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View Full Version : So much for the "Bowlen's broke and doesn't want two first rounders"


Kaylore
04-23-2010, 10:25 PM
Tebow and Thomas both kind of destroy that conspiracy theory. We really just liked Smith.

HAT
04-23-2010, 10:26 PM
Totals....

BroncoInferno
04-23-2010, 10:26 PM
Exactly. BPC's "we're using the Clippers model" post looks pretty foolish now, like most of his takes since the Shanny firing.

Florida_Bronco
04-23-2010, 10:27 PM
exactly. Bpc's "we're using the clippers model" post looks pretty foolish now, like most of his takes since the shanny firing.

+1

bpc
04-23-2010, 10:32 PM
Exactly. BPC's "we're using the Clippers model" post looks pretty foolish now, like most of his takes since the Shanny firing.

Figure out how much it's going to cost for these two low first rounders vs. the #11 pick and then get back to me.

BTW, what's the over/under that we resign Elvis and eventually Clady to contract extensions?

See you're talking **** but have no actual facts. Where as I can point to numerous moves over the past year which are designed specifically as a cost cutting venture. You need not look any farther than Shanahan's replacement, Josh McDaniels.

Mogulseeker
04-23-2010, 10:34 PM
There are so many smoke screens before the draft that all I really pay attention to anymore is the player profiles.

Mogulseeker
04-23-2010, 10:35 PM
Was there a single mock draft that actually had the Broncos taking Thomas.

BroncoInferno
04-23-2010, 10:37 PM
Figure out how much it's going to cost for these two low first rounders vs. the #11 pick and then get back to me.

BTW, what's the over/under that we resign Elvis and eventually Clady to contract extensions?

See you're talking **** but have no actual facts. Where as I can point to numerous moves over the past year which are designed specifically as a cost cutting venture. You need not look any farther than Shanahan's replacement, Josh McDaniels.

And what are your "facts", dickhead? You have none. He traded three malcontents. What is your evidence that it was a cost cutting venture? I actually do have evidence that you're wrong...we spent a good bit of money in FA agency the last two seasons, not jibing with you're "Clippers model" BS.

Kaylore
04-23-2010, 10:38 PM
Figure out how much it's going to cost for these two low first rounders vs. the #11 pick and then get back to me.
Over the life of the contract, two low first rounders cost more than pick number 11 would.
BTW, what's the over/under that we resign Elvis and eventually Clady to contract extensions?
Pretty good.

See you're talking **** but have no actual facts.
This is hilarious that you wrote this.

Where as I can point to numerous moves over the past year which are designed specifically as a cost cutting venture. You need not look any farther than Shanahan's replacement, Josh McDaniels.
So you really believe that Shanahan was let go purely to save money and not because of the ten years of mediocrity? This post is so incredibly stupid because it cost Bowlen more to fire Shanahan than to keep him because he paid two coaches, and Shanahan got his full salary for one year to not work for him. If he really was "cheap" and hurting for cash he would have finished out Shanahan's contract.

And the Broncos trading players away that don't fit their system isn't an income thing. We've blown our wad in free agency, out-spending most teams in free agency. I'm not saying Bowlen isn't trying to be prudent, but this idea that we don't have the money to take who we want and were asked to get rid of picks to lower our payroll is bogus.

TotallyScrewed
04-23-2010, 10:39 PM
"Figure out how much it's going to cost for these two low first rounders vs. the #11 pick and then get back to me."

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Bowlen and McD may be sly old foxes but they are miserly. If you're going to make foolish picks (time will tell), at least don't pay too much to play the fool.

Kaylore
04-23-2010, 10:48 PM
"Figure out how much it's going to cost for these two low first rounders vs. the #11 pick and then get back to me."

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Bowlen and McD may be sly old foxes but they are miserly. If you're going to make foolish picks (time will tell), at least don't pay too much to play the fool.

I just ran the numbers from last year. Arron Maybin had a $25 Million dollar contract at pick 11.

22 and 25 yielded Percy Harvin and Vontae Davis respecitively. for 14.5 Mil and 11 Mill. It costs more, especially in guaranteed money, to have two first rounders. It will cost much more for Tebow since he's a QB, too.

So Bowlen didn't save money trading up. It was more expensive.

BroncoInferno
04-23-2010, 10:50 PM
I just ran the numbers from last year. Arron Maybin had a $25 Million dollar contract at pick 11.

22 and 25 yielded Percy Harvin and Vontae Davis respecitively. for 14.5 Mil and 11 Mill. It costs more, especially in guaranteed money, to have two first rounders. It will cost much more for Tebow since he's a QB, too.

So Bowlen didn't save money trading up. It was more expensive.

Don't try logic with these bitches.

Houshyamama
04-23-2010, 10:56 PM
I just ran the numbers from last year. Arron Maybin had a $25 Million dollar contract at pick 11.

22 and 25 yielded Percy Harvin and Vontae Davis respecitively. for 14.5 Mil and 11 Mill. It costs more, especially in guaranteed money, to have two first rounders. It will cost much more for Tebow since he's a QB, too.

So Bowlen didn't save money trading up. It was more expensive.

But you get TWO players... the cost per production value is potentially much lower. I'm not condoning the theory that Bowlen is broke, but trading out of the #11 spot and nabbing two LOW first rounders is a cost effective approach in my mind.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-23-2010, 11:18 PM
I subscribed to this theory when Marshall, Dumervil, Scheffler, and Kuper were all up for extensions. Now that two of them are gone, that money is freed up for things like first rounders. Also, these are low first round picks. I still think hes cheap.

bpc
04-23-2010, 11:34 PM
And what are your "facts", dickhead? You have none. He traded three malcontents. What is your evidence that it was a cost cutting venture? I actually do have evidence that you're wrong...we spent a good bit of money in FA agency the last two seasons, not jibing with you're "Clippers model" BS.

Hey jackass, Cutler was HERE after the pro bowl, LEARNING the offense, when others were off partying in southbeach. Malcontent? You're a fool with your nose stuck so far up McDaniels ass, you can't see the light of day.

The money spent in FA is pennies on the dollar vs. high end FA. How many people were pounding down Brian Dawkins door to give him a huge contract? While I love him, we offered him a slightly sweeter deal than the market yielded and he came here. Take that down the line for Goodman, Hill, Davis, whomever. We brought in cheap replacements. We traded arguably our two best players where subsequently paid big money. We traded 1st round picks which turned out to be a higher position at #13 for a 2nd rounder last year. Shanahan was fired making 7 million a year, McD makes 1.

Go on down the line, connect the dots, don't be a tool, think for yourself.

That is all. We'll know next year if Denver is committed to spending money because we're going to have some FA's like Elvis out there on the market. Predictably, you jackasses will probably turn on him and call him out for not being a team player. That's just what you turds do.

bpc
04-23-2010, 11:42 PM
Over the life of the contract, two low first rounders cost more than pick number 11 would.

Pretty good.


This is hilarious that you wrote this.


So you really believe that Shanahan was let go purely to save money and not because of the ten years of mediocrity? This post is so incredibly stupid because it cost Bowlen more to fire Shanahan than to keep him because he paid two coaches, and Shanahan got his full salary for one year to not work for him. If he really was "cheap" and hurting for cash he would have finished out Shanahan's contract.

And the Broncos trading players away that don't fit their system isn't an income thing. We've blown our wad in free agency, out-spending most teams in free agency. I'm not saying Bowlen isn't trying to be prudent, but this idea that we don't have the money to take who we want and were asked to get rid of picks to lower our payroll is bogus.

