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View Full Version : kyle orton was available for trade, according to DP


tsiguy96
05-23-2010, 09:44 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncosheadlines/ci_15143299?source=rss&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter

brncs_fan
05-23-2010, 09:51 AM
If I was Orton I would demand a trade and refuse to answer any phone calls from the front office!

Los Broncos
05-23-2010, 09:53 AM
From what I've heard he is ignoring Bowlens phone calls.

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 09:55 AM
"Was" available? It should be "is currently available."

Sigh. Seriously, get this guy out of here.

Paladin
05-23-2010, 09:57 AM
You are out of your mind.



But you already knew that......

strafen
05-23-2010, 10:05 AM
He's still available.
I doubt any team would want him, though...

ScottXray
05-23-2010, 10:08 AM
Sure he WAS available ...before the draft and before he signed his Tender.

If we were offered a 1st and third before the draft I think McD would have taken
the offer, as he could have packaged those to move up. Nobody offerred and so Orton is our #1. Now he is NOT for trade....
Unless someone offers the same type of deal...NOT happening.

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 10:10 AM
Wait... You're saying the only way we'd trade Orton is if we got a 1st and 3rd? Holy hell, I hope not. That is beyond a pipe dream. That's flat-out ridiculous.

I'd be happy with a 4th at this point. Orton sucks.

Paladin
05-23-2010, 10:34 AM
Trading Orton would be a bad mistake. But for some around here, thinking is that activity that exists to justify the conclusions already reached through other means, mainly through ostrich-emmulating denial of facts. It is amazing that some around here are still in post-Elway partum depression. The MSM continues to hammer at their "ideas" about how the team should be built, and some around here believe that crap. I should think people ewould watch and see what transpires.

I do not think trading Orton would help McD in his efforts to develop the team, nor give the team the best chance to win. Yeah, I'd go with the guy who has won some NFL games. Maybe the others will learn as the season progresses. With Orton, I'd see 10+ wins this year. With anyone else at QB, I'd see no more than 8......

HAT
05-23-2010, 10:36 AM
In case anyone is too lazy to click the link....here's a recap:
(You're welcome in advance)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A Broncos source said Orton is not on the trading block.

Based on the Broncos' first offseason practice that was open to the media Monday, any deal involving Orton would be a trade involving their best quarterback.

Orton, meanwhile, carried himself with the type of relaxed, poised demeanor common among established quarterbacks.

Orton was also the most efficient passer of the group.

Kyle Orton has been a very good, very accomplished quarterback in this league for a long time.

"Once you've been in this business awhile, you realize that people keep coming for your job every year," Stokley said. "Very few people in this league don't have competition for their jobs. Peyton Manning. Tom Brady. Those guys. But other than that, you've got to get young guys in. And you kind of just get used to it."

Jason in LA
05-23-2010, 10:47 AM
So the Broncos don't really want Orton. No other team wants the guy, so the Broncos are kind of stuck with him. But some folks around here want him as the QB? I guess NFL GMs and coaches are wrong, but message board guys are right.

Jason in LA
05-23-2010, 10:49 AM
It is amazing that some around here are still in post-Elway partum depression.

Has nothing to do with Elway. I don't see why fans wanting good play from the QB position means that we're expecting another Elway.

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 11:05 AM
With Orton, I'd see 10+ wins this year. With anyone else at QB, I'd see no more than 8......

And right here is the crux of the Orton debate. Are you high on the team or not. If you are, you want Orton. You think the team is fine, as such, you don't want change. Which makes sense. If you're down on the team, chances are you probably want change, starting with the QB, since that is the marquee position.

I haven't even looked at the schedule yet to analyze, but after our epic collapse last year, what makes you think that we're magically going to win 10 games (or more) this year? We have a middle-of-the-road QB, we have unknowns at RB, WR, and offensive line. We have 2 stars in the defensive secondary but we're still trying to rebuild the defensive front-7, and our special teams have notoriously been bad. And oh yeah, we had a coaching change on defense, to add to the chaos.

We're rebuilding. We're not winning a Super Bowl this year. That's why I'm personally willing to roll the dice with Quinn or hell, even Brandstater. (Even I'm not crazy enough to advocate for Tebow) I don't see Orton leading us anywhere. This has nothing to do with Elway. This has everything to do with Orton's lack of skill. As such, if we are rebuilding and whatnot, I want to see what our options are. I see it as a waste of time to stick to a guy who we know isn't the answer. Is Quinn the answer? I have no idea. But I'm willing to try something new. In fact, I give Quinn the benefit of the doubt since he was in a ****hole like Cleveland to start.

ro_50
05-23-2010, 11:09 AM
I like Orton but again, how much confidence does McD have in him by trading for Quinn and drafting Tebow.

I know McD is all about competition but you don't make those deals if you think Orton is your guy beyond this year.

If Orton struggles out of the gate, I would not be surprised to see Quinn play.

Cito Pelon
05-23-2010, 11:21 AM
So the Broncos don't really want Orton. No other team wants the guy, so the Broncos are kind of stuck with him. But some folks around here want him as the QB? I guess NFL GMs and coaches are wrong, but message board guys are right.

So you're gonna go into a bigtime depression I guess when Orton opens the season as the starting QB.

Jason in LA
05-23-2010, 11:27 AM
So you're gonna go into a bigtime depression I guess when Orton opens the season as the starting QB.

I won't be excited about it at all, but if he is the starter I'll be rooting for him. Just like last year.

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 11:31 AM
I won't be excited about it at all, but if he is the starter I'll be rooting for him. Just like last year.

Exactly.

I knew this was where the conversation would turn. The whole "you want Orton to fail so you'll be right" shtick. The idea that people who dislike Orton (Or McDaniels, etc) want them to fail. That they want the Broncos to fail. It's so, so stupid.

I don't like Orton. I've made it pretty clear. That doesn't mean I wish the guy ill. If he proves me wrong, if he proves that I know nothing about the NFL, I will gladly eat my crow. A huge serving. Because that means the team that I've been supporting since birth was winning. I want to be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I want Orton to lead us to the promised land. Do I see it happening? No. But that doesn't mean that when the lights go on in September I'll be rooting against Orton or this team. I want so badly to be proven wrong. I will always root for the 22 guys on the field, always.

This idea that people who don't support Kyle Orton won't root for the team or will go into a "bigtime depression" is hilarious retarded.

Jason in LA
05-23-2010, 11:33 AM
I haven't even looked at the schedule yet to analyze, but after our epic collapse last year, what makes you think that we're magically going to win 10 games (or more) this year? We have a middle-of-the-road QB, we have unknowns at RB, WR, and offensive line. We have 2 stars in the defensive secondary but we're still trying to rebuild the defensive front-7, and our special teams have notoriously been bad. And oh yeah, we had a coaching change on defense, to add to the chaos.



I'll be rooting for this team to win 10+ games, but I don't see why some people around here think that this team will win that many games. There are so many question marks on both sides of the ball. There really isn't besides wishful thinking that says this is a 10 win team. It was a huge surprise that they even won 8 games last year.

tsiguy96
05-23-2010, 11:37 AM
I'll be rooting for this team to win 10+ games, but I don't see why some people around here think that this team will win that many games. There are so many question marks on both sides of the ball. There really isn't besides wishful thinking that says this is a 10 win team. It was a huge surprise that they even won 8 games last year.

so teh team won more games than you expected last year after you spent all offseason whining about how bad (top 5 pick!!) this team is, yet you are doing it again this offseason after there has been several upgrades all over the team....makes sense.

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 11:40 AM
so teh team won more games than you expected last year after you spent all offseason whining about how bad (top 5 pick!!) this team is, yet you are doing it again this offseason after there has been several upgrades all over the team....makes sense.

Several upgrades? Where exactly?

lostknight
05-23-2010, 11:40 AM
Just a note for all thoose citing Orton's practice performance, remember that Jake Plummer's Training Camp was universally lauded prior to his complete and total collapse and benching in favor of Cutler.

WolfpackGuy
05-23-2010, 11:40 AM
Unfortunately, Orton is the best option at QB going into the season.

Jason in LA
05-23-2010, 11:41 AM
Exactly.

I knew this was where the conversation would turn. The whole "you want Orton to fail so you'll be right" shtick. The idea that people who dislike Orton (Or McDaniels, etc) want them to fail. That they want the Broncos to fail. It's so, so stupid.

I don't like Orton. I've made it pretty clear. That doesn't mean I wish the guy ill. If he proves me wrong, if he proves that I know nothing about the NFL, I will gladly eat my crow. A huge serving. Because that means the team that I've been supporting since birth was winning. I want to be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I want Orton to lead us to the promised land. Do I see it happening? No. But that doesn't mean that when the lights go on in September I'll be rooting against Orton or this team. I want so badly to be proven wrong. I will always root for the 22 guys on the field, always.

This idea that people who don't support Kyle Orton won't root for the team or will go into a "bigtime depression" is hilarious retarded.

Last year it was really annoying around here because of the two camps. The one camp that wanted to be right so bad that it seemed like they were rooting against the team, and the camp that had the attitude that anybody who did not like the offseason moves were rooting against the team. It was very annoying that when I, or anybody else who questioned the moves, were accused of rooting against the team.

Like you, I wanted them to prove me wrong, and I was doing back flips through the first 6 games when they were totally proving me wrong. That may be the only time I was overjoyed to be wrong. Well we know how that turned out. I was pretty pissed to somewhat be proven right in the end.

I don't see this team as being very competitive this year, but I will be rooting for that. Just because I want them to win 10 games doesn't mean that I'm going to act like it's bound to happen. It's not a solid argument.

tsiguy96
05-23-2010, 11:42 AM
Several upgrades? Where exactly?

when did you turn into whiny hater?

lets start here, in terms of pure upgrades over last year:
dline
interior oline, which will allow moreno to be better because hes not getting destroyed 3 yards behind the line
wr depth

in terms of players being better in their 2nd year in new system:
QB
doom/ayers

now, where exactly did the team get WORSE?

Jason in LA
05-23-2010, 11:44 AM
so teh team won more games than you expected last year after you spent all offseason whining about how bad (top 5 pick!!) this team is, yet you are doing it again this offseason after there has been several upgrades all over the team....makes sense.

Come on man, can you be a little objective? What says 10 win team about this team? Hell, at this point they don't even have a QB locked in. And lets not act like last year was some kind of success.

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 11:51 AM
when did you turn into whiny hater?

lets start here, in terms of pure upgrades over last year:
dline
interior oline, which will allow moreno to be better because hes not getting destroyed 3 yards behind the line
wr depth

in terms of players being better in their 2nd year in new system:
QB
doom/ayers

now, where exactly did the team get WORSE?

I didn't say we got worse. And I'm willing to agree that Orton could/should show improvement in the second year of the system. I disagree on Doom and Ayers, considering they have a new D Coordinator. Although I really like Doom. And hopefully Ayers gets better in his second year in the league.

You know, when the Raiders drafted JaMarcus Russell, they thought they had a huge upgrade at the QB position. How did that work out? My point is, I think it's way too early to say that we upgrade at positions like dline, or oline, or WR because we drafted those positions. Hell speaking of the Raiders, Robert Gallery was supposed to be their anchor for years. Again, how did that work out?

Look, I'm not "hating" by any means. But until the lights come on and the rookies prove it, I'm not going to sit here and say "We definitely got better." Because nobody knows if we did or didn't. I hope that Demaryius and the rest of the draft class set the world on fire. I hope that those interior line guys we got open holes so big you could drive a truck through them. But until they do, I'm not going to sit here and proclaim that this team has gotten better. I just don't know that yet. As of right now, our WRs got worse. We traded a Top-5 guy, and we don't know what the result will be. Again, I hope Demaryius is Brandon Marshall times 10. Nothing would make me happier. But we just don't know that yet.

And again, this is the crux of the argument. Are you high on the team or not. If you're high on the team, Orton is good and all the rookies are surefire stars. If you're not high on the team, or if you're unsure on the team, you don't necessarily see it that way.

HEAV
05-23-2010, 11:52 AM
Klis articles give me a headaches....and Kiszla articles make me vomit.

BroncoSojia
05-23-2010, 11:56 AM
when did you turn into whiny hater?

lets start here, in terms of pure upgrades over last year:
dline a career backup, and two players that old, coming off major injuries, and have little to nothing left
interior oline, which will allow moreno to be better because hes not getting destroyed 3 yards behind the line a 3rd round center and a guard that was picked 2 rounds too early? I'm sorry but I don't expect them to come in and produce right away considering they are rookies
wr depth 2 rookies? both are coming off foot injuries and one doesn't know how to run routes at a NFL level right now.

in terms of players being better in their 2nd year in new system:
QB
doom/ayers

now, where exactly did the team get WORSE?

Not to mention we let go of Davis and we still don't have a replacement for him at ILB yet.


Waaay too many holes and question marks imo

tsiguy96
05-23-2010, 11:57 AM
I didn't say we got worse. And I'm willing to agree that Orton could/should show improvement in the second year of the system. I disagree on Doom and Ayers, considering they have a new D Coordinator. Although I really like Doom. And hopefully Ayers gets better in his second year in the league.

You know, when the Raiders drafted JaMarcus Russell, they thought they had a huge upgrade at the QB position. How did that work out? My point is, I think it's way too early to say that we upgrade at positions like dline, or oline, or WR because we drafted those positions. Hell speaking of the Raiders, Robert Gallery was supposed to be their anchor for years. Again, how did that work out?

Look, I'm not "hating" by any means. But until the lights come on and the rookies prove it, I'm not going to sit here and say "We definitely got better." Because nobody knows if we did or didn't. I hope that Demaryius and the rest of the draft class set the world on fire. I hope that those interior line guys we got open holes so big you could drive a truck through them. But until they do, I'm not going to sit here and proclaim that this team has gotten better. I just don't know that yet. As of right now, our WRs got worse. We traded a Top-5 guy, and we don't know what the result will be. Again, I hope Demaryius is Brandon Marshall times 10. Nothing would make me happier. But we just don't know that yet.

And again, this is the crux of the argument. Are you high on the team or not. If you're high on the team, Orton is good and all the rookies are surefire stars. If you're not high on the team, or if you're unsure on the team, you don't necessarily see it that way.

either way you are supposed to be a fan of this team. arguing about how bad they are and why you hate everything thats going to happen doesnt change a damn thing. this is entertainment, what you think does not make a difference, so try to have fun with it.

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 12:01 PM
either way you are supposed to be a fan of this team. arguing about how bad they are and why you hate everything thats going to happen doesnt change a damn thing. this is entertainment, what you think does not make a difference, so try to have fun with it.

That is ridiculously stupid.

But hey, thanks for playing.

And for the record, this is fun. I love nothing more in this life than sports. Yeah, our team isn't going to be good this year, but that doesn't mean I won't go to a game or two, and that doesn't mean I won't watch every second. Sports are inherently fun, even when your team isn't great. I love my fandom.

But hey, if the only way you can have fun is to talk yourself into believing that we're going 16-0 this year, that's certainly your prerogative.

boltaneer
05-23-2010, 12:05 PM
Orton is one of those players who has more value to the team he's currently on than to anyone else. McDaniels is nuts if he wants/wanted to dump him.

tsiguy96
05-23-2010, 12:05 PM
That is ridiculously stupid.

But hey, thanks for playing.

And for the record, this is fun. I love nothing more in this life than sports. Yeah, our team isn't going to be good this year, but that doesn't mean I won't go to a game or two, and that doesn't mean I won't watch every second. Sports are inherently fun, even when your team isn't great. I love my fandom.

But hey, if the only way you can have fun is to talk yourself into believing that we're going 16-0 this year, that's certainly your prerogative.

never said the team will be perfect, but your proclamation that the team will suck is equally if not more ridiculous. did you say the same "we will win 1 or 2 games if we are lucky" thing last year too?

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 12:10 PM
never said the team will be perfect, but your proclamation that the team will suck is equally if not more ridiculous. did you say the same "we will win 1 or 2 games if we are lucky" thing last year too?

Indeed, I said 3-5 and I was ecstatic when we started off 6-0. The team surprised me and I loved every second of it. I was less ecstatic at our 2-8 finish, but that's how it goes sometimes. This is why I'm less inclined to try and predict the wins this year, because it's all on paper right now. I have my thoughts (probably around 8-8 again) but we'll see when the lights come on in September.

WolfpackGuy
05-23-2010, 12:12 PM
Not to mention we let go of Davis and we still don't have a replacement for him at ILB yet.

That move was a head scratcher especially since he wasn't making that much.

He's not a world beater, but he's a solid tackler.

no-pseudo-fan
05-23-2010, 12:24 PM
This is a true statement:

Orton needs to be the best QB by a lot to start this year.

If it is close, then what is the point of holding back the future.

tsiguy96
05-23-2010, 12:25 PM
This is a true statement:

Orton needs to be the best QB by a lot to start this year.

If it is close, then what is the point of holding back the future.

on a team that is playing for a super bowl, the best players play, not the future players.

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 12:41 PM
on a team that is playing for a super bowl, the best players play, not the future players.

Luckily for McDaniels, this team isn't a Super Bowl contending team. As such, he can think more long term and consider development for the future in making personnel decisions.

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 12:48 PM
No other team wants the guy, so the Broncos are kind of stuck with him. I guess NFL GMs and coaches are wrong.

When it comes to "wrong" ... I'm thinking the Browns' front office is gonna look pretty stupid if, as it appears, Josh does start Brady, and Brady does well here.

If that happens, they better hope Peyton Hillis kicks some major ass for them

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 12:51 PM
When it comes to "wrong" ... I'm thinking the Browns' front office is gonna look pretty stupid if, as it appears, Josh does start Brady, and Brady does well here.

If that happens, they better hope Peyton Hillis kicks some major ass for them

Hope? Come on sir, we both know Peyton Hillis kicks ass on a daily basis!

Cito Pelon
05-23-2010, 12:55 PM
Luckily for McDaniels, this team isn't a Super Bowl contending team. As such, he can think more long term and consider development for the future in making personnel decisions.

