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Gort
05-08-2010, 10:57 AM
this is almost unbelievable, except that we all know that this sort of CONTROL over every aspect of our lives is what the nameless, faceless, progressive bureaucrats crave. they write and implement these regulations without any sort of oversight by the voters and taxpayers.

http://www.khou.com/news/Candy-Gets-Third-Grader-A-Weeks-Detention-93033319.html

...looking forward to the mental gymnastics all you smarmy liberals are going to go through to try and justify this as appropriate.

BTW, this is OT of course, but we are in off-season mode so have at it... :D

gunns
05-08-2010, 11:05 AM
As stupid as the zero tolerance enforced, where 3rd graders are suspended for days for bringing a plastic knife to school to cut an apple, a day suspension for chewing gum in class or a 5th grader suspended for defending himself while 3 other kids kick the crap out of him, that was implemented during the Bush I administration. I know because I put up with it. It's all stupid, there needs to be a sense of reality. I have no problem with trying to get our kids to eat better, but a week suspension for one candy?

Gort
05-08-2010, 11:14 AM
As stupid as the zero tolerance enforced, where 3rd graders are suspended for days for bringing a plastic knife to school to cut an apple, a day suspension for chewing gum in class or a 5th grader suspended for defending himself while 3 other kids kick the crap out of him, that was implemented during the Bush I administration. I know because I put up with it. It's all stupid, there needs to be a sense of reality. I have no problem with trying to get our kids to eat better, but a week suspension for one candy?

it's not really the president doing this stuff... it's the entrenched anonymous bureaucracy that exists almost untouched from one administration to the next. you can't fire them because you don't know who they are until stories like this come out, but there are tens of thousands of people working on all sorts of regulations that affect every aspect of our lives. under Clinton, they outlawed certain types of toilets. under Bush II, they started the ban on incandescent lightbulbs. it never stops. this is what happens with big government and an "elite" ruling class that thinks it knows best how you should live your life. i'm sick of them all... but i'm mostly sick of the people who think that we need a government to do exactly this sort of thing. my attitude is that the government has only 3 duties: defend our borders, deliver our mail, and stay the hell out of our lives!

Archer81
05-08-2010, 11:15 AM
Suspended for a week because of one jolly rancher? Thats just ****ing stupid.


:Broncos:

gunns
05-08-2010, 11:19 AM
it's not really the president doing this stuff... it's the entrenched anonymous bureaucracy that exists almost untouched from one administration to the next. you can't fire them because you don't know who they are until stories like this come out, but there are tens of thousands of people working on all sorts of regulations that affect every aspect of our lives. under Clinton, they outlawed certain types of toilets. under Bush II, they started the ban on incandescent lightbulbs. it never stops. this is what happens with big government and an "elite" ruling class that thinks it knows best how you should live your life. i'm sick of them all... but i'm mostly sick of the people who think that we need a government to do exactly this sort of thing. my attitude is that the government has only 3 duties: defend our borders, deliver our mail, and stay the hell out of our lives!

Hmmm, then I have to wonder why the "smarmy liberal" comment. If it's each administration and some anonymous bureaucracy. After the huge government under Bush, I'd say Big Government has become both conservative and liberal.

UberBroncoMan
05-08-2010, 11:38 AM
This country has been going down the ****ter for a while. Everyone is too stupid to live their own life and make their own decisions when it comes to the government.

Sadly this is true in many respects. People are stupid. But ironically people also run the government (who'd have guessed), and the majority of those with all the power are manipulative and complete ****ing idiots.

It's about getting people used to stuff. Once you get an entire generation used to control over their lives, it becomes the norm. The people who were around before that die off eventually. That's why we're seeing so many needy, adult kids.

littlebear
05-08-2010, 11:44 AM
By their own admission the "pc" crowd now refers to themselves as "secular
progressives". Still trying to pimp the global warming scam, brainwashing
our kids & apologizing for America's greatness. They have yet been unable
to figure out why the TEA PARTIES are forming......

fdf
05-08-2010, 11:54 AM
Hmmm, then I have to wonder why the "smarmy liberal" comment. If it's each administration and some anonymous bureaucracy. After the huge government under Bush, I'd say Big Government has become both conservative and liberal.

I used to complain a lot about excess spending and increase in gvt regulation under Bush. I would joke that Bush was spending like a drunken democrat. Turns out, I had no idea what drunken democrats could do if they controlled congress and the presidency.

The deficits are so ridiculous now, we are almost desensitized to them. Noone in human history has ever come close to a 1.5 trillion deficit before--it's more than 10 times the size of the 2006 deficits. (That was the last year Bush and the R's had control of congress was 2006.) The deficit in 2006 was 150 billion.

I thought $150 billion was way too much. I criticized Bush and the R congress for it rather loudly. I objected to TARP. But at least TARP was a one time excessive expenditure--not year after year. But after just one year of unchallengable rule by the left, the deficit is about $1,500 billion as far as the eye can see. Today, I would be grateful to get back to $150 billion some time in my life although I don't see any possibility of that.

The Republicans suck in a lot of ways--so we share a lot of cynicism about the political system. But at a very minimum, this administration has to be subject to some serious checks and balances. Unfortunately, the American public tossed out the checks and balances in 2008. Unchecked rule by the left has been an unmitigated disaster and my son will be paying for their misrule 50 years from now. I'll be dead as will all the jerks who have orchestrated this disaster, knowing exactly what they are doing. But at least they got to pay off their political contributers with my son's inheritance. They won. We (America) lost.

snowspot66
05-08-2010, 11:59 AM
By their own admission the "pc" crowd now refers to themselves as "secular
progressives". Still trying to pimp the global warming scam, brainwashing
our kids & apologizing for America's greatness. They have yet been unable
to figure out why the TEA PARTIES are forming......

You've been here for five years and your fourth post is this garbage?

Obushma
05-08-2010, 12:01 PM
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ScottXray
05-08-2010, 12:03 PM
I used to complain a lot about excess spending and increase in gvt regulation under Bush. I would joke that Bush was spending like a drunken democrat. Turns out, I had no idea what drunken democrats could do if they controlled congress and the presidency.

The deficits are so ridiculous now, we are almost desensitized to them. Noone in human history has ever come close to a 1.5 trillion deficit before--it's more than 10 times the size of the 2006 deficits. (That was the last year Bush and the R's had control of congress was 2006.) The deficit in 2006 was 150 billion.

I thought $150 billion was way too much. I criticized Bush and the R congress for it rather loudly. I objected to TARP. But at least TARP was a one time excessive expenditure--not year after year. But after just one year of unchallengable rule by the left, the deficit is about $1,500 billion as far as the eye can see. Today, I would be grateful to get back to $150 billion some time in my life although I don't see any possibility of that.

The Republicans suck in a lot of ways--so we share a lot of cynicism about the political system. But at a very minimum, this administration has to be subject to some serious checks and balances. Unfortunately, the American public tossed out the checks and balances in 2008. Unchecked rule by the left has been an unmitigated disaster and my son will be paying for their misrule 50 years from now. I'll be dead as will all the jerks who have orchestrated this disaster, knowing exactly what they are doing. But at least they got to pay off their political contributers with my son's inheritance. They won. We (America) lost.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but the deficits under Bush were a lot higher than what you listed , because he never included ANY of the costs of the Iraq war in his budgets. When that is included his deficit in 2007-8 was at 1.1 trillion. And the Executive branch sets the Budget....Which Congress promptly messes up by including all the perks each district includes.

Anyway, yes the deficit is out of control....but it has been for at least 10 years now.

Archer81
05-08-2010, 12:04 PM
Common sense has been shot in the back of the head and buried in the desert.

:Broncos:

BroncosSR
05-08-2010, 12:04 PM
this is almost unbelievable, except that we all know that this sort of CONTROL over every aspect of our lives is what the nameless, faceless, progressive bureaucrats crave. they write and implement these regulations without any sort of oversight by the voters and taxpayers.

http://www.khou.com/news/Candy-Gets-Third-Grader-A-Weeks-Detention-93033319.html

...looking forward to the mental gymnastics all you smarmy liberals are going to go through to try and justify this as appropriate.

BTW, this is OT of course, but we are in off-season mode so have at it... :D

Your welcome to get the f**k out...

We stood through your 8 years of stupidity...

Archer81
05-08-2010, 12:06 PM
Your welcome to get the **** out...

We stood through your 8 years of stupidity...


...so you admit the Obama administration is stupid?

Honesty is so refreshing.


:Broncos:

Gort
05-08-2010, 12:06 PM
Hmmm, then I have to wonder why the "smarmy liberal" comment. If it's each administration and some anonymous bureaucracy. After the huge government under Bush, I'd say Big Government has become both conservative and liberal.

neither Bush was a conservative. not by any stretch of the imagination.

maybe "smarmy liberal" is a bit much, but liberals are the ones always telling everyone else how to live their lives. for example, Bloomberg in NYC (a liberal) is working on passing an ordinance to prevent restaurants from adding salt to their food, because he considers salt bad for people. forget customer's choice. he wants the government to determine which behaviors are good and bad and to criminalize what he considers to be bad.

the government in DC is a monstrosity that our founding fathers would abhor. both political parties are responsible for the mess.

you might be surprised at how much anger we conservatives have toward both Bushes at this point. for a hundred different reasons too!

Gort
05-08-2010, 12:09 PM
Your welcome to get the **** out...

We stood through your 8 years of stupidity...

it's my country, not yours. you leave. you'd love France.

bombquixote
05-08-2010, 12:24 PM
it's my country, not yours.

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say...ours.

baja
05-08-2010, 12:29 PM
This country has been going down the ****ter for a while. Everyone is too stupid to live their own life and make their own decisions when it comes to the government.

Sadly this is true in many respects. People are stupid. But ironically people also run the government (who'd have guessed), and the majority of those with all the power are manipulative and complete ****ing idiots.

<b>It's about getting people used to stuff. Once you get an entire generation used to control over their lives, it becomes the norm. The people who were around before that die off eventually. </b> That's why we're seeing so many needy, adult kids.

This is so true !

Many of you will never know what a truly great country we once had. It breaks my heart.

Gort
05-08-2010, 01:06 PM
I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say...ours.

actually, it's owned by the Chicoms now. we're all squatters until they get around to evicting us. :(

Que
05-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Whois... You're are insult to your nick namesake. This sort of thing has been going on in schools for decades. Nothing new here. Plus, check the county/state. That's tea party territory there...

Gort
05-08-2010, 01:37 PM
Whois... You're are insult to your nick namesake. This sort of thing has been going on in schools for decades. Nothing new here. Plus, check the county/state. That's tea party territory there...

