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View Full Version : What are your Idea's on stoping the BP oil leak.


Quoydogs
05-12-2010, 10:20 AM
Meaning they have know Idea how to stop the oil leak. I would like to see some of the Ideas you all could come up with. I have a couple here goes.


#1 Why can't they just crush the end of the pipe causing a crimp? It may not seal it all the way but I think it would slow it enough till the other hole can be drilled.

#2 What about an explosion? What if a sub shot it with a torpedo. I think this is more or less how they closed the oil geyser in Iraq.

#3 What about just inserting a slightly smaller pipe into it. This also may not seal it completely but I imagine you could redirect around 70 to 80 percent of it.

bronco militia
05-12-2010, 10:27 AM
the oil and debris moving through the pipe is moving so fast that it's grinding away the pipe.


I think the well head/pipe is gone by now.

SoCalBronco
05-12-2010, 10:30 AM
http://cdn.picapp.com/ftp/Images/8/f/c/0/Gatorade_Duel_85a5.jpg

SonOfLe-loLang
05-12-2010, 10:35 AM
What next? Should we start asking the mane how best to land on pluto?

Quoydogs
05-12-2010, 10:36 AM
the oil and debris moving through the pipe is moving so fast that it's grinding away the pipe.


I think the well head/pipe is gone by now.

They just showed a photo of it on cnn. There has to be like 25 feet of pipe left. Possibly more.

Quoydogs
05-12-2010, 10:36 AM
http://cdn.picapp.com/ftp/Images/8/f/c/0/Gatorade_Duel_85a5.jpg

:thumbsup:

Quoydogs
05-12-2010, 10:38 AM
What next? Should we start asking the mane how best to land on pluto?

One thing I have learned from the mane, is that every person on here including myself knows everything. Also I have learned we are always right.

Smiling Assassin27
05-12-2010, 10:39 AM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:kr-PyJAjxcJJlM:http://redriverautographs.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/bruce-willis-armageddon-photograph-c10102105.jpg

Dude drilled a friggin' asteroid in space and detonated a nuclear warhead inside it to save Earth and its inhabitants. Oh wait, he died in said heroic attempt. Sorry. I'd go with Tebow.

broncosteven
05-12-2010, 10:42 AM
<a href="http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee74/broncosteven/?action=view&current=genekranz2.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee74/broncosteven/genekranz2.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Ask this guy. If he can save 3 men who are 255,000 miles from Earth he can devise a containment plan out of some plastic urine bags, garden hoses, and a sock.

bowtown
05-12-2010, 10:43 AM
Stuff it full of illegal immigrants.

SoCalBronco
05-12-2010, 10:44 AM
<a href="http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee74/broncosteven/?action=view&current=genekranz2.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee74/broncosteven/genekranz2.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Ask this guy. If he can save 3 men who are 255,000 miles from Earth he can devise a containment plan out of some plastic urine bags, garden hoses, and a sock.

Gene would redirect the oil leak........to Myrtle Beach.

55CrushEm
05-12-2010, 10:49 AM
Stuff it full of illegal immigrants.

Ha!

no-pseudo-fan
05-12-2010, 11:00 AM
giant wad of gum should do the trick

Man-Goblin
05-12-2010, 11:05 AM
What about the oil tanker bladder system? We were going to put an end to maritime oil spills.

no-pseudo-fan
05-12-2010, 11:14 AM
for real...they should get a bigger pipe and put it over the broken one, then weld it shut over top.

DeuceOfClub
05-12-2010, 11:14 AM
Stuff it full of illegal immigrants.

I was about to suggest the same thing, anyway, if that's doesn't work maybe they can force the pipe to watch "30 on 30" LA Raiders episode?

Beantown Bronco
05-12-2010, 11:20 AM
he can devise a containment plan out of some plastic urine bags, garden hoses, and a sock.

Sounds like a metaphor for your weekend bender back in the day at some dive motel when they ran unlimited "adult channel" access.

broncosteven
05-12-2010, 11:21 AM
I hope moving forward we get away from the Toyota "Just in time" model of cost cutting and get back to building and designing things with fall backs.

It just seems that between the Financial markets, Car gas pedals sticking, oil leaks, bridges and infrastructure crumbling that we as the human race are cutting things thin in order for a small % to be wealthy.

Maybe I am just a pessimist at heart.

Smiling Assassin27
05-12-2010, 11:26 AM
<a href="http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee74/broncosteven/?action=view&current=genekranz2.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee74/broncosteven/genekranz2.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Ask this guy. If he can save 3 men who are 255,000 miles from Earth he can devise a containment plan out of some plastic urine bags, garden hoses, and a sock.


At least MY guy's real... :thanku:

Que
05-12-2010, 11:26 AM
So here's the thing - it isn't as bad as it could be. Basically right now it is leaking not a full on pass through. The well isn't dispersing oil full bore. BP estimates that if this thing goes full bore open it would pump out 60,000 barrels a day. That's 12 times more than it is doing now. So doing things like crushing pipe etc scares the crap out of them because it actually might make it FAR worse.

This was one hell of a well.

So here is the one thing that I haven't heard anyone say but I imagine they're exploring the possibility if this thing goes full bore - tactical nuke. Delivering a tactical nuke to 5,000 feet and the resulting pressure is probably a pretty big engineering undertaking. Especially given the fact that they probably would want to embed the thing a couple of hundred feet into the sea floor. The resulting detonation would have to be of sufficient force to essentially cause the sea floor to shift to an extent that would cap the well.

The US has actually explored using tactical nukes in mining etc back in the 50's so it isn't completely uncharted 'water".

Fun stuff... not....

Doggcow
05-12-2010, 11:28 AM
Lol are you going to turn around and use these ideas for the essay for the $100,000 prize?

jhat01
05-12-2010, 11:29 AM
stuff it full of illegal immigrants.

rofl!

