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View Full Version : "(Drafting Tebow) puts the Broncos behind five years"


BowlenBall
05-06-2010, 12:54 AM
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-05-05/southbound-and-down-broncos-among-five-teams-heading-for-fall

"The NFL is an equal-opportunity league, but teams that make a few wrong decisions can be kept out of the parity party for several seasons.

The Denver Broncos' bumpy downhill ride began in December 2008. At 8-5 and with a three-game lead over the San Diego Chargers atop the AFC West, Denver lost its final three games and missed the playoffs.

Josh McDaniels gets players he wants, but like Tim Tebow it's not a quick fix.The disappointing finish resulted in the surprise firing of coach/GM Mike Shanahan. And just more than a year later, the Broncos' three young offensive stars -- Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler -- have been booted out of town, too.

Shanahan delivered two Super Bowl rings with John Elway and turned the team into a consistent contender that made the playoffs 7-of-14 seasons, despite a revolving quarterbacks and running backs. Broncos brass made a bold move in replacing Shanahan with much younger Josh McDaniels.

An NFL pro personnel director said it's obvious that McDaniels has a clear vision for what type of players he's seeking, but it's no sort of quick-fix plan.

Now that McDaniels has won personality wars with Cutler and Marshall, the pressure to deliver has been ratcheted up. McDaniels' future is connected to whether he can develop first-round project Tim Tebow into a winning NFL quarterback.

Skepticism abounds.

"The story of the 2010 draft will continue to be Tebow," NFL Network analyst Brian Baldinger said. "It's a move that puts the Broncos behind five years."

Before the Tebow experiment is conducted, there are more pressing problems in Denver. Injuries continue to nag rookie wide receivers Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker. All-Pro left tackle Ryan Clady's recent knee injury also could be a major setback. The defense must adjust to losing Mike Nolan, one of the NFL's best 3-4 scheme coordinators.

The Chargers remain the class of the AFC West, and the Chiefs and Raiders both made offseason improvements.
Under Shanahan, the Broncos were used to dominating Oakland. Now, the Broncos are the more uncertain team."



Wow -- even if you don't like Tebow, even if you don't like the Broncos, this seems to be a fairly foolish statement. We took him at #25, for God's sake, not #1. He wasn't even our first draft choice! If Tebow ends up being a total washout, it's simply not that big of a setback. Also, we've got a servicable caretaker QB (Orton), a reclamation project QB (Quinn), and a long-term developmental prospect QB (Brandstater) on the roster, so it's not like we were without hope at the position before the draft.

Frankly, I've been surprised at the level of hate from some members of the national media (Prisco from CBS Sports, Baldinger and Iyer here, the chuckleheads at NFL Network, etc., etc.)

UberBroncoMan
05-06-2010, 12:59 AM
One ****ing 1st round pick doesn't put a team 5 years behind. What a stupid ****.

Hell, technically it's a 2nd round pick. It just became a 1st because we moved down with our main 1st.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-06-2010, 01:03 AM
JaMarcus Russell put the Raiders behind.

It's not so much about the pick as it is what the player is intended to be.

McDaniels is going all-in with Tebow as his franchise QB.

robbieopperude
05-06-2010, 01:06 AM
If this is the case half the teams in the NFL just set themselves back 5 years. I imagine the bust ration on 1st round picks is around 50/50.

Blueflame
05-06-2010, 01:08 AM
Tebow's a rookie. The player who has to deliver... at essentially a Pro Bowl level... this year to silence McDaniels' critics... is Alfonso Smith. That controversial trade last year will haunt McDaniels... and might even ultimately cost him his job... if Smith winds up being a bust.

BowlenBall
05-06-2010, 01:11 AM
JaMarcus Russell put the Raiders behind.

It's not so much about the pick as it is what the player is intended to be.

McDaniels is going all-in with Tebow as his franchise QB.

Nonsense.

Let's say (for example) the light finally comes on for Brady Quinn, and he ends up being a pro bowl quarterback. How, in this plausible scenario, is our franchise set back 5 years, regardless of what we intended Tebow to be?

Atwater His Ass
05-06-2010, 01:11 AM
JaMarcus Russell put the Raiders behind.

It's not so much about the pick as it is what the player is intended to be.

McDaniels is going all-in with Tebow as his franchise QB.

Couldn't be further from the truth with Quinn and Orton still on the roster.

Denver doesn't need Tebow to start this year. Big difference.

robbieopperude
05-06-2010, 01:11 AM
JaMarcus Russell put the Raiders behind.

It's not so much about the pick as it is what the player is intended to be.

McDaniels is going all-in with Tebow as his franchise QB.

McDaniels invested pick 25 and a 1/5 of the salary to Tebow. He won't hurt the franchise long term like JaMarcus did in Oakland.

Also, in two years if it doesn't work out Denver can easily go out and find another QB to trade for or give a contract to. It is much more difficult to do that when you are strapped behind a failing 1st round picks contract like Dorsey, Albert, Hali, Sims who you select higher and have to give them a 5 year window to play out that initial hefty contract.

Wow, I looked up Chiefs first round draft picks and it is no wonder that franchise has been horrible for close to a decade.

UberBroncoMan
05-06-2010, 01:13 AM
Tebow's a rookie. The player who has to deliver... at essentially a Pro Bowl level... this year to silence McDaniels' critics... is Alfonso Smith. That controversial trade last year will haunt McDaniels... and might even ultimately cost him his job... if Smith winds up being a bust.

Now THAT, was a stupid ****ing trade. We could have had Earl ****ING Thomas.

I hope I'm proven wrong though and Smith turns into Darrell Green 2.0.

Florida_Bronco
05-06-2010, 01:16 AM
Tebow's a rookie. The player who has to deliver... at essentially a Pro Bowl level... this year to silence McDaniels' critics... is Alfonso Smith. That controversial trade last year will haunt McDaniels... and might even ultimately cost him his job... if Smith winds up being a bust.

Right. Josh's job rides on the fate of a 2nd round cornerback. ::)

UberBroncoMan
05-06-2010, 01:17 AM
Right. Josh's job rides on the fate of a 2nd round cornerback. ::)

It wasn't a 2nd round CB based on what we gave up for him. He's ='s the 14th pick in this draft.

Smith is tied to Earl Thomas.

Florida_Bronco
05-06-2010, 01:29 AM
It wasn't a 2nd round CB based on what we gave up for him. He's ='s the 14th pick in this draft.

Smith is tied to Earl Thomas.

Yeah I'm aware of the fact that we made that trade, but regardless the kid was a 2nd rounder and will be judged accordingly by those who matter. NFL front office types aren't going to look at it in the convulted "well look who ended up going at that pick!" way that most fans do.

robbieopperude
05-06-2010, 01:32 AM
I would suggest that Josh's job will be looked at more on how he does in the offseason again next year and how this team improves from this year to next. I think this will be an in between year where he teaches "his" players the system and then next year it will be time to roll. Hopefully all the aging free agents we have signed will still be able to play because that is really what is going to help/hurt McDaniels.

The only way he gets fired after this season is if the Broncos looked completely lost and we go something like 4-12. The season after that I suspect he will have to either make the playoffs or have great support from his locker room to keep his job.

Really, I think he is more tied to all the vets who are going to have to play well in two years than Tebow.

Blueflame
05-06-2010, 01:33 AM
Right. Josh's job rides on the fate of a 2nd round cornerback. ::)

He's going to be haunted (second-guessed, criticized, whatever) by that (IMO, stupid) trade of a future 1st for a 2nd round pick.... if the player he reached for winds up being a bust. This year's draft featured far better prospects than Alfonso Smith.

robbieopperude
05-06-2010, 01:34 AM
Note: Alphonso Smith is going to look a lot better this year than last. DB's don't normally come into this league and play well there first year. I still don't like the trade but I think he will be an average DB at worst.

Probably McDaniels worst move as coach so far in terms of trade value. Right now Smth is looking like he should have went in the third to fifth round.

Blueflame
05-06-2010, 01:35 AM
Now THAT, was a stupid ****ing trade. We could have had Earl ****ING Thomas.

I hope I'm proven wrong though and Smith turns into Darrell Green 2.0.

McDaniels will be criticized... and justly so... if Smith remains buried on the bench by the likes of the geriatric Ty Law.

baja
05-06-2010, 01:55 AM
McDaniels will be criticized... and justly so... if Smith remains buried on the bench by the likes of the geriatric Ty Law.

I wonder if you were so critical of some of the head scratchers Shanny drafted over the years.

Shanny did far worse than Al Smith more than once.

Doggcow
05-06-2010, 01:56 AM
He's going to be haunted (second-guessed, criticized, whatever) by that (IMO, stupid) trade of a future 1st for a 2nd round pick.... if the player he reached for winds up being a bust. This year's draft featured far better prospects than Alfonso Smith.

McDanials never drafted anyone named Alfonso Smith.

Blueflame
05-06-2010, 02:04 AM
I wonder if you were so critical of some of the head scratchers Shanny drafted over the years.

Shanny did far worse than Al Smith more than once.

Does it matter what I thought of every decision Shanahan made? I disapproved of many of them, fwiw (and can cite more than just a few instances). It doesn't change the fact that McDaniels' draft day '09 decision to trade this year's first round draft pick (which ended up being #14 overall) to move up in a weak draft and pick Alfonso Smith was risky and controversial... far more controversial than his reach this year for Tebow at #25. "I" believe we just might have been able to find a better player than the seemingly-mediocre Alfonso Smith... at #14 this year.

Blueflame
05-06-2010, 02:06 AM
McDanials never drafted anyone named Alfonso Smith.

You're right. McDanials didn't.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-06-2010, 02:29 AM
You guys are nuts if you think Orton or Quinn are in the long-term picture at this point.

In two seasons (maybe one) Tim Tebow will take the first snap of the season as your starter. And then either your franchise will be rejuvenated or you're going to spend a couple years in hell before McDaniels is gone.

eddie mac
05-06-2010, 02:52 AM
People actually read this vomit???

robbieopperude
05-06-2010, 04:04 AM
You guys are nuts if you think Orton or Quinn are in the long-term picture at this point.

In two seasons (maybe one) Tim Tebow will take the first snap of the season as your starter. And then either your franchise will be rejuvenated or you're going to spend a couple years in hell before McDaniels is gone.

Two years from now Tim Tebow will be better than whatever product KC runs out on the field. Whether that is Luck/Locker who they draft with there top 10 pick again this year or Cassell. Mark that down!

bpc
05-06-2010, 04:14 AM
Considering we at least have a solid option under center between Kyle Orton who has started a couple years in the NFLand played at a fairly high level, Brady Quinn who has also started a bunch of games and is a former 1st round pick, along with Tebow... I don't see how you can draw a conclusion that this move sets us back 5 years at a position where we're fairly loaded.

This is a pretty stupid article and says a lot more about the writer than it does about our QB position.

Drek
05-06-2010, 04:24 AM
Does it matter what I thought of every decision Shanahan made? I disapproved of many of them, fwiw (and can cite more than just a few instances). It doesn't change the fact that McDaniels' draft day '09 decision to trade this year's first round draft pick (which ended up being #14 overall) to move up in a weak draft and pick Alfonso Smith was risky and controversial... far more controversial than his reach this year for Tebow at #25. "I" believe we just might have been able to find a better player than the seemingly-mediocre Alfonso Smith... at #14 this year.

1. Its Alphonso Smith, not Alfonso. Is it really too much to ask of Broncos fans to know how to spell the names of players they claim the entire future of the franchise hinges on?

2. Deep draft or weak draft, Alphonso Smith is a better QB prospect than everyone but Joe Haden from this draft, and he gives Haden a run for his money. The depth or shallowness of a draft is a very general thing and in this draft the top end for corners lacked any kind of real elite guy. If we'd stayed at 14 we'd still be in real need for a young corner of the future, and we'd likely have taken Kareem Jackson, Kyle Wilson, or Devin McCourty to fill that massive need. All prospects that Alphonso Smith coming out last year would stand toe to toe with quite easily.

3. Teams draft busts a hell of a lot higher than the #14 overall pick. The opportunity cost associated with acquiring Smith is marginal at best since we made 2 1st round selections and 3 second round selections in '09 now followed up by 2 1st round selections, 1 second round selection, and 2 third round selections this year. We've taken 5 guys in the first three rounds the last two years, we've been quite pick-rich and one move does not make or break that entire series of moves.

What WILL define Josh's future here is how those 10 players pan out as a whole. There will be busts or underachievers. But at least half of them need to become better than average starters, and at least a couple of them need to be pro-bowlers.

He's got the guys he wants and now its time he shows that they can play.

Mr Chatterboodamn
05-06-2010, 04:36 AM
you guys really flail around trying to justify to yourselves what's going on....kinda funny/sad

ZONA
05-06-2010, 04:40 AM
Let them all doubt. They need to write about something, even if it's BS.

Blueflame
05-06-2010, 04:46 AM
1. Its Alphonso Smith, not Alfonso. Is it really too much to ask of Broncos fans to know how to spell the names of players they claim the entire future of the franchise hinges on?

2. Deep draft or weak draft, Alphonso Smith is a better QB prospect than everyone but Joe Haden from this draft, and he gives Haden a run for his money. The depth or shallowness of a draft is a very general thing and in this draft the top end for corners lacked any kind of real elite guy. If we'd stayed at 14 we'd still be in real need for a young corner of the future, and we'd likely have taken Kareem Jackson, Kyle Wilson, or Devin McCourty to fill that massive need. All prospects that Alphonso Smith coming out last year would stand toe to toe with quite easily.

