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View Full Version : someone name one other head coach..


tsiguy96
06-03-2010, 06:29 AM
whos future was tied to the 25th pick in the draft. kthanx

jhns
06-03-2010, 06:42 AM
Name one other coach that gave away 2 25 year old pro bowlers in their first two seasons. You do that and I will name you the coach that has his future tied to a 25th pick QB.

tsiguy96
06-03-2010, 06:43 AM
Name one other coach that gave away 2 25 year old pro bowlers in their first two seasons. You do that and I will name you the coach that has his future tied to a 25th pick QB.

define "gave away".....

jhns
06-03-2010, 06:45 AM
define "gave away".....

I will make it easy. They aren't on the team no matter what the reason.

You see, there is no way to compare this situation to any other. McDaniels has set himself up in a very unique situation. That doesn't mean his job is on the line but it does mean it is dumb to try comparing it to situations that aren't at all similar.

tsiguy96
06-03-2010, 06:50 AM
I will make it easy. They aren't on the team no matter what the reason.

You see, there is no way to compare this situation to any other. McDaniels has set himself up in a very unique situation. That doesn't mean his job is on the line but it does mean it is dumb to try comparing it to situations that aren't at all similar.

so because he traded two players away, both for very, very understandable reasons, his future is tied directly to that of the 25th pick in the draft...gotcha

Beantown Bronco
06-03-2010, 06:53 AM
Name one other coach that gave away 2 25 year old pro bowlers in their first two seasons. You do that and I will name you the coach that has his future tied to a 25th pick QB.

Until you can name one other coach that even had 2 25 year old pro bowlers on their roster, your comparison is pure BS, as usual.

fontaine
06-03-2010, 06:53 AM
McDaniel's job isn't on the line because of Tebow, it's on the line for the same reason every other young, first time coache's job is on the line. You've got to produce results in the first 3/4 years. The team has to improve now with an eye towards winning and getting into the playoffs in a year or two at the most.

And yes, first round picks are a very big part of that. It's not just Tebow, but guys like Ayers, Smith, Moreno, Thomas, and Tebow and our first round pick next year that go a long ways towards shaping the future of the team for better or for worse.

jhns
06-03-2010, 06:58 AM
so because he traded two players away, both for very, very understandable reasons, his future is tied directly to that of the 25th pick in the draft...gotcha

It isn't tied to the pick because of the picks location. It is tied to the pick because his trading of the 25 year old pro bowl QB caused this offense to regress a lot. Now he just gave away his top offensive weapon. His future is tied to Tebow and the young receivers because if he doesn't start replacing some of this talent, he won't win much. He needs a QB and Tebow was his choice. It doesn't matter where he got the QB, his future with this team is still tied to that QB.

That is unless you think Orton is suddenly going to get better with less talent at receiver, injuries on the o-line, and inexperience on the o-line. I'm sure he will only get better as the situation aroud him makes it harder on him. If that is really what you think then his future is tied to Orton and not Tebow. Either way, he needs a much more productive offense. I doubt Bowlen accepts such mediocrity for long.

tsiguy96
06-03-2010, 07:00 AM
It isn't tied to the pick because of the picks location. It is tied to the pick because his trading of the 25 year old pro bowl QB caused this offense to regress a lot. Now he just gave away his top offensive weapon. His future is tied to Tebow and the young receivers because if he doesn't start replacing some of this talent, he won't win much. He needs a QB and Tebow was his choice. It doesn't matter where he got the QB, his future with this team is still tied to that QB.

That is unless you think Orton is suddenly going to get better with less talent at receiver, injuries on the o-line, and inexperience on the o-line. I'm sure he will only get better as the situation aroud him makes it harder on him. If that is really what you think then his future is tied to Orton and not Tebow. Either way, he needs a much more productive offense. I doubt Bowlen accepts such mediocrity for long.

man you must live a miserable life.

jhns
06-03-2010, 07:10 AM
man you must live a miserable life.

I live a wonderful life.

fontaine
06-03-2010, 07:10 AM
It isn't tied to the pick because of the picks location. It is tied to the pick because his trading of the 25 year old pro bowl QB caused this offense to regress a lot.

McDaniels didn't trade Cutler, he only gave in to the demands of a pouty crybaby who didn't want to play in Denver any more.

This one upcoming year in Chicago is going to do more damage to Cutler in one season than all his seasons in Denver behind that busted OL in a Mike Martz offense that demands it's QB's to hold onto the ball to let the big plays develop while they take beating after beating.

jhns
06-03-2010, 07:13 AM
McDaniels didn't trade Cutler, he only gave in to the demands of a pouty crybaby who didn't want to play in Denver any more.

This one upcoming year in Chicago is going to do more damage to Cutler in one season than all his seasons in Denver behind that busted OL in a Mike Martz offense that demands it's QB's to hold onto the ball to let the big plays develop while they take beating after beating.

