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View Full Version : Building a team based on morals and character


orangenblue
04-26-2010, 09:37 AM
why are we building the BYU of the NFL? Talent seems to be secondary on McD's list of ingredients included in building a winning team. If McDaniel's is gonna take the attitude that strict morals and work ethic come first and then talent second, were screwed! You need to stirke a balance. You need to be able to teach, respect, and work with players. You need to be able to develope them. Players with questionable backgrounds (Dez Bryant) but a ton talent, deserve a shot. If you build your team by striking a balance between veterans, guys with great morals and character, and guys with questionable backgrounds, your accessing the total pool of talent that the draft and free angency are offering. Questionable background guys that hang around with the veterans and high moral guys usually learn something. Give the team a chance to gel together!

What I see is a guy (McD) that is way off balance, out of whack. We have nearly ZERO outstanding talent left on this team. Everyone with talent has been sent packing. McD is way too big on good guys with high morals. I just don't see it. Why trade up to get Tebow! We should of traded up to get Rolando McClain. He makes our defense better! What does Tebow do for us this year?

Bottom line is the Broncos didn't make the team better this offseason. They made it worse.

Garcia Bronco
04-26-2010, 09:42 AM
LOL. Pathetic

bronclvr
04-26-2010, 09:52 AM
I just don't get it-Tebow is SO polarizing-what happened to American morals, values and ethics? I am very happy with this pick, and meanwhile half of America is calling the kid names.

I'll take this kid anyday. Hard work, great attitude, desire to win or work so hard that he will win. He has won so many football awards it isn't funny, then people question if he is a football player.

When I watch tape on him, he finds a way to move the ball or score-he isn't afraid of the hit, and he tries so hard-he reminds me of Elway with his grit and determination. If he can learn to read defenses we have a true, frnachise quarterback-it may not be until 2012, but tha is fine by me-I can wait.

Dukes
04-26-2010, 09:59 AM
I'm sure there's plenty of room on the Cowboys bandwagon for you.

Rohirrim
04-26-2010, 10:00 AM
He took Perrish Cox. I don't agree with the Tebow pick, just because I don't believe his game will translate to the pros. I like the Demaryius pick. I like getting smarter players, and I especially like getting bigger and meaner on the lines, and in the receiving corps. I couldn't stand another season watching the Broncos going for it on fourth and one only to get stuffed. I think people are putting too much weight on the Tebow pick. I consider it Josh's flyer. A little expensive for my tastes, but since I agree with everything else he's doing, I can live with that. Besides, getting Tebow is a marketing coup. More money means more FAs, who will start getting cut this week and during camp. IMO, you shouldn't take chances on character, medical condition, or anything else in the first round. First rounders should be as pure as you can get them. Save the gambles for the later rounds.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-26-2010, 10:02 AM
He took Perrish Cox. I don't agree with the Tebow pick, just because I don't believe his game will translate to the pros. I like the Demaryius pick. I like getting smarter players, and I especially like getting bigger and meaner on the lines, and in the receiving corps. I couldn't stand another season watching the Broncos going for it on fourth and one only to get stuffed. I think people are putting too much weight on the Tebow pick. I consider it Josh's flyer. A little expensive for my tastes, but since I agree with everything else he's doing, I can live with that. Besides, getting Tebow is a marketing coup. More money means more FAs, who will start getting cut this week and during camp. IMO, you shouldn't take chances on character, medical condition, or anything else in the first round. First rounders should be as pure as you can get them. Save the gambles for the later rounds.

But even if you don't think Tim will be a successful NFL QB, he'll immediately help in those fourth and one's you didn't like. Spreading the formation and letting him pick his spot will be a weapon for us. He seems to have a knack for it.

HAT
04-26-2010, 10:03 AM
http://files.myopera.com/draggysicyfire/albums/635234/boredcat.jpg

Popps
04-26-2010, 10:08 AM
why are we building the BYU of the NFL? Talent seems to be secondary on McD's list of ingredients included in building a winning team. If McDaniel's is gonna take the attitude that strict morals and work ethic come first and then talent second, were screwed! You need to stirke a balance. You need to be able to teach, respect, and work with players. You need to be able to develope them. Players with questionable backgrounds (Dez Bryant) but a ton talent, deserve a shot. If you build your team by striking a balance between veterans, guys with great morals and character, and guys with questionable backgrounds, your accessing the total pool of talent that the draft and free angency are offering. Questionable background guys that hang around with the veterans and high moral guys usually learn something. Give the team a chance to gel together!

What I see is a guy (McD) that is way off balance, out of whack. We have nearly ZERO outstanding talent left on this team. Everyone with talent has been sent packing. McD is way too big on good guys with high morals. I just don't see it. Why trade up to get Tebow! We should of traded up to get Rolando McClain. He makes our defense better! What does Tebow do for us this year?

Bottom line is the Broncos didn't make the team better this offseason. They made it worse.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/goldhck/R7P8bh6OywI/AAAAAAAAAfo/HKioxkQ6vc4/Elephant+Toilet.jpg

orange&blue87
04-26-2010, 10:08 AM
What I see is a guy (McD) that is way off balance, out of whack. We have nearly ZERO outstanding talent left on this team. Everyone with talent has been sent packing.

Funny quote from someone with Champ as their avatar.

It should be noted that the Broncos have essentially lost Cutler and Marshall... if that is all a team has as far as "outstanding talent", then yes it would probably be best to turn those two into picks, and give it another go in the draft because, according to your logic of only having TWO talented players, the Broncos were in trouble before McD got here.

crush17
04-26-2010, 10:08 AM
We have nearly ZERO outstanding talent left on this team.

.


fail.

The Joker
04-26-2010, 10:10 AM
You only start taking chances on character risks once you have a locker room that you know can handle it. Once you know that the guys on your roster truly are a team, and not just a bunch of guys who are all employed by the same franchise, then maybe you start taking chances on guys who might have character concerns.

At the moment he is still trying to build that unified team, and it is not something you can do overnight.

Also the notion that we have no outstanding talent on our team is hilarious.

