For Sale: The American Voter

[alkemical]

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61543,00.html?tw=wn_story_page_prev2

One of the nation's largest commercial distributors of voter data sold voter-registration lists featuring detailed personal information without verifying the identity or intent of buyers.

Aristotle International used a website to sell the lists, which contain details about registered voters from nearly every state. The data includes birth dates, home addresses, phone numbers, race, income levels, ethnic backgrounds and, in some cases, religious affiliations.

[watermock]

California fines users 50 cents per voter record. South Carolina caps the fine at $500, with up to a year in prison for violators

I am sure that has been strictly enforced. Bush and Dean have both given the finger to any sort of responsibility because of our outdated system.

Hell, they were trying to hand Dean the nomination and it's still two weeks before a preliminary caucus in the tiny state of Iowa.

Let me explain how the Iowa caucus works, it's reall democracy at it's worst. They give you a trip on a bus and feed you and make you feel important, then some dimwit yaps for about 25 minutes and they lead you like cattle to go make your "opinion". It was all such a disgusting abuse of the election system I told Dubya I was going outside to smoke a joint, which he didn't seem very amused about, and someone DID follow me out. Even mock isn't that stupid, but it was amusing to watch them seeth as mock lit up a Kool and laughed at them.

It's all a joke in Iowa, it's so bought it's incredible. They have freaking BUSES to send you on some sort of trip to Las Vegas.

Of course my dissention about the entire affair was looked at incredibly closely. I was terrified because I was followed after making a comment. This is now considered "political commentary" when you have to sit thru a bunch of garbage and you want to have a smoke and geeks follow you out of the building.

I didn't really notice if they had a notice you couldn't have a cig within 250 feet of a government building, I think they were just watching me like freaking Aliens.

I have no clue what Dean has been up to, but I wasn't pleased whatsoever.

[OrangeKnight]

ya that reafferms I faith in system. They also tried something like that with abortions that you have to register and be put on a list anyone can see saying you had an abortion there was a big story on a 14 year old girl who got one so as not to screw up her life Parents knew had to to get it for her she got put on list and protesters followed her everywhere and even showed up at her school to torment her make it known to all her friends and everything then some even more drastic protesters cornered her and beat her. HUGE law suit this was a while ago and different then selling voteing records but come on say there is a contriversial vote you make I dont want to go through haveing the fanatics against it or for it comeing after me so I might not vote. I do not want politicians to look at areas know specifically how everyone votes so they can cator their speaches to different groups a lot of the time saying opisate things or "implying" just to get the votes it is all bullsh*t Hate this government and what it has become it needs to be revamped Privacy used to be something it stood for. Patriot acts if you read those are just terrible basically says ya you know all those rights you thought you had yaaa they dont apply anymore.......Just sec I some guys in dark suits and sunglasses are here to talk to me about this post and my connection to Ben Ladden

[Rock Chalk]

This is why I dont vote! :cuss:

What the hell happened to privacy and common sense in this country? Liberals, conservatives, libertarians, fascists, communists, socialists, NONE OF THEM HAVE ANY FREAKIN COMMON SENSE ANYMORE!

This is annoying as hell.

[alkemical]

The system is bankrupt - there is nothing that the ruling elite fear from the people they are to serve. or as jefferson said it: "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty"

Alec knows my opinions pretty much cater towards the removal of gov't to a degree - as in not interfering with the everday lives. They are taxing us into slavery - and using the IRS to enforce such things.

Mock complains about being followed - well let me tell ya something, when i have people on the right calling me unpatrotic - when i want the gov't to fit the parameters of the constitution - how is that unpatrotic - and i can show you a link that the FBI has printed in a pamplet that 'defenders of the constitution' are a threat. I understand the real far right wingers (militia men, as just a broad example) who can be a domestic threat - but what about the guys like me who want the gov't reduced? Are we condsidered threats, are we considered unpatroitic?

I have news stories of the greens being detained at airports not being allowed on flights due to being on the 'do not fly list' - now granted there maybe some reasons i don't know of (as in socialists/communists who infiltrate the group to spread their message or sway the group that extreme) - but to me that's 'muscling' by our own gov't.

Then spending swells under president bush - i thought he was a conservative - i thought that conservatives were for 'lessening' of gov't? Not the expansion (signing a new act that allows the FBI to obtain financial records without a judges approval) - of gov't.

I just fear it's too late - All this time we were told to fear the left for they wanted to destory america - but the right has it's own agenda as well - and it's just as bad. The middle class is to be the elites servants - same as the leftists who preach more of a communist class warfare method.... the only difference is that instead of the gov't holding all the cards, big biz does -

in the war/politics thread i posted links to bechtel group getting contract worth 1.8billion, and getting a tax break, and then a link showing that Pappa Bin Laden has investments in bechtel - tell me - are we feeding the hands that bite us still? When will the old world people see this beyond the dollar signs in their eyes?

