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TheReverend
04-16-2010, 11:29 AM
All the articles you could want to read on the situation:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GS

But let's be realistic, as much as Goldman DESERVES to get burnt to the ground, they buy and sell the SEC and this is just a token move by the SEC to look LESS corrupt.

Goldman (GS) is a screaming buy right now, imo.

prunch
04-16-2010, 11:47 AM
Their actions recently were nothing short of treason. But they own washington so nothing will happen.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2010, 11:54 AM
Their actions recently were nothing short of treason. But they own washington so nothing will happen.

It is treason, and I think something is going to come of it.

TheReverend
04-16-2010, 12:00 PM
It is treason, and I think something is going to come of it.

I'll bet at max it's like a 15 million dollar fine (the approx value of what they're accused of in this instance).

15 mill vs 8-9 billion lost in market cap today... hmmmmmmm...

watermock
04-16-2010, 01:23 PM
Slap on the wrist. Goldman scum runs the white house. Ruebin, Pauson, Geitner all came over from sachs.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-16-2010, 01:25 PM
I actually think more will come outo f this then people realize. If nothing else, its a horrible damaged reputation. It'll be interesting to watch it transpire. And i'm glad its happening, they are scum

Chris
04-16-2010, 01:27 PM
Goldman is famous for being all about Goldman, not the investors. This doesn't surprise. Strangely, about a quarter of my primary (elementary) school class work for them now.

loborugger
04-16-2010, 02:57 PM
It is treason, and I think something is going to come of it.

The chance of Goldman Sachs getting anything more than a token penalty or a few sacrificial lambs being offered up for 'justice' are about the same as Congress taking note of the economy and voting themselves a pay decrease of 1 to 2 percent.

Popps
04-16-2010, 03:06 PM
All the articles you could want to read on the situation:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GS

But let's be realistic, as much as Goldman DESERVES to get burnt to the ground, they buy and sell the SEC and this is just a token move by the SEC to look LESS corrupt.

Goldman (GS) is a screaming buy right now, imo.



Every once in a while, Rev.... you get it right.

I'm not sure I'd load up on Monday, but I'll be looking at leaps some time probably mid-next week. This thing needs to play out a bit, and the market is probably do to snip off 10%-15%, anyway.

But, every time it's gotten down to these levels, or near.. it's been an eventual payoff.

Popps
04-16-2010, 03:09 PM
GOOG also just got a 7% haircut after a solid earnings report. People should be watching that one for a time to get in, as well, imo.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2010, 03:12 PM
The chance of Goldman Sachs getting anything more than a token penalty or a few sacrificial lambs being offered up for 'justice' are about the same as Congress taking note of the economy and voting themselves a pay decrease of 1 to 2 percent.

It won't be a token guy. It'll be the guy that pulled the illegal **** in securities.

atomicbloke
04-16-2010, 04:05 PM
Wish our nation would move away from this casino economy and go back to the fundamentals of sustainable economic growth and progress - where value creation, both in terms of manufacturing and services are rewarded, and shift the focus away from the luckiest guy on the casino table calling the shots.

gtown
04-16-2010, 04:08 PM
This is all BS. This is the administration trying to gain populist sentiment during big bank earning season, which will be pretty damn good this quarter. BoA beat by a lot, as will the other banks, who took, and for most part repaid, their shares of TARP over the last year based on their respective agreements with the government.

gtown
04-16-2010, 04:16 PM
Wish our nation would move away from this casino economy and go back to the fundamentals of sustainable economic growth and progress - where value creation, both in terms of manufacturing and services are rewarded, and shift the focus away from the luckiest guy on the casino table calling the shots.

It's a global economy now. Most Americans wanted free trade because it enhances our choices at the store. But its a double edged sword.

If I can make higher profits manufacturing in China or Bangladesh than in the US, there is no way in hell I would have operations here. I mean, even if the Chinese were selling factory b-grade items out the backdoor, I would still make higher profits than if I had to pay ten times for an American worker that might only be twice as efficient (if even that).

Second, services are generally local. You can't sell haircuts abroad. They can only be done here. And with citizens and the government largely broke, there is a natural ceiling to how many services you can sell right now.

So you have what we have today.

ak1971
04-16-2010, 07:46 PM
Every once in a while, Rev.... you get it right.

I'm not sure I'd load up on Monday, but I'll be looking at leaps some time probably mid-next week. This thing needs to play out a bit, and the market is probably do to snip off 10%-15%, anyway.

But, every time it's gotten down to these levels, or near.. it's been an eventual payoff.

GS will be old news by Monday. VXX is probably the way to play a dump like this, but its probably already too late.

atomicbloke
04-16-2010, 07:57 PM
It's a global economy now. Most Americans wanted free trade because it enhances our choices at the store. But its a double edged sword.

If I can make higher profits manufacturing in China or Bangladesh than in the US, there is no way in hell I would have operations here. I mean, even if the Chinese were selling factory b-grade items out the backdoor, I would still make higher profits than if I had to pay ten times for an American worker that might only be twice as efficient (if even that).

Second, services are generally local. You can't sell haircuts abroad. They can only be done here. And with citizens and the government largely broke, there is a natural ceiling to how many services you can sell right now.

So you have what we have today.

I don't think you got my post.

I never complained about any of the things you mentioned.

I complained that our economy is set up in such a way that folks who provide the services or actually do the value creation work, do not get rewarded. The system rewards folks who are successful at manipulating the money in the form of derivatives, treasury bonds etc. True, they create liquidity, which is a service too. But it goes away from the fundamentals of a sustainable economic system.

For example, the Miracle of Hudson landing, when Captain Sullengerger saved all those lives by executing a difficult landing in the Hudson river.... what was his reward? A $40,000 pay cut. He worked for US Airways for over 30 years. The primary value creation job in an airline is flying planes right? But how did all those pilots get rewarded? By having their pensions accumulated over decades of service wiped out when the company was acquired by America West. The hotshot who managed the treasury for US Airways made way way more money that Captain Sullenberger can ever dream of. The guy who wrote the M&A deal made much more in commissions than Captan Sullenberger's yearly wages.

Anyways this is just an example. The economic system is set up such that it is far more likely to reward you if you are in to trading bonds and derivatives than if you involved in a value creating job or service yourself.

gtown
04-16-2010, 09:14 PM
I don't think you got my post.

I never complained about any of the things you mentioned.

I complained that our economy is set up in such a way that folks who provide the services or actually do the value creation work, do not get rewarded. The system rewards folks who are successful at manipulating the money in the form of derivatives, treasury bonds etc. True, they create liquidity, which is a service too. But it goes away from the fundamentals of a sustainable economic system.

For example, the Miracle of Hudson landing, when Captain Sullengerger saved all those lives by executing a difficult landing in the Hudson river.... what was his reward? A $40,000 pay cut. He worked for US Airways for over 30 years. The primary value creation job in an airline is flying planes right? But how did all those pilots get rewarded? By having their pensions accumulated over decades of service wiped out when the company was acquired by America West. The hotshot who managed the treasury for US Airways made way way more money that Captain Sullenberger can ever dream of. The guy who wrote the M&A deal made much more in commissions than Captan Sullenberger's yearly wages.

Anyways this is just an example. The economic system is set up such that it is far more likely to reward you if you are in to trading bonds and derivatives than if you involved in a value creating job or service yourself.

I get what you are saying. But I just can't remember a time when the C-level executive or the investment banker working mergers and acquisitions wasn't making ten times the more than the guy who is the engine of company. That's why there have always been stereotypes of Wall St fatcats Gordon Gekko etc.

It just seems bad now because Wall St is making profits and people are sitting unemployed for months to years on end. And the taxpayer had really no choice but to subsidize all of this because of the dire economy.

watermock
04-16-2010, 09:23 PM
And Wall Street isn't lending, it playing computer games.

There was no "credit score" when I grew up.

It wasn't created for us. It was created to rape us.

Goldman was telling customer to buy when they knew the bought a AAA rating thru bribe.\\

Then they leveraged their bets and insured them thru AIG.

It's not rocket science.

watermock
04-16-2010, 09:25 PM
15 million dolllar fine?

RU ****ing kidding me?

Try 100 billion.

These ****wads are supposed to be protecting us, not destroying us.

theAPAOps5
04-16-2010, 09:26 PM
A family member of mine asked how much do you want to bet Goldman probably shorted themselves in front of the announcement, because you know the SEC warned them, and recouped the fine by the close of the market today.

Taco John
04-16-2010, 09:33 PM
I don't think you got my post.

I never complained about any of the things you mentioned.

I complained that our economy is set up in such a way that folks who provide the services or actually do the value creation work, do not get rewarded. The system rewards folks who are successful at manipulating the money in the form of derivatives, treasury bonds etc. True, they create liquidity, which is a service too. But it goes away from the fundamentals of a sustainable economic system.

For example, the Miracle of Hudson landing, when Captain Sullengerger saved all those lives by executing a difficult landing in the Hudson river.... what was his reward? A $40,000 pay cut. He worked for US Airways for over 30 years. The primary value creation job in an airline is flying planes right? But how did all those pilots get rewarded? By having their pensions accumulated over decades of service wiped out when the company was acquired by America West. The hotshot who managed the treasury for US Airways made way way more money that Captain Sullenberger can ever dream of. The guy who wrote the M&A deal made much more in commissions than Captan Sullenberger's yearly wages.

Anyways this is just an example. The economic system is set up such that it is far more likely to reward you if you are in to trading bonds and derivatives than if you involved in a value creating job or service yourself.

You might be interested in listening to this audio essay by Ron Paul (http://media.mises.org/mp3/audiobooks/Paul_GoldPeaceProsperity.mp3) about this very thing...

rastaman
04-16-2010, 09:44 PM
It's a global economy now. Most Americans wanted free trade because it enhances our choices at the store. But its a double edged sword.

If I can make higher profits manufacturing in China or Bangladesh than in the US, there is no way in hell I would have operations here. I mean, even if the Chinese were selling factory b-grade items out the backdoor, I would still make higher profits than if I had to pay ten times for an American worker that might only be twice as efficient (if even that).

Second, services are generally local. You can't sell haircuts abroad. They can only be done here. And with citizens and the government largely broke, there is a natural ceiling to how many services you can sell right now.

So you have what we have today.


There is nothing wrong with U.S. corporations going overseas to make their products and set up shop the choice is theirs to make. However, the import-export tariff laws which were instituted from the 1700's - 1980 need to be brought back into place. Corporations can't use the excuse of Global trade inorder to be allowed to go to 3rd World Countries and exploit the labor and while paying those workers peanuts.

Meanwhile these American company's are allowed to import their products BACK into AMERICA w/o paying a tariff tax/fees. In other words the tariff tax that should be leveled on American companies re-importing their products to the U.S. should the same amount it would have cost to produced those products in America.

Archer81
04-16-2010, 09:51 PM
There is nothing wrong with U.S. corporations going overseas to make their products and set up shop the choice is theirs to make. However, the import-export tariff laws which were instituted from the 1700's - 1980 need to be brought back into place. Corporations can't use the excuse of Global trade inorder to be allowed to go to 3rd World Countries and exploit the labor and while paying those workers peanuts.

Meanwhile these American company's are allowed to import their products BACK into AMERICA w/o paying a tariff tax/fees. In other words the tariff tax that should be leveled on American companies re-importing their products to the U.S. should the same amount it would have cost to produced those products in America.


The tarrif is to protect American products here at home, not overseas. Why would we slap a tax on goods made by American companies overseas that are sold in America for Americans?

:Broncos:

watermock
04-16-2010, 10:43 PM
http://media.mises.org/mp3/audiobooks/Paul_GoldPeaceProsperity.mp3/.

TheReverend
04-17-2010, 09:33 AM
A family member of mine asked how much do you want to bet Goldman probably shorted themselves in front of the announcement, because you know the SEC warned them, and recouped the fine by the close of the market today.

Wouldn't surprise me a touch.

ScottXray
04-17-2010, 10:10 AM
The tarrif is to protect American products here at home, not overseas. Why would we slap a tax on goods made by American companies overseas that are sold in America for Americans?

:Broncos:

Because the goods made overseas, remove the possibility of Americans having a chance at the jobs to produce them. And those American companies are getting tax benefits also, as well as higher profits. Not much of that money comes back to Americans.

It results in exactly what we have today....no manufacturing in this country, and no way to put people to work here, except in mostly low end service based jobs. Even the high end service jobs (technicians, electricians, etc. (even doctors)) are being penetrated by lots of foreign imports as they will work cheaper here (to start at least ) than someone home grown. So companies arrange green cards and import their higher cost service people also, and also farm out their routine work (service call centers for instance ) to cheaper foreign workers. Everything ends up great for the company and
stock holders. But they give nothing back to the country other than cheap products. We are just a cash supply. When we run out of money, they just decide to move HQ to Dubai and find another customer (sucker).

Free trade is a lie. The costs come down the road, but the costs are there.
Just how many USA products are actually going out to other countries? Not many.

Popps
04-17-2010, 10:57 AM
B.
Just how many USA products are actually going out to other countries? Not many.

US is the world's largest economy and 3rd largest exporter of goods, if you count China... who obviously doesn't adhere to monetary or labor standards.

1 People's Republic of China $1,202,000,000,000 2009 est.
2 Germany $1,121,000,000,000 2009 est.
3 United States $1,057,700,000,000 2009 est.
4 Japan $581,000,000,000 2009 est.

loborugger
04-17-2010, 11:01 AM
US is the world's largest economy and 3rd largest exporter of goods, if you count China... who obviously doesn't adhere to monetary or labor standards.

1 People's Republic of China $1,202,000,000,000 2009 est.
2 Germany $1,121,000,000,000 2009 est.
3 United States $1,057,700,000,000 2009 est.
4 Japan $581,000,000,000 2009 est.

But look at what we export. Coal, chicken, and timber are (I think) our 3 biggest exports. Our country has become like a colony exporting unfinished products and importing finished products.

gtown
04-17-2010, 11:02 AM
There is nothing wrong with U.S. corporations going overseas to make their products and set up shop the choice is theirs to make. However, the import-export tariff laws which were instituted from the 1700's - 1980 need to be brought back into place. Corporations can't use the excuse of Global trade inorder to be allowed to go to 3rd World Countries and exploit the labor and while paying those workers peanuts.

Meanwhile these American company's are allowed to import their products BACK into AMERICA w/o paying a tariff tax/fees. In other words the tariff tax that should be leveled on American companies re-importing their products to the U.S. should the same amount it would have cost to produced those products in America.

I don't know how much time you have spent in developing countries, but the work offered by huge multinational corporations is often times the best work available. The wages, the potential to move up, and the benefits, despite being paltry are still better than the alternative.

And we can't put tariffs on goods imported into this country because those countries would just do the same thing to us in return. The only people who benefit from that type of regime is the government who collects the tariffs.

HAT
04-17-2010, 11:04 AM
What position does this Goldman Sachs kid play & why is he being heavily recruited by the South Eastern Conference?

???

Archer81
04-17-2010, 11:05 AM
But look at what we export. Coal, chicken, and timber are (I think) our 3 biggest exports. Our country has become like a colony exporting unfinished products and importing finished products.

The top ten categories of exports from USA to other countries in dollar value were:

1. Civilian aircraft $74 billion, up 1.3% from 2007 (5.7% of total US exports)

2. Semiconductors $50.6 billion, up 0.3% (3.9%)

3. Passenger cars $49.6 billion, up 13.3% (3.9%)

4. Medicinal, dental and pharmaceutical preparations $40.4 billion, up 15% (3.1%)

5. Other vehicle parts and accessories $39.9 billion, down 10.1% (3.1%)

6. Other industrial machinery $38.1 billion, down 0.6% (3%)

7. Fuel oil $34.9 billion, up 124.1% (2.7%)

8. Organic chemicals $33.4 billion, up 5.5% (2.6%)

9. Telecommunications equipment $32.9 billion, up 4.6% (2.6%)

10. Plastic materials $31.6 billion, up 8.7% (2.5%).



Read more: http://www.importexportbook.com/what-does-the-usa-import-and-export/#ixzz0lNV5guFq


:Broncos:

FADERPROOF
04-17-2010, 11:06 AM
The SEC already had 12 team and conference title game, why would they be going after anyone else?

loborugger
04-17-2010, 02:02 PM
The top ten categories of exports from USA to other countries in dollar value were:

1. Civilian aircraft $74 billion, up 1.3% from 2007 (5.7% of total US exports)

2. Semiconductors $50.6 billion, up 0.3% (3.9%)

3. Passenger cars $49.6 billion, up 13.3% (3.9%)

4. Medicinal, dental and pharmaceutical preparations $40.4 billion, up 15% (3.1%)

5. Other vehicle parts and accessories $39.9 billion, down 10.1% (3.1%)

6. Other industrial machinery $38.1 billion, down 0.6% (3%)

7. Fuel oil $34.9 billion, up 124.1% (2.7%)

8. Organic chemicals $33.4 billion, up 5.5% (2.6%)

9. Telecommunications equipment $32.9 billion, up 4.6% (2.6%)

10. Plastic materials $31.6 billion, up 8.7% (2.5%).



Read more: http://www.importexportbook.com/what-does-the-usa-import-and-export/#ixzz0lNV5guFq


:Broncos:

Well... never mind

TheReverend
04-20-2010, 07:17 AM
lol

Goldman Blows Past Expectations as Fraud Case Looms (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/finhome/topstories/apf/*http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/100420/us_earns_goldman_sachs.html?sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=)<cite>- AP</cite>Goldman Sachs Group Inc. said Tuesday its first-quarter earnings almost doubled to $3.3 billion as its trading business again surpassed the rest of the financial industry. It was a bit of good news for the bank as it faces a government civil fraud charge.


http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/finhome/topstories/apf;_ylt=AqgRW9rQujDQb5ggwMT39YW7YWsA;_ylu=X3oDMTE 1MTB2aG8xBHBvcwMyBHNlYwN0b3BTdG9yaWVzBHNsawNnb2xkb WFuYmxvd3M-/*http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/100420/us_earns_goldman_sachs.html?sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=


Crooked is crooked... but it makes money

broncosteven
04-20-2010, 11:52 AM
You might be interested in listening to this audio essay by Ron Paul (http://media.mises.org/mp3/audiobooks/Paul_GoldPeaceProsperity.mp3) about this very thing...

Is this one of those long Dagney Taggart speeches that I skipped from Atlas Shrugged?

Archer81
04-20-2010, 11:56 AM
Odd...the timing of the SEC ruling and the President pushing for "wall street reform" at the same time.

Wierd.

:Broncos: