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View Full Version : Gruden: Tebow to Revolutionize QB Pos.; He's "concrete cyanide..."


Memento
04-23-2010, 11:22 PM
Probably already posted, but... pretty interesting take from Chucky (includes Chucky Hyperbole).

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/gruden-says-tebow-could-revolutionize-the-game/

Jon Gruden doesn’t agree with Mel Kiper Jr.

He thinks Tim Tebow will be an N.F.L. quarterback, and potentially a great one.

Excerpt From The Orlando Sentinel:

Q: The spread is being run in high schools and colleges, is it possible it could be a base offense in the NFL one day?

A: “No question. The hard part is, you have to isolate the option. That’s why Tim Tebow is so interesting to me. He’s like Brandon Jacobs playing quarterback. He’s 250 pounds. He’s the strongest human being who’s ever played the position. Ever. He will kick the living [expletive] out of a defensive lineman. He’ll fight anybody. He is rare. Tebow is the kind of guy who could revolutionize the game. He’s the ‘wildcat’ who can throw. Most of the teams that have the wildcat back there, it’s Ronnie Brown, it’s Jerious Norwood, it’s whoever you want to say it is. This guy here is 250 pounds of concrete cyanide, man. And he can throw. He throws well enough at any level to play quarterback.”

**********(more at link)

SureShot
04-23-2010, 11:25 PM
Lol concrete cyanide!

easymobee
04-23-2010, 11:27 PM
The idiots at chiefsplanet think that Gruden is calling McDaniels a dumbass during the segment on night one when the commercials ended before he was ready for it. For the Tebow pick.

I like the concrete cyanide comment.

extralife
04-23-2010, 11:29 PM
I'm trying to come around on Tebow, but I'll never buy anything Gruden says. He's never said a bad word about anyone or anything since ESPN hired him because he doesn't want to burn any bridges. He's going to coach again and he doesn't want to stir any **** while he's away.

ZONA
04-23-2010, 11:31 PM
We shall see about the revolutionize the postion stuff later on and depending on how much he improves on passing will tell just how much he is used in base sets. But as I mentioned before, our version of the Wildcat (Wildhorses) is going to the next level. Not to mention, we can also add a true "option" package if we want to. Probably won't be used a ton but it's a nice quick change of pace that teams will have to spend time game planning for.

KillerBronco#76
04-24-2010, 12:00 AM
I heard Tim Tebow leaves the lights on at night, not because he is afraid of the dark. But because the dark is afraid of him.

listopencil
04-24-2010, 12:04 AM
We shall see about the revolutionize the postion stuff later on and depending on how much he improves on passing will tell just how much he is used in base sets. But as I mentioned before, our version of the Wildcat (Wildhorses) is going to the next level. Not to mention, we can also add a true "option" package if we want to. Probably won't be used a ton but it's a nice quick change of pace that teams will have to spend time game planning for.

I'm gonna laugh my ass off if they throw the Wild Horses O out there with Tebow and start marching down the field, maybe score a TD. People will **** bricks.

Finger Roll
04-24-2010, 12:10 AM
I was reading the Buffalo Bills message board and alot of people are pissed that they didn't get tebow in a 2nd or a trade up.

cutthemdown
04-24-2010, 12:11 AM
The first time Tebow T-bones a linebacker and run in for a TD, then does the salute, he will go from darhorse to favorite horse. Broncos fans will love him I bet.

We always love hard workers and I think we will give Tebow a fair chance to win us over. Screw what Mel Kiper says he said Mike Williams from USC was a rare talent and would re-write the record books at WR. He's no expert he just has a niche and hes good at it.

Broncos need to worry more about last yrs picks contributing then this yrs anyways. We need Royal out of his soph slup, we need Harris and Kuper on right side playing healthy and strong. But most of all we need Alphonso Smith, Robert Ayers, KNowshon Moreno to step up. We need those 3 players to make plays to have a chance at being good.

cutthemdown
04-24-2010, 12:13 AM
Also we haven't talked about it much but with Jammal inside and Doom on the edge Ayers could really have a shot at stepping up. I mean Doom coming off one side, Jammal eating up 2 blockers inside, could really leave the other OLB some nice matchups on plays he doesn't have to drop into coverage. .

Not only that but we could get better play from DJ now that he has a bigbody to eat up some real estate for him. He's never had a player anywhere near the size and power of Jammal.

cutthemdown
04-24-2010, 12:14 AM
I heard Tim Tebow leaves the lights on at night, not because he is afraid of the dark. But because the dark is afraid of him.

Tim Tebow went to the grand canyon and yelled hello!!!!!!!!!! the echo came back yes sir!!!!!

strafen
04-24-2010, 12:15 AM
I'm trying to come around on Tebow, but I'll never buy anything Gruden says. He's never said a bad word about anyone or anything since ESPN hired him because he doesn't want to burn any bridges. He's going to coach again and he doesn't want to stir any **** while he's away.Did you happen to see on ESPN Griden's QB Camp?
I thought it was cool he took the time to work one on one with the top QB's in this year's draft.
I think he's being honest in his opinions. Yes, he's being cautious about what he says for the reasons you've mentioned, but that shouldn't hurt his credibility...

strafen
04-24-2010, 12:15 AM
Tim Tebow went to the grand canyon and yelled hello!!!!!!!!!! the echo came back yes sir!!!!!I like it! :rofl::thumbsup:

DBroncos4life
04-24-2010, 12:16 AM
The Jags really dropped the ball in not taking this kid. The pub we are getting from him is just down right crazy.

easymobee
04-24-2010, 12:17 AM
Broncos draft looks good to me. In the guide I've been reading.
2nd and 6th rated WRs
4th rated Guard
2nd rated Center
And the 2nd coming.

TomServo
04-24-2010, 12:24 AM
theres a reason why Gruden is still unemployed as a coach.

HAT
04-24-2010, 12:25 AM
I sear to God, if it weren't for the fact that McD is already here I'd be clamoring for Gruden as HC.

Raider history or not....the dude is a breath of fresh air.

HAT
04-24-2010, 12:26 AM
theres a reason why Gruden is still unemployed as a coach.

Multi-millions of them actually.

If I could work less for more money I'd be all over it too.

Bronco CB40
04-24-2010, 12:30 AM
68% of Denver's offensive plays were run out of the shotgun last year and the majority of passing plays are the short, quick variety.

This offense is tailor made for Tebow.

When you consider that McDaniels forged a close relationship with Urban Meyer going back to his New England days and incorporated some of Florida's plays in his own playbook, the sky is the limit here. I expect to see McDaniels experiment and try things with Tebow that haven't been seen in the NFL.

BroncoBuff
04-24-2010, 12:45 AM
68% of Denver's offensive plays were run out of the shotgun last year and the majority of passing plays are the short, quick variety.

This offense is tailor made for Tebow.

Trees for the forest, there sir. This offense is a tightly timed array of fast closing Welker-windows that demand tight spirals and a quick release.

Besides, when was the first, last or any time that an NFL team spent a 1st-round pick on a quarterback whose entire delivery mechanics and throwing motion were being overhauled in the weeks leading up?

I love this draft so far, I really do. Everybody but Tim Tebow. Just relax and think it through. There's not some vast conspiracy of people "purposely underrating" or "secretly coveting" Tim Tebow. He's not the quarterback Claussen is, he just isn't.

TomServo
04-24-2010, 12:45 AM
Multi-millions of them actually.

If I could work less for more money I'd be all over it too.

but he's a SB winning coach who wants to prove he didnt just do it with the last coaches players.
you

BroncoBuff
04-24-2010, 12:49 AM
but he's a SB winning coach who wants to prove he didnt just do it with the last coaches players.
you

Well .... the team he had just left also went to the Super Bowl.

HAT
04-24-2010, 12:50 AM
but he's a SB winning coach who wants to prove he didnt just do it with the last coaches players.
you


Well....Much like Shanahan, I'm sure he'll get his chance again someday.


I KID, I KID!

Gruden still has much to prove no doubt....I just dig his personality.

listopencil
04-24-2010, 12:55 AM
I didn't realize he was around 250. He's very lean too.

broncocalijohn
04-24-2010, 12:57 AM
I sear to God, if it weren't for the fact that McD is already here I'd be clamoring for Gruden as HC.

