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The MVPlaya
04-15-2010, 04:07 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=howard/100414

Slippery slope for a 'Hoodie' wannabe
Denver coach Josh McDaniels is following the Bill Belichick template, without the wins

Howard By Johnette Howard
Special to ESPN.com
Archive

Well, that oughta show Brandon Marshall.

[+] EnlargeJosh McDaniel
Doug Pensinger/Getty ImagesJosh McDaniels was overjoyed at Brandon Marshall's game-winning catch against the Cowboys in October. The joy didn't last.

Here's the bottom line on the All-Diva wideout's denouement in Denver after he tested the authority of hard-line Broncos coach Josh McDaniels until their differences became untenable: Despite making an admirable 101 catches last season, Marshall was suspended, maligned, accused of exaggerating an injury and ultimately benched by McDaniels for Denver's regular-season finale against Kansas City, a game the Broncos had to win to salvage a playoff spot and didn't, thereby finishing off a horrible late-season swoon that Marshall now won't have to talk about when he reports to training camp this July.

Because he was just traded.

To the fast-improving Miami Dolphins. And handed a four-year, $47.5 million contract that makes him the highest-paid receiver in NFL history.

McDaniels had better be right about this. There's really nothing more complicated to handicapping this trade -- and probably McDaniels' future in Denver -- than that.

McDaniels will get away with trading quarterback Jay Cutler and Marshall, the All-Pro duo that was supposed to blossom into Denver's version of Brady-to-Moss that McDaniels worked with in New England … as long as it works.

McDaniels is even right to argue that the 2010 and 2011 second-round picks Denver got for Marshall are a pretty good deal in the current market, considering that Pittsburgh got only a fifth-round pick from the Jets for its star wideout, Santonio Holmes, and Baltimore coughed up only third- and fourth-round picks to Arizona for Anquan Boldin.

The snag is that all the talk in Denver now about "someday" is a hard sell. Marshall is better than Boldin, Holmes or anyone Denver is likely to get in the draft. And Cutler, erratic as he was for Chicago last season, is still better right now than Kyle Orton or Brady Quinn, the replacement quarterbacks McDaniels has traded for since he and Cutler had their falling-out in March 2009.

Cutler was sent to the Bears a month later for Orton and three draft picks (two of them first-rounders). McDaniels and Marshall began their jousting in training camp. Before long, McDaniels had a tense relationship with tight end Tony Scheffler, whom McDaniels also benched for that must-win regular-season finale against Kansas City.

Brandon Marshall
Doug Pensinger/Getty ImagesMarshall caught 25 TD passes in four years for the Broncos. Does the addition-by-subtraction thinking really apply in his case?

That's a lot of falling-outs for anyone, especially a 33-year-old rookie NFL head coach whose team started fast last season but faded to a miserable 2-6 down the stretch, a swoon Broncos followers still dwell on in places such as FireJoshMcDanielsNow.com, a Web site that bills itself as "A Denver Broncos blog to keep an eye on new coach Josh McDaniels, who presided over a terrible first season that ended in a monumental collapse."

To quote a few posts: "What the hell is going on out there? … Another Bill Belichick Clone Control Freak Strikes Again. … What does Belichick Wannabe Moronic Control Freak Josh McDaniels Do?

"Hoodie Wannabe."

The wannabe charge comes up a lot.

See, McDaniels' challenge in Denver isn't just that he's peddling a long-term plan to a rabid football town yearning for short-term results. And his problem isn't just failing to get along with elite players, or having to sell the Broncos' rabid fan base (and perhaps even significant segments of his own locker room by now) on the idea that the slew of draft picks the Broncos have amassed in next week's draft is going to pay off, or the premise that a passing attack of Quinn-to-A Player to Be Named Later will turn out better than 10 years of Cutler-to-Marshall would have.

McDaniels has that Hoodie Problem, too.

Until he wins games like his Patriots mentor, Bill Belichick, McDaniels will continue to fight the wannabe rap. And he's not the first guy.

If you haven't noticed, the jury is still out on whether the Belichick formula works for anyone not named Belichick. The first three Belichick assistants who left the Patriots after their Super Bowl runs all flopped in their first head-coaching jobs -- Romeo Crennel with the Browns, Charlie Weis at Notre Dame, and Eric Mangini (first with the Jets, then again in his brutal first season in Cleveland).

Of the three, Mangini was the one who most devoutly copied Belichick's Kremlin-like approach (even after their downright Oedipal clash that turned into Spygate). He also wound up the most despised by his own organization. Weis was a close second.

But maybe all four Belichick disciples -- McDaniels included -- would have been smart to recognize that Belichick's formula didn't even work for Belichick at his first head-coaching stop.

[+] EnlargeBrandon Marshall and Josh McDaniels
Larry French/Getty ImagesMore often than not, Marshall and McDaniels had trouble seeing eye to eye.

Now, you could argue that's because Belichick didn't have Brady then. Or you could say what Belichick says: Mistakes were made. The moral might be that it's hard to demand the sort of respect and fealty from players that Belichick does before you have won like he has.

McDaniels has styled himself as a hard-liner, too -- which is another hard sell considering he looks more like a baby-faced coxswain for Harvard Eight than the head of a half-billion-dollar operation. Still, it's hard to ignore that Belichick seems to treat McDaniels differently from the other head coaches he has spun off. Mangini might as well be dead to Belichick now. When Crennel and Weis were cut loose from their jobs within the past year, Belichick didn't take his former coordinators back into the Patriots' fold.

Yet when McDaniels and the Broncos knocked off New England in Denver early last season -- a nail-biting win that sent McDaniels galloping and fist-pumping around the stadium with that copycat hoodie of his flapping in the breeze -- Belichick wasn't hacked off at all.

He actually made a point of going to the Broncos locker room and finding McDaniels to personally congratulate him.

Belichick seems to see something different, maybe even great, in McDaniels. Someday -- there's that word again -- maybe the rest of us will see it, too.

Johnette Howard is a contributing columnist to ESPN.com and the author of "The Rivals: Chris Evert vs. Martina Navratilova, Their Epic Duels and Extraordinary Friendship." She can be reached at jphinbox@yahoo.com.




Please blow up her email and show some dignity as Broncos fans...

jphinbox@yahoo.com

eddie mac
04-15-2010, 04:16 AM
Oh another ****ing female football analyst.

Stick to the first 4 letters love.

Bronco Rob
04-15-2010, 04:21 AM
Oh No!

Disney sports has an has an opinion.....


"Losers live in the past. Winners learn from the past and enjoy working in the present toward the future.”


Stick that in yer pipe an smoke it.....


/thread

The MVPlaya
04-15-2010, 04:26 AM
Oh No!

Disney sports has an has an opinion.....


"Losers live in the past. Winners learn from the past and enjoy working in the present toward the future.”


Stick that in yer pipe an smoke it.....


/thread

Still bitter about how I exposed your ass as being an idiot?

As far as your quote that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, the article, or anything related to what's going on presently (thus proving you aren't exactly the sharpest knife in the set)...

I had a very similar sentence in post 2 hours ago.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2805961#post2805961

Moving forward... it's about progression.

One step ahead of you, son.

chrisp
04-15-2010, 04:52 AM
You see, much as it has become an article of faith within the media to the point where its considered unquestionable, I just don't buy this "mcD is copying Belichick" line...

What I see is players questioning a young coach's authority and forcing him into public confrontations. Every time i see and hear Josh in the media he comes accross as passionate and determined, but open and approachable at the same time - i just don't see the tyrant that everybody talks about.

Perhaps becuase he is so high-pitched and babyfaced everybody takes umbrage with him excercising the basic minimum level of authority and control that a head coach is expected to maintain?

What - is he not allowed to discipline players untill he's won a superbowl?

Should he have said to Cutler "You are above trading and it was wrong of me to even have contemplated a trade - I'll make that statement public if you want."?

Should he have said to Marshall "You want a new contract? OK, never mind your off-field issues and the fact that you're a restricted free-agent, have as much money as you want - and take a practice off if you feel like it."?

Some people looked at McDaniels and thought that was exactly how he would have responded. They expected to be able to push the guy around and that is what's forced him to stand firm. But standing firm doesn't sit well with the public image of the kid coach in the hoodie. So now he's got this reputation as a mini-hitler.....

I think you'll find that NO head coach in the league would have been able to make the concessions to Cutler et al he was asked to and still maintain his authority and do his job. the head coach has to be in charge - its not a funtion of McDaniels psyche or Belichicks style, its a function of the job of a head coach in the national football league. If players choose to question that they must be faced down, and if they can't be tamed they must be shipped. That's the only way that McDaniels will ensure that it is HIS vision for the team which is implemented, and not his vision watered down by the demands of high-profile players..

watermock
04-15-2010, 04:53 AM
The biatch is wrong, because, ya know, the biatch is allways wrong.

How amusing,.

watermock
04-15-2010, 04:58 AM
"Hoodie Wannabe."



Ha!

ColoradoDarin
04-15-2010, 04:58 AM
You see, much as it has become an article of faith within the media to the point where its considered unquestionable, I just don't buy this "mcD is copying Belichick" line...

What I see is players questioning a young coach's authority and forcing him into public confrontations. Every time i see and hear Josh in the media he comes accross as passionate and determined, but open and approachable at the same time - i just don't see the tyrant that everybody talks about.

Perhaps becuase he is so high-pitched and babyfaced everybody takes umbrage with him excercising the basic minimum level of authority and control that a head coach is expected to maintain?

What - is he not allowed to discipline players untill he's won a superbowl?

Should he have said to Cutler "You are above trading and it was wrong of me to even have contemplated a trade - I'll make that statement public if you want."?

Should he have said to Marshall "You want a new contract? OK, never mind your off-field issues and the fact that you're a restricted free-agent, have as much money as you want - and take a practice off if you feel like it."?

Some people looked at McDaniels and thought that was exactly how he would have responded. They expected to be able to push the guy around and that is what's forced him to stand firm. But standing firm doesn't sit well with the public image of the kid coach in the hoodie. So now he's got this reputation as a mini-hitler.....

I think you'll find that NO head coach in the league would have been able to make the concessions to Cutler et al he was asked to and still maintain his authority and do his job. the head coach has to be in charge - its not a funtion of McDaniels psyche or Belichicks style, its a function of the job of a head coach in the national football league. If players choose to question that they must be faced down, and if they can't be tamed they must be shipped. That's the only way that McDaniels will ensure that it is HIS vision for the team which is implemented, and not his vision watered down by the demands of high-profile players..

This.