3. Teams draft busts a hell of a lot higher than the #14 overall pick. The opportunity cost associated with acquiring Smith is marginal at best since we made 2 1st round selections and 3 second round selections in '09 now followed up by 2 1st round selections, 1 second round selection, and 2 third round selections this year. We've taken 5 guys in the first three rounds the last two years, we've been quite pick-rich and one move does not make or break that entire series of moves.

What WILL define Josh's future here is how those 10 players pan out as a whole. There will be busts or underachievers. But at least half of them need to become better than average starters, and at least a couple of them need to be pro-bowlers.

He's got the guys he wants and now its time he shows that they can play.

1. People throughout Broncofanland still spell Elvis' last name "Dumerville" and he's been a Bronco far longer than Alphonso....so give me a break on the lame "spelling smack".

2. Alphonso Smith is a QB prospect? ??? Alert kingneckbeard.com.

3. No kidding. The Fade have drafted lots of busts higher than #14... including JaMammoth Russell at #1 overall.

None of this changes the fact that a noob HC made a controversial trade on draft day in his rookie season... making a huge reach for a player who (so far... in his first season) has underachieved. For that trade to appear to be anything close to resembling "a smart move".... Alphonso needs to step up... a lot... this year.

robbieopperude
05-06-2010, 05:13 AM
1. Its Alphonso Smith, not Alfonso. Is it really too much to ask of Broncos fans to know how to spell the names of players they claim the entire future of the franchise hinges on?

2. Deep draft or weak draft, Alphonso Smith is a better CB prospect than everyone but Joe Haden from this draft, and he gives Haden a run for his money. The depth or shallowness of a draft is a very general thing and in this draft the top end for corners lacked any kind of real elite guy. If we'd stayed at 14 we'd still be in real need for a young corner of the future, and we'd likely have taken Kareem Jackson, Kyle Wilson, or Devin McCourty to fill that massive need. All prospects that Alphonso Smith coming out last year would stand toe to toe with quite easily.

3. Teams draft busts a hell of a lot higher than the #14 overall pick. The opportunity cost associated with acquiring Smith is marginal at best since we made 2 1st round selections and 3 second round selections in '09 now followed up by 2 1st round selections, 1 second round selection, and 2 third round selections this year. We've taken 5 guys in the first three rounds the last two years, we've been quite pick-rich and one move does not make or break that entire series of moves.

What WILL define Josh's future here is how those 10 players pan out as a whole. There will be busts or underachievers. But at least half of them need to become better than average starters, and at least a couple of them need to be pro-bowlers.

He's got the guys he wants and now its time he shows that they can play.

Fix it for you...and Smith isn't in Hadens league. But you make a point that he is probably a guy that falls into that next group.

robbieopperude
05-06-2010, 05:16 AM
1. People throughout Broncofanland still spell Elvis' last name "Dumerville" and he's been a Bronco far longer than Alphonso....so give me a break on the lame "spelling smack".

2. Alphonso Smith is a QB prospect? ??? Alert kingneckbeard.com.

3. No kidding. The Fade have drafted lots of busts higher than #14... including JaMammoth Russell at #1 overall.

None of this changes the fact that a noob HC made a controversial trade on draft day in his rookie season... making a huge reach for a player who (so far... in his first season) has underachieved. For that trade to appear to be anything close to resembling "a smart move".... Alphonso needs to step up... a lot... this year.

It wasn't a huge reach. It wasn't like the guy was rated a 3rd round prospect or anything. I think Josh just banked a little to much on how good he thought his team could be an figured that pick he traded would fall in the mid twenties. About the same spot they had Smith rated two years ago. Still not a huge reach.

Blueflame
05-06-2010, 05:39 AM
It wasn't a huge reach. It wasn't like the guy was rated a 3rd round prospect or anything. I think Josh just banked a little to much on how good he thought his team could be an figured that pick he traded would fall in the mid twenties. About the same spot they had Smith rated two years ago. Still not a huge reach.

Opinions vary on how much of a reach it was....many, many people questioned the wisdom of trading a future #1 to move up a few slots in the 2nd round of a weak draft though. Still, everything depends on how the player who was "reached for" performs on the field. If he elevates his game and plays well enough that we no longer need the over-the-hill Ty Law... then maybe the trade will be viewed as a "win" for McDaniels. At this point in time, though... Alphonso doesn't look to be "all that"...

mizzoutigers
05-06-2010, 05:49 AM
guys and gals consider the source in the quote, guy's an idiot. comment has NO weight to it.

Ugly Duck
05-06-2010, 06:10 AM
the Broncos were used to dominating Oakland. Now, the Broncos are the more uncertain team.

Heh. Heh-heh.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 06:11 AM
Tebow's a rookie. The player who has to deliver... at essentially a Pro Bowl level... this year to silence McDaniels' critics... is Alfonso Smith. That controversial trade last year will haunt McDaniels... and might even ultimately cost him his job... if Smith winds up being a bust.

Wow, what a load of whining hyperbole.

Was it a questionable move? Yes.

To say that McD will be haunted and possibly lose his job if Smith doesn't perform at a Pro Bowl level this year, is just complete sour grapes garbage.

chex
05-06-2010, 06:32 AM
Wow, so coupled with the trade of Cutler, we won't be competitive now for another 14 years. And here I thought we knocked off one year of being set back a decade, now they're adding 5 more! Might as well get a headstart and start scouting elementary school players since we have 14 years to play around with.

cousinal11
05-06-2010, 06:35 AM
Baldinger is a nut bag.

chex
05-06-2010, 06:38 AM
Wow, what a load of whining hyperbole.

Was it a questionable move? Yes.

To say that McD will be haunted and possibly lose his job if Smith doesn't perform at a Pro Bowl level this year, is just complete sour grapes garbage.

Seriously, anyone still clinging to the belief that Mcd's fate will be determined by the level of success Alphonso Smith has, is living in a cave. If anything, the Tebow pick now will define his stay here.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-06-2010, 06:38 AM
Tebow's a rookie. The player who has to deliver... at essentially a Pro Bowl level... this year to silence McDaniels' critics... is Alfonso Smith. That controversial trade last year will haunt McDaniels... and might even ultimately cost him his job... if Smith winds up being a bust.

/rolleyes

Let me see if I'm following your hyperbole correctly:

The Broncos could go 13-3 this year, go to the AFC Championship Game or the Super Bowl, and if Alphonso Smith doesn't perform at a Pro Bowl level, you won't shut up about being a McDaniels critic. Is that right?

That's not insane or anything.

BowlenBall
05-06-2010, 06:41 AM
Baldinger is a nut bag.

I think that this was the original point of the thread... I understand media personalities not liking a particular player, but the Tebow seems to really inspire some genuine (yet irrational) hatred out there....

cmhargrove
05-06-2010, 06:41 AM
JaMarcus Russell put the Raiders behind.

It's not so much about the pick as it is what the player is intended to be.

McDaniels is going all-in with Tebow as his franchise QB.

Bob, I read this and I smell a little concern on your part. Knowing who Tebow is and what he has done, are you willing to bet against him so early?

I mean, he's no Brodie Croyle yet, but he has quite a good track record at actually winning football games...

dbfan21
05-06-2010, 06:48 AM
If you're familiar with The Sporting News, then you know their sports journalism is complete garbage! I take this with a grain of salt.

Drek
05-06-2010, 07:37 AM
1. People throughout Broncofanland still spell Elvis' last name "Dumerville" and he's been a Bronco far longer than Alphonso....so give me a break on the lame "spelling smack".l
And those people should be corrected as well.

In reality I'd love it if Taco put up a word filter for things like "Dumerville" where when someone typed it something like "I'm an idiot" would show up instead. Thats what a baseball forum I know with did and it got people addressing players by their actual names fairly quickly.

Same forum also subtitled a forum "If Jenna Jamison can handle more than 25 dudes at once so can you" for their minor league sub-forum though, so its a bit more "colorful" than the Mane in its willingness to chide/insult its own members.

QB[/b] prospect? ??? Alert kingneckbeard.com.
See, now that is a type-o, happens to everyone. Not the same as repeatedly misspelling a player's name.

None of this changes the fact that a noob HC made a controversial trade on draft day in his rookie season... making a huge reach for a player who (so far... in his first season) has underachieved. For that trade to appear to be anything close to resembling "a smart move".... Alphonso needs to step up... a lot... this year.
Every coach makes a bad move sometimes. Every front office guy has picked a bust. Alphonso Smith is as integral to McDaniels long term legacy as Jamal Williams or Jarvis Green. He's another guy. If he never does anything and Carter or Jones turns into an above average or better starter then no one will even care.

jhns
05-06-2010, 07:45 AM
When talking about set backs, the Tebow pick has no chance of setting this franchise as far back as giving away Cutler and Marshall. Shoot, we could have been a good playoff team last season if we had an offence. Oh well, I'm sure that whole thing about not being able to win with a dick player is true. Just ask the Steelers.

TonyR
05-06-2010, 07:45 AM
Wow, what a load of whining hyperbole.

Was it a questionable move? Yes.

To say that McD will be haunted and possibly lose his job if Smith doesn't perform at a Pro Bowl level this year, is just complete sour grapes garbage.

I was thinking the same thing. To suggest that every 1st round pick has to perform at a Pro Bowl level is preposterous. Silly. The guy needs to step up, sure, but let's not get carried away.

TonyR
05-06-2010, 07:46 AM
...giving away Cutler and Marshall...

I'm not aware that we "gave away" either of them, particularly Cutler. Try again. You haters and your silly hyperbole.

bronco militia
05-06-2010, 07:48 AM
LOL...who knew so many people in sports hated going to church.

jhns
05-06-2010, 07:50 AM
I'm not aware that we "gave away" either of them, particularly Cutler. Try again. You haters and your silly hyperbole.

We didn't give them away? Then is Cutlers vacation over yet so we can move on from Orton? That kind of makes the Tebow pick a silly one.

broncogary
05-06-2010, 07:51 AM
And those people should be corrected as well.

In reality I'd love it if Taco put up a word filter for things like "Dumerville" where when someone typed it something like "I'm an idiot" would show up instead. Thats what a baseball forum I know with did and it got people addressing players by their actual names fairly quickly.

Same forum also subtitled a forum "If Jenna Jamison can handle more than 25 dudes at once so can you" for their minor league sub-forum though, so its a bit more "colorful" than the Mane in its willingness to chide/insult its own members.

[quote2. Alphonso Smith is a QB prospect? ??? Alert kingneckbeard.com.


Jenna Jameson. :wiggle:

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 07:52 AM
We didn't give them away? Then is Cutlers vacation over yet so we can move on from Orton? That kind of makes the Tebow pick a silly one.

Please leave.

LRtagger
05-06-2010, 07:53 AM
The A Smith trade will be an afterthought if Moreno, Ayers, and Tebow perform. You can tie McDaniels' career to those players, not a CB.

jhns
05-06-2010, 07:54 AM
Please leave.

I know, the truth is upsetting.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 07:54 AM
I know, the truth is upsetting.

give   [giv] Show IPA verb, gave, giv·en, giv·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1.
to present voluntarily and without expecting compensation; bestow:

meangene
05-06-2010, 07:55 AM
TSN=rag
Baldinger=Dukes

That is all.

Cito Pelon
05-06-2010, 07:58 AM
Wow, so coupled with the trade of Cutler, we won't be competitive now for another 14 years. And here I thought we knocked off one year of being set back a decade, now they're adding 5 more! Might as well get a headstart and start scouting elementary school players since we have 14 years to play around with.

Good one. I get tired of this "set back by" and "McD's job depends on" Tebow and Phonz. As Drek I believe pointed out above, it's the totality of the picks, & of course the FA's, that matters.

But, people are gonna discuss those two picks and what might have been for many, many years. Even if the team wins a bunch of playoff games, Div titles, AFC titles.

jhns
05-06-2010, 08:00 AM
give? ?[giv] Show IPA verb, gave, giv·en, giv·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1.
to present voluntarily and without expecting compensation; bestow:

So are we going to go back to this thing that we can't use hyperbole? I use it one day and listen to all of you cry about it. I laugh at one of you using it and you all defend him. I use it again and I am in the wrong.

Haters will hate.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 08:08 AM
So are we going to go back to this thing that we can't use hyperbole? I use it one day and listen to all of you cry about it. I laugh at one of you using it and you all defend him. I use it again and I am in the wrong.

Haters will hate.
hy·per·bo·le   [hahy-pur-buh-lee] Show IPA
–noun Rhetoric .
1.
obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2.
an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Not to be confused with:

mal·a·prop·ism   [mal-uh-prop-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
an act or habit of misusing words ridiculously

listopencil
05-06-2010, 08:10 AM
Tebow's a rookie. The player who has to deliver... at essentially a Pro Bowl level... this year to silence McDaniels' critics... is Alfonso Smith. That controversial trade last year will haunt McDaniels... and might even ultimately cost him his job... if Smith winds up being a bust.

True, although I don't think it will cost him his job if Smith doesn't work out. If Smith, Ayers and Moreno don't work out then he's in trouble. If Tebow flops on top of all that...I'd say he's gone.