C130Herkload
05-12-2010, 11:30 AM
Send in Tebow, Chuck Norris and John Effin' Elway. The overpressure would be tremendous and the well would sieze up from fear. The mass crater damage to the sea floor would be extensive and there would be a genuine tsunami effect on a global scale. A truly frightning, but ultimately effective prospect.
If that isnt an option (and considering the massive catastrohphic environmental impact, it probably isnt...), I would just shoot a bunch of old tires, golf balls and frayed gym rope (and maybe my ex wife for good measure) in to the well and pray it clogs and seals itself off. Good luck BP....bunch of Jack-holes.

BTW...Gene Kranz is a BA.

Rohirrim
05-12-2010, 11:30 AM
Put a giant sump pump down there and pump it over to Venezuela.

Miss I.
05-12-2010, 11:32 AM
I know...I think we should show it this thread. ;D

Archer81
05-12-2010, 11:33 AM
Hmm...We could send Obama down to talk to the leak. I am sure if it understood the damage it was doing, it would surely stop.


:Broncos:

Broncoman13
05-12-2010, 11:37 AM
MacGruber!!!

Seriously though, they were on the right track the first time. The dome/funneling piece of the thing should have had hydraulics though. Lower it over the existing pipe with no resistance or opportunity for build up, then have hydraulics actuate the dome at a controlled rate until you fully taper to a funnel head. If there is build up, you simply actuate the dome, open it up a bit for the clots to dislodge and re-close. Is it that damn hard to figure out?

Que
05-12-2010, 11:37 AM
Actually, not to digress too much but I have a bit of experience with oil exploration. Drilling a well like this (this deep in the ocean) is something that takes years of planning and millions of dollars before you even get a rig floating over the site. This isn't wildcatting with a rig, 2 crews and a bank loan. This is really serious business. So with that being said, the rollercoaster of emotions with the BP project team must have been insane.

Huge investment, years of labor, HUGE find. The initial data that came in regarding the wells production and resulting valuation of the field must have been mind blowingly cool inside of BP. Like popping corks, high fives, Ivy League education for the kids, retire in three years and buying that summer house in Aspen cool. Then the explosion. The loss of life. Destruction of the rig. Boner shrinker.

Then this... a runaway spill that could cost BP 20% of its market cap and people like Interior Secretary Salazar saying things like, "the future existence of BP is at stake". I mean, one second you are on a project of a lifetime that just made your whole damn career and the next you are wondering if you'll ever work again, hiring bodyguards, and wondering if you just killed 11 people, destroyed 40% of the wetlands in the US and caused the downfall of one of the world's largest oil companies.

LRtagger
05-12-2010, 11:40 AM
http://www.flickscribe.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/macgyver.jpg

http://www.vexrobotics.com/media/catalog/product/cache/11/image/296x/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/2/7/276-1089-rubber-band.jpg

http://www.saidaonline.com/en/newsgfx/paperclip.jpg


Call it a day

Rohirrim
05-12-2010, 11:44 AM
http://kvcr.org/~/media/Images/SBCCD/KVCR/Concerts/Red%20Green.ashx?w=262&h=357&as=1

Smiling Assassin27
05-12-2010, 11:55 AM
Hmm...We could send Obama down to talk to the leak. I am sure if it understood the damage it was doing, it would surely stop.


:Broncos:

Yes, that'd be a fool-proof plan!

Sincerely,

The Chicago Olympic Committee, M. Ahmadinejad, Friends Of The Earth (Copenhagen Chapter)

Quoydogs
05-12-2010, 12:05 PM
So here's the thing - it isn't as bad as it could be. Basically right now it is leaking not a full on pass through. The well isn't dispersing oil full bore. BP estimates that if this thing goes full bore open it would pump out 60,000 barrels a day. That's 12 times more than it is doing now. So doing things like crushing pipe etc scares the crap out of them because it actually might make it FAR worse.

This was one hell of a well.

So here is the one thing that I haven't heard anyone say but I imagine they're exploring the possibility if this thing goes full bore - tactical nuke. Delivering a tactical nuke to 5,000 feet and the resulting pressure is probably a pretty big engineering undertaking. Especially given the fact that they probably would want to embed the thing a couple of hundred feet into the sea floor. The resulting detonation would have to be of sufficient force to essentially cause the sea floor to shift to an extent that would cap the well.

The US has actually explored using tactical nukes in mining etc back in the 50's so it isn't completely uncharted 'water".

Fun stuff... not....

I agree with the explosives but Nukes?? What are the fall out effects of a nuke under water? Is it anything like if it is air borne ? Would this cause more damage then just letting the oil spill.

Quoydogs
05-12-2010, 12:08 PM
Send in Tebow, Chuck Norris and John Effin' Elway. The overpressure would be tremendous and the well would sieze up from fear. The mass crater damage to the sea floor would be extensive and there would be a genuine tsunami effect on a global scale. A truly frightning, but ultimately effective prospect.
If that isnt an option (and considering the massive catastrohphic environmental impact, it probably isnt...), I would just shoot a bunch of old tires, golf balls and frayed gym rope (and maybe my ex wife for good measure) in to the well and pray it clogs and seals itself off. Good luck BP....bunch of Jack-holes.

BTW...Gene Kranz is a BA.

Although sending those 3 down there would work. It would also make the Parting of the red sea look like pocket change. The big easy and Florida would be wiped out and we can't have that.

C130Herkload
05-12-2010, 12:20 PM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:0aZp4DDYQLTJKM:http://www.freakingnews.

Im so getting banned for this.....

worm
05-12-2010, 12:36 PM
What we need is a demonpenz illustration to clarify the issue for BP and the government.

Quoydogs
05-12-2010, 12:36 PM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:0aZp4DDYQLTJKM:http://www.freakingnews.

Im so getting banned for this.....

Winner ! Hilarious!

