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View Full Version : McDaniels explains why the Broncos traded Marshall


montrose
04-19-2010, 09:39 AM
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baja
04-19-2010, 09:43 AM
Not willing to make a long term investment = we are betting he will **** up again

Steve Sewell
04-19-2010, 09:43 AM
No no no! He did it because he wants to destroy the Denver Broncos, didn't you know that?

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 09:47 AM
I wanna listen ... but that thumbnail, with the cross-eyed, deer in the headlights look.

Can somebody jot down a few talking points?

Dr. Broncenstein
04-19-2010, 09:50 AM
Brandon was traded for teh lulz.

Dagmar
04-19-2010, 09:50 AM
I wanna listen ... but that thumbnail, with the cross-eyed, deer in the headlights look.

Can somebody jot down a few talking points?

You don't have 16 seconds?

Dagmar
04-19-2010, 09:52 AM
I wanna listen ... but that thumbnail, with the cross-eyed, deer in the headlights look.

Can somebody jot down a few talking points?

We just made a decision as an organization that we weren't going to make a long term investment in the player and at that point you decide to put you assets somewhere else and build your team in a different direction

briane
04-19-2010, 09:53 AM
There better be a long term investment in DOOM!

Dr. Broncenstein
04-19-2010, 09:57 AM
We're just trying to trade a motherfarking headcase.

Steve Sewell
04-19-2010, 09:58 AM
I wanna listen ... but that thumbnail, with the cross-eyed, deer in the headlights look.

Can somebody jot down a few talking points?

He said he did it to make all those pesky armchair GM's angry.

Mr.Meanie
04-19-2010, 10:00 AM
He's saying he would rather break the bank for Doom than Marshall

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 10:01 AM
Josh might be right, but logic dictates otherwise. We're giving up on Brandon at the same time several other teams - teams with experienced front offices - chose to not only surrender serious picks for the guy, but also sign him to a monster deal.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm gonna go ahead and think Bill Parcells knows better than Josh.

Dagmar
04-19-2010, 10:04 AM
Josh might be right, but logic dictates otherwise. We're giving up on Brandon at the same time several other teams - teams with experienced front offices - chose to not only surrender serious picks for the guy, but also sign him to a monster deal.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm gonna go ahead and think Bill Parcells knows better than Josh.

I transcribed it for you since you can't listen, it's in my 2nd post above.

Steve Sewell
04-19-2010, 10:07 AM
I hope I'm wrong, but I'm gonna go ahead and think Bill Parcells knows better than Josh.

MeShawn and TO would like to have a word with you, sir.

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 10:10 AM
We just made a decision as an organization that we weren't going to make a long term investment in the best player on our team, and at that point you decide to put you assets into this year's Darcel McBath and next year's Richard Quinn, and build our team in that direction

Fixed it for Josh.

Dagmar
04-19-2010, 10:13 AM
Fixed it for Josh.

LOL

Yes, the lawyer from Seattle knows better than the coach. ^5

Dr. Broncenstein
04-19-2010, 10:14 AM
Fixed it for Josh.

Are you hating on McBath?

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 10:20 AM
LOL

Yes, the lawyer from Seattle knows better than the coach. ^5

No, the several other GMs who wanted Brandon, including the 3-time Super Bowl winning GM who made him the highest paid WR in history ... THEY know better.

A lot better.

Than a guy with barely a year's front office experience.

On that point.

We should all agree.

Garcia Bronco
04-19-2010, 10:26 AM
If a WR is the best player on your team, you are going to lose most of your games. And for the record, the best player on our team lines up at left tackle....which is what you ****ing want.

Dagmar
04-19-2010, 10:26 AM
You are

starting

To type

Your sentences

like mock

purchase a pronoun!

Dagmar
04-19-2010, 10:26 AM
If a WR is the best player on your team, you are going to lose most of your games.

Detroit & Houston agree.

baja
04-19-2010, 10:27 AM
No, the several other GMs who wanted Brandon, including the 3-time Super Bowl winning GM who made him the highest paid WR in history ... THEY know better.

A lot better.

Than a guy with barely a year's front office experience.

On that point.

We should all agree.

Time whining about the loss of Shanahan = about 6 months

Time whining about missing Cutler = 18 months and counting

Time whining about missing Marshall = 10 days and counting

Time whining about the loss of Chris Sims = To the end of time.


Predict Buffs next whine here;


__________________________

Steve Sewell
04-19-2010, 10:28 AM
No, the several other GMs who wanted Brandon, including the 3-time Super Bowl winning GM who made him the highest paid WR in history ... THEY know better.

A lot better.

Than a guy with barely a year's front office experience.

On that point.

We should all agree.

The last time Parcels won a SB, I was 13 years old. I'm now 33 years old.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-19-2010, 10:29 AM
Sublease a hint

Garcia Bronco
04-19-2010, 10:29 AM
Time whining about the loss of Shanahan = about 6 months

Time whining about missing Cutler = 18 months and counting

Time whining about missing Marshall = 10 days and counting

Time whining about the loss of Chris Sims = To the end of time.


Predict Buffs next whine here;


__________________________

A Merlot?

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 10:31 AM
Are you hating on McBath?