Raider history or not....the dude is a breath of fresh air.

i am sure it didnt stop you from clamoring for Shanahan when he came to Denver.
BTW, nice Angels win tonight. You going to any vs yanks?

Bronco CB40
04-24-2010, 01:01 AM
Trees for the forest, there sir. This offense is a tightly timed array of fast closing Welker-windows that demand tight spirals and a quick release.

Besides, when was the first, last or any time that an NFL team spent a 1st-round pick on a quarterback whose entire delivery mechanics and throwing motion were being overhauled in the weeks leading up?

I love this draft so far, I really do. Everybody but Tim Tebow. Just relax and think it through. There's not some vast conspiracy of people "purposely underrating" or "secretly coveting" Tim Tebow. He's not the quarterback Claussen is, he just isn't.

I wouldn't say Tebow's "entire" delivery mechanics and throwing motion was overhauled. The release point being moved higher was the major change he made between his senior year and his workout.

It's a very risky pick no question, but I admire the fact that McDaniels is willing to try something different and new to get an edge. This is coming from somebody who wanted to burn McDaniels' house down last week. It's a bold move. He's willing to put his reputation on the line with Tebow. If Tebow fails, there's a chance McDaniels will not only lose his job, but he will never get another HC position in football.

hookemhess
04-24-2010, 01:22 AM
Did you happen to see on ESPN Griden's QB Camp?
I thought it was cool he took the time to work one on one with the top QB's in this year's draft.
I think he's being honest in his opinions. Yes, he's being cautious about what he says for the reasons you've mentioned, but that shouldn't hurt his credibility...

I've watched the Gruden QB Camp videos on YouTube. It's cool as hell to see John watch film with these QBs. Damn good TV.

mhgaffney
04-24-2010, 01:23 AM
I heard Tim Tebow leaves the lights on at night, not because he is afraid of the dark. But because the dark is afraid of him.

It's way too soon to crown a legend.

Better -- for now -- to stay sober and keep our eyes open.

HAT
04-24-2010, 01:27 AM
i am sure it didnt stop you from clamoring for Shanahan when he came to Denver.
BTW, nice Angels win tonight. You going to any vs yanks?

Lucked into a Diamond Club seat for Sunday.

Not to hijack but what did you think about that Tex move at the plate?

I didn't think it was all that bad....even though the kid was up the line a little bit. Tex could've at least shown some concern though. Just glad it wasn't Naps back there.

Broncosfreak_56
04-24-2010, 01:27 AM
LOL I love it. Concrete cyanide.

BroncoBuff
04-24-2010, 01:30 AM
Yeah, concretre cyanide, very funny.

But please, let's not go all Hixon/Foneco on Tim Tebow.

Doesn't work for a 1st-rounder :nono:

watermock
04-24-2010, 01:32 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWYHKeYAslU.

ZONA
04-24-2010, 01:40 AM
68% of Denver's offensive plays were run out of the shotgun last year and the majority of passing plays are the short, quick variety.

This offense is tailor made for Tebow.

When you consider that McDaniels forged a close relationship with Urban Meyer going back to his New England days and incorporated some of Florida's plays in his own playbook, the sky is the limit here. I expect to see McDaniels experiment and try things with Tebow that haven't been seen in the NFL.

Believe me, I doubt there is anything that hasn't been tried, 10 fold. Name one thing that has not been tried.

TDmvp
04-24-2010, 02:41 AM
The first time Tebow T-bones a linebacker and run in for a TD, then does the salute, he will go from darhorse to favorite horse. Broncos fans will love him I bet.




As much as I hate Josh and the pick if he turns out to be good and does that I'll will most likely cry like a bish , jump on the bandwagon and admit I was wrong about Josh heheh ...

I'm a sucker for that crap LOLOLOL ...

Bronco CB40
04-24-2010, 02:48 AM
Believe me, I doubt there is anything that hasn't been tried, 10 fold. Name one thing that has not been tried.

An offense that regularly uses two quarterbacks on the field at the same time. Building on what the Dolphins did with Chad Henne and Pat White last year where the latter has his role expanded to another dimension.

