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Popps
04-23-2010, 02:17 AM
So, right now... the focus is going to be on who we didn't take. It always is. On draft day, 90% of the people are upset every year. That's just how it goes.
We'll insist we missed the next Ed Reed, and took reaches, or should have drafted for need, etc. I can't imagine a scenario where everyone was thrilled with the draft. The last draft that I remember everyone really liking turned out to be an utter disaster.

Now, I'm as guilty as anyone. I've watched Shanahan butcher up draft day for the last decade and have bitched as loud as anyone, even as I remained one of the biggest Shanny apologists around here, I hated our draft style.. picks, etc.

While I was fairly pleased last year on day one, this year... I'm having trouble with it.

My trouble is... I don't like our day, but I do like these players! This absolutely goes against the plan I had for us, but I can't help but be excited about these two prospects.

So, now it depends what we do tomorrow... and how we address our needs outside of the draft.

I'm the first one to say... I think we should have gone another direction today. I think we passed on an awful lot of talent to pick the two guys we did. I think today's moves were risky. Then again, any draft pick is risky, in reality. But, I do think if these picks don't pan out, McDaniels certainly deserves to face criticism for some of the players we passed on.

But, the flipside is... the two biggest things we've complained about here lately is the loss of a productive WR and the need for a QB that can make some plays on his own. So, these are two candidates to do so. Whether you believe they WILL or not is purely speculation. But, these were two key need areas.

The key here is for us to go and do the right thing tomorrow and get some help for the O-line. This is assuming we don't have a plan in place to trade for or sign someone, already. Again, the draft isn't the only way we improve our team.

We've also got a need at ILB I'm curious as to how we'll fill.


So, all in all... I don't like our strategy. But, I rarely do. Last year I did, but that was an exception. But, these are intriguing players that will make a major difference to this team if they pan out.

We didn't have these two exciting players yesterday. We do today. That's a good thing. We passed on some people I think were more appropriate to take. That (to me) is a bad thing.

But, this puzzle will pull pieces from a lot more places that just this draft. Let's see how it pans out. If nothing else, these are exciting picks. We're going to be glued to these guys to see how they pan out.

There's just never a dull moment as a Broncos fan, anymore... for better or worse.

Taco John
04-23-2010, 02:29 AM
I like the prospects. There's nothing wrong with their potential. But I like Tebow as a prospect the same way I liked Maurice Clarett as a prospect (before he went goose on us). Which is to say, I like them at the end of the third round where the value is good, and the risk curbed.

I am very skeptical that Tebow can be a qb at this level. I don't question his heart. I don't question his desire. I don't question his toughness. But we've seen it a hundred times where a quarerback with all the talent in the world but an excruciatingly slow release gets pummelled - and worse become turnover machines. I hate, hate, HATE taking a project with this much downside in the first round.

Also, I'd like to disagree about the two biggest things that people have complained about here being loss of production at the WR position and QB that can make plays on his own. The biggest thing that people have complained about here is the interior offensive line and the Dline (namely the NT). Yes, people have complained about the QB position, but the standard comeback has been that if we shore up the line, play will improve - and that Elway himself couldn't win behind this line.

I remain unconvinced at this point that anybody we get in any of these lower rounds will be able to make the impact on our team that a Dan Williams or an Iupati would have made on this season. I'd be happy if I was wrong, but right now I can't see that we've done anything to improve this team from last year to this.

Popps
04-23-2010, 02:37 AM
I remain unconvinced at this point that anybody we get in any of these lower rounds will be able to make the impact on our team that a Dan Williams or an Iupati would have made on this season. I'd be happy if I was wrong, but right now I can't see that we've done anything to improve this team from last year to this.

Well, again... I'm with you. Those are guys I would have rather had.

But, as I said... the flipside is, our entire team isn't going to come from this draft.

Is it possible that these to players represent the best value per dollar spent and the most logical options for us, in the big picture? Maybe. Maybe not.

Once again, we'll need time to know.

I think my point is... if this team comes together properly, I don't really care in what round a guy was picked. If Thomas goes on to be a star receiver for us, I'm not going to sweat missing a great guard. We'll just have to get the great guard somewhere else.... just like if we didn't take Thomas, we'd have to find a primary receiver somewhere else.

Just because the team didn't draft how I wanted them to doesn't make the draft bad. As I said, it's a puzzle... and you grab pieces that you think make the most sense from multiple areas.

It's a net/net thing.

But, sure... I wish we would have taken two OL. That doesn't mean this still might not be a very successful draft. Lots of guys still to pick, too.

chrisp
04-23-2010, 02:39 AM
Also, I'd like to disagree about the two biggest things that people have complained about here being loss of production at the WR position and QB that can make plays on his own. The biggest thing that people have complained about here is the interior offensive line and the Dline (namely the NT). Yes, people have complained about the QB position, but the standard comeback has been that if we shore up the line, play will improve - and that Elway himself couldn't win behind this line.

I remain unconvinced at this point that anybody we get in any of these lower rounds will be able to make the impact on our team that a Dan Williams or an Iupati would have made on this season. I'd be happy if I was wrong, but right now I can't see that we've done anything to improve this team from last year to this.

I agree that the d-line has been a major area of complaint, not just this year but the last - however, It does seem that we've pretty comprehensively addressed that in free agency and that perhaps the staff has faith in our young guys to develop while the older vets hold the fort for a year or two, and I think most people on this board seem to have accepted that d-line is no longer a major need going into the draft

It does suck that both picks are prospects rather than immediate difference-makers though. If tebow even plays this year (outside of preseason) then I'll be shocked. Thomas could be a contributor - and will probably be expected to be in fact, but he's raw, and Bryant will probably put up better numbe for dallas this year which will make everybody on this board soooooooooo happy

However, as long as we get some o-linemen and some inside linebackers in the next few picks I won't be looking for the nearest bridge. my verdict on josh's draft this year is the same as last years and the same as for the season as a whole: wait and see. Waaay too early to panic...

Popps
04-23-2010, 09:05 AM
It does suck that both picks are prospects rather than immediate difference-makers though.

That's why I said before the draft, and why I thought there was no way we took TT unless he fell way out of the first.

But, I think we can't discount the possibility that maybe McDaniels sees him as no more or less of a project than any QB coming out of school.

As I said in another thread... McD has to know his NFl well-being is tied to this pick. I can't imagine he made the pick lightly.

Old Dude
04-23-2010, 09:13 AM
Two things are becoming clear to me.

1. McD really does look at most players as projects rather than as starters to fix a problem area. If they can start, great, but he will usually take the less polished guy with more upside. See: Ayers. See: Thomas. See: Tebow.

2. He has very little interest in trying to "coach up" character. You either have it or you don't. That's actually hard to argue with.

Paladin
04-23-2010, 09:27 AM
It is hard to coach up passion for the game. And I think McD looks for that as well.

Popps, I think you are dancing around the edges of your disappointment: he does not draft the way you think he ought to draft, and secondly he sees the issues different than you or I do. Maybe he sees Haggan as a good replacement for Davis. Maybe he sees Olsen or McChesney as C prospects. Maybe he thinks a later trade can be made to fix something else.