You're a tool that pretends to know football but you don't. Two low 1st rounders is a cheap alternative to one large contract. Good or bad, this is a low-ball move, just like many of the Bowlen/McD moves over the past year have been. Cutler, Marshall, trading a 2nd for a 1st, Shanahan vs. McDaniels, etc, etc, etc. To call this anything else would be pretend ignorances behind your Orange and Blue colored Bowlen shades.

Denver wasn't mediocre over the past ten years. They won .600 of their games and went to the playoffs 5 out of 10 years, advanced to the AFC championship in 05', and were in contention for 3 or 4 other appearances. Considering that 6 teams make the playoffs, they were in the upper echelon of their conference most years.

I know you can't evaluate talent, now we know you fail at simple mathmatics as well.

Will your witch hunt turn to Elvis Dumervil when it's his time to go? You guys are pathetic.

BroncoInferno
04-23-2010, 11:44 PM
Hey jackass, Cutler was HERE after the pro bowl, LEARNING the offense, when others were off partying in southbeach. Malcontent? You're a fool with your nose stuck so far up McDaniels ass, you can't see the light of day.

The money spent in FA is pennies on the dollar vs. high end FA. How many people were pounding down Brian Dawkins door to give him a huge contract? While I love him, we offered him a slightly sweeter deal than the market yielded and he came here. Take that down the line for Goodman, Hill, Davis, whomever. We brought in cheap replacements. We traded arguably our two best players where subsequently paid big money. We traded 1st round picks which turned out to be a higher position at #13 for a 2nd rounder last year. Shanahan was fired making 7 million a year, McD makes 1.

Go on down the line, connect the dots, don't be a tool, think for yourself.

That is all. We'll know next year if Denver is committed to spending money because we're going to have some FA's like Elvis out there on the market. Predictably, you jackasses will probably turn on him and call him out for not being a team player. That's just what you turds do.

You're an idiot. We've spent millions upon millions in signing bonuses the last two seasons. And, yeah, McD makes less, but as you've pointed out yourself we STILL have to pay Shanny's salary, so it only added to the overall budget. You are the one not thinking for yourself---you are an ass who chooses to hate everything the teams does since they fired your God Shanny.

Kaylore
04-24-2010, 12:25 AM
You're an idiot. We've spent millions upon millions in signing bonuses the last two seasons. And, yeah, McD makes less, but as you've pointed out yourself we STILL have to pay Shanny's salary, so it only added to the overall budget. You are the one not thinking for yourself---you are an ass who chooses to hate everything the teams does since they fired your God Shanny.

I just pointed out the same thing and even after quoting it he completely ignored the point and just said "ur wrong u suk at evaluating talent" and then just repeated the same lies: firing Shanahan saved money (it didn't), its cheaper to have two first Rounders (its not in terms of total money spent as I just proved, which if Bowlen was really poor is all he'd be looking at), and that we aren't spending money on free agents (we're paying Jamal Williams a million more per year than he was making.)

It doesn't matter what you say to BPC; he's pissed about Shanahan being fired, and when proven wrong he just insults you about something unrelated and repeats his false points more to assuage his bruised ego than to actually convince anyone of anything. Disagreeing with him on anything usually degenerates this way.

bpc
04-24-2010, 07:22 AM
You're an idiot. We've spent millions upon millions in signing bonuses the last two seasons. And, yeah, McD makes less, but as you've pointed out yourself we STILL have to pay Shanny's salary, so it only added to the overall budget. You are the one not thinking for yourself---you are an ass who chooses to hate everything the teams does since they fired your God Shanny.

Are you really that dumb? I've basically given McDaniel's a pat on the back this whole draft weekend. He's earned some respect from me with the Tebow pick, not that I wasn't shocked at first. He's laying his balls on the line for this guy. That in itself is inspiring. Let's see him make it happen. I still think McDaniels has a huge ego. That's additionally part of this Tebow deal. Let's roll the dice and see what happens.

As for coaching financials, Bowlen fired Shanahan thinking he would immediately jump back in the coaching market last year, probalby at a higher rate of pay so Pat would be off the hook for him...

Mike slow played him and said... "nnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaahhhhhhh". He didn't accept a coaching job. Bowlen had to pay up.

Mike once again t-bagged Bowlen showing who is the smarter of the two when he signed his Redskins contract. He signed for a significantly lower portion of salary over the first three years at 3.5 million forcing Bowlen to make up the difference to 7million. Pat's going to be lining Shanahan's pocket with 3.5 million per year over the next three.

In the end, the 4.5 (est.) million Bowlen will be spending is significantly less than the 7 million he would have been shelling out. If he had his way, Mike would have just left, took a huge contract, and he would have been off the hook. No such deal.

You're both still idiots that don't really know ****, but go ahead, keep acting like you do. I'm sure some of your butt-buddies around here will circle jerk you and pat you on the back while their at it.

theAPAOps5
04-24-2010, 07:28 AM
Figure out how much it's going to cost for these two low first rounders vs. the #11 pick and then get back to me.

BTW, what's the over/under that we resign Elvis and eventually Clady to contract extensions?

See you're talking **** but have no actual facts. Where as I can point to numerous moves over the past year which are designed specifically as a cost cutting venture. You need not look any farther than Shanahan's replacement, Josh McDaniels.

How did I know you would go with the "Well its not 2 high first rounders so he is still broke argument."

Its not a cost cutting venture. Its a change in philosophy venture getting rid of overpaid malcontents. See Marshall, Cutler, and Scheffler being booted. And its awesome.

Also, why so much anger. Its ok to hate McD and be upset about losing Shanahan but man your replies to Kaylore and BI are pretty anger filled.

rastaman
04-24-2010, 07:40 AM
Tebow and Thomas both kind of destroy that conspiracy theory. We really just liked Smith.

There aren't any BROKE NFL Owners. These franchises make money hand-over fist. :sunshine:

theAPAOps5
04-24-2010, 07:43 AM
There aren't any BROKE NFL Owners. These franchises make money hand-over fist. :sunshine:

And its going to be even more profitable with Tebow. That guy is going to sell a lot of merchandise. St. Tebow has an amazing cult following.

Broncoman13
04-24-2010, 07:44 AM
Figure out how much it's going to cost for these two low first rounders vs. the #11 pick and then get back to me.

BTW, what's the over/under that we resign Elvis and eventually Clady to contract extensions?

See you're talking **** but have no actual facts. Where as I can point to numerous moves over the past year which are designed specifically as a cost cutting venture. You need not look any farther than Shanahan's replacement, Josh McDaniels.

You're my boy and all but you're really only coming off as a whiny kid any more. Maybe you should take a break from football?

eddie mac
04-24-2010, 07:49 AM
Pick 11 will = approx $18m guaranteed
22 and 24 = approx $22m guaranteed

Kaylore
04-24-2010, 07:56 AM
Pick 11 will = approx $18m guaranteed
22 and 24 = approx $22m guaranteed

http://homepage.mac.com/hbsherwood/images/PwnedAgain.jpg

rastaman
04-24-2010, 07:58 AM
How did I know you would go with the "Well its not 2 high first rounders so he is still broke argument."

Its not a cost cutting venture. Its a change in philosophy venture getting rid of overpaid malcontents. See Marshall, Cutler, and Scheffler being booted. And its awesome.

Also, why so much anger. Its ok to hate McD and be upset about losing Shanahan but man your replies to Kaylore and BI are pretty anger filled.

Don't you think feelings are mutual on behalf of Marshall, Cutler, Scheffler, and Hillis no longer wanting to play for an organization that they no longer trust, are under utilizing and appreciating their talents as to why they no longer wanted to wear a Bronco uniform.

