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View Full Version : Bey Bey out until training camp


BroncoSojia
05-29-2010, 08:23 AM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5700

Coach Josh McDaniels is now targeting training camp for first-round pick Demaryius Thomas' (foot) return.

Thomas caused a mini-stir earlier in the week when he followed up a Twitter post about going for x-rays with a one-word response: "Sad." He insists the two tweets were unrelated. A Broncos source replied, "I can assure you 100 percent that there was nothing 'sad' about his recent X-rays." The fact remains, however, that Thomas is behind schedule. He was originally expected to return for OTAs. It's time to reel in expectations for September.

Baba Booey
05-29-2010, 08:36 AM
Oh well. Rest up and get ready for camp Bay Bay.

bpc
05-29-2010, 08:37 AM
Scratch this kids rookie season and let him heal properly and work in practice. How many times have we seen a deal like this go bad?

tsiguy96
05-29-2010, 08:39 AM
Scratch this kids rookie season and let him heal properly and work in practice. How many times have we seen a deal like this go bad?

yea, go tell any NFL coach to scratch his first round pick's rookie season because his foot is behind schedule, see waht they say.

meangene
05-29-2010, 08:40 AM
I'm not "reeling in expectations" if he is ready to go by training camp and suffers no setbacks with the foot. Smart to err on the side of caution with his injury.

bowtown
05-29-2010, 08:41 AM
McDaniels has said from the very beginning that he doesn't expect to see Thomas or Decker until training camp. I don't know what makes anyone think he is behind schedule.

Broncoman13
05-29-2010, 08:49 AM
McDaniels has said from the very beginning that he doesn't expect to see Thomas or Decker until training camp. I don't know what makes anyone think he is behind schedule.

When he was drafted the foot injury was "90% heeled".

Here are some of the reports regarding his injury. Bay Bay was expected back by now, Decker was the one that wasn't expected back until training camp. Some of us still sting from Willie Middlebrooks pre-existing foot injury, Darrius Watts' numb hand, and Ashley Lelie's soft heart. Sorry.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=5700

Flex Gunmetal
05-29-2010, 09:35 AM
heeled



heeled


































heeled

broncosteven
05-29-2010, 09:40 AM
When he was drafted the foot injury was "90% heeled".

Here are some of the reports regarding his injury. Bay Bay was expected back by now, Decker was the one that wasn't expected back until training camp. Some of us still sting from Willie Middlebrooks pre-existing foot injury, Darrius Watts' numb hand, and Ashley Lelie's soft heart. Sorry.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=5700

Wasn't Paul Tovessi drafted with a known injury also?

TheReverend
05-29-2010, 10:04 AM
Scratch this kids rookie season and let him heal properly and work in practice. How many times have we seen a deal like this go bad?

yea, go tell any NFL coach to scratch his first round pick's rookie season because his foot is behind schedule, see waht they say.

No, bpc's right. Thomas isn't a polished receiver in the Royal mold that just needs to learn the offense and he's ready to go. Thomas doesn't have any real work running most of the route tree. If he heals up and can hit camp running then he can probably be used as a deep threat and hopefully develop some down the stretch of the season, but he'll have a lot of work to do now and little time to do it.

Paladin
05-29-2010, 10:21 AM
Spin all you want, but he has the opportunity to be a very good WR. I really don't care if it is this year or next. People should remember that McD drafts with a two year horizon in mind. If he contributes later in the season, that's fine.

RhymesayersDU
05-29-2010, 11:49 AM
But we upgraded the WR position big time this season! 16-0 in 2010!

Drek
05-29-2010, 01:00 PM
But we upgraded the WR position big time this season! 16-0 in 2010!

I personally think our passing game will be a text book example of additional by subtraction next year.

Not that Marshall wasn't an elite player who won us games, he absolutely was. But last year we lived and died on Marshall's performance in too many games, and we utilized every other receiver in the way that best suited Marshall, not the way that best suited each individual receiver.