Rhymes, when Shanny was here you were all super-Bronco, Shanny could do no wrong, have faith in Shanny, in Shanny I trust, all that.

As soon as Shanny was gone, you went 180 degrees the opposite, everything Bronco is stupid, every move is a disaster in the making.

yerner
05-23-2010, 01:06 PM
either way you are supposed to be a fan of this team. arguing about how bad they are and why you hate everything thats going to happen doesnt change a damn thing. this is entertainment, what you think does not make a difference, so try to have fun with it.

How old are you?

listopencil
05-23-2010, 01:08 PM
either way you are supposed to be a fan of this team


And there you go. That's exactly what causes the board to be split into groups.

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 01:10 PM
Rhymes, when Shanny was here you were all super-Bronco, Shanny could do no wrong, have faith in Shanny, in Shanny I trust, all that.

As soon as Shanny was gone, you went 180 degrees the opposite, everything Bronco is stupid, every move is a disaster in the making.

There we go again, trying to paint people into a corner. Trying to separate people into camps. You're either a Shanahan guy or a McDaniels guy. Blah blah blah.

Your statements are grossly false. As they pertain to me, anyways. All I've said in this thread is that (1) I dislike Kyle Orton and (2) I'm unsure how our draft picks will pan out.

In fact, I'm more than willing to give McDaniels the benefit of the doubt as he builds this team around his vision. My qualm isn't with McDaniels. I just think we need better players at certain positions. That won't happen overnight. As I said, we are in a rebuilding mode. I don't think Kyle Orton is the answer to our QB situation. I simply do not think he's very good. I think we have question marks at a lot of places, and we won't know until September the answers to those questions.

Not once in this thread did I call anything a disaster. I did not say our draft picks were busts or anything along those lines. All I said was that I'm not ready to proclaim that we've upgraded positions when the rooks haven't played a down of NFL football. I think that's a reasonable take on the situation.

The fact is, after a hot start we finished the season 2-8 last year. You'll have to excuse me if I don't think that one offseason is going to turn that around. Do I hope I'm wrong? Sure. I'm just not going to sit here and say that we're going to be world beaters next year. I'm not anti McDaniels, not by a long shot. I just don't think we have the personnel right now. And I don't think we can get that kind of personnel in one offseason. If I gave Shanny any extra benefit of the doubt, it was because the guy was a tenured coach who had won Super Bowls. But again, this isn't about Shanny vs. McD. We need better players. Hopefully this year's draft was a good start. But I want to see them on the field before I make any judgments. As of right now, they're unknown. Hence, I don't consider them "upgrades" yet. That does not mean I think they're disasters.

listopencil
05-23-2010, 01:19 PM
There we go again, trying to paint people into a corner. Trying to separate people into camps. You're either a Shanahan guy or a McDaniels guy. Blah blah blah.



Yes, I agree completely. I thought this had died off but apparently not. This incredibly arrogant and naive notion that any negative comments about the team come from some defect in the character of the poster. It looks to me like a way of brushing aside honest critique without consideration by attacking the poster instead of the ideas they are presenting.

tsiguy96
05-23-2010, 01:22 PM
And there you go. That's exactly what causes the board to be split into groups.

no, the constant whining and crying of people who cant sit back and relax is what does it.

listopencil
05-23-2010, 01:42 PM
no, the constant whining and crying of people who cant sit back and relax is what does it.

No, you being the self appointed Chief of the True Fan police is what does it.

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 01:49 PM
either way you are supposed to be a fan of this team. arguing about how bad they are and why you hate everything thats going to happen doesnt change a damn thing. this is entertainment, what you think does not make a difference, so try to have fun with it.

Listo and Rhymes are correct ... this makes no sense.

It's either 1) "Achtung mein comrade fan-ski!" ... or 2) "try to have fun with it."

Can't have it both ways.

(Btw #2 is the correct answer :thumbs:)

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 01:55 PM
And for the record, I want to state again: I am having fun.

Yeah I don't think our team is going to be great, but just because I'm a Debbie Downer doesn't mean this isn't fun. Watching sports is fun. Playing sports is fun. Talking sports is fun. Anybody who thinks I'm about to slit my wrists simply doesn't know me.

I'm still hitting two Bronco games this year with my Dad and friends, and I'm still going to be glued to the TV every Sunday. Being a fan is about the most fun thing you can do with your pants on, IMO. It doesn't mean I can't be objective and/or critical.

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 02:13 PM
Very unique concept, very nicely done ...

The head shot @ 6:50 is alarmingly realistic, as is the body burst @ 8:30.

Music is incredible too.


Only small gripe I have is that a couple of the guards looked like they might've ad red hair under their helmets.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2010, 02:15 PM
So is it time to throw Orton under the bus yet?

elsid13
05-23-2010, 02:16 PM
So is it time to throw Orton under the bus yet?

I am sure that ones claiming that he was better option then Cutler will be leading the charge.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2010, 02:19 PM
when did you turn into whiny hater?

lets start here, in terms of pure upgrades over last year:
dline
interior oline, which will allow moreno to be better because hes not getting destroyed 3 yards behind the line
wr depth

in terms of players being better in their 2nd year in new system:
QB
doom/ayers

now, where exactly did the team get WORSE?
None of this is proven. It's possible they improved, but just saying it's improved on paper doesn't mean we are better on Sundays.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2010, 02:20 PM
I am sure that ones claiming that he was better option then Cutler will be leading the charge.

Popps and Tsiguy?

SoCalBronco
05-23-2010, 02:26 PM
If I was Orton I would demand a trade and refuse to answer any phone calls from the front office!

The front office isn't leaking inflammatory material designed to trash Orton's reputation, so refusing to answer phone calls wouldn't be justified this time.

footstepsfrom#27
05-23-2010, 02:32 PM
In case anyone is too lazy to click the link....here's a recap:
(You're welcome in advance)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A Broncos source said Orton is not on the trading block.

Based on the Broncos' first offseason practice that was open to the media Monday, any deal involving Orton would be a trade involving their best quarterback.

Orton, meanwhile, carried himself with the type of relaxed, poised demeanor common among established quarterbacks.

Orton was also the most efficient passer of the group.

Kyle Orton has been a very good, very accomplished quarterback in this league for a long time.
You almost had me. Uhh

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 02:34 PM
I am sure that ones claiming that he was better option then Cutler will be leading the charge.Popps and Tsiguy?

http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/film_images/Austin_Danger_Powers_Mike_Myers.jpg

Be-HAVE!

Paladin
05-23-2010, 02:57 PM
*yawn*

Haters hate, then recant. Some are "just saying". Others look to the entire team as a team and see improvement. Others just keep seeing "holes" which allows them to be "just saying" fence riders who seem to hope for disaster.

McD knows this team better than anyone else here. And he knows the team he wants to build an is doing it his way.

It is strange to hear "Fans" want who just b**ch and moan. Maybe losers like these fans don't deserve a winning team.....

Just saying.....

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 02:57 PM
I don't think anybody really believed Orton was "the answer," though some held out hope.

HAT
05-23-2010, 03:05 PM
You almost had me. Uhh

Take it up with Stink...Those are his words, not mine. The full quote:

Said Schlereth: "To me there's not a whole lot of controversy. Kyle Orton has been a very good, very accomplished quarterback in this league for a long time. The problem with Kyle Orton is he's limited athletically. He's got a great arm, but he seems to get an ankle injury or whatever because he doesn't have the athletic ability to get away."

strafen
05-23-2010, 03:11 PM
Exactly.

I knew this was where the conversation would turn. The whole "you want Orton to fail so you'll be right" shtick. The idea that people who dislike Orton (Or McDaniels, etc) want them to fail. That they want the Broncos to fail. It's so, so stupid.

I don't like Orton. I've made it pretty clear. That doesn't mean I wish the guy ill. If he proves me wrong, if he proves that I know nothing about the NFL, I will gladly eat my crow. A huge serving. Because that means the team that I've been supporting since birth was winning. I want to be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I want Orton to lead us to the promised land. Do I see it happening? No. But that doesn't mean that when the lights go on in September I'll be rooting against Orton or this team. I want so badly to be proven wrong. I will always root for the 22 guys on the field, always.

This idea that people who don't support Kyle Orton won't root for the team or will go into a "bigtime depression" is hilarious retarded.Thank you!
That's exactly how I feel.
Orton is not the QB we want to go against Sad Diego or any of the elite teams in the NFL. While SD is not quite an elite team, they're certainly the best team in the AFC West, and until we prove we can beat them consistently, things are going to stay the same.
Orton stats were pretty much padded, a product of the system, a product of high completion percentage of the 4-6 yards variety.
We started the season 1-0 on a fluke play against the bengals last year. Who really knows the ramifications of a loss against Cincy instead of a win. Could had we gone 5-1? Or could have the wheels come off?

Botton line is, we're not that much better off right now than we were last year, even if on paper things may appear otherwise.
We hope we can have a successful season. Having Orton as our starting QB when he's clear NOT QBOTF material, puts us one more year behind in our search for a bona-fide QB of franchise status.
Until that happens, we can't move on and truly find out what we've got in Brandstater, Quinn or Tebow. We already know what we've got in Orton...

elsid13
05-23-2010, 03:13 PM
Let be reasonable with offense line that going to struggle early with all the new faces and rookies, it best that we go with QB that understand the system and is veteran. That means Orton. He is this generation Steve Deberg. Then let him walk and hope for decent compensatory selection.

I very concern with lack of veteran center on this team.

Paladin
05-23-2010, 03:19 PM
when did you turn into whiny hater?

lets start here, in terms of pure upgrades over last year:
dline
interior oline, which will allow moreno to be better because hes not getting destroyed 3 yards behind the line
wr depth

in terms of players being better in their 2nd year in new system:
QB
doom/ayers

now, where exactly did the team get WORSE?

Probleem is that these fools need a hero. Broncos' teams were identified any their QBs over the years. It is that characteristic that lead to the "post-elway partum depression" remark. Know what? Until these fools adopt one of the Broncos as a "hero", they will not see any "upgrade" to the team. None.

Last year, the team was 8-8 and was regarded by many - even some from the this netherland known as the OMane - believed that additons to the Dlne and to the Oline could/might/would make a two or three game difference. Well, McD did that, and these moves were remarked upon around here and elsewhere as cleary steps in the right direction.

Never mind, thouugh, some people just can't get it through their heads that improvements in the team is helpful ot the entire team, because none of the upgrades were the type of names that spelled HERO.

It is terribly ironic that a Sparkies' fan has a nniore mature attitude about the Broncos than the "fans" around here do.......

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 03:45 PM
Probleem is that these fools need a hero. Broncos' teams were identified any their QBs over the years. It is that characteristic that lead to the "post-elway partum depression" remark. Know what? Until these fools adopt one of the Broncos as a "hero", they will not see any "upgrade" to the team. None.

Last year, the team was 8-8 and was regarded by many - even some from the this netherland known as the OMane - believed that additons to the Dlne and to the Oline could/might/would make a two or three game difference. Well, McD did that, and these moves were remarked upon around here and elsewhere as cleary steps in the right direction.

Never mind, thouugh, some people just can't get it through their heads that improvements in the team is helpful ot the entire team, because none of the upgrades were the type of names that spelled HERO.

It is terribly ironic that a Sparkies' fan has a nniore mature attitude about the Broncos than the "fans" around here do.......

Another silly post by somebody looking to defend his position to the death.

Let's talk about the offensive line. Did we need interior line help? Yes, we did. Did we address that in the draft? Yes, we did.

But simply assuming these guys will contribute right away is simply a reach. Again, I loved the picks. I like Josh McDaniels and the direction this team is headed in.

But let's talk 2010 season. It could take a year for these guys to adjust to the NFL game. It could take them a year to truly play as a cohesive unit. Ryan Clady is hurt, which doesn't help the unit's development at all.

Same goes for Demaryius. Could the guy be the next Jerry Rice? Absolutely. Will he necessarily show that in the 2010 season? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think it's totally out of line to say that in the short term we have questions at WR.

I truly don't get why some people get so offended when other people have concerns in the team. Oh, and your "HERO" lines are garbage. If all of us just blindly wanted a "HERO", we'd all be as happy as pigs in **** because Timmy Tebow is a "HERO" to the max.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-23-2010, 03:51 PM
I don't know how you can legitimately look at this roster and say that any of the QBs are a better option going into the season. I just don't understand that in the slightest.

Quinn has been awful. Brandstater couldn't beat out Simms for the 2nd string job last year. And Tebow hasn't played a down. Yet Orton is awful and should be moved?

Just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

SportinOne
05-23-2010, 04:47 PM
And right here is the crux of the Orton debate. Are you high on the team or not. If you are, you want Orton. You think the team is fine, as such, you don't want change. Which makes sense. If you're down on the team, chances are you probably want change, starting with the QB, since that is the marquee position.

I haven't even looked at the schedule yet to analyze, but after our epic collapse last year, what makes you think that we're magically going to win 10 games (or more) this year? We have a middle-of-the-road QB, we have unknowns at RB, WR, and offensive line. We have 2 stars in the defensive secondary but we're still trying to rebuild the defensive front-7, and our special teams have notoriously been bad. And oh yeah, we had a coaching change on defense, to add to the chaos.

We're rebuilding. We're not winning a Super Bowl this year. That's why I'm personally willing to roll the dice with Quinn or hell, even Brandstater. (Even I'm not crazy enough to advocate for Tebow) I don't see Orton leading us anywhere. This has nothing to do with Elway. This has everything to do with Orton's lack of skill. As such, if we are rebuilding and whatnot, I want to see what our options are. I see it as a waste of time to stick to a guy who we know isn't the answer. Is Quinn the answer? I have no idea. But I'm willing to try something new. In fact, I give Quinn the benefit of the doubt since he was in a ****hole like Cleveland to start.

I quoted this like a half hour ago and have come back to the tab forgetting what you wrote, but i remember agreeing.

Second.. Okay, Brady Quinn. Why trade for Quinn when you have Orton and Brandestater? Here are the possibilities:

1. You think he will be your franchise QB someday
2. You are not sure how good he can be, but he is better than Simms and Brandestater as a backup to Orton.
3. You're really not sure, but Charlie Weiss says "Go get 'em" and you are not about to piss off Uncle Charlie.
4. You wanted to get rid of Hillis for "ANYTHING" and it turns out the Browns had the same thought about Quinn.

And the Tebow move:

1. You think he will be your franchise QB someday.

if 1a and 1b cannot coexist,
then 1a can not exist.

**** it, scratch it all.. i don't really buy that there is any method to this madness. McDaniels just likes to make quarterback jambalaya and spit out the malcontents.

HAT
05-23-2010, 05:02 PM
I quoted this like a half hour ago and have come back to the tab forgetting what you wrote, but i remember agreeing.

Why trade for Quinn when you have Orton and Brandestater?


2. You are not sure how good he can be, but he is better than Simms and

To take that a bit farther....

He was also insurance in case they couldn't get Tebow. Let's say the Jags took him at #10....Quinn is not only a better back up than Simms, but he also becomes a stop gap QB himself if Orton walks as FA after 2010.

You'd have a guy with starting experience & a year's experience with Broncos ready to go in 2011 while Brandstater & whatever "QBOTF" you took in the 2011 draft continue to develop.

Hamrob
05-23-2010, 05:08 PM
If I was Orton I would demand a trade and refuse to answer any phone calls from the front office!No you wouldn't...because you don't have enough talent to demand a trade and have anyone want you. Now if you had talent like Jay Cutler you could play that card and get traded to your favorite team who would be willing to give up a fortune to get you!

tsiguy96
05-23-2010, 05:11 PM
@adamschefter Broncos official texted on report Denver had shopped QB Kyle Orton: "Kyle Orton Has NEVER been available or discussed. Ever! Period."

Drek
05-23-2010, 05:17 PM
Another silly post by somebody looking to defend his position to the death.

Let's talk about the offensive line. Did we need interior line help? Yes, we did. Did we address that in the draft? Yes, we did.

But simply assuming these guys will contribute right away is simply a reach. Again, I loved the picks. I like Josh McDaniels and the direction this team is headed in.

But let's talk 2010 season. It could take a year for these guys to adjust to the NFL game. It could take them a year to truly play as a cohesive unit. Ryan Clady is hurt, which doesn't help the unit's development at all.


Except history disagrees with you on this one.

Many second and third round OLs have an impact from day one. That ratio gets even more impressive if you take out OTs and focus just on interior OLs (our need for 2010). Interior OL is one of the safest positions to draft in rounds 2 and 3 if you want immediate production.

Will they definitely pan out? Of course not. But historically speaking four year starter interior OL types taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds are far and away the most statistically likely to succeed, and from day one, over every other draftee in the talent pool.

Teams make deep playoff pushes and title runs with rookies on the OL all the time. Its not a guarantee that we will, but Walton and Beadles from a historical standpoint are probably two of the top ten most likely to contribute at or above a league average starting level in the entire 2010 NFL draft.

I disagree on Doom and Ayers, considering they have a new D Coordinator. Although I really like Doom. And hopefully Ayers gets better in his second year in the league.

Their new D coordinator happens to be their position coach, and we aren't changing defensive systems.

The reason people keep jumping on you in this thread is that you're setting up straw man arguments in order to perpetuate your self described "debbie downer" view.

If you where sticking to the question marks that have merit (like the WR position, prolonged health for our aging secondary most notably Champ, etc.) you'd likely get a generally better quality of debate.

Everyone knows that rookie OLs are a gamble, but they're a lot less of a gamble than rookies at any other position regardless of where you drafted them, and its unlikely that even street FAs could play as bad as Hamilton and Weigman did last year. Everyone knows that changing from Nolan to Martindale could bring its fair share of issues, but the LBs getting the gameplan is probably last on that list. Those are questions that almost every team in the league has to deal with on an annual basis, even the elite teams. If you want to argue why the Broncos are unlikely to succeed in 2010 you should focus on problems unique to the 2010 Broncos that elite teams do not have and this team did not already have last year.