ALL this.

watermock
04-15-2010, 05:03 AM
[QUOTE][ think you'll find that NO head coach in the league would have been able to make the concessions to Cutler et al he was asked to and still maintain his authority and do his job. the head coach has to be in charge - its not a funtion of McDaniels psyche or Belichicks style, its a function of the job of a head coach in the national football league. If players choose to question that they must be faced down, and if they can't be tamed they must be shipped. That's the only way that McDaniels will ensure that it is HIS vision for the team which is implemented, and not his vision watered down by the demands of high-profile players..

/QUOTE]

How amusing.

TheReverend
04-15-2010, 05:06 AM
Oh another ****ing female football analyst.

Stick to the first 4 letters love.

At first I was like, "foot"? Then my eyes widened and I lol'd.

chrisp
04-15-2010, 05:07 AM
How amusing.

Wow - such searing insight. I'm really chastened by your wisdom in the face of my ill-thought-out ramblings....





(DAMMIT where's that sarcasm smilie.......?)

Dedhed
04-15-2010, 05:14 AM
I don't get the "someday" take. In his first year we saw zero drop-off in wins and losses in the transition from Shanahan, so I'm not sure how you make the argument that the fans are going to have to struggle through a torturous period to get to someday.

Someday has already arrived, and the present and future look pretty bright. "Someday" would be better used to describe Shanahan's last 10 years in Denver. "Someday we'll get back to the playoffs and make a SB run."

dbfan21
04-15-2010, 05:32 AM
Did you see her picture on ESPN? Good Lord! It's a dude with a wig on. Where the heck do they find these people?

TotallyScrewed
04-15-2010, 05:38 AM
You're right. Someday has arrived. No more excuses. Improve over 8-8. No more total collapses allowed.

The past is past and the future looms large.

A head coach has got to be in charge, no doubt. A head coach has got to be smart and at this level...one mistake can break you. We won't know until the year plays out but McD and Bowlen have set this year up to be a huge turning point. There's no room for "steady as she goes"..."a couple of minor tweeks here and there". They've made their "locker room adjustment" and it had better pay dividends.

watermock
04-15-2010, 05:39 AM
Did you see her picture on ESPN? Good Lord! It's a dude with a wig on. Where the heck do they find these people?


Jesus.


You bought it?

This team is so ****ed up noone knows up from down.

That is a FACT.

LRtagger
04-15-2010, 05:40 AM
http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?oid=AAAAAQAQuZ60zbdcDocwt5JA0dV5ygAAAArRKB 96d8P4Yw7H2z581K-3

DenverBrit
04-15-2010, 06:12 AM
http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?oid=AAAAAQAQuZ60zbdcDocwt5JA0dV5ygAAAArRKB 96d8P4Yw7H2z581K-3

Johnette Howard is a contributing columnist to ESPN.com and the author of "The Rivals: Chris Evert vs. Martina Navratilova, Their Epic Duels and Extraordinary Friendship."

She should stick to 'Romance novels.'

Man-Goblin
04-15-2010, 06:14 AM
http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?oid=AAAAAQAQuZ60zbdcDocwt5JA0dV5ygAAAArRKB 96d8P4Yw7H2z581K-3

That's a man, baby!!!

scorpio
04-15-2010, 06:19 AM
I'm 12 and what is a b**** slam

NYC Bronco
04-15-2010, 06:48 AM
At first I was like, "foot"? Then my eyes widened and I lol'd.


same here Ha!

Gob
04-15-2010, 06:52 AM
You see, much as it has become an article of faith within the media to the point where its considered unquestionable, I just don't buy this "mcD is copying Belichick" line...

What I see is players questioning a young coach's authority and forcing him into public confrontations. Every time i see and hear Josh in the media he comes accross as passionate and determined, but open and approachable at the same time - i just don't see the tyrant that everybody talks about.

Perhaps becuase he is so high-pitched and babyfaced everybody takes umbrage with him excercising the basic minimum level of authority and control that a head coach is expected to maintain?

What - is he not allowed to discipline players untill he's won a superbowl?

Should he have said to Cutler "You are above trading and it was wrong of me to even have contemplated a trade - I'll make that statement public if you want."?

Should he have said to Marshall "You want a new contract? OK, never mind your off-field issues and the fact that you're a restricted free-agent, have as much money as you want - and take a practice off if you feel like it."?

Some people looked at McDaniels and thought that was exactly how he would have responded. They expected to be able to push the guy around and that is what's forced him to stand firm. But standing firm doesn't sit well with the public image of the kid coach in the hoodie. So now he's got this reputation as a mini-hitler.....

I think you'll find that NO head coach in the league would have been able to make the concessions to Cutler et al he was asked to and still maintain his authority and do his job. the head coach has to be in charge - its not a funtion of McDaniels psyche or Belichicks style, its a function of the job of a head coach in the national football league. If players choose to question that they must be faced down, and if they can't be tamed they must be shipped. That's the only way that McDaniels will ensure that it is HIS vision for the team which is implemented, and not his vision watered down by the demands of high-profile players..

Personally, I would rather think he is copying the Patriots (the only real experience he has, and he needs to draw on all the experience he can get right now) rather then he is too young/ high pitched/ babyfaced that players have a hard time respecting him and these situations will repeat for years. All the best leaders are respected, but the best ones command that respect rather then demand it and constantly having to fight for it.

Steve Sewell
04-15-2010, 06:55 AM
That article was hilarious. She's like the female version of Rick Reilly.

You know...the writer that doesn't know anything about a topic but need to **** out a story quick?

cmhargrove
04-15-2010, 06:57 AM
Out of Bill Belichiks first six seasons as a head coach - he only had one season with a winning record.

If I can Wiki that in ten seconds, shouldn't a "journalist" be able to?

Rohirrim
04-15-2010, 07:11 AM
Coaches with QBs named Montana become "Innovators." Coaches with QBs named Elway become "Masterminds." Coaches with QBs named Tom Brady become "Geniuses." See a pattern here?

cmhargrove
04-15-2010, 07:13 AM
Coaches with QBs named Montana become "Innovators." Coaches with QBs named Elway become "Masterminds." Coaches with QBs named Tom Brady become "Geniuses." See a pattern here?

Coaches with Cutler = fired?

Archer81
04-15-2010, 07:15 AM
More evidence that neither the NFLN or ESPN really pays any attention to teams beyond what they are being tweeted...

SO what happens when this team goes 11-5 without the awesome skills of Cutler or Marshall, or the godly performances of Hillis and Scheffler?...

:Broncos:

Steve Sewell
04-15-2010, 07:17 AM
Out of Bill Belichiks first six seasons as a head coach - he only had one season with a winning record.

If I can Wiki that in ten seconds, shouldn't a "journalist" be able to?

She's an editorialist, at least in the case of this article. It seems as if she took off her strap-on, picked up this topic, and wrote an opinion piece without knowing much of anything about the Broncos, McDaniel, or the situation.

Archer81
04-15-2010, 07:20 AM
She's an editorialist, at least in the case of this article. It seems as if she took off her strap-on, picked up this topic, and wrote an opinion piece without knowing much of anything about the Broncos, McDaniel, or the situation.


It can't be comfortable to wear a strap-on all day. We should ask bob and see if thats possible.


:Broncos:

baja
04-15-2010, 07:21 AM
You see, much as it has become an article of faith within the media to the point where its considered unquestionable, I just don't buy this "mcD is copying Belichick" line...

What I see is players questioning a young coach's authority and forcing him into public confrontations. Every time i see and hear Josh in the media he comes accross as passionate and determined, but open and approachable at the same time - i just don't see the tyrant that everybody talks about.

Perhaps becuase he is so high-pitched and babyfaced everybody takes umbrage with him excercising the basic minimum level of authority and control that a head coach is expected to maintain?

What - is he not allowed to discipline players untill he's won a superbowl?

Should he have said to Cutler "You are above trading and it was wrong of me to even have contemplated a trade - I'll make that statement public if you want."?

Should he have said to Marshall "You want a new contract? OK, never mind your off-field issues and the fact that you're a restricted free-agent, have as much money as you want - and take a practice off if you feel like it."?

Some people looked at McDaniels and thought that was exactly how he would have responded. They expected to be able to push the guy around and that is what's forced him to stand firm. But standing firm doesn't sit well with the public image of the kid coach in the hoodie. So now he's got this reputation as a mini-hitler.....

I think you'll find that NO head coach in the league would have been able to make the concessions to Cutler et al he was asked to and still maintain his authority and do his job. the head coach has to be in charge - its not a funtion of McDaniels psyche or Belichicks style, its a function of the job of a head coach in the national football league. If players choose to question that they must be faced down, and if they can't be tamed they must be shipped. That's the only way that McDaniels will ensure that it is HIS vision for the team which is implemented, and not his vision watered down by the demands of high-profile players..

Good post - hope everyone reads it

baja
04-15-2010, 07:23 AM
[QUOTE][ think you'll find that NO head coach in the league would have been able to make the concessions to Cutler et al he was asked to and still maintain his authority and do his job. the head coach has to be in charge - its not a funtion of McDaniels psyche or Belichicks style, its a function of the job of a head coach in the national football league. If players choose to question that they must be faced down, and if they can't be tamed they must be shipped. That's the only way that McDaniels will ensure that it is HIS vision for the team which is implemented, and not his vision watered down by the demands of high-profile players..

/QUOTE]

How amusing.

You used to be original now you sound like my neighbors parrot.

Beantown Bronco
04-15-2010, 07:23 AM
By Johnette Howard
Special to ESPN.com
Archive

Because he was just traded.

To the fast-improving Miami Dolphins.

2008 record 11-5
2009 record 7-9

"Fast improving" probably isn't the description I would use. Where does she come up with this stuff? Seriously.

lex
04-15-2010, 07:24 AM
Another person who this adversely affects is Bowlen. Its been said he wants to make it in the hall of fame. If this blows up in his face and this regime doesnt work, its a huge stain on his reputation.

He should have stuck to his word and had a real GM. He shouldnt have let Joe Hazelwood run his team.

lostknight
04-15-2010, 07:25 AM
Wow. My respect for Broncos fans just took another huge hit. Seriously, what are we, sexist thugs in trailers demanding that the bitch stay away from sports, and do dishes?

WolfpackGuy
04-15-2010, 07:26 AM
2008 record 11-5
2009 record 7-9

"Fast improving" probably isn't the description I would use. Where does she come up with this stuff? Seriously.

She/he/it may be going back to the 1-15 season.

They were a complete mess at the end of 2007.

Archer81
04-15-2010, 07:26 AM
Wow. My respect for Broncos fans just took another huge hit. Seriously, what are we, sexist thugs in trailers demanding that the b**** stay away from sports, and do dishes?


Yes.


:Broncos:

baja
04-15-2010, 07:27 AM
Coaches with Cutler = fired?


