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View Full Version : Where Are We Headed? The Spread Offense.


Rohirrim
04-27-2010, 09:44 AM
With the drafting of Tebow, Thomas, Decker, etc. and Knowshon (a great, pass catching RB) last year, it's pretty clear where we're going. For those who want a primer on the concept, or a little history, check this out:
http://www.spreadoffense.com/ssp/news?news_id=52


8) Josh McDaniels - New England Patriots (2005-2008), Denver Broncos (2009-present)

Josh McDaniels will go down in spread offense lore as the offensive coordinator who lead the New England Patriots 2007 offensive squad to 67 touchdowns (50 passing and 17 rushing) and 589 total points.

The New England Patriots in 2007 became the first NFL team to pass more than half the time from the shotgun spread offense formation. That offense was perhaps the most dynamic single season group in NFL history.

spdirty
04-27-2010, 09:55 AM
By God!

NFLBRONCO
04-27-2010, 10:02 AM
We still lack speed on offense though. Denver needs a home run threat rb.

DawnBTVS
04-27-2010, 10:12 AM
I'm not that surprised, honestly. Even in 2001-2004, Charlie Weis was using a lot of 3 and 4 WR sets and wasn't afraid to split out a Kevin Faulk as an empty 5 WR set. The biggest difference is that Josh McDaniels just utilized those sets almost 80% of the game it seemed and it paid off.

People forget that Atlanta with the Run & Shoot was the first team to have a 4,000 yard passer, a 1,000 yard rusher, and three 1,000 yard receivers.

Now with the spread, it's essentially a really fine tuned R&S without the on the fly reading of the defense by every offensive player. Personally, I think it's a very underused offense in the NFL. Indianapolis runs a lot of 3 WR sets and essentially uses Dallas Clark as a 4th WR and their offense year in/year out has been amazingly effective.

Josh is slowly accumulating enough weapons at every position that he can afford to force the defense to go sideline to sideline and account for 3 WRs, 1 RB, and a TE (or 4 WRs and 1 RB, etc.). You hear how a team has to "shut down Randy Moss" or "shut down LaDainian Tomlinson" but the best thing about the evolving into the spread is that if you try to shut down one option, someone else can legit burn you. In New England, it got to the point where if you shut down Moss, you'd get Welker. If you tried to shut down both, you'd suddenly be giving up big plays to the 3rd WR (Stallworth/Gaffney) or the RB.

Denver last year really had just Brandon Marshall. This year, hopefully, the Broncos will have both Demaryius Thomas and Jabar Gaffney (who's shown big play ability) on the outside with the defense also having to account for Royal in the slot underneath. On top of those three options, there's also Knowshon Moreno out of the backfield and Correll Buckhalter, both proven receiving options.

Popps
04-27-2010, 10:15 AM
We still lack speed on offense though. Denver needs a home run threat rb.

I don't think the Pats had one during their record-setting year. I agree with you, however.

I would have liked to see a later round pick used on a speed-back/3rd down guy who we could groom to stick around for a while.

Rohirrim
04-27-2010, 10:15 AM
I'm not that surprised, honestly. Even in 2001-2004, Charlie Weis was using a lot of 3 and 4 WR sets and wasn't afraid to split out a Kevin Faulk as an empty 5 WR set. The biggest difference is that Josh McDaniels just utilized those sets almost 80% of the game it seemed and it paid off.

People forget that Atlanta with the Run & Shoot was the first team to have a 4,000 yard passer, a 1,000 yard rusher, and three 1,000 yard receivers.

Now with the spread, it's essentially a really fine tuned R&S without the on the fly reading of the defense by every offensive player. Personally, I think it's a very underused offense in the NFL. Indianapolis runs a lot of 3 WR sets and essentially uses Dallas Clark as a 4th TE and their offense year in/year out has been amazingly effective.

Josh is slowly accumulating enough weapons at every position that he can afford to force the defense to go sideline to sideline and account for 3 WRs, 1 RB, and a TE (or 4 WRs and 1 RB, etc.). You hear how a team has to "shut down Randy Moss" or "shut down LaDainian Tomlinson" but the best thing about the evolving into the spread is that if you try to shut down one option, someone else can legit burn you. In New England, it got to the point where if you shut down Moss, you'd get Welker. If you tried to shut down both, you'd suddenly be giving up big plays to the 3rd WR (Stallworth/Gaffney) or the RB.