Good for Cutler and the Bears. McDaniels still gave him away.

tsiguy96
06-03-2010, 07:14 AM
Good for Cutler and the Bears. McDaniels still gave him away.

:spit:

delusional

jhns
06-03-2010, 07:15 AM
Until you can name one other coach that even had 2 25 year old pro bowlers on their roster, your comparison is pure BS, as usual.

So what you are saying is there isn't another situation that we can compare this one to? I'm pretty sure that is the exact point I was making. Your reply is dumb as usual.

jhns
06-03-2010, 07:18 AM
:spit:

delusional

So Cutler is still here and I imagined all of it? Man, I need to lay off the drugs.

fontaine
06-03-2010, 07:19 AM
McDaniels still gave him away.

This is probably why none of your other posts about this team make any sense either.

jhns
06-03-2010, 07:21 AM
This is probably why none of your other posts about this team make any sense either.

My posts don't make sense because McDaniels threw a fit and gave away his 25 year old pro bowl QB? I'm not sure your post makes sense.

HAT
06-03-2010, 07:24 AM
. McDaniels still gave him away.

Interesting take there draghns7. I was under the impression that Cutler was traded for:

Robert Ayers
Demaryius Thomas
Eric Decker
1/2 of Richard Quinn
1/2 of Seth Olsen
1/3 of Tim Tebow
Kyle Orton

jhns
06-03-2010, 07:29 AM
Interesting take there draghns7. I was under the impression that Cutler was traded for:

Robert Ayers
Demaryius Thomas
Eric Decker
1/2 of Richard Quinn
1/2 of Seth Olsen
1/3 of Tim Tebow
Kyle Orton

So what you are saying is we gave him away?

As soon as some of that produces, I will think we got something for him. As soon as we get to stop spending tons of resources on the QB position I will think we didn't give him away.

fontaine
06-03-2010, 07:35 AM
My posts don't make sense because McDaniels threw a fit and gave away his 25 year old pro bowl QB? I'm not sure your post makes sense.

You give McDaniels too much credit. In a few weeks Bowlen went from saying "Jay is the man around here" to telling McD to go ahead and trade him because of Jay's emo crybaby routine of hiding behind his agent and refusing to talk to the guy that pays him.

The only thing to note here was that the guy who said "yes sir Mr Bowlen" is still part of this team and the guy who didn't event want to talk to the owner is now an interception machine in Chicago.

jhns
06-03-2010, 07:40 AM
You give McDaniels too much credit. In a few weeks Bowlen went from saying "Jay is the man around here" to telling McD to go ahead and trade him because of Jay's emo crybaby routine of hiding behind his agent and refusing to talk to the guy that pays him.

The only thing to note here was that the guy who said "yes sir Mr Bowlen" is still part of this team and the guy who didn't event want to talk to the owner is now an interception machine in Chicago.

You keep thinking you actually know what happened. I will continue to live in reality. Bowlen doesn't care why those players are gone. If McDaniels doesn't produce, I doubt it will be a good enough excuse to save his job.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-03-2010, 07:40 AM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

Bliss.

And yeah, jhns, I mentioned that you're on my ignore list. I'm a happier person because of it. The less bull**** I have to read on a daily basis, the better.

Irish Stout
06-03-2010, 07:42 AM
So what you are saying is we gave him away?

As soon as some of that produces, I will think we got something for him. As soon as we get to stop spending tons of resources on the QB position I will think we didn't give him away.

Well I'd like to see Cutler start producing before I concede we gave anything away.

Broncoman13
06-03-2010, 07:43 AM
whos future was tied to the 25th pick in the draft. kthanx

First let me say that I love the Tebow pick and I think that he will do great things, so even if his future is tied to the 25th pick, I'm not too worried about it.

So, for argument's sake tsi, name me one other head coach that has:

1) Traded off a "Franchise QB" under the age of 26.
2) Traded off a "Franchise WR" under the age of 26.
3) Started a season 6-0 and not made the playoffs.
4) Finished a season 2-8 after a 6-0 start.
5) Caused more of a ruckus in his inaugural season.

You see, it isn't just the Tim Tebow pick, its a ton of different things that now can be "fixed" with Tim Tebow... or Tim Tebow can be that final straw which is what most think when it comes to Tim Tebow.

Personally, I think Tim Tebow becomes Josh McDaniels' Steve Young making McD look like Walsh or Seifert. I'm not too worried about it, but you have to be pretty numb to facts to not see why McD is tied to Tim Tebow which happened to be the 25th pick.

jhns
06-03-2010, 07:45 AM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

Bliss.

And yeah, jhns, I mentioned that you're on my ignore list. I'm a happier person because of it. The less bull**** I have to read on a daily basis, the better.

Its not like I care what you say. It is obvious you never actually avoid my posts. You will be responding to my posts again in no time. You will then cry a bunch and put me on ignore again. It is a cute little game you like to play. I find it funny.

fontaine
06-03-2010, 07:46 AM
Well I'd like to see Cutler start producing before I concede we gave anything away.

