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BroncoSojia
05-09-2010, 08:47 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15047949

Paige: Broncos need to pull trigger on Orton trade
By Woody Paige
The Denver Post
POSTED: 05/09/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT


Kyle Orton passed for 3,802 yards and 21 TDs last season. (Joe Amon, The Denver Post)
For the development of Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow and Tom Brandstater, for fairness to Kyle Orton, for the benefit of the other Broncos, for the future of the franchise, for the fans in Bronco Country, for goodness' sake, Orton must be traded.

Orton is not a short-term fix or a long-range fit for the Broncos.

A deal should be sought, in my opinion, before the team's voluntary minicamp May 17-19 — so the Broncos and Orton can move on now.

Josh McDaniels, it has been asserted, has been joined at one hip with Tebow and, to the other, with Quinn, but, truthfully, his coaching reign in Denver can't be tied to Orton.

McDaniels is better off putting his trust in, and his teaching toward, Young QBT and QB3 — Quinn, Brandstater & Tebow.

If the Broncos had been so enamored with Orton after the last so-so season, they wouldn't have first acquired Quinn and then drafted Tebow.

History serves. In 1982, serviceable journeyman Steve DeBerg was the Broncos' starter, but John Elway and Gary Kubiak arrived the next year. After the 1983 season, DeBerg left for Tampa Bay, and Elway and Kubiak were the Broncos' starter-backup tandem for a long time.

The DeBerg-like Orton, who will become an unrestricted free agent in 2011, will be gone soon anyway. It should be done prior to this season — and Quinn and Tebow can compete vigorously to become No. 1. McDaniels obviously believes both can be starters in the NFL. Why wait until after another 8-8 season with Orton?

McDaniels made a bold, highly controversial decision to jettison Jay Cutler in 2009. The trading of Orton wouldn't be as difficult — or unpopular. Orton didn't make a stand or a statement last season. The Broncos let it get away.

Orton has said publicly he had a "good season," and others have agreed with the assessment — based on 21 touchdown passes, 12 interceptions, 3,802 yards passing and a shocking 6-0 start.

The Broncos

SUBMIT YOUR QUESTION

Post sports columnist Woody Paige fields your questions. Look for Woody's Mailbag on Thursdays.

lost eight of their final 10, and in those games Orton had 12 touchdown passes, 11 interceptions and 2,337 yards. In nine games last season, the Broncos' offense didn't score more than 20 points.
Orton, McDaniels and the Broncos had a "mediocre season."

Nobody, Cutler included, would say Cutler had a good season. But his last 10 games were comparable to Orton's — a 4-6 record, 16 touchdown passes, 16 interceptions and 2,214 yards. One team finished 8-8, the other 7-9. Neither made the playoffs.

Orton is described as "smart, a leader, an overachiever, a tireless worker."

He is smart. Orton knows, in the aftermath of recent major events, he is a temp, at best, a reservist waiting to happen, at worst. He should welcome a change in venue — to where he has a chance to start over. A dozen teams could use a veteran reserve, but the Broncos, honestly, wouldn't get much more than a mid- round draft pick in return.

He's not a true leader. The Broncos had Champ Bailey, D.J. Williams and Brian Dawkins in leadership roles on defense, but nobody on offense. The leadership has to come from the QB, and Orton's soft attitude didn't motivate his teammates.

He hasn't overachieved with his two NFL teams. Orton was dumped as a starter late in his rookie season with the Bears, barely played the next two seasons, started in 2008, didn't reach the postseason and was traded to the Broncos last year, where, again he fell short of the playoffs.

Post Poll - Exit Orton?

Denver Post columnist Woody Paige says the Broncos should trade veteran quarterback Kyle Orton — the sooner the better for him and the Broncos. What do you think?

Trade him: The future is now. Let Brady Quinn and Tim Tebow battle for the starting job.
Keep him: Orton was solid last season. He deserves another chance this season to be the starting quarterback.

Although Orton played through two injuries (throwing hand and ankle), his quirky offseason work ethic has been questioned in Chicago and Denver.

Everybody knows Orton is immobile, doesn't possess a powerful arm, vacillates when making passing choices and doesn't read defenses extremely well. Like Brian Griese, Orton has to play a near-perfect game to win — and receive a lot of help from his defense.

Orton is an average quarterback who couldn't start for 21 other teams in the league.

According to reports out of Jacksonville, the Jaguars have asked about a deal for Quinn. But the Broncos have been impressed with Quinn in OTAs (organized team activities) and will not let him go. The Jags' failure to draft Tebow likely was the death knell for the franchise in Jacksonville, but his presence on the Broncos' roster in the opening game will ensure a rare sellout for the Jaguars.

What about Orton in Jacksonville? He might push David Gerrard. Maybe the cross-state Bucs would be attracted to Orton, or the Bills, whose owner, Ralph Wilson, said the Broncos "panicked" by picking Tebow and that Buffalo had "no interest" in the QB.

If Orton were to be shipped out, the Broncos would save his $2.6 million contract and have Brandstater at $395,000, Tebow in the first year of an approximate five-year, $15 million to $18 million contract (about $8 million guaranteed) and Quinn in the odd position of receiving $700,000, with the chance to earn $5.9 million (if he takes 70 percent of the snaps). The Broncos will have two quarterbacks who will turn 26 in October (Quinn in his fourth season, Brandstater his second) and one will be 23 in August and in his rookie year.

That triad is the Broncos' solid future investment at quarterback.

And for the good of all, Orton has to be passed along.

Woody Paige: 303-954-1095 or wpaige@denverpost.com

BroncoSojia
05-09-2010, 08:48 AM
Can we all agree $2 million is serious money? Some jobs, however, are not worth doing at any cost.

Kyle Orton would have rocks for brains to start another game as quarterback of the Broncos. He would be playing the fool for Denver coach Josh McDaniels.

If Orton owns a penny's worth of common sense, he has already quietly, politely and firmly asked for a trade to grant his freedom. Let him go to the Buffalo Bills. The Edmonton Eskimos. Anywhere but here.

Why should Orton stick around and be a clown in the Tim Tebow circus?

In the NFL, a lame-duck quarterback is a messy ending waiting to happen.

It won't work. It can't work. Sandra Bullock and Jesse James have more of a future together than Orton and McDaniels.

Unless deaf, dumb and blind, Orton must be aware of his impending status as sacrificial scapegoat. At best, McDaniels deludes himself if he thinks Orton has the stuff to hold off challenges from Brady Quinn and Tebow. And the 75,000 Broncomaniacs itching to boo Orton the next time he throws an interception just want to get on with the rest of this team's life.

So let's stop the charade before everybody must pretend to go through the motions.

Stuck between impending NFL labor strife and a hard place, Orton recently signed a $2.6 million, one-year deal from the Broncos with barely a complaint.

Now, Orton can only hope it is his ticket out of town.

Think what you will of Orton. Sure, calling the 27-year-old quarterback a game manager might be code for not Super Bowl material. But if you want somebody to trash him, I'm not your guy.

Please take into consideration Orton's relatively modest salary, his winning percentage as an NFL starter and the solid character he demonstrates in victory or defeat. Add it up. What Orton brings to the table should be reasonably attractive on the trade market.

The Broncos obviously don't want him around for long. The only way

Share Your Analysis

Post sports columnist Mark Kiszla fields your feedback. Look for it in Kickin' It With Kiz on Sundays.
McDaniels could have sent his incumbent quarterback a more unmistakable vote of no confidence is if the coach hung a Tebow jersey in Orton's locker.

We know Orton's job is throwing passes. But he had to catch the hint that, when the Broncos traded for Quinn and drafted Tebow during a span of less than six weeks, McDan- iels was telling you, me and every player in the Denver locker room that he thinks Orton gives the team almost zero chance to be a big winner in the long run.

Has McDaniels ever compared Orton to New England superstar Tom Brady, as the young Broncos' coach seems so willing to do with Tebow?

If Jay Cutler or Brandon Marshall could pout his way out of Denver, then McDaniels owes Orton a fresh start in a new city.

It's the only classy thing to do.

Heck, it's the only practical thing to do. If Broncomaniacs booed Orton a year ago for not being Cutler, think of the grief he will endure for delaying the start of Tebow time.

Sorry, mayor John Hickenlooper. The toughest political position in Denver is quarterback of the Broncos. Orton does not have the clout to silence the howling masses the next time this team loses two games in a row.

The conventional wisdom has been that Orton will serve as the team's starting quarterback in 2010.

Why waste another year?

The Broncos travel to Tebow's backyard to open the regular season in Jacksonville.

If Orton is under center when the Broncos break the huddle, it might be the first time in NFL history the crowd loudly chants its demand for the visiting team to make a change at quarterback.

So long as Orton is the quarterback, Denver has no future.

Mark Kiszla: 303-954-1053 or mkiszla@denverpost.com

BMarsh615
05-09-2010, 09:11 AM
I don't see a lot of teams calling for Orton after what happened with Cassel last year.

Pseudofool
05-09-2010, 09:20 AM
I think the Steelers would be a good fit for a guy like Orton, he'd start four games, and be a much better backup then Dixon for a potential playoff team...

Hercules Rockefeller
05-09-2010, 09:27 AM
That mid-round pick at best trade value just screams to trade Orton now vs the end of August.

broncocalijohn
05-09-2010, 09:27 AM
As much excitement there has been for Tebow, no way in hell do I get rid of an insurance policy (if you want to call Orton that) to have a true rookie compete with a below average QB. If you want to digress, trade Orton. Reading those articles, the cutesy crap wears off quickly.

The Joker
05-09-2010, 09:35 AM
More and more I'm coming to the opinion that trading Orton for whatever we can get for him might be the way to go.

I know people will point to the fact that he's the only QB on our roster who has started in the current system, but before last year he was in the same boat that Quinn finds himself in this year. If anything Quinn is in a better spot coming in than Kyle was, as he ran pretty much the same offense in college.

I like Orton, he's a good guy and a dependable QB who gives his all. But clearly McDaniels doesn't see him as being the future at the spot, no way we do anything other than let him walk after 2010. So if we can get something for him now then do it I say.

Requiem
05-09-2010, 09:57 AM
Go for it.

RhymesayersDU
05-09-2010, 10:01 AM
I want Orton moved because I think he stinks. So obviously I'm biased.

But trying to put my bias aside and think logically, at least one of the QBs needs to go. I mean, why did we trade for a QB and then draft a QB? This whole thing has been a head scratcher. If McD thinks Tebow is an NFL starter, so be it. But that begs, why trade for Quinn? Why not just let Orton keep the seat warm for Tebow?

Personally I'd rather give Quinn a shot than keep Orton... But if we were to trade Quinn, it would make some sense. Again, I'm trying to not be biased. I'd rather keep Quinn. But logically, somebody has to go. Maybe it's as simple as cutting Brandstater and having the other 3 QBs. Who knows.

Either way, this little "logjam" if you want to call it that will need to be resolved before the season starts.

Paladin
05-09-2010, 10:17 AM
More and more I am coming to the opinion that NOT trading Orton is the better way to go. I am not convinced that Timmy T will be ready to go this year at all, except for gimmic plays that will sell tickets in J'ville and raise the viewership in Florida. (If I am surprised, then that's good for the Broncos, right?) There has been some history with Quinn that is not all that reassuring, although I grant some interest in his potential, and the overall suckiness of Cleveland weighs heavily. But he, too, will need some training to overcome three years of pi$$ poor coaching. If you are convinced that Brandstater is ready to go, you need an emetic and an enema at the same time, followed by an alcohol bath.

With the revamped Oline coming up, I think Orton will be able to do much better. Granted, It does take a village for Orton to be able to get it done, but the fact is, he is getting a villiage of some 300+ pound body guards with moving parts. Moreover, there are new bodies on the DLine that promise at least some changes. IF Orton needs a village, then most QBs need at least a California strip mall to do their jobs as well.

In short, I believe that Orton can have a very remarkable season in the system this year owing to improvemts in personnel and in his own familiarity with the O playbook. The Denver "blurbites" and glorified bloggers just need to creat discussion and controversy while you take their ragsheets to the bird cage or otherwise recycle the pages as fishwrap and garbage packaging.

Woody is the print version of Josina.

WolfpackGuy
05-09-2010, 10:23 AM
Orton is terrible, but he's the best option going into 2010.

If things go south early in the season, he will be the odd man out going forward.

DBroncos4life
05-09-2010, 10:26 AM
We are rebuilding so why the heck not.

DarkHorse30
05-09-2010, 10:30 AM
Woody is the print version of Josina.

this

TheReverend
05-09-2010, 10:36 AM
Though I think Quinn or Tebow can beat Orton out handily by opening day, I don't see much of any point to trading him outside of more reps for our other QBs in camps/pre-season unless we find a team willing to trade something semi respectable (4th or higher) for him, which simply is not going to happen without someone being really desperate.

Killericon
05-09-2010, 10:44 AM
Trade Orton, sign Bulger.

chawknz
05-09-2010, 11:03 AM
Out of the 4 we have now, Orton is definitely odd man out to me. Cut ties now, get what you can get out of him before the season starts, and work with what we have. There's a star in there somewhere, and it's not Orton.

ScottXray
05-09-2010, 11:18 AM
Now that both Woody and Kisla have come out stating that this MUST happen, I know that it would be the wrong thing to do.

Woody just wants Tebow to get an early start, as he's already said that the IT boy will bring superbowls back to Denver. Kisla is just normally wrong about everything Broncos.

Don't forget Woody calling for Simms to start mid last season.

While I agree that we can't keep 4 QB's on the roster and should try to get something for one of them, NOW is not the time to decide who the keepers are.
End of camp/ pre-season is when McD will have a better idea of who should stay/ who is not .

And yes, Orton will probably be gone next year (if there IS a season) but we will probably get a compensatory 3rd for him leaving, at the least. Trading him for less than that is rediculous, and until the labor situation is resolved I doubt many teams will be willing to give up much more than that. Even if they give up more, it leaves us with a questionable QB position just when the D and O -line may be getting solid.

On top of that if Quinn takes 70% of the snaps his contract escalates to a significant amount....and no one thinks Tebow or TB are going to be better than Quinn at this point, do they ?

SouthStndJunkie
05-09-2010, 12:05 PM
Trade Orton as soon as possible and give the reps to the other 3 QBs.

Brady Quinn will be the starter and will look good. He is not a complete stiff and that alone will open up the playbook more than last year.

Tebow will be the #2 QB and will come in and gets some reps in some specially designed packages. If the team founders, he may start by the end of the year.

Brandstater will be the #3 QB.

Let's face it....Tebow was not drafted to sit for 2 or 3 years. Let Quinn start and see what we have in him. If he looks great, it's a good problem to have, as we can keep him for a year or two and trade him for some high picks. If for some reason Tebow does not progress and look good, we can keep playing Quinn. We know what we have in Orton....we need to see what Quinn can do as the starter.

Popps
05-09-2010, 12:17 PM
I'm very torn on this whole thing. To me, if Orton stayed healthy last season... we're probably sneaking in the playoffs. With an improved defense/line this year, I feel like we could make the playoffs with Orton.

Could we win a SB with him? Maybe, but it would take a stellar supporting cast, which we don't have yet.

The thing is, Quinn and Tebow are such wild cards. We KNOW Orton can win games when the system is functioning properly. He played great football in the first half last season. I just have a hard time with the notion of kicking him out of town and going with total unknowns at the position. That's a tough sell to your team, if you're McD.


That said, I DO believe we've got 3 very interesting prospects behind him. It won't shock me if one of them can step up... I'm just not sure how soon that will be.


Quinn seems the most likely option. He he can learn the system quickly... he'll be a more athletic version of Orton. Will he make as good of decisions with the ball? We'll see.

Rohirrim
05-09-2010, 12:27 PM
Whatever Kisla and Woody say. They're the masterminds.

enjolras
05-09-2010, 12:35 PM
Why trade now? It always seems that you run into a team that is just desperate for a Quarterback near the beginning of the season. Someone will get hurt...they always do. Let the four QB's duke it out and see who's left standing. Trade the one who is left out.

strafen
05-09-2010, 12:38 PM
I think that Quinn coming into this year has already better skills to play QB than Orton has ever had.
That said, with the coaching of McDaniels he could potentially have a better year than Orton had last year in terms of efficiency and winning games we weren't supposed to win.

Playing Orton will not put us in any better position than we were last year.
We could all see his limited physical abilities that I'm not convinced will ever change.
Rather that go thru another season with a QB like Orton that we all know is not going to cut it, get Tebow in there.

I know a rookie QB as the starter is not very conventional, but what do we have to lose?
We have 3 QB's besides Orton that we know nothing about how they will perform under our system.

There's one way to find out. Let them compete for the gold in TC, and whoever wins it outright, should be the starter regardless of whether he's a rookie, a seasoned veteran, or a former 1st round pick yet to prove his worth.
I like Tebow chances to win the job under that criteria...

Quoydogs
05-09-2010, 12:41 PM
At this point I think you need to look at like this. Yes Orton might be our best option this year. However we are rebuilding and chances of us getting to the dance are unfortunately slim.

My question is, is Orton the future QB for the next 10 years? Most would say no.

Trade Orton before the season and get what we can for him.

Give Quinn a shot. He was a high drafted QB that Played great in college and did not have a QB coach. Also he played for a ****y team. If he does not pan out make the best of what we can work with Rambow and move forward onto the future.

I just don't see us needing a QB that may get us to the playoffs but not the dance.

The last thing and I will shut up. I don't think Orton is a great guy to teach Rambow.. I think there playing styles are completely different.

I say we tell Orton. Thanks it was interesting. Don't feel too bad, you have a hot wife and move on.

Kaylore
05-09-2010, 12:46 PM
Whatever Kisla and Woody say. They're the masterminds.

I know right? You'd think after the Chris Simms fiasco that Woody would be more tempered in his QB recommendations.

misturanderson
05-09-2010, 12:46 PM
I don't like to read Woody's articles. Is there any mention of the fact that not only will the conditional pick for 2012 be higher, but so will Quinn's salary next year (by A LOT) if he starts more than 70% of the snaps this year?

The extra $4-5 million that Quinn will receive needs to be taken into account if you're just going to dump Orton so that Quinn can start. Orton's less than $1 million this year doesn't make up for that.

