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gyldenlove
04-14-2010, 08:38 AM
The fact that Parcells was willing to take on Marshall and his troubles and distractions is a head scratcher for me.

Just goes to show that a great coach is willing to accept a bit or static to have a great WR, like Bill Belichik and Parcells.

bronco militia
04-14-2010, 08:39 AM
Marshall gets $24 million guaranteed

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 14, 2010 11:34 AM ET

Brandon Marshall wanted $10-million-per-year, and he got it.

Adam Schefter of ESPN reports Marshall will get $50 million over the next five years as part of a four-year, $47 million extension tacked on to his scheduled $2.5 million salary in 2010.

The deal includes $24 million in guaranteed money, and close to $29 million in the first three years of the contract. It's not backloaded, although we're looking forward to seeing more details to learn if there are any natural outs for Miami if things don't go well.

This deal essentially matches Larry Fitzgerald's last contract and arguably makes Marshall the league's highest paid receiver, depending on you count the money.

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2010, 08:40 AM
NE was able to perform because they had HOF QB. Talent on field beats coaching systems.

We took a hit on talent, Denver needs to get lucky (like all teams do) and find some talent in draft.

Brady is a HOF talent now. When they won their first SB? Not even close.

400HZ
04-14-2010, 08:41 AM
Congrats. Denver got pretty good compensation for a player that they clearly had to trade after all his bull**** antics. McDaniels pretending that he would keep Marshall if he didn't get a good offer was a bluff all the way. He couldn't stand that pos, and rightfully so.

I'd predict that this trade turns out similar to the Cutler deal. Dolphins fans will start despising him in short order and many Denver fans will pine for the glorious days of Brandon Marshall 8-8 teams instead of Jabar Gaffney or Dez Bryant 8-8 teams. And hopefully the Broncos blow the draft picks again. :flower:

Steve Sewell
04-14-2010, 08:41 AM
You ask me if I watched the game? How many picks for td's did the offense give up? Answer is two . 14 points in key situations because no wr on the offense could get separation. You're a joke dude.

So 2 picks were because Marshall wasn't in the game. Got it.

Rabb
04-14-2010, 08:41 AM
Just goes to show that a great coach is willing to accept a bit or static to have a great WR, like Bill Belichik and Parcells.

I am pretty sure this front office was willing to accept the static, what they weren't willing to accept was putting the team at financial risk by gambling on said static with a bunch of up front money.

Why nobody sees this is a mystery to me. And don't think for a second that this wasn't a full front office decision and one fiscally driven.

Steve Sewell
04-14-2010, 08:42 AM
one problem their champ ...... Orton is no Brady.

I'm talking about McD's mentality about building his offense. Nothing more, nothing less.

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 08:42 AM
Just goes to show that a great coach is willing to accept a bit or static to have a great WR, like Bill Belichik and Parcells.

I remember Mike Shanahan gambling on a bunch of players with questionable attitudes. He put this team in the financial **** hole for years.

kamakazi_kal
04-14-2010, 08:44 AM
Oh bull****. Go back and watch that practice video. Go back and read about other players demanding that the coach bench the guy for a game. Now that he's gone, people are going to try to turn the guy into ****ing Gunga Din. Ha!

That never happened. Your confused. The article you refer to went out of its way to point out the fact Marshall was not named by the team captians. They asked for accoutability in general the next day Marsh showed up 15 minutes late for treatment on his injury ..... that's what got him benched but, nice try.

TailgateNut
04-14-2010, 08:44 AM
Whether you agree or not, it's something BB has said before. In other words, his position has been consistent, which was his point about the mythologizing. Most of the folks bagging on BM were doing so before the trade.


Very true. BB has made it clear throughout the season that BM wasn't the next Jerry Rice, and I have also made it clear for the past few years that BM had to go if he didn't chance his childish ways.

Good Ridance.

bowtown
04-14-2010, 08:44 AM
I remember Mike Shanahan gambling on a bunch of players with questionable attitudes. He put this team in the financial **** hole for years.

I was thinking about that the other day and trying to figure out if a single one of those gambles ever payed off.

baja
04-14-2010, 08:46 AM
I bet the Broncos locker room is happy this saga is over.

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 08:46 AM
That never happened. Your confused. The article you refer to went out of its way to point out the fact Marshall was not named by the team captians. They asked for accoutability in general the next day Marsh showed up 15 minutes late for treatment on his injury ..... that's what got him benched but, nice try.

You mean they didn't point out one particular player by name? wink wink Yeah, right. And Marshall slacking off the next day and getting benched was a coincidence? Hey, I believe you. :~ohyah!:

elsid13
04-14-2010, 08:46 AM
I remember Mike Shanahan gambling on a bunch of players with questionable attitudes. He put this team in the financial **** hole for years.

What are you talking about? When did Denver ever have to have salary purge? At no time was Denver unable to go out and get talent for this team.

DenverBrit
04-14-2010, 08:47 AM
I was thinking about that the other day and trying to figure out if a single one of those gambles ever payed off.

None come to mind.

Is it too late to jump up and down and whine and b*tch about them and hope he fails? ;D

Ray Finkle
04-14-2010, 08:47 AM
Marshall and South Beach....yeah that is a great combo for him.

TheDave
04-14-2010, 08:47 AM
I bet the Broncos locker room is happy this saga is over.

If they win, then yes.

If we lose, no... not so much.

WABronco
04-14-2010, 08:47 AM
Meh. When I was driving home yesterday listening to Seattle sports radio, I was becoming very aggravated by the thought that we might be giving up Brandon for less than a first.

And to be honest, I'm still a little ticked thinking about it. We just gave up our hands-down best player for a couple of second round picks. But, apparently, that's how **** works in today's NFL. Have to keep in mind he wasn't returning after this year, most likely, and there was a reason all this started in the first place. Two early 2nd's isn't exactly a bad thing, though. We can get some solid talent there.

I'm going to enjoy listening to the Seattle radio again today. Hear them whine and cry about how "oh we thought we were the only ones" some more and how it was like their birth right that Brandon would be traded to them. How's it feel knowing you gave up your chance to acquire an elite talent by trading for Charlie F'kin Whitehurst?

gunns
04-14-2010, 08:48 AM
Sorry gaffney is no game changer. He has his moments but cmon their not even in the same class.

WR's are rarely the reason a team wins a game. It takes a team, something we all found out with Elway....each position has it's importance. That being said, Orton is thrilled Stokely and Marshall did what they did last season. With the intangibles with Marshall, I can live with him going. Personally I think the WR position is one of the least of our problems.

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 08:48 AM
What are you talking about? When did Denver ever have to have salary purge? At no time was Denver unable to go out and get talent for this team.

How many contracts did Shanahan leave us dragging around like anchors for years? Where do you live, in Wonderland?

DenverBrit
04-14-2010, 08:49 AM
I bet the Broncos locker room is happy this saga is over.

I am!!

But it's not over here, not for another year based on the Cutler trade and the enormous capacity some have for 'hating.'

kamakazi_kal
04-14-2010, 08:49 AM
You mean they didn't point out one particular player by name? wink wink Yeah, right. And Marshall slacking off the next day and getting benched was a coincidence? Hey, I believe you. :~ohyah!:

I'm just saying your bending the story to suit you .... and you still are.

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 08:50 AM
Meh. When I was driving home yesterday listening to Seattle sports radio, I was becoming very aggravated by the thought that we might be giving up Brandon for less than a first.

And to be honest, I'm still a little ticked thinking about it. We just gave up our hands-down best player for a couple of second round picks. But, apparently, that's how **** works in today's NFL. Have to keep in mind he wasn't returning after this year, most likely, and there was a reason all this started in the first place. Two early 2nd's isn't exactly a bad thing, though. We can get some solid talent there.

I'm going to enjoy listening to the Seattle radio again today. Hear them whine and cry about how "oh we thought we were the only ones" some more and how it was like their birth right that Brandon would be traded to them. How's it feel knowing you gave up your chance to acquire an elite talent by trading for Charlie F'kin Whitehurst?

Paul Allen is going to make the FO of the Seahawks fill up the tank on his seaplane.

Chief Macho
04-14-2010, 08:51 AM
So 2 picks were because Marshall wasn't in the game. Got it.

Pretty much. No wrs on the field could get open. Much more likely than your conspiracy theory of Mcdaniels trying to prove a point with Gaffney.

Ray Finkle
04-14-2010, 08:51 AM
Meh. When I was driving home yesterday listening to Seattle sports radio, I was becoming very aggravated by the thought that we might be giving up Brandon for less than a first.

And to be honest, I'm still a little ticked thinking about it. We just gave up our hands-down best player for a couple of second round picks. But, apparently, that's how **** works in today's NFL. Have to keep in mind he wasn't returning after this year, most likely, and there was a reason all this started in the first place. Two early 2nd's isn't exactly a bad thing, though. We can get some solid talent there.

I'm going to enjoy listening to the Seattle radio again today. Hear them whine and cry about how "oh we thought we were the only ones" some more and how it was like their birth right that Brandon would be traded to them. How's it feel knowing you gave up your chance to acquire an elite talent by trading for Charlie F'kin Whitehurst?


you can only trade him for what people are offering.....if he didn't have some many question marks, he'd have gone for a better package.

elsid13
04-14-2010, 08:51 AM
How many contracts did Shanahan leave us dragging around like anchors for years? Where do you live, in Wonderland?

Which contract stop Denver for getting a player they wanted? Shanahan kept the cap in control and was able to put a respectable team on the field. The cap management done in Denver was far better then most of the teams in the league.

Steve Sewell
04-14-2010, 08:52 AM
How many contracts did Shanahan leave us dragging around like anchors for years? Where do you live, in Wonderland?

LOL was gonna say the same thing. Our cap position was always poor. Contracts to sign big name free agents were really wonky, too.

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 08:52 AM
I'm just saying your bending the story to suit you .... and you still are.

You're bending the story to suit you. It sounded to me pretty obvious at the time who that whole "discussion" was aimed at. The result was obvious, at any rate. Didn't you watch that practice tape? I mean seriously, WTF? ??? Do you think Brandon was a locker room leader or something?

DenverBrit
04-14-2010, 08:53 AM
Which contract stop Denver for getting a player they wanted? Shanahan kept the cap in control and was able to put a respectable team on the field. The cap management done in Denver was far better then most of the teams in the league.

That was the problem. 10 years of 'respectable' and nothing more.

kamakazi_kal
04-14-2010, 08:53 AM
I bet the Broncos locker room is happy this saga is over.

I'm glad it's freaking over. They have to be poppin the bubbly.

I cringe to think what the next saga maybe though .... wins cure all so lets get some .... I gotta hope Mcd has a plan other then a locker room full of nice average players.

TheReverend
04-14-2010, 08:55 AM
I remember Mike Shanahan gambling on a bunch of players with questionable attitudes. He put this team in the financial **** hole for years.

Socal has a great article on how Denver was one of the (if not THE) top teams as far wins:dollars-spent ratios go.

Soooooooo... I see your point, but the reality is a 180 in the other direction.

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2010, 08:55 AM
Maybe Cutler can finally sell his house now that he doesn't have any riff raff squatting in his basement.

kamakazi_kal
04-14-2010, 08:56 AM
You're bending the story to suit you. It sounded to me pretty obvious at the time who that whole "discussion" was aimed at. The result was obvious, at any rate. Didn't you watch that practice tape? I mean seriously, WTF? ??? Do you think Brandon was a locker room leader or something?

no, i'm not bending the story. Note that story happened quite sometime after that practice tape aired.

I'm not saying marsh wasn't a problem, he was. He's gone no matter what I think.

Steve Sewell
04-14-2010, 08:58 AM
Which contract stop Denver for getting a player they wanted? Shanahan kept the cap in control and was able to put a respectable team on the field. The cap management done in Denver was far better then most of the teams in the league.

Its a testament to his coaching ability and salary cap savvy that the team was able to win football games during this time period.

However, the dearth of talent left over from atrocious free agency and draft decisions was devastating, and a major contributor to his firing and lack of any meaningful success in the NFL after John Elway retired.

BMarsh615
04-14-2010, 08:59 AM
What the hell am I going to do now? I'm not creative enough to come up with a new name.

elsid13
04-14-2010, 09:00 AM
What the hell am I going to do now? I'm not creative enough to come up with a new name.

I would go old school with White Rhino.

Dagmar
04-14-2010, 09:01 AM
What the hell am I going to do now? I'm not creative enough to come up with a new name.

TebowsChoice?

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 09:02 AM
Which contract stop Denver for getting a player they wanted? Shanahan kept the cap in control and was able to put a respectable team on the field. The cap management done in Denver was far better then most of the teams in the league.

You answer questions with questions? What's up with that? Respectable team? Ten years and one sniff at the playoffs? You call what happened the last three games in Shanahan's ten year building plan "respectable?" The NFL calls it the biggest collapse in NFL history. We have different definitions of the word "respectable." Let's see... how many players were we not able to draft because Shanahan had blown money on bums like a drunken sailor? You want me to prove a negative? I don't know, a zillion? Fifty? Want to go over it contract for contract?

baja
04-14-2010, 09:03 AM
Then you're clamping your hands over your ears and saying "lalalalalalalala".

When someone is in orange and blue, faults get casually pointed out while we praise them as top 3 players. The minute they're gone (and I mean the MINUTE) they become not only bad football players, but evil human beings as well. This is so well documented over the years here that it's not even up for debate.

Very RARELY do people stick to their personal beliefs... which is sad. Much respect to Alec, while I disagree with his opinion, he's ALWAYS been against Cutler's style of play.

What you have here Rev is a pretty good definition of the word "Fan".

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 09:03 AM
Socal has a great article on how Denver was one of the (if not THE) top teams as far wins:dollars-spent ratios go.

Soooooooo... I see your point, but the reality is a 180 in the other direction.

How many playoff wins?

Man-Goblin
04-14-2010, 09:03 AM
What the hell am I going to do now? I'm not creative enough to come up with a new name.

How about JGaff610

baja
04-14-2010, 09:06 AM
Because LT the coke-head was such in easier problem.

I think you should look around for a better translator software. ;D

TheReverend
04-14-2010, 09:06 AM
How many playoff wins?

Has nothing to do with your psuedo point.

You said we were put in a financial ****hole... that's been shown to not be the case whatsoever.

If you'd like to make an issue about playoff appearances, wins and performance, by all means.

kamakazi_kal
04-14-2010, 09:06 AM
What the hell am I going to do now? I'm not creative enough to come up with a new name.

KOrton608

should be good enough for at least the first 6 games.

BMarsh615
04-14-2010, 09:09 AM
How about JGaff610

It would have to be JGaff810, the 6 in 615 got traded away last year.ROFL!

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 09:09 AM
Has nothing to do with your psuedo point.

You said we were put in a financial ****hole... that's been shown to not be the case whatsoever.

If you'd like to make an issue about playoff appearances, wins and performance, by all means.

See post #284. That's the point.

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 09:10 AM
Finheaven is still crashed. They're having a record breaking circle jerk over there. Ha!

gtown
04-14-2010, 09:11 AM
Not bad value considering the trades for McNabb, Boldin, and Holmes this offseason. I hope McD finds a gem in the draft this year. We kicked the tires on lots of receivers this offseason, so I guess the writing was on the wall for BMarsh.

Where is the over/under thread on BMarsh's potential suspension?

TailgateNut
04-14-2010, 09:14 AM
What the hell am I going to do now? I'm not creative enough to come up with a new name.

Become a fish fan!

boppool
04-14-2010, 09:17 AM
What the hell am I going to do now? I'm not creative enough to come up with a new name.

I think you're onto something.
Change to Sheff88, so we can get him traded...

Rabb
04-14-2010, 09:20 AM
I think you're onto something.
Change to Sheff88, so we can get him traded...

using that logic I vote for lexdragtsibf7

BMarsh615
04-14-2010, 09:23 AM
I think you're onto something.
Change to Sheff88, so we can get him traded...

My s/n must have voodoo powers or something. The scary thing is, before Hillis got traded this was my wallpaper for the past 8 months.

http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/apmegasports/200812071658611398115-pf.h2.jpg

TonyR
04-14-2010, 09:26 AM
The cap management done in Denver was far better then most of the teams in the league.

LOL!!! Here's just one example of how clueless you are.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 09:28 AM
LOL!!! Here's just one example of how clueless you are.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html

Here's the saddest part of that article:

Bowlen said in a written statement released Thursday by the Broncos that the club gained no competitive advantage from these cap violations.

ROFL!

elsid13
04-14-2010, 09:34 AM
LOL!!! Here's just one example of how clueless you are.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html

Once again you don't get it. Broncos deferred payments to Davis and Elway between 1996 til 1998 because of how they understood the language in collective bargaining agreement. The cap was not violated and no competitive advantage was gained . The only other individual that had problem with this was Al Davis, not someone I would want to be associated with it. But go ahead and continue your whining about Shanahan.

Cool Breeze
04-14-2010, 09:46 AM
Good bye Brandon it was fun watching you.
Thanks for helping to improve the team with your last act.
While I'll miss your play, I will appreciate my Broncos team more.

ColoradoDarin
04-14-2010, 09:51 AM
Once again you don't get it. Broncos deferred payments to Davis and Elway between 1996 til 1998 because of how they understood the language in collective bargaining agreement. The cap was not violated and no competitive advantage was gained . The only other individual that had problem with was Al Davis, not someone I would want to be associated with it. But go ahead and continue your whining about Shanahan.

I find it amazing that people still have trouble with the concept of deferred payments.

For those who need a little more explanation - we kept the books exactly the same but Pat just got a loan back from TD and Elway.

Taco John
04-14-2010, 09:54 AM
I find it amazing that people still have trouble with the concept of deferred payments.

For those who need a little more explanation - we kept the books exactly the same but Pat just got a loan back from TD and Elway.

I do too. The part that really sucks is that there wasn't even a rule against it at the time. They invented it on the spot, and retroactively punished us for it.

baja
04-14-2010, 09:57 AM
I do too. The part that really sucks is that there wasn't even a rule against it at the time. They invented it on the spot, and retroactively punished us for it.

Not unlike the birthday thread banning. ;D

Taco John
04-14-2010, 09:58 AM
LOL!!! Here's just one example of how clueless you are.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html

I would say that you're the one that is clueless. The cap maneuvering there was actually pretty brilliant. So much so that they made a new rule up, and then hit us with that rule after the fact. I can see why they did it. Despite the fact that it didn't give us a competitive advantage, it set a precedent that the league couldn't abide by for fear of teams going bankrupt. But it's not like we spent over the cap or anything. We merely had players agree to defer a payment so Bowlen could finance the stadium.

TonyR
04-14-2010, 10:00 AM
Once again you don't get it.

I'm clearly not the one who doesn't get it. They circumvented the cap no matter how you spin it. And this wasn't the only issue. There were also, as I recall, several times the Broncos had to let players go because of cap issues. I could be wrong on the specifics but I think it was a major issue with at least some of the following: Bert Berry, Reggie Hayward, Trevor Pryce, and Shannon Sharpe, among several others. You really don't recall the cap issues the Broncos had in that era? Revisionist History 101?

elsid13
04-14-2010, 10:10 AM
I'm clearly not the one who doesn't get it. They circumvented the cap no matter how you spin it. And this wasn't the only issue. There were also, as I recall, several times the Broncos had to let players go because of cap issues. I could be wrong on the specifics but I think it was a major issue with at least some of the following: Bert Berry, Reggie Hayward, Trevor Pryce, and Shannon Sharpe, among several others. You really don't recall the cap issues the Broncos had in that era? Revisionist History 101?

They let Berry and Hayward go because Shahanan puts a value on every player and will not over pay for them. Both got contract that were way to much for what they did. Did really think either Jacksonville or Arizona got any value out of those two. Pryce was also getting paid a helluva lot and not living up to his contract, his success in Baltimore is due to everyone he playing with and not his individual efforts. We all get the fact that you don't like Shahanan, it been clear for a long time. Only one spinning here is you.

Add as pointed out by others Denver never circumvented the cap

HAT
04-14-2010, 10:12 AM
using that logic I vote for lexkipdragtsibf7rastajhnslostknightcorringtonflame Calbeef

Fixed. :~ohyah!:

HAT
04-14-2010, 10:14 AM
Not unlike the birthday thread banning. ;D
(or the "close,female" one Hilarious!)

Ahahahah....Rep! ^5

Taco John
04-14-2010, 10:17 AM
I'm clearly not the one who doesn't get it. They circumvented the cap no matter how you spin it. And this wasn't the only issue. There were also, as I recall, several times the Broncos had to let players go because of cap issues. I could be wrong on the specifics but I think it was a major issue with at least some of the following: Bert Berry, Reggie Hayward, Trevor Pryce, and Shannon Sharpe, among several others. You really don't recall the cap issues the Broncos had in that era? Revisionist History 101?

No they didn't. They didn't circumvent the cap at all. How silly.

I can't believe how shallow your grasp of this stuff is.

Dagmar
04-14-2010, 10:17 AM
(or the "close,female" one Hilarious!)

Ahahahah....Rep! ^5

He may be gone, but I ****ing LOVE your avatar.

Dagmar
04-14-2010, 10:19 AM
No they didn't. They didn't circumvent the cap at all. How silly.

A hats off you sir, for all I disagree with you, the site has not even slowed for me for one second all day.

http://peopleinmyhead.com/zencart/images/hats%20off.jpg

HAT
04-14-2010, 10:20 AM
He may be gone, but I ****ing LOVE your avatar.

It's a great pic!

Love BM & always will but God Bless McD for maximizing his value. Given what the WR market sunk to this off season...it's a great deal IMO (for both teams)

kamakazi_kal
04-14-2010, 10:26 AM
My s/n must have voodoo powers or something. The scary thing is, before Hillis got traded this was my wallpaper for the past 8 months.

http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/apmegasports/200812071658611398115-pf.h2.jpg

I'm along the same line .... every jersey I buy get traded the next year.
Sorry to let everyone know Champ will not be back after this season.

TonyR
04-14-2010, 10:27 AM
No they didn't. They didn't circumvent the cap at all. How silly.

So they got penalized not once but twice for salary cap violations just because?

From the article:

Harold Henderson, the chairman of the Management Council and the NFL's executive vice president of labor relations...did not directly address the issue of whether the club gained a competitive advantage but said the Broncos circumvented the cap to help pay for costs related to the construction of Invesco Field at Mile High.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 10:28 AM
He's good enough for Bill Parcells, but not for us?

Yeah, this is gonna work out just fine.

TonyR
04-14-2010, 10:30 AM
He's good enough for Bill Parcells, but not for us?


You really don't understand why they traded him? It's that hard for you to figure out? I suggest reading Lombardi's piece linked below.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Diner-morning-news-A-good-deal-for-both-teams.html

Taco John
04-14-2010, 10:34 AM
So they got penalized not once but twice for salary cap violations just because?

From the article:

Harold Henderson, the chairman of the Management Council and the NFL's executive vice president of labor relations...did not directly address the issue of whether the club gained a competitive advantage but said the Broncos circumvented the cap to help pay for costs related to the construction of Invesco Field at Mile High.


No. Not "just because." I can understand why you'd be so confused about this. You don't seem to have a clue of the issues involved. You just know what the average Chiefs fan knows: we got penalized.

To educate you: We didn't overspend the cap. We spent right up to it. All of the salary was kosher and on the books. But because Bowlen had all his money tied up in financing the stadium, he went to Elway and Davis and asked them to DEFER payment for a year. A lot of companies have had to do this in tough economic times. I've deferred a paycheck before. The money is still on the books, I just had to wait a month to get it. In the case of the Broncos, the money was still on the books and accounted for 1997. But Bowlen had an agreement with the players involved that they'd get that payment a year later. There is no circumvention of the cap there. Merely a deferrment. We got penalized twice: once for Elway, and once for Davis.

There was no rule at the time that made this illegal. But, the league reviewed the case due to Al Davis stomping around, and determined that if every team started deferring payments like this, it could potentially cause solvency problems that could force a franchise into bankruptcy. So they made a rule, and made an example of us. Later, the NFL issued a statement that while we didn't gain an competitive advantage, the solvency issues involved forced them to take action.

There was no circumvention, despite some of the sloppy reporting on the subject.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 10:34 AM
Can't say I am a fan of this move. Two offseasons, top 2 offensive players gone.

Well, Clady is better than Cutler, and about as good as Brandon ... but point taken.

Plus Hillis gone and Schefter nearly gone, and Royal marginalized. Can't spin every single one of these moves .... McDaniels f'ing better win some games, he has gutted the best young offense in the NFL. Personally, I think we're screwed. We haven't replaced a single one of those 5 with equal or better players. That's very telling ... you can't just keep offing and offing good young talent without replacing it. It's gonna catch up with us.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 10:37 AM
You really don't understand why they traded him? It's that hard for you to figure out? I suggest reading Lombardi's piece linked below.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Diner-morning-news-A-good-deal-for-both-teams.html

Dude, you're off the rails here, seriously.

And you didn't even read my post. I said: HE'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR PARCELLS, BUT NOT FOR US?

So who do you trust more ... Bill Parcells or Josh McDaniels? (pssst: there's only one answer that makes sense. Until a year ago Josh had zero player acquisition experience).

ortonhearsaboo
04-14-2010, 10:40 AM
Damn OrtonCriedaBoo after this trade went down. He's right back to sucking.

TonyR
04-14-2010, 10:41 AM
To educate you...

What's funny is you actually think you're telling me something I don't already know, in your typical condescending manner. The Broncos broke the rules. Because of cash flow problems they made agreements that aren't allowed and tried to get away with it. They didn't and were penalized.

And why are we even arguing about this? Why don't we go back to crying about how the Broncos didn't want to give $24 million of guaranteed money to a knucklehead like Brandon Marshall?

Taco John
04-14-2010, 10:43 AM
What's funny is you actually think you're telling me something I don't already know, in your typical condescending manner.

You clearly didn't know because you were making a lot of inaccurate statements like this one:


The Broncos broke the rules.

I suspect that you probably weren't following the Broncos very closely at the time. Those of us who were are well too familiar with the fact that there were no rules preventing them from doing this at the time, and that the rule was created because the Broncos went there.


And why are we even arguing about this?


Because you started bashing the Broncos using bogus information.

TonyR
04-14-2010, 10:45 AM
Dude, you're off the rails here, seriously.


I'm the one "off the rails"? Seriously? Which one of us is crying about how doomed the organization is and doesn't seem to understand why the Broncos traded Brandon Marshall. It's really very complicated and if you read Lombardi's piece you may gain some understanding.

Buff I love Brandon Marshall, he was my favorite current Bronco. But I understand why they did what they did. Bill Parcells is taking a big risk here and it may pay off. If it doesn't he'll do what he usually does which isn't stick with the team very long. What does he have to lose? This trade is very easy to understand from both sides and if you quit overreacting and sit back and think about it you'll come to understand.

Broncos4tw
04-14-2010, 10:45 AM
Ignoring off-field crap, we are trading away a known talent.. again.. for two unknowns.

It's the Ryan factor. Will we end up with a Leaf, or a Clady? You never know. If they are more leaf-like, we were just hosed big time. We keep removing KNOWN, solid, top rate talent, and replacing them with unknowns. You can call it streamlining the team, changing to a new "system" or whatever you want, but the bottom line is our team WILL be less talented again this year.

Orton's #'s won't look quite as rosey, either, with all those padded YAC yards from Marshall.

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2010, 10:46 AM
He's good enough for Bill Parcells, but not for us?


Using that logic, then you assume that every FA and draft pick Bill Parcells makes will pan out better than the ones McD made at the same position or in the same round?

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 10:46 AM
You friggin' people who applaud this trade ... I'd like to see your SAT scores.

Brandon Marshall was the only difference maker we had, the only real impact player. He won the Dallas game single-handedly this year when, on an underthrown 3rd down pass, he de-pantsed Terrence Newman - a VERY good cornerback, and took off on a broken-field touchdown run for the ages. Won the game. He is one of the top 3 or 4 wideouts in the freaking league, and you bow-downs are foolish enough to applaud a 2nd round pick for that?!

Spin it, guys .... you look so smart when you do!

go_broncos
04-14-2010, 10:46 AM
Mcd loves draft picks.If given a chance, he will trade Bowlen for a draft pick.
Broncos are cursed.. Never thought, a coach can ruin a franchise within a year.

go_broncos
04-14-2010, 10:48 AM
You friggin' people who applaud this trade ... I'd like to see your SAT scores.

Brandon Marshall was the only difference maker we had, the only real impact player. He won the Dallas game single-handedly this year when, on an underthrown 3rd down pass, he de-pantsed Terrence Newman - a VERY good cornerback, and took off on a broken-field touchdown run for the ages. Won the game. He is one of the top 3 or 4 wideouts in the freaking league, and you bow-downs are foolish enough to applaud a 2nd round pick for that?!

Spin it, guys .... you look so smart when you do!

the same people will applaud when Mcd gets fired in couple of seasons.
As per them, our front office can never do wrong.

bowtown
04-14-2010, 10:49 AM
Mcd loves draft picks.If given a chance, he will trade Bowlen for a draft pick.
Broncos are cursed.. Never thought, a coach can ruin a franchise within a year.

McDaniels has traded away more draft picks than he's traded for.

HAT
04-14-2010, 10:49 AM
he has gutted the best young offense in the NFL.

We've been over this before.......

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=88680&highlight=rodgers&page=4

Okay, points taken ... I would disagree with several there (esp Vikes, Eagles, Jets, 9ers, none are equal imo), so I'll grant you "best" was an ill-advised term

:wiggle:

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2010, 10:49 AM
We keep removing KNOWN, solid, top rate talent, and replacing them with unknowns.

We keep removing? I expect a list.

Orton's #'s won't look quite as rosey, either, with all those padded YAC yards from Marshall.

Name one QB that doesn't benefit from YAC. Unless you can prove that Marshall had significantly more YAC in 2009 than every other WR around the league, then I don't see the padding here.

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2010, 10:51 AM
You friggin' people who applaud this trade ... I'd like to see your SAT scores.

Brandon Marshall was the only difference maker we had, the only real impact player. He won the Dallas game single-handedly this year when, on an underthrown 3rd down pass, he de-pantsed Terrence Newman - a VERY good cornerback, and took off on a broken-field touchdown run for the ages. Won the game. He is one of the top 3 or 4 wideouts in the freaking league, and you bow-downs are foolish enough to applaud a 2nd round pick for that?!

Spin it, guys .... you look so smart when you do!

We win that game if Marshall calls in sick. He single handedly won it? Not even close.

sixtimeseight
04-14-2010, 10:52 AM
Terrence Newman - a VERY good cornerback

lol. this tells you all you need to know about broncoloveswhitestuff's player evaluation abilities. well, that and his constant cum-guzzling of chris simms.

Requiem
04-14-2010, 10:52 AM
You friggin' people who applaud this trade ... I'd like to see your SAT scores.

The SAT would have nothing to do with individual abilities to decipher and analyze what happens in football. I never took the SAT, but I did take the ACT and had a 27, which is respectable.

Brandon Marshall was the only difference maker we had, the only real impact player. He won the Dallas game single