Not sure what that means exactly ... but I continue suspicious of those who laud McBath as a "monster." It's only the pro-Josh guys who do this, and it seems convenient to praise a safety - the position most notorious for being impossible to evaluate from network telecasts.

And since we cannot reliably evaluate the safety position on TV, I'm simply requesting some links to credible sources who describe him as such. That should be easy easy.

_Oro_
04-19-2010, 10:32 AM
Fixed it for Josh.

Would you rather have 17 sacks or 1120 yards and 10tds?

scorpio
04-19-2010, 10:34 AM
Fixed it for Josh.


http://i41.tinypic.com/28kn6tw.jpg

Dr. Broncenstein
04-19-2010, 10:38 AM
Not sure what that means exactly ... but I continue suspicious of those who laud McBath as a "monster." It's only the pro-Josh guys who do this, and it seems convenient to praise a safety - the position most notorious for being impossible to evaluate from network telecasts.

And since we cannot reliably evaluate the safety position on TV, I'm simply requesting some links to credible sources who describe him as such. That should be easy easy.

I've been quite vocal in my dislike for McD, but I saw with my own eyes that McBath had fantastic rookie campaign. It was a great pick, on a player who produced when asked to right out of the draft. I don't know if he'll be a "monster," but he certainly flashed with limited oppertunity. Can't say the same about Ayers / Smith / Quinn.

bronco militia
04-19-2010, 10:39 AM
Would you rather have 17 sacks or 1120 yards and 10tds?

http://www.scotthyver.com/vision/imgs/mike_nolan_lasik.jpg

I'm going to have both! :giggle:

DomCasual
04-19-2010, 10:44 AM
Josh might be right, but logic dictates otherwise. We're giving up on Brandon at the same time several other teams - teams with experienced front offices - chose to not only surrender serious picks for the guy, but also sign him to a monster deal.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm gonna go ahead and think Bill Parcells knows better than Josh.

Yeah, the guy who probably met him for the first time a few weeks ago knows better than the guy who spent the last year with him (and the guys on the staff/in the front office that have spent the last four years with him).

Right. That makes sense.

It's like cutting your losses on the trophy wife that hears voices telling her to kill you in your sleep. Sure, she's hot. She's probably a tiger in bed. But that whole sleeping with one eye open thing is getting really, really old. You dump her, and some other guy immediately falls in love with her body and "skill set" in bed (just for you, go broncos). Clearly, that new guy - the one who is about to learn, to the minute, how long the sun stays down at night - must know something about her that you don't, right?

Or, maybe you know something about her that he just has to learn for himself.

However you want to look at that, and stuff. ::)

elsid13
04-19-2010, 10:47 AM
Yeah, the guy who probably met him for the first time a few weeks ago knows better than the guy who spent the last year with him (and the guys on the staff/in the front office that have spent the last four years with him).

Right. That makes sense.

It's like cutting your losses on the trophy wife that hears voices telling her to kill you in your sleep. Sure, she's hot. She's probably a tiger in bed. But that whole sleeping with one eye open thing is getting really, really old. You dump her, and some other guy immediately falls in love with her body and "skill set" in bed (just for you, go broncos). Clearly, that new guy - the one who is about to learn, to the minute, how long the sun stays down at night - must know something about her that you don't, right?

Or, maybe you know something about her that he just has to learn for himself.

However you want to look at that, and stuff. ::)

That not actually true. Seattle has three former Denver offense coaches that all vouched for Marshall, and you know Parcells asked Nolan about what happened last season, before he made his move.

tsiguy96
04-19-2010, 10:48 AM
Detroit & Houston agree.

detroit has a WR that has the potential and skill to be one of the best ever, and they never win more than 2 games.

TonyR
04-19-2010, 10:49 AM
It's like cutting your losses on the trophy wife that hears voices telling her to kill you in your sleep. Sure, she's hot. She's probably a tiger in bed. But that whole sleeping with one eye open thing is getting really, really old. You dump her, and some other guy immediately falls in love with her body and "skill set"...

Great post. Great analogy.

This has nothing to do with Parcells "knowing more" than McDaniels/Xanders. It has to do with Parcells being in a better position to make a big gamble. What does he have to lose?

Rohirrim
04-19-2010, 10:52 AM
Yeah, the guy who probably met him for the first time a few weeks ago knows better than the guy who spent the last year with him (and the guys on the staff/in the front office that have spent the last four years with him).

Right. That makes sense.

It's like cutting your losses on the trophy wife that hears voices telling her to kill you in your sleep. Sure, she's hot. She's probably a tiger in bed. But that whole sleeping with one eye open thing is getting really, really old. You dump her, and some other guy immediately falls in love with her body and "skill set" in bed (just for you, go broncos). Clearly, that new guy - the one who is about to learn, to the minute, how long the sun stays down at night - must know something about her that you don't, right?

Or, maybe you know something about her that he just has to learn for himself.

However you want to look at that, and stuff. ::)

Ha! No doubt. This can be summed up in four words: Parcells is a gambler. He just went all in on Marshall. McD folded. By the end of next season, we'll see who played their cards right. (fun with analogies ;D)

Mr.Meanie
04-19-2010, 10:57 AM
That not actually true. Seattle has three former Denver offense coaches that all vouched for Marshall, and you know Parcells asked Nolan about what happened last season, before he made his move.