Smiling Assassin27
05-12-2010, 01:19 PM
As long as we're committing bann-able offenses:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:5LhpS6lHfmFb1M:http://www.fwhc.org/birth-control/bc_images/diaphragm.jpg

Hamrob
05-12-2010, 01:30 PM
If you can't stop it...which, it doesn't look like they're having alot of success doing. They should try to contain it. Build a large (giant) container that wraps around it and seal it to the pipe.

cutthemdown
05-12-2010, 01:40 PM
Meaning they have know Idea how to stop the oil leak. I would like to see some of the Ideas you all could come up with. I have a couple here goes.


#1 Why can't they just crush the end of the pipe causing a crimp? It may not seal it all the way but I think it would slow it enough till the other hole can be drilled.

#2 What about an explosion? What if a sub shot it with a torpedo. I think this is more or less how they closed the oil geyser in Iraq.

#3 What about just inserting a slightly smaller pipe into it. This also may not seal it completely but I imagine you could redirect around 70 to 80 percent of it.

1-pipe is already crimped in several spots from the rig falling and the explosion.

2-An explosion doesn't close a well, only puts out a fire so they can cap it.

3-it wouldn't be a smaller pipe, it would be a bigger one slipped over it, with a new valve to shut off flow, or a pipe taking oil somewhere else.

cutthemdown
05-12-2010, 01:41 PM
What would nuking the thing do? LOL that would be worst for the environment then the oil. Besides I'm still not seeing how blowing millions of gallons of oil into a vapor cloud of nuclear dust is a smart idea.

Seriously

cutthemdown
05-12-2010, 01:43 PM
The best idea is a relief well, that relieves the pressure, so the can fit a larger pipe over the broken one, and then shut it off when the pressure drops.

It's probably the only way. They aren't going to fix it until the relief well is drilled.

cutthemdown
05-12-2010, 01:45 PM
MacGruber!!!

Seriously though, they were on the right track the first time. The dome/funneling piece of the thing should have had hydraulics though. Lower it over the existing pipe with no resistance or opportunity for build up, then have hydraulics actuate the dome at a controlled rate until you fully taper to a funnel head. If there is build up, you simply actuate the dome, open it up a bit for the clots to dislodge and re-close. Is it that damn hard to figure out?

Actually yes. Working at 1 mile underwater even hydrolics will fail. The pressure is immense and the technology for a huge underwater hydrolic door does not yet probably exist fast enough to do your idea.

I'm not an engineer though, but my dad was and told me often working on the sea floor really deep much like being in space as far as difficulty goes.

So much pressure, so little time, so much oil, it's tougher then we all think probably.

cutthemdown
05-12-2010, 01:47 PM
What next? Should we start asking the mane how best to land on pluto?

It's funny how smart we all think we are.

The pressure at that depth can crush things like a tin can. The sand and debris in the oil stream is like a sandblaster.

It's a huge mess and I now agree with Spider. They don't stop this thing for months. Not until they drill the other well and relieve the pressure.

They knew the dome would not work, but poilitically BP had to try things out of the norm to see if it would work.

cmhargrove
05-12-2010, 01:57 PM
Look out beloooooooooow!

Rohirrim
05-12-2010, 02:01 PM
Hate to be the one to state the obvious, but has anybody thought of this?

http://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~tnguye172/images/bathtub1.jpg

Que
05-12-2010, 02:01 PM
What would nuking the thing do? LOL that would be worst for the environment then the oil. Besides I'm still not seeing how blowing millions of gallons of oil into a vapor cloud of nuclear dust is a smart idea.

Seriously

Oh ya tell me about it. What you would have to do is make sure the force of the detonation would be sufficient to cause the sea floor to shift and essentially collapse the well underground. Don't get me wrong, it is a total worst case scenario. You could probably accomplish the same thing by a large conventional detonation underground via the shaft of the relief well. But if this thing starts spewing 60,000 or 100,000 barrels per day with a relief well being 80 days away, well, you gotta do something. *boggles*

On your other post, ya, you are spot on. The only way to truly solve the problem is with a relief well. I know they've started drilling but that's going to be measured in months. I was talking with a PE who does offshore directional drilling and he described it as trying to paint a Monet with a paint brush taped to a 30 foot pole while riding a horse. Granted, he was probably over stating the thing but what is amazing is how precise directional drilling is these days that we can even attempt something like this.

Essentially they're trying to hit a 18 inch pipe from a platform floating one mile above and probably a mile or two away horizontally after drilling a couple of thousand feet below the seafloor. Amazing.

Broncoman13
05-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Actually yes. Working at 1 mile underwater even hydrolics will fail. The pressure is immense and the technology for a huge underwater hydrolic door does not yet probably exist fast enough to do your idea.

I'm not an engineer though, but my dad was and told me often working on the sea floor really deep much like being in space as far as difficulty goes.

So much pressure, so little time, so much oil, it's tougher then we all think probably.

No doubt tougher than we think... hard to put into perspective what the pressure would be like but there are systems out there right now that operate at 10000+ psi, you would think that would operate under the harshest of conditions. The bigger issue is the time it would take to fabricate the system and have it function with any level of reliability. As far as ideas go though, that is by far better than nuking the thing! ;D

UberBroncoMan
05-12-2010, 02:20 PM
What next? Should we start asking the mane how best to land on pluto?

Can you honestly think of any other community in the world that is more qualified for such epic endeavors?

Broncoman13
05-12-2010, 02:22 PM
I think the idea of plugging the main leak will only lead to additional problems. There are already two other leaks (that I know of, may be more now). You plug the main pressure escape and the other leaks will suffer. That's why I thought the "junk" idea was absurd.

bowtown
05-12-2010, 02:27 PM
Can you honestly think of any other community in the world that is more qualified for such epic endeavors?

Chief's Planet Top 5 Ideas:

1. "My dick."

2. "Gulf of Whatxico?"

3. "Shut up Mom, I'm thinkin!"

