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View Full Version : John Gruden: It's a crazy league; a lot of dumbass coaches (on Live on ESPN)


MVPlaya
04-23-2010, 05:01 AM
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I wonder who he is talking about...

Dukes
04-23-2010, 05:21 AM
Need more context.......

Drek
04-23-2010, 06:18 AM
I wonder who he is talking about...

Definitely isn't McDaniels because Gruden has been outspoken about his man love for Gruden.

want2bAbronco2
04-23-2010, 06:18 AM
yea i seen that..loved it!

rmsanger
04-23-2010, 06:23 AM
Definitely isn't McDaniels because Gruden has been outspoken about his man love for Tebow.

fixed

LRtagger
04-23-2010, 07:16 AM
I believe Gruden was the only one on the panel defending McDaniels' moves. Steve Young was the most critical.

Drek
04-23-2010, 08:04 AM
fixed

;P

I believe Gruden was the only one on the panel defending McDaniels' moves. Steve Young was the most critical.

Which is hilarious because Young was almost an identical prospect to Tebow with less collegiate success. Athletic lefty with a janky throwing motion. Young played in the USFL and Tampa when they where the worst franchise in the NFL for over a decade, and was asked to play too soon.

When Young got the opportunity to sit and learn like Tebow will get from day one he developed and then flourished.

jhns
04-23-2010, 08:09 AM
That is weird. I was thinking he only said good things about every prospect and team. Listening as the picks were made, every one is going to be great in the future and every team made a great selection.

jhns
04-23-2010, 08:12 AM
I believe Gruden was the only one on the panel defending McDaniels' moves. Steve Young was the most critical.

That is because he has hated on McDaniels since the Cutler move. He actually says the exact same thing as me, McDaniels doesn't know how to deal with players. Every team has divas and questionable personalities. You have to be able to work with these guys and keep them somewhat under control. He now says the same thing with Marshall and laughed the second it came out that our new receiver reminds McDaniels of Marshall.

I think Steve Young is a smart guy. Gruden said every pick in the first round was great as they were made.

Drek
04-23-2010, 08:27 AM
That is because he has hated on McDaniels since the Cutler move. He actually says the exact same thing as me, McDaniels doesn't know how to deal with players. Every team has divas and questionable personalities. You have to be able to work with these guys and keep them somewhat under control. He now says the same thing with Marshall and laughed the second it came out that our new receiver reminds McDaniels of Marshall.

I think Steve Young is a smart guy. Gruden said every pick in the first round was great as they were made.

I'd say Steve Young should maybe dig a little deeper before forming opinions then, because he's wildly off base.

Cutler forced a trade because he A. didn't want to be in Denver without Shanahan/Bates and B. wanted a big dollar extension that Denver wasn't willing to give him.

It had absolutely zero to do with personality.

Marshall was traded because he A. didn't want to live in the Denver locale (makes sense, Florida boys don't like snow) and B. he wanted a big dollar extension that Denver wasn't willing to give him because of his off field issues.

The personal relationship between Marshall and McDaniels appears to be one of the few good things Marshall had going for him in Denver. He still speaks highly of him and McDaniels speaks highly of Marshall as well. McD just didn't want to take the big financial gamble on Marshall's long term behavior and Marshall wasn't willing to take a deal even comparable to what he got form Miami to stay in Denver, where he doesn't want to live.

If there was really this huge personality conflict then why does McDaniels have a tendency to send guys exactly where they want to play? He's doing right by the guys who don't want to be here and don't fit what he's looking to do. Doesn't seem like the actions of a guy who can't handle these players' personalities.

Paladin
04-23-2010, 08:31 AM
I'd say Steve Young should maybe dig a little deeper before forming opinions then, because he's wildly off base.

Cutler forced a trade because he A. didn't want to be in Denver without Shanahan/Bates and B. wanted a big dollar extension that Denver wasn't willing to give him.

It had absolutely zero to do with personality.

Marshall was traded because he A. didn't want to live in the Denver locale (makes sense, Florida boys don't like snow) and B. he wanted a big dollar extension that Denver wasn't willing to give him because of his off field issues.

The personal relationship between Marshall and McDaniels appears to be one of the few good things Marshall had going for him in Denver. He still speaks highly of him and McDaniels speaks highly of Marshall as well. McD just didn't want to take the big financial gamble on Marshall's long term behavior and Marshall wasn't willing to take a deal even comparable to what he got form Miami to stay in Denver, where he doesn't want to live.

If there was really this huge personality conflict then why does McDaniels have a tendency to send guys exactly where they want to play? He's doing right by the guys who don't want to be here and don't fit what he's looking to do. Doesn't seem like the actions of a guy who can't handle these players' personalities.

All true, but the haters don't want to hear it......

llayne
04-23-2010, 08:39 AM
Hey- I was at abar watching the draft. Did anyone say much about the Tebow pick? I know Tom Jackson looked like he wanted to go into a back room and cry.

WolfpackGuy
04-23-2010, 08:42 AM
Hey- I was at abar watching the draft. Did anyone say much about the Tebow pick? I know Tom Jackson looked like he wanted to go into a back room and cry.

Yeah, other than the Broncos head coach, Tebow, and a few stragglers on here, everyone else in the world agrees it was a horrible pick.

jhns
04-23-2010, 08:42 AM
I'd say Steve Young should maybe dig a little deeper before forming opinions then, because he's wildly off base.

Cutler forced a trade because he A. didn't want to be in Denver without Shanahan/Bates and B. wanted a big dollar extension that Denver wasn't willing to give him.

It had absolutely zero to do with personality.

Marshall was traded because he A. didn't want to live in the Denver locale (makes sense, Florida boys don't like snow) and B. he wanted a big dollar extension that Denver wasn't willing to give him because of his off field issues.

The personal relationship between Marshall and McDaniels appears to be one of the few good things Marshall had going for him in Denver. He still speaks highly of him and McDaniels speaks highly of Marshall as well. McD just didn't want to take the big financial gamble on Marshall's long term behavior and Marshall wasn't willing to take a deal even comparable to what he got form Miami to stay in Denver, where he doesn't want to live.

If there was really this huge personality conflict then why does McDaniels have a tendency to send guys exactly where they want to play? He's doing right by the guys who don't want to be here and don't fit what he's looking to do. Doesn't seem like the actions of a guy who can't handle these players' personalities.

I'm sure you think McDaniels know better than everyone in the league. Good for you! The Marshall move would make some sense if he hadn't already made the offense regress a ton before giving up Marshall. Marshall had no problem playing here if he got paid.

As for the Cutler stuff, maybe you should take your own advice. Cutler didn't want out after Shanahan and Bates. McDaniels, Bowlen, Cutler, and his agent have all said he didn't. I'm sure you know more than these 4 what went on between them. Cutler also never asked for more money and had multiple years on his contract. It didn't realy matter what he wanted anyways. He doesn't want to play for us? Good, retire....

Anyways, last draft Young talked about the Cutler situation and made fun of McDaniels. He said he was just like Cutler in attitude. He said he had major fights with coaches. Guess what? The coaches that know how to deal with players made him get over it and he won a ton of games with those coaches.

I'm glad you think you know more about how successful teams are run though. I will take your opinion into consideration if I don't forget about it in 2 minutes.

Paladin
04-23-2010, 08:44 AM
Yeah, other than the Broncos head coach, Tebow, and few stragglers on here, everyone else in the world agrees it was a horrible pick.

Hey, dumbass, look at the threads with polls in them.

Rabb
04-23-2010, 08:45 AM
Yeah, other than the Broncos head coach, Tebow, and a few stragglers on here, everyone else in the world agrees it was a horrible pick.

oh go **** yourself wolf

it's more than a few stragglers, it's more that morons like yourself would find something wrong with anything this team did

seriously, go take a bath with a toaster

WolfpackGuy
04-23-2010, 08:47 AM
oh go **** yourself wolf

it's more than a few stragglers, it's more that morons like yourself would find something wrong with anything this team did

seriously, go take a bath with a toaster

I was in agreement with the trading down and the Thomas pick.

Okay, a dozen stragglers.

Now give me that toaster.

Steve Sewell
04-23-2010, 08:48 AM
That is because he has hated on McDaniels since the Cutler move. He actually says the exact same thing as me, McDaniels doesn't know how to deal with players. Every team has divas and questionable personalities. You have to be able to work with these guys and keep them somewhat under control. He now says the same thing with Marshall and laughed the second it came out that our new receiver reminds McDaniels of Marshall.

I think Steve Young is a smart guy. Gruden said every pick in the first round was great as they were made.

Steve Young is a complete and total Shanahan homer. He was just as irrational with his praise of the Broncos when Shanahan was here as he is with his criticism since McD arrived. I'd take his attitude and what he says about the Broncos with a grain of salt.

I'd actually like to hear what Stink has to say about it. I know that TJ was visibly upset by the Tebow pick, heh you can tell that TJ is still a big-time Bronco fan.

Play2win
04-23-2010, 08:51 AM
oh go **** yourself wolf

it's more than a few stragglers, it's more that morons like yourself would find something wrong with anything this team did

seriously, go take a bath with a toaster

Its alright Wolf is just trying to do his best BPC impression. I think he's got it down pretty well.

Play2win
04-23-2010, 08:54 AM
As far as Steve Young goes, I think he is going to criticize practically every move we do, now that we don't have Shanahan. As much as he was pro-Broncos with Shanny, he will be anti-Broncos without him.

Rabb
04-23-2010, 08:56 AM
I was in agreement with the trading down and the Thomas pick.

Okay, a dozen stragglers.

Now give me that toaster.

that made me lol

I liked the trading down and Thomas pick also

Drek
04-23-2010, 09:05 AM
I'm sure you think McDaniels know better than everyone in the league. Good for you!

I don't recall ever saying that. Love to know where you get that from.

The Marshall move would make some sense if he hadn't already made the offense regress a ton before giving up Marshall. Marshall had no problem playing here if he got paid.
Maybe. But he turned down a similar deal to what Miami gave him (high AAV with little guaranteed money) last off-season to play here. Why would he pass on getting paid a year sooner and then take a deal in Miami that still only guarantees him #12.5M if he didn't just want out of Denver? Marshall's actions point towards him only wanting to stay in Denver if it brought big guaranteed money.

As for the Cutler stuff, maybe you should take your own advice. Cutler didn't want out after Shanahan and Bates. McDaniels, Bowlen, Cutler, and his agent have all said he didn't.
Ok, back it up and provide the links then. He didn't formally request a trade, sure, but he had expressed displeasure with Bates moving on and Shanahan being fired.

Cutler also never asked for more money and had multiple years on his contract. It didn't realy matter what he wanted anyways. He doesn't want to play for us? Good, retire....
He asked for a guarantee that he could not be traded, and McDaniels' word was not enough. So either he wanted a no trade clause put into his deal or he wanted an extension akin to what he got early last year from Chicago.

Funny how it wasn't about money but he got an extension before the halfway point of his first season with Chicago, despite all those years left on his deal.

Anyways, last draft Young talked about the Cutler situation and made fun of McDaniels. He said he was just like Cutler in attitude. He said he had major fights with coaches. Guess what? The coaches that know how to deal with players made him get over it and he won a ton of games with those coaches.
Great, and again Young shows he doesn't know what he's talking about. Cutler and McDaniels didn't argue. They didn't fight over play calling or game management. None of the personality disputes Young says are part and parcel of NFL football happened.

What actually happened is that Cutler heard a rumor about him possibly being shopped in trade talks and then immediately refused to have any contact with the organization that did not go directly through his agent. They didn't argue, Cutler just cut off contact with the team.

I'm glad you think you know more about how successful teams are run though. I will take your opinion into consideration if I don't forget about it in 2 minutes.
I'm just here regurgitating the facts brother. Not my problem if you're unwilling to actually listen. The facts are the facts. It was all made quite clear exactly why both of these players moved on. They aren't coming back and the Broncos are moving on without them. Just is what it is.

HEAV
04-23-2010, 09:07 AM
TJ looked drunk last night... I mean pett'n Boomers hair?

jhns
04-23-2010, 09:16 AM
Maybe. But he turned down a similar deal to what Miami gave him (high AAV with little guaranteed money) last off-season to play here. Why would he pass on getting paid a year sooner and then take a deal in Miami that still only guarantees him #12.5M if he didn't just want out of Denver? Marshall's actions point towards him only wanting to stay in Denver if it brought big guaranteed money.


Ok, back it up and provide the links then. He didn't formally request a trade, sure, but he had expressed displeasure with Bates moving on and Shanahan being fired.


He asked for a guarantee that he could not be traded, and McDaniels' word was not enough. So either he wanted a no trade clause put into his deal or he wanted an extension akin to what he got early last year from Chicago.

Funny how it wasn't about money but he got an extension before the halfway point of his first season with Chicago, despite all those years left on his deal.


Great, and again Young shows he doesn't know what he's talking about. Cutler and McDaniels didn't argue. They didn't fight over play calling or game management. None of the personality disputes Young says are part and parcel of NFL football happened.

What actually happened is that Cutler heard a rumor about him possibly being shopped in trade talks and then immediately refused to have any contact with the organization that did not go directly through his agent. They didn't argue, Cutler just cut off contact with the team.


I'm just here regurgitating the facts brother. Not my problem if you're unwilling to actually listen. The facts are the facts. It was all made quite clear exactly why both of these players moved on. They aren't coming back and the Broncos are moving on without them. Just is what it is.

Umm, Marshall did not receive anything close to that in an offer here. Maybe you should look that up again....

You prove Cutler was mad. You said it. You heard some rumor and now try to present it as a fact. This is why you guys in the "McDaniels is god" camp are such a joke.

Cutler refused to just take his word? Cutler refused all contact after hearing a rumor? Again, it is pretty funny that you have no clue what went on but say others need to dig deeper. I seem to remember Cutler coming in and talking with the coach multiple times after that and the coach continually said he would listen to all offers. I'm not sure where you even get this contract thing from. It didn't come from anyone involved in the situation.

You see, those of us that stay in reality have a better view of the situation. I guess I can see how you support it when you make up a bunch of stuff and act like it really happened that way.

The fact is that a 25 year old got upset, handled a single situation wrong and an inexperienced coach wet the bed. McDaniels handled that situation far worse than Cutler.

Drek
04-23-2010, 09:29 AM
Umm, Marshall did not receive anything close to that in an offer here. Maybe you should look that up again....
The Broncos offered him $9.5M AAV last off-season with little guaranteed money. This year he gets a $9.5M AAV (unless he plays 95% of the STs snaps) with $12.5M guaranteed. That kind of defines little guaranteed money, since he had $2.5M guaranteed from his tender. Guaranteeing the equivalent of one year's AAV on a long term deal is pretty damn safe.

And Marshall could have had that other deal one year sooner. Yet he passed. Maybe he thought he could do better this season or reach FA. But when the offers weren't there you don't think the Broncos put that same offer back on the table?

His deal from Miami is exactly what Klis described the Broncos offering him previously. But he signed it with the Dolphins, not Denver.

You prove Cutler was mad. You said it. You heard some rumor and now try to present it as a fact. This is why you guys in the "McDaniels is god" camp are such a joke.
No, I heard Cutler say "I'm a franchise QB, I should be treated like a franchise QB. I haven't talked to McDaniels and I don't want to talk to McDaniels. He has his version of the events, I have mine, and he isn't going to change that."

Paraphrasing of course, but those are the exact sentiments he was expressing literally the day after the rumor leaked out. To national and local journalists. Multiple times.

But of course I'm just making that up.

Cutler refused to just take his word?
Yep. McDaniels told him that he was no longer being shopped and that McDaniels did not intend to trade him, but that he could not make promises to any player in light of what was best for the team. Cutler/Bus Cook said that was not good enough. Again, from Cutler and Cook's own PR.

Cutler refused all contact after hearing a rumor?
His words, not mine.

I seem to remember Cutler coming in and talking with the coach multiple times after that and the coach continually said he would listen to all offers. I'm not sure where you even get this contract thing from. It didn't come from anyone involved in the situation.
Yep, Cutler came in with his agent and made a demand for a guarantee that Cutler would not be traded. As I said above, McDaniels said he couldn't promise that but he wasn't shopping Cutler at that time and wanted Cutler to be his QB. That apparently wasn't good enough. The only real guarantees of not being traded in the NFL is a no trade clause in the deal (rare) or enough guaranteed money to be prohibitive (more frequently, and exactly what Cutler signed in Chicago just a few months after the trade).

You see, those of us that stay in reality have a better view of the situation. I guess I can see how you support it when you make up a bunch of stuff and act like it really happened that way.

The fact is that a 25 year old got upset, handled a single situation wrong and an inexperienced coach wet the bed. McDaniels handled that situation far worse than Cutler.
So your take is fact without giving examples or explanations. That is reality? While referencing the exact quotes given by Cutler, Cook, etc. is me having some crazy fantasy going on about what really happened?

Interesting viewpoint. I'll take it into consideration.

SportinOne
04-23-2010, 09:48 AM
Yeah, other than the Broncos head coach, Tebow, and a few stragglers on here, everyone else in the world agrees it was a horrible pick.

No.. this is where you are wrong. Check out the polls. It's uncanny how fast all the McDaniels people are waffling. Kerry says that's waffling.

Cito Pelon
04-23-2010, 09:51 AM
TJ looked drunk last night... I mean pett'n Boomers hair?

He did look a little under the weather. I love the guy, but it seemed like the other's on that panel were covering for him a bit.

As for Gruden's "dumbass" comment, I believe they went live juuuuussst a bit too soon. :rofl:

jhns
04-23-2010, 09:52 AM
So your take is fact without giving examples or explanations. That is reality? While referencing the exact quotes given by Cutler, Cook, etc. is me having some crazy fantasy going on about what really happened?

Interesting viewpoint. I'll take it into consideration.

No, you haven't refrenced anything real with either of the situations. You call that the same contract? LOL

You are just as irrational as McDaniels because, like McDaniels, Cutler hurt your feelings. This isn't even worth arguing anymore. It is good comedy to read these kinds of posts though.

Drek
04-23-2010, 10:33 AM
No, you haven't refrenced anything real with either of the situations. You call that the same contract? LOL

You are just as irrational as McDaniels because, like McDaniels, Cutler hurt your feelings. This isn't even worth arguing anymore. It is good comedy to read these kinds of posts though.

So now you aren't even going to try a rebuttal?

Tell me what wasn't real. I paraphrased basically everything Cutler/Cook told us to prove my points. I mean I'm not your secretary so I won't go looking up year old articles that you supposedly where following at the time, but **** isn't hard to find if you need a refresher.

And why don't you prove that the deal offered by the Broncos was nothing like the Dolphins deal then. We've got a journalist with some inside connections saying Marshall was offered a $9.5M AAV deal with little guaranteed money last year and refused. Miami just signed him to a $9.5M AAV deal with little guaranteed money. Where is this drastic difference? Other than one having him play in Miami of course.

You should also follow more closely who you're debating with if you want to make assumptions about what I think. I was critical of Cutler on this board before the end of the '08 season. Even going so far as to say that I would take then rookie QB Matt Ryan over him in a heartbeat, and that Flacco would tempt me very much. Even after defending Cutler's pro bowl nod to Chargers fans on here earlier in the season I was honest with myself and recognized Cutler's choke job down the stretch as what it was, his own failings and weaknesses as a QB. Proof that Rivers deserved the nod over him for that honor.

I'm not the widow here with a grudge. I'm just a football fan who looks at what Cutler did here over his short stay and thinks "and why am I supposed to be impressed?" He didn't do anything special. Not hard to replace and not someone you shouldn't be actively looking to upgrade from.

jhns
04-23-2010, 10:40 AM
So now you aren't even going to try a rebuttal?


Nope. You didn't paraphrase anything they have said. You are just like the other fans that got their feelings hurt. No ability to be rationale.

You want my rebuttal? Look up my posting history. About half of it covers this subject.

Flex Gunmetal
04-23-2010, 10:42 AM
Why does anyone give jhns the time of day anymore? He's like dragster and rasta in sheeps clothing.

Drek
04-23-2010, 10:46 AM
Why does anyone give jhns the time of day anymore? He's like dragster and rasta in sheeps clothing.

Highlighting a weak argument, pointing out how its factually wrong for everyone to see, and watching the OP gradually shrink back in their willingness to debate is a good way to pass the time.

boppool
04-23-2010, 10:47 AM
That is because he has hated on McDaniels since the Cutler move. He actually says the exact same thing as me, McDaniels doesn't know how to deal with players. Every team has divas and questionable personalities. You have to be able to work with these guys and keep them somewhat under control. He now says the same thing with Marshall and laughed the second it came out that our new receiver reminds McDaniels of Marshall.

I think Steve Young is a smart guy. Gruden said every pick in the first round was great as they were made.

He had a chance to meet and coach up all 4 QB prospects before the draft (Bradford, Tebow, Clausen and McCoy). He must've been impressed with Tebow and saw more than his issues with throwing motions, etc.

He doesn't have to defend McD or Broncos, when even Tommy wasn't. But obviously, he loved the pick as a former coach (especially as an offensive minded one).

jhns
04-23-2010, 11:38 AM
Highlighting a weak argument, pointing out how its factually wrong for everyone to see, and watching the OP gradually shrink back in their willingness to debate is a good way to pass the time.

LOL

"Factually"

Good one.

jhns
04-23-2010, 11:42 AM
Why does anyone give jhns the time of day anymore? He's like dragster and rasta in sheeps clothing.

What is the "in sheeps clothing" part about? I have my opinions and I give them. Sometimes they don't support the coach, sometimes they do. At least I live in reality and don't have to make up a bunch of nonsense in order to support what I say. Wrong or not, I don't purposely twist the facts to get show my point.

DHallblows
04-23-2010, 11:57 AM
Yeah, other than the Broncos head coach, Tebow, and a few stragglers on here, everyone else in the world agrees it was a horrible pick.

...What? hahahaha

Flex Gunmetal
04-23-2010, 11:57 AM
What is the "in sheeps clothing" part about? I have my opinions and I give them. Sometimes they don't support the coach, sometimes they do. At least I live in reality and don't have to make up a bunch of nonsense in order to support what I say. Wrong or not, I don't purposely twist the facts to get show my point.

I'm saying that you are the same as those two ****ty posters, yet you come across as slightly less retarded and abrasive.

broncocalijohn
04-23-2010, 11:59 AM
What is the "in sheeps clothing" part about? I have my opinions and I give them. Sometimes they don't support the coach, sometimes they do. At least I live in reality and don't have to make up a bunch of nonsense in order to support what I say. Wrong or not, I don't purposely twist the facts to get show my point.

i have to agree. go_broncos is in sheep's clothing of some of those posters but JHNS stands out on his own. It isnt a ringing endorsement but he is an original good or bad.

listopencil
04-23-2010, 12:02 PM
Nope. You didn't paraphrase anything they have said. You are just like the other fans that got their feelings hurt. No ability to be rationale.

You want my rebuttal? Look up my posting history. About half of it covers this subject.

Dude. Seriously. You're full of ****. He laid it out exactly as it happened and you've got nothing that says otherwise. If half of your posting history covers this topic...wow. I don't know what to tell you, buddy. Pull your head out of your ass.

jhns
04-23-2010, 12:04 PM
I'm saying that you are the same as those two ****ty posters, yet you come across as slightly less retarded and abrasive.

Thank you for the kind words.

jhns
04-23-2010, 12:05 PM
Dude. Seriously. You're full of ****. He laid it out exactly as it happened and you've got nothing that says otherwise. If half of your posting history covers this topic...wow. I don't know what to tell you, buddy. Pull your head out of your ass.

LOL

Ouch.

DarkHorse30
04-23-2010, 10:56 PM
young has no future in NFL punditry....he's boring and dull. Gruden, OTOH is interesting as hell because you never know what's going to fly out of his yapper. It looked like he wanted to backhand Young everytime he kept talking about "the spread offense"

Connecticut Bronco Fan
04-24-2010, 12:16 AM
He said Helmets, not Coaches. This was after they showed some old old draft footage with all the oldschool helmet logos.