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View Full Version : Seriously, does Spiller make any sense at all?


ZONA
04-14-2010, 03:19 PM
I can't believe how many people on here think this would be a wise pick @ #11.

I get it, the guy is fast. He's a playmaker. But what team uses 2 consecutive 1st round picks (top 15 picks I might add) on RB's? OK, I can see a team using 1 pick that high, if it's your featured back. And we did that with Moreno last year. Do you really think it's smart drafting to take another RB the following year in the 1st round? Spiller would be our 3rd down specialist, and yeah, he could retrun kicks. But I don't think it's wise to pay that position #11 money. No way. Not when you still have a good few years left on Buckhalter, which has shown he still has some legs under him. Sorry but I don't think McD is going down that road.

Go ahead, rip away...........muahahahahaha.

tsiguy96
04-14-2010, 03:20 PM
says the man with the hillis avatar!!!

ZONA
04-14-2010, 03:21 PM
says the man with the hillis avatar!!!

I told myself just as I finished writing that post, Tsiguy96 will be the first to reply. You didn't dissapoint, lol.

cmhargrove
04-14-2010, 03:21 PM
We kicked ass with the "Wild Horses" last year. This year, Orton's playing wideout permanently baby!

Br0nc0Buster
04-14-2010, 03:23 PM
I like Spiller as a player a lot
But I dont know if I can justify drafting a RB back to back years with high picks

it would be the definition of a luxury pick

Doggcow
04-14-2010, 03:23 PM
We kicked ass with the "Wild Horses" last year. This year, Orton's playing wideout permanently baby!

Who needs marshall! We have Orton at split end!

ZONA
04-14-2010, 03:25 PM
Who needs marshall! We have Orton at split end!

I don't think teams mind that. It's not like they would have to actually tackle him if he caught a pass. All they need to do is get close to him and he would just fall down. :thanku:

SoDak Bronco
04-14-2010, 03:26 PM
Matt Millen thinks its a great idea.

tsiguy96
04-14-2010, 03:26 PM
I like Spiller as a player a lot
But I dont know if I can justify drafting a RB back to back years with high picks

it would be the definition of a luxury pick

kinda, but at the same time if you look at the effect chris johnson had (and i know spiller is not a CJ) anytime in teh NFL can use that production.

baja
04-14-2010, 03:28 PM
If Spiller was just a running back I'd agree with you Zona but he is a great receiver out of the backfield and a stellar return man To steal a phrase from TJ "He's a three tool player"

Spiller could account for 30 to 40 of Marshall's receptions

bronco militia
04-14-2010, 03:28 PM
Arrington, J.J.

Ball, Lance

Buckhalter, Correll

Hall, Bruce

46 Larsen, Spencer

27 Moreno, Knowshon

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=396


all signs point to YES

ZONA
04-14-2010, 03:29 PM
kinda, but at the same time if you look at the effect chris johnson had (and i know spiller is not a CJ) anytime in teh NFL can use that production.

Yeah, but Johnson is their featured back, no mistake about it. Spiller would not be the featured back here. And the Titans are not paying White a top 10 contract like we are paying Moreno.

gtown
04-14-2010, 03:30 PM
The team lacks playmakers now and Spiller was historically proficient in college football. It seems crazy to go RB two years in a row, but if you told me two years ago we would have no Cutler or Marshall, I would have LMAO.

I am thinking our only real alternative at 11 was McClain, but we are moving Haggan inside so that Ayers can play the outside. We just gave Haggan lots of cash and the team seems pretty high on Ayers. Plus there is the whole intestinal issue that McClain may or may not have.

It's too early, and too much of a money commitment to spend on an interior lineman, like Pouncey or Iupati.

We aren't going for Dez Bryant. That is just replacing Marshall with a potential Marshall. I think we will get a good WR with #43 or #45.

So Spiller. Unless someone falls.

We just spent a load of money revamping the DL with the FA pickups. If we go Dan Williams at 11, he will be behind a couple of players. He won't start for the Broncos for a long time. McD might be lynched before that day comes.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-14-2010, 03:31 PM
Arrington, J.J.

Ball, Lance

Buckhalter, Correll

Hall, Bruce

46 Larsen, Spencer

27 Moreno, Knowshon

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=396


all signs point to YES


Did you watch Moreno try to run behind our line last year? it was pathetic. We need some big ass interior linemen. That should be our first priority.

ZONA
04-14-2010, 03:33 PM
If Spiller was just a running back I'd agree with you Zona but he is a great receiver out of the backfield and a stellar return man To steal a phrase from TJ "He's a three tool player"

Spiller could account for 30 to 40 of Marshall's receptions

Oh I know he can catch. But unless you're going to line him up as a wideout, your taking Moreno off the field if you want him to line up in the backfield. Josh like his 2 TE sets and I don't see Moreno coming off the field all that much. Wasn't one of the bigger reasons Josh got Moreno was that he was a guy who was tough enough to handle the pounding on 1st and 2nd down but versitile enough to stay on in 3rd downs.

And maybe even a better point yet. You put Spiller in the backfield on 3rd down, teams know he is not staying in to block. So, you are really tipping your hand when he's back there on 3rd down.