Steve Sewell
05-06-2010, 08:10 AM
Nonsense.

Let's say (for example) the light finally comes on for Brady Quinn, and he ends up being a pro bowl quarterback. How, in this plausible scenario, is our franchise set back 5 years, regardless of what we intended Tebow to be?

Hell, KYLE ORTON almost made the pro bowl last year on a team that was expected by many to win 3-4 games. Some of the garbage being spewed by idiots like Bob and some members of the national media is just breathtaking. I can't remember, at any time, McD saying that Tebow is the franchise QB. There is already a capable QB on the roster. I could actually see the Broncos keeping Orton/Quinn for several years (2-3 yrs) while Tebow develops.

Steve Sewell
05-06-2010, 08:14 AM
I would suggest that Josh's job will be looked at more on how he does in the offseason again next year and how this team improves from this year to next. I think this will be an in between year where he teaches "his" players the system and then next year it will be time to roll. Hopefully all the aging free agents we have signed will still be able to play because that is really what is going to help/hurt McDaniels.

The only way he gets fired after this season is if the Broncos looked completely lost and we go something like 4-12. The season after that I suspect he will have to either make the playoffs or have great support from his locker room to keep his job.

Really, I think he is more tied to all the vets who are going to have to play well in two years than Tebow.

People forget that Josh's job will be evaluated over a much longer time period than what is typically allowed by NFL franchises, specifically because Pat Bowlen is a different type of owner. If we don't make the playoffs this year, Bowlen isn't going to pull the rug out from under McD. He will give him an ample amount of time to build this team.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 08:17 AM
True, although I don't think it will cost him his job if Smith doesn't work out. If Smith, Ayers and Moreno don't work out then he's in trouble. If Tebow flops on top of all that...I'd say he's gone.

No individual player will determine anything. Tebow, Moreno, Ayers, Thomas, Smith, and Beadles could all flop and it won't make a bit of difference if the Broncos win 12 games and get a playoff victory or two.

Likewise, all those players could go to the Pro Bowl and it won't make a bit of difference if we're 16-16 over the next two years and don't make the playoffs.

Winning is the only thing that matters.

Kaylore
05-06-2010, 08:22 AM
I'm still amazed at how much people are hyping Cutler and Scheffler. Cutler had a horrible year. And Scheffler? What made him so awesome that we won't survive his departure? He was non-existent last year. Losing that "nothing" can't hurt us at all.

Steve Sewell
05-06-2010, 08:23 AM
When talking about set backs, the Tebow pick has no chance of setting this franchise as far back as giving away Cutler and Marshall. Shoot, we could have been a good playoff team last season if we had an offence. Oh well, I'm sure that whole thing about not being able to win with a dick player is true. Just ask the Steelers.

You need a new agenda pal.

jhns
05-06-2010, 08:31 AM
hy·per·bo·le? ?[hahy-pur-buh-lee] Show IPA
–noun Rhetoric .
1.
obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2.
an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Not to be confused with:

mal·a·prop·ism? ?[mal-uh-prop-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
an act or habit of misusing words ridiculously

You mean like saying Elway, Manning, and Brady all won with no o-line, no RB, no receivers, and no defense? You mean that kind of malapropism? Again, haters will hate.

jhns
05-06-2010, 08:36 AM
hy·per·bo·le? ?[hahy-pur-buh-lee] Show IPA
–noun Rhetoric .
1.
obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2.
an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Not to be confused with:

mal·a·prop·ism? ?[mal-uh-prop-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
an act or habit of misusing words ridiculously

Wait, I think I figured it out. It is only ok if I actually defend the ridiculous statement like you guys.

We gave them away because we didn't get close to their value in return. If I give you my car for $5, I just gave it away.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 08:39 AM
You mean like saying Elway, Manning, and Brady all won with no o-line, no RB, no receivers, and no defense? You mean that kind of malapropism?

Wow, you can't even use a word correctly when the definition is literally spelled out right in front of you.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 08:43 AM
We gave them away because we didn't get close to their value in return.

o·pin·ion   [uh-pin-yuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce
certainty.
Not to be confused with:

fact   [fakt] Show IPA
–noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth

BroncoMan4ever
05-06-2010, 08:43 AM
JaMarcus Russell put the Raiders behind.

It's not so much about the pick as it is what the player is intended to be.

McDaniels is going all-in with Tebow as his franchise QB.

there is a major difference between number 1 overall pick money and pressure on that pick to be a winner than there is for a number 25 pick.

along with the massive contract that eats up a large portion of cap space with being a number 1 pick, there is also the amount of hope that a team puts onto that player.

look at Brady Quinn in Cleveland. his money wasn't so much that the team didn't have a problem sitting him down when they saw he wasn't the future of that team, and were able to pay a good amount to someone else to lead the team.

with Tebow being a number 25 pick there is pressure on him and McDaniels, but it isn't at the level of Russell where if he busts it will set the franchise back that much.

jhns
05-06-2010, 08:44 AM
Wow, you can't even use a word correctly when the definition is literally spelled out right in front of you.

That is because your twist is dumb as hell.

Anyways, I did use it right. What do you call "NO" o-line, "NO" RB, "NO" receivers, and "NO" defense.

I would say it looks correct to me. Otherwise you are using it wrong.

jhns
05-06-2010, 08:46 AM
o·pin·ion? ?[uh-pin-yuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce
certainty.
Not to be confused with:

fact? ?[fakt] Show IPA
–noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth

Did you just figure this part out? You needed a dictionary for that? You aren't very educated are you?

azbroncfan
05-06-2010, 08:50 AM
You guys are nuts if you think Orton or Quinn are in the long-term picture at this point.

In two seasons (maybe one) Tim Tebow will take the first snap of the season as your starter. And then either your franchise will be rejuvenated or you're going to spend a couple years in hell before McDaniels is gone.

Finally a good post by Bob that isn't just straight pot stirring.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 08:51 AM
That is because your twist is dumb as hell.

Anyways, I did use it right. What do you call "NO" o-line, "NO" RB, "NO" receivers, and "NO" defense.

I would say it looks correct to me. Otherwise you are using it wrong.

I'm talking about your use of the word Malapropism, genius. That's the one where the definition was right in front of you.

Rohirrim
05-06-2010, 08:54 AM
On the OP, wrong again. If Sam Bradford doesn't work out the Rams are set back five years. If Tebow doesn't work out, then the Broncos lost the value of three picks, but they still have Orton, Quinn and Brandstater. It won't be much of a setback at all, merely a failed experiment. I would have much rather had Toby Gerhart and Alex Carrington with those picks but, what the hell. Coaches like to experiment.

BroncoMan4ever
05-06-2010, 08:57 AM
When talking about set backs, the Tebow pick has no chance of setting this franchise as far back as giving away Cutler and Marshall. Shoot, we could have been a good playoff team last season if we had an offence. Oh well, I'm sure that whole thing about not being able to win with a dick player is true. Just ask the Steelers.

giving away Cutler and Marshall?

McDaniels ass raped the Bears in getting them to take that cancer off our hands.

unless you think a guy turning the ball over an average of twice a game and leading team to an average of a 7-9 season every year is what a QB should strive for, we were lucky to get what we got for him. If the Bears today decided to put him on the trade market there is no chance in hell they get anything near what we got for him.

With Marshall, we got the most we possibly could for him. no team was going to give up a 1st rounder for a head case, who wanted Fitzgerald level money.

I am sorry, but we did not give either of them away. Had we just dumped them on these teams for a few mid round picks then yes we would have given them away, but we got more than faircompensation for them.

Mr.Meanie
05-06-2010, 09:00 AM
This whole argument ultimately doesn't matter. If Tebow and Smith turn out to be epic busts but we still win the division or make a deep run in the playoffs, no one will care.

If Tebow and Smith turn into perennial All-Pros and future hall of famers, and we finish in 3-13 for the next 2 years, is there anyone here who would care?

All that will ever matter is putting together a winning team.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 09:00 AM
giving away Cutler and Marshall?

McDaniels ass raped the Bears in getting them to take that cancer off our hands.

unless you think a guy turning the ball over an average of twice a game and leading team to an average of a 7-9 season every year is what a QB should strive for, we were lucky to get what we got for him. If the Bears today decided to put him on the trade market there is no chance in hell they get anything near what we got for him.

With Marshall, we got the most we possibly could for him. no team was going to give up a 1st rounder for a head case, who wanted Fitzgerald level money.

I am sorry, but we did not give either of them away. Had we just dumped them on these teams for a few mid round picks then yes we would have given them away, but we got more than faircompensation for them.
Careful. He's about to tell you it's a fact we gave them away because he thinks so.

Then he's going to tell you he never said we "gave" them away. Then he's going to change the argument entirely.

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:01 AM
I'm talking about your use of the word Malapropism, genius. That's the one where the definition was right in front of you.

I know what you said. You aren't very smart are you? I gave you an example of someone repeatedly "misusing" a word to exagerate a point. The exact same thing you are claiming I did.

Either I used it correctly or you are going to look pretty dumb for trying to use words you don't know, even with the definition in your post.

BroncoMan4ever
05-06-2010, 09:02 AM
You guys are nuts if you think Orton or Quinn are in the long-term picture at this point.

In two seasons (maybe one) Tim Tebow will take the first snap of the season as your starter. And then either your franchise will be rejuvenated or you're going to spend a couple years in hell before McDaniels is gone.

I agree completely. Orton and Quinn are nothing more than placeholders keeping the seat warm for Tebow.

So many talk about why did we bring in Quinn if we were just going to draft Tebow. Quinn was brought in to upgrade the backup position because he already has a fair grasp on the offense and comes cheap.

The original plan very likely was not to draft a QB in the 1st round, it was to get a guy in the mid to late rounds like Skelton or Canfield and have McDaniels groom the guy for a year or 2, but the team and coaching staff fell in love with Tebow and changed the plans.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 09:03 AM
I know what you said.

No you don't.

Gob
05-06-2010, 09:03 AM
No individual player will determine anything. Tebow, Moreno, Ayers, Thomas, Smith, and Beadles could all flop and it won't make a bit of difference if the Broncos win 12 games and get a playoff victory or two.

Likewise, all those players could go to the Pro Bowl and it won't make a bit of difference if we're 16-16 over the next two years and don't make the playoffs.

Winning is the only thing that matters.

I agree with this. Quite a few good coaches have made a career out of trading away draft picks for vet players, or just not really hitting in the draft but still doing well. I think the coaches that are tied to their 1st rounders are the youth movement, rebuilding coaches who have losing records and draft a qb in the top 10. The owner and the fans want that top 10 pick playing, so the coach has to win, and win with the drafted qb.
Concerns about reaching for Tebow, Thomas, or Quinn is basically being penny wise and pound foolish to me, you care about hypothetical draft points but don't care about ensuring you get the player you project to have the biggest impact on your team. Smith, on the other hand, can't be dismissed so easily unless you are desperate to shield Josh from criticism. The issue isn't just draft points, but that the player doesn't seem to be able to play the role he was drafted for (at all, at this point). Nothing that would jeopardize Josh though, if he is fired it will be because of problems in January rather then April.

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:05 AM
Careful. He's about to tell you it's a fact we gave them away because he thinks so.

Then he's going to tell you he never said we "gave" them away. Then he's going to change the argument entirely.

I think I hurt this guys feelings at some point.

I'm sorry dedhed, you can stop crying now.

cmhargrove
05-06-2010, 09:06 AM
When talking about set backs, the Tebow pick has no chance of setting this franchise as far back as giving away Cutler and Marshall. Shoot, we could have been a good playoff team last season if we had an offence. Oh well, I'm sure that whole thing about not being able to win with a dick player is true. Just ask the Steelers.

Just a point of order,
1. Who won more games last year, Orton or Cutler?
2. Despite Marshall's career so far, has he ever helped his team to the playoffs? He was a tremendous player, but he also had some limitations (like every player does). It sounds like we offered him a fair price (9.5 mil a year) and he wouldn't take it. Why do you think it was bad to get as much as we could for him at that point?
3. Why is you think McD's goal is to lose? He is trying to build a team (of character) that he thinks will win, it's just that his opinion differs from yours on how to go about that.

Usually "win at all cost" fans are bandwagon fans. Your point about the Steelers falls short, because recent polls show that at least 30-40% of Steelers fans would be fine letting Big Ben walk (because of character issues).

Can you just wait to see how our season develops before you declare it a failure?

SonOfLe-loLang
05-06-2010, 09:07 AM
McDaniels' job is not hinged on draft picks, its directly tied to his wins/losses, isnt this obvious? Alphonso Smith could be the ****tiest player of all time and it won't matter a lick if the broncos are in the playoffs.

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:07 AM
No you don't.

Then explain the difference. There is a reason your responses are just whiney at this point. You have nothing. Like that post crying about what I didn't say. Funny stuff.

Smiling Assassin27
05-06-2010, 09:07 AM
JaMarcus Russell put the Raiders behind.

It's not so much about the pick as it is what the player is intended to be.

McDaniels is going all-in with Tebow as his franchise QB.

Incorrect. If he were going 'all in', he'd have Tebow starting immediately for him. Instead, Orton and Quinn (if he's around) will compete for the starters job while Tim watches. This in no way puts them behind--let alone 5 years-- and is in no way comparable to Russell, who was put out there immediately and surrounded with bad coaching, bad teammates, and bad ownership.