CEH
05-23-2010, 05:30 PM
Making room for more Tebow
Orton may be the starting Qb but he can't sell crap
Save 66 % on an offical Kyle orton jersey
The writing is on the wall for Orton
I bet he's not the starting QB come opening day

http://www.denverbroncosproshop.com/?rc=navigation&rs=broncossite

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 05:33 PM
Except history disagrees with you on this one.

Many second and third round OLs have an impact from day one. That ratio gets even more impressive if you take out OTs and focus just on interior OLs (our need for 2010). Interior OL is one of the safest positions to draft in rounds 2 and 3 if you want immediate production.

Will they definitely pan out? Of course not. But historically speaking four year starter interior OL types taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds are far and away the most statistically likely to succeed, and from day one, over every other draftee in the talent pool.

Teams make deep playoff pushes and title runs with rookies on the OL all the time. Its not a guarantee that we will, but Walton and Beadles from a historical standpoint are probably two of the top ten most likely to contribute at or above a league average starting level in the entire 2010 NFL draft.



Their new D coordinator happens to be their position coach, and we aren't changing defensive systems.

The reason people keep jumping on you in this thread is that you're setting up straw man arguments in order to perpetuate your self described "debbie downer" view.

If you where sticking to the question marks that have merit (like the WR position, prolonged health for our aging secondary most notably Champ, etc.) you'd likely get a generally better quality of debate.

Everyone knows that rookie OLs are a gamble, but they're a lot less of a gamble than rookies at any other position regardless of where you drafted them, and its unlikely that even street FAs could play as bad as Hamilton and Weigman did last year. Everyone knows that changing from Nolan to Martindale could bring its fair share of issues, but the LBs getting the gameplan is probably last on that list. Those are questions that almost every team in the league has to deal with on an annual basis, even the elite teams. If you want to argue why the Broncos are unlikely to succeed in 2010 you should focus on problems unique to the 2010 Broncos that elite teams do not have and this team did not already have last year.

That's great stuff. I didn't know that. If OL is statistically likely to succeed, surely that changes my opinion. I certainly don't know the history or statistics. But did you notice that your reply was the 69th post in this thread, and it is the only one to bring any kind of substance to the argument?

You say my arguments are bad? I'm getting a poor quality of debate because everybody else has simply said "Yeah you're a bad fan. You hate McDaniels. You're a hater!" And that's complete bull****. I love this team as much as the rest of the people here. I just have concerns with our personnel, that is all. Again, I'm not "hating" on anybody, and I did not say that any of our draft picks were bad or were busts. All I said was, I just want to see them perform before I declare them to be successful upgrades.

tsiguy96
05-23-2010, 05:34 PM
Making room for more Tebow
Orton may be the starting Qb but he can't sell crap
Save 66 % on an offical Kyle orton jersey
The writing is on the wall for Orton
I bet he's not the starting QB come opening day

http://www.denverbroncosproshop.com/?rc=navigation&rs=broncossite

its weird how stuff like this turns out. same thing with cutler, his jerseys went on sale a few days before he was traded. orton wont be traded though.

FireFly
05-23-2010, 06:11 PM
*yawn*

Haters hate, then recant. Some are "just saying". Others look to the entire team as a team and see improvement. Others just keep seeing "holes" which allows them to be "just saying" fence riders who seem to hope for disaster.

McD knows this team better than anyone else here. And he knows the team he wants to build an is doing it his way.

It is strange to hear "Fans" want who just b**ch and moan. Maybe losers like these fans don't deserve a winning team.....

Just saying.....

I have NO problem with fans who bitch and moan, as long as the support there team no matter what once the game starts.

If anything, I rate them higher as fans than the ones who don't seem to care who gets cut/fired/drafted and just think that everything is rosey.

I support the broncos but it is my entitlement as a fan to think that I know better than the coach and if the coach fails to feel smug about the fact that I think I could have done it better :) and then if he succeeds I take satisfaction for the fact that my team is winning!

:peace:

Drek
05-23-2010, 06:27 PM
That's great stuff. I didn't know that. If OL is statistically likely to succeed, surely that changes my opinion. I certainly don't know the history or statistics. But did you notice that your reply was the 69th post in this thread, and it is the only one to bring any kind of substance to the argument?

You say my arguments are bad? I'm getting a poor quality of debate because everybody else has simply said "Yeah you're a bad fan. You hate McDaniels. You're a hater!" And that's complete bull****. I love this team as much as the rest of the people here. I just have concerns with our personnel, that is all. Again, I'm not "hating" on anybody, and I did not say that any of our draft picks were bad or were busts. All I said was, I just want to see them perform before I declare them to be successful upgrades.

I largely agree that a dose of skepticism goes a long ways towards managing the hopes and expectations of sports fans.

I'm not personally calling for your fan card, but most of the arguments you presented where something people will easily attack and disagree with. Is it a shame it took this long for someone to point out the high frequency for immediate success with 2nd and 3rd round interior OLs? Sure is. There is a good reason why interior OL dominates the opening day rookie starters list year after year though despite teams typically avoiding those positions until the 2nd and 3rd rounds though.

I understand your view, its just your choice of points to make as corroboration that I take issue with. I'd like to think that was the case in general in this thread, though I'm doubtful.

Now if we want to talk about things to have doubts about regarding the 2010 Broncos, well, lets go no further than the subject of this very thread, Kyle Orton. Can he take the next step now without his security blanket named Brandon? Can he avoid getting yet another mid-season ankle injury? If the OL actually gives him time to throw can he make defenses respect the deep ball to Bey Bey that is so integral to opening up the short to intermediate routes for Royal and Gaffney/Decker?

Or will he pull a Jake Plummer and **** the bed in royal fashion now that there is a legitimate young replacement waiting in the wings?

Me personally? I think Orton's got more invested in football than Plummer and he's been fighting for a job every day of his career so I don't think he's going to turtle up on us a la Plummer. I also think another year of work in McDaniels system will benefit him, as will an offensive line that though young is actually tailored to our gameplan. I think Moreno is going to break out in a big way in 2010, which will add further assistance to Orton. So what it all will come down to is if Orton himself can prove the doubters wrong and make some big plays without Marshall breaking a half dozen tackles to make it happen.

But THAT is a source for concern.

Or whether or not Martindale is an effective enough game time DC to get the job done. By all accounts he's got the pelts on the wall for his coaching and practice management to be unquestioned. But its a whole 'nother animal when you're playing the chess game on Sundays and nothing really prepares you for it. He needs to win that chess game because we aren't talented enough to just beat up on very many teams. Nolan was a stud at that but got too conservative with the D when the offense stopped giving him points to play with and teams figured out how he was masking our weak DL in run prevention. That is the big question on defense.

The hot start followed by a major slide though? It was a Shanahan hallmark too as of late. It comes from a core similarity the two (Shanahan and McDaniels) share. They're both great game planners. They beat other coaches early because they can out scheme and out coach them while teams are still unsure of what their opposition has. But once there is ample tape out on your team it gets a whole lot harder to just out-coach guys on Sundays, you need to outplay them. Hard to do when you lack talent in key areas.

I'd expect another hot start this year, and if we do everyone is going to get all jacked up like they did last year. But it will almost certainly be followed by some kind of comparative slide.

This team has a real good shot to go 3-1, maybe even 4-0 the first quarter of the season. J'ville, Seattle, and Tennessee are should win games. Indy as an early season upset is also possible since they have a lot of coaching turnover and are historically a slow starter.

But our next four are the Ravens, Jets, Raiders, and 49ers. Three good teams with only one divisional rival that we should beat up on. If the offense hasn't gelled together by then and Martindale isn't over any rookie DC growing pains we'll get the **** kicked out of us. I'd honestly be happy with 2-2 over that stretch.

We then hit the bye at the midway point, one of the nicest positioned byes I think we've had in a while. After that we get KCx2, SD, and the Lambs. I'd like to think we go 3-1 over that stretch, but no worse than 2-2.

To close out the season we have Zona, Oakland, Houston, and SD. Another grouping that I'd expect no worse than 2-2 from, ideally 3-1.

So I'm expecting us to be a 9-7 team that will start out 3-1 and quickly drop to 5-3. But if we click early and actual maintain? I think 11-5 is well within the realm of possibility.

strafen
05-23-2010, 07:03 PM
Making room for more Tebow
Orton may be the starting Qb but he can't sell crap
Save 66 % on an offical Kyle orton jersey
The writing is on the wall for Orton
I bet he's not the starting QB come opening day

http://www.denverbroncosproshop.com/?rc=navigation&rs=broncossiteDang! LOL

Paladin
05-23-2010, 07:13 PM
Except history disagrees with you on this one.

Many second and third round OLs have an impact from day one. That ratio gets even more impressive if you take out OTs and focus just on interior OLs (our need for 2010). Interior OL is one of the safest positions to draft in rounds 2 and 3 if you want immediate production.

Will they definitely pan out? Of course not. But historically speaking four year starter interior OL types taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds are far and away the most statistically likely to succeed, and from day one, over every other draftee in the talent pool.

Teams make deep playoff pushes and title runs with rookies on the OL all the time. Its not a guarantee that we will, but Walton and Beadles from a historical standpoint are probably two of the top ten most likely to contribute at or above a league average starting level in the entire 2010 NFL draft.



Their new D coordinator happens to be their position coach, and we aren't changing defensive systems.

The reason people keep jumping on you in this thread is that you're setting up straw man arguments in order to perpetuate your self described "debbie downer" view.

If you where sticking to the question marks that have merit (like the WR position, prolonged health for our aging secondary most notably Champ, etc.) you'd likely get a generally better quality of debate.

Everyone knows that rookie OLs are a gamble, but they're a lot less of a gamble than rookies at any other position regardless of where you drafted them, and its unlikely that even street FAs could play as bad as Hamilton and Weigman did last year. Everyone knows that changing from Nolan to Martindale could bring its fair share of issues, but the LBs getting the gameplan is probably last on that list. Those are questions that almost every team in the league has to deal with on an annual basis, even the elite teams. If you want to argue why the Broncos are unlikely to succeed in 2010 you should focus on problems unique to the 2010 Broncos that elite teams do not have and this team did not already have last year.

Great post. Rep!

Soince Ort0on has never been offeree anywhere per Shefter's tweet, it would seem McD is smarter than some would have him be.

Paladin
05-23-2010, 07:25 PM
That's great stuff. I didn't know that. If OL is statistically likely to succeed, surely that changes my opinion. I certainly don't know the history or statistics. But did you notice that your reply was the 69th post in this thread, and it is the only one to bring any kind of substance to the argument?

You say my arguments are bad? I'm getting a poor quality of debate because everybody else has simply said "Yeah you're a bad fan. You hate McDaniels. You're a hater!" And that's complete bull****. I love this team as much as the rest of the people here. I just have concerns with our personnel, that is all. Again, I'm not "hating" on anybody, and I did not say that any of our draft picks were bad or were busts. All I said was, I just want to see them perform before I declare them to be successful upgrades.

Poor baby! No where did I say you were a "bad fan", only a slightly misguided one. "Poor quality? Only because your thoughts have swelled your head so much you cannot hear what others are saying. Part of growing up is learning to listen.

nickademus
05-23-2010, 07:32 PM
And right here is the crux of the Orton debate. Are you high on the team or not. If you are, you want Orton. You think the team is fine, as such, you don't want change. Which makes sense. If you're down on the team, chances are you probably want change, starting with the QB, since that is the marquee position.

I haven't even looked at the schedule yet to analyze, but after our epic collapse last year, what makes you think that we're magically going to win 10 games (or more) this year? We have a middle-of-the-road QB, we have unknowns at RB, WR, and offensive line. We have 2 stars in the defensive secondary but we're still trying to rebuild the defensive front-7, and our special teams have notoriously been bad. And oh yeah, we had a coaching change on defense, to add to the chaos.

We're rebuilding. We're not winning a Super Bowl this year. That's why I'm personally willing to roll the dice with Quinn or hell, even Brandstater. (Even I'm not crazy enough to advocate for Tebow) I don't see Orton leading us anywhere. This has nothing to do with Elway. This has everything to do with Orton's lack of skill. As such, if we are rebuilding and whatnot, I want to see what our options are. I see it as a waste of time to stick to a guy who we know isn't the answer. Is Quinn the answer? I have no idea. But I'm willing to try something new. In fact, I give Quinn the benefit of the doubt since he was in a ****hole like Cleveland to start.

this.

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 07:48 PM
Poor baby! No where did I say you were a "bad fan", only a slightly misguided one. "Poor quality? Only because your thoughts have swelled your head so much you cannot hear what others are saying. Part of growing up is learning to listen.

Maybe you need to listen (or in this case read). I never said anything about you.

Or are you feeling guilty and thus assuming I did?

What was that part about growing up?

strafen
05-23-2010, 07:56 PM
Is Quinn the answer? I have no idea. But I'm willing to try something new. In fact, I give Quinn the benefit of the doubt since he was in a ****hole like Cleveland to start.I hope Quinn can show he can win the job.
I'm not going to discard the guy yet. He was in Cleveland not known for anything great in football or in any sport for that matter.
I think it was not the best situation for him.
I remember Plummer being with the Cardinals. The guy has some good skills to play QB, but his team sucked.
He came to Denver and his career looked promising for a while when he finally got surrounded with talented players at almost every position.

Quinn could be in the same situation, at least with a team that while not quite there yet, is many times better than Cleveland...

Brandstater, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to compete this year. He probably knows the playbook as good as anybody, so his own physical abilities could dictate his position with the team in TC.

Tebow? well, I don't even know what to think. There have been 1st year QB's start in the NFL, so that's not a problem. Sanchez and Stafford started last year. Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco both had success in their first year as starters.
So, is Tebow better than at least a couple of those guys? Yes.
Is our team better than at least two of those teams? Yes.

Can Tebow start this year?
I think we will know the answer to that in TC.
If he learns the playbook, he could start. I think he's the best athletic gifted of all the QB's we've got...

no-pseudo-fan
05-23-2010, 08:03 PM
I don't care who the starter is...I just want to win.

Tebow is going to get some plays, Orton even if he starts has shown an ability to get injuried during the year. So we will see.

nickademus
05-23-2010, 08:04 PM
I dont have faith in Orton being anything other than he was the last half of the season. he will have some good games and some really bad ones (KC) but he will never be the reason we win and could very well be the reason we loose alot. I would give quinn a shot see what you have and then go from there. now if mcd thinks this team is a sb team and qinn is to unknown to take a chance on then keep orton I dissagree but otherwise what is the point to having him here?

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 08:14 PM
historically speaking four year starter interior OL types taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds are far and away the most statistically likely to succeed, and from day one, over every other draftee in the talent pool.

I love this ... I'm more and more confident JD Walton is going to come in here and, barring injury, start every game for years to come. He's was a three-year starter, not four (transferred), but never missed a game, and somehow managed to make AP 1st team All-American ... not easy for a Baylor kid with Pouncey in the field.

Check this out ... he was "speechless" when the Broncos called: http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/042410aab.html

strafen
05-23-2010, 08:28 PM
I love this ... I'm more and more confident JD Walton is going to come in here and, barring injury, start every game for years to come. He's was a three-year starter, not four (transferred), but never missed a game, and somehow managed to make AP 1st team All-American ... not easy for a Baylor kid with Pouncey in the field.

Check this out ... he was "speechless" when the Broncos called: http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/042410aab.htmlHe's probably the best center on the team. He will get the starting job almost by default.
We have traditionally had solid players to play center in our team history; Keith Kartz, Dan Neil and Tom Nalen comes to mind. That's about 25+ years with only 3 centers to man the position during that time span.

gunns
05-23-2010, 08:32 PM
Trading Orton would be a bad mistake. But for some around here, thinking is that activity that exists to justify the conclusions already reached through other means, mainly through ostrich-emmulating denial of facts. It is amazing that some around here are still in post-Elway partum depression. The MSM continues to hammer at their "ideas" about how the team should be built, and some around here believe that crap. I should think people ewould watch and see what transpires.

I do not think trading Orton would help McD in his efforts to develop the team, nor give the team the best chance to win. Yeah, I'd go with the guy who has won some NFL games. Maybe the others will learn as the season progresses. With Orton, I'd see 10+ wins this year. With anyone else at QB, I'd see no more than 8......

The "post-Elway" crap has become a game of mirrors for those who can't quite support their point. It's been 11 years and wouldn't change the fact that Orton is taking us nowhere. It isn't the media, it's watching his play. If you see Orton giving us 10+ wins this season, where do you buy your rose colored glasses? No, I don't see any of our QB's giving us a 10+ wins this season and if one does, it's probably the same reason Orton got 7 wins last season, the rest of the team. Then any of the QB's could have gotten them.

gunns
05-23-2010, 08:38 PM
either way you are supposed to be a fan of this team. Arguing about how bad they are and why you hate everything thats going to happen doesnt change a damn thing. This is entertainment, what you think does not make a difference, so try to have fun with it.

Fan patrol alert! Attennnnntion!

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 08:39 PM
Did you notice that your reply was the 69th post in this thread, and it is the only one to bring any kind of substance to the argument?

Drek has a knack for that. Often when threads reaches a crescendo of cacophonous babbling, he'll show up and re-focus things, usually with solid info. And I definitely agree it's good to see an historical perspective on the success of rookie interior O-linemen ... especially this year.

hambone13
05-23-2010, 08:41 PM
And right here is the crux of the Orton debate. Are you high on the team or not. If you are, you want Orton. You think the team is fine, as such, you don't want change. Which makes sense. If you're down on the team, chances are you probably want change, starting with the QB, since that is the marquee position.

I haven't even looked at the schedule yet to analyze, but after our epic collapse last year, what makes you think that we're magically going to win 10 games (or more) this year? We have a middle-of-the-road QB, we have unknowns at RB, WR, and offensive line. We have 2 stars in the defensive secondary but we're still trying to rebuild the defensive front-7, and our special teams have notoriously been bad. And oh yeah, we had a coaching change on defense, to add to the chaos.