Nothing is etched in stone in the NFL. The team that drafts you does not automatically equate to retiring with the team.

Its no longer based on whether the team wants the players, its also based on whether players want to stay on a team as well.

Its no secret the owner, GM, and HC will do whats necessary to win, even if that means getting rid of players. Its also no secret that players can decide whether the team that drafted them is a good fit for themselves career wise.

Players have every right to put their personal and financial pursuits ahead of the owner, the HC and their teammates and should seek out other teams that they can trust, teams that will utilized they're talents, and teams that are willing to pay them what the market will bear and what they're peers are getting paid.

Why disparage the players and let the owners, FO, and HC off the hook! After all the NFL is a Business. There is enough blame to go around for both sides!;)

Cito Pelon
04-24-2010, 08:03 AM
It's mind-boggling anybody could argue 2 1st's is a cost-cutting move. Same with firing Shanahan was a cost-cutting move.

gunns
04-24-2010, 08:04 AM
You're a tool that pretends to know football but you don't. Two low 1st rounders is a cheap alternative to one large contract. Good or bad, this is a low-ball move, just like many of the Bowlen/McD moves over the past year have been. Cutler, Marshall, trading a 2nd for a 1st, Shanahan vs. McDaniels, etc, etc, etc. To call this anything else would be pretend ignorances behind your Orange and Blue colored Bowlen shades.

Denver wasn't mediocre over the past ten years. They won .600 of their games and went to the playoffs 5 out of 10 years, advanced to the AFC championship in 05', and were in contention for 3 or 4 other appearances. Considering that 6 teams make the playoffs, they were in the upper echelon of their conference most years.

I know you can't evaluate talent, now we know you fail at simple mathmatics as well.

Will your witch hunt turn to Elvis Dumervil when it's his time to go? You guys are pathetic.

I have no idea about contracts and economy it does appear that obtaining two players for the base price of one is more economical. Just an observation by a mother who shops economically, maybe I'm way off base.

But the part about being mediocre. What you've posted is like posting stats, it never tells the whole story. Now if we were the Raiders, Lions, KC, I can see us being happy with those mediocre "stats". One you didn't quote was the fact we averaged 9-7 over those 10 years. THAT IS MEDIOCRE, AVERAGE. I remember the days when we were thrilled with a season record like that. It was before the team evolution in 1977. Each season each team's goal is the SB, but some are happy to settle for mediocrity or even the playoffs. I don't see that for the Broncos, especially only WINNING one playoff game in those 10 years. Your stats don't work for the Broncos and that's why Shanahan was fired.

chex
04-24-2010, 08:07 AM
Are you really that dumb? I've basically given McDaniel's a pat on the back this whole draft weekend. He's earned some respect from me with the Tebow pick, not that I wasn't shocked at first. He's laying his balls on the line for this guy. That in itself is inspiring. Let's see him make it happen. I still think McDaniels has a huge ego. That's additionally part of this Tebow deal. Let's roll the dice and see what happens.

As for coaching financials, Bowlen fired Shanahan thinking he would immediately jump back in the coaching market last year, probalby at a higher rate of pay so Pat would be off the hook for him...

Mike slow played him and said... "nnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaahhhhhhh". He didn't accept a coaching job. Bowlen had to pay up.

Mike once again t-bagged Bowlen showing who is the smarter of the two when he signed his Redskins contract. He signed for a significantly lower portion of salary over the first three years at 3.5 million forcing Bowlen to make up the difference to 7million. Pat's going to be lining Shanahan's pocket with 3.5 million per year over the next three.

In the end, the 4.5 (est.) million Bowlen will be spending is significantly less than the 7 million he would have been shelling out. If he had his way, Mike would have just left, took a huge contract, and he would have been off the hook. No such deal.

You're both still idiots that don't really know ****, but go ahead, keep acting like you do. I'm sure some of your butt-buddies around here will circle jerk you and pat you on the back while their at it.

So on the one hand you criticize Bowlen for supposedly being tight with his dollars and it hamstrings the franchise, yet on the other hand you gleefully crow how Shanahan is putting the screws to him financially, possibly causing the very action you criticize Bowlen for in the first place. And yet, you think Shanahan is a god for doing so, in crimping your supposed favorite team's fortunes. Yeah, you're a real Bronco fan through and through.

Drek
04-24-2010, 08:09 AM
Don't you think feelings are mutual on behalf of Marshall, Cutler, Scheffler, and Hillis no longer wanting to play for an organization that they no longer trust, are under utilizing and appreciating their talents as to why they no longer wanted to wear a Bronco uniform.

Nothing is etched in stone in the NFL. The team that drafts you does not automatically equate to retiring with the team.

Its no longer based on whether the team wants the players, its also based on whether players want to stay on a team as well.

Its no secret the owner, GM, and HC will do whats necessary to win, even if that means getting rid of players. Its also no secret that players can decide whether the team that drafted them is a good fit for themselves career wise.

Players have every right to put their personal and financial pursuits ahead of the owner, the HC and their teammates and should seek out other teams that they can trust, teams that will utilized they're talents, and teams that are willing to pay them what the market will bear and what they're peers are getting paid.

Why disparage the players and let the owners, FO, and HC off the hook! After all the NFL is a Business. There is enough blame to go around for both sides!;)

I would think that Josh McDaniels agrees with you completely.

After all, he sent Marshall to his home town state, exactly where Marshall wanted to go. He sent Cutler to his childhood favorite team, exactly where he wanted to go. He sent Scheffler back to Detroit, where he grew up as well.

McDaniels understands that these guys just didn't feel like they wanted to be in Denver anymore. That is entirely within their rights as individuals, but McDaniels has also made it clear that if you aren't 110% committed to helping the Broncos win he'd just as soon not have you around.

You say people let the FO off the hook, but aren't these all examples of the FO respecting the very rights you say players should have?

I think the disparaging remarks towards Marshall have been a a little overblown, but his off-field antics poisoned the well here. I still have great respect for him and hope he absolutely kills it in Miami.

Cutler and Scheffler though? They started the bad blood with the fans. Cutler by basically calling the new HC a liar, waging a local media PR war against the team, and then telling an outright lie once he's traded to Chicago. Of course fans are going to be pissed at that kind of negative bull****. Scheffler meanwhile actually said he wished the season would end while we where still in the playoff hunt. Even John Elway said he wouldn't tolerate that from a teammate.

A lot of the problems with Cutler and Scheffler stem from their own immaturity in handling the situation. McDaniels has done everything in his power to facilitate a player's wishes even if they are to no longer be a Denver Bronco.

All I see McDaniels doing the last year and some odd months is proving that he's the most stand up, honest, and forthright HC in the NFL. He doesn't blow smoke with the fans or the players. He's truthful to a fault but he's also blunt with regards to his expectations. Some people can't handle that, but that is their problem because this is how McDaniels wants to build a winner.

Maybe nice guys do always finish last in the NFL but McDaniels and his character + smarts > all approach will put that notion to the test over the next couple years.

bpc
04-24-2010, 08:13 AM
So on the one hand you criticize Bowlen for supposedly being tight with his dollars and it hamstrings the franchise, yet on the other hand you gleefully crow how Shanahan is putting the screws to him financially, possibly causing the very action you criticize Bowlen for in the first place. And yet, you think Shanahan is a god for doing so, in crimping your supposed favorite team's fortunes. Yeah, you're a real Bronco fan through and through.

You call it crowing... I call it Bowlen f'ing Shanahan with a 2 minute meeting firing after 15 years of service, 2 super bowls, and then retribution. $$$$ now owes him dollars.