If only we had traded up and taken a 2-down ILB in the top 6 of the draft and payed him an obscene contract, like you suggest. That would have been so, so ,so, so smart.

Rohirrim
04-26-2010, 10:10 AM
But even if you don't think Tim will be a successful NFL QB, he'll immediately help in those fourth and one's you didn't like. Spreading the formation and letting him pick his spot will be a weapon for us. He seems to have a knack for it.

Yeah, he might work as a decoy, althought he's a little pricey for that role. What I like the most is the new Oline picks. Big, mean and nasty. I love the video where Zane knocks guys down at the end of the play. And the new WRs, big and smart. Good times ahead. :thumbsup:

Irish Stout
04-26-2010, 10:11 AM
I just don't get it-Tebow is SO polarizing-what happened to American morals, values and ethics? I am very happy with this pick, and meanwhile half of America is calling the kid names.

I'll take this kid anyday. Hard work, great attitude, desire to win or work so hard that he will win. He has won so many football awards it isn't funny, then people question if he is a football player.

When I watch tape on him, he finds a way to move the ball or score-he isn't afraid of the hit, and he tries so hard-he reminds me of Elway with his grit and determination. If he can learn to read defenses we have a true, frnachise quarterback-it may not be until 2012, but tha is fine by me-I can wait.

He'd be called less names and treated more fairly if he hadn't done the pro-life commercial. A lot of people are sick and tired of hearing religious extremists everywhere trying to convince you that their philosophy, faith, and practice is the only way to lead a good life... and people see a high profile guy like Tebow doing super bowl commercials doing just that, and those who disagree with his point of view will often revolt against the man himself as a symbol of the message.

Its unfortunate that the kid gets the reaction he gets from a lot of people, but he makes a lot of people uncomfortable, tired, or annoyed because he clearly stands as a symbol of his message.

The other thing is that Tebow is such an unknown. He is one of the most decorated college QBs ever, he is the most efficient passer coming out of the SEC ever, he has the grit and determination of a true soldier on the field... this also makes people uncomfortable. They have no idea what the kid is going to do in the NFL, but he has the chance of being one of the more dangerous offensive weapons to play the game. I think that scares people. Combine that with the religious aspect and people feel compelled to pick a side. Once they pick, they realize they can't go back without losing face so they are then induced to join the dregs and the mud slingers in trying to point all of his possible flaws that they can. The exact same thing happens in politics and you absolutely saw it last year with the way people reacted to Obama and Palin - two sort of unknowns added into running for a position that has never been held by anyone other than a white man. You got extreme reactions and a lot of insults... most of which weren't exactly fair or even correct.

Too me, Jimmy Clausen looks like and acts like an uber-douche, but you don't hear many ragging on him. Haven't really heard a peep about Bradford. I think Tebow just brings everything anyone would ever want in a player onto the field with a giant question mark as to his ability to perform in the NFL and the knowledge that he is a super Christian, it just adds up to an easy target for the weak minded to mercilessly attack when there really isn't absolute proof to how he'll play in the NFL.

hambone13
04-26-2010, 10:14 AM
I just don't get it-Tebow is SO polarizing-what happened to American morals, values and ethics? I am very happy with this pick, and meanwhile half of America is calling the kid names.

I'll take this kid anyday. Hard work, great attitude, desire to win or work so hard that he will win. He has won so many football awards it isn't funny, then people question if he is a football player.

When I watch tape on him, he finds a way to move the ball or score-he isn't afraid of the hit, and he tries so hard-he reminds me of Elway with his grit and determination. If he can learn to read defenses we have a true, frnachise quarterback-it may not be until 2012, but tha is fine by me-I can wait.

You'll take some polarizing passionately jacked ball juice, any day?

SonOfLe-loLang
04-26-2010, 10:14 AM
Yeah, he might work as a decoy, althought he's a little pricey for that role. What I like the most is the new Oline picks. Big, mean and nasty. I love the video where Zane knocks guys down at the end of the play. And the new WRs, big and smart. Good times ahead. :thumbsup:

Not even a decoy. I'm talking about tucking the ball and picking up those short yards. He just has a knack for it like Marcus Allen did. He's not afraid to hit and seems to have unusual wiggle to find running room. Combine this with an ability to throw and you have a weapon you can use right away. I believe in this guy, he'll find a role.

bronclvr
04-26-2010, 10:16 AM
I think Tebow just brings everything anyone would ever want in a player onto the field with a giant question mark as to his ability to perform in the NFL and the knowledge that he is a super Christian, it just adds up to an easy target for the weak minded to mercilessly attack when there really isn't absolute proof to how he'll play in the NFL.

Great take, and I agree-people tend to want to bitch about their lot in life, and when they see someone who is successful WHILE being a good person, they look inward and lash out.

Well, we'll see-it certainly puts us back into the limelight, like it or not.

bronclvr
04-26-2010, 10:17 AM
You'll take some polarizing passionately jacked ball juice, any day?

Thanks but no thanks-

Steve Sewell
04-26-2010, 10:18 AM
why are we building the BYU of the NFL? Talent seems to be secondary on McD's list of ingredients included in building a winning team. If McDaniel's is gonna take the attitude that strict morals and work ethic come first and then talent second, were screwed! You need to stirke a balance. You need to be able to teach, respect, and work with players. You need to be able to develope them. Players with questionable backgrounds (Dez Bryant) but a ton talent, deserve a shot. If you build your team by striking a balance between veterans, guys with great morals and character, and guys with questionable backgrounds, your accessing the total pool of talent that the draft and free angency are offering. Questionable background guys that hang around with the veterans and high moral guys usually learn something. Give the team a chance to gel together!

What I see is a guy (McD) that is way off balance, out of whack. We have nearly ZERO outstanding talent left on this team. Everyone with talent has been sent packing. McD is way too big on good guys with high morals. I just don't see it. Why trade up to get Tebow! We should of traded up to get Rolando McClain. He makes our defense better! What does Tebow do for us this year?

Bottom line is the Broncos didn't make the team better this offseason. They made it worse.