[OrangeKnight]

The biggest problem with cutting gov. agencies back is a little bill passed by Presedent Garffield or around that time that makes it very difficult to shut any of them down even if they are not needed anymore. This was passed becouse every time a new president was elected they would house clean almost every agency every gov. job and give to people that supported them a incenteve to elect them and made it easy for them to get things done their way. So they passed that to protect any gov. contract and job but backfired in that there are so many jobs out there that are not needed but they cant get rid of them becouse of it. I knew a guy who had a job basically just watching and protecting a couple missle silos here in colorado even though they are empty welded shut and striped so of no use but hey he was just one of 3 or 4 people why go through all the trouble of getting congress to pass permission to say they are not needed anymore. sighhh
I allways hear that Gov acts like pendolem swinging right then people stand up and push it left when gose to far people stand up and push it right and evens out I just wish it would hurry up and do so.

[alkemical]

I hear ya OK -

I'm an anarchist at heart, alot of people hear of that, and get scared. But really - if mankind was where it should be, we wouldn't need gov't. We'd be able to just do our own thing.

Since mankind is violent and volitale, we need rules in place. So i'm willing to comprise - but i'm one of those that feel that gov't should take a big step backwards....

seriously - when i have an IT job, i'm taxed (not just taken out, but i add up state sales tax, and all the other taxes added to stuff) and it comes out to 46% is what i'm taxed - how right is that? How right is that that you have to work from jan-june to pay off your taxes? that's slavery right there

[Rock Chalk]

I hear ya OK -

I'm an anarchist at heart, alot of people hear of that, and get scared. But really - if mankind was where it should be, we wouldn't need gov't. We'd be able to just do our own thing.

Since mankind is violent and volitale, we need rules in place. So i'm willing to comprise - but i'm one of those that feel that gov't should take a big step backwards....

seriously - when i have an IT job, i'm taxed (not just taken out, but i add up state sales tax, and all the other taxes added to stuff) and it comes out to 46% is what i'm taxed - how right is that? How right is that that you have to work from jan-june to pay off your taxes? that's slavery right there

That's just it Josh, we are not where we "should" be. Humans are irresponsible and lazy and if not for govt and the system we would be a bunch of animals running the planet. Im all for LESS government but there is a fine line between that and NO government.

Take my gun collection for example. Take my hotheaded nature with my gun collection. Now take away any consequences of me using those guns on others when my hotheaded nature takes hold.

Human beings are just incapable of governing themselves at this point.

Taxes are stupid but they are still better than what I paid in during Clinton's term. counting all the income, state, sales and other taxes during Clintons term and I paid in about 55% of my wages to taxes. Thats socialism, not republicanism. When you are paying more than half of your wages to taxes in some form or another, you have found yourself in a sad state of affairs. Clinton got all that "surplus" money from the backs of hard wokring Americans that could ill afford to be taxed any harder.

[alkemical]

Alec,

Would you rather have a surplus (which really doesn't exist) or a shortfall - How are we going to pay for the ongoing war? I am a betting man that if bush gets elected taxes will go back up - which also comes to the point, if gov't spending goes up 23% - how are they paying for it with a cut in taxes?

We might be in different tax brackets alec - but 46% is still a little closer to socialism than i like myself - personally i think anything over 30% is unacceptable

[Rock Chalk]

Anything over 20% is unacceptable regardless of who is in office.

you know, there was a time in this country where it was not legal to tax your income.

[alkemical]

heh, funny how this country was ticked off back in the day due to high taxes and decided to have a new form of gov't too :)

[Rock Chalk]

Yeah, and their breakfast beverage was tea, can you imagine the turmoil that would have been caused if they had had coffee that morning?

Good God there might not be an England left.

[alkemical]

i think alot drank ale too for breakfast

[twotimes3233]

WRONG.
We are not for sale and the same can be said for our votes.
We have ALREADY been sold out and the election in '04 has already been determined. How?
Well, try this on for size....

Bush's melding of political hardball and economic favoritism has been described as "crony capitalism," while Senator John McCain calls it war profiteering. George W. Bush's approach to military spending is a higher-priced version of what went on under the Suharto regime in Indonesia, when corporations connected to the military and the president's inner circle had the inside track on lucrative government contracts. The military budget has increased from $300 billion to more than $400 billion annually since George W. Bush took office. The Iraq invasion and occupation will cost at least another $200 billion over the next three to five years. U.S. policy is now based on what's good for Chevron, Halliburton, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and Bechtel, not what's good for the average citizen. Dick Cheney's ties to conglomerate Halliburton are the tip of the iceberg since at least thirty-two top officials in the Bush administration served as executives or paid consultants to top weapons contractors before joining the administration. In George W. Bush's Washington, it has reached the point where you can't tell the generals from the arms lobbyists without a scorecard.