None of us knows the whole story like McD or the FO does. Most of the speculations around here are just that: speculations. Add to that the tendency of the current FO and McD to be more controlling of the news and reportrers, and imaginatinons run rampant..

Tombstone RJ
04-23-2010, 09:36 AM
I agree with TJ and Popps in that I'm not thrilled with the Tebow pick simply because he is a project and none of us have the patience for a project. Even I don't have that kind of patience. That being said Tebow is a thrilling player and a fantastic leader.

As for D. Thomas, I was pleasantly suprised. I loved the fact that McX traded down and still got the second best WR in the draft (and arguably the best WR in the draft).

As for today and tomorrow, I truly think (but I've been so wrong so far) that McD will go with interior offensive line, defensive line and LBer. Not sure who the Broncos will bring in, but it's going to be core building block guys. JMHO.

Broncoman13
04-23-2010, 09:45 AM
I like the prospects. There's nothing wrong with their potential. But I like Tebow as a prospect the same way I liked Maurice Clarett as a prospect (before he went goose on us). Which is to say, I like them at the end of the third round where the value is good, and the risk curbed.

Can't argue that there is a lot less risk in the 3rd round, but the simple truth is that Tim Tebow wouldn't have lasted into the 2nd round. The Bills were looking to move up and the Broncos had to get to 25 to select him. I think Drek brought up a very good point regarding his slot/selection. You draft a QB that you know will need a year or two longer to develop and it makes sense to take him at the bottom of round 1 rather than the top of round 2. You can sign him to a 5 or 6 year contract whereas the 2nd round you're looking at 3 or 4 years. And make no mistake that Tim Tebow will be used in different ways while the staff works on his QB skills.

I am very skeptical that Tebow can be a qb at this level. I don't question his heart. I don't question his desire. I don't question his toughness. But we've seen it a hundred times where a quarerback with all the talent in the world but an excruciatingly slow release gets pummelled - and worse become turnover machines. I hate, hate, HATE taking a project with this much downside in the first round.

QBs with slow releases and slow feet will struggle. Tim Tebow is an athlete playing the QB position. His throwing motion isn't so far off from guys like Phillip Rivers or Vince Young. Both have been successful in the NFL. Does Tebow have a ways to go... yes. But in a couple months he has made major strides to correct his weaknesses. A COUPLE MONTHS. Put him with a true QB guru and this guy is going to get better very quickly. He is far from a plug and play guy... but his natural ability to lead, rally the troops, and really lay it on the line for the team will be his legacy, not how many 300 yard passing games or 30 TD seasons he has.

Also, I'd like to disagree about the two biggest things that people have complained about here being loss of production at the WR position and QB that can make plays on his own. The biggest thing that people have complained about here is the interior offensive line and the Dline (namely the NT). Yes, people have complained about the QB position, but the standard comeback has been that if we shore up the line, play will improve - and that Elway himself couldn't win behind this line.

I don't think NT is a weakness right now. Add to the fact that we still have 6 rounds left in this draft and it is VERY deep for middle anchors. There was a tidbit that was broke on how X and McD disagree on drafting DL. X doesn't like to draft DL and McD does, sounds like a philosophical difference of opinion. Coming from NE and being tutored by BB, you have to believe that McD would love to draft DL all day long. I think he'll get his way in the middle rounds and honestly wouldn't be surprised if he drafted Mt. Cody. One thing is certain, if he does draft Cody it will be with more insight to his ability and work ethic than most coaches b/c of his ties to Saban.

I'll also say that last year even when Orton was playing well I openly questioned whether he could lead this team through the playoffs. I loved his approach and mentality but never thought he could physically get the job done. Tim Tebow brings the same intangibles but is a huge improvement athletically and has a ton of untapped potential. McD is hedging his bets that he can develop Tebow into a winner. They showed Tom Brady in the combine. The guy looked horrible. Not very strong, arm strength was slightly above average. Not real accurate. Not real fast. But he had a great attitude and was willing to put in as much work as necessary... that is what we'll get from Tebow.

I remain unconvinced at this point that anybody we get in any of these lower rounds will be able to make the impact on our team that a Dan Williams or an Iupati would have made on this season. I'd be happy if I was wrong, but right now I can't see that we've done anything to improve this team from last year to this.

I think you can get a lot of guys in the 2nd day of the draft that will change your mind. There are a ton of OL guys still available. Jerry, Asomoah, Williams, Walton, Tennant, Larsen, Olsen, Ducasse, Saffold, and then probably a few more that we've not even talked about at this point. On the DL you have guys like Mt. Cody, Linval Joseph, and Cam Thomas still available. The smallest of those three is 6' 4 1/2" and 328 lbs... bigger than Dan Williams and just as productive the past three years.

I will agree with you that this team didn't do anything thus far that will really improve our performance THIS year... not in the draft that is. But I don't think you're giving enough credit to Jamaal Williams, or any of the other FA acquisitions.

From this point on in the draft, I think we'll address OG, DT, C, ILB, and WR again.

We could very well end up with John Jerry, Linval Joseph, Matt Tennant, Brandon Spikes, and Jacoby Ford STILL. I won't hold my breath that any of the guys we "like" will be drafted, but I don't pretend to know more about any of these players than the Denver Broncos front office.

This much you can surely agree on, the Broncos made a splash in day one of the 2010 draft. They drafted a potential stud at WR (Calvin Johnson like physical abilities) and a QB that will become a fan favorite and bring a completely new fan base to Denver. For Pat Bowlen's money, Tim Tebow was probably the best pick McD could have made in this entire draft. The return he will get on that investment is small compared to the contract Tebow will sign.

bloodsunday
04-23-2010, 09:46 AM
I am having trouble with this for two reasons:
1) Why move up to get take Thomas? He was probably going to be there 2 picks later with Dez Bryant still on the board. Most people don't him as the #1 or #2 WR, so he was probably going to remain for another 2 picks. Strange.

2) It goes against exactly what I complained about with Mike Shanahan and exactly what I posted that I thought McDaniels would do -- building the core of the team through the draft. Both of these picks fit the "project" category, which means we cannot count on them to do much next year. (They still might, but we shouldn't expect it). And if you saw the numbers I posted, the draft has the highest "bust rate" for players that fit into the offensive skill position category. It so happens that some our biggest needs (LB and OL) have the lowest bust rate and constitute building the core of a team.

Draft picks are always hit and miss (no matter how much of a sure thing you have them rate as on day 1). I don't have a problem with these two players, I have a problem with how they went about acquiring them and ignoring more glaring holes on the team. McDaniels has some work to do on days 2 and 3 to shore up the OL and bring the average age of the defense below the "Favre-line". I also have a problem with having 4 QBs on the roster. Makes no sense. Does this mean Tom Brandstater is gone? Or are they shopping Orton?

Broncoman13
04-23-2010, 09:49 AM
Two things are becoming clear to me.

1. McD really does look at most players as projects rather than as starters to fix a problem area. If they can start, great, but he will usually take the less polished guy with more upside. See: Ayers. See: Thomas. See: Tebow.

2. He has very little interest in trying to "coach up" character. You either have it or you don't. That's actually hard to argue with.

Agree totally.

The third thing here is leadership which ties into your 2nd point. You can have great character but not necessarily be a leader... Tim Tebow is both. His enthusiasm is infectious and he will put it all on the line for the team. Truly, I love the pick.