This is probably the most ridiculous post I've seen in years. Zero outstanding talent left on this team? Good lord.

cmhargrove
04-26-2010, 10:19 AM
Maybe the point of this thread is a little too simplistic. I see lots of high character guys, but the thing I am seeing most is........ intelligence.

McD seems to be drafting smart players, not always perfect ones with no blemishes. And, for the record, they tried to keep Marshall, but didn't want to pay him the biggest WR contract in the league.

There are several guys on the team that have been previously arrested (DJ, Marcus Thomas, Daniel Graham) - McD hasn't kicked them off either.

Rohirrim
04-26-2010, 10:25 AM
Too me, Jimmy Clausen looks like and acts like an uber-douche, but you don't hear many ragging on him. Haven't really heard a peep about Bradford. I think Tebow just brings everything anyone would ever want in a player onto the field with a giant question mark as to his ability to perform in the NFL and the knowledge that he is a super Christian, it just adds up to an easy target for the weak minded to mercilessly attack when there really isn't absolute proof to how he'll play in the NFL.

Yeah, people who disagree with you are "weak minded." Great take. Ha!

Some people just find the whole "Dudley Do-Right" personality annoying. What are we turning into, some kind of mediocre country where everybody has to pool together into one giant herd of acceptance? Moooo.

I've heard plenty of people rag on Clausen. Hell, look at where he got drafted? I guess that's comment enough. A month ago on the Mane, he was voted as the "Face you would love to punch." With Tebow, it's not just religious. It's the whole "Teacher, you forgot to give out the homework" and "Let me carry your books" and "Let me help you cross the street" persona. Sure, some people love it. Especially grandmas. Some people find it annoying. So what?

Steve Sewell
04-26-2010, 10:30 AM
I just watched the pro-life SB commercial everyone is talking about. It was pretty mild. I was adopted in the 70's right after the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision. I thank my lucky stars that my biological parents (teenagers at the time) decided to put me up for adoption rather than taking the easy way out. Tim and his family are in the same boat (regardless of their religious beliefs) with the difference being that doctors thought he would be stillborn. I don't see why they wouldn't take their story to the masses given the circumstances. I think it upsets the pro-choice crowd because they can't possibly produce a commercial themselves that morally justifies abortion...because it simply is not morally justifiable.

Rohirrim
04-26-2010, 10:36 AM
Not even a decoy. I'm talking about tucking the ball and picking up those short yards. He just has a knack for it like Marcus Allen did. He's not afraid to hit and seems to have unusual wiggle to find running room. Combine this with an ability to throw and you have a weapon you can use right away. I believe in this guy, he'll find a role.

I have to admit, I'm curious to see how he works out. He gives it everything he's got on the field, that's for sure. You have to admire his passion. My initial reaction is that he is a product of Urban Meyer's world and won't make the transition to the pros. I don't put a ton of weight on the decision, like some people. Tebow is not a make-or-break gamble for McDaniels or the Broncos. Josh sees enough to want to take a shot on the kid. He sure as hell knows more about coaching QBs than I do.

In fact, now that I think about it, maybe it's not that big of a deal to take a shot on Tebow now. Josh will have a pretty good idea of where he's at by the end of the season, and if he feels the need to go elsewhere, he'll still have two second rounders and a first to go after Locker, Luck or Mallett next year. Tebow's a good enough athlete that he could play another position, if that's how it worked out. As far as picking up the short yards, I think getting Beadles and Walton is going to make the big difference there.

Paladin
04-26-2010, 10:39 AM
"With Tebow, it's not just religious. It's the whole "Teacher, you forgot to give out the homework" and "Let me carry your books" and "Let me help you cross the street" persona. Sure, some people love it. Especially grandmas. Some people find it annoying. So what?"


lol!! You really are butt hurt, aren't you? You may be annoyed, but three quaraters of the fan base is not. Check out your own poll or the others. No body likes a cow that walks in the wrong direction, either, when the issue is miniscule. Try and get over yourself.

My point is that Tebow is first a Football player, and I don't give a whip about the other inconsequential stuff. Dudley Dooright won, too. <!-- / message -->

Paladin
04-26-2010, 10:41 AM
Posted after you did. Suddenly, you seem more reasonable......

Rohirrim
04-26-2010, 10:45 AM
"With Tebow, it's not just religious. It's the whole "Teacher, you forgot to give out the homework" and "Let me carry your books" and "Let me help you cross the street" persona. Sure, some people love it. Especially grandmas. Some people find it annoying. So what?"


lol!! You really are butt hurt, aren't you? You may be annoyed, but three quaraters of the fan base is not. Check out your own poll or the others. No body likes a cow that walks in the wrong direction, either, when the issue is miniscule. Try and get over yourself.

My point is that Tebow is first a Football player, and I don't give a whip about the other inconsequential stuff. Dudley Dooright won, too. <!-- / message -->

Do you have this same overwrought reaction to everybody who disagrees with you? Must be tough, emo boy. Why would I give a **** what three quarters of anybody thinks? Do you have a set of balls on you? Ever heard of the concept of "think for yourself." Try it sometime. You might find it refreshing.

Tombstone RJ
04-26-2010, 10:53 AM
why are we building the BYU of the NFL? Talent seems to be secondary on McD's list of ingredients included in building a winning team. If McDaniel's is gonna take the attitude that strict morals and work ethic come first and then talent second, were screwed! You need to stirke a balance. You need to be able to teach, respect, and work with players. You need to be able to develope them. Players with questionable backgrounds (Dez Bryant) but a ton talent, deserve a shot. If you build your team by striking a balance between veterans, guys with great morals and character, and guys with questionable backgrounds, your accessing the total pool of talent that the draft and free angency are offering. Questionable background guys that hang around with the veterans and high moral guys usually learn something. Give the team a chance to gel together!

What I see is a guy (McD) that is way off balance, out of whack. We have nearly ZERO outstanding talent left on this team. Everyone with talent has been sent packing. McD is way too big on good guys with high morals. I just don't see it. Why trade up to get Tebow! We should of traded up to get Rolando McClain. He makes our defense better! What does Tebow do for us this year?

