis is that most of the Jews living in Palestine around 600+ AD converted to Islam.

They are known today as Palestinians.

The Palestinians -- as a result -- are genetically closer to the original Jews of the land -- than the Zionists of our time, most of whom are the progeny of converts.

The devil is in the details. Dang me.

[Tombstone RJ]

The problem with your thesis is that most of the Jews living in Palestine around 600+ AD converted to Islam.

They are known today as Palestinians.

The Palestinians -- as a result -- are genetically closer to the original Jews of the land -- than the Zionists of our time, most of whom are the progeny of converts.

The devil is in the details. Dang me.

You mean forced conversions? I'm not sure what you are talking about, do you have a link?

[Durango]

No Durango.

the conflict STARTED in the early 20th century with the increasing immigration of Zionist Jews to Palestine.

For 1200 years Jews had been welcome in the Muslim world. Islam recognizes the Hebrew prophets.

But Zionism views Palestinians the way our forefathers viewed Native Americans. The only good one is a dead one.


Yes, mhgaffney.

Jews and Muslims have been in direct conflict, figuratively and literally since the Jewish expulsions from Medina dating back to the dark ages. Generally speaking, Islam believes Christians and Jews corrupted the message of Abraham, thus invalidating their claim to a 'true faith'.

And your characterization of Zionism vs. Palestinians, beyond being simplistic and one-sided, is wrong. Thousands of Palestinians work in Israel despite the threat that any day any one of them will cart a bomb on a civilian bus to murder innocent people.

Welcome in the Muslim world my ass. No one is welcome in the Muslim world except Muslims. Probably the most prejudicial, one-sided faith on the planet, and if you don't happen to agree with them, they'll be happy to kill you for feeling that way.

[extralife]

I did some editing for you. God created Israel and if Christians like me have anything to do with the future of Israel it is to protect it at all costs.

Europe is filled with spinelss, weak leaders (and Judeo-Christian anchors are being pulled up and dragged away). Why you think that is the case in America, I have no idea. Fact is, Christians like myself probably support the state of Israel more than many Jews in this country, and it directly correlates to Biblical teaching. The Jews are the chosen people of God, and history has proven that over and over and over again. As long as the state of Israel remains true to God, then it will survive (with the support of many, many Christians).

YOU

ARE

INSANE

guys Islam is intolerant but I need to eradicate Arabs so the apocalypse can save me lolololol

seriously kill yourself please

[extralife]

Guys I have a radical new idea: lets set up a base in Constantinople and wage continuous Holy war against the Arabs so Jesus can kill everyone and we'll be saved.

[extralife]

It is God's Will for the Israelis to shoot children in the face, prevent food from entering Palestinian territory, shoot out water towers, and bulldoze houses. Praise be to Israel for staying true to God!

[epicSocialism4tw]

Guys I have a radical new idea: lets set up a base in Constantinople and wage continuous Holy war against the Arabs so Jesus can kill everyone and we'll be saved.

Do you smell that?

That's what your colon smells like.

Pull really hard and you might be able to get your head out.

[extralife]

If God wills it!

[epicSocialism4tw]

If God wills it!

Yes...it is definitely good if you pull your head out. No doubt.

[enjolras]

If you REALLY believe that starving a bunch of Palenstinians to death is somehow the will of god....

If you REALLY think that's what 'jesus would do'...

Well then you're either colossally stupid, or incredibly dangerous.

[DenverBrit]

I did some editing for you. God created Israel and if Christians like me have anything to do with the future of Israel it is to protect it at all costs.

Europe is filled with spinelss, weak leaders (and Judeo-Christian anchors are being pulled up and dragged away). Why you think that is the case in America, I have no idea. Fact is, Christians like myself probably support the state of Israel more than many Jews in this country, and it directly correlates to Biblical teaching. The Jews are the chosen people of God, and history has proven that over and over and over again. As long as the state of Israel remains true to God, then it will survive (with the support of many, many Christians).

And how exactly has history "proven over and over" that "Jews are the chosen people of God"?
They seem to have been persecuted for centuries, culminating with the Holocaust. ???

[OABB]

Guys I have a radical new idea: lets set up a base in Constantinople and wage continuous Holy war against the Arabs so Jesus can kill everyone and we'll be saved.

I lold. People don't really understand how close this is to the truth. People really believe this. Nice post.

[Cito Pelon]

I have a feeling even if Jerusalem was split 50-50 or internationalized Arabs would still have an issue with a Jewish state. You know...because they exist and stuff.

:Broncos:

Yeah, pretty much.

The PLO Charter states unequivocally there will be a "quota" of Jews allowed to live "as second-class citizens" in the reclaimed Arab Palestine.

It's a matter of record, the PLO Charter is readily available to read any time one cares to Google it.

Christians also. There's a quota for Christians as second-class citizens also.

[loborugger]

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2010/06/we-bought-bullets.html

Appropriately, that tactic reportedly played a role in the assault on the Gaza relief flotilla. Eyewitnesses testify that Israeli troops seeking to commandeer the Mavi Marmara pointed their guns at the one-year-old son of ship engineer Ekrem Cetin, threatening to murder the child unless the captain stopped the ship.

Again, nice that we have involved ourselves in the middle of this squabble and perpetuate it. Good stuff.

[Cito Pelon]

Yes, mhgaffney.

Jews and Muslims have been in direct conflict, figuratively and literally since the Jewish expulsions from Medina dating back to the dark ages. Generally speaking, Islam believes Christians and Jews corrupted the message of Abraham, thus invalidating their claim to a 'true faith'.

And your characterization of Zionism vs. Palestinians, beyond being simplistic and one-sided, is wrong. Thousands of Palestinians work in Israel despite the threat that any day any one of them will cart a bomb on a civilian bus to murder innocent people.

Welcome in the Muslim world my ass. No one is welcome in the Muslim world except Muslims. Probably the most prejudicial, one-sided faith on the planet, and if you don't happen to agree with them, they'll be happy to kill you for feeling that way.

Well, it's not totally like that in the Muslim world, not totally. I'm not on that boat. It's only the Muslim extremists you can paint with that brush.

Trouble is, those Muslim extremists kill the Muslim moderates as readily as they kill Jews and Christians.

It kind of limits the pool of moderate Muslims, correct?

So, to be fair, it's not like all Muslims are seeking bloodshed and decapitations.

[Popps]

Religous and cultural enmity that spans millenia.

Besides that though, they're cool with each other.

[TheReverend]

Yeah, pretty much.

The PLO Charter states unequivocally there will be a "quota" of Jews allowed to live "as second-class citizens" in the reclaimed Arab Palestine.

It's a matter of record, the PLO Charter is readily available to read any time one cares to Google it.

Christians also. There's a quota for Christians as second-class citizens also.

I was surprised to read that if that's true. There are really large portions of the middle east that are dominantly Christian and have no issues with the Muslims that I know of. For example, a very large chunk of norther Iraq is Christian (interestingly enough, lots of them speak German as well).

From my experience working with a large number of translators, their issue has been with the Jews. They condemn the 9/11 attacks, but the saying they use to condemn it is "There were no Jews in those towers", meaning taking non-Jewish life is something wrong and to be lamented.

[Tombstone RJ]

YOU

ARE

INSANE

guys Islam is intolerant but I need to eradicate Arabs so the apocalypse can save me lolololol

seriously kill yourself please


Where did I say that? I never once said that. I said I believe in the protection of Israel, not the eradication of Islamic people. The Islamic people are the ones waging a holy war...

[Tombstone RJ]

If you REALLY believe that starving a bunch of Palenstinians to death is somehow the will of god....

If you REALLY think that's what 'jesus would do'...

Well then you're either colossally stupid, or incredibly dangerous.

Again, if the Palestinians negotiated it good faith then the killing on both sides could stop. Islam wants Israel gone, period. The Palestinians are simply the pawns of a greater Islamic war against Israel. Seriously, think about it.

[Tombstone RJ]

And how exactly has history "proven over and over" that "Jews are the chosen people of God"?
They seem to have been persecuted for centuries, culminating with the Holocaust. ???

Old Testament proves this (which is a historically acurate text) and all the wars that Israel has fought since 1947 proves this as well. The Islamic radicals can't beat the Israeli people on the battlefield with conventional war so they have lowered themselves to something called TERRORISM.

Or, haven't you heard of that term? Yah know, strapping a bomb to yourself and walking into a crowd of men, women and children and blowing yourself up...

Yah, that's the tactic of a desparate people who don't know how to live in peace with the Israelis.

Oh, and as for your point about the Jews being victomized thoughout history by anti-semetics (mainly in Europe) with the culmination of the Holocaust, yes, this is disturbing and sad and for many years this persecution came from Christians. That being said, no one is harder on the Jews than God, and those Jews who stray from God are unfortunately NOT protected by God. This, of course, is JMHO.

[Cito Pelon]

I was surprised to read that if that's true. There are really large portions of the middle east that are dominantly Christian and have no issues with the Muslims that I know of. For example, a very large chunk of norther Iraq is Christian (interestingly enough, lots of them speak German as well).

From my experience working with a large number of translators, their issue has been with the Jews. They condemn the 9/11 attacks, but the saying they use to condemn it is "There were no Jews in those towers", meaning taking non-Jewish life is something wrong and to be lamented.

Interesting post.

There are really large portions of the middle east that are dominantly Christian and have no issues with the Muslims

I disagree, but yes, Christians do have some small, not large, enclaves. Christians are being persecuted throughout the Muslim world. Again, I have to emphasize it's the Muslim extremists that are the problem, not the average Muslim. Trouble is the Muslim extremists also like to kill the Muslim moderates.

For example, a very large chunk of norther Iraq is Christian (interestingly enough, lots of them speak German as well).

Well, you may know better than me, but "very large chunk" I'm thinking is a stretch. I know Germany did export some of their citizens into the region when they were trying to build the Berlin to Baghdad railway, so that's very interesting you make that point. I believe you. I bet there's some Russian speakers there also. Yes? No?

Again, very interesting post.

From my experience working with a large number of translators, their issue has been with the Jews. They condemn the 9/11 attacks, but the saying they use to condemn it is "There were no Jews in those towers", meaning taking non-Jewish life is something wrong and to be lamented

Yeah, there's a problem that the Jews are not recognized as humans sometimes. I have a big problem with that.

[Meck77]

I fail to see the difference of an Israeli fighter jet leveling little shacks with women and children in them. Their intentions might not be to kill civilians but let's face it they don't really care and do it anyway. The only real difference is we don't buy those jets for the Palestinians therefore they don't have use them.

If you all you have is sticks, rocks or hand made bombs it's what you use.

I'd like to make it clear I think both sides are equally to blame in THEIR terrorist war on each other.

[DenverBrit]

Old Testament proves this (which is a historically acurate text) and all the wars that Israel has fought since 1947 proves this as well. The Islamic radicals can't beat the Israeli people on the battlefield with conventional war so they have lowered themselves to something called TERRORISM.

Or, haven't you heard of that term? Yah know, strapping a bomb to yourself and walking into a crowd of men, women and children and blowing yourself up...

Yah, that's the tactic of a desparate people who don't know how to live in peace with the Israelis.


Jews have been persecuted throughout history, only since 1947 have they had a homeland and still they must keep fighting to survive.
Old Testament aside, what has God chosen them for, other than constant punishment?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Interesting post.



I disagree, but yes, Christians do have some small, not large, enclaves. Christians are being persecuted throughout the Muslim world. Again, I have to emphasize it's the Muslim extremists that are the problem, not the average Muslim. Trouble is the Muslim extremists also like to kill the Muslim moderates.



Well, you may know better than me, but "very large chunk" I'm thinking is a stretch. I know Germany did export some of their citizens into the region when they were trying to build the Berlin to Baghdad railway, so that's very interesting you make that point. I believe you. I bet there's some Russian speakers there also. Yes? No?

Again, very interesting post.



Yeah, there's a problem that the Jews are not recognized as humans sometimes. I have a big problem with that.

The word "Iran" is a variation of the same latin root word that is used in "Aryan". Germans and Persians share cultural background. I believe that the latin root for "Aryan" means something akin to "exhalted people close to god", which is what both the Nazi's and the modern government of Iran believe(d) their people are.

[TheReverend]

Interesting post.



I disagree, but yes, Christians do have some small, not large, enclaves. Christians are being persecuted throughout the Muslim world. Again, I have to emphasize it's the Muslim extremists that are the problem, not the average Muslim. Trouble is the Muslim extremists also like to kill the Muslim moderates.



Well, you may know better than me, but "very large chunk" I'm thinking is a stretch. I know Germany did export some of their citizens into the region when they were trying to build the Berlin to Baghdad railway, so that's very interesting you make that point. I believe you. I bet there's some Russian speakers there also. Yes? No?

Again, very interesting post.



Yeah, there's a problem that the Jews are not recognized as humans sometimes. I have a big problem with that.

Granted "very large chunk" is open to interpretation, but from what I saw, it was a good deal of the northern region, and I have no idea how to quantify it statistically.

[Tombstone RJ]

I fail to see the difference of an Israeli fighter jet leveling little shacks with women and children in them. The only real difference is we don't buy those jets for the Palestinians therefore they don't have use them.

If you all you have is sticks, rocks or hand made bombs it's what you use.

Terrorists hide among the innocent all the time. It's a ruthless and inhumane way for them to garner sympathy from the rest of the world. Not only do the Islamic extremist target Israelis, they target their own moderates. Islamic extremists kill anyone and everyone who does not agree with them. If Palestinians have to die in order to prove a point then that is on the terrorists, not the Israelis. I'm not saying that Israelis are free from any all criticism, I'm simply saying they are fighting a very hard battle and yes, innocent people are caught in the middle.