Yes, they vouched for him so much that Seattle chose to trade for Charlie freaking Whitehurst instead of BMarsh. Good argument.

Dagmar
04-19-2010, 11:00 AM
detroit has a WR that has the potential and skill to be one of the best ever, and they never win more than 2 games.

That was my point...

elsid13
04-19-2010, 11:04 AM
Yes, they vouched for him so much that Seattle chose to trade for Charlie freaking Whitehurst instead of BMarsh. Good argument.


Seattle was extremely interested in Marshall, which help drive the trade value we got for him. Plus Whitehurst is lot better then people on this board think, and it was smart move by Seattle to get a young QB that will be ready to take over for Hasselback.

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 11:10 AM
Would you rather have 17 sacks or 1120 yards and 10tds?

Are you under the mistaken assumption it was one or the other?

And Garcia, I'm not sure where to start with your post. I suppose Clady is as good as Marshall, and vice versa, fair enough there. But LT is not necessarily where you want your best player. It's an important position, but not necessarily the most important. Houston I suppose is a good examples of a losing/.500 teams with a WR-best-player, but Detroit? REALLY? Please.

On the other hand, you've got Joe Thomas, Jordan Gross, Jason Peters (on two teams), and your example Ryan Clady, all LT-best-players on losing/.500 teams. So maybe don't just throw Andre Johnson, and sit back satisfied you've "slain" me ... obviously you didn't think this through.

Steve Sewell
04-19-2010, 11:11 AM
Seattle was extremely interested in Marshall, which help drive the trade value we got for him. Plus Whitehurst is lot better then people on this board think, and it was smart move by Seattle to get a young QB that will be ready to take over for Hasselback.

Yeah if I were a short timer assistant that job hopped all over the place I'd be interested in the quick fix that Marshall presented as well. Would help on my resume for my next destination. Just playing devil's advocate.

Cito Pelon
04-19-2010, 11:11 AM
Josh might be right, but logic dictates otherwise. We're giving up on Brandon at the same time several other teams - teams with experienced front offices - chose to not only surrender serious picks for the guy, but also sign him to a monster deal.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm gonna go ahead and think Bill Parcells knows better than Josh.

I'm wondering how long it will be before you go from "several other teams and monster deal" to "a couple other teams and an adequate deal" to "one team and a protected deal". ;D

Drek
04-19-2010, 11:14 AM
No, the several other GMs who wanted Brandon, including the 3-time Super Bowl winning GM who made him the highest paid WR in history ... THEY know better.

A lot better.

Than a guy with barely a year's front office experience.

On that point.

We should all agree.

Why should we all agree Buff?

If what you say is true then why does Bill Parcells ever lose? Why did Shanahan seem so completely out of touch with what it took to win in his last few years here? Why did Joe Gibbs never get the Redskins back on their feet in his second time around?

Experience and history only tell people what you have done. Your assumption is that no one will ever be as good as the old successful coaches since they'd obviously have to start out as an inexperienced coach at some point along the line. That just isn't true.

elsid13
04-19-2010, 11:19 AM
Yeah if I were a short timer assistant that job hopped all over the place I'd be interested in the quick fix that Marshall presented as well. Would help on my resume for my next destination. Just playing devil's advocate.

Bates, Fisch and McPherson weren't some short time assistant that didn't know who Marshall was. They were all key position coaches that interacted with him every day and developed him into a player. The value for Marshall was always a 2nd rounder plus something.

baja
04-19-2010, 11:22 AM
Great post. Great analogy.

This has nothing to do with Parcells "knowing more" than McDaniels/Xanders. It has to do with Parcells being in a better position to make a big gamble. What does he have to lose?

Status with his peers.

Steve Sewell
04-19-2010, 11:22 AM
Bates, Fisch and McPherson weren't some short time assistant that didn't know who Marshall was. They were all key position coaches that interacted with him every day and developed him into a player. The value for Marshall was always a 2nd rounder plus something.

I'm referring to the fact that they are short timers now by virtue of being on the NFL staff of Pete Carroll. :sunshine:

TonyR
04-19-2010, 11:33 AM
But LT is not necessarily where you want your best player. It's an important position, but not necessarily the most important.

Outside of possibly QB it's probably the most important position on the field (if you have a right handed QB). That's why it's one of the highest paid positions.

elsid13
04-19-2010, 11:33 AM
I'm referring to the fact that they are short timers now by virtue of being on the NFL staff of Pete Carroll. :sunshine:

Carroll is going to have at least 3 to 4 year in Seattle. That is long time in coaching circles the days.

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 11:37 AM
I'm wondering how long it will be before you go from "several other teams and monster deal" to "a couple other teams and an adequate deal" to "one team and a protected deal". ;D

It is what it is. But it will never be just one team ... Jets admittedly offered their 1st rounder, the 29th pick of the draft. I didn't see anywhere that his new contract is protected, though it definitely should be. What I saw was it surpassed Larry Fitzgerald's deal at the richest ever, "$47.5 million with $24 million in guaranteed money."

bowtown
04-19-2010, 11:46 AM
It is what it is. But it will never be just one team ... Jets admittedly offered their 1st rounder, the 29th pick of the draft. I didn't see anywhere that his new contract is protected, though it definitely shoul . What I saw was it surpassed Larry Fitzgerald's deal at the richest ever, "$47.5 million with $24 million in guaranteed money."