Dept. of Education & Dept. of Agriculture write the federal rules. those are DC bureaucracies. Austin, TX is the capitol of Texas. very liberal. they write statewide rules. schoolteachers are members of the NEA and subsidiary unions. very liberal. these stupid rules are not something that tea party people created.

the username is not a namesake. the username is not JohnGalt. it's WhoIsJohnGalt. that has a very precise meaning. read the book.

OrangenBlueOhio
05-08-2010, 01:48 PM
It seems to me everyone would like to see something besides a Democrat or Republican in charge, why can't we get it done? Is there some kind of underground alliance that infiltrates every independent movement to derail it. People have been complaining about politics as usual for years, yet we still get the same old same ole. I guess we truly are cows.

OrangenBlueOhio
05-08-2010, 01:50 PM
How's the grass over there taste?

Obushma
05-08-2010, 01:51 PM
It seems to me everyone would like to see something besides a Democrat or Republican in charge, why can't we get it done? Is there some kind of underground alliance that infiltrates every independent movement to derail it. People have been complaining about politics as usual for years, yet we still get the same old same ole. I guess we truly are cows.

It's because 80% of the population is dumb as ****. As you've been here two years, i'm sure you've witnessed that number here.

TJ did a nice job of explaining it here....
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=89496

Paladin
05-08-2010, 02:03 PM
"School officials in Brazos County are defending the seemingly harsh sentence. The school’s principal and superintendent said they were simply complying with a state law that limits junk food in schools."


Well, I'd say that the National government had nothing to do with this incidend. It's a fuggin STATE LAW, dipstick. Maybe you should rail against the School Board or maybe the State of Texas.

But doin't let logic interfere here. It is so cute to see teabaggers and wanabes crack up. It's so cute and gives great lessons in irony.

Is it dumb to rail against the Federal Government for a State law? Or actions of a LOCAL SCHOOL BOARD?

Lotta dumb ***s out there, aren't there?t

BroncoBuff
05-08-2010, 02:12 PM
I can't see how this has anything to do with liberals or Obama ... it's Texas for heaven's sake. It's a Texas state law, one of the most conservative state legislatures ever ... they mete out the death penalty like a supermarket express line. Sheesh, the governor is even threatening the state might secede. To pretend this is liberals is just, man you're so in denial ....


But on the bright side, thank goodness we have President Obama! And a new liberal law he passed. We now exclude private banks altogether from giving student loans. So at least kids spend a bit less for their eductaion now.
http://www.truthout.org/obama-signs-sweeping-student-loan-reform-bill-into-law58162

Is there anything he can't do?

OrangenBlueOhio
05-08-2010, 02:21 PM
It's because 80% of the population is dumb as ****. As you've been here two years, i'm sure you've witnessed that number here.

TJ did a nice job of explaining it here....
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=89496

Read the post but don't see myself in any of them.

As for "interventionism" I say let's get the heck out. Let e'm fight it out and we'll go from there. We stick our noses intotoo many fights.

Things like gun control, I can see regulations on handguns, as the song goes, "handguns are made for killing ain't no good for nothin else". But you should be able to own one to protect your house and family.

Things like "socialism" my view is this. When CEO's pay has increased 1000 times more than the guy who's actually makin the stuff, I don't have a problem with redistribution of wealth. It'll slide the other way eventually.

As for abortion, if someone is raped they should be able to get an abortion. If you find out the child will be sick/due to die anyway, abortions should be allowed. Otherwise adoption.

As for the whole gay/lesbian debate, I don't believe anyone is truly gay or lesbian. The emotion of love was given to us to foster the family unit. To protect. We were given reproductive parts for a reason.

I guess my point is there are a lot of people who are more middle of the road than the democrats and republicans would have you believe.

OABB
05-08-2010, 04:15 PM
Read the post but don't see myself in any of them.

As for "interventionism" I say let's get the heck out. Let e'm fight it out and we'll go from there. We stick our noses intotoo many fights.

Things like gun control, I can see regulations on handguns, as the song goes, "handguns are made for killing ain't no good for nothin else". But you should be able to own one to protect your house and family.

Things like "socialism" my view is this. When CEO's pay has increased 1000 times more than the guy who's actually makin the stuff, I don't have a problem with redistribution of wealth. It'll slide the other way eventually.

As for abortion, if someone is raped they should be able to get an abortion. If you find out the child will be sick/due to die anyway, abortions should be allowed. Otherwise adoption.

As for the whole gay/lesbian debate, I don't believe anyone is truly gay or lesbian. The emotion of love was given to us to foster the family unit. To protect. We were given reproductive parts for a reason.

I guess my point is there are a lot of people who are more middle of the road than the democrats and republicans would have you believe.

Socialist! Burn him!

Gort
05-08-2010, 04:39 PM
"School officials in Brazos County are defending the seemingly harsh sentence. The school’s principal and superintendent said they were simply complying with a state law that limits junk food in schools."


Well, I'd say that the National government had nothing to do with this incidend. It's a fuggin STATE LAW, dipstick. Maybe you should rail against the School Board or maybe the State of Texas.

But doin't let logic interfere here. It is so cute to see teabaggers and wanabes crack up. It's so cute and gives great lessons in irony.

Is it dumb to rail against the Federal Government for a State law? Or actions of a LOCAL SCHOOL BOARD?

Lotta dumb ***s out there, aren't there?t

get bent you sodomite.

if you'd learn to read, you'd see that i mentioned STATE laws & regs being made in AUSTIN as part of the problem as well.

but keep up your assault on common sense... it amuses me.

:welcome:

Drek
05-08-2010, 04:48 PM
get bent you sodomite.

if you'd learn to read, you'd see that i mentioned STATE laws & regs being made in AUSTIN as part of the problem as well.

but keep up your assault on common sense... it amuses me.

:welcome:

So the most conservative state in the union passes a law you disagree with. They happen to convene in a generally middle of the road/slightly left city. The majority of that legislature is still extremely conservative.

Yet this is all a big display of how them damn libruls are ruining your life huh?

Paladin
05-08-2010, 05:35 PM
get bent you sodomite.

if you'd learn to read, you'd see that i mentioned STATE laws & regs being made in AUSTIN as part of the problem as well.

but keep up your assault on common sense... it amuses me.

:welcome:

Fug you, you fascist pig......

You cry about government until you need need help from the government. You rail against govenment until you need a police officer, or use the roads and bridges, and the parks. You rail against government but your momma and poppa and grandma are on SS and get Medicare. And they could use a hospital, ya know? You bit** about government until you want protection against bank failures to the tune of 250,000 dollars from the FDIC. Per account. You gripe about big government until the tornados blow your ass out of your homes and then you want FEMA to help you. You rail agaisnt government until your realize that the military is protecting your sorry, smelly ass agaisnt a lot of really, really bad people.

Big mouth, no smarts. That's you and your teabagging bs breathern.

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2010, 06:01 PM
So the most conservative state in the union passes a law you disagree with. They happen to convene in a generally middle of the road/slightly left city. The majority of that legislature is still extremely conservative.

Yet this is all a big display of how them damn libruls are ruining your life huh?

I think he made it pretty clear that the school beauracracy, already a monstrosity in itself, is weighed down further with federal mandates and regulations.

I think that the difference is stark and pronounced between the tax rebate voucher systems that conservatives advocate and the federal education beauracracy that liberals advocate. There are clear differences.

Gort
05-08-2010, 06:03 PM
Fug you, you fascist pig......

communism... socialism... facsism... nazism... all leftwing ideologies. your people. your belief systems. but since you're little more than chattle, you will mindlessly vote for whoever your union bosses and commisars tell you too. and if your side achieves full power... that's when they start lining people up against the wall. people like you. willful idiots. fellow travelers. they won't need you anymore. remember, gulags... concentration camps... little red books... re-education centers... again, all thought up and implemented by left wingers like yourself. and don't expect people like me to pull your butts out of the fire either. i'll be laughing my ass off as they drag you off to their gas chambers. because that's what progressives do. now it's unborn babies and the elderly they want to kill. but soon they'll turn to those of you in their own movement who aren't ideologically pure enough for them. i'll be singing the star spangled banner to my grave. it seems you've already replaced it with the internationale.

Archer81
05-08-2010, 06:37 PM
Fug you, you fascist pig......

You cry about government until you need need help from the government. You rail against govenment until you need a police officer, or use the roads and bridges, and the parks. You rail against government but your momma and poppa and grandma are on SS and get Medicare. And they could use a hospital, ya know? You bit** about government until you want protection against bank failures to the tune of 250,000 dollars from the FDIC. Per account. You gripe about big government until the tornados blow your ass out of your homes and then you want FEMA to help you. You rail agaisnt government until your realize that the military is protecting your sorry, smelly ass agaisnt a lot of really, really bad people.

Big mouth, no smarts. That's you and your teabagging bs breathern.


So in your opinion, because bad things happen we need a federal government to protect us from it?

So what happens when government tells you what you can buy (who needs a tv or a car or a house...and if you need one, lets add a VAT to it), what you can eat (you dont need that much salt or sweets or red meat), what you can read or say (cuz it might have a word that may offend somebody or you might have an opinion different then those in power), how to vote (card check...union sponsored...wonder why), how warm or cool you keep your home (I mean surely someone in DC thinks its best if the thermostat is always at 68), how to raise your children (year round, government backed schools), how much money you earn(because its greedy to try to make as much as possible, even if you deserve it), opposing amnesty for illegals (you are racist if you dont think its cool for illegals to enter the country)...

Government has a role...the last 15 years the government has exceeded that role. You can go ahead and label everyone who thinks large government is dangerous a tea-bagger, but when the government is so big, and so intrusive in your personal life do not bitch to anyone. You only have yourself to blame.

:Broncos:

orinjkrush
05-08-2010, 06:45 PM
you know it really is about too big...
big finance
big gubmint
big defense
big insurance
big banks
big education
big healthcare
big religion

anti-monopolies has an inherent wisdom to it. TR was right. So was Andy Jackson.

OldschoolFreak
05-08-2010, 07:09 PM
it's not really the president doing this stuff... it's the entrenched anonymous bureaucracy that exists almost untouched from one administration to the next. you can't fire them because you don't know who they are until stories like this come out, but there are tens of thousands of people working on all sorts of regulations that affect every aspect of our lives. under Clinton, they outlawed certain types of toilets. under Bush II, they started the ban on incandescent lightbulbs. it never stops. this is what happens with big government and an "elite" ruling class that thinks it knows best how you should live your life. i'm sick of them all... but i'm mostly sick of the people who think that we need a government to do exactly this sort of thing. my attitude is that the government has only 3 duties: defend our borders, deliver our mail, and stay the hell out of our lives!

Please. This is ridiculous.

The only reason you have the freedom, stability, prosperity, etc. to write this is the government protected rights and economic prosperity you enjoy. You're like the Tea Party hack that bitched about Big Government and encouraged violence against elected representatives while happily collecting his Social Security check.

This is obnoxious hypocrisy and based on completely erroneous analysis anyway.

Who would you replace the teachers with? How would you make it better? Could this possibly be a news report taken out of context? Did you even bother to dig into it a little bit before launching your tirade? Seriously, what is your solution to this overwhelming attack on your freedoms (and have you ever even been to say North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, or any other place where the population really does have to fear the tyranny of government)? Get rid of all government? Yeah, that works really well friend; take a look at Somalia.

Your anger is misplaced and misinformed though I suppose you are the type of individual that would be angry about something whoever is in power or how well the economy is doing. You're the type that rails on everyone for being unAmerican when really it's your bigotry, close-mindedness, and obsession with half baked utopian ideas that misrepresents our democracy.

Seriously, chill the **** out and appreciate what you have or do something REAL to make it better. And no, sacking all our teachers, fireman, and police officers or putting the ignorant, fear-mongering hack that is Sarah Palin into office will not make your pitiful existence better--though it might actually bring about the ****hole descent into Armageddon that you seem to be so obsessed with/scared of. Then you might actually have something real to bitch about though.

Oh and by the way, your dumb-ass avatar sucks too. If you honestly can't see that this particular "scary nose picking, arrogant black man" is the most thoughtful, least self-interested, and most truly American president we've had in decades, you're simply blinded with our own bigotry.

Archer81
05-08-2010, 07:17 PM
Oh and by the way, your dumb-ass avatar sucks too. If you honestly can't see that this particular "scary nose picking, arrogant black man" is the most thoughtful, least self-interested, and most truly American president we've had in decades, you're simply blinded with our own bigotry.


This entire paragraph destroys any credibility you may have had.

A thoughtful president does not give the queen of England an ipod with his own speeches on it.

A president with no self-interest does not engage in petty sniping with people who criticize him, nor does that president spend more time in foreign countries then he does in states that did not go his way in 2008.

And a truly American president actually wears a flag pin or places his hand over his heart during the national anthem. You know, little indicators that shows he actually likes the country he is leading. How many states do we have, Mr President? 57?...thats right...truly American.


:Broncos:

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 07:20 PM
communism... socialism... facsism... nazism... all leftwing ideologies.

Facism and Nazism are right wing ideologies, dumbass.

mhgaffney
05-08-2010, 07:21 PM
this is almost unbelievable, except that we all know that this sort of CONTROL over every aspect of our lives is what the nameless, faceless, progressive bureaucrats crave. they write and implement these regulations without any sort of oversight by the voters and taxpayers.

http://www.khou.com/news/Candy-Gets-Third-Grader-A-Weeks-Detention-93033319.html

...looking forward to the mental gymnastics all you smarmy liberals are going to go through to try and justify this as appropriate.

BTW, this is OT of course, but we are in off-season mode so have at it... :D


The US murdered hundreds of thousands-- by some estimates -- over a million Iraqis -- since 2003 -- and you worry about this trivia?

You must be an idiot.

And BTW, you are also abusing the word "progressive." It has nothing to do w bureaucracy. In fact, progressives are anti-bureaucracy.

Progressives gave us the 40 hour work week, the right to organize trade unions, social security, civil rights, women's suffrage, etc.

You take the word in vain out of ignorance of this long history of struggle for a better world.

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 07:22 PM
This thread was started by an Ayn Rand fan (Who is John Galt? opening line from Atlas Shrugged). Aside from being a putrid writer, Rand's philosophy is about as immoral as it comes, and it's funny to see religious nuts like Llama coming to the defense of such a morally repugnant philosophy.

houghtam
05-08-2010, 07:23 PM
liberals are the ones always telling everyone else how to live their lives.

Homosexuals can't have same sex marriage, can't burn the American flag, homosexuals can't adopt children, criminalization of marijuana, imposition of Christian values on a secular nation, creationism in public schools, prayer in public schools, Ten Commandments in public buildings, dozens of different types of abortion laws, Arizona immigration laws...

Need I go on?

Archer81
05-08-2010, 07:24 PM
Facism and Nazism are right wing ideologies, dumbass.


No, not really.

Both are variations of socialism with a more nationalistic approach. (Nazi = National Socialism, Fascism = Fasces, latin for group)

I would not apply socialism/communism or fascism/nazism to any standard political spectrum. If the political spectrum is a U, fascism and communism are closer to one another then to anything else.

:Broncos:

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 07:27 PM
No, not really.

Both are variations of socialism with a more nationalistic approach. (Nazi = National Socialism, Fascism = Fasces, latin for group)

I would not apply socialism/communism or fascism/nazism to any standard political spectrum. If the political spectrum is a U, fascism and communism are closer to one another then to anything else.

:Broncos:

Wrong. Facism is a corporate run government, which fits perfectly in with right wing ideology (I know you won't admit that, but it's a fact). Nazism specifically targeted liberals as part of their "cleansing" policy, so, yeah, they were clearly right wing.

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2010, 07:27 PM
This thread was started by an Ayn Rand fan (Who is John Galt? opening line from Atlas Shrugged). Aside from being a putrid writer, Rand's philosophy is about as immoral as it comes, and it's funny to see religious nuts like Llama coming to the defense of such a morally repugnant philosophy.

I havent read anything you have posted in a long, long time. However its weird to see that you are still obsessed.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about here, but I'm 100% confident that that wont keep you from continuing.

DarkHorse30
05-08-2010, 07:27 PM
neither Bush was a conservative. not by any stretch of the imagination.

maybe "smarmy liberal" is a bit much, but liberals are the ones always telling everyone else how to live their lives. for example, Bloomberg in NYC (a liberal) is working on passing an ordinance to prevent restaurants from adding salt to their food, because he considers salt bad for people. forget customer's choice. he wants the government to determine which behaviors are good and bad and to criminalize what he considers to be bad.

the government in DC is a monstrosity that our founding fathers would abhor. both political parties are responsible for the mess.

you might be surprised at how much anger we conservatives have toward both Bushes at this point. for a hundred different reasons too!

great post. Conservatives need to tirelessly speak their minds. It's the only way out of this mess.

Archer81
05-08-2010, 07:30 PM
Wrong. Facism is a corporate run government, which fits perfectly in with right wing ideology (I know you won't admit that, but it's a fact). Nazism specifically targeted liberals as part of their "cleansing" policy, so, yeah, they were clearly right wing.


 /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Show Spelled[fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3. ( initial capital letter ) a fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.


 /ˈkɒmyəˌnɪzəm/ Show Spelled[kom-yuh-niz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
2. ( often initial capital letter ) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
3. ( initial capital letter ) the principles and practices of the Communist party.
4. communalism.

You want to rephrase?

:Broncos:

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 07:31 PM
I havent read anything you have posted in a long, long time. However its weird to see that you are still obsessed.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about here, but I'm 100% confident that that wont keep you from continuing.

You have read what I've posted as recently as at least six days ago, given that you quoted me on 5/2/10: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2831339&postcount=91

Liar.

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 07:33 PM
 /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Show Spelled[fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3. ( initial capital letter ) a fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.


 /ˈkɒmyəˌnɪzəm/ Show Spelled[kom-yuh-niz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
2. ( often initial capital letter ) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
3. ( initial capital letter ) the principles and practices of the Communist party.
4. communalism.

You want to rephrase?

:Broncos:

Not at all:

Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives, values, and systems such as the political system and the economy.[5][6] Fascism was originally founded by national syndicalists in World War I who combined left-wing and right-wing political views, but gravitated to the political right in the early 1920s.[7][8] Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

OldschoolFreak
05-08-2010, 07:34 PM
this entire paragraph destroys any credibility you may have had.

A thoughtful president does not give the queen of england an ipod with his own speeches on it.---to point 1 see below.



A president with no self-interest does not engage in petty sniping with people who criticize him, nor does that president spend more time in foreign countries then he does in states that did not go his way in 2008.---to point 2 see below.

And a truly american president actually wears a flag pin or places his hand over his heart during the national anthem. You know, little indicators that shows he actually likes the country he is leading. How many states do we have, mr president? 57?...thats right...truly american.---to point 3 see below.

:broncos:

1-------right, way to cherry pick completely asinine, irrelevant, and completely trivial information.

2-------and continual, unprecedented aggressive and frequent attacks from the likes of "i make whatever i want up whenever it suites my claims rush limbaugh" should probably just go ignored? Really, so defending himself against extremely incendiary and often politically damaging (despite their lack of merit) baseless attacks is unwarranted and problematically self serving?

3------right again. Because a purely symbolic act of faux-patriotism, rather than, you know, putting the long term best interest of the country including all its citizens over multiple generations, is the mark of a true statesman, of course (and by the way he does sport your revered idol on occasion).

And please, you question his intellect and/or work ethic? How many states do we have, really? He works far harder, has been to far more states on a states visited per time in office metric, and has twice the intellectual capacity of the puppet that was the previous president.

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2010, 07:37 PM
You have read what I've posted as recently as at least six days ago, given that you quoted me on 5/2/10: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2831339&postcount=91

Liar.

Well, I guess you didn't leave much of an impression. Sorry.

Gort
05-08-2010, 07:37 PM
Facism and Nazism are right wing ideologies, dumbass.

you are ignorant. nazism is national socialism. fascism is a creation of the left, specifically mussolini. neither have anything to do with the right wing as we define/understand it in america.

the left lies and lies and lies and lies because they know that if they lie enough, they can get enough dumb people to believe them. learn about the progressive movement and its start more than a century ago.

goebbels. trotsky. mao. castro. lenin. stalin. hitler. mussolini. himmler. chomsky. obama. alinsky. zinn. woodrow wilson. all men of the left. all cut from the same cloth. all the same in the ways that matter.

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 07:40 PM
you are ignorant. nazism is national socialism. fascism is a creation of the left, specifically mussolini. neither have anything to do with the right wing as we define/understand it in america.

the left lies and lies and lies and lies because they know that if they lie enough, they can get enough dumb people to believe them. learn about the progressive movement and its start more than a century ago.

goebbels. trotsky. mao. castro. lenin. stalin. hitler. mussolini. himmler. chomsky. obama. alinsky. zinn. woodrow wilson. all men of the left. all cut from the same cloth. all the same in the ways that matter.

Liar, just like your corrupt Randian philosophy.

Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives, values, and systems such as the political system and the economy.[5][6] Fascism was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined left-wing and right-wing political views, but gravitated to the political right in the early 1920s. Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Nazism (Nationalsozialismus, National Socialism) was the ideology and practice of the Nazi Party and of Nazi Germany. It was a unique variety of fascism that involved biological racism and anti-Semitism. Nazism presented itself as politically syncretic, incorporating policies, tactics and philosophies from right- and left-wing ideologies; in practice, Nazism was a far right form of politics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

OldschoolFreak
05-08-2010, 07:40 PM
you are ignorant. nazism is national socialism. fascism is a creation of the left, specifically mussolini. neither have anything to do with the right wing as we define/understand it in america.

the left lies and lies and lies and lies because they know that if they lie enough, they can get enough dumb people to believe them. learn about the progressive movement and its start more than a century ago.

goebbels. trotsky. mao. castro. lenin. stalin. hitler. mussolini. himmler. chomsky. obama. alinsky. zinn. woodrow wilson. all men of the left. all cut from the same cloth. all the same in the ways that matter.

You really are equating Hitler/Mussolini with Chomsky/Obama? Hitler's fascism was socialistic? Yeah, he really had an eye equal distribution of wealth and supporting the causes of the undeserved--especially the Jews, right?

Get beyond the rhetoric for a second? Do you even understand what you're talking about?

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 07:41 PM
You really are equating Hitler/Mussolini with Chomsky/Obama? Hitler's fascism was socialistic? Yeah, he really had an eye equal distribution of wealth and supporting the causes of the undeserved--especially the Jews, right?

Get beyond the rhetoric for a second? Do you even understand what you're talking about?

He's an idiot. Anyone who takes Ayn Rand seriously is.

Gort
05-08-2010, 07:44 PM
The US murdered hundreds of thousands-- by some estimates -- over a million Iraqis -- since 2003 -- and you worry about this trivia?

You must be an idiot.

And BTW, you are also abusing the word "progressive." It has nothing to do w bureaucracy. In fact, progressives are anti-bureaucracy.

Progressives gave us the 40 hour work week, the right to organize trade unions, social security, civil rights, women's suffrage, etc.

You take the word in vain out of ignorance of this long history of struggle for a better world.

you think george bush blew up the WTC, so we already know you're a nutter.

progressives believe that an educated elite class should govern everybody and impose their rules and laws on the populace which is too dumb to live "acceptably" if left to their own devices. progressives believe in HUGE government.

i am really dumbstruck by how little the leftwinger understand the belief system of their leaders. if ever there were zombies who just voted as they are told without understanding or caring what they voted for, it is now with the post-60's democrat party. hell, we even had democrat congressmen proudly declare that they were too busy to read the 2000-page healthcare bill they voted for a couple of months ago. the democrat party is intellectually and morally bankrupt and the rest of us, who kept this country going by working and paying taxes and not spending every waking minute "community organizing" or rioting in the streets like democrats have been doing since the 60's, has awoken and are ready to take back this country from those hell-bent on its destruction from within. we know you're a third column and we are starting to put together the pieces on all of the millions of little front groups working toward the enslavement of our population under your totalitarian leftwing utopia.

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 07:46 PM
you think george bush blew up the WTC, so we already know you're a nutter.

progressives believe that an educated elite class should govern everybody and impose their rules and laws on the populace which is too dumb to live "acceptably" if left to their own devices. progressives believe in HUGE government.

i am really dumbstruck by how little the leftwinger understand the belief system of their leaders. if ever there were zombies who just voted as they are told without understanding or caring what they voted for, it is now with the post-60's democrat party. hell, we even had democrat congressmen proudly declare that they were too busy to read the 2000-page healthcare bill they voted for a couple of months ago. the democrat party is intellectually and morally bankrupt and the rest of us, who kept this country going by working and paying taxes and not spending every waking minute "community organizing" or rioting in the streets like democrats have been doing since the 60's, has awoken and are ready to take back this country from those hell-bent on its destruction from within. we know you're a third column and we are starting to put together the pieces on all of the millions of little front groups working toward the enslavement of our population under your totalitarian leftwing utopia.

You are a stone cold idiot. Prove the bolded above.

Archer81
05-08-2010, 07:46 PM
1-------right way to cherry pick completely asinine, irrelevant, and completely trivial information.

2-------and continual, unprecedented aggressive and frequent attacks from the likes of "i make whatever i want up whenever it suites my claims rush limbaugh" should probably just go ignored? Really, so defending himself against extremely incendiary and often politically damaging (despite their lack of merit) baseless attacks is unwarranted and problematically self serving?

3------right again. Because a purely symbolic act of faux-patriotism, rather than, you know, putting the long term best interest of the country including all its citizens over multiple generations, is the mark of a true statesman, of course (and by the way he does sport your revered idol on occasion).

And please, you question his intellect and/or work ethic? How many states do we have, really? He works far harder, has been to far more states on a states visited per time in office metric, and has twice the intellectual capacity of the puppet that was the previous president.


Lame defense, junior. But typical of the state of the modern left.


:Broncos:

Gort
05-08-2010, 07:47 PM
This thread was started by an Ayn Rand fan (Who is John Galt? opening line from Atlas Shrugged). Aside from being a putrid writer, Rand's philosophy is about as immoral as it comes, and it's funny to see religious nuts like Llama coming to the defense of such a morally repugnant philosophy.

so you know me well enough to say that i'm a Randian? hardly. it just happens to be an amazingly prescient book. but keep railing away with whatever your latest talking point is from Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart or that guy on MSBC with all the tingles running up and down his leg.

i'm amused by it all. :rofl:

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 07:49 PM
Lame defense, junior. But typical of the state of the modern left.


:Broncos:

Lame rebuttal. Meaning, you offered nothing but ad hominem as a response. Typical of the modern right.

Gort
05-08-2010, 07:49 PM
Wrong. Facism is a corporate run government, which fits perfectly in with right wing ideology (I know you won't admit that, but it's a fact). Nazism specifically targeted liberals as part of their "cleansing" policy, so, yeah, they were clearly right wing.

wow. you're a college kid, right? probably a sophomore studying sociology or some such nonsense. because you don't know **** about what you're talking about. read a bit about Germany and Italy from the 1930's. that's where nazism and fascism began. nothing rightwing about either philosophy.

Archer81
05-08-2010, 07:50 PM
Not at all:

Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives, values, and systems such as the political system and the economy.[5][6] Fascism was originally founded by national syndicalists in World War I who combined left-wing and right-wing political views, but gravitated to the political right in the early 1920s.[7][8] Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism


Wikipedia...really? That is your go to site for definitions?


Fascism and Communism are socialist ideologies. But as someone who obviously leans left, it must be easier for you to think that while you support one murderous ideology, at least the other side has one, too.

Sad, really.

:Broncos:

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 07:52 PM
so you know me well enough to say that i'm a Randian? hardly. it just happens to be an amazingly prescient book. but keep railing away with whatever your latest talking point is from Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart or that guy on MSBC with all the tingles running up and down his leg.

i'm amused by it all. :rofl:

That statement alone is enough to write you off as a nutjob. Rand's philosophy is as self-centered as they come (hell, she wrote a nonfiction book called The Virtue of Selfishness). Atlas Shrugged is a literary disgrace. 50 page soliquys? She argues that any action that doesn't benefit the self is immoral. Morally bankrupt.

Archer81
05-08-2010, 07:55 PM
Lame rebuttal. Meaning, you offered nothing but ad hominem as a response. Typical of the modern right.


For what gain?

He said Obama was thoughtful, I gave an example of how he isnt. He said obama was selfless, I gave an example of how he isnt. He said Obama was "truly American" and I gave two examples of how he is not.

So now things the president has actually done are now ad hominem?


:Broncos:

Gort
05-08-2010, 07:59 PM
Not at all:

Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives, values, and systems such as the political system and the economy.[5][6] Fascism was originally founded by national syndicalists in World War I who combined left-wing and right-wing political views, but gravitated to the political right in the early 1920s.[7][8] Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

wikipedia is funded by George Soros' Open Society Institute. its' not a reliably impartial or honest source when it comes to political topics.

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 07:59 PM
Wikipedia...really? That is your go to site for definitions?


Fascism and Communism are socialist ideologies. But as someone who obviously leans left, it must be easier for you to think that while you support one murderous ideology, at least the other side has one, too.

Sad, really.

:Broncos:

Is dictionary.com good enough?:

Cultural Dictionary
fascism [(fash-iz-uhm)]


A system of government that flourished in Europe from the 1920s to the end of World War II. Germany under Adolf Hitler, Italy under Mussolini, and Spain under Franco were all fascist states. As a rule, fascist governments are dominated by a dictator, who usually possesses a magnetic personality, wears a showy uniform, and rallies his followers by mass parades; appeals to strident nationalism; and promotes suspicion or hatred of both foreigners and “impure” people within his own nation, such as the Jews in Germany. Although both communism and fascism are forms of totalitarianism, fascism does not demand state ownership of the means of production, nor is fascism committed to the achievement of economic equality. In theory, communism opposes the identification of government with a single charismatic leader (the “cult of personality”), which is the cornerstone of fascism. Whereas communists are considered left-wing, fascists are usually described as right-wing.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Fascism

Gort
05-08-2010, 08:07 PM
He works far harder, has been to far more states on a states visited per time in office metric, and has twice the intellectual capacity of the puppet that was the previous president.

laughable.

in 8 years, George W Bush golfed a total of 24 times. and he got hammered in the leftwing media for every trip to the golf course.

as of April 18, 2010, Obama had already golfed 32 times. that's in his first 15 months in office. not a peep out of the leftwing media about it though. or about the $300 per pound Kobe beef he had imported for dinner at the white house in his 2ND WEEK IN OFFICE while at the same time telling the american people that they'd have to tighten their belts to get through this so-called worst ever recession.

he's a liar. a hypocrite. and an intellectual lightweight. he has no paper trail as a lawyer. he hardly wrote a damned thing. he can't speak without his teleprompter. his speeches are full of boilerplate and leftwing cliches and canards. but i suppose he's probably the brightest person in the democrat party. that's possible. but anyone with a higher than room temperature IQ sees him for who he is. a dull thinking man full of leftwing prejudices with speechwriters who provide him enough red meat to get his constituency foaming at the mouth.

Archer81
05-08-2010, 08:12 PM
What's sad is that a gay individual such as yourself follows a philosophy that does everything in its power to deny you rights. As far as definitions go, is dictionary.com good enough?:

Cultural Dictionary
fascism [(fash-iz-uhm)]


A system of government that flourished in Europe from the 1920s to the end of World War II. Germany under Adolf Hitler, Italy under Mussolini, and Spain under Franco were all fascist states. As a rule, fascist governments are dominated by a dictator, who usually possesses a magnetic personality, wears a showy uniform, and rallies his followers by mass parades; appeals to strident nationalism; and promotes suspicion or hatred of both foreigners and “impure” people within his own nation, such as the Jews in Germany. Although both communism and fascism are forms of totalitarianism, fascism does not demand state ownership of the means of production, nor is fascism committed to the achievement of economic equality. In theory, communism opposes the identification of government with a single charismatic leader (the “cult of personality”), which is the cornerstone of fascism. Whereas communists are considered left-wing, fascists are usually described as right-wing.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Fascism


You seem to be missing the overriding arc, here. Both fascism and communism completely control every aspect of a society from cradle to grave. I oppose any government that determines every single thing for me. A tyranny of the right is not any better than a tyranny of the left.

As I said several posts back, you cannot apply the standard political spectrum to either communism or fascism. They are so outside the norm because they both have more in common to one another than anything else, and both have murdered more people than any instutition or government before them.

I do not subscribe to identity politics. I will not vote for a democrat simply because he/she says he/she supports gay rights and be blind to the fact he/she is pro-abortion, or pro-amnesty, or pro-welfare state or anti-free market. I am conservative because I do not need a federal behemoth dictating that everyone "be ok" with gays. That creates more animosity when people are forced to do something. The left feels you can legislate social norms and everyone is hunky-dory with it. Abortion and civil rights proves the opposite. If I want gay marriage, I have to work in my own community and my own state to prove that I have the same right as everyone else to be equally miserable in matrimony. I cant make people accept something they are not a mind to accept.

:Broncos:

Gort
05-08-2010, 08:14 PM
You really are equating Hitler/Mussolini with Chomsky/Obama? Hitler's fascism was socialistic? Yeah, he really had an eye equal distribution of wealth and supporting the causes of the undeserved--especially the Jews, right?

Get beyond the rhetoric for a second? Do you even understand what you're talking about?

hell yeah i am. Chomsky and Obama are notorious anti-semites. same as hitler and himmler. obama was raised by his grandparents. at least one of which was a member of the american communist party. he's a red diaper baby. his credentials as a leftwinger are beyond dispute.

read a little. inform yourself. nazi is short for nationale sozialisten. they were socialists.

again, i'm amazed at how little the democrat voter really understands about the motivations and beliefs of those they vote for.

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 08:16 PM
laughable.

in 8 years, George W Bush golfed a total of 24 times. and he got hammered in the leftwing media for every trip to the golf course.

as of April 18, 2010, Obama had already golfed 32 times. that's in his first 15 months in office. not a peep out of the leftwing media about it though. or about the $300 per pound Kobe beef he had imported for dinner at the white house in his 2ND WEEK IN OFFICE while at the same time telling the american people that they'd have to tighten their belts to get through this so-called worst ever recession.

he's a liar. a hypocrite. and an intellectual lightweight. he has no paper trail as a lawyer. he hardly wrote a damned thing. he can't speak without his teleprompter. his speeches are full of boilerplate and leftwing cliches and canards. but i suppose he's probably the brightest person in the democrat party. that's possible. but anyone with a higher than room temperature IQ sees him for who he is. a dull thinking man full of leftwing prejudices with speechwriters who provide him enough red meat to get his constituency foaming at the mouth.

You are seriously using golf as your only standard?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-4728085-503544.html

George W. Bush is today making his final visit to Camp David as president.

He will likely miss the place: According to CBS News White House Correspondent Mark Knoller, today's trip marks Mr. Bush's 149th visit to the presidential retreat. The planned three-day stay, during which the president is being joined by family and former and current aides, will bring his total time spent at Camp David to all or part of 487 days.

Yes, that's 487 days. And Camp David is not even where the president has spent the most time when not at the White House: Knoller reports that Mr. Bush has made 77 visits to his ranch in Crawford during his presidency, and spent all or part of 490 days there.

Gort
05-08-2010, 08:17 PM
That statement alone is enough to write you off as a nutjob. Rand's philosophy is as self-centered as they come (hell, she wrote a nonfiction book called The Virtue of Selfishness). Atlas Shrugged is a literary disgrace. 50 page soliquys? She argues that any action that doesn't benefit the self is immoral. Morally bankrupt.

i agree the soliquoys got a bit old. you could skip ahead 50 pages and not miss anything. but she was dead on about the moochers.

you do know Rand was an atheist, right? she didn't believe in morality.

and selfishness is what makes the world go round. nobody works hard at anything if they don't have a personal benefit from it.

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 08:17 PM
Chomsky and Obama are notorious anti-semites.

Oh, really? Proof?

Gort
05-08-2010, 08:19 PM
Is dictionary.com good enough?:

Cultural Dictionary
fascism [(fash-iz-uhm)]


A system of government that flourished in Europe from the 1920s to the end of World War II. Germany under Adolf Hitler, Italy under Mussolini, and Spain under Franco were all fascist states. As a rule, fascist governments are dominated by a dictator, who usually possesses a magnetic personality, wears a showy uniform, and rallies his followers by mass parades; appeals to strident nationalism; and promotes suspicion or hatred of both foreigners and “impure” people within his own nation, such as the Jews in Germany. Although both communism and fascism are forms of totalitarianism, fascism does not demand state ownership of the means of production, nor is fascism committed to the achievement of economic equality. In theory, communism opposes the identification of government with a single charismatic leader (the “cult of personality”), which is the cornerstone of fascism. Whereas communists are considered left-wing, fascists are usually described as right-wing.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Fascism

described by who exactly? i mean i can say that democrats are usually considered mentally ill. does that make it so? at least 30% of democrats are not mentally ill. that 30% is just evil.

see what i did there? i undermined your argument while insulting you. good stuff, huh? :D

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 08:19 PM
i agree the soliquoys got a bit old. you could skip ahead 50 pages and not miss anything. but she was dead on about the moochers.

you do know Rand was an atheist, right? she didn't believe in morality.

and selfishness is what makes the world go round. nobody works hard at anything if they don't have a personal benefit from it.

Uh, yeah. I'm an atheist, too. Yet, I believe in moral precepts. I just don't believe moral laws are handed down from some big daddy in the sky.

ghwk
05-08-2010, 08:19 PM
By their own admission the "pc" crowd now refers to themselves as "secular
progressives". Still trying to pimp the global warming scam, brainwashing
our kids & apologizing for America's greatness. They have yet been unable
to figure out why the TEA PARTIES are forming......

AWESOME 4th post. I just CAN'T WAIT for number 5!

Gort
05-08-2010, 08:22 PM
Oh, really? Proof?

Chomsky's political writings have always gotten him in trouble with Jewish groups. you must be aware of that by now.

and Obama has been more friendly to our enemies while in office than he has been to one of our best allies, Israel. he's been making threats about forcing Israel to give up land which is rightfully theirs and his administration also warned Israel not to defend itself against Iran, a country by the way which has repeatedly said publicly that it intends to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. but if you want some links, i can dig them up.

they both hate israel. it's pretty well established at this point.

Gort
05-08-2010, 08:25 PM
You are seriously using golf as your only standard?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-4728085-503544.html

George W. Bush is today making his final visit to Camp David as president.

He will likely miss the place: According to CBS News White House Correspondent Mark Knoller, today's trip marks Mr. Bush's 149th visit to the presidential retreat. The planned three-day stay, during which the president is being joined by family and former and current aides, will bring his total time spent at Camp David to all or part of 487 days.

Yes, that's 487 days. And Camp David is not even where the president has spent the most time when not at the White House: Knoller reports that Mr. Bush has made 77 visits to his ranch in Crawford during his presidency, and spent all or part of 490 days there.

you understand that camp david is not a summer camp. it's a short helicopter ride from DC. when a president goes to camp david, his staff goes with him. they work from there just like they do from the oval office. however, they don't work when on the golf course.

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 08:25 PM
Chomsky's political writings have always gotten him in trouble with Jewish groups. you must be aware of that by now.

and Obama has been more friendly to our enemies while in office than he has been to one of our best allies, Israel. he's been making threats about forcing Israel to give up land which is rightfully theirs and his administration also warned Israel not to defend itself against Iran, a country by the way which has repeatedly said publicly that it intends to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. but if you want some links, i can dig them up.

they both hate israel. it's pretty well established at this point.

Disagreeing with Zionism is not the same as being Anti-Semitic.

Gort
05-08-2010, 08:29 PM
Disagreeing with Zionism is not the same as being Anti-Semitic.

http://www.chomskywatch.blogspot.com/

to be fair, Chomsky is 100% irrelevant to me. i'm not jewish. i'm not a leftist. i'm not an america-hater. i know he carries alot of "gravitas" in some circles... mostly those which include a large number of impressionable colleges kids in Madison, Berkeley, Boulder, Ann Arbor, and Boston. i've read over the years a number of criticisms of Chomsky by jews who consider him to be anti-semitic and i think that's a very well established charge at this point. i'm not inclined to dig too deeply into it. it doesn't matter much to me. but that's one of many websites you can find on google that tackles the subject. if it matters to you, feel free to wade deeply into the writing there and tell me if they are persuasive or not. if not, i'll google again... :)

BroncoInferno
05-08-2010, 08:37 PM
http://www.chomskywatch.blogspot.com/

to be fair, Chomsky is 100% irrelevant to me. i'm not jewish. i'm not a leftist. i'm not an america-hater. i know he carries alot of "gravitas" in some circles... mostly those which include a large number of impressionable colleges kids in Madison, Berkeley, Boulder, Ann Arbor, and Boston. i've read over the years a number of criticisms of Chomsky by jews who consider him to be anti-semitic and i think that's a very well established charge at this point. i'm not inclined to dig too deeply into it. it doesn't matter much to me. but that's one of many websites you can find on google that tackles the subject. if it matters to you, feel free to wade deeply into the writing there and tell me if they are persuasive or not. if not, i'll google again... :)

In other words, you've never read Chomsky. So, your opinion, like your hero Ayn Rand's, is completely irrelevant.

footstepsfrom#27
05-08-2010, 08:59 PM
this is almost unbelievable, except that we all know that this sort of CONTROL over every aspect of our lives is what the nameless, faceless, progressive bureaucrats crave. they write and implement these regulations without any sort of oversight by the voters and taxpayers.

http://www.khou.com/news/Candy-Gets-Third-Grader-A-Weeks-Detention-93033319.html

...looking forward to the mental gymnastics all you smarmy liberals are going to go through to try and justify this as appropriate.
Speaking as a smarmy liberal, zero tolerance school disciplinary policies have nothing to do with liberal or conservative politics. It's about arrogance and control however...regardless of who is in charge.

In 1998 I served on a judicially mandated task force on underage alcohol use in the Arlington TX school district and researched this crap from the ground up. Doing so got me more and more disgusted to the point that I eventually used the information I gathered to lead an effort to drive the school superintendant at the time out of office over an issue related to this.

Originally zero tolerance was a concept developed for the interdiction of drug traffic on the high seas or court ordered mental health services and it is highly inappropriate for education, let alone with young children. Parents who think the schools should be raising their kids and have an irrational fear of school violence based on rare school shootings favor these policies...mostly the people I've met who like these policies are hard core conservative types though.

Dozens of studies in both the US and Canada prove that ZT is ineffective as a deterant, fails to teach kids responsibility, severely limits local school administrator's discretionary options, produces anger in both students and parents and destroys trust in the school system. In some cases (including the one I aluded to here) ZT is also used to funnel kids into a complex web of federal funding initiatives triggered by running afoul of the ZT policies and subsequent student "evaluations" are often required in this process that sends federal dollars to state and local education coffers.

For example, if a student is disciplined under a ZT policy that requires they see a SAP (Student Assistance Program) counselor as a condition for re-admission to school, kids are often checked out for personal (read psychiatric here) problems that may require some form of mental health intervention. In the '90's this approach landed dozens of executives from private psych hospitals in jail...because so called "head hunters" (school guideance counselors, nurses, social workers, etc...) were financially rewarded with kickbacks for referring these kids into expensive psychiatric treatments...all because some social worker told parents their kid had a problem because he got school detention.

ZT is a blight on public education and whether you're liberal or conservative you need to educate yourself and get involved in your local schools to fight these stupid policies at the grassroots level.

Dukes
05-08-2010, 09:54 PM
Oh, really? Proof?

The proof is convienently locked up in a safe behind a million dollar lawfirm. Weird how he won't let anybody read anything from his past.

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2010, 10:22 PM
Uh, yeah. I'm an atheist, too. Yet, I believe in moral precepts. I just don't believe moral laws are handed down from some big daddy in the sky.

You just make them up to suit you.

OABB
05-08-2010, 10:22 PM
This is the gayest thread ever. People on the left and the right are the exact same and they don't even know it. Most are just spewing what their parents have told them. If you aren't in the middle, and you don't see thE Benefit of a socialist and capatalist hybrid you are a moron.

That's what we all really really want and that's what we almost have. Bush and Reagan and the modern day republicans as well as most of the pelosi type democrats are pretty much the same asshole and are getting in the way. We can have our cake and eat it too. There is plenty of money to go around as long as assholes don't try to hoard it all.

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2010, 10:25 PM
This is the gayest thread ever. People on the left and the right are the exact same and they don't even know it. Most are just spewing what their parents have told them. If you aren't in the middle, and you don't see thE Benefit of a socialist and capatalist hybrid you are a moron.

That's what we all really really want and that's what we almost have. Bush and Reagan and the modern day republicans as well as most of the pelosi type democrats are pretty much the same a-hole and are getting in the way. We can have our cake and eat it too. There is plenty of money to go around as long as a-holes don't try to hoard it all.

Have you seen the debt lately?

OABB
05-08-2010, 10:31 PM
Have you seen the debt lately?

Yes. This country has been in debt before. In fact debt is how our currency works. We are all in debt. Why do you think the economy crashed? Because people bought and sold debt. All the talk about debt now is hilarious to me. No one seemed to care under Reagan or bush what kind of debt we were in.

We will be fine. We just need to keep jobs here in america. That may mean you have to pay 9 cents more for undies at a local store than a Chinese pair sewn by a child at wallmart, but sacrifices are what will get us out of This mess. That and the richest few giving back to the communtities that made them rich.

This is the greatest country in the world. And it will always be. As long as neocons and liberals are shippd away.

Xenos
05-08-2010, 10:44 PM
This entire paragraph destroys any credibility you may have had.

A thoughtful president does not give the queen of England an ipod with his own speeches on it.

A president with no self-interest does not engage in petty sniping with people who criticize him, nor does that president spend more time in foreign countries then he does in states that did not go his way in 2008.

And a truly American president actually wears a flag pin or places his hand over his heart during the national anthem. You know, little indicators that shows he actually likes the country he is leading. How many states do we have, Mr President? 57?...thats right...truly American.


:Broncos:
I'm sorry but that last paragraph just made you seem like one of those idiots who think the President is actually born in Kenya or believe that he's not an American citizen.

And what you feel is petty sniping, I feel is him addressing the criticisms of those who may not know better.

DBruleU
05-08-2010, 10:49 PM
I'm sorry but that last paragraph just made you seem like one of those idiots who think the President is actually born in Kenya or believe that he's not an American citizen.

And what you feel is petty sniping, I feel is him addressing the criticisms of those who may not know better.

He probably was born in Africa. Those who have nothing to hide don't hide anything. Or spend millions to keep something so inconsequential hidden.

OABB
05-08-2010, 10:50 PM
He probably was born in Africa. Those who have nothing to hide don't hide anything. Or spend millions to keep something so inconsequential hidden.

Please see my avatar.

Xenos
05-08-2010, 10:53 PM
He probably was born in Africa. Those who have nothing to hide don't hide anything. Or spend millions to keep something so inconsequential hidden.
Besides the fact that the birth certificate has been posted many times before. And the fact that no one can actually prove anything but the fact that he is an American born citizen. But then again, I suppose it's all a conspiracy to vote for the first black president.

DBruleU
05-08-2010, 11:03 PM
Besides the fact that the birth certificate has been posted many times before. And the fact that no one can actually prove anything but the fact that he is an American born citizen. But then again, I suppose it's all a conspiracy to vote for the first black president.

Uh, no. The birth certificate has not been posted. But ok.

I have nothing against a black president.

DBruleU
05-08-2010, 11:03 PM
Please see my avatar.

Please see mine. Go USA!

OABB
05-08-2010, 11:07 PM
Please see mine. Go USA!

I half expect you to tell me plants crave electrolytes.

Dukes
05-08-2010, 11:14 PM
I half expect you to tell me plants crave electrolytes.

Weird, I agree with DBruleU, yet I agree with you that we're on our way to Idiocracy.

OABB
05-08-2010, 11:19 PM
Weird, I agree with DBruleU, yet I agree with you that we're on our way to Idiocracy.

We are already there. The debates today, especially in regards to Obama are some of stupidest things I have ever heard. And it's not just here. People are literally just repeating what they are told. If anyone sopped and did the research, we would all probably agree point for point.

But people listen to fox news or their hippie parents and it's electrolytes are what plants crave. It's so sad.

DBruleU
05-08-2010, 11:46 PM
Weird, I agree with DBruleU, yet I agree with you that we're on our way to Idiocracy.

Weird, I agree with you for agreeing with me, and with orangeandblue.

I'm going to bed.

Dukes
05-09-2010, 12:04 AM
Weird, I agree with you for agreeing with me, and with orangeandblue.

I'm going to bed.

I think we're making progress. Ok well maybe not Ha!

Ugly Duck
05-09-2010, 07:45 AM
you might be surprised at how much anger we conservatives have toward both Bushes at this point.No surprise. Everyone has seen the disaster that the Right served up when they were in charge. Invaded the wrong country after 9/11, grossly incompetent & deregulated corporations till we were on the brink of another Great Depression. So now the Right wants to distance themselves from the mess they made by saying, "That wasn't really us who did that! It was, uhh - somebody else! Give us yet another chance... we'll be different this time... really!"

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-09-2010, 08:03 AM
Sure glad this is on the main forum, where it really belongs. Hate to fill up the war and politics forum with this kind of bull****.

DarkHorse30
05-09-2010, 08:12 AM
No surprise. Everyone has seen the disaster that the Right served up when they were in charge. Invaded the wrong country after 9/11, grossly incompetent & deregulated corporations till we were on the brink of another Great Depression. So now the Right wants to distance themselves from the mess they made by saying, "That wasn't really us who did that! It was, uhh - somebody else! Give us yet another chance... we'll be different this time... really!"

Congress makes the laws, and Pelosi's been in charge since 2006. If economic outlook is cyclical, she is responsible.

Currently, congressional dem-lackies are completely ignoring their constituents and ramming very expensive, job-killing bills through congress, while MILLIONS are out of work. Unemployment is a problem that they want to solve by creating more GOVERNMENT work and then, uh, taxing the rich to pay for it. Ever get a job from a poor person? Until fiscal conservatives take things over, the left will drive this country into the crapper......while claiming they "tried" to fix it. That doesn't fly with me.

I don't care about intentions- I want taxes cut, (which always creates more revenue- look it up) health care left alone, soc. security fixed and the illegal immigration stopped.

FYI, the bush that you hate the most tried to fix soc. security and the border when he was re-elected (how did that happen? not enough fake acorn voters apparently) in '04. The dems wouldn't have it. Congress refused to fix a problem because it was too risky to piss off the latino vote. Give me a break. Term limits anyone?

RhymesayersDU
05-09-2010, 09:34 AM
Sure glad this is on the main forum, where it really belongs. Hate to fill up the war and politics forum with this kind of bull****.

I'm glad that this thread displeases you so much that you decided to reply to it and send it right to the top of the forum for more people to read.

Awesome stuff, right there. This board never ceases to amaze me.

Archer81
05-09-2010, 10:02 AM
I'm sorry but that last paragraph just made you seem like one of those idiots who think the President is actually born in Kenya or believe that he's not an American citizen.

And what you feel is petty sniping, I feel is him addressing the criticisms of those who may not know better.


Obama was born in Hawaii. Makes him American.

My last paragraph is a valid complaint about my president. The man is so patriotic he cant wear a flag pin or have a hand over his heart during the national anthem? WTF not?

"May not know better"...that entire phrase is so ridiculously condescending...but it fits the temperment of good ole Barry.

:Broncos:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-09-2010, 01:13 PM
I'm glad that this thread displeases you so much that you decided to reply to it and send it right to the top of the forum for more people to read.

Awesome stuff, right there. This board never ceases to amaze me.

It was at the top when I responded, but thanks for playing along.

epicSocialism4tw
05-09-2010, 01:49 PM
Yes. This country has been in debt before. In fact debt is how our currency works. We are all in debt. Why do you think the economy crashed? Because people bought and sold debt. All the talk about debt now is hilarious to me. No one seemed to care under Reagan or bush what kind of debt we were in.

That's not true. The debt is always an issue for fiscal conservatives. It doesnt matter who is president. Bush got raked over the coals for adding to the debt, and rightly so.

We will be fine. We just need to keep jobs here in america. That may mean you have to pay 9 cents more for undies at a local store than a Chinese pair sewn by a child at wallmart, but sacrifices are what will get us out of This mess. That and the richest few giving back to the communtities that made them rich.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by that?

This is the greatest country in the world. And it will always be. As long as neocons and liberals are shippd away.

I dont disagree with that in a gutteral sense.

Xenos
05-09-2010, 02:11 PM
Obama was born in Hawaii. Makes him American.

My last paragraph is a valid complaint about my president. The man is so patriotic he cant wear a flag pin or have a hand over his heart during the national anthem? WTF not?

"May not know better"...that entire phrase is so ridiculously condescending...but it fits the temperment of good ole Barry.

:Broncos:
Obviously, someone's patriotism should be judged by something as important as that.

I just find it hilarious that you're making an issue out of something like this with regards to your earlier rebuttal.

mhgaffney
05-09-2010, 05:20 PM
you think george bush blew up the WTC, so we already know you're a nutter.

progressives believe that an educated elite class should govern everybody and impose their rules and laws on the populace which is too dumb to live "acceptably" if left to their own devices. progressives believe in HUGE government.

i am really dumbstruck

Yeah -- you are dumb struck.

FYI, progressives are not liberals. They are radicals -- meaning: root. You solve issues by going to the root.

This proud tradition goes back to the pre-1800 campaign to end the slave trade.

It later included Emerson, Thoreau, and the brave people who opposed slavery in the US -- and created the underground RR. All of whom were progressives.

It's obvious you have zero understanding of history. I give you nought out of ten.

As for 9/11 -- it was an inside job all the way. No mistake.

Check out this good summary of the evidence:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25365.htm

And also check out this kick ass interview -- in which a legal expert, Dr. Francis Boyle, says the CIA is the main suspect for the 2001 anthrax attacks:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25373.htm

I am well that drive by shooters like you never crack a book -- nor do any research on your own -- but if you do take the time -- these links will force you to revisit everything you thought you knew about 9/11...

MHG

mhgaffney
05-09-2010, 05:42 PM
What's out of control is the war machine, i.e., the military industrial complex.

Pseudofool
05-09-2010, 05:57 PM
Nothing like taking one specific example and making a broad generalization about those who who may or may not have responsible for said specific example. That's the kind of stupidity you unlearn freshman year of college.

Archer81
05-09-2010, 05:58 PM
Obviously, someone's patriotism should be judged by something as important as that.

I just find it hilarious that you're making an issue out of something like this with regards to your earlier rebuttal.


I find it hilarious Obama is labled patriotic. I dont recall a President saying its "unfortunate" the US is a world power.

Statement rings of pride, doesnt it.

Quick, make excuses for the O.

:Broncos:

Pseudofool
05-09-2010, 06:04 PM
I find it hilarious Obama is labled patriotic. I dont recall a President saying its "unfortunate" the US is a world power.

Statement rings of pride, doesnt it.

Quick, make excuses for the O.

:Broncos:Why does patriotism = bravado? Is there nothing said for humility? Need we as patriots trumpet our best qualities? Is it not American to carry a big stick and speak quietly? Pfft. Patriotism is championing our values not our power. Grow up.

Archer81
05-09-2010, 06:07 PM
Why does patriotism = bravado? Is there nothing said for humility? Need we as patriots trumpet our best qualities? Is it not American to carry a big stick and speak quietly? Pfft. Patriotism is championing our values not our power. Grow up.


I am trying to figure out how its patriotic to find your country at the top an unfortunate thing?

Do you believe other nations will respect our values if we have nothing to back it up? It is American to speak softly and carry a big stick...did you miss that part?

Dont tell me to grow up til you know what the **** you are talking about.

:Broncos:

Pseudofool
05-09-2010, 06:17 PM
I am trying to figure out how its patriotic to find your country at the top an unfortunate thing? Show me the specific quote and let's tease this out. It's probably more complicated and contextual than you're framing it, I imagine. Because, as you say, it makes no sense to for a US President to undercut American influence; so I'm thinking he probably didn't mean what you think he means.

randomtask
05-09-2010, 06:20 PM
Yeah -- you are dumb struck.

FYI, progressives are not liberals. They are radicals -- meaning: root. You solve issues by going to the root.

This proud tradition goes back to the pre-1800 campaign to end the slave trade.

It later included Emerson, Thoreau, and the brave people who opposed slavery in the US -- and created the underground RR. All of whom were progressives.

It's obvious you have zero understanding of history. I give you nought out of ten.

As for 9/11 -- it was an inside job all the way. No mistake.

Check out this good summary of the evidence:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25365.htm

And also check out this kick ass interview -- in which a legal expert, Dr. Francis Boyle, says the CIA is the main suspect for the 2001 anthrax attacks:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25373.htm

I am well that drive by shooters like you never crack a book -- nor do any research on your own -- but if you do take the time -- these links will force you to revisit everything you thought you knew about 9/11...

MHG

I don't know about this, buddy. A good fellow named Tom seemed to do a pretty good job of explaining how it couldn't be an inside job in this thread:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=89354

You should check it out, refresh your memory.

mhgaffney
05-09-2010, 06:37 PM
Tom a "good fellow"?

You need a reality check.

FYI, Tom (the "real expert" from RANDI) ran away from the evidence for extremely high temperatures at the WTC on 9/11. I posted this evidence and the clowns on the OM whiffed at it. So did Tom.

The fires in the WTC were ordinary building fires. They cannot explain the fact that 6% of the dust from the WTC was made up of tiny spherules of iron. (Iron is the primary ingredient of structural steel.) This means that something burned hot enough on 9/11 to melt steel. Which requires temperatures of 2700 F -- far far above what you get with ordinary building fires (maximum 1800 F).

Something also burned hot enough to boil lead at 3180 F. Again, this is far far above the maximum temperatures you can get with building fires.

Something also burned hot enough to melt molybdenum (melts at 4753 F). Again -- this is way way beyond what you can get with ordinary building fires.

This is physical evidence for use of explosives. But Tom (like many others) cannot wrap his brain around the concept. It's his psychological problem known as denial. I suspect you suffer from the same condition.

There is a cure. But it takes courage --- and an open mind.

randomtask
05-09-2010, 06:47 PM
Tom a "good fellow"?

You need a reality check.

FYI, Tom (the "real expert" from RANDI) ran away from the evidence for extremely high temperatures at the WTC on 9/11. I posted this evidence and the clowns on the OM whiffed at it. So did Tom.

The fires in the WTC were ordinary building fires. They cannot explain the fact that 6% of the dust from the WTC was made up of tiny spherules of iron. (Iron is the primary ingredient of structural steel.) This means that something burned hot enough on 9/11 to melt steel. Which requires temperatures of 2700 F -- far far above what you get with ordinary building fires (maximum 1800 F).

Something also burned hot enough to boil lead at 3180 F. Again, this is far far above the maximum temperatures you can get with building fires.

Something also burned hot enough to melt molybdenum (melts at 4753 F). Again -- this is way way beyond what you can get with ordinary building fires.

This is physical evidence for use of explosives. But Tom (like many others) cannot wrap his brain around the concept. It's his psychological problem and his nothing to do with the evidence. It's called denial. I suspect you also suffer from the condition.

There is a cure. But it takes courage --- and an open mind.

I'm not going to get dragged into an extended argument with you. It would accomplish nothing and simply be a waste of both our times'. So I'll leave you with this one question:

Ok, so you say there were explosives. Then where were the sounds from said explosives? Any explosion would be accompanied with a shock wave of sound easily audible from distances that video cameras were at.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosives

mhgaffney
05-09-2010, 07:02 PM
Many witnesses reported explosions -- including 118 NY firemen and first responders. Their testimonials were suppressed for several years -- but were finally made public after a successful lawsuit. They are posted at the NY Times web site. Here is an excellent analysis of the eyewitness accounts.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/articles/Article_5_118Witnesses_WorldTradeCenter.pdf

Several people captured audio tapes of the explosions. Here is one example. I've posted this before and again the brain dead folk around here just whiff at it. This guy, whose name is Rick Siegel, had a camcorder set up on a tripod at Hoboken across the Hudson from Manhattan and he captured the WTC fires and collapses. You can hear the huge blasts that ripped through the S tower before it fell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ808QZjHxQ

Here is more evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A9X_8flGeM

Xenos
05-09-2010, 07:13 PM
I find it hilarious Obama is labled patriotic. I dont recall a President saying its "unfortunate" the US is a world power.

Statement rings of pride, doesnt it.

Quick, make excuses for the O.

:Broncos:
Except that I actually understand the context in which he used that sentence. Just like I understand the context of the 57 states that you used as source of criticism.

TheReverend
05-09-2010, 07:22 PM
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/Hsei/rkzuci.gif

Xenos
05-09-2010, 07:46 PM
The fact that the OP started this thread to complain about big government when the article is about a school's interpretation of a Texas state law is another thing that I find hilarious.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-09-2010, 09:13 PM
I find it hilarious Obama is labled patriotic. I dont recall a President saying its "unfortunate" the US is a world power.

Statement rings of pride, doesnt it.

Quick, make excuses for the O.

:Broncos:

You must hate context.

ZONA
05-09-2010, 09:53 PM
this is almost unbelievable, except that we all know that this sort of CONTROL over every aspect of our lives is what the nameless, faceless, progressive bureaucrats crave. they write and implement these regulations without any sort of oversight by the voters and taxpayers.

http://www.khou.com/news/Candy-Gets-Third-Grader-A-Weeks-Detention-93033319.html

...looking forward to the mental gymnastics all you smarmy liberals are going to go through to try and justify this as appropriate.

BTW, this is OT of course, but we are in off-season mode so have at it... :D

News flash - life isn't fair. Get over it. No worries mate, one day you will be dead and won't have to deal with it any more.

Archer81
05-09-2010, 11:56 PM
Show me the specific quote and let's tease this out. It's probably more complicated and contextual than you're framing it, I imagine. Because, as you say, it makes no sense to for a US President to undercut American influence; so I'm thinking he probably didn't mean what you think he means.


i want to apologize for snapping at the end of the post. Didnt mean it, but I dont have an excuse for it.

Sorry man.

As for Obama's patriotism...I dont believe Obama hates the US. I believe the man is a product of his upbringing. He seems to view the US as the problem, and reducing our economic or military power will somehow equalize the rest of the world and make them hate us a little less. I dont see how weakening yourself when the country's rivals are not doing the same is a valid policy to follow. Turning his back on long time allies, running around the globe apologizing for the US, bowing and coddling dictators and pushing for unilateral nuclear disarmament in a world that seems to be more dangerous. He does all of this and I am supposed to believe the man is patriotic? A flag pin or a hand over the heart during the national anthem are small things, but its something to outweigh his history of being less than proud of his country; which is increasingly becoming more obvious through his actions.