Bottom line is the Broncos didn't make the team better this offseason. They made it worse.

What about Cox? STFU.

TheReverend
04-26-2010, 10:53 AM
why are we building the BYU of the NFL? Talent seems to be secondary on McD's list of ingredients included in building a winning team. If McDaniel's is gonna take the attitude that strict morals and work ethic come first and then talent second, were screwed! You need to stirke a balance. You need to be able to teach, respect, and work with players. You need to be able to develope them. Players with questionable backgrounds (Dez Bryant) but a ton talent, deserve a shot. If you build your team by striking a balance between veterans, guys with great morals and character, and guys with questionable backgrounds, your accessing the total pool of talent that the draft and free angency are offering. Questionable background guys that hang around with the veterans and high moral guys usually learn something. Give the team a chance to gel together!

What I see is a guy (McD) that is way off balance, out of whack. We have nearly ZERO outstanding talent left on this team. Everyone with talent has been sent packing. McD is way too big on good guys with high morals. I just don't see it. Why trade up to get Tebow! We should of traded up to get Rolando McClain. He makes our defense better! What does Tebow do for us this year?

Bottom line is the Broncos didn't make the team better this offseason. They made it worse.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ne2tlD5dQ1I/SxF3l8UmNAI/AAAAAAAAAIU/c80NYj00Npw/s1600/second-coming.jpg

bloodsunday
04-26-2010, 10:55 AM
I think in general morales and values are overblown. You will have winners and losers on every team -- even Notre Dame :)

The key is to have guys that are about the business of football and understand what it means to be a professional as your unquestioned leaders. Baltimore doesn't mind taking guys with a history of questionable work habits because they know those guys won't let Ray Lewis down. Pittsburgh has a similar situation with Hines Ward. We need a couple of those guys (obviously Brian Dawkins is one).

Paladin
04-26-2010, 10:57 AM
Dawkins does not have good morals or character? That what you saying?

Which mother******alley you going be in, bi^^h?

Meck77
04-26-2010, 11:02 AM
No need to over analyze. We now have players who want to play football in Denver. Simple as that.

orangenblue
04-26-2010, 11:06 AM
Who is the Broncos top "playmaker" WR ?

Shoemaker
04-26-2010, 11:12 AM
Who is the Broncos top "playmaker" WR ?

Considering that we just drafted two rookie wide receivers, including one that was regarded as one of the top "playmaker WRs" in the draft, I'd say asking that question is a bit premature, no?

Couldn't we wait until training camp to figure that one out? Or are you trying to say that we don't have any playmaker receivers before Thomas or Decker even catch a single pass for us?

barryr
04-26-2010, 11:19 AM
Yes, the Broncos had players who worried only of themselves or had troubles staying out of trouble and got so far with that group didn't they. Only the idiots care about Tebow's religious practices to not root for him because of that. Sad.

orangenblue
04-26-2010, 11:23 AM
Considering that we just drafted two rookie wide receivers, including one that was regarded as one of the top "playmaker WRs" in the draft, I'd say asking that question is a bit premature, no?

Couldn't we wait until training camp to figure that one out? Or are you trying to say that we don't have any playmaker receivers before Thomas or Decker even catch a single pass for us?

That is exactly what I'm saying. Brandon Marshall won games for us last year. Rookie WR's take at least a year or two years to develop. Thomas and Decker won't come anywhere close this year, not even close, to what we had production wise and playmaking wise in Marshall last season. Dez Bryant was the best WR in the draft. I'm not saying he could do what Marshall did for us last year, but he is explosive and the real playmaker we should have picked.

Popps
04-26-2010, 11:25 AM
That is exactly what I'm saying. Brandon Marshall won games for us last year. Rookie WR's take at least a year or two years to develop. Thomas and Decker won't come anywhere close this year, not even close, to what we had production wise and playmaking wise in Marshall last season. Dez Bryant was the best WR in the draft. I'm not saying he could do what Marshall did for us last year, but he is explosive and the real playmaker we should have picked.

http://www.randomfunnypicture.com/pictures/1897cool-story-brah-cat.jpg

OBF1
04-26-2010, 11:27 AM
That is exactly what I'm saying. Brandon Marshall won games for us last year. Rookie WR's take at least a year or two years to develop. Thomas and Decker won't come anywhere close this year, not even close, to what we had production wise and playmaking wise in Marshall last season. Dez Bryant was the best WR in the draft. I'm not saying he could do what Marshall did for us last year, but he is explosive and the real playmaker we should have picked.

So wrong you are... In our 8 wins last season, Marshall did not score a single TD. He scored TD's in only the games we lost.

ColoradoDarin
04-26-2010, 11:27 AM
a TEAM built on character, strength and toughness - I'll take that.

Cool Breeze
04-26-2010, 11:28 AM
why are we building the BYU of the NFL? Talent seems to be secondary on McD's list of ingredients included in building a winning team. If McDaniel's is gonna take the attitude that strict morals and work ethic come first and then talent second, were screwed! You need to stirke a balance. You need to be able to teach, respect, and work with players. You need to be able to develope them. Players with questionable backgrounds (Dez Bryant) but a ton talent, deserve a shot. If you build your team by striking a balance between veterans, guys with great morals and character, and guys with questionable backgrounds, your accessing the total pool of talent that the draft and free angency are offering. Questionable background guys that hang around with the veterans and high moral guys usually learn something. Give the team a chance to gel together!

What I see is a guy (McD) that is way off balance, out of whack. We have nearly ZERO outstanding talent left on this team. Everyone with talent has been sent packing. McD is way too big on good guys with high morals. I just don't see it. Why trade up to get Tebow! We should of traded up to get Rolando McClain. He makes our defense better! What does Tebow do for us this year?

Bottom line is the Broncos didn't make the team better this offseason. They made it worse.



http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Entertainment/images-3/Harry-Potter.jpg
RIDICULOUS!!!

TheReverend
04-26-2010, 11:31 AM
So wrong you are... In our 8 wins last season, Marshall did not score a single TD. He scored TD's in only the games we lost.

That's retardedly inaccurate dude.

Shoemaker
04-26-2010, 11:33 AM
That is exactly what I'm saying. Brandon Marshall won games for us last year. Rookie WR's take at least a year or two years to develop. Thomas and Decker won't come anywhere close this year, not even close, to what we had production wise and playmaking wise in Marshall last season. Dez Bryant was the best WR in the draft. I'm not saying he could do what Marshall did for us last year, but he is explosive and the real playmaker we should have picked.

I'm not trying to say that Thomas or Decker will equal Marshall in their rookie year. But its a bit of a stretch to go from saying "We don't have Brandon Marshall anymore, and he was our best playmaker," which is true, to saying "We don't have any playmaking receivers on the roster," which is debatable.

Honestly, no, I don't think any one of our receivers will come close to doing what Marshall did last year. But, I'm not certain how much we'll miss him. One thing I noticed late in the season was that Orton was locking onto Marshall for the vast majority of plays, much like Cutler used to-hence, Marshall was getting the majority of receptions and plays, and so, in essence, Marshall WAS our offense, while other receivers vanished.

But I don't think McDaniels intends it to be that way. His offense is based around distributing the ball around to multiple receivers and letting them make plays. Which, I think, is what he's planning to do more this year.

I don't think any one of our receivers will have a Brandon Marshall-like season, but I don't think they'll have to. If we use Royal effectively in the slot (and McDaniels admits Eddie was misused last year), Thomas as the deep threat, and Gaffney and Decker as possession receivers, and actually spread the ball around to them, I don't think we'll see that much dropoff from our receivers overall, because one won't be doing the majority of the work.

ColoradoDarin
04-26-2010, 11:34 AM
That's retardedly inaccurate dude.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he scored in the Dallas game since it was the gw touchdown.

orangenblue
04-26-2010, 11:35 AM
So wrong you are... In our 8 wins last season, Marshall did not score a single TD. He scored TD's in only the games we lost.

Wrong. I guess you didn't watch many games last year.

Dukes
04-26-2010, 11:37 AM
So wrong you are... In our 8 wins last season, Marshall did not score a single TD. He scored TD's in only the games we lost.

I think you mean in the 8 wins he didn't have over 100yds recieving. Something like that. His touchdown against Dallas says you're wrong.

Drek
04-26-2010, 11:39 AM
That is exactly what I'm saying. Brandon Marshall won games for us last year. Rookie WR's take at least a year or two years to develop. Thomas and Decker won't come anywhere close this year, not even close, to what we had production wise and playmaking wise in Marshall last season. Dez Bryant was the best WR in the draft. I'm not saying he could do what Marshall did for us last year, but he is explosive and the real playmaker we should have picked.

1. Dez hasn't played football for over half a year. How did that long layoff work out for Mike Williams, another explosive playmaker who entered the NFL not so long ago?

2. Thomas is a playmaker who replaced Calvin Johnson (the biggest playmaking WR to come out of college in a while, and a top 5 WR in the NFL already). He is a better fit for our system in that he fills the X WR role and lets Royal move to the slot where he should be.

3. Lots of rookies make an impact from year one. Go tell Percy Harvin that he didn't win ROY because rookie WRs don't make an impact out of the gate. Colston broke out year one, Royal had a real good rookie year, as did DeSean Jackson. Andre Johnson started dominating from basically year one. Both Boldin and Fitzgerald produced from the start of their pro careers. Randy Moss did too. Lots of talented guys produced from the start of their careers.

As to your original point: Being a good character guy doesn't mean you don't have talent. Thomas is an athletic freak. The only reason we could even pick him was because he played in a triple option offense and broke his foot preparing for the combine. If he'd shown up and ran the 4.38 he was running part way through preparation he likely would've been a top 15 pick. He's very reminiscent of Calvin Johnson, his predecessor at GT. Tim Tebow is the single best athlete to play QB since Mike Vick. The primary thing that stopped Vick from developing into an elite QB? Poor character and work ethic.

Further, we aren't just drafting good character guys. More importantly we're drafting guys who love football, want to play football here in Denver, and have the intelligence to do so quickly.

None of the first 5 picks have off-field issues, sure, but you can say that about 90% of the draft's talent pool. The more distinctive aspect is that 4 of our draft picks scored in the 30's on the Wonderlic, 5 or more of them where conference academic All-Americans. Tim Tebow isn't even included in that group and he's considered a pretty high football IQ gamer himself.

McDaniels' trend is drafting football players who put team success before everything else. He's installing that kind of mindset as the backbone of the team so that reclamation projects like Parrish Cox can see that their off-field behavior will not be tolerated.

Veterans who set a high standard for what is expected from everyone (Dawkins, Champ, etc.) teamed with talented rookies who have the intelligence and desire to meet that standard, with only a few dark horse projects at a time sounds like a recipe for success to me.

If you think Cutler and Marshall where the extent of the talent on this team then I can't help you because there isn't a cure for being a ****ing idiot to my knowledge. Cutler is an average to below average QB depending on his line protection. Does he play exciting football? Sure. But it isn't winning football. And while Marshall makes big plays he also doesn't show up and produce in far too many games. He's a gamer but he flat out didn't want to be a Denver Bronco anymore. If you fight that the game he doesn't show up for will likely only increase.

orangenblue
04-26-2010, 11:41 AM
100 receptions and 10 TD's. That is a go to guy and we only won 8 games with that. Take those stats away. Now how many games does Denver win? and who is gonna replace Scheffler? A practice squad guy? Yeah, that guy has better hands than Tony. Not!

Dukes
04-26-2010, 11:43 AM
100 receptions and 10 TD's. That is a go to guy and we only won 8 games with that. Take those stats away. Now how many games does Denver win? and who is gonna replace Scheffler? A practice squad guy? Yeah, that guy has better hands than Tony. Not!

Sheffler was an important part of the offense last year






/sarcasm

Tombstone RJ
04-26-2010, 11:45 AM
100 receptions and 10 TD's. That is a go to guy and we only won 8 games with that. Take those stats away. Now how many games does Denver win? and who is gonna replace Scheffler? A practice squad guy? Yeah, that guy has better hands than Tony. Not!