Ha! Hilarious!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-03-2010, 07:48 AM
First let me say that I love the Tebow pick and I think that he will do great things, so even if his future is tied to the 25th pick, I'm not too worried about it.

So, for argument's sake tsi, name me one other head coach that has:

1) Traded off a "Franchise QB" under the age of 26.
2) Traded off a "Franchise WR" under the age of 26.
3) Started a season 6-0 and not made the playoffs.
4) Finished a season 2-8 after a 6-0 start.
5) Caused more of a ruckus in his inaugural season.

You see, it isn't just the Tim Tebow pick, its a ton of different things that now can be "fixed" with Tim Tebow... or Tim Tebow can be that final straw which is what most think when it comes to Tim Tebow.

Personally, I think Tim Tebow becomes Josh McDaniels' Steve Young making McD look like Walsh or Seifert. I'm not too worried about it, but you have to be pretty numb to facts to not see why McD is tied to Tim Tebow which happened to be the 25th pick.

I agree with all of this, but all of these reasons are what McDaniels will be tied to. Much more than just the 25th pick in the draft. Saying he'll be judged solely on that pick is overly-simplistic, and I think that's what Tsi's point was.

tsiguy96
06-03-2010, 07:53 AM
First let me say that I love the Tebow pick and I think that he will do great things, so even if his future is tied to the 25th pick, I'm not too worried about it.

So, for argument's sake tsi, name me one other head coach that has:

1) Traded off a "Franchise QB" under the age of 26.
2) Traded off a "Franchise WR" under the age of 26.
3) Started a season 6-0 and not made the playoffs.
4) Finished a season 2-8 after a 6-0 start.
5) Caused more of a ruckus in his inaugural season.

You see, it isn't just the Tim Tebow pick, its a ton of different things that now can be "fixed" with Tim Tebow... or Tim Tebow can be that final straw which is what most think when it comes to Tim Tebow.

Personally, I think Tim Tebow becomes Josh McDaniels' Steve Young making McD look like Walsh or Seifert. I'm not too worried about it, but you have to be pretty numb to facts to not see why McD is tied to Tim Tebow which happened to be the 25th pick.

i think cutler showed what kind of "franchise" QB he is...

the fact taht he started the season 6-0 is not a bad thing, the fact that parts of the team fell apart is. i think hes showed enough promise to earn 2 more years as HC atleast.

bowtown
06-03-2010, 07:54 AM
Well I'd like to see Cutler start producing before I concede we gave anything away.

http://insanecats.com/images/ohsnap.png

jhns
06-03-2010, 07:58 AM
You guys are right. 4550 yards and 27 TDs isn't producing. that is what a crap QB does. It is exactly why I was dissapointed with getting half of that production this past season. We went from not producing to even worse than not producing.

Edit: had to fix the TD total

bfoflcommish
06-03-2010, 08:03 AM
You guys are right. 4550 yards and 25 TDs isn't producing. that is what a crap QB does. It is exactly why I was dissapointed with getting half of that production this past season. We went from not producing to even worse than not producing.

do Int's not count???? how about in 4th quarter when trying to make comebacks?

TheReverend
06-03-2010, 08:04 AM
First let me say that I love the Tebow pick and I think that he will do great things, so even if his future is tied to the 25th pick, I'm not too worried about it.

So, for argument's sake tsi, name me one other head coach that has:

1) Traded off a "Franchise QB" under the age of 26.
2) Traded off a "Franchise WR" under the age of 26.
3) Started a season 6-0 and not made the playoffs.
4) Finished a season 2-8 after a 6-0 start.
5) Caused more of a ruckus in his inaugural season.

You see, it isn't just the Tim Tebow pick, its a ton of different things that now can be "fixed" with Tim Tebow... or Tim Tebow can be that final straw which is what most think when it comes to Tim Tebow.

Personally, I think Tim Tebow becomes Josh McDaniels' Steve Young making McD look like Walsh or Seifert. I'm not too worried about it, but you have to be pretty numb to facts to not see why McD is tied to Tim Tebow which happened to be the 25th pick.

I agree with all of this, but all of these reasons are what McDaniels will be tied to. Much more than just the 25th pick in the draft. Saying he'll be judged solely on that pick is overly-simplistic, and I think that's what Tsi's point was.

Both of these, but you give too much credit to Tsi, TODMG

Tebow will deliver though.

jhns
06-03-2010, 08:08 AM
do Int's not count???? how about in 4th quarter when trying to make comebacks?

I can count those if you want. I mean, who can forget when we asked Orton to carry the load for a few games at the end and he wet the bed? What was it? 3 picks and 2 for TDs against KC?

TonyR
06-03-2010, 08:13 AM
You guys are right. 4550 yards and 27 TDs isn't producing.