Now we'll see players put in the right roles to their skill sets. Royal is one obvious benefactor of this. At the same time our QB will become comfortable with multiple options and if one player is slacking another can step up.

The real key there is that Orton or Quinn, whomever the starter may be, needs to be able to make use of multiple targets. That would require making smart reads (Orton's strength) so that they find the right guy to go to, as well as a good deep ball (Quinn's strength) in order to make all the options a legitimate threads to a defense.

We'll see if either one of them has it. I'm not 100% sold on this offense as of yet, but if one of the QB's steps up and our interior OL works out we could see some very dynamic scoring.

_Oro_
05-29-2010, 01:18 PM
I personally think our passing game will be a text book example of additional by subtraction next year.

Not that Marshall wasn't an elite player who won us games, he absolutely was. But last year we lived and died on Marshall's performance in too many games, and we utilized every other receiver in the way that best suited Marshall, not the way that best suited each individual receiver.

Now we'll see players put in the right roles to their skill sets. Royal is one obvious benefactor of this. At the same time our QB will become comfortable with multiple options and if one player is slacking another can step up.

The real key there is that Orton or Quinn, whomever the starter may be, needs to be able to make use of multiple targets. That would require making smart reads (Orton's strength) so that they find the right guy to go to, as well as a good deep ball (Quinn's strength) in order to make all the options a legitimate threads to a defense.

We'll see if either one of them has it. I'm not 100% sold on this offense as of yet, but if one of the QB's steps up and our interior OL works out we could see some very dynamic scoring.

Yup, maxed out his value then traded his a**.

DomCasual
05-29-2010, 01:21 PM
I bet Tebow could heal him using Mr. Miyagi's healing technique.

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SportinOne
05-29-2010, 01:31 PM
I personally think our passing game will be a text book example of additional by subtraction next year.

Not that Marshall wasn't an elite player who won us games, he absolutely was. But last year we lived and died on Marshall's performance in too many games, and we utilized every other receiver in the way that best suited Marshall, not the way that best suited each individual receiver.



Give me an example of how they did this.

HEAV
05-29-2010, 01:36 PM
Wasn't Paul Tovessi drafted with a known injury also?

Tovessi was flag with a bone on bone condition in his knee. A broken big toe that is slowly healing isn't near the issue of a knee with zero cartilage left.

Smilin Assassin
05-29-2010, 02:24 PM
Aside from rotoworld's spin on it, I haven't seen McDaniels put any real timetable on Thomas or Decker for that matter.

This is from Denverbroncos.com: (posted yesterday)

On Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker and Ryan Harris all recovering from foot injuries:
“At this point we’re going to err on the side of being real careful and not put them in a situation where (it’s) the last day of minicamp on June 13th and all of a sudden we have a foot injury. If there’s a guy who is borderline ready and not ready, we’re not going to push it. Really, we’ve told all the players August is the time we want you to be ready to go. If they are ready I think we’ll be excited to see them out there. They’re all taking a bunch of mental reps. They’re all in the film session and they’re all seeing the things were doing and getting all the information but hopefully everybody will be ready by August.”

-Gray Caldwell, DenverBroncos.com

Steve Prefontaine
05-29-2010, 03:27 PM
"sad"

cutthemdown
05-29-2010, 04:52 PM
IMO he won't be a big part of the team until next yr.

BroncoBuff
05-29-2010, 05:09 PM
Wasn't Paul Tovessi drafted with a known injury also?

I was hoping I was the only one thinking Toviessi thoughts.

Kaylore
05-29-2010, 05:20 PM
I wasn't expecting him to do a great deal his rookie year anyway. We're talking about a guy that can run three routes and playing in an offense that Casey Wiegman said was "the hardest of any system to learn." I hope he can contribute, but Josh is always looking at the big picture.

Rabb
05-29-2010, 06:35 PM
Scratch this kids rookie season and let him heal properly and work in practice. How many times have we seen a deal like this go bad?

I agree actually

hambone13
05-30-2010, 12:10 AM
yea, go tell any NFL coach to scratch his first round pick's rookie season because his foot is behind schedule, see waht they say.

It baffles me that you can't let a poster, that you generally don't agree with, make a logical statement and you have to respond with such nonsense. Let him heal, we're obviously rebuilding right now.

hambone13
05-30-2010, 12:14 AM
Spin all you want, but he has the opportunity to be a very good WR. I really don't care if it is this year or next. People should remember that McD drafts with a two year horizon in mind. If he contributes later in the season, that's fine.

Who doesn't draft with at least 2 year window? The point is, this was our first pick and it appears there's a strong possibility that it won't be a pick that affects the team positively, immediately. Most teams use their first pick for players that do.

hambone13
05-30-2010, 12:18 AM
But we upgraded the WR position big time this season! 16-0 in 2010!

Character over proven talent and character over proven health....interesting model. The thing about predictive modeling is it takes time to evaluate whether it makes a difference. Let's hope it's a good model.

hambone13
05-30-2010, 12:24 AM
I personally think our passing game will be a text book example of additional by subtraction next year.

Not that Marshall wasn't an elite player who won us games, he absolutely was. But last year we lived and died on Marshall's performance in too many games, and we utilized every other receiver in the way that best suited Marshall, not the way that best suited each individual receiver.

Now we'll see players put in the right roles to their skill sets. Royal is one obvious benefactor of this. At the same time our QB will become comfortable with multiple options and if one player is slacking another can step up.

The real key there is that Orton or Quinn, whomever the starter may be, needs to be able to make use of multiple targets. That would require making smart reads (Orton's strength) so that they find the right guy to go to, as well as a good deep ball (Quinn's strength) in order to make all the options a legitimate threads to a defense.

We'll see if either one of them has it. I'm not 100% sold on this offense as of yet, but if one of the QB's steps up and our interior OL works out we could see some very dynamic scoring.

This is an optimistic perspective with no real foundation. What evidence is there that "the players" weren't utilized for the strengths from the beginning? It seems contradictory to me to imply that McD approaches the game with a team approach but would focus the offense around Marshall's ability. Wouldn't McD put the players he has in their perspective roles based on their strengths from the beginning? I don't see any potential for addition until our draft picks, of which I like both of in theory of their potential, actually hit the practice field and can get some game time.

hambone13
05-30-2010, 12:26 AM
Give me an example of how they did this.

This....

hambone13
05-30-2010, 12:30 AM
Tovessi was flag with a bone on bone condition in his knee. A broken big toe that is slowly healing isn't near the issue of a knee with zero cartilage left.

Because feet and hands are highly complicated in the realm of healing predictions. Granted, no cartilage in the knee is a different phenomenon but players play effectively w/o it. It's a pain tolerance issue. Foot and toe issues directly affect balance and quickness because of their anatomic complexity. Knees can be braced and are simple. It's not to say you can't tape a foot but it's a foundation point that is much different than a knee.

FireFly
05-30-2010, 02:20 AM
training camp is early enough for him to contribute SOMEthing this year. It was never going to be HEAPS imo, I'm holding out hope for decker though?

Makes me sad when people report on Harris coming back but not Clady

:(

CEH
05-30-2010, 07:16 AM
So Denver has the luxury of drafting a WR in the first round with injury concerns and if he doesn't see the field in year one everyone is OK with this because McD has a two year plan or I don't expect much in the first year.
I'm not buying it. Don't pee down my leg and tell me it's raining. Decker maybe for not in Thomas the 1st.

If DT does not see the field because of the foot injury that's alot different than being heathly and still trying to understand the offense and not producing in his first year

To have a 6-3 225 WR similar in statue to the greats in the game sit on the sidelines in '10 doesn't make any sense to me and I don't think Josh would be comfortable saying it's OK because of the bigger picture

Training camp is the key and Bey Bey must be ready or this is another McD draft gamble head scratcher

misturanderson
05-30-2010, 07:35 AM
Because feet and hands are highly complicated in the realm of healing predictions. Granted, no cartilage in the knee is a different phenomenon but players play effectively w/o it. It's a pain tolerance issue. Foot and toe issues directly affect balance and quickness because of their anatomic complexity. Knees can be braced and are simple. It's not to say you can't tape a foot but it's a foundation point that is much different than a knee.

If it's a ligamentous or muscular injury then yes, but his wasn't. He broke the metatarsal of his little toe, it should just be a matter of letting the bone heal.

hambone13
05-30-2010, 07:43 AM
If it's a ligamentous or muscular injury then yes, but his wasn't. He broke the metatarsal of his little toe, it should just be a matter of letting the bone heal.

I see your point but all the time that the foot is not being used causes weakening of the muscles and ligaments in a complicated part of the anatomy. I'm not a doctor but I've broken bones including the metatarsal in my pinky toe. Healing the bone was just the first phase of the recovery. The physical therapy required to ensure the foot heals in a balanced way is atypical to most other bone fractures. The same goes for the hands but they're not weight bearing so it's easier to control the physical therapy to not re-injure the area.

Hamrob
05-30-2010, 07:53 AM
Who doesn't draft with at least 2 year window? The point is, this was our first pick and it appears there's a strong possibility that it won't be a pick that affects the team positively, immediately. Most teams use their first pick for players that do.So, who would you have taken instead of Thomas at #22 that would have positively affected this team?

I like the pick. Rookie WR's rarely do more than play situational roles anyway. Let the kid heal while he learns. I think he's the best wr talent in this years draft and when he's 100% and knows what he's doing...watch out!

This kid reportedly runs a 4.4 to go along with that size and atheletic ability. He's a freak...an Andre Johnson type freak.

tsiguy96
05-30-2010, 07:54 AM
So, who would you have taken instead of Thomas at #22 that would have positively affected this team?

I like the pick. Rookie WR's rarely do more than play situational roles anyway. Let the kid heal while he learns. I think he's the best wr talent in this years draft and when he's 100% and knows what he's doing...watch out!

This kid reportedly runs a 4.4 to go along with that size and atheletic ability. He's a freak...an Andre Johnson type freak.

4.3's

misturanderson
05-30-2010, 08:00 AM
This is an optimistic perspective with no real foundation. What evidence is there that "the players" weren't utilized for the strengths from the beginning?
I don't think he was saying that they weren't being used for their strengths, just that Royal and Gaffney have some similar strengths to Marshall that often got overrridden by Marshalls talent for running shorter routes and making plays after the catch.

Royal does have the ability to be a deep threat, moreso than any other player on the team last year, and was used as such. He could have potentially been better used as a slot guy, but that would have cut into a lot of what Marshall was doing and would have left a player without great vertical play ability in the role of deep threat. They were each used where they best fit, it just so happened that two of the players (Marshall and Gaffney) were really best suited for the same role and something had to give.

We didn't have receivers that really complimented each other well by being good at very different things. Marshall, Royal and Gaffney were all better at the shorter possession/slot type routes (especially with an injured Orton behind a sub par line since deep routes were rarely able to develop), Now we hopefully have a guy that excells as a deep threat to take over for Marshall which will open up Gaffney and Royal to do more of the short to intermediate stuff with Royal in the slot getting a lot more looks.
It seems contradictory to me to imply that McD approaches the game with a team approach but would focus the offense around Marshall's ability. Wouldn't McD put the players he has in their perspective roles based on their strengths from the beginning?
He didn't say that the coach wasn't focusing on using our players' strengths in their respective roles. He said that we over-utilized Marshall to some extent and that Marshall's talent, along with our other personnel, did things like forcing Royal into the role of stretching the field, instead of playing the slot, because that wasn't Marshall's strength. McD was making sure that his best receiver was in the best position to make plays, but this was often at the expense of other players with similar strengths. You can't have every receiver on the field run a short, possession route every play, but because that's what Marshall was best at he got to run that route most of the time.

Orton's sometimes overwhelming reliance on Marshall when he was in the game didn't help things.
I don't see any potential for addition until our draft picks, of which I like both of in theory of their potential, actually hit the practice field and can get some game time.
I'd rather look at the addition of a big, fast, deep threat to take over the role that Moss played in New England as a positive until proven otherwise, but if you want to take a wait-and-see approach that's yor prerogative.

hambone13
05-30-2010, 09:22 AM
I don't think he was saying that they weren't being used for their strengths, just that Royal and Gaffney have some similar strengths to Marshall that often got overrridden by Marshalls talent for running shorter routes and making plays after the catch.

Royal does have the ability to be a deep threat, moreso than any other player on the team last year, and was used as such. He could have potentially been better used as a slot guy, but that would have cut into a lot of what Marshall was doing and would have left a player without great vertical play ability in the role of deep threat. They were each used where they best fit, it just so happened that two of the players (Marshall and Gaffney) were really best suited for the same role and something had to give.

I didn't witness Royal as being utilized as a deep threat, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. I agree that he has that ability as his ability to come out of breaks and stretch the field with his speed after the DB is out of position is excellent. I think the problem there was a combination of the O-Line and Orton's lack of mobility/tendency to not take those kinds of risks.

We didn't have receivers that really complimented each other well by being good at very different things. Marshall, Royal and Gaffney were all better at the shorter possession/slot type routes (especially with an injured Orton behind a sub par line since deep routes were rarely able to develop), Now we hopefully have a guy that excells as a deep threat to take over for Marshall which will open up Gaffney and Royal to do more of the short to intermediate stuff with Royal in the slot getting a lot more looks.

I don't see how Marshall is not a deep threat. Even if he doesn't have the 40 speed that Bey Bey does, there's not many DB's in the league who will take the ball away from him. This is one of the challenges that Cutler had with the receivers in Chicago, he was use to Marshall, if nothing else being there to knock the ball down and avoid the interception. IMO, the lack of deep threat was a product of the offensive system (sub-par OLine and QB talent for the long pass) not the talent at WR.

He didn't say that the coach wasn't focusing on using our players' strengths in their respective roles. He said that we over-utilized Marshall to some extent and that Marshall's talent, along with our other personnel, did things like forcing Royal into the role of stretching the field, instead of playing the slot, because that wasn't Marshall's strength. McD was making sure that his best receiver was in the best position to make plays, but this was often at the expense of other players with similar strengths. You can't have every receiver on the field run a short, possession route every play, but because that's what Marshall was best at he got to run that route most of the time.

Orton's sometimes overwhelming reliance on Marshall when he was in the game didn't help things.

I'd rather look at the addition of a big, fast, deep threat to take over the role that Moss played in New England as a positive until proven otherwise, but if you want to take a wait-and-see approach that's yor prerogative.

I think the spin that Marshall was "over-utilized" and that is why the other receives struggled is a product of the play calling and the QB focusing on him. McDaniels admitted himself that he under-utilized Royal. IMO, it was an uber-conservative play calling process due to Orton's talent weaknesses. I don't see how Bey Bey will change that this year unless the Oline improves significantly and Orton can become more rounded with his pass selection due to familiarity with the system and protection time. I think he pretty much showed us the ceiling of his physical abilities. Hopefully, we can improve by the execution of the unit, enough to be a contender this year.

misturanderson
05-30-2010, 12:34 PM
I didn't witness Royal as being utilized as a deep threat, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. I agree that he has that ability as his ability to come out of breaks and stretch the field with his speed after the DB is out of position is excellent. I think the problem there was a combination of the O-Line and Orton's lack of mobility/tendency to not take those kinds of risks.

I won't disagree that the deep routes weren't utilized properly last year due to Orton and the OL, but you can't see what Royal was doing on every play from your TV, unless he is involved in the play (which was pretty rare last year likely due to the QB and OL deficiencies in down field passing).

I'm deferring to other members of this board who rewatch the games and analyze them more than I do with my claims that Royal was used in the deep threat role in this offense. Maybe they are wrong, but countering that you didn't see him used that way means jack **** unless you have game tape or went to several games and focused on him when he wasn't involved with the play.

hambone13
05-30-2010, 01:27 PM
I won't disagree that the deep routes weren't utilized properly last year due to Orton and the OL, but you can't see what Royal was doing on every play from your TV, unless he is involved in the play (which was pretty rare last year likely due to the QB and OL deficiencies in down field passing).

I'm deferring to other members of this board who rewatch the games and analyze them more than I do with my claims that Royal was used in the deep threat role in this offense. Maybe they are wrong, but countering that you didn't see him used that way means jack **** unless you have game tape or went to several games and focused on him when he wasn't involved with the play.

I don't have game tape but I definitely watch almost every game more than once on DVR. I think that McD's youth and wearing so many hats for the first time had a lot to do with how our offense was run. He was implementing a new system in his first year with a significant QB change. It's to be expected for any new coach installing a new system. He just didn't need to create the need for a new QB. If one is wise enough to know that interceptions are a problem for winning in the NFL, you would think that not creating a soap opera around the starting QB will have an equally if not greater significance to ones offensive production.

Chalk it up as a mistake, I get it, move on but we have bigger issues because of the personnel changes than this team needed because of questionable calls with personnel. The McPiranha will call me a hater but I still think those changes were the catalyst for most of the offensive issues that we're trying to euthanize with these draft selection discussions. I'm as excited as the next fan about the potential of our draft picks, the past is done but I'm still logically skeptical. We wouldn't have had to limit the play calling if we had a physically talented QB. We wouldn't have had the same controversy with Marshall if JC was still here. Rod Smith motivated Marshall by saying something to the affect of, "You're a great talent and look who you have throwing you the ball. Pull your head out. Can you imagine the potential for your legacy?"

It's just fan therapy to discuss the next Andre Johnson clone possibility because our offensive is unproven and rebuilding. I hope he exceeds all expectations and is the next great receiver of all time but right now, he can't even get into OTA's because of injury and he was our first round pick. It's not bitter, it's reality.

Dagmar
05-30-2010, 01:41 PM
I don't have game tape but I definitely watch almost every game more than once on DVR. I think that McD's youth and wearing so many hats for the first time had a lot to do with how our offense was run. He was implementing a new system in his first year with a significant QB change. It's to be expected for any new coach installing a new system. He just didn't need to create the need for a new QB. If one is wise enough to know that interceptions are a problem for winning in the NFL, you would think that not creating a soap opera around the starting QB will have an equally if not greater significance to ones offensive production.

Chalk it up as a mistake, I get it, move on but we have bigger issues because of the personnel changes than this team needed because of questionable calls with personnel. The McPiranha will call me a hater but I still think those changes were the catalyst for most of the offensive issues that we're trying to euthanize with these draft selection discussions. I'm as excited as the next fan about the potential of our draft picks, the past is done but I'm still logically skeptical. We wouldn't have had to limit the play calling if we had a physically talented QB. We wouldn't have had the same controversy with Marshall if JC was still here. Rod Smith motivated Marshall by saying something to the affect of, "You're a great talent and look who you have throwing you the ball. Pull your head out. Can you imagine the potential for your legacy?"

It's just fan therapy to discuss the next Andre Johnson clone possibility because our offensive is unproven and rebuilding. I hope he exceeds all expectations and is the next great receiver of all time but right now, he can't even get into OTA's because of injury and he was our first round pick. It's not bitter, it's reality.

Take your own bloody advice. And trading Jay Cutler WAS NOT A MISTAKE.

And Adrian Peterson was injured when he was drafted was he not? For all your long posts and their attempts at eloquence you simply come across as an immature idiotic child with you various "Mc" references.

hambone13
05-30-2010, 02:45 PM
Take your own bloody advice. And trading Jay Cutler WAS NOT A MISTAKE.