[Swedish Extrovert]

The state of Israel existed long before the islamic factions lived on Israeli land. It belongs to the Jews, period. When the state of Israel was RE-ESTABLISHED in 1947 it was due to the Jew's backs being against the wall. 6 million Jews slaughtered while the rest of the world looked away. They deserve their own land and it is their land. They have tried over and over to negotiate in good faith with the Palistinians but the Palestinians never negotiate in good faith. So be it. Long live Israel!

This.

There have always been Jews in Israel. They did have their backs against the wall and decided to move back. The Palestinians didn't like it too much and the result was violence. The Jews protected themselves. The reason why Palestine keeps shrinking is the Palestinian's fault, and the Jews response is to protect themselves from aggressors. The fact of the matter is that Israel has one of the most responsible and ethical militaries in the world.

[Tombstone RJ]

Jews have been persecuted throughout history, only since 1947 have they had a homeland and still they must keep fighting to survive.

Old Testament aside, what has God chosen them for, other than constant punishment?

You can't just brush the Old Testament aside (which is exactly what you are doing). Israel was Re-Established in 1947.

[Swedish Extrovert]

I fail to see the difference of an Israeli fighter jet leveling little shacks with women and children in them. Their intentions might not be to kill civilians but let's face it they don't really care and do it anyway. The only real difference is we don't buy those jets for the Palestinians therefore they don't have use them.

If you all you have is sticks, rocks or hand made bombs it's what you use.

I'd like to make it clear I think both sides are equally to blame in THEIR terrorist war on each other.

Hamas uses Mosques and Schools for weapons storage facilities and launch sites. During Cast Lead, Israel TOLD Hamas that they were coming and they gave Hamas the exact times and places of when/where they were going to attack. Basically they said remove your weapons, or we'll remove them for you. Hamas failed to clear out the innocent civilians - to the contrary, they intentionally surrounded their weapons with civilians as the Israeli army came to attack the facilities.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Hamas uses Mosques and Schools for weapons storage facilities and launch sites. During Cast Lead, Israel TOLD Hamas that they were coming and they gave Hamas the exact times and places of when/where they were going to attack. Basically they said remove your weapons, or we'll remove them for you. Hamas failed to clear out the innocent civilians - to the contrary, they intentionally surrounded their weapons with civilians as the Israeli army came to attack the facilities.

It just shows you how pathetic these losers are that they use their civilians as pawns to be slaughtered so that they garner sympathy from easily-fooled morons across the globe (and especially in the US and France).

[Cito Pelon]

I fail to see the difference of an Israeli fighter jet leveling little shacks with women and children in them. Their intentions might not be to kill civilians but let's face it they don't really care and do it anyway. The only real difference is we don't buy those jets for the Palestinians therefore they don't have use them.

If you all you have is sticks, rocks or hand made bombs it's what you use.

I'd like to make it clear I think both sides are equally to blame in THEIR terrorist war on each other.

I'm more on the Irsaeli side. I think the Arab side has been much more the aggressor and perpetrated more atrocities.

Again, it's the Muslim extremists that are the problem, and, again, the Muslim extremists are as brutal to the Muslim moderates as they are to Jews or Christians. Seems like the extremists make little distinction between non-Muslims and moderate Muslims. These extremist Muslims are little more than animals.

[Tombstone RJ]

The French are a joke. They are being systematically infiltrated by Islam and they are happily complying like a french whore. Just give them some money so they feel important...

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=25

[sixtimeseight]

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2010/06/we-bought-bullets.html

Appropriately, that tactic reportedly played a role in the assault on the Gaza relief flotilla. Eyewitnesses testify that Israeli troops seeking to commandeer the Mavi Marmara pointed their guns at the one-year-old son of ship engineer Ekrem Cetin, threatening to murder the child unless the captain stopped the ship.

Again, nice that we have involved ourselves in the middle of this squabble and perpetuate it. Good stuff.

Well if "freedomintime.blogspot.com" said it then it must be true!

There is a fierce 3-way race for dumbest poster in this thread going on between you, mhgaffeny and extralives

[Cito Pelon]

Granted "very large chunk" is open to interpretation, but from what I saw, it was a good deal of the northern region, and I have no idea how to quantify it statistically.

I'm thinking German-speakers and Russian-speakers in the Northern regions is a function of economics and some influx of traders. I bet they also speak some Turkic and English, Greek, maybe some Chinese dialects.

Hell, the Mongols ruled that region for about 300 years. The Mongol chieftains put up many a monument to their reigns throughout Afghanistan, Iraq, Persia, all down the Persian Gulf into Saudi Arabia, Yemen.

The Mongol reign gets short shrift for its importance in world history.

[Cito Pelon]

This.

There have always been Jews in Israel. They did have their backs against the wall and decided to move back. The Palestinians didn't like it too much and the result was violence. The Jews protected themselves. The reason why Palestine keeps shrinking is the Palestinian's fault, and the Jews response is to protect themselves from aggressors. The fact of the matter is that Israel has one of the most responsible and ethical militaries in the world.

True.

[mhgaffney]

Tell that to the people being shot, gassed, and beaten up.

[mhgaffney]

You clowns should read the AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MALCOLM X.

He hated whites (for good reason) for many years. He converted to Islam in prison.

It was only after he made a pilgrimage to Mecca -- that Malcolm X changed.

He discovered that Islam is non racial. It opened his eyes.

After, he began working with white activists. At that point he became a serious threat to the white power structure in the US.

Soon after, Malcolm was murdered -- by black assassins -- but probably arranged/supported by the CIA.

The thought of Malcolm joining with Martin Luther King was terrifying to the white establishment.

[epicSocialism4tw]

You clowns should read the AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MALCOLM X.

He hated whites (for good reason) for many years. He converted to Islam in prison.

It was only after he made a pilgrimage to Mecca -- that Malcolm X changed.

He discovered that Islam is non racial. It opened his eyes.

After, he began working with white activists. At that point he became a serious threat to the white power structure in the US.

Soon after, Malcolm was murdered -- by black assassins -- but probably arranged/supported by the CIA.

The thought of Malcolm joining with Martin Luther King was terrifying to the white establishment.

Gaffney is a radical, and a terrorist sympathizer.

He has no problem with using murder to progress his radical ideas.

[Al Wilson]

The state of Israel existed long before the islamic factions lived on Israeli land. It belongs to the Jews, period. When the state of Israel was RE-ESTABLISHED in 1947 it was due to the Jew's backs being against the wall. 6 million Jews slaughtered while the rest of the world looked away. They deserve their own land and it is their land. They have tried over and over to negotiate in good faith with the Palistinians but the Palistinians never negotiate in good faith. So be it. Long live Israel!
It was never their land, it was Palestine's land. They took it by power. If you were in Palestine's feet and someone wanted to take your land would you negotiate ? Just stop with your non sense. Israel was never re-established. It's a land that was taken by power by the Jews. A land which did not even belong to them after the Jews converted to Islam thousands of years ago.

[Swedish Extrovert]

It was never their land, it was Palestine's land. They took it by power. If you were in Palestine's feet and someone wanted to take your land would you negotiate ? Just stop with your non sense. Israel was never re-established. It's a land that was taken by power by the Jews. A land which did not even belong to them after the Jews converted to Islam thousands of years ago.