How about wins? How about improving on the win total Orton put up in Chi the previous season? How'd he do on that benchmark? Until he proves otherwise, Jay Cutler is a LOSER. That's what he's been since his freshman year of college, a loser. The only way to rid himself of the label, fair or unfair, is to stop making excuses and win. That or go out drinking with Greg Olsen wearing bad shirts, either way.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-03-2010, 08:15 AM
Thisi s a retarded argument. mcDaniels isn't tied to the 25th pick. He's tied to winning and losing. If the broncos go 14-2 next year and Tebow is absolute ****, no one will care.

bfoflcommish
06-03-2010, 08:15 AM
I can count those if you want. I mean, who can forget when we asked Orton to carry the load for a few games at the end and he wet the bed? What was it? 3 picks and 2 for TDs against KC?

yeah 1 game vs a season of fail for cutler in that regard

SonOfLe-loLang
06-03-2010, 08:16 AM
and Jhns's argument would be a hell of a lot more solid if Cutler wasn't complete **** last year

jhns
06-03-2010, 08:16 AM
How about wins? How about improving on the win total Orton put up in Chi the previous season? How'd he do on that benchmark? Until he proves otherwise, Jay Cutler is a LOSER. That's what he's been since his freshman year of college, a loser. The only way to rid himself of the label, fair or unfair, is to stop making excuses and win. That or go out drinking with Greg Olsen wearing bad shirts, either way.

I completely agree. I just don't really care what he does in some other situation. I like this team.

Dagmar
06-03-2010, 08:19 AM
I can count those if you want. I mean, who can forget when we asked Orton to carry the load for a few games at the end and he wet the bed? What was it? 3 picks and 2 for TDs against KC?

This should make it easy jhns, here are the stats for QBs last year.

http://i50.tinypic.com/24vtzeh.png

jhns
06-03-2010, 08:19 AM
and Jhns's argument would be a hell of a lot more solid if Cutler wasn't complete **** last year

Why does it matter what he does in some other situation? I guess we will see about that other situation. It was Cutlers 3rd year starting. He has a long ways to go before his career is over.

jhns
06-03-2010, 08:21 AM
This should make it easy jhns, here are the stats for QBs last year.

http://i50.tinypic.com/24vtzeh.png

Haven't we been over this? I can't see this kind of thing on my 1.5 inch screen. To add to that, why would I care what Cutler does for a different team as that is probably your point, just like the last 5 posters to respond.

randomtask
06-03-2010, 08:22 AM
whos future was tied to the 25th pick in the draft. kthanx

Joe Gibbs' second term was tied to the 25th pick in 2005. (Jason Campbell)

Still, it's pretty arbitrary to compare this to only other cases where it's the 25th pick. A better way to compare would be with coaches who's fate was tied to a middle first round-ish pick. If you allow for picks with up to 10 spots difference, you get 8 other coaches in the past decade alone.


Raheem Morris with the 17th pick in 2009. (Josh Freeman)
Jim Harbaugh with the 18th pick in 2008. (Joe Flacco)
Romeo Crennel with the 22nd pick in 2007. (Brady Quinn)
Mike Murlakey's with the 22nd pick in 2004. (J.P. Losman)
Brian Billick (somewhat) with the 19th pick in 2003. (Kyle Boller)
Steve Spurrier with the 32nd pick in 2002. (Patrick Ramsey)
Marty Schottenheimer (until 2004) with the 33rd pick in 2001. (Drew Brees)

This really isn't that much different than any coaching regime who picks a QB in the first round. They're generally given a pass the first season with the QB, And then if the QB succeeds (a la Flacco), they'll be praised and probably have a lot more job security. However, if they fail (a la Losman) they will face a huge amount of heat and probably won't have their job for long. It's not that complicated or rare, so stop acting like McDaniels is being unfairly criticized. Every other damn coach in the league would face intense scrutiny when they draft a new first-round quarterback, especially if the pick was widely viewed (this means by most, not everyone) as a second or third round value.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-03-2010, 08:22 AM
Why does it matter what he does in some other situation? I guess we will see about that other situation. It was Cutlers 3rd year starting. He has a long ways to go before his career is over.

Of course it matters. i'm not claiming he'll be **** forever, but you're bitching and moaning about trading a guy who led the league in picks last year. If he continues on this path of horrible play, then it was a good move getting rid of him. If he improves, then it wasnt.

Dont you ever get tired of hammering your same stupid point in your asinine manner

Dagmar
06-03-2010, 08:23 AM
Haven't we been over this? I can't see this kind of thing on my 1.5 inch screen. To add to that, why would I care what Cutler does for a different team as that is probably your point, just like the last 5 posters to respond.

Very convenient for a troll that he can't see QB stats.

Your argument is we gave Cutler away. We got the QB at 14 back in return as well as much more. So how did we "give him away".

And NFL.com has mobile view, as does CBS.

