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View Full Version : Best Starting Pitcher in baseball?


FADERPROOF
05-04-2010, 06:07 PM
Figure this deserves its own thread, and one that Rockies fans have every right to homer it up on...

Ubaldo Jimenez: 6-0 0.87 ERA

Roy Halladay: 5-1 1.47 ERA

Tim Lincecum: 4-0 1.11 ERA

Fransisco Liriano: 4-0 1.50 ERA

C.C. Sabathia 4-1 2.74

UberBroncoMan
05-04-2010, 06:10 PM
Right now it's Ubaldo, hands down. But in reality it's probably Lincecum when it's all said and done.

backup qb
05-04-2010, 06:11 PM
Adam Wainwright and Chris Carpenter should at least make the list.

SouthStndJunkie
05-04-2010, 06:12 PM
Ubaldo is off to a great start, but Tim Lincecum gets the nod.

Doggcow
05-04-2010, 06:13 PM
No Cliff Lee, Zach Griengke, Felix Hernandez?

extralife
05-04-2010, 06:13 PM
Right this minute it's Ubaldo, but the responsible answer is probably Halladay, maybe Lincecum.

extralife
05-04-2010, 06:15 PM
No Cliff Lee, Zach Griengke, Felix Hernandez?

Johan Santana should be on there too, even if he hasn't been great in a couple years. Maybe Josh Beckett.

FADERPROOF
05-04-2010, 06:17 PM
Adam Wainwright and Chris Carpenter should at least make the list.

Wonder if you're a Cards fan...

Shoemaker
05-04-2010, 06:17 PM
If we're talking right now, Ubaldo is pitching better than anybody out there.

Halladay and Lincecum are far more proven, but Ubaldo has just as much talent as they do. If he's finally harnessed it and this start isn't a fluke (and I don't see any reason why it would be), then he certainly could be the best.

Plus, I'm a massive Rockies homer, so that explains my vote.
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FADERPROOF
05-04-2010, 06:18 PM
No Cliff Lee, Zach Griengke, Felix Hernandez?

You do realize that this poll can be about 15 pitchers deep right? If you think its one of them then click the "other" and say who it is.

SouthStndJunkie
05-04-2010, 06:18 PM
Justin Verlander is off to a slow start this year, but he belongs in the conversation.

I wouldn't rank him #1, but think he is in the top 5.

Dukes
05-04-2010, 06:19 PM
Ubaldo, although I am a Rockies homer. Love Lincecum though, I'd give anything for him to be a Rocky.

DBroncos4life
05-04-2010, 06:20 PM
Whomever it is I'm sure the Dodgers traded them away ;D

Dukes
05-04-2010, 06:20 PM
Also, Halladay is right there too. Gotta throw him in there too especially since he grew up in Denver.

RhymesayersDU
05-04-2010, 06:23 PM
Like others, I voted Ubaldo as a homer but yeah, it's Halladay or Lincecum.

Aftermath
05-04-2010, 06:24 PM
No verlander?

phillybroncosnut
05-04-2010, 06:30 PM
Right this minute Ubaldo. The last 2 years Lincecum. Over the duration of a long extended period of time, Hands down Halladay. Hes the most durable and consistently GREAT pitcher I've seen since Ryan and carlton

JCMElway
05-04-2010, 06:31 PM
I was about to say, where the hell is Verlander?

BMarsh615
05-04-2010, 06:41 PM
Greinke

Kaylore
05-04-2010, 06:59 PM
I reserve judgment until the all star break. But I have to say Rockies fans need to appreciate how well Jimenez is playing as you don't see this very often especially at Coors.

robbieopperude
05-04-2010, 07:01 PM
If I am picking one pitcher to start game 7 of the World Series it is Lincecum.

crawdad
05-04-2010, 07:08 PM
Wonder if you're a Cards fan...

Just check out their record. Damn right, I'm a Redbird fan!

spdirty
05-04-2010, 07:16 PM
Ubaldo.

azbroncfan
05-04-2010, 07:17 PM
Jimenez is pitching better than anyone by now but not by much. That being said you would trade him any day straight accross for the guy from San Fran that looks like he needs his next heroine fix before he does his second set for the night.

Mogulseeker
05-04-2010, 07:25 PM
I'm proud to be ignorant when it comes to baseball, but I did watch the 2007 World Series, and the Rockies were awful. BUT I remember thinking, this Udablo Jimenez is pretty effing good.

Cmac821
05-04-2010, 07:26 PM
I am so sad I jumped on the Red Sox in '03 and now I can't fully back the Rockies. Poor decision to not be a fan.

extralife
05-04-2010, 07:35 PM
Jimenez is pitching better than anyone by now but not by much. That being said you would trade him any day straight accross for the guy from San Fran that looks like he needs his next heroine fix before he does his second set for the night.

This is probably a better question: who would you trade Ubaldo for? Lincecum is the only guy, probably. Maybe not even then, depending on Lincecum's contract (which I don't know) given Ubaldo makes nothing.

BroncosSR
05-04-2010, 07:40 PM
No question... Halladay...

Taco John
05-04-2010, 07:46 PM
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8068/timlincecum2007007.jpg



http://gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/31/4503.end_2D00_of_2D00_thread_5F00_do_2D00_not_2D00 _post_2D00_more.jpg

spdirty
05-04-2010, 07:47 PM
Cant imagine how badass it would be if the Rox hadnt ****ed up and taken Greg Reynolds in that daft before Lincecum.

Taco John
05-04-2010, 07:51 PM
Tim Lincecum is special. I buy MLB.tv just so I can catch his games. And I don't even like the Giants. I'm a Mariners fan.

Kid A
05-04-2010, 07:53 PM
Ubaldo or Halladay so far this season. My poor Greinke...ERA of 2.27 and yet...0-3.

Since August 16, 2008, Zack Greinke has made 47 starts and he has a 2.11 ERA. he Royals record in those 46 starts? 22-25.

The Royals have been a pretty ****ty team over the last decade, but it is mind blowing that they have managed to have a losing record with one of the best pitchers in the game on the mound with an ERA just over 2. Stunning.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703866704575224340794758622.html

80smith
05-04-2010, 08:48 PM
Mark Buehrle!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cause I'm a HOMER!

Records and statistics

On April 16, 2005, he finished a game against the Seattle Mariners in only 1 hour and 39 minutes, giving up only 1 run and 3 hits (all to Ichiro Suzuki), and backed by only two White Sox runs, both homers by Paul Konerko. In the game, he threw just 106 pitches. Subtracting the time spent between innings, the game took only 63 minutes to play.

On October 25, 2005, Buehrle became the first pitcher in World Series history to start and save consecutive games.[14]

On May 14, 2006, Buehrle became the first major-league starting pitcher in over a century to allow seven runs in the first inning but then win the game. The previous time had been on September 29, 1900, when Jack Powell of the St. Louis Cardinals pitched such a game against the Chicago Orphans.[15]

On April 18, 2007, Buehrle threw a no-hitter versus the Texas Rangers at U.S. Cellular Field.

On June 14, 2009, Buehrle hit his first major league home run, off Milwaukee Brewers starting pitcher Braden Looper, becoming the first White Sox pitcher to hit a home run in a game since Jon Garland on June 18, 2006, at Cincinnati.

On July 23, 2009, Buehrle hurled a perfect game at U.S. Cellular Field against the Tampa Bay Rays.

On July 28, 2009, Buehrle established a major league record for number of consecutive hitters retired, breaking the previous record of 41 set by Jim Barr (starter) and teammate Bobby Jenks (reliever), by retiring Minnesota Twin and former teammate Joe Crede; he went on to retire the next three batters to set the record at 45 consecutive batters retired. The streak ended with a walk to Alexi Casilla, foiling another perfect game after 5 2/3 innings.

There are more, but I'll leave you with this:

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And lets not forget that any man that can catch a line drive off his forehead .... HAS to be the best pitcher in baseball!

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Go SOX! (Yeah! I know they suck!)

Pseudofool
05-04-2010, 09:00 PM
I voted Liriano because I'm a homer for my team and think he's nastier than anyone in both leagues. But the truth is you need a track record as well as recent success which narrows it down to Halladay, Lincecum, and a few pitchers not listed (Grienke, Hernedez, Santana, Wainwright). The NL is so much weaker every year than the AL that it's difficult not to scoff at the NL numbers some. We'll need to see how Halladay does when each NL team sees him a couple times, but he might be the best, with Santana struggling (another pitcher with sustained success against both leagues).

Ubaldo's been awesome, but he needs to demonstrate that over months not a single month to really be in the discussion.

400HZ
05-04-2010, 09:36 PM
I voted Liriano because I'm a homer for my team and think he's nastier than anyone in both leagues. But the truth is you need a track record as well as recent success which narrows it down to Halladay, Lincecum, and a few pitchers not listed (Grienke, Hernedez, Santana, Wainwright). The NL is so much weaker every year than the AL that it's difficult not to scoff at the NL numbers some. We'll need to see how Halladay does when each NL team sees him a couple times, but he might be the best, with Santana struggling (another pitcher with sustained success against both leagues).

Ubaldo's been awesome, but he needs to demonstrate that over months not a single month to really be in the discussion.

This is true, and it's one reason why Liriano isn't a crazy pick. Another is that he had to break in rookie catchers in two of his five starts. Twenty-three innings straight without an ER was awesome, too.

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
05-05-2010, 01:58 AM
Sample size is a big deal in baseball, a game infamous for its slumps and streaks. It's hard to put too much stock into one month of performance even though Ubaldo Jimenez is a legitimate ace and Cy Young candidate.

Tim Lincecum has been the game's best hurler since the start of the 2008 season and no other pitcher in baseball has done enough to dethrone him from that distinction.

TonyR
05-05-2010, 05:42 AM
The NL is so much weaker every year than the AL that it's difficult not to scoff at the NL numbers some.

Yup, you really have to discount every NL pitcher. The AL is considerably stronger overall and NL pitchers don't have to face the DH. Here's a recent article on the topic:

Disparity growing: Pitchers finding it easier in the NL
By Bob Nightengale, USA TODAY

In what might be baseball's worst-kept secret, the disparity between the American and National leagues appears to only be growing.
"There's a significant gap," Oakland Athletics general manager Billy Beane says, "and probably every GM has had a conversation about it. You're crazy not to be cognizant of it. There's just too many examples."

Most notably this season, pitchers switching leagues in the offseason have proved how much easier starters have it in the NL.

Philadelphia Phillies starter Roy Halladay, out of the AL East, is mowing down the NL as if he were a reincarnation of Bob Gibson. He's 5-1 with a 1.47 ERA, pitching three complete games and two shutouts. Carlos Silva was 5-18 with a 6.81 ERA the last two years for the Seattle Mariners. Traded for outfielder Milton Bradley, he is 2-0 with a 2.90 ERA in five starts for the Chicago Cubs.

"The lineups are just so much more powerful in the AL," says Milwaukee Brewers manager Ken Macha, who managed in Oakland. "You see what happens to (the NL) guys switching leagues."

Javier Vazquez, a 15-game winner with a 2.87 ERA with the Atlanta Braves last year, is 1-3 with a 9.78 ERA for the New York Yankees, who will push back his next start. "If I was a free agent pitcher," Braves special assistant Jim Fregosi says, "I'd definitely sign with a National League team. You can lower your ERA by a point."

The Los Angeles Angels' Joel Pineiro, a 15-game winner for the St. Louis Cardinals last year, is yielding a .320 batting average and has a 5.76 ERA, allowing 21 hits and 15 earned runs in 9⅓ innings in his last two starts. Ben Sheets, after eight years with Milwaukee, is 1-3 with a 7.12 ERA for Oakland. Rich Harden, who left the Cubs, has allowed 44 baserunners in 23⅔ innings for the Texas Rangers.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2010-05-04-pitching-disparity_N.htm

colonelbeef
05-05-2010, 06:39 AM
Jesus christ guys... Jimenez is a nice player, and might be on his way to a career season, but the reigning 2X Cy young award winner and clear answer to this question is Tim Lincecum. He is flat out filthy.... Halladay and Greinke are in the mix as well.

bfoflcommish
05-05-2010, 06:54 AM
If I am picking one pitcher to start game 7 of the World Series it is Lincecum.

this is the way I went into my vote also. There is no way you would pick anyone other than Lincecum, save for maybe Halladay but even then Tim gets the nod.

