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Ugly Duck
05-28-2010, 06:08 PM
Hard to believe they put the Denver franchise ahead of Oakland... but at least the Broncos are just barely ahead....

Fox Sports 2nd annual NFL organizational rankings

We rank franchises 1 to 32 based upon: Owner, front office, head coach, coaching staff, QB and "intangibles," -- a combo of fan support, facilities, stadium and PR.

#13 Sandy Eggo: QB Phil Rivers is star. Say what you want about A.J. Smith's personality, but he's a fantastic general manager with a great eye for talent. Concerns about the Chargers' long-term future in San Diego hurt the overall number.

#18 Kansas City: Scott Pioli is a phenomenal executive. Carl Peterson and Herman Edwards ran the Chiefs straight into the ground, and Pioli has already made great progress in this major rebuilding job. Todd Haley is a solid first-time head coach with a new all-star staff featuring Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel. I have no idea what the Chiefs really have at quarterback.

#24 Broncos: Head coach McDaniels often shows his inexperience and struggles to get on the same page with players and coaches. Losing defensive coordinator Mike Nolan after one season was a major blow.

#29 Oakland Raiders: The Raiders are a mess under owner Al Davis. But the appointment of Hue Jackson as offensive coordinator and finally cutting the lazy and out-of-shape QB bust JaMarcus Russell actually kept the Raiders from getting a lower score.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/NFL-football-organization-franchise-rankings-2010#sport=NFL&photo=11237150

Doggcow
05-28-2010, 06:20 PM
Shouldn't Oakland be ahead of us?

Haley is a great first time head coach.

McD is inexperienced even though he won more games than Haley.

K.

Ugly Duck
05-28-2010, 06:23 PM
Shouldn't Oakland be ahead of us?

I think so, too. But these rankings are based on owner, front office, head coach, coaching staff, QB, fan support, facilities, stadium and PR.... not where they expect teams to finish in 2010.

Doggcow
05-28-2010, 06:27 PM
I think so, too. But these rankings are based on owner, front office, head coach, coaching staff, QB, fan support, facilities, stadium and PR.... not where they expect teams to finish in 2010.

Says intangibles. That's how I know you and the rankings are full of ****.

Tim Tebow.

tsiguy96
05-28-2010, 06:27 PM
so the chiefs have made great progress towards improving this team, but we havent...i really want to send fox sports our starting defense in 2008...

Killericon
05-28-2010, 06:31 PM
so the chiefs have made great progress towards improving this team, but we havent...i really want to send fox sports our starting defense in 2008...

They have name brand recognition in a good way(Pioli, Crennel, Weis). We have it in what seems to be a bad way(Tebow, McDaniels).

It has nothing to do with football, I think. Every rebuild hits this phase.

"They've drafted enough top rated prospects that they should be good. Breakout year!" I guess we'll just see if that's the case.

Doggcow
05-28-2010, 06:32 PM
They have name brand recognition in a good way(Pioli, Crennel, Weis). We have it in what seems to be a bad way(Tebow, McDaniels).

It has nothing to do with football, I think. Every rebuild hits this phase.

"They've drafted enough top rated prospects that they should be good. Breakout year!" I guess we'll just see if that's the case.

Wait Tebow is a bad brand? Isn't he kicking the **** out of everyone in jersey sales?

Ugly Duck
05-28-2010, 06:33 PM
Says intangibles. That's how I know you and the rankings are full of ****.

Hey... at least they still kinda rank the Bronco franchise barely ahead of the Raiders. Not quite the worst org in the AFCW just yet...

Hogan11
05-28-2010, 06:33 PM
Fox sports is like Fox News....it cannot be taken seriously

gyldenlove
05-28-2010, 06:46 PM
Say what you want about A.J. Smith's personality, but he's a fantastic general manager with a great eye for talent. Concerns about the Chargers' long-term future in San Diego hurt the overall number.

So they have a fantastic GM but concerns about the long-term future? that doesn't compute.

Normally these offseason rankings are a waste of time but this one is just downright pitiful.