Tombstone RJ
06-03-2010, 08:28 AM
I live a wonderful life.

As Dirty Harry once said, you are a legend in your own mind...

jhns
06-03-2010, 08:30 AM
Of course it matters. i'm not claiming he'll be **** forever, but you're b****ing and moaning about trading a guy who led the league in picks last year. If he continues on this path of horrible play, then it was a good move getting rid of him. If he improves, then it wasnt.

Dont you ever get tired of hammering your same stupid point in your asinine manner

I'm not bitching about trading him. I was explaining why McDaniels fate would be tied to whatever QB he starts. Others are the ones that want to turn it into a Cutler argument.

No, I don't get tired of arguing it or I wouldn't argue it.

jhns
06-03-2010, 08:42 AM
Very convenient for a troll that he can't see QB stats.

Your argument is we gave Cutler away. We got the QB at 14 back in return as well as much more. So how did we "give him away".

And NFL.com has mobile view, as does CBS.

So post it in mobile view then. I'm not real sure what that has to do with me not being able to see what you post.

I don't really care that we got an average QB in return. The offense regressed a lot without Cutler. That is what I'm concerned with. I don't care about Chicago and I don't think it is impressive that we got a QB who didn't perform nearly as well even though he has had more years in the league.

bronclvr
06-03-2010, 09:03 AM
Doesn't this crap ever stop? Cutler hasn't won anything in the NFL-while I was also enamored with Cutler (while he was here), I obviously was blind-he didn't take us to a Playoff Game. He didn't have a winning record. He threw a ton of interceptions (something he continues to do at Chicago)-really, why did we think he was the second coming? Compare him to Joe Flacco or Aaron Rogers and he comes up pretty lame-he is not a proven winner.

I think we were so thirsty for wins that we jumped at anyone who we thought was the saviour in Denver, and he still hasn't proven that in Chicago. Orton will probably be another Jake or Bubby, and while I like him he is not the answer. The jury is still out on Quinn, but I think we may have a chance with either Quinn or Tebow-the future looks a lot brighter than the road we were on with Cutler-was he truly a "fanchise" Quarterback? That remains to be seen, and the hype still continues-when he produces then I'll be impressed, and until then I'm still looking for the "chosen one"-

SonOfLe-loLang
06-03-2010, 09:05 AM
I'm not b****ing about trading him. I was explaining why McDaniels fate would be tied to whatever QB he starts. Others are the ones that want to turn it into a Cutler argument.

No, I don't get tired of arguing it or I wouldn't argue it.

McDaniels fate is tied to wins and losses. If the broncos win, and their QB play sucks, it wont matter. Go ask Brian Billick.

jhns
06-03-2010, 09:27 AM
McDaniels fate is tied to wins and losses. If the broncos win, and their QB play sucks, it wont matter. Go ask Brian Billick.


I agree completely. I just think QB play is going to be a big part of his wins and losses. That or he needs to figure out how to make the defense stay good for a full season.

Flex Gunmetal
06-03-2010, 09:35 AM
lol @ everyone taking jhns seriously.

and lol @ jhns replying every time someone reminds him he is on iggy.

jhns
06-03-2010, 09:42 AM
and lol @ jhns replying every time someone reminds him he is on iggy.

It is the best time to laugh at them. Too bad moose never really puts me on ignore.

Flex Gunmetal
06-03-2010, 09:49 AM
How have you been here for 4 years and only developed your dog**** rep since shanahan was fired? Were you at one time a decent poster? Not going to look thru your old posts.

jhns
06-03-2010, 10:09 AM
How have you been here for 4 years and only developed your dog**** rep since shanahan was fired? Were you at one time a decent poster? Not going to look thru you're old posts.

I don't know about being a good poster but it would be when we gave away Cutler that I got this way. I was OK with Shanahan and the no defense thing going away. I didn't want him gone but I didn't have a problem with it.

Flex Gunmetal
06-03-2010, 10:11 AM
I don't know about being a good poster but it would be when we gave away Cutler that I got this way. I was OK with Shanahan and the no defense thing going away. I didn't want him gone but I didn't have a problem with it.

Stop saying denver gave cutler away. I'm not going to argue with you, but it's a stupid statement.
Continue your regularly scheduled suckfest.

colonelbeef
06-03-2010, 10:13 AM
Name one other coach that gave away 2 25 year old pro bowlers in their first two seasons. You do that and I will name you the coach that has his future tied to a 25th pick QB.

bingo.

This situation has not occurred in a vacuum. The circumstances have led to this point.

Better yet-

Name me one person outside of homers on a Broncos message board who think that McDaniel's future isn't tied to Tim Tebow.

bowtown
06-03-2010, 10:14 AM
bingo.

This situation has not occurred in a vacuum. The circumstances have led to this point.

Better yet-

Name me one person outside of homers on a Broncos message board who think that McDaniel's future isn't tied to Tim Tebow.

I have a friend named Jeff who doesn't think so.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-03-2010, 10:14 AM
bingo.

This situation has not occurred in a vacuum. The circumstances have led to this point.

Better yet-

Name me one person outside of homers on a Broncos message board who think that McDaniel's future isn't tied to Tim Tebow.

If Tebow is absolute **** and we win 13 games, is it really going to matter that Tebow is absolute ****?

No.

colonelbeef
06-03-2010, 10:19 AM
I have a friend named Jeff who doesn't think so.

Jeff is a nice guy, but I disagree with him.

colonelbeef
06-03-2010, 10:21 AM
If Tebow is absolute **** and we win 13 games, is it really going to matter that Tebow is absolute ****?

No.

That is pretty much what it would take for the Tebow pick to be forgotten.

I'd say that good QB play from Quinn that leads to the playoffs, or Tebow turning into a valid starting QB are the only two avenues out of the McDaniels/timmy t marriage.

Jason in LA
06-03-2010, 10:28 AM
Seems like the only point of starting this thread was to pick a fight. Mission accomplished.

Zoobie
06-03-2010, 10:34 AM
That is pretty much what it would take for the Tebow pick to be forgotten.

I'd say that good QB play from Quinn that leads to the playoffs, or Tebow turning into a valid starting QB are the only two avenues out of the McDaniels/timmy t marriage.

No, all it would take is us winning games, it doesn't matter if we have Jeff George at quarterback. People forget about draft picks when you win. If we would've succeeded in Shanny's later days, no one would've cared about Jarvis. The Jets forgot about Gholston, why? They are winning. The Packers don't care about Justin Harrell, why? They are winning. It doesn't matter what position it is at all, McDaniels is no more tied to Tebow than he is Orton, Quinn, Brandstater, Moreno, Ayers, Smith, or any other Bronco for that matter(whether he drafted them or not). Winning cures everything. Will people rag on his drafting prowess if his picks fail? Sure, but it doesn't mean that if he is getting us to the postseason people will really give a ****.

HILife
06-03-2010, 10:39 AM
I live a wonderful life.

Making other people miserable.

jhns
06-03-2010, 10:42 AM
Making other people miserable.

If my posts on a message board make you miserable, you need to get your life together.

Paladin
06-03-2010, 10:44 AM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

Because he is even less coherent than either Mock or Boob.

jhns
06-03-2010, 10:50 AM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

Because he is even less coherent than either Mock or Boob.

Why is it that these old guys that can't handle others opinion post this all the time? I mean, it seems you are trying to say a poster isn't worth your time as you constantly give them attention and time. It isn't like this stops people from responding to me or changes the way I post. So is it just that you are attention whores that are mad people are paying attention to guys you don't agree with or what?

I think it is pretty funny when people try talking **** while hiding behind ignore. Can you be anymore of a woman?

Paladin
06-03-2010, 10:53 AM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

Because it is right......

Paladin
06-03-2010, 10:54 AM
lol @ everyone taking jhns seriously.

and lol @ jhns replying every time someone reminds him he is on iggy.

Checking your theory now.......

oubronco
06-03-2010, 10:55 AM
do Int's not count???? how about in 4th quarter when trying to make comebacks?

To be fair Elway didn't fair too well early in his career

oubronco
06-03-2010, 10:55 AM
Thisi s a retarded argument. mcDaniels isn't tied to the 25th pick. He's tied to winning and losing. If the broncos go 14-2 next year and Tebow is absolute ****, no one will care.

Exactly

broncosteven
06-03-2010, 11:01 AM
Seems like the only point of starting this thread was to pick a fight. Mission accomplished.

Baja is gone, TSI decided to pick up the slack

jhns
06-03-2010, 11:02 AM
Checking your theory now.......

It isn't a theory homegirl.

Rabb
06-03-2010, 11:05 AM
Seems like the only point of starting this thread was to pick a fight. Mission accomplished.

some would even call it trolling, but since jhns had to jump right in with his craptastic views on everything...the majority doesn't see it as trolling

jhns makes this thread and it's a different story

jussayin

Irish Stout
06-03-2010, 12:19 PM
It isn't a theory homegirl.

Clearly not a theory. It is now natural law.

GoBroncos DownUnder
06-03-2010, 03:59 PM
1) Traded off a "Franchise QB" under the age of 26.
2) Traded off a "Franchise WR" under the age of 26.
This always confuses me:
WHAT has Cutler done that confirms him as a "franchise QB"??
He once (controversially) made the Pro Bowl as a #4 QB, and probably shouldn't have made it, Pill Rivers could have easily been in that spot.

I agree that Marshall is/could be a Franchise WR, but his off-field issues resulted in 31 teams PASSING on the chance to sign him, in exchange for a 1st round draft pick.


SO we traded away a talented (interception plagued) QB, and a talented WR with off-field issues ... moving on!:thumbsup:

uplink
06-03-2010, 04:39 PM
I think the main thing is what Mr. Bowlen thinks of what McD has done. I suspect he likes the players McD is bringing in and agrees with McD parting ways with divas like Cutler and Marshall. I think McD is making a good impression on Bowlen by bringing in team oriented players, and I am sure Bowlen is going to love Tebow.

Kaylore
06-03-2010, 04:46 PM
If McDaniels goes deep into the playoffs for a few years, then it won't matter if Tebow pans out or not. Like every coach, McDaniels is tied to winning football games, not how his QB pans out. For those that disagree, if Tebow turns out to be awesome in three years, but we still haven't made the playoffs do you think McDaniels is still going to be here? The answer is no.

listopencil
06-03-2010, 04:46 PM
Hmmm, jhns vs. tsiguy96.The immovable malcontent meets the unstoppable homer. This could cause a server crash.

yerner
06-03-2010, 04:51 PM
Hmmm, jhns vs. tsiguy96.The immovable malcontent meets the unstoppable homer. This could cause a server crash.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Killericon
06-03-2010, 04:54 PM
whos future was tied to the 25th pick in the draft. kthanx

This is almost comical.

http://nflbook.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/reeves.jpg

http://www.geocities.jp/jbeeez2001/maddox.jpg

Kaylore
06-03-2010, 04:57 PM
Man he had tiny hands.

Killericon
06-03-2010, 05:00 PM
How did this thread make it to the 4th page without one mention of Maddox?

FireFly
06-03-2010, 05:28 PM
Well I'd like to see Cutler start producing before I concede we gave anything away.

oh snap!

:spit:

jhns
06-03-2010, 06:11 PM
He once (controversially) made the Pro Bowl as a #4 QB, and probably shouldn't have made it, Pill Rivers could have easily been in that spot.


Wrong. He was #2 and even if you took a player out it would have been Rivers over Favre. Close though.

gunns
06-03-2010, 07:16 PM
This is almost comical.

http://nflbook.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/reeves.jpg

http://www.geocities.jp/jbeeez2001/maddox.jpg

I was just headed here. But the question is stupid anyway. You can find a pick in almost any round, any year that a coaches career is tied to, for multiple reasons. I am wondering about Jacksonville's pick. Most of the time that draft pick is just a part of the equation. As far as McD is concerned, I think the #22 was far more stupid than the #25 and I hated the 25. I doubt either costs him his "career".

elsid13
06-03-2010, 07:33 PM
How did this thread make it to the 4th page without one mention of Maddox?

Because half the posters complaining about each other were born less then 15 years ago.

HAT
06-03-2010, 08:50 PM
Wrong. He was #2

On what basis?

(Note: This is a trick question....I hope you say 'votes')

jhns
06-03-2010, 08:52 PM
On what basis?

(Note: This is a trick question....I hope you say 'votes')

It is a dumb question. He was #2 in the pro bowl. Base it on whatever you want. I just bring the facts. He actually played 3 because he gave up his spot to a veteran that hadn't been there before. He probably did that because he is such a bad guy.

footstepsfrom#27
06-03-2010, 10:47 PM
Every NFL coache's future is ultimately to some degree, tied to the success of his QB. Where they were drafted is irrelevant.

DBroncos4life
06-04-2010, 12:19 AM
This thread was brought to you by the magic of the super fan. Just remember guys Mr 2009 is 10X the fan you will ever be.

Broncoman13
06-04-2010, 04:25 AM
This always confuses me:
WHAT has Cutler done that confirms him as a "franchise QB"??
He once (controversially) made the Pro Bowl as a #4 QB, and probably shouldn't have made it, Pill Rivers could have easily been in that spot.

I agree that Marshall is/could be a Franchise WR, but his off-field issues resulted in 31 teams PASSING on the chance to sign him, in exchange for a 1st round draft pick.


SO we traded away a talented (interception plagued) QB, and a talented WR with off-field issues ... moving on!:thumbsup:


I really don't know how to respond to those of you that don't believe Jay Cutler is a franchise QB... and then to say that BMarsh "could be". I'm not gonna respond to that. You're trolling.

tsiguy96
06-04-2010, 04:57 AM
I really don't know how to respond to those of you that don't believe Jay Cutler is a franchise QB... and then to say that BMarsh "could be". I'm not gonna respond to that. You're trolling.

easy, provide some real measure of proof that cutler really is a franchise QB instead of just constantly repeating "well he just is".

nothing supports that he is the QB taht any team would want long term, stats, wins, nothing. potential? arm strength? hes got those, so does jamarcus russell.

elsid13
06-04-2010, 05:11 AM
Every NFL coache's future is ultimately to some degree, tied to the success of his QB. Where they were drafted is irrelevant.

I disagree with that. The selection of QB in the first round does have impact, and it not irrelevant as you stated. When a team selects a QB in the first, they are strongly indicating that he is the leader of the future, and will be given multiply opportunities to prove himself. A guy select in later rounds or select at another positions, won't get all those opportunities and team is more willing to part ways if they don't work out.

While some want to argue it doesn't matter if Tebow is a bust or not, it will factor in how successful McDaniels is in Denver, because a NFL ready talent at the QB spot makes any coach look better then he is. McDaniels has tied his future in Denver with Tebow, but he has also tried to minimize his risk of failure with the acquisition of Quinn (another first round QB that sunk his previous coaching staff).

CEH
06-04-2010, 06:03 AM
easy, provide some real measure of proof that cutler really is a franchise QB instead of just constantly repeating "well he just is".

nothing supports that he is the QB taht any team would want long term, stats, wins, nothing. potential? arm strength? hes got those, so does jamarcus russell.

When a franchise gives up 2 #1 picks and a 5th and a giant contract and there were several others franchises willing to do the same I would categorize that as a franchise QB.

Picks and money are a pretty good indication what a francise thinks of your services. Ask Elvis

jhns
06-04-2010, 06:14 AM
nothing supports that he is the QB taht any team would want long term

Do you even try thinking before you post?

I would say the 2 firsts, a 3rd, and QB that we got from a team supports that a team wants him long term. The big contract that team gave him says they want him long term. I would say another team trading up to pick 11 to draft him showed that team wanted him long term until they changed to some dumbass management. I would say the bidding war that drove that price up shows many teams wanted to invest in him long term. I would say the pro bowl shows that fans, coaches, and players think he had a very good season.

Sorry he hurt your feelings but you may want to check your feelings at the door. They are making you dumb.

bowtown
06-04-2010, 06:24 AM
When a franchise gives up 2 #1 picks and a 5th and a giant contract and there were several others franchises willing to do the same I would categorize that as a franchise QB.


Or maybe just a huge mistake. There have been many times that teams have traded away much more than what the player they got in return was ultimately worth. You can ask Al Davis about that.

CEH
06-04-2010, 07:24 AM
Or maybe just a huge mistake. There have been many times that teams have traded away much more than what the player they got in return was ultimately worth. You can ask Al Davis about that.

True the return on investment may not come to fruition but if you look at the NFL as a business each franchise as two valuable forms of currency cash on hand and draft picks. Some owners have more money than others. Jones/Synder have more cash on hand than Bowlen who has to support extended family members and the Denver Broncos.

When a team sinks draft picks and cash into the marquee position in the sport then I would categorize that player as the face of their franchise today

If you have to be your team's starting QB for 5-6 years or win a Super Bowl then Brady/the Mannings/Rivers/Palmer fall into that category .

Cutler/Rodgers/Stafford/Flacco/Sanchez do not fall into that category but I think of all of them as current franchise QBs for their teams. The undisputed #1 QB going into the season. No need to address the QB postion come draft day. The guy who barring injury will be out there for all 16 games and into the future.

JMO

Dagmar
06-04-2010, 08:04 AM
This thread was brought to you by the magic of the super fan. Just remember guys Mr 2009 is 10X the fan you will ever be.

I think tsiguy and most other people can accept if you are on an NFL message board on a Friday in June you are a pretty super fan!

bowtown
06-04-2010, 08:05 AM
True the return on investment may not come to fruition but if you look at the NFL as a business each franchise as two valuable forms of currency cash on hand and draft picks. Some owners have more money than others. Jones/Synder have more cash on hand than Bowlen who has to support extended family members and the Denver Broncos.

When a team sinks draft picks and cash into the marquee position in the sport then I would categorize that player as the face of their franchise today

If you have to be your team's starting QB for 5-6 years or win a Super Bowl then Brady/the Mannings/Rivers/Palmer fall into that category .

Cutler/Rodgers/Stafford/Flacco/Sanchez do not fall into that category but I think of all of them as current franchise QBs for their teams. The undisputed #1 QB going into the season. No need to address the QB postion come draft day. The guy who barring injury will be out there for all 16 games and into the future.

JMO

Fair enough. You are right that more goes into the term Franchise QB than play on the field. Should be interesting to see if Jay can pick his game up enough to remain the face of the Bears. Based on last year, he's shedding the title at an alarming rate.

Irish Stout
06-04-2010, 08:19 AM
I think tsiguy and most other people can accept if you are on an NFL message board on a Friday in June you are a pretty super fan!

I'm pretty.

gunns
06-04-2010, 08:37 AM
I think tsiguy and most other people can accept if you are on an NFL message board on a Friday in June you are a pretty super fan!

Or have a great personality. :laugh:

Flex Gunmetal
06-04-2010, 08:41 AM
I really don't know how to respond to those of you that don't believe Jay Cutler is a franchise QB... and then to say that BMarsh "could be". I'm not gonna respond to that. You're trolling.

Jay Cutler may be called a franchise QB based on his draft position and his value last year, but on the field he hasn't proven he is.
Dude is a career loser.