This gets even worse, I pulled these comments from the website for the Center for Public Integrity and it's downright depressing.

A team of 53 researchers, writers and editors at the Center for Public Integrity gathered and analyzed tens of thousands of pages of government data obtained from the Federal Election Commission, state campaign finance regulatory bodies, and federal agencies through the Freedom of Information Act, to provide the most in-depth analysis of the large donors behind those seeking the White House. The money race has its costs, the Center found:

While he was governor of Texas, Bush relied on Enron and its then-chairman and CEO Kenneth Lay for more than just campaign contributions. When Bush needed help launching his education plan, Lay, through the auspices of a quasi-official advisory group called the Governor's Business Council, pledged his support. When Bush wanted to start an internship program in the governor's office, Lay followed through with the funding. And when Lay wanted changes to tort, tax or environmental law, Bush returned the favors.

Bush, who has signaled an interest in Social Security privatization, and even appointed a commission that concluded in December 2001 that any reform of the New Deal program should "include a system of voluntary personal accounts," numbers financial firms Merrill Lynch & Co. (his second most generous career patron), Credit Suisse First Boston (fifth), UBS Paine Webber (eighth) and Goldman Sachs Group (ninth) among his top ten patrons. All were members of a group called the Coalition for American Financial Security, which favors privatization—and the millions of individual stock market accounts (and brokerage fees to administer them) that would be created.

And of course, it's not just Bush.

While governor, Howard Dean pushed for utility contract provisions that aided the power companies, but cost Vermont families millions of dollars in skyrocketing rates. Vermont has the sixth highest utility rates in the country, due in part to a series of long-term contracts between its major power companies. After years of pushing for Central Vermont Public Service Corp. and the smaller utilities it held to absorb the excess costs of their expensive contracts, Dean's Department of Public Service agreed to let ratepayers be billed for more than 90 percent of the excess costs—which could soar into the hundreds of millions of dollars. Central Vermont Public Service Corp. donated more than $10,000 to Dean's Fund for a Healthy America PAC—a hefty contribution in a state that limits campaign contributions for statewide offices to $400.

Rep. Richard Gephardt tried to lower taxes on alcohol at least five times over the years, much to the pleasure of his largest career patron, Anheuser Busch, which has given him more than $517,000 over the years.

Senator John Kerry wrote letters to the FCC asking it to delay its spectrum auction, keeping in line with his brother's law firm, which represents the telecommunications industry and has given the senator more than $210,000.

After receiving hundreds of thousands of contributions from biotechnology companies, Senator Joseph Lieberman hired the industry's top lobbyist for his staff and went on to introduce and co-sponsor bills for which this sector lobbied.

There is SO MUCH MONEY at stake that the Republicans will stop at nothing to get Bush re-elected and they already have enough money to CRUSH any opposition. Bush is raising (are you ready?) over $500,000 each day.
That's a lot of money. And it's very important that the war on terrorism continues and that this administration gets to run it. WHY?

More than 70 American companies and individuals have won up to $8 billion in contracts for work in postwar Iraq and Afghanistan over the last two years, according to a new study by the Center for Public Integrity. Those companies donated more money to the presidential campaigns of George W. Bush—a little over $500,000—than to any other politician over the last dozen years, the Center found.

Kellogg, Brown & Root, the subsidiary of Halliburton—which Vice President Dick Cheney led prior to being chosen as Bush's running mate in August 2000—was the top recipient of federal contracts for the two countries, with more than $2.3 billion awarded to the company. Bechtel Group, a major government contractor with similarly high-ranking ties, was second at around $1.03 billion.

However, dozens of lower-profile, but well-connected, companies shared in the reconstruction bounty. Their tasks ranged from rebuilding Iraq's government, police, military and media to providing translators for use in interrogations and psychological operations. There are even contractors to evaluate the contractors.

Nearly 60 percent of the companies had employees or board members who either served in or had close ties to the executive branch for Republican and Democratic administrations, for members of Congress of both parties, or at the highest levels of the military.

The results of a six-month investigation provide the most comprehensive list to date of American contractors in the two nations that were attacked in Washington's war on terror. Based on the findings, it did not appear that any one government agency knew the total number of contractors or what they were doing. Congressional sources said they hoped such a full picture would emerge from the General Accounting Office, which has begun investigating the postwar contracting process amid allegations of fraud and cronyism.

Check out 60 minutes this Sunday.
It's going to be a very unflattering examination of the Bush cartel.

[alkemical]

Two Times - but that just means that we are living in a facist gov't environment then...

[alkemical]

For those of you who read the PNAC report -

You find it funny bush is talkin about pushing for new space exploration - when the PNAC report (written in 2000) calls for domination of space, in addition to removing hussain from power?