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TonyR
06-02-2010, 10:25 AM
Once the preseason starts, we'll all get to see for ourselves how Tim Tebow looks in a Denver Broncos uniform, and we won't have to speculate based on the tape of Tebow's games at Florida.

But until then, it's always interesting to see how people who have spent a lot of time studying that tape view Tebow. And Greg Cosell, the creator and executive producer of the NFL Matchup show that we hope has a future on television, came away unimpressed from his own film study of Tebow.

"On film, there is very little in Tebow's game that projects well at this point to the NFL," Cosell tells Ross Tucker in an interview at SI.com. "I could never draft a quarterback in the first round who does not show on tape the skill set and physical attributes that are demanded in the NFL."

Cosell says that as a passer, Tebow simply isn't on an NFL level.

"Number one, he has questionable and limited arm strength with a slow and ponderous delivery," Cosell said. "Number two, in college he did not throw with timing or anticipation because the offense that he was in did not require it. In the NFL, there are certain throws in certain situations that necessitate that the ball is delivered before his receiver makes his break. He wasn't asked to do that at Florida."

In college Tebow was a threat with his feet as well as his arm, but Cosell says the way Tebow uses his feet doesn't translate well to the NFL, either.

"Thirdly, pocket movement in the NFL is far more important than running," Cosell said. "Pocket movement is the ability to move within the confines of an area about the size of a boxing ring while at the same time maintaining your downfield focus so you can deliver the football. Tebow did not exhibit that trait in college, probably because he was a runner. Nobody is a great NFL quarterback because of the way that they run."

So Cosell doesn't think Tebow has an NFL arm or NFL feet. We take it Broncos coach Josh McDaniels disagrees. And we look forward to finding out who's right when Tebow gets on the field.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/02/greg-cosell-very-little-of-tim-tebows-game-projects-to-the-nfl/

Here's a link to the article referenced, which also includes some interesting comments on McNabb/Shanahan and Campbell/Raiders:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ross_tucker/06/02/greg.cosell/

Florida_Bronco
06-02-2010, 10:42 AM
[I]"Number one, he has questionable and limited arm strength

[/credibility]

no-pseudo-fan
06-02-2010, 10:47 AM
I read this earlier. I don't know what to think about it.

The only thing I think is this: What makes one college QB become a great NFL QB and another a failure?

Florida had play Tebow play a certain way.

Everything is projection. Open in College is different than open in the NFL. Every QB has to adjust to the speed of the game. Bradford is going to struggle for a few years before he might put it together. Stafford struggled last year, and will struggle this year too. Those were #1 Picks, there are no absolutes in drafting QBs.

If scouts knew everything, Tom Brady would have been a #1 pick and Leaf would be a UDFA.

Seriously, Brett Favre was taken after Dan Macquire and Todd Marranivich.

Tombstone RJ
06-02-2010, 10:54 AM
We shall see... Flip side is that Quinn had good mechanics and projected well to the NFL and it's not exactly going great for him. Really, we all just have to wait and see. There's a distinct possibility Tebow will never be a starting caliber NFL QB.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-02-2010, 10:55 AM
I'd take criticism like this seriously if drafting a QB in the first round wasn't roulette. QB's are found all over the draft and players drop to later rounds because of "limitations"

TheReverend
06-02-2010, 10:56 AM
http://i31.tinypic.com/24n2mpd.jpg

Dagmar
06-02-2010, 10:57 AM
http://i31.tinypic.com/24n2mpd.jpg

You positive about anything with the Broncos right now?

tsiguy96
06-02-2010, 11:00 AM
even if he is a bust, mcdaniels obtained most of those picks by trading back. crazy that people think a coach and the #25th pick in the draft are tied toeghter that much. theres been so many 1st round busts by good drafting teams, you dont hear that **** from them. but throw tebow in the mix, its all different..

Bob's your Information Minister
06-02-2010, 11:02 AM
QB's are found all over the draft "

Yes, but most of the Super Bowl winning quarterbacks came from the first round.

v2micca
06-02-2010, 11:05 AM
I'm largely taking a wait and see approach with Tebow. If he does well, good for us. If he doesn't.....well, we won't be the first or last team to draft a first round QB bust.

The fact is, if any other team had drafted Tebow in the first round, I get the impression that a lot of posters currently defending him would instead be silently nodding their heads in agreement with these kind of assessments.

Tebow's a Bronco, which means I'm pulling for him to come through for us. But I don't have blinders on to the fact that the team has taken a very high risk/reward approach with the pick.

Houshyamama
06-02-2010, 11:08 AM
I'm largely taking a wait and see approach with Tebow. If he does well, good for us. If he doesn't.....well, we won't be the first or last team to draft a first round QB bust.

The fact is, if any other team had drafted Tebow in the first round, I get the impression that a lot of posters currently defending him would instead be silently nodding their heads in agreement with these kind of assessments.

Tebow's a Bronco, which means I'm pulling for him to come through for us. But I don't have blinders on to the fact that the team has taken a very high risk/reward approach with the pick.

Don't look now, but someone posted something intelligent in this thread.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-02-2010, 11:13 AM
Yes, but most of the Super Bowl winning quarterbacks came from the first round.

Great, well in that case, our chances increase with Tebow drafted in the first round.

And in the last ten years, Brees (2nd), Tom Brady (6th), Kurt Warner (undrafted), brad johnson (9th round). Scouting quarterbacks is the most inexact science. Too many variables.

R8R H8R
06-02-2010, 11:13 AM
These "opinions" would mean more if we got a little perspective on thier past evaluations. Particularly, I would like to know what he thought of Vince Young & Jabba La Russell.

And just because he watches tape doesn't mean anything to me. I guarantee McD watched a hell of alot more tape than this guy did, and I think McD ought to know his own system a little better than some film hack.

I remember reading Mel Kiper's glowing evaluation of Russell, even comparing him in some ways to Elway. Meanwhile, he doesn't think much of Tebow either. So what, he usually wrong anyway.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-02-2010, 11:15 AM
Great, well in that case, our chances increase with Tebow drafted in the first round.

And in the last ten years, Brees (2nd), Tom Brady (6th), Kurt Warner (undrafted), brad johnson (9th round). Scouting quarterbacks is the most inexact science. Too many variables.

Why limit the sample size? You're just configuring the data to suit your argument.

no-pseudo-fan
06-02-2010, 11:18 AM
Comp/Att Pct. Yds TDs Int
128/207 .618 1,991 16 6
118/215 .549 1,776 19 9
145/265 .547 2,488 20 6
157/251 .625 2,134 22 5
Totals 548/938 .584 8,389 77 26


Carries Yards Avg. TDs
123 261 2.1 2
97 458 4.7 3
110 404 3.7 6
135 438 3.2 8
Totals 465 1,561 3.4 19

TonyR
06-02-2010, 11:18 AM
The fact is, if any other team had drafted Tebow in the first round, I get the impression that a lot of posters currently defending him would instead be silently nodding their heads in agreement with these kind of assessments.