Scheffler? Seriously? It's been explained many times that McD does not use pass catching TEs in his spread offense.

As for Marshall, he wanted out of Denver. So, what would you suggest McD do? Not trade him and have a malcontent on the team?

You need to step off.

Pseudofool
04-26-2010, 11:50 AM
He'd be called less names and treated more fairly if he hadn't done the pro-life commercial. A lot of people are sick and tired of hearing religious extremists everywhere trying to convince you that their philosophy, faith, and practice is the only way to lead a good life... and people see a high profile guy like Tebow doing super bowl commercials doing just that, and those who disagree with his point of view will often revolt against the man himself as a symbol of the message.

Its unfortunate that the kid gets the reaction he gets from a lot of people, but he makes a lot of people uncomfortable, tired, or annoyed because he clearly stands as a symbol of his message.

The other thing is that Tebow is such an unknown. He is one of the most decorated college QBs ever, he is the most efficient passer coming out of the SEC ever, he has the grit and determination of a true soldier on the field... this also makes people uncomfortable. They have no idea what the kid is going to do in the NFL, but he has the chance of being one of the more dangerous offensive weapons to play the game. I think that scares people. Combine that with the religious aspect and people feel compelled to pick a side. Once they pick, they realize they can't go back without losing face so they are then induced to join the dregs and the mud slingers in trying to point all of his possible flaws that they can. The exact same thing happens in politics and you absolutely saw it last year with the way people reacted to Obama and Palin - two sort of unknowns added into running for a position that has never been held by anyone other than a white man. You got extreme reactions and a lot of insults... most of which weren't exactly fair or even correct.

Too me, Jimmy Clausen looks like and acts like an uber-douche, but you don't hear many ragging on him. Haven't really heard a peep about Bradford. I think Tebow just brings everything anyone would ever want in a player onto the field with a giant question mark as to his ability to perform in the NFL and the knowledge that he is a super Christian, it just adds up to an easy target for the weak minded to mercilessly attack when there really isn't absolute proof to how he'll play in the NFL.Smart stuff, dude. Bravo.

I imagine the Broncos will demand that Tebow rein in his proselytizing as long as he's a pro. Anyways, the way Tebow talks it sounds like his reverence is more to football than to God.

Mediator12
04-26-2010, 11:54 AM
why are we building the BYU of the NFL? Talent seems to be secondary on McD's list of ingredients included in building a winning team. If McDaniel's is gonna take the attitude that strict morals and work ethic come first and then talent second, were screwed! You need to stirke a balance. You need to be able to teach, respect, and work with players. You need to be able to develope them. Players with questionable backgrounds (Dez Bryant) but a ton talent, deserve a shot. If you build your team by striking a balance between veterans, guys with great morals and character, and guys with questionable backgrounds, your accessing the total pool of talent that the draft and free angency are offering. Questionable background guys that hang around with the veterans and high moral guys usually learn something. Give the team a chance to gel together!

What I see is a guy (McD) that is way off balance, out of whack. We have nearly ZERO outstanding talent left on this team. Everyone with talent has been sent packing. McD is way too big on good guys with high morals. I just don't see it. Why trade up to get Tebow! We should of traded up to get Rolando McClain. He makes our defense better! What does Tebow do for us this year?

Bottom line is the Broncos didn't make the team better this offseason. They made it worse.

Bottom line is you have NO IDEA if they are better or worse yet, yet you want to make bold threads to the contrary. WHY? You are not going to change the minds of those who are against you with a simplistic one sided argument. If you can not see both sides of the argument, which seems apparent from your above post, then you have zero chance of having a dialogue let alone changing anyone's mind.

No one knows how the players from this draft will affect any of their teams. What I like about this draft is the philosophy changes from Shanahan's style drafts. Especially, the changes on defense. They are taking players that fit what DEN wants to do, not what anyone else wants them to do. And, they know what that type of player looks like and will use the draft aggressively to find it. That is how you rebuild a team. Great teams can draft BPA and add enormous depth and flexibility to their roster. DEN has remade the whole defense and now the whole offense to what they are trying to do.

Now, do I agree with it. Not completely, but I do understand how and why they are doing what they do. And, the whole Talent thing could not be further from the truth. DEN added some real incredible pure Talent in this draft. Unfortuntely, some people ONLY see the opportunity cost and not the actual benefits. That is one of the drawbacks when so much change happens. Change requires a lot of communication, effort, and attention to implement. It is what I do, and I am used to doing it. All this has been laid out for the fans BTW, unfortunately not everyone will make the effort to understand. It is a lot easier to simply cry foul and be done with it.

Tombstone RJ
04-26-2010, 11:56 AM
Smart stuff, dude. Bravo.

I imagine the Broncos will demand that Tebow rein in his proselytizing as long as he's a pro. Anyways, the way Tebow talks it sounds like his reverence is more to football than to God.

Wow, talk about a contradictory statement. First you say the Broncos organization needs to "rein in his proselytizing as long as he's a pro" and then admit in the very next sentence that his football takes and his Christian takes don't show up when he's talking about football: "...his reverence is more to football than to God."

Go figure.

Pseudofool
04-26-2010, 11:59 AM
Yeah, people who disagree with you are "weak minded." Great take. Ha!I don't think he meant it the way you're taking it, dude.

DarkHorse30
04-26-2010, 12:01 PM
I just watched the pro-life SB commercial everyone is talking about. It was pretty mild. I was adopted in the 70's right after the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision. I thank my lucky stars that my biological parents (teenagers at the time) decided to put me up for adoption rather than taking the easy way out. Tim and his family are in the same boat (regardless of their religious beliefs) with the difference being that doctors thought he would be stillborn. I don't see why they wouldn't take their story to the masses given the circumstances. I think it upsets the pro-choice crowd because they can't possibly produce a commercial themselves that morally justifies abortion...because it simply is not morally justifiable.

a HUGE issue that most don't want to tackle. I'm against the "pro-choice" crowd because it devalues life. period.