And Adrian Peterson was injured when he was drafted was he not? For all your long posts and their attempts at eloquence you simply come across as an immature idiotic child with you various "Mc" references.

The above bolded is opinion and again referenced in context as per your norm and is yet to be proven in either direction. Frankly, as John Lynch put it, we will never know what the potential was. At least I'm willing to admit that there is opinion involved. Get yourself back to the cafeteria with the other kids in the hall.

I'm not suggesting in any way shape or form that Bey Bey is a bust, just that it's a gamble created based on personnel moves that are again, questionable. Look it up. There's no proof in either direction at this point and I admit my skepticism.

Drek
05-31-2010, 02:34 AM
Give me an example of how they did this.

Eddie Royal on the wing instead of in the slot. Gaffney in the slot instead of on the wing. Designing the routes we ran to make Marshall's role as the short to intermediate receiver the #1 target when in New England it was #3.

Just to name a few.

This is an optimistic perspective with no real foundation. What evidence is there that "the players" weren't utilized for the strengths from the beginning? It seems contradictory to me to imply that McD approaches the game with a team approach but would focus the offense around Marshall's ability. Wouldn't McD put the players he has in their perspective roles based on their strengths from the beginning? I don't see any potential for addition until our draft picks, of which I like both of in theory of their potential, actually hit the practice field and can get some game time.

1. Did you really need to put up like 5 or 6 responses in a row? You couldn't cut and paste to bundle them into a single post?

2. See above.

3. McDaniels said himself that they did not optimally utilize Royal last year. So has Orton. Last year everyone figured Royal would be working out of the slot, but instead he worked primarily off the wing and McDaniels talked about how his speed was needed out there. Now as soon as Marshall's gone we hear that Royal is primarily working out of the slot in 3 WR sets.

Gaffney and Marshall are best suited for the same role in McDaniels' offense. Stokley and Royal are best suited for the same role in McDaniels' offense. Lloyd can actually play the third role that none of those guys are well suited for, but he joined the team too late to be ready at the start of the season, and no one got hurt so we rolled with what worked for the first six games. When Royal got hurt and Lloyd took over his job on the wing for a game and a half he produced pretty well.

I personally believe its another reason we where unwilling to give Brandon big money. In New England the role best suited to Brandon was in reality the 3rd WR. McDaniels would need to make significant adjustments to his offense to fit Marshall, taking the spotlight away from a role that Royal should be perfect for (the slot WR role that Wes Welker plays), and at the same time take all the other risks associated with Brandon that are now Miami's problems.

The Joker
05-31-2010, 04:24 AM
If he can get back in time for TC then I could still see him being on the field plenty this year.

He is essentially competing directly with Brandon Lloyd for his spot on the offense. Hardly a monumental mountain for him to climb.

As Drek has been illustrating, there are basically three very distinct WR spots in our offense.

At the moment, the battles for the spots are shaping up a bit like this.

X Receiver (Deep Threat) - Lloyd & Thomas

Y Receiver (Intermediate) - Gaffney & Decker

Z Receiver (Slot) - Royal, Stokely & McKinley

Now we know that McDaniels likes to have all his receivers know all the positions so they can move around if and when necessary, but these are the basic roles.

Royal is pretty much a lock to win his battle, and I think Gaffney is a pretty surefire bet to win out at the Y spot too.

So that leaves Thomas and Lloyd battling for the right to line up and play the deep threat role in the offense. What Thomas will have working in his favour is that it's a role that will allow him to do plenty of what he did in college (namely go long and try and come down with the big play) so missing out on the mini-camp reps will hopefully not be too big a deal. Lloyd is actually an interesting one for us going into camp. His best talent by far and away is his ability to make the odd spectacular catch here and there, so he'd actually quite well suited to what will be asked of him should he beat out Thomas and end up starting.

What will be interesting is seeing which WR's we have on our final roster.