Almost everything in this post is simply not true.

[Cito Pelon]

It was never their land, it was Palestine's land. They took it by power. If you were in Palestine's feet and someone wanted to take your land would you negotiate ? Just stop with your non sense. Israel was never re-established. It's a land that was taken by power by the Jews. A land which did not even belong to them after the Jews converted to Islam thousands of years ago.

With all due respect, you're a poor historian. Every aspect of that post is wrong.

[Al Wilson]

With all due respect, you're a poor historian. Every aspect of that post is wrong.
What's so wrong about that post genius ? It was a ****ing land taken by power by the ****ing Jews. What's so wrong about that smart ass

[Cito Pelon]

Almost everything in this post is simply not true.

Not "Almost". Everything.

But that's where we're at - some people actually believe the present Israel did not belong to the Hebrews, they actually believe the Hebrews did not in fact build the Temple of Jerusalem.

Pretty goofy, but that's where we're at.

Never underestimate some folks' capacity to be stupid. If you did before, you surely don't underestimate it now.

[Tombstone RJ]

What's so wrong about that post genius ? It was a ****ing land taken by power by the ****ing Jews. What's so wrong about that smart ass

Spoken like a true anti-semitic terrorist sympathizer.

[Tombstone RJ]

It was never their land, it was Palestine's land. They took it by power. If you were in Palestine's feet and someone wanted to take your land would you negotiate ? Just stop with your non sense. Israel was never re-established. It's a land that was taken by power by the Jews. A land which did not even belong to them after the Jews converted to Islam thousands of years ago.

Wrong.

[Tombstone RJ]

You clowns should read the AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MALCOLM X.

He hated whites (for good reason) for many years. He converted to Islam in prison.

It was only after he made a pilgrimage to Mecca -- that Malcolm X changed.

He discovered that Islam is non racial. It opened his eyes.

After, he began working with white activists. At that point he became a serious threat to the white power structure in the US.

Soon after, Malcolm was murdered -- by black assassins -- but probably arranged/supported by the CIA.

The thought of Malcolm joining with Martin Luther King was terrifying to the white establishment.

I seriously doubt you've read Malcom X's autobiography...

[Al Wilson]

Spoken like a true anti-semitic terrorist sympathizer.
You're insane, seriously.

So if I say something that some Jewish supporters don't like then supposedly I'm a terrorist sympathizer or I support terrorism. And my comments are true whether you like it or not. If you have anything to argue about regarding my comments then do so, but not with your stupid posts with false claims retard.

[Tombstone RJ]

You're insane, seriously.

So if I say something that some Jewish supporters don't like then supposedly I'm a terrorist sympathizer or I support terrorism. And my comments are true whether you like it or not. If you have anything to argue about regarding my comments then do so, but not with your stupid posts with false claims retard.

Name calling means you have nothing.

[Al Wilson]

Name calling means you have nothing.
What do you have to say ? All you said was the I sympathize terrorism, which is pathetic. Very weak.

[Al Wilson]

Wrong.
Right, whether you like it or not.

[Cito Pelon]

What's so wrong about that post genius ? It was a ****ing land taken by power by the ****ing Jews. What's so wrong about that smart ass

Hebrews have occupied that land longer than anybody else over the years.

They've fought harder for it, they've shed more blood for it, and they've made it more productive than all the other inhabitants. They deserve it, plus there is no doubt they have an ancestral right to it as much as anybody.

I'm gonna defend them to the day I die.

[Tombstone RJ]

What do you have to say ? All you said was the I sympathize terrorism, which is pathetic. Very weak.

Go back and read my posts. I think you'll understand what I'm saying.

[Tombstone RJ]

Right, whether you like it or not.

I don't like ignorance.

[Cito Pelon]

You're insane, seriously.

So if I say something that some Jewish supporters don't like then supposedly I'm a terrorist sympathizer or I support terrorism. And my comments are true whether you like it or not. If you have anything to argue about regarding my comments then do so, but not with your stupid posts with false claims retard.

I think you're a Jew hater, and we're gonna be at odds. I've found over the years if you once hate Jews, you always hate Jews.

[sixtimeseight]

What's so wrong about that post genius ? It was a ****ing land taken by power by the ****ing Jews. What's so wrong about that smart ass

Nice, so thinly veiled anti-semetism is alright around here now? Gotta love the double standard around here, if you make any comment slightly disparaging about Mormons you get banned, but jokers like this can pretty much spew pure vitriol against the Jews, without reproach.

[Maximus]

When people are mean to you after you oppress them for decades, you have carte blanche to shoot them in the face with your guns. Solid logic.

Does this mean that Native Americans have the right to shoot people in the face too?

[Al Wilson]

Hebrews have occupied that land longer than anybody else over the years.

They've fought harder for it, they've shed more blood for it, and they've made it more productive than all the other inhabitants. They deserve it, plus there is no doubt they have an ancestral right to it as much as anybody.

I'm gonna defend them to the day I die.
Just cause they used to live there thousands of years ago doesn't mean it belongs to them. There is no such thing as ancestral right. That's just the bull**** they spread around to make it look like they did nothing. Defend them till you die, I don't really care.

[Al Wilson]

I think you're a Jew hater, and we're gonna be at odds. I've found over the years if you once hate Jews, you always hate Jews.
Think what you want. I don't hate Jews. I made a few comments then I'm being called as someone who sympathizes terrorism or I'm a Jew hater. That's just lame.


My opinion is and always will be my opinion based on how I see it, but it doesn't mean you can judge me and say I'm this or that.

[Cito Pelon]

Just cause they used to live there thousands of years ago doesn't mean it belongs to them. There is no such thing as ancestral right. That's just the bull**** they spread around to make it look like they did nothing. Defend them till you die, I don't really care.

I'll say again, I'll defend the Israeli Jews til the day I die.

[Al Wilson]

Nice, so thinly veiled anti-semetism is alright around here now? Gotta love the double standard around here, if you make any comment slightly disparaging about Mormons you get banned, but jokers like this can pretty much spew pure vitriol against the Jews, without reproach.
You gotta be kidding me. How did I spew vitriol against the Jews ?

[Al Wilson]

I'll say again, I'll defend the Israeli Jews til the day I die.
Good for you, I got nothing against you anyways.

[Maximus]

Israeli forces have killed several times more Palestinian civilians including children than the other way around, just FYI.

Hummm lets see....

American Indians and Mexicans populated all of America at one time. Settlers come to America butcher, slaughter and pillage until they have driven the natives to near extinction. The Indians have enough sense to stop fighting because they are far outnumbered. They sign treaties and retain land.

Palestine/Israel is inhabited by Jews, Arabs, Palestinians etc. Jews and arabs fight for eons. The Jewish people finally gain more power and drive the Palestinians to the edge of their land. They are too stupid to stop fighting and causing havoc. The more powerful Jews ( no matter where the weapons come from ) keep kicking their ass because the Palestinians refuse to honor treaties.