You're g' damn right I think it's hilarious.

Since I believe Bowlen doesn't have any intention of paying out a ton of money to compete moving forward, good for Mike. Get yours buddy. He's earned it.

rastaman
04-24-2010, 08:17 AM
And its going to be even more profitable with Tebow. That guy is going to sell a lot of merchandise. St. Tebow has an amazing cult following.

Sure Tebow is the 2nd coming of Kordell "Slash" Stewart! We still don't have a QB yet!

Its starting to look more and more that McD has brought the Barnum-n-Bailey Circus and Peyton Place to Denver.

By the way merchandise can packaged and sold to SUCKERS!

chex
04-24-2010, 08:18 AM
You call it crowing... I call it Bowlen f'ing Shanahan with a 2 minute meeting firing after 15 years of service, 2 super bowls, and then retribution. $$$$ now owes him dollars.

You're g' damn right I think it's hilarious.

Since I believe Bowlen doesn't have any intention of paying out a ton of money to compete moving forward, good for Mike. Get yours buddy. He's earned it.

Spoken like a true fan.

bpc
04-24-2010, 08:20 AM
How did I know you would go with the "Well its not 2 high first rounders so he is still broke argument."

Its not a cost cutting venture. Its a change in philosophy venture getting rid of overpaid malcontents. See Marshall, Cutler, and Scheffler being booted. And its awesome.

Also, why so much anger. Its ok to hate McD and be upset about losing Shanahan but man your replies to Kaylore and BI are pretty anger filled.

It's simple economics and the thought that i'll give up potentially 1 great player, and that contract, to get a few lesser players for equal money. So are we always going to pass up potentially great players to have more average to good one's? I don't totally disagree with the move THIS year, but it's something that we've seen happening from last years draft rolling into this years draft when we pawned off our 1st (seattle's 13th overall this year) for pennies on the dollar to add a backup CB last year. Look at the players we've allowed to leave. I'm about 85% Elvis Dumervil will be gone after next year, i'm just hoping McDaniels proves me wrong.

There's no anger really. Kaylore normally talks out of his ass towards things like Mike Shanahan, so it's my duty to smack him back down and tell him to STFU. I couldn't tell you who the other stooge is who's all up in arms on this thread.

bpc
04-24-2010, 08:23 AM
Spoken like a true fan.

Buddy, i've been a fan longer than you know. I've walked into some of the worst stadiums with my Broncos jersey hanging off me. I bleed orange and blue, for the Denver Broncos. I don't bleed for Pat Bowlen. He can eat some balls. So can you.

rastaman
04-24-2010, 08:25 AM
I would think that Josh McDaniels agrees with you completely.

After all, he sent Marshall to his home town state, exactly where Marshall wanted to go. He sent Cutler to his childhood favorite team, exactly where he wanted to go. He sent Scheffler back to Detroit, where he grew up as well.

McDaniels understands that these guys just didn't feel like they wanted to be in Denver anymore. That is entirely within their rights as individuals, but McDaniels has also made it clear that if you aren't 110% committed to helping the Broncos win he'd just as soon not have you around.

You say people let the FO off the hook, but aren't these all examples of the FO respecting the very rights you say players should have?

I think the disparaging remarks towards Marshall have been a a little overblown, but his off-field antics poisoned the well here. I still have great respect for him and hope he absolutely kills it in Miami.

Cutler and Scheffler though? They started the bad blood with the fans. Cutler by basically calling the new HC a liar, waging a local media PR war against the team, and then telling an outright lie once he's traded to Chicago. Of course fans are going to be pissed at that kind of negative bull****. Scheffler meanwhile actually said he wished the season would end while we where still in the playoff hunt. Even John Elway said he wouldn't tolerate that from a teammate.

A lot of the problems with Cutler and Scheffler stem from their own immaturity in handling the situation. McDaniels has done everything in his power to facilitate a player's wishes even if they are to no longer be a Denver Bronco.

All I see McDaniels doing the last year and some odd months is proving that he's the most stand up, honest, and forthright HC in the NFL. He doesn't blow smoke with the fans or the players. He's truthful to a fault but he's also blunt with regards to his expectations. Some people can't handle that, but that is their problem because this is how McDaniels wants to build a winner.

Maybe nice guys do always finish last in the NFL but McDaniels and his character + smarts > all approach will put that notion to the test over the next couple years.

I agree with you Derek. It takes two to tango. Change is difficult but it comes whether you're ready for it or not. Everything happens for a reason. I believe in destiny and everything that has transpired since Shanahan's firing to the hiring of McDaniel's, the last two drafts, and the jettison trades of Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis was the destiny of all involved.

Its All Good.

Kaylore
04-24-2010, 08:26 AM
Buddy, i've been a fan longer than you know. I've walked into some of the worst stadiums with my Broncos jersey hanging off me. I bleed orange and blue, for the Denver Broncos. I don't bleed for Pat Bowlen. He can eat some balls. So can you.

Your allegiance is to Mike Shanahan, not the Broncos. Go be a Redskins fan with Atlas.

chex
04-24-2010, 08:28 AM
Buddy, i've been a fan longer than you know. I've walked into some of the worst stadiums with my Broncos jersey hanging off me. I bleed orange and blue, for the Denver Broncos. I don't bleed for Pat Bowlen. He can eat some balls. So can you.

Well we know you aren't able to, not with the Shanahan Specials bulging in your cheeks.

BroncoInferno
04-24-2010, 08:29 AM
Buddy, i've been a fan longer than you know. I've walked into some of the worst stadiums with my Broncos jersey hanging off me. I bleed orange and blue, for the Denver Broncos. I don't bleed for Pat Bowlen. He can eat some balls. So can you.

Can you please provide us with actual evidence that Bowlen is penny pinching? We've been one of the most active teams in FA the past two offseasons, spending millions in signing bonuses. Surely you don't believe the Cutler trade was a cost cutting move? He still had two years left on his rookie deal at the time. You could argue that the Marshall trade was at least in part fiscally motivated, but you can't deny the off the field stuff made it reasonable for any team to be hesitant to invest in him long term. Plus, McD has been putting his money where his mouth is in terms of getting character guys, whereas Shanny always took chances on bums like Dale Carter and Maurice Clarett. And don't tell me that Bowlen did not consider the possibility that Shanny would sit out a year when he fired him. He knew that was possible and was willing to pay up anyway. You simply have no evidence to support this "Clipper model" assertion.

Drek
04-24-2010, 08:32 AM
I agree with you Derek. It takes two to tango. Change is difficult but it comes whether you're ready for it or not. Everything happens for a reason. I believe in destiny and everything that has transpired since Shanahan's firing to the hiring of McDaniel's, the last two drafts, and the jettison trades of Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis was the destiny of all involved.

Its All Good.

Exactly.

McDaniels is a player's coach. Honest, up front, and he doesn't sugar coat or blow smoke up your ass.

But you've got to want to be his player. If not he's fine with that, just let him get good value on your way out of town.

chex
04-24-2010, 08:36 AM
Can you please provide us with actual evidence that Bowlen is penny pinching? We've been one of the most active teams in FA the past two offseasons, spending millions in signing bonuses. Surely you don't believe the Cutler trade was a cost cutting move? He still had two years left on his rookie deal at the time. You could argue that the Marshall trade was at least in part fiscally motivated, but you can't deny the off the field stuff made it reasonable for any team to be hesitant to invest in him long term. Plus, McD has been putting his money where his mouth is in terms of getting character guys, whereas Shanny always took chances on bums like Dale Carter and Maurice Clarett. And don't tell me that Bowlen did not consider the possibility that Shanny would sit out a year when he fired him. He knew that was possible and was willing to pay up anyway. You simply have no evidence to support this "Clipper model" assertion.