Which is why I predict Royal is going to have a very good season.

Chris
04-27-2010, 10:15 AM
Does anyone know what kind of O the 98 Vikings and the 99 Rams ran?

DawnBTVS
04-27-2010, 10:22 AM
Does anyone know what kind of O the 98 Vikings and the 99 Rams ran?

Both ran what's commonly referred to as the "Air Coryell" system I believe. It's basically the offense that Norv Turner is running over in San Diego with a lot of 2-3 WR sets, deep passes down the field, and balance it with a power running game inside (or offtackle).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Coryell

And out of boredom here's a quick "off the top of my head" list of the major offenses and the predominant coaches of them...

Air Coryell: Sid Gillman, Don Coryell, Mike Martz, Al Saunders, Joe Gibbs, Norv Turner, Brian Billick, Al Davis, Ernie Zampese
Air Raid Offense: Mike Leach, Hal Mumme
Run and Shoot: Mouse Davis, June Jones, Jerry Glanville, Kevin Gilbride (more so during the 1990's), Chris Palmer (more so during the 1990's)
Spread Option: Urban Meyer
Spread Passing: Joe Tiller, Josh McDaniels (to an extent)
West Coast: Bill Walsh, Jon Gruden, Mike Holmgren, Andy Reid, Marty Mornhinweg, George Seifert

Teams like New England (and now Denver) predominantly run "Spread Pass" offenses. Indianapolis runs a "Spread Pass" but uses a lot of routes made famous in the Run & Shoot offense (particularly the Switch Route where receivers criss cross off the line of scrimmage). The main R&S route run in NE and Denver is usually the Slot WR and the Option Route, which is the WR reading the defense and going where the guy isn't.

Rohirrim
04-27-2010, 12:49 PM
I'm of the opinion now that one of the QBs (and it won't be Tebow) will be traded for 2011 picks (or a good ILB) some time before the season starts. McDaniels has enough pieces in place now to go for the the full spread offense in 2010 with Tebow at QB. The only way this doesn't happen is if Tebow can't hack it and/or the receivers aren't ready to go, and McD is forced to drop back to some kind of hybrid. If there is one thing that Josh has shown, he likes to go all in on his bets. Expect Tebow to take the first snap in the shotgun spread in J'Ville on September 12th.

baja
04-27-2010, 12:59 PM
I'm of the opinion now that one of the QBs (and it won't be Tebow) will be traded for 2011 picks (or a good ILB) some time before the season starts. McDaniels has enough pieces in place now to go for the the full spread offense in 2010 with Tebow at QB. The only way this doesn't happen is if Tebow can't hack it and/or the receivers aren't ready to go, and McD is forced to drop back to some kind of hybrid. If there is one thing that Josh has shown, he likes to go all in on his bets. Expect Tebow to take the first snap in the shotgun spread in J'Ville on September 12th.


This is what I have been saying except I think we will carry 3 QBs into the season and TB on the practice squad with a QB trade made during the season when someone's QB goes down.

Rohirrim
04-27-2010, 01:03 PM
This is what I have been saying except I think we will carry 3 QBs into the season and TB on the practice squad with a QB trade made during the season when someone's QB goes down.

I think Brandstater would get snatched off the practice squad pretty quick. Josh would have to carry all four into the season. I think by the time the season rolls around, one of them will be gone.

jmz313
04-27-2010, 01:11 PM
Yeah, i highly doubt TB would be able to be stashed on PS for long. Someone gonna go PUP with a hang nail, then if no space clears up, to IR. thats my guess.

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
04-27-2010, 01:12 PM
It's no secret that Denver was running parts of spread offense last season and is headed towards a heavier dose of it. A good chunk of Denver's rushing game was run out of the shotgun last season. In fact, 68% of all plays on offense in 2009 were run out of the shotgun formation.

I would love to see Tebow fake the hand off to Moreno, pull it back and then have the option to run it himself or chuck it!

It's going to be exciting times ahead.

Rohirrim
04-27-2010, 01:14 PM
It's no secret that Denver is running a spread. A good chunk of Denver's rushing game was run out of the shotgun last season. In fact, 68% of all plays on offense in 2009 were run out of the shotgun formation.

I would love to see Tebow fake the hand off to Moreno, pull it back and then have the option to run it himself or chuck it!