GoBroncos DownUnder
05-28-2010, 06:48 PM
Breaking news:
I just took a dump! Much like Todd Haley, it stank the place up until it was flushed away! ;)

Archer81
05-28-2010, 06:51 PM
SD is ranked 13th but have lease issues and a ****box stadium and even with a "winning" team have a hard time avoiding blackouts...makes total sense.


:Broncos:

TheChamp24
05-28-2010, 07:12 PM
I think people are looking at that season ending debacle where the Chiefs murdered us and think they are on the verge of being a stud team.
I don't see how you can rank any team in the AFC West aside from the Chargers in the top 20. Not at this point in time IMO. Chiefs and Raiders still suck, and the Broncos lost a top 5 WR in Marshall replacing him with a rookie who has a broken foot, drafted a developmental QB in Tebow and the defense lost a good coach in Nolan. Maybe those pieces will fit together and build a quality team, but its hard to get mad at someone predicting the Broncos to go 7-9/8-8 with how the team is looking.

loborugger
05-28-2010, 07:12 PM
The simple reason for Denver being ahead of the Raiders is simple... over the past 5 years, Denver has proven they can rise to mediocre levels. The Raiders meanwhile are mired in double digit loss season as double digit loss season. Further, no offseason change - be it big free agent signing, changing the coach, or dumping a bad QB - has changed that.

fdf
05-28-2010, 07:15 PM
Fox sports is like Fox News....it cannot be taken seriously

I don't take any of the news networks seriously. I appreciate fox news, though in one regard. It covers stories the other networks spike. Without Fox, the nightly news is one long DNC press release.

Archer81
05-28-2010, 09:53 PM
I think people are looking at that season ending debacle where the Chiefs murdered us and think they are on the verge of being a stud team.
I don't see how you can rank any team in the AFC West aside from the Chargers in the top 20. Not at this point in time IMO. Chiefs and Raiders still suck, and the Broncos lost a top 5 WR in Marshall replacing him with a rookie who has a broken foot, drafted a developmental QB in Tebow and the defense lost a good coach in Nolan. Maybe those pieces will fit together and build a quality team, but its hard to get mad at someone predicting the Broncos to go 7-9/8-8 with how the team is looking.


No QB comes into the NFL and is as good as he will be his entire career. All QBs are developmental prospects when they get drafted or enter the league.

:Broncos:

TheReverend
05-28-2010, 10:29 PM
So they have a fantastic GM but concerns about the long-term future? that doesn't compute.

Normally these offseason rankings are a waste of time but this one is just downright pitiful.

They mean if the Chargers will be staying in San Diego.

KipCorrington25
05-28-2010, 10:53 PM
KC and Oakland both dominated us at home to end the '09 season so you can't be too surprised by this.

Kaylore
05-29-2010, 12:44 AM
I love the chiefs making "major progress" by winning like two more games and now they're better than us.

misturanderson
05-29-2010, 01:00 AM
KC and Oakland both dominated us at home to end the '09 season so you can't be too surprised by this.

A 1 point win that occurred essentially as time expired "dominated" us? You and I have different definitions of that word.

extralife
05-29-2010, 01:17 AM
How the **** is KC ahead of anyone not named the Detroit Lions? And hell, at least the Lions have some talented young players.

DarkHorse30
05-29-2010, 11:23 AM
I don't take any of the news networks seriously. I appreciate fox news, though in one regard. It covers stories the other networks spike. Without Fox, the nightly news is one long DNC press release.

this.

Hercules Rockefeller
05-29-2010, 11:38 AM
The only thing Pioli has done in 2 offseasons is show everyone that Belichek was the true genius in NE. The trade and subsequent contract for Cassel and using the 3rd overall on a 3-4 DE don't scream phenomenal executive. Their Front 7 is still atrocious. His smartest move was taking Berry, and as Boba Fett pointed out, a retarded monkey would have made that pick.

For all the **** McD gets about the collapse, Denver was still 8-8 with a couple close losses (Oak and Philly), Haley was 4-12. Haley hasn't shown he can get it done yet.