LOL good one

baja
04-15-2010, 07:30 AM
Wow. My respect for Broncos fans just took another huge hit. Seriously, what are we, sexist thugs in trailers demanding that the b**** stay away from sports, and do dishes?

Well she really doesn't have to do the dishes.

Archer81
04-15-2010, 07:30 AM
Well she really doesn't have to do the dishes.


Bitches runnin wild man...


:Broncos:

baja
04-15-2010, 07:33 AM
b****es runnin wild man...


:Broncos:

If she needs to get her hands in soapy water than I'd let her wash my balls. :D

Crap article she wrote.

lostknight
04-15-2010, 07:40 AM
He should have stuck to his word and had a real GM. He shouldnt have let Joe Hazelwood run his team.

The point at which this team started to collapse wasn't with firing Mike, and hiring Josh, it was firing the Goodman's and hiring Josh.

SouthStndJunkie
04-15-2010, 07:41 AM
http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?oid=AAAAAQAQuZ60zbdcDocwt5JA0dV5ygAAAArRKB 96d8P4Yw7H2z581K-3

Kind of looks a little bit like Shanny in drag with a wig.

Paladin
04-15-2010, 07:42 AM
[QUOTE=watermock;2806034]

You used to be original now you sound like my neighbors parrot.

H3ll, he taught your neighbors' iarrot evertyhing he knows.....

TheReverend
04-15-2010, 07:43 AM
Wow. My respect for Broncos fans just took another huge hit. Seriously, what are we, sexist thugs in trailers demanding that the b**** stay away from sports, and do dishes?

Is ironic the proper word?

Paladin
04-15-2010, 07:46 AM
Wow. My respect for Broncos fans just took another huge hit. Seriously, what are we, sexist thugs in trailers demanding that the b**** stay away from sports, and do dishes?

well......that........might be one way to put it..........


but you'd be wrong.......



Some here, including you, are not that mature.........

watermock
04-15-2010, 07:51 AM
I only "Parrot" the conc Baja.

Joshie is a joke.

Now we are an old expansion team.

Steve Sewell
04-15-2010, 07:53 AM
The point at which this team started to collapse wasn't with firing Mike, and hiring Josh, it was firing the Goodman's and hiring Josh.


You're a funny one. Do you characterize the last 3 years of Shanahan's tenure as successful?

What are the Goodmans up to now, curing cancer?

Tombstone RJ
04-15-2010, 08:10 AM
Wow. My respect for Broncos fans just took another huge hit. Seriously, what are we, sexist thugs in trailers demanding that the b**** stay away from sports, and do dishes?

She's the one who set herself up. If she's gonna critisize the Broncos, yet have no experience ever playing the game, and probably little to no long time experience covering the game, then she has got to expect some backlash.

TonyR
04-15-2010, 08:16 AM
What are the Goodmans up to now, curing cancer?

They still don't have jobs, do they? I wonder why Shanny didn't bring them to D.C.? Perhaps they're not as wonderful as some believe?

lostknight
04-15-2010, 08:22 AM
Wow...

Just wow....

We've become Raiders fans.

In every sense of the word.

Archer81
04-15-2010, 08:23 AM
Wow...

Just wow....

We've become Raiders fans.

In every sense of the word.


Who is we? You have a mouse in your pocket?


:Broncos:

Garcia Bronco
04-15-2010, 08:23 AM
Johnette Howard is a contributing columnist to ESPN.com and the author of "The Rivals: Chris Evert vs. Martina Navratilova, Their Epic Duels and Extraordinary Friendship."

She should stick to 'Romance novels.'

Those Tennis matches were Epic though

Steve Sewell
04-15-2010, 08:33 AM
Wow...

Just wow....

We've become Raiders fans.

In every sense of the word.

You have become a Raider fan, apparently. The garbage that you post has no basis in fact or reality, and typically has no coherent reasoning or thought process to back it up. You are one of those "herez mah opinyun an if u dont agree then u r and idiot" posters, which is what you typically find on the Raider boards.

DawnBTVS
04-15-2010, 08:57 AM
I love that she mentions how the Belichick coaching tree all "flopped"...

Eric Mangini: Took over a 4-12 team and went 10-6 in his first season. Went 4-12 in Year 2 and followed that up with a 9-7 where Brett Favre basically killed the second half. Really not a bad tenure with the Jets and IMO I think he kind of got hosed considering he was stuck with an "in his ways" Brett Favre. Rumors were he wanted Favre benched during that 2nd half spiral. Then Mangini goes to Cleveland and finishes 5-11, a 1 win improvement from 2008. 2010 we'll see what happens.

Romeo Crennel: Yeah, he struggled. He went 6-10, 4-12, but had a winning season at 10-6, and finished his tenure with a 4-12 record when Derek Anderson reverted from his fluke year.

Charlie Weis: Took over a 6-6 team with most of the same players and went 9-3. Went 10-3 the next year and struggled to records of 3-9, 7-6, and 6-6.

All 3 coaches had at least one season with 10 wins... which is a pretty damn good thing to accomplish and it's no surprise that Belichick performed much like them in his first coaching stint. I think Mangini can improve the Browns a bit if he can get "his" players into his system.

It's not like these guys were all going 3-13 or 4-12 year after year. Even McDaniels has gone 8-8 in his first season. Worth pointing out is their generally short tenures. Mangini was with the Jets for 3 seasons and will be with the Browns for 2. Crennel was with the Browns for 4 seasons. Weis was with Notre Dame for 5 seasons.

Bill Parcells wasn't any great shakes his first 3 seasons (3-12, 9-7, 10-6). Bill Walsh went 2-14, 6-10, 13-3, 10-6 in his first 4 full seasons. Jeff Fisher went 7-9, 8-8, 8-8, 8-8 his first 4 seasons.

It's worth giving a coach more than 1 or even 2 seasons if they start off going 6-10 (or 8-8 in McDaniels' case). Not every great coach has come in and immediately started winning 10+ games.

Steve Sewell
04-15-2010, 09:09 AM
I love that she mentions how the Belichick coaching tree all "flopped"...

Eric Mangini: Took over a 4-12 team and went 10-6 in his first season. Went 4-12 in Year 2 and followed that up with a 9-7 where Brett Favre basically killed the second half. Really not a bad tenure with the Jets and IMO I think he kind of got hosed considering he was stuck with an "in his ways" Brett Favre. Rumors were he wanted Favre benched during that 2nd half spiral. Then Mangini goes to Cleveland and finishes 5-11, a 1 win improvement from 2008. 2010 we'll see what happens.

Romeo Crennel: Yeah, he struggled. He went 6-10, 4-12, but had a winning season at 10-6, and finished his tenure with a 4-12 record when Derek Anderson reverted from his fluke year.

Charlie Weis: Took over a 6-6 team with most of the same players and went 9-3. Went 10-3 the next year and struggled to records of 3-9, 7-6, and 6-6.

All 3 coaches had at least one season with 10 wins... which is a pretty damn good thing to accomplish and it's no surprise that Belichick performed much like them in his first coaching stint. I think Mangini can improve the Browns a bit if he can get "his" players into his system.

It's not like these guys were all going 3-13 or 4-12 year after year. Even McDaniels has gone 8-8 in his first season.

I agree with you on Mangini, I think a lot of his difficulties have been circumstantial and that he's actually a good coach. Favre essentially got him fired from NYJ, and the Browns are just a cesspool of fail as an organization. It's pretty telling that Holmgren kept him on as the head coach.

Now Crennel is simply not suited to be a head coach. I doubt you will ever see him in that role again. He's a coordinator. He seems really timid and pushover personality-wise. He reminds me of Wade Phillips believe it or not.

Charlie Weiss is a failure no matter how you slice it. I saw you reference the records of his teams at ND. I'm sorry but there is no excuse for that kind of failure at a place like Notre Dame. That program has more financial support than an NFL team. 3-9, 6-6, etc are just terrible considering the resources provided, and it can be argued that his failure is even more abject because his really bad seasons came with players that he actually recruited.

Tombstone RJ
04-15-2010, 09:13 AM
I love that she mentions how the Belichick coaching tree all "flopped"...

Eric Mangini: Took over a 4-12 team and went 10-6 in his first season. Went 4-12 in Year 2 and followed that up with a 9-7 where Brett Favre basically killed the second half. Really not a bad tenure with the Jets and IMO I think he kind of got hosed considering he was stuck with an "in his ways" Brett Favre. Rumors were he wanted Favre benched during that 2nd half spiral. Then Mangini goes to Cleveland and finishes 5-11, a 1 win improvement from 2008. 2010 we'll see what happens.

Romeo Crennel: Yeah, he struggled. He went 6-10, 4-12, but had a winning season at 10-6, and finished his tenure with a 4-12 record when Derek Anderson reverted from his fluke year.

Charlie Weis: Took over a 6-6 team with most of the same players and went 9-3. Went 10-3 the next year and struggled to records of 3-9, 7-6, and 6-6.

All 3 coaches had at least one season with 10 wins... which is a pretty damn good thing to accomplish and it's no surprise that Belichick performed much like them in his first coaching stint. I think Mangini can improve the Browns a bit if he can get "his" players into his system.

It's not like these guys were all going 3-13 or 4-12 year after year. Even McDaniels has gone 8-8 in his first season. Worth pointing out is their generally short tenures. Mangini was with the Jets for 3 seasons and will be with the Browns for 2. Crennel was with the Browns for 4 seasons. Weis was with Notre Dame for 5 seasons.

Bill Parcells wasn't any great shakes his first 3 seasons (3-12, 9-7, 10-6). Bill Walsh went 2-14, 6-10, 13-3, 10-6 in his first 4 full seasons. Jeff Fisher went 7-9, 8-8, 8-8, 8-8 his first 4 seasons.

It's worth giving a coach more than 1 or even 2 seasons if they start off going 6-10 (or 8-8 in McDaniels' case). Not every great coach has come in and immediately started winning 10+ games.

The thing about Parcells and Walsh is that they benefitted from some good drafts. We shall see if McD has the ability to bring in talented players that can execute his system successfully.

He can't expect to have a long tenure with bad drafts. These drafts have to pay off. The other thing is he has to score on his FA acquisitions too. Bellichek is supreme in finding the right FAs to bring in and hopefull, if McD did learn anything, it's how to find the right players for your system.

DenverBrit
04-15-2010, 09:16 AM
Those Tennis matches were Epic though

They were indeed.

DawnBTVS
04-15-2010, 09:25 AM
The thing about Parcells and Walsh is that they benefitted from some good drafts. We shall see if McD has the ability to bring in talented players that can execute his system successfully.

He can't expect to have a long tenure with bad drafts. These drafts have to pay off. The other thing is he has to score on his FA acquisitions too. Bellichek is supreme in finding the right FAs to bring in and hopefull, if McD did learn anything, it's how to find the right players for your system.

