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View Full Version : Think Shanahan is bringing in the Goodmans?


TonyR
05-05-2010, 10:46 AM
Redskins revamp scouting department
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on May 5, 2010 12:21 PM ET

The Redskins continue to overhaul their staff as the Mike Shanahan era picks up steam.

Rick Maese of the Washington Post reports that the team said goodbye to Russ Bolinger, their top national scout. John Keim of the Washington Examiner reports that Redskins scout and former player Donnie Warren is also out. It is Warren's birthday today.

Changes in scouting and personnel departments usually come right after the draft and when coaching changes happen, so the moves shouldn't come as a big shock.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/05/redskins-revamp-scouting-department/

Rohirrim
05-05-2010, 10:47 AM
Shanahan must have felt that he missed out on some of the injured players that were available in the draft.

Requiem
05-05-2010, 10:49 AM
They hired Mock.

Los Broncos
05-05-2010, 10:52 AM
they hired mock.

rofl!

baja
05-05-2010, 10:53 AM
Shanahan must have felt that he missed out on some of the injured players that were available in the draft.

He wanted to draft Clarret again but they couldn't find his phone number and rightly so they got fired.

TheReverend
05-05-2010, 10:53 AM
This move has been anticipated in the news for months now and yes, he will. They were absolutely crushing the draft outside of Jarvis

scttgrd
05-05-2010, 10:57 AM
What a novel concept! Wait till after the draft to fire the scouts. That way you don't go into the draft unprepared. Who would do that?

baja
05-05-2010, 11:00 AM
Shanahan is not the GM that may not be his decision to make.

Man-Goblin
05-05-2010, 11:28 AM
Yes. Goodmans have been rumored for months.

Kaylore
05-05-2010, 11:41 AM
That would suck if they're part of a package deal. Big Goodman rocked. Little Goodman sucked.

Smiling Assassin27
05-05-2010, 11:43 AM
Shanahan must have felt that he missed out on some of the injured players that were available in the draft.


I heard on the light rail that he tried to 're-draft' Paul Toviessi last year...

Ray Finkle
05-05-2010, 11:50 AM
That would suck if they're part of a package deal. Big Goodman rocked. Little Goodman sucked.

why do you say that?

ward63
05-05-2010, 11:51 AM
Willie Middlebrooks is on the board!

LonghornBronco
05-05-2010, 11:55 AM
Are the Goodmans working somewhere else now?

UberBroncoMan
05-05-2010, 11:56 AM
Say what you guys want. They tore the draft the **** up 2006 and 2008... and hit on a starting tackle in 2007.

Hell... 3 pro-bowlers in 2006 alone.

Killericon
05-05-2010, 11:56 AM
You'd think Bruce Allen would want his guys...

Kaylore
05-05-2010, 12:03 PM
why do you say that?

Little Goodman wasn't qualified. He got the job as a result of nepotism and the other scouts resented him. He's also why Jim isn't here. When Xanders got the nod over Jeff, Jeff threw a hissy fit and walked out. Days later Jim and Bowlen agreed it would be less awkward if he left too. Jim never even wanted to be a GM.

Ray Finkle
05-05-2010, 12:10 PM
Little Goodman wasn't qualified. He got the job as a result of nepotism and the other scouts resented him. He's also why Jim isn't here. When Xanders got the nod over Jeff, Jeff threw a hissy fit and walked out. Days later Jim and Bowlen agreed it would be less awkward if he left too. Jim never even wanted to be a GM.

wow....I did not know that. I always thought their leaving was based around Cutler....

That One Guy
05-05-2010, 12:11 PM
Sure there were some good picks in there... but before they could even complete their rookie contract, two of those stud guys were on their way out of town for personality reasons.

Sure they hit on Doom in the 4th... but they missed on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders along the way to do it. There's always going to be a good player found here or there but I was never OMG blown away by them.

Man-Goblin
05-05-2010, 12:17 PM
Little Goodman wasn't qualified. He got the job as a result of nepotism and the other scouts resented him. He's also why Jim isn't here. When Xanders got the nod over Jeff, Jeff threw a hissy fit and walked out. Days later Jim and Bowlen agreed it would be less awkward if he left too. Jim never even wanted to be a GM.