OCBronco
05-29-2010, 11:41 AM
Looks like another season where Denver will be flying under the radar. I'm ok with that.

tsiguy96
05-29-2010, 11:43 AM
The only thing Pioli has done in 2 offseasons is show everyone that Belichek was the true genius in NE. The trade and subsequent contract for Cassel and using the 3rd overall on a 3-4 DE don't scream phenomenal executive. Their Front 7 is still atrocious. His smartest move was taking Berry, and as Boba Fett pointed out, a retarded monkey would have made that pick.

For all the **** McD gets about the collapse, Denver was still 8-8 with a couple close losses (Oak and Philly), Haley was 4-12. Haley hasn't shown he can get it done yet.

tyson jackson was one of the worst dlineman in the league last year, according to FO

listopencil
05-29-2010, 12:39 PM
#13 Sandy Eggo: QB Phil Rivers is star. Say what you want about A.J. Smith's personality, but he's a fantastic general manager with a great eye for talent. Concerns about the Chargers' long-term future in San Diego hurt the overall number.

Sandy Eggo:QB Phillip Rivers is a douchebag. Say what you want about the Front Office, but the amazing talent it has acquired has gone largely wasted by a weak coaching staff. Concerns about the Chargers go unnoticed by their "fans" as even they don't care about the team for more than five minutes at a time.

#18 Kansas City: Scott Pioli is a phenomenal executive. Carl Peterson and Herman Edwards ran the Chiefs straight into the ground, and Pioli has already made great progress in this major rebuilding job. Todd Haley is a solid first-time head coach with a new all-star staff featuring Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel. I have no idea what the Chiefs really have at quarterback.

Kansas City: Scott Pioli has become the latest empty suit dedicated to destroying a once proud franchise. Together with Todd Haley, Charlie Weiss and Romeo Crennel, he appears to be stuck on the basement of this rebuild. Year seven of the new twenty year plan may very well be finally getting a decent Quarterback. As always Chiefs fans, wait and see I guess

#24 Broncos: Head coach McDaniels often shows his inexperience and struggles to get on the same page with players and coaches. Losing defensive coordinator Mike Nolan after one season was a major blow.


Broncos: Head Coach McDaniels doesn't care what we think. This really upsets us. We wanted to rank his team last in the division but we know how truly pathetic the Raiders are. Even we couldn't do that, miserable hacks that we are.


#29 Oakland Raiders: The Raiders are a mess under owner Al Davis. But the appointment of Hue Jackson as offensive coordinator and finally cutting the lazy and out-of-shape QB bust JaMarcus Russell actually kept the Raiders from getting a lower score.

Oakland Raiders: The Raiders are so bad that it's really a minor argument over where they really fall in a fluff piece about meaningless rankings. What's worse-having an eel shoved into your anus when passed out drunk at a party, or being molested by a priest? Figuring out the bottom five teams in the league is just as difficult a decision. One we're not up to.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/NFL-football-organization-franchise-rankings-2010#sport=NFL&photo=11237150

Dedhed
05-29-2010, 05:04 PM
If we're talking about "franchises" and Denver is outside the top 10, there's a joke involved. In this case, it's FOx Sports.

Kaylore
05-29-2010, 05:16 PM
Sandy Eggo:QB Phillip Rivers is a douchebag. Say what you want about the Front Office, but the amazing talent it has acquired has gone largely wasted by a weak coaching staff. Concerns about the Chargers go unnoticed by their "fans" as even they don't care about the team for more than five minutes at a time.



Kansas City: Scott Pioli has become the latest empty suit dedicated to destroying a once proud franchise. Together with Todd Haley, Charlie Weiss and Romeo Crennel, he appears to be stuck on the basement of this rebuild. Year seven of the new twenty year plan may very well be finally getting a decent Quarterback. As always Chiefs fans, wait and see I guess




Broncos: Head Coach McDaniels doesn't care what we think. This really upsets us. We wanted to rank his team last in the division but we know how truly pathetic the Raiders are. Even we couldn't do that, miserable hacks that we are.