He can't, but don't let that stop you from believing he's SuperFan!, and that he's been a fan of the Broncos since before he was born, and that he really, really loves his team, despite the crap he's posted the past year +!

colorado jones
04-24-2010, 08:58 AM
Can you please provide us with actual evidence that Bowlen is penny pinching?

This...BPC unless you work in the Broncos accouting department, do you really know for sure your claim is true?

Let me know when you have those Bronco financials in hand....then we can chat.

BroncoBuff
04-24-2010, 09:10 AM
Figure out how much it's going to cost for these two low first rounders vs. the #11 pick and then get back to me.

Not necessarily agreeing with your arument, but this quote is correct.

Picks 22 and 25 make little if any more than 11.

Drek
04-24-2010, 09:12 AM
Not necessarily agreeing with your arument, but this quote is correct.

Picks 22 and 25 make little if any more than 11.

Buff, its been provided in this very thread. 22 and 25 will make more, both in terms of total salary and in terms of guaranteed money.

That is even before you add a QB markup to Tebow's contract.

BroncoBuff
04-24-2010, 09:16 AM
Buff, its been provided in this very thread. 22 and 25 will make more, both in terms of total salary and in terms of guaranteed money.

That is even before you add a QB markup to Tebow's contract.

If that's the case, things have changed the last couple years, since the Cutler #11 contract.

Either way, I don't agree ... I don't think Bowlen has ever pinched a pennny with the team.

Kaylore
04-24-2010, 09:17 AM
Not necessarily agreeing with your arument, but this quote is correct.

Picks 22 and 25 make little if any more than 11.

No, it's not. You didn't even read the thread, did you?

Play2win
04-24-2010, 09:18 AM
its called good business and smart money. Its just as simple as that. Just because you are really rich, does not mean those things are obsolete.

Drek
04-24-2010, 09:36 AM
If that's the case, things have changed the last couple years, since the Cutler #11 contract.

Either way, I don't agree ... I don't think Bowlen has ever pinched a pennny with the team.

First page, posted by our resident capologist Eddie Mac.

#11 - $18M last year in guaranteed money.

#22+#25 - $22M last year in guaranteed money.

Add the ~10% bump you see every year and the gap widens (19.8 vs. 24.2) Add the extra bump Tebow will see for being a QB and you're talking over 25% more guaranteed money, not even considering that you're talking a near logarithmic increase for total dollars versus guaranteed dollars (i.e. significantly more base salary with less guaranteed in the back end of a first round selection's deal, regardless of where they're taken).

NYBronco
04-24-2010, 09:45 AM
I just ran the numbers from last year. Arron Maybin had a $25 Million dollar contract at pick 11.

22 and 25 yielded Percy Harvin and Vontae Davis respecitively. for 14.5 Mil and 11 Mill. It costs more, especially in guaranteed money, to have two first rounders. It will cost much more for Tebow since he's a QB, too.

So Bowlen didn't save money trading up. It was more expensive.

Don't you need to subtract the value for our #2, #3 and #4 pick we gave up to make the #25 Tebow selection?

rastaman
04-24-2010, 09:46 AM
Spoken like a true fan.

There are no more fans per-say! We are more customers than fans. Once an NFL franchise takes on a corporate entity, corporate TV/cable contracts, name their stadiums after corporations, etc., they are corporations.

Corporations don't have FANS.....they have CUSTOMERS! So there are no more TRUE FANS. When you buy team jersey's and other merchandise you are customer

Every owner in the NFL looks at the fans as CUSTOMERS.....that's the truth.

BroncoBuff
04-24-2010, 09:58 AM
Don't you think feelings are mutual on behalf of Marshall, Cutler, Scheffler, and Hillis no longer wanting to play for an organization that they no longer trust?

Definitely correct, always two sides to a story. And as I've pointed out, it's only the offensive players and position coaches who suddenly became "malcontents." And the defensive coordinator. Every single one under Josh's purview. But no defensive players or position coaches have been problems, and all of them have a buffer between themselves and Josh.

This is undeniably an indicator that Josh MIGHT be a problem. Doesn't prove it of course, but all of these facts, added to it the recent Nolan interview, and it seems something is amiss with Josh's people skills. To pretend otherwise is just denal. Drek, you're a great poster and I love your positivity ... but at some point doesn't "having an explanation for everything" get a bit old? Nobody's saying fire the kid (not me anyway), but there are some undeniable indicators that his approach seems to breed disagreement and even resentment.

theAPAOps5
04-24-2010, 10:01 AM
Yeah its almost as old as those people who criticize EVERY move Josh does because they don't like him. He has had a great draft with only one really controversial pick. Yet people have even criticized the excellent OL picks. That is just as tired as people making excuses defending Josh Mcdaniels.

Drek
04-24-2010, 10:17 AM
This is undeniably an indicator that Josh MIGHT be a problem. Doesn't prove it of course, but all of these facts, added to it the recent Nolan interview, and it seems something is amiss with Josh's people skills. To pretend otherwise is just denal. Drek, you're a great poster and I love your positivity ... but at some point doesn't "having an explanation for everything" get a bit old? Nobody's saying fire the kid (not me anyway), but there are some undeniable indicators that his approach seems to breed disagreement and even resentment.

He's not giving explanations for anything though Buff. It is what it is and Josh doesn't hold any grudges.

Its obvious after the fact that Nolan and McDaniels where linked up because they have the same agent. But you act like the end of that relationship came because of Josh's poor people skills, and cite problems with previous players (Cutler and Scheffler) as corroborating evidence.

What about the half dozen different teams Nolan has worked for though? He's butted heads with more than a few of his colleagues and players in his time as well. That doesn't carry weight when you put McDaniels' ability to deal with people on trial?

Nolan left and went somewhere he'll have much more control over the defense. Here it was always going to be Josh's defense ran by Mike Nolan. That is why we did not run Nolan's style of 3-4 last year and instead ran a more attack oriented system. It was what Josh wanted. Why would Nolan, a guy who likely wants to get back to being a HC, stay in the shadow of Josh's desires when he can use Miami as a springboard to bigger and better things?

Seems like the most logical reason behind their separation if you ask me.

Some players choose to poison the well to get out of town, like Cutler and Scheffler. They made their displeasure public knowledge. Marshall meanwhile, as shocking as it seems, handled things the most maturely and he left on what both parties say is very good terms.

Every new player who's come in here and had no ties to the previous regime have said that McDaniels is honest, straight forward, and a great coach to work for. All the people McDaniels used to work with for other teams say the same thing. So should we trust the handful of highly motivated people who say he did them wrong or the dozens of people with no particular interest who say he did nothing but right by them?

TheReverend
04-24-2010, 10:24 AM
On one hand, bpc totally has a point. Two low first rounders are significantly cheaper than two early-mid firsts

On the other hand, and something Kaylore didn't even mention, not only did we trade back into the first to select another player, but we did it to choose a QB, a position who get's paid a bump higher than any positions taking in a particular slot.

In the end, I think the reality is somewhere in between. We should absolutely be locking up some of our better players, but have shipped some out the door and have 2 stellar guys on RFA deals. So the inaction thus far there certainly allows taking another bottom of the first player... especially when we package three picks (3 less players to pay and possibly extend) to get him.

BroncoBuff
04-24-2010, 10:25 AM
Yeah its almost as old as those people who criticize EVERY move Josh does because they don't like him. He has had a great draft with only one really controversial pick. Yet people have even criticized the excellent OL picks. That is just as tired as people making excuses defending Josh Mcdaniels.

There was nothing really to argue with my post there .... just a few facts and a possible/plausible conlusion that follows.

And "every" move? Not me, I love this draft (except Tebow, though I'm coming around on him).

J.D. Walton is the best draft pick Josh has made yet. Plus I loved the way he talked up Beadles as a center ... classic smokescreen.

Dagmar
04-24-2010, 10:27 AM
You're a tool that pretends to know football but you don't.

Will your witch hunt turn to Elvis Dumervil when it's his time to go? You guys are pathetic.

You say that to Kaylore? Really? I could write for PAGES of why I love this guy and his commitment to the Broncos and his intelligence.

Instead, :rofl:

theAPAOps5
04-24-2010, 10:29 AM
There was nothing really to argue with my post there .... just a few facts and a possible/plausible conlusion that follows.

And "every" move? Not me, I love this draft (except Tebow, though I'm coming around on him).

J.D. Walton is the best draft pick Josh has made yet. Plus I loved the way he talked up Beadles as a center ... classic smokescreen.

My point is that there are both sides to the factions. The ones who criticize every move and the ones who defend ever move. Its tired on both sides. I didn't like the departure of Nolan and was vocal about it but I also am going to give McD credit for things too.

I love what McD did with this draft. He traded down to gain picks to move back up. He used other peoples picks to get a player he wanted. That was something that impressed me as opposed to last year where he sacrificed our future picks which I didn't like.

Buff yesterday you called the Zane Beadles OL pick a bigger reach than Tebow when it came down. Which was shocking as he was in mayocks top OL and is reported to be able to play 4 OL positions.

Dagmar
04-24-2010, 10:30 AM
Buff = dragster without the hate speech.

theAPAOps5
04-24-2010, 10:31 AM
Hey Dagmar hows the hangover!

Kaylore
04-24-2010, 10:32 AM
On one hand, bpc totally has a point. Two low first rounders are significantly cheaper than two early-mid firsts

On the other hand, and something Kaylore didn't even mention, not only did we trade back into the first to select another player, but we did it to choose a QB, a position who get's paid a bump higher than any positions taking in a particular slot.


Actually I did. You people don't read.

22 and 25 yielded Percy Harvin and Vontae Davis respecitively. for 14.5 Mil and 11 Mill. It costs more, especially in guaranteed money, to have two first rounders. It will cost much more for Tebow since he's a QB, too.

TheReverend
04-24-2010, 10:33 AM
Actually I did. You people don't read.

Ah. I read the first page and replied since it was already too bitchy for my tastes on both sides.

Dagmar
04-24-2010, 10:34 AM
Hey Dagmar hows the hangover!

Went for a run.

Hungry now.

Attempting to avoid the junk food option.

:strong::strong::strong:

theAPAOps5
04-24-2010, 10:35 AM
Actually I did. You people don't read.

You people!? Whats that supposed to mean

http://snarkerati.com/movie-news/files/2009/01/robert-downey-jr-tropic-thunder.jpg

HAT
04-24-2010, 10:38 AM
Was there a single mock draft that actually had the Broncos taking Thomas.

Walter Football had Denver taking him at 43.

TheReverend
04-24-2010, 10:39 AM
Actually I did. You people don't read.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0ZOm2YhOI4c&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0ZOm2YhOI4c&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

:wiggle:

Dagmar
04-24-2010, 10:45 AM
I'm on a horse!

Popps
04-24-2010, 10:49 AM
Exactly. BPC's "we're using the Clippers model" post looks pretty foolish now, like most of his takes since the Shanny firing.


Wait, BPC looked foolish?



What!?

azbroncfan
04-24-2010, 10:52 AM
You need not look any farther than Shanahan's replacement, Josh McDaniels.

This might be one of the stupidest statements I have heard here.

bpc
04-24-2010, 10:53 AM
You say that to Kaylore? Really? I could write for PAGES of why I love this guy and his commitment to the Broncos and his intelligence.

Instead, :rofl:

Ha ha. Ok. This is great comedy coming from you.

What's the weight of your opinion worth considering you change names to have heat taken off of you every 3 months? Be true to your convictions Rusty T. ha ha.

bpc
04-24-2010, 10:56 AM
Wait, BPC looked foolish?



What!?

Hey, tell us about how great Kyle Orton is again, and how we have nothing to worry about at QB? ha ha, McDaniels, thankfully, didn't support you in that sillyness. One of the best decisions he's made thus far in Denver.

Kaylore
04-24-2010, 10:58 AM
:wiggle:
Glad you caught my rep reference!

azbroncfan
04-24-2010, 11:09 AM
Are you really that dumb? I've basically given McDaniel's a pat on the back this whole draft weekend. He's earned some respect from me with the Tebow pick, not that I wasn't shocked at first. He's laying his balls on the line for this guy. That in itself is inspiring. Let's see him make it happen. I still think McDaniels has a huge ego. That's additionally part of this Tebow deal. Let's roll the dice and see what happens.

As for coaching financials, Bowlen fired Shanahan thinking he would immediately jump back in the coaching market last year, probalby at a higher rate of pay so Pat would be off the hook for him...

Mike slow played him and said... "nnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaahhhhhhh". He didn't accept a coaching job. Bowlen had to pay up.

Mike once again t-bagged Bowlen showing who is the smarter of the two when he signed his Redskins contract. He signed for a significantly lower portion of salary over the first three years at 3.5 million forcing Bowlen to make up the difference to 7million. Pat's going to be lining Shanahan's pocket with 3.5 million per year over the next three.

In the end, the 4.5 (est.) million Bowlen will be spending is significantly less than the 7 million he would have been shelling out. If he had his way, Mike would have just left, took a huge contract, and he would have been off the hook. No such deal.

You're both still idiots that don't really know ****, but go ahead, keep acting like you do. I'm sure some of your butt-buddies around here will circle jerk you and pat you on the back while their at it.

The above is just throwing SH!T at the wall and hoping it sticks. The only thing that Pat knew if he canned Shanny was he was stuck for his contract. He didn't know one way or another when or if Shanny would coach again.

BroncoBuff
04-24-2010, 11:11 AM
I love what McD did with this draft. He traded down to gain picks to move back up. He used other peoples picks to get a player he wanted. That was something that impressed me as opposed to last year where he sacrificed our future picks which I didn't like.

Agreed, he definitely seems slick and polished the way he's swapping up and down and up.

I'm coming around in a big way on Tebow, mostly because of this article: It's a beautiful piece of exactly the kind of well-researched analysis I love (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=91069). Everyone on this board should read that article, it's a mandatory must-read. If you read it, but still hate the Tebow pick, well ... just as I said above, you're in denial of what is a very possible/plausible conclusion.


Buff yesterday you called the Zane Beadles OL pick a bigger reach than Tebow when it came down. Which was shocking as he was in mayocks top OL and is reported to be able to play 4 OL positions.

Ya' got me there ... thought he was an OT, and first Google listed him as a 3rd/4th rounder. Couple minutes later saw he had shot up the boards and was probably an OG. Posted too quick, should've deleted it.


Seriously, this O-line looks phenomenal. I have no doubt Walton will start immediately ... so if Olsen or Beadles steps up at LG, we have the best young O-line in the league, save maybe the Jets. Best part is Chris Kuper is the old man! :~ohyah!:

theAPAOps5
04-24-2010, 11:13 AM
Fair enough Buff that makes sense. I was surprised because I read your comment just when Mayock was saying what a great pick it was.

I am not sold on Tebow other than he is a football player who tries hard and is a winner at everything he does. Doesn't mean he will be a success but the track record is there.

The only problem is we can't make fun of San Diego and Rivers throwing motion anymore! :)

Dagmar
04-24-2010, 11:15 AM
Ha ha. Ok. This is great comedy coming from you.

What's the weight of your opinion worth considering you change names to have heat taken off of you every 3 months? Be true to your convictions Rusty T. ha ha.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I changed my name twice in 5 years. Once to Rusty, then back.


:welcome:

Dagmar
04-24-2010, 11:16 AM
Ha ha. Ok. This is great comedy coming from you.

What's the weight of your opinion worth considering you change names to have heat taken off of you every 3 months? Be true to your convictions Rusty T. ha ha.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I changed my name twice in 5 years. Once to Rusty, then back.
And your intelligence in ripping the name, is to call me Rusty Trombone. :-*

:welcome:

Steve Prefontaine
04-24-2010, 11:19 AM
it's weird. I think a few people blasting bpc ITT were crying about bowlen "penny pinching" just 2 years ago during free agency.

bpc
04-24-2010, 11:20 AM
The above is just throwing **** at the wall and hoping it sticks. The only thing that Pat knew if he canned Shanny was he was stuck for his contract. He didn't know one way or another when or if Shanny would coach again.

Bull****. It's widely known by Bowlen that Shanahan is two things:

1. Competitive as HELL

2. Vengeful

I bet Pat thought Shanahan was going to try like hell to find a job within a week of being fire (hence why Bowlen made the decision A DAY after the season ended) and figured he was try to get back at him on the field. PB gave him literally the WHOLE offseason to get a job thinking Mike would recharge, get bored, want another gig.

Well, Mike's a pretty smart guy. He decided to take the season off on Bowlen's dime (well-deserved considering his work ethic), eventually he'll get his revenge on the field by being successful w/ Washington (sucks for us fans) and he managed to make a deal with Snyder which keeps him on Bowlen's payroll for a few more seasons. (break that off in your ass Bowlen)

Honestly, I feel like things are square between Mike and Pat now after Shanny's contract runs out in a few years. Penance has been paid IMO for all that Mike did making Pat legitimate in Denver.

Never underestimate the eye of Shanahan.

azbroncfan
04-24-2010, 11:24 AM
Bull****. It's widely known by Bowlen that Shanahan is two things:

1. Competitive as HELL

2. Vengeful

I bet Pat thought Shanahan was going to try like hell to find a job within a week of being fire (hence why Bowlen made the decision A DAY after the season ended) and figured he was try to get back at him on the field. PB gave him literally the WHOLE offseason to get a job thinking Mike would recharge, get bored, want another gig.

Well, Mike's a pretty smart guy. He decided to take the season off on Bowlen's dime (well-deserved considering his work ethic), eventually he'll get his revenge on the field by being successful w/ Washington (sucks for us fans) and he managed to make a deal with Snyder which keeps him on Bowlen's payroll for a few more seasons. (break that off in your ass Bowlen)

Honestly, I feel like things are square between Mike and Pat now after Shanny's contract runs out in a few years. Penance has been paid IMO for all that Mike did making Pat legitimate in Denver.

Never underestimate the eye of Shanahan.

Who was the last coach that got fired and immediately got another job without taking a year off? Mangini is who I can think of but the only thing Bowlen was sure of was he was responsible for Shanny's contract.

Dagmar
04-24-2010, 11:25 AM
Bull****. It's widely known by Bowlen that Shanahan is two things:

1. Competitive as HELL

2. Vengeful

I bet Pat thought Shanahan was going to try like hell to find a job within a week of being fire (hence why Bowlen made the decision A DAY after the season ended) and figured he was try to get back at him on the field. PB gave him literally the WHOLE offseason to get a job thinking Mike would recharge, get bored, want another gig.

Well, Mike's a pretty smart guy. He decided to take the season off on Bowlen's dime (well-deserved considering his work ethic), eventually he'll get his revenge on the field by being successful w/ Washington (sucks for us fans) and he managed to make a deal with Snyder which keeps him on Bowlen's payroll for a few more seasons. (break that off in your ass Bowlen)

Honestly, I feel like things are square between Mike and Pat now after Shanny's contract runs out in a few years. Penance has been paid IMO for all that Mike did making Pat legitimate in Denver.

Never underestimate the eye of Shanahan.

This is for you
http://ifyoulikemecheckthisbox.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/jersey1.jpg

bpc
04-24-2010, 11:26 AM
it's weird. I think a few people blasting bpc ITT were crying about bowlen "penny pinching" just 2 years ago during free agency.

THANK YOU! People deflect this thought now, just two years later.

People b**** about this now and they wonder why Mike had to sign guys like Nate Webster, Niko Koutivides, Marquad Manual. Bowlen put a freeze on spending, I imagine CFO Joe Ellis came up with a action plan to keep the Broncos profitable. Out with Shanahan, in with a cheap 32 yr old. Out with Cutler, in with Orton. Out with Marshall, in with Gaffney. Out with Nolan, in with Wink? Out with Elvis and Clady........

It was largely speculated behind the scenes at that time money was tight. It wasn't the only factor in the poor quality of play on the field, but it didn't help at all.

azbroncfan
04-24-2010, 11:27 AM
THANK YOU! People deflect this thought now, just two years later.

People b**** about this now and they wonder why Mike had to sign guys like Nate Webster, Niko Koutivides, Marquad Manual. Bowlen put a freeze on spending, Ellis came up with a action plan to keep the Broncos profitable.

It was largely speculated behind the scenes at that time money was tight. It wasn't the only factor in the poor quality of play on the field, but it didn't help at all.

What NFL franchise isn't profitable?

bpc
04-24-2010, 11:30 AM
What NFL franchise isn't profitable?

If Bowlen has 2 different businesses and the Broncos are plus money, and his real estate business is getting destroyed, guess what, the owner overall is SOL.

Tombstone RJ
04-24-2010, 11:30 AM
Bull****. It's widely known by Bowlen that Shanahan is two things:

1. Competitive as HELL

2. Vengeful

I bet Pat thought Shanahan was going to try like hell to find a job within a week of being fire (hence why Bowlen made the decision A DAY after the season ended) and figured he was try to get back at him on the field. PB gave him literally the WHOLE offseason to get a job thinking Mike would recharge, get bored, want another gig.

Well, Mike's a pretty smart guy. He decided to take the season off on Bowlen's dime (well-deserved considering his work ethic), eventually he'll get his revenge on the field by being successful w/ Washington (sucks for us fans) and he managed to make a deal with Snyder which keeps him on Bowlen's payroll for a few more seasons. (break that off in your ass Bowlen)

Honestly, I feel like things are square between Mike and Pat now after Shanny's contract runs out in a few years. Penance has been paid IMO for all that Mike did making Pat legitimate in Denver.

Never underestimate the eye of Shanahan.

You are such a blowhard. Keep blowing buddy. It's what your best at. :notworthy:notworthy

bpc
04-24-2010, 11:31 AM
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I changed my name twice in 5 years. Once to Rusty, then back.
And your intelligence in ripping the name, is to call me Rusty Trombone. :-*

:welcome:

If the name fits........

BroncoBuff
04-24-2010, 11:34 AM
Fair enough Buff that makes sense. I was surprised because I read your comment just when Mayock was saying what a great pick it was.

I don't like to admit this in public, but my Neanderthal cable company does not have NFLN.

I know I know, how do I survive? It might be okay if ESPN would let Schefter and McShay and even Mort talk more, but they have those four idiots on the desk wasting all the airtime.


I am not sold on Tebow other than he is a football player who tries hard and is a winner at everything he does. Doesn't mean he will be a success but the track record is there.

Read that article, but you have of course. It makes all the right points, a classic, well structured, realistic advocacy. And its' conclusion dovetails perfectly with my life-long mantra, "the draft is a crapshoot." They point this out very well by listing the "expert" talent evaluators' many, many mistakes.



The only problem is we can't make fun of San Diego and Rivers throwing motion anymore! :)

I suppose not ... but Rivers is a target-rich environment for ridicule. Never did get an explanation that made sense for his "Circuus Kircus" t-shirt ???

Drek, you listed all those QB's various odd throwing motions ... what about Claussen? He always looked damn near 3/4 to me.

Popps
04-24-2010, 11:47 AM
This is for you
http://ifyoulikemecheckthisbox.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/jersey1.jpg

:rofl:

bpc
04-24-2010, 11:48 AM
You are such a blowhard. Keep blowing buddy. It's what your best at. :notworthy:notworthy

Half the **** I post pisses people off because it's true.

No apologies on my end. Truth hurts sometimes.

Shanahan owns Bowlen like he owns Al Davis. That will be very apparent once he wins another super bowl with the Redskins.

Let's just hope McD can keep pace. This draft gives me a little hope.

theAPAOps5
04-24-2010, 11:50 AM
Yeah I read that article and thought it was really well put. But in the end its got to be supported on the field which still is a big question mark. But again like TheRev said and what that article stated you just don't bet against that guy, ever. All he does is succeed and rise to the top.

Just look at the draft. After his college career ended he was projected to be 3rd or 4th round. Then he had a great exhibition season and was rising to the second round. No one thought first round but where the Broncos were at I don't think they thought they could wait any longer. A bit of an overreaction maybe so but that will be forgotten if he becomes a great QB.

Either way its something to talk about besides the Cutler, McD, Orton, and marshall merry go round.

bpc
04-24-2010, 11:51 AM
:rofl:

Hey, if Denver isn't in the postseason or Super Bowl, I hope Washington does win. If Shanahan and Portis get rings, good for them. I'll pull for them and be happy about it.

Unlike you guys with a blatant hate for all things Shanny, you'll just be screaming into your hat and kicking your housepets.

Sucks to be you. ha ha. Shanahan worked his ass off to make Denver a success and now that translates to Washington. He deserves the spoils of his hard work and we should be happy for him. Not everybody will. That's just how lame they are.

Tombstone RJ
04-24-2010, 11:54 AM
Half the **** I post pisses people off because it's true.

No apologies on my end. Truth hurts sometimes.

Shanahan owns Bowlen like he owns Al Davis. That will be very apparent once he wins another super bowl with the Redskins.

Let's just hope McD can keep pace. This draft gives me a little hope.

Go root for the Skins. Why are you even here? Seriously dude. Why are you here?

Don't give me this "I'm a Broncos fan" crap when you are obviously a Mike Shanahan fan.

TheReverend
04-24-2010, 12:23 PM
Definitely correct, always two sides to a story. And as I've pointed out, it's only the offensive players and position coaches who suddenly became "malcontents." And the defensive coordinator. Every single one under Josh's purview. But no defensive players or position coaches have been problems, and all of them have a buffer between themselves and Josh.

This is undeniably an indicator that Josh MIGHT be a problem. Doesn't prove it of course, but all of these facts, added to it the recent Nolan interview, and it seems something is amiss with Josh's people skills. To pretend otherwise is just denal. Drek, you're a great poster and I love your positivity ... but at some point doesn't "having an explanation for everything" get a bit old? Nobody's saying fire the kid (not me anyway), but there are some undeniable indicators that his approach seems to breed disagreement and even resentment.

Can you post a link? I must've missed this during one of my off-season breaks.

TheReverend
04-24-2010, 12:25 PM
Go root for the Skins. Why are you even here? Seriously dude. Why are you here?

Don't give me this "I'm a Broncos fan" crap when you are obviously a Mike Shanahan fan.

Coming from the guy who made a thread that he was leaving the Mane?

So I ask you, "Why are you even here? Seriously dude. Why are you here?"

bpc
04-24-2010, 12:26 PM
Go root for the Skins. Why are you even here? Seriously dude. Why are you here?

Don't give me this "I'm a Broncos fan" crap when you are obviously a Mike Shanahan fan.

You're right, i'm a Broncos fan, and a Mike Shanahan fan.

Fan police is out again!

I'M A BETTER FAN THAN YOU, LOOK AT MY FAN PENIS!

Tombstone RJ
04-24-2010, 12:27 PM
Coming from the guy who made a thread that he was leaving the Mane?

So I ask you, "Why are you even here? Seriously dude. Why are you here?"

What are you talking about?

bpc
04-24-2010, 12:27 PM
Can you post a link? I must've missed this during one of my off-season breaks.

WOuld love to see any video supporting this claim as to what happened with NOlan.

Tombstone RJ
04-24-2010, 12:27 PM
You're right, i'm a Broncos fan, and a Mike Shanahan fan.

Fan police is out again!

I'M A BETTER FAN THAN YOU, LOOK AT MY FAN PENIS!

weak

bpc
04-24-2010, 12:34 PM
weak

Weakness is all you vaginas bring to the table.

"YOU LIKE MIKE SHANAHAN STILL, YOU'RE A BAD FAN!!!"

Ha ha. You guy's are lame.

Better things to do this afternoon than worry about you tools. Off to do some yard work and house cleaning.

Tombstone RJ
04-24-2010, 12:36 PM
Weakness is all you vaginas bring to the table.

"YOU LIKE MIKE SHANAHAN STILL, YOU'RE A BAD FAN!!!"

Ha ha. You guy's are lame.

Better things to do this afternoon than worry about you tools. Off to do some yard work and house cleaning.

Clean out your pants too.

TonyR
04-24-2010, 12:38 PM
People b**** about this now and they wonder why Mike had to sign guys like Nate Webster, Niko Koutivides, Marquad Manual. Bowlen put a freeze on spending...


Wow, you really live in your own little made up world, don't you? That bad FA class was because Bowlen was cheap? Seriously? It was Bowlen's fault? Go back and look how much was spent on those players, particularly Boss Bailey. And then explain why McD was so successful with FA's last season presumably under the same constraints. You're a riot.

bpc
04-24-2010, 12:41 PM
BTW, this draft signifies that Kuper won't be with us past this year.

Feel free to bookmark this comment to see if i'm right or wrong.

*cheaper* alternatives.

TonyR
04-24-2010, 12:42 PM
Well, Mike's a pretty smart guy. He decided to take the season off on Bowlen's dime (well-deserved considering his work ethic), eventually he'll get his revenge on the field by being successful w/ Washington (sucks for us fans) and he managed to make a deal with Snyder which keeps him on Bowlen's payroll for a few more seasons. (break that off in your ass Bowlen)

Honestly, I feel like things are square between Mike and Pat now after Shanny's contract runs out in a few years. Penance has been paid IMO for all that Mike did making Pat legitimate in Denver.

So according to you Shanahan screwed over Bowlen, the guy who paid him tens of millions of dollars over several years and gave him control of his footbally organization, and you've decided that Bowlen is the "bad guy" in this scenario? Not very "Christian" of you. Appears you're talking "revenge" instead of "turn the other cheek", no?

Tombstone RJ
04-24-2010, 01:08 PM
BTW, this draft signifies that Kuper won't be with us past this year.

Feel free to bookmark this comment to see if i'm right or wrong.

*cheaper* alternatives.

No thanks.