Assuming the two rookies are fit and ready to play, we'll have...

Thomas, Lloyd, Decker, Gaffney, Royal, Stokely and McKinley...

We'll carry 6 receivers, at most, so the final cuts will be interesting I would imagine.

fontaine
05-31-2010, 04:53 AM
I understand and can appreciate the posts being made here about how Royal switching positions would have had an impact on his production etc etc.

But ultimately it's about running routes well and getting open. Good WRs that are good football players get the job done in different offenses, different positions and so on.

I'm not convinced that Royal, Gaffney, or whoever are going to make up for Marshall's production. I think our passing offense is going to be largely based on conservative passing which is fine because that's Orton's game but it just means our running game will have to be among the league's best to make up for it.

I'm not convinced of that either at the moment.

meangene
05-31-2010, 08:18 AM
If he can get back in time for TC then I could still see him being on the field plenty this year.

He is essentially competing directly with Brandon Lloyd for his spot on the offense. Hardly a monumental mountain for him to climb.

As Drek has been illustrating, there are basically three very distinct WR spots in our offense.

At the moment, the battles for the spots are shaping up a bit like this.

X Receiver (Deep Threat) - Lloyd & Thomas

Y Receiver (Intermediate) - Gaffney & Decker

Z Receiver (Slot) - Royal, Stokely & McKinley

Now we know that McDaniels likes to have all his receivers know all the positions so they can move around if and when necessary, but these are the basic roles.

Royal is pretty much a lock to win his battle, and I think Gaffney is a pretty surefire bet to win out at the Y spot too.

So that leaves Thomas and Lloyd battling for the right to line up and play the deep threat role in the offense. What Thomas will have working in his favour is that it's a role that will allow him to do plenty of what he did in college (namely go long and try and come down with the big play) so missing out on the mini-camp reps will hopefully not be too big a deal. Lloyd is actually an interesting one for us going into camp. His best talent by far and away is his ability to make the odd spectacular catch here and there, so he'd actually quite well suited to what will be asked of him should he beat out Thomas and end up starting.

What will be interesting is seeing which WR's we have on our final roster.

Assuming the two rookies are fit and ready to play, we'll have...

Thomas, Lloyd, Decker, Gaffney, Royal, Stokely and McKinley...

We'll carry 6 receivers, at most, so the final cuts will be interesting I would imagine.

This is exactly how I see it shaping up as well. I do think Decker will get more reps as the season progresses if he is healthy and he is also capable of playing the slot in four WR sets. I would not be surprised if Stokley is the odd man out.

meangene
05-31-2010, 08:19 AM
I understand and can appreciate the posts being made here about how Royal switching positions would have had an impact on his production etc etc.

But ultimately it's about running routes well and getting open. Good WRs that are good football players get the job done in different offenses, different positions and so on.

I'm not convinced that Royal, Gaffney, or whoever are going to make up for Marshall's production. I think our passing offense is going to be largely based on conservative passing which is fine because that's Orton's game but it just means our running game will have to be among the league's best to make up for it.

I'm not convinced of that either at the moment.

I'm not convinced Orton is gonna be the starter.

azbroncfan
05-31-2010, 08:23 AM
Some how I have a feeling Bey Bey won't contribute much this year.

The Joker
05-31-2010, 09:14 AM
This is exactly how I see it shaping up as well. I do think Decker will get more reps as the season progresses if he is healthy and he is also capable of playing the slot in four WR sets. I would not be surprised if Stokley is the odd man out.

It does seem like that may be the case, though having an experienced guy like Stokely on the roster could really help the younger guys learn... so I'm not sure.

Really does boil down to either Stokely or Lloyd it would seem. Maybe an outside chance McKinley gets cut if he looks terrible in camp but he looked like a guy with some skills in preseason last year, and he has use on ST's too.

Youth movement I guess though. Stokely will be 34 by the time the season gets going, thinking about it he does seem the likely recipient of the axe.