Old Dude
05-06-2010, 09:08 AM
If Tebow can set this franchise back 5 years, I'm all for it.

Five years ago (2005-2006 season) Denver won the AFC West and made it all the way to the conference championship.

Go Tim!

Kaylore
05-06-2010, 09:10 AM
Careful. He's about to tell you it's a fact we gave them away because he thinks so.

Then he's going to tell you he never said we "gave" them away. Then he's going to change the argument entirely.

:~ohyah!:Don't waste your time. He's hysterical and illogical.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 09:13 AM
I agree with this. Quite a few good coaches have made a career out of trading away draft picks for vet players, or just not really hitting in the draft but still doing well. I think the coaches that are tied to their 1st rounders are the youth movement, rebuilding coaches who have losing records and draft a qb in the top 10. The owner and the fans want that top 10 pick playing, so the coach has to win, and win with the drafted qb.
Concerns about reaching for Tebow, Thomas, or Quinn is basically being penny wise and pound foolish to me, you care about hypothetical draft points but don't care about ensuring you get the player you project to have the biggest impact on your team. Smith, on the other hand, can't be dismissed so easily unless you are desperate to shield Josh from criticism. The issue isn't just draft points, but that the player doesn't seem to be able to play the role he was drafted for (at all, at this point). Nothing that would jeopardize Josh though, if he is fired it will be because of problems in January rather then April.Nice post. Your point about owners and fans of rebuilding franchises want high draft picks to play brings up a concern of mine regarding Tebow.

Given Tebow's celebrity I do think there will be pressure from fans and media, not so much Bowlen because he's not that type of owner, for Tebow to have immediate impact. The fans, particularly Tebow fans who aren't necessarily Broncos fans, will be clamoring for him regardless of whether he's ready.

It will be interesting to see if McDaniels can resist that draw, and his own curiosity, and wait for Tebow to develop.

TheDave
05-06-2010, 09:14 AM
Though I think the article is off target there is some truth to a QB experiment setting a team back... if the QB experiment doesn't work.

Though there is a slight chance that tebow never amounts to anything more than gimmick player, the odds are he will be given a chance to sink or swim as a starter in the next season or 2. Once that happens he will be given at least 2 or 3 seasons to prove himself. If he fails then the usual series of events goes something like this...

Coach fired
New coach hired
Failed QB released (or a new "open" competition is anounced)
New QB is signed or drafted
Old regime of players is replaced with new regime

The point is, a failed QB experiment can easily set a team back 5 years... but that's only if he fails.

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:15 AM
Just a point of order,
1. Who won more games last year, Orton or Cutler?
2. Despite Marshall's career so far, has he ever helped his team to the playoffs? He was a tremendous player, but he also had some limitations (like every player does). It sounds like we offered him a fair price (9.5 mil a year) and he wouldn't take it. Why do you think it was bad to get as much as we could for him at that point?
3. Why is you think McD's goal is to lose? He is trying to build a team (of character) that he thinks will win, it's just that his opinion differs from yours on how to go about that.

Usually "win at all cost" fans are bandwagon fans. Your point about the Steelers falls short, because recent polls show that at least 30-40% of Steelers fans would be fine letting Big Ben walk (because of character issues).

Can you just wait to see how our season develops before you declare it a failure?

1) Neither. The Broncos won more games than the Bears.

2) It is Marshalls fault his team had no defense and then a new coach starts to get a defense and rips apart the offense? Sure thing buddy. Again, team sport. You aren't going to be the best if you don't have some great talent and a complete team. We are working more toward the complete team but giving away the top talent. This is why our defense and special teams improved a ton and we didn't get any better.

3) I don't think he wants to fail. I think his ego has gotten the better of him a few times and made him do things even he doesn't think are good for this team. It is why Bowlen came out with the "he has made mistakes" speach. McDaniels himself said it is never in the best interest of this team to trade Cutler. Which is another thing funny about you guys claiming Culter sucks. Shanahan, McDaniels, Bowlen, and Elway don't agree with that. I have long interviews from each that proves this. I agree with the guys that know what they are talking about.

4) I have never declared this season a failure. I am actually excited to see if McDaniels can actually replace Cutler. He used a high pick on a QB so I am interested to see how that turns out.

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:17 AM
:~ohyah!:Don't waste your time. He's hysterical and illogical.

Says the guy who did the exact same thing he is whining about.

Again, haters will hate.

Popps
05-06-2010, 09:24 AM
1) I am actually excited to see if McDaniels can actually replace Cutler.

Why would you have to "replace" a losing QB who practically led the league in INTs?

Dumping that puffy loser was addition by subtraction.

Flex Gunmetal
05-06-2010, 09:26 AM
Says the guy who did the exact same thing he is whining about.

Again, haters will hate.

You're using that phrase incorrectly. In order to have haters, they must be envious.
No one is jealous of you at all. You are the village idiot till rasta and bf7 make their cameos.
Oh, and as far as everything else you have posted in this thread: You have no leg to stand on, you're a broken record and a moron. Find a new angle, people may just start to take you seriously.

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:27 AM
Why would you have to "replace" a losing QB who practically led the league in INTs?

Dumping that puffy loser was addition by subtraction.

Addition = Getting a lot worse on offense the instant he left even though the youth had more experience.

Sure, I agree.

Flex Gunmetal
05-06-2010, 09:29 AM
And I would like to point out that by labeling scheffler an offensive star is lulzy.
Are we really taking brian ****ing baldinger seriously?

dbfan21
05-06-2010, 09:30 AM
If Tebow can set this franchise back 5 years, I'm all for it.

Five years ago (2005-2006 season) Denver won the AFC West and made it all the way to the conference championship.

Go Tim!

Great point! ^5

Flex Gunmetal
05-06-2010, 09:31 AM
Addition = Getting a lot worse on offense the instant he left even though the youth had more experience.

Sure, I agree.

Please point out how much worse our offense was without cutler.

Oh ya, 4 less touchdowns, 7 less INTs.

As we learned at the end of 2008, yards don't equal points.

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:31 AM
You're using that phrase incorrectly. In order to have haters, they must be envious.
No one is jealous of you at all. You are the village idiot till rasta and bf7 make their cameos.
Oh, and as far as everything else you have posted in this thread: You have no leg to stand on, you're a broken record and a moron. Find a new angle, people may just start to take you seriously.

I stand just fine. It doesn't bother me that you guys can't handle reality and get upset by others opinions. I do find it funny how hypocritical you all are though. That and the ridiculous takes people have because they got their feelings hurt by a player. Again, I stay here for the comedy.

Paladin
05-06-2010, 09:33 AM
Tebow's a rookie. The player who has to deliver... at essentially a Pro Bowl level... this year to silence McDaniels' critics... is Alfonso Smith. That controversial trade last year will haunt McDaniels... and might even ultimately cost him his job... if Smith winds up being a bust.

Nonsense. The AL Smith Crying Jag is passe. There iis no effect from Smith's status on this years' Broncos, or the future for that matter. The "Smith Dramatics" are just plain idiocy.

DenverBrit
05-06-2010, 09:35 AM
He's going to be haunted (second-guessed, criticized, whatever) by that (IMO, stupid) trade of a future 1st for a 2nd round pick.... if the player he reached for winds up being a bust. This year's draft featured far better prospects than Alfonso Smith.

Most of Shanny's first round picks were busts, Bowlen's used to it.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 09:35 AM
Addition = Getting a lot worse on offense the instant he left even though the youth had more experience.

Sure, I agree.

So going from 16th in scoring to 15th is "Getting a lot worse on offense"?

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:38 AM
Please point out how much worse our offense was without cutler.

Oh ya, 4 less touchdowns, 7 less INTs.

As we learned at the end of 2008, yards don't equal points.

Really? Have you looked up our scoring totals? We had more defensive and special teams TDs this past year and our scoring total still isn't near the year before. We had a more accurate kicker this past year and still the scoring total doesn't match the year before.

Our offense this past year also made the defense see the field a lot more. The year before, our defense saw the second fewest drives in the league and still was the worst ever for this franchise.

What is funny about that yards argument is that offense had the 32nd ranked starting field position. Maybe if they had a defense, more of the drives would have been scores. They drove further, per drive, than any offense in the league. They made up enough ground that even with turnovers and bad special teams, the defense had the 16th best starting field position.

For real though, I can go on all day about this stuff. If you want me to continue, I will.

colonelbeef
05-06-2010, 09:38 AM
JaMarcus Russell put the Raiders behind.

It's not so much about the pick as it is what the player is intended to be.

McDaniels is going all-in with Tebow as his franchise QB.

correct. The intention is for Tebow to take over. That's what happens when you trade your young pro bowl QB and pick a QB in the first round the following year.

DenverBrit
05-06-2010, 09:41 AM
JaMarcus Russell put the Raiders behind.

It's not so much about the pick as it is what the player is intended to be.

McDaniels is going all-in with Tebow as his franchise QB.


Tebow will have to compete just like everyone else on the team.

Maybe he'll make it maybe he won't, but to compare him with Russel is stupid.

Comparing Cassel's effect on KC with Russel's effect in Oakland would be more accurate.

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:41 AM
So going from 16th in scoring to 15th is "Getting a lot worse on offense"?

We went to 15th? I think you are off by a bit there big guy.

Anyways, maybe you should use an offensive stat. I know, you don't understand what that means. I can't blame you for not being as informed as me as you act like my opinion is worthless and you know everything.

I laugh at a lot of your posts.

Paladin
05-06-2010, 09:47 AM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

There really ought to be a licensing requirement fto weed out idiots like this. I doubt this bozo can actually tie his/her/its shoes. This guy would have been great as the fourth Stooge. And he'd be long gone by now if he had been. Interesting thought.....

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 09:48 AM
We went to 15th? I think you are off by a bit there big guy.
Sorry, it's true. And the Bears were 14th under Orton, and 19th with Cutler.

Flex Gunmetal
05-06-2010, 09:50 AM
I stand just fine. It doesn't bother me that you guys can't handle reality and get upset by others opinions. I do find it funny how hypocritical you all are though. That and the ridiculous takes people have because they got their feelings hurt by a player. Again, I stay here for the comedy.
There are a lot of words in this post for saying absolutely nothing.
Point out my hypocrisy, please. Or my ridiculous takes.
I can handle other's opinions just fine. I just find yours to be routinely stupid and irrelevant.
Really? Have you looked up our scoring totals? We had more defensive and special teams TDs this past year and our scoring total still isn't near the year before. We had a more accurate kicker this past year and still the scoring total doesn't match the year before.

Our offense this past year also made the defense see the field a lot more. The year before, our defense saw the second fewest drives in the league and still was the worst ever for this franchise.

What is funny about that yards argument is that offense had the 32nd ranked starting field position. Maybe if they had a defense, more of the drives would have been scores. They drove further, per drive, than any offense in the league. They made up enough ground that even with turnovers and bad special teams, the defense had the 16th best starting field position.

For real though, I can go on all day about this stuff. If you want me to continue, I will.
I looked up the performance of the respective QBs during their time in Denver (Orton in 09 and Cutler in 08).
You know, since that was what you were hinging your lulzy argument on.

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:51 AM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

There really ought to be a licensing requirement fto weed out idiots like this. I doubt this bozo can actually tie his/her/its shoes. This guy would have been great as the fourth Stooge. And he'd be long gone by now if he had been. Interesting thought.....

You cry all the time about tons of posters. You post that you have everyone on ignore if they have any difference in opinion.

You are a weak minded drama queen.

Flex Gunmetal
05-06-2010, 09:52 AM
blahblahblah

He can't hear you.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 09:53 AM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

There really ought to be a licensing requirement fto weed out idiots like this. I doubt this bozo can actually tie his/her/its shoes. This guy would have been great as the fourth Stooge. And he'd be long gone by now if he had been. Interesting thought.....I find reading jhns posts similar to watching someone walk into a screen door.

Funny because of it's stupidity, and no one really gets hurt.

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:53 AM
Sorry, it's true. And the Bears were 14th under Orton, and 19th with Cutler.

No, its not true. Please link to us being 15th in scoring this past season. Then let's talk about how your wrong stats aren't even offensive stats.

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:55 AM
He can't hear you.

Duh, that is half the fun. I can say whatever I want to him and he won't defend himself.

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:56 AM
I find reading jhns posts similar to watching someone walk into a screen door.

Funny because of it's stupidity, and no one really gets hurt.


LOL

Says the guy that can't read a stat page.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 09:59 AM
No, its not true. Please link to us being 15th in scoring this past season. Then let's talk about how your wrong stats aren't even offensive stats.
Oh, I get it. Setting up another one of your fallacious "Cutler" scored more points, but the Broncos scoring came from defense and STs. About right?

Flex Gunmetal
05-06-2010, 10:02 AM
Duh, that is half the fun. I can say whatever I want to him and he won't defend himself.

facepalm

You aren't just playing stupid, are you?

jhns
05-06-2010, 10:05 AM
Oh, I get it. Setting up another one of your fallacious "Cutler" scored more points, but the Broncos scoring came from defense and STs. About right?

For one, what is fallacious about you trying to use a team scoring stat to prove something about offense? Did Orton and Cutler help the defense and special teams score? It is funny that you don't have offensive stats to talk about the offense.

As for the 15th in scoring, that is just completely wrong no matter what your spin is. We weren't 15th in total scoring, offensive scoring, defensive scoring, or special teams scoring. I actually have no clue how you came up with that number.