The truth on the Brandon Marshall deal
Posted by Mike Florio on April 17, 2010 5:57 PM ET

Now that NBC has produced and aired a commercial that makes us look a lot better at this than we really are, we need to periodically put something up here that justifies the characterization.

So here's one to consider.

Many of you have wondered how and why the Miami Dolphins could have made Brandon Marshall the highest-paid receiver in NFL history. The easy answer, as we pointed out the other day, is that they didn't -- his widely-reported four-year, $47.5 million extension fairly should be regarded at best as a five-year, $50 million contract, giving Marshall a $10 million annual average that matches the yearly total paid to Cardinals receiver Larry Fitzgerald.

Now for the truth.

For starters, the full contract is worth $47.3 million over five years. It contains a phony $2.7 million roster bonus payable in 2014 -- but only if Marshall participates in 95 percent or more of the Dolphins' special teams plays in 2010.

Why would this be included? To allow Marshall and his agent to characterize the contract as a package worth $10 million per year. Truth be told, it's worth $9.46 million annually.

(That may not seem like much of a difference, but the phantom roster bonus allows Marshall and his agent, Kennard McGuire, to claim with a straight face that Marshall is getting $10 million per year.)

Then there's the notion that the Dolphins would pay $24 million in guaranteed money to a guy with a history of off-field incidents. Surely, V.P. of football operations Bill Parcells hasn't lost his mind, right?

He hasn't. (Or, more accurately, if he has, this isn't proof of it.)

With the 2009 decision in the Plaxico Burress grievance that signing bonus money can be recovered only if the player holds out or retires, a $20 million signing bonus would have been untouchable, even if Marshall had been suspended for a year or longer. So the Dolphins instead have paid out a signing bonus of $5.5 million. Coupled with a guaranteed base salary (for skill and injury) of $4 million in 2010, Marshall's contract has a minimum value of $9.5 million over one year.

Here's the kicker. If the Dolphins decide before April 2, 2011 that Marshall isn't who they thought he was, they can walk away, possibly without paying Marshall another penny. Prior to April 2, 2011, he has only $3 million in future guaranteed money that already has been unlocked. But the contract contains offset language; if they cut him and someone else pays him $3 million in 2011, the Dolphins are off the hook for the balance of the contract.

And even if the Dolphins pay a $3 million option bonus due on April 2, 2011, guaranteed base salaries of $6.5 million in 2011 and $6 million in 2012 (he also has $3 million in non-guaranteed base pay in 2012) can be nullified if Marshall is suspended by the league.

So, for now, the only guaranteed money is $12.5 million, with an offset for up to $3 million. If the Dolphins decided to keep him past April 2, 2011, another $9.5 million in guaranteed base salaries will be available -- as long as Marshall stays out of trouble.

These facts are another reason why it's always dangerous to accept at face value the numbers that the player's camp begins to parrot as soon as the deal is signed.

The problem is that the agent has an incentive to get a skewed version of the contract into the media, the team rarely is willing to say anything that would dampen the "highest paid player!" parade, and the reporter who gets the information often is so determined to be first that the question of whether or not the information is accurate often gets lost in the shuffle. (And, yes, we've done that once or twice -- and we hope that we have learned from it.)

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...marshall-deal/

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 11:48 AM
For starters, the full contract is worth $47.3 million over five years. It contains a phony $2.7 million roster bonus payable in 2014 -- but only if Marshall participates in 95 percent or more of the Dolphins' special teams plays in 2010.

Why would this be included? To allow Marshall and his agent to characterize the contract as a package worth $10 million per year. Truth be told, it's worth $9.46 million annually.

Now THAT'S funny! :rofl:

baja
04-19-2010, 11:54 AM
Now THAT'S funny! :rofl:

I figured a lawyer would have read the media summery of the contract before calling it the highest in NFL for a WR.

Read the fine print Lawyer...

http://lawfirmguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/LonelyMan.jpg

Blueflame
04-19-2010, 11:59 AM
Why should we all agree Buff?

If what you say is true then why does Bill Parcells ever lose? Why did Shanahan seem so completely out of touch with what it took to win in his last few years here? Why did Joe Gibbs never get the Redskins back on their feet in his second time around?

Experience and history only tell people what you have done. Your assumption is that no one will ever be as good as the old successful coaches since they'd obviously have to start out as an inexperienced coach at some point along the line. That just isn't true.

Drek, are you seriously trying to advance the contention that Josh McDaniels... going into his second season as a HC... knows as much about the HC position as Bill Parcells? Or Mike Shanahan? Or Joe Gibbs? 'Cause I don't think Buff was arguing that McDaniels will never know as much as those experienced HC's do... just that he may not know as much as they do right now....

Popps
04-19-2010, 12:17 PM
Not willing to make a long term investment = we are betting he will **** up again

http://gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/31/4503.end_2D00_of_2D00_thread_5F00_do_2D00_not_2D00 _post_2D00_more.jpg

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 12:18 PM
Why should we all agree Buff?

If what you say is true then why does Bill Parcells ever lose? Why did Shanahan seem so completely out of touch with what it took to win in his last few years here? Why did Joe Gibbs never get the Redskins back on their feet in his second time around?

Experience and history only tell people what you have done. Your assumption is that no one will ever be as good as the old successful coaches since they'd obviously have to start out as an inexperienced coach at some point along the line. That just isn't true.

Never meant to argue Parcells is infallible, that would be silly. Just pointing out the reality that Parcells has a long and glittering track record ... a first ballot Hall-of-Famer. On the other hand, Josh has just one year of front office experience. And you can't disagree that numerous players and coaches under his purview have had problems with him.

I've gone out of my way to say this, and I'll say it again: Josh could be right about this. (I'm not hearing much of that even-handed approach around here). He might get greater value from the picks, and get cap relief both. But it just doesn't seem likely ... if there were odds in Vegas on this, they'd be weighted Parcells' favor.

montrose
04-19-2010, 12:22 PM
I think Brandon's a marvelous player and he might do very well in Miami but even if he was a locker room choir boy whose worst off-field offense was spending too much time volunteering, I'd be leery of paying that kind of money to a WR. Not say I wouldn't do it, but I'd much rather invest my budget on OL and Front 7 guys.

Shoemaker
04-19-2010, 12:24 PM
...if there were odds in Vegas on this, they'd be weighted Parcells' favor.

Now see, I'm not so sure about that, Buff.

As many posters in here have stated, Parcells is a gambler. He's taking a big risk on Marshall.

Do you really think there are better odds that Brandon Marshall will straighten up and fly right in South Florida for the rest of his career, and that McDaniels will botch the draft picks...

...or that Marshall will have at least one more incident and be suspended for a significant portion of a season, and Josh will use the picks to draft players who WANT to be here and DON'T need to be the highest paid player at their positions?

I mean, I don't think either will necessarily happen. I think Marshall will make the Dolphins happy, and the Broncos will draft players that will produce for them with the picks.

But I can't honestly say I like Parcell's odds to win this trade more than I like McDaniels'. The risk on his part is too big.

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 12:26 PM
Not willing to make a long term investment = we are betting he will **** up again

Exactly. And Bill Parcells is betting he WON'T screw up again.

And since you use a gambling comparison, I'll end this post as I ended my last one, with just such a metaphor: If there were odds on this in Vegas, they'd be weighted toward Parcells.


And Sewell .... really? He hasn't won a Super Bowl in 19 years ... THAT'S your argument Josh knows better than Parcells?

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 12:52 PM
Now see, I'm not so sure about that, Buff.

As many posters in here have stated, Parcells is a gambler. He's taking a big risk on Marshall.

Do you really think there are better odds that Brandon Marshall will straighten up and fly right in South Florida for the rest of his career, and that McDaniels will botch the draft picks...

...or that Marshall will have at least one more incident and be suspended for a significant portion of a season, and Josh will use the picks to draft players who WANT to be here and DON'T need to be the highest paid player at their positions?

I think Marshall will make the Dolphins happy, and the Broncos will draft players that will produce for them with the picks.

You make good points, no doubt ... I wish you posted as much as baja and Sewell :~ohyah!:

Obviously I hope you're right, I hope we "win" the deal. But the bolded part, in itself, is not likely. As I am wont to say, draft picks are FAR more a crapshoot than they seem this optimistic week before. Look through the last 5 or 6 years of picks .... crapshoot is a very fair description.

And add to that the fact we're already behind on this deal. This year's second rounder can't be expected to do much until 2011-2012, and next year's not until 2012-2013. So we are already "losing" based on these next 2-3 years of nothing in return for him.

Florida_Bronco
04-19-2010, 12:53 PM
Josh might be right, but logic dictates otherwise. We're giving up on Brandon at the same time several other teams - teams with experienced front offices - chose to not only surrender serious picks for the guy, but also sign him to a monster deal.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm gonna go ahead and think Bill Parcells knows better than Josh.

How many teams have taken chances on Terrell Owens? Pacman Jones? Tank Johnson? Chris Henry?

I understand your logic here but the simple fact of the matter is that talented players will get their chances in the NFL. There is almost always someone willing to role the dice on a questionable player as long as the talent level is there.

Sometimes those gambles pay off, sometimes they don't.

Drek, are you seriously trying to advance the contention that Josh McDaniels... going into his second season as a HC... knows as much about the HC position as Bill Parcells? Or Mike Shanahan? Or Joe Gibbs? 'Cause I don't think Buff was arguing that McDaniels will never know as much as those experienced HC's do... just that he may not know as much as they do right now.... Do those guys know more than Josh about being a head coach? Of course, they've got decades of experience doing the job.

Do they know better than Josh what it takes to be a winner in today's NFL? Highly questionable. Neither Gibbs nor Parcells was particularly in their most recent stints and Shanahan's defensive failings/Bob Slowik pretty much remove him from contention right now.

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 01:01 PM
Agree with all of that Florida, except, surprisingly, the Slowik bashing.

Mike hired Jim Haslett as DC ... and Slowick is back where he belongs, as secondary coach.

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 01:07 PM
I figured a lawyer would have read the media summery of the contract before calling it the highest in NFL for a WR.

Read the fine print Lawyer...

http://lawfirmguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/LonelyMan.jpg

Really? A silly clause that shifts Marshall slightly ahead of Fitzgerald means I somehow lose the argument? That's how you "win"?

Yikes. I shudder to think how you manage in real life ... :~ohyah!:

broncosteven
04-19-2010, 01:07 PM
Do they know better than Josh what it takes to be a winner in today's NFL? Highly questionable. Neither Gibbs nor Parcells was particularly in their most recent stints and Shanahan's defensive failings/Bob Slowik pretty much remove him from contention right now.

Didn't Parcell's put together a team in Miami that made the playoffs with a rookie 1st time HC? They went from 1-15 to the playoffs in one year.

I will take that kind of judgement and experience any day.

The next time Josh makes the Playoffs as an HC will be his 1st time.

Zoobie
04-19-2010, 01:11 PM
What has Parcells done in the past decade to warrant his status as a guru? The Phins rode an incredibly weak schedule two years ago to a winning record, last year they couldn't. Meanwhile McDaniels in his first year almost gets to .500 with one of the toughest NFL schedules last season. "What have you done for me lately?"

Zoobie
04-19-2010, 01:12 PM
Didn't Parcell's put together a team in Miami that made the playoffs with a rookie 1st time HC? They went from 1-15 to the playoffs in one year.

I will take that kind of judgement and experience any day.

The next time Josh makes the Playoffs as an HC will be his 1st time.

Yea he made the playoffs while waltzing through a pathetically weak schedule.

broncosteven
04-19-2010, 01:13 PM
What has Parcells done in the past decade to warrant his status as a guru? The Phins rode an incredibly weak schedule two years ago to a winning record, last year they couldn't. Meanwhile McDaniels in his first year almost gets to .500 with one of the toughest NFL schedules last season. "What have you done for me lately?"

They lost their starting QB and had to put in a rookie.

baja
04-19-2010, 01:14 PM
Exactly. And Bill Parcells is betting he WON'T screw up again.

And since you use a gambling comparison, I'll end this post as I ended my last one, with just such a metaphor: If there were odds on this in Vegas, they'd be weighted toward Parcells.


And Sewell .... really? He hasn't won a Super Bowl in 19 years ... THAT'S your argument Josh knows better than Parcells?

So that Vegas line would be on the likely hood of marshall screwing up or not

I think the line would favor Brandon screwing up again based on the track record. So no on Parcells winning this one.

broncosteven
04-19-2010, 01:16 PM
Yea he made the playoffs while waltzing through a pathetically weak schedule.

They have solid O and D lines, they build from the trenches out and they found ways to use the playmakers that were inherited. Last year they drafted a pretty good QB and this year landed the top 2-3 WR in the NFL in his prime.

baja
04-19-2010, 01:16 PM
Really? A silly clause that shifts Marshall slightly ahead of Fitzgerald means I somehow lose the argument? That's how you "win"?

Yikes. I shudder to think how you manage in real life ... :~ohyah!:

Don't you think that guy in the pic looks a little like you?

Want to know how I found it?

I Googled confused lawyer.;D

Blueflame
04-19-2010, 01:17 PM
Bottom line? Jury's still out on whether or not Josh McDaniels is or can be a capable HC. Bill Parcells is a HOF HC. End of story.

DBroncos4life
04-19-2010, 01:20 PM
detroit has a WR that has the potential and skill to be one of the best ever, and they never win more than 2 games.

That is a amazing prediction! Even more so when they won 7 games in 07 with him on the roster.

Rugby7
04-19-2010, 01:21 PM
Fixed it for Josh.
Fixed it for you maybe.
I don't know how many players Denver can afford to give mega contracts, but if they had to choose I think choosing guys like Clady and Doom over Marshall was probably the right choice.

Rohirrim
04-19-2010, 01:34 PM
Bottom line? Jury's still out on whether or not Josh McDaniels is or can be a capable HC. Bill Parcells is a HOF HC. End of story.

Plus, he's just a snazzier looking guy.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0911/rare.parcells.photos/images/bill-parcells-dolphins.jpg

DomCasual
04-19-2010, 01:46 PM
Plus, he's just a snazzier looking guy.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0911/rare.parcells.photos/images/bill-parcells-dolphins.jpg

Yow!

bowtown
04-19-2010, 01:50 PM
Bottom line? Jury's still out on whether or not Josh McDaniels is or can be a capable HC. Bill Parcells is a HOF HC. End of story.

Yep, but Bill Parcells the VP has done nothing yet.

baja
04-19-2010, 01:52 PM
Plus, he's just a snazzier looking guy.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0911/rare.parcells.photos/images/bill-parcells-dolphins.jpg

Always knew that guy was two faced

Blueflame
04-19-2010, 01:56 PM
Yep, but Bill Parcells the VP has done nothing yet.

Neither... really... has Josh McDaniels the HC. :pfbbt: ;D

colorado jones
04-19-2010, 02:27 PM
Plus, he's just a snazzier looking guy.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0911/rare.parcells.photos/images/bill-parcells-dolphins.jpg

That is one hell of a front butt he has going on there.....

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 02:56 PM
Yep, but Bill Parcells the VP has done nothing yet.

You have got to be kidding. Does turning the 1-15 Dolphins into an 11-5 team in his first year, while turning over the bulk of the roster ring any bells? And what about his wildly successful three years as Jets' GM? He turned over that 1-15 roster and went 9-7 and 11-5.

Try to appreciate that ... don't just dismiss in a frenzy of Josh-love: GM Parcells took a 1-15 Jets team, he turned over that roster to go 9-7 his first year, 11-5 his second - and came within 30 minutes of a Super Bowl. Yes, 30 minutes ... Jets led on the road at halftime the AFC Championship game that year, before the buzz-saw that was the 1998 Denver Broncos slammed the door.

bowtown
04-19-2010, 02:58 PM
You have got to be kidding. Does turning the 1-15 Dolphins into an 11-5 team in his first year, while turning over the bulk of the roster ring any bells? And what about his wildly successful three years as Jets' GM? He turned over that 1-15 roster while cruising to 9-7 and 11-5 seasons,

Try to appreciate that ... don't just dismiss in a frenzy of Josh-love: GM Parcells took a 1-15 Jets team, he turned over that roster to go 9-7 his first year, 11-5 his second - and came within 30 minutes of a Super Bowl. Yes, 30 minutes ... Jets led on the road at halftime the AFC Championship game that year, before the buzz-saw that was the 1998 Denver Broncos slammed the door.

I attribute all that to Sparano.

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 03:05 PM
Don't you think that guy in the pic looks a little like you?

Want to know how I found it?

I Googled confused lawyer.;D

http://lawfirmguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/LonelyMan.jpg

Doesn't look confused to me .... looks like he's texting on his Blackberry.

Guess you missed that, eh? :~ohyah!:


And no, he doesn't look that much like me ...

So I Googled "know-it-all expatriate" and I got this guy who looks VERY much like the young BroncoBuff:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_z0zxj5AsGuw/R-DwhsjqXKI/AAAAAAAAAOs/1kH_h5wQTmA/s400/3+young+kieslowski.jpg


The two pictures have remarkably similar body positions, don't they?

Maybe we're more alike than we care to admit, baja.

baja
04-19-2010, 03:08 PM
Who knows? ;D

Cito Pelon
04-19-2010, 03:32 PM
Bates, Fisch and McPherson weren't some short time assistant that didn't know who Marshall was. They were all key position coaches that interacted with him every day and developed him into a player. The value for Marshall was always a 2nd rounder plus something.

Are you arguing that Seattle wanted Marshall? I've lost focus.

Cito Pelon
04-19-2010, 03:36 PM
It is what it is. But it will never be just one team ... Jets admittedly offered their 1st rounder, the 29th pick of the draft. I didn't see anywhere that his new contract is protected, though it definitely should be. What I saw was it surpassed Larry Fitzgerald's deal at the richest ever, "$47.5 million with $24 million in guaranteed money."

So, you've gone from "several teams" to the Jets.

Bronco CB40
04-19-2010, 03:36 PM
What has Parcells done in the past decade to warrant his status as a guru? The Phins rode an incredibly weak schedule two years ago to a winning record, last year they couldn't. Meanwhile McDaniels in his first year almost gets to .500 with one of the toughest NFL schedules last season. "What have you done for me lately?"

Going from 1-15 to beating New England and Brett Favre for the AFC East title is pretty darn impressive no matter how you spin it.

Cito Pelon
04-19-2010, 03:50 PM
Doesn't look confused to me .... looks like he's texting on his Blackberry.

Guess you missed that, eh? :~ohyah!:


And no, he doesn't look that much like me ...

So I Googled "know-it-all expatriate" and I got this guy who looks VERY much like the young BroncoBuff:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_z0zxj5AsGuw/R-DwhsjqXKI/AAAAAAAAAOs/1kH_h5wQTmA/s400/3+young+kieslowski.jpg


The two pictures have remarkably similar body positions, don't they?

Maybe we're more alike than we care to admit, baja.

As a young man you looked like a monk trying to figure out if a camera was an accordion? ;D

gyldenlove
04-19-2010, 03:56 PM
If a WR is the best player on your team, you are going to lose most of your games. And for the record, the best player on our team lines up at left tackle....which is what you ****ing want.

Larry Fitzgerald and his NFC championship ring disagrees with you.

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 04:10 PM
So, you've gone from "several teams" to the Jets.

Man, how do you find the energy to argue these tangential/irrelevant issues?

Listen please: It's AT LEAST THREE TEAMS, and that will NEVER CHANGE: Seahawks, Jets, Dolphins. Likely there are more ... Bleacher Report (though admittedly a weak source), has reported a couple times that the Bears were trying too.


What has Parcells done in the past decade to warrant his status as a guru? The Phins rode an incredibly weak schedule two years ago to a winning record, last year they couldn't. Meanwhile McDaniels in his first year almost gets to .500 with one of the toughest NFL schedules last season. "What have you done for me lately?"

In the first place, McDaniels DID make it to .500, we went 8-8.

And in the second place ... really? You're this desperate to minimize Parcells' in a twisted effort to prove what, that Josh knows better than Bill? That Josh is a better talent evaluator than Bill? Sheesh, save your keyboard the wear and tear, yours is a lost cause (see Post #78, above).


Never ceases to amaze me the twisted, contorted arguments you guys make, on the most tangential if not irrelevant issues, to portray Josh as some kind of master of the front office. Intellectually dishonest is what it is. To argue "what has Parcells done the past decade," and "Parcells has never proven anything." If I made those kinds of arguments, against all weight of facts, I'd be ashamed.

Dagmar
04-19-2010, 04:11 PM
Larry Fitzgerald and his NFC championship ring disagrees with you.

Andre Johnson? Calvin Johnson?

BroncoBuff
04-19-2010, 04:11 PM
As a young man you looked like a monk trying to figure out if a camera was an accordion? ;D

I did a lot of strange things as a young man :~ohyah!:

Drek
04-19-2010, 04:25 PM
Drek, are you seriously trying to advance the contention that Josh McDaniels... going into his second season as a HC... knows as much about the HC position as Bill Parcells? Or Mike Shanahan? Or Joe Gibbs? 'Cause I don't think Buff was arguing that McDaniels will never know as much as those experienced HC's do... just that he may not know as much as they do right now....

Not at all.

Buff is saying that Parcells' experience and pedigree means he's obviously in the right to take a shot on Marshall, and therefore McDaniels is wrong to not do the same.

See the flawed logic there? Parcells' history doesn't make him infallible. Great coaches make big mistakes all the time. Mike Shanahan actively tried to trade Shannon Sharpe at one point. He fired Larry Coyer after Coyer busted hump to even make the rag dag bunch of misfits Shanahan gave him look like a decent D. The put his job on the line (and lost it) to keep Bob Slowik.

Lot of mistakes there.

Joe Gibbs? His second time in Washington was just rife with them.

If Parcells was so infallible you'd think he wouldn't have changed work addresses so many times.

Its trying to prove a positive with a false negative.

Here it is in a real simple format:
1. Bill Parcells is a great Head Coach
2. Great HCs never make bad personnel moves
3. Josh McDaniels made a move counter to what Bill Parcells did.

Therefore Josh McDaniels made a bad personnel move.

The logic falls apart in both steps 2 and 3.

In step 2 it doesn't work because great HCs make bad personnel moves all the time. More and more in fact the longer they stay in the league, if history has anything to say about it.

Step 3 also supposes that the two situations are diametrically opposed, that McDaniels could have kept Marshall here for the exact same contract, with him playing it out quite happily, and that there were no other factors (Williams' killing, Marshall's own behavior here over the years) that twist the situation.

Never meant to argue Parcells is infallible, that would be silly. Just pointing out the reality that Parcells has a long and glittering track record ... a first ballot Hall-of-Famer. On the other hand, Josh has just one year of front office experience. And you can't disagree that numerous players and coaches under his purview have had problems with him.

I've gone out of my way to say this, and I'll say it again: Josh could be right about this. (I'm not hearing much of that even-handed approach around here). He might get greater value from the picks, and get cap relief both. But it just doesn't seem likely ... if there were odds in Vegas on this, they'd be weighted Parcells' favor.

Great, so you've ammended it with a less harsh attitude. Doesn't change the fact that you're ignoring how the situations for Parcells and McDaniels where two entirely different ones.

Marshall genuinely didn't want to be in Denver anymore. It doesn't matter if he ****s up again or not, he didn't want to live in the mountain west. Maybe he just really ****ing hates snow. Maybe he's just homesick. Fact is, the Broncos supposedly offered almost an identical kind of back loaded deal with a $9.5M AAV one year sooner. That means he turned down more money than he actually got now (since he played last year for about $8M less, $8M is not the difference between the two alleged offers).

How is that so hard to figure out? ****, I live in the midwest and I actively look at jobs back in the northeast every day. Not that I absolutely hate the midwest, but if I had my druthers I'd be back east. I'm sure as hell not buying a house or making long term plans out here, and while I'm good at what I do I'm not one of about 20 guys on the entire planet who can do my job. Marshall is. He had the leverage to find his way to a more acceptable locale and he did just that.

I'm just happy we walked away with two seconds, one in the first half of the second this year. We could have gotten a lot worse if Marshall didn't behave this off-season to date. I wish him the best of luck but it just wasn't going to work out here. Time for people to move on.

baja
04-19-2010, 04:28 PM
I did a lot of strange things as a young man :~ohyah!:

With the strangest being changing into an old woman...

Kaylore
04-19-2010, 10:25 PM
I think Brandon's a marvelous player and he might do very well in Miami but even if he was a locker room choir boy whose worst off-field offense was spending too much time volunteering, I'd be leery of paying that kind of money to a WR. Not say I wouldn't do it, but I'd much rather invest my budget on OL and Front 7 guys.

This is the best point. Regardless of what you think of Marshall, in this offense with this QB is paying 50 mil to a wideout, one that doesn't want to be here, the best option and what this team needs? The answer is no.