I wonder how America would react if American Indians and Mexicans try to get their land back. Imagine the ass kicking that would occur....

[Maximus]

Just cause they used to live there thousands of years ago doesn't mean it belongs to them. There is no such thing as ancestral right. That's just the bull**** they spread around to make it look like they did nothing. Defend them till you die, I don't really care.

So, who does America belong to?

[DenverBrit]

So, who does America belong to?

The oil companies?

[enjolras]

Hummm lets see....

American Indians and Mexicans populated all of America at one time. Settlers come to America butcher, slaughter and pillage until they have driven the natives to near extinction. The Indians have enough sense to stop fighting because they are far outnumbered. They sign treaties and retain land.

Palestine/Israel is inhabited by Jews, Arabs, Palestinians etc. Jews and arabs fight for eons. The Jewish people finally gain more power and drive the Palestinians to the edge of their land. They are too stupid to stop fighting and causing havoc. The more powerful Jews ( no matter where the weapons come from ) keep kicking their ass because the Palestinians refuse to honor treaties.

I wonder how America would react if American Indians and Mexicans try to get their land back. Imagine the ass kicking that would occur....

Except that the Israeli's continue to encroach on the 'occupied' (post 6 days war) Palestinian areas that are technically under Palestinian control. This is in clear violation of not only the U.N. mandate that established Israel, but also international law. The U.S. government has pleaded with them to stop, to which Israel simply thumbed it's nose at the United States.

Most of all, your view of history is...uhm...rather skewed. The Jewish state was established by a U.N. mandate. They didn't simply 'gain more power', they rode the coat-tails of the remnants of the British Empire. In large part because the Allies simply had no idea what to do with the millions of displaced Jews following WWII.

This whole mess is so incredibly complex, with neither side really in the right. From the Palestinian perspective, it would be much like living in Florida with the rest of the world deciding that Florida is now an Arab state. You're given a short period of time to pack up and move into the panhandle because that's where they decided you should live.... After Georgia and Alabama invade and are defeated, you're left with just a shred of land for waging a war that you didn't really start. Your land is now 'occupied' and has been for over 40 years. You've technically signed a treaty with Florida protecting your boundaries, but the Arab state of Florida has decided that Pensacola is REALLY nice and so they're just going to move in and displace even more of your people. So on and so forth until you no longer exist.

I really wish we could just go back to 1948 and realize what a colossally stupid idea this was.

Here is a decent visualization:

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/3608544-israeli-settlements-the-red-button-that-could-detonate-and-destroy-the-peace-process/image/34979787-the-incredible-shrinking-land-of-palestine-

[gyldenlove]

Hummm lets see....

American Indians and Mexicans populated all of America at one time. Settlers come to America butcher, slaughter and pillage until they have driven the natives to near extinction. The Indians have enough sense to stop fighting because they are far outnumbered. They sign treaties and retain land.

Palestine/Israel is inhabited by Jews, Arabs, Palestinians etc. Jews and arabs fight for eons. The Jewish people finally gain more power and drive the Palestinians to the edge of their land. They are too stupid to stop fighting and causing havoc. The more powerful Jews ( no matter where the weapons come from ) keep kicking their ass because the Palestinians refuse to honor treaties.

I wonder how America would react if American Indians and Mexicans try to get their land back. Imagine the ass kicking that would occur....

You should have listened more in history class dillweed.

A rabble of guerillas, most of whom were armed with outdated flintlock weapons and farm tools took up the fight against the largest military power of the world, if it hadn't been for some timely help from allies such as France the ass-****ing the Brits would have administered onto Washington and his pals would have made Sodom and Gomorra look like protestant sunday school.

The indians had enough sense to stop fighting because they were killed off by flu epidemics and parasites brought over by religious zealots who had more diseases than common sense.

When did the Indians ever sign a treaty that granted them anything they wanted? I can't think of a single treaty signed by tribes that has been enacted into law and respected.

Just for the record, that last thing is happening and not a whole lot is happening about it. Mexicans now outnumber whites in many border areas, and their population is only growing, I don't see any asskickings beind handed out, do you?

[gyldenlove]

So, who does America belong to?

China and Saudi Arabia.

[Cito Pelon]

You should have listened more in history class dillweed.

A rabble of guerillas, most of whom were armed with outdated flintlock weapons and farm tools took up the fight against the largest military power of the world, if it hadn't been for some timely help from allies such as France the ass-****ing the Brits would have administered onto Washington and his pals would have made Sodom and Gomorra look like protestant sunday school.

The indians had enough sense to stop fighting because they were killed off by flu epidemics and parasites brought over by religious zealots who had more diseases than common sense.

When did the Indians ever sign a treaty that granted them anything they wanted? I can't think of a single treaty signed by tribes that has been enacted into law and respected.

Just for the record, that last thing is happening and not a whole lot is happening about it. Mexicans now outnumber whites in many border areas, and their population is only growing, I don't see any asskickings beind handed out, do you?

I thought you were from Denmark.

[Cito Pelon]

China and Saudi Arabia.

Preach it, Dane.

[sixtimeseight]

I thought you were from Denmark.

He is, and his knowledge of american history appears to have been cobbled together from the back of sugar packets.

[extralife]

Hummm lets see....

American Indians and Mexicans populated all of America at one time. Settlers come to America butcher, slaughter and pillage until they have driven the natives to near extinction. The Indians have enough sense to stop fighting because they are far outnumbered. They sign treaties and retain land.

Palestine/Israel is inhabited by Jews, Arabs, Palestinians etc. Jews and arabs fight for eons. The Jewish people finally gain more power and drive the Palestinians to the edge of their land. They are too stupid to stop fighting and causing havoc. The more powerful Jews ( no matter where the weapons come from ) keep kicking their ass because the Palestinians refuse to honor treaties.

I wonder how America would react if American Indians and Mexicans try to get their land back. Imagine the ass kicking that would occur....

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read in my life.

[Maximus]

The indians had enough sense to stop fighting because they were killed off by flu epidemics and parasites brought over by religious zealots who had more diseases than common sense.

When did the Indians ever sign a treaty that granted them anything they wanted? I can't think of a single treaty signed by tribes that has been enacted into law and respected.

Just for the record, that last thing is happening and not a whole lot is happening about it. Mexicans now outnumber whites in many border areas, and their population is only growing, I don't see any asskickings beind handed out, do you?

1. The indians had enough sense to stop fighting... Glad you agree
2. The Treaty of Echota (1835), The Treaty of Greenville (1795), The Treaty of Fort Armstrong (1834) .... All signed by the Indians all broached by Americans sounds like Israel and Palestine to me.
3. No ass kickings because they are not throwing rocks and grenades and all sorts of other stupid acts that will instigate the ass whipping

Dillweed Indeed

[DenverBrit]

1. The indians had enough sense to stop fighting... Glad you agree
2. The treaty of echota (1835), the treaty of greenville (1795), the treaty of fort armstrong (1834) .... all signed by the indians all broached by americans sounds like israel and palestine to me.
3. No ass kickings because they are not throwing rocks and grenades and all sorts of other stupid acts that will instigate the ass whipping

dillweed indeed

8')

[fdf]

I'd like to add that over 10,000,000 Ukrainians died in the Soviet Holocaust. Most people don't even know that it happened. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

My father having been born in the Ukraine in 1926 survived it. :thumbsup: He's now 85 and still kicking strong!

This has been lost to history, largely because western press found it deeply inconvenient to know (or at least to report) anything bad about Lenin or Stalin. "I have seen the future and it works!" The body count caused by socialists in the 20th century was awful.

I have known several holocaust survivors (all Jewish). They came out very strong. I suspect they were the tough ones to begin with. Kudos to your dad.

[Rock Chalk]

This really the on point...

The Jews hate the Arabs

The Arabs hate the Jews


And of course, its not all of them that hate each other, but its enough.
True

So, what is our solution here in America? Obvious. We must take sides. We must interject ourselves into their squabble. We must define who is good and who is bad.

False. We do not take sides. In the history of American intervention in Jewish/Arab relations we have sided equally with both sides as a governemtn as both sides ahve been equally abhorrent to each other. But keep drinking liberal kool aid.

South Vietnam - good North Vietnam - bad

If North Vietnam and the communist regime was so awesome, how come over 3 million Vietnamese escape Vietnam in the 3 years after America left because of the oppression of the Communist regime?

Kuwait - good Iraq - bad

Last I checked, Kuwait didn't invade their neighbor and try to steal their resources.

Colombian govt - good Colombian rebels - bad

I got no comment on this. All Columbians are pieces of **** IMO.

Israel - good Arabs - bad

See first quote. Israel has shared its denouncing from America.

And what the hell does this do? Nothing, but piss everyone off.

When World War II ended, America decided that the world needed peacekeepers of some sort because it was clear Europe was no ****ing use whatsoever and Russia, China, the Middle East, Africa and the rest of Asia was in no position to do so. We tried to go back to isolationism after WWI but what happened? Europe ****ed us again and as a result 500,000 American lives were lost in WWII. Sinc ethen, combined, all conflicts America has engaged in over the past 60 years have not equalled the death toll of WWII so I think whether the rest of the ****ing world hates us or not, that we made the right choice. SOMEONE needs to wield the stick and we are the ONLY country capable of doing so at th emoment and thank God for that because can you imagine if Soviet Russia or Red China were wielding the stick?

We arm the Israelis. We arm the Arabs. Then, we pay the Israelis not to fight the Arabs and we pay the Arabs not to fight the Jews. We tell the Israelis not to build homes on territory they control. We tell the Arabs not to fight back against the Israelis. Each administration pushes the two sides to sign meaningless, pointless 'peace treaties' that solve nothing and pat ourselves on the back telling ourselves what a damn fine job we have done.

WE do not arm the Arabs. Companies in America do, but most certainly not under government authority. Arms dealers in America need tighter trestrictions on who they sell arms to and that will fix the problem. We arm the Israelis because that is THEIR ****ing land and they are VASTLY outnumbered and need arms to protect themselves. Without us, they would be wiped out. You think Genocide is OK? Go join the neo-nazi movement.

How about we let the children squabble amongst each other and not arm them to the Nth degree? And when they do fight, lets not send emergency arms to Israel - or call off the Israelis when they are about to do in the PLO?

This is just naive and stupid. If America isn't arming them someone else is. You think every weapon in the region is American made? HAte to break it to you but 90% of the Arab weapons are Russian or Chinese made. America does not make AK-47s. The RPGs they are using are Russian made.

Dimes to donuts - if they didnt have us there to fall back on, the two sides would figure out a way to be more civil with each other. We would pocket a far amount of our own money, and people who live in caves on the other side of the planet would have a less rhetoric to toss our direction.

No, if America did not intercede Israel would commit genocide on an entire race of people until they ran out of weapons and then the rest of the Muslim community would overrun Israel and commit genocide on the Jews living on land they RIGHTFULLY possess. Just because the pedophile Muhammad took land and terrorized people does not make it rightfully Islamic land. In fact, that land belongs to the Jews regardless of how they got it back. It was always their land, everyone else had usurped it from them.

Or, we can continue to be the world's policeman, interfering in everyone else's internal affairs, and go broke while pissing the world off.
Yes, we will continue to be such because like I said we could fight in wars for another 60 years and not equal the deathtoll of the last world war, the last war when America was NOT the world's police men.

Who gives a **** what they think. In the end, America DOES keep the world a safer place whether they like it or not.

[gyldenlove]

1. The indians had enough sense to stop fighting... Glad you agree
2. The Treaty of Echota (1835), The Treaty of Greenville (1795), The Treaty of Fort Armstrong (1834) .... All signed by the Indians all broached by Americans sounds like Israel and Palestine to me.
3. No ass kickings because they are not throwing rocks and grenades and all sorts of other stupid acts that will instigate the ass whipping

Dillweed Indeed

1. It is hard to fight when you are dead, unless you are a zombie.

2. I am not sure if you have a point or if you are just listing treaties for the heck of it, but the Palestinians have never signed a treaty with Israel ceeding significant territories.

3. Mexican invasion (http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/06/01/illegal-immigrants-crime-spree-in-wa/?test=latestnews) yeah they are real model citizens. Good thing they don't throw stones or anything.

[Meck77]

Terrorists hide among the innocent all the time. It's a ruthless and inhumane way for them to garner sympathy from the rest of the world. Not only do the Islamic extremist target Israelis, they target their own moderates. Islamic extremists kill anyone and everyone who does not agree with them..

Jews have been known to kill their own leaders as well. Does Yitzhak Rabin ring a bell?

The more you try to point out the differences in "terrorism" and extremism the more and more you point out how similar the two groups are.



On 4 November 1995 (11th of Heshvan on the Hebrew Calendar) Prime Minister Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir, a radical right-wing Orthodox Jew who opposed the signing of the Oslo Accords and believed he was saving the country from a dire fate. The shooting took place in the evening as Rabin was leaving a mass rally in Tel Aviv in support of the Oslo process. Rabin was rushed to the nearby Ichilov Hospital, where he died on the operating table of blood loss and a punctured lung within 40 minutes. Amir was immediately seized by Rabin's bodyguards. He was later tried, found guilty, and sentenced to life imprisonment. After an emergency cabinet meeting, Israel's foreign minister, Shimon Peres was appointed as acting Israeli prime minister.[21]

The assassination of Rabin came as a great shock to the Israeli public and much of the rest of the world. Hundreds of thousands of Israelis thronged the square where Rabin was assassinated to mourn his death. Young people, in particular, turned out in large numbers, lighting memorial candles and singing peace songs. Rabin's funeral was attended by many world leaders, among them U.S. president Bill Clinton, Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak and King Hussein of Jordan. Bill Clinton delivered a eulogy whose final words were in Hebrew—"Shalom, Haver" (Hebrew: שלום חבר‎, lit. Goodbye, Friend).[22][23]

[Spider]

1. The indians had enough sense to stop fighting... Glad you agree
2. The Treaty of Echota (1835), The Treaty of Greenville (1795), The Treaty of Fort Armstrong (1834) .... All signed by the Indians all broached by Americans sounds like Israel and Palestine to me.
3. No ass kickings because they are not throwing rocks and grenades and all sorts of other stupid acts that will instigate the ass whipping

Dillweed Indeed

ever invite an Indian over for thanksgiving ? ;D
seriously though , wrongs on both sides have occurred , israel is no more innocent then the arabs .......... just a fact of life :D oh did I forget to mention the Raiders suck ? and it is dayum good to see u posting again hippy :D

[mhgaffney]

The Israelis have now acknowledged that they lied about this incident. But have the media outlets that originally posted it issued a correction or a retraction? Of course not. This is how it always works.