MileHighMagic
05-05-2010, 08:02 AM
Doc Halladay! Just ask the hitters that face him...they all say hes the best.

cousinal11
05-05-2010, 08:50 AM
Halladay and Lincecum have been on another level for a while and Grienke has been for a year and a half or so.

I hate the Rockies, but Ubaldo has been nasty. I watched him no-hit my sucketh Braves.

He may be the next great pitcher, but someone else no one has mentioned is the kid from Tampa, David Price. He could be really good.

FADERPROOF
05-05-2010, 02:18 PM
Strange...espn did a poll question of this today(I'm one day ahead of them haha).

Their poll was 5 pitchers as well, and only difference is they had Zack Greinke instead of Francisco Liriano.

And Roy Halladay won the ESPN poll.

Smiling Assassin27
05-05-2010, 02:44 PM
Burnett's the Yankee that should be on the list. He's filthy right now.

4-0 1.99 ERA

crush17
05-05-2010, 02:50 PM
You simply cannot argue with Ubaldo right now. He's come out white hot this year...

tsr28
05-05-2010, 03:29 PM
Every pitcher on the Yankees rotation except for Javier Vazquez having stellar years so far and could easily be in the list. Amazing the worst of the 4 that are having good years is C.C. Sabathia.

19Morton77
05-05-2010, 05:41 PM
Lincecum. He has been doing it without hitting. Why you cant judge looks by a player. Dude is a phenom.

broncosteven
05-05-2010, 06:51 PM
Mark Buehrle!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cause I'm a HOMER!

Records and statistics

On April 16, 2005, he finished a game against the Seattle Mariners in only 1 hour and 39 minutes, giving up only 1 run and 3 hits (all to Ichiro Suzuki), and backed by only two White Sox runs, both homers by Paul Konerko. In the game, he threw just 106 pitches. Subtracting the time spent between innings, the game took only 63 minutes to play.

On October 25, 2005, Buehrle became the first pitcher in World Series history to start and save consecutive games.[14]

On May 14, 2006, Buehrle became the first major-league starting pitcher in over a century to allow seven runs in the first inning but then win the game. The previous time had been on September 29, 1900, when Jack Powell of the St. Louis Cardinals pitched such a game against the Chicago Orphans.[15]

On April 18, 2007, Buehrle threw a no-hitter versus the Texas Rangers at U.S. Cellular Field.

On June 14, 2009, Buehrle hit his first major league home run, off Milwaukee Brewers starting pitcher Braden Looper, becoming the first White Sox pitcher to hit a home run in a game since Jon Garland on June 18, 2006, at Cincinnati.

On July 23, 2009, Buehrle hurled a perfect game at U.S. Cellular Field against the Tampa Bay Rays.

On July 28, 2009, Buehrle established a major league record for number of consecutive hitters retired, breaking the previous record of 41 set by Jim Barr (starter) and teammate Bobby Jenks (reliever), by retiring Minnesota Twin and former teammate Joe Crede; he went on to retire the next three batters to set the record at 45 consecutive batters retired. The streak ended with a walk to Alexi Casilla, foiling another perfect game after 5 2/3 innings.

There are more, but I'll leave you with this:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/suz5PVg2ij8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/suz5PVg2ij8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

And lets not forget that any man that can catch a line drive off his forehead .... HAS to be the best pitcher in baseball!

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/L7FQ29trQUs&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/L7FQ29trQUs&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Go SOX! (Yeah! I know they suck!)

If I needed a lefty to start a WS I would take Mark. Plus you got to love his pickoff move and fielding at his position. When he can locate and change speeds he is unhittable.

rmsanger
05-05-2010, 07:02 PM
I'm sorry but anybody saying the words best pitcher in baseball but including those in the NL knows nothing of the sport. The NL is like the minor league for pitching, GTFO.

sixtimeseight
05-05-2010, 08:15 PM
That is the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever read. So if you took the best pitcher in the AL, and put him in the NL, he wouldn't be the best pitcher anymore? Your talent just magically goes away when you switch leagues? So Halladay was the best pitcher in baseball last year, but magically lost all his talent when he switched leagues? Jesus ****ing christ, think before you post such garbage.

Taco John
05-05-2010, 08:16 PM
If I needed a lefty to start a WS I would take Mark. Plus you got to love his pickoff move and fielding at his position. When he can locate and change speeds he is unhittable.

I like Buehrle, but I'd start Cliff Lee over him in any situation, ESPECIALLY the World Series.

UberBroncoMan
05-05-2010, 10:17 PM
That is the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever read. So if you took the best pitcher in the AL, and put him in the NL, he wouldn't be the best pitcher anymore? Your talent just magically goes away when you switch leagues? So Halladay was the best pitcher in baseball last year, but magically lost all his talent when he switched leagues? Jesus ****ing christ, think before you post such garbage.

Actually pitchers tend to be BETTER when they switch leagues since the batters aren't used to them.

TonyR
05-06-2010, 07:06 AM
Actually pitchers tend to be BETTER when they switch leagues since the batters aren't used to them.

Actually pitchers tend to be better when they switch from the AL to the NL, and worse when they switch from the NL to the AL. Refer to the article I posted earlier in this thread. This isn't something new.

NeverBeenToDenver
05-06-2010, 07:56 AM
The American League is a total farce. Down with the DH! 40 plus years later, it's fair to say it ruins things..the residual effect of the DH rears its ugly head in the form of imbalanced leagues.

Peoples Champ
05-06-2010, 07:57 AM
you gotta go ubaldo, im not sure if it will last or not, but up to this point in the season, hands down ubaldo especially with the no hitter

SonOfLe-loLang
05-06-2010, 08:11 AM
Actually pitchers tend to be better when they switch from the AL to the NL, and worse when they switch from the NL to the AL. Refer to the article I posted earlier in this thread. This isn't something new.

Yes, I dont know how someone could argue differently. The AL is a hitters league and pitchers have to contend with a DH.


And the answer is Lincecum hands down.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-06-2010, 08:12 AM
The American League is a total farce. Down with the DH! 40 plus years later, it's fair to say it ruins things..the residual effect of the DH rears its ugly head in the form of imbalanced leagues.

Its also extended the careers of some great hitters. i like it.

v2micca
05-06-2010, 08:41 AM
Its also extended the careers of some great hitters. i like it.

And you have just hit on one of the many reasons that I despise the DH. Washed up position players padding their career stats for another 3 to 4 years because they still have a little pop left in their bat but couldn't field a grounder to save their lives.

TonyR
05-06-2010, 08:48 AM
i like it.

I do too but mainly for a different reason. My take is that the game is far more specialized than it was many years ago. Pitchers at the MLB level have generally been focused on pitching for several years. That's their specialty and that's what they have MLB level talent to do. There are exceptions but most of them just can't swing the bat at MLB level. So why make them do it? Position players aren't made to pitch, so why should pitchers hit? Most pitcher at bats are a waste of time and the strategy surrounding hitting for pitchers is overrated. Count me strongly in the minority that prefers the DH and the AL.

colonelbeef
05-06-2010, 11:42 AM
I do too but mainly for a different reason. My take is that the game is far more specialized than it was many years ago. Pitchers at the MLB level have generally been focused on pitching for several years. That's their specialty and that's what they have MLB level talent to do. There are exceptions but most of them just can't swing the bat at MLB level. So why make them do it? Position players aren't made to pitch, so why should pitchers hit? Most pitcher at bats are a waste of time and the strategy surrounding hitting for pitchers is overrated. Count me strongly in the minority that prefers the DH and the AL.

All true.... I do like the idea of the well rounded athletes being able to contribute offensively as well however

elsid13
05-06-2010, 02:43 PM
Right now is is Halladay. By the end of the season I would would put Lester in the mix as the best starter in either league.