Again though, I'm sure the more informed poster is the one that is way off. I find it funny that you guys can't even begin to holf your own in these types of arguments. It always just turns into whining about some random crap like fallacious arguments. Please though, tell me how a team stat proves something about offense. Those rankings are a lot different without defensive and special teams scores.

broncofan2438
05-06-2010, 10:06 AM
All these sports writers are a bunch of dumb ****ing idiots

jhns
05-06-2010, 10:07 AM
facepalm

You aren't just playing stupid, are you?

Sorry, "to him" was a bad choice of words. Change that to "about him".

Flex Gunmetal
05-06-2010, 10:16 AM
Sorry, "to him" was a bad choice of words. Change that to "about him".

Your choice of words isn't what led me to the conclusion.

Pseudofool
05-06-2010, 10:17 AM
Does jhns need to ruin one thread a day? At what point does this warrant a vacation? It's three threads, that might be interesting for the rest of us to discuss, in three days that have been derailed into a jhns retardtacular. Something should give. Maybe we can cap his posts at five per thread?

outdoor_miner
05-06-2010, 10:18 AM
I'm sure everyone else has covered the general idiocy of this article... But one other thing. It makes my blood boil to see Tony Scheffer referred to as a "young offensive star". He is a friggin slightly above average pass catching tight end. Nothing more.

snowspot66
05-06-2010, 10:19 AM
It wasn't a 2nd round CB based on what we gave up for him. He's ='s the 14th pick in this draft.

Smith is tied to Earl Thomas.

Not really. We wanted Tebow.

If we still had that pick in the draft we more than likely would have traded it for more picks to draft Tebow or straight up taken Tebow at 14.

jhns
05-06-2010, 10:21 AM
Your choice of words isn't what led me to the conclusion.

Then yes, I was being serious. I enjoy talking crap about all of those that feel the need to post the ignore messages 5 times a day. It brings me joy.

Rabb
05-06-2010, 10:21 AM
so he's tied to Earl Thomas...who the hell knows how Thomas is going to play?

HEAV
05-06-2010, 10:31 AM
Brian Baldinger ...Brian F'n Bal-dinger... like I give a F what he has to say. Tebow will prove all the doubters wrong. McDaniels will succeed and more than a few haters will have to suck it up and be fans again or go find another team to bandwagon.

DarkHorse30
05-06-2010, 10:40 AM
People actually read this vomit???

Baldinger's spew? or the vitriol raised on the MANE's hackle because of it?

BowlenBall
05-06-2010, 10:43 AM
Alright you ****ing thread highjackers.... 1001 views, 124 posts, and not one person has addressed the original question posed in the original thread....

Why the venom from (some of) the national media? Prisco and Baldinger (and to a lesser extent, Kiper and McShay) lost their **** when we drafted Tebow. Why in the world would a well-adjusted, humble kid (according to all reports) inspire such hatred from certain quarters of the media? I'm sincerely flummoxed....

jhns
05-06-2010, 10:48 AM
Alright you ****ing thread highjackers.... 1001 views, 124 posts, and not one person has addressed the original question posed in the original thread....

Why the venom from (some of) the national media? Prisco and Baldinger (and to a lesser extent, Kiper and McShay) lost their **** when we drafted Tebow. Why in the world would a well-adjusted, humble kid (according to all reports) inspire such hatred from certain quarters of the media? I'm sincerely flummoxed....

There are two separate reasons. 1) Some think Tebow won't make a good pro. 2) The others think he will take a while to become a good pro so the first round was way to early to take him.

I am just happy we aren't thinking of Orton as the future.

TonyR
05-06-2010, 10:55 AM
Why in the world would a well-adjusted, humble kid (according to all reports) inspire such hatred from certain quarters of the media? I'm sincerely flummoxed....

It is interesting. The closest comparison I can come up with is Tyler Hansbrough when he played for North Carolina. Just like Tebow he was considered a good kid, did and said all the right things, was a "coach's dream", was talented and successfull, was adored by his fan base, and was thought to not be good enough to play at the next level. Tebow adds another layer with the religion stuff. For some reason a lot of people don't like when people deemed to be too "perfect" get a lot of media attention. It's almost as if they had more personality or character flaws they'd be more well liked.

Rohirrim
05-06-2010, 10:55 AM
Alright you ****ing thread highjackers.... 1001 views, 124 posts, and not one person has addressed the original question posed in the original thread....

Why the venom from (some of) the national media? Prisco and Baldinger (and to a lesser extent, Kiper and McShay) lost their **** when we drafted Tebow. Why in the world would a well-adjusted, humble kid (according to all reports) inspire such hatred from certain quarters of the media? I'm sincerely flummoxed....

In one way, I would love to see Tebow suddenly turn out to be the biggest QB steal in the history of the NFL just so I could watch the East Coast press ****ing squirm.

HEAV
05-06-2010, 11:09 AM
Alright you ****ing thread highjackers.... 1001 views, 124 posts, and not one person has addressed the original question posed in the original thread....

Why the venom from (some of) the national media? Prisco and Baldinger (and to a lesser extent, Kiper and McShay) lost their **** when we drafted Tebow. Why in the world would a well-adjusted, humble kid (according to all reports) inspire such hatred from certain quarters of the media? I'm sincerely flummoxed....

People want to knock Tebow down. Back in 07-08 Tebow was gushed over by the College media, ESPN & ABC drooled over Tim during the Florida telecast and praised his skill, smarts and leadership.

Now the NFL side of the sports reporters are trying to knock Tim down. Tim has zero skeletons (as far as we know) and he's just a hard working open and honest kid. People grew to hate that about him.

People are always looking to tear down others and the NFL media boys are the same. Big Ben was praised when he was winning Super bowls (even though he's a dick) but you didn't hear the bad things about him until he gets busted with the girls.

Farve was a media darling for years, but now the media hates his retire/not retire antics.


I can careless what Cowherd, Rome and the other talking heads think of Tebow. They are just using Tebow for ratings and sports segments. Stirring up callers. The print media the same, the print media knows Talking Tebow sells papers and Mags.

I'm just glad he's on the team and that the team is more positive now than it was with Cutler and Marshall. While talented, they were negative.

We have a better TEAM now. Now it's just about growing, learning and winning.

I watched the kid play and win in college and given the time to learn he will do the same in the NFL.

Archer81
05-06-2010, 11:56 AM
1. I cant really explain why Baldinger and Priscoe and Dukes hate the Broncos moves so much. I suspect it has more to do with what McDaniels is doing to the roster then the new players brought in. The same hysterical refrain we heard here..."McDaniels is ruining the franchise, ZOMFG, we are trading away so much talent...McDaniels should be fired! Its the end of the world! Im not going to watch the Broncos no mo..." So naturally, the pissing and moaning is what the east/west coast guys pick up on and then automatically think all fans of the team think that way, so they are taking what they assume is the popular position.

2. Reality is the last 4 years Shanahan was coach, we did not have a very talented or deep "team". We collapsed late in seasons and missed the playoffs. \sarc These mega talented HOF'ers.../sarc never won anything that mattered here. Who cares if Marshall has 101 catches or Cutler throws for 4,000 yards if we NEVER make the postseason? And I cant forget the contributions of a fb with 400 career rushing yards over two seasons or the second coming of Shannon Sharpe...It was clearly better to start over and send these fools packing.

3. Jhns is an assclown. The faster the majority of this board ignores him, the better off we will all be.

:Broncos:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-06-2010, 11:58 AM
3. Jhns is an assclown. The faster the majority of this board ignores him, the better off we will all be.

:Broncos:

This.

PRBronco
05-06-2010, 12:18 PM
I have a rule of thumb that any time you can package a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick to get the most prolific college football player of the last 30 years, you don't do it. Because that would set your franchise back five years.

Durango
05-06-2010, 12:36 PM
Considering we at least have a solid option under center between Kyle Orton who has started a couple years in the NFLand played at a fairly high level, Brady Quinn who has also started a bunch of games and is a former 1st round pick, along with Tebow... I don't see how you can draw a conclusion that this move sets us back 5 years at a position where we're fairly loaded.

This is a pretty stupid article and says a lot more about the writer than it does about our QB position.

I think so too. Assuming the Broncos don't deal Orton this year, the Broncos have a pretty enviable situation at QB. Not ideal, but deep. My feeling is that Tebow WILL have a positive impact his very first year in some of McDaniels wildcat packages, Orton will provide continuity and stability, Quinn is insurance and Brandstater shows promise. Not a bad situation at all, and certainly not a step back any way you look at it.

jhns
05-06-2010, 12:45 PM
2. Reality is the last 4 years Shanahan was coach, we did not have a very talented or deep "team". We collapsed late in seasons and missed the playoffs.

What is funny about the crap talk directed my way is that I seem to be the only poster that knows what goes on with this team. You guys cry because my opinions are different than yours. You guys use fake stats and opinions generated from hurt feelings. You guys recite history and are completely off. What a strange group.

We were in the playoffs within the last 4 years of Shanahan. In fact, we made the AFCCG. Keep talking trash as I school you though.

Flex Gunmetal
05-06-2010, 01:00 PM
What is funny about the crap talk directed my way is that I seem to be the only poster that knows what goes on with this team. You guys cry because my opinions are different than yours. You guys use fake stats and opinions generated from hurt feelings. You guys recite history and are completely off. What a strange group.

We were in the playoffs within the last 4 years of Shanahan. In fact, we made the AFCCG. Keep talking trash as I school you though.

http://i43.tinypic.com/23kp2le.jpg

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-06-2010, 01:01 PM
I think so too. Assuming the Broncos don't deal Orton this year, the Broncos have a pretty enviable situation at QB. Not ideal, but deep. My feeling is that Tebow WILL have a positive impact his very first year in some of McDaniels wildcat packages, Orton will provide continuity and stability, Quinn is insurance and Brandstater shows promise. Not a bad situation at all, and certainly not a step back any way you look at it.

I agree. Depth is a huge plus for a team like ours, and the competition in camp -- between two guys with starting experience and a promising rookie who should immediately help our goal line and short yardage packages -- can only be described as a positive.

*WARHORSE*
05-06-2010, 01:28 PM
Baldinger is bald..........and a dinger.


DUMB.

Inkana7
05-06-2010, 03:39 PM
What is funny about the crap talk directed my way is that I seem to be the only poster that knows what goes on with this team. You guys cry because my opinions are different than yours. You guys use fake stats and opinions generated from hurt feelings. You guys recite history and are completely off. What a strange group.

We were in the playoffs within the last 4 years of Shanahan. In fact, we made the AFCCG. Keep talking trash as I school you though.

I want to make love to this post.

jhns, voice of truth.

Atwater His Ass
05-06-2010, 04:16 PM
jhns is pretty much right on with most of his takes. Most people around here thrive off revisionist history and double talk (espeacially with Cutler).

I also find it funny that because the majority of people want sunshine sprayed up their ass, it becomes a bandwagon thing to hate on him instead having any kind of discourse.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-06-2010, 04:27 PM
jhns is pretty much right on with most of his takes. Most people around here thrive off revisionist history and double talk (espeacially with Cutler).

I also find it funny that because the majority of people want sunshine sprayed up their ass, it becomes a bandwagon thing to hate on him instead having any kind of discourse.

:rofl:

Archer81
05-06-2010, 04:30 PM
jhns is pretty much right on with most of his takes. Most people around here thrive off revisionist history and double talk (espeacially with Cutler).

I also find it funny that because the majority of people want sunshine sprayed up their ass, it becomes a bandwagon thing to hate on him instead having any kind of discourse.


I find it funny you agree with someone with a similar take to your own.

Coincidence?

Jhns seriously believes the 80s Broncos were models of offensive and defensive talent. Just ask him. He will tell you all about it.

Sammy Winder a top 10 rb...good ****ing god...

:Broncos:

jhns
05-06-2010, 04:33 PM
Sammy Winder a top 10 rb...good ****ing god...

:Broncos:

^ LOL

I said in 86 he was, the year that we discussed. I guess you are right though. Him being #7 in rushing TDs and #4 in total TDs that season sure says #18 RB to me!

Paladin
05-06-2010, 04:43 PM
jhns is pretty much right on with most of his takes. Most people around here thrive off revisionist history and double talk (espeacially with Cutler).

I also find it funny that because the majority of people want sunshine sprayed up their ass, it becomes a bandwagon thing to hate on him instead having any kind of discourse.

Not true. I just deest deeply(euphemism for "hate") his fricking guts. There's nithing bandwagin about it..........

This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list.

Because he's so fricking stupid.....


Any questions?

jhns
05-06-2010, 05:03 PM
Not true. I just deest deeply(euphemism for "hate") his fricking guts. There's nithing bandwagin about it..........

This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list.

Because he's so fricking stupid.....


Any questions?

Drama Queen.....

DenverBrit
05-06-2010, 05:28 PM
I seem to be the only poster that knows what goes on with this team.



http://wordincarnate.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/prophet.jpg

ScottXray
05-06-2010, 06:04 PM
Not true. I just deest deeply(euphemism for "hate") his fricking guts. There's nithing bandwagin about it..........

This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list.

Because he's so fricking stupid.....


Any questions?

Well, we agree on something, anyway.

TonyR
05-06-2010, 06:44 PM
jhns is pretty much right on with most of his takes.