IDF admits doctoring audio of raid on Gaza flotilla

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0606/idf-admits-doctoring-audio-gaza-flotilla/

The Israeli Defense Force has issued a "clarification" admitting it manipulated audio of its raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla.

On Friday, the IDF released audio of what it said was an exchange between Israel Navy officers and the crew of the Mavi Marmara, the main vessel in the flotilla. In it, voices could be heard telling the Israeli soldiers to "go back to Auschwitz" and "we're helping Arabs go against the US -- don't forget 9/11, guys."

But flotilla passengers quickly began disputing the veracity of the audio clip.

Investigative journalist Max Blumenthal reports that the head of the Free Gaza movement, Huwaida Arraf, could be heard on the videotape asserting the flotilla's right to enter Gaza territory. But Arraf says she wasn't on board the Mavi Marmara, and was actually on board another ship, the Challenger One. Another flotilla member whose voice can be heard on the audio, Ali Abunimah, also said he wasn't aboard the Mavi Marmara.

According to a news report from the Palestinian news agency Ma'an, Arraf suggests the audio of her that appeared in the clip came from an earlier exchange between her and Israeli forces, but she admits she "could not be sure" she didn't repeat her assertion during exchanges with the IDF during the raid.

On Saturday, the IDF's public blog issued a "correction" explaining that the tape had been edited "so as to make it easier for people to listen to the exchange."

The IDF stated:

"There have been questions regarding the authenticity of the recording as well as its attribution to a communication with the Mavi Marmara.
So to clarify: the audio was edited down to cut out periods of silence over the radio as well as incomprehensible comments so as to make it easier for people to listen to the exchange. We have now uploaded the entire segment of 5 minutes and 58 seconds in which the exchange took place and the comments were made."

"This transmission had originally cited the Mavi Marmara ship as being the source of these remarks, however, due to an open channel, the specific ship or ships in the “Freedom Flotilla” responding to the Israeli Navy could not be identified."

The IDF's latest version of the audio is actually the third version the military organization has released. Its first audio version of the incident, a one-minute clip released the day of the raid, did not include any of the controversial comments -- no voices can be heard saying "Go back to Auschwitz" or "remember 9/11."

Critics of Israel have suggested the audio clip -- and the IDF's admission it was edited -- shows the Israeli military is involved in a propaganda campaign to discredit the flotilla as a humanitarian effort. And Blumenthal notes that the IDF audio has already made its way into US media as fact.

"Hours after the IDF’s admission, major news outlets which reported on the doctored audio clip as though it was a shocking revelation and not a scandalous forgery have still not corrected themselves," Blumenthal writes.

Some of Israel's other efforts to sway public opinion its way have resulted in embarrassment. Government spokesmen on Saturday apologized for distributing a video that mocked the flotilla members, nine of whom died when Israeli commandos raided the flotilla on Monday.

The video, a satire on "We are the World," shows a group of singers declaring, "There's no people dying/So the best that we can do/Is create the greatest bluff of all/We must go on pretending day by day that in Gaza/There's crisis hunger and plague."

Following a storm of protests from critics pointing out that the UN has declared that Gaza is in the midst of a humanitarian crisis, the Israeli Government Press Office declared, "Due to a misunderstanding on our part, earlier (Friday) we inadvertently issued a video link that had been sent for our perusal. ... It was not intended for general release. The contents of the video in no way represent the official policy of either the Government Press Office or of the State of Israel."

The following audio is the original clip released by the Israeli Defense Force on May 31, 2010. It does not include any of the inflammatory comments heard in later versions.

To hear the clips go here:
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0606/idf-admits-doctoring-audio-gaza-flotilla/

[barryr]

Weapons also found on that boat. Yeah, just humanitarian trip alright.

http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=3423928

[El Minion]

Weapons also found on that boat. Yeah, just humanitarian trip alright.

http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=3423928

WTF!? The video was posted 05/11/2009. Gaza flotilla raid happened on May 30, 2010. You can't be that dense.

[barryr]

WTF!? The video was posted 05/11/2009. Gaza flotilla raid happened on May 30, 2010. You can't be that dense.

Anti-semite.

[barryr]

Reuters at it again.

Reuters Admits Cropping Photos of Ship Clash, Denies Political Motive

The British-based Reuters news agency has been stung for the second time by charges that it edited politically sensitive photos in a way that casts Israel in a bad light. But this time Reuters claims it wasn’t at fault.

The news agency reacted to questions raised by an American blogger who showed that Reuters' photo service edited out knives and blood traces from pictures taken aboard the activist ship Mavi Marmara during a clash with Israeli commandos last week. Nine people were killed and scores were injured in the clash.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/08/reuters-fake-photos-ihh-gaza-blockade-commandos/

[mhgaffney]

I heard a report on a local country station that Israel reported finding knives, axes, hammers and bullet proof vests on the boats.

They never explained how these so called weapons were a threat to Israeli tanks and Apache helicopters.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Reuters at it again.

Reuters Admits Cropping Photos of Ship Clash, Denies Political Motive

The British-based Reuters news agency has been stung for the second time by charges that it edited politically sensitive photos in a way that casts Israel in a bad light. But this time Reuters claims it wasn’t at fault.

The news agency reacted to questions raised by an American blogger who showed that Reuters' photo service edited out knives and blood traces from pictures taken aboard the activist ship Mavi Marmara during a clash with Israeli commandos last week. Nine people were killed and scores were injured in the clash.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/08/reuters-fake-photos-ihh-gaza-blockade-commandos/

Wow.

[DenverBrit]

It's interesting that FOX faux News didn't mention the other photos Reuters have on their site. Most show clearly that the commandos had been assaulted. Also shown are 'peace activists' carrying steel bars and a lot of blood shots. The cropped photo has been restored to its original.

The slide show doesn't seem to work, click on "show all images" at the top right.
http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=USRTR2EV0A#a=1

[El Minion]

Anti-semite.

Hilarious! You do know that Palestinians are semites Hilarious!

[mhgaffney]

Here is how Israel responded to a Palestinian ember of the Knesset who was on the aid ship.