Oakland Raiders: The Raiders are so bad that it's really a minor argument over where they really fall in a fluff piece about meaningless rankings. What's worse-having an eel shoved into your anus when passed out drunk at a party, or being molested by a priest? Figuring out the bottom five teams in the league is just as difficult a decision. One we're not up to.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/NFL-football-organization-franchise-rankings-2010#sport=NFL&photo=11237150

Well played, sir.

KCStud
05-29-2010, 10:03 PM
Maybe you guys should read KC's comment again, specifically the part about King Carl and Hermit running the team into the ground when Pioli took over.

KC was one of the worst teams in the league when Haley/Pioli took over. Denver was an average team that should have made the playoffs when McDaniels took over.

One year later, Denver has question marks all over the team. Your offense is relying on rookies to produce and your defense is full of older players on the decline.

Bannan, Green, Champ, Dawkins, Hill, Goodman and Williams are all 31 or older.

This was looking at the team as a whole as well. Not just players. There's no doubt in anyone's mind that Pioli is a better GM than yours and that our coaching staff as a whole is better than yours.

snowspot66
05-29-2010, 10:53 PM
This was looking at the team as a whole as well. Not just players. There's no doubt in anyone's mind that Pioli is a better GM than yours and that our coaching staff as a whole is better than yours.

You can consider this statement false. I wouldn't take them over ours any day.

listopencil
05-29-2010, 11:26 PM
KC was one of the worst teams in the league when Haley/Pioli took over. Denver was an average team that should have made the playoffs when McDaniels took over.

One year later, Denver has question marks all over the team. Your offense is relying on rookies to produce and your defense is full of older players on the decline.




News flash- one year later KC is still one of the worst teams in the league. And it took a season ending injury to our starting Right Tackle to bring us back down to the 8-8 level. You know, where we were when McD took over? Nice try. Thanks for playing.

ZachKC
05-29-2010, 11:40 PM
News flash- one year later KC is still one of the worst teams in the league. And it took a season ending injury to our starting Right Tackle to bring us back down to the 8-8 level. You know, where we were when McD took over? Nice try. Thanks for playing.

So...you guys stayed the same.

Even though KC improved their record.

And you didn't really improve over the course of the season.

Hercules Rockefeller
05-29-2010, 11:45 PM
Maybe you guys should read KC's comment again, specifically the part about King Carl and Hermit running the team into the ground when Pioli took over.

KC was one of the worst teams in the league when Haley/Pioli took over. Denver was an average team that should have made the playoffs when McDaniels took over.

One year later, Denver has question marks all over the team. Your offense is relying on rookies to produce and your defense is full of older players on the decline.

Bannan, Green, Champ, Dawkins, Hill, Goodman and Williams are all 31 or older.

This was looking at the team as a whole as well. Not just players. There's no doubt in anyone's mind that Pioli is a better GM than yours and that our coaching staff as a whole is better than yours.

KC is still one of the worst teams in the league, your super brain trust hasn't done anything to change that. The talent is still atrocious, especially on defense. I've said it before and I'll continue to repeat it: Dwayne Bowe and Jamaal Charles start for Denver's offense, and that's it. Anyone from KC good enough to start on Denver's D? Probably not. For all the question marks you think Denver has, KC still has one of the least talented rosters in the NFL.

But I like how you list off 7 guys who are 31 or older on Denver's D, and 5 just happen to be all of 31. Yes, Dawkins and Williams are old, but secondary players historically can still play well into their late 30's. Bailey, Goodman, and Hill all being 31 isn't really the dig you want/wish it to be. Whether or not McD can draft behind them remains to be seen, just like it still remains to be seen if Pioli actually is responsible for any part of the Pat's success. Since that's the only place he gets his reputation as a great GM. At this point, it doesn't look like it.

Oh, and no chance after the '08 season were you calling the Broncos an average team that should have made the playoffs in '09. That team's defense was historically bad, just like the Chiefs' D was that season. All of 0 people thought Denver would go from 29th in total D and 30th in points to 7th and 12th in one offseason. Only change to '09 is that McD addressed it and super GM Pioli put a defense on the field that was just as bad as the Chiefs fielded the year before.

Hercules Rockefeller
05-29-2010, 11:46 PM
So...you guys stayed the same.

Even though KC improved their record.

And you didn't really improve over the course of the season.

Wow. 2 wins to 4 wins. Super job guys.

worm
05-29-2010, 11:57 PM
Wow. 2 wins to 4 wins. Super job guys.

Ssssh!

This is the time of year that the Chiefs fans always make their Super Bowl run.

Why try to quash that?

ZachKC
05-30-2010, 08:15 AM
Ssssh!

This is the time of year that the Chiefs fans always make their Super Bowl run.

Why try to quash that?

Whoa, strawman.

ZachKC
05-30-2010, 08:16 AM
So, did you guys improve over the course of the year?

tsiguy96
05-30-2010, 08:21 AM
So, did you guys improve over the course of the year?

who cares, that doesnt determine your record. chiefs were bad, all year, and their record shows it.

ZachKC
05-30-2010, 08:25 AM
who cares, that doesnt determine your record. chiefs were bad, all year, and their record shows it.

I didn't say it determined your record.

I asked...quite simply...

If you improved over the course of the year?

tsiguy96
05-30-2010, 08:50 AM
that is totallllly a jhns argument. something thats not really relevant, but you still constantly bring it up anyway..

ZachKC
05-30-2010, 08:56 AM
that is totallllly a jhns argument. something thats not really relevant, but you still constantly bring it up anyway..

How is your team improving or not improving not relevant to anything on a football message board? When have I "constantly" brought this up? I am not even around much. Show me where I have brought this up.

ZachKC
05-30-2010, 08:57 AM
This isn't some crazy trap orchestrated for you tsi...the question is very very simple.

tsiguy96
05-30-2010, 09:00 AM
This isn't some crazy trap orchestrated for you tsi...the question is very very simple.

that doesnt change teh fact that its not relevant. the team clearly did not get better, but the talent and potential of the team was clearly shown at some point during the season, where they started 6-0. they won more games in 5 weeks than the chiefs did in 17. they got worse at one point but guess what, that season is over and the next one is upon us. the broncos showed last year they can be great, what did the chiefs show? that they can win 4 games?

ZachKC
05-30-2010, 09:04 AM
that doesnt change teh fact that its not relevant. the team clearly did not get better, but the talent and potential of the team was clearly shown at some point during the season, where they started 6-0. they won more games in 5 weeks than the chiefs did in 17. they got worse at one point but guess what, that season is over and the next one is upon us. the broncos showed last year they can be great, what did the chiefs show? that they can win 4 games?

The Broncos had a decent foundation and got worse the further they got into McDaniels campaign. At no point did the Broncos show they could be "great" I expect silliness like this from you but it is still funny when you actually type it.

The Chiefs were not working with a whole lot and improved as the season progressed coupled with what is seeming to be a decent off season.

Who will be better next year? I am not so sure. Should be fun to watch.

ZachKC
05-30-2010, 09:05 AM
When have I "constantly" brought this up?

Still waiting for this.

tsiguy96
05-30-2010, 09:10 AM
The Broncos had a decent foundation and got worse the further they got into McDaniels campaign. At no point did the Broncos show they could be "great" I expect silliness like this from you but it is still funny when you actually type it.

The Chiefs were not working with a whole lot and improved as the season progressed coupled with what is seeming to be a decent off season.

Who will be better next year? I am not so sure. Should be fun to watch.

so the longer mcd was the coach, the worse they got, even though he was the coach during the games they won (against some of the best teams in the NFL)?

really, really trying to reach for a team that has been historically bad for a very long time. you have no reason to believe the chiefs will win more than 5 games, yet you talk is if they are going to compete with denver this year for their place in the AFCW

ZachKC
05-30-2010, 09:13 AM
so the longer mcd was the coach, the worse they got, even though he was the coach during the games they won (against some of the best teams in the NFL)?

really, really trying to reach for a team that has been historically bad for a very long time. you have no reason to believe the chiefs will win more than 5 games, yet you talk is if they are going to compete with denver this year for their place in the AFCW

Yes, even thought he coached the games where they won.