We're rebuilding. We're not winning a Super Bowl this year. That's why I'm personally willing to roll the dice with Quinn or hell, even Brandstater. (Even I'm not crazy enough to advocate for Tebow) I don't see Orton leading us anywhere. This has nothing to do with Elway. This has everything to do with Orton's lack of skill. As such, if we are rebuilding and whatnot, I want to see what our options are. I see it as a waste of time to stick to a guy who we know isn't the answer. Is Quinn the answer? I have no idea. But I'm willing to try something new. In fact, I give Quinn the benefit of the doubt since he was in a ****hole like Cleveland to start.

Here's the Schedule:

2010 REGULAR SEASON SCHEDULE (home games in caps)
WEEK DAY DATE OPPONENT SITE TIME/RESULT TV/REC
1 Sun Sep.12 at Jacksonville Jacksonville Municipal Stadium 1:00 PM EDT CBS
2 Sun Sep.19 VS. SEATTLE INVESCO Field at Mile High 2:05 PM MDT FOX
3 Sun Sep.26 VS. INDIANAPOLIS INVESCO Field at Mile High 2:15 PM MDT CBS
4 Sun Oct. 3 at Tennessee LP Field 12:00 PM CDT CBS
5 Sun Oct.10 at Baltimore M&T Bank Stadium 1:00 PM EDT CBS
6 Sun Oct.17 VS. NEW YORK INVESCO Field at Mile High 2:05 PM MDT CBS
7 Sun Oct.24 VS. OAKLAND INVESCO Field at Mile High 2:15 PM MDT CBS
8 Sun Oct.31 at San Francisco Wembley Stadium (London) 5:00 PM GMT CBS
9 BYE WEEK
10 Sun Nov.14 VS. KANSAS CITY INVESCO Field at Mile High 2:05 PM MST CBS
11 Mon Nov.22 at San Diego Qualcomm Stadium 5:30 PM PST ESPN
12 Sun Nov.28 VS. ST. LOUIS INVESCO Field at Mile High 2:15 PM MST FOX
13 Sun Dec. 5 at Kansas City Arrowhead Stadium 12:00 PM CST CBS
14 Sun Dec.12 at Arizona University of Phoenix Stadium 2:15 PM MST CBS
15 Sun Dec.19 at Oakland Oakland Coliseum 1:15 PM PST CBS
16 Sun Dec.26 VS. HOUSTON INVESCO Field at Mile High 2:05 PM MST CBS
17 Sun Jan. 2 VS. SAN DIEGO INVESCO Field at Mile High 2:15 PM MST CBS

gunns
05-23-2010, 08:41 PM
*yawn*

Haters hate, then recant. Some are "just saying". Others look to the entire team as a team and see improvement. Others just keep seeing "holes" which allows them to be "just saying" fence riders who seem to hope for disaster.

McD knows this team better than anyone else here. And he knows the team he wants to build an is doing it his way.

It is strange to hear "Fans" want who just b**ch and moan. Maybe losers like these fans don't deserve a winning team.....

Just saying.....

Tsi change his user name? Or do we have another one?

Poor baby! No where did I say you were a "bad fan", only a slightly misguided one. "Poor quality? Only because your thoughts have swelled your head so much you cannot hear what others are saying. Part of growing up is learning to listen.

Do you anticipate doing this soon?

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 08:49 PM
He's probably the best center on the team. He will get the starting job almost by default.

Glad to hear some agreement on that. Couple days ago some joker told me Dustin Fry had the inside track. Yeah, like he's gonna break through with us, his third team in three years ... hmmm...

RhymesayersDU
05-23-2010, 08:51 PM
at Jacksonville L
VS. SEATTLE W
VS. INDIANAPOLIS L
at Tennessee L
at Baltimore L
VS. NEW YORK W
VS. OAKLAND W
at San Francisco W
VS. KANSAS CITY W
at San Diego L
VS. ST. LOUIS W
at Kansas City L
at Arizona W
at Oakland W
VS. HOUSTON L
VS. SAN DIEGO L

My ridiculously early prediction. 8-8. I actually do kind of like how our schedule pans out though. I still don't like Orton, BUT my view may be changed. This may not actually be a throw-away season after all. I see 3 games (@Jax, @KC, Houston) that I marked as losses that could be wins.

After all this, I still have concerns with the team, but I actually like our schedule. I need to figure out what games I'm going to.

Edit: That late AZ/Oakland road trip will probably make or break. Both winnable games, but road games are a bitch.

gyldenlove
05-23-2010, 08:55 PM
I love this ... I'm more and more confident JD Walton is going to come in here and, barring injury, start every game for years to come. He's was a three-year starter, not four (transferred), but never missed a game, and somehow managed to make AP 1st team All-American ... not easy for a Baylor kid with Pouncey in the field.

Check this out ... he was "speechless" when the Broncos called: http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/042410aab.html

Walton is the business, the head coach at Baylor called him the best offensive lineman he had and that was the year that Jason Smith went 12th overall.

I hope we have a good offensive line coach because we have a lot of young talent now that need coaching.

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 09:00 PM
Haters hate, then recant. Some are "just saying". Others look to the entire team as a team and see improvement. Others just keep seeing "holes" which allows them to be "just saying" fence riders who seem to hope for disaster.

It is strange to hear "Fans" want who just b**ch and moan. Maybe losers like these fans don't deserve a winning team.....

Just saying.....

Hahaha ... very clever, "just saying."

Kinda strange you choose to spend so much time analyzing the form and intent of the "haters" posts ... to me it seems like a REAL fan would have better things to post about.

Crushaholic
05-23-2010, 09:06 PM
Multiple NFL sources say the Broncos let it be known this offseason that Orton was available. Perhaps that time has passed. A Broncos source said Orton is not on the trading block

There you go. The thread title is misleading. What I read, Orton was trying to get everybody on the same page, like a leader should...

BigPlayShay
05-23-2010, 09:15 PM
FWIW:

Adam_Schefter: Broncos official texted on report Denver had shopped QB Kyle Orton: "Kyle Orton Has NEVER been available or discussed. Ever! Period."

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/status/14586911947

tsiguy96
05-23-2010, 09:16 PM
i think when they say he was available for trade, someone called and said is he available, broncos say "what are you offering" and of course they dont offer what denver wants. so they didnt immediately shoot down trade talks and thus is available for the right price (like 98% of players in the NFL)

montrose
05-23-2010, 09:19 PM
I still think Orton gives us the best chance to win games, at least to begin the 2010 season.

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 09:43 PM
More on Adam's page:

RT @JayPolzer: Orton's jersey is on sale for $20 at broncos team store. Maybe it's true ... Might be. Just passing on what's passed to me. about 5 hours ago via UberTwitter

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

Paladin
05-23-2010, 09:55 PM
Tsi change his user name? Or do we have another one?



Do you anticipate doing this soon?

Lady, I am already older than most here. I have been retired for a number of years, now. Whippersnappers like you are a dime a dozen......

Try not being a snot. This ain't your issue, babykins.....

strafen
05-23-2010, 10:27 PM
I still think Orton gives us the best chance to win games, at least to begin the 2010 season.Hmm?!
We traded for Quinn and we drafted Tebow...

hambone13
05-23-2010, 10:31 PM
I won't be excited about it at all, but if he is the starter I'll be rooting for him. Just like last year.

It cracks me up when the McPiranah come into the fold, drama is mandatory, expected and tolerated. To express and/or mention a potentially valid concern is like talking about the earth being spherical with the Vatican back in the day.

hambone13
05-23-2010, 10:33 PM
so teh team won more games than you expected last year after you spent all offseason whining about how bad (top 5 pick!!) this team is, yet you are doing it again this offseason after there has been several upgrades all over the team....makes sense.

It doesn't matter how objectively one expresses their concern w/ the McPiranah, they always come out to feed if you're not in their river of eternal optimism.

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 10:33 PM
Hmm?!
We traded for Quinn and we drafted Tebow...

He's correct ... he said "to begin."

Tebow's gonna be raw ... and Quinn? Well, despite the happy talk outta Dove Valley, Quinn is still a 1st-rounder who washed out in his home town, after they paid a king's ransom to get him. So I agree with montrose.

Archer81
05-23-2010, 10:40 PM
It doesn't matter how objectively one expresses their concern w/ the McPiranah, they always come out to feed if you're not in their river of eternal optimism.


Every team has drama. Our drama happens to be nationally broadcasted and disected. I tolerate the nonsense because the team is moving forward. If we did not win with the all world talent of Cutler-Marshall-Scheffler-Hillis then start over with players with equal talent to the clown quartet (blasphemy for some to say that) and better attitudes.

Nate Jackson bitching about how his release was handled...well...kudos to him for getting back at the lil napoleon for cutting the greatest TE since Chad Mustard. What would he have preferred? A certified letter, a bouquet of flowers and a singing telegram? He made a large sum of money doing nothing to earn it. Suck it up and move on, Mr Jackson.

:Broncos:

SoCalBronco
05-23-2010, 10:51 PM
Every team has drama. Our drama happens to be nationally broadcasted and disected. I tolerate the nonsense because the team is moving forward. If we did not win with the all world talent of Cutler-Marshall-Scheffler-Hillis then start over with players with equal talent to the clown quartet (blasphemy for some to say that) and better attitudes.

Nate Jackson b****ing about how his release was handled...well...kudos to him for getting back at the lil napoleon for cutting the greatest TE since Chad Mustard. What would he have preferred? A certified letter, a bouquet of flowers and a singing telegram? He made a large sum of money doing nothing to earn it. Suck it up and move on, Mr Jackson.

:Broncos:

You have to admit....a singing telegram would be really classy.

It's also disingenuous to suggest that he never did anything to earn his money. Back in 2003, Nate Jackson dressed up as Santa Clause for Eddie Mac's kids. Perhaps if Josh allowed him to stay on the roster, he could play Santa Clause for Eric Decker's kids one day.

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 10:53 PM
Every team has drama. Our drama happens to be nationally broadcasted and disected. I tolerate the nonsense because the team is moving forward. If we did not win with the all world talent of Cutler-Marshall-Scheffler-Hillis then start over with players with equal talent to the clown quartet (blasphemy for some to say that) and better attitudes.

Nate Jackson b****ing about how his release was handled...well...kudos to him for getting back at the lil napoleon for cutting the greatest TE since Chad Mustard. What would he have preferred? A certified letter, a bouquet of flowers and a singing telegram? He made a large sum of money doing nothing to earn it. Suck it up and move on, Mr Jackson.

:Broncos:

Guys, feel free to take this opinion with a grain of salt ...

Chris has never even heard of the song 'Bette Davis Eyes.'

Isn't that sad? ;)

strafen
05-23-2010, 10:53 PM
He's correct ... he said "to begin."

Tebow's gonna be raw ... and Quinn? Well, despite the happy talk outta Dove Valley, Quinn is still a 1st-rounder who washed out in his home town, after they paid a king's ransom to get him. So I agree with montrose.

My point is, while montrose has a good point, you have to wonder if McDaniels is set on starting Orton again this season...

Orton is the starter as of now. It's way too early to make a call otherwise.

Quinn will get his chance and he in my opinion is the odds on favorite to dethrone Orton.
Tebow has an outside chance and could come from behind to take it.
So far in this mini-camp, the QB depth chart based on the numbers and order of reps they've been getting, is like this:
Orton, Quinn, Brandy and Tebow

The only advantage Orton has over the other QB's is that he's been in the system a year, and knows the plays -albeit the short game part of it-

Quinn could be argued to also know the playbook or at least his familiarity with the system having played for Weiss at ND and Crennel/Mangini in Cleveland.

So, it comes down to who picks up and master the system enough to be the starter. All 3 QB's; Tebow, Quinn and Brandstater all have far more athletic abilities than Orton by a longshot.
I think that's what McD was looking for when he went shopping for another QB; somebody more mobile who can learn his system.

I wouldn't however, discard Tebow getting some playing time in 3rd and 1 or short-and-goal type situations. He'll be getting some playing time that way, and gradually earning more playing time as he goes...

BTW, 4 days of passing mini-camp starts again tomorrow. This one could yield some spicier news coming out of Dove Valley ;)

hambone13
05-23-2010, 10:56 PM
Last year it was really annoying around here because of the two camps. The one camp that wanted to be right so bad that it seemed like they were rooting against the team, and the camp that had the attitude that anybody who did not like the offseason moves were rooting against the team. It was very annoying that when I, or anybody else who questioned the moves, were accused of rooting against the team.

Like you, I wanted them to prove me wrong, and I was doing back flips through the first 6 games when they were totally proving me wrong. That may be the only time I was overjoyed to be wrong. Well we know how that turned out. I was pretty pissed to somewhat be proven right in the end.

I don't see this team as being very competitive this year, but I will be rooting for that. Just because I want them to win 10 games doesn't mean that I'm going to act like it's bound to happen. It's not a solid argument.

Well stated. There is not a solid argument to blind homerism. It's becoming more and more rare that anyone would even want to post something opposing the McPiranah. It's like the Mane isn't a discussion board any more, it's an insult board where, if you're not paying your dues to the McRegime, you're not invited and the drinks and food are not really free....it's just attack time.

If one posts something positive, then you get Pope-esque praises for your brilliant spin on the "possibilities and potential".

I agree that many of my posts can be perceived as "inflammatory" and "berating". However, the same tactics are constantly adhered to around here, for anything that's not positive towards the McD regime. Once a point is made, move on and say something towards the thread that is specific and unique to the thread.

We're not in control of the team. We're not on the team. We're observing the team and how it's run. At times, this place feels like a high school cafeteria where all the perceived, "cools kids" stand in the middle of the room and talk sh*t about everyone else that is there because it's not what they think. At least have a little bit of respect for the whole of the ideas someone is trying to convey and respond intelligently and uniquely to them.

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 11:00 PM
Well stated. There is not a solid argument to blind homerism. It's becoming more and more rare that anyone would even want to post something opposing the McPiranah. It's like the Mane isn't a discussion board any more, it's an insult board where, if you're not paying your dues to the McRegime, you're not invited and the drinks and food are not really free....it's just attack time.

If one posts something positive, then you get Pope-esque praises for your brilliant spin on the "possibilities and potential".

I agree that many of my posts can be perceived as "inflammatory" and "berating". However, the same tactics are constantly adhered to around here, for anything that's not positive towards the McD regime. Once a point is made, move on and say something towards the thread that is specific and unique to the thread.

We're not in control of the team. We're not on the team. We're observing the team and how it's run. At times, this place feels like a high school cafeteria where all the perceived, "cools kids" stand in the middle of the room and talk sh*t about everyone else that is there because it's not what they think. At least have a little bit of respect for the whole of the ideas someone is trying to convey and respond intelligently and uniquely to them.

For a guy who's taken a lot of incoming fire recently, that is a damn good post hambone.

Archer81
05-23-2010, 11:01 PM
Guys, feel free to take this opinion with a grain of salt ...

Chris has never even heard of the song 'Bette Davis Eyes.'

Isn't that sad? ;)


Totally. Lets iggie him.


:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 11:01 PM
Last year it was really annoying around here because of the two camps. The one camp that wanted to be right so bad that it seemed like they were rooting against the team, and the camp that had the attitude that anybody who did not like the offseason moves were rooting against the team.

Best, most even-handed capsule descrtiption of this entire ordeal yet.

montrose
05-23-2010, 11:02 PM
More on Adam's page:

RT @JayPolzer: Orton's jersey is on sale for $20 at broncos team store. Maybe it's true ... Might be. Just passing on what's passed to me. about 5 hours ago via UberTwitter

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

So is Knowshon's, they overordered a year ago and need to get them out (I bought a Moreno one and that's what the store manager told me).

Hmm?!
We traded for Quinn and we drafted Tebow...

Basically piggybacking of what Buff said, I think the Broncos view at least Tebow and possibly Quinn as upgrades over Orton - at some point. My best assumption is that the Broncos wanted Quinn a year ago and again this year because they saw him as a talented fit with experience in this offense. When they got Quinn, I don't think they had any intention of drafting Tebow (or it at least wasn't a very high priority). I'm guessing they viewed Quinn (like I did) as a guy who at the least was an upgrade over Simms as the #2 and could even push Orton, and at the most could realize his potential with some coaching. While doing their draft prep, I think the Broncos fell in love with Tebow and had to have him. That's just my speculation of how things played out.

But as of now, while Orton may be the most physically limited, I think he gives us the best shot to win games at least to begin 2010. Tebow's a rookie, it's hard enough to adjust to the pro game, but he's also learning to play a somewhat different style with a refined motion. It makes sense that Quinn would play better in this offense, but we haven't seen him take a single snap with the Broncos. Meanwhile, Orton had a pretty decent season last year (3800 yds, 21 TD-to-12 INT, 62% comp.) in his first of this year offense with a bum index finger on his throwing hand, bad ankle and crap OL. Now Orton has him limitations physically (and mentally quite honestly, he doesn't compute things very quickly although that should be a bit better year two of the scheme), and he may have the worst long-term potential of any of the 4 QBs. With that, he's the closest thing to a sure thing we've got right now and I (unless he crumbles under the pressure like Plummer in 06) wouldn't be suprised if he plays better than last year, this season. I wouldn't be suprised by anything, and I hope all 4 of the QBs are great as long as they're Broncos - but I think Orton's our best bet, for now.

strafen
05-23-2010, 11:03 PM
Well stated. There is not a solid argument to blind homerism. It's becoming more and more rare that anyone would even want to post something opposing the McPiranah. It's like the Mane isn't a discussion board any more, it's an insult board where, if you're not paying your dues to the McRegime, you're not invited and the drinks and food are not really free....it's just attack time.

If one posts something positive, then you get Pope-esque praises for your brilliant spin on the "possibilities and potential".

I agree that many of my posts can be perceived as "inflammatory" and "berating". However, the same tactics are constantly adhered to around here, for anything that's not positive towards the McD regime. Once a point is made, move on and say something towards the thread that is specific and unique to the thread.