Rohirrim
04-23-2010, 09:52 AM
I think the Tebow pick is an even bigger gamble than we think, because it doesn't just represent the drafting of a player, but of an entire system. I think that the reason Josh went so hard, and spent so much, to get Tebow is because he is the final piece in an entire offense he wants to create. The whole thing will hinge on whether or not Tebow can carry it to success. All the moves he has made prior to this have led to this final piece being added. I wouldn't be surprised if, years from now, Josh admits he started to plan to get Tebow two years ago (for the Pats). It's a big gamble and Josh has gone all in.

Hotrod
04-23-2010, 09:53 AM
FML

Thats really all I have to say about it.

Pseudofool
04-23-2010, 09:54 AM
I'm as cynical as anyone. But something telling for me happened at the McD presser. Someone asked him "how close to ideal was the first day for you?" McD answered with smirked lips, "Pretty close. 100 percent? 95 percent?"

One thing I like about McD is his passion, his character demands, and his articulateness. The guy has a plan and he's executing it. Whether you agree with the plan is the real issue.

On Tebow being drafted too high; that's just not an issue when we know that Buffalo was looking to trade into the first round (implication via Shefter). Demand drove up the price, go figure. And demand is usually a good sign that lots of people think an asset is valuable.

oubronco
04-23-2010, 09:55 AM
I'm just pissed we gave up a 2nd, 3rd, and a 4th to move up and get him when we have alot of needs to fill but we'll see what the mad genius has up his sleeves

Broncoman13
04-23-2010, 09:55 AM
I am having trouble with this for two reasons:
1) Why move up to get take Thomas? He was probably going to be there 2 picks later with Dez Bryant still on the board. Most people don't him as the #1 or #2 WR, so he was probably going to remain for another 2 picks. Strange.

2) It goes against exactly what I complained about with Mike Shanahan and exactly what I posted that I thought McDaniels would do -- building the core of the team through the draft. Both of these picks fit the "project" category, which means we cannot count on them to do much next year. (They still might, but we shouldn't expect it). And if you saw the numbers I posted, the draft has the highest "bust rate" for players that fit into the offensive skill position category. It so happens that some our biggest needs (LB and OL) have the lowest bust rate and constitute building the core of a team.

Draft picks are always hit and miss (no matter how much of a sure thing you have them rate as on day 1). I don't have a problem with these two players, I have a problem with how they went about acquiring them and ignoring more glaring holes on the team. McDaniels has some work to do on days 2 and 3 to shore up the OL and bring the average age of the defense below the "Favre-line". I also have a problem with having 4 QBs on the roster. Makes no sense. Does this mean Tom Brandstater is gone? Or are they shopping Orton?

The bust rate at any position is high. I wasn't thrilled with the Thomas pick myself, but I think after both Iupati and Pouncey went off the board as well as Weatherspoon and McClain, McD thought he better move up and get the guy he was comfortable with.

Here is the thing with Bey Bey Thomas. Had he not broke his foot, gone to the combine and run the 4.38 he was running during training (his agents actually video taped the running and sent DVDs out to all 32 teams) and proceeded to have a great combine, you're talking about a top 10 pick. Again, this is the Broncos view on the Draft... not what will you do within the first year, but where will you be by year two. I think they view both Tebow and Thomas as starters by year two and I have to believe that with as quickly as Tebow has come along in a few short months that he could very well be ready by 2011... if there is even football.

Paladin
04-23-2010, 09:58 AM
Would you have it any other way? What's not to like about moving foursquare on your convictions? Even if thoise convictins are contrary to those of a previous regime?

The man has balls of steel.

BroncoInferno
04-23-2010, 09:59 AM
The best thing about the Thomas pick is that he can play the X receiver spot because of his downfield ability, thus allowing us to move Royal to the Welker spot where I think he'll be more effective. I thought it was a mistake how he was used last season. Even though he has 4.3 speed, he's not really a downfield receiver. Hopefully, he will return to the quality player he was as a rookie now that he will be playing a spot more suited to his skills.

Broncoman13
04-23-2010, 09:59 AM
I'm just pissed we gave up a 2nd, 3rd, and a 4th to move up and get him when we have alot of needs to fill but we'll see what the mad genius has up his sleeves

We gave up a 2nd and a 3rd. The 4th was a swap of picks according to NFL.com. From 114 to 119 I believe.

The value chart supports what we gave up in the trade. Pick 25 worth 740 points, 43, 70 and the difference in 4ths worth about 720 points. It's not like we got fleeced or something. We paid fair value to move back up in the first to draft a player that not only has a very high ceiling, but the ability to put butts in the seats and sell jerseys like few other players in the entire league. As far a rookie jersey sales go, I'd be willing to be that Tebow will be top 3.

go_broncos
04-23-2010, 10:01 AM
Loved the first pick and the way we traded down from 11.
I felt that our front office shows zero patience.
They overvalue a player and gives up lot of picks to get him.
Didn't like Tebow pick.still can't believe we gave up that many picks for
a player that has below average QB skills.
You should never take a Gator QB in first round.
Hopefully, Mcd and front office doesn't screw up today.

oubronco
04-23-2010, 10:01 AM
We gave up a 2nd and a 3rd. The 4th was a swap of picks according to NFL.com. From 114 to 119 I believe.

The value chart supports what we gave up in the trade. Pick 25 worth 740 points, 43, 70 and the difference in 4ths worth about 720 points. It's not like we got fleeced or something. We paid fair value to move back up in the first to draft a player that not only has a very high ceiling, but the ability to put butts in the seats and sell jerseys like few other players in the entire league. As far a rookie jersey sales go, I'd be willing to be that Tebow will be top 3.

But don't you think the Lines need more attention than a QB project

bloodsunday
04-23-2010, 10:01 AM
The bust rate at any position is high. I wasn't thrilled with the Thomas pick myself, but I think after both Iupati and Pouncey went off the board as well as Weatherspoon and McClain, McD thought he better move up and get the guy he was comfortable with.
It's not that I don't like the players. It's that for an organization that has so many needs, we really need to work on the core of this team. By core I am referring mostly to players that play at or near the line of scrimmage (DL, OL, and LB). We've done a great job drafting young OTs (thank you Shanny) and rebuilding our DL through FA. But our DL is old and our OL is missing some key cogs.

And like I said, I firmly believe Thomas would have been there 2 picks later and probably 6 picks later.

As far as bust rates go, review this: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?page=NextLevel7

If you were gonna damn the rest of the league, then why not just take Pouncey at #13? Is drafting Tebow at #25 any less controversial than that move would have been?

I think I am being a little bit nit-picky. I wouldn't count myself as disappointed or upset. In particular I think moving up 2 picks to get Thomas cost us a valuable mid round pick where we could get a G or C.

oubronco
04-23-2010, 10:03 AM
pouncey at #13 would've made too much sense

HorseHead
04-23-2010, 10:03 AM
How can you not love a guy with the nickname.."Bey Bey"..it reminds me of Wendy's best friend on South Park...go ahead and say it..."Bey Bey"...see?

Taco John
04-23-2010, 10:03 AM
I think the worst part is Woody Paige agrees with it all. That could signal serious trouble.