Yeah although it's interesting because Belichick got lucky with Tom Brady (they also weren't that prepared for the 2000 Draft as he and Pioli came to the Patriots in February of that year).

I think the FA acquisitions he made last year showed that (hopefully) McDaniels has enough experience to know which FAs will fit his sytem and which won't. It seems like he has good rapport with GM Xanders.

Another promising sign is that he hasn't gotten a ton of FAs outside of the "Big 3" along the DLine. It shows McDaniels isn't afraid to keep upgrading his roster but also won't let his moves push out the younger players for the sake of making a move.

I think a lot of us, myself included, are overlooking the important pick up of RB JJ Arrington. He averaged a 25.8 YPR on 36 kick returns in 2008 for Arizona. He could compete with WR Kenny McKinley for return duties.

For comparison, Eddie Royal averaged a 23.9 YPR on 26 kick returns last year.

lex
04-15-2010, 09:29 AM
Wow, it never fails. Anytime someone says anything bad about the current Broncos regime, it brings out cavemen with clubs to boohoo about it. Not everyone contorts around accepting everything the current regime does...and most certainly not the national media.

Who here was dumb enough to think trading Marshall wouldnt be heavily criticized? Come on! Put your clubs down and raise your hands.

Steve Sewell
04-15-2010, 09:30 AM
Who hear was dumb enough to think

irony

lex
04-15-2010, 09:35 AM
irony

LOL. Yeah, well the irony is that you think I dont know any better. I know it should be "here" and not "hear". Im not seeing the irony. A typo...wow!


Here's a good example of caveman with a club:

You have become a Raider fan, apparently. The garbage that you post has no basis in fact or reality, and typically has no coherent reasoning or thought process to back it up. You are one of those "herez mah opinyun an if u dont agree then u r and idiot" posters, which is what you typically find on the Raider boards.

The "I know you are but what am I" are really creative.

Archer81
04-15-2010, 09:40 AM
Who hear was dumb enough to think trading Marshall wouldnt be heavily criticized? Come on! Put your clubs down and raise your hands.


Oh English...so widely spoken but oh so abused...

To hear is to aknowledge a sound.

Here is denoting a location.

Carry on, my wayward son.


:Broncos:

baja
04-15-2010, 09:46 AM
You're a funny one. Do you characterize the last 3 years of Shanahan's tenure as successful?

What are the Goodmans up to now, curing cancer?

Actually I think the are curing fine Corinthian leather for Ricardo Montalbán

lex
04-15-2010, 09:46 AM
Oh English...so widely spoken but oh so abused...

To hear is to aknowledge a sound.

Here is denoting a location.

Carry on, my wayward son.


:Broncos:

Time well spent.

DenverBrit
04-15-2010, 09:46 AM
LOL. Yeah, well the irony is that you think I dont know any better. I know it should be "here" and not "hear". Im not seeing the irony. A typo...wow!


Here's a good example of caveman with a club:



The "I know you are but what am I" are really creative.

No, he's correct.

Irony was: "Who hear is dumb enough". An ironic misspelling.

Fcku you...... is a typo.

Here's another example of an ironic misspelling:

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/moran-7512.jpg

Archer81
04-15-2010, 09:48 AM
Time well spent.


Yes it is.

:Broncos:

lex
04-15-2010, 09:54 AM
No, he's correct.

Irony was: "Who hear is dumb enough". An ironic misspelling.

Fcku you...... is a typo.

So, you actually think I dont know the correct use of "hear" vs. "here"? Youre useless hampsterwheeling about what is a typo and what isnt doesnt really take away from the suggestion that someone is implying that I dont know the correct use of "hear".

Besides, here you go, dip****:

Noun 1. typo - a mistake in printed matter resulting from mechanical failures of some kind
erratum, literal, literal error, misprint, typographical error
mistake, error - part of a statement that is not correct; "the book was full of errors"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/typo

The same thing happened the last time you tried to correct me. Youd think that you would have learned by now. For someone who is English, youre not very good at it.

Triplelefthook
04-15-2010, 09:56 AM
one thing is for certain - McDaniels is putting it all out there. If he doesn't get results this year or produce something that can VERY easily be seen as translating into results the following year he will be gone and he will have a difficult time finding a new head coaching job for a while, in my opinion.

as for now, i am the ultimate on-the-fence fan... i would have preferred to have kept Cutler and Marshall, but i think mcDaniels is doing an excellent job building the team and i think we will have a good season this year

ColoradoDarin
04-15-2010, 10:02 AM
No, he's correct.

Irony was: "Who hear is dumb enough". An ironic misspelling.

Fcku you...... is a typo.

Here's another example of an ironic misspelling:

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/moran-7512.jpg

Actually Lex is dumber than that guy. He was protesting Jim Moran (D-VA?), it's a pretty clever sign in that case (don't ask me why there was a protest in MO about a VA congressman...). Out of context he looks like a, well, moron.

DenverBrit
04-15-2010, 10:04 AM
So, you actually think I dont know the correct use of "hear" vs. "here"? Youre useless hampsterwheeling about what is a typo and what isnt doesnt really take away from the suggestion that someone is implying that I dont know the correct use of "hear".

Besides, here you go, dip****:



http://www.thefreedictionary.com/typo

The same thing happened the last time you tried to correct me. Youd think that you would learn by now. For someone who is English, youre not very good at it.

You really are as dumb as a post, even for a bean counter.

You don't know the difference between an ironic misspelling and a typo?? I gave you two examples and you're still clueless. Moran!! (clue)

The same thing happened the last time you tried to correct me.

You've made similar claims before. Yeah, right! Hilarious!

You're not only stupid, you're delusional.

baja
04-15-2010, 10:04 AM
So, you actually think I dont know the correct use of "hear" vs. "here"? Youre useless hampsterwheeling about what is a typo and what isnt doesnt really take away from the suggestion that someone is implying that I dont know the correct use of "hear".

Besides, here you go, dip****:



http://www.thefreedictionary.com/typo

The same thing happened the last time you tried to correct me. Youd think that you would have learned by now. For someone who is English, <b>youre</b> not very good at it.

It's "You're" but carry on. ;D

Archer81
04-15-2010, 10:04 AM
one thing is for certain - McDaniels is putting it all out there. If he doesn't get results this year or produce something that can VERY easily be seen as translating into results the following year he will be gone and he will have a difficult time finding a new head coaching job for a while, in my opinion.

as for now, i am the ultimate on-the-fence fan... i would have preferred to have kept Cutler and Marshall, but i think mcDaniels is doing an excellent job building the team and i think we will have a good season this year


Recent posts from a Bowlen interview makes it obvious Josh is going to get more than 2 seasons.

:Broncos:

lex
04-15-2010, 10:06 AM
You really are as dumb as a post, even for a bean counter.

You don't know the difference between an ironic misspelling and a typo?? I gave you two examples and you're still clueless. Moran!! (clue)



You've made similar claims before. Yeah, right! Hilarious!

You're not only stupid, you're delusional.


Its not really that as much as its that you just say stuff without being able to back it up. And youre also wrong a lot.

Like I said, for someone who is English, youre really poor at it.

lex
04-15-2010, 10:07 AM
It's "You're" but carry on. ;D

Way to chase after crumbs.

DenverBrit
04-15-2010, 10:08 AM
Actually Lex is dumber than that guy. He was protesting Jim Moran (D-VA?), it's a pretty clever sign in that case (don't ask me why there was a protest in MO about a VA congressman...). Out of context he looks like a, well, moron.

I didn't know that, thanks. Good play on words.

Lex on the other hand is a 'clueless moran'. (see Lex, another ironic misspelling)

baja
04-15-2010, 10:08 AM
Recent posts from a Bowlen interview makes it obvious Josh is going to get more than 2 seasons.

:Broncos:

If you believe that than I guess you think Shanahan decided he needed a year off from his life coaching job.

DenverBrit
04-15-2010, 10:10 AM
Its not really that as much as its that you just say stuff without being able to back it up. And youre also wrong a lot.

Like I said, for someone who is English, youre really poor at it.

Go find some example and we'll see about correcting my errors.

Steve Sewell
04-15-2010, 10:10 AM
LOL. Yeah, well the irony is that you think I dont know any better. I know it should be "here" and not "hear". Im not seeing the irony. A typo...wow!


Here's a good example of caveman with a club:



The "I know you are but what am I" are really creative.

Do you know what irony is? I don't think you do, especially since you refer to the post you quoted of mine as being a "caveman with a club" example. I suppose my response to the poster who commented that we are all becoming Raider fans is a result of my bemusement over the irony of his "revelation", given his style of posting in a baseless/thoughtless manner. Thanks for pointing that out.

baja
04-15-2010, 10:11 AM
Way to chase after crumbs.

Normally I would not think twice about your grammar errors but in this case in was in a post where you were chastising someone for grammar errors. Have you looked up irony yet lex?

DenverBrit
04-15-2010, 10:12 AM
Its not really that as much as its that you just say stuff without being able to back it up. And youre also wrong a lot.

Like I said, for someone who is English, youre really poor at it.

You're having difficulty with irony again. Hilarious!

lex
04-15-2010, 10:14 AM
I didn't know that, thanks. Good play on words.

Lex on the other hand is a 'clueless moran'. (see Lex, another ironic misspelling)

Its funny. I have a reference and you make up your own terminology. BTW, what ironic is how a guy who thinks only a transpositional error is a typo basically is suggesting someone else is stupid.

Whats even more ironic is how someone who has tried to correct someone before only to look bad will do so again and hamsterwheel as recourse.

Its cool that you make stuff up and then call other people delusional. Thats rich.

lex
04-15-2010, 10:19 AM
Do you know what irony is? I don't think you do, especially since you refer to the post you quoted of mine as being a "caveman with a club" example. I suppose my response to the poster who commented that we are all becoming Raider fans is a result of my bemusement over the irony of his "revelation", given his style of posting in a baseless/thoughtless manner. Thanks for pointing that out.

Yeah, I know what irony is but for it to be in effect, there has to be some correlation between two points. There was none. You were suggesting that typos mean youre stupid, which is flawed. So, your use of the word "irony" wasnt really correct. I think its more ironic for you to not understand this while accusing someone else of being stupid.

lex
04-15-2010, 10:23 AM
Normally I would not think twice about your grammar errors but in this case in was in a post where you were chastising someone for grammar errors. Have you looked up irony yet lex?

Awesome. As if Brit wasnt enough, there's one more monkey humping a football. Have fun.

baja
04-15-2010, 10:27 AM
Its funny. I have a reference and you make up your own terminology. BTW, what ironic is how a guy who thinks only a transpositional error is a typo basically is suggesting someone else is stupid.

<b>Whats even more ironic is how someone who has tried to correct someone before only to look bad will do so again and hamsterwheel as recourse. </b>

Its cool that you make stuff up and then call other people delusional. Thats rich.

Looks like you need to look up "syntax" as well.

Hint it's not a tax on sin.

DenverBrit
04-15-2010, 10:28 AM
Its funny. I have a reference and you make up your own terminology. BTW, what ironic is how a guy who thinks only a transpositional error is a typo basically is suggesting someone else is stupid.
Christ you're getting worse.

You mean Transposition error:

What Does Transposition Error Mean?
A simple error of data entry. Transposition errors occur when two digits that are either individual or part of a larger sequence of numbers are reversed (transposed) when posting a transaction. Although this error is small and unintentional, it can result in huge financial losses or errors in some instances.


WTF has that got to do with anything we're discussing?

Whats even more ironic is how someone who has tried to correct someone before only to look bad will do so again and hamsterwheel as recourse.

You keep making this claim. Back it up with your many examples.

Its cool that you make stuff up and then call other people delusional. Thats rich.
I have no need to make anything up, you're comedy gold....as usual.


Give it up Lex, you just keep digging deeper.

Steve Sewell
04-15-2010, 10:29 AM
Yeah, I know what irony is but for it to be in effect, there has to be some correlation between two points. There was none. You were suggesting that typos mean youre stupid, which is flawed. So, your use of the word "irony" wasnt really correct. I think its more ironic for you to not understand this while accusing someone else of being stupid.

I didn't accuse anyone of being stupid. Unless you define "stupid" as someone who doesn't understand what irony is. I never said that, though.

gunns
04-15-2010, 10:38 AM
McDaniels had better be right about this. There's really nothing more complicated to handicapping this trade -- and probably McDaniels' future in Denver -- than that.


I've been waiting to hear something about Parcells better be right. That's one hell of a contract for someone who could potentially screw the pooch.

TonyR
04-15-2010, 10:52 AM
I've been waiting to hear something about Parcells better be right. That's one hell of a contract for someone who could potentially screw the pooch.

You know I was thinking the exact same thing. You could easily argue that Miami took the larger risk here. They not only gave up two 2nd round picks, which are gold in the NFL, but they committed a lot of money to a guy with serious character/maturity concerns.

TonyR
04-15-2010, 10:56 AM
Charlie Weiss is a failure no matter how you slice it...

I somewhat agree although you could probably make a similar argument for Weis that you can make for Crennel: he'd be better served as a coordinator. And on Notre Dame, despite all of their advantages, they do have a considerable handicap in that they have higher academic and character concerns for players than most (if not almost all) of the bigger programs. If you're not making appearances in the police blotters you're not competing at the top of Div I college football.

Popps
04-15-2010, 10:58 AM
Johnette?


Seriously?

eddie mac
04-15-2010, 10:59 AM
one thing is for certain - McDaniels is putting it all out there. If he doesn't get results this year or produce something that can VERY easily be seen as translating into results the following year he will be gone and he will have a difficult time finding a new head coaching job for a while, in my opinion.

as for now, i am the ultimate on-the-fence fan... i would have preferred to have kept Cutler and Marshall, but i think mcDaniels is doing an excellent job building the team and i think we will have a good season this year

I've said this all offseason. This is the first year he should really be judged.

His own offensive system should be near enough fully installed. His own defensive line is in place. He's got rid of the majority of yappy bastards who didn't like his non pampering-style.

In 2009 he had exactly 2-3 months to prepare for a draft after ditching the former entire scouting system and the work they'd already prepared for Shanahan. This draft there's no excuses, his people have been monitoring our potential targets for the whole year.

In 2009 he was more prepared for free agency because his people already had good backgrounds on the players he targetted and signed. All of them good work ethic players as well who in the majority improved the team, especially on defense.

eddie mac
04-15-2010, 11:00 AM
Johnette?


Seriously?

That name has sexchange written all over it.

Triplelefthook
04-15-2010, 11:30 AM
I've said this all offseason. This is the first year he should really be judged.

His own offensive system should be near enough fully installed. His own defensive line is in place. He's got rid of the majority of yappy bastards who didn't like his non pampering-style.

In 2009 he had exactly 2-3 months to prepare for a draft after ditching the former entire scouting system and the work they'd already prepared for Shanahan. This draft there's no excuses, his people have been monitoring our potential targets for the whole year.

In 2009 he was more prepared for free agency because his people already had good backgrounds on the players he targetted and signed. All of them good work ethic players as well who in the majority improved the team, especially on defense.

I think this should lead to even more optimism. And we have a lot of picks in a deep draft! We'll also get a better chance to properly evaluate the first draft under this regime. I think guys like McBath, Bruton and Moreno will prove to be very valuable. Also if Ayers and Da Phonz can improve, and if Olsen ends up being a strting calibre guard? Could be decent

Triplelefthook
04-15-2010, 11:31 AM
Recent posts from a Bowlen interview makes it obvious Josh is going to get more than 2 seasons.

:Broncos:

I just feel like if the team doesn't improve then that will not hold true

Hamrob
04-15-2010, 12:17 PM
You see, much as it has become an article of faith within the media to the point where its considered unquestionable, I just don't buy this "mcD is copying Belichick" line...

What I see is players questioning a young coach's authority and forcing him into public confrontations. Every time i see and hear Josh in the media he comes accross as passionate and determined, but open and approachable at the same time - i just don't see the tyrant that everybody talks about.

Perhaps becuase he is so high-pitched and babyfaced everybody takes umbrage with him excercising the basic minimum level of authority and control that a head coach is expected to maintain?

What - is he not allowed to discipline players untill he's won a superbowl?

Should he have said to Cutler "You are above trading and it was wrong of me to even have contemplated a trade - I'll make that statement public if you want."?

Should he have said to Marshall "You want a new contract? OK, never mind your off-field issues and the fact that you're a restricted free-agent, have as much money as you want - and take a practice off if you feel like it."?

Some people looked at McDaniels and thought that was exactly how he would have responded. They expected to be able to push the guy around and that is what's forced him to stand firm. But standing firm doesn't sit well with the public image of the kid coach in the hoodie. So now he's got this reputation as a mini-hitler.....

I think you'll find that NO head coach in the league would have been able to make the concessions to Cutler et al he was asked to and still maintain his authority and do his job. the head coach has to be in charge - its not a funtion of McDaniels psyche or Belichicks style, its a function of the job of a head coach in the national football league. If players choose to question that they must be faced down, and if they can't be tamed they must be shipped. That's the only way that McDaniels will ensure that it is HIS vision for the team which is implemented, and not his vision watered down by the demands of high-profile players..Give me a break. This is more like when a Lion takes over a pride...he kills all the old leaders followers.

Cutler
Marshall
Scheffler
Hillis
Hamilton
Wiegman

The only ones who survive are those who are deftly quiet.

Dedhed
04-15-2010, 12:21 PM
The point at which this team started to collapse wasn't with firing Mike, and hiring Josh, it was firing the Goodman's and hiring Josh.

The point at which the team collapsed was when Shanahan fired Larry Coyer.

Dedhed
04-15-2010, 12:24 PM
I just feel like if the team doesn't improve then that will not hold true

McD will be here for the duration of his contract at the very least, and if the Broncos make the playoffs in 2010 I would expect an extension.

Lolad
04-15-2010, 01:09 PM
McD will be here for the duration of his contract at the very least, and if the Broncos make the playoffs in 2010 I would expect an extension.

and if they don't?

Triplelefthook
04-15-2010, 02:11 PM
McD will be here for the duration of his contract at the very least, and if the Broncos make the playoffs in 2010 I would expect an extension.

i agree, playoffs would be an improvement. i think that if he doesn't show any improvement or signs of improvement this year then he will not be year any longer than his contract and he will have a tough time finding a HC job for a while.

all i am saying is i like that he is putting it all on the line, to do it his way, what he perceives is the right way.... and so far i like what he has done in terms of building the team. i think we will have an exccellent draft as well

2KBack
04-15-2010, 02:17 PM
The point at which the team collapsed was when Shanahan fired Larry Coyer.

I also think it coincided with the departure of Kubiak. Shanahan had never done anything without Kubes, not in Denver the first time, not in SF, not in the glory years. I think his contributions have been underrated.

Popps
04-15-2010, 02:48 PM
So, 4 pages later... some tranny from ESPN and a child-stalker (Lex) hates the Broncos.



Anything else?

NYBronco
04-15-2010, 03:18 PM
The point at which this team started to collapse wasn't with firing Mike, and hiring Josh, it was firing the Goodman's and hiring Josh.

Where are the Goodman's these days and what are they doing? Washington? Chicago? Miami?

lex
04-15-2010, 03:42 PM
So, 4 pages later... some tranny from ESPN and a child-stalker (Lex) hates the Broncos.



Anything else?

How am I a child stalker for calling you out as a negligent parent? Sure,...right.

Popps
04-15-2010, 04:22 PM
How am I a child stalker for calling you out as a negligent parent? Sure,...right.

You obsess over people's children. You're an adult male and you obsess over children on the internet.

I'm imagining things won't end well for you. But, you keep right at it there, sport.

Hopefully we'll meet in person some day and we can sort out this big misunderstanding, and we can see if you'd like to stalk my children in person.

lex
04-15-2010, 04:26 PM
You obsess over people's children. You're an adult male and you obsess over children on the internet.

I'm imagining things won't end well for you. But, you keep right at it there, sport.

Hopefully we'll meet in person some day and we can sort out this big misunderstanding, and we can see if you'd like to stalk my children in person.

Youre the one who brought it up. Youre the one who is driving this by bringing it up. What sad is how you make stuff up...youre probably teaching your kid to lie.

I guess its not my problem. Nor is it my problem if child services comes to your door.

Popps
04-15-2010, 04:28 PM
Youre the one who brought it up. Youre the one who is driving this by bringing it up. What sad is how you make stuff up...youre probably teaching your kid to lie.

I guess its not my problem. Nor is it my problem if child services comes to your door.

Again, you're a sick person. I've never seen anyone obsess over 3 year olds the way you do. I think they have a name for it.

Like I said, just hope we never run into each other....

lex
04-15-2010, 04:31 PM
Again, you're a sick person. I've never seen anyone obsess over 3 year olds the way you do. I think they have a name for it.

Like I said, just hope we never run into each other....

Yeah, thats awesome.

baja
04-15-2010, 04:31 PM
You guys should just walk away from this - no good will come of it. ;D

Popps
04-15-2010, 04:32 PM
Yeah, thats awesome.

We'll see.

Steve Sewell
04-15-2010, 04:58 PM
i agree, playoffs would be an improvement. i think that if he doesn't show any improvement or signs of improvement this year then he will not be year any longer than his contract and he will have a tough time finding a HC job for a while.

all i am saying is i like that he is putting it all on the line, to do it his way, what he perceives is the right way.... and so far i like what he has done in terms of building the team. i think we will have an exccellent draft as well

A lot of you guys underestimate the patience that Pat Bowlen has. He's not like most owners.

Popps
04-15-2010, 05:03 PM
A lot of you guys underestimate the patience that Pat Bowlen has. He's not like most owners.

It was funny to see Bowlen go from "genius" to "idiot" after making one move, huh?

The guy who helped make and employ Shanahan for a couple of decades was suddenly a bumbling fool because he felt it was time for a new direction.


Bowlen will have the last laugh, yet again. He's made an excellent decision, and I agree... he'll be patient enough to let McDaniels find his way to being the great coach most think he will become.

lostknight
04-15-2010, 07:10 PM
The guy who helped make and employ Shanahan for a couple of decades was suddenly a bumbling fool because he felt it was time for a new direction.

No, we question him because of the fool of a head coach he appears to have hired, and for the decision to fire the Goodman's which is letting the fool of a head coach, be a fool of a GM.

Maybe Josh will eventually be a good coach. So far, all evidence points to Nyet. It was time for Shanny to go, but everything since has been a disaster of epic proportions.

Archer81
04-15-2010, 07:21 PM
No, we question him because of the fool of a head coach he appears to have hired, and for the decision to fire the Goodman's which is letting the fool of a head coach, be a fool of a GM.

Maybe Josh will eventually be a good coach. So far, all evidence points to Nyet. It was time for Shanny to go, but everything since has been a disaster of epic proportions.


Hysteria, thy name is lostknight.


:Broncos:

Cito Pelon
04-15-2010, 07:50 PM
Where are the Goodman's these days and what are they doing? Washington? Chicago? Miami?

That's a good question. Buff may know.

Cito Pelon
04-15-2010, 07:53 PM
Hysteria, thy name is lostknight.


:Broncos:

Agreed.

Dedhed
04-15-2010, 08:09 PM
and if they don't?

He'll be here 'til the end of his contract, just like I said in the original post.

Dedhed
04-15-2010, 08:21 PM
Maybe Josh will eventually be a good coach. So far, all evidence points to Nyet.
How do you come to this conclusion? He had the same record in his first year as a head coach as Shanahan did in his last with the same team, and all without a franchise QB.

Seems to me that would point to him being a better coach than Shanahan, but I know you and logic don't often cross paths.

Tombstone RJ
04-15-2010, 08:33 PM
Where are the Goodman's these days and what are they doing? Washington? Chicago? Miami?

lostnight will answer that question directly... not.

~Crash~
04-15-2010, 08:43 PM
Good post - hope everyone reads it

Why is the post so damn great ? Cutler was coming in to start playing for the Broncos . he said all a long he was getting traded and that he would never make it to to the time he said he was going to come in and play. what you do not think the Goodman's did not tell Cutler he was getting traded ?

Archer81
04-15-2010, 08:45 PM
Why is the post so damn great ? Cutler was coming in to start playing for the Broncos . he said all a long he was getting traded and that he would never make it to to the time he said he was going to come in and play. what you do not think the Goodman's did not tell Cutler he was getting traded ?


Uhh...what?


:Broncos:

Dedhed
04-15-2010, 08:46 PM
Why is the post so damn great ? Cutler was coming in to start playing for the Broncos . he said all a long he was getting traded and that he would never make it to to the time he said he was going to come in and play. what you do not think the Goodman's did not tell Cutler he was getting traded ?Is this written in code?

~Crash~
04-15-2010, 08:47 PM
How do you come to this conclusion? He had the same record in his first year as a head coach as Shanahan did in his last with the same team, and all without a franchise QB.

Seems to me that would point to him being a better coach than Shanahan, but I know you and logic don't often cross paths.



I think you need less drugs read his post again . I think he said Shanahan needed to go .

baja
04-15-2010, 08:48 PM
Why is the post so damn great ? Cutler was coming in to start playing for the Broncos . he said all a long he was getting traded and that he would never make it to to the time he said he was going to come in and play. what you do not think the Goodman's did not tell Cutler he was getting traded ?

Would you put that in English or Spanish.

~Crash~
04-15-2010, 08:49 PM
Is this written in code?


Smoke less drugs . There I decoded it for you ass hat .

~Crash~
04-15-2010, 08:50 PM
would you put that in english or spanish.4321~

Archer81
04-15-2010, 08:51 PM
4321~


Do you even know what you typed?


:Broncos:

~Crash~
04-15-2010, 08:54 PM
Baja if that post is so damn great, it sides only with McD being honest . he is not .

~Crash~
04-15-2010, 08:55 PM
Cutler is my Guy .

Dedhed
04-15-2010, 08:56 PM
I think you need less drugs read his post again . I think he said Shanahan needed to go .
So you're saying that Shanahan doesn't qualify as a good coach?

Archer81
04-15-2010, 08:57 PM
Cutler is my Guy .


Like...you held a commitment ceremony is malibu "Guy" or you had your way with him biblically "Guy"?


:Broncos:

Dedhed
04-15-2010, 08:57 PM
Smoke less drugs . There I decoded it for you ass hat .

I don't think I'm the only one who found your post completely unintelligible.

Dedhed
04-15-2010, 08:59 PM
Cutler is my Guy .

McD must be a genius if he can equal Shanahan without "your guy".

TotallyScrewed
04-16-2010, 07:16 AM
Around here being Shanahan's equal is akin to being a piece of ****. So are you saying that McD is a piece of ****?

jhns
04-16-2010, 07:30 AM
McD will be gone in a year or two. At this point, we all just have to wait it out. It will be great when he is finally gone. We can go after a real QB and have team unity again. I can't wait.

Mr.Meanie
04-16-2010, 07:43 AM
McD will be gone in a year or two. At this point, we all just have to wait it out. It will be great when he is finally gone. We can go after a real QB and have team unity again. I can't wait.

well look who's back

jhns
04-16-2010, 07:53 AM
well look who's back

Did you miss me? I missed you guys.

TonyR
04-16-2010, 07:59 AM
We can go after a real QB and have team unity again.

What QB would you suggest McD "go after" right now? And isn't "team unity" one of the factors behing BM being gone?

jhns
04-16-2010, 08:11 AM
What QB would you suggest McD "go after" right now? And isn't "team unity" one of the factors behing BM being gone?

I am not down on McD for the Marshall thing. The only reason I don't like it is that we already had a much weaker offense from his earlier moves and this move won't help that. That is ok though, at least it will help with the process of McD being fired. I have seen more problems from this team in the last two years than I sa1 in all the years I have watched this team before that. I know you all blame Shanahan but I blame the people in charge. Shanahan didn't have these problems and he had a lot of these players.

As for the QB, I don't know. Personally, I would have kept Cutler. McD wanted to give him away. I think it should be his job to actually replace him. I don't give him a pass simply because he didn't have a real plan in place when giving away a 25 year old pro bowler simply because the 25 year old acted immature about a single situation.

Anyways, I wasn't suggesting McDaniels go after a QB this year. I said his replacement can. McDaniels seems fine with the idea of putting his Broncos career on Ortons shoulders.

Dagmar
04-16-2010, 08:15 AM
The 2 worst trolls are on vacation, for the rest...

http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u637/do_not_feed_trolls.jpg

jhns
04-16-2010, 08:19 AM
The 2 worst trolls are on vacation, for the rest...


So you took your laptop on vacation or what?

baja
04-16-2010, 08:27 AM
I am not down on McD for the Marshall thing. The only reason I don't like it is that we already had a much weaker offense from his earlier moves and this move won't help that. That is ok though, at least it will help with the process of McD being fired. I have seen more problems from this team in the last two years than I sa1 in all the years I have watched this team before that. I know you all blame Shanahan but I blame the people in charge. Shanahan didn't have these problems and he had a lot of these players.

As for the QB, I don't know. Personally, I would have kept Cutler. McD wanted to give him away. I think it should be his job to actually replace him. I don't give him a pass simply because he didn't have a real plan in place when giving away a 25 year old pro bowler simply because the 25 year old acted immature about a single situation.

Anyways, I wasn't suggesting McDaniels go after a QB this year. I said his replacement can. McDaniels seems fine with the idea of putting his Broncos career on Ortons shoulders.

Shanny also fielded a weak team that quit on him in many a game.

jhns
04-16-2010, 08:34 AM
Shanny also fielded a weak team that quit on him in many a game.

I agree. He was also fired for it. That doesn't change the fact that we have had more problems than I can ever remeber since Shanahan left. Also, we got rid of all of the problems(problems to McD at least, other than Marshall) and Shanahan only to have the exact same thing happen.

I am not one that says we shouldn't have fired Shanahan.

DBroncos4life
04-16-2010, 08:58 AM
2003 49ers went 7-9 with Owens
2004 49ers went 2-14 without Owens
2005 Eagles went 6-10 with Owens
2006 Eagles went 10-6 without Owens
2008 Cowboys went 9-7 with Owens
2009 Cowboys went 11-5 without Owens

2004 Vikings went 8-8 with Moss
2005 Vikings went 9-7 without Moss
2006 Raiders went 2-14 with Moss
2007 Raiders went 4-12 without Moss

I think Marshall brings the off-field issues Moss has with the work ethic of Owens. Owens and Marshall are nothing alike when it comes to problems on the field. Owens bitches about not getting the football like no other WR I have ever seen. Marshall doesn't take plays off like Moss either. He leaves everything on the field.

Hopefully we can continue the trend and get better like the other teams when they moved their troubled but talented WR.

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 09:17 AM
Why is the post so damn great ? Cutler was coming in to start playing for the Broncos . he said all a long he was getting traded and that he would never make it to to the time he said he was going to come in and play. what you do not think the Goodman's did not tell Cutler he was getting traded ?

Mr. ~Crash~, what you've just wrote is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 09:21 AM
I have seen more problems from this team in the last two years than I sa1 in all the years I have watched this team before that. I know you all blame Shanahan but I blame the people in charge. Shanahan didn't have these problems and he had a lot of these players.



Quoted and bolded for laughs.

Dagmar
04-16-2010, 09:22 AM
http://kevinfamous.com/Videos/billy%20madison.jpg

Rep!

jhns
04-16-2010, 09:28 AM
Quoted and bolded for laughs.

So at what point did Denver have this much drama under Shanahan?

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 09:48 AM
So at what point did Denver have this much drama under Shanahan?

Depends on how you define "drama". If you qualify it as McDaniel's getting rid of "me first" douchebags like Cutler and Marshall, then of course he wins.

However, I question your memory, may I list a few names and situations that perhaps could jog it?

Dale Carter
Daryl Gardener
Travis Henry
Gerard Warren
Browncos
Brian Griese and Trevor Price
Jake Plummer flipping off fans and getting into traffic altercations (lol)
Hiring/Firing defensive coordinators on a yearly basis
Marcus Nash
The 2003 draft (ROFL)
Ashley Lelie

The list goes on. I think the "drama" that you refer to is the resistance to change from a segment of butthurt fans who jumped on the bandwagon after SB 32 and don't know anything but Mike Shanahan's Broncos.

baja
04-16-2010, 10:05 AM
Depends on how you define "drama". If you qualify it as McDaniel's getting rid of "me first" douchebags like Cutler and Marshall, then of course he wins.

However, I question your memory, may I list a few names and situations that perhaps could jog it?

Dale Carter
Daryl Gardener
Travis Henry
Gerard Warren
Browncos
Brian Griese and Trevor Price
Jake Plummer flipping off fans and getting into traffic altercations (lol)
Hiring/Firing defensive coordinators on a yearly basis
Marcus Nash
The 2003 draft (ROFL)
Ashley Lelie

The list goes on. I think the "drama" that you refer to is the resistance to change from a segment of butthurt fans who jumped on the bandwagon after SB 32 and don't know anything but Mike Shanahan's Broncos.

You forgot Clarret for a third and he was cut week 3 of training camp, but at least he didn't cost at much as the guys on your list.

Requiem
04-16-2010, 10:08 AM
People need to stop bitching about the moves that were made, especially the draft picks. Anyone trying to evaluate their full value and longevity on the team after their rookie seasons needs to to have Mediator check their psyche and mental stability.

2KBack
04-16-2010, 10:09 AM
You forgot Clarret for a third and he was cut week 3 of training camp, but at least he didn't cost at much as the guys on your list.

A big one regarding Griese would be his rise to starting status over Bubby Brister. That one didn't go down well at all.

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 10:21 AM
You forgot Clarret for a third and he was cut week 3 of training camp, but at least he didn't cost at much as the guys on your list.

How could I forget. I also forgot to mention letting Shannon Sharpe go to the freakin' Ravens as well as Deltha O'Neal. Or the epic beat downs at the hands of the Colts in the playoffs.

jhns
04-16-2010, 10:22 AM
Depends on how you define "drama". If you qualify it as McDaniel's getting rid of "me first" douchebags like Cutler and Marshall, then of course he wins.

However, I question your memory, may I list a few names and situations that perhaps could jog it?

Dale Carter
Daryl Gardener
Travis Henry
Gerard Warren
Browncos
Brian Griese and Trevor Price
Jake Plummer flipping off fans and getting into traffic altercations (lol)
Hiring/Firing defensive coordinators on a yearly basis
Marcus Nash
The 2003 draft (ROFL)
Ashley Lelie

The list goes on. I think the "drama" that you refer to is the resistance to change from a segment of butthurt fans who jumped on the bandwagon after SB 32 and don't know anything but Mike Shanahan's Broncos.

You include bad signings or picks as drama? Well, McD already beat all of Shanahans moves in that department. Let's see, there is Kyle Orton. There is that trading a future first in a year you didn't have time to prepare, also after firing the heads of scouting right before the draft, only to go get an undersized, slow corner. Then there is the whole not being able to get along with a player that has had no problems with his other two coaches only to give that 25 year old pro bowler away and start Kyle Orton. There is the fact that Marshall slacked off for him and never once did we hear about that with Shanahan.
The list goes on. Funny thing is, it took Shanahan a LOT od years to get the list you compiled. I can make a longer list for McDaniels single year here.

jhns
04-16-2010, 10:26 AM
How could I forget. I also forgot to mention letting Shannon Sharpe go to the freakin' Ravens as well as Deltha O'Neal. Or the epic beat downs at the hands of the Colts in the playoffs.

I think you are confused on the kind of drama I am talking about. For one, I would take playoff losses over what the team did last season any day. Two, Sharpe came back.... He couldn't have had that big of a falling out with the front office. About O'Neal, LOL..... Riiiiiight...

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 11:15 AM
You include bad signings or picks as drama? Well, McD already beat all of Shanahans moves in that department. Let's see, there is Kyle Orton. There is that trading a future first in a year you didn't have time to prepare, also after firing the heads of scouting right before the draft, only to go get an undersized, slow corner. Then there is the whole not being able to get along with a player that has had no problems with his other two coaches only to give that 25 year old pro bowler away and start Kyle Orton. There is the fact that Marshall slacked off for him and never once did we hear about that with Shanahan.
The list goes on. Funny thing is, it took Shanahan a LOT od years to get the list you compiled. I can make a longer list for McDaniels single year here.

Kyle Orton had a better year than Cutler last year. Cutler sure looks awesome moving a team between the 20's, doesn't he?

Alphonso Smith is slow? ROFL 4.47 40 at the combine. Perhaps give him a little more time to develop before proclaiming him as a bust?

Shanahan wanted to get rid of Marshall at the end of his final season.

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 11:20 AM
I think you are confused on the kind of drama I am talking about. For one, I would take playoff losses over what the team did last season any day. Two, Sharpe came back.... He couldn't have had that big of a falling out with the front office. About O'Neal, LOL..... Riiiiiight...

What kind of drama are you talking about then?

Players that are having a "falling out" with the current front office because they are me-first players. How hard is that to understand? McD is trying to re-shape the type of player that the franchise is going to be made of. Lets not forget that he also went 8-8 last year without the "25 year old franchise pro bowl QB", same as Shanahan did with him the previous year. That same QB was 17-20 as a starter with all that amazing talent that McD is getting rid of. May I also ask how Cutler did with the Bears last year? Yeah, it was a freakin' disaster.

jhns
04-16-2010, 11:28 AM
Kyle Orton had a better year than Cutler last year. Cutler sure looks awesome moving a team between the 20's, doesn't he?

Alphonso Smith is slow? ROFL 4.47 40 at the combine. Perhaps give him a little more time to develop before proclaiming him as a bust?

Shanahan wanted to get rid of Marshall at the end of his final season.

4.5 is kind of slow for a first round corner in todays NFL. That is mostly when combined with the size factor though. It wouldn't be bad if he was big enough to push back against receivers. I'm not claiming he is a bust. I am claiming it was dumb to give up a future first in a draft that the coach wasn't prepared for. That and the fact that everyone in the world other than McDaniels knew that this year was going to be a better draft.

As for Shanahan and Marshall, maybe. You say that like it is a fact. Even if Shanahan did want to get rid of him, how much of that played out in the media? How many times did you hear about Marshall not practicing and causing problems? I will tell you how many, none. Players got in trouble when they weren't near the team under Shanahan. They didn't cause trouble when the guy that knows how to control his players was around...

jhns
04-16-2010, 11:31 AM
What kind of drama are you talking about then?

Players that are having a "falling out" with the current front office because they are me-first players. How hard is that to understand? McD is trying to re-shape the type of player that the franchise is going to be made of. Lets not forget that he also went 8-8 last year without the "25 year old franchise pro bowl QB", same as Shanahan did with him the previous year. That same QB was 17-20 as a starter with all that amazing talent that McD is getting rid of. May I also ask how Cutler did with the Bears last year? Yeah, it was a freakin' disaster.

You aren't even worth arguing with. You are now trying to argue this is a one man sport. You also seem to think that coaching has nothing to do with talent being successful. These are funny thoughts but they have no place in a real discussion.

broncocalijohn
04-16-2010, 11:37 AM
Did you see her picture on ESPN? Good Lord! It's a dude with a wig on. Where the heck do they find these people?

What do you expect? Homely chicks write about sports figures. Hot chicks are banging the sports figures that homely chicks are wasting away their Friday and Saturday nights writting about.

Just keep piling on McDaniels as if you are the first. I have run into a few Dolphins fans and I cannot believe how many have no clue about his past. It is like brand spanking new news to them. I guess it is new news to homely reporters too.

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 11:41 AM
4.5 is kind of slow for a first round corner in todays NFL. That is mostly when combined with the size factor though. It wouldn't be bad if he was big enough to push back against receivers. I'm not claiming he is a bust. I am claiming it was dumb to give up a future first in a draft that the coach wasn't prepared for. That and the fact that everyone in the world other than McDaniels knew that this year was going to be a better draft.

As for Shanahan and Marshall, maybe. You say that like it is a fact. Even if Shanahan did want to get rid of him, how much of that played out in the media? How many times did you hear about Marshall not practicing and causing problems? I will tell you how many, none. Players got in trouble when they weren't near the team under Shanahan. They didn't cause trouble when the guy that knows how to control his players was around...

Smith was a 1st All American playing in one of the top conferences in college football. I believe he has something like 21 INTs in his college career.

Top 40 yd dash times from this years combine for CB's:

Ghee, Brandon 4.45
Cook, Chris 4.46
Owusu-Ansah, Akwasi 4.47
Pender, David 4.47
McCourty, Devin 4.48
Thomas, Kevin 4.48
Jackson, Kareem 4.48

Also, you claim that I say things that aren't "facts". What evidence do you have the the Broncos were not prepared for last years draft? Sounds mighty anecdotal if you ask me.

You want to talk about playing **** out on the media...it was MARSHALL who played **** out in the media while under McDaniels.

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 11:48 AM
You aren't even worth arguing with. You are now trying to argue this is a one man sport. You also seem to think that coaching has nothing to do with talent being successful. These are funny thoughts but they have no place in a real discussion.

This is too funny. You specifically referenced single player personnel decisions(Cutler -> Orton) being made by McD as being bad for the team, and then turn around and accuse me of making a faulty argument by referencing the difference in performance by those players.

jhns
04-16-2010, 11:54 AM
Smith was a 1st All American playing in one of the top conferences in college football. I believe he has something like 21 INTs in his college career.

Top 40 yd dash times from this years combine for CB's:

Ghee, Brandon 4.45
Cook, Chris 4.46
Owusu-Ansah, Akwasi 4.47
Pender, David 4.47
McCourty, Devin 4.48
Thomas, Kevin 4.48
Jackson, Kareem 4.48

Also, you claim that I say things that aren't "facts". What evidence do you have the the Broncos were not prepared for last years draft? Sounds mighty anecdotal if you ask me.

You want to talk about playing **** out on the media...it was MARSHALL who played **** out in the media while under McDaniels.

Are all of those corners going in the first? Are the ones going in the first also as small as Smith? These would both need to apply to counter what I am saying....

You used speculation as fact. No need to get defensive. What evidence do I have? Well that one is easy. They fired the guys in charge of scouting. They were a new regime that was working through many other things like FA, a whiney QB, and assistent coaches. I'm not sure how many hours you think are in a day but I would say it was physically impossible for him to be as prepared as he will be for this draft and future drafts. That is under prepared.

Taco John
04-16-2010, 11:56 AM
Wow. My respect for Broncos fans just took another huge hit. Seriously, what are we, sexist thugs in trailers demanding that the b**** stay away from sports, and do dishes?

I agree with this. I think the way that some of the people here treat women is deplorable. The part that I found the most amusing was the end:


Please blow up her email and show some dignity as Broncos fans...


He calls her a bitch and then makes a plea for dignity...

jhns
04-16-2010, 11:58 AM
Oh yeah, I forgot one other reason he wasn't fully prepared. He had just taken over this team. He didn't even fully know what he had yet. With Champ and Goodman playing at such a high level, Smith could have started out great and still would have been a head scratcher. He won't replace our starters. I'm not sure about you but I don't think of mid first rounders as being guys I want to start in 4-5 years.

jhns
04-16-2010, 12:01 PM
This is too funny. You specifically referenced single player personnel decisions(Cutler -> Orton) being made by McD as being bad for the team, and then turn around and accuse me of making a faulty argument by referencing the difference in performance by those players.

Riiiiight. You say the QB wins and loses on his own. You say young QBs don't need coaching to be successful. For that, I laugh at your funny logic.

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 12:09 PM
Are all of those corners going in the first? Are the ones going in the first also as small as Smith? These would both need to apply to counter what I am saying....

Maybe I don't know what you are saying seeing as you referenced the fact that he's slow (which was wrong).

You used speculation as fact. No need to get defensive. What evidence do I have? Well that one is easy. They fired the guys in charge of scouting. They were a new regime that was working through many other things like FA, a whiney QB, and assistent coaches. I'm not sure how many hours you think are in a day but I would say it was physically impossible for him to be as prepared as he will be for this draft and future drafts. That is under prepared.

I'm not speculating at all. Peter King said that Mike Shanahan told him the deal about Marshall point blank. Regarding your comment about being unprepared, I suppose then we could say that every single coach in his first year with a team is underprepared, seeing as in most cases the house is cleaned with a coaching change. Got it.

jhns
04-16-2010, 12:14 PM
Maybe I don't know what you are saying seeing as you referenced the fact that he's slow (which was wrong).

I'm not speculating at all. Peter King said that Mike Shanahan told him the deal about Marshall point blank. Regarding your comment about being unprepared, I suppose then we could say that every single coach in his first year with a team is underprepared, seeing as in most cases the house is cleaned with a coaching change. Got it.

He is slow for a corner. The other corners you showed aren't exactly fast. They are average speed for a corner at best. Again though, I said that speed with that size = not first round upside. Nothing you have shown counters that unless those guys are projected for the first round and are small.

I would say your second thought is true. That is why you don't see any other regimes giving up future firsts in their first year. Most don't even deal with half of what McDaniels had to deal with his first year.

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 12:19 PM
Riiiiight. You say the QB wins and loses on his own. You say young QBs don't need coaching to be successful. For that, I laugh at your funny logic.

You were characterizing McD's job as coach last year as a negative result and specifically referenced him bringing Kyle Orton for Jay Cutler, when the reality is that McD achieved similar results without Cutler. The only funny logic here is you accusing me of being short sighted for using specific examples that you gave for a perceived lack of success under McD to counteract your point. For that, I laugh at your hypocrisy.

jhns
04-16-2010, 12:26 PM
You were characterizing McD's job as coach last year as a negative result and specifically referenced him bringing Kyle Orton for Jay Cutler, when the reality is that McD achieved similar results without Cutler. The only funny logic here is you accusing me of being short sighted for using specific examples that you gave for a perceived lack of success under McD to counteract your point. For that, I laugh at your hypocrisy.

So now that is the only move he made? Again, silly logic just makes me laugh. Bring something more to the table than that the game is won and lost by a single player.

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 12:29 PM
He is slow for a corner. The other corners you showed aren't exactly fast. They are average speed for a corner at best. Again though, I said that speed with that size = not first round upside. Nothing you have shown counters that unless those guys are projected for the first round and are small.

I would say your second thought is true. That is why you don't see any other regimes giving up future firsts in their first year. Most don't even deal with half of what McDaniels had to deal with his first year.

Here is a corner of similar size to Smith who is projected as a 1st round draft pick. Can't find his 40 time, apparently he didn't run at the combine.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/kyle-wilson?id=79527#tabs:tab-analysis

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 12:31 PM
So now that is the only move he made? Again, silly logic just makes me laugh. Bring something more to the table than that the game is won and lost by a single player.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2807787&postcount=154

I responded to all of your examples of "bad moves" that he made, in the above and subsequent posts.

jhns
04-16-2010, 12:37 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2807787&postcount=154

I responded to all of your examples of "bad moves" that he made, in the above and subsequent posts.

That is a response to what I quoted. You said something along the lines of "we had the same record which proves it can't be a negative move!". That would only be true if it was the only move made last offseason. Again, silly logic.

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 12:46 PM
That is a response to what I quoted. You said something along the lines of "we had the same record which proves it can't be a negative move!". That would only be true if it was the only move made last offseason. Again, silly logic.

Ok, you made the statement...so then the burden of proof is on you to prove it was a negative move. I'm from the Bill Parcel's camp of "you are what your record says you are". Elaborate why you feel the move was a bad one and provide evidence to support it.

jhns
04-16-2010, 12:56 PM
Ok, you made the statement...so then the burden of proof is on you to prove it was a negative move. I'm from the Bill Parcel's camp of "you are what your record says you are". Elaborate why you feel the move was a bad one and provide evidence to support it.

The simplest way to explain it is:

Cutlers team had the franchises worst ever defense and a crap special teams. This team ended 8-8.

Ortons team had a defense that was in the top half of the league and a much improved special teams. This team ended 8-8.

I get you all want to homer out on everything no matter what. I do understand and don't hold the homer opinions against you. I was like that for a long time until McD came along. When you break it down though, the offense was more of the burdon on this team this past season when it was what carried the team the season before. Just imagine if McD didn't f up the offense in the process of creating that good defense...

Beantown Bronco
04-16-2010, 01:06 PM
Good thing you don't factor in all the OLine injuries and injury to Eddie Royal when you analyze the difference in offensive production between the two seasons.

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 01:09 PM
The simplest way to explain it is:

Cutlers team had the franchises worst ever defense and a crap special teams. This team ended 8-8.

Ortons team had a defense that was in the top half of the league and a much improved special teams. This team ended 8-8.

I get you all want to homer out on everything no matter what. I do understand and don't hold the homer opinions against you. I was like that for a long time until McD came along. When you break it down though, the offense was more of the burdon on this team this past season when it was what carried the team the season before. Just imagine if McD didn't f up the offense in the process of creating that good defense...

Denver's offensive ranks in 2008 for Points and Yards: 16th and 2nd. (23 ppg)
Denver's offensive ranks in 2009 for Points and Yards: 20th and 15th. (20 ppg)

Denver's offense clearly carried the 2008 team. If it weren't for that pesky red zone and those darn interceptions.

jhns
04-16-2010, 01:22 PM
Denver's offensive ranks in 2008 for Points and Yards: 16th and 2nd. (23 ppg)
Denver's offensive ranks in 2009 for Points and Yards: 20th and 15th. (20 ppg)

Denver's offense clearly carried the 2008 team. If it weren't for that pesky red zone and those darn interceptions.

Except there is no offensive scoring stat and if you broke it down at all you would know 16th is far from where we were. You are using team stats to call the offense out. Pretty funny stuff that this is all anyone can ever use to say that offense wasn't good. It is never an actual offensive stat. I will agree though, that offense of all rookie-third year players did need to improve on turnovers. It isn't the first set of inexperienced players to be a little inconsistent. We had what? 6-8 fewer turnovers this season? That is with a LOT less production and an older group....

Steve Sewell
04-16-2010, 01:37 PM
Except there is no offensive scoring stat and if you broke it down at all you would know 16th is far from where we were. You are using team stats to call the offense out. Pretty funny stuff that this is all anyone can ever use to say that offense wasn't good. It is never an actual offensive stat. I will agree though, that offense of all rookie-third year players did need to improve on turnovers. It isn't the first set of inexperienced players to be a little inconsistent. We had what? 6-8 fewer turnovers this season? That is with a LOT less production and an older group....

Break it down then, champ.

Especially if you are going to sit here and say simplistic things like:

"Our offense carried a terrible defense in 2008 and we finished 8-8, and our offense was carried by a good defense in 2009 and we finished 8-8. This is my evidence that Cutler was a better QB for the Broncos than Kyle Orton"

And then accuse me of silly logic and/or not properly "breaking it down" when I present statistics that provide evidence to the contrary.

jhns
04-16-2010, 02:08 PM
Break it down then, champ.

Especially if you are going to sit here and say simplistic things like:

"Our offense carried a terrible defense in 2008 and we finished 8-8, and our offense was carried by a good defense in 2009 and we finished 8-8. This is my evidence that Cutler was a better QB for the Broncos than Kyle Orton"

And then accuse me of silly logic and/or not properly "breaking it down" when I present statistics that provide evidence to the contrary.

I used the simplest logic there is to break it down. I'm not sure how it can even be argued but alright.

First thing is first. Your "offensive scoring" stat is a team stat. Proof you say? Well that is simple. Look at your total. Go to espns Bronco page. Look at the stat breakdowns for the year in question. There is a thing there called "Scoring Statistics". If you look under this breakdown, they show the same number you are looking at for that 16th rank. Now notice how we got there. Nate Websters TD was not on offense. This stat includes defensive and special teams TDs.

Now that this is out of the way, I will explain why there is no such thing as an offensive scoring stat as I break down some of what we did.

If you try just taking out 6 points for every defensive and special teams TD for every team, it moves Denver to 11th that year. This is not taking out extra points because I did this myself and didn't want to look if teams went for 1, 2, or just missed the extra point for each of those. Now the part that makes it tricky is how do you break down FGs? We had a far more accurate kicker this past season(I get it was the same one, this is easy to prove though) and with 2 extra FGs made, it moves that Denver team to 9th scoring. Of course, you could blame Cutler for the bad kicking and say it was us getting Orton that allowed Prater to get better.

None of that even mentions that the Cutler led offense had the 32nd ranked starting field position. They drove further per drive than any offense in the league. They punted fewer times per drive than any team in the league. This is all with 7 RBs hitting IR and many more injuries all over the team than this past year had.

This is getting long so I will stop here and just ask, should I continue?