We're not in control of the team. We're not on the team. We're observing the team and how it's run. At times, this place feels like a high school cafeteria where all the perceived, "cools kids" stand in the middle of the room and talk sh*t about everyone else that is there because it's not what they think. At least have a little bit of respect for the whole of the ideas someone is trying to convey and respond intelligently and uniquely to them.

I couldn't said better myself. I'm opinionated when it comes down to some of the moves made last year or any moves I see as a bad moves.

That doesn't mean I'm a hater or root against my own team.
I've been attacked mercilessly because of that. This board is pro-Mcdaniels all the way, and like you've said it, if you don't say anything positive about McDaniels, run for cover because they'll come after you...

Paladin
05-23-2010, 11:03 PM
Your post is laughable on so many levels. Let me help you out by summarizing the issues around your jaundiced, critical and neative points of view.

First RDU wrote, "Orton Sucks". Now I don't htink that meets any level of critical analysis based on any level of critical thinking. I challenged that the team with Orton could win 10+ games, and RDU went near ballistic and could not see any situation where the other team improvemnets could lead to 10 wins and especially he thought the rookie Olinemen would be of no use to the team this year, and that there had been no improvements...... Drek changed that with his excellent post. I said that much of the issue with the Cynics is that they spend too much time focusing on the QB position, hence the Post -Elway stuff.

Ms gunns was so out of touch with what I was saying that she seemed lost in her powder room.

I do not think you hambust, have met McD personally, nor do I think you have a freaking clue as to what he is trying to accomplish with the team. Hence, you use colorful, childish, juvenile and literaly stupid epithets to refer to McD. This tells me that you are likely still butt hurt over Cutler, Sheffler, Marshall and/or Hillis. That forms your opinion. Not great at analysis, are you? Not great at paying attention, are you? You want to call out those who are more of a "wait and see" team supporters then to think about what may actually be happening with the team.

I don't care if you like the Broncos or not. I don't care if you follow them or not. I follow them because it is entertainment. And I have done so for nearly 50 years.

I have become mostly innured to the cynical, crass and childish blatherings of many of the Cynics here. But to just say that "Orton Sucks" is really dumb and flies in the face of actual data and information about his performance to date. There is some indication that his performance next year can be better than last years' and I will leave it to you to figure out why, if you can get up any shred of thinking skills. Even if the team goes 10 - 6 or even better, I am sure RDU and other cynics around here will still focus on the QB position and live or die on how many times they can b**ch and moan about the play of Orton, or who ever is the QB.

Yep, Ms. gunns, the issue is that the QB is not the hero that cynics would like. And whether you wan to admit it or not, Elway is the standard.....

hambone13
05-23-2010, 11:03 PM
Rhymes, when Shanny was here you were all super-Bronco, Shanny could do no wrong, have faith in Shanny, in Shanny I trust, all that.

As soon as Shanny was gone, you went 180 degrees the opposite, everything Bronco is stupid, every move is a disaster in the making.

McPiranha ATTACK!!!! Read his entire posts, you might see some objectivity.

hambone13
05-23-2010, 11:12 PM
And there you go. That's exactly what causes the board to be split into groups.

Precisely. However, you don't spend nearly as much time talking about the entirety of someones statements as you might develop into. The attack, based on the premise that it doesn't agree with your uber-fandomonious perspective, is still in question. You, and many of the McPiranha Clan, have a tendency to react w/o recognizing there are objective realities stated in the posts. You act like we're making "Mock-like" statements when there is arguably more meat. To be compared to Mock's informational insignificance, is just insulting and causes the "trolling", of which many of the killer fish seem to hate to endure.

Archer81
05-23-2010, 11:14 PM
I couldn't said better myself. I'm opinionated when it comes down to some of the moves made last year or any moves I see as a bad moves.

That doesn't mean I'm a hater or root against my own team.
I've been attacked mercilessly because of that. This board is pro-Mcdaniels all the way, and like you've said it, if you don't say anything positive about McDaniels, run for cover because they'll come after you...

This board is pro-Broncos all the way. Is it really a surprise that fans would support the coach of their team? And this post screams of hysteria. No one is going to come after you because you have a misinformed opinion of the HC. Its a chatboard, giggles. Grow a set and deal with the ribbing.

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
05-23-2010, 11:16 PM
So is Knowshon's, they overordered a year ago and need to get them out (I bought a Moreno one and that's what the store manager told me).

This makes sense ... with people setting all-time sales records for Tebow jerseys , there must be an insane surplus of Kyle Orton.

Although $20 is very very low. Kevin Durant jerseys were $20 here in Seattle ... TWO MONTHS after they announced the move to OKC!

montrose
05-23-2010, 11:17 PM
Best, most even-handed capsule descrtiption of this entire ordeal yet.

What's interesting is that, as a "Pro McD/Xanders guy" myself, I often feel the exact opposite way. It's probably a bit human nature to feel that you're in the minority. Between some of the boards moderators and most frequent posters, it can be frusturating to post positivly about the team before something comes up about the mistake of dealing "insert player here", or why the long snapper was changed, or how the coach is somehow linked to Spygate, or the worst draft pick in Bronco history of Alphonso Smith. Hell anytime a move is made, Kaylore or Apa and I will talk on the phone about how funny it'll be to go on the Mane and see the site implode because it hates everything McDaniels and Xanders do.

While posters that don't like or even disagree on some points of the administration may think this a "Pro McD" board, I would be willing to bet those on the other side think of this as an "Anti McD" board. It's human nature.

strafen
05-23-2010, 11:17 PM
Precisely. However, you don't spend nearly as much time talking about the entirety of someones statements as you might develop into. The attack, based on the premise that it doesn't agree with your uber-fandomonious perspective, is still in question. You, and many of the McPiranha Clan, have a tendency to react w/o recognizing there are objective realities stated in the posts. You act like we're making "Mock-like" statements when there is arguably more meat. To be compared to Mock's informational insignificance, is just insulting and causes the "trolling", of which many of the killer fish seem to hate to endure.Good post!
Rep!

montrose
05-23-2010, 11:18 PM
This makes sense ... with people setting all-time sales records for Tebow jerseys , there must be an insane surplus of Kyle Orton.

And that was before the trade for Quinn, let alone drafting Tebow. Funny thing is that the Simms jersey is the same $20, lol.

hambone13
05-23-2010, 11:19 PM
*yawn*

Haters hate, then recant. Some are "just saying". Others look to the entire team as a team and see improvement. Others just keep seeing "holes" which allows them to be "just saying" fence riders who seem to hope for disaster.

McD knows this team better than anyone else here. And he knows the team he wants to build an is doing it his way.

It is strange to hear "Fans" want who just b**ch and moan. Maybe losers like these fans don't deserve a winning team.....

Just saying.....

Yaaaawn. Classic Paladin. I guess McD has already earned your respect because he made it in his career to the "Head Coach" position. It's happened many times before and more often than not, was a failure.

strafen
05-23-2010, 11:21 PM
What's interesting is that, as a "Pro McD/Xanders guy" myself, I often feel the exact opposite way. It's probably a bit human nature to feel that you're in the minority. Between some of the boards moderators and most frequent posters, it can be frusturating to post positivly about the team before something comes up about the mistake of dealing "insert player here", or why the long snapper was changed, or how the coach is somehow linked to Spygate, or the worst draft pick in Bronco history of Alphonso Smith. Hell anytime a move is made, Kaylore or Apa and I will talk on the phone about how funny it'll be to go on the Mane and see the site implode because it hates everything McDaniels and Xanders do.

While ones we would that don't like or even disagree on some points of the administration may think this a "Pro McD" board, I would be willing to bet those on the other side think of this as an "Anti McD" board.Haha!
Nice, man.
Yeah, it could go both ways. But that's why we all have the right to agree and disagree. At the end of the day, we all hope to be proven wrong with our team having some success... ^5

strafen
05-23-2010, 11:23 PM
This makes sense ... with people setting all-time sales records for Tebow jerseys , there must be an insane surplus of Kyle Orton.



You'd think? Ha!

hambone13
05-23-2010, 11:28 PM
Another silly post by somebody looking to defend his position to the death.

Let's talk about the offensive line. Did we need interior line help? Yes, we did. Did we address that in the draft? Yes, we did.

But simply assuming these guys will contribute right away is simply a reach. Again, I loved the picks. I like Josh McDaniels and the direction this team is headed in.

But let's talk 2010 season. It could take a year for these guys to adjust to the NFL game. It could take them a year to truly play as a cohesive unit. Ryan Clady is hurt, which doesn't help the unit's development at all.

Same goes for Demaryius. Could the guy be the next Jerry Rice? Absolutely. Will he necessarily show that in the 2010 season? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think it's totally out of line to say that in the short term we have questions at WR.

I truly don't get why some people get so offended when other people have concerns in the team. Oh, and your "HERO" lines are garbage. If all of us just blindly wanted a "HERO", we'd all be as happy as pigs in **** because Timmy Tebow is a "HERO" to the max.

Agreed. That's the thing i don't get about the McPiranah around here. If you don't make a stats driven thesis about your position and if you don't agree with the general McPopulation of homers, you're not providing enough information to to justify why one might have a McDifferent opinion. Who organizes themselves, on a message board, so collectively to change their own identities to make a point? If that doesn't independently suggest blind homerness, I can't imagine what would.

Archer81
05-23-2010, 11:37 PM
Agreed. That's the thing i don't get about the McPiranah around here. If you don't make a stats driven thesis about your position and if you don't agree with the general McPopulation of homers, you're not providing enough information to to justify why one might have a McDifferent opinion. Who organizes themselves, on a message board, so collectively to change their own identities to make a point? If that doesn't independently suggest blind homerness, I can't imagine what would.


The Mc in front of everything weakens the point you are attempting to make.



:Broncos:

hambone13
05-23-2010, 11:38 PM
I don't know how you can legitimately look at this roster and say that any of the QBs are a better option going into the season. I just don't understand that in the slightest.

Quinn has been awful. Brandstater couldn't beat out Simms for the 2nd string job last year. And Tebow hasn't played a down. Yet Orton is awful and should be moved?

Just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I believe Orton it the logical option for winning more games this year. As has been clearly stated in this post earlier, "What is the point, if it's obvious the team is rebuilding? Why bring in two high profile QB prospects with all the physical strengths that Orton lacks, if you're not headed that way anyway?"

How can one assume that Brandy couldn't beat out Simms? He outplayed him in the preseason. Is it even remotely possible, Brandy didn't get a shot because McD paid him a hell of a lot more than you should have? Again, remotely possible.

Archer81
05-23-2010, 11:46 PM
My synopsis of this argument are as follows:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rvaZBuA0K2k&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rvaZBuA0K2k&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

:Broncos:

Taco John
05-23-2010, 11:47 PM
This is going to be one of the funnest pre-seasons in some time. I love a good quarterback competition. I can't wait for camp to start!

hambone13
05-23-2010, 11:53 PM
I largely agree that a dose of skepticism goes a long ways towards managing the hopes and expectations of sports fans.

I'm not personally calling for your fan card, but most of the arguments you presented where something people will easily attack and disagree with. Is it a shame it took this long for someone to point out the high frequency for immediate success with 2nd and 3rd round interior OLs? Sure is. There is a good reason why interior OL dominates the opening day rookie starters list year after year though despite teams typically avoiding those positions until the 2nd and 3rd rounds though.

I understand your view, its just your choice of points to make as corroboration that I take issue with. I'd like to think that was the case in general in this thread, though I'm doubtful.

Now if we want to talk about things to have doubts about regarding the 2010 Broncos, well, lets go no further than the subject of this very thread, Kyle Orton. Can he take the next step now without his security blanket named Brandon? Can he avoid getting yet another mid-season ankle injury? If the OL actually gives him time to throw can he make defenses respect the deep ball to Bey Bey that is so integral to opening up the short to intermediate routes for Royal and Gaffney/Decker?

Or will he pull a Jake Plummer and **** the bed in royal fashion now that there is a legitimate young replacement waiting in the wings?

Me personally? I think Orton's got more invested in football than Plummer and he's been fighting for a job every day of his career so I don't think he's going to turtle up on us a la Plummer. I also think another year of work in McDaniels system will benefit him, as will an offensive line that though young is actually tailored to our gameplan. I think Moreno is going to break out in a big way in 2010, which will add further assistance to Orton. So what it all will come down to is if Orton himself can prove the doubters wrong and make some big plays without Marshall breaking a half dozen tackles to make it happen.

But THAT is a source for concern.

Or whether or not Martindale is an effective enough game time DC to get the job done. By all accounts he's got the pelts on the wall for his coaching and practice management to be unquestioned. But its a whole 'nother animal when you're playing the chess game on Sundays and nothing really prepares you for it. He needs to win that chess game because we aren't talented enough to just beat up on very many teams. Nolan was a stud at that but got too conservative with the D when the offense stopped giving him points to play with and teams figured out how he was masking our weak DL in run prevention. That is the big question on defense.

The hot start followed by a major slide though? It was a Shanahan hallmark too as of late. It comes from a core similarity the two (Shanahan and McDaniels) share. They're both great game planners. They beat other coaches early because they can out scheme and out coach them while teams are still unsure of what their opposition has. But once there is ample tape out on your team it gets a whole lot harder to just out-coach guys on Sundays, you need to outplay them. Hard to do when you lack talent in key areas.

I'd expect another hot start this year, and if we do everyone is going to get all jacked up like they did last year. But it will almost certainly be followed by some kind of comparative slide.

This team has a real good shot to go 3-1, maybe even 4-0 the first quarter of the season. J'ville, Seattle, and Tennessee are should win games. Indy as an early season upset is also possible since they have a lot of coaching turnover and are historically a slow starter.

But our next four are the Ravens, Jets, Raiders, and 49ers. Three good teams with only one divisional rival that we should beat up on. If the offense hasn't gelled together by then and Martindale isn't over any rookie DC growing pains we'll get the **** kicked out of us. I'd honestly be happy with 2-2 over that stretch.

We then hit the bye at the midway point, one of the nicest positioned byes I think we've had in a while. After that we get KCx2, SD, and the Lambs. I'd like to think we go 3-1 over that stretch, but no worse than 2-2.

To close out the season we have Zona, Oakland, Houston, and SD. Another grouping that I'd expect no worse than 2-2 from, ideally 3-1.

So I'm expecting us to be a 9-7 team that will start out 3-1 and quickly drop to 5-3. But if we click early and actual maintain? I think 11-5 is well within the realm of possibility.

Spectacular post. Thank you for taking the time and providing so much valid information.

Archer81
05-23-2010, 11:56 PM
I am completely shocked my attempts to sidetrack this thread have been ignored. I however never quit. I will find a way.

Oh yes, I will.

http://tinyurl.com/ylr6k58

:Broncos:

hambone13
05-24-2010, 12:00 AM
I love this ... I'm more and more confident JD Walton is going to come in here and, barring injury, start every game for years to come. He's was a three-year starter, not four (transferred), but never missed a game, and somehow managed to make AP 1st team All-American ... not easy for a Baylor kid with Pouncey in the field.

Check this out ... he was "speechless" when the Broncos called: http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/042410aab.html

Do the statistics statistically speak to a Zone Blocking scheme or a Big Boy traditional scheme? It would seem to me that recent history is more relevant to the ZBS. This is one of the places I found Shanny to be brilliant. He had a lot more room to grow given his focus on a scheme that was statistically brilliant with less sought after physical types.

BroncoBuff
05-24-2010, 12:03 AM
I dunno why she's such exception, but I love Ke$ha, I really do.

She knocked me out on SNL last month.

hambone13
05-24-2010, 12:33 AM
My ridiculously early prediction. 8-8. I actually do kind of like how our schedule pans out though. I still don't like Orton, BUT my view may be changed. This may not actually be a throw-away season after all. I see 3 games (@Jax, @KC, Houston) that I marked as losses that could be wins.

After all this, I still have concerns with the team, but I actually like our schedule. I need to figure out what games I'm going to.

Edit: That late AZ/Oakland road trip will probably make or break. Both winnable games, but road games are a b****.

I see the reason in the potential 8-8, as the schedule is attractive compared to last year. However, a new unproven DC, a roster turnover like no other and a QB controversy don't play into that optimism, logically in my mind. I'd love to see the dream of the 6-0 of the beginning of last year turn into a better win/loss ratio at the end of the season but now everyone is going to be game planning for McD, because of such an incredible start and equally insignificant finish.

hambone13
05-24-2010, 12:35 AM
i think when they say he was available for trade, someone called and said is he available, broncos say "what are you offering" and of course they dont offer what denver wants. so they didnt immediately shoot down trade talks and thus is available for the right price (like 98% of players in the NFL)

Yaaaawn...Cutler reference. Must be a troll.

hambone13
05-24-2010, 12:51 AM
Every team has drama. Our drama happens to be nationally broadcasted and disected. I tolerate the nonsense because the team is moving forward. If we did not win with the all world talent of Cutler-Marshall-Scheffler-Hillis then start over with players with equal talent to the clown quartet (blasphemy for some to say that) and better attitudes.

Nate Jackson b****ing about how his release was handled...well...kudos to him for getting back at the lil napoleon for cutting the greatest TE since Chad Mustard. What would he have preferred? A certified letter, a bouquet of flowers and a singing telegram? He made a large sum of money doing nothing to earn it. Suck it up and move on, Mr Jackson.

:Broncos:

Geez. The guy is working a new career in media and rap. Doesn't all great Media and rap come from being treated like a 3rd string TE w/ no talent? Have a little heart.

HAT
05-24-2010, 12:56 AM
This board is pro-Broncos all the way. Is it really a surprise that fans would support the coach of their team? And this post screams of hysteria. No one is going to come after you because you have a misinformed opinion of the HC. Its a chatboard, giggles. Grow a set and deal with the ribbing.

:Broncos:

Calling dragster 'giggles' will always me make me chuckle.

hambone13
05-24-2010, 01:31 AM
The Mc in front of everything weakens the point you are attempting to make.