I'm having trouble remembering the timeline, but wasn't Xanders promoted to GM after the Goodmans left?

I do remember McDaniels in his introductory press conference saying he was to defer to Jim Goodman on all personel matters. Wouldn't that make Jim Goodman the defacto GM no matter what his title is?

That One Guy
05-05-2010, 12:28 PM
I'm having trouble remembering the timeline, but wasn't Xanders promoted to GM after the Goodmans left?

I do remember McDaniels in his introductory press conference saying he was to defer to Jim Goodman on all personel matters. Wouldn't that make Jim Goodman the defacto GM no matter what his title is?

Everyone was still here and McD reported to the GMs but then Xanders got named headguy and then they left. McD then (presumably) assumed more personnel control and brings us to the current arrangement.

TheReverend
05-05-2010, 12:59 PM
Little Goodman wasn't qualified. He got the job as a result of nepotism and the other scouts resented him. He's also why Jim isn't here. When Xanders got the nod over Jeff, Jeff threw a hissy fit and walked out. Days later Jim and Bowlen agreed it would be less awkward if he left too. Jim never even wanted to be a GM.

Rampant speculation.

"Little Goodman" (Jeff) spent years working for a law firm in the sports agency and regulation field, played wide receiver at Florida and was the scout in charge of the South East for the draft that netted us South Eastern players like Cutler and Marshall before being named the Assistant GM.

Ray Finkle
05-05-2010, 01:27 PM
Rampant speculation.

"Little Goodman" (Jeff) spent years working for a law firm in the sports agency and regulation field, played wide receiver at Florida and was the scout in charge of the South East for the draft that netted us South Eastern players like Cutler and Marshall before being named the Assistant GM.

still doesn't mean he didn't get the promotion because of his dad.....

TheReverend
05-05-2010, 01:33 PM
still doesn't mean he didn't get the promotion because of his dad.....

You're right. It doesn't. It DOES show that he certainly had a great background that certainly qualified him to be an Assistant General Manager. The rest is speculation, unless someone has any actual supporting evidence.

Ray Finkle
05-05-2010, 01:34 PM
You're right. It doesn't. It DOES show that he certainly had a great background that certainly qualified him to be an Assistant General Manager. The rest is speculation, unless someone has any actual supporting evidence.

true but some people that can truly answer that probably wouldn't...

TheReverend
05-05-2010, 01:42 PM
true but some people that can truly answer that probably wouldn't...

Discussion is completely absurd. Follow this "logic":

1. Shanahan generally referred to as totalitarian and that the GM is a figurehead spot that's more of a capologist.

2. Guy with high quality program collegiate playing experience, legal sports background, and in charge of scouting a region where we drafted 2 pro bowlers gets a promotion to Assistant GM.

Wait.. what? I thought GM was a figurehead spot under Shanahan, so Assistant GM would be what? And what WOULD qualify someone for an assistant GM spot if that doesn't? I'm sure his dad being in the organization got his foot in the door, but that doesn't diminish his qualifications...

Sidenote: This wasn't directed at Kaylore, just the generally absurdity of the whole situation. The second people leave/dismissed from the organization, their accomplishments are diminished until it's a no value sum. It's extremely ridiculous.

Irish Stout
05-05-2010, 02:09 PM
If there is more than one Goodman and Shanny is thinking about re-hiring both, would he be hiring the Goodmans or the Goodmen?

Tombstone RJ
05-05-2010, 02:25 PM
Wonder why Shanny hasn't brought in Ted Sundquist...

Ray Finkle
05-05-2010, 02:56 PM
Discussion is completely absurd. Follow this "logic":

1. Shanahan generally referred to as totalitarian and that the GM is a figurehead spot that's more of a capologist.

2. Guy with high quality program collegiate playing experience, legal sports background, and in charge of scouting a region where we drafted 2 pro bowlers gets a promotion to Assistant GM.

Wait.. what? I thought GM was a figurehead spot under Shanahan, so Assistant GM would be what? And what WOULD qualify someone for an assistant GM spot if that doesn't? I'm sure his dad being in the organization got his foot in the door, but that doesn't diminish his qualifications...

Sidenote: This wasn't directed at Kaylore, just the generally absurdity of the whole situation. The second people leave/dismissed from the organization, their accomplishments are diminished until it's a no value sum. It's extremely ridiculous.

not what I meant....I meant the insiders here could probably give some good information but cannot...

colonelbeef
05-05-2010, 06:26 PM
Say what you guys want. They tore the draft the **** up 2006 and 2008... and hit on a starting tackle in 2007.

Hell... 3 pro-bowlers in 2006 alone.

bingo. Not only a starting left tackle, but likely the best LT in the league. Don't let facts get in the way of your simple thinking, Shanahan bashers.

montrose
05-05-2010, 06:35 PM
I find it interesting that, as highly as the Goodman's appear to be thought of, no one has even brought them in for so much as an interview in the year plus since they've been available - through an entire year of scouting the draft which is supposedly their strength.

Kaylore
05-05-2010, 06:49 PM
Rampant speculation.


No it's true.

TonyR
05-05-2010, 07:14 PM
bingo. Not only a starting left tackle, but likely the best LT in the league. Don't let facts get in the way of your simple thinking, Shanahan bashers.

Not trying to take anything away from the Goodmans who did a nice job drafting overall but the Clady pick was a no brainer. If you want to talk up the Goodmans I'd go with Marshall, Dumervil, Kuper, and Harris as their biggest hits.

elsid13
05-05-2010, 08:28 PM
Little Goodman wasn't qualified. He got the job as a result of nepotism and the other scouts resented him. He's also why Jim isn't here. When Xanders got the nod over Jeff, Jeff threw a hissy fit and walked out. Days later Jim and Bowlen agreed it would be less awkward if he left too. Jim never even wanted to be a GM.

Thank god, Shanahan didn't make him the QB coach. Let face the fact that it is very hard to get in the NFL coaching or personal ranks if you aren't related to someone or have close family friend. It very closed community. So lets not try to make it out like Shanahan was any different then any other NFL coach out there.

BTW, our current GM (Xanders) had very similar background when he was promoted. Lots of non-personnel experience and very little indication he was ready to be a GM.

TheReverend
05-05-2010, 08:30 PM
I find it interesting that, as highly as the Goodman's appear to be thought of, no one has even brought them in for so much as an interview in the year plus since they've been available - through an entire year of scouting the draft which is supposedly their strength.

I dont.

Last year when Mike got fired, we found out Bowlen has been generous enough to pay released staff at least another year of their contract.

Why go out for new work when you can get paid the same or better to recharge and wait for your former boss to regain employment so you can go back to work for him?

R8R H8R
05-05-2010, 08:39 PM
Say what you guys want. They tore the draft the **** up 2006 and 2008... and hit on a starting tackle in 2007.

Hell... 3 pro-bowlers in 2006 alone.

Sorry, but Ted Sundquist was still GM until 3/12/2008. Therefore, he gets the credit for the 2006 draft & Harris in 2007. But he also gets the blame for Moss.

uplink
05-05-2010, 08:46 PM
If Shanny is copying Josh then he would not bring in the goodmans

montrose
05-05-2010, 09:13 PM
I dont.

Last year when Mike got fired, we found out Bowlen has been generous enough to pay released staff at least another year of their contract.

Why go out for new work when you can get paid the same or better to recharge and wait for your former boss to regain employment so you can go back to work for him?

That makes sense, although I am suprised we didn't hear a wink of any team even having interest in them - Assuming they are as highly thought of around the league as they are with some Broncos fans. To me, the three drafts Shanahan said they should get credit for (06, 07, 08) yielded 5 studs (Marshall, Doom, Kuper, Harris, Clady), 4 solid picks (Scheffler, Larsen, Barrett, Hillis) and 10 misses (Cutler, Hixon, Eslinger, Moss, Crowder, Thomas, Lichtensteiger, JMFW, Torain, Powell). Everyone's going to have their opinion on specific players, but the Goodman's record didn't overwhelm me. Not terrible, but not awesome either - imo.

SoCalBronco
05-05-2010, 09:15 PM
I find it interesting that, as highly as the Goodman's appear to be thought of, no one has even brought them in for so much as an interview in the year plus since they've been available - through an entire year of scouting the draft which is supposedly their strength.

I doubt the younger Goodman is well thought of. I suspect Jim Goodman, however, is probably well thought of..at least in some places in the league. He might be suffering from some age discrimination, although that's obviously speculative.

Mr. Trout
05-05-2010, 09:19 PM
Willie Middlebrooks is on the board!

f'ing Middlebrooks...epic fail. and everyone kept saying oh just give him some time. geez

Mr. Trout
05-05-2010, 09:19 PM
f'ing Middlebrooks...epic fail. and everyone kept saying oh just give him some time. geez

Jarvis Moss, same thing...epic turd sandwich.

SoCalBronco
05-05-2010, 09:24 PM
BTW, our current GM (Xanders) had very similar background when he was promoted. Lots of non-personnel experience and very little indication he was ready to be a GM.

There are certain things that Xanders is really, really good at.

http://anotherbeautifulday.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/pizzas.jpg

http://godlessons.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/coffee-pot.jpg

montrose
05-05-2010, 09:30 PM
There are certain things that Xanders is really, really good at.

http://anotherbeautifulday.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/pizzas.jpg

http://godlessons.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/coffee-pot.jpg

McD fears Xanders.

Tombstone RJ
05-05-2010, 09:45 PM
There are certain things that Xanders is really, really good at.

http://anotherbeautifulday.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/pizzas.jpg

http://godlessons.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/coffee-pot.jpg

:rofl:

and the money

ELEVATION
05-06-2010, 03:44 AM
Say what you guys want. They tore the draft the **** up 2006 and 2008... and hit on a starting tackle in 2007.

Hell... 3 pro-bowlers in 2006 alone.

who's the third?????

cutler made it and marshall made it......

ELEVATION
05-06-2010, 03:47 AM
That makes sense, although I am suprised we didn't hear a wink of any team even having interest in them - Assuming they are as highly thought of around the league as they are with some Broncos fans. To me, the three drafts Shanahan said they should get credit for (06, 07, 08) yielded 5 studs (Marshall, Doom, Kuper, Harris, Clady), 4 solid picks (Scheffler, Larsen, Barrett, Hillis) and 10 misses (Cutler, Hixon, Eslinger, Moss, Crowder, Thomas, Lichtensteiger, JMFW, Torain, Powell). Everyone's going to have their opinion on specific players, but the Goodman's record didn't overwhelm me. Not terrible, but not awesome either - imo.

i get the cutler ding but cutler is a miss and josh barrett and hillis are solid???? nope dont buy that at all.....barrett is a special teamer, and hillis wasnt near as godo as bronco fans made him out to be.....he couldnt even block or play his position....he got beat out by a LB....and seven rb's before he got his shot at running the ball.....

TheReverend
05-06-2010, 05:59 AM
who's the third?????

cutler made it and marshall made it......

Elvis bro

TheReverend
05-06-2010, 06:01 AM
That makes sense, although I am suprised we didn't hear a wink of any team even having interest in them - Assuming they are as highly thought of around the league as they are with some Broncos fans. To me, the three drafts Shanahan said they should get credit for (06, 07, 08) yielded 5 studs (Marshall, Doom, Kuper, Harris, Clady), 4 solid picks (Scheffler, Larsen, Barrett, Hillis) and 10 misses (Cutler, Hixon, Eslinger, Moss, Crowder, Thomas, Lichtensteiger, JMFW, Torain, Powell). Everyone's going to have their opinion on specific players, but the Goodman's record didn't overwhelm me. Not terrible, but not awesome either - imo.

4 guys in your "misses" column have more starting experience than everyone in your "solid" category and one is a pro-bowler that brought Denver over 2x the investment return.

Which leads me to ask, what exactly is your judgment criteria?

TonyR
05-06-2010, 07:31 AM
Not terrible, but not awesome either - imo.

Yup, in hindsight I don't think the Goodmans are as great as some make them out to be. A good job overall but their D picks outside of Doom have been particularly mediocre, and that's being generous. But compared to how awful the previous several years of drafting was they were a huge improvement.

Steve Sewell
05-06-2010, 08:31 AM
shanahan must have felt that he missed out on some of the injured players that were available in the draft.

rofl

Cito Pelon
05-06-2010, 08:32 AM
Well, I believe 18 of the 20 picks from 2006-2008 are still in the league.

8 of those 18 might be on the bubble this year or next if they don't step it up some. Maybe 4 of those 8 will get picked up by another team if they get cut by their current team.

So that was a pretty good stretch of drafting.

Steve Sewell
05-06-2010, 08:33 AM
Are the Goodmans working somewhere else now?

They are close to a cure for cancer, last I heard.

Cito Pelon
05-06-2010, 08:42 AM
Yup, in hindsight I don't think the Goodmans are as great as some make them out to be. A good job overall but their D picks outside of Doom have been particularly mediocre, and that's being generous. But compared to how awful the previous several years of drafting was they were a huge improvement.

Yeah, just looking at the D picks, those weren't so good.

I'm curious how much input the Goodman's had on FA's, and really in actually making the draft choices. As scouts, certainly they presented the reports and their opinion had some weight in the final decision.

If Shanny wants to build his team his way, bring in guys he's familiar with it's fine with me. Same thing I said about McDaniels.

TheReverend
05-06-2010, 09:28 AM
Yeah, just looking at the D picks, those weren't so good.

I'm curious how much input the Goodman's had on FA's, and really in actually making the draft choices. As scouts, certainly they presented the reports and their opinion had some weight in the final decision.

If Shanny wants to build his team his way, bring in guys he's familiar with it's fine with me. Same thing I said about McDaniels.

I'll be happy to disagree with this too. Out of those draft selections, Moss and Williams are the only two flat out "misses" (and that's 2-3 years into their professional careers). Crowder is a starter in TB and the rest have good to outstanding resumes in relationship to their draft selection.

1st round:

Jarvis Moss (miss. might contribute some of that to injury, but miss none-the-less)

2nd round:

Tim Crowder (medium. worked his way into the starting line-up of a new system last season and added 3.5 sacks)

4th round:

Elvis Dumervil (outstanding hit and possesses arguably the best defensive resume of ANY player taken that year)
Marcus Thomas (21 starts in 2 seasons of a 4-3 defense, rotational player in last years 3-4 who put up better numbers than ANY other non-starter DL)
Jack Williams (miss... although it's funny that he has identical production to first round waste Alphonso Smith)

7th round:

Josh Barrett (Mainly a special teams contributor who has 3 starts and a pick as a rookie under his belt. Great value in relation to his draft selection)

Cito Pelon
05-06-2010, 09:58 AM
I'll be happy to disagree with this too. Out of those draft selections, Moss and Williams are the only two flat out "misses" (and that's 2-3 years into their professional careers). Crowder is a starter in TB and the rest have good to outstanding resumes in relationship to their draft selection.

1st round:

Jarvis Moss (miss. might contribute some of that to injury, but miss none-the-less)

2nd round:

Tim Crowder (medium. worked his way into the starting line-up of a new system last season and added 3.5 sacks)

4th round:

Elvis Dumervil (outstanding hit and possesses arguably the best defensive resume of ANY player taken that year)
Marcus Thomas (21 starts in 2 seasons of a 4-3 defense, rotational player in last years 3-4 who put up better numbers than ANY other non-starter DL)
Jack Williams (miss... although it's funny that he has identical production to first round waste Alphonso Smith)

7th round:

Josh Barrett (Mainly a special teams contributor who has 3 starts and a pick as a rookie under his belt. Great value in relation to his draft selection)

You gotta add in a 3rd rounder given up for Moss, and Carlton Powell, so that negates some the impact of the total D draftees in those years.

TheReverend
05-06-2010, 10:24 AM
You gotta add in a 3rd rounder given up for Moss, and Carlton Powell, so that negates some the impact of the total D draftees in those years.

Ah, yes, totally forgot about Carlton Powell, nice catch. Adding in that 3rd rounder to move up for Moss is also fair, imo. I also forgot to add in Spencer Larsen.

The point remains... most of these guys have been midround to end of the draft selections, and have contributed accordingly or even above their draft status. Hell, looking at the Jared Allen trade we can assume Elvis alone is worth 2 first round draft picks.

Btw... take a look at the 2007 draft. Outside of Pat Willis and Darrelle Revis (both selected before our first pick), it's pretty damn bereft of defensive talent. We had a shot at good players like Jon Beason, Aaron Ross, Michael Griffin and Meriweather, but what do all of these guys have in common? None are defensive linemen... top DE prospects were Gaines Adams (traded), Jamaal Anderson (busted so bad he moved to DT last year) and Jarvis. 2008 was an even worse year.

That doesn't excuse the selection. Blame them for the misses by all means, but minimizing the accomplishments is just as stupid as making excuses for the failures.

montrose
05-06-2010, 10:44 AM
4 guys in your "misses" column have more starting experience than everyone in your "solid" category and one is a pro-bowler that brought Denver over 2x the investment return.

Which leads me to ask, what exactly is your judgment criteria?

Pretty much what the guy contributed to the team based on where he was drafted and what his expectations were. Barrett was a 7th rounder we hoped would be a solid backup and special teamer, which he is. Same goes for Larsen who was a 6th rounder. Hillis was a 7th rounder who turned out to be god in shoulder pads. Among the misses, I put Jay there because he was drafted in the upper half of the 1st round to be our franchise QB for the next decade which he didn't turn out to be. I thought about moving him to the solid category because of the return we got, but considering I didn't think he improved at the rate I was hoping while here and he was god awful in Chicago last year - I went with the miss category. The other misses did nothing for our team, regardless of where they were selected.

TheReverend
05-06-2010, 10:50 AM
Pretty much what the guy contributed to the team based on where he was drafted and what his expectations were. Barrett was a 7th rounder we hoped would be a solid backup and special teamer, which he is. Same goes for Larsen who was a 6th rounder. Hillis was a 7th rounder who turned out to be god in shoulder pads. Among the misses, I put Jay there because he was drafted in the upper half of the 1st round to be our franchise QB for the next decade which he didn't turn out to be. I thought about moving him to the solid category because of the return we got, but considering I didn't think he improved at the rate I was hoping while here and he was god awful in Chicago last year - I went with the miss category. The other misses did nothing for our team, regardless of where they were selected.

By this logic, every defensive player selected last year is a miss (and that sample size isn't much smaller than the other guys you listed as misses).

Kaylore
05-06-2010, 10:56 AM
Btw... take a look at the 2007 draft. Outside of Pat Willis and Darrelle Revis (both selected before our first pick), it's pretty damn bereft of defensive talent. We had a shot at good players like Jon Beason, Aaron Ross, Michael Griffin and Meriweather, but what do all of these guys have in common? None are defensive linemen... top DE prospects were Gaines Adams (traded), Jamaal Anderson (busted so bad he moved to DT last year) and Jarvis. 2008 was an even worse year.
That's a fair point. If the entire class sucked, it's not the GM's fault (See George Foster's class) Also remember we were targeting Timmons.

Still, we could have used Meriweather. Boy I got that one wrong. I thought he would suck.

montrose
05-06-2010, 10:58 AM
By this logic, every defensive player selected last year is a miss (and that sample size isn't much smaller than the other guys you listed as misses).

I agree, but I am interested to see what kind of progress they make in year two but that is certainly valid.

TheReverend
05-06-2010, 10:58 AM
That's a fair point. If the entire class sucked, it's not the GM's fault (See George Foster's class) Also remember we were targeting Timmons.

Still, we could have used Meriweather. Boy I got that one wrong. I thought he would suck.

Beason would be more valuable here imo.

Kaylore
05-06-2010, 11:00 AM
Pretty much what the guy contributed to the team based on where he was drafted and what his expectations were. Barrett was a 7th rounder we hoped would be a solid backup and special teamer, which he is. Same goes for Larsen who was a 6th rounder. Hillis was a 7th rounder who turned out to be god in shoulder pads. Among the misses, I put Jay there because he was drafted in the upper half of the 1st round to be our franchise QB for the next decade which he didn't turn out to be. I thought about moving him to the solid category because of the return we got, but considering I didn't think he improved at the rate I was hoping while here and he was god awful in Chicago last year - I went with the miss category. The other misses did nothing for our team, regardless of where they were selected.
I think if you're using "helped this franchise" as your criteria, you have to elevate Cutler above miss purely for the fact he started for us and wasn't completely worthless. Even if you are putting what we got for him in a trade in another category, I think that has some weight on things. If nothing at least factor in what value those picks we traded for equated to on the team and then calculate Cutler's value that way.:D

Kaylore
05-06-2010, 11:02 AM
Beason would be more valuable here imo.

Right now, yes. But imagine Meriweather and Dawkins in the secondary?

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5056/1239788892jizzinmypants.gif

Cito Pelon
05-06-2010, 11:12 AM
Ah, yes, totally forgot about Carlton Powell, nice catch. Adding in that 3rd rounder to move up for Moss is also fair, imo. I also forgot to add in Spencer Larsen.

The point remains... most of these guys have been midround to end of the draft selections, and have contributed accordingly or even above their draft status. Hell, looking at the Jared Allen trade we can assume Elvis alone is worth 2 first round draft picks.

Btw... take a look at the 2007 draft. Outside of Pat Willis and Darrelle Revis (both selected before our first pick), it's pretty damn bereft of defensive talent. We had a shot at good players like Jon Beason, Aaron Ross, Michael Griffin and Meriweather, but what do all of these guys have in common? None are defensive linemen... top DE prospects were Gaines Adams (traded), Jamaal Anderson (busted so bad he moved to DT last year) and Jarvis. 2008 was an even worse year.

That doesn't excuse the selection. Blame them for the misses by all means, but minimizing the accomplishments is just as stupid as making excuses for the failures.

Yeah, Larsen has to be added in. But you gotta figure in also taking a flyer on a mid-late rounder that pays off doesn't equate to spending high rounders that don't pay off.

Also, David Harris was right there for Denver in 2007 to grab.

Always gonna be a good argument about what could have been. I wonder to this day what the 2007 draft would have looked like if Denver would have signed Patrick Kerney in FA (remember, Denver went after Kerney bigtime after bringing in Jim Bates as DC guru, but Kerney signed with Seattle). I also wonder if Shanahan & Jim Bates would still be around if that one signing - the Kerney signing - would have happened. The entire subsequent history of the franchise might have been very much different.

TheReverend
05-06-2010, 11:15 AM
Right now, yes. But imagine Meriweather and Dawkins in the secondary?

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5056/1239788892jizzinmypants.gif

Actually with Meriweather's range, we could probably afford to keep Dawkins on the field and just run more cover 3 looks in passing situations, so you have solid point for sure.

But I still like Beason more

Cito Pelon
05-06-2010, 11:20 AM
That's a fair point. If the entire class sucked, it's not the GM's fault (See George Foster's class) Also remember we were targeting Timmons.

Still, we could have used Meriweather. Boy I got that one wrong. I thought he would suck.

The Broncs had Justin Harrell targeted also in 2007 in round one? Supposedly?

Cito Pelon
05-06-2010, 11:30 AM
Beason would be more valuable here imo.

Lord, Beason would have been a good one. The Broncs might have drafted him if they would have signed Kerney in FA. I think the Broncs might have gone after an LB early in the 2007 draft if they would have signed Kerney, but instead they went after two DL guys with the first two picks. Traded a 3rd to move up for Jarvis. These what might have been scenarios are always fun.

randomtask
05-06-2010, 11:42 AM
bingo. Not only a starting left tackle, but likely the best LT in the league. Don't let facts get in the way of your simple thinking, Shanahan bashers.

he's talking about ryan harris in the 2007 draft