4. "I got a cousin likes to be greased up."

5. "Charlie Weiss."

baja
05-12-2010, 02:42 PM
Give Boob a large scuba tank and have him sit on it.

Stuff the pipe with Wonder bread.

Call in Sara Palin she will reroute it to Alaska

Let GWB Shock & Awe it.

Sell the rights to the oil for a dollar to who ever can harness it.

ghwk
05-12-2010, 03:16 PM
I would put these guys on it. Fixed tomorrow.

briane
05-12-2010, 07:27 PM
http://standupforamerica.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/shamwow-guy.jpg

GreatBronco16
05-12-2010, 07:51 PM
Hmm...We could send Obama down to talk to the leak. I am sure if it understood the damage it was doing, it would surely stop.


:Broncos:


Actually, it heard Obama speak and thought it was time for a 'Change'

chadta
05-12-2010, 08:07 PM
threads like this remind me why i love you guys

im torn between the tampon and the shamwow, with the big boobs being a close third

now for the canadian solution, poutine, and back bacon, that stuff plugs up arteries, why not oil wells ?

Taco John
05-12-2010, 08:23 PM
So here's the thing - it isn't as bad as it could be. Basically right now it is leaking not a full on pass through. The well isn't dispersing oil full bore. BP estimates that if this thing goes full bore open it would pump out 60,000 barrels a day. That's 12 times more than it is doing now. So doing things like crushing pipe etc scares the crap out of them because it actually might make it FAR worse.

This was one hell of a well.

So here is the one thing that I haven't heard anyone say but I imagine they're exploring the possibility if this thing goes full bore - tactical nuke. Delivering a tactical nuke to 5,000 feet and the resulting pressure is probably a pretty big engineering undertaking. Especially given the fact that they probably would want to embed the thing a couple of hundred feet into the sea floor. The resulting detonation would have to be of sufficient force to essentially cause the sea floor to shift to an extent that would cap the well.

The US has actually explored using tactical nukes in mining etc back in the 50's so it isn't completely uncharted 'water".

Fun stuff... not....


This strikes me as a terrible idea. No offense intended.

Taco John
05-12-2010, 08:29 PM
http://go635254.s3.amazonaws.com/ecochildsplay/files/2008/09/dawn-soap.gif

uplink
05-13-2010, 01:38 AM
before opening this thread I guessed it would take 4 posts to get to the Tebow answer, it only took 3 so I underestimated Tebow again.

Rohirrim
05-13-2010, 01:42 AM
Here's the first video of the pipe:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/05/12/bp.crater.plume.gassing.clean.cnn?hpt=C2

Rohirrim
05-14-2010, 07:17 AM
Oops! Now it appears that BP was lying through its teeth when they estimated the spill at 5,000 barrels per day. It's more likely ten time that number, which means it has already exceeded the worst spill in history.

A researcher at Purdue University said BP's estimate on the oil leak was very low. Associate Professor Steve Wereley predicted that about 70,000 barrels of oil per day are gushing into the Gulf after analyzing video of the spill.

Wereley said he arrived at that number after spending two hours Thursday analyzing video of a spill using a technique called particle image velocimetry. He said there is a 20 percent margin of error, which means between 56,000 and 84,000 barrels could be leaking daily.

"You can't say with precision, but you can see there's definitely more coming out of that pipe than people thought. It's definitely not 5,000 barrels a day," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/14/gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T2

This is going to take much more duct tape than I originally thought.

Rohirrim
05-14-2010, 08:25 AM
Here's the latest insight into the mindof the global corporate ceo mind-set:

Tony Hayward, the beleaguered chief executive of BP, has claimed its oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is "relatively tiny" compared with the "very big ocean".

"The Gulf of Mexico is a very big ocean. The amount of volume of oil and dispersant we are putting into it is tiny in relation to the total water volume," he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/13/bp-boss-admits-mistakes-gulf-oil-spill

You just gotta love these guys. It's their planet. We're just living on it.

DenverBrit
05-14-2010, 08:45 AM
Here's the latest insight into the mindof the global corporate ceo mind-set:

Tony Hayward, the beleaguered chief executive of BP, has claimed its oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is "relatively tiny" compared with the "very big ocean".

"The Gulf of Mexico is a very big ocean. The amount of volume of oil and dispersant we are putting into it is tiny in relation to the total water volume," he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/13/bp-boss-admits-mistakes-gulf-oil-spill

You just gotta love these guys. It's their planet. We're just living on it.

Sometimes I'm not sure on which planet these oil companies actually live. 8')

chadta
05-14-2010, 09:24 AM
"The Gulf of Mexico is a very big ocean. The amount of volume of oil and dispersant we are putting into it is tiny in relation to the total water volume," he said..

that may be true, BUT, and this is a big but, lets look at total area not volumn of that ocean, cuz all the oil is floating to the top, who cares if 98% of the ocean is clean if you have to go threw a layer of oil to get to it. Just goes to show you can spin stats to look any way you like, heck people here still spin cutlers stats to make it sound like hes a good quarterback ;D

Ugly Duck
05-14-2010, 09:31 AM
What would nuking the thing do?

I heard that its worked 5 out of 6 times for Russia.

LRtagger
05-14-2010, 09:38 AM
Here's the latest insight into the mindof the global corporate ceo mind-set:

Tony Hayward, the beleaguered chief executive of BP, has claimed its oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is "relatively tiny" compared with the "very big ocean".

"The Gulf of Mexico is a very big ocean. The amount of volume of oil and dispersant we are putting into it is tiny in relation to the total water volume," he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/13/bp-boss-admits-mistakes-gulf-oil-spill

You just gotta love these guys. It's their planet. We're just living on it.

So if I kick him in the dick 50,000 times a day, it's no big deal right because it is tiny in relation to his entire body.

baja
05-14-2010, 09:44 AM
Here's the latest insight into the mindof the global corporate ceo mind-set:

Tony Hayward, the beleaguered chief executive of BP, has claimed its oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is "relatively tiny" compared with the "very big ocean".

"The Gulf of Mexico is a very big ocean. The amount of volume of oil and dispersant we are putting into it is tiny in relation to the total water volume," he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/13/bp-boss-admits-mistakes-gulf-oil-spill

You just gotta love these guys. It's their planet. We're just living on it.

He would be right if....





OIL & WATER MIXED

Remember the CEO of one of the largest petroleum companies in the world that said this. Is he that stupid or is it that he thinks we are that stupid?

Quoydogs
05-14-2010, 09:47 AM
So now they are going to try and wedge a small pipe in the big pipe. Which I stated before I think is the best possible temporary solution. However there Idea is to wedge a 6" pipe into a pipe that is 16". How the hell is that going to work. Why don't they use a 14" or 15" pipe? to wedge inside of it.

PRBronco
05-14-2010, 09:51 AM
Here's the latest insight into the mindof the global corporate ceo mind-set:

Tony Hayward, the beleaguered chief executive of BP, has claimed its oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is "relatively tiny" compared with the "very big ocean".

"The Gulf of Mexico is a very big ocean. The amount of volume of oil and dispersant we are putting into it is tiny in relation to the total water volume," he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/13/bp-boss-admits-mistakes-gulf-oil-spill

You just gotta love these guys. It's their planet. We're just living on it.

Lol, fancy way of saying "the solution to pollution is dilution".

baja
05-14-2010, 09:53 AM
So now they are going to try and wedge a small pipe in the big pipe. Which I stated before I think is the best possible temporary solution. However there Idea is to wedge a 6" pipe into a pipe that is 16". How the hell is that going to work. Why don't they use a 14" or 15" pipe? to wedge inside of it.

Do you realize the pressures that the oil & debris are spewing out of that pipe?

Turn you hose bib on full blast and try to put the hose with the threaded connector cut off on the open faucet now add rocks coming out with the water to the visualization .

Houshyamama
05-14-2010, 09:59 AM
I typed in "Finger in the Dyke" in Google Images to put up a moderately amusing picture of a Dutch kid with his finger in the dyke as my solution to the problem... but I got different results than I expected.

Rohirrim
05-14-2010, 11:26 AM
I typed in "Finger in the Dyke" in Google Images to put up a moderately amusing picture of a Dutch kid with his finger in the dyke as my solution to the problem... but I got different results than I expected.

Hilarious! I'll bet you did.

ghwk
05-14-2010, 12:39 PM
We could stuff the leak with the extra "p" you left out when spelling "stoping" in the thread title?

No? Ok, just a thought.

Quoydogs
05-14-2010, 01:12 PM
We could stuff the leak with the extra "p" you left out when spelling "stoping" in the thread title?

No? Ok, just a thought.

Kis M ss ! What letters are missing now? :poke:

Boobs McGee
05-17-2010, 10:08 AM
Here are some of the latest ideas...

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'<a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-may-13-2010/there-will-be-blame'>There Will Be Blame<a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:309167' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/videos/tag/Tea+Party'>Tea Party</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Durango
05-17-2010, 10:18 AM
During the 1990's there was a catastrophic spill in the Persian Gulf.

Immediately, several countries dispatched a half dozen supertankers to the area and started a process of sucking the oil into the storage bays of the supertankers. Once full of oil and water, the tanker docked at various ports and unloaded the water/oil, where it was separated. The tanker then returned to the spill area and started the same process over and over until 90-95% of the oil was removed from the water.

There was some serious environmental damage despite the efforts, but in the intervening years, the intense clean-up has removed 99% of all traces of the spill.

In the Gulf spill resulting from the platform explosion and collapse, these people have been fumbling around in the dark for weeks with goofy trial and error solutions that have brought extremely limited success.

Get the supertankers out there and start sucking up the oil. It has already proven to work with a spill larger than this one.

Quoydogs
05-17-2010, 10:26 AM
Here are some of the latest ideas...

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'<a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-may-13-2010/there-will-be-blame'>There Will Be Blame<a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:309167' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/videos/tag/Tea+Party'>Tea Party</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Dude I think I blew an O-ring on that. Who would ever thought the truth could make you laugh so hard. :giggle:

Boobs McGee
05-17-2010, 10:44 AM
LOL i know right? It's sad but hilarious :thumbs:

broncocalijohn
05-17-2010, 11:46 AM
Did anyone mention to put Jamarcus Russell over the leak? That fat slob can finally give back to Louisiana since he wont be signed by the Saints. If not, has boob put that natural blubber weight back on? Just tell him to hold his breath.

Rohirrim
05-17-2010, 12:51 PM
His new nickname is "Jacarcass."

skunk
05-17-2010, 12:56 PM
i dont think it should be stopped. they should build a big wall between florida and texas and pump all the water out. then pump the oil out and make gas. then build new cities and stuff in the hole, maybe call it "oil town" or something, could have slogan of "oil have osome of that" etc.

epic oil :thanku:

OrangenBlueOhio
05-17-2010, 02:40 PM
Read some not all, what about grass clippings? We sure have enough of those this time of year. Let me know where to mail mine.

Que
05-17-2010, 05:29 PM
Okay, see? I am not crazy. At least, I am not completely crazy. They've nuked undersea wells before. Not saying we should - only that it is an option that might work.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-05-16/nuke-the-oil-spill/?om_rid=DuNRkK&om_mid=_BL8TOEB8InkHEq&

On Monday, the Interior Department's top offshore drilling regulator announced he will be stepping down (http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/top-offshore-regulator-quits-his-post/gulf-disaster/?cid=cs:headline11), after criticisms of his cozy relationship with industry officials. The White House will also be creating an independent paneL to investigate the spill.