Drek
05-09-2010, 12:46 PM
Such a stupid ass idea.

It'd be great for Orton's career, sure, but the Broncos aren't in the business of helping football players have great careers for other teams.

Orton is our safest bet to have a competitive offense next year. We absolutely need buffer QB between the starter and Tebow as well (be that Quinn or Brandstater) so that an injury isn't forcing Tebow into the lineup long term while he should be developing.

If Quinn is clearly the better QB after camp then I could see quietly working behind the scenes to move him, but not until we've really had a good look at Quinn and McDaniels is sure Quinn would beat Orton out for the #1 job. Even then I'd be unsure unless we're getting a 3rd round pick or better for him. Only way we should just dump him for whatever pick we can get is if he's beaten out by both Quinn and Brandstater, or Tebow is suddenly leagues ahead of where everyone thought he'd be.

IHaveALight
05-09-2010, 12:50 PM
This is why I think we should let Orton go now.

1. He has no future with the team. Even if he does play this year, he will walk next year for sure.

2. He is not going to take us to the Super Bowl this year. Orton is not an elite QB that can carry a team to the Super Bowl. Also the rest of the team is not great enough to carry a serviceable QB to the Super Bowl (like Ravens Super Bowl team) as of now.

3. IMO we have 3 QB's on the roster that have the potential to be above average to great QB's. Orton is not one of them.

4. All 3 of those QB's are young and need as much reps as possible to help them grow and get better.

5. If Orton starts the season as the starting quarterback and gets benched at some point it could divide the locker room. Like the Plummer - Cutler scenario.

6. I want to see what the other 3 have to offer. I have no problems with Tebow starting as a rookie if he learns fast and the team thinks he gives us the best chance to win. I would much rather see him start going through the growing pains now then delay them a year. Same thing can be said for Quin and Brandstater too.

Mogulseeker
05-09-2010, 12:51 PM
I've got a feeling Orton ends up in Minnesota.

Quoydogs
05-09-2010, 12:52 PM
Such a stupid ass idea.

It'd be great for Orton's career, sure, but the Broncos aren't in the business of helping football players have great careers for other teams.

Orton is our safest bet to have a competitive offense next year. We absolutely need buffer QB between the starter and Tebow as well (be that Quinn or Brandstater) so that an injury isn't forcing Tebow into the lineup long term while he should be developing.

If Quinn is clearly the better QB after camp then I could see quietly working behind the scenes to move him, but not until we've really had a good look at Quinn and McDaniels is sure Quinn would beat Orton out for the #1 job. Even then I'd be unsure unless we're getting a 3rd round pick or better for him. Only way we should just dump him for whatever pick we can get is if he's beaten out by both Quinn and Brandstater, or Tebow is suddenly leagues ahead of where everyone thought he'd be.


, or Tebow is suddenly leagues ahead of where everyone thought he'd be.


This :woowoo::woowoo:

DenverBrit
05-09-2010, 12:58 PM
Orton get's his chance to perform in his second year with a scheme that is evolving with new O linemen, switching to a PBS and new receivers.

Like it or not, Orton is going to be the glue that allows the rest of the offense to gel.

Let Orton have his opportunity to shine, let the new QBs get a season to acclimate and learn and see what shakes out.

Orton has no real trade value so he's playing for his next contract. Denver should benefit from that.

HAT
05-09-2010, 12:59 PM
I would hate this.

If Quinn were to truly beat out Orton after TC & NFLX than so be it....But I'd be way more comfortable with Orton as a second year starter with a beefed up OL than Quinn.

And even if Quinn were to win the job, you need a quality B/U. We all saw what happened last year with Simms.

There is absolutely no reason IMO to believe that Orton will do anything but improve. Let him have his 4000+ / 25 / 10 season....Then tag & trade next year & let Quinn & Tebow fight it out.

At any rate....Orton & Quinn need to be 1-2. Let Tebow be Tebow when the situation calls for it but other than that he should only be the emergency QB.

Beantown Bronco
05-09-2010, 01:01 PM
It amazes me how much confidence some people have in Quinn, a guy who has done nothing in the NFL but suck terribly against pretty much anyone not ranked #32 in defense. McD does seem to have a gift with QBs, but sometimes talent and success in college does not translate into success at the next level, no matter what type of coaching you get. Most first round QBs bust, as we all know, and to this point Quinn has shown nothing to indicate he's anything but.

I'd love to see Quinn succeed, if his number is called, but the number of people here willing to simply dump Orton today and hand Quinn the job before even winning it outright through an open competition in camp surprises me.

HAT
05-09-2010, 01:11 PM
I'd love to see Quinn succeed, if his number is called, but the number of people here willing to simply dump Orton today and hand Quinn the job before even winning it outright through an open competition in camp surprises me.

It shouldn't be too much of a surpise....The majority of the McD haters are also Orton haters. If this scenario were to happen they get to have their cake and eat it too.

"McD made a mistake in dumping Cutler & acquiring Orton"

+

"See? Orton is tHe SuCk and couldn't even beat out Quinn/Tebow/Brandy"

+

Quinn fail in 2010

=

"McDummy has no clue...He traded Hillis for this garbage QB?"
"McD has now gone 16-16 over two years....He needs to go!"
"Fire McD...Let's trade Tebow to Jax & move up For Locker!"

That's a jhns/dragster/rasta/bf7 wet dream.....

IHaveALight
05-09-2010, 01:45 PM
You dont have to be a McD or even Oton hater to see that Orton isn't very good and has no future with the team. McD himself see's that, that's why we have Quin and Tebow.

Kaylore
05-09-2010, 01:47 PM
Why trade now? It always seems that you run into a team that is just desperate for a Quarterback near the beginning of the season. Someone will get hurt...they always do. Let the four QB's duke it out and see who's left standing.

Or what if we're that team? That would suck to trade him and have Tebow or Quinn go down for the season.

RhymesayersDU
05-09-2010, 02:10 PM
You dont have to be a McD or even Oton hater to see that Orton isn't very good and has no future with the team. McD himself see's that, that's why we have Quin and Tebow.

This. I'm not a McD hater by any means. Has he made some odd moves? Sure, but the guy deserves the benefit of the doubt and a couple years to install his vision, IMO at least. With that said, I do not think Orton is very good.

cutthemdown
05-09-2010, 02:12 PM
Orton I think is used to it from Chicago. If any QB can handle being a bkup/starter that would be orton.

TheReverend
05-09-2010, 02:18 PM
Or what if we're that team? That would suck to trade him and have Tebow or Quinn go down for the season.

Tebow doesn't go down. Things go down on Tebow.

theAPAOps5
05-09-2010, 02:24 PM
Tebow is already mentoring Peyton Manning on how to read defenses. He is that quick a learner.

jutang
05-09-2010, 02:27 PM
Orton should stay on this team. He is at the very least a great back up QB to have. Quinn is too much of a wild card and failed so badly in Cleveland he was dumped for practically nothing. Yet some off season pass-catch drills have everyone clamoring to trade Orton.

I've never been a big fan of Orton, but I just don't understand why everyone wants to dump him for some 1st round underachiever and a very talented but incredibly raw new comer.

Atwater His Ass
05-09-2010, 02:33 PM
The biggest reason I was onboard with the Tebow pick was because I knew it would result in getting Orton out of town. Although I didn't think it would happen this year, it's nice to see the buzz moving in that direction.

TheReverend
05-09-2010, 02:43 PM
Elway scored a 5 on an athleticism scale from 1 to Tebow.

Soul-Bronco
05-09-2010, 03:05 PM
Orton will stay, McD is gonna use tebow the same way urban Meyer used him with Chris leak.

uplink
05-09-2010, 03:39 PM
The Denver Post has long used servicable reporters in Paige and Kisla, but with the signing of Krieger and the emergence of Klis these old vets need to go so the Post can rebuild its self into a premeir football paper. Since football is waning in Jacksonville, they might be able to get spots covering the Jagwads.

Hamrob
05-09-2010, 05:45 PM
Let Orton go for whatever we can get. The guy doesn't scare defenses and there's really nothing special about him...meaning, Quinn will be able to match his performance and give us a little more at that.

If Orton does stay, it's because McDaniels plans to go the season with him behind center. He'll be o.k., but we won't be a playoff team. If not to win in the playoffs...why keep him?

strafen
05-09-2010, 06:27 PM
Let Orton go for whatever we can get. The guy doesn't scare defenses and there's really nothing special about him...meaning, Quinn will be able to match his performance and give us a little more at that.

If Orton does stay, it's because McDaniels plans to go the season with him behind center. He'll be o.k., but we won't be a playoff team. If not to win in the playoffs...why keep him?I agree. We know what we've got in Orton and how far he can take us, why not give somebody else a chance to compete and see what happens.
Worst case scenario, we'd still be working on getting better as a team, best case scenario, we may have found our QBOTF, and we know it will be Tebow barring some unforeseen catastrophic turn out in his development, which for what I've seen, it will be highly unlikely...

HEAV
05-09-2010, 06:28 PM
2010 Orton

2011 (If no lockout) Brady transition to Tebow

2012 Tebow

baja
05-09-2010, 06:32 PM
If you can trade Orton for a quality starter at a position of need (LB) than maybe but at his cost keep him until the season begins by then someone will need a QB more than they do right now. All signs point to wait.

IHaveALight
05-09-2010, 06:57 PM
There's a big fat sign that says give the reps to the 3 guys that have a possible future with the team. There is no future for Orton here.

Also we can only keep 3 QB's at the start of the season. I think the Broncos know that Quin, Tebow and Brandstater have more potential to become great players then Orton and don't want to risk losing one of them.

HAT
05-09-2010, 07:31 PM
There's a big fat sign that says give the reps to the 3 guys that have a possible future with the team. There is no future for Orton here.

Also we can only keep 3 QB's at the start of the season. I think the Broncos know that Quin, Tebow and Brandstater have more potential to become great players then Orton and don't want to risk losing one of them.

Ummmm, you actually think Brandy is ahead of Orton right now? Upside doesn't matter in this case. If the Broncos are high on Quinn & obviously Tebow...then what purpose does Brandy serve? Is he capable of winning games THIS YEAR if Quinn goes down?

Why trade the known entity simply because it gives more "Reps" to the others in TC?

Orton indeed has a 'future' year. The 2010 NFL season is in the future. Whether or not he is in the plans for 2011 does not matter one iota.

With an easier schedule, an improved OL (on paper), a full year in the system....Orton deserves every shot to compete with Quinn. As mentioned before....you really want Tebow or Brandy as the back-up when all that an Orton trade would net right now is a marginal player or a 4th rounder? Foolish IMO.

I've been on board with almost every move McX has made thus far....I don't expect them to disappoint me now by actually considering what these hacks are suggesting.

If he indeed is the 4th best looking QB after camp & NFLX...Fine, pull the trigger. But there is absolutely no upside to making such a move before late August....And probably not even then.

HAT
05-09-2010, 07:34 PM
Hey, Let's trade Clady while we are at it.....

Beadles, Olsen x2 & Wallton need the reps after all. Sorry Eddie, we gotta find a way to get Decker & Thomas reps in TC so you're gonna have to go.

****tarded.

TheReverend
05-09-2010, 07:43 PM
Hey, Let's trade Clady while we are at it.....

Beadles, Olsen x2 & Wallton need the reps after all. Sorry Eddie, we gotta find a way to get Decker & Thomas reps in TC so you're gonna have to go.

****tarded.

Ladies and Gentlemen, for an outstanding of achievement of not only indirectly comparing Kyle Orton's performance to Ryan Clady, but then proceeding to incorrectly cite depth concerns by naming not 1, not 2, but 3 (and potentially 4) interior offensive linemen.... The "Most ridiculous leap of the month of May" award!

Come collect your prize, HAT!

HAT
05-09-2010, 07:48 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, for an outstanding of achievement of not only indirectly comparing Kyle Orton's performance to Ryan Clady, but then proceeding to incorrectly cite depth concerns by naming not 1, not 2, but 3 (and potentially 4) interior offensive linemen.... The "Most ridiculous leap of the month of May" award!

Come collect your prize, HAT!

Yeah, I knew someone would call me on that aspect but that wasn't point.....

If one wants Orton gone for whatever reasons....Fine, state your case. "Reps" for the other three is a new one on me.

strafen
05-09-2010, 07:56 PM
There's a big fat sign that says give the reps to the 3 guys that have a possible future with the team. There is no future for Orton here.

Also we can only keep 3 QB's at the start of the season. I think the Broncos know that Quin, Tebow and Brandstater have more potential to become great players then Orton and don't want to risk losing one of them.Question...
Is Brandstater eligible for the PS this year?

randomtask
05-09-2010, 08:00 PM
Question...
Is Brandstater eligible for the PS this year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_team

Says that they can be eligible until they've been on it 3 years, or 8 games on active roster.

So yes, he's PS-Eligible.

HAT
05-09-2010, 08:03 PM
indirectly comparing Kyle Orton's performance to Ryan Clady

And BTW...There was nothing 'indirect' about it.

As of May 9th....Clady is the best LT on the roster. It's my belief that the same applies to Orton as far as QB's go. :twokisses

strafen
05-09-2010, 08:06 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_team

Says that they can be eligible until they've been on it 3 years, or 8 games on active roster.

So yes, he's PS-Eligible.Thanks!
I could then see us carrying 4 QB's if they decide to keep Orton.
The question is, would they still want Brandstater on the PS one more year?

I really like our team to sort out the QB situation this year in a way that we can see it coming into view in by next year...

Aftermath
05-09-2010, 08:09 PM
i would love for him to go, just based off the fact that i cannot watch another season with him as our QB...

Atwater His Ass
05-09-2010, 08:14 PM
2010 doesn't really matter. We won't be a playoff team and if we happen to squeak in at 9-7 or something, we cannot compete with the big dogs yet.

If I have to suffer through yet another mediocre season, I'd rather have the future QB learning, playing, and practicing as much as possible and for that future to get here sooner rather than later. This means I'm comfortble with Quinn as the starter and Tebow as the backup, all things considered.

Quinn and Orton are bascially the same player anyway, so it's not much, if any, of a dropoff to trade Orton and start Quinn.

TheReverend
05-09-2010, 08:43 PM
And BTW...There was nothing 'indirect' about it.

As of May 9th....Clady is the best LT on the roster. It's my belief that the same applies to Orton as far as QB's go. :twokisses

So you decided the best route to go was using an All-Pro tackle instead of Hill or Goodman or Haggan or Fields or _____ (insert other mediocre stop-gap here)

There's only one thing to say...

http://imgur.com/VW5jo.jpg

nickademus
05-09-2010, 08:52 PM
while I am not a huge tebow guy I feel like he has been anointed by mcd. orton signed the tender so he will be gone next year anyway get something for him if you can. I just dont think there will be a huge drop from orton to quinn if anything quinn is more mobile and that alone should make up the difference. I do not think our team is winning the superbowl this season so if that is the case what harm is there in seeing what you have in quinn tebow and brandstater?

uplink
05-09-2010, 08:56 PM
Tebow is already mentoring Peyton Manning on how to read defenses. He is that quick a learner.

Funny Avatar, the expressions on their faces. McD looks like he is getting something he wasn't expecting and Tebow is looking like he knew what was coming all along. ROFL!

HAT
05-09-2010, 09:02 PM
So you decided the best route to go was using an All-Pro tackle instead of Hill or Goodman or Haggan or Fields or _____ (insert other mediocre stop-gap here)

There's only one thing to say...

http://imgur.com/VW5jo.jpg

Top of the depth chart is top of the depth chart.....

Still waiting to hear people justify that he is actually #4 when in fact Quinn / Tebow / Brandy have yet to throw a single meaningful pass for the Broncos.

The very definition of 'stop gap' speaks for itself. He's here until somebody better comes along. The people advocating a trade right now are in effect saying that someone better has come along....Without seeing a single practice session?

I understand I'm higher on Orton than most but don't tell me you are actually buying into this notion of trading him NOW for a mid-rounder Rev.

Never mind who actually starts....My main contention is that Orton & Quinn need to be 1-2 in some form this year with The Messiah being a change of pace / gimmick guy this year.

I forgot that Brandy has Hillis status with a certain element here though.

Somebody please make a case that heading into 2010.....

Quinn + Tebow + Brandy + a future 4th rounder for Orton is >
Orton + Quinn + Tebow.

HAT
05-09-2010, 09:05 PM
http://imgur.com/VW5jo.jpg
PS. Bert & my avy....Separated at birth?

:thumbs:

strafen
05-09-2010, 09:13 PM
2010 doesn't really matter. We won't be a playoff team and if we happen to squeak in at 9-7 or something, we cannot compete with the big dogs yet.

If I have to suffer through yet another mediocre season, I'd rather have the future QB learning, playing, and practicing as much as possible and for that future to get here sooner rather than later. This means I'm comfortble with Quinn as the starter and Tebow as the backup, all things considered.

Quinn and Orton are bascially the same player anyway, so it's not much, if any, of a dropoff to trade Orton and start Quinn.

I've got the feeling Tebow will be the starting QB by opening day.
I have no doubts about it.

IHaveALight
05-09-2010, 09:20 PM
I think we're better off just flat out releasing Orton if that's what it takes.
I have already written a list of reasons why. Let me just say this loud and clear though, Orton sucks! He had to lock onto B-Marsh all year, when we needed the big 3rd down conversions he failed, and once the rush is coming in at him he looks like a dear in headlights (what makes good QB's great is the ability to make something out of nothing).
I believe that one of Quin, Tebow or Brandstater will earn the starting job whether Orton's here or not. But mark my words, Orton will not be the starter for 2010 and whoever is the starter will improve the offensive output from last year.

HAT
05-09-2010, 09:24 PM
I've got the feeling Tebow will be the starting QB by opening day.
I have no doubts about it.

I'd actually be okay with this scenario as well....If that's how it shakes out after camp & NFLX. If McD is comfortable with that & Quinn's progression enough to name him #2, so be it. At that point, if somebody comes a calling for Orton...Pull the trigger & keep Brandy as the emergency guy.

Tebow / Quinn / Brandy.....Fine.

Quinn / Tebow / Brandy.....No.

TheReverend
05-09-2010, 09:28 PM
Top of the depth chart is top of the depth chart.....

Still waiting to hear people justify that he is actually #4 when in fact Quinn / Tebow / Brandy have yet to throw a single meaningful pass for the Broncos.

The very definition of 'stop gap' speaks for itself. He's here until somebody better comes along. The people advocating a trade right now are in effect saying that someone better has come along....Without seeing a single practice session?

I understand I'm higher on Orton than most but don't tell me you are actually buying into this notion of trading him NOW for a mid-rounder Rev.

Never mind who actually starts....My main contention is that Orton & Quinn need to be 1-2 in some form this year with The Messiah being a change of pace / gimmick guy this year.

I forgot that Brandy has Hillis status with a certain element here though.

Somebody please make a case that heading into 2010.....

Quinn + Tebow + Brandy + a future 4th rounder for Orton is >
Orton + Quinn + Tebow.

No. You're reading into me pointing out how absurd your Orton and Clady comparison is. They can both be top of the depth chart all day... their quality and value is apples and oranges though.

Regardless, I certainly don't advocate trading Orton. I'll be surprised if he's starting in Sept, but I don't think trading him is a good idea unless we can get a 4th or better (and unless someone gets REALLY desperate, it won't happen).

He's cheap and can make people better through competition. Reps is an issue but not a massive one... Brandstater will get a retarded amount of reps on the PS and 80% odds no one will care enough to sign him after he gets waived.

Cliffs:

- I don't advocate trading Orton this off-season
- I won't be surprised if it happens
- I could also give two ****s if it happens, though it will probably brighten my day
- Your Clady comparison was retarded, not your thought process

TheReverend
05-09-2010, 09:29 PM
I've got the feeling Tebow will be the starting QB by opening day.
I have no doubts about it.

Strong possibility

HAT
05-09-2010, 09:29 PM
whoever is the starter will improve the offensive output from last year.

Dumb argument because the same applies to Orton himself......

You're ****ing nuts though if you think Brandy starts 16 games and the offensive output goes up. To each their own.

HAT
05-09-2010, 09:33 PM
- Your Clady comparison was retarded, not your thought process

If you honestly think I was saying Orton is to QB's what Clady is to LT's than there is no helping you!

thwack

Tombstone RJ
05-09-2010, 09:36 PM
If you honestly think I was saying Orton is to QB's what Clady is to LT's than there is no helping you!

thwack

and yet, you did...

HAT
05-09-2010, 09:40 PM
and yet, you did...

Not once, not never.

Just making fun of this 'bleed character's assertion that the primary reason for trading Orton should be to get the other 3 more practice reps.

:welcome:

Quoydogs
05-09-2010, 09:41 PM
Not once, not never.

Just making fun of this 'bleed character's assertion that the primary reason for trading Orton should be to get the other 3 more practice reps.

:welcome:

Well why not, Are you saying Orton can win us the Superbowl ?

HAT
05-09-2010, 09:44 PM
Well why not, Are you saying Orton can win us the Superbowl ?

By himself? Negative.

Tombstone RJ
05-09-2010, 09:49 PM
Not once, not never.

Just making fun of this 'bleed character's assertion that the primary reason for trading Orton should be to get the other 3 more practice reps.

:welcome:

got it. thanks for that clarification, I guess...

colonelbeef
05-09-2010, 10:00 PM
Really depends on Quinn, more so than Tebow at this point in time. If McDaniels thinks Quinn is ready to step in and play, then Orton is immediately expendable. Otherwise, might as well keep him for one more season to help Tebow learn

IHaveALight
05-09-2010, 10:01 PM
Dumb argument because the same applies to Orton himself......

You're ****ing nuts though if you think Brandy starts 16 games and the offensive output goes up. To each their own.

I don't think that Orton improves this year now that his only target is gone.

Speaking of B-Marsh, don't' forget he rolls with Brandstater. And no I don't have all my faith stocked into Brandstater. But of the 3 I truly think one will emerge, which could turn out to be him. Call me nuts if you will. It’s just my opinion. Could be wrong or could be right, but that’s the way I see it. And I have a feeling McD see’s it the same way.

I found something I can agree with you though, to each his own. ;D

ZONA
05-09-2010, 10:02 PM
The way I see it, is that 31 teams fail every year. I guess those 2 Superbowl wins we had with Elway and crew made me realize that nothing else matters except winning it ALL. Do you think the Colts are feeling good about losing the Superbowl? Nah, didn't think so. So I think Orton is a decent QB but nothing more and I don't think decent QB's win Superbowls very often. You have to take a chance on the younger guys we have. What is there to lose? If none of them play great this year and say we win only 7 games and miss the playoffs vs Orton playing decent and the team winning 9 games and getting busted up in the 1st round, it's all the same. Not winning the Superbowl. So San Diego has won the division the past several years, how many rings are they holding up right now?

0

The only thing that matter is winning it all and that's not gonna happen with Orton now or in a few years from now. You have to give the young guys at a shot and maybe one of them is the real deal. We have to see.

HAT
05-09-2010, 10:17 PM
I don't think that Orton improves this year now that his only target is gone.



To go along with my "Top of the depth chart is top of the depth chart" theme in this thread.....

Primary target is primary target. Granted, Denver's #1 WR this year probably won't have the physical tools that BM does.....But that doesn't preclude a QB's ability to find & hit his first read.

Quoydogs
05-09-2010, 10:31 PM
By himself? Negative.

K what about Orton, and

Gaf how many years in the league ?
Stokley vet and proven
Royal ?? after last year.
and two rookies

A new O-line and a second year running back.

I would love to go to the dance this year but I just don't see it. If there is no chance at winning why not let the rookies play.

extralife
05-09-2010, 10:34 PM
was that supposed to be a poem or something?

TheReverend
05-09-2010, 10:54 PM
If you honestly think I was saying Orton is to QB's what Clady is to LT's than there is no helping you!

thwack

What? All I did was say it's a horrid comparison to make and you spent 3 posts justifying it even after I suggested better comparisons like Goodman, Hill, etc.

You definitely deserve another one of these...

http://imgur.com/VW5jo.jpg

Killericon
05-09-2010, 11:59 PM
http://www.frontiernet.net/%7Ejoe14580/this%20thread%20has%20derailed.jpg

Archer81
05-10-2010, 12:17 AM
I don't think that Orton improves this year now that his only target is gone.

Speaking of B-Marsh, don't' forget he rolls with Brandstater. And no I don't have all my faith stocked into Brandstater. But of the 3 I truly think one will emerge, which could turn out to be him. Call me nuts if you will. It’s just my opinion. Could be wrong or could be right, but that’s the way I see it. And I have a feeling McD see’s it the same way.

I found something I can agree with you though, to each his own. ;D


...So McDaniels trades for a former 1st round quarterback and drafts a quarterback in this year's first round because he believes Brandstater is Denver's QBOTF?...


:Broncos:

ZONA
05-10-2010, 02:22 AM
...So McDaniels trades for a former 1st round quarterback and drafts a quarterback in this year's first round because he believes Brandstater is Denver's QBOTF?...


:Broncos:

You never know. Obviously he traded for Quinn before he got to talk and see Tebow. He got Quinn for next to nothing. And nobody says he got Quinn thinking he was going to be his future QB. He easily could have just thought getting him for Hillis was no risk at all and that maybe he could turn him into a better QB. Maybe that leads to a trade some day with a high pick in return. Maybe that leads to him being a quality back up. Same goes with Tebow. It's not like we used the #1 pick over all on him. He was a late 1st round pick and worth the risk at taking a chance on. He's a project with high upside. I still think Brandstater is going to get his chances. But to me, the signing of Quinn and the drafting of Tebow spells the end for Orton more then it does for Brandstater. He's looked good in preseason games and he's been in the league one year and has more upside then Orton. Who's been in the league for several years and seems to be the same player as always. An average arm, not mobile at all, but somebody who won't throw too many games away but may not be able to go out and put a team on his back and win them many either.

strafen
05-10-2010, 05:21 AM
You never know. Obviously he traded for Quinn before he got to talk and see Tebow. He got Quinn for next to nothing. And nobody says he got Quinn thinking he was going to be his future QB. He easily could have just thought getting him for Hillis was no risk at all and that maybe he could turn him into a better QB. Maybe that leads to a trade some day with a high pick in return. Maybe that leads to him being a quality back up. Same goes with Tebow. It's not like we used the #1 pick over all on him. He was a late 1st round pick and worth the risk at taking a chance on. He's a project with high upside. I still think Brandstater is going to get his chances. But to me, the signing of Quinn and the drafting of Tebow spells the end for Orton more then it does for Brandstater. He's looked good in preseason games and he's been in the league one year and has more upside then Orton. Who's been in the league for several years and seems to be the same player as always. An average arm, not mobile at all, but somebody who won't throw too many games away but may not be able to go out and put a team on his back and win them many either.Very well said.

Beantown Bronco
05-10-2010, 05:56 AM
Quinn and Orton are bascially the same player anyway, so it's not much, if any, of a dropoff to trade Orton and start Quinn.

Quinn's last start in 2009:

vs. KC - 10-17 for 66 yds, 0 TDs, 2 INTs

Some other common opponents last year:

vs Pittsburgh - 6-19 for 90 yds, O TDs
two game total vs Baltimore - 19-39 for 133 yds, 0 TDs, 3 INTs

Yup, that inspires a lot of confidence. People say Orton does nothing but dink and dunk, but Quinn's yards per attempt makes Orton look like freakin Drew Brees out there.

Kaylore
05-10-2010, 06:59 AM
Elway scored a 5 on an athleticism scale from 1 to Tebow.

What's funny about this is last night my buddy from California called me and left me a voice mail. "I've been watching YouTube videos of Tebow and I'm believing Tebow is the greatest player in history and I need you to call me and talk me back into reality."

A few hours later I got a text that said "I made Tebow based on the stats online and he's the best player in the game."

Rohirrim
05-10-2010, 07:03 AM
Right now, Orton is the only proven QB the Broncos have.

orangemonkey
05-10-2010, 07:57 AM
Borderline NFL starter. Goodbye Kyle. Our chances are as good or as better with Quinn.

Rabb
05-10-2010, 08:03 AM
Borderline NFL starter. Goodbye Kyle. Our chances are as good or as better with Quinn.

I just don't see how anyone can say this with actual proof...but ok

TheReverend
05-10-2010, 08:12 AM
What's funny about this is last night my buddy from California called me and left me a voice mail. "I've been watching YouTube videos of Tebow and I'm believing Tebow is the greatest player in history and I need you to call me and talk me back into reality."

A few hours later I got a text that said "I made Tebow based on the stats online and he's the best player in the game."

Tebow doesn't play football. Football plays Tebow.

Cito Pelon
05-10-2010, 08:41 AM
Seems to me the Quinn love has really took off for some reason. Seems like he's being anointed the starter, but I didn't sense all this kind of love initially after the trade. What happened between then and now to warrant this confidence in Brady Quinn all of a sudden?

TheReverend
05-10-2010, 08:56 AM
Seems to me the Quinn love has really took off for some reason. Seems like he's being anointed the starter, but I didn't sense all this kind of love initially after the trade. What happened between then and now to warrant this confidence in Brady Quinn all of a sudden?

I think more people realize that after all the attention given to bringing in new talent at the QB position that Kyle Orton truly was bad and now want him gone and feel Brady's capable of keeping the spot warm until the second coming takes the field.

Personally, I think Tim will be ready very soon :)

Cito Pelon
05-10-2010, 09:00 AM
Such a stupid ass idea.

It'd be great for Orton's career, sure, but the Broncos aren't in the business of helping football players have great careers for other teams.

Orton is our safest bet to have a competitive offense next year. We absolutely need buffer QB between the starter and Tebow as well (be that Quinn or Brandstater) so that an injury isn't forcing Tebow into the lineup long term while he should be developing.

If Quinn is clearly the better QB after camp then I could see quietly working behind the scenes to move him, but not until we've really had a good look at Quinn and McDaniels is sure Quinn would beat Orton out for the #1 job. Even then I'd be unsure unless we're getting a 3rd round pick or better for him. Only way we should just dump him for whatever pick we can get is if he's beaten out by both Quinn and Brandstater, or Tebow is suddenly leagues ahead of where everyone thought he'd be.

Some rationality kicking in. Forgive me if others have posted the same in subsequent pages, I'm just clicking on this thread now.

I see a 'Woody and Kiszla' thread I don't pay much attention to it. But it looks like this is heating up some.

no-pseudo-fan
05-10-2010, 09:21 AM
What's funny about this is last night my buddy from California called me and left me a voice mail. "I've been watching YouTube videos of Tebow and I'm believing Tebow is the greatest player in history and I need you to call me and talk me back into reality."

A few hours later I got a text that said "I made Tebow based on the stats online and he's the best player in the game."

I am doing the same thing, and the more I see him play, the more I am buying in. He is not only supremely talented, he is supremely hard working. The hardest thing is believing something that seems too good too be true.

I have seen him throw the ball, and he can sling it. I think the scary thing is, he can get better.

Cito Pelon
05-10-2010, 09:24 AM
The way I see it, is that 31 teams fail every year. I guess those 2 Superbowl wins we had with Elway and crew made me realize that nothing else matters except winning it ALL. Do you think the Colts are feeling good about losing the Superbowl? Nah, didn't think so. So I think Orton is a decent QB but nothing more and I don't think decent QB's win Superbowls very often. You have to take a chance on the younger guys we have. What is there to lose? If none of them play great this year and say we win only 7 games and miss the playoffs vs Orton playing decent and the team winning 9 games and getting busted up in the 1st round, it's all the same. Not winning the Superbowl. So San Diego has won the division the past several years, how many rings are they holding up right now?

0

The only thing that matter is winning it all and that's not gonna happen with Orton now or in a few years from now. You have to give the young guys at a shot and maybe one of them is the real deal. We have to see.

I think it's a mistake to fall into the trap that you have to make drastic moves to 'win it all'.

Cito Pelon
05-10-2010, 09:38 AM
I think more people realize that after all the attention given to bringing in new talent at the QB position that Kyle Orton truly was bad and now want him gone and feel Brady's capable of keeping the spot warm until the second coming takes the field.

Personally, I think Tim will be ready very soon :)

Well, I'm not as down about Orton as you. I can argue it both ways, but I'm not willing to jettison the guy too quickly. I'm gonna wait and see how he performs in TC and PS, see if he's upped his game.

Orton is nowhere near the crap QB some of you folks try to make him out to be. I've seen some bad QB's in the NFL, and Orton is not one of them. Not even close.

Broncos4tw
05-10-2010, 09:46 AM
I don't know, it seems pretty simple to me. Would Orton win us the SB next year? I'd have to say no way in hell. Not happening. I don't think he'll win a SB with any team to be honest, unless they have the #1 D in the NFL, or one of the best running games in the league.

If he isn't going to win us a SB next year, it doesn't matter if we play someone who "isn't ready." That gives us a year up on getting these other QBs up to speed.

Do you want two years of guaranteed no playoffs in a row, or do you want a second year QB with some time to develop under his belt trying to make a shot for it? I hate delays. Keeping Orton around is just saying "Let's have one more crappy year, just to be nice to Orton!" There is no point.

Rabb
05-10-2010, 09:49 AM
I don't know, it seems pretty simple to me. Would Orton win us the SB next year? I'd have to say no way in hell. Not happening. I don't think he'll win a SB with any team to be honest, unless they have the #1 D in the NFL, or one of the best running games in the league.

If he isn't going to win us a SB next year, it doesn't matter if we play someone who "isn't ready." That gives us a year up on getting these other QBs up to speed.

Do you want two years of guaranteed no playoffs in a row, or do you want a second year QB with some time to develop under his belt trying to make a shot for it? I hate delays. Keeping Orton around is just saying "Let's have one more crappy year, just to be nice to Orton!" There is no point.

so by that logic, it's ok to not win a SB this year so long as we get a young guy some reps

sorry, I just think that's a terrible idea

oubronco
05-10-2010, 10:02 AM
I think it's funny watching all the Orton nut huggers throw him under the bus and jump on the Tebow train since McD compared him to Brady even though he hasn't even takin a snap in the NFL

sixtimeseight
05-10-2010, 10:04 AM
Orton is an above-average starter in the NFL. Quinn couldn't even start for the Cleveland Browns. Anyone who says that Quinn is a better QB than Orton right now, is ****ing retarded. Although most of the people on here are ****ing retarded, so it's not too much of a surprise the love Quinn is getting around here.

Steve Sewell
05-10-2010, 10:12 AM
Why in the world would Orton want to be traded? This is a contract year for him, and he'll likely be the starter. That is, unless he feels like this season will be worse than last years...

Steve Sewell
05-10-2010, 10:20 AM
I don't know, it seems pretty simple to me. Would Orton win us the SB next year? I'd have to say no way in hell. Not happening. I don't think he'll win a SB with any team to be honest, unless they have the #1 D in the NFL, or one of the best running games in the league.

If he isn't going to win us a SB next year, it doesn't matter if we play someone who "isn't ready." That gives us a year up on getting these other QBs up to speed.

Do you want two years of guaranteed no playoffs in a row, or do you want a second year QB with some time to develop under his belt trying to make a shot for it? I hate delays. Keeping Orton around is just saying "Let's have one more crappy year, just to be nice to Orton!" There is no point.

People say that last year was a crappy year? ROFL people were expecting much, much worse prior to the season. The slide at the end of the year had very little to do with Orton and a lot to do with lack of depth and deterioration of our interior lines, both offensively and defensively. If we can keep our current lines healthy and establish a more effective running game, Orton has the opportunity to put together a much better season. Is he Super Bowl capable? Probably not...but to expect this team to go to the Super Bowl next year is just laughable. This is a team in rebuild mode, and it's good to have an experienced starter who is a winner (Orton has a very impressive starting record by NFL standards) and doesn't make mistakes is a very good thing for a young, rebuilding NFL team.

HAT
05-10-2010, 10:31 AM
Borderline NFL star. Kyle. Our chances are good.

Fixed without adding a single letter! :yayaya:

TonyR
05-10-2010, 11:48 AM
Why trading Kyle Orton makes no sense
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on May 10, 2010 1:44 PM ET

Kyle Orton's career year (3,800 yards, 62% completions, 21:12 TD: INT, 7 YPA) didn't win him a lot of respect in Denver's front office based on the Broncos' offseason moves.

The lack of appreciation is now extending into the media.

A sample from Sunday's Denver Post:

Mark Kizla says Orton would have "rocks for brains" to start another game for the Broncos, and should quietly request a trade.

"Why should Orton stick around and be a clown in the Tim Tebow circus?" Kizla asks.

Woody Paige says the team needs to deal the "Deberg-like" Orton. He is apparently "not a true leader. . . . Orton's soft attitude didn't motivate his teammates. . . . Orton is not a short-term fix or a long-range fit for the Broncos."

We don't agree with either position. Orton's best chance for a big contract elsewhere would be to perform well under McDaniels in Denver. He has the inside track on a starting job to open the season. He'd be crazy to want to leave now to be a backup elsewhere.

Trading Orton sounds good for Denver, but who is giving up anything for him at this point? We can't imagine a team that would invest in Orton. We'd argue that keeping Orton around for another year and retaining his rights is more valuable than some sixth-round pick.

Finally, Orton knows McDaniels' system well and he's the best quarterback on the roster.

Here's a scary notion for Denver: he might still be the best quarterback in two years.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/10/why-trading-kyle-orton-makes-no-sense/

oubronco
05-10-2010, 11:54 AM
who said they would even get a 6th

Cito Pelon
05-10-2010, 12:10 PM
I think it's funny watching all the Orton nut huggers throw him under the bus and jump on the Tebow train since McD compared him to Brady even though he hasn't even takin a snap in the NFL

I don't see a lot of people that know football throwing Orton under the bus.

oubronco
05-10-2010, 12:36 PM
I don't see a lot of people that know football throwing Orton under the bus.

Keep looking it's the ones who thought he was all world last year but now we have Teblow and Orton sucks to them

HAT
05-10-2010, 01:06 PM
Rosenthal is correct. Orton will be a top 8-9 QB stats wise next year if he is Denver's starter.

Orton's contract value goes up & so does his trade value in a tag & trade.

Win/Win.

Cito Pelon
05-10-2010, 01:21 PM
Keep looking it's the ones who thought he was all world last year but now we have Teblow and Orton sucks to them

In your world, ok. In reality, no.

TonyR
05-10-2010, 01:33 PM
I think it's funny watching all the Orton nut huggers throw him under the bus and jump on the Tebow train since McD compared him to Brady even though he hasn't even takin a snap in the NFL

I don't think the comparison to Brady has anything to do with it. And I supported Orton last year but at the same time I am aware of his limitations and hope we can do better. But if he's the best option week 1 then he should start.

NYBronco
05-10-2010, 01:57 PM
I think Orton is an above average QB in the NFL and he played very well for the Broncos last year. He played through injuries that kept him out for a few games and still managed to be the 14th ranked QB last year. He played behind a suspect Oline and on an offense that was transitioning in terms of system/scheme and attitude.

I would like to see Orton play out his second year in the Bronco system. I hope he plays well to increase his value for himself and the Broncos. Brandstater, Quinn and Tebow can all wait another year.

oubronco
05-10-2010, 02:26 PM
I don't think the comparison to Brady has anything to do with it. And I supported Orton last year but at the same time I am aware of his limitations and hope we can do better. But if he's the best option week 1 then he should start.

Exactly

Atwater His Ass
05-10-2010, 03:36 PM
Rosenthal is correct. Orton will be a top 8-9 QB stats wise next year if he is Denver's starter.

Orton's contract value goes up & so does his trade value in a tag & trade.

Win/Win.

Top 8 or 9? LET THE OUTRAGEOUS ORTON SPECULATION BEGIN!!

Orton is a borderline starter. He's not a top 10 QB. However, the fact that he plays a premium, no wait, the premium position in the game, is the only reason he'd be worth a mid-round pick.

Contrary to all the homers last season, Orton was just a throw in for the Cutler trade, and McD never planned to make a future with the guy. He's a place holder until McD could find his guy. And now that he's found him, clock is ticking for Orton. Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

HAT
05-10-2010, 04:40 PM
Top 8 or 9? LET THE OUTRAGEOUS ORTON SPECULATION BEGIN!!

Orton is a borderline starter. He's not a top 10 QB. Tick-tock.

You do realize that he pretty much ranked between 12th & 14th in all the relevant QB stats last year right?

GoBroncos84
05-10-2010, 05:33 PM
I think the person who would be best to trade at this point is Brandstater. He has looked good in the limited playing time he has had, the coaching staff seems to really like him, I can definitely see him developing into a starting QB at some point. However, he has been replaced by Tebow as "Quarterback of the Future". You can really only have one. You don't draft a first round QB if you don't plan on him being your franchise quarterback at some point. Brady Quinn should serve as a very solid backup who has experience in the system we run and hasn't reached his full potential yet. Orton would be the starter if the season started today, so it would be silly to trade him right now. He has one year left on his deal, it is expected that either Quinn or Tebow will have won the starting job by next season. Keep Orton, let him teach the young guys and play for the year unless they can beat him out in camp. He leaves in free agency next offseason, we get a compensation pick. Get what you can for Brandstater this year, unless you think he can clear waivers and be a PS player. Which is unlikely. Seems like the most logical approach to me. Only one QB can play at a time (Tebow can play some wildcat, but in general). You want a solid backup. The third can be a developmental player or veteran, but is an easy position to fill and most likely doesn't see the field. A 4th QB is unnecessary. Someone has to go

watermock
05-10-2010, 05:42 PM
Trade him 4 what?

Jesus.

He will be cut.

Rabb
05-10-2010, 06:28 PM
Trade him 4 what?

Jesus.

He will be cut.

you are such a moron mock

no, really

Circle Orange
05-10-2010, 07:51 PM
Whatever Kisla and Woody say. They're the masterminds.

Yes, those "sugary" two have revealed their true selves:

According to reports out of Jacksonville, the Jaguars have asked about a deal for Quinn. But the Broncos have been impressed with Quinn in OTAs (organized team activities) and will not let him go.

Yes, I know the feeling. :~ohyah!: Even so, I find it curious they want only the best looking quarterbacks to remain on the roster. It's painfully clear this story has nothing to do with football!

Meanwhile, only a dimwit would have a whole roster of qbs with little experience (bare chests and bulging thighs aside.)

Somewhere out there, Jake is texting Orton in sympathy...

HAT
06-04-2010, 09:26 PM
I think the Broncos know that Quin, Tebow and Brandstater have more potential to become great players then Orton and don't want to risk losing one of them.

Cool story bro.

gunns
06-04-2010, 09:34 PM
Orton is an above-average starter in the NFL. Quinn couldn't even start for the Cleveland Browns. Anyone who says that Quinn is a better QB than Orton right now, is ****ing retarded. Although most of the people on here are ****ing retarded, so it's not too much of a surprise the love Quinn is getting around here.

Which explains why you came here and feel you fit in. You don't. A Raider board would probably be a better fit for your brand of retardation.

Paladin
06-04-2010, 10:33 PM
Actually, dropping the expletives, he has a point........

Popps
06-04-2010, 10:51 PM
Yea, let's trade away the one guy we know can run the system and go with two complete unknowns, to the point where we could literally have no one competent enough to start next season.

We know that when things go right around him, Orton can at least keep us competitive.

Again, he's not making much money. Why not just keep him in the mix. If he loses the job in camp or PS, then we can talk about a trade.

Cito Pelon
06-05-2010, 08:05 AM
Yea, let's trade away the one guy we know can run the system and go with two complete unknowns, to the point where we could literally have no one competent enough to start next season.

We know that when things go right around him, Orton can at least keep us competitive.

Again, he's not making much money. Why not just keep him in the mix. If he loses the job in camp or PS, then we can talk about a trade.

Yeah, pretty silly idea - but that's Woody, Kiszla, and some Bronco fans. One slapstick act after another.

I've heard Orton is ridiculously far ahead of Quinn at this point.

strafen
06-05-2010, 08:14 AM
Yea, let's trade away the one guy we know can run the system and go with two complete unknowns, to the point where we could literally have no one competent enough to start next season.

We know that when things go right around him, Orton can at least keep us competitive.

Again, he's not making much money. Why not just keep him in the mix. If he loses the job in camp or PS, then we can talk about a trade.Orton of course knows the system. And as you've admitted and as everyone else is aware of, Orton needs to have a good solid OL, running game, good defense and ST's to be able to keep us in a game. Lack of playmakers on offense is not helping either.

When you consider the fact that our LT is coming off a patella tendon surgery, when you consider we will have a new guy at LG, center and our RT is also in rehab, things don't look good for Orton. He will have to re-invent himself and become very mobile because he's going to need it.

So, when you look at the current state of our OL, you need to be concerned not only about Orton, but also about our running game.
At this point, having a mobile QB who can improvise is far a better choice than having Orton behind center under those circumstances

TheReverend
06-05-2010, 10:24 AM
Yeah, pretty silly idea - but that's Woody, Kiszla, and some Bronco fans. One slapstick act after another.

I've heard Orton is ridiculously far ahead of Quinn at this point.

I'd hope so... 1+ years vs 3 weeks

Miss I.
06-05-2010, 01:39 PM
I'd hope so... 1+ years vs 3 weeks

yep.

Hulamau
06-05-2010, 02:17 PM
Yea, let's trade away the one guy we know can run the system and go with two complete unknowns, to the point where we could literally have no one competent enough to start next season.

We know that when things go right around him, Orton can at least keep us competitive.

Again, he's not making much money. Why not just keep him in the mix. If he loses the job in camp or PS, then we can talk about a trade.

Exactly, no one is trading Orton. Its a win-win for everyone. Orton gets to showcase his skills for the highest bidder in the second year in this system which should really help both his stock in the future and the teams fortunes this year, along with everyone else in their second year ( assuming Clady comes back before too many games are played ... hopefully by end of September at 95% and good to go).

And Quinn, Tebow get a year to fine tune it and merge with the playback and team. If Orton wins a SB or goes deep to the AFC championship[ game and plays well then that is a wonderful delimma to deal with next year.

If Tim needs one more year to be fully ready to take the helm (doubt it will take that long), then with Brady in his fifth year in the NFL and second in this already familiar system should be good enough a decent competitive season next year as well with a good cast of guys and the full NEW oline behind him and all the new linemen with at least one year under their belt in this system on this team.

Bottomline Josh isnt sending Kyle anywhere unless Tebow AND Brady suddenly morph into the second coming of a seasoned Elway half way through training camp. He wants at least two guys that can play QB at a high solid level and isnt about to jettison our most experienced guy this year until he has that in Tebow and Quinn.

Cito Pelon
06-06-2010, 07:38 AM
I'd hope so... 1+ years vs 3 weeks

The point is, I've heard so much baloney about how "Quinn is ready to take over the reigns, so trade Orton". But it's not true. It's just plain goofy to think Quinn will produce a better record than Orton for Denver this season.

Cito Pelon
06-06-2010, 07:46 AM
yep.

Again, to quote Popps:

"Yea, let's trade away the one guy we know can run the system and go with two complete unknowns, to the point where we could literally have no one competent enough to start next season.

We know that when things go right around him, Orton can at least keep us competitive."

That says it all right there. I'm thinking it's just plain goofy to think Denver is better without Orton. And I bet the vets on the team think it's just plain goofy also.

strafen
06-06-2010, 09:20 PM
Again, to quote Popps:

"Yea, let's trade away the one guy we know can run the system and go with two complete unknowns, to the point where we could literally have no one competent enough to start next season.

We know that when things go right around him, Orton can at least keep us competitive."

That says it all right there. I'm thinking it's just plain goofy to think Denver is better without Orton. And I bet the vets on the team think it's just plain goofy also.After releasing Brandstater, any talks about trading Orton is now a moot point. We will keep him.
The question yet to be answered is whether or not he will be the starter...

gyldenlove
06-06-2010, 09:36 PM
After releasing Brandstater, any talks about trading Orton is now a moot point. We will keep him.
The question yet to be answered is whether or not he will be the starter...

Short of an injury there is no way he doesn't start. He has done absolutely everything one could ask of him and he is getting the number 1 reps uncontested.

He knows the system better than Quinn and Tebow, he has more NFL experience, he has more NFL success and he has comfort level with the returning starters and coaches.

Miss I.
06-06-2010, 09:51 PM
Again, to quote Popps:

"Yea, let's trade away the one guy we know can run the system and go with two complete unknowns, to the point where we could literally have no one competent enough to start next season.

We know that when things go right around him, Orton can at least keep us competitive."

That says it all right there. I'm thinking it's just plain goofy to think Denver is better without Orton. And I bet the vets on the team think it's just plain goofy also.

really, gonna give me a ration of crap for agreeing with Rev. Do you know how often that even happens. I do think he should be a better QB at this point, he's been in the NFL longer and had more time in actual NFL games, that's what I was agreeing to. I don't think we should trade him now. I think he is our best option for the time being. Personally, whoever gets us the W is okay by me, doesn't matter to me which one it is.

Tombstone RJ
06-06-2010, 10:19 PM
Has any other team acquired Brandstatter?

strafen
06-06-2010, 10:21 PM
Short of an injury there is no way he doesn't start. He has done absolutely everything one could ask of him and he is getting the number 1 reps uncontested.

He knows the system better than Quinn and Tebow, he has more NFL experience, he has more NFL success and he has comfort level with the returning starters and coaches.Orton was asked to do the things Mcdaniels asked him to do.
His stats while good, were also "padded" aided by the fact that McDaniels controlled all the plays he designed for Orton.
To say the numbers Orton put up last year were a product of his natural talents to play QB is stretching it.

Now, to respond to your comment in bold above...
Read this from last week...
Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said Monday that he's not looking to trade QB Kyle Orton, but he softened his commitment to Orton being the team's starter in Week 1.

McDaniels, who in March said there was "no question" that Orton was the starter, said that the veteran will have to earn the job by holding off Brady Quinn and Tim Tebow in training camp.

Said McDaniels:

"The starter is the starter until somebody beats him out. Everybody earns their own role. The best player will play, that's all I'm saying. It doesn't matter if it's at defensive end, punter, quarterback, center, if he's the best player he's playing.

"And right now he's the best player. He's in there first in the huddle. He knows the most. Does that mean that that's a guarantee for this season? No, and he knows that. Every quarterback knows that. Every player knows it."

Orton started 15 games for the Broncos last season. Denver acquired Brady Quinn via trade and then drafted Tebow in the first round last month.

Orton's name has surfaced in trade rumors recently, as Quinn's did earlier this month. But McDaniels said such rumors were off-base:

"There's not one quarterback on our roster that's been discussed or would be discussed at this point in any trade talks or anything else for that matter. We're going to let them compete and the best guy is going to play."

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/05/josh-mcdaniels-no-guarantee-kyle-orton-will-be-broncos-starter-in-week-1/1

Popps
06-06-2010, 11:35 PM
Orton of course knows the system. And as you've admitted and as everyone else is aware of, Orton needs to have a good solid OL, running game, good defense and ST's to be able to keep us in a game. Lack of playmakers on offense is not helping either.

When you consider the fact that our LT is coming off a patella tendon surgery, when you consider we will have a new guy at LG, center and our RT is also in rehab, things don't look good for Orton. He will have to re-invent himself and become very mobile because he's going to need it.

So, when you look at the current state of our OL, you need to be concerned not only about Orton, but also about our running game.
At this point, having a mobile QB who can improvise is far a better choice than having Orton behind center under those circumstances

Agree about the line and the running game. I spent the 2nd half of last season complaining about our blocking up front.

But, when you say "a mobile QB who can improvise".... I think you have to say, "a mobile QB who can improvise... and knows the system.... and is an efficient passer... and takes care of the ball.... and is ready to play right now."

In other words, a better quarterback.

Right now, we don't have any proof that our back-ups can lead the offense as efficiently as Orton did in the first half of the season. (Again, if he doesn't **** up his ankle at Washington, we probably lock down a playoff spot by game 10.)

Don't mistake this for me saying he's definitely the QB who can take us to the promise-land. Not saying that at all. I just think it's a big stretch to talk about trading this guy, when we have no idea if either one of our back-ups is even close to being ready in this system.

With one year on his contract, it just seems like a no-brainer to keep around the one guy who we KNOW can run the offense somewhat efficiently. Even as a back-up, if it came to that. It provides a level of confidence to the offense that we at least have ONE guy who has proven he can play pretty well when things are working around him. Certainly, we should look to improve the position as that possibility makes itself evident... and clearly, given our drafting a QB fairly high... we're interested in improving.

TheReverend
06-07-2010, 05:31 AM
Again, to quote Popps:

"Yea, let's trade away the one guy we know can run the system and go with two complete unknowns, to the point where we could literally have no one competent enough to start next season.

We know that when things go right around him, Orton can at least keep us competitive."

That says it all right there. I'm thinking it's just plain goofy to think Denver is better without Orton. And I bet the vets on the team think it's just plain goofy also.

Who's advocating trading him?

gyldenlove
06-07-2010, 06:32 AM
Orton was asked to do the things Mcdaniels asked him to do.
His stats while good, were also "padded" aided by the fact that McDaniels controlled all the plays he designed for Orton.
To say the numbers Orton put up last year were a product of his natural talents to play QB is stretching it.

Now, to respond to your comment in bold above...
Read this from last week...


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/05/josh-mcdaniels-no-guarantee-kyle-orton-will-be-broncos-starter-in-week-1/1

Orton played last year with injuries, he learned the system as much as he could despite not having a full offseason to do, he came in this offseason and practiced despite not having a contract signed yet, and he signed his RFA tender early.

Is Orton going to put up 5000 yards and 50 TDs? no we all know that is never going to happen, but did he put up very good numbers last year and did he give the team a shot at being competitive in the majority of games he played? I would so.

That comment from McD is from the first rookie camp I think, it is quite old anyway. Certainly that is true, the best QB will start, however given the time and experience the three players will have had in Mcdaniels non-trivial system when the season starts, I believe Orton will be the clear leader of the 3. As long as he rolls with the starters in camp, there is no way he will be unseated as starter, he will be building experience with the top skill players and offensive line and that alone will make him the best choice.