TonyR
04-23-2010, 10:05 AM
1. McD really does look at most players as projects rather than as starters to fix a problem area. If they can start, great, but he will usually take the less polished guy with more upside. See: Ayers. See: Thomas. See: Tebow.


Good point, and add A. Smith and R. Quinn to the list from last year's draft, among others.

TonyR
04-23-2010, 10:07 AM
1) Why move up to get take Thomas? He was probably going to be there 2 picks later with Dez Bryant still on the board. Most people don't him as the #1 or #2 WR, so he was probably going to remain for another 2 picks. Strange.

I was bothered by this as well but there are rumors that others were looking to move ahead of us for Thomas, particularly the Ravens.

baja
04-23-2010, 10:09 AM
The best thing about the Thomas pick is that he can play the X receiver spot because of his downfield ability, thus allowing us to move Royal to the Welker spot where I think he'll be more effective. I thought it was a mistake how he was used last season. Even though he has 4.3 speed, he's not really a downfield receiver. Hopefully, he will return to the quality player he was as a rookie now that he will be playing a spot more suited to his skills.

What is your take on day one inferno, i'd like to know.

TheDave
04-23-2010, 10:11 AM
Loved how it started... I was fine with the move back up for DT.

The tebow thing is just crazy to me. I really want to like the kid, but i can't see his style of play ever working in the NFL. I don't see the jump pass working on Sundays... I just don't. That and a 2, 3, & 4 throws a lot of bodies at a bunch of positions.

Like I said, I want to like it... but it just feels off.

baja
04-23-2010, 10:11 AM
Well I can see for the first time in ten years I am going to have use the ignore option - hot & heavy

some of you guys are worse old Italian women

Pseudofool
04-23-2010, 10:12 AM
I am having trouble with this for two reasons:
1) Why move up to get take Thomas? He was probably going to be there 2 picks later with Dez Bryant still on the board. Most people don't him as the #1 or #2 WR, so he was probably going to remain for another 2 picks. Strange.


Evidently there was chatter that Cowboys were trying to move up into the Patriots spot. So the Broncos made the jump to get the player they wanted.

Pony Boy
04-23-2010, 10:17 AM
Denver needs a little love right now with all the negative press about Cutler and Marshall and Shefler. Tebow is the most marketable player in this draft class and the national press will be camped out in Denver this fall. There will probably be a daily Tebow watch on ESPN, and I'm not saying that a good reason to draft him but it can't hurt right now.

Pseudofool
04-23-2010, 10:17 AM
I don't see the jump pass working on Sundays... I just don't. So no jump pass.

Smart, dedicated people tend to learn quickly and thoroughly; let's see how this plays out. If Tebow's as coachable as we're led to believe, we might not have any inkling of what he'll look like as a finished product, nor how quickly he might get there.

TheDave
04-23-2010, 10:24 AM
So no jump pass.

Smart, dedicated people tend to learn quickly and thoroughly; let's see how this plays out. If Tebow's as coachable as we're led to believe, we might not have any inkling of what he'll look like as a finished product, nor how quickly he might get there.

That's another worry with him... this could be a couple of years.

McKidd needs to win now. So at the very least, he better find 5 plays a game and get this kidd involved.

bloodsunday
04-23-2010, 10:25 AM
I was bothered by this as well but there are rumors that others were looking to move ahead of us for Thomas, particularly the Ravens.

Then take Dez Bryant or Arrelious Benn. It just seems to me that we had to have a B-Marsh clone to please the fans or something. (Although I don't think people are giving enough credit to the fact that Thomas is faster than Brandon, at least as reported by his 40 time).

I look at things in terms of probabilities. Every draft picks has a risk of failure, doesn't matter where he played, how he played, who he played, or who evaluated him. So, if you get yourself in a position where you have lots of early picks in a deep draft and your team has a lot of needs, why not just sit back and let the draft come to you? It is particularly scary how old this team is on defense. I hate to say it, but this is the same crazy kind of draft strategy used by Shanahan and not the type of strategy laid out by the more successful teams of the past 10 years (NE and Pittsburgh). That's what worries me.

Obviously if Thomas and Tebow become superstars, then this draft will look like a raging success. I am not evaluating the players more than I am the approach to how you run a draft. If we don't have a great next couple of days then we are going to have some issues with the depth of this team.

Pseudofool
04-23-2010, 10:28 AM
That's another worry with him... this could be a couple of years. Maybe. But like I said, smart, dedicated people tend to learn quickly. Josh seems like a great teacher. I think we see him on the field this year, with the plan for him to start sooner rather than later.

One wonders if Josh wants to turn Denver into a QB factory, using some of these guys as trading chits down the road.

broncosteven
04-23-2010, 10:36 AM
...
...

I'm the first one to say... I think we should have gone another direction today. I think we passed on an awful lot of talent to pick the two guys we did. I think today's moves were risky. Then again, any draft pick is risky, in reality. But, I do think if these picks don't pan out, McDaniels certainly deserves to face criticism for some of the players we passed on.

But, the flipside is... the two biggest things we've complained about here lately is the loss of a productive WR and the need for a QB that can make some plays on his own. So, these are two candidates to do so. Whether you believe they WILL or not is purely speculation. But, these were two key need areas.

The key here is for us to go and do the right thing tomorrow and get some help for the O-line. This is assuming we don't have a plan in place to trade for or sign someone, already. Again, the draft isn't the only way we improve our team.

We've also got a need at ILB I'm curious as to how we'll fill.


So, all in all... I don't like our strategy. But, I rarely do. Last year I did, but that was an exception. But, these are intriguing players that will make a major difference to this team if they pan out.

We didn't have these two exciting players yesterday. We do today. That's a good thing. We passed on some people I think were more appropriate to take. That (to me) is a bad thing.

But, this puzzle will pull pieces from a lot more places that just this draft. Let's see how it pans out. If nothing else, these are exciting picks. We're going to be glued to these guys to see how they pan out.

There's just never a dull moment as a Broncos fan, anymore... for better or worse.

I thought the Mane defenders of mCd (get it main defenders!) down played the need for a stud WR after BM was traded. I know the guy was 1 incident away from a long suspension but to trade him away then turn around and draft a guy in the 1st round to replace him reeked of desperation.

Posters here were all trying to spin it that WR's don't win SB's D and controlling the clock do. Now that we take a guy who might have some potential 2-3 years down the line to be a BM type of player he was a need.

After sleeping on it I am wondering if mCd breaks out some sort of Wing formation with Quinn, Knowgain, and Tebow as the backs and Graham on end giving a straight pass option with Quinn, A run option with Knowgain, and a pass/run option on the outside with Tebow. Something crazy to get him on the field and gague the speed of the NFL and allow him to do what he does best, run the ball and throw on the run.

I really doubt at this point Tebow will start out as a traditional pocket passer. He is nothing like TB or Cassell are, Tebow actually reminds me more of a Vince Young guy (without the killer arm) who will take a look then pull the ball down and run.

I am guessing I will be wrong, unlike Popps I am human and therefore I make mistakes but it seems that with all the flurry of visits that mCd fell in love with the guy and figured he could engineer some great scheme to get him some plays this year. I just don't see Tebow excelling at drop back passer for a good 2-3 years.