On Day 1 of the BP spill in the Gulf of Mexico, my gut instinct was to nuke the well shut. This was not simply an aggressive urge to brandish the most beastly of weapons in our mighty American arsenal, but a serious way to snuff out an enormous problem that grows worse by the day.
For more than 100 years, explosives have been used to break the necks of runaway oil wells, snapping the long, narrow columns and sealing them shut with tons and tons of rock. Over the last several days, our 24-hour news cycle has pumped us full of excruciating details about the failed efforts to siphon, cap off, and ultimately recover the oil that is gushing into the Gulf. The latest nonsense and false hope, a mile-long pipe designed to divert some of the oil flow, is like putting a 4-inch straw into a 22-inch-diameter fire hose. It's a sordid attempt by BP at drinking its own milkshake. But the problem with this disaster response is that the ideas BP has brought to the table all seem to ignore the simplest solution: permanently destroying the well.

The ideas BP has brought to the table all seem to ignore the simplest solution: permanently destroying the well. BP’s incentives are obvious. A deep-sea oil well costs hundreds of millions of dollars to drill, so the company prefers to bumble through never-before-tried recovery efforts than destroy its investment. Furthermore, BP is probably hedging its bets—if it loses this well, lawmakers will likely ban it from drilling there again. In other words, if BP loses the well, it loses both the enormous sunk costs of drilling it and the expected cash flow from all the remaining oil. Thus, even in the midst of this crisis, BP appears to be just as concerned with protecting its shareholders as with stopping this catastrophe.

Enough is enough. It’s time to destroy the well and put the matter to rest.
BP is probably not equipped for this kind of demolition. However, there are two major organizations in the world that have highly developed skills at demolishing things—the U.S. and Russian militaries. On Thursday, my gut instinct for nuking shut the well was confirmed when CNN reported that the Soviet military had used nuclear explosives on four separate occasions, beginning in 1966, to seal off runaway oil and gas wells under water. The practice was well documented by the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, one of our nuclear-weapons facilities.

But using nuclear weapons, even for peaceful purposes, would be problematic for a president who stood in Prague and declared that the world should rid itself of such devices. If President Obama were to use a nuke to close this well, he would give other states an excuse to seek nuclear weapons of their own. After all, it was an argument for “peaceful nuclear explosions” that allowed India to justify its acquisition of nuclear weapons in the 1970s. We don’t need Iran making the same argument tomorrow. The dilemma seems clear: Either Obama leaves BP in charge of managing its own short-term interests, or he can take charge and stop this spill immediately by pulling the trigger on a nuclear option with severe political and environmental aftershocks.

But there could be be a third option that Obama might bring to the table, once we recognize that BP is just as concerned about salvaging its precious asset as it is about stopping the spill. Our military could potentially use a carefully placed combination of conventional explosives to collapse the well. Our technology is much better than that of the Soviet Union in 1966, so we should be able to make this work without having to go nuclear. I’m confident that the U.S. Navy, the Army Corps of Engineers, and some private-sector organizations could come together and make this happen. The only question is whether Obama will be bold enough to take charge of this problem at the risk of his presidency slipping down the deep, dark well.
Christopher Brownfield is a former nuclear submarine officer, an Iraq veteran, and a visiting scholar on nuclear policy at Columbia University. He is the author of My Nuclear Family (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0307271692/thedaibea-20/), to be published by Alfred A. Knopf in September.

Taco John
05-18-2010, 09:00 AM
In a situation like this, we must call on our best and our brightest to carry the day.

Bring on Kevin Costner!


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Rohirrim
05-18-2010, 10:56 AM
Why not bring in Sarah Palin? She has an answer for everything.

colonelbeef
05-18-2010, 11:23 AM
Simple- make the fines so large that BP, Halliburton, and Transocean have no choice but to throw every resource they have towards ending the leak immediately.

Que
05-18-2010, 02:41 PM
Why not bring in Sarah Palin? She has an answer for everything.

Junk Shot + Sarah Palin = Nothing but net. Its gotta work.

Arkie
05-18-2010, 02:45 PM
Their technique works.

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baja
05-18-2010, 02:46 PM
Gulf Oil Leaks Could Gush for Years

"We don't have any idea how to stop this," expert says.

If efforts fail to cap the leaking Deepwater Horizon wellhead in the Gulf of Mexico (map), oil could gush for years—poisoning coastal habitats for decades, experts say.

(See satellite pictures of the Gulf oil spill's evolution.)

Last week the joint federal-industry task force charged with managing the spill tried unsuccessfully to lower a 93-ton containment dome (pictures) over one of three ruptures in the rig's downed pipe.

Crystals of methane hydrates in the freezing depths clogged an opening on the box, preventing it from funneling the spouting oil up to a waiting ship.

Watch video of the failed attempt to cap the leaking pipe.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100513-science-environment-gulf-oil-spill-cap-leak/

Que
05-18-2010, 03:09 PM
Their technique works.

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Okay, you have to laugh at the southern drawling overall wearing goofs. But... once you get over that let's actually take a look at their solution.

1. Assuming the hay will stay floating until it can be picked up
2. Assume that he poured 1 cup of oil in each bowl
3. Assume he used 1/4 pound of hay in each bowl (that what's he said)
4. Assume that the well has been shooting out 200,000 gallons a day. 30 days @ 6,000,000 gallons or 96,000,000 cups for those of your keeping score at home.

Then, it would require approximately 24 million pounds of hay to clean up the oil already in the ocean. Wow, that sounds nutty doesn't it? Well, the average small bale of hay weighs between 60 and 130 pounds depending on the hay, its moisture content and the setting on the baler. So, let's assume we are going to use the driest of the hay... 60 pounds per bale.

That would require 400,000 bales of hay or 24,000,000 pounds. That's 12,000 tons of hay. The US production of hay is 150 million tons. So it isn't like we don't have enough. So as silly as it sounds coming from two guys better suited to get drunk at a NASCAR race, they actually have a plausible solution.

Even if the spill is 10X the 200,000 gallon a day estimate, that's only 120,000 tons of hay. That's only 0.08% of the domestic production.

Granted, we should probably stop hammering the oil with dispersant so we can have the hay soak it up. Then you have a problem on what to do with the oil laden hay but hay, we have that problem anyhow.

Bored today... just thought I would share.

Taco John
05-18-2010, 03:11 PM
I think we should use that guy's overalls to soak up all the oil.

DenverBrit
05-18-2010, 04:21 PM
Okay, you have to laugh at the southern drawling overall wearing goofs. But... once you get over that let's actually take a look at their solution.

1. Assuming the hay will stay floating until it can be picked up
2. Assume that he poured 1 cup of oil in each bowl
3. Assume he used 1/4 pound of hay in each bowl (that what's he said)
4. Assume that the well has been shooting out 200,000 gallons a day. 30 days @ 6,000,000 gallons or 96,000,000 cups for those of your keeping score at home.

Then, it would require approximately 24 million pounds of hay to clean up the oil already in the ocean. Wow, that sounds nutty doesn't it? Well, the average small bale of hay weighs between 60 and 130 pounds depending on the hay, its moisture content and the setting on the baler. So, let's assume we are going to use the driest of the hay... 60 pounds per bale.

That would require 400,000 bales of hay or 24,000,000 pounds. That's 12,000 tons of hay. The US production of hay is 150 million tons. So it isn't like we don't have enough. So as silly as it sounds coming from two guys better suited to get drunk at a NASCAR race, they actually have a plausible solution.

Even if the spill is 10X the 200,000 gallon a day estimate, that's only 120,000 tons of hay. That's only 0.08% of the domestic production.

Granted, we should probably stop hammering the oil with dispersant so we can have the hay soak it up. Then you have a problem on what to do with the oil laden hay but hay, we have that problem anyhow.

Bored today... just thought I would share.

I saw another take on this.........different conclusion though.

As most engineers know, "Everyone has a brilliant idea that will not work." And this is one of them, although we must commend these two gentlemen for trying.

Hay absorbs water just as readily as oil. There are EPA-approved products that absorb only oil, even in water, for example HTP. But for this discussion we'll assume hay will absorb only the oil.

The area of the spill now exceeds 6,000 sq. miles and more than 11 million gallons of oil are in the sea (link).

That means that the weight of the oil in the water is just over 40,000 tons (7.29 lbs/gallon).

Let's assume it takes only 2 ounces of hay per sq. ft. of oil, which seems reasonable, requiring one pound of hay per eight sq. ft.

Six thousand sq. miles of oil is 172,232,755,200 square feet. That will require 21,529,094,400 pounds of hay to absorb. Note that these are billions figures. That amount of hay is 10,764,547 tons.

So you're going to transport almost eleven million tons of hay to sea to absorb 40,000 tons of oil.

Then, after the hay has absorbed the oil, the oil is still in the water. Only instead of having to deal with (a mere) 40,000 tons of oil alone, you've got to scoop up 10,804,619 tons of oil-sodden hay.

I admire these men's earnestness, but this is not a plan.

Let's do the cube, too. A bale of hay is compacted by a hay baling machine and can weigh between 60-130 pounds, depending on the machine's settings. Let's use the high figure. This hay bale measures 48 inches by 18 by 18, giving a volume of 15,552 cubic inches, or 9 cubic feet.

So: the volume of cargo capacity to transport the hay to the spill is 1,490,475,766 cubic feet. For planning purposes, cargo vessels use 100 cubic feet of volume to equal one metric ton of weight. Confusingly, this measure mixes English and metric systems and also uses the word "ton" to refer to the 100 cubic feet. In merchant-vessel terminology, a metric ton, or tonne, is referred to as a deadweight tonne (DWT) and equals 1,000 kilograms, hence one metric ton. ("Tonne" means 1,000 KG so "metric tonne" is redundant; in the US the term, "metric ton" is usually used instead of "tonne.")

It takes 11.11 bales of hay to fill 100 cubic feet, and the bales do not weigh a tonne, they weigh 1,444.44 pounds, or 655 kg. In other words, any vessel carrying hay would "cube out" before it would "weight out" - it would run out of space for the hay before it met its weight limit.

To carry all 165,608,418 bales of hay for the job would require 14,904,758 tons of volume (14,904,758 units of 100 cubic feet). A single modern Handymax bulk-cargo vessel has a capacity of about 55,000 DWT, but would cube out with hay at 4,950,000 bales. Hence, transporting 165.6 million hay bales to the spill area would require 33 Handymax ships. That's a tiny fraction of the number of Handymax ships in the world, of course, and certainly well within the harbor capacity of Gulf ports to handle. So simply carrying the hay to the spill appears to pose little logistic problem, but recovering it from the sea is an enormous problem since cargo vessels are entirely unequipped to do so. So what is these gentlemen's plan to do that?

We always must remember to think the problem all the way through. I mean no disrespect to these two gentlemen, truly, but they did not do so.

http://senseofevents.blogspot.com/2010/05/hay-for-oil-spill-is-no-plan.html

watermock
05-18-2010, 04:32 PM
The spill is partiallty stemmed, all is quiet now on the news.

I blame the dinosaurs.

watermock
05-18-2010, 04:37 PM
BP is hiding the oil undersea with chemicals.

Certain microbes eat oil, I hope those chemicals don't twart them.

Archer81
05-18-2010, 04:51 PM
a Jalepeno on a stick. Thats how.


:Broncos:

baja
05-18-2010, 04:58 PM
BP is hiding the oil undersea with chemicals.

Certain microbes eat oil, I hope those chemicals don't twart them.

whales eat oil if you send down some lettuce.

tewart is on my tenose.

watermock
05-18-2010, 07:05 PM
Bullshiat.

baja
05-18-2010, 09:12 PM
"Something Happened"

By James Howard Kunstler for Cluster**** Nation

Everybody in the world is broke, except for maybe Lloyd Blankfein, and he may not end up broke so much as broken -- by a political meat-grinder that is revving up to turn the world's woes and swindles into a new kind of Long Emergency sausage, to be distributed among the roiling, angry masses as a synthetic substitute for nutriment. Call it a synthetic non-collateralized political obligation.

Something snapped in the world last week and a lot of people around the world sensed it -- especially in the organs of news and opinion -- but this ominous twang was not very clearly identified. It was, in fact, the sound of the financial becoming political. The macro-swindle of a worldwide Ponzi orgy now stands revealed and the vacuum left in its place is about to suck everything familiar into it -- standards-of-living, hopes, dreams, not to mention lives. The political action will be a desperate scramble to determine who and what is able to escape getting sucked into this black hole of annihilation. It's very suddenly shaping up to become an epic in human history.

Meanwhile, a giant oil blob lies quivering in deep waters off the Gulf coast, like some awful amorphous Moby Dick full of malice waiting to sink Pequod America -- or at least the economies of five states. A few months from now, the BP corporation will wonder why it didn't go into something safe and predictable like the pants business instead of oil exploration. They will surely question the viability of conducting future business anywhere near the USA, and the USA will enter a wilderness of soul-searching about the drill-baby-drill strategy that only a few scant weeks ago seemed to be a settled matter. Tough to have your future hoped-for energy supplies evaporate at the same time that your hopes for future prosperity get sucked into a black hole.

I've maintained for a long time that the folks down Dixie way are the the most dangerously crazy people in America and the Deepwater Horizon oil blob is not going to improve their outlook when it slops over their beaches and bayous. They'll blame Obama for it by syllogism. Anyway, they are only marginally more crazy than the rest of the folks in the USA. Those folks are warming up for an election season that is going to send a horde of exterminating angels into the halls of congress and the governor's mansions, and before too long those merchants of retribution are going to appoint their inquisitors. It's going to be a heckuva spectacle. In retrospect, Mary Shapiro's SEC will look like the Council of Trent. You can be sure that if ten gallons of gasoline remain to be found in America a few years from now, they will power the last GMC Sierra to drag the captains of Wall Street through the sawgrass prairies of Collier County, Florida.

What has gone on in Europe the past few weeks is nothing more complicated than a waking-up to how broke they are. We're not quite there yet on this side of the Atlantic. They fired one last bazooka of wishfulness at the enveloping monster of debt and the monster laughed at them, and now they are standing in the windows of palatial edifice of the Euro Union waiting to see who will jump first. Here in the USA, we're still dazed and confused. What for a long time had looked like a game of musical chairs is morphing into something more like a national Chinese fire drill, a pointless running around in circles in the hope that sheer motion will be an adequate substitute for conscious action. In any case, both Europe and the USA are out of bazooka ammo now. Nobody can bail out so much as another lemonade stand. From here on governments really start to crumble.

As in any time of severe turmoil, all political bets are off. There are insinuations in the press, for instance, that the communists will rise up in Greece and overthrow the elected government. That's rich, since communism was flushed down the human race's credibility toilet twenty years ago. The Greek opposition may even call themselves communists, but what on earth could they mean by that? There are no "means of production" left in a country whose economy consists solely of cab-drivers, bellboys, and waiters. There's no "wealth" to redistribute, only the pain of collective economic loss when the tourists stop landing.
Elsewhere in Europe, each national house is being outfitted with a procrustean bed of austerity. The various publics are not going to like lying in them. They ain't no Tempurpedics. History being the shape-shifting demon that it is, I imagine that this time around the Brits will be the ones who elect Nazis --or something like them -- while the still-chastened Germans find themselves in the odd position of becoming Europe's moral guardian -- its sole-surviving "good parent" figure, striving to maintain some residue of collective goodwill in Europe's once-ritzy gated community. Great historical figures always arise from unexpected places -- Corsica, Kentucky. Maybe some great unifying leader even now warms a seat in a Norwegian law school.

God knows what the Europeans will make of the helter-skelter scene playing out here in the States. Perhaps some species of schadenfreude tinged with regret for the missing stream of tourists. My own guess is that there may not even be a president of the US after Mr. Obama. Rather, events will get so gnarly and disordered so fast that somebody like General Patraeus will have to step in for a while and keep the reincarnation of the Ku Klux Klan from trying to murder every non-Cracker from sea to shining sea. Of course, once that happens, we probably don't go back. It's not Imperial Rome (release 2.0) after that, either, because even the mighty US military will be too strapped for a means of support to continue operating. Instead, it's the devolution of the US into functionally autonomous regions and states -- and even that scale of governance may be too great for the stringent economic realities of the years ahead.

There remains, of course, the very great question of what the rest of people of the world -- the non-Western world -- do as the West spins into insolvency and tribulation. The Islamists will do everything possible to make things worse, and there's a lot they can do, from restricting their oil exports (maybe cutting them off altogether) to provoking the immigrant populations of Europe into political violence to possibly setting a few nukes off in their enemy's front yard.

The Chinese will affect to referee the collapse of the West, but soon they'll be sucked into their own implosion of population overshoot and resource scarcity. India you can forget about out -- zero oil. Russia gets to kick back in glorious isolation and enjoy the methane fumes of the melting tundra. South America will heed the wise words of a forgotten 18th Century Viceroy of Mexico who explained his method of administration thusly: "Do little, and do it slowly!"

The Long Emergency has now up-shifted to second gear. Wouldn't you know it, I have to go to Europe at the end of the month. And I'm supposed to get paid in Euros -- oh, snap! This week I'll be cavorting with my homeys, the Congress for the New Urbanism, at their annual jamboree in Atlanta (ugh!) and will be reporting on the doings there in this space next Monday.

baja
05-18-2010, 09:22 PM
It's not just spilt oil.