Good post, we completely agree. I'm rooting for him and the team, but if I were a betting man I'd place a lot of money on Tebow never being a competent, starting caliber NFL QB. I really, really hope I'm wrong.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-02-2010, 11:18 AM
Why limit the sample size? You're just configuring the data to suit your argument.

I'm limiting the sample size to the current era because it appears scouting has become more of an "art" in the past 20 years. Point being, and this is hardly my opinion, quarterbacks are hard to scout. Too many variables go into it.

My argument is hardly in depth. Its fairly ****ing obvious that good QBs are found all over the draft.

bowtown
06-02-2010, 11:21 AM
Why limit the sample size? You're just configuring the data to suit your argument.

By my count, of the 44 Superbowls, 23 were won by 1st round QBs. That seems pretty 50/50 to me.

Retire #30!!!
06-02-2010, 11:22 AM
This first round BS still amazes me... It's like if we would have drafted Tebow 8 spots lower it would be no big deal. The funny thing is say both Tebow and Bradford flop, Denver will still get more heat... (even though we'll be paying tebow about 40-50 MILLION less then Bradford)

SonOfLe-loLang
06-02-2010, 11:24 AM
By my count, of the 44 Superbowls, 23 were won by 1st round QBs. That seems pretty 50/50 to me.

And some of them have multiple wins...i dont know how that skews things

no-pseudo-fan
06-02-2010, 11:24 AM
Comp/Att Pct. Yds TDs Int
128/207 .618 1,991 16 6
118/215 .549 1,776 19 9
145/265 .547 2,488 20 6
157/251 .625 2,134 22 5
Totals 548/938 .584 8,389 77 26


Carries Yards Avg. TDs
123 261 2.1 2
97 458 4.7 3
110 404 3.7 6
135 438 3.2 8
Totals 465 1,561 3.4 19



Donovan McNabb

SonOfLe-loLang
06-02-2010, 11:24 AM
This first round BS still amazes me... It's like if we would have drafted Tebow 8 spots lower it would be no big deal. The funny thing is say both Tebow and Bradford flop, Denver will still get more heat... (even though we'll be paying tebow about 40-50 MILLION less then Bradford)

This is very true. People cling to strange arguments though

Bob's your Information Minister
06-02-2010, 11:27 AM
Chiefsplanet has already been through this.

<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" images="" smilies="" shocked.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="07Shocked" smilieid="18" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype>
“Why not just draft a QB in the middle rounds?”<o>
</o><o></o>
ChiefsCountry has compiled an impressive list of QBs who won the Super Bowl and where they were drafted.
<o></o>
So you want Thiggy as our quarterback.

How about these facts:
57% of the Super Bowls have been won by first round quarterbacks.
(Out of those quarterbacks only 3 were not top 10 picks)
40% of the Super Bowls won by top 5 picks.
21% have been won by 1st round quarterbacks that wasnt their original team (Dawson, Plunkett (2), Williams, Young, Dilfer)
16% of the Super Bowls were won by Montana and Brady
4% were Roger Staubuach's wins who would have went in the first if he wasnt going to Vietnam
14% were won by a 9th or lower (counting Warner who was Undrafted) and 4 of those wins were by Bart Starr & Roger Staubauch.
4% were won by second round quarterbacks
4% 3rd and 6th rounds picks that were not <st1><st1:state w:st="on">Montana</st1:state></st1> or Brady
0% of the Super Bowls were won by a 7th round pick<o></o><o></o>

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5278394&postcount=129<o>
</o><o></o>
Additionally, this was done before this year’s Super Bowl, in which another 1<sup>st</sup> round quarterback, Ben Roethlisberger, won.
<o></o><o></o>
Moreover, Scott Wright has an extensive breakdown of the profound failure rate of 2<sup>nd</sup> and 3<sup>rd</sup> round quarterbacks over the last 15 years on his site, NFLDraftCountdown.
<o></o><o></o>

Taco John
06-02-2010, 11:28 AM
People shouldn't be suprised by this. The general feeling on this very forum before the draft was that Josh wouldn't be stupid enough to draft Tebow early. Of course, that tune is changed now that he's ours. But that tune isn't going to change across the rest of the league until he actually plays and proves all the scouts wrong.

I want to see the guy succeed, but there's a gnawing at the back of my brain that the guy is going to be nothing more than an expensive distraction. But I'll give Josh the benefit of a doubt. It's his system and he's getting his players. He's got at least two more seasons to prove he knows what he's doing.

But I'm definitely of the mind that if Tebow fails, then Josh failed. Josh can't take a huge gamble like this, have it fail in a flame of massive distraction, and retain his credibility. The bottom line is, we need to be in the playoffs and winning. If Tebow can't help this team do that, then Josh isn't getting it done.

Given how much Jesus loves Tebow, I'm not too worried about it at this point.

bowtown
06-02-2010, 11:32 AM
And some of them have multiple wins...i dont know how that skews things


Right I count 17 different QBs not taken in the 1st round to have won the SB, versus 14 who were.

TonyR
06-02-2010, 11:36 AM
I want to see the guy succeed, but there's a gnawing at the back of my brain that the guy is going to be nothing more than an expensive distraction. But I'll give Josh the benefit of a doubt. It's his system and he's getting his players.

I have a bad feeling that McD fell in love with Tim Tebow the person (attitude, personality, character, drive, smarts, etc.) instead of Tim Tebow the football player. Cosell points out the perahps fatal truth that Tebow hasn't demonstrated the skills and ability to be an NFL QB. And as we know many that have demonstrated the physical skills have failed, so Tebow has a lot to prove. I hope McD's faith is validated, but like I said I have strong doubts.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-02-2010, 11:40 AM
I have a bad feeling that McD fell in love with Tim Tebow the person (attitude, personality, character, drive, smarts, etc.) instead of Tim Tebow the football player. Cosell points out the perahps fatal truth that Tebow hasn't demonstrated the skills and ability to be an NFL QB. And as we know many that have demonstrated the physical skills have failed, so Tebow has a lot to prove. I hope McD's faith is validated, but like I said I have strong doubts.

All this would make more sense if we had proof that Tebow has struggled in a pro offense (and the senior bowl is hardly a measure of anything). Until that happens, "projecting" is just guessing.

epicSocialism4tw
06-02-2010, 11:43 AM
People shouldn't be suprised by this. The general feeling on this very forum before the draft was that Josh wouldn't be stupid enough to draft Tebow early. Of course, that tune is changed now that he's ours. But that tune isn't going to change across the rest of the league until he actually plays and proves all the scouts wrong.

I want to see the guy succeed, but there's a gnawing at the back of my brain that the guy is going to be nothing more than an expensive distraction. But I'll give Josh the benefit of a doubt. It's his system and he's getting his players. He's got at least two more seasons to prove he knows what he's doing.