:Broncos:

Nothing I say strengthens any point I try and make in your eyes. Does a skit on SNL or the sarcasm of any comedian weaken their point? Furthermore, you don't have a Mc in front of your name so it wasn't directed at you, and you care because?

Drek
05-24-2010, 03:13 AM
Walton is the business, the head coach at Baylor called him the best offensive lineman he had and that was the year that Jason Smith went 12th overall.

I hope we have a good offensive line coach because we have a lot of young talent now that need coaching.

Jason Smith was actually the #2 overall pick in last year's draft. He was widely considered one of the more slam dunk OT selections in recent years. He didn't do a lot last season because he got a concussion early on and suffered from some pretty severe after effects (severe headaches, loss of balance, etc.)

Smith echoed his coach's sentiments FYI, saying that Walton was the single best player on their team and the best player he's ever been around.

Do the statistics statistically speak to a Zone Blocking scheme or a Big Boy traditional scheme? It would seem to me that recent history is more relevant to the ZBS. This is one of the places I found Shanny to be brilliant. He had a lot more room to grow given his focus on a scheme that was statistically brilliant with less sought after physical types.

Its got nothing to do with the ZBS. Every team does it regardless of system as long as they pick to their team's needs and style of play in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Beadles was effectively the 2nd or 3rd guard off the board last year. Walton was the 2nd center off the board. Its real rare that the 2nd or 3rd best guard and the 2nd best center in a draft class aren't good enough to play at the NFL level, when the 1st selections at both positions where first rounders.

Since 2006 the following players have gone in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round of the draft and started the majority of their games at the NFL level:

Jahri Evans
Daryn College
Deuce Lutui
Samson Satele
Ryan Kalil (brought in behind a vet, replaced him late in his rookie year, starer ever since)
Eric Wood (late 1st, but the #2 C on the board and the most recent best comp to JD Walton in my opinion)
Andy Levitre
Louis Vasquez
Jeremy Zuttah
Mike Pollak
Chilo Rachal
Justin Blalock
Jason Spitz

Every style of offense, every kind level of team from cellar dweller to champion, has a player on that list. I could add more but those are just the ones I found quickly, and are by far the majority of the 2nd and 3rd rounders with a few 4th rounders who broke out year one.

I also didn't check any tackle to guard conversions since that would be a bit more time consuming.

If you want to extend it to all 4th rounders as well and include guys who didn't play year one but broke out year two (i.e. the Seth Olsen numbers) it gets pretty impressive too. A lot of guys do that, typically because they're blocked by an established vet in year one.

RhymesayersDU
05-24-2010, 04:12 AM
Your post is laughable on so many levels. Let me help you out by summarizing the issues around your jaundiced, critical and neative points of view.

First RDU wrote, "Orton Sucks". Now I don't htink that meets any level of critical analysis based on any level of critical thinking. I challenged that the team with Orton could win 10+ games, and RDU went near ballistic and could not see any situation where the other team improvemnets could lead to 10 wins and especially he thought the rookie Olinemen would be of no use to the team this year, and that there had been no improvements...... Drek changed that with his excellent post. I said that much of the issue with the Cynics is that they spend too much time focusing on the QB position, hence the Post -Elway stuff.

Ms gunns was so out of touch with what I was saying that she seemed lost in her powder room.

I do not think you hambust, have met McD personally, nor do I think you have a freaking clue as to what he is trying to accomplish with the team. Hence, you use colorful, childish, juvenile and literaly stupid epithets to refer to McD. This tells me that you are likely still butt hurt over Cutler, Sheffler, Marshall and/or Hillis. That forms your opinion. Not great at analysis, are you? Not great at paying attention, are you? You want to call out those who are more of a "wait and see" team supporters then to think about what may actually be happening with the team.

I don't care if you like the Broncos or not. I don't care if you follow them or not. I follow them because it is entertainment. And I have done so for nearly 50 years.

I have become mostly innured to the cynical, crass and childish blatherings of many of the Cynics here. But to just say that "Orton Sucks" is really dumb and flies in the face of actual data and information about his performance to date. There is some indication that his performance next year can be better than last years' and I will leave it to you to figure out why, if you can get up any shred of thinking skills. Even if the team goes 10 - 6 or even better, I am sure RDU and other cynics around here will still focus on the QB position and live or die on how many times they can b**ch and moan about the play of Orton, or who ever is the QB.

Yep, Ms. gunns, the issue is that the QB is not the hero that cynics would like. And whether you wan to admit it or not, Elway is the standard.....

First off, where in this thread did I go "near ballistic?" I simply stated that we went 2-8 to end last season and will be relying on draft picks heavily to improve the team this year, which concerns me. I don't think that's entirely out of line. Am I Kyle Orton's biggest fan? No, I'm not. And maybe I'm not giving the guy a fair shot. But I did/do think (before hearing the statistics about offensive linemen generally being productive from the start) that relying on draft picks to be a dangerous proposition, and there's a lot of unknown.

Besides saying "Orton sucks" all I said was that I wanted to see our draft picks play before I declare that we improved. That's it. I never said that the olinemen would "be of no use" to the team. I just said that while I liked that we addressed the position, it could be a year or two before we really see the effects. Same with the WRs. They may be great, but may not show that entirely in 2010.

Look -- maybe my dislike for Orton isn't fair. Maybe it's a personal bias with no validity. You want to say that? Fine. But my cautiousness when it comes to expectations of draft picks is completely valid. I'm not going to proclaim anybody a Pro Bowler until they actually, you know, play a game of NFL football. Shame on me for not expecting greatness from day 1, especially considering the number of hyped guys we see every year (across the League) who never produce anything on an NFL field.

Oh and for the record, we focus on the QB heavily because you win in the NFL today with a great QB. It's the most important position on the field. And you really can't deny that. Look at the list of past SB winners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions) and you can count only a handful of teams over the past 10-20 years that won one or even made it to one without a really good-to-great QB. Does it happen? Sure. But more often than not, a great QB leads the way. That fact is undeniable.

Secondly, I want to post every reply that you've made in this thread, untouched:

You are out of your mind.



But you already knew that......

Trading Orton would be a bad mistake. But for some around here, thinking is that activity that exists to justify the conclusions already reached through other means, mainly through ostrich-emmulating denial of facts. It is amazing that some around here are still in post-Elway partum depression. The MSM continues to hammer at their "ideas" about how the team should be built, and some around here believe that crap. I should think people ewould watch and see what transpires.

I do not think trading Orton would help McD in his efforts to develop the team, nor give the team the best chance to win. Yeah, I'd go with the guy who has won some NFL games. Maybe the others will learn as the season progresses. With Orton, I'd see 10+ wins this year. With anyone else at QB, I'd see no more than 8......

*yawn*

Haters hate, then recant. Some are "just saying". Others look to the entire team as a team and see improvement. Others just keep seeing "holes" which allows them to be "just saying" fence riders who seem to hope for disaster.

McD knows this team better than anyone else here. And he knows the team he wants to build an is doing it his way.

It is strange to hear "Fans" want who just b**ch and moan. Maybe losers like these fans don't deserve a winning team.....

Just saying.....

Probleem is that these fools need a hero. Broncos' teams were identified any their QBs over the years. It is that characteristic that lead to the "post-elway partum depression" remark. Know what? Until these fools adopt one of the Broncos as a "hero", they will not see any "upgrade" to the team. None.

Last year, the team was 8-8 and was regarded by many - even some from the this netherland known as the OMane - believed that additons to the Dlne and to the Oline could/might/would make a two or three game difference. Well, McD did that, and these moves were remarked upon around here and elsewhere as cleary steps in the right direction.

Never mind, thouugh, some people just can't get it through their heads that improvements in the team is helpful ot the entire team, because none of the upgrades were the type of names that spelled HERO.

It is terribly ironic that a Sparkies' fan has a nniore mature attitude about the Broncos than the "fans" around here do.......

Great post. Rep!

Soince Ort0on has never been offeree anywhere per Shefter's tweet, it would seem McD is smarter than some would have him be.

Poor baby! No where did I say you were a "bad fan", only a slightly misguided one. "Poor quality? Only because your thoughts have swelled your head so much you cannot hear what others are saying. Part of growing up is learning to listen.

Lady, I am already older than most here. I have been retired for a number of years, now. Whippersnappers like you are a dime a dozen......

Try not being a snot. This ain't your issue, babykins.....

Not a single post has any kind of football thought whatsoever. It's just you taking personal shots at whoever disagrees with your point of view. Somebody disagrees with Paladin? They're out of their minds. Somebody asks why you think we're going to win 10+ games? They're a fool. They're a hater. They're a snot. Your words, not mine.

In fact, you had nothing but personal attacks to back up any of your arguments until Drek came in and saved you. Once he provided actual knowledge, then you had the confidence to continue your little tirade against anybody who disagreed with you.

I especially enjoy the ridiculously condescending reply to gunns. You might as well just say "get back in the kitchen" next time. By just saying that, it'd allow you to get to your other "points" much quicker.

Also humorous is you mentioning something about the "cynical, crass and childish blatherings of many of the Cynics here." Yeah, you'd know all about being crass and childish, wouldn't you?

Stay classy.

http://www.bolgernow.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/grandpa-simpson-yelling-at-cloud.jpg
Pictured: Paladin hears somebody say something bad about the Broncos. Because he did not actually see who said it, he assumes the clouds did. A barrage of insults screamed towards the sky ensues.

Beantown Bronco
05-24-2010, 04:59 AM
Just a note for all thoose citing Orton's practice performance, remember that Jake Plummer's Training Camp was universally lauded prior to his complete and total collapse and benching in favor of Cutler.

Actually, that's not true at all. I remember the reports from Cutler's very first week of practice talking about how good HE looked compared to Plummer and how Shanny was gonna have a hard time keeping Plummer as the #1.

nickademus
05-24-2010, 07:08 AM
First off, where in this thread did I go "near ballistic?" I simply stated that we went 2-8 to end last season and will be relying on draft picks heavily to improve the team this year, which concerns me. I don't think that's entirely out of line. Am I Kyle Orton's biggest fan? No, I'm not. And maybe I'm not giving the guy a fair shot. But I did/do think (before hearing the statistics about offensive linemen generally being productive from the start) that relying on draft picks to be a dangerous proposition, and there's a lot of unknown.

Besides saying "Orton sucks" all I said was that I wanted to see our draft picks play before I declare that we improved. That's it. I never said that the olinemen would "be of no use" to the team. I just said that while I liked that we addressed the position, it could be a year or two before we really see the effects. Same with the WRs. They may be great, but may not show that entirely in 2010.

Look -- maybe my dislike for Orton isn't fair. Maybe it's a personal bias with no validity. You want to say that? Fine. But my cautiousness when it comes to expectations of draft picks is completely valid. I'm not going to proclaim anybody a Pro Bowler until they actually, you know, play a game of NFL football. Shame on me for not expecting greatness from day 1, especially considering the number of hyped guys we see every year (across the League) who never produce anything on an NFL field.

Oh and for the record, we focus on the QB heavily because you win in the NFL today with a great QB. It's the most important position on the field. And you really can't deny that. Look at the list of past SB winners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions) and you can count only a handful of teams over the past 10-20 years that won one or even made it to one without a really good-to-great QB. Does it happen? Sure. But more often than not, a great QB leads the way. That fact is undeniable.

Secondly, I want to post every reply that you've made in this thread, untouched:















Not a single post has any kind of football thought whatsoever. It's just you taking personal shots at whoever disagrees with your point of view. Somebody disagrees with Paladin? They're out of their minds. Somebody asks why you think we're going to win 10+ games? They're a fool. They're a hater. They're a snot. Your words, not mine.

In fact, you had nothing but personal attacks to back up any of your arguments until Drek came in and saved you. Once he provided actual knowledge, then you had the confidence to continue your little tirade against anybody who disagreed with you.

I especially enjoy the ridiculously condescending reply to gunns. You might as well just say "get back in the kitchen" next time. By just saying that, it'd allow you to get to your other "points" much quicker.

Also humorous is you mentioning something about the "cynical, crass and childish blatherings of many of the Cynics here." Yeah, you'd know all about being crass and childish, wouldn't you?

Stay classy.

http://www.bolgernow.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/grandpa-simpson-yelling-at-cloud.jpg
Pictured: Paladin hears somebody say something bad about the Broncos. Because he did not actually see who said it, he assumes the clouds did. A barrage of insults screamed towards the sky ensues.

Priceless, absolutely priceless.

tebowisdabomb
05-24-2010, 07:43 AM
Ortons Jersey is on sale for 20 bucks
http://www.denverbroncosproshop.com/main_detail.cfm?nProductID=20826&sAuxTitle=Denver% 20Broncos%20Orton%20Youth%20Jersey-%20Replica

Cleo McDowell
05-24-2010, 08:03 AM
Ortons Jersey is on sale for 20 bucks
http://www.denverbroncosproshop.com/main_detail.cfm?nProductID=20826&sAuxTitle=Denver%20Broncos%20Orton%20Youth%20Jerse y-%20Replica

if it aint on wikipedia i aint believing it.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-24-2010, 08:42 AM
I believe Orton it the logical option for winning more games this year. As has been clearly stated in this post earlier, "What is the point, if it's obvious the team is rebuilding? Why bring in two high profile QB prospects with all the physical strengths that Orton lacks, if you're not headed that way anyway?"

How can one assume that Brandy couldn't beat out Simms? He outplayed him in the preseason. Is it even remotely possible, Brandy didn't get a shot because McD paid him a hell of a lot more than you should have? Again, remotely possible.

Brandy outplayed Simms in the preseason? Really? Why were there so many here (and in the media) claiming that Simms should have started over Orton?

An interesting theory, but in no way does playing okay against the Arizona scrubs mean he "outperformed" anyone.

You can assume he didn't beat out Simms very simply: Simms played like a double amputee while Orton was hurt, and even though he was a complete train wreck, McDaniels marched him out there the next week to take on San Diego. Money? I don't think money had anything to do with it. But then, I'm just a McPiranha with a McAgenda, and I think that McDaniels is here to win games first and foremost. You're concerned about Nate Jackson's feelings.

Archer81
05-24-2010, 08:48 AM
Nothing I say strengthens any point I try and make in your eyes. Does a skit on SNL or the sarcasm of any comedian weaken their point? Furthermore, you don't have a Mc in front of your name so it wasn't directed at you, and you care because?


It seems childish.

Are you on SNL or a satirist or a comedian?

I care because gosh darn it, somebody has to like you! (I kid, I kid.)


:Broncos:

Cito Pelon
05-24-2010, 09:43 AM
I won't be excited about it at all, but if he is the starter I'll be rooting for him. Just like last year.

Ya know, it's ok if you try to find some positives. I have a hard time understanding you folks that tend toward pessimism. I guess it's just an optimists vs. pessimists issue.

oubronco
05-24-2010, 09:48 AM
Who cares if he "WAS" on the trading block?

He hasn't been traded and is the starting QB according to McD

tsiguy96
05-24-2010, 09:53 AM
Brandy outplayed Simms in the preseason? Really? Why were there so many here (and in the media) claiming that Simms should have started over Orton?

An interesting theory, but in no way does playing okay against the Arizona scrubs mean he "outperformed" anyone.

You can assume he didn't beat out Simms very simply: Simms played like a double amputee while Orton was hurt, and even though he was a complete train wreck, McDaniels marched him out there the next week to take on San Diego. Money? I don't think money had anything to do with it. But then, I'm just a McPiranha with a McAgenda, and I think that McDaniels is here to win games first and foremost. You're concerned about Nate Jackson's feelings.

ive had to say it several times, but brandstater played against arizonas first team D

Cito Pelon
05-24-2010, 10:20 AM
Exactly.

I knew this was where the conversation would turn. The whole "you want Orton to fail so you'll be right" shtick. The idea that people who dislike Orton (Or McDaniels, etc) want them to fail. That they want the Broncos to fail. It's so, so stupid.

I don't like Orton. I've made it pretty clear. That doesn't mean I wish the guy ill. If he proves me wrong, if he proves that I know nothing about the NFL, I will gladly eat my crow. A huge serving. Because that means the team that I've been supporting since birth was winning. I want to be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I want Orton to lead us to the promised land. Do I see it happening? No. But that doesn't mean that when the lights go on in September I'll be rooting against Orton or this team. I want so badly to be proven wrong. I will always root for the 22 guys on the field, always.

This idea that people who don't support Kyle Orton won't root for the team or will go into a "bigtime depression" is hilarious retarded.

I realize you and many others once in a while in 2009 said "I want so badly to be proven wrong. I will always root for the 22 guys on the field, always."

But you were so hysterical about every personnel move, it was like Daddy yanking binker out of an infant's mouth. You probably don't like that comparison, but that's the way I saw it.

It was just flat out surreal and ridiculous the overreaction yourself and many others posted here in 2009 in response to a simple change of direction after 10 years with only one AFC West Title and one playoff win.

RhymesayersDU
05-24-2010, 10:29 AM
I realize you and many others once in a while in 2009 said "I want so badly to be proven wrong. I will always root for the 22 guys on the field, always."

But you were so hysterical about every personnel move, it was like Daddy yanking binker out of an infant's mouth. You probably don't like that comparison, but that's the way I saw it.

It was just flat out surreal and ridiculous the overreaction yourself and many others posted here in 2009 in response to a simple change of direction after 10 years with only one AFC West Title and one playoff win.

ROFL

Whatever you say, chief.

If I was "hysterical" (I assume this is much like going "near ballistic" in this thread) it was because the franchise changed a lot in one offseason. Firing your SB winning coach and trading your starting QB is a big deal. It's a lot more than a "simple change in direction." That's like saying we had a "simple change in power" when Obama was elected. Just slightly understating it.

The funny thing about this ordeal is that I actually like McDaniels. I think he needs some better players to implement his vision, and I think we're working towards that. But believe what you want. I'll go try and find the "binker that was yanked out of my mouth."