And as far as getting a C, LG and front 7 Dline later, I am ok with that as long as the guys they get for those positions are guys who were high on their board and they are not just settling to fill out the roster.

I think the FA signings lulled mCd into thinking he could take a risk with the draft because he has his new DL. I really would like to see a young NT drafted just to work into the rotation and take over for JWill should he go down or retire in a year.

Get a starting C and starting LG and I will start memorizing the New Testament to know what our new QB is saying with his eye-black.

broncobum6162
04-23-2010, 10:43 AM
I think in 2 years we will all be happy we picked up Tebow. I scratched my head too on trading up to get Thomas as he would have been there later. I've been homer of Tebow's for 2 years now and I'm ecstatic we've picked him up. I also think this thread is pretty awesome and I for one would like to commend you Popps for a great summary of round 1.

broncosteven
04-23-2010, 10:49 AM
I think in 2 years we will all be happy we picked up Tebow. I scratched my head too on trading up to get Thomas as he would have been there later. I've been homer of Tebow's for 2 years now and I'm ecstatic we've picked him up. I also think this thread is pretty awesome and I for one would like to commend you Popps for a great summary of round 1.

If your a homer of Tebow tell us why, not just that he will be good in 2 years. Why are you a homer of the dude, why will he be so good in 2 years?

SportinOne
04-23-2010, 10:59 AM
So, right now... the focus is going to be on who we didn't take. It always is. On draft day, 90% of the people are upset every year. That's just how it goes.

We'll insist we missed the next Ed Reed, and took reaches, or should have drafted for need, etc. I can't imagine a scenario where everyone was thrilled with the draft. The last draft that I remember everyone really liking turned out to be an utter disaster.

Popps Super Teamster Translator 2000: I'd like to take the focus off of the fact that McDaniels drafted a project WR and Tim ****ing Tebow in round 1. I'm going to pretend that a coach cannot please the fans by drafting smartly and when he does appease us it is usually a bad sign. This is a great excuse for him to have drafted Tim ****ing Tebow.

Now, I'm as guilty as anyone. I've watched Shanahan butcher up draft day for the last decade and have b****ed as loud as anyone, even as I remained one of the biggest Shanny apologists around here, I hated our draft style.. picks, etc.


Popps Super Teamster Translator 2000: I'm going to tie this in with Shanahan, who has nothing to do with the decisions McDaniels made yesterday, in an effort to again take the focus off of my man's poor choices. I used to complain about things, apparently, while still remaining a fan. Yet I now harp on others who try and do the same. See: "Team First," fellas.

While I was fairly pleased last year on day one, this year... I'm having trouble with it.

My trouble is... I don't like our day, but I do like these players! This absolutely goes against the plan I had for us, but I can't help but be excited about these two prospects.

Popps Super Teamster Translator 2000: I do admit that I'm starting to question Josh's competence. Last year, although it was also a horrible day 1, i still had the good "team" vibes going and was willing to follow him blindly. 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick? Brilliant move. It's what Walsh would have done. If you see a guy you want, you go get him.

I think. I don't know anymore. I'm starting to... *looks around* *lowers voice* ...question things. I just don't think that I can support the moves we made. I...

*His facial expression freezes and for nearly 4 seconds he appears lifeless. Then, he comes back to...*

I...ugh...I LOVE these players. Maybe I would have done things differently but I sure do love these players, don't you?

*translator broken*

So, now it depends what we do tomorrow... and how we address our needs outside of the draft.

Popps Super Teamster Translator 3000: We are going to have to draft incredibly well the rest of the way to make up for the 1st round.

I'm the first one to say... I think we should have gone another direction today. I think we passed on an awful lot of talent to pick the two guys we did. I think today's moves were risky. Then again, any draft pick is risky, in reality. But, I do think if these picks don't pan out, McDaniels certainly deserves to face criticism for some of the players we passed on.

Popps Super Teamster Translator 3000: I will reiterate my acknowledgment that McDaniels screwed up, only to hedge that statement by saying that since drafts are risky it's okay to screw up. And now, here is a blatantly obvious sentence about accountability.


and that's all the translator can stomach... my noble lie-derived super hero, you sure do ramble, popps. I think the important points were covered.

broncosteven
04-23-2010, 11:02 AM
Popps Super Teamster Translator 2000: I'd like to take the focus off of the fact that McDaniels drafted a project WR and Tim ****ing Tebow in round 1. I'm going to pretend that a coach cannot please the fans by drafting smartly and when he does appease us it is usually a bad sign. This is a great excuse for him to have drafted Tim ****ing Tebow.



Popps Super Teamster Translator 2000: I'm going to tie this in with Shanahan, who has nothing to do with the decisions McDaniels made yesterday, in an effort to again take the focus off of my man's poor choices. I used to complain about things, apparently, while still remaining a fan. Yet I now harp on others who try and do the same. See: "Team First," fellas.



Popps Super Teamster Translator 2000: I do admit that I'm starting to question Josh's competence. Last year, although it was also a horrible day 1, i still had the good "team" vibes going and was willing to follow him blindly. 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick? Brilliant move. It's what Walsh would have done. If you see a guy you want, you go get him.

I think. I don't know anymore. I'm starting to... *looks around* *lowers voice* ...question things. I just don't think that I can support the moves we made. I...

*His facial expression freezes and for nearly 4 seconds he appears lifeless. Then, he comes back to...*

I...ugh...I LOVE these players. Maybe I would have done things differently but I sure do love these players, don't you?

*translator broken*



Popps Super Teamster Translator 3000: We are going to have to draft incredibly well the rest of the way to make up for the 1st round.



Popps Super Teamster Translator 3000: I will reiterate my acknowledgment that McDaniels screwed up, only to hedge that statement by saying that since drafts are risky it's okay to screw up. And now, here is a blatantly obvious sentence about accountability.


and that's all the translator can stomach... my noble lie-derived super hero, you sure do ramble, popps. I think the important points were covered.

REP!

THis is Classic Popps Spin!

REP!

TonyR
04-23-2010, 11:20 AM
Then take Dez Bryant or Arrelious Benn.

I tend to agree with you, particularly on Bryant, but clearly Thomas is the guy they wanted.

Popps
04-23-2010, 11:24 AM
REP!

THis is Classic Popps Spin!

REP!

Look, at least McChamp is just plain stupid. He's incapable of following any pattern of reason that isn't black and white. Arguing with him would be like being angry at my dog for not understanding physics.

You, however... are smart enough to look at the bigger picture. You just choose not to because you're bitter. (Blueflame syndrome.) That, to me is more frustrating.



Again, the synopsis for me is that I would have done this much differently, but I do like these players. I'm going to look at how al of these pieces fit together before I assume we had a ****ty (or great) draft. As I said, you acquire your building blocks in a number of different ways. This draft was just one of them.

I basically said I don't like our approach. How can that be "spin?" Is it spin because I'm also not going to panic over it?


Sorry, man. I'm just not going to get my panties knot-wadded over every long-snapper we release/sign.

It's a draft. We picked players. Our prior coach absolutely BUTCHERED drafts for the last decade.

Maybe we can give the new coach more than one season to put his team together before we just assume he's ****ed it all up?

Crazy, I know... the notion of being reasonable and using evidence to base your decisions.

Br0nc0Buster
04-23-2010, 11:24 AM
I liked the strategy, so overall I am OK with how it turned out

You pick the best players period in the first, which is what Josh did, he picked the players he thought were the best for this team
I dont agree with the Tebow pick, but overall we didnt give up a lot for him with the ammo we acquired trading back for Bey Bey

I liked the Thomas pick, he has the potential to be an elite player for a long time
I have no problem with them taking him over Dez

He did a good job getting the players he wanted even if one of them is a huge question mark

broncosteven
04-23-2010, 11:40 AM
Look, at least McChamp is just plain stupid. He's incapable of following any pattern of reason that isn't black and white. Arguing with him would be like being angry at my dog for not understanding physics.

You, however... are smart enough to look at the bigger picture. You just choose not to because you're bitter. (Blueflame syndrome.) That, to me is more frustrating.



Again, the synopsis for me is that I would have done this much differently, but I do like these players. I'm going to look at how al of these pieces fit together before I assume we had a ****ty (or great) draft. As I said, you acquire your building blocks in a number of different ways. This draft was just one of them.

I basically said I don't like our approach. How can that be "spin?" Is it spin because I'm also not going to panic over it?


Sorry, man. I'm just not going to get my panties knot-wadded over every long-snapper we release/sign.

It's a draft. We picked players. Our prior coach absolutely BUTCHERED drafts for the last decade.

Maybe we can give the new coach more than one season to put his team together before we just assume he's ****ed it all up?

Crazy, I know... the notion of being reasonable and using evidence to base your decisions.

That is fine, deep down your conflicted just like the rest of us and you know it.

We all hope it will work out and Tebow and mCd take us to a couple SB's, it might be 3-4 years from now but it is only a couple years.

We agree we need to nail down a starting C, LG and a front 7 D some time over the next couple days.

You have your out if Tebow takes off or if he tanks. If he excells you can point to this thread and say look what I wrote, if he tanks you can point to this thread and say look what I wrote. I understand.

ColoradoBuff
04-23-2010, 11:50 AM
I think you can get a lot of guys in the 2nd day of the draft that will change your mind. There are a ton of OL guys still available. Jerry, Asomoah, Williams, Walton, Tennant, Larsen, Olsen, Ducasse, Saffold, and then probably a few more that we've not even talked about at this point. On the DL you have guys like Mt. Cody, Linval Joseph, and Cam Thomas still available. The smallest of those three is 6' 4 1/2" and 328 lbs... bigger than Dan Williams and just as productive the past three years.

I will agree with you that this team didn't do anything thus far that will really improve our performance THIS year... not in the draft that is. But I don't think you're giving enough credit to Jamaal Williams, or any of the other FA acquisitions.

From this point on in the draft, I think we'll address OG, DT, C, ILB, and WR again.

We could very well end up with John Jerry, Linval Joseph, Matt Tennant, Brandon Spikes, and Jacoby Ford STILL. I won't hold my breath that any of the guys we "like" will be drafted, but I don't pretend to know more about any of these players than the Denver Broncos front office.

This much you can surely agree on, the Broncos made a splash in day one of the 2010 draft. They drafted a potential stud at WR (Calvin Johnson like physical abilities) and a QB that will become a fan favorite and bring a completely new fan base to Denver. For Pat Bowlen's money, Tim Tebow was probably the best pick McD could have made in this entire draft. The return he will get on that investment is small compared to the contract Tebow will sign.

I agree with this 100%. The gap between a John Jerry, DuCasse, Asomoah vs Iupati isn't that much. And the same goes for T. Cody, Cam Thomas, L. Joseph vs Dan Williams isn't that much either...or Pouncey vs Walton or Tennant. There is still great value in rounds 2-3 for what we are looking for!

Popps
04-23-2010, 11:56 AM
That is fine, deep down your conflicted just like the rest of us and you know it..

I think that's what I said, right? Let me check... yea, it is.

Maybe I'm giving your intelligence too much credit?


You have your out if Tebow takes off or if he tanks. If he excells you can point to this thread and say look what I wrote, if he tanks you can point to this thread and say look what I wrote. I understand.

I have no idea if Tebow will take off. Why would I want to "point to a thread" about that? I didn't think we'd take him. I have no clue how he'll turn out. Why does it have to be about being "right" about the guy? We can't just be excited to see how it goes, and root him on?


Maybe some of you fence-fans have just forgotten how to enjoy this whole process. (BPC Syndrome.) Maybe you're so wrought with bitterness and anger... you're bordering on wanting the team to fail.

All I know is, I didn't like our approach... but I'm intrigued by these players.

Pretty simple.

Popps
04-23-2010, 12:01 PM
I agree with this 100%. The gap between a John Jerry, DuCasse, Asomoah vs Iupati isn't that much. And the same goes for T. Cody, Cam Thomas, L. Joseph vs Dan Williams isn't that much either...or Pouncey vs Walton or Tennant. There is still great value in rounds 2-3 for what we are looking for!

The usual thinking on OL is that you do get good value in the middle rounds.
So, let's hope that holds up.

go_broncos
04-23-2010, 12:08 PM
Mcd sucks in drafting players. He is a good coach and has passion.
The problem is his philosophy of giving too much importance to character
Also, he panics on draft day and gives up too many picks to draft his players.
I am hopeful that bowlen hires a GM.
Mcd can coach and motivate the player's on game day..But, I don't like the way he drafts.

broncosteven
04-23-2010, 12:09 PM
I think that's what I said, right? Let me check... yea, it is.

Maybe I'm giving your intelligence too much credit?



I have no idea if Tebow will take off. Why would I want to "point to a thread" about that? I didn't think we'd take him. I have no clue how he'll turn out. Why does it have to be about being "right" about the guy? We can't just be excited to see how it goes, and root him on?


Maybe some of you fence-fans have just forgotten how to enjoy this whole process. (BPC Syndrome.) Maybe you're so wrought with bitterness and anger... you're bordering on wanting the team to fail.

All I know is, I didn't like our approach... but I'm intrigued by these players.

Pretty simple.

This year will tell alot, so far the draft has been status quo. Just encouraged to hear that there was something about mCd that confused you or you didn't like for a change rather than defend him to the last breath (Popps Syndrome). Nice pulling out the (TSI syndrome) questioning my fan status.
/JK
LOL

I am joking about the syndromes I couldn't pass it up don't get mad.

I still think it would be cool to talk to you about this regime face to face over some beers. The iNterNets get in the way and distort everyones perception of reality.

Enjoy day 2 dude.

Popps
04-23-2010, 12:16 PM
This year will tell alot, so far the draft has been status quo. Just encouraged to hear that there was something about mCd that confused you or you didn't like for a change rather than defend him to the last breath (Popps Syndrome). Nice pulling out the (TSI syndrome) questioning my fan status.
/JK
LOL

I am joking about the syndromes I couldn't pass it up don't get mad.

I still think it would be cool to talk to you about this regime face to face over some beers. The iNterNets get in the way and distort everyones perception of reality.

Enjoy day 2 dude.


My stance has remained that McD deserves time to get his team in place before we anoint him a success or failure. I like his overall approach, and have liked most of our moves. I'm never going to like ALL of any coaches moves.

I gave Shanahan a long time before I finally agreed it was time to move on. McD is going to get some time from me, as well.

Popps
04-23-2010, 12:18 PM
That said, McD has polarized his own situation. He's not afraid of anything. I like that. But, from a perception standpoint... he's made bold moves that are going to gain him immense praise or criticism. No in between.

But, the wild card? Pat Bowlen believes in him, and won't pull the trigger on replacing him to quickly. That's why I think he'll wind up being a success in Denver.

Broncoman13
04-23-2010, 12:19 PM
Man, sucks when it comes down to having to "go on record" and say whether you like or dislike a player so that when the player does well or poorly someone has the ability to find the thread and throw it up on the Mane. It would be nice to just root for your team and hope for the best and not be a blind homer. I didn't really care for Bey Bey Thomas prior to the draft... now I'm a fan and hope he makes us all forget about Brandon Marshall. Is that so wrong?

gyldenlove
04-23-2010, 12:20 PM
The biggest problem by with this 1st day and the ditto last year is that we can all agree that football starts in the trenches, at least I hope we can, and despite now having spend 4 1st round picks in two years and 3 2nd round picks with presumably at least 1 more coming we have no drafted a single offensive or defensive lineman. We have drafted: 1 RB, 1 WR, 1 QB, 1 TE, 1 LB, 1 CB, 1 S, in fact pretty much every possible position aside from DL and OL.

Was Orton spectacular for us? no, was he good? yes, was Moreno spectacular? no, can he be a lot better? yes. It all comes down to the time and space we can give those players and so far we have done nothing to address that problem, this looks to me a little too much like what Shanny used to do: "we just need more skill then we will be fine", and it didn't work, we needed more fundamentals.

Right now we have big gaping holes at RG and C both of which have to be addressed at some point during this offseason, we saw how far you can get with smokes and mirrors and it is not far enough and it will not be far enough given that we have a sophomore RB and a rookie QB, those guys need to be protected or they will wash out like David Carr and all the rest of those promising rookies who end up behind shotty blockers.

I really really hope that Mcdaniels is going shore up the lines because it was evident last year when our run game was stuck in neutral and our defense got gouged to hell that the lines should be the focal point and so far they haven't been.

BroncoInferno
04-23-2010, 12:22 PM
What is your take on day one inferno, i'd like to know.

I love the manuevering we did early. I wasn't crazy about giving up a 4th to move up two spots; I think Thomas would have still been on the board. But, you never know, the Ravens apparently wanted to take him so they may have been trying to move up. I'm not crazy about the Tebow pick, but McD knows how to build QBs so I am cautiously optimistic that it will pay dividends down the road. Hopefully, we get an interior lineman today who will have a chance to play right away.

Popps
04-23-2010, 12:22 PM
Man, sucks when it comes down to having to "go on record" and say whether you like or dislike a player so that when the player does well or poorly someone has the ability to find the thread and throw it up on the Mane. It would be nice to just root for your team and hope for the best and not be a blind homer. I didn't really care for Bey Bey Thomas prior to the draft... now I'm a fan and hope he makes us all forget about Brandon Marshall. Is that so wrong?

No.



I think it's fine to dislike the approach we took, but still be excited about these players as a fan. They're exciting players. This draft will only be a "disaster" if we fail to address our other needs in an efficient manner, be it through FA, trades or other draft picks. (This year, last year, next year.)

outdoor_miner
04-23-2010, 12:32 PM
Right now we have big gaping holes at RG and C both of which have to be addressed at some point during this offseason, we saw how far you can get with smokes and mirrors and it is not far enough and it will not be far enough given that we have a sophomore RB and a rookie QB, those guys need to be protected or they will wash out like David Carr and all the rest of those promising rookies who end up behind shotty blockers.

Do you really think that either of those positions require 1st round talent? Olsen was drafted to play Guard, I'm not sure why people have given up on him. He was a 4th round pick.

Like you, I'd like to see us draft OL and DL today to add depth. I just think it's a little early to panic.

gyldenlove
04-23-2010, 12:38 PM
Do you really think that either of those positions require 1st round talent? Olsen was drafted to play Guard, I'm not sure why people have given up on him. He was a 4th round pick.

Like you, I'd like to see us draft OL and DL today to add depth. I just think it's a little early to panic.

If you want people who are ready to play in year 1 you are better off drafting early talent. Speaking of 4th round offensive linemen how is Kory Lichtensteiger doing?

I am not ready to annoint Seth Olsen as the saviour and starter at LG, if he turns out to be good, then great, but putting all your eggs into the Seth Olsen basket would be downright foolish considering the depth or lack of same we have at OG and OC. Even if Olsen is ready to play at a high level he can't man both RG and C so we need someone anyway.

Popps
04-23-2010, 12:39 PM
Do you really think that either of those positions require 1st round talent? Olsen was drafted to play Guard, I'm not sure why people have given up on him. He was a 4th round pick.

Like you, I'd like to see us draft OL and DL today to add depth. I just think it's a little early to panic.

Was thinking about Olsen yesterday. Was a little surprised he didn't earn time last year. But, hoping for the best.

As a rule, though... you can do well for your O-line in the middle rounds. I just hope that holds true this year, because we need a starting C.

SportinOne
04-23-2010, 12:51 PM
Look, at least McChamp is just plain stupid. He's incapable of following any pattern of reason that isn't black and white. Arguing with him would be like being angry at my dog for not understanding physics.

You, however... are smart enough to look at the bigger picture. You just choose not to because you're bitter. (Blueflame syndrome.) That, to me is more frustrating.



Again, the synopsis for me is that I would have done this much differently, but I do like these players. I'm going to look at how al of these pieces fit together before I assume we had a ****ty (or great) draft. As I said, you acquire your building blocks in a number of different ways. This draft was just one of them.

I basically said I don't like our approach. How can that be "spin?" Is it spin because I'm also not going to panic over it?


Sorry, man. I'm just not going to get my panties knot-wadded over every long-snapper we release/sign.

It's a draft. We picked players. Our prior coach absolutely BUTCHERED drafts for the last decade.

Maybe we can give the new coach more than one season to put his team together before we just assume he's ****ed it all up?

Crazy, I know... the notion of being reasonable and using evidence to base your decisions.

1. i take your insult with about as much credibility as if your dog had said it.

2. Yes, there are more ways to build a team. However, we are talking about the draft and nothing else. You can't justify a bad draft by saying "we can build this thing some other way" any more than a fat person can eat at McDonalds every day and justify it by saying, "You know, there is an invention called a treadmill and I could EASILY go out and buy one!"

draft still sucks, man is still fat. and i'm really not arguing with your points as much as I am making fun of your amazing ability to come to kid wonder's rescue every time he ****s up.

don't worry, you aren't the only one. the vast majority of this board voted Tim Tebow as the one player that they DID NOT WANT drafted in the first round. Things change fast, huh?

Popps
04-23-2010, 12:57 PM
don't worry, you aren't the only one. the vast majority of this board voted Tim Tebow as the one player that they DID NOT WANT drafted in the first round. Things change fast, huh?


Yea, it's weird that fans would move on to accept and embrace an exciting prospect we drafted.

I just can't my head around it.

Crazy.

Hulamau
04-23-2010, 02:17 PM
Well, again... I'm with you. Those are guys I would have rather had.

But, as I said... the flipside is, our entire team isn't going to come from this draft.

Is it possible that these to players represent the best value per dollar spent and the most logical options for us, in the big picture? Maybe. Maybe not.

Once again, we'll need time to know.

I think my point is... if this team comes together properly, I don't really care in what round a guy was picked. If Thomas goes on to be a star receiver for us, I'm not going to sweat missing a great guard. We'll just have to get the great guard somewhere else.... just like if we didn't take Thomas, we'd have to find a primary receiver somewhere else.

Just because the team didn't draft how I wanted them to doesn't make the draft bad. As I said, it's a puzzle... and you grab pieces that you think make the most sense from multiple areas.

It's a net/net thing.

But, sure... I wish we would have taken two OL. That doesn't mean this still might not be a very successful draft. Lots of guys still to pick, too.

Good post and thread Popps,

I was a little surprised too and was hoping for Graham, Dan Williams or 'Spoon as well. But I also was hoping we would find some way to bag Demaryius as I truly think this kid has the tools to be the bomb, make everyone happy and no longer miss ... if not forget ... B Marsh. And he's a downfield blocking demon too which may have helped sway the pick to him from Dez?

Tebow is the wildcard (or is that wildcat? ... for this year at least), but after the initial bit of surprise that we actually went for it (not such a surprise actually with all the advanced warnings it would be him), I can fully understand Josh's thinking and am pulling for him big time that he can mold Tebow into an all world 16 year wonderboy for us.

We do need some new blood at ILB, center and guard ... also at DE. A promising FB/HB and TE would be gravy as well. But there are some FA veteran centers still not signed and we did interview at Dove Valley three good rookie centers expected to go in the second and third rounds so I suspect we use one of the three picks today on one of them as well.


Maybe we go for Brandon Spikes too at LB and possibly Toby Gerhart at RB or even a Gronkowski at TE if any of those guys are still around when we get a center and the other two picks role around? Some good D lineman and some decent Olinemen are still avaialbe so I imagine we have a plan to fill the needs.

I also think the Broncos feel good about Chris Baker as a NT this year in rotation with Jamal and Fields and expect to see more him. Same with Seth Olson who I suspect will start and do well at left guard. Olsen can play center too and there is Dustin Fry as a servicable center, though not yet a Nalen clone by any means.

Point being, a few of these guys under development from last year should be ready to rumble this year (Smith, Tony Carter and Ayers among them) and perhaps we draft for depth the rest of the way for the most part for this year and if any of the new rookies from round three on are ready for prime time in September all the better!


Tebow is a role of the dice but obviously Josh feels really good about what he can do with him and I'm excited to see if he's right. If so, McD will be crowned the wizard kid who tore up the 2010 draft.

hookemhess
04-23-2010, 02:28 PM
@Adam_Schefter Denver went into Thursday with a 1st, two 2nds and a 3rd -- and came out with two 1sts, one 2nd, two 3rds, and the two players it wanted.

outdoor_miner
04-23-2010, 02:32 PM
If you want people who are ready to play in year 1 you are better off drafting early talent. Speaking of 4th round offensive linemen how is Kory Lichtensteiger doing?

I am not ready to annoint Seth Olsen as the saviour and starter at LG, if he turns out to be good, then great, but putting all your eggs into the Seth Olsen basket would be downright foolish considering the depth or lack of same we have at OG and OC. Even if Olsen is ready to play at a high level he can't man both RG and C so we need someone anyway.

I'm not saying being drafted in the 4th round guarantees anything. I'm just saying it is pretty typical for an NFL line to have starting interior linemen from this range, and it is reasonable to think that McD (having coached Olsen for a year) thinks he is ready.

As for you being ready to anoint him, that's fine; it's the coach's job to evaluate the talent available on the team vs. that available in the draft. I'm just providing a possible explanation for why we did not draft OL in the first round. Now - if today ends and we do not pick up at least 1 interior OL (my premise is based on Olsen being ready to start at Guard or Center), then I will certainly be scratching my head wondering what the heck they are thinking. I just think that there is starting caliber talent that can be found in 2nd/3rd rounds on the interior O-Line, and that missing out on Pouncey and Iupati does not really spell doom.

Heck - Pouncey didn't even make the line calls at Florida, so it's not like he's entirely "NFL ready". Before the draft, I heard talk of him starting out his career at Guard and moving to Center later.

Popps
04-23-2010, 06:11 PM
Well, looks like step one to me being happy with this draft just took place. We got (what sounds like) a premiere G prospect.

Keep in mind, we saw a couple interior O-line go in the first, but the high 2nd is still pretty high for a G. I like what I'm reading. Good stuff. Maybe a C next?

Drek
04-23-2010, 06:32 PM
Heck - Pouncey didn't even make the line calls at Florida, so it's not like he's entirely "NFL ready". Before the draft, I heard talk of him starting out his career at Guard and moving to Center later.

That is supposed to be Pittsburgh's plan. Hartwig still starts at C while Pouncey learns.

gyldenlove
04-23-2010, 07:04 PM
I'm not saying being drafted in the 4th round guarantees anything. I'm just saying it is pretty typical for an NFL line to have starting interior linemen from this range, and it is reasonable to think that McD (having coached Olsen for a year) thinks he is ready.

As for you being ready to anoint him, that's fine; it's the coach's job to evaluate the talent available on the team vs. that available in the draft. I'm just providing a possible explanation for why we did not draft OL in the first round. Now - if today ends and we do not pick up at least 1 interior OL (my premise is based on Olsen being ready to start at Guard or Center), then I will certainly be scratching my head wondering what the heck they are thinking. I just think that there is starting caliber talent that can be found in 2nd/3rd rounds on the interior O-Line, and that missing out on Pouncey and Iupati does not really spell doom.

Heck - Pouncey didn't even make the line calls at Florida, so it's not like he's entirely "NFL ready". Before the draft, I heard talk of him starting out his career at Guard and moving to Center later.

You can do well with interior OL in the middle rounds, no doubt about that, but history shows that offensive linemen drafted in the middle rounds are not going to start their rookie year and we do need starters.

With Beadles in the 2nd round we have a guy who will most likely start right away, it worries me he doesn't have center experience since Olsen doesn't either so we may still be short a guy who can snap the ball but lets see.

As for Pouncey I don't think any Florida player is ready to start right away, so many gifted guys come out of Florida but way too many of them have not been coached to the level they should be.

Circle Orange
04-23-2010, 07:15 PM
I think the worst part is Woody Paige agrees with it all. That could signal serious trouble.

I read Woody's crazy article. Someone should tell him that

Milk + Cookies = good
Scotch + Gas = bad

Honestly, the Tebow thing has me scratching my head...I have no perspective! Everything's gone fuzzy in my mind. http://scosoft.com/s/k/6d39bd6b.gif

Well, we lady fans should be happy, at any rate. There's a new stable of hunky qbs to stare at (or grab on the sidelines) even if they're crap on the field. http://scosoft.com/s/Love/1cd86bd.gif

All except Orton, but you can't have everything.