LOL!!! Congrats on being the first person I've seen agree with jhns this week. But kudos to you, and jhns, for sticking with your nonsensical beliefs. Your perseverance is admirable, if nothing else.

OABB
05-06-2010, 07:53 PM
Jhiz is the worst poster here. It's not his takes that are his problem. It's when he is wrong he acts like a baby. I hate that. It's ok to be wrong and it takes a man to admit it. Jhiz is an honorless douchebag and he brings down the board. He is a less intellegent lex.

watermock
05-06-2010, 08:07 PM
jhns is pretty much right on with most of his takes. Most people around here thrive off revisionist history and double talk (espeacially with Cutler).

I also find it funny that because the majority of people want sunshine sprayed up their ass, it becomes a bandwagon thing to hate on him instead having any kind of discourse.

I find that curiously amusing....

watermock
05-06-2010, 08:13 PM
^ LOL

I said in 86 he was, the year that we discussed. I guess you are right though. Him being #7 in rushing TDs and #4 in total TDs that season sure says #18 RB to me!

Sammy Winder was good, not any star. He's comperable to Moreno, not as good recieving, but a better blocker for Elway.

Mark Jackson too. He had a TON of game balls.

I still find it funny how as soon as a bronco is traded, they were crap.

BroncoBuff
05-06-2010, 08:20 PM
This.

Can't people have differing opinions?

I agree generally with jhns and atwaterhisass ... but this time no way.

"Behind for Five Years" is one of the dumbest, conclusory statements ever. In the first place, 5 years is an eternity in this league.

The thread starter said it best:

Wow -- even if you don't like Tebow, even if you don't like the Broncos, this seems to be a fairly foolish statement. We took him at #25, for God's sake, not #1. He wasn't even our first draft choice! If Tebow ends up being a total washout, it's simply not that big of a setback. Also, we've got a servicable caretaker QB (Orton), a reclamation project QB (Quinn), and a long-term developmental prospect QB (Brandstater) on the roster, so it's not like we were without hope at the position before the draft.

Frankly, I've been surprised at the level of hate from some members of the national media (Prisco from CBS Sports, Baldinger and Iyer here, the chuckleheads at NFL Network, etc., etc.)

This.

Archer81
05-06-2010, 08:29 PM
Sammy Winder was good, not any star. He's comperable to Moreno, not as good recieving, but a better blocker for Elway.

Mark Jackson too. He had a TON of game balls.

I still find it funny how as soon as a bronco is traded, they were crap.


Sammy Winder had one 1000 yard season, in 1984.

Making the probowl in 1986 when he had less than 800 yards rushing must have meant the AFC runningbacks were hurt that time of year or they all sucked a big dick.

The postseason of 1986, Winder did not score a single TD. In the SB, he did not have a single yard on the ground. This was a "top ten" running back? I dont think so.

:Broncos:

jhns
05-06-2010, 08:32 PM
"Behind for Five Years" is one of the dumbest, conclusory statements ever. In the first place, 5 years is an eternity in this league.


This is true but I don't like McDaniels.

Flex Gunmetal
05-06-2010, 08:40 PM
This is true but I don't like McDaniels.

Cool story bro.

broncswin
05-06-2010, 08:50 PM
You guys are nuts if you think Orton or Quinn are in the long-term picture at this point.

In two seasons (maybe one) Tim Tebow will take the first snap of the season as your starter. And then either your franchise will be rejuvenated or you're going to spend a couple years in hell before McDaniels is gone.

bob, Hell is were the mullets live...and we are far from that

watermock
05-06-2010, 08:50 PM
Sammy Winder had one 1000 yard season, in 1984.

Making the probowl in 1986 when he had less than 800 yards rushing must have meant the AFC runningbacks were hurt that time of year or they all sucked a big dick.

The postseason of 1986, Winder did not score a single TD. In the SB, he did not have a single yard on the ground. This was a "top ten" running back? I dont think so.

:Broncos:


15 OAK L 19-20 19 42 2.2 8 0 3 39 13.0 21 0 -- --
16 @ PHI L 27-30 9 18 2.0 6 0 3 17 5.7 16T 1 -- --
17 KC L 24-44 14 50 3.6 18 2 3 48 16.0 20 0 -- --

Career Stats more
Season Team Rushing Receiving Fumbles
G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2009 Denver Broncos 16 9 247 947 3.8 36 7 28 213 7.6 27 2 4 4
TOTAL 247 947 3.8 36 7 28 213 7.6 27 2 4 4

I never said Winder was a top 10 RB. Take that in reference.

jhns
05-06-2010, 08:52 PM
Also, I'm not against the Tebow pick. I only said Cutler and Marshall set the franchise back more. I have no opinion of Tebow yet. I haven't really seen him play.

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 08:53 PM
Sammy Winder was good

Sammy Winder never managed to average even 4yds/carry in any given season.

jhns
05-06-2010, 08:56 PM
I said he was a top 10 running back in a year he was 4th in the league in TDs. He made the Pro Bowl. I'm not sure what the argument is?

Archer81
05-06-2010, 08:57 PM
15 OAK L 19-20 19 42 2.2 8 0 3 39 13.0 21 0 -- --
16 @ PHI L 27-30 9 18 2.0 6 0 3 17 5.7 16T 1 -- --
17 KC L 24-44 14 50 3.6 18 2 3 48 16.0 20 0 -- --

Career Stats more
Season Team Rushing Receiving Fumbles
G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2009 Denver Broncos 16 9 247 947 3.8 36 7 28 213 7.6 27 2 4 4
TOTAL 247 947 3.8 36 7 28 213 7.6 27 2 4 4

I never said Winder was a top 10 RB. Take that in reference.


No, Jhns said he was. It exasperates me.

And I never said Knowshon was a top 10 back. So its not a valid comparison.

:Broncos:

broncswin
05-06-2010, 09:00 PM
Also, I'm not against the Tebow pick. I only said Cutler and Marshall set the franchise back more. I have no opinion of Tebow yet. I haven't really seen him play.

jhns, do you think that cutty and marsh had nothing to do with their departures?

jhns
05-06-2010, 09:05 PM
jhns, do you think that cutty and marsh had nothing to do with their departures?

Marshall is actually not a horrible move to me. I could see a lot of teams trading him in our position. The only reason I don't like it is because it follows the Cutler move. That and Marshall is still a special player that did a lot for us.

Cutler was handled like a bunch of rookies would handle something.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-06-2010, 09:11 PM
I can't remember, at any time, McD saying that Tebow is the franchise QB.

It's implied by spending a 1st round pick on him.

McDaniels' job is riding on Tim Tebow now.

colonelbeef
05-06-2010, 09:13 PM
Alright you ****ing thread highjackers.... 1001 views, 124 posts, and not one person has addressed the original question posed in the original thread....

Why the venom from (some of) the national media? Prisco and Baldinger (and to a lesser extent, Kiper and McShay) lost their **** when we drafted Tebow. Why in the world would a well-adjusted, humble kid (according to all reports) inspire such hatred from certain quarters of the media? I'm sincerely flummoxed....

Simple, they think that McDaniels and the Broncos have made some bad moves. It's nothing personal, but if you need to rationalize everything by pretending that most NFL observers have something against the team or city, then go for it.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-06-2010, 09:15 PM
Tebow will have to compete just like everyone else on the team.

Maybe he'll make it maybe he won't, but to compare him with Russel is stupid.

Comparing Cassel's effect on KC with Russel's effect in Oakland would be more accurate.

I agree. It appears at this point that his dedication to Cassel is going to get Pioli fired eventually.

BroncoBuff
05-06-2010, 09:15 PM
jhns is pretty much right on with most of his takes. Most people around here thrive off revisionist history and double talk (espeacially with Cutler).

I also find it funny that because the majority of people want sunshine sprayed up their ass, it becomes a bandwagon thing to hate on him instead having any kind of discourse.

I would have agreed with this, all of it pretty much, until Cutler played so badly last year.

Kinda hard to defend him now.

He'll bounce back in a big way now ... nowhere to go but up. Still, his first season there kinda shut most of us up.

colonelbeef
05-06-2010, 09:15 PM
In one way, I would love to see Tebow suddenly turn out to be the biggest QB steal in the history of the NFL just so I could watch the East Coast press ****ing squirm.

ah yes, the dreaded east coast press.


::shakes fist::

Archer81
05-06-2010, 09:18 PM
I would have agreed with this, all of it pretty much, until Cutler played so badly last year.

Kinda hard to defend him now.

He'll bounce back in a big way now ... nowhere to go but up. Still, his first season there kinda shut most of us up.


Or sideways...its not like Chicago improved their o-line or got Jay his much coveted weapons.

:Broncos:

broncswin
05-06-2010, 09:24 PM
Marshall is actually not a horrible move to me. I could see a lot of teams trading him in our position. The only reason I don't like it is because it follows the Cutler move. That and Marshall is still a special player that did a lot for us.

Cutler was handled like a bunch of rookies would handle something.

I will agree with you on both...cutty was too blame as well...but I do believe that a veteran coach would have tried to handle things better...Marsh just needed to go...the guy was a great talent, but too much of a gamble for us to keep

BowlenBall
05-06-2010, 10:33 PM
Simple, they think that McDaniels and the Broncos have made some bad moves. It's nothing personal, but if you need to rationalize everything by pretending that most NFL observers have something against the team or city, then go for it.

Actually, I think it is personal, in an unprofessional way, with several media members. Here's a sampling:

Pete Prisco (CBS Sports):
Broncos McDaniels Can Kiss Job Goodbye With Tebow Pick (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/13275324/broncos-mcdaniels-can-kiss-job-goodbye-with-tebow-pick?tag=coverlist_active;coverlist_footer)
"Tebow is a fifth-round talent."
"Now they have Saint Timmy to fix things. "
"His rah-rah crap doesn't matter."

Mike Freeman (CBS Sports):
Broncos Will Regret Falling for Tebow's Good Guy Reputation (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/13276708/broncos-will-regret-falling-for-tebows-goodguy-reputation?tag=headlines;other)
"The league is laughing at Denver right now. Other teams are guffawing and mocking them and making Broncos jokes. The countdown until Josh McDaniels gets his ass canned has officially started. Denver wasted a valuable first-round pick on a player who will do nothing for years unless they move Tebow to fullback or make him a missionary and have him snip foreskins. Somewhere, John Elway weeps."

Brian Baldinger (NFL Network):
Southbound and down: Broncos among five teams heading for a fall (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-05-05/southbound-and-down-broncos-among-five-teams-heading-for-fall)
"It's a move that puts the Broncos behind five years."

Oh, and as for anti-Denver bias in the media -- it's real, my friend.

Jamie Dukes (NFL Network):
http://boards.ign.com/football/b5105/191427072/p1/?9
"If the Patriots would've drafted Tebow, it would've made more sense (than Denver drafting him)"

Dedhed
05-06-2010, 10:44 PM
McDaniels' job is riding on Tim Tebow now.

McDaniels' job is riding on whether he wins games, just like every coach in the league.

Steve Sewell
05-06-2010, 11:11 PM
It's implied by spending a 1st round pick on him.

McDaniels' job is riding on Tim Tebow now.

McDaniels' job is riding on him winning football games. And he's got a much longer leash by virtue of working for Pat Bowlen. The way people talk about the Broncos and McD's job status, you'd think that their owner was Dan Snyder or one of the other knee-jerk horrible owners out there.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-06-2010, 11:38 PM
McDaniels' job is riding on him winning football games. And he's got a much longer leash by virtue of working for Pat Bowlen. The way people talk about the Broncos and McD's job status, you'd think that their owner was Dan Snyder or one of the other knee-jerk horrible owners out there.

I have bad news for you. If Tim Tebow doesn't work out, the Broncos won't win games.

About the only way a coach endures a quarterback failure (or three of them) in this league is if he's already sporting rings.

http://jerseysandgear.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Mike-Shanahan.jpg

SonOfLe-loLang
05-06-2010, 11:51 PM
I have bad news for you. If Tim Tebow doesn't work out, the Broncos won't win games.

About the only way a coach endures a quarterback failure (or three of them) in this league is if he's already sporting rings.

http://jerseysandgear.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Mike-Shanahan.jpg

Seriously, its like you don't even watch football. Every single year a few teams that you never expect to perform well, do amazingly well. Plus, you're talking like the broncos were 2-14 last year instead of 8-8. There are tons of ways to win game, i dont understand how it all hinges on tebow.

extralife
05-07-2010, 12:01 AM
No one wins consistently without a consistent pro bowl type of QB. Sure, you bring in a Bill Parcels you can make the playoffs out of nowhere, but year 2 you'll fall back to the pack.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-07-2010, 12:05 AM
Seriously, its like you don't even watch football. Every single year a few teams that you never expect to perform well, do amazingly well. Plus, you're talking like the broncos were 2-14 last year instead of 8-8. There are tons of ways to win game, i dont understand how it all hinges on tebow.

I didn't say whether the Broncos were going to suck or not.

All I said was that McDaniels' fate is tied to Tebow's now.

99 percent chance that if Tebow doesn't work out, neither does McDaniels. Write it down.

Steve Sewell
05-07-2010, 12:10 AM
I have bad news for you. If Tim Tebow doesn't work out, the Broncos won't win games.

About the only way a coach endures a quarterback failure (or three of them) in this league is if he's already sporting rings.

http://jerseysandgear.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Mike-Shanahan.jpg

What if he wins games with another QB?