Total hysteria. Another Palestinian activist leader appears to have been targeted for execution. However, the commandos misidentified their target -- and murdered the wrong man.

Not the first time this has happened.

The madness is escalating in Israel -- as the country digs itself deeper in the hole of its own creation.

June 8, 2010

Officials Try to Strip Haneen Zoubi of Citizenship

Witchhunt for an Israeli MP

By JONATHAN COOK

www.counterpunch.org
Nazareth.

An Israeli parliamentary committee recommended stripping an Arab MP of her privileges yesterday in a move to prepare the ground for putting her on trial for participating last week in the Gaza-bound aid flotilla attacked by Israeli commandos.

Haneen Zoubi, who has become a national hate figure since challenging Israel’s account of the confrontation, said yesterday she was facing “a witch-hunt”.

The interior minister, Eli Yishai, has submitted a request for her citizenship to be revoked, and a bill -- labelled the “Zoubi Law” -- is being considered that would allow a serving MP to be expelled for “inciting” against the state.

Ms Zoubi has been provided with a bodyguard after receiving a spate of death threats. A popular Facebook page in Hebrew is calling for her execution and an online petition for her expulsion from the parliament has attracted tens of thousands of supporters.

Last week, in unprecedented scenes as she tried to address parliament, Ms Zoubi was heckled into silence by Jewish legislators shouting out “terrorist” and “traitor”. Guards only narrowly prevented a far-right parliamentarian from attacking her.

Yesterday’s hearing of the parliament’s house committee was originally intended to consider revoking the immunity of six Arab MPs, including Ms Zoubi, who travelled to Libya in April. All the Arab MPs boycotted the meeting.

However, the committee chairman, Yariv Levin, of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud Party, switched the focus to Ms Zoubi’s involvement in the flotilla.

Legal advisers said the MP was still being investigated for attempting to enter a closed military area and violence against the commandos. After she disembarked from the Mavi Marmara in Ashdod last week, Ms Zoubi said she had been questioned by police about possessing a weapon.

The committee approved by a majority of 7-1 stripping her of parliamentary privileges that take away her diplomatic passport, reportedly to prevent her fleeing the country, and withdraw help with litigation fees. Parliament must approve the decision.

Mr Levin accused Ms Zoubi of betraying the country and said she must be put on trial. “What Zoubi did crossed the line and even in a democracy there must be red lines. Whoever sails to Hamas is a supporter of terror,” he said.

Ms Zoubi responded: “They conducted a kangaroo court against me. They have called on the public to harm me.”

An editorial in the liberal Haaretz newspaper warned yesterday that an atmosphere of “dangerous incitement” was developing against Israel’s Palestinian minority, a fifth of the population. Two other Arab MPs, Ahmed Tibi and Taleb al Sana, revealed that they too had received death threats.

In addition to the removal of Ms Zoubi’s privileges, she is also facing the revocation of her citizenship. The measure has been used only twice before in Israel’s history -- both times against Palestinian citizens accused of terrorism.

Last week, Mr Yishai wrote to the attorney general asking for the go-ahead, saying Ms Zoubi had “headed a group of terrorists” and was “undoubtedly aware of the activists’ preparations for the attack against IDF troops. This is a premeditated act of treason.”

Orna Kohn, a lawyer with Adalah, a legal centre for the country’s Palestinian minority, said Mr Yishai’s move was “uncharted legal territory” that could leave Ms Zoubi stateless, in violation of international law. “There is simply no precedent for revoking the citizenship of an MP,” she said.

After Ms Zoubi’s release last week, she said she had seen three passengers shot in the head by soldiers, and two more left to bleed to death. According to autopsies conducted in Turkey, five of the nine dead passengers were shot in the head, and many of the lethal shots were fired from close range.

During her address to the parliament last week, Ms Zoubi called for an international investigation and demanded to know why Israel had not published photographs and video footage it confiscated from passengers that related to the nine dead and dozens of wounded.

After the session, she said: “It was so hostile in the chamber that, had MPs been allowed to carry guns, I am sure someone would have shot me.”

Israel has been swept by rightwing demonstrations in support of the raid on the flotilla over the past few days.

A Hebrew Facebook page “Execute MP Haneen Zoubi” features a cartoon image of the MP with crosshairs on her forehead as the figure waves a Palestinian flag with a bloody Star of David at its centre.

Ms Zoubi said she had been surprised to learn that the armed bodyguard -- normally reserved for government ministers and the head of state -- was supposed to remain with her even inside the parliament chamber. “What does that say about the threat posed by my fellow MPs?”

Four other leaders of Israel’s Palestinian community who were on the ships are being investigated by police. After the mass release of detainees last week, they were freed to house arrest but are banned from leaving the country.

At his remand hearing, Sheik Raed Salah, a leader of Israel’s Islamic Movement, said of the flotilla episode: “The soldiers tried to kill me. They fired in the direction of someone else they thought was me.”

Rumours circulating widely that Sheikh Salah had been killed in the commando raid eight days ago were not denied by Israeli officials and only ended when his family identified that a body brought to an Israeli hospital was not his.

Jonathan Cook is a writer and journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. His latest books are “Israel and the Clash of Civilisations: Iraq, Iran and the Plan to Remake the Middle East” (Pluto Press) and “Disappearing Palestine: Israel's Experiments in Human Despair” (Zed Books). His website is www.jkcook.net.

[W*GS]

Every Palestinian is a perfect saint, every Israeli is the devil.

That's how gaff-o thinks. Too bad his reality ain't reality.

[Bronco Yoda]

I wonder how America would react if Mexicans try to get their land back. Imagine the ass kicking that would occur....

How many millions of illegal aliens are here from down south.... and it's not even PC to ask for if they're a US citizen when they get busted for breaking the law.

Yah... we're kicking some serious ass here Hilarious!

[barryr]

Hilarious! You do know that Palestinians are semites Hilarious!

And that u are a dullard Hilarious!

[mhgaffney]

Every Palestinian is a perfect saint, every Israeli is the devil.

That's how gaff-o thinks. Too bad his reality ain't reality.

No, here is what I think.

Israel's military seizure of the Arab W Bank, Gaza, Sinai, and the Golan Heights in the 1967 war was a land grab -- pure and simple.

In the 19th century Israel might have gotten away with it. But in the 20th century a code of international law had emerged.

The principle is very simple: military seizure and occupation does not equate to legitimate ownership. The world (including the US) demanded that Israel withdraw.

This is the root issue -- and you would rather sling dirt than deal with it.

[El Minion]

And that u are a dullard Hilarious!

You do know that one definition for dullards is starting threads about junk science (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2860374&postcount=7) they continue to believe to be true even after being proved wrong and resorting to name calling when reminded of their stupidness. So what name will you be calling me next barryr?

[epicSocialism4tw]

You do know that one definition for dullards is starting threads about junk science (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2860374&postcount=7) they continue to believe to be true even after being proved wrong and resorting to name calling when reminded of their stupidness. So what name will you be calling me next barryr?

"Junk science"? The post you linked was about polling, which is not scientific anyway. Joke's on you.