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View Full Version : Interesting Moreno tidbit from Peter King


The Joker
05-05-2010, 09:27 AM
Lifted from here if you want to read the rest of the article.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/05/02/offseason/2.html

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Sneak Preview of the Must-Have Book Dept.: I always love Football Outsiders Almanac, in which Aaron Schatz and his footballoutsiders.com brethren attack stats and delve into gametape like few others can. (Football Outsiders Almanac 2010 is due in stores in July, by the way.) But the FO crew has just finished its annual breakdown of tackles broken and tackles missed, and two of the numbers that jumped out at me belonged to young turks Percy Harvin and Ray Rice. Harvin led all receivers in 2009 by a wide margin with 25 tackles broken (Wes Welker was next with 16). Here's the top 10 running backs in tackles broken in 2009:

1. Chris Johnson, Tennessee, 61
2. Ray Rice, Baltimore, 57
3. Adrian Peterson, Minnesota, 56.
4. Maurice Jones-Drew, Jacksonville, 52
5. Steven Jackson, St. Louis, 50
6. Jonathan Stewart, Carolina, 46
7. DeAngelo Williams, Carolina, 40
7. Rashard Mendenhall, Pittsburgh, 40
9. Fred Jackson, Buffalo, 35
10. Knowshon Moreno, Denver, 33

A broken tackle, as defined by Football Outsiders, is either a play in which the defender has the ballcarrier wrapped up -- or a play in which the ballcarrier fakes a defender out of his jock. Subjective, but you get the point. It's a good measure of hard runners and elusive runners, at the same time.

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Considering the guy had injury problems early in the year and his offensive line went to pieces late in the season, making the top 10 in terms of broken tackles has to be considered quite a good achievement from Knowshon. Certainly should put to bed the notion that he's slow and can't make anybody miss.

If he stays healthy this year I'm expecting some good things. I don't expect he'll ever be the kind of guy who'll take over a game like Peterson or Chris Johnson can, but he'll be a guy who can get the tough yards in 3rd and short and help us move the chains when we need to. Also he's a very good receiver out of the backfield which is very handy in our shotgun based system.

I hope he can take his blocking up a notch, he was erratic at times last year I thought. But one of his strengths coming out of college was his blocking, hopefully being more comfortable in the system will help.

tsiguy96
05-05-2010, 09:29 AM
most of those broken tackles were 3 yards i the backfield to get back to the LOS. hence the reason why mcdaniels drafted 3 interior lineman.

Requiem
05-05-2010, 09:30 AM
I have no doubts that Moreno can improve from last year. The upgrades to our offensive line are sentiments towards the displeasure from the play on the interior last year. GO BRONCOS. GO MORENO.

epicSocialism4tw
05-05-2010, 09:31 AM
Knowshon needs that second-level vision. Hopefully a years worth of experience will give him what he needs to improve that aspect.

First thing I noticed on that list was Ray Rice. He's a real threat to any defense.

TonyR
05-05-2010, 09:38 AM
Ray Rice.

The Ravens really know how to evaluate talent and draft, that's for sure. And let's hope their reported interest in Thomas means we found ourselves a keeper.

OrangeCrush2724
05-05-2010, 09:38 AM
I think his holdout last year hurt him a lot. This year, he will be a threat.

Cool Breeze
05-05-2010, 09:39 AM
Heres to more broken tackles this year!

Rabb
05-05-2010, 09:43 AM
I think his holdout last year hurt him a lot. This year, he will be a threat.

I agree

he had a good year actually for a rookie, yeah he made some mistakes but the kid is a talent

I sometimes wonder if people are so hard on him and Phonz because of how they were drafted versus the actual players

PRBronco
05-05-2010, 09:44 AM
These numbers must be wrong, mock said Knowshon is slow and fat. Unless....
No, these numbers must be wrong.

Rabb
05-05-2010, 09:46 AM
These numbers must be wrong, mock said Knowshon is slow and fat. Unless....
No, these numbers must be wrong.

mock will argue that if he wasn't so slow people wouldn't be tackling him

:~ohyah!:

Bronco Yoda
05-05-2010, 09:48 AM
I'm really rooting for Moreno but he's going to really have to up his game. Hopefully he'll get more comfortable with the new running system. I thought he ran better last year in the ZBS.

The Joker
05-05-2010, 09:48 AM
Slowshon was on the index card.

100 names, but at what cost?

Quinn in the second?

Buy a clue.

Beware the painted man.

9-7 with the schedule.

Night approaches, soon they will come.

Kaylore
05-05-2010, 09:49 AM
most of those broken tackles were 3 yards i the backfield to get back to the LOS. hence the reason why mcdaniels drafted 3 interior lineman.

This.

Kaylore
05-05-2010, 09:49 AM
Slowshon was on the index card.

100 names, but at what cost?

Quinn in the second?

Buy a clue.

Beware the painted man.

9-7 with the schedule.

Night approaches, soon they will come.

Ha! Well done.

TheChamp24
05-05-2010, 09:51 AM
If Knowshon can turn into a Curtis Martin for us, awesome. We don't need an Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson.

Cool Breeze
05-05-2010, 09:53 AM
Slowshon was on the index card.

100 names, but at what cost?

Quinn in the second?

Buy a clue.

Beware the painted man.

9-7 with the schedule.

Night approaches, soon they will come.



Mock is that you?

Rabb
05-05-2010, 09:53 AM
If Knowshon can turn into a Curtis Martin for us, awesome. We don't need an Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson.

yeah that would suck Uhh

misturanderson
05-05-2010, 10:13 AM
Slowshon was on the index card.

100 names, but at what cost?

Quinn in the second?

Buy a clue.

Beware the painted man.

9-7 with the schedule.

Night approaches, soon they will come.

Close, but I feel the lack of misspellings and poor punctuation really takes away from the desired effect.

snowspot66
05-05-2010, 10:21 AM
yeah that would suck Uhh

Doesn't mean we wouldn't love to have one. But there are only two of them and they haven't exactly been required for Super Bowls these past years.

HILife
05-05-2010, 10:27 AM
Slowshon was on the index card.

100 names, but at what cost?

Quinn in the second?

Buy a clue.

Beware the painted man.

9-7 with the schedule.

Night approaches, soon they will come.

:spit::spit:

Rabb
05-05-2010, 10:29 AM
Doesn't mean we wouldn't love to have one. But there are only two of them and they haven't exactly been required for Super Bowls these past years.

I get your point, but saying you don't need an impact player like either of them is just silly

it's settling

Popps
05-05-2010, 10:42 AM
One of the more idiotic theories the Mopey Mafia ran around here was that Moreno was "soft." Watch his highlights, and you realize how stupid that is...

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/92owAaBGf_A&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/92owAaBGf_A&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Get the kid some room to run this year and he'll bust off 1400 yards.

baja
05-05-2010, 10:58 AM
most of those broken tackles were 3 yards i the backfield to get back to the LOS. hence the reason why mcdaniels drafted 3 interior lineman.


Which is the hardest area of the field to break tackles so this is a positive.

Dedhed
05-05-2010, 11:08 AM
Knowshon needs that second-level vision.
It's hard to see down the road in a rain storm when your windshield wipers don't work.

BlaK-Argentina
05-05-2010, 11:17 AM
One of the more idiotic theories the Mopey Mafia ran around here was that Moreno was "soft." Watch his highlights, and you realize how stupid that is...

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/92owAaBGf_A&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/92owAaBGf_A&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Get the kid some room to run this year and he'll bust off 1400 yards.

He's gonna tear it up this year IMO. He's a tough SOB I just hope we have someone that can complement him. I love Buck but he's going to go down at some point. I have no idea about Arrington.

Requiem
05-05-2010, 11:29 AM
I'm just bummed we didn't get to draft a compliment for him, I'm really surprised we passed up on Dwyer, must have not liked him.

That One Guy
05-05-2010, 11:57 AM
Those stats can be misleading though. Anyone remember when DJ went to MLB and rocked in tackles? Well.. our D still sucked, it just turned out that our DTs sucked so bad, the MLB had a lot of cleanup work to do. He had a lot of tackles but they were after decent gains and plenty of botched plays. It was just a matter of opportunities.

This could be the case for Moreno. So what if he broke 30 tackles, he could've gotten shoestring tackled just as many times. Chris Johnson leads the pack but he also touched the ball over 400 times last year if you include receptions. Without a percentage to make this comparable, there's no way to take anything from those stats.

Gob
05-05-2010, 11:57 AM
Sneak Preview of the Must-Have Book Dept.: I always love Football Outsiders Almanac, in which Aaron Schatz and his footballoutsiders.com brethren attack stats and delve into gametape like few others can. (Football Outsiders Almanac 2010 is due in stores in July, by the way.) But the FO crew has just finished its annual breakdown of tackles broken and tackles missed, and two of the numbers that jumped out at me belonged to young turks Percy Harvin and Ray Rice. Harvin led all receivers in 2009 by a wide margin with 25 tackles broken (Wes Welker was next with 16). Here's the top 10 running backs in tackles broken in 2009:

1. Chris Johnson, Tennessee, 61
2. Ray Rice, Baltimore, 57
3. Adrian Peterson, Minnesota, 56.
4. Maurice Jones-Drew, Jacksonville, 52
5. Steven Jackson, St. Louis, 50
6. Jonathan Stewart, Carolina, 46
7. DeAngelo Williams, Carolina, 40
7. Rashard Mendenhall, Pittsburgh, 40
9. Fred Jackson, Buffalo, 35
10. Knowshon Moreno, Denver, 33




This list makes Ray Rice, Jonathan Stewart, and DeAngelo Williams look like they are unusually good at breaking tackles. Everyone else is ranked basically the same as they are in total carries.

Edit: That One Guy beat me to it.

joe9999
05-05-2010, 02:30 PM
Those stats can be misleading though. Anyone remember when DJ went to MLB and rocked in tackles? Well.. our D still sucked, it just turned out that our DTs sucked so bad, the MLB had a lot of cleanup work to do. He had a lot of tackles but they were after decent gains and plenty of botched plays. It was just a matter of opportunities.

This could be the case for Moreno. So what if he broke 30 tackles, he could've gotten shoestring tackled just as many times. Chris Johnson leads the pack but he also touched the ball over 400 times last year if you include receptions. Without a percentage to make this comparable, there's no way to take anything from those stats.

Biased stat manipulation strikes again.

_Oro_
05-05-2010, 03:10 PM
All we need is some MFIN normalization.

montrose
05-05-2010, 03:57 PM
He was drafted by McD and Xanders, therefore he sucks. And considering we just gave away the best back the league's ever seen for a bust QB - yuck.