Rausch 2.0
04-24-2010, 02:49 AM
An offense that regularly uses two quarterbacks on the field at the same time. Building on what the Dolphins did with Chad Henne and Pat White last year where the latter has his role expanded to another dimension.

There is much fail and stupidity in this idea...

Swedish Extrovert
04-24-2010, 02:52 AM
I like Gruden now that he is no longer with the Raiders. I like him a LOT. Great commentator. Seems to be high on Tebow, meaning he knows what he is capable of.

I say we cough up the millions and bring him in as Asst. Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator/QB Coach

Ratboy
04-24-2010, 02:54 AM
The Jags really dropped the ball in not taking this kid. The pub we are getting from him is just down right crazy.

From a marketing stand point, this move was brilliant.

From a football stand point, this move flat out sucked.

Bronco CB40
04-24-2010, 03:03 AM
There is much fail and stupidity in this idea...

NFL is slow to adopt change so it's probably not going to happen overnight, but the wildcat QB's role is slowing expanding in this league.

Look at what Carolina did today. They drafted Amanti Edwards to complement a classic dropback passer in Jimmy Clausen.

What Miami did last year with Henne and White raised some eyebrows around the NFL and I expect to see the Dolphins expand White's role this year with another year under his belt.

thumpc
04-24-2010, 04:36 AM
Add in offensive teammates who can all process lots of information and the weekly gameplan becomes too enormous for oppossing defenses to deal with.
He can run triple wishbone, wild cross, gabriel's trumpet, whatever! He's gonna smash through the minnonites defenses, they will see a bolt of light....

elsid13
04-24-2010, 04:38 AM
I wouldn't say Tebow's "entire" delivery mechanics and throwing motion was overhauled. The release point being moved higher was the major change he made between his senior year and his workout.

It's a very risky pick no question, but I admire the fact that McDaniels is willing to try something different and new to get an edge. This is coming from somebody who wanted to burn McDaniels' house down last week. It's a bold move. He's willing to put his reputation on the line with Tebow. If Tebow fails, there's a chance McDaniels will not only lose his job, but he will never get another HC position in football.

He also spent a lot of time working on his feet. Which is the most important part of the delivery. He was over striding and off balance with his throwing motion.

elsid13
04-24-2010, 04:40 AM
Just throwing out that last time ESPN hype machine stated a college player was going to revolutionize a position was Reggie Bush. How that working out.

Let hope that Tebow is better that Slash 2.0

thumpc
04-24-2010, 05:02 AM
It worked out pretty good. Sean Payton utilized Bush in creative ways to add dimension to that offense by creating mismatches, preventing double teams and exposing coverages.

Drek
04-24-2010, 05:29 AM
Trees for the forest, there sir. This offense is a tightly timed array of fast closing Welker-windows that demand tight spirals and a quick release.

Besides, when was the first, last or any time that an NFL team spent a 1st-round pick on a quarterback whose entire delivery mechanics and throwing motion were being overhauled in the weeks leading up?

I love this draft so far, I really do. Everybody but Tim Tebow. Just relax and think it through. There's not some vast conspiracy of people "purposely underrating" or "secretly coveting" Tim Tebow. He's not the quarterback Claussen is, he just isn't.

There are a lot of QBs better than Jimmy Clausen Buff, Tebow is just one of many there.

You know I'm a big ND homer. The single most excited I've been about the team since hiring Weis is the day Clausen said he was leaving early. Good riddance.

Tebow does literally EVERYTHING but prepare to throw a football better than Clausen. He's far more athletic, he's a harder worker, he's a better leader, he's got a higher football IQ, and he throws harder. Clausen is a well rounded but avreage player in an offense designed to help him put up big numbers. He's worse than Brady Quinn in pretty much every way. He also played a cupcake schedule and couldn't produce a winning season last year.

As a big ND homer all I can say to Clausen is don't let the door hit you in the ass on the out. Hello Dayne Cryst!

bpc
04-24-2010, 06:14 AM
Trees for the forest, there sir. This offense is a tightly timed array of fast closing Welker-windows that demand tight spirals and a quick release.

Besides, when was the first, last or any time that an NFL team spent a 1st-round pick on a quarterback whose entire delivery mechanics and throwing motion were being overhauled in the weeks leading up?