Bottom line, I just can't see him being on the field enough to justify that pick.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-14-2010, 03:37 PM
I'd rather have an interior lineman... but look at what a guy like Hester or Cribbs does for their team. I wouldn't be upset in the least if we took Spiller with the 11th... so long as we address the lines frequently afterwards.

tsiguy96
04-14-2010, 03:39 PM
We just spent a load of money revamping the DL with the FA pickups. If we go Dan Williams at 11, he will be behind a couple of players. He won't start for the Broncos for a long time. McD might be lynched before that day comes.

yep, which is why i think mcdaniels takes a guy who starts and makes this team better from day one. with our first 3 picks we will take a WR and C. if we go mcclain, benn, tennant, thats not a bad draft.

Gcver2ver3
04-14-2010, 03:51 PM
I can't believe how many people on here think this would be a wise pick @ #11.

I get it, the guy is fast. He's a playmaker. But what team uses 2 consecutive 1st round picks (top 15 picks I might add) on RB's? OK, I can see a team using 1 pick that high, if it's your featured back. And we did that with Moreno last year. Do you really think it's smart drafting to take another RB the following year in the 1st round? Spiller would be our 3rd down specialist, and yeah, he could retrun kicks. But I don't think it's wise to pay that position #11 money. No way. Not when you still have a good few years left on Buckhalter, which has shown he still has some legs under him. Sorry but I don't think McD is going down that road.

Go ahead, rip away...........muahahahahaha.

you make good points...

but i could care less if we pick RB 2 yrs in a row...i firmly believe in going bpa at that point in the draft...

and if spiller is available at 11...he's the bpa IMO...
yes we need bigger interior lineman, but we draft for need in later rounds IMO...

most teams use two backs nowadays and CJ Spiller gives a chance to score everytime he touches the ball...we can't say that about anybody else on our offense...we need some explosion and it doesnt get more explosive than Spiller...

besides...just because spiller is on the field doesn't mean moreno comes out...you can line up spiller at receiver at times or have a dual backfield...

Killericon
04-14-2010, 03:54 PM
If Spiller was just a running back I'd agree with you Zona but he is a great receiver out of the backfield and a stellar return man To steal a phrase from TJ "He's a three tool player"

Spiller could account for 30 to 40 of Marshall's receptions

You mean he's the next Reggie Bush? :-*

Linebackers or Guards. PLEASE.

baja
04-14-2010, 03:57 PM
You mean he's the next Reggie Bush? :-*

Linebackers or Guards. PLEASE.

Not to worry we'll get them just not at 11. ;D

Popps
04-14-2010, 03:58 PM
I'd rather have an interior lineman... but look at what a guy like Hester or Cribbs does for their team. I wouldn't be upset in the least if we took Spiller with the 11th... so long as we address the lines frequently afterwards.

Agree.

Doesn't really matter so much where we take these guys, as long as we get what we need in the big picture.

That said, we do need at least 2 premiere linemen from this draft. We have an extra pick, now... so we have to make this happen.

gtown
04-14-2010, 03:59 PM
All signs point to Spiller being the pick. First we draft off a short board and we met with Spiller. Second, Moreno is not a workhorse. He comes up lame at least once a game. Third, Spiller is an elite returner which will allow Eddie to focus on playing WR in McDs system, something he struggled with last year. Fourth, every good team has RBBC these days. Fifth, Spiller would be great split out in any one of McDs spread sets. Sixth, we could have gotten Ginn today to replace Marshall, but we didn't. I know he sucks, but he could have been a cheap throw in.

baja
04-14-2010, 04:01 PM
I also think Josh has shown his tendencies on draft day. There is a very good chance he will trade back into the first round if he sees a player he covets that has fallen to a high value level for us. He has a short draft list (I like that) and we will maneuver to get as many of those guys he can. There will be some very pissed off people around here after the draft. They are going to have the same complaints this year as they has last year, the "we could've had them later' whine.

PRBronco
04-14-2010, 04:02 PM
I can't help but wonder if the Cryptkeeper in Oakland has his eye on Spiller. He's got crazy speed, and would be a luxury pick while they have epic needs at other positions. It looks like like a tailor made Raiders pick.

mhgaffney
04-14-2010, 04:05 PM
Best move is to trade that 11 pick and move back --

We need more second round picks to fill the holes.

Our big needs: G, C, WR, DL, ILB

Gcver2ver3
04-14-2010, 04:14 PM
All signs point to Spiller being the pick. First we draft off a short board and we met with Spiller. Second, Moreno is not a workhorse. He comes up lame at least once a game. Third, Spiller is an elite returner which will allow Eddie to focus on playing WR in McDs system, something he struggled with last year. Fourth, every good team has RBBC these days. Fifth, Spiller would be great split out in any one of McDs spread sets. Sixth, we could have gotten Ginn today to replace Marshall, but we didn't. I know he sucks, but he could have been a cheap throw in.

i think your last point is intriguing...

with that said, i wouldnt assume spiller will be available at 11...

he's moving up draft boards...and i could see him go as early as 6 assuming no trades occur...

long beach bronco
04-14-2010, 04:28 PM
If Spiller is there at #11, he's got to be the pick. Our defense is set for the 2010 season, from here on out it'll be all OL and playmakers, and Spiller fits the bill just nicely. He reminds me of Thurman Thomas who could do it all. We need to put some punch in this offense and picking Spiller would do just that. I could care less if we took a RB last season, I want to win.

Baba Booey
04-14-2010, 04:29 PM
Trindon Holliday could be our Sproles on the second day.

lex
04-14-2010, 05:01 PM
Yeah, Spiller makes sense but so does taking a Guard or a Center with a high pick also. But yeah, the Spiller pick is totally justifiable. He brings what Moreno didnt and is a huge asset in the receiving and return game. There will likely be games where he goes 6 for 9 (but even then he might have big plays in the passing or return game) but then ther will be games when he rushes 9 times for 87 yards. He might even do better than that. Clemson has been off and one with either a new QB or a new offensive line.

barryr
04-14-2010, 05:03 PM
Broncos drafting a RB in the 1st round 2 years in a row? Don't bet on it.

Durango
04-14-2010, 05:07 PM
No. For cryin' out loud, NO. McClain, DT, OT/OG, anything but RB.

RonDaChamp24
04-14-2010, 05:22 PM
Trindon Holliday could be our Sproles on the second day.

I think THAT would be a much better pick than Spiller at 11. I like CJ, but RB is not a dire need. Holliday is projected as a 6th round pick right now. If he's available at our pick in the 6th, I think we should definitely grab him. I think our picks are going to go like this in the first 3 rounds:

11: WR (Dez Bryant WR Oklahoma State)
43:C/G (Possibly:Matt Tenant C Boston College )
45:ILB/C/G Possibly:Sean Lee ILB Penn State or Brandon Spikes ILB Florida (If we don't take an ILB here, we'll take whatever we don't draft at 43)

chaz
04-14-2010, 07:17 PM
If Spiller was just a running back I'd agree with you Zona but he is a great receiver out of the backfield and a stellar return man To steal a phrase from TJ "He's a three tool player"

Spiller could account for 30 to 40 of Marshall's receptions

I think 40 catches is very fair, and I also think we forget that Spiller would enable Eddie to get back to focusing on WR. No more missing plays...we NEED him to fill the Welker-type consistent role this year. A 100-catches from Eddie would make Brandon's departure pretty smooth, and Spiller could enable that.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-14-2010, 07:18 PM
If you think about it in terms of Moreno being a bust, it makes a ton of sense.

chaz
04-14-2010, 07:19 PM
Matt Millen thinks its a great idea.

The first anti-Spiller argument that actually made me think. Touche sir.

However, too many people focus on the fact that it's two RBs though....position is so arbitrary. Give me playmakers in every draft and I bet you'll have a competitive football team at the end of the day. McD can find ways to get both guys 20+ touches throughout games...there is so much versatility it would be very easy to do.

Steve Sewell
04-14-2010, 07:21 PM
If you think about it in terms of Moreno being a bust, it makes a ton of sense.

Why do people think Moreno is a bust?

baja
04-14-2010, 07:22 PM
If you think about it in terms of Moreno being a bust, it makes a ton of sense.

You are not allowed to use the word bust here

Requiem
04-14-2010, 07:22 PM
Spiller is not just a running back.

He will catch the ball. Line up in the slot, run past linebackers and make them wish their mamas hid their toys better.

He will score on returns.

That said, the Broncos have worked out a ton of other prospects who can do that as well. We will be adding a dynamic offensive weapon to our team. Bank on it homies.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-14-2010, 07:25 PM
Why do people think Moreno is a bust?

At 3.8 yards per carry and 0 100-yard games he's closer to bust than stud.

Steve Sewell
04-14-2010, 08:15 PM
At 3.8 yards per carry and 0 100-yard games he's closer to bust than stud.

He was a rookie last year sharing time with Buckhalter with a depleted o-line...

lex
04-14-2010, 08:30 PM
He was a rookie last year sharing time with Buckhalter with a depleted o-line...

He didnt really create anything when he did have chances though. Yeah, the Oline struggled but Moreno also didnt really show anything either on the chances that were there. He was good at stumling and then slapping the football though.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-14-2010, 08:40 PM
He was a rookie last year sharing time with Buckhalter with a depleted o-line...

Yep, keep making excuses.

ZONA
04-15-2010, 01:48 AM
OK, I want to continue on with this debate. I've watched alot of videos on all of these players and while I do think CJ Spiller has a little more special in his step if you will, I still don't think he's head and shoulders better then a few of these guys, when you factor in where they likely will be drafted.

Let's start with some OFFICIAL combine times becuase we all want somebody with electric speed.

I'm going to use these 4 guys as the best players that are the fastest players. There might be a few more but these guys are football players that are fast and not just track guys.

Jacoby Ford 4.28
Trindon Holliday 4.34
Jahvid Best 4.35
CJ Spiller 4.37

Now let's see their projected draft position. I went ahead and increased the selection range further down the rounds.