It's going to be exciting times ahead.

Imagine the sound coming out of the stands in J'Ville when Tebow comes out for his first snap? The Broncos will think they're at a home game. Ha!

Bronco Yoda
04-27-2010, 01:17 PM
We still lack speed on offense though. Denver needs a home run threat rb.

What... you're not worshipping Moreno like some here? You're bound to get tarred and feathered.

baja
04-27-2010, 01:28 PM
Yeah, i highly doubt TB would be able to be stashed on PS for long. Someone gonna go PUP with a hang nail, then if no space clears up, to IR. thats my guess.


Yes this is a safer option, I agree.

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
04-27-2010, 01:31 PM
Imagine the sound coming out of the stands in J'Ville when Tebow comes out for his first snap? The Broncos will think they're at a home game. Ha!

At first, I thought that was going to be a tough game since Denver never plays well in the humidity of Florida, but the crowd will balance out the disadvantage.

It might be worth shelling out a few bucks to head down there to watch Tebow play his first game if he indeed wins the job coming out of training camp.

DawnBTVS
04-27-2010, 01:53 PM
It's no secret that Denver was running parts of spread offense last season and is headed towards a heavier dose of it. A good chunk of Denver's rushing game was run out of the shotgun last season. In fact, 68% of all plays on offense in 2009 were run out of the shotgun formation.

Found this interesting as I didn't know the 68% fact.

Where'd you find that?

broncosteven
04-27-2010, 02:05 PM
Both ran what's commonly referred to as the "Air Coryell" system I believe. It's basically the offense that Norv Turner is running over in San Diego with a lot of 2-3 WR sets, deep passes down the field, and balance it with a power running game inside (or offtackle).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Coryell

And out of boredom here's a quick "off the top of my head" list of the major offenses and the predominant coaches of them...

Air Coryell: Sid Gillman, Don Coryell, Mike Martz, Al Saunders, Joe Gibbs, Norv Turner, Brian Billick, Al Davis, Ernie Zampese
Air Raid Offense: Mike Leach, Hal Mumme
Run and Shoot: Mouse Davis, June Jones, Jerry Glanville, Kevin Gilbride (more so during the 1990's), Chris Palmer (more so during the 1990's)
Spread Option: Urban Meyer
Spread Passing: Joe Tiller, Josh McDaniels (to an extent)
West Coast: Bill Walsh, Jon Gruden, Mike Holmgren, Andy Reid, Marty Mornhinweg, George Seifert

Teams like New England (and now Denver) predominantly run "Spread Pass" offenses. Indianapolis runs a "Spread Pass" but uses a lot of routes made famous in the Run & Shoot offense (particularly the Switch Route where receivers criss cross off the line of scrimmage). The main R&S route run in NE and Denver is usually the Slot WR and the Option Route, which is the WR reading the defense and going where the guy isn't.

1st off Gillman taught Don Coryell and Bill Walsh so it is more of a Sid Gillman tree until Walsh learned/tuned what would become "west coast" from Paul Brown.

Joe Gibbs was more protection oriented HC who believed in timing and beating man one on one but his run games setup his passing attack where as Gilman and Coryell used the pass to setup the run and used run plays to keep D's honest.

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
04-27-2010, 02:10 PM
Found this interesting as I didn't know the 68% fact.

Where'd you find that?

Ed Werder reported it on Friday from Broncos headquarters.

Doggcow
04-27-2010, 02:21 PM
What... you're not worshipping Moreno like some here? You're bound to get tarred and feathered.

Worshiping? Dude had no Oline at all. Give him a chance before you blast him.

I think most people here are just expecting him to have a solid season, not 2k or anything.

broncosteven
04-27-2010, 02:44 PM
Worshiping? Dude had no Oline at all. Give him a chance before you blast him.

I think most people here are just expecting him to have a solid season, not 2k or anything.

1k-1200 would be nice with more TD's than fumbles.

lookin' glass
04-27-2010, 02:51 PM
Speaking of the OL, it needs to be better than last year for any offense to succeed.

Rohirrim
04-27-2010, 02:54 PM
Speaking of the OL, it needs to be better than last year for any offense to succeed.

Of course, this will be decided in camp, but with Harris back and the additions of Beadles, Walton and Olsen, I think this Oline will make a considerable leap.