Pseudofool
04-26-2010, 12:05 PM
Wow, talk about a contradictory statement. First you say the Broncos organization needs to "rein in his proselytizing as long as he's a pro" and then admit in the very next sentence that his football takes and his Christian takes don't show up when he's talking about football: "...his reverence is more to football than to God."

Go figure.Nuance, dude. Just because Tebow can spit some football talk, and maybe loves the pigskin more than he does the cross on his chain, doesn't mean that he won't soap-box the prolife bullcrap, and more, that that kind of propaganda might be unfavorable from a business standpoint. Unless, of course, the Broncos are planing on relocating to Colorado Springs.

dsmoot
04-26-2010, 12:11 PM
why are we building the BYU of the NFL? Talent seems to be secondary on McD's list of ingredients included in building a winning team. If McDaniel's is gonna take the attitude that strict morals and work ethic come first and then talent second, were screwed! You need to stirke a balance. You need to be able to teach, respect, and work with players. You need to be able to develope them. Players with questionable backgrounds (Dez Bryant) but a ton talent, deserve a shot. If you build your team by striking a balance between veterans, guys with great morals and character, and guys with questionable backgrounds, your accessing the total pool of talent that the draft and free angency are offering. Questionable background guys that hang around with the veterans and high moral guys usually learn something. Give the team a chance to gel together!

What I see is a guy (McD) that is way off balance, out of whack. We have nearly ZERO outstanding talent left on this team. Everyone with talent has been sent packing. McD is way too big on good guys with high morals. I just don't see it. Why trade up to get Tebow! We should of traded up to get Rolando McClain. He makes our defense better! What does Tebow do for us this year?

Bottom line is the Broncos didn't make the team better this offseason. They made it worse.

1. You cannot absolutely substitute character for talent and expect to win

2. A lack of character can be a cancer in a team sport and nuetralize any level of talent.

3. Given that levels of talent are reasonably close and present between competing teams, character can be the IT factor that allows a team to create the chemistry necessary to exceed individual performances and produce a winning team in spite of a somewhat lower level of talent.

Did Vince Lombardi's Packers or the early UCLA Bruins have greater talent than the teams they played. No. They had great personal and team character that became infectious.

4. Nothing is absolute.

HEAV
04-26-2010, 12:48 PM
Building a team

Can't have a team full of "Me and I" guys. Also can't have those players being key parts (QB & Wideout) of the team.

Everyteam is going to have it's A-holes, that's going to happening. But when those players are your starting QB (see Cutler having a hissy fit) and the starting wideout (see Marshall hissy fit from camp) a team needs to be focused on one singaluar goal.

Cutler wanted the stroke and Marshall was all about himself, his money, his stats and living life by his rules.

McDaniels isn't just bringing in Solid character guys, he's bringing Solid Character with talent guys!

Bay Bay Thomas, Tim Tebow have talent!

Just look at the Steelers for example! They want to get rid of their 2 time super bowl QB! Fans have turned against Big Ben in Pittsburgh. The guy that should be the face of the franchise is now the unwanted problem child!

colonelbeef
04-26-2010, 01:28 PM
a TEAM built on character, strength and toughness - I'll take that.

Are we building the Boy Scouts or a football team?

You seem to be rooting for a troupe of Weeblos. I want talented football players.

Ben Roethlisberger is a total dick off the field. You think that Steelers fans are willing to give up those two Super Bowl wins because he is an ass? does the fact that he is an ass make him an ineffective football player?

McDaniels way overrates the perceived notion of 'character' and the team now reflects that.

Like it or not, McDaniels is not tied to Tim Tebow. If the pick doesn't deliver in the next two years or so, McDaniels will be done as HC in Denver

Cito Pelon
04-26-2010, 01:31 PM
why are we building the BYU of the NFL? Talent seems to be secondary on McD's list of ingredients included in building a winning team. If McDaniel's is gonna take the attitude that strict morals and work ethic come first and then talent second, were screwed! You need to stirke a balance. You need to be able to teach, respect, and work with players. You need to be able to develope them. Players with questionable backgrounds (Dez Bryant) but a ton talent, deserve a shot. If you build your team by striking a balance between veterans, guys with great morals and character, and guys with questionable backgrounds, your accessing the total pool of talent that the draft and free angency are offering. Questionable background guys that hang around with the veterans and high moral guys usually learn something. Give the team a chance to gel together!

What I see is a guy (McD) that is way off balance, out of whack. We have nearly ZERO outstanding talent left on this team. Everyone with talent has been sent packing. McD is way too big on good guys with high morals. I just don't see it. Why trade up to get Tebow! We should of traded up to get Rolando McClain. He makes our defense better! What does Tebow do for us this year?

Bottom line is the Broncos didn't make the team better this offseason. They made it worse.

Good lord. This thread has to be in the running for best post-draft meltdown thread.

rbackfactory80
04-26-2010, 01:48 PM
Yeah, people who disagree with you are "weak minded." Great take. Ha!

Some people just find the whole "Dudley Do-Right" personality annoying. What are we turning into, some kind of mediocre country where everybody has to pool together into one giant herd of acceptance? Moooo.

I've heard plenty of people rag on Clausen. Hell, look at where he got drafted? I guess that's comment enough. A month ago on the Mane, he was voted as the "Face you would love to punch." With Tebow, it's not just religious. It's the whole "Teacher, you forgot to give out the homework" and "Let me carry your books" and "Let me help you cross the street" persona. Sure, some people love it. Especially grandmas. Some people find it annoying. So what?

That's a good point. Some people really can't stand Tebow's image and it drives them mad. Those people were cleaned out of the organization. A person like Marshall would not have listened to a word from Tebow and Sheffler would have spout off his negative BS without ever living up to a quarter of his hype. I really see no threat as far as that is concerned right now, all these guys are just fighting for a job.

Spider
04-26-2010, 01:53 PM
I just don't get it-Tebow is SO polarizing-what happened to American morals, values and ethics? I am very happy with this pick, and meanwhile half of America is calling the kid names.

I'll take this kid anyday. Hard work, great attitude, desire to win or work so hard that he will win. He has won so many football awards it isn't funny, then people question if he is a football player.

When I watch tape on him, he finds a way to move the ball or score-he isn't afraid of the hit, and he tries so hard-he reminds me of Elway with his grit and determination. If he can learn to read defenses we have a true, frnachise quarterback-it may not be until 2012, but tha is fine by me-I can wait.

yeah dont really go with that moral ,values line in this post .... but yeah cut the kid some slack...........

DawnBTVS
04-26-2010, 02:20 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/2010/04/24/1900599/chiefs-draft-shows-they-have-learned.html

An article with reference to when Marty Schottenheimer was coach about drafts and building teams through good character that I thought was poignant given this thread.

"He (Mark Collins) said it was because, at least during the early 1990s, Schottenheimer believed in the healing powers of a locker room full of leaders. Then something changed. A year after the Chiefs went 13-3 in 1997, Schottenheimer and former GM Carl Peterson ushered in a new philosophy, that enough talent could trump moral fiber. And the Chiefs had talent: Tony Gonzalez, Derrick Thomas and Will Shields — but also (Dale) Carter, Chester McGlockton, and Andre Rison.

'I remember saying to Carl: I can manage these guys,’ Schottenheimer said.

Instead, the Chiefs lost six in a row. Tempers boiled over during a November game against Denver, when Thomas was flagged three times for personal fouls. He wasn’t the only one who found trouble. Thomas was suspended, and Wayne Simmons was released.

'I could not in my worst nightmare imagine the conduct that took place,' Schottenheimer said at the time."

listopencil
04-26-2010, 03:21 PM
Wow. Really good article. That's not something you see talked about a lot by people who were there making the decisions.

Paladin
04-26-2010, 03:32 PM
"Do you have a set of balls on you?"

Yeah, Wanna suck 'em?

Why do you want to push the "college kid complainer" BS? Just like the dumb "me against the establihment" crap they hand out with the freshman beanies. You have been an arse about Tebow all along, and it is just flat eating your guts up.

Good.

Steve Sewell
04-26-2010, 08:51 PM
That is exactly what I'm saying. Brandon Marshall won games for us last year. Rookie WR's take at least a year or two years to develop. Thomas and Decker won't come anywhere close this year, not even close, to what we had production wise and playmaking wise in Marshall last season. Dez Bryant was the best WR in the draft. I'm not saying he could do what Marshall did for us last year, but he is explosive and the real playmaker we should have picked.

Eddie Royal says hi.

FireFly
04-26-2010, 08:56 PM
Funny quote from someone with Champ as their avatar.

It should be noted that the Broncos have essentially lost Cutler and Marshall... if that is all a team has as far as "outstanding talent", then yes it would probably be best to turn those two into picks, and give it another go in the draft because, according to your logic of only having TWO talented players, the Broncos were in trouble before McD got here.

Wow - Champ is a player that I have NOT heard very much about on this board for quite some time!

I almost forgot we even had him... wonder if we will in 2011

FireFly
04-26-2010, 08:59 PM
Also, I'd take a team of talented hard working players with a team 1st mentality over a slightly more talented team that is just one distraction after another is always causing disruption, lack motivation, cohesiveness and the will to do anything but promote individual achievement

Mr. Elway
04-26-2010, 09:04 PM
God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
The courage to change the things that I can;
And the wisdom to think twice before having a public meltdown on the Internet.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2010, 09:19 PM
Eddie Royal says hi.

Outside of Royal I can name only two WR's in the modern era that played at a high level as a rookie. Moss and Michael Clayton. If you can double that list I will be very impressed. Percy Harvin would be a fringe player. He played well enough though. From 2000 to 2009 NFL teams have drafted 318 total WR's and about three or four of them off the top of my head have had a pro bowl type rookie years.

TheReverend
04-26-2010, 09:35 PM
Outside of Royal I can name only two WR's in the modern era that played at a high level as a rookie. Moss and Michael Clayton. If you can double that list I will be very impressed. Percy Harvin would be a fringe player. He played well enough though. From 2000 to 2009 NFL teams have drafted 318 total WR's and about three or four of them off the top of my head have had a pro bowl type rookie years.

Boldin for sure

DBroncos4life
04-26-2010, 09:56 PM
Boldin for sure

Very true. I don't know how his season got left off the top 10 rookie seasons on Sirius radio today. 101 catches, 1377 yards and 8 TD's.

misturanderson
04-26-2010, 10:21 PM
Outside of Royal I can name only two WR's in the modern era that played at a high level as a rookie. Moss and Michael Clayton. If you can double that list I will be very impressed. Percy Harvin would be a fringe player. He played well enough though. From 2000 to 2009 NFL teams have drafted 318 total WR's and about three or four of them off the top of my head have had a pro bowl type rookie years.

Rookie WRs: 700 Yds +
Player Year Rec Rec Yds Rec TDs
Randy Moss 1998 69 1313 17
Anquan Boldin 2003 101 1377 8
Michael Clayton 2004 80 1193 7
Marques Colston 2006 70 1038 8
Kevin Johnson 1999 66 986 8
Dwayne Bowe 2007 70 995 5
Lee Evans 2004 48 843 9
Larry Fitzgerald 2004 58 780 8
Roy Williams 2004 54 817 8
Chris Chambers 2001 48 883 7
Antonio Bryant 2002 48 883 7
Torry Holt 1999 52 788 6
Troy Edwards 1999 61 714 5
Darrell Jackson 2000 53 713 6
Andre Johnson 2003 44 733 6
Keary Colbert 2004 47 754 5
Calvin Johnson 2007 48 756 4
Rod Gardner 2001 46 741 4
Chris Henry 2005 31 422 6

Most of those are pretty good years even if you don't take into account that they are rookies. That list also doesn't mention Desean Jackson, Royal, Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, Jeremy Maclin, Mike Wallace, Kenny Britt, Austin Collie or Crabtree because it was made prior to the 2008 season. Very few WRs have ever had pro-bowl type seasons, but there are a lot of WRs that produce at a high level in their rookie years.