Spiller - #10 - #20
Best - #30 - #45
Ford - #90 - #120
Holliday - #150 - #200

Spiller and Best are probably the better pro prospects due to them playing RB and having a body that would hold up better with NFL sized men hitting them. Ford plays WR/KR but is a little on the small side, while Holliday seems to be more of a pure KR and doesn't have a true position as a RB or WR, and he is ultra small at only 5'5. I think the mock drafts show this trend accurately as Best and Spiller are projected in the first 2 rounds, while Ford should go in the 3rd and Holliday maybe late 4th or 5th.


So let me ask the Spiller lovers out there. What does Spiller do that is so much more impressive then Best to justify picking him at #11. It's not his speed because Best actually ran the faster combine time. And I've watched plenty of video on both guys and it seems to me they both appear to be quite electric on the field. Both cut well and make people miss, break a few tackles, can set up blocks well and catch out of the backfield. I'll give the pro scouts their due and I will say that Spiller is better then Best, but is he that much better and why? Why would you rather have Spiller at #11 rather then Best with our pick #43.

Wouldn't you rather trade back from #11 and use that pick on a top notch OL like Iupati or Pouncy (or who ever you like), get the extra 2nd round pick and hopefully it's a tad higher then #43, and select Best. Wouldn't you agree that getting 2 players such as Iupati and Best would be better value then Spiller at #11?

watermock
04-15-2010, 02:08 AM
Spiller is multitask.

Beavis won't take another RB, altho he's more verstile.


The real question is will Beavis question himself like he did with the DL.

It's not Moreno ****. Beavis made it.

Denver needs an all around skill player. Moreno doesn't do it.

~Crash~
04-15-2010, 02:10 AM
Spiller Sucks

~Crash~
04-15-2010, 02:12 AM
Spiller is not just a running back.

He will catch the ball. Line up in the slot, run past linebackers and make them wish their mamas hid their toys better.

He will score on returns.

That said, the Broncos have worked out a ton of other prospects who can do that as well. We will be adding a dynamic offensive weapon to our team. Bank on it homies.

With all that said you still are a **** head !

watermock
04-15-2010, 02:13 AM
I have nothing against best other than injury.

I just think Beavis is an idiot that won't draft a high RB again.

In fact, I gurantee it.

~Crash~
04-15-2010, 02:13 AM
**** off the bitch that says differnt

lex
04-15-2010, 02:21 AM
OK, I want to continue on with this debate. I've watched alot of videos on all of these players and while I do think CJ Spiller has a little more special in his step if you will, I still don't think he's head and shoulders better then a few of these guys, when you factor in where they likely will be drafted.

Let's start with some OFFICIAL combine times becuase we all want somebody with electric speed.

I'm going to use these 4 guys as the best players that are the fastest players. There might be a few more but these guys are football players that are fast and not just track guys.

Jacoby Ford 4.28
Trindon Holliday 4.34
Jahvid Best 4.35
CJ Spiller 4.37

Now let's see their projected draft position. I went ahead and increased the selection range further down the rounds.

Spiller - #10 - #20
Best - #30 - #45
Ford - #90 - #120
Holliday - #150 - #200

Spiller and Best are probably the better pro prospects due to them playing RB and having a body that would hold up better with NFL sized men hitting them. Ford plays WR/KR but is a little on the small side, while Holliday seems to be more of a pure KR and doesn't have a true position as a RB or WR, and he is ultra small at only 5'5. I think the mock drafts show this trend accurately as Best and Spiller are projected in the first 2 rounds, while Ford should go in the 3rd and Holliday maybe late 4th or 5th.


So let me ask the Spiller lovers out there. What does Spiller do that is so much more impressive then Best to justify picking him at #11. It's not his speed because Best actually ran the faster combine time. And I've watched plenty of video on both guys and it seems to me they both appear to be quite electric on the field. Both cut well and make people miss, break a few tackles, can set up blocks well and catch out of the backfield. I'll give the pro scouts their due and I will say that Spiller is better then Best, but is he that much better and why? Why would you rather have Spiller at #11 rather then Best with our pick #43.

Wouldn't you rather trade back from #11 and use that pick on a top notch OL like Iupati or Pouncy (or who ever you like), get the extra 2nd round pick and hopefully it's a tad higher then #43, and select Best. Wouldn't you agree that getting 2 players such as Iupati and Best would be better value then Spiller at #11?



People shouldnt trust those 40 times. They put together a video showing Taylor Mays was faster than Jahvid Best even though Mays only got credit for a 4.4. I actually think in straight line speed, Spiller is faster but its slight. Youre talking about one guy who has run the 100 in 10.3s and another who has run in the 10.2s. I think Best is also explosive but I think Spiller is a little more fluid in how he runs...but again its not a massive difference.

Where I think the difference is more distinct based on how they performed in college is that, I think Spiller can do more things. I think Spiller can run routes and catch the ball effortlessly like he's a WR a lot of times. Ive seen Spiller catch the ball over his shoulder where he had to track it while running. He's good with that. If you split Spiller out or run him out of the backfield against a LB, I feel much more confident in Spiller making plays. Im not saying Best cant, but Ive seen Spiller do it, and that matters. Also, its hard to match Spiller as a returner. He makes fast teams look slow.

I think what has been seen mostly from Best is a guy who is an I back. Do you really see Best running the ball carrying the ball that much in the NFL his first year or two? Maybe but he's more likely to be a change of pace guy--like Spiller.

Both are at a size where what Spiller did in college translates more to the NFL...at least their first years.

Im not averse to Best. I actually think he's a little undervalued because of how this past season went. If he had come out the year before, i think he'd be a first round RB to a lot of people.

But again, I go back to what players like this can give relative to what they did in college.

I actually think both could end up being a 15ish carry per game running back at some point. But it may not be their first year or two. It could happen this year if they adapt to the pro game. Sometimes that happens when they actually get coaching. Coaching in college is hit or miss. I think the upside this year as far as carrying the ball for both is for them to carry around 200 times (about 12.5 times per game) but thats only if theyre successful, meaning that if you see either guy get that many carries, it will mean theyre getting around 1000 yards because both will have high APCs if they get the ball that much. But thats the upside. I think more realistically, Spiller will have a greater impact because of the other things he does.

Thats my comparison and contrast of Spiller and Best.

You asked does it makes sense. And the answer to that is yes, it does. It makes a lot of sense. But its also not like there's only one good choice.

The only thing that would send me into orbit would be if they draft Bryant or Clausen.

watermock
04-15-2010, 02:32 AM
Who knows.

Beavis will probably take a blocking TE or CB..

ZONA
04-15-2010, 04:15 AM
People shouldnt trust those 40 times. They put together a video showing Taylor Mays was faster than Jahvid Best even though Mays only got credit for a 4.4. I actually think in straight line speed, Spiller is faster but its slight. Youre talking about one guy who has run the 100 in 10.3s and another who has run in the 10.2s. I think Best is also explosive but I think Spiller is a little more fluid in how he runs...but again its not a massive difference.

Where I think the difference is more distinct based on how they performed in college is that, I think Spiller can do more things. I think Spiller can run routes and catch the ball effortlessly like he's a WR a lot of times. Ive seen Spiller catch the ball over his shoulder where he had to track it while running. He's good with that. If you split Spiller out or run him out of the backfield against a LB, I feel much more confident in Spiller making plays. Im not saying Best cant, but Ive seen Spiller do it, and that matters. Also, its hard to match Spiller as a returner. He makes fast teams look slow.

I think what has been seen mostly from Best is a guy who is an I back. Do you really see Best running the ball carrying the ball that much in the NFL his first year or two? Maybe but he's more likely to be a change of pace guy--like Spiller.

Both are at a size where what Spiller did in college translates more to the NFL...at least their first years.

Im not averse to Best. I actually think he's a little undervalued because of how this past season went. If he had come out the year before, i think he'd be a first round RB to a lot of people.

But again, I go back to what players like this can give relative to what they did in college.

I actually think both could end up being a 15ish carry per game running back at some point. But it may not be their first year or two. It could happen this year if they adapt to the pro game. Sometimes that happens when they actually get coaching. Coaching in college is hit or miss. I think the upside this year as far as carrying the ball for both is for them to carry around 200 times (about 12.5 times per game) but thats only if theyre successful, meaning that if you see either guy get that many carries, it will mean theyre getting around 1000 yards because both will have high APCs if they get the ball that much. But thats the upside. I think more realistically, Spiller will have a greater impact because of the other things he does.

Thats my comparison and contrast of Spiller and Best.

You asked does it makes sense. And the answer to that is yes, it does. It makes a lot of sense. But its also not like there's only one good choice.

The only thing that would send me into orbit would be if they draft Bryant or Clausen.

Solid points you make but Spiller will run into the same problems Moreno did unless we get some really good interior offensive linemen. So if your vote is to stay at #11 and take Spiller, if he is there, rather then trade back in the first and acquiring an addition 2nd round pick. You can't ignore the fact we need good interior linemen so I assume you would want to address that with our 2nd pick. That means you would not be addressing our need for a WR until our 3rd pick. If you're fine with going into next season with the 4th or 5th best WR in this draft, along with Royal and Gaffney, then you have more faith in that receiving core then I would.

I think the Broncos can't afford to not draft either Byrant (although I don't want him at #11), Benn or Tate. I think the drop off after those 3 is enough to suggest there would be serious concerns for next season regarding the receiving core. I don't think Spiller would fill the loss of Marshall. He might help some but he's not a WR and he's not going to fill that void.

long beach bronco
04-15-2010, 06:59 AM
I hate the draft because I always want to draft everybody and we only have one pick per round. There are so many good guys to choose from it makes your head spin. Both Zona and Lex make great points about both Spiller and Best. The only reason I would take Spiller is because I don't trust that Best will be there at #43, somebody is already salivating over him and he will be gone by the time we pick at #43, don't be shocked if Best is picked in the late first round. Those two are dynamic and I would take my chances with Spiller and immediately address guard and WR with my next two picks. Next Thursday is going to be nerve racking.

UberBroncoMan
04-15-2010, 07:16 AM
Best move is to trade that 11 pick and move back --

We need more second round picks to fill the holes.

Our big needs: G, C, WR, DL, ILB

I'd take a lower 1st + a 2nd round pick for our 11th pick in a heartbeat.

4 picks in the 1st and 2nd round? Yes please! Just a shame we don't have the Alphonso Smith pick for this ridiculously deep draft.

lex
04-15-2010, 07:17 AM
Solid points you make but Spiller will run into the same problems Moreno did unless we get some really good interior offensive linemen. So if your vote is to stay at #11 and take Spiller, if he is there, rather then trade back in the first and acquiring an addition 2nd round pick. You can't ignore the fact we need good interior linemen so I assume you would want to address that with our 2nd pick. That means you would not be addressing our need for a WR until our 3rd pick. If you're fine with going into next season with the 4th or 5th best WR in this draft, along with Royal and Gaffney, then you have more faith in that receiving core then I would.

I think the Broncos can't afford to not draft either Byrant (although I don't want him at #11), Benn or Tate. I think the drop off after those 3 is enough to suggest there would be serious concerns for next season regarding the receiving core. I don't think Spiller would fill the loss of Marshall. He might help some but he's not a WR and he's not going to fill that void.

Thats not true...at least not as much. Youd be misutilizing Spiller if you used him the way Moreno was exclusively. Secondly, our runs to the edge, that Buckhalter was effective with, would be even more lethal because Spiller's a much better open field runner and a lot faster than Buchhalter. Basically, it would be wrong to expect Spiller to be even more effective than Moreno at dive plays except to say those rare occasions when Moreno did get to the next level, Id expect more to happen with Spiller. Moreno didnt really do a lot at the second level when the chances were there.

And like I said, Spiller is great in the return game. Best is pretty good too but I think Spiller really excels here. The guy's game speed is so much faster than even fast college teams that, its hard to imagine the speed of the pro game even being much of a problem.

And just think how good Spiller could be with some coaching. For whatever reason, that doesnt seem to go on at Clemson. Clemson always has awesome athletes that their level of play doesnt line up with. I wouldnt totally rule out Spiller being a big surprise at RB. With coaching, he might surprise a lot of people in that regard and it might even happen this year.

BTW, another reason I like Spiller is because I once saw him interviewed and say that he's more laid back...I actually think he was explaining why he liked being at Clemson. It doesnt seem like he's looking to go big time and leave Denver because he thinks its more self serving to go to New York or a bigger market. If what he's said is true, its seems Denver would suit him. Also, I like that he's loyal. Early in his career he had misgivings about being at Clemson and spoke of transferring to Florida but he also could have gone pro and said he would stay at Clemson if they kept Swinney as the head coach. They did and he stayed for his senior year. I think thats another thing supporting the idea that he's not going to be some "Prime Time"...he could have gone after the money but didnt...so the guy has other values as well. So basically, I think he's an amazing talent...a walking home run, that would be well suited to play in Denver.

lex
04-15-2010, 07:36 AM
Solid points you make but Spiller will run into the same problems Moreno did unless we get some really good interior offensive linemen. So if your vote is to stay at #11 and take Spiller, if he is there, rather then trade back in the first and acquiring an addition 2nd round pick. You can't ignore the fact we need good interior linemen so I assume you would want to address that with our 2nd pick. That means you would not be addressing our need for a WR until our 3rd pick. If you're fine with going into next season with the 4th or 5th best WR in this draft, along with Royal and Gaffney, then you have more faith in that receiving core then I would.

I think the Broncos can't afford to not draft either Byrant (although I don't want him at #11), Benn or Tate. I think the drop off after those 3 is enough to suggest there would be serious concerns for next season regarding the receiving core. I don't think Spiller would fill the loss of Marshall. He might help some but he's not a WR and he's not going to fill that void.

Im responding in two posts since my other one was lengthy.

BTW, I know McDonalds thinks highly of Royal. Ive heard him dote on Eddie more than once and I think that what youll see is Royal becoming a #1. That doesnt mean it will be at the X position. I think youll see them funneling the ball to Eddie a lot. The Ehrhart Perkins offense has mostly used smallish WRs who were good route runners. Thats Royal. I think he will be the #1 and I think there are multiple reasons why he saw less output last year. I think play design favored Marshall in that regard. With that in mind, I think Orton had a greater tendency to target/lock onto Marshall. I think Royal ran more deep routes and Orton was looking at Marshall anyway and I dont think he really feels confident throwing deep as much...or maybe it was just play designe and having Marshall. Either way, I think the game will be funneled to Royal more. I would also not rule out McKinley stepping up. Spurrier said McKinley is the best route runner he has ever had. If they draft a WR, I think it should be someone like Ford who is so fast that if they dont defend the deep pass, his speed will make him even more wide open.

If you draft Benn or Bryant, I think youre taking away from Eddie. I think Benn and Bryant are similar to Marshall. I know everyone is big on Bryants athleticism but he runs a 4.5, which is similar to Marshall. And lets be honest, the Big 12 isnt exactly known for playing pass defense. So, I really see Benn and Bryant being bubble screen guys similar to Marshall, who we let walk away. But I dont really even think you can assume theyre as good as Marshall, who is pretty awesome. Again, I think in terms of where the offesne is, I think someone like Ford is the best choice.

If they were to draft Spiller, I wouldnt be averse to moving up to take Pouncey, if he can start right away. I also wouldnt be averse to taking Walton or Tennant, provided they can start right away. Nor would I have a problem with Ducasse in the 2nd either.

It sucks to see Marshall go because he was the biggest asset we had on offense, aside from Clady maybe. Marshall was the most McDaniels-proof player. He was the one who was so good the changes didnt stop him from being effective. But, I also dont think its the end of the world in that it provides the opportunity to reconstitute the roster. Im not the biggest fan of your best player being WRs. It ties into the building a team front to back idea that we've been complaining about for so long, even though it has mostly been about defense. So, while I think they should have kept him without getting a first, I also think this is, again, an opportunity to reconsitute the line up by not having a lot of salarey tied up at a position is not the most critical, in theory. But having said, that it all depends on where they go from here. I think drating Bryant at 11 spits in the face of every reason why letting Marshall walk could potentially make sense or could possibly be justified.

long beach bronco
04-15-2010, 07:46 AM
I hope we draft Spiller now.

chaz
04-15-2010, 11:19 AM
Solid points you make but Spiller will run into the same problems Moreno did unless we get some really good interior offensive linemen. So if your vote is to stay at #11 and take Spiller, if he is there, rather then trade back in the first and acquiring an addition 2nd round pick. You can't ignore the fact we need good interior linemen so I assume you would want to address that with our 2nd pick. That means you would not be addressing our need for a WR until our 3rd pick. If you're fine with going into next season with the 4th or 5th best WR in this draft, along with Royal and Gaffney, then you have more faith in that receiving core then I would.


Please tell me who in their right mind would give up a first and second in this draft to move up in the first? I'm blown away by the ease of which people think we'll just trade back, no problem.

PRBronco
04-15-2010, 11:23 AM
Please tell me who in their right mind would give up a first and second in this draft to move up in the first? I'm blown away by the ease of which people think we'll just trade back, no problem.

The only way I see something like that happening is a team that runs a 4-3 that is desperate to get Derrick Morgan (I think the Seahawks, Titans, Giants and maybe even Falcons) because of the dearth of legit DEs.

Beantown Bronco
04-15-2010, 11:24 AM
I don't think teams mind that. It's not like they would have to actually tackle him if he caught a pass. All they need to do is get close to him and he would just fall down. :thanku:

Hey, don't knock it. That philosophy helped the Rams win a SB awhile back. I've never seen a team throw that much across the middle and NEVER have their receivers take a big hit.

baja
04-15-2010, 11:38 AM
Please tell me who in their right mind would give up a first and second in this draft to move up in the first? I'm blown away by the ease of which people think we'll just trade back, no problem.

Actually if there is a spot that is ideal for a team to want to move up to it is #11. It is just one removed from the top ten where the big contracts are demanded and usually some top ten player that someone really wants or needs will fall to that spot.

ScottXray
04-15-2010, 12:15 PM
Dropping back just a bit makes some sense. Obviously Center/Guard
needs to be a priority, but taking one at 11 is crazy. Still you have to have a trade partner to do that , and the players that are on the board when we get to that spot are what is going to be the driver. If a team wants someone at 11 and they are still there they might make an offer. Or maybe not.

I also think that taking Bryant at 11 would cause a general melt down by bronco fans, and would rightfully be directed at the management. Yes, we need to address WR , but after trading away BM, it would be rediculous that we would take another somewhat problem child WR, especially with our only first (after having failed to get one for BM). And no other WR is considered
in that range for the pick.

I agree that Spiller seems to be an incredible weapon, and if he is still on the board when our pick comes, will be tempting. And I don't think it matters whether we took Moreno last year in more or less the same spot. McD will probably take whoever he thinks will give the greatest bang for the buck, and improve the team the most. If he thinks he can get the O-linemen he wants with our second rounders he might pull the trigger. And I also think that McKinley just might have a break out season at WR also.

The other key is whether we think SD is targeting him. They have a need for RB and might move up trying to get him, especially if we don't and pass. Frankly, Spiller looks like he is going to be a nightmare for defenses to handle.

The key will be whether McD thinks he needs those two line positions more than a breakaway weapon. He does, but he also likes to take chances at times. The melt down on draft day is going to be classic, no matter WHO we get, because everyone has their opinion, and the mane is a free-expression site.

dbfan21
04-15-2010, 12:16 PM
It's not real tricky to figure out the teams most intrigued by Gerhart's skill set. He has visited running back-needy San Diego, as well as Philadelphia and Baltimore in recent days, and conducted private workouts for Denver and the New York Jets. I think New England has him on its radar screen too, maybe if only to allow Belichick to finally get past that Vardell pick of 18 years ago. No less a Patriots observer than ex-linebacker Tedy Bruschi said at a recent ESPN draft preview that Gerhart is Belichick's type of player.

"He's a guy that runs hard,'' Bruschi said. "The way Bill likes to see running backs run is 'Get yardage. Just get what you can get and then get out. So run straight up the field.' This is what this kid is. You see him running through guys, straight up the field, north-south. Get the yards. Stop dancing and then here we go: Second-and-2, second-and-1. That's what everybody wants.''

My hunch is the Broncos and Chargers are higher on Gerhart than anyone, and are hoping he's there for them in the second round, especially in Denver, which now owns an extra second-rounder (43rd overall) thanks to Wednesday's Brandon Marshall trade. And just how cool would it be if the Broncos were to take a player who wore No. 7 at Stanford, just like an ex-Denver quarterback named John Elway?

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/don_banks/04/15/toby.gerhart/1.html#ixzz0lC5hYAuM
Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription


Just thought this tidbit from Don Banks was interesting. With Moreno, Buck and Gerhart in the backfield, that could be pretty good.

lex
04-15-2010, 12:23 PM
It's not real tricky to figure out the teams most intrigued by Gerhart's skill set. He has visited running back-needy San Diego, as well as Philadelphia and Baltimore in recent days, and conducted private workouts for Denver and the New York Jets. I think New England has him on its radar screen too, maybe if only to allow Belichick to finally get past that Vardell pick of 18 years ago. No less a Patriots observer than ex-linebacker Tedy Bruschi said at a recent ESPN draft preview that Gerhart is Belichick's type of player.

"He's a guy that runs hard,'' Bruschi said. "The way Bill likes to see running backs run is 'Get yardage. Just get what you can get and then get out. So run straight up the field.' This is what this kid is. You see him running through guys, straight up the field, north-south. Get the yards. Stop dancing and then here we go: Second-and-2, second-and-1. That's what everybody wants.''

My hunch is the Broncos and Chargers are higher on Gerhart than anyone, and are hoping he's there for them in the second round, especially in Denver, which now owns an extra second-rounder (43rd overall) thanks to Wednesday's Brandon Marshall trade. And just how cool would it be if the Broncos were to take a player who wore No. 7 at Stanford, just like an ex-Denver quarterback named John Elway?

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/don_banks/04/15/toby.gerhart/1.html#ixzz0lC5hYAuM
Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription


Just thought this tidbit from Don Banks was interesting. With Moreno, Buck and Gerhart in the backfield, that could be pretty good.

The guy might be right about the Broncos being high on Gerhart but you wonder if this part, "And just how cool would it be if the Broncos were to take a player who wore No. 7 at Stanford, just like an ex-Denver quarterback named John Elway?" is biasing his analysis. Sports writers love stuff like this.

lex
04-15-2010, 12:24 PM
Dropping back just a bit makes some sense. Obviously Center/Guard
needs to be a priority, but taking one at 11 is crazy. Still you have to have a trade partner to do that , and the players that are on the board when we get to that spot are what is going to be the driver. If a team wants someone at 11 and they are still there they might make an offer. Or maybe not.

I also think that taking Bryant at 11 would cause a general melt down by bronco fans, and would rightfully be directed at the management. Yes, we need to address WR , but after trading away BM, it would be rediculous that we would take another somewhat problem child WR, especially with our only first (after having failed to get one for BM). And no other WR is considered
in that range for the pick.

I agree that Spiller seems to be an incredible weapon, and if he is still on the board when our pick comes, will be tempting. And I don't think it matters whether we took Moreno last year in more or less the same spot. McD will probably take whoever he thinks will give the greatest bang for the buck, and improve the team the most. If he thinks he can get the O-linemen he wants with our second rounders he might pull the trigger. And I also think that McKinley just might have a break out season at WR also.

The other key is whether we think SD is targeting him. They have a need for RB and might move up trying to get him, especially if we don't and pass. Frankly, Spiller looks like he is going to be a nightmare for defenses to handle.

The key will be whether McD thinks he needs those two line positions more than a breakaway weapon. He does, but he also likes to take chances at times. The melt down on draft day is going to be classic, no matter WHO we get, because everyone has their opinion, and the mane is a free-expression site.

I dont think San Diego is targeting him because they have Sproles. I think theyre more into guys like Gerhart and Hardesty.

Taco John
04-15-2010, 12:26 PM
I think we need to give Moreno another year before we declare he's a bust and draft another first round runningback.

gyldenlove
04-15-2010, 12:33 PM
I'd take a lower 1st + a 2nd round pick for our 11th pick in a heartbeat.

4 picks in the 1st and 2nd round? Yes please! Just a shame we don't have the Alphonso Smith pick for this ridiculously deep draft.

We could end up with 5 picks in the top 2 rounds like last year, but unless we do something much better than we did last year we still won't have any difference makers.

dbfan21
04-15-2010, 12:36 PM
The guy might be right about the Broncos being high on Gerhart but you wonder if this part, "And just how cool would it be if the Broncos were to take a player who wore No. 7 at Stanford, just like an ex-Denver quarterback named John Elway?" is biasing his analysis. Sports writers love stuff like this.

I know. It's like they look for the cute little bow to put on top of the package. I am more intrigued by the Broncos' interest in Gerhart and what will happen if he's still on the board at 45. We can always find solid o-linemen at 80 and beyond.

11. McClain, ILB
43. Benn, WR
45. Gerhart, RB

Not too bad, I suppose. But then again, what the hell do I know? (Not much). There, I said it...and beat you hyenas to it! LOL

baja
04-15-2010, 12:41 PM
I think we need to give Moreno another year before we declare he's a bust and draft another first round runningback.

Spiller will not impede Moreno's carries