Obama is supposedly a brilliant man, "smartest president we have ever had" but cannot figure out the small things. The small things matter, regardless of how childish or nationalistic they seem. Flags up everywhere, pins, tshirts, hats, bumperstickers, tattoos...small reminders of the US. Regardless of the political persuasion of whoever is President, Americans expect that man or woman to fit the traditional notion of the person we elect to that office. It upsets Americans when the President does not seem to respect two obvious symbols of American patriotism.

:Broncos:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-10-2010, 08:46 AM
i want to apologize for snapping at the end of the post. Didnt mean it, but I dont have an excuse for it.

Sorry man.

As for Obama's patriotism...I dont believe Obama hates the US. I believe the man is a product of his upbringing. He seems to view the US as the problem, and reducing our economic or military power will somehow equalize the rest of the world and make them hate us a little less. I dont see how weakening yourself when the country's rivals are not doing the same is a valid policy to follow. Turning his back on long time allies, running around the globe apologizing for the US, bowing and coddling dictators and pushing for unilateral nuclear disarmament in a world that seems to be more dangerous. He does all of this and I am supposed to believe the man is patriotic? A flag pin or a hand over the heart during the national anthem are small things, but its something to outweigh his history of being less than proud of his country; which is increasingly becoming more obvious through his actions.

Obama is supposedly a brilliant man, "smartest president we have ever had" but cannot figure out the small things. The small things matter, regardless of how childish or nationalistic they seem. Flags up everywhere, pins, tshirts, hats, bumperstickers, tattoos...small reminders of the US. Regardless of the political persuasion of whoever is President, Americans expect that man or woman to fit the traditional notion of the person we elect to that office. It upsets Americans when the President does not seem to respect two obvious symbols of American patriotism.

:Broncos:

It upsets CERTAIN Americans when a President doesn't fit the mold of a jingoistic cliche-spewing person. There's actually substance behind his words.

And again, you completely take his "problem" quote out of context. Not terribly surprising, but... come on man. If you're going to have an argument, you have to include the actual context of a comment you're using against your opponent.

Pseudofool
05-10-2010, 08:48 AM
i want to apologize for snapping at the end of the post. Didnt mean it, but I dont have an excuse for it.

Sorry man.

As for Obama's patriotism...I dont believe Obama hates the US. I believe the man is a product of his upbringing. He seems to view the US as the problem, and reducing our economic or military power will somehow equalize the rest of the world and make them hate us a little less. I dont see how weakening yourself when the country's rivals are not doing the same is a valid policy to follow. Turning his back on long time allies, running around the globe apologizing for the US, bowing and coddling dictators and pushing for unilateral nuclear disarmament in a world that seems to be more dangerous. He does all of this and I am supposed to believe the man is patriotic? A flag pin or a hand over the heart during the national anthem are small things, but its something to outweigh his history of being less than proud of his country; which is increasingly becoming more obvious through his actions.

Obama is supposedly a brilliant man, "smartest president we have ever had" but cannot figure out the small things. The small things matter, regardless of how childish or nationalistic they seem. Flags up everywhere, pins, tshirts, hats, bumperstickers, tattoos...small reminders of the US. Regardless of the political persuasion of whoever is President, Americans expect that man or woman to fit the traditional notion of the person we elect to that office. It upsets Americans when the President does not seem to respect two obvious symbols of American patriotism.

:Broncos:Thanks for the thoughtful post. And again, without specifics I can't really respond in kind, but I will say those who revere symbols over deeds, pull wool over all of our eyes. Symbols matter, I agree. But they pale in comparison to actual patriotic behavior and policy. Like you say, it is rather small to get frazzled over how lowly Obama bows. No one makes anything of it, save those who have something against Obama. It's been more than a year of Obama's presidency, and the greatest disaster visited on him, is one that liberals warned against (gulf spill), not conservatives (terrorism, strengthening our enemies). Food for thought. I'm done with the back and forth, thanks for being respectful in your last post.

Fedaykin
05-10-2010, 09:56 AM
this is almost unbelievable, except that we all know that this sort of CONTROL over every aspect of our lives is what the nameless, faceless, progressive bureaucrats crave. they write and implement these regulations without any sort of oversight by the voters and taxpayers.

http://www.khou.com/news/Candy-Gets-Third-Grader-A-Weeks-Detention-93033319.html

...looking forward to the mental gymnastics all you smarmy liberals are going to go through to try and justify this as appropriate.

BTW, this is OT of course, but we are in off-season mode so have at it... :D

Yeah, because TEXAS is just a breeding ground for progressive liberalism.

Newsflash bub, everyone of every political persuasion does stupid things.

Archer81
05-10-2010, 10:01 AM
It upsets CERTAIN Americans when a President doesn't fit the mold of a jingoistic cliche-spewing person. There's actually substance behind his words.

And again, you completely take his "problem" quote out of context. Not terribly surprising, but... come on man. If you're going to have an argument, you have to include the actual context of a comment you're using against your opponent.


It upsets most Americans. Not some.

And the context defense is lame. Obama said it. So spin away and tell everyone he really didnt mean 57 states, or how unfortunate a powerful america is.

Blah blah blah.

:Broncos:

Fedaykin
05-10-2010, 10:02 AM
Dept. of Education & Dept. of Agriculture write the federal rules. those are DC bureaucracies. Austin, TX is the capitol of Texas. very liberal. they write statewide rules. schoolteachers are members of the NEA and subsidiary unions. very liberal. these stupid rules are not something that tea party people created.

the username is not a namesake. the username is not JohnGalt. it's WhoIsJohnGalt. that has a very precise meaning. read the book.

Lol bull****. The Texas board of education sets the rules, and if you've been watching the news, that organization is brimming with young earth creationists and teabaggers who think Thomas Jefferson was too damn liberal to mention in the history text books.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-10-2010, 10:04 AM
It upsets most Americans. Not some.

And the context defense is lame. Obama said it. So spin away and tell everyone he really didnt mean 57 states, or how unfortunate a powerful america is.

Blah blah blah.

:Broncos:

Really? You've polled ALL Americans, enough to KNOW that MOST are upset by that? Come on, man. Get real.

The context defense is completely valid and relevant. Most Americans find taking arguments out of context to be retarded.

See? I can make brash statements with zero backup too.

Fedaykin
05-10-2010, 10:10 AM
It seems to me everyone would like to see something besides a Democrat or Republican in charge, why can't we get it done? Is there some kind of underground alliance that infiltrates every independent movement to derail it. People have been complaining about politics as usual for years, yet we still get the same old same ole. I guess we truly are cows.

The problem is our election system. One round plurality. It's a tough sell to bet on an independent when you might be handing the vote to the greater of the two evils instead of the lesser.

The only solution is an instant run off election. Of course, apparently at least your average Floridan can't understand how to mark the right bubble, so there's little hope they would understand an instant run off.

Pseudofool
05-10-2010, 10:16 AM
It upsets most Americans. Not some.
You might believe this is true, but without proof, you look silly. And a bit naive really. So give us some proof, or keep your generalizations and assumptions tucked in your back pocket. (Really if that was the case, we'd see a lot more flags on front porches, but I can count one on my street of twenty some houses. But I don't want to belabor the point.)

And the context defense is lame. Obama said it. It's not lame, it helps paint a clearer picture. Because what we are interested in is who Obama really is. What he MEANS, not what he says. Again, you need provide evidence, or even those that agree with you, will see you something as clown.

I don't mean to be insulting, but you're not going to convince anyone with vague generalization, an unwillingness to provide specific evidence, and shrugging away the need for context.

Fedaykin
05-10-2010, 10:19 AM
If the Nazi's were socialists, then clearly the chinese are democratic. Why else would they call themselves the People's Republic of China? Also, the Soviets were a republic too, why else would they call themselves the Soviet Socialist Republic?

Wait? You mean what people choose to call themselves doesn't actually reflect the reality of what they are? Whoa!

Fedaykin
05-10-2010, 10:36 AM
You seem to be missing the overriding arc, here. Both fascism and communism completely control every aspect of a society from cradle to grave. I oppose any government that determines every single thing for me. A tyranny of the right is not any better than a tyranny of the left.

As I said several posts back, you cannot apply the standard political spectrum to either communism or fascism. They are so outside the norm because they both have more in common to one another than anything else, and both have murdered more people than any instutition or government before them.

I do not subscribe to identity politics. I will not vote for a democrat simply because he/she says he/she supports gay rights and be blind to the fact he/she is pro-abortion, or pro-amnesty, or pro-welfare state or anti-free market. I am conservative because I do not need a federal behemoth dictating that everyone "be ok" with gays. That creates more animosity when people are forced to do something. The left feels you can legislate social norms and everyone is hunky-dory with it. Abortion and civil rights proves the opposite. If I want gay marriage, I have to work in my own community and my own state to prove that I have the same right as everyone else to be equally miserable in matrimony. I cant make people accept something they are not a mind to accept.

:Broncos:

Like many here, you're confusing your political concepts. You forget the political spectrum is two dimensional. There's liberal(left)-conservative(right) and authoritarian-libertarian. The only political party of note that falls on the libertarian side of that axis are the Green Party and a few fringe Ds like Dennis Kucinich.

The Nazi's were center-right authoritarian
The Soviets were left wing authoritarian

Most elected officials in US. (including Obama) are rightist and authoritarian.

Most people on this board who call themselves Libertarians are actually just extreme right wing (desire Laissez-faire economic policies) and neutral-authoritarian (much like Ron Paul). They confuse the axies of the political compass out of a desire to label themselves differently than others.

The primary problem with the Nazi's and the Soviets wasn't their economic policies (right-left) but their authoritarian nature.

Rohirrim
05-10-2010, 11:11 AM
It’s coming to america first
The cradle of the best and of the worst
It’s here they got the range
And the machinery for change
And it’s here they got the spiritual thirst
It’s here the family’s broken
And it’s here the lonely say
That the heart has got to open
In a fundamental way
Democracy is coming to the u.s.a.
(L.C.)

Cito Pelon
05-10-2010, 11:25 AM
80% of these right-wing and left-wing nuts depend on government to support them.

I support the center all the time. I attack the right and left wing nuts, they're the problem.

Those jackasses f things up for everybody else.

epicSocialism4tw
05-10-2010, 01:15 PM
Lol bull****. The Texas board of education sets the rules, and if you've been watching the news, that organization is brimming with young earth creationists and teabaggers who think Thomas Jefferson was too damn liberal to mention in the history text books.

Ah...so you're the expert on Texas education, eh?

What's your affiliation with it?