What about "further they got into McDaniels campaign" do you not understand.

Why wouldn't they be able to "compete" with Denver? Nobody swept anyone last year and you can't go a month without losing one of your best players. Team management has been a farce.

ZachKC
05-30-2010, 09:18 AM
You guys were 20th in the NFL in scoring last year and just lost your best WR.

Hercules Rockefeller
05-30-2010, 09:27 AM
You guys were 20th in the NFL in scoring last year and just lost your best WR.

and you were 24th, and your only addition to your offense is someone who will be your backup RB. Your OL still sucks and your QB is a statue.

You were 29th in scoring defense and added nothing.

What's your point?

We can play this game all day. You beat all of 1 team with a winning record last year and 1 8-8 team. Neither of those two teams made the playoffs, but I'm sure you guys think you're improving.

Denver beat 4 division winners and an 8-8 team.

Hercules Rockefeller
05-30-2010, 09:31 AM
Why wouldn't they be able to "compete" with Denver? Nobody swept anyone last year and you can't go a month without losing one of your best players. Team management has been a farce.

and at this point, team management has been a farce in KC @ the GM position too.

Tyson Jackson with the 3rd overall pick. The trade and contract for Cassel. OL still has not been addressed. Front 7 on defense has not been addressed. McCluster at your 2A last month. Besides the Berry pick, which was the pick just about every other team would have made in that spot, Pioli really hasn't lit the world on fire.

Mcs at least turned the defense around a lot quicker than anyone thought he could.

Ugly Duck
05-30-2010, 10:28 AM
So, did you guys improve over the course of the year?

At first I thought, as many of you did, that Zach is just full of something that we wipe off of our shoes after walking the dog. That he is just another honking glop of snot easily removed with a common kleenex. But then... I looked at the records of our teams in the last half of the '09 season & saw that maybe he has a point. Both KC & Oakland had better records than Denver in the second half. The Broncos lost to both the Chiefs & the Raiders in that time period. Maybe he's not as dumb as everyone thinks... maybe both KC & Oakland are on the way up as Denver is on the way down....

tsiguy96
05-30-2010, 10:32 AM
At first I thought, as many of you did, that Zach is just full of something that we wipe off of our shoes after walking the dog. That he is just another honking glop of green-gray snot easily removed with a common kleenex. But then... I looked at the records of our teams in the last half of the '09 season & saw that maybe he has a point. Both KC & Oakland had better records than Denver in the second half. The Broncos lost to both the Chiefs & the Raiders in that time period. Maybe he's not as dumb as everyone thinks... maybe both KC & Oakland are on the way up as Denver is on the way down....

like i said before, the 2nd half is not the only half of football. the titans showed that.

the run defense died the 2nd half of the year, easily the biggest problem on the team. what did mcdaniels do? signed 3 quality guys to start and used our old guys to backup, who did pretty well for awhile as starters. taht says to me mcdaniels know the part of the team that broke down, went out and corrected it.

Ugly Duck
05-30-2010, 10:38 AM
like i said before, the 2nd half is not the only half of football.

trend: noun
1. a general direction in which something tends to move
2. general line of orientation

listopencil
05-30-2010, 10:57 AM
So...you guys stayed the same.

Even though KC improved their record.

And you didn't really improve over the course of the season.


So which is it? Are you trying to compare the two teams based on how they performed last season or are you trying to compare the two teams in general?

listopencil
05-30-2010, 11:30 AM
like i said before, the 2nd half is not the only half of football. the titans showed that.

the run defense died the 2nd half of the year, easily the biggest problem on the team. what did mcdaniels do? signed 3 quality guys to start and used our old guys to backup, who did pretty well for awhile as starters. taht says to me mcdaniels know the part of the team that broke down, went out and corrected it.

Nah, I'd say the biggest problem was the O-Line. Ryan Harris went down and we had nothing to replace him with. Offense couldn't move the ball. You can't just keep throwing the Defense out on the field constantly or it wears down. It wore down and we couldn't stop anybody.

Kaylore
05-30-2010, 12:37 PM
Especially in football, but in sports in general, how a team finishes the previous season rarely indicates how they're going to start. This is especially true in football where turnover is so high year to year and injuries dramatically affect a team's final record.

Bottom line: Zach and Ugly Duck are full of crap.

Ugly Duck
05-30-2010, 01:21 PM
Bottom line: Zach and Ugly Duck are full of crap.

Yo... whoa.. hey now - maybe I was wrong... gimme a minute to go back & check the stats...

Nope, it checks out. Denver had the best AFCW performance in the first half, and the worst AFCW performance in the second half. Best in the 1st, worst in the 2nd. Last half...worse than Sandy Eggo. Worse than Kansas City. Worse than Oakland. I dunno, dude... that looks like a downward trend...

KCStud
05-30-2010, 02:08 PM
KC is still one of the worst teams in the league, your super brain trust hasn't done anything to change that. The talent is still atrocious, especially on defense. I've said it before and I'll continue to repeat it: Dwayne Bowe and Jamaal Charles start for Denver's offense, and that's it. Anyone from KC good enough to start on Denver's D? Probably not. For all the question marks you think Denver has, KC still has one of the least talented rosters in the NFL.

But I like how you list off 7 guys who are 31 or older on Denver's D, and 5 just happen to be all of 31. Yes, Dawkins and Williams are old, but secondary players historically can still play well into their late 30's. Bailey, Goodman, and Hill all being 31 isn't really the dig you want/wish it to be. Whether or not McD can draft behind them remains to be seen, just like it still remains to be seen if Pioli actually is responsible for any part of the Pat's success. Since that's the only place he gets his reputation as a great GM. At this point, it doesn't look like it.

Oh, and no chance after the '08 season were you calling the Broncos an average team that should have made the playoffs in '09. That team's defense was historically bad, just like the Chiefs' D was that season. All of 0 people thought Denver would go from 29th in total D and 30th in points to 7th and 12th in one offseason. Only change to '09 is that McD addressed it and super GM Pioli put a defense on the field that was just as bad as the Chiefs fielded the year before.

Who cares who starts over who? We still beat your team to the ground in a pivital game at your place with so called "scrubs". You don't know how your offense will look next year because your interior OL and weapons outside of Royal are unproven rookies. McD doesn't have one of the best Defensive Coordinators running the D anymore.
Pioli added one of the, if not the, most respected 3-4 DC's in the entire league and also a top 5 pick that many people think will be an all-star.

Denver got progressively worse last season and now your best offensive player got out (again).

KC's defense was worse last season because we installed the 3-4 D in the first year with the team with very young players who had to transition (though Hali did a great job).

KC has just as much talent, if not MORE than your beloved Broncos.

SoCalBronco
05-30-2010, 02:16 PM
#24 is unreasonably harsh for Denver.

I think there's a good coaching staff there....they took a hit with Nolan leaving to be sure, but I think they've got quality people in that area, nonetheless. Nunnelly and Martindale did a good job transitioning 4-3 players into the 3-4. Josh has put together a real nice group of position coaches and he does a nice job being creative with the limited and/or green personnel he had in the offensive backfield last year.

While I strongly disagree with and extremely despise the front office's general philosophy of sacrificing draft picks left and right just to get "their man", it is still too early to assess how well they do in actually evaluating college talent. They get high marks for their free agent choices so far. They've been able to find a number of solid contributors at bargain basement prices (Fields, A. Davis, Gaffney, Haggan, Hill, Goodman) and even with high profile acquisitions like Dawkins and Jamal Williams, they've done a nice job of negotiating contracts to let them out in the short term if things go badly. FA Acquisition is probably the single best thing they have done so far.

Fan support and stadium are still in the top 5-10. Denver isn't a bandwagon city like say LA. Our fans are great and they still sellout the stadium consistently. I believe Forbes still has team financial value in the Top 10, so the stadium and merchandise streams can't be too bad. Ownership probably brings down the ranking, though. I don't particularly care for Bowlen in his current form. I believe his complete about face on financial commitment the last five years was a substantial factor in the demise of the prior staff. He's no longer anything special as an owner. The QB situation is in flux, but I think they have something special in Tebow once he's ready to ball. Props to Josh and the team for recognizing that the present situation at that spot was absolutely unacceptable and trying to create some real competition through FA and the draft.

Overall, I think Denver as an organization is probably between #10 and #15. #24 is grossly unfair.

Florida_Bronco
05-30-2010, 04:57 PM
McD doesn't have one of the best Defensive Coordinators running the D anymore. He didn't have one last year either.

Pioli added one of the, if not the, most respected 3-4 DC's in the entire league You mean the guy who was nothing more than Belichick's wingman in New England and only once put up a top 10 defense when he ran the show in Cleveland?

Like Nolan, Crennel is a good but not great coordinator, so let's not pretend otherwise.

DenverBrit
05-30-2010, 06:05 PM
#24 is unreasonably harsh for Denver.

I think there's a good coaching staff there....they took a hit with Nolan leaving to be sure, but I think they've got quality people in that area, nonetheless. Nunnelly and Martindale did a good job transitioning 4-3 players into the 3-4. Josh has put together a real nice group of position coaches and he does a nice job being creative with the limited and/or green personnel he had in the offensive backfield last year.

While I strongly disagree with and extremely despise the front office's general philosophy of sacrificing draft picks left and right just to get "their man", it is still too early to assess how well they do in actually evaluating college talent. They get high marks for their free agent choices so far. They've been able to find a number of solid contributors at bargain basement prices (Fields, A. Davis, Gaffney, Haggan, Hill, Goodman) and even with high profile acquisitions like Dawkins and Jamal Williams, they've done a nice job of negotiating contracts to let them out in the short term if things go badly. FA Acquisition is probably the single best thing they have done so far.

Fan support and stadium are still in the top 5-10. Denver isn't a bandwagon city like say LA. Our fans are great and they still sellout the stadium consistently. I believe Forbes still has team financial value in the Top 10, so the stadium and merchandise streams can't be too bad. Ownership probably brings down the ranking, though. I don't particularly care for Bowlen in his current form. I believe his complete about face on financial commitment the last five years was a substantial factor in the demise of the prior staff. He's no longer anything special as an owner. The QB situation is in flux, but I think they have something special in Tebow once he's ready to ball. Props to Josh and the team for recognizing that the present situation at that spot was absolutely unacceptable and trying to create some real competition through FA and the draft.

Overall, I think Denver as an organization is probably between #10 and #15. #24 is grossly unfair.

It's Adam Schein, a hack with the most annoying voice on the planet. ;D

ZachKC
05-31-2010, 05:25 AM
maybe both KC & Oakland are on the way up as Denver is on the way down....

I don't know...the answer to me is "maybe"

I mean Denver might come out and be better this year...a lot better. I don't really see it happening but this is a wide open thing. I think the Chiefs are absolutely headed in the right direction. The amount of time they took to hire Haley really hamstrung us staffing wise. That Kansas City team got better over the course of the season and at the place they were, that is what you need.

They have a more experienced staff in place and won't need to literally throw out the whole play book after training camp. Some consistency will do this team good.

Will they be better than Denver? Not sure. But the idea Denver is light years ahead of the Chiefs especially with all their personnel gaffes is the only thing I am pushing back against in this thread.

TheReverend
05-31-2010, 08:27 AM
They get high marks for their free agent choices so far. They've been able to find a number of solid contributors at bargain basement prices (Fields, A. Davis, Gaffney, Haggan, Hill, Goodman)

Haggan is a holdover from the prior regime.