One thing I love about this board is that if you post something negative, or if maybe you don't see something in the same light as somebody else, you're suddenly "going ballistic" or "hysterical" or "going to go into a bigtime depression." This just in folks: contrary to popular belief, people who disagree with you aren't drooling idiots who can't control their emotions and who explode with rage at the drop of a dime.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-24-2010, 10:33 AM
ive had to say it several times, but brandstater played against arizonas first team D

For how many series? Seems like, in the fourth preseason game, team starters go out for one series (and sometimes less) before calling it a day.

Was this game different?

gunns
05-24-2010, 10:58 AM
Lady, I am already older than most here. I have been retired for a number of years, now. Whippersnappers like you are a dime a dozen......

Try not being a snot. This ain't your issue, babykins.....

If you're calling me a whippersnapper you've got to be close to 80. Explains the delusion. And being 80 and retired doesn't mean you don't need to grow up. Obviously. Any issue concerning the Broncos has been my issue for the past 40 years.

Dagmar
05-24-2010, 11:09 AM
Rhyme, didn't you have a meltdown and post numerous picturesof graphic gay porn last year? Maybe not in this thread but I was one of the unfortunate ones that saw that!

RhymesayersDU
05-24-2010, 11:11 AM
Rhyme, didn't you have a meltdown and post numerous picturesof graphic gay porn last year? Maybe not in this thread but I was one of the unfortunate ones that saw that!

That was me being a full-on troll and doing something to get myself banned. Although, it had nothing to do with the Broncos.

Cito Pelon
05-24-2010, 11:22 AM
ROFL

Whatever you say, chief.

If I was "hysterical" (I assume this is much like going "near ballistic" in this thread) it was because the franchise changed a lot in one offseason. Firing your SB winning coach and trading your starting QB is a big deal. It's a lot more than a "simple change in direction." That's like saying we had a "simple change in power" when Obama was elected. Just slightly understating it.

The funny thing about this ordeal is that I actually like McDaniels. I think he needs some better players to implement his vision, and I think we're working towards that. But believe what you want. I'll go try and find the "binker that was yanked out of my mouth."

One thing I love about this board is that if you post something negative, or if maybe you don't see something in the same light as somebody else, you're suddenly "going ballistic" or "hysterical" or "going to go into a bigtime depression." This just in folks: contrary to popular belief, people who disagree with you aren't drooling idiots who can't control their emotions and who explode with rage at the drop of a dime.

Well, I see your point. That's fair enough.

On the other hand, you sure do seem to have been enraged about a few things, and often.

No big deal, these type of things happen all the time. The position you have about McD I had about Mike Shanahan - the former Oakland Raider HC - for many a year.

gunns
05-24-2010, 11:37 AM
Your post is laughable on so many levels. Let me help you out by summarizing the issues around your jaundiced, critical and neative points of view.

First RDU wrote, "Orton Sucks". Now I don't htink that meets any level of critical analysis based on any level of critical thinking. I challenged that the team with Orton could win 10+ games, and RDU went near ballistic and could not see any situation where the other team improvemnets could lead to 10 wins and especially he thought the rookie Olinemen would be of no use to the team this year, and that there had been no improvements...... Drek changed that with his excellent post. I said that much of the issue with the Cynics is that they spend too much time focusing on the QB position, hence the Post -Elway stuff.

Ms gunns was so out of touch with what I was saying that she seemed lost in her powder room.

I do not think you hambust, have met McD personally, nor do I think you have a freaking clue as to what he is trying to accomplish with the team. Hence, you use colorful, childish, juvenile and literaly stupid epithets to refer to McD. This tells me that you are likely still butt hurt over Cutler, Sheffler, Marshall and/or Hillis. That forms your opinion. Not great at analysis, are you? Not great at paying attention, are you? You want to call out those who are more of a "wait and see" team supporters then to think about what may actually be happening with the team.

I don't care if you like the Broncos or not. I don't care if you follow them or not. I follow them because it is entertainment. And I have done so for nearly 50 years.

I have become mostly innured to the cynical, crass and childish blatherings of many of the Cynics here. But to just say that "Orton Sucks" is really dumb and flies in the face of actual data and information about his performance to date. There is some indication that his performance next year can be better than last years' and I will leave it to you to figure out why, if you can get up any shred of thinking skills. Even if the team goes 10 - 6 or even better, I am sure RDU and other cynics around here will still focus on the QB position and live or die on how many times they can b**ch and moan about the play of Orton, or who ever is the QB.

Yep, Ms. gunns, the issue is that the QB is not the hero that cynics would like. And whether you wan to admit it or not, Elway is the standard.....

Ewww seems I touched someones nerve. Then obviously I knew exactly what you were saying as the standard comeback is always "they took it out of context". And then there is the always obvious attempt at a put down.

I knew exactly what you were saying. Blaming it on people still hanging from Elway's jock. People do not like Orton's performance based on his performance. He's got cement blocks for feet and it's a ****ing party when he throws a long ball and a national event if he completes the throw. It isn't because I'm still waiting for the next John Elway. There will never be another Elway. Hell I'd take the play of a Dilfer or Brad Johnson who could maintain the game and let the rest of the team win it without ****ing it up.

Several games were lost last year because of Orton. His stats looked half way decent because the WR and the rest of the team saved his ass on occasion. If we are rebuilding and we know we are going with another QB eventually anyway, I'd have no problem if Orton was traded. If we don't trade him, I don't care if he starts. I just care if we win and if he does start hopefully the rest of the pick ups and team as a whole will be improvement enough to negate his mistakes.

Now, as I stated before, grow up. You are not the fan patrol. It is not in your job description to decide why everyone is thinking a certain way or has developed their own opinion. Notice above, I stated why I don't like Orton. Not why you shouldn't. You and TSI need to burn the club house and think on your own, not for everyone else.

BlaK-Argentina
05-24-2010, 11:42 AM
Several games were lost last year because of Orton.

Three examples please. No, just two.

Rabb
05-24-2010, 11:50 AM
Three examples please. No, just two.

actually, I am not sure there is even 1

the only 1 I can think of is Washington, and that was only because he got hurt

BlaK-Argentina
05-24-2010, 11:54 AM
actually, I am not sure there is even 1

the only 1 I can think of is Washington, and that was only because he got hurt

I know but she said several so I want to see what she says.

BroncoSojia
05-24-2010, 11:56 AM
Three examples please. No, just two.

The Steelers and Ravens game.

..and I in part blame him for losing the second Chiefs game. Sure our run-D was pretty bad, but his 3 pics (two returned for TD's) sure didn't help

jhns
05-24-2010, 11:56 AM
Three examples please. No, just two.

How about 8?

BlaK-Argentina
05-24-2010, 12:00 PM
The Steelers and Ravens game.

..and I in part blame him for losing the second Chiefs game. Sure our run-D was pretty bad, but his 3 pics (two returned for TD's) sure didn't help

No way the Steelers and Ravens. Our line got crushed both times and the offense never got to do anything. I mean the whole offense not just Orton. I put those losses on the coaches and not having enough talent. Hardly Orton's fault. And we weren't winning the Chiefs game even if he doesn't throw those picks IMO but I'll give you that one.

Still no clear example of him ever losing a game by himself... like you know... Cutler several times last year? (first guy that comes to mind) A QB loses a game by himself when he throws a pick or fumbles at the worst possible time. I don't remember Orton ever doing that.

Rabb
05-24-2010, 12:02 PM
The Steelers and Ravens game.

..and I in part blame him for losing the second Chiefs game. Sure our run-D was pretty bad, but his 3 pics (two returned for TD's) sure didn't help

BS on all 3

Steelers and Ravens, our offensive line completely melted down and our defense could stop nothing

seriously I know what you did, you looked at box scores for the INT column...never mind that we couldn't run the ball to save our lives those 2 weeks (27 yards rushing against Pittsburgh...27 YARDS)

the Chiefs, you take away the 14 points Orton spotted them and we still lose that game...then again if you think giving up 259 yards rushing is on the QB then ok...I guess you have a point

BlaK-Argentina
05-24-2010, 12:03 PM
What I'm saying is Gunns is sure Orton all by himself lost several games for us and I just can't see it. No way. I'm not even a big Orton fan.

Rabb
05-24-2010, 12:05 PM
What I'm saying is Gunns is sure Orton all by himself lost several games for us and I just can't see it. No way. I'm not even a big Orton fan.

completely agree

jhns
05-24-2010, 12:08 PM
McDaniels knows QB play better than any poster here. McDaniels is trying to replace Orton based on his performance here last season. Ortons play was good enough to show that he shouldn't be starting in this league.

End of discussion.

gunns
05-24-2010, 12:20 PM
Three examples please. No, just two.

I will back track slightly, because no one player loses a game for a team, but often their play is the catalyst to a loss. That's like saying Plummer took us to the AFCC. IMO, the Pittsburgh game, the SD game, and the KC game. Now, according to your own opinion, you can come up with different scenarios where it was another player or unit on the team that was responsible. But I think there were wins, also, that we won in spite of Orton. Cincy, KC, and yes even Dallas.

Cito Pelon
05-24-2010, 01:09 PM
completely agree

Orton sure catches some crap around here for coming into town on a minute's notice, being a professional, learning an all new staff, system and teammates, but managed to be in the top half of the NFL in most measurables.

And after getting booed at Mile High the first time he appeared at Mile High. Remember "Orton Hears the Boos"?

Dude is a stud competitor. I'll always admire his competitive spirit, dude is fearless.

It's a shame many Bronco fans showed last year they don't have that same competitive spirit, tanked real fast, proclaimed 2009 as a lost season before training camp started.

And it's the same bunch, the same exact bunch, proclaiming in 2010 we better watch out, it could be a horrible year, just you wait and see. In May.

HAT
05-24-2010, 01:18 PM
orton sure catches some crap around here for coming into town on a minute's notice, being a professional, learning an all new staff, system and teammates, but managed to be in the top half of the nfl in most measurables.

And after getting booed at mile high the first time he appeared at mile high. Remember "orton hears the boos"?

Dude is a stud competitor. I'll always admire his competitive spirit, dude is fearless.

It's a shame many bronco fans showed last year they don't have that same competitive spirit, tanked real fast, proclaimed 2009 as a lost season before training camp started.

And it's the same bunch, the same exact bunch, proclaiming in 2010 we better watch out, it could be a horrible year, just you wait and see. In may.

+1

jhns
05-24-2010, 01:21 PM
And it's the same bunch, the same exact bunch, proclaiming in 2010 we better watch out, it could be a horrible year, just you wait and see. In May.

Weird, I haven't seen a single person say anything close to this.

Drama queens.

Rabb
05-24-2010, 01:24 PM
Orton sure catches some crap around here for coming into town on a minute's notice, being a professional, learning an all new staff, system and teammates, but managed to be in the top half of the NFL in most measurables.

And after getting booed at Mile High the first time he appeared at Mile High. Remember "Orton Hears the Boos"?

Dude is a stud competitor. I'll always admire his competitive spirit, dude is fearless.

It's a shame many Bronco fans showed last year they don't have that same competitive spirit, tanked real fast, proclaimed 2009 as a lost season before training camp started.

And it's the same bunch, the same exact bunch, proclaiming in 2010 we better watch out, it could be a horrible year, just you wait and see. In May.

again, totally agree

good post

Drek
05-24-2010, 04:32 PM
Some of the people on here really hate to actually talk football.

Mr.Meanie
05-24-2010, 04:38 PM
McDaniels knows QB play better than any poster here. McDaniels is trying to replace Orton based on his performance here last season. Ortons play was good enough to show that he shouldn't be starting in this league.

End of discussion.

You're right, his 15 game 3800 yards and 21/12 td/int ratio proves he shouldn't be starting anywhere in this league. Good one :thumbsup:

Dagmar
05-24-2010, 04:49 PM
McDaniels knows QB play better than any poster here. McDaniels is trying to replace Orton based on his performance here last season. Ortons play was good enough to show that he shouldn't be starting in this league.

End of discussion.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2yv8hma.png

Right. You are genius.

tsiguy96
05-24-2010, 04:53 PM
jhns is gonna post that same thing in another thread, btw. not even going to bother responding to the fact that he has been proven wrong.

listopencil
05-24-2010, 05:06 PM
McDaniels knows QB play better than any poster here. McDaniels is trying to replace Orton based on his performance here last season. Ortons play was good enough to show that he shouldn't be starting in this league.

End of discussion.


Hmm...then McDaniels must really be a stupid mother****er. He grabbed two guys that aren't ready to start on an NFL team. So, either McD is a stupid mother****er or you are. I'm going with you.

jhns
05-24-2010, 08:35 PM
Right. You are genius.

I'm sure McDaniels agrees with you guys. Spending a first round pick on a QB and trading for another says that he thinks we had good QB play last season. It isn't that it is a weakness. We just addressed it with a lot of resources because we didn't have any other holes to fill. You guys got me.....

jhns
05-24-2010, 08:37 PM
Hmm...then McDaniels must really be a stupid mother****er. He grabbed two guys that aren't ready to start on an NFL team. So, either McD is a stupid mother****er or you are. I'm going with you.

LOL

I'm sure he picked a guy in the first without the intention of replacing Orton. You sure schooled me.

Polster60
05-24-2010, 09:27 PM
Orton:
+ Good enough to manage a game and do what is needed at times to help lead his team to victory. A solid leader, hard worker, and a smart player. He has solid accuracy and arm. You can't root against him because he is a team first player that fights for everything he earns.
- Not good enough to take a team on his shoulders and will them to victory. Lacks the physical athletic ability to break open a game. Has a good enough of an arm to manage the field, but lacks the gunslinger mentality to attack defenses downfield.
=
Orton is a player that can help by making the plays he is supposed to and can hurt the team because of the same reason. How many plays last year were there open players down field that Orton failed to throw to because he checked down or threw the ball away. ( There is a covet to all this though. In the Washington game Kyle really looked to be breaking out. It was a shame for him to have that injury. I feel that had he not got hurt, the entire outcome of the season could have been vastly different. ) which brings me to my next point. Back up QB. Chris simms was just downright awful. He was completely inept at running Mcdaniels offense with any sort of rhythm. The team definitely lost confidence in that stretch of games.

I like now that McDaniels brought in, not just competition at the QB position, but young talent that can bring different things to this team. We cannot be certain what the outcome will be, but I'll feel much more comfortable this season if our starter were to go down with an injury.

Polster60
05-24-2010, 09:43 PM
Tim Tebow:
+ Heart and soul player (literally). Very good physical ability, Solid arm, solid accuracy, and great mobility. Strong, physical, mean, tough leader. Work hard and is very cerebral.
- Bad throwing mechanics. limited experience under center. 3, 5, 7, and 12 foot Drops and footwork need to be tweaked. Came from a spread offense in college. How will he assimilate to a pro offense? Can he read an NFL defense?
=
Tebow is a player I expect to have a solid if not spectacular pro career. He has the intangibles that an team would love to have in its Franchise player. He has the physical tools; the strength, smarts, body to compete at a high level. Will he reach his potential; I'm not sure.

At first this was a pick I felt was somewhat suspect. But I don't mind it one bit right now. This draft from the perspective of the fans is an absolute blockbuster. This draft if everyone performs to where they were drafted could setup this offense for the next 10 years. I"ll take it any day of the week, any week of the year, and twice on draft weekend.

strafen
05-24-2010, 09:58 PM
Orton:
+ Good enough to manage a game and do what is needed at times to help lead his team to victory. A solid leader, hard worker, and a smart player. He has solid accuracy and arm. You can't root against him because he is a team first player that fights for everything he earns.
- Not good enough to take a team on his shoulders and will them to victory. Lacks the physical athletic ability to break open a game. Has a good enough of an arm to manage the field, but lacks the gunslinger mentality to attack defenses downfield.
=
Orton is a player that can help by making the plays he is supposed to and can hurt the team because of the same reason. How many plays last year were there open players down field that Orton failed to throw to because he checked down or threw the ball away. ( There is a covet to all this though. In the Washington game Kyle really looked to be breaking out. It was a shame for him to have that injury. I feel that had he not got hurt, the entire outcome of the season could have been vastly different. ) which brings me to my next point. Back up QB. Chris simms was just downright awful. He was completely inept at running Mcdaniels offense with any sort of rhythm. The team definitely lost confidence in that stretch of games.

I like now that McDaniels brought in, not just competition at the QB position, but young talent that can bring different things to this team. We cannot be certain what the outcome will be, but I'll feel much more comfortable this season if our starter were to go down with an injury.

Very good point.
IF Orton turns out that he will be the starter, he will need to improve his vertical game to keep defenses honest.
It remains to be seen how he would be used this time around...

strafen
05-24-2010, 10:00 PM
Tim Tebow:
+ Heart and soul player (literally). Very good physical ability, Solid arm, solid accuracy, and great mobility. Strong, physical, mean, tough leader. Work hard and is very cerebral.
- Bad throwing mechanics. limited experience under center. 3, 5, 7, and 12 foot Drops and footwork need to be tweaked. Came from a spread offense in college. How will he assimilate to a pro offense? Can he read an NFL defense?
=
Tebow is a player I expect to have a solid if not spectacular pro career. He has the intangibles that an team would love to have in its Franchise player. He has the physical tools; the strength, smarts, body to compete at a high level. Will he reach his potential; I'm not sure.

At first this was a pick I felt was somewhat suspect. But I don't mind it one bit right now. This draft from the perspective of the fans is an absolute blockbuster. This draft if everyone performs to where they were drafted could setup this offense for the next 10 years. I"ll take it any day of the week, any week of the year, and twice on draft weekend.Thaks for another great post!
Tebow has it all. His mechanics I believe are now a lot better than they were, say, a year ago.
It takes a lot of practice to become second nature.
We will find out how he shows off in pre-season...

watermock
05-24-2010, 10:15 PM
like now that McDaniels brought in, not just competition at the QB position, but young talent that can bring different things to this team. We cannot be certain what the outcome will be, but I'll feel much more comfortable this season if our starter were to go down with an injury.



Wow, just wow.

Like Beavis and and Casell almost brought back the Pats?

BroncoBuff
05-24-2010, 11:14 PM
Totally. Lets iggie him.

:Broncos:

I like your thinking there, pal ... to put yourself on ignore.

One time I was really REALLY annoying myself, so I tried that.

It doesn't work ...


http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2088/ignore.png

colonelbeef
05-24-2010, 11:18 PM
"Was" available? It should be "is currently available."

Sigh. Seriously, get this guy out of here.

Agreed. Get anything you can for him at this point, try to get a season out of Quinn.

colonelbeef
05-24-2010, 11:46 PM
Every team has drama. Our drama happens to be nationally broadcasted and disected. I tolerate the nonsense because the team is moving forward. If we did not win with the all world talent of Cutler-Marshall-Scheffler-Hillis then start over with players with equal talent to the clown quartet (blasphemy for some to say that) and better attitudes.

Nate Jackson b****ing about how his release was handled...well...kudos to him for getting back at the lil napoleon for cutting the greatest TE since Chad Mustard. What would he have preferred? A certified letter, a bouquet of flowers and a singing telegram? He made a large sum of money doing nothing to earn it. Suck it up and move on, Mr Jackson.

:Broncos:


yeah, Cutler/Marshall/Sheffler/Hillis/Royal was definitely given more than enough time to put together multiple championship runs.

laughable, as per usual with your revisionist history

Archer81
05-24-2010, 11:57 PM
yeah, Cutler/Marshall/Sheffler/Hillis/Royal was definitely given more than enough time to put together multiple championship runs.

laughable, as per usual with your revisionist history


Aww. Struck a nerve, huh?

Its ok. I dont think any less of you.

:Broncos:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-25-2010, 06:14 AM
yeah, Cutler/Marshall/Sheffler/Hillis/Royal was definitely given more than enough time to put together multiple championship runs.

laughable, as per usual with your revisionist history

Playoffs would have been a really nice start.

hambone13
05-25-2010, 07:39 AM
First off, where in this thread did I go "near ballistic?" I simply stated that we went 2-8 to end last season and will be relying on draft picks heavily to improve the team this year, which concerns me. I don't think that's entirely out of line. Am I Kyle Orton's biggest fan? No, I'm not. And maybe I'm not giving the guy a fair shot. But I did/do think (before hearing the statistics about offensive linemen generally being productive from the start) that relying on draft picks to be a dangerous proposition, and there's a lot of unknown.



Stay classy.

http://www.bolgernow.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/grandpa-simpson-yelling-at-cloud.jpg
Pictured: Paladin hears somebody say something bad about the Broncos. Because he did not actually see who said it, he assumes the clouds did. A barrage of insults screamed towards the sky ensues.

Rep

I could :kiss: you right now....awesome post. That cartoon flat out nailed it.

Dagmar
05-25-2010, 07:42 AM
Rep

I could :kiss: you right now....awesome post. That cartoon flat out nailed it.

Yup, classy alright, especially last year when things didn't go his way and he posted numerous graphic gay porn pictures in a thread that poster's children could see because he wanted to get banned at that point. Ballistic? Yes. Classy? ...

hambone13
05-25-2010, 07:55 AM
Orton sure catches some crap around here for coming into town on a minute's notice, being a professional, learning an all new staff, system and teammates, but managed to be in the top half of the NFL in most measurables.

And after getting booed at Mile High the first time he appeared at Mile High. Remember "Orton Hears the Boos"?

Dude is a stud competitor. I'll always admire his competitive spirit, dude is fearless.

It's a shame many Bronco fans showed last year they don't have that same competitive spirit, tanked real fast, proclaimed 2009 as a lost season before training camp started.

And it's the same bunch, the same exact bunch, proclaiming in 2010 we better watch out, it could be a horrible year, just you wait and see. In May.

I have a ton of respect for Orton as a professional and man with great football character. There's lots of players out there with those qualities. They tend to be the grinders that made it based purely on their work ethic like Rod Smith and Eddy Mac. Love those guys. If we had an earth shattering defense, a beefcake mean offensive line and a top 5 running game, it may even be possible that Orton could take us to the SB. The problem is, so could just about any QB prospect that is average compared to the elite on his best day. That being said, put a guy in there who's legs aren't knee deep in cement and panics when ever the O-Line breaks down.

hambone13
05-25-2010, 08:01 AM
Yup, classy alright, especially last year when things didn't go his way and he posted numerous graphic gay porn pictures in a thread that poster's children could see because he wanted to get banned at that point. Ballistic? Yes. Classy? ...

LOL, I don't recall that but it was still a damn good post.

TonyR
05-25-2010, 08:36 AM
I'm sure McDaniels agrees with you guys. Spending a first round pick on a QB and trading for another says that he thinks we had good QB play last season...

Although at the end of the day you're probably right I think this angle gets overplayed a little bit.

Quinn was probalby brought in as much to upgrade the backup position as to replace Orton. If the best case scenario develops that he proves to be an upgrade over Orton then all the better.

As for Tebow, I'm betting that McD had no intention of taking a QB high until he met Tebow and fell in love.

So I'm not sure he's down on Orton but he is smart enough to know that Orton has limitations and is not the long term answer.

RhymesayersDU
05-25-2010, 08:48 AM
Yup, classy alright, especially last year when things didn't go his way and he posted numerous graphic gay porn pictures in a thread that poster's children could see because he wanted to get banned at that point. Ballistic? Yes. Classy? ...

You keep talking about gay porn. Would you like me to direct you to the Google image search I got those from? I mean, if you're looking for more I can certainly help you.

The funny thing about that is that I technically didn't get banned for doing that, but for making a "personal attack" on somebody. Hilarious.

jhns
05-25-2010, 08:55 AM
The funny thing about that is that I technically didn't get banned for doing that, but for making a "personal attack" on somebody. Hilarious.

I think that means it's ok for you to post more of it.

listopencil
05-25-2010, 09:09 AM
LOL

I'm sure he picked a guy in the first without the intention of replacing Orton. You sure schooled me.

Yeah, he picked a QB in the first that is an admitted project. He also picked up a young veteran that's a long shot to start. So, like I said: He sure did a piss poor job if his aim was to bring in somebody to bump Orton out of the starting position. So either he's a moron and purposefully grabbed guys that are ill equipped to replace Orton right now, or you're a dumbass with an agenda. Once again I'm going with you're a dumbass.

jhns
05-25-2010, 09:17 AM
Yeah, he picked a QB in the first that is an admitted project. He also picked up a young veteran that's a long shot to start. So, like I said: He sure did a piss poor job if his aim was to bring in somebody to bump Orton out of the starting position. So either he's a moron and purposefully grabbed guys that are ill equipped to replace Orton right now, or you're a dumbass with an agenda. Once again I'm going with you're a dumbass.

He has to replace Orton this second in order to think he needs better QB play? Really? You don't think much before you type, do you? Maybe you have some suggestions of who he could have drafted and started right away? How do you even know Tebow won't start right away? Do you have a McDaniels quote saying he is a project? I must have missed that part.

Again, I'm sure he used all of those resources on QB because he thinks we have good QB play already. It must be that this is such a complete team and we had nothing else to use those resources on....

listopencil
05-25-2010, 09:29 AM
He has to replace Orton this second in order to think he needs better QB play?

This second? You really are kinda like a 14 year old girl with the drama, aren't you?

Really? You don't think much before you type, do you? Maybe you have some suggestions of who he could have drafted and started right away? How do you even know Tebow won't start right away? Do you have a McDaniels quote saying he is a project? I must have missed that part.

It's your insinuation that Orton is such a crappy QB. If he's so bad, there should be FA QB's out there that we could have picked up that would have done a much better job. McNabb was available off the top of my head. As far as Tebow goes- actually take some time to look at what he brings.

Again, I'm sure he used all of those resources on QB because he thinks we have good QB play already. It must be that this is such a complete team and we had nothing else to use those resources on....

McD has historically tried to have established vets at every position and talented "potential" guys behind them to create competition and depth. It's how the Pats built their teams, why would he change the philosophy that got him a HC gig?

So...once again...you're a dumbass.

Polster60
05-25-2010, 09:45 AM
I don't think you can discount the true power of competition. One could say McDaniels brought in a struggling young veteran QB on the verge of busting and a overdrafted running QB. But the truth is no one on this board can tell just what each of these players will have offer come opening game. Or how they will react to all the competition. BDawk was interviewed not to long ago on DB.com, this was his comment on competition.
"Competition is a great thing," Dawkins said. "I know it is for me. When I have safeties behind me that I know are pushing me, guess what that does for me -- that makes me up my game, up my thought process. I always go into every camp saying that I need to beat out the guy who's behind me anyway, but when you have someone that you know that can push you, you up your game that much more."
People seem to forget sometimes that this isn't just a game, but a job, a career, a chance for one of these players to be the face of a franchise, a city. If these guys don't bring their A+ game everyday someone else will.

On a side note, I dispise Jamie Dukes. On NFL network he said that competition at the QB spot should never happen. Rather the incumbent should always be given their spot, otherwise it might cause team dissention. What a wanker. I guess the most important position on the team should just be given to someone, not earned???

jhns
05-25-2010, 09:53 AM
So...once again...you're a dumbass.

Your post doesn't even make sense. Name the last time the Pats picked a first round guy that wasn't intended to start. Show a first round pick they had that wasn't at a position of weakness.

As for the "this second" part. That is you. You are the one claiming that us not naming a new starter right now means something. It isn't like you know who will be starter when the season starts. I guess it is good that you are realizing how ridiculous you are.

So name some free agents that wanted to play for Josh and that are good. You seem to think you know something. Let's hear it. McNabb went were McNabb wanted to go. Wasn't he a trade anyways? You see, smart teams hold onto their QBs when they have a good one and there were no free agents that are good. The only good QBs that ever hit free agency are around 40. I bet you can't name 5 teams this decade that fixed their QB position through free agency. I bet you can't name one that fixed their QB situation with someone under 35, through free agency.

Beantown Bronco
09-29-2010, 12:09 PM
bump

This thread is pure comedy gold. Do yourself a favor and at least go through the first page or two again. Lot's of posts by jason in LA. Where is he BTW? Can't remember the last time I saw him post here. Outside of this thread, I normally like his posts.

enjolras
09-29-2010, 12:17 PM
I wasn't paying attention to the date.... I thought the mane had completely lost it's collective mind again:)

Rabb
09-29-2010, 12:19 PM
bump

This thread is pure comedy gold. Do yourself a favor and at least go through the first page or two again. Lot's of posts by jason in LA. Where is he BTW? Can't remember the last time I saw him post here. Outside of this thread, I normally like his posts.

wait until the Lakers start playing well, he will be here

worm
09-29-2010, 12:30 PM
wait until the Lakers start playing well, he will be here

Whatever bro. He explained why he hasnt been around in the Zona call out thread.

bronco militia
09-29-2010, 12:36 PM
who cares...this place can really suck sometimes

bronco militia
09-29-2010, 12:39 PM
bump

This thread is pure comedy gold. Do yourself a favor and at least go through the first page or two again. Lot's of posts by jason in LA. Where is he BTW? Can't remember the last time I saw him post here. Outside of this thread, I normally like his posts.

I don't have a problem with his posts on page 1 & 2

Beantown Bronco
09-29-2010, 12:42 PM
I don't have a problem with his posts on page 1 & 2

I just couldn't get past the "Broncos don't want him. No other team wants him" post.

bronco militia
09-29-2010, 12:46 PM
I just couldn't get past the "Broncos don't want him. No other team wants him" post.

the broncos traded their best RB (lol) for Brady friggen Quinn and drafted Tim Tebow. That's enough for me to have that POV

Br0nc0Buster
09-29-2010, 12:47 PM
the broncos traded their best RB (lol) for Brady friggen Quinn and drafted Tim Tebow. That's enough for me to have that POV

then they gave him an extension...

bronco militia
09-29-2010, 12:49 PM
then they gave him an extension...

those posts were made in May before the draft and before training camp.

Orton got a 1 year extension (lol) after Quinn stumbled through the pre-season.

Br0nc0Buster
09-29-2010, 12:51 PM
those posts were made in May before the draft and before training camp.

Orton got a 1 year extension (lol) after Quinn stumbled through the pre-season.

his extension was in the works before the preseason
Kyle said so himself

Beantown Bronco
09-29-2010, 12:52 PM
the broncos traded their best RB (lol) for Brady friggen Quinn and drafted Tim Tebow. That's enough for me to have that POV

Even then, the Quinn move was more an indictment of Simms than anything Orton did IMO. And Tebow was obviously a future pick. Not nearly saying "we don't want Orton in 2010". And, judging by the starting QBs out there today, and those already benched, I have a hard time believing nobody would've wanted Orton back in April/May if he was truly being dangled.

Rabb
09-29-2010, 01:42 PM
Whatever bro. He explained why he hasnt been around in the Zona call out thread.

it's called a joke dumb ass

HooptyHoops
09-29-2010, 02:25 PM
wow...I thought this was a new thread and thought everybody must have woke up on the wrong side of the bed today....took me a while(I don't have a firm grasp on the obvious) to look at the date!!

_Oro_
09-29-2010, 02:29 PM
I would certainly like to know how many QBs have thrown for 476 yards in a game. And out of those I would like to know how many turned out to be crappy QBs.

Cito Pelon
09-29-2010, 02:38 PM
Wait... You're saying the only way we'd trade Orton is if we got a 1st and 3rd? Holy hell, I hope not. That is beyond a pipe dream. That's flat-out ridiculous.

I'd be happy with a 4th at this point. Orton sucks.

Whoo boy . . . .

vancejohnson82
09-29-2010, 02:39 PM
elvis grbac, jake plummer, billy volek, tommy kramer, ken obrien

none, were really terrible (maybe Kramer)

oh, Tommy Maddox threw for 473 once

worm
09-29-2010, 02:41 PM
it's called a joke dumb ass

You are hilarious. No. Really.

Cito Pelon
09-29-2010, 02:48 PM
Exactly.

I knew this was where the conversation would turn. The whole "you want Orton to fail so you'll be right" shtick. The idea that people who dislike Orton (Or McDaniels, etc) want them to fail. That they want the Broncos to fail. It's so, so stupid.

I don't like Orton. I've made it pretty clear. That doesn't mean I wish the guy ill. If he proves me wrong, if he proves that I know nothing about the NFL, I will gladly eat my crow. A huge serving. Because that means the team that I've been supporting since birth was winning. I want to be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I want Orton to lead us to the promised land. Do I see it happening? No. But that doesn't mean that when the lights go on in September I'll be rooting against Orton or this team. I want so badly to be proven wrong. I will always root for the 22 guys on the field, always.

This idea that people who don't support Kyle Orton won't root for the team or will go into a "bigtime depression" is hilarious retarded.

Maybe they'll get their panties in a wad, snivel and cry month after month, then get on the bandwagon.

DHallblows
09-29-2010, 02:49 PM
You are hilarious. No. Really.

Why are you so butt hurt about it? ROFL!

worm
09-29-2010, 02:55 PM
Why are you so butt hurt about it? ROFL!

Cuz its Wed. :)

bronco militia
09-29-2010, 03:08 PM
I would certainly like to know how many QBs have thrown for 476 yards in a game. And out of those I would like to know how many turned out to be crappy QBs.

Head Butt Gus

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=33018

errand
09-29-2010, 03:12 PM
Wait... You're saying the only way we'd trade Orton is if we got a 1st and 3rd? Holy hell, I hope not. That is beyond a pipe dream. That's flat-out ridiculous.

I'd be happy with a 4th at this point. Orton sucks.

Yeah, cuz QB's with ratings over 97 suck. QB's who avg. 8.6 ypa suck. QB's whom complete almost 67% of their passes suck. QB's who average 354 yards per game suck.

I think we all know who really sucks.......

Jay3
09-29-2010, 03:15 PM
I would certainly like to know how many QBs have thrown for 476 yards in a game. And out of those I would like to know how many turned out to be crappy QBs.

Jon Kitna did it 3 times in 2006, twice in 2007 (with 2 other 400+) games. He was benched in 2008.

Sometimes, extremely high passing yardage totals are more indicative that a team has no running game, and has other problems.

Doesn't mean that Orton is Kitna, but I think the comparison could be apt. Kitna was pretty decent, won the starting job with three different teams and they kept drafting franchise quarterbacks for him to tutor.

errand
09-29-2010, 03:19 PM
So the Broncos don't really want Orton. No other team wants the guy, so the Broncos are kind of stuck with him. But some folks around here want him as the QB? I guess NFL GMs and coaches are wrong, but message board guys are right.


Amazing how when cutler got traded it didn't mean he sucked...but let a rumor of Orton possibly being dealt come out, and here we go again.

Clinton Portis had rushed for over 3,000 yards when we traded him to Washington for Champ Bailey.

So does that mean Portis sucked?

NO.

does that mean Washington believed Bailey sucked?

NO.

Does that mean that both teams wanted to try and improve their team?

YES.

You're always looking to improve the team as a head coach/GM/owner. It sometimes means trading very good but not great players.

errand
09-29-2010, 03:23 PM
Has nothing to do with Elway. I don't see why fans wanting good play from the QB position means that we're expecting another Elway.

Orton has a QB rating of 97....has thrown for over 1000 yards already, has a 2-1 TD to INT ratio, and averages almost 9 yards per attempt and over 350 yards per game.

And he's doing this I might add without a top notch WR like a Reggie Wayne or Andre Johnson, two rookies protecting him, and minus his #1 RB for one of the games.....and a secondary that couldn't cover me, let alone Austin Collie.

_Oro_
09-29-2010, 03:25 PM
Thanks for all the replies.

errand
09-29-2010, 03:28 PM
We have a middle-of-the-road QB, we have unknowns at RB, WR, and offensive line. We have 2 stars in the defensive secondary but we're still trying to rebuild the defensive front-7, and our special teams have notoriously been bad. And oh yeah, we had a coaching change on defense, to add to the chaos.



Looking at these admitted obstacles, and Orton's numbers...and yet you still think he's the problem?