He did so with a QB that hadn't started a game since high school, surely you are acutely aware of that.

Baba Booey
05-07-2010, 12:13 AM
What a complete ****ing moron.

extralife
05-07-2010, 12:14 AM
What if he wins games with another QB?

He did so with a QB that hadn't started a game since high school, surely you are acutely aware of that.

That QB didn't get him to the playoffs, and he was leading a team coming off 16-0.

Archer81
05-07-2010, 12:16 AM
That QB didn't get him to the playoffs, and he was leading a team coming off 16-0.


So that trumps the work done with Cassel the following year? Simply because the team went 16-0 and followed it up with 11-5?


:Broncos:

Bob's your Information Minister
05-07-2010, 12:17 AM
What if he wins games with another QB?


McDaniels is setting the Broncos up for Tebow to take over in one, maybe two years. There are no more high profile quarterbacks coming into Denver in the next two years.

You're not winning **** with Orton or Quinn and anyone with half a brain knows that. Certainly McDaniels does.

Tebow is your guy. You better hope he pans out.

Baba Booey
05-07-2010, 12:20 AM
The context of my email to this dip****:

Vinny,

Thank the heavens that an NFL franchise has not named you General Manager as of yet.

Sincerely,

***** *****

Archer81
05-07-2010, 12:23 AM
McDaniels is setting the Broncos up for Tebow to take over in one, maybe two years. There are no more high profile quarterbacks coming into Denver in the next two years.

You're not winning **** with Orton or Quinn and anyone with half a brain knows that. Certainly McDaniels does.

Tebow is your guy. You better hope he pans out.


Considering your track record with predictions regarding the Broncos, I am comforted that you saying Denver will not win with Quinn or Orton will be proven false.

And bagging on Denver QBs when your team had to flip a coin between Croyle or Thigpen kind of eviscerates your point.

:Broncos:

Steve Sewell
05-07-2010, 12:29 AM
McDaniels is setting the Broncos up for Tebow to take over in one, maybe two years. There are no more high profile quarterbacks coming into Denver in the next two years.


You know this...how? You do realize that Tebow was taken at the end of the first round, right? Who's to say that a guy like Quinn won't blossom with the Broncos? You're stating your opinion as fact.

BroncoBuff
05-07-2010, 12:34 AM
Seriously, its like you don't even watch football. Every single year a few teams that you never expect to perform well, do amazingly well. Plus, you're talking like the broncos were 2-14 last year instead of 8-8. There are tons of ways to win game, i dont understand how it all hinges on tebow.

It doesn't .... good post.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-07-2010, 12:37 AM
Who's to say that a guy like Quinn won't blossom with the Broncos?

Because McDaniels doesn't give a **** about Quinn.

That's why he drafted Tebow. In the FIRST ROUND of all places. He wants the guy as his franchise quarterback. He's committed to seeing that transformation take place. He's going to do everything in his power to make it happen.

I suppose something shocking could happen and Quinn could throw 30 touchdowns. That's about the only thing keeping Tebow on the bench.

Good luck with that.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-07-2010, 12:44 AM
Here's the question you ought to be asking yourselves:

Why are any of you even concerned about Orton and Quinn at this point?

Why do you care?

Aren't you in love with Tebow?

Archer81
05-07-2010, 12:46 AM
Here's the question you ought to be asking yourselves:

Why are any of you even concerned about Orton and Quinn at this point?

Why do you care?

Aren't you in love with Tebow?


It must suck to be you. So deluded.

I bet you think strippers like you, too.

:Broncos:

Bob's your Information Minister
05-07-2010, 12:49 AM
Here's what none of you will admit:

You are scared to death that the success of your franchise hinges on Tim Tebow right now.

That's why you're still talking about Orton and Quinn.

Archer81
05-07-2010, 12:53 AM
Here's what none of you will admit:

You are scared to death that the success of your franchise hinges on Tim Tebow right now.

That's why you're still talking about Orton and Quinn.


Not scared, lil(haha) clayton. More anticipationed. Have you ever considered the possibility that Tebow might be a great quarterback for the Broncos? I know the prospects of watching the Broncos and Chargers battle for the AFC west for the next decade scares you, considering you have Cassel behind center and the last time the chiefs won a meaningful game you were just a thought in your mother's bloodshot, alcohol soaked eye...

:Broncos:

Bob's your Information Minister
05-07-2010, 01:10 AM
I have absolutely considered the possibility that Tebow might be a great quarterback.

So has your head coach. That's why any other quarterback on the roster is now irrelevant.

Tebow or bust for McDaniels.

footstepsfrom#27
05-07-2010, 01:35 AM
Here's the question you ought to be asking yourselves:

Why are any of you even concerned about Orton and Quinn at this point?

Why do you care?

Aren't you in love with Tebow?
I could care less about Orton, but I have a slight interest in seeing if Quinn somehow magically blosoms here since he was also a top prospect even pretty recently.

I was one of the few in here who wanted Tebow way before the draft and I have no problem thinking that he's projected as a 2012 starter. I think anything earlier might be an unreasonable expectation.

You aluded to Cassel who hadn't started a game since HS but failed to mention he was considered a highly talented QB when he got to USC but he just had the bad luck of being on the same roster as not one, but two Heisman winning QB's so he apparently had talent that McDaniels could work with. On top of that, Cassel was on the roster for the Pats for 3 seasons before he got his chance to start, and he obviously got to learn an NFL offense during that time and develop as a player in this system.

Saying Tebow only gets half that time Cassel got is probably not far off and it's fine with me since I think he's certainly more than twice as talented as Cassel so half the preparation time seems about right. Tebow's got enough measurables and intangibles to justify waiting a couple seasons for him to arrive.

footstepsfrom#27
05-07-2010, 01:39 AM
Here's what none of you will admit:

You are scared to death that the success of your franchise hinges on Tim Tebow right now.

That's why you're still talking about Orton and Quinn.
Yes if there's one thing lacking in here it's discussions about Tebow. :kiddingme

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-07-2010, 07:04 AM
Why? Just... WHY?

Why do you give Boob exactly what it wants by responding to his trolling garbage?

Jesus, people. Ignore. Don't feed the gigantic, man-boobed troll.

Dedhed
05-07-2010, 07:13 AM
I have bad news for you. If Tim Tebow doesn't work out, the Broncos won't win games.

About the only way a coach endures a quarterback failure (or three of them) in this league is if he's already sporting rings.

Like how because Drew Bledsoe didn't work out the Patriots didn't win games?

Bob's your Information Minister
05-07-2010, 07:19 AM
Like how because Drew Bledsoe didn't work out the Patriots didn't win games?

This is a terrible comparison. Drew Bledsoe took the Patriots to the SUPER BOWL.

Dedhed
05-07-2010, 07:22 AM
This is a terrible comparison. Drew Bledsoe took the Patriots to the SUPER BOWL.

So what?

Like how Leinart didn't work out so the Cardinals didn't win games?

Bob's your Information Minister
05-07-2010, 07:28 AM
So what?


Bledsoe worked out. There is room for "worked out" between BUST and SUPER BOWL WINNER.

And Leinart didn't work out. Guess what? DENNY GREEN GOT FIRED. Case closed.

Dedhed
05-07-2010, 07:31 AM
Bledsoe worked out. There is room for "worked out" between BUST and SUPER BOWL WINNER.

And Leinart didn't work out. Guess what? DENNY GREEN GOT FIRED. Case closed.Denny Green didn't win games. Case closed.

TheReverend
05-07-2010, 07:32 AM
Bledsoe worked out. There is room for "worked out" between BUST and SUPER BOWL WINNER.

And Leinart didn't work out. Guess what? DENNY GREEN GOT FIRED. Case closed.

Denny Green did not get fired because of Matt Leinart in any way shape or form.

Paladin
05-07-2010, 07:50 AM
Why? Just... WHY?

Why do you give Boob exactly what it wants by responding to his trolling garbage?

Jesus, people. Ignore. Don't feed the gigantic, man-boobed troll.

YES, PLEASE!!!!



For those of you just waking up, Woody Paige has an article in the Post saying that McD believes that Tebow has the "IT" factor, and believes he will be playing sooner rather than later. I think this counters all the stupidity of Boob the Inforamation Mangler as well as several others.

I am surprised that McD would be quoted so enthusiastically about Tebow since it would seem prudent to more objective, at least for the sake of the integrity of the process and the competition. I don't think being "all in" on Tebow is a big risk, thoiugh.

It is interesting that McD coached an 8-8 season with a QB that was much maligned and derided by Boob and others hereon. I don't know why, but many are deriding McD for going for the QB he sees as being potentially great. Some say Tebow doesn't have the arm strength to be a pro QB. McD tells of his observation of Tebow throwing the ball 60 yards on target. But the biggest idea is that Tebow understands the game. Shanahan thought Quitler has a "10" arm. We found out he has a "6" personality and even less game sense. As I understnd it, McD would probably rate Tebow as an "8+" for arm strength and a "10" for game sense and personality. Know what? That's good enough for me.

But what I think is missing in Boob's taunts is the fact that McD did not neglect the D line or the Oline in this offseason. Very strong improvements there should result in a substantial improvement in gameday performaces, Tebow or not.

No, McD is not just improving the QB play. He is building a team. Stick that up uour craw, Boob, and jiggle it.....

TonyR
05-07-2010, 08:20 AM
Tebow or bust for McDaniels.

Vince Young, who was drafted much higher than Tebow, worked out so well for Jeff Fisher in Tennessee that they benched him for Kerry Collins. And guess what? Jeff Fisher is still the coach of the Titans...

Steve Sewell
05-07-2010, 09:25 AM
not scared, lil(haha) clayton. More anticipationed. Have you ever considered the possibility that tebow might be a great quarterback for the broncos? I know the prospects of watching the broncos and chargers battle for the afc west for the next decade scares you, considering you have cassel behind center and the last time the chiefs won a meaningful game you were just a thought in your mother's bloodshot, alcohol soaked eye...



rofl!

Jason in LA
05-07-2010, 10:53 AM
Could the Tebow pick set the Broncos back 5 years if he doesn't amount to anything? Possibly. It depends how things work out. Lets say that McD is hell bent on making Tebow his QB of the future, no matter what Quinn or Orton do. If Tebow is the project that everybody thinks he is, then he will probably sit for two years. So those two years will be pretty much wasted on Orton or Quinn. Then Tebow comes in, and you know they'll stick with him for a few years to give him a chance to become a big time QB. If he doesn't, well, there's five years down the drain.

Hopefully that won't happen. I'm hoping that Quinn lives up to the potential that he had coming out of college. I have no faith in Orton to be anything more than just average. If Quinn does come in and light it up, will the job still be Tebow's when he is ready? I hope that's not the case. But it will suck because the Broncos would have to pretty much eat a first round draft pick.

One more point, how much time are they willing to give Tebow to become a big time QB? This isn't the '60s or '70s. QBs don't sit for years anymore. A first round pick for a guy who won't contribute for years is not smart.

DenverBrit
05-07-2010, 10:54 AM
Boob, you're clueless as usual.

If Tebow deosn't make it, he will eventually become another afterthought, just like all the other late 1st round busts in the league.

Winning will keep McD around, no matter who the QB is.

It's about the 'team' not just one player.....haven't you heard?

outdoor_miner
05-07-2010, 11:01 AM
One more point, how much time are they willing to give Tebow to become a big time QB? This isn't the '60s or '70s. QBs don't sit for years anymore. A first round pick for a guy who won't contribute for years is not smart.

Jay Cutler was supposed to sit and learn behind Plummer for a year or two... Obviously, it didn't work out that way, but it is not uncommon to draft for the future. Especially with a pick in the back half of the first round. This was not a Top 10 pick we are talking about here...

chex
05-07-2010, 11:05 AM
A first round pick for a guy who won't contribute for years is not smart.

Even if he doesn't start this year, he's going to contribute to the offense in some fashion. He won't just be holding a clipboard.

colonelbeef
05-07-2010, 11:11 AM
Vince Young, who was drafted much higher than Tebow, worked out so well for Jeff Fisher in Tennessee that they benched him for Kerry Collins. And guess what? Jeff Fisher is still the coach of the Titans...

Jeff Fisher has a lot more capital built up with the Titans, and Young was benched to make a point. Collins got hot and they rode it. Vince Young is the starting QB in Tennessee this year.

I do think that the VY comparison is valid though, as far as Tebow goes. Minus all of the sanctimonious god-humping of course. Both are very physically talented, unorthodox college Qbs coming from big programs with a knack for winning games.

NFLBRONCO
05-07-2010, 11:22 AM
I'm not wild about the Tebow pick but, it sets Denver back 5 yrs? I could see if Denver traded next years #1 and #2's to land him maybe but, we didn't so I think it was a risk to try.

Jason in LA
05-07-2010, 11:25 AM
Jay Cutler was supposed to sit and learn behind Plummer for a year or two... Obviously, it didn't work out that way, but it is not uncommon to draft for the future. Especially with a pick in the back half of the first round. This was not a Top 10 pick we are talking about here...