I love this draft so far, I really do. Everybody but Tim Tebow. Just relax and think it through. There's not some vast conspiracy of people "purposely underrating" or "secretly coveting" Tim Tebow. He's not the quarterback Claussen is, he just isn't.

You're right. He's a winner. Something Jimmah hasn't proven he's able to do.

OABB
04-24-2010, 06:30 AM
Well if buff thinks clausen is better than I know we made the right choice.

TotallyScrewed
04-24-2010, 06:31 AM
"Broncos need to worry more about last yrs picks contributing then this yrs anyways. We need Royal out of his soph slup, we need Harris and Kuper on right side playing healthy and strong. But most of all we need Alphonso Smith, Robert Ayers, KNowshon Moreno to step up. We need those 3 players to make plays to have a chance at being good."

They need those two o-line picks in this years' draft to bust ass and make the interior better: competition or replacing guys, I don't care; but BE BETTER!!

Slade
04-24-2010, 06:35 AM
68% of Denver's offensive plays were run out of the shotgun last year and the majority of passing plays are the short, quick variety.

This offense is tailor made for Tebow.




This is what I have been trying to explain to people. There were two knocks on Tebow at the Senior Bowl. 1. He sucks under center. 2. His throwing motion. Well, since we play out of the shotgun the majority of the time, #1 doesn't matter to us and #2...we have an amazing coach of quarterbacks who can mold this guy. Bottom line is that Tebow is a winner and will work 150% everyday to become the best!

TotallyScrewed
04-24-2010, 06:47 AM
If Tebow is a project, then he's gonna have time to work on the throwing motion and the foot work. My question is if he's as football saavy and great an athlete, why is his throwing motion and foot work bad at this time? It's not like he's Mike Anderson and play in the band last year...

Drek
04-24-2010, 06:55 AM
If Tebow is a project, then he's gonna have time to work on the throwing motion and the foot work. My question is if he's as football saavy and great an athlete, why is his throwing motion and foot work bad at this time? It's not like he's Mike Anderson and play in the band last year...

He's being graded on a ****ed up curve for starters.

Comparing someone like Tebow who hasn't had a personal QB coach teaching him a "textbook" throwing motion like Clausen and Bradford both have had since they where in their early teens isn't really comparing apples to apples.

Then consider that Urban Meyer didn't need to tweak his mechanics because they worked just fine for what they where doing in Florida.

Lastly, its a lot of overblown bull****. Phillip Rivers throwing motion was just as janky as Tebow's when he was in college. Hell, Rivers threw damn near side arm all the time whereas Tebow only occasionally slides a 3/4ths release when throwing on the run.

Brett Favre has an elongated windup in his throws as well when scrambling, just like Tebow.

David Carr was the #1 overall pick and had huge mechanical issues.

With Tebow its a big deal because he didn't play in a pro style offense (except a good chunk of our passing package is based on Urban Meyer's spread) and he's so hyped that he's been grossly over scouted.

The mechanical issues are all things McDaniels has fixed before. He worked with Brady to improve his footwork and balance in the pocket. He worked with Orton on tightening up his throwing motion and release. He worked with Cassel on basically everything to get that guy up to an NFL level. Maybe Tebow is unable to learn new habits, but he's going to the right place with the right coach to do so.

spdirty
04-24-2010, 07:04 AM
Well before the draft I said I didnt want this guy...I didnt watch much of his college career but what I saw of him was not impressive as far as his arm goes. The more I read about him, the more I like him, the main thing I like about this guy is his work ethic. Seems to me like he is committed to fixing any and every flaw in his game in order to become the best qb he can possibly be. Plus his arrival states the end is near for Kyle Orton. :)

spdirty
04-24-2010, 07:07 AM
He's being graded on a ****ed up curve for starters.

Comparing someone like Tebow who hasn't had a personal QB coach teaching him a "textbook" throwing motion like Clausen and Bradford both have had since they where in their early teens isn't really comparing apples to apples.

Then consider that Urban Meyer didn't need to tweak his mechanics because they worked just fine for what they where doing in Florida.

Lastly, its a lot of overblown bull****. Phillip Rivers throwing motion was just as janky as Tebow's when he was in college. Hell, Rivers threw damn near side arm all the time whereas Tebow only occasionally slides a 3/4ths release when throwing on the run.

Brett Favre has an elongated windup in his throws as well when scrambling, just like Tebow.

David Carr was the #1 overall pick and had huge mechanical issues.

With Tebow its a big deal because he didn't play in a pro style offense (except a good chunk of our passing package is based on Urban Meyer's spread) and he's so hyped that he's been grossly over scouted.

The mechanical issues are all things McDaniels has fixed before. He worked with Brady to improve his footwork and balance in the pocket. He worked with Orton on tightening up his throwing motion and release. He worked with Cassel on basically everything to get that guy up to an NFL level. Maybe Tebow is unable to learn new habits, but he's going to the right place with the right coach to do so.

:thumbsup:

TonyR
04-24-2010, 08:03 AM
Well if buff thinks clausen is better than I know we made the right choice.

Seriously, this was the guy who was strongly advocating for Chris Simms last season and now we're supposed to take him seriously re Tebow and Clausen.

elsid13
04-24-2010, 08:14 AM
He's being graded on a ****ed up curve for starters.

Comparing someone like Tebow who hasn't had a personal QB coach teaching him a "textbook" throwing motion like Clausen and Bradford both have had since they where in their early teens isn't really comparing apples to apples.

Then consider that Urban Meyer didn't need to tweak his mechanics because they worked just fine for what they where doing in Florida.

.

Drek

UF brought in QB Coach (Scot Loeffler) especial to work on his delivery and passing. Every season Tebow supposedly worked on improving his feet and skills sets.

Loeffer is darn good coach who has pro experience but also was the coach that tutored the UM QBs for Lloyd Carr. Under Loeffler the following QB were drafted into the NFL (all are fundamental sound)

QB Brian Griese (3rd) - Michigan '98 - Denver Broncos
QB Tom Brady (6th) - Michigan '00 - New England Patriots
QB Drew Henson (6th) - Michigan '03 - Houston Texans
QB John Navarre (7th) - Michigan '04 - Arizona Cardinals
QB Chad Henne (2nd) - Michigan '08 - Miami Dolphins

BroncoBuff
04-24-2010, 08:18 AM
I'd feel better if it was someone other than Jon Gruden saying this.

Or Sam Wyche ... who for heaven's sake was being paid to consult Tebow.

Cito Pelon
04-24-2010, 08:21 AM
Trees for the forest, there sir. This offense is a tightly timed array of fast closing Welker-windows that demand tight spirals and a quick release.

Besides, when was the first, last or any time that an NFL team spent a 1st-round pick on a quarterback whose entire delivery mechanics and throwing motion were being overhauled in the weeks leading up?

I love this draft so far, I really do. Everybody but Tim Tebow. Just relax and think it through. There's not some vast conspiracy of people "purposely underrating" or "secretly coveting" Tim Tebow. He's not the quarterback Claussen is, he just isn't.

It's not that big of a deal. I think often with college QB's they don't want to change their delivery no matter if it's slow.

Tebow wants to be a better QB, he's willing to learn how to be. He has the physical and mental ability to improve his footwork and his mechanics.

And Claussen? Please. Dude lasted til #48.

I don't blame anybody for questioning if Tebow can excel, but enough people that know a few things like him I'm not gonna question his future too much.

BroncoBuff
04-24-2010, 08:22 AM
He's being graded on a ****ed up curve for starters.

Comparing someone like Tebow who hasn't had a personal QB coach teaching him a "textbook" throwing motion like Clausen and Bradford both have had since they where in their early teens isn't really comparing apples to apples.

Then consider that Urban Meyer didn't need to tweak his mechanics because they worked just fine for what they where doing in Florida.

Lastly, its a lot of overblown bull****. Phillip Rivers throwing motion was just as janky as Tebow's when he was in college. Hell, Rivers threw damn near side arm all the time whereas Tebow only occasionally slides a 3/4ths release when throwing on the run.

Brett Favre has an elongated windup in his throws as well when scrambling, just like Tebow.

David Carr was the #1 overall pick and had huge mechanical issues.

With Tebow its a big deal because he didn't play in a pro style offense (except a good chunk of our passing package is based on Urban Meyer's spread) and he's so hyped that he's been grossly over scouted.

The mechanical issues are all things McDaniels has fixed before. He worked with Brady to improve his footwork and balance in the pocket. He worked with Orton on tightening up his throwing motion and release. He worked with Cassel on basically everything to get that guy up to an NFL level. Maybe Tebow is unable to learn new habits, but he's going to the right place with the right coach to do so.


Always looks to me like Claussen throws damn near 3/4 too.

uplink
04-24-2010, 08:23 AM
One thing is for sure. If Tebow does become the starter there is all the bulletin board material you'd want to get him fired up to play a number of teams that dissed him. Such as the Jerry Jones video, Bills GM saying the broncos panicked etc etc.

Cito Pelon
04-24-2010, 08:28 AM
I wouldn't say Tebow's "entire" delivery mechanics and throwing motion was overhauled. The release point being moved higher was the major change he made between his senior year and his workout.

It's a very risky pick no question, but I admire the fact that McDaniels is willing to try something different and new to get an edge. This is coming from somebody who wanted to burn McDaniels' house down last week. It's a bold move. He's willing to put his reputation on the line with Tebow. If Tebow fails, there's a chance McDaniels will not only lose his job, but he will never get another HC position in football.

The constant repetition of this is getting to be ridiculous. No offense meant to you CB40, but this is becoming a meme.

dsmoot
04-24-2010, 08:35 AM
The first time Tebow T-bones a linebacker and run in for a TD, then does the salute, he will go from darhorse to favorite horse. Broncos fans will love him I bet.

We always love hard workers and I think we will give Tebow a fair chance to win us over. Screw what Mel Kiper says he said Mike Williams from USC was a rare talent and would re-write the record books at WR. He's no expert he just has a niche and hes good at it.

Broncos need to worry more about last yrs picks contributing then this yrs anyways. We need Royal out of his soph slup, we need Harris and Kuper on right side playing healthy and strong. But most of all we need Alphonso Smith, Robert Ayers, KNowshon Moreno to step up. We need those 3 players to make plays to have a chance at being good.

Mel Kiper was really the first of his kind in specializing in identifying player talent as it fit to particular NFL needs. He had his day in the sun but his limitations have really been exposed by others (Mayock) who simply see the game/talent from a better perspective. He has become very arrogant in his opinions and is now outclassed. I believe this is true of ESPN from an overall perspective in covering the NFL. The only person on the ESPN team I really value the opinion of is Tom Jackson. I believe he evaluates more honestly than the others because he sees the game fundamentally, throwing out all the nonsense. The NFL Network would do themselves a great service to dump Dukes and go after TJ to be a main personality.

Drek
04-24-2010, 08:51 AM
Drek

UF brought in QB Coach (Scot Loeffler) especial to work on his delivery and passing. Every season Tebow supposedly worked on improving his feet and skills sets.

Loeffer is darn good coach who has pro experience but also was the coach that tutored the UM QBs for Lloyd Carr. Under Loeffler the following QB were drafted into the NFL (all are fundamental sound)

QB Brian Griese (3rd) - Michigan '98 - Denver Broncos
QB Tom Brady (6th) - Michigan '00 - New England Patriots
QB Drew Henson (6th) - Michigan '03 - Houston Texans
QB John Navarre (7th) - Michigan '04 - Arizona Cardinals
QB Chad Henne (2nd) - Michigan '08 - Miami Dolphins
Loeffler probably isn't your best argument against Tebow improving his delivery and footwork. Loeffler was only with him for his senior year and is very outspoken with his belief that Tim Tebow will be an elite NFL QB.

Also, it doesn't address the point that the guys Tebow is being measured against both spent considerable time even as junior and high school kids developing their throwing motion. This while Tebow was doing things like going to the Philippines to do charity work.

He's raw. Maybe he can't improve, maybe he can. But he isn't the same as Bradford or Clausen who've spent years working on their motions. Any flaws they have are likely to stay. Tebow doesn't have any hard and fast habits and can be totally rebuilt if needed.

I don't think he does have to completely rebuild it though. Improving footwork for an athlete like him will be second nature, improving his release is something he's already shown good improvement on.

Guys with pretty impressive track records think he's got all the tools and will quickly fix and mechanical issues.

Cito Pelon
04-24-2010, 08:51 AM
He's being graded on a ****ed up curve for starters.

Comparing someone like Tebow who hasn't had a personal QB coach teaching him a "textbook" throwing motion like Clausen and Bradford both have had since they where in their early teens isn't really comparing apples to apples.

Then consider that Urban Meyer didn't need to tweak his mechanics because they worked just fine for what they where doing in Florida.

Lastly, its a lot of overblown bull****. Phillip Rivers throwing motion was just as janky as Tebow's when he was in college. Hell, Rivers threw damn near side arm all the time whereas Tebow only occasionally slides a 3/4ths release when throwing on the run.

Brett Favre has an elongated windup in his throws as well when scrambling, just like Tebow.

David Carr was the #1 overall pick and had huge mechanical issues.

With Tebow its a big deal because he didn't play in a pro style offense (except a good chunk of our passing package is based on Urban Meyer's spread) and he's so hyped that he's been grossly over scouted.

The mechanical issues are all things McDaniels has fixed before. He worked with Brady to improve his footwork and balance in the pocket. He worked with Orton on tightening up his throwing motion and release. He worked with Cassel on basically everything to get that guy up to an NFL level. Maybe Tebow is unable to learn new habits, but he's going to the right place with the right coach to do so.

Agreed. I'm really warming up to Tebow, he has a ton of poise and confidence, superb athletic ability, is coachable. Can he learn the deep nuances of the game like looking off safeties, making the pre-snap reads? I believe he can because he has poise, brains, and will put the time in with the staff.

Drek
04-24-2010, 08:56 AM
Mel Kiper was really the first of his kind in specializing in identifying player talent as it fit to particular NFL needs. He had his day in the sun but his limitations have really been exposed by others (Mayock) who simply see the game/talent from a better perspective. He has become very arrogant in his opinions and is now outclassed. I believe this is true of ESPN from an overall perspective in covering the NFL. The only person on the ESPN team I really value the opinion of is Tom Jackson. I believe he evaluates more honestly than the others because he sees the game fundamentally, throwing out all the nonsense. The NFL Network would do themselves a great service to dump Dukes and go after TJ to be a main personality.

Kiper's problem is that he's simply not a football guy. He's a PR/marketing guy.

All he does is evaluate draft stock based on what teams will tell him. A good bit of what he gets is just plain misinformation. He doesn't watch hours and hours of tape on guys, he watches a view games against big time competition. He doesn't break them down at the senior bowl, he gets feedback from scouts and others at the senior bowl.

His takes are a direct reflection of what his sources think or want him to think.

Meanwhile Mike Mayock, a former NFL player himself, doesn't rely on sources nearly as much and instead just breaks the guys down and ranks them himself off his own evaluation.

There is a reason why Kiper is talked about most often as a punchline amongst NFL FO types while numerous NFL FO types (like Scott Pioli) have flat out said Mayock gets it and he could be working in the league running someone's scouting department if he wanted to.

baja
04-24-2010, 09:01 AM
Mel Kiper was really the first of his kind in specializing in identifying player talent as it fit to particular NFL needs. He had his day in the sun but his limitations have really been exposed by others (Mayock) who simply see the game/talent from a better perspective. He has become very arrogant in his opinions and is now outclassed. I believe this is true of ESPN from an overall perspective in covering the NFL. The only person on the ESPN team I really value the opinion of is Tom Jackson. I believe he evaluates more honestly than the others because he sees the game fundamentally, throwing out all the nonsense. The NFL Network would do themselves a great service to dump Dukes and go after TJ to be a main personality.


TJ looked pissed all day and at one point young just talked over tj and Jackson gave him a look that could kill. I don't think TJ is very happy with the current format at ESPN and I don't blame him. I'd love to see TJ bitch slap young and Kiper

Rohirrim
04-24-2010, 09:01 AM
Well, the nice thing is that all the Cutler threads are being replaced by Tebow threads. ;D