Have Aliens visited Earth

[robbieopperude]

80 percent believe that somewhere out there Aliens exist in some form.
Now debate on whether they have visited Earth.

[robbieopperude]

Reason 1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_Incident

The Roswell UFO Incident was the alleged recovery of extra-terrestrial debris, including alien corpses, from an object which crashed near Roswell, New Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell,_New_Mexico), USA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA), in July 1947. Since the late 1970s the incident has been the subject of intense controversy and the subject of conspiracy theories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory) as to the true nature of the object which crashed. The United States military (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military) maintains that what was actually recovered was debris from an experimental high-altitude surveillance balloon belonging to a classified program named "Mogul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul)"<sup id="cite_ref-0" class="reference">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_Incident#cite_note-0)</sup>; however, many UFO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO) proponents maintain that in fact a crashed alien craft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_life) and bodies were recovered, and that the military then engaged in a cover up. The incident has turned into a widely known pop culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_culture) phenomenon, making the name Roswell synonymous with UFOs. It ranks as one of the most publicized and controversial alleged UFO incidents.<sup id="cite_ref-ARoswellRequiem_1-0" class="reference">[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_Incident#cite_note-ARoswellRequiem-1)</sup>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RoswellDailyRecordJuly8,1947.jpg

[tsiguy96]

no way, universe is too big.

but given the shear size of the universe, hundreds of trillions of planets, to straight say that not a single one of them has life is silly. we are unique. not THAT unique.

[Quoydogs]

I don't see how, I mean I no there are a lot of people that claim to have seen them but there descriptions are all different. But who knows really. Maybe they are misquotes?

[Swedish Extrovert]

No.

I would say mathematically impossible, but there is a non-empirical element to the universe, and I think it would be possible.

[UberBroncoMan]

In the future - please don't add stupid options that distort the poll...

Such as (I can't remember 3 hours or I've been probed).

:P

I say NO - mathematically impossible, btw. Not just mathematically but scientifically as well unless they are immune to radiation or have absolutely absurd technology that can block nanoparticles.

Also, dammit OP. Again with a non-public poll! ROFL!

[robbieopperude]

In the future - please don't add stupid options that distort the poll...

Such as (I can't remember 3 hours or I've been probed).

:P

I say NO - mathematically impossible, btw. Not just mathematically but scientifically as well unless they are immune to radiation or have absolutely absurd technology that can block nanoparticles.

Also, dammit OP. Again with a non-public poll! ROFL!

I like to protect people, especially when this discussion can also be deemed religious.

[robbieopperude]

I know that it is in peoples nature to want to believe. I guess the biggest reason why I believe in them visiting is because so very many people have said they exist. Not just the average joe but high ranking officials in all parts of the military have claimed to saw a UFO in all parts of the world. Even people in Nasa claim this.

[UberBroncoMan]

I like to protect people, especially when this discussion can also be deemed religious.

You act like it's something to be ashamed or embarrassed of lol. Even so. Please no more stupid options. Almost as many people can't remember as those who believe aliens have visited.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

My guess is no, though im not sure how its mathematically impossible. If a civilization has been around much longer than ours, and developed at a much more rapid pace, i suppose its possible. It would involve a ton of **** we can't possibly comprehend though.

[RonDaChamp24]

Don't believe in Aliens. Don't think they've visited here if there is though.

[baja]

I don't see how, I mean I no there are a lot of people that claim to have seen them but there descriptions are all different. But who knows really. Maybe they are misquotes?

So if the Divine Creative Source is everywhere and is all things would it not make sense that an advanced being could transport it's Divine spark (Individual self) to anywhere within the vast matrix that we call the Universe including earth . Call it shift shaping on a universal level.

[sisterhellfyre]

80 percent believe that somewhere out there Aliens exist in some form. Now debate on whether they have visited Earth.

Option 1A: Yes, they have visited, but not often or frequently as said in Option 1. It's not like Earth (as far as I know) is a galactic McDonald's drive-through or something.

The hangup many of us have about the possibility of visitation is the distance between stars and the immense amounts of time traveling by conventional means from here to there. I'd think we're being a bit short-sighted about that.

My feeling is that the next breakthrough in space travel, when we find it, will seem to come right out of left field somewhere. It'll be the work of a team, a department, maybe even a single scientist who's able to suspend her preconceptions about our understanding of physics to see a whole new way of doing things. Something that we just haven't seen yet, but the math adds up so that 2+3+1+1=7 as surely as 1+1+1+1+1+1+1=7.

My guess is that The Discovery will look something like quantum entanglement: the realization that distance is an illusion of scale, but the underlying... nature... of the beast is infinite and eternal on the near, short end as much as the long, far end. We're seeing first experiments already with quantum entanglements, where a variation in the motion of one particle instantly changes the motion of its entangled partner. The distance between them does not seem to matter. The current experiments have an eye toward possible development of quantum communications and computing. The theories in place now might be enough to support the development of a simple quantum Morse code.

Just as an off-hand, first-try thought: what would it mean to have instantaneous data transfer and command capabilities with the satellites studying Saturn? Quantum communications like that might not be subject to the speed of light limits. Remember that the speed of light is, by definition, the speed of light in relation to the observer and environment of the observation.

If the speed of light is a chalk streak across a chalkboard, does the speed of light apply to sending a ripple of energy through the chalkboard itself?

Whatever "The Discovery" proves to be, it's going to challenge (and possibly change) everything we think we know about ourselves and the universe. And all of a sudden, we just might find that Alpha Centauri really is "just around the corner and down four blocks" after all.

[randomtask]

Option 1A: Yes, they have visited, but not often or frequently as said in Option 1. It's not like Earth (as far as I know) is a galactic McDonald's drive-through or something.

The hangup many of us have about the possibility of visitation is the distance between stars and the immense amounts of time traveling by conventional means from here to there. I'd think we're being a bit short-sighted about that.

My feeling is that the next breakthrough in space travel, when we find it, will seem to come right out of left field somewhere. It'll be the work of a team, a department, maybe even a single scientist who's able to suspend her preconceptions about our understanding of physics to see a whole new way of doing things. Something that we just haven't seen yet, but the math adds up so that 2+3+1+1=7 as surely as 1+1+1+1+1+1+1=7.

My guess is that The Discovery will look something like quantum entanglement: the realization that distance is an illusion of scale, but the underlying... nature... of the beast is infinite and eternal on the near, short end as much as the long, far end. We're seeing first experiments already with quantum entanglements, where a variation in the motion of one particle instantly changes the motion of its entangled partner. The distance between them does not seem to matter. The current experiments have an eye toward possible development of quantum communications and computing. The theories in place now might be enough to support the development of a simple quantum Morse code.

Just as an off-hand, first-try thought: what would it mean to have instantaneous data transfer and command capabilities with the satellites studying Saturn? Quantum communications like that might not be subject to the speed of light limits. Remember that the speed of light is, by definition, the speed of light in relation to the observer and environment of the observation.

If the speed of light is a chalk streak across a chalkboard, does the speed of light apply to sending a ripple of energy through the chalkboard itself?

Whatever "The Discovery" proves to be, it's going to challenge (and possibly change) everything we think we know about ourselves and the universe. And all of a sudden, we just might find that Alpha Centauri really is "just around the corner and down four blocks" after all.

I mostly agree with your take. There's just too much missing or wrong in the current model to judge interstellar travel impossible, simply improbable.

[sirhcyennek81]

There is nothing on earth that compares to how time and distance relate in space. We are seeing stars shining bright in the sky tonight that blew up a few million years ago. As we currently understand things, it would be impossible to travel from one planet to another in another galaxy.

Would you want to meet a being from another planet? Its not going to be like ET. I tend to agree with Hawking. We cannot assume aliens would be benign. They would come here to take what they need and move on...like ID4, but without a wisecracking pilot and an eco-nerd who is also a hacker saving the planet.

:Broncos:

[atomicbloke]

I do not know enough about the physics of space travel to give an informed answer.

Since the thread starter intended this to be a serious poll and not just a fun one, I will abstain from voting.

Seriously, how am I supposed to vote on a topic I know nothing about?

[sirhcyennek81]

I do not know enough about the physics of space travel to give an informed answer.

Since the thread starter intended this to be a serious poll and not just a fun one, I will abstain from voting.

Seriously, how am I supposed to vote on a topic I know nothing about?


Its the Mane. This is what we do.

:Broncos:

[robbieopperude]

You act like it's something to be ashamed or embarrassed of lol. Even so. Please no more stupid options. Almost as many people can't remember as those who believe aliens have visited.

Ugh..that was supposed to be a hint at being abducted. To many "punks" messing with the pole. You are right... no more funny answers to good poll topics.

[robbieopperude]

There is nothing on earth that compares to how time and distance relate in space. We are seeing stars shining bright in the sky tonight that blew up a few million years ago. As we currently understand things, it would be impossible to travel from one planet to another in another galaxy.

Would you want to meet a being from another planet? Its not going to be like ET. I tend to agree with Hawking. We cannot assume aliens would be benign. They would come here to take what they need and move on...like ID4, but without a wisecracking pilot and an eco-nerd who is also a hacker saving the planet.

:Broncos:

I also tend to agree with Hawking that another being could be hostile but I also believe they could be more enlightened than us as well.

We have all sorts of ways of life on Earth. I think the same applies to how life would function on other planets.

I often wonder how much more we as humans could do if we used more of our brain capacity. I have a feeling we will be a lot further along with a discussion like this in 2040 when technology really allows us to explore the Cosmos.

[Blart]

Bacteria or some other low lifeform may have hitched a ride to earth on a meteor (then perished upon reaching the atmosphere), which would make for an understandable lack of evidence.

Intelligent life has not visited earth, as there is no reasonable explanation for the lack of evidence.

[robbieopperude]

Bacteria or some other low lifeform may have hitched a ride to earth on a meteor (then perished upon reaching the atmosphere), which would make for an understandable lack of evidence.

Intelligent life has not visited earth, as there is no reasonable explanation for the lack of evidence.

I would say a very reasonable explanation for lack of evidence is that it would change the worlds perspective on religion and government. It would likely cause mass hysteria worldwide. To me that is a good reason to cover up and deny any visitation.

Evidence for:
Millions of reported sightings from all around the world, claims of abductions, cattle mutilations, Roswell, numerous military officials claims they exist, unexplained videos, photos, recorded broadcasts, secret military bases and cover up initiatives, and people on there deathbed who swear they landed but had to take an oath of secrecy.

[ScottXray]

I think that there probably is /has been other intelligent life out there somewhere. The sheer numbers of stars and probable planets with life just in OUR galaxy indicate it is probable, and the number of galaxies in the universe are also in the same range. Billions of billions of galaxies with multi billions of stars.

However, even if there are other civilisations that are at or above our level of technology, the odds that any of them are so close to us that we would be able to attract their attention (say from our radio signals, which at most have reached 110 light years distance, and the earliest were exceedingly weak) are pretty slim. And the fact that we are listening for similar radio signals yet have found none that are regular enough to indicate a similar technology, indicate that either technology such as ours is exceeding rare or that there is a basic flaw in our search /thought process. Intelligent life may be common , but technological intelligent life may only occur in one out of a billion intelligent species. And perhaps even fewer of those survive their technological phase. Those that do, may abandon tech either due to choice or lack of resources to continue it. Or perhaps those that do are "culled" by some other vastly superior technological super species (most likely to be artificial life, which could withstand generational travel methods much better than organic life ...(skynet in spades)

Are we regularly visited by them....NO, due to the vast distances
to be overcome. And the odds that two similarly technological species arise at the same time in the same area (say 1000 light years sphere) and develope a FTL transportation system that would enable one to "visit" the other are almost exceedingly slim. The odds that the visitor would even care to visit the other are also slim.

I do feel that it is possible that the earth may have been visited at some point in the distant past. Perhaps even some genetic, DNA manipulation mave have been done which pushed us in our developement as a species. But this would have been many thousands of years ago, and any real evidence is speculative. And the motive for doing so with a return based on a many thousand year unknown payoff would be pretty slim too.

The really strange thing is I have also seen UFOs, but looking back on it they could have been military secret aircraft, although the types of flight (right angle turns, etc) seen would smear any pilot all over the inside of any manned crafts cockpit. Our government does NOT always tell us what they are doing.

[Rabb]

I do not know enough about the physics of space travel to give an informed answer.

Since the thread starter intended this to be a serious poll and not just a fun one, I will abstain from voting.

Seriously, how am I supposed to vote on a topic I know nothing about?

ask jhns, he does it on every post

[Bronco Yoda]

[QUOTE=sisterhellfyre;2833767]Option 1A: Yes, they have visited, but not often or frequently as said in Option 1. It's not like Earth (as far as I know) is a galactic McDonald's drive-through or something.

http://www.santafeghostandhistorytours.com/cowm.html

[Hogan11]

Q: Have Aliens visited Earth?

A: Ever walk through the Quallcom Stadium parking lot on gameday?

[underrated29]

I dont know.....But one really interesting thing that always comes to mind when we talk about this stuff is:


In a painting by leonardo davinci he has a scene of a small city with people shopping, and boats sailing in the water and small houses and apple stands and fish stuff...But what really is interesting is that in the painting there is a small silver saucer in the sky. And there are a few people in the painting looking up at it and pointing to it.


This was painted by davinci who as we know was long before our time and the whole aliens thing.




Question is why does he paint that silver ufo and why are people looking and pointing at it if we have never been visited by aliens?



PS- when most people see lights at night and ufo type objects it is remote control helicopters. We used to attach the glow sticks, or lights to our RC compters and fly them at night in unison or on our own effing with people making them think they were UFOs or stuff. We would hover, take off fast, back up, whatever we wanted...Sooooo funny.

[Requiem]

U29, time to pull down your panties and tackle GEM.

[underrated29]

U29, time to pull down your panties and tackle GEM.


That was the first time i got crabs.



ps- heard about the kidneys- Sucks man. Havent made it big yet, I still need a couple more years. When I do, i got your back.

[Requiem]

That was the first time i got crabs.



ps- heard about the kidneys- Sucks man. Havent made it big yet, I still need a couple more years. When I do, i got your back.

How did you hear about them?

And I'll be all right. I am overblown by the support here at campus. They are doing a spaghetti feed and fundraiser here to help cover my medical costs. Just touches me to pieces.

Bad timing, sure, but guess what. What a send off from University. Graduate in 10 days. It's gonna rock.

[underrated29]

Sickness. I hated school and I did not put in anywhere close to the amount of effort you did.

grats on the graduation....

Sneakers- he made a post called "oh noz". Weird guy he is, nice guy, but weird. Now dont go all Jay cutler on me now, start drinking away and such.

[Kaylore]

I hate the no options. I chose religious purely because I don't believe its mathematicaly impossible. I think when/if they come, it will be when both parties are ready. I certainly think when they come, they will do more than smash our wheat, steal cow testicals and raping Mock.

[Old Dude]

I doubt it because I can't see why they'd waste their time.

Any alien civilizations advanced enough to travel through trillions of miles of interstellar space would probably not see Earth as anything more interesting than an ant hill.

How many of you guys would spend all the time and effort to travel deep into the Amazon jungle, just so you could stand in front of some ant hill there and flex your stuff? Or read them Proust? Or solve their energy problems?

[Rohirrim]

I doubt it because I can't see why they'd waste their time.

Any alien civilizations advanced enough to travel through trillions of miles of interstellar space would probably not see Earth as anything more interesting than an ant hill.

How many of you guys would spend all the time and effort to travel deep into the Amazon jungle, just so you could stand in front of some ant hill there and flex your stuff? Or read them Proust? Or solve their energy problems?

Judging by what I liked to do to anthills when I was a kid, I hope they're more evolved, or they might just decided to drop an asteroid on us to see what would happen.

[baja]

I doubt it because I can't see why they'd waste their time.

Any alien civilizations advanced enough to travel through trillions of miles of interstellar space would probably not see Earth as anything more interesting than an ant hill.

How many of you guys would spend all the time and effort to travel deep into the Amazon jungle, just so you could stand in front of some ant hill there and flex your stuff? Or read them Proust? Or solve their energy problems?


Maybe they came for Halle Berry

[baja]

I would.

[broncocalijohn]

Ask any human 150 years ago if we would be flying, going to the moon, etc. 150 years is nothing in this universe. Give an alien civilazation 10,000 year head start (or maybe even 100,000 year head start) and you could only wonder what can be done. I havent seen it personally but if life is formed on Earth, why couldnt it be somewhere else? Add the technology that they can have and it is very possible for them to be interested in Earth. Their experiment project.

[Phantom]

Why does an alien space craft, capable of traveling across the universe, need flashing colored lights on the outside. Do they use their blinker when they take a left at the Milkyway?

[atomicbloke]

Q: Have Aliens visited Earth?

A: Ever walk through the Quallcom Stadium parking lot on gameday?

Dude, this so funny....

How do you come up with such original never heard before jokes?

You really do have a great talent for coming up with original jokes... keep it up!

[Rock Chalk]

No, but not for either reason given.

It is mathematically possible for a sufficiently advanced lifeform to travel both the galaxy and the universe in general.

The reason? Really really small needle in a ridiculously large haystack.

Earth is situated in a sparsely populated region of the galaxy where stars are further apart than the galactic norm. Since our technological footprint does not extend beyond this sparsely populated region of the galaxy (i.e., our earliest radio waves are still a stones throw away), it is bloody unlikely advanced aliens have been here.

The galaxy itself is huge. Assuming that there is another intelligent life form in OUR galaxy, statistically speaking that life form will likely be some 50,000 light years from us. Between us and them there are some 30 BILLION stars to explore and regions of the galaxy MUCH more interesting to explore than this particular region we occupy.

If aliens are out exploring, and not looking for resources, they would have had to exist longer than this galaxy has been around to find us. If aliens are looking for resources, they aren't going to be coming here ever.


If there is not an intelligent life form in our galaxy but in a nearby galaxy, then it is unlikely that we will ever meet them as the voids between galaxies are 10-100 times as big as the galaxy itself. (Andromeda, our closest galaxy, is 10 times further from the Milky Way as the Milky Way is across).

Mathematically it is entirely possible for ships to travel great distances even at sub-light speeds. Any civilization advanced enough to make these trips has solved their own aging problems (meaning their Biological technology is retardedly advanced), have a 100% efficient recylcing method so that food and water can be replaced without stopping, and have likely discovered a method of creating and storing anti-matter in an efficient manner on the go.

A single gram of anti-matter could take a ship the size of the space shuttle to the nearest star within a few decades. Creating a single gram of anti-matter on Earth would bankrupt the entire world (although, a single Obama is doing that too). Moreover, we humans have no practical way of storing anti-matter without you know, it mutually annihilating the compartment it is stored in.

Given that we are talking about aliens galavanting around the galaxy and/or universe, then these technologies (which are all possible) have been perfected by them.

[Rohirrim]

Plus, if the Big Bang concept is correct, then picture it as a giant stone thrown into a lake. The ripples would represent stars and galaxies and nebulae forming along rings moving out from the center - the original blast. Each ring would represent time emanating away from the original explosion. So, if there is life in the universe other than ours, the life that resides on galaxies and systems on our same concentric ring (logically) would be about at the same point of evolution as we are. The rings closer to the center would by much younger, while those out at the edge of the universe, where all the quasars reside, would be much older. So, the most advanced civilizations would be out on the edges of the universe, way too far to conceivably visit us by any technology we can imagine. And the life forms that are nearest to us within the universe, would also likely be nearest to us in development as well.

[Blart]

I would say a very reasonable explanation for lack of evidence is that it would change the worlds perspective on religion and government. It would likely cause mass hysteria worldwide. To me that is a good reason to cover up and deny any visitation.

A massive worldwide conspiracy to cover up evidence is not a reasonable explanation.

If it were reasonable, then I could propose anything - for example, the flying spaghetti monster. Why don't you know about him? Because of a massive worldwide conspiracy.


Evidence for:
Millions of reported sightings from all around the world, claims of abductions, cattle mutilations, Roswell, numerous military officials claims they exist, unexplained videos, photos, recorded broadcasts, secret military bases and cover up initiatives, and people on there deathbed who swear they landed but had to take an oath of secrecy.

Anecdotal evidence is not based on facts nor careful study. It's pseudoscience and to believe it is faulty logic. A high ranking official saying they exist is an appeal to authority, yet another logical fallacy. A video or photo that is "unexplained" is just that - no explanation stands up to scrutiny. Although it's human to attempt to explain everything that we don't understand (look at ancient myths about lightning), it's not an invitation for you to insert your wildest fantasies, be it ghosts, gods, or aliens, into that which is unexplained.

I recommend you read "Demon Haunted World (http://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted-World-Science-Candle-Dark/dp/0345409469/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273102826&sr=8-1)" by Carl Sagan, a man who has done more to contact extraterrestrial life than any other, to get a more scientific perspective on UFOs (unidentified flying objects).

[NYBronco]

I said yes to their earth visit not so much how often.

If you haven't watched Known Universe I would recommend it. The show just reinforces my beliefs.

[Hogan11]

Dude, this so funny....

How do you come up with such original never heard before jokes?

You really do have a great talent for coming up with original jokes... keep it up!

Thank you, I'll be here all week....tip your waitress and try the veal!

[BroncoInferno]

I think that, given that mind-bogglingly vastness of the universe, that there our probably other life forms out there. But the nearest planet that could possibly contain life is at least several million light years away. The physics necessary to make the trip to Earth possible make alien visitation highly unlikely.

[BroncoInferno]

No, but not for either reason given.

It is mathematically possible for a sufficiently advanced lifeform to travel both the galaxy and the universe in general.

The reason? Really really small needle in a ridiculously large haystack.

Earth is situated in a sparsely populated region of the galaxy where stars are further apart than the galactic norm. Since our technological footprint does not extend beyond this sparsely populated region of the galaxy (i.e., our earliest radio waves are still a stones throw away), it is bloody unlikely advanced aliens have been here.

The galaxy itself is huge. Assuming that there is another intelligent life form in OUR galaxy, statistically speaking that life form will likely be some 50,000 light years from us. Between us and them there are some 30 BILLION stars to explore and regions of the galaxy MUCH more interesting to explore than this particular region we occupy.

If aliens are out exploring, and not looking for resources, they would have had to exist longer than this galaxy has been around to find us. If aliens are looking for resources, they aren't going to be coming here ever.


If there is not an intelligent life form in our galaxy but in a nearby galaxy, then it is unlikely that we will ever meet them as the voids between galaxies are 10-100 times as big as the galaxy itself. (Andromeda, our closest galaxy, is 10 times further from the Milky Way as the Milky Way is across).

Mathematically it is entirely possible for ships to travel great distances even at sub-light speeds. Any civilization advanced enough to make these trips has solved their own aging problems (meaning their Biological technology is retardedly advanced), have a 100% efficient recylcing method so that food and water can be replaced without stopping, and have likely discovered a method of creating and storing anti-matter in an efficient manner on the go.

A single gram of anti-matter could take a ship the size of the space shuttle to the nearest star within a few decades. Creating a single gram of anti-matter on Earth would bankrupt the entire world (although, a single Obama is doing that too). Moreover, we humans have no practical way of storing anti-matter without you know, it mutually annihilating the compartment it is stored in.

Given that we are talking about aliens galavanting around the galaxy and/or universe, then these technologies (which are all possible) have been perfected by them.

I pretty much agree with this post, except the mathmatics part. Yes, there are mathmatical equations that make such travels possible, but still highly unlikely.

One thing that some people mistakenly assume (not necessarily Alec in this post, but in general), is that evolution puts progress on an ever upward scale. That isn't the case. Most people assume that the longer a species exists, the more advanced it will become. Therefore, if a species has existed, say, two million years longer than humans, they would be more advanced than us. Of course, this isn't true. Just on Earth, there are many species that have existed far longer than humans, and yet we are the only species to have made the advancements we have. The advancements our species have made have been largely the result of blind luck, discoveries made by single individuals who often times weren't even looking to make the discoveries they made. Most of the technological advances have occured in the last two hundred years, after many millenia of ebb and flow between so called advancements and ignorance (compare the Dark Ages, for instance, with the Roman Empire). So, it may be that we Earthings are unique in our scientific/technological advancements/knowledge in the universe. It was a highly improbably occurance to begin with. In any case, I think that the probability that a species exists that could travel the vastness of the universe to find Earth (or, as Alec suggested, that even if they possessed those advancements that they would even find Earth) is highly unlikely.

[Tombstone RJ]

My guess is no, though im not sure how its mathematically impossible. If a civilization has been around much longer than ours, and developed at a much more rapid pace, i suppose its possible. It would involve a ton of **** we can't possibly comprehend though.

huh?

[Pony Boy]

As we currently understand things, only Tebow will be able to travel from one planet to another and on to another galaxy.

[ScottXray]

If a society was advanced enough to go star hopping through some advanced transportation system and they were curious about their surroundings (like us) AND they were carbon based, oxygen breathing
(like us) they very well might go looking for Planets that were oxygen based
atmosphere, same size as their home planet (within a certain +- factor for gravity) and capable of sustaining their life form.

Already we are starting to look for Earth like planets in the nearer stars that might be capable of being visited and or colonised (should we ever develope the means to get there). A part of it is our curiosity and a part of it is the fact that we know we are capable of being wiped out. But we are looking, even though we can't go yet, and they have alreasy spotted several candidates. They are probably wrong about them, but they have found several earth sized planets. So far most are not in the band where life as we know it is probably possible ( too far from their suns or too close)

But if that species had the tech to get somewhere, they probably would also have the tech to weed out the unlikely candidates. This would include stars with the wrong light spectrum (red giants, binaries, blue (too young), and a zillion other types of systems. When you start applying this weed out process and start selecting down, the number of systems that might work become a lot lower. (There is even speculation that a single Large Moon might be needed to promote life forming). Anyway, it might be that there are only a few million such planets in the entire galaxy, so a very advanced
tech society might decide to check them, or at least the closer ones. Assuming their transport system is FTL (sort of a warp drive so they don't spend years getting there and back) then it becomes possible , maybe even likely, that they may have visited earth at some time in the past (or might in the future.) It is still unlikely that they will be doing so RIGHT NOW, unless they are very far away, or are so advanced that they don't care.

At any rate, the point is that you don't check EVERY star, just the ones with earth sized planets , a certain distance from a G type (yellow) non variable sun that is of the right size and class. Those are the ones we would be checking if we had the means to go.

[BroncoInferno]

If a society was advanced enough to go star hopping through some advanced transportation system and they were curious about their surroundings (like us) AND they were carbon based, oxygen breathing
(like us) they very well might go looking for Planets that were oxygen based
atmosphere, same size as their home planet (within a certain +- factor for gravity) and capable of sustaining their life form.

Already we are starting to look for Earth like planets in the nearer stars that might be capable of being visited and or colonised (should we ever develope the means to get there). A part of it is our curiosity and a part of it is the fact that we know we are capable of being wiped out. But we are looking, even though we can't go yet, and they have alreasy spotted several candidates. They are probably wrong about them, but they have found several earth sized planets. So far most are not in the band where life as we know it is probably possible ( too far from their suns or too close)

But if that species had the tech to get somewhere, they probably would also have the tech to weed out the unlikely candidates. This would include stars with the wrong light spectrum (red giants, binaries, blue (too young), and a zillion other types of systems. When you start applying this weed out process and start selecting down, the number of systems that might work become a lot lower. (There is even speculation that a single Large Moon might be needed to promote life forming). Anyway, it might be that there are only a few million such planets in the entire galaxy, so a very advanced
tech society might decide to check them, or at least the closer ones. Assuming their transport system is FTL (sort of a warp drive so they don't spend years getting there and back) then it becomes possible , maybe even likely, that they may have visited earth at some time in the past (or might in the future.) It is still unlikely that they will be doing so RIGHT NOW, unless they are very far away, or are so advanced that they don't care.

At any rate, the point is that you don't check EVERY star, just the ones with earth sized planets , a certain distance from a G type (yellow) non variable sun that is of the right size and class. Those are the ones we would be checking if we had the means to go.

But the universe (even the galaxy) is so vast, that even such a weeding out process would likely be scatter shot, at best. But, as I said in my eariler post, it may be likely that there are life forms on other planets, but the likelihood of a significantly advanced (as we descirbe it) civilisation existing out there would require much slimmer odds than merely the existence of life.

[robbieopperude]

A massive worldwide conspiracy to cover up evidence is not a reasonable explanation.

I'm not saying that a worldwide conspiracy is reasonable to cover up but it certainly is possible. Stock Markets would likely crash and faith and religion around the world would be in question.

If it were reasonable, then I could propose anything - for example, the flying spaghetti monster. Why don't you know about him? Because of a massive worldwide conspiracy.

Not the same as a UFO sighting which have claims from around the world throughout the history of man. From cave drawings, to biblical paintings, to videos, to photos. Not just one photo like Lochness monster but many many photos.

Anecdotal evidence is not based on facts nor careful study. It's pseudoscience and to believe it is faulty logic. A high ranking official saying they exist is an appeal to authority, yet another logical fallacy. A video or photo that is "unexplained" is just that - no explanation stands up to scrutiny. Although it's human to attempt to explain everything that we don't understand (look at ancient myths about lightning), it's not an invitation for you to insert your wildest fantasies, be it ghosts, gods, or aliens, into that which is unexplained.

I do believe that most UFO videos and photos are more likely government test type vehicles than actual visits.

I didn't really see you convey anything that can convince me that military people lying on there deathbed would feel the urge to lie about Roswell. Or, for that matter, the many other scientists and government officials who come out and say they worked on projects that involved UFO type technology. Yes, I believe some of them are probably doing it for fame or money but I just can't believe that humanity is so corruptible that a 80 to 90 year old man would tell a whopper of a lie just before dying. Not to mention people from that era of time have different standards and codes that they lived by.

I recommend you read "Demon Haunted World (http://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted-World-Science-Candle-Dark/dp/0345409469/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273102826&sr=8-1)" by Carl Sagan, a man who has done more to contact extraterrestrial life than any other, to get a more scientific perspective on UFOs (unidentified flying objects).

I will try to pick this up.

[robbieopperude]

One thing that I find interesting is the references that UFO activity severely picked up after our nuke testing.

[ShutDownPoster]

Sure, they came here a couple of billion years ago to make a pit stop and take a quick dump. That rotting piece of turd eventually evolved into who we are today :-)

[sisterhellfyre]

Sure, they came here a couple of billion years ago to make a pit stop and take a quick dump. That rotting piece of turd eventually evolved into who we are today :-)

No wonder so many humans are ****heads, then.

[ZONA]

I pretty much agree with this post, except the mathmatics part. Yes, there are mathmatical equations that make such travels possible, but still highly unlikely.

One thing that some people mistakenly assume (not necessarily Alec in this post, but in general), is that evolution puts progress on an ever upward scale. That isn't the case. Most people assume that the longer a species exists, the more advanced it will become. Therefore, if a species has existed, say, two million years longer than humans, they would be more advanced than us. Of course, this isn't true. Just on Earth, there are many species that have existed far longer than humans, and yet we are the only species to have made the advancements we have. The advancements our species have made have been largely the result of blind luck, discoveries made by single individuals who often times weren't even looking to make the discoveries they made. Most of the technological advances have occured in the last two hundred years, after many millenia of ebb and flow between so called advancements and ignorance (compare the Dark Ages, for instance, with the Roman Empire). So, it may be that we Earthings are unique in our scientific/technological advancements/knowledge in the universe. It was a highly improbably occurance to begin with. In any case, I think that the probability that a species exists that could travel the vastness of the universe to find Earth (or, as Alec suggested, that even if they possessed those advancements that they would even find Earth) is highly unlikely.

Very well put. That is exactly correct. And just to add one more thing, each species is on a time clock right from the go. Use mankind as an example. As you said, we were not even the first species on this planet. By the time we came around, our Sun was already through half of it's life. And our Sun is about the perfect type of star for life to evolve. Many other stars are much bigger and burn out even faster, giving said species even less time to evolve and develop advanced technology. Then you also have the life term of the planet itself. Take Mars for example, it's believed to have had an atmosphere long ago. It's just that the planet being further away from the Sun and smaller then Earth, it's core cooled much faster, making it unable to sustain it's atmosphere. So any other living creatures on some planet far far away have to advance pretty quickly or their chances at developing technologies to sustain them through space travel become highly unlikely. Then throw in random astroid collisions and many many other things that can destroy all life on a planet, you have to get pretty lucky I'd say. Venus is another good example. It's in the so called "habital zone". It just had too much water vapor in it's atmosphere early on, which caused a major greenhouse reaction that just snowballed and now it's a furnace with atmosphereic pressure that is 10 times that of Earth. We have perfect examples right here in our own solar system that show us, plenty of things have to go just right for a species to live and thrive.

[Blart]

I didn't really see you convey anything that can convince me that military people lying on there deathbed would feel the urge to lie about Roswell. Or, for that matter, the many other scientists and government officials who come out and say they worked on projects that involved UFO type technology. Yes, I believe some of them are probably doing it for fame or money but I just can't believe that humanity is so corruptible that a 80 to 90 year old man would tell a whopper of a lie just before dying. Not to mention people from that era of time have different standards and codes that they lived by.


I'm not saying they're lying. Sagan is much more delicate than me on this subject, so I'll let him explain:

SAGAN: If I were speaking to a group of abductees, I think the first thing I would do would be to tell them that I'm sure to many of them the pain that is expressed is genuine, that they're not just making this up. And it's very important to be compassionate. At the same time, I would stress that hallucinations are a human common place, and not a sign that you are crazy. And that absolutely clear hallucinations have occured to normal people and it has a compelling feeling of reality, but it's generated in the head.

And that being the case, I would ask them to try to be as objective as they can and see if anything like that might, in fact, explain what they said happened to them. And I'd remind them that children, universally, have terrible nightmares, especially around 7 to 11, and wake up from sleep absolutely terrified about a monster, a witch, a goblin, a demon, and why shouldn't some of us retain that? I mean, there's no question that those monsters don't exist and they're hiding in the closet or under the bed. That's something generated in the mind. Why should it all go away when we grow up? We should retain some of that. And could not something like that be an explanation?

I would try to simply ask them to adopt the scientific method of multiple working hypothesis. Right now, they have only one hypothesis and their minds are, in many cases, closed to the alternative. I would ask them to do a serious consideration of the alternative, see if it makes sense.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/aliens/carlsagan.html

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[ScottXray]

Very well put. That is exactly correct. And just to add one more thing, each species is on a time clock right from the go. Use mankind as an example. As you said, we were not even the first species on this planet. By the time we came around, our Sun was already through half of it's life. And our Sun is about the perfect type of star for life to evolve. Many other stars are much bigger and burn out even faster, giving said species even less time to evolve and develop advanced technology. Then you also have the life term of the planet itself. Take Mars for example, it's believed to have had an atmosphere long ago. It's just that the planet being further away from the Sun and smaller then Earth, it's core cooled much faster, making it unable to sustain it's atmosphere. So any other living creatures on some planet far far away have to advance pretty quickly or their chances at developing technologies to sustain them through space travel become highly unlikely. Then throw in random astroid collisions and many many other things that can destroy all life on a planet, you have to get pretty lucky I'd say. Venus is another good example. It's in the so called "habital zone". It just had too much water vapor in it's atmosphere early on, which caused a major greenhouse reaction that just snowballed and now it's a furnace with atmosphereic pressure that is 10 times that of Earth. We have perfect examples right here in our own solar system that show us, plenty of things have to go just right for a species to live and thrive.

True, there are examples in our system of how hard it is for life to Develope, and there is a timeline for each age that is a window of opportunity..

But you also need to look at Tough it is to kill ALL life on a planet. The Earth has had many extinctions in its history, but life always came back. Our species has developed in just the last 4 million years from a primate that was just starting to stand upright to where we are now. On the Cosmic scale that is but an eyeblink, a millisecond. In the last 10,000 we have gone from
stone age tool users to nuclear capable (most of it in the last 5000). Prior to that there was an ice age, so significant historical finds past that age are obscured and lost, but the thing is even we homo sapiens survived that period, in fact that is when we became dominant.

Our speed of development may be unusual , or it may be normal. I tend to think we are unusually fast, but that may be a result of the fact that we live on an active and changing planet. It may be that it is a necessity to have such a planet in order for evolution to be spurred to produce a species like us.

The dinosaurs ruled the planet for 50 million years. Their extiction by a planet killer comet led to the rise of the mammals as dominant life form (on Land) due to the power vacuum at the top of the food chain. Life is incredibly capable of adapting to extreme conditions. Sentient life is probably extremely rare, yes, but also the only one capable of Purposely spreading itself beyond its planet of origin. If we, as a species, can survive the next 1000 years I have no doubt that we will have established self sufficient colonies off this planet. Once that is done it then gives us the time to even modify ourselves through genetic engineering to be adapted to live in different environments that no base line human could survive in. Once that threshold is reached the timeline of developement is no longer a factor. Sentient life that reaches space and gets out of the "cradle" of its home planet is no longer limited.
And then the Stars are the limit!

[Dedhed]

It seems mathematically impossible given our knowledge of mathematics. Maybe we should start another thread debating whether alien life forms are more advanced than us, enabling them to surf the galaxies like we surf the web.

[Tombstone RJ]

It seems mathematically impossible given our knowledge of mathematics. Maybe we should start another thread debating whether alien life forms are more advanced than us, enabling them to surf the galaxies like we surf the web.

QFT.

All we really know is what we don't know.

[Dedhed]

True, there are examples in our system of how hard it is for life to Develope, and there is a timeline for each age that is a window of opportunity..

Given the breadth of the universe and our limited knowledge of even the closest of planets, I think it's possible that there are elements in existence which we have no knowledge of at all.

I think it's possible that other life forms could thrive on those elements similarly to how we thrive upon the basal elements found on earth.

I'm not sure whether that would make it easier for life to develop, but it's interesting to think about.

[NYBronco]

QFT.

All we really know is what we don't know.

If we know what we don't know then don't we technically know it all? :wiggle:

[ZONA]

True, there are examples in our system of how hard it is for life to Develope, and there is a timeline for each age that is a window of opportunity..

But you also need to look at Tough it is to kill ALL life on a planet. The Earth has had many extinctions in its history, but life always came back. Our species has developed in just the last 4 million years from a primate that was just starting to stand upright to where we are now. On the Cosmic scale that is but an eyeblink, a millisecond. In the last 10,000 we have gone from
stone age tool users to nuclear capable (most of it in the last 5000). Prior to that there was an ice age, so significant historical finds past that age are obscured and lost, but the thing is even we homo sapiens survived that period, in fact that is when we became dominant.

Our speed of development may be unusual , or it may be normal. I tend to think we are unusually fast, but that may be a result of the fact that we live on an active and changing planet. It may be that it is a necessity to have such a planet in order for evolution to be spurred to produce a species like us.

The dinosaurs ruled the planet for 50 million years. Their extiction by a planet killer comet led to the rise of the mammals as dominant life form (on Land) due to the power vacuum at the top of the food chain. Life is incredibly capable of adapting to extreme conditions. Sentient life is probably extremely rare, yes, but also the only one capable of Purposely spreading itself beyond its planet of origin. If we, as a species, can survive the next 1000 years I have no doubt that we will have established self sufficient colonies off this planet. Once that is done it then gives us the time to even modify ourselves through genetic engineering to be adapted to live in different environments that no base line human could survive in. Once that threshold is reached the timeline of developement is no longer a factor. Sentient life that reaches space and gets out of the "cradle" of its home planet is no longer limited.
And then the Stars are the limit!

That's not entirely accurate. In space, there is always a timeline. For example, let's say we have the ability to travel in space at great speeds. Let's use something close to light speed, although going even close to that speed is almost unrealistic. It would take 100,000 + years to travel to the other side of our own galaxy. Sure there are plenty of other stars in our galaxy and even if we found a new home in some other solar system in the MilkyWay, the clock is still ticking. Andromeda is set to smash into the MilkyWay and being in the middle of a galactic collision is no place to be. So we would need to travel well beyond even where Andromeda is today. We're talking millions of light years. There is always a clock ticking in space, somewhere from some terrible event that will happen.

[robbieopperude]

I'm not saying they're lying. Sagan is much more delicate than me on this subject, so I'll let him explain:

SAGAN: If I were speaking to a group of abductees, I think the first thing I would do would be to tell them that I'm sure to many of them the pain that is expressed is genuine, that they're not just making this up. And it's very important to be compassionate. At the same time, I would stress that hallucinations are a human common place, and not a sign that you are crazy. And that absolutely clear hallucinations have occured to normal people and it has a compelling feeling of reality, but it's generated in the head.

And that being the case, I would ask them to try to be as objective as they can and see if anything like that might, in fact, explain what they said happened to them. And I'd remind them that children, universally, have terrible nightmares, especially around 7 to 11, and wake up from sleep absolutely terrified about a monster, a witch, a goblin, a demon, and why shouldn't some of us retain that? I mean, there's no question that those monsters don't exist and they're hiding in the closet or under the bed. That's something generated in the mind. Why should it all go away when we grow up? We should retain some of that. And could not something like that be an explanation?

I would try to simply ask them to adopt the scientific method of multiple working hypothesis. Right now, they have only one hypothesis and their minds are, in many cases, closed to the alternative. I would ask them to do a serious consideration of the alternative, see if it makes sense.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/aliens/carlsagan.html

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I think the idea of a Hallucination works fine for people who claim they were abducted or through hypnosis find out they were abducted. This quote doesn't cover the fact that officers in the military on there death bed sweared on there life that they covered up two alien crashes in Roswell. Then you look at that facts that.
A: something really strange happened in Roswell
B: Somewhere between ten and fifteen civilians claimed to have saw bodies and metal that was of other worldness
C: Officers who were stationed in Roswell, on there deathbed, sweared to the coverup.

I just can't believe that we had a secret "weather balloon"

Extraordinary evidence is very debatable. I would argue that if you researched some of the extraordinary things that abductees have had implanted inside of them you may find that interesting.

[Dedhed]

That's not entirely accurate. In space, there is always a timeline. For example, let's say we have the ability to travel in space at great speeds. Let's use something close to light speed, although going even close to that speed is almost unrealistic. It would take 100,000 + years to travel to the other side of our own galaxy. Sure there are plenty of other stars in our galaxy and even if we found a new home in some other solar system in the MilkyWay, the clock is still ticking. Andromeda is set to smash into the MilkyWay and being in the middle of a galactic collision is no place to be. So we would need to travel well beyond even where Andromeda is today. We're talking millions of light years. There is always a clock ticking in space, somewhere from some terrible event that will happen.
What if other life forms have been in existence for millions of years and have developed technology to literally teleport and cover millions of light years of distance in no time at all?

[Mr.Meanie]

I do not know enough about the physics of space travel to give an informed answer.

Since the thread starter intended this to be a serious poll and not just a fun one, I will abstain from voting.

Seriously, how am I supposed to vote on a topic I know nothing about?

That's why god invented Google and Wikipedia

[Broncos4tw]

Yes, pretty sure they have been. There is a sizable mountain of evidence to support that they have, and still are. There are quite a few -very- important cases, that no one has gotten close to explaining away. When craft are so advanced that they can only belong to a superpower nation or are not from around these parts, makes it easier to break down.

And I for a moment, don't believe that they have tested black projects over major cities, for extended periods.

[daysofcoleco]

Bees.
Yes bees are aliens. They came a long time ago and like earth flowers so they stayed. Who else but an alien could make honey out of a flower?

Also jellyfish are alien commandos.

[maher_tyler]

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[Blart]

I think the idea of a Hallucination works fine for people who claim they were abducted or through hypnosis find out they were abducted. This quote doesn't cover the fact that officers in the military on there death bed sweared on there life that they covered up two alien crashes in Roswell. Then you look at that facts that.
A: something really strange happened in Roswell
B: Somewhere between ten and fifteen civilians claimed to have saw bodies and metal that was of other worldness
C: Officers who were stationed in Roswell, on there deathbed, sweared to the coverup.

I just can't believe that we had a secret "weather balloon"

Extraordinary evidence is very debatable. I would argue that if you researched some of the extraordinary things that abductees have had implanted inside of them you may find that interesting.

You don't have to believe the "weather balloon" story, it could very well be false. And if it is false, if there is a coverup or an oversight or an accident, that doesn't make advanced alien beings visting earth, or flying monsters, or angels and demons the only other hypotheses. A UFO is just that - an unidentified flying object.

Millions of objects on our planet can be thrust into the sky in millions of ways, and not all are instantly identifiable. Hence, unidentified flying objects. That most people insist the word "UFO" means "alien visitor" speaks well for the human imagination.

Trusting a former military officer's word is a logical fallacy, known as an Argument from Authority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority). He may not be lying, he may not be hallucinating, hey may not be old and on his deathbed and senile, he could be telling the truth. But there's no way to verify his claim.

As for the alien abductee's, what was implanted inside of them? The alien captain's map charting out his home planet which we can contact with radio? Plans to build a spaceship that we can test and use? The answer to any number of humanity's deepest mathmetical, biological, or physics questions? Heavy elements that don't exist on earth? Materials that have bizarre properties, isotopic ratio's not found on earth? Anything that would give scientific credit to those stories?

Unfortunately we have none of those. Instead, the best evidence for aliens that's been produced are scars and parts of objects consisting of earth materials. Nothing extraordinary enough to confirm such extraordinary claims.

[robbieopperude]

That's not entirely accurate. In space, there is always a timeline. For example, let's say we have the ability to travel in space at great speeds. Let's use something close to light speed, although going even close to that speed is almost unrealistic. It would take 100,000 + years to travel to the other side of our own galaxy. Sure there are plenty of other stars in our galaxy and even if we found a new home in some other solar system in the MilkyWay, the clock is still ticking. Andromeda is set to smash into the MilkyWay and being in the middle of a galactic collision is no place to be. So we would need to travel well beyond even where Andromeda is today. We're talking millions of light years. There is always a clock ticking in space, somewhere from some terrible event that will happen.

One thing that I will just point out is that the mathematics that we understand and apply can be entirely different than how another civilization applies or understands mathematics. We are always learning. Perhaps the speed of light is just a equation that we currently understand and that we can't comprehend any other type of travel or speed at this time.

Spoonboy to Neo from the Matrix:

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon.

[robbieopperude]

You don't have to believe the "weather balloon" story, it could very well be false. And if it is false, if there is a coverup or an oversight or an accident, that doesn't make advanced alien beings visting earth, or flying monsters, or angels and demons the only other hypotheses. A UFO is just that - an unidentified flying object.

Millions of objects on our planet can be thrust into the sky in millions of ways, and not all are instantly identifiable. Hence, unidentified flying objects. That most people insist the word "UFO" means "alien visitor" speaks well for the human imagination.

Trusting a former military officer's word is a logical fallacy, known as an Argument from Authority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority). He may not be lying, he may not be hallucinating, hey may not be old and on his deathbed and senile, he could be telling the truth. But there's no way to verify his claim.

As for the alien abductee's, what was implanted inside of them? The alien captain's map charting out his home planet which we can contact with radio? Plans to build a spaceship that we can test and use? The answer to any number of humanity's deepest mathmetical, biological, or physics questions? Heavy elements that don't exist on earth? Materials that have bizarre properties, isotopic ratio's not found on earth? Anything that would give scientific credit to those stories?

This has been found. Check out information on Dr. Roger Leir who has taken out at least 8 implants throughout the years. Inside of people in various locations of the anatomy he has found

Unfortunately we have none of those. Instead, the best evidence for aliens that's been produced are scars and parts of objects consisting of earth materials. Nothing extraordinary enough to confirm such extraordinary claims.

"Another strange thing was also discovered. In the tissue around each implant, there were numerous nerve endings that didn't belong there. None of the investigators could say why these nerve endings were there, but it suggests the possibility that the implants act as some kind of monitoring device through attachment to the nervous system.

When Derrel Sims got the objects back to Houston, his first test was to expose them to ultraviolet light. He found that they all glowed brilliant fluorescent green. Derrel has found in his research with abductees that patches of some substance, invisible to the naked eye but fluorescent under black light, sometimes show up on the abductee's body following an abduction. He suspects that whatever this substance is, it could result from direct physical contact with the body of the abductor. With this in mind, he said he was not surprised to see that the three removed objects were fluorescent."

Removed from known abductees inbetween the toes on a woman and in the wrist of a man.
See source for more info.
http://www.ufodigest.com/surgeon.html

[Dedhed]

One thing that I will just point out is that the mathematics that we understand and apply can be entirely different than how another civilization applies or understands mathematics. We are always learning. Perhaps the speed of light is just a equation that we currently understand and that we can't comprehend any other type of travel or speed at this time.

Spoonboy to Neo from the Matrix:

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon.This is a great point. Mathematics and science in general depend heavily on perspective. There are numerous examples of modern science being unable to explain ancient phenomena; due largely to the fact that we cannot comprehend the circumstances that surrounded the development of those things or have any insight into the motive or environmental tools present at the time they were created.

Given the fact that our science cannot understand things that were built by other humans on our own planet, it is easy to imagine that there could be a great deal of applied science and mathematics that is simply way beyond our current scope of understanding.

Imagine the idea of the internet to someone living 1500 years ago. Sending thoughts, words, images, etc through the ethos to anywhere in the world would be literally incomprehensible to someone who will never experience electricity in their lifetime. The internet would seem no less impossible to them
than intergalactic travel seems to us today.

[Blart]

"Another strange thing was also discovered. In the tissue around each implant, there were numerous nerve endings that didn't belong there. None of the investigators could say why these nerve endings were there, but it suggests the possibility that the implants act as some kind of monitoring device through attachment to the nervous system.

When Derrel Sims got the objects back to Houston, his first test was to expose them to ultraviolet light. He found that they all glowed brilliant fluorescent green. Derrel has found in his research with abductees that patches of some substance, invisible to the naked eye but fluorescent under black light, sometimes show up on the abductee's body following an abduction. He suspects that whatever this substance is, it could result from direct physical contact with the body of the abductor. With this in mind, he said he was not surprised to see that the three removed objects were fluorescent."

Removed from known abductees inbetween the toes on a woman and in the wrist of a man.
See source for more info.
http://www.ufodigest.com/surgeon.html

Dr. Leir prefers to publish his findings in alien books, rather than medical journals. He doesn't offer up his green-glowing evidence to other scientists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mokuDHh0nkg part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAMmiXra9Jo part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Se7rOL_XQs part 3 (Dr. Leir at 3 min)

[robbieopperude]

Dr. Leir prefers to publish his findings in alien books, rather than medical journals. He doesn't offer up his green-glowing evidence to other scientists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mokuDHh0nkg part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAMmiXra9Jo part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Se7rOL_XQs part 3 (Dr. Leir at 3 min)

I am on a shared network using satellite internet so we don't have enough bandwidth for me to view youtube clips. I do imagine that a medical journal wouldn't accept information that is unexplained.

I did read up that alot of other medical people say that the body has a funny way of producing things randomly so perhaps that is all it is. A small percentage of peoples bodies producing something out of the ordinary. The fact that they also claim to be abductees has to say something however.

What is your explanation for alleged abductees also having completely out of the ordinary implants inside of there body?

[Blart]

The video showed Roger Leir removing some metal objects covered in blood, and a mobile fat ball from people's bodies. I'm not sure what a foot doctor was interested in someone's arm for, but he gave fantastic explanations about how the metal was covered in biological material, and the fat ball would "run away" from one's finger. Another doctor watching the video explained that such things were commonplace, metal is usually covered in blood and tissue when exiting the body, and fat tissue is known to coagulate and become mobile.

When new discoveries are made in any field, scientists publish them in peer-reviewed journals, and to be published is both an honor and a career boost. The fact that Roger Leir avoids this method, and writes alien abduction books and a website, should put his motives and methods in question. As should the fact that he's on probation for medical negligence in California.

[Rock Chalk]

I pretty much agree with this post, except the mathmatics part. Yes, there are mathmatical equations that make such travels possible, but still highly unlikely.

The anti-matter is the key and the mathematics is not only possible but, given a sufficient amount of anti-matter, are likely.

With an "endless" supply of anti-matter, or the ability to create it on the go from galactic "debris" or whatever, one could accelerate a spaceship indefinitely. Never reaching the speed of light but continuing to incrementally get closer to it (99.9%, 99.99%, 99.999%). Mathematically, accelerating this way one could travel the ENTIRE universe in roughly 12 local years (relativistic effects would mean quadrillions of years on Earth, closer to the speed of light you get, slower time moves for you locally though). Acceleration at 1G, which solves the lack of gravity issue.

One thing that some people mistakenly assume (not necessarily Alec in this post, but in general), is that evolution puts progress on an ever upward scale. That isn't the case. Most people assume that the longer a species exists, the more advanced it will become. Therefore, if a species has existed, say, two million years longer than humans, they would be more advanced than us. Of course, this isn't true. Just on Earth, there are many species that have existed far longer than humans, and yet we are the only species to have made the advancements we have. The advancements our species have made have been largely the result of blind luck, discoveries made by single individuals who often times weren't even looking to make the discoveries they made. Most of the technological advances have occured in the last two hundred years, after many millenia of ebb and flow between so called advancements and ignorance (compare the Dark Ages, for instance, with the Roman Empire). So, it may be that we Earthings are unique in our scientific/technological advancements/knowledge in the universe. It was a highly improbably occurance to begin with. In any case, I think that the probability that a species exists that could travel the vastness of the universe to find Earth (or, as Alec suggested, that even if they possessed those advancements that they would even find Earth) is highly unlikely.

Evolutions primary goal is not intelligence but rather survival. We would of course be speaking only of those species that had evolved a sufficient level of intelligence to formulate complex thoughts and have a way to record and pass down that information to the next generation. This is where evolutions effects on the advancement of a species ends however and intelligence and cognitive thought take over. Any species who can advance technology - will advance technology and it is driven out of need and curiosity.

[HILife]

80 percent believe that somewhere out there Aliens exist in some form.
Now debate on whether they have visited Earth.

I say it's 50/50

[Houshyamama]

No.

I would say mathematically impossible, but there is a non-empirical element to the universe, and I think it would be possible.

How is it mathematically impossible?

[bowtown]

Unclear what this bump has to do with Hillis.

[TotallyScrewed]

The grass is greener here.

[Lev Vyvanse]

The anti-matter is the key and the mathematics is not only possible but, given a sufficient amount of anti-matter, are likely.

With an "endless" supply of anti-matter, or the ability to create it on the go from galactic "debris" or whatever, one could accelerate a spaceship indefinitely. Never reaching the speed of light but continuing to incrementally get closer to it (99.9%, 99.99%, 99.999%). Mathematically, accelerating this way one could travel the ENTIRE universe in roughly 12 local years (relativistic effects would mean quadrillions of years on Earth, closer to the speed of light you get, slower time moves for you locally though). Acceleration at 1G, which solves the lack of gravity issue.



Anyone who said "No, Mathematically impossible" sould read this post. However, the amount of time passage outside the ship would be a problem.

[vancejohnson82]

why isn't anyone calling each other gay in this thread? I havent seen one nut dragging comment or reference to someone being retarded....

no Hillis, Cutler, Marshall, McDaniels or Shanahan reference?

this thread is lame

[jhns]

How would anti-matter propel you through the universe? It would instantly destroy any matter it touches. That means your ship and you. How would it be used as a fuel?

[jhns]

why isn't anyone calling each other gay in this thread? I havent seen one nut dragging comment or reference to someone being retarded....

no Hillis, Cutler, Marshall, McDaniels or Shanahan reference?

this thread is lame

There was a Hillis reference just above your post you dumb gay nut rubbing piece of crap.

[vancejohnson82]

There was a Hillis reference just above your post you dumb gay nut rubbing piece of crap.

and we have completed all quotas....

carry on

[Lev Vyvanse]

How would anti-matter propel you through the universe? It would instantly destroy any matter it touches. That means your ship and you. How would it be used as a fuel?

Containment would defiantly be an obstacle.

[OABB]

Containment would defiantly be an obstacle.

Just put it in an anti-antimatter jar. Duh.

[Lev Vyvanse]

Just put it in an anti-antimatter jar. Duh.

Now that we've solved that problem, we can move on to production.

[OABB]

Now that we've solved that problem, we can move on to production.

Simple. Just have matter trade hillis.

[gyldenlove]

Option 1A: Yes, they have visited, but not often or frequently as said in Option 1. It's not like Earth (as far as I know) is a galactic McDonald's drive-through or something.

The hangup many of us have about the possibility of visitation is the distance between stars and the immense amounts of time traveling by conventional means from here to there. I'd think we're being a bit short-sighted about that.

My feeling is that the next breakthrough in space travel, when we find it, will seem to come right out of left field somewhere. It'll be the work of a team, a department, maybe even a single scientist who's able to suspend her preconceptions about our understanding of physics to see a whole new way of doing things. Something that we just haven't seen yet, but the math adds up so that 2+3+1+1=7 as surely as 1+1+1+1+1+1+1=7.

My guess is that The Discovery will look something like quantum entanglement: the realization that distance is an illusion of scale, but the underlying... nature... of the beast is infinite and eternal on the near, short end as much as the long, far end. We're seeing first experiments already with quantum entanglements, where a variation in the motion of one particle instantly changes the motion of its entangled partner. The distance between them does not seem to matter. The current experiments have an eye toward possible development of quantum communications and computing. The theories in place now might be enough to support the development of a simple quantum Morse code.

Just as an off-hand, first-try thought: what would it mean to have instantaneous data transfer and command capabilities with the satellites studying Saturn? Quantum communications like that might not be subject to the speed of light limits. Remember that the speed of light is, by definition, the speed of light in relation to the observer and environment of the observation.

If the speed of light is a chalk streak across a chalkboard, does the speed of light apply to sending a ripple of energy through the chalkboard itself?

Whatever "The Discovery" proves to be, it's going to challenge (and possibly change) everything we think we know about ourselves and the universe. And all of a sudden, we just might find that Alpha Centauri really is "just around the corner and down four blocks" after all.

2 quick physics notes on that.

1. It has not been proven yet that entanglement does break non-locality given that the entangled particles have been able to exchange information about their states when they were created.

2. The speed of light is not relative to an observer but is identical for any reference frame, this is due to time dilation and length contraction.

[colonelbeef]

There is nothing on earth that compares to how time and distance relate in space. We are seeing stars shining bright in the sky tonight that blew up a few million years ago. As we currently understand things, it would be impossible to travel from one planet to another in another galaxy.

Would you want to meet a being from another planet? Its not going to be like ET. I tend to agree with Hawking. We cannot assume aliens would be benign. They would come here to take what they need and move on...like ID4, but without a wisecracking pilot and an eco-nerd who is also a hacker saving the planet.

:Broncos:

the idea of man walking on the moon was thought to be absurd as recently as the 50's though. Accepted potential reality changes along with science.

I personally believe that extraterrestrial races must exist, mathematics dictates as such.

If they do, in the numbers and varying levels of advancement that the very same math predicts, than the idea that they have been to Earth is a reasonable likelihood.

Therefore I personally believe that beings from other planets have indeed been here. We've already been to Mars, and we are much younger than many of these ETs must be.

[OABB]

2 quick physics notes on that.

1. It has not been proven yet that entanglement does break non-locality given that the entangled particles have been able to exchange information about their states when they were created.

2. The speed of light is not relative to an observer but is identical for any reference frame, this is due to time dilation and length contraction.

Good points. Also, would gandalf really beat Harry potter in a wizard duel?

[gyldenlove]

Good points. Also, would gandalf really beat Harry potter in a wizard duel?

Yes he would, Harry Potter is still in school and Gandalf can ensure Potter will never pass.

Ultimately I think we can all agree that in a battle-royale of wizards Oscar Zoroaster Phadrig Isaac Norman Henkel Emmannuel Ambroise Diggs would win.

As for containment of antimatter, with strong enough laser and magnetic fields it can be contained, but ultimately containment is not the interesting part, the interesting part would be operating a huge magnetic ram scoop to gather up anti particles and focus them into a point where a stream of regular particles are injected, the annihilation will produce energy which can be absorbed and used for thrust.

[OABB]

Yes he would, Harry Potter is still in school and Gandalf can ensure Potter will never pass.

Ultimately I think we can all agree that in a battle-royale of wizards Oscar Zoroaster Phadrig Isaac Norman Henkel Emmannuel Ambroise Diggs would win.

As for containment of antimatter, with strong enough laser and magnetic fields it can be contained, but ultimately containment is not the interesting part, the interesting part would be operating a huge magnetic ram scoop to gather up anti particles and focus them into a point where a stream of regular particles are injected, the annihilation will produce energy which can be absorbed and used for thrust.
All I understood was "thrust."

[Boomhauer]

There's zero evidence of such, but ALH84001 could prove to have brought dead aliens to Earth.
From Astrobiology.com
"In August 1996, our research team made a rather profound claim: evidence of fossilized life found within a meteorite (ALH84001) blasted off the surface of Mars. Where there's fossils, one can surmise there was once life. To be confident that a sample (from this or any other planet) contains evidence of past life or biogenic activity (i.e. the byproducts of organisms) one must determine beyond a shadow-of-doubt that certain well-established features or "biomarkers" (life's signatures) are present in the sample.

In the case of Martian samples, the criteria for past life have not yet been established yet. The reason for this is simple: if life existed on Mars, we currently have no way of knowing much - if anything - about its nature, ecology, or evolution. Such a detailed history (if it exists) will not be unraveled until we've spent a fair amount of time on Mars with robots and eventually humans. ..."

[Lev Vyvanse]

The speed of light is not relative to an observer but is identical for any reference frame, this is due to time dilation and length contraction.

That is kind of backwards, is it not? Time dilation and length contraction is due to the constant speed of light, one of the two postulates of special relativity

[NUB]

I once saw aircraft during night that acted regardless of normal physics before disappearing from plain sight. Either aliens are roaming about, or our military has some really kickass weaponry they're keeping secret.

[Bronco Yoda]

The Sumerian Culture, which dates back to 6,000 BC, is the oldest known culture on Earth. Interesting what they write about the Anunnaki in their tablets and carvings.

Google Sumerian and Anunnaki and decide for yourself.

[HILife]

2 quick physics notes on that.

1. It has not been proven yet that entanglement does break non-locality given that the entangled particles have been able to exchange information about their states when they were created.

2. The speed of light is not relative to an observer but is identical for any reference frame, this is due to time dilation and length contraction.

Is everybody on the OM a theoretical physics?

[Bronco Yoda]

No, but we all have stayed at a Holiday Inn. gyldenlove lives there now that the misses kicked him out. :)

[Inquisitive Encyclopedic Insomniac]

Of course they visited, they come all the time. They just keep waiting to find intelligent life. I think they have a poll as too how far backwards our intelligence as a species is going