But I'm definitely of the mind that if Tebow fails, then Josh failed. Josh can't take a huge gamble like this, have it fail in a flame of massive distraction, and retain his credibility. The bottom line is, we need to be in the playoffs and winning. If Tebow can't help this team do that, then Josh isn't getting it done.

Given how much Jesus loves Tebow, I'm not too worried about it at this point.

McD's rep is tied to Tebow. He made this happen when he used his questionable trading practices to dance backward in the first round to acquire Thomas and Tebow. This after trading Cutler and Marshall.

McD dumped two talented players and brought rookies in to fill their position. Its risky. McD might have to learn the hard way about risks in the NFL.

no-pseudo-fan
06-02-2010, 11:46 AM
I have a bad feeling that McD fell in love with Tim Tebow the person (attitude, personality, character, drive, smarts, etc.) instead of Tim Tebow the football player. Cosell points out the perahps fatal truth that Tebow hasn't demonstrated the skills and ability to be an NFL QB. And as we know many that have demonstrated the physical skills have failed, so Tebow has a lot to prove. I hope McD's faith is validated, but like I said I have strong doubts.

I don't see it.

Tebow played the way Urban Meyer asked him to play. He won. Just because two things are true doesn't make the third true.

The more firemen fighting a fire, the bigger the fire is going to be.
Therefore firemen cause fire.

With a decrease in the number of pirates, there has been an increase in global warming over the same period.
Therefore, global warming is caused by a lack of pirates

Sleeping with one's shoes on is strongly correlated with waking up with a headache.
Therefore, sleeping with one's shoes on causes headache.

There is something that makes QB's successful in the NFL, but no one knows what it is. It is not Arm Strength, the College Offense you played in, throwing motion, footwork or any of that stuff.

Seriously, if Drafting QB's was an exact science we wouldn't have so many 1st round busts or late round gems.

Taco John
06-02-2010, 11:49 AM
I have a bad feeling that McD fell in love with Tim Tebow the person (attitude, personality, character, drive, smarts, etc.) instead of Tim Tebow the football player. Cosell points out the perahps fatal truth that Tebow hasn't demonstrated the skills and ability to be an NFL QB. And as we know many that have demonstrated the physical skills have failed, so Tebow has a lot to prove. I hope McD's faith is validated, but like I said I have strong doubts.


This is pretty well where I'm at. I was among the people who gave Josh the benefit of a doubt that he wouldn't do something goofy like draft Tebow in the first round. I figure he'd have been an acceptable third round flier.

I am very nervous about the idea of a QB who is still trying to get his throwing motion down. And even if he changes his throwing motion, his delivery will still be slow and forced. I'm hopeful, but indeed, have strong doubts.

That said, I'm all for the journey. It will be fun to root this kid on and see the evaluation of his progress from week to week. It will be like the pre-shoulder injury Griese days, only with a lot more hype and attention surrounding the player. Quite frankly, developing a young quarterback is message board nirvana. Whether he succeeds or fails, it's going to be a fun discussion, IMO.

bowtown
06-02-2010, 11:49 AM
I have a bad feeling that McD fell in love with Tim Tebow the person (attitude, personality, character, drive, smarts, etc.) instead of Tim Tebow the football player. Cosell points out the perahps fatal truth that Tebow hasn't demonstrated the skills and ability to be an NFL QB. And as we know many that have demonstrated the physical skills have failed, so Tebow has a lot to prove. I hope McD's faith is validated, but like I said I have strong doubts.

I agree with pretty much all of this. However, I wonder what the break even is with Tebow from a business perspective. After 2 years in the league, even if he falls on his face, will have payed for himself?

Jason in LA
06-02-2010, 11:50 AM
I'm largely taking a wait and see approach with Tebow. If he does well, good for us. If he doesn't.....well, we won't be the first or last team to draft a first round QB bust.

The fact is, if any other team had drafted Tebow in the first round, I get the impression that a lot of posters currently defending him would instead be silently nodding their heads in agreement with these kind of assessments.

Tebow's a Bronco, which means I'm pulling for him to come through for us. But I don't have blinders on to the fact that the team has taken a very high risk/reward approach with the pick.

I totally agree. I think it was a big time reach, and they could have egg on their faces over it. But if Tebow lives up to the hype, which I'm rooting for him to do, it's going to be awesome.

And I agree with you point that if another team drafted him the opinions on him on this board would be different.

Lomax
06-02-2010, 11:54 AM
Right I count 17 different QBs not taken in the 1st round to have won the SB, versus 14 who were.

14 first rounders, and 17 spread across the other 6 rounds?

That doesn't support the argument that it's a crap shoot. A crap shoot would be if there were 3-5 first rounders, 3-5 second rounders, and so on all the way through round 7.

Success is pretty heavily skewed towards first round picks.

TonyR
06-02-2010, 11:57 AM
I don't see it.

I hope you're right. It would be a lot of fun if Tebow proves the doubters wrong. A couple of major concerns I have are that, 1) Tebow's numbers and production really didn't improve from his sophomore year to his senior year, indicating that perhaps he just is what he is and that he was largely a product of the system (albeit a talented one), and 2) that despite his huge success most NFL teams shied away from him which probably indicates that most personnel people/talent evaluators agree with Cosell. Some combination of arm strength, delivery/throwing motion, timing, anticipation, and pocket movement, among other factors, didn't get an NFL QB passing grade.

no-pseudo-fan
06-02-2010, 11:57 AM
14 first rounders, and 17 spread across the other 6 rounds?

That doesn't support the argument that it's a crap shoot. A crap shoot would be if there were 3-5 first rounders, 3-5 second rounders, and so on all the way through round 7.

Success is pretty heavily skewed towards first round picks.

So what you are saying is....that the best players are usually taken first?

hmmm.....

SonOfLe-loLang
06-02-2010, 12:00 PM
I hope you're right. It would be a lot of fun if Tebow proves the doubters wrong. A couple of major concerns I have are that, 1) Tebow's numbers and production really didn't improve from his sophomore year to his senior year, indicating that perhaps he just is what he is and that he was largely a product of the system (albeit a talented one), and 2) that despite his huge success that most NFL teams shied away from him which probably indicates that most personnel people/talent evaluators agree with Cosell. Some combinatation of arm strength, delivery/throwing motion, timing, anticipation, and pocket movement, among other factors, didn't get an NFL QB passing grade.

You're concerned because his numbers didn't improve? His numbers started at astronomical and ended there. Thats kind of a hard argument to make

jhns
06-02-2010, 12:05 PM
Can't be much worse than what we have already. If he is, McDaniels won't be around long anyways. That means it will work out no matter what.

TonyR
06-02-2010, 12:10 PM
You're concerned because his numbers didn't improve? His numbers started at astronomical and ended there. Thats kind of a hard argument to make

His overall stats were great, I'm not going to argue that. But his pure passing stats weren't really all that gaudy and they didn't improve over three years. You normally/often see a progression. He threw for less than 3,000 yards and didn't have a single 300 yard passing game his senior year, and only a handful his whole college career. He was a great college QB but not necessarily a great passer.

tsiguy96
06-02-2010, 12:13 PM
heres a topic for discussion: find a single other head coach whos future was supposedly tied to the future of the #25 pick in the draft.

scorpio
06-02-2010, 12:15 PM
You positive about anything with the Broncos right now?

Pay attention, the Rev is gay for Tebow.

(no homo)

TheReverend
06-02-2010, 12:20 PM
You positive about anything with the Broncos right now?

You're a massive retard, you know that?

TheReverend
06-02-2010, 12:21 PM
Pay attention, the Rev is gay for Tebow.

(homo)

Fixed brah

Pseudofool
06-02-2010, 12:21 PM
But I'm definitely of the mind that if Tebow fails, then Josh failed. Josh can't take a huge gamble like this, have it fail in a flame of massive distraction, and retain his credibility. The bottom line is, we need to be in the playoffs and winning. If Tebow can't help this team do that, then Josh isn't getting it done.If the Broncos end up making deep into the playoffs with Orton or Quinn, Josh's fate will no longer be cinched to Tebow. The implication here is that you don't think the Broncos are going to be a winning team unless Tebow turns out.

Kaylore
06-02-2010, 12:24 PM
I'll be honest. If the rest of the draft didn't finish so good I'd still be pissed about us taking Tebow in the first round. I think it's fun "Chuck Norrising" him and I really like him as a person. I liked watching him at Florida. However I still think for the kind of project that he is the first round was too high, especially in a deep draft. I cringe every time someone takes an "intangibles" QB.

The one thing that has me a little less worried is his exceptional, borderline obsession, commitment to football. He will work his tail off and he is athletically gifted. Guys less athletic with that work ethic often make a team because they take nothing for granted. So it is more likely he will at least be serviceable given the way he works. I just don't know if he's going to live up the hype. I hope he does.

Pseudofool
06-02-2010, 12:25 PM
This guy is simply going off what he has scene on tape. Josh has a *lot* more information to go on. I still think back to something Josh said at the firstday press conference: some aspects of a QB are coachable, some aspects are not. The insinuation Josh made was that Tebows flaws could be fixed with coaching and repetition.

Pseudofool
06-02-2010, 12:26 PM
I just don't know if he's going to live up the hype. I hope he does.Isn't the hype suggesting that he'll fail?

Dagmar
06-02-2010, 12:30 PM
You're a massive retard, you know that?

If I was actually a retard you'd get banned.

DomCasual
06-02-2010, 12:31 PM
Tim Tebow really, really sucks.

Tim Tebow is really, really good.

The summer is going to be really, really long.

Dagmar
06-02-2010, 12:32 PM
Pay attention, the Rev is gay for Tebow.

(no homo)

Sorry, I'm used to his everything sucks, Orton sucks etc going on right now. I had no idea.

Oh, and...

http://i50.tinypic.com/2cib32g.png

Taco John
06-02-2010, 12:32 PM
heres a topic for discussion: find a single other head coach whos future was supposedly tied to the future of the #25 pick in the draft.


There isn't another one who drafted a projected 3rd rounder that high.

ICON
06-02-2010, 12:32 PM
Yes, but most of the Super Bowl winning quarterbacks came from the first round.

What round was Tim Tebow drafted in?

Matt Cassel was drafted by the New England Patriots in the seventh round of the 2005 NFL Draft. So most of the Super Bowl winning quarterbacks came from the first round guess the kc Queefs are f*@)ed then..............

Taco John
06-02-2010, 12:35 PM
If the Broncos end up making deep into the playoffs with Orton or Quinn, Josh's fate will no longer be cinched to Tebow.


I agree with this.

gyldenlove
06-02-2010, 12:36 PM
By my count, of the 44 Superbowls, 23 were won by 1st round QBs. That seems pretty 50/50 to me.

**** it, I will make a histogram to own all histograms.

tsiguy96
06-02-2010, 12:37 PM
There isn't another one who drafted a projected 3rd rounder that high.

forgetting the fact that tebow wasnt going to make out of the first round, this makes a LOT of sense.

TheReverend
06-02-2010, 12:41 PM
Sorry, I'm used to his everything sucks, Orton sucks etc going on right now. I had no idea.

Oh, and...

[IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/2cib32g.png[IMG]

What did I say sucks? Name it? Post examples?

Because I'm really high on almost every part and phase of this team right now.

You read what you want to read and take it how you want to take it, but you're a ****ing moron who wants to feel woe is me people are attacking my superfandom of my team.

You're pathetic and I don't like you, please submit your posts that reply to any of mine to scorpio for approval first.

scorpio
06-02-2010, 12:42 PM
What did I say sucks? Name it? Post examples?

Because I'm really high on almost every part and phase of this team right now.

You read what you want to read and take it how you want to take it, but you're a ****ing moron who wants to feel woe is me people are attacking my superfandom of my team.

You're pathetic and I don't like you, please submit your posts that reply to any of mine to scorpio for approval first.

I'm not your ****ing secretary

http://imgur.com/qhFaA.gifhttp://imgur.com/qhFaA.gifhttp://imgur.com/qhFaA.gifhttp://imgur.com/qhFaA.gifhttp://imgur.com/qhFaA.gifhttp://imgur.com/qhFaA.gif

Dagmar
06-02-2010, 12:43 PM
What did I say sucks? Name it? Post examples?

Because I'm really high on almost every part and phase of this team right now.

You read what you want to read and take it how you want to take it, but you're a ****ing moron who wants to feel woe is me people are attacking my superfandom of my team.

You're pathetic and I don't like you, please submit your posts that reply to any of mine to scorpio for approval first.

:spit:

http://www.ihasafunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/298994067_5bdd356e05_o.jpg

Taco John
06-02-2010, 12:45 PM
forgetting the fact that tebow wasnt going to make out of the first round, this makes a LOT of sense.


Who knows what you're even muttering about Mock II.

Dagmar
06-02-2010, 12:47 PM
Who knows what you're even muttering about Mock II.

I think his argument is you say he was projected as a 3rd rounder, yet after day one rumors were swirling that more than a couple of teams were planning on taking him at the end of round 1.

tsiguy96
06-02-2010, 12:47 PM
Who knows what you're even muttering about Mock II.

you say hes a third rounder, but he was not going to leave the first round. so you muttering BS about him being a third rounder doesnt make sense, does it?

thats like saying "yea we coulda got demaryius thomas in the third, stupid idiot bronco coach", when the fact is its not true.

Taco John
06-02-2010, 12:50 PM
you say hes a third rounder, but he was not going to leave the first round.

Cool story bro.

Taco John
06-02-2010, 12:51 PM
Er... Cool "facts" bro.

Bronco Yoda
06-02-2010, 12:52 PM
But I'm definitely of the mind that if Tebow fails, then Josh failed. Josh can't take a huge gamble like this, have it fail in a flame of massive distraction, and retain his credibility. The bottom line is, we need to be in the playoffs and winning. If Tebow can't help this team do that, then Josh isn't getting it done.

It's not like Tebow was a top 5 pick. If he doesn't make it, not the end of the world. I can think of a lot of huge gambles Josh has made so far in his short stay. Tebow is small potatos in the grand scheme of things IMO.

tsiguy96
06-02-2010, 12:55 PM
Er... Cool "facts" bro.

show me your "facts" that he was going to make it out of the first round, especially with the bills in the mix to take him, not to mention all the other teams we dont know about who liked him.

underrated29
06-02-2010, 12:56 PM
Who cares what this guy thinks.

Tebow throws like a weirdo, and that weirdo shattered ALL college records!


The delivery means ****!

What matter is if his wr catches the ball, and if tim can run the ball and move the chains. So far I have not seen one single shred of evidence saying he can not do it.

I personally do not care what he looks like throwing. He could wear a dress and throw while his other hand is on his nuts as long as he gets the ball out and on target....AND HE ALWAYS HAS!!!!


This guy can have the quinns, the ryan leafs, and all those other perfect from guys. I want a winner someone who will get it done weather its pretty or not. In hockey no one says -"oh that goal does not count becuase it was ugly."

They do not say Stokelys winning td against the bengals did not count because it did not follow the norm standards. It worked. It worked and it counted. You b**ch about his form and where his arm is. I am worried about what happens after the ball leaves his hand.

gyldenlove
06-02-2010, 12:56 PM
I was hoping I wouldn't have to resort to a histogram.


26688


Clearly QBs drafted in the 1st round win a lot more super bowls than all others. For technical reasons I listed Kurt Warner as a 20th round pick even though he was never drafted.

As an aside, more superbowls have been won with a QB drafted number 1 overall than with QBs drafted in any other round (Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, John Elway, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Namath, Jim Plunkett).

Dagmar
06-02-2010, 12:57 PM
Er... Cool "facts" bro.

Your kinda biased against some of your members I think. ;)

gyldenlove
06-02-2010, 12:58 PM
We need a collective panty unbunching up in this bitch.

Dagmar
06-02-2010, 01:04 PM
We need a collective panty unbunching up in this b****.

You get the tongs I'll get the butter!

Falconer
06-02-2010, 01:05 PM
Cool story bro.

I would have to agree with tsiguy in this instance Taco. Tebow might and I say might have slipped to the second round, but there was no way he would have lasted until the third. If you also take into account the manuvering that the Broncos were doing to get both Thomas and Tebow in the first round, you could say that Tebow actually cost us the 2nd rounder from the Dolphins. So in actuality he did only cost us a 2nd. See it is all much more clear now. :wiggle:

elsid13
06-02-2010, 01:19 PM
heres a topic for discussion: find a single other head coach whos future was supposedly tied to the future of the #25 pick in the draft.

Do the names Brady Quinn, Aaron Rodgers, and JP Losman mean anything to you. Any time a team takes a QB in the 1st round then they are tying the future of their franchise to that QB. The QB position is unlike any other in football and were you select him means something and his ability to perform is a key for the long term successes of the Head Coach.

toad
06-02-2010, 01:30 PM
Tebow's mechanics are no "worse" (in terms of traditional throwing mechanics) than Philip Rivers, and Tebow has all the intangibles that Rivers has (smarts, desire, work ethic, uncanny ability to simply win).

Keep in mind going into his senior year, Rivers was "projected" to be a mid-round pick...then he rockets up and goes #4.

In a lot of ways, Tebow reminds of Rivers....seems like a decent gamble at #25 if you ask me.

NFLBRONCO
06-02-2010, 01:31 PM
At least we didn't trade 11 #1 to get him that's a huge plus. I have my doubts with him at pro level too but, why not take a flier and see. If he is a bust he is a bust but, I know he will study and work hard and be a great teammate so if he fails its because of skill level not effort so that gives him a shot to succeed imo.

Taco John
06-02-2010, 01:37 PM
Frankly, I don't care whether he would have been drafted in the first or fifth. I wouldn't have taken him earlier than the third. Ashley Lelie projected as a first rounder, and I wouldn't have taken him before the third (but personally, I don't like to take any WR in round one, period). That's the way I look at Tebow. He's a huge gamble in the first, even if Buffalo was going to be stupid enough to take him in the first (they weren't, it is an invented fantasy that they were (http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?confirm=true&id=09000d5d817bc745&template=with-video-with-comments)).

Before the draft I said, "Josh isn't going to do something stupid and take Tebow with a first round pick." It's not suddenly a great move just because he actually did that. It's still a huge freaking gamble. I'm hoping it's one that shows Josh to be a counter-narrative genius. But I can't say that I'm terribly optimistic that will be the case. If there's one thing that I've learned about quarterbacks in all my years of watching football is that a slow delivery is hard to overcome at this level. But if anyone has the moxy to overcome it, Tebow is probably that guy.

I'd love to see the guy turn into a phenom warrior. He's about as easy to root for as a guy could possibly be.

jhns
06-02-2010, 01:43 PM
His career in Denver isn't tied to Tebow because of where Tebow was selected. His career in Denver is tied to Tebow because this team will not be good any time soon without better QB play. You guys make all kinds of excuses for last years poor QB play. Well it isn't like we made the QBs job easier since then. We are weaker at receiver and have rookies and injuries all along the o-line. This offense dropped off a lot last season and we made the QBs job even harder. The only chance McDaniels has is Tebow being able to lead this team to a productive offense or he needs to come with a great defense that actually holds up for an entire season.

NFLBRONCO
06-02-2010, 01:45 PM
Frankly, I don't care whether he would have been drafted in the first or fifth. I wouldn't have taken him earlier than the third. Ashley Lelie projected as a first rounder, and I wouldn't have taken him before the third (but personally, I don't like to take any WR in round one, period). That's the way I look at Tebow. He's a huge gamble in the first, even if Buffalo was going to be stupid enough to take him in the first (they weren't, it is an invented fantasy that they were (http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?confirm=true&id=09000d5d817bc745&template=with-video-with-comments)).

Before the draft I said, "Josh isn't going to do something stupid and take Tebow with a first round pick." It's not suddenly a great move just because he actually did that. It's still a huge freaking gamble. I'm hoping it's one that shows Josh to be a counter-narrative genius. But I can't say that I'm terribly optimistic that will be the case. If there's one thing that I've learned about quarterbacks in all my years of watching football is that a slow delivery is hard to overcome at this level. But if anyone has the moxy to overcome it, Tebow is probably that guy.

I'd love to see the guy turn into a phenom warrior. He's about as easy to root for as a guy could possibly be.

Yeah this is how I feel. I wish Tebows delivery was broadband and not dial up as well.

boltaneer
06-02-2010, 01:49 PM
It's not like Tebow was a top 5 pick. If he doesn't make it, not the end of the world. I can think of a lot of huge gambles Josh has made so far in his short stay. Tebow is small potatos in the grand scheme of things IMO.

I don't necessarily agree with this. There are a number of factors here.

Will McDaniels stubbornly hitch his wagon to Tebow? How much rope will McDaniels get if Tebow busts? And will the McDaniels experiment be over if Tebow busts? IMO, it will be.

Time invested is the biggest factor here. My guess is that Tebow will probably get three years to develop (since he is a long term project anyway).

Worst case scenario for you guys is three years wasted on Tebow. McDaniels gets the boot, a new coach comes in and you'll have to invest another 2-3 years on a new quarterback. You're talking 5-6 years down the road now.

First round picks get a LOT of time because of what's invested in them. That's the dangerous thing about 1st rounders. A guy like Brandstater is 'small potatoes' because it's much easier to cut your losses with a low round pick like that.

kappys
06-02-2010, 02:49 PM
His career in Denver isn't tied to Tebow because of where Tebow was selected. His career in Denver is tied to Tebow because this team will not be good any time soon without better QB play. You guys make all kinds of excuses for last years poor QB play. Well it isn't like we made the QBs job easier since then. We are weaker at receiver and have rookies and injuries all along the o-line. This offense dropped off a lot last season and we made the QBs job even harder. The only chance McDaniels has is Tebow being able to lead this team to a productive offense or he needs to come with a great defense that actually holds up for an entire season.

Exactly. Tebow could fall flat on his face but if Josh puts together a team with a dominant defense and solid running game that gets us at least past the wild card round in the playoffs who can complain?(except the O-mane of course)

pink_feet
06-02-2010, 02:58 PM
Tebow's mechanics are no "worse" (in terms of traditional throwing mechanics) than Philip Rivers, and Tebow has all the intangibles that Rivers has (smarts, desire, work ethic, uncanny ability to simply win).

Keep in mind going into his senior year, Rivers was "projected" to be a mid-round pick...then he rockets up and goes #4.

In a lot of ways, Tebow reminds of Rivers....seems like a decent gamble at #25 if you ask me.

I really dont see this at all.

If i remember, the knock on Rivers was the ball came out kinda side-arm like, a la Bernie Kosar. But, his release was always very quick and he was very accurate.

Rivers in college was a pure passing QB and never ran. Rivers was asked to do more (more reads, check downs etc.) where Tebow was not really asked to do that much because he was a threat to run the ball.

I agree that they both have passion, work ethic and desire to win but thats about it. They both were completely different QB's coming out of college. Tebow had a lot of hype. Rivers started to receive hype after the Senior Bowl game where he was the MVP.

Retire #30!!!
06-02-2010, 03:13 PM
**** it, I will make a histogram to own all histograms.

:rofl:

Smiling Assassin27
06-02-2010, 03:30 PM
While we're waiting for the fruition of the Tebow pick, watch this to put you in a happy place:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5080617

cmhargrove
06-02-2010, 04:05 PM
Haters gonna hate.

I'm looking forward to the Tebow era. Even if we don't win a superbowl, it should be pretty damn exciting.

elsid13
06-02-2010, 04:22 PM
Haters gonna hate.

I'm looking forward to the Tebow era. Even if we don't win a superbowl, it should be pretty damn exciting.

If we don't win superbowl, then how can it be fun?

tsiguy96
06-02-2010, 04:30 PM
If we don't win superbowl, then how can it be fun?

1 team wins, 31 dont. its fun to enjoy the season.

bowtown
06-02-2010, 04:38 PM
If we don't win superbowl, then how can it be fun?

You should maybe find a different hoby if winning the superbowl is the only fun you get out of watching football.

Dagmar
06-02-2010, 04:40 PM
If we don't win superbowl, then how can it be fun?

You've only had fun twice as a Broncos fan?

I've been a Broncos fan for less than 10 years and have had a lot of fun times!

NYBronco
06-02-2010, 04:59 PM
I like the Tebow pick and the potential he brings to this team.
Over the past year I have heard and read how Orton sucks because he trips over himself and gets sacked in the pocket because of his inability to feel the pressure. Tebow hasn't even played an NFL down yet and he's getting criticized because he tends to run to much.
I've also heard that Orton sucks because he can't throw the deep ball and Tebow gets criticized because his mechanics aren't up to NFL standards yet has shown a very strong arm and a rare ability to change his NFL substandard skillset.

The more negatives I hear about the young man (Tebow) the more I get behind him and want him to succeed.

elsid13
06-02-2010, 05:10 PM
You should maybe find a different hoby if winning the superbowl is the only fun you get out of watching football.

Any season that we don't win the superbowl, I am extremely disappointed. I don't know how any passionate fan can feel any differently.

WolfpackGuy
06-02-2010, 05:37 PM
I would've preferred those 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks given up to BAL to be used on players rather than a project.

Dedhed
06-02-2010, 05:45 PM
I have a bad feeling that McD fell in love with Tim Tebow the person (attitude, personality, character, drive, smarts, etc.) instead of Tim Tebow the football player. Cosell points out the perahps fatal truth that Tebow hasn't demonstrated the skills and ability to be an NFL QB. And as we know many that have demonstrated the physical skills have failed, so Tebow has a lot to prove. I hope McD's faith is validated, but like I said I have strong doubts.The question then becomes, "Why did they fail when they had demonstrated the requisite skills to play QB in the NFL"?

Did they fail because they lacked the qualities that Tebow has demonstrated perhaps more profoundly than any college player in history?

IMO, Tebow doesn't have anything less or more to prove than any college QB coming into the NFL.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-02-2010, 06:42 PM
:tebow:

DBroncos4life
06-02-2010, 09:48 PM
You're a massive retard, you know that?

He would be better off just sticking to posting pictures. :rofl:

toad
06-03-2010, 04:06 AM
I really dont see this at all.

If i remember, the knock on Rivers was the ball came out kinda side-arm like, a la Bernie Kosar. But, his release was always very quick and he was very accurate.

Rivers in college was a pure passing QB and never ran. Rivers was asked to do more (more reads, check downs etc.) where Tebow was not really asked to do that much because he was a threat to run the ball.

I agree that they both have passion, work ethic and desire to win but thats about it. They both were completely different QB's coming out of college. Tebow had a lot of hype. Rivers started to receive hype after the Senior Bowl game where he was the MVP.

I was more or less just noting that Rivers also had a lot of knocks on his mechanics (low throwing motion) and arm strength (not the strongest) BUT he has the "it" of being a winner (alongside the work ethic and football smarts)...not necessarily they have the same type of game. Obviously you could draw the "type" of game comparisons to Vick or Young...but Tebow was a more prolific passer in college than either.

I live in NC and am an NC State fan and watched Rivers pretty heavily for 4 years....then was crushed when he ended up in SD.

Big picture, I just think Tebow has a certain amount of "it" and his work ethic is high enough where it would hard for me to bet against him.

tsiguy96
06-03-2010, 05:19 AM
I would've preferred those 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks given up to BAL to be used on players rather than a project.

most of which were acquired by mcdaniels when he traded back...

bowtown
06-03-2010, 06:25 AM
Any season that we don't win the superbowl, I am extremely disappointed. I don't know how any passionate fan can feel any differently.

Agreed, but that is totally different than what you implied in your original post.

oubronco
06-03-2010, 06:28 AM
I don't necessarily agree with this. There are a number of factors here.

Will McDaniels stubbornly hitch his wagon to Tebow? How much rope will McDaniels get if Tebow busts? And will the McDaniels experiment be over if Tebow busts? IMO, it will be.

Time invested is the biggest factor here. My guess is that Tebow will probably get three years to develop (since he is a long term project anyway).

Worst case scenario for you guys is three years wasted on Tebow. McDaniels gets the boot, a new coach comes in and you'll have to invest another 2-3 years on a new quarterback. You're talking 5-6 years down the road now.

First round picks get a LOT of time because of what's invested in them. That's the dangerous thing about 1st rounders. A guy like Brandstater is 'small potatoes' because it's much easier to cut your losses with a low round pick like that.

Should've kept Cutler right

oubronco
06-03-2010, 06:31 AM
I would've preferred those 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks given up to BAL to be used on players rather than a project.

My thoughts exactly, we have too many holes that needed filled instead of another QB project

colonelbeef
06-03-2010, 06:36 AM
even if he is a bust, mcdaniels obtained most of those picks by trading back. crazy that people think a coach and the #25th pick in the draft are tied toeghter that much. theres been so many 1st round busts by good drafting teams, you dont hear that **** from them. but throw tebow in the mix, its all different..

Here we go, the excuses have already begun

wasted picks are wasted picks. Stop with the justifications, if he is a failure, there aren't any.

tsiguy96
06-03-2010, 06:40 AM
Here we go, the excuses have already begun

wasted picks are wasted picks. Stop with the justifications, if he is a failure, there aren't any.

quit acting like its the end of the world and this or any other team has NEVER had a bust pick in the NFL before.

oubronco
06-03-2010, 06:57 AM
quit acting like its the end of the world and this or any other team has NEVER had a bust pick in the NFL before.

How the hell Moss is still on the team is beyond comprehension

MaloCS
06-03-2010, 07:00 AM
All of this speculation and perceived evaluation is bull****. For what it's worth, the NFL has created a scenario where they pay ungodly amounts of money to players based upon expectations and not production. In order for them to justify their flawed business plan they come up with these bull**** list of variables that supposedly will determine if a player will be a success or failure. In most cases, these variables prove to be worthless.

When you ask a person to give a 22 year old kid 40 million dollars you have to be able to justify the expense. How can this be done when there is no guarantee this kid can make the mental transition to the NFL? Well, for all intents and purposes you create a **** load of worthless variables that these kids will be judged against but at the end of the day the only variable that matters is that kid's ability to make the transition from college to the pros.

There are plenty of players throughout the history of the NFL that couldn't make that transition. For whatever reason, these players just couldn't handle the mental difficulties the professional game brings with it. Look at JaMarcus Russell; the guy was a beast in college and was highly thought of in pre draft evaluations. Since he was drafted it has become apparent that even though he has the physical talents he just doesn't possess the mental talent that the NFL requires.

There is no way to determine how a player will adapt to the NFL game which, in my mind, is the determining factor if a player will be a success or a failure. We can sit here and judge a player's speed or their vertical leap or their hand size but at the end of the day it really all depends on how that player adapts to the speed and complexity of professional football.

Tebow has the talent and skill set to be an NFL quaterback. He wouldn't be there if he didn't. What will determine if Tebow becomes a success will be his ability to adapt his personal game to the rigors of the NFL. If he can do that he will be one of the best QBs to ever play the game.

Tebow's history as a football player shows us that he has the ability to succeed at every level he's played in thus far. His history shows us that he adapted his game from high school to college in a very successful manner. If he can do the same from college to the pros then he will be one of the best.

Everyone is rooting for Tebow to fail. Everyone wants to believe that his numbers and history are nothing more then smoke and mirrors. Everyone is scouring his past to come up with something they can point to that says he won't be a success. Regardless, in my opinion, I believe Tebow will rise to the occasion and make every one of his detractors eat crow.

Go Timbow!

tsiguy96
06-03-2010, 07:07 AM
How the hell Moss is still on the team is beyond comprehension

wasnt he inactive most of last year?

Dedhed
06-03-2010, 07:17 AM
I would've preferred those 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks given up to BAL to be used on players rather than a project.

Except for the fact that all of those picks were acquired by trading back with the mind to get Tebow.

fontaine
06-03-2010, 07:29 AM
. . . too long to quote . . .


I don't think his mechanics are going to be an issue. In a few months he's already changed his throwing action to cut out that loopy delivery from the hip and McDaniels elaborated on that recently. His release is now quicker and more accurate.

Like you, I also believe his success is going to depend on whether he can mentally transition to an NFL offense where he's going to have to beat teams with his arm instead of just taking off running whenever he wants to.

bowtown
06-03-2010, 07:41 AM
Here's a wild scenario just for fun, for those that feel that McD and Tebow are intrinsically tied:

Let's say Tim Tebow attempts to play QB for the first season and a half and is an utter failure. He just can't wrap his mind around it. In the meantime Brady Quinn-- or better yet, T$--improves to the point where he is clearly the better starter, but maybe not quite franchise level.

Now let's say the team begins to experiment with Tebow at TE and Up Back, and he takes to it pretty well. Really shows a lot of promise and is being used heavily in many gadget and goal line plays to keep offenses on their toes. Think Steve Sewell, but more power than finesse. And like Steve, he has decent success but never quite reaches the lofty 1st round hopes for him.

Does McDaniels still get fired? In other words, does Tebow have to become a prototypical franchise QB for McD to keep his job, or does he just not have to totally bust?

MaloCS
06-03-2010, 11:19 AM
In other words, does Tebow have to become a prototypical franchise QB...

There's nothing remotely prototypical about Tebow and I hope for the Broncos sake that he NEVER develops into a prototypical NFL quarterback. I want Tebow to become the best QB he can be based upon his unique talents and skill set. I want Tebow to change the way the NFL and the media look at quarterbacks. I want Tebow to redefine what a prototypical QB is.

What is a prototypical NFL quarterback? A statue like Manning and Brady that rely on their pristine throwing dynamics to be successful? Or is it a quarterback like Elway and Favre that sling the ball and rely on athleticism to beat the rush? I don't know but I can tell you that Elway/Favre are the exact opposite of Manning/Brady but both sets of QBs were/are highly successful with many super bowl victories.

In all reality, the only thing the two sets of QBs listed above have in common are a strong desire to win and a determined mind set to do what needs to be done. I guess one could say that this desire to succeed is what defines a prototypical QB and if this is the case then Tebow definitely is a prototypical QB. Nevertheless, a modern day prototypical QB is defined ONLY by his mechanics which doesn't do a very good job of projecting if that player will be successful.

Go Tebow!

tsiguy96
06-03-2010, 11:20 AM
rich gannon frickin destroyed cosell on siriuz blitz today.

underrated29
06-03-2010, 11:34 AM
rich gannon frickin destroyed cosell on siriuz blitz today.


Care to elaborate a little more please.

bronclvr
06-03-2010, 11:35 AM
rich gannon frickin destroyed cosell on siriuz blitz today.

OK, you got me-what did he say?

gyldenlove
06-03-2010, 11:35 AM
Here's a wild scenario just for fun, for those that feel that McD and Tebow are intrinsically tied:

Let's say Tim Tebow attempts to play QB for the first season and a half and is an utter failure. He just can't wrap his mind around it. In the meantime Brady Quinn-- or better yet, T$--improves to the point where he is clearly the better starter, but maybe not quite franchise level.

Now let's say the team begins to experiment with Tebow at TE and Up Back, and he takes to it pretty well. Really shows a lot of promise and is being used heavily in many gadget and goal line plays to keep offenses on their toes. Think Steve Sewell, but more power than finesse. And like Steve, he has decent success but never quite reaches the lofty 1st round hopes for him.

Does McDaniels still get fired? In other words, does Tebow have to become a prototypical franchise QB for McD to keep his job, or does he just not have to totally bust?

The Mcdaniels - Tebow link is utter bull****, if Mcdaniels wins games he will be the coach forever regardless who is plays at QB. Heck if we go to the playoffs consistently Tebow could be selling hot dogs on the east stand and Mcdaniels would be safe.

Mcdaniels only gets fired if the team doesn't win, as we saw with Shanahan the team can lose with a pro bowl QB and that can get a coach fired. Tebow could be all-pro, put up 4k passing, 1k rushing and 50 TDs but if the team doesn't win Mcdaniels is still going to be out of here.

tsiguy96
06-03-2010, 11:43 AM
OK, you got me-what did he say?

just killed cosell, said how cosell said in his report that tebow has almost nothing that translates to the NFL, whereas him and most NFL professionals completely disagree. said you cant teach competitiveness, leadership, desire to be great, work ethic, and every other thing that tim is and the characteristics that you see in truly great NFL players. said he spent a lot of time talking to jon gruden, who spent days with tim, and jon absolutely loves tebow and thinks he has a real chance to be great. also noted how tebows character and commitment to being great shows all teh time, starting all the way to the end of his senior season, he immediately began doing the things he needed to do to succeed in the NFL. pointed out that tebow did what he needed to do in college to be the best, to win national championships and run teams over in the process, and he shouldnt be faulted for that, now taht he is moving to the next level, what is to stop him from adjusting his game again to being great.

bronclvr
06-03-2010, 11:54 AM
just killed cosell, said how cosell said in his report that tebow has almost nothing that translates to the NFL, whereas him and most NFL professionals completely disagree. said you cant teach competitiveness, leadership, desire to be great, work ethic, and every other thing that tim is and the characteristics that you see in truly great NFL players. said he spent a lot of time talking to jon gruden, who spent days with tim, and jon absolutely loves tebow and thinks he has a real chance to be great. also noted how tebows character and commitment to being great shows all teh time, starting all the way to the end of his senior season, he immediately began doing the things he needed to do to succeed in the NFL. pointed out that tebow did what he needed to do in college to be the best, to win national championships and run teams over in the process, and he shouldnt be faulted for that, now taht he is moving to the next level, what is to stop him from adjusting his game again to being great.


Thanks for the recap-it's nice to hear Gannon speaking up for the Broncos, although it seems a little weird-

bowtown
06-03-2010, 12:13 PM
There's nothing remotely prototypical about Tebow and I hope for the Broncos sake that he NEVER develops into a prototypical NFL quarterback. I want Tebow to become the best QB he can be based upon his unique talents and skill set. I want Tebow to change the way the NFL and the media look at quarterbacks. I want Tebow to redefine what a prototypical QB is.

What is a prototypical NFL quarterback? A statue like Manning and Brady that rely on their pristine throwing dynamics to be successful? Or is it a quarterback like Elway and Favre that sling the ball and rely on athleticism to beat the rush? I don't know but I can tell you that Elway/Favre are the exact opposite of Manning/Brady but both sets of QBs were/are highly successful with many super bowl victories.

In all reality, the only thing the two sets of QBs listed above have in common are a strong desire to win and a determined mind set to do what needs to be done. I guess one could say that this desire to succeed is what defines a prototypical QB and if this is the case then Tebow definitely is a prototypical QB. Nevertheless, a modern day prototypical QB is defined ONLY by his mechanics which doesn't do a very good job of projecting if that player will be successful.

Go Tebow!

Thank God you didn't just center in on a single word and miss the entire point of my post... oh wait.

MaloCS
06-03-2010, 12:18 PM
Thank God you didn't just center in on a single word and miss the entire point of my post... oh wait.

I thank Him every day. Thank you very much.

You used a word in your post that I ran with -- prototypical. The theme of your post wasn't important, it was the word "prototypical". I wasn't responding to the essence of your post but rather, I used the word "prototypical" as the basis for my post. I included the snipet of your post with the word "prototypical" in it so others could understand where my post was coming from.

Chill out brah! Take your thumb out of your mouth and stop crying. :wiggle:

Go Tebow!

TonyR
06-03-2010, 12:31 PM
just killed cosell...

Glad to hear Gannon feels this way and spoke up about it.

Just curious, was he speaking directly to Cosell or just talking about what Cosell had said? If the former, how did Cosell react/respond?

snowspot66
06-03-2010, 12:55 PM
14 first rounders, and 17 spread across the other 6 rounds?

That doesn't support the argument that it's a crap shoot. A crap shoot would be if there were 3-5 first rounders, 3-5 second rounders, and so on all the way through round 7.

Success is pretty heavily skewed towards first round picks.

The crap shoot is in the bust % which is probably just shy of abysmal.

tsiguy96
06-03-2010, 01:22 PM
Glad to hear Gannon feels this way and spoke up about it.

Just curious, was he speaking directly to Cosell or just talking about what Cosell had said? If the former, how did Cosell react/respond?

just about him and what he said. it was sparked by a convo with him and adam schein and a caller asking about the afcw and who will come in 2nd, of course adam schein thinks denver is a 6-8 max win team. schein also said "i love tim tebow" but i swear on my life last offseason he said as a matter of fact "tim tebow will not play QB at the NFL level" and had him rated as a 3rd-4th round TE.

mhgaffney
06-03-2010, 07:01 PM
He's wrong about the arm strength.

I watched one vid where Tebow flipped his wrist and tossed the rock 50 yards.

Will he translate to the NFL?

I hope so.

footstepsfrom#27
06-03-2010, 08:04 PM
If Tebow's future success is tied merely to his ability to make the mental adjustment the NFL demands, we have nothing to worry about. Can anyone think of a college player in recent memory who has handled himself better, displayed more determination and leadershiop? I can't, which is why I wanted this guy a year ago. He's the rare kind of competitor that you can genuinely tell he loves what he's doing.