I don't think Shanahan planned on sitting Cutler for two years. Plummer would have had to played lights out to keep Cutler on the bench. And first round picks, even late first round picks, are expected to contribute early. Like I said in my last post, this isn't the '60s or '70s when they sat. First round QBs don't sit for two years. Rivers and Rogers are the only recent exception that comes to mind. Rodgers was behind a HOF QB, and Rivers was behind a guy who's potential HOF career had just taken off. There were great players that kept them on the bench, opposed to Tebow, who may be kept on the bench because he's not ready. In today's NFL you don't spend first round picks on guys who are not ready to play.

Jason in LA
05-07-2010, 11:30 AM
Even if he doesn't start this year, he's going to contribute to the offense in some fashion. He won't just be holding a clipboard.

If he's not a legit QB then I don't see him contributing very much to the offense. This isn't college, and he's not Kordell Stewart (hopefully he's a better QB than Stewart, but I don't see him as a TE/H Back/whatever).

outdoor_miner
05-07-2010, 11:37 AM
I don't think Shanahan planned on sitting Cutler for two years. Plummer would have had to played lights out to keep Cutler on the bench.

You don't think this is a similar situation? If Orton or Quinn don't play well this year, you can be damn sure that Tebow will be playing next year... If they lead the team to the playoffs, then Tebow may have more time.

And first round picks, even late first round picks, are expected to contribute early. Like I said in my last post, this isn't the '60s or '70s when they sat. First round QBs don't sit for two years. Rivers and Rogers are the only recent exception that comes to mind. Rodgers was behind a HOF QB, and Rivers was behind a guy who's potential HOF career had just taken off. There were great players that kept them on the bench, opposed to Tebow, who may be kept on the bench because he's not ready. In today's NFL you don't spend first round picks on guys who are not ready to play.

I don't know, man... Roethlisberger (#11 pick) only started because of injury. Jamarcus (#1 pick, obviously) didn't come in and start from day 1. This is not even mentioning the guys who started, but only did so because they were drafted on totally crappy/rebuilding teams. The recent trend has been a little different (Ryan, Flacco, Sanchez), but I just don't think it's uncommon to give a first round qb a year or two to develop.

Jason in LA
05-07-2010, 12:07 PM
You don't think this is a similar situation? If Orton or Quinn don't play well this year, you can be damn sure that Tebow will be playing next year... If they lead the team to the playoffs, then Tebow may have more time.



I don't know, man... Roethlisberger (#11 pick) only started because of injury. Jamarcus (#1 pick, obviously) didn't come in and start from day 1. This is not even mentioning the guys who started, but only did so because they were drafted on totally crappy/rebuilding teams. The recent trend has been a little different (Ryan, Flacco, Sanchez), but I just don't think it's uncommon to give a first round qb a year or two to develop.

I'd say that Cutler was NFL ready, and Shanahan was just waiting for the right time to put him in. He was done with Plummer. So it was different. It's mostly different because, going by all the reports, Tebow isn't NFL ready. He's a project. Maybe Tebow will prove everybody wrong and show that he is NFL ready. But if that's not the case, then I don't think it was wise to spend a first round pick on him.

As for the other QBs you mentioned, it goes back to my point about being NFL ready. Sure, Roethlisberger may have gotten on the field because of an injury, but he was NFL ready. He probably would have been given the job outright by the end of his rookie year or leading into his second year. The Raiders couldn't wait to get Russell on the field (well, because Al Davis is off his rockers, but the point is that he didn't draft Russell so he could sit for 2 or 3 years).

If the Broncos keep both Quinn and Orton then Tebow won't get a sniff of the field. And he might not get a sniff of the field next year either. That's just not a good sign to think that a QB who is drafted in the first round can't get on the field because he isn't ready.

Drek
05-07-2010, 01:14 PM
If he's not a legit QB then I don't see him contributing very much to the offense. This isn't college, and he's not Kordell Stewart (hopefully he's a better QB than Stewart, but I don't see him as a TE/H Back/whatever).

He's not Kordell Stewart, he's a far better athlete who can make more things happen with the ball in his hands.

He won't be used in a TE/H-Back/WR etc. role. He'll be used in a wildcat type offense which has proven to be effective in today's NFL even when the player taking snaps who isn't a threat to pass (Miami's application of it is an example of this).

Tebow is an elite athlete who might not be at a starting QB level as a passer yet, but is far better than what other teams are employing for wildcat QBs.

In that role he can get on the field from day one and contribute while being groomed into a full time starter at QB.

TonyR
05-07-2010, 01:27 PM
The recent trend has been a little different (Ryan, Flacco, Sanchez), but I just don't think it's uncommon to give a first round qb a year or two to develop.

I don't recall for sure but wasn't Flacco considered a bit of a project, though not to the same degree as Tebow, around draft time? And to a lesser extent Sanchez as well? And both started from day 1 and performed pretty well.

hambone13
05-07-2010, 02:42 PM
Jhiz is the worst poster here. It's not his takes that are his problem. It's when he is wrong he acts like a baby. I hate that. It's ok to be wrong and it takes a man to admit it. Jhiz is an honorless douchebag and he brings down the board. He is a less intellegent lex.

Amen, so says Tebow.

jhns
05-07-2010, 02:48 PM
Amen, so says Tebow.

Jealousy makes you look fat.

hambone13
05-07-2010, 02:49 PM
I would have agreed with this, all of it pretty much, until Cutler played so badly last year.

Kinda hard to defend him now.

He'll bounce back in a big way now ... nowhere to go but up. Still, his first season there kinda shut most of us up.

I couldn't agree more but jnhs's communication skills in writing are pathetic and the whining, sniveling tone of his responses are in his own words..."silly". He's a non-humorous Costanza but I think his heart and his take on the team are frequently on.

WolfpackGuy
05-07-2010, 03:00 PM
Flacco, Sanchez, and Ryan were just asked to be game managers.

It's not like they had to come in and put up a bunch of yards and TD's to win with their defenses and running games.

BroncoBuff
05-07-2010, 03:02 PM
Boob, you're clueless as usual.

If Tebow deosn't make it, he will eventually become another afterthought, just like all the other late 1st round busts in the league.

Winning will keep McD around, no matter who the QB is.

It's about the 'team' not just one player.....haven't you heard?

Yup.

hambone13
05-07-2010, 03:05 PM
Jealousy makes you look fat.

The sad thing is you really meant phat.

TotallyScrewed
05-07-2010, 03:27 PM
I wonder if you were so critical of some of the head scratchers Shanny drafted over the years.

Shanny did far worse than Al Smith more than once.

So are you saying since Shanny is gone, McD should be gone too?

TotallyScrewed
05-07-2010, 03:29 PM
You guys are nuts if you think Orton or Quinn are in the long-term picture at this point.

In two seasons (maybe one) Tim Tebow will take the first snap of the season as your starter. And then either your franchise will be rejuvenated or you're going to spend a couple years in hell before McDaniels is gone.

The Chiefs fan gets "it".

baja
05-07-2010, 03:40 PM
Opinions vary on how much of a reach it was....many, many people questioned the wisdom of trading a future #1 to move up a few slots in the 2nd round of a weak draft though. Still, everything depends on how the player who was "reached for" performs on the field. If he elevates his game and plays well enough that we no longer need the over-the-hill Ty Law... then maybe the trade will be viewed as a "win" for McDaniels. At this point in time, though... Alphonso doesn't look to be "all that"...

So we gave away our 2010 1 pick to move up a few slots in the seconf round is that your story now.

That deal would suck.

Paladin
05-07-2010, 06:05 PM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

Because he just doesn't know.......

Dedhed
05-07-2010, 06:08 PM
If the Broncos keep both Quinn and Orton then Tebow won't get a sniff of the field. And he might not get a sniff of the field next year either. That's just not a good sign to think that a QB who is drafted in the first round can't get on the field because he isn't ready.
This is just complete hyperbole.

I would give it a 100% chance that Tebow sees the field regardless of what happens with Quinn and Orton.

Paladin
05-07-2010, 06:15 PM
There is way too much hype about Tebow since he hasn't even had a practice with the vets. Should there be some modulation of the adoration or condemnation until there is some information and performance evaluation?

Drek
05-07-2010, 06:40 PM
jhns is pretty much right on with most of his takes. Most people around here thrive off revisionist history and double talk (espeacially with Cutler).

I also find it funny that because the majority of people want sunshine sprayed up their ass, it becomes a bandwagon thing to hate on him instead having any kind of discourse.

Just FYI: a portion of the board being eternal optimists does not mean that being a constant pessimist is the "right" take. It just means that you like to argue with people.

I said on this very forum that Cutler was a mediocre QB and his pro-bowl nom was a sham before Shanahan was fired and before Cutler was traded. Had a bunch of people argue with me when I said I'd take Matt Ryan over him and would strongly consider Joe Flacco.

A lot of people on here actually give objective opinions that also happen to be positive.

For example, the hate on Knowshon is absolutely baseless, yet it continues. Guy injured his MCL the first game of pre-season, basically doesn't touch a football from the end of college to opening day, then goes out and puts up the best numbers of any rookie RB and met standards which previously had assured a rookie of getting ROY honors. He didn't because Brent Favruh had a rookie WR he liked to chuck a few big plays to and the media hype won out. Doesn't change that Moreno showed a lot his first year despite many issues around him, and should be poised for a breakout season in 2010.

Same goes for Orton. People actually call the guy a "bad" QB. Wins more than he loses, was just outside the top 10 QBs statistically last year. That in no way is "bad". He's good. Is he good enough to win a title? Probably not unless everything else falls in place, hence why we drafted Tebow. But Orton is an excellent veteran stopgap to get this team competing immediately while Tebow develops.

If Tebow doesn't? Well Orton might surprise, or Quinn could put it together. There is even the long shot that Brandstater breaks through and becomes the stud QB we need.

The entire point of how McDaniels runs this team is that every spot is open for competition. He isn't paying lip service to that concept like Shanahan did in the later years. He genuinely gives the job to the best guy for the job no matter what, and if he doesn't like the level of competition at a spot no matter how much he likes the #1 guy he'll got find some warm bodies who want to fight for it.

Excellent case in point: Mario Haggan and the SILB job. McDaniels loves Haggan. First guy he gave an extension to. He was named a defensive team captain going into last season. He then was a workhorse at SOLB, despite being a natural ILB. When we released Davis McDaniels could've just left well enough alone and let Haggan compete with inexperienced guys like Larsen and Woodyard. Instead he went out and got an experienced 3-4 SILB starter in Akin Ayodele who might now have the inside track to beat out Haggan. No one is above the team so no one player can ever set the team back a year, let alone five years.

DenverBrit
05-07-2010, 06:43 PM
Just FYI: a portion of the board being eternal optimists does not mean that being a constant pessimist is the "right" take. It just means that you like to argue with people.

I said on this very forum that Cutler was a mediocre QB and his pro-bowl nom was a sham before Shanahan was fired and before Cutler was traded. Had a bunch of people argue with me when I said I'd take Matt Ryan over him and would strongly consider Joe Flacco.

A lot of people on here actually give objective opinions that also happen to be positive.

For example, the hate on Knowshon is absolutely baseless, yet it continues. Guy injured his MCL the first game of pre-season, basically doesn't touch a football from the end of college to opening day, then goes out and puts up the best numbers of any rookie RB and met standards which previously had assured a rookie of getting ROY honors. He didn't because Brent Favruh had a rookie WR he liked to chuck a few big plays to and the media hype won out. Doesn't change that Moreno showed a lot his first year despite many issues around him, and should be poised for a breakout season in 2010.

Same goes for Orton. People actually call the guy a "bad" QB. Wins more than he loses, was just outside the top 10 QBs statistically last year. That in no way is "bad". He's good. Is he good enough to win a title? Probably not unless everything else falls in place, hence why we drafted Tebow. But Orton is an excellent veteran stopgap to get this team competing immediately while Tebow develops.

If Tebow doesn't? Well Orton might surprise, or Quinn could put it together. There is even the long shot that Brandstater breaks through and becomes the stud QB we need.

The entire point of how McDaniels runs this team is that every spot is open for competition. He isn't paying lip service to that concept like Shanahan did in the later years. He genuinely gives the job to the best guy for the job no matter what, and if he doesn't like the level of competition at a spot no matter how much he likes the #1 guy he'll got find some warm bodies who want to fight for it.

Excellent case in point: Mario Haggan and the SILB job. McDaniels loves Haggan. First guy he gave an extension to. He was named a defensive team captain going into last season. He then was a workhorse at SOLB, despite being a natural ILB. When we released Davis McDaniels could've just left well enough alone and let Haggan compete with inexperienced guys like Larsen and Woodyard. Instead he went out and got an experienced 3-4 SILB starter in Akin Ayodele who might now have the inside track to beat out Haggan. No one is above the team so no one player can ever set the team back a year, let alone five years.

Good take. :thumbsup:

watermock
05-07-2010, 06:54 PM
Last thing I remember is losing to both KC and JaFatcus..at HOME....then it all went dark...

I do kinda remember Joshie pimping out like we won the super bowl tho...

Br0nc0Buster
05-07-2010, 06:57 PM
Last thing I remember is losing to both KC and JaFatcus..at HOME....then it all went dark...

I do kinda remember Joshie pimping out like we won the super bowl tho...

perhaps you should lay off the booze then

Archer81
05-07-2010, 06:58 PM
Last thing I remember is losing to both KC and JaFatcus..at HOME....then it all went dark...

I do kinda remember Joshie pimping out like we won the super bowl tho...


Yes...because Denver never had embarassing losses at home while Shanahan was head coach.


:Broncos: