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Doggcow
06-08-2010, 05:16 PM
I had to put off my start for a week. Was planning on starting last week, but I was moving and ended up having no time with the move, work, and upper level classes every day. So I'm starting next week after I finish the bulk of my college work.

However, I have changed my diet (been scrubbing it a little the past week because I've been so busy though) and I've lost about 10 lbs in a month too.

Cutting out Soda alone is amazing.

elsid13
06-08-2010, 05:27 PM
I had to put off my start for a week. Was planning on starting last week, but I was moving and ended up having no time with the move, work, and upper level classes every day. So I'm starting next week after I finish the bulk of my college work.

However, I have changed my diet (been scrubbing it a little the past week because I've been so busy though) and I've lost about 10 lbs in a month too.

Cutting out Soda alone is amazing.

Soda is killer. So are blended coffee drinks.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2010, 05:29 PM
I've been exploring alternate-day fasting for 40 days now. The first month I did regular eating, now I'm doing 0-carb on eating days. Not low carb. ZERO carb. So far I've lost about 15 pounds.

Just got some Creatine, too.

Did you know you can make 0-carb pancakes?

http://i49.tinypic.com/29kqqso.jpg

SoCalBronco
06-08-2010, 05:36 PM
I've been exploring alternate-day fasting for 40 days now. The first month I did regular eating, now I'm doing 0-carb on eating days. Not low carb. ZERO carb. So far I've lost about 15 pounds.

Just got some Creatine, too.

Did you know you can make 0-carb pancakes?

http://i49.tinypic.com/29kqqso.jpg

Whole wheat pancakes?

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2010, 05:38 PM
No, zero carb pancakes. Wheat would imply carbs.

SoCalBronco
06-08-2010, 05:39 PM
No, zero carb pancakes. Wheat would imply carbs.

On a typical "no carb" day...what do you eat?

Also, do you put an emphasis on fiber in your current diet?

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2010, 05:54 PM
On a typical "no carb" day...what do you eat?

Eggs, cheese, bacon, steak, chicken, sausage, pork rinds. Heavy whipping cream has 0 carbs, too, not that I drink it straight or anything. I made 0-carb ice cream with it last night...sugar-free Jello has 0 carbs. Actually, I put some heavy whipping cream in my protein shake and holy **** it was good. Oh yeah, and of course, the pancakes. I'm gonna use the same recipe to make 0-carb hamburger buns.


Also, do you put an emphasis on fiber in your current diet?

Nope. If you drink enough water you'll be fine.

SoCalBronco
06-08-2010, 06:06 PM
Thanks, Bob.

azbroncfan
06-08-2010, 06:17 PM
No, zero carb pancakes. Wheat would imply carbs.

What are they made of? Got you eggs and protein powder.

tsiguy96
06-08-2010, 06:20 PM
just thought id throw this out, low carb and zero carb diets have been atleast preliminarily shown in studies to have a longer lasting weight loss effect than fat free diets...

makes sense too, if you think about it, but not replenishing the carbs in your body, you force your body to look to other forms of calories for energy, including body fat.

also worth nothing that in terms of total population, nearly every diet fails at some point and people go back to waht they were doing before.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2010, 06:31 PM
What are they made of? Got you eggs and protein powder.

Eggs
Cream
Splenda
Cinnamon
Nutmeg
And the secret ingredient...

http://blisstree.com/files/2009/05/pork-rinds-southern1.jpg

Crush up the rinds and then blend them until they are powder.

Mix the eggs, splenda, cinnamon, nutmeg, and cream together. Pour into your powderized pork rinds and blend it up until you have smooth pancake batter. I use a blender.

Taste awesome. Don't even need syrup.

SoCalBronco
06-08-2010, 06:34 PM
Only Bob would make pancakes out of pork rinds. ;D

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2010, 06:51 PM
Only Bob would make pancakes out of pork rinds. ;D

http://www.mrbreakfast.com/superdisplay.asp?recipeid=1175

McDman
06-08-2010, 07:08 PM
I really hated hearing the same jokes over and over again, that what sucks about using DVDs. Stick with it.

It's hard to stick with it but I haven't missed a day so far. Although a battle wages in my mind before nearly every workout because I'm so sore.


Also I had heard somewhere that zero carb diets aren't good for you. I'll have to find out where I'd read that.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2010, 07:24 PM
0-carb diets are fine. Look up the Inuits.

If you never ate carbs, you would have perfect teeth.

azbroncfan
06-08-2010, 07:49 PM
It's hard to stick with it but I haven't missed a day so far. Although a battle wages in my mind before nearly every workout because I'm so sore.


Also I had heard somewhere that zero carb diets aren't good for you. I'll have to find out where I'd read that.

It has to do with all the fats you consume that collect in your arteries.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2010, 08:22 PM
It has to do with all the fats you consume that collect in your arteries.

You can collect fat in your arteries no matter what you eat. If you eat more calories than you consume, your body stores it as fat.

azbroncfan
06-08-2010, 09:04 PM
You can collect fat in your arteries no matter what you eat. If you eat more calories than you consume, your body stores it as fat.

I am talking about the amount of saturated fat that you get in a lot of low carb diets from eating a lot of animal fats.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2010, 09:18 PM
I am talking about the amount of saturated fat that you get in a lot of low carb diets from eating a lot of animal fats.

Nope. :)

http://thefitnessinsider.menshealth.com/2007/03/lowcarb_saturat.html

If Atkins means eating lots of meat, eggs and cheese, won’t all that extra saturated fat wreck your cholesterol levels and put you on the road to heart disease?

Well, no. There’s no good evidence of that. And there’s plenty of evidence that the opposite is true--that eating more saturated fat lowers the risk for heart disease. That’s what a recent Harvard University study found: People who had the highest saturated fat intake also had the least plaque buildup on their artery walls. The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition described the findings as an “American Paradox.” In fact, in this most recent study, the Atkins dieters ate 38 percent more saturated fat than those following the Ornish diet, yet LDL cholesterol didn't rise. (Oh, and by the way, Dean Ornish has been quoted as saying that the Atkins dieters LDL cholesterol levels went up. This is simply false information.)

In this week’s news, the women on the “fatty” Atkins diet ended up with the healthiest cholesterol levels and the best blood pressure readings, compared to those on other diets, notably the famous Ornish low-fat diet. You can read more about the study findings in this special MensHealth.com report written by my colleague Geordie Bracken, which also includes a short interview with Jeff Volek, Ph.D., R.D. Jeff is an exercise and nutrition researcher at the University of Connecticut who's one of the worlds top experts on low-carb diets and saturated fats.

The saturated fat in your blood comes from both the food you eat and from your liver, which produces saturated fat. The more carbs you eat, the higher your insulin levels climb, which triggers your liver to start producing saturated fat. If you go on a low-carb diet, your insulin levels drop, and so does production of saturated fat. Also, excess carbs that can't be used for energy or stored in your muscles as glycogen (for later use), are sent off to your liver, where they're converted to triglycerides, often in the form of saturated fat. So eating a high-carb diet keeps your body's internal production of saturated fat at very high levels.

--A bonus: with low insulin levels, your body can burn more fat for energy, decreasing your sat-fat levels even more.

Jason in LA
06-08-2010, 11:26 PM
I'm on my 5th week of P90X. The first week of workouts was really tough. I was really sore and I had a hard time completing all the reps. I was in good shape before I started and lifted weights at the gym. Like any workout program it's going to be hard in the beginning, but your body adapts to it. It gets stronger and you'll get used to the movements. By the third week I could complete just about every exercise. The thing that gave me the most problems was the Ab Ripper. It took me four weeks to be able to complete every rep on every exercise. The first week I could only complete all the reps on the very first exercise. Most of the exercises were 25 reps, and I'd do 15-20. Now I'm doing them all.

So stick with it and you'll get through it. Once you get used to it then it will change a bit.

Taco John
06-08-2010, 11:39 PM
I hate Ab Ripper. I should probably stop skipping it.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2010, 11:41 PM
Working out your abs that much is a joke, anyway.

Jason in LA
06-09-2010, 12:03 AM
Ab ripper isn't as bad as it was the first week. I only do it twice a week.

Rabb
06-09-2010, 07:05 AM
awesome numbers.

thanks, I feel tremendous too...best I have felt since getting out of the service 12 years ago

Plyometrics last night...holy lord

so far though I am doing ok, sore as crap and I am sure it will continue, I LOVE the recovery drink from BeachBody though...tastes great

I am with you on Ab Ripper X, I hate it and I have only done it once...I'd say Jason my result was about what you described, I knocked the first couple sets out then was in the 15-20 range the rest of the way, I also find myself lagging a little focusing on form

bowtown
06-09-2010, 07:30 AM
Working out your abs that much is a joke, anyway.

Not sure how you consider working out your abs 15 minutes 3 times a week to be a joke. They are part of your core. Get your abs strong and everything else gets easier.

MplsBronco
06-09-2010, 07:41 AM
I hate Ab Ripper. I should probably stop skipping it.

Tony hates Ab Ripper, but he LOVES it. I actually really like it as well as the 15 mins go by really fast.

Jason in LA
06-09-2010, 07:42 AM
The hardest two exercises on the ab ripper for me were the scissor kicks and the mason twist. By the end of the second week I could do all 25 reps on all the other exercises, but those two I'd start off good but then I'd have to take a break. On the scissor kicks I'd do like the first 10 reps and then take a rest and catch back on for the final 5. Then I was able to do the first 15 reps and the final 5. When I was able to do the first 20 reps, I just went on to finish the whole thing.

Same with the mason twists. I think the first time I did it I did the first 15 reps and then the final 10. Each week I built it up until I could do all 50 reps.

So it took 4 weeks for me to be able to do each rep for each exercise. I remember that first week. Damn I probably only did about 70% of the reps.

Really thinking about it, the first week for a lot of exercises were and I didn't do as many reps as I did now. Some of the lounges, squats, pull ups and push ups were kicking my butt. I would have to stop before everybody on the video was finished. Now I'm doing as many reps as them for every exercise.

azbroncfan
06-09-2010, 08:04 AM
Not sure how you consider working out your abs 15 minutes 3 times a week to be a joke. They are part of your core. Get your abs strong and everything else gets easier.

Bob's an expert in fitness expert now.

shakenbake
04-08-2011, 09:46 PM
Just finished day 90 of p90x, very very pleased with the results. I did doubles, it kicked my ass but was worth it. Day 91 starts Monday. For round 2 I am going to focus more on building muscle.

rugbythug
04-09-2011, 07:18 AM
This is a Hair Removal Program?

tsiguy96
04-09-2011, 07:30 AM
Major props to that fella.

I'm just trying to lose weight right now, lots of cardio. Will worry about muscle afterwards. Don't get me wrong, I am doing weights, just focusing on running 6 miles or so every morning.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_best_damn_cardio_article_period

rugbythug
04-09-2011, 07:37 AM
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_best_damn_cardio_article_period

I like the articles their. But don't buy their Anabolic Garbage. All the harm of Steroids with out the results.

Drunk Monkey
04-09-2011, 08:35 AM
Congrats Shakenbake on finishing. I got about 4 weeks in and started traveling alot and fell off the wagon. I need to start up again.

tsiguy96
04-09-2011, 09:20 AM
I like the articles their. But don't buy their Anabolic Garbage. All the harm of Steroids with out the results.

yep i know, the articles though are usually spot on, some of the best guys in the country (atleast private sector) write their. this guy in particular is dead on with his thoughts, from training to diet etc.

jsco70
04-09-2011, 09:23 AM
Congrats to Shakenbake on your tranformation. P90X works. I did the program last year and continue using the workouts to maintain the results I achieved.

worm
04-09-2011, 10:12 AM
Nice job going the distance Shakenbake!

myMind
04-09-2011, 12:38 PM
Im 5' 10 and 155lbs. Im going to start trying to bulk up and put on a lot of muscle. Is diet still as important if Im not trying to lose weight? Im probably going to be hitting the gym 4 times a week, and jogging for 30 mins every other day. I think if I just drink protein shakes I can keep up my normal diet. Anybody have any experience with this type of thing?

tsiguy96
04-09-2011, 12:41 PM
Im 5' 10 and 155lbs. Im going to start trying to bulk up and put on a lot of muscle. Is diet still as important if Im not trying to lose weight? Im probably going to be hitting the gym 4 times a week, and jogging for 30 mins every other day. I think if I just drink protein shakes I can keep up my normal diet. Anybody have any experience with this type of thing?

wanna gain weight, your diet should consist of: calories, and a lot of them, regardless of where they come from. get a lot of protein, but for real, at 5'10 155, just start eating. adding a protein shake or two plus your normal diet will not be sufficient.

oubronco
04-09-2011, 03:09 PM
Congrats shakenbake

shakenbake
04-09-2011, 06:07 PM
Thanks for the encouragement! It feels good to be back in shape. Once you get past the first 30 days it isn't so bad. Now I just need to keep going!

footstepsfrom#27
04-09-2011, 06:32 PM
Don't do PX90 if you are out of shape. You'll start it and after a few mornings of waking up thinking FML what did I do, you will quit.
Right...but you can also scale it down if you want to. This thing is an ass kicker though.

Smiling Assassin27
04-11-2011, 08:04 AM
You may want to take a look at a program called 1000 Calorie Challenge by Joel Marion and Arnel Ricafranca. The workouts are top notch, IMO. The diet's pretty extreme as well but will work if you can hang. I've done P90X and LOVE it, though my last time through was a hybrid of P90X and Insanity for a higher level of intensity. P90X is the real deal, for sure.

zdoor
04-11-2011, 10:46 AM
wanna gain weight, your diet should consist of: calories, and a lot of them, regardless of where they come from. get a lot of protein, but for real, at 5'10 155, just start eating. adding a protein shake or two plus your normal diet will not be sufficient.

I agree. People always think they are eating a lot but it is usually never enough...

Steve Sewell
04-11-2011, 07:46 PM
I'm doing P90x right now...top quality. I was horribly out of shape prior to starting, it takes about a week to get into. Following the diet is a must though, and its the hardest part about sticking with the program.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 08:23 PM
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_best_damn_cardio_article_period

Fantastic article as usual from T-Nation. It's very thorough. The only points you COULD argue, is the importance of BCAAs while cutting and his info on cortisol is a little off/not nearly explanatory enough. Some cardio is very effective at preventing cortisol build up, he only talks about it in the extreme.


On the topic of diet... here's a bad ass recipe I just "perfected" for Chicken Satay with amazing macro nutrient distribution (Over 60% of the calorie breakdown is from protein, low carb and the fats are all "heart healthy fats"):

(Amounts are for 3lbs of chicken - I like to premake meals for the week so I have healthy alternatives when I get hunger cravings and dont get lazy whataburger urgers)

Take chicken, pound it pretty flat (or just buy thin sliced like I do) cut it into thin strips

Make marinade by mixing:

3 TBLSPN natty pb
3 TBLSPN brown sugar (I use the splenda variety to cut down on sugars yo)
1/2 cup olive oil
1 packet lipton onion soup mix

Mix marinade in a mixing bowl.
Toss the chicken strips in and mix it around until theyre all coated.
Toss it in the fridge to marinate for 30mins-1hr.
Remove and then weave chicken onto skewers.
Toss on grill (A lot of the sauce will run off. Don't recoat, taste is strong enough and the sauce run off will make it even lower fat/carbs)

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 08:24 PM
As for thread title: P90X and Tower200 are both for queers.

Chris
04-11-2011, 08:36 PM
Im 5' 10 and 155lbs. Im going to start trying to bulk up and put on a lot of muscle. Is diet still as important if Im not trying to lose weight? Im probably going to be hitting the gym 4 times a week, and jogging for 30 mins every other day. I think if I just drink protein shakes I can keep up my normal diet. Anybody have any experience with this type of thing?

Diet is huge if you want to gain weight. I've lifted weights for years and got very strong for my size (3 x 12 wide grip pull ups consistently + bench, squat and dead lift 225 at 6'0" ~ 165 lbs). My normal caloric intake has been around the 1500 mark (I eat a ton but I grew up in Asia so I tend to eat lower calorie foods and less meat).

I decided to finally do the calories as an experiment. In the past two months I have gone from 165 to 181 on a CLEAN 2900 calorie per day diet (by clean I mean no crap... peanut butter and oatmeal at the worst). About 7 years ago I went from 145 to 175 by eating like **** and I got genuinely fat (maybe not by American standards... but I was fat by global standards). You can't put on mass without adding fat but you can limit the fat. A lot of guys don't get this and they see the process as an excuse to pig out. Calories are essential if you want to gain size but keep them clean, which brings me to my bigger question... why do you want to gain size?

Let's look at the positives:


People that don't work out will think you've become strong all of a sudden because you're bigger (granted, I've had some strength gains like squatting up to 275 but really who the heck cares)
Some girls like bigger dudes (some girls also like strong skinny dudes)


Let's look at the negatives:


You will have to maintain a higher than normal calorie amount to keep any gains you have, which wears your organs out long term
When you hit 30 your metabolism will slow down and you will put fat on more easily anyway
You will have to limit cardio during this period, which isn't great for your health (you can alternate running at high and low speed on the treadmill to solely burn fat but you have to be careful not to overdo it)
As you get older bulky muscle is much more likely to turn into fat
All you need to maintain muscle strength at old age is STRENGTH, not size


If you want to be healthy I recommend doing loads of calisthenics (exercises using body weight like push ups and pull ups) to begin with, working on balance, CORE strength and cardiovascular health... then introducing some heavy weightlifting (if you're new to the gym I really recommend a trainer or else you risk compensating with the wrong muscles and causing imbalances that can screw with your form long term). You should always work out hard no matter what you're doing.

Now for my weird point:

Core is the most important in the bedroom (that and I'd say a heavy dose of legs because they cause a big testosterone release that will make your chick feel like rambo is attacking her... in a good way).

I really think you're better off being healthy than putting on size. A high calorie diet isn't very good for your body long term (if you want to live a really long life you're better off at 1500 per day or lower). If you're looking to get big and "cut" (two separate phases) you're looking at some serious diet experimentation, managing salt levels and other funkiness. Unless you're a professional actor / model... I think that's ultimately not worth it. You can still get very strong and stay at a similar weight.

The choice is yours!

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 08:41 PM
Diet is huge if you want to gain weight. I've lifted weights for years and got very strong for my size (3 x 12 wide grip pull ups consistently + bench, squat and dead lift 225 at 6'0" ~ 165 lbs). My normal caloric intake has been around the 1500 mark (I eat a ton but I grew up in Asia so I tend to eat lower calorie foods and less meat).

I decided to finally do the calories as an experiment. In the past two months I have gone from 165 to 181 on a CLEAN 2900 calorie per day diet (by clean I mean no crap... peanut butter and oatmeal at the worst). About 7 years ago I went from 145 to 175 by eating like **** and I got genuinely fat (maybe not by American standards... but I was fat by global standards). You can't put on mass without adding fat but you can limit the fat. A lot of guys don't get this and they see the process as an excuse to pig out. Calories are essential if you want to gain size but keep them clean, which brings me to my bigger question... why do you want to gain size?

Let's look at the positives:


People that don't work out will think you've become strong all of a sudden because you're bigger
Some girls like bigger dudes (some girls also like strong skinny dudes)


Let's look at the negatives:


You will have to maintain a higher than normal calorie amount to keep any gains you have, which wears your organs out long term
When you hit 30 your metabolism will slow down and you will put fat on more easily anyway
You will have to limit cardio during this period, which isn't great for your health (you can alternate running at high and low speed on the treadmill to solely burn fat but you have to be careful not to overdo it)
As you get older bulky muscle is much more likely to turn into fat
All you need to maintain muscle strength at old age is STRENGTH, not size


If you want to be healthy I recommend doing loads of calisthenics (exercises using body weight like push ups and pull ups) to begin with, working on balance, CORE strength and cardiovascular health... then introducing some heavy weightlifting (if you're new to the gym I really recommend a trainer or else you risk compensating with the wrong muscles and causing imbalances that can screw with your form long term). You should always work out hard no matter what you're doing.

Now for my weird point:

Core is the most important in the bedroom (that and I'd say a heavy dose of legs because they cause a big testosterone release that will make your chick feel like rambo is attacking her... in a good way).

I really think you're better off being healthy than putting on size. A high calorie diet isn't very good for your body long term (if you want to live a really long life you're better off at 1500 per day or lower). If you're looking to get big and "cut" you're looking at some serious diet experimentation, managing salt levels and other funkiness. Unless you're a professional actor / model... I think that's ultimately not worth it. You can still get very strong and stay at a similar weight.

The choice is yours!

I don't mean to be offensive or non-constructive, but that advice is pretty much all garbage and that is absolutely not "very strong for [your] size"

tsiguy96
04-11-2011, 08:45 PM
I don't mean to be offensive or non-constructive, but that advice is pretty much all garbage and that is absolutely not "very strong for [your] size"

doesnt happen often, but agreed pretty much 100%.

enjolras
04-11-2011, 08:48 PM
wanna gain weight, your diet should consist of: calories, and a lot of them, regardless of where they come from. get a lot of protein, but for real, at 5'10 155, just start eating. adding a protein shake or two plus your normal diet will not be sufficient.

Yep. I've been doing Gallon of Milk a Day (GOMAD), along with just eating everything in sight. I'm finally approaching 190 (6' 1") which is exciting:)

Chris
04-11-2011, 08:48 PM
I don't mean to be offensive or non-constructive, but that advice is pretty much all garbage and that is absolutely not "very strong for [your] size"

I'm happy with my results... those aren't my maxxes... those are 8-10 rep quality sets (form, form, form) but at the end of the day it doesn't matter because if you're smart you're exercising to be healthy. It's a very American obsession to go for the perfect physique but if I had to pick between living to 100 and living to 75 because I forced my body to process 3000 calories a day just so I could look like one of the guys on the jersey shore I'd pick the former.

I also don't take creatine, BCAAs, NO2 on anything that isn't straight up protein.

Please post the pic of you flexing again.

Chris
04-11-2011, 08:49 PM
doesnt happen often, but agreed pretty much 100%.

Tsi this is your field... do you believe that it's health to eat 3000 calories a day long term?

You might find this Nat Geo study interesting

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Explain to me what you think is great strength for my size (don't reference that weird 12 year old that was super built) by the way.

I'm being open minded here guys. I just wanted to give the guy some advice with an eye for the long term. My primary concern is physical well being and longevity.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 08:56 PM
I'm happy with my results... those aren't my maxxes... those are 8-10 rep quality sets (form, form, form) but at the end of the day it doesn't matter because if you're smart you're exercising to be healthy. It's a very American obsession to go for the perfect physique but if I had to pick between living to 100 and living to 75 because I forced my body to process 3000 calories a day just so I could look like one of the guys on the jersey shore I'd pick the former.

Well, I DID say I wasn't trying to be rude, but if you want to be a dick, then sure we can go down that road.

And I'm sure those magically turn into 8-10 rep quality sets after being called on it. Also, doing 8-10 rep sets on your bread and butter compound lifts also shows you're an idiot.

3000 calories a day of proper nutrition will prolong your life a LOT more than just about anything else, just so you know.

I also don't take creatine, BCAAs on anything that isn't straight up protein.

Who said anything about creatine?! :rofl:

Btw, Just so you know, if you're taking protein powders, you're taking BCAAs bro.

Please post the pic of you flexing again.

There are tons readily available on my other forum.

tsiguy96
04-11-2011, 08:57 PM
Tsi this is your field... do you believe that it's health to eat 3000 calories a day long term?

You might find this Nat Geo study interesting

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Explain to me what you think is great strength for my size (don't reference that weird 12 year old that was super built) by the way.

I'm being open minded here guys. I just wanted to give the guy some advice with an eye for the long term. My primary concern is physical well being and longevity.

if you have different goals, and everyone does, thats fine. a trap people fall into is giving a general recommendation for everyone regardless of their goal. if someone has a goal of looking better, getting bigger and more defined, your advice is not accurate. for general health and well being, theres nothing wrong with what you are doing because while in my view its not ideal or completely efficient, it still will work. there is some limited research that shows extremely low calorie diets may increase life longevity, but any geneticist will tell you genetics has 10x more effect than your diet.

when you get into the "good diet bad diet" stuff it gets even more murky. im doing a presentation on effects of a paleo diet (ie no breads, potatoes, grains or legumes) and results are very good from what im finding. thats a completely different discussion, but just know there is a huge case that can be made for the safest long term diet to be mostly meats, fruits vegetables etc.

"great strength" for someone your size is 600+ bench press, 500+ raw, 50+ pullups. you are in shape and likely have far better strength than most of your similar sized peers, but when you start making absolute terms like great strength, you are comparing yourself to the genetic elite, thats not a good road for most people to go down because they realize just how little they have of that.

as far as the 3000 calorie thing, again its very person specific but im not sure its as bad as you think it is. goes back to your goals as well.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 09:02 PM
if you have different goals, and everyone does, thats fine. a trap people fall into is giving a general recommendation for everyone regardless of their goal. if someone has a goal of looking better, getting bigger and more defined, your advice is not accurate. for general health and well being, theres nothing wrong with what you are doing because while in my view its not ideal or completely efficient, it still will work. there is some limited research that shows extremely low calorie diets may increase life longevity, but any geneticist will tell you genetics has 100x more effect than your diet.

when you get into the "good diet bad diet" stuff it gets even more murky. im doing a presentation on effects of a paleo diet (ie no breads, potatoes, grains or legumes) and results are very good from what im finding.

"great strength" for someone your size is 600+ bench press, 500+ raw, 50+ pullups. you are in shape and likely have far better strength than most of your similar sized peers, but when you start making absolute terms like great strength, you are comparing yourself to the genetic elite, thats not a good road for most people to go down because they realize just how little they have of that.

There's no need to go that extreme on the weight.

For that weight, benching 315 once would be impressive (not jaw dropping, but impressive). As for pull ups, 40+ without kipping is impressive. Doing 3x12 of pull ups translates into a max of 15-16 (and that's giving the benefit of the doubt that arms are being locked and momentum isn't being used).

As for squatting and deadlifting 225... I get disability from the VA for shredding my knees in the Marines and still completely **** all over that. In fact, I'd call that well below average for that weight among people who even casually lift.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 09:06 PM
Hey Chris, here's a couple casual lifting girls destroying you at pull ups at 120 lbs from a competition an old Marines buddy ran last month :rofl:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BEXFuEV6_x8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-O7ZVN_gOiA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

tsiguy96
04-11-2011, 09:09 PM
There's no need to go that extreme on the weight.

For that weight, benching 315 once would be impressive (not jaw dropping, but impressive). As for pull ups, 40+ without kipping is impressive. Doing 3x12 of pull ups translates into a max of 15-16 (and that's giving the benefit of the doubt that arms are being locked and momentum isn't being used).

As for squatting and deadlifting 225... I get disability from the VA for shredding my knees in the Marines and still completely **** all over that. In fact, I'd call that well below average for that weight among people who even casually lift.


absolutely, just giving him a reference for what real great strength is.

hes lifting for general fitness, which again is fine if thats what a persons goal is, and honestly if the rest of america followed his lead we would be in way better shape as far as health goes. but i think his recommendations and the goals of what the OP and most of this thread was about dont really mesh, which is one of my pet peeves when it comes to exrx.

Chris
04-11-2011, 09:10 PM
3000 calories a day of proper nutrition will prolong your life a LOT more than just about anything else, just so you know.

More than anything else eh? Says who? Many recent studies suggest that caloric restriction and endurance training are the key to longevity because they slow the shortening of your telomeres. There's also a certain amount of common sense to the theory that if you force your organs to do more work, you're going to wear them out faster.

I'm not trying to be a dick. You're probably going to have much better results if you're loading yourself up with supplements. I don't really see the point. Are you auditioning for a role in the next Justice League movie?

As an aside, anything I have to cycle so that I don't completely screw up my body's ability to produce ATP sounds whacktastic to me. You're going with the established knowledge of the fitness world, not the medical world. There is no medical verdict on creatine supplements at this point (for one thing it adds water to your muscles... one of which is your heart) because of a lack of longitudinal data. Anyways I'm rambling.

My max squat now is 275. Forgive me is the recommend 4 reps is too much at 285 but I can handle 6-10 reps at 275. I'm not claiming to be an expert in any of this but in amongst your nutrition obsessed ramblings there is reason to be cautious about going full force into this.

All a man needs to be health really... is to do lots of calisthenics, cardio, stay active consistently and to keep stress levels down. To what extend do you agree or disagree (1500 words, 15 minutes, score out of 800)?

Chris
04-11-2011, 09:12 PM
Hey Chris, here's a couple casual lifting girls destroying you at pull ups at 120 lbs from a competition an old Marines buddy ran last month :rofl:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BEXFuEV6_x8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-O7ZVN_gOiA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If you want to swing yourself up like you're on playset you can do as many pullups as you want. If you want to activate your core and keep your legs at 90 degrees that's another story. I have my way... they have their way. I see plenty of guys at the gym doing that thinking they're doing a real pull up. Not to me, most of the regulars or any of the trainers.

I think bar height has some significance... if I use my brother's door gym at home I can do a buttload more. If I use the bar at the gym that is ~ 10+ feet tall that's another story and that's where my numbers come from.

Those also aren't wide grip pull ups. Her arms woudl ahev to be on the bottom of the downward sloping bitty bits.

This about sums up what is happening in this thread right now

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20100724/0013729e42ea0db47f8f50.jpg

Gotta go home guys. We can continue our chat tomorrow over tea and crumpets.

bowtown
04-11-2011, 09:16 PM
Those girls are a lot better at pull ups than me. I can do like 4. I'm 5'9". Is that great strength for me?

Chris
04-11-2011, 09:19 PM
"great strength" for someone your size is 600+ bench press, 500+ raw, 50+ pullups. you are in shape and likely have far better strength than most of your similar sized peers, but when you start making absolute terms like great strength, you are comparing yourself to the genetic elite, thats not a good road for most people to go down because they realize just how little they have of that.

I didn't mean to compare myself to Eddie Royal. It was more a reflection of my own personal satisfaction. The only area where I compare to the genetic elite is in wang size.

Chris
04-11-2011, 09:21 PM
As for squatting and deadlifting 225... I get disability from the VA for shredding my knees in the Marines and still completely **** all over that. In fact, I'd call that well below average for that weight among people who even casually lift.Dude I'm a hipster in New York and I weigh 180 pounds (though now I'm pretty sure I could top over 300 for 2+ reps going to 90 degrees... might have to try that for fun).

I've always thought the leg press was cheating... but I could do whatever 16 plates of 45 adds up to when I weighed 165. I was happy with that. Again... it's the leg press... meh.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 09:24 PM
More than anything else eh? Says who? Many recent studies suggest that caloric restriction and endurance training are the key to longevity because they slow the shortening of your telomeres. There's also a certain amount of common sense to the theory that if you force your organs to do more work, you're going to wear them out faster.

Proper nutrition to your body isn't making it do "more work". It's a lot less work for it to process a ****load of chicken, vegetables, etc than it is for any processed foods.

I'm not trying to be a dick. You're probably going to have much better results if you're loading yourself up with supplements. I don't really see the point. Are you auditioning for a role in the next Justice League movie?

I don't even understand what you're rambling about? I don't even really use "supplements"...

As an aside, anything I have to cycle so that I don't completely screw up my body's ability to produce ATP sounds whacktastic to me. You're going with the established knowledge of the fitness world, not the medical world. There is no medical verdict on creatine supplements at this point (for one thing it adds water to your muscles... one of which is your heart) because of a lack of longitudinal data. Anyways I'm rambling.

Once again... who's talking about creatine? Did someone recommend taking creatine? I know I sure as **** haven't...

My max squat now is 275. Forgive me is the recommend 4 reps is too much at 285 but I can handle 6-10 reps at 275. I'm not claiming to be an expert in any of this but in amongst your nutrition obsessed ramblings there is reason to be cautious about going full force into this.

Yes, first off, that's still an embarrassing amount for a man.

Lower reps higher weight on a bread and butter excercise like squats will do more trauma to your muscle fibers and increase your metabolism more, it will also release more test and growth hormone further increasing both fat loss and muscle gain like the article Tsi posted from t-nation.

And I never said you claimed to be an expert, but YOU did post a lengthy post giving advice to the OP that was word for word terrible, so maybe you should take your own advice that you're not an expert and stfu?

All a man needs to be health really... is to do lots of calisthenics, cardio, stay active consistently and to keep stress levels down. To what extend do you agree or disagree (1500 words, 15 minutes, score out of 800)?

Sure. Being healthy, by it's definition, is far from hard. Being fit or athletic isn't either, but requires a lot more work (well, "smarter", not "more") than that.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 09:25 PM
Those girls are a lot better at pull ups than me. I can do like 4. I'm 5'9". Is that great strength for me?

I already explained last year you suck at pull ups for being chubby :)

bowtown
04-11-2011, 09:28 PM
I already explained last year you suck at pull ups for being chubby :)

Oh yeah, and weak. ****. That hasn't gotten any better.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 09:38 PM
Oh yeah, and weak. ****. That hasn't gotten any better.

At least you don't have my calves. :notthissh

They're a simple function of back strength and body weight. One of my friends is going after the world record for weighted pull ups and has a good routine for increasing them if you want it.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-11-2011, 09:44 PM
3000 calories a day of proper nutrition will prolong your life a LOT more than just about anything else, just so you know.


LMAO

3000 calories would make a lot of people fat.

BMR for a 180-pound male is less than 2,000 calories.

As you get older bulky muscle is much more likely to turn into fat


Why are you talking out your ass? It is IMPOSSIBLE for muscle to turn into fat. Hey, why don't you tell me to eat several small meals during the day and avoid eating before bed, I need to hear more ignorant cliches.

bowtown
04-11-2011, 09:51 PM
At least you don't have my calves. :notthissh

They're a simple function of back strength and body weight. One of my friends is going after the world record for weighted pull ups and has a good routine for increasing them if you want it.

Ha! I forgot about your 12 year-old girl calves. I'd love to check out that program. PM it to me when you get a chance.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 09:55 PM
LMAO

3000 calories would make a lot of people fat.

BMR for a 180-pound male is less than 2,000 calories.

No...

The SEDENTARY resting rate for a 30 year old, 6 foot, 180 lb male is 2423 calories. Start adding even moderate physical activity and you'll eclipse 3k pretty quick.

...but it's cute to see you try and correct me when you're so new to this tubby.

Here's a link to the most comprehensive and best Metabolism forecaster I've ever seen so you can help elevate yourself further. Hope you haven't relapsed (serious).

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=114980801&page=27

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 09:58 PM
Ha! I forgot about your 12 year-old girl calves. I'd love to check out that program. PM it to me when you get a chance.

No problem. Shot him an email about it because I'm too lazy to look it up in my email folder.

I'll PM it to you tomorrow. If I forget, PM me and I'll have it.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-11-2011, 10:30 PM
No...

The SEDENTARY resting rate for a 30 year old, 6 foot, 180 lb male is 2423 calories. Start adding even moderate physical activity and you'll eclipse 3k pretty quick.

...but it's cute to see you try and correct me when you're so new to this tubby.

Here's a link to the most comprehensive and best Metabolism forecaster I've ever seen so you can help elevate yourself further. Hope you haven't relapsed (serious).

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=114980801&page=27

That's interesting. So all the online BMR calculators are wrong?

And no, I haven't relapsed. Lifestyle change, brah.

TheReverend
04-11-2011, 10:44 PM
That's interesting. So all the online BMR calculators are wrong?

And no, I haven't relapsed. Lifestyle change, brah.

If you slept as long as you possibly could and then laid completely motionless in bed and also didn't eat anything (BMR requires post-absortive state), then it would be dead on.

The calculator I linked to you is ridiculously comprehensive and can factor in every detail you can imagine (how spicy your food is, what climate you live in, a WIDE variety of activities, stimulants etc).

Mogulseeker
05-10-2013, 09:11 PM
I thought I'd bump this.... I'm seriously thinking of starting p90x.

My dad was a wrestler, and as most of you know I'm a fairly stocky dude for my height - wide frame, but pretty good muscle definition. Not a body builder by any means, but certainly stronger than average, and definitley more buff than most people as short as I am.

In the Navy I was 5'7" 185 at my heaviest --- with a 31" waist - never larger than 32".
Now I'm 5'7" and 172 --- with a 34"waist.

So since my military days when I was training at least 2 hours a day, I've actually lost weight, but gained inches.

For the first time in my life, I can actually pinch some fat in my mid section.

That wont fly.

So.... P90X - worth it?

rugbythug
05-11-2013, 08:18 AM
I lifted hard for a decade. The hard part is retraining your diet to be OK at a lower calorie level. My shoulders are crap now.

Don't mess with steroids.

Smilin Assassin
05-11-2013, 08:35 AM
Neither!

Broncos workout for the win. :D

orinjkrush
05-11-2013, 09:06 AM
P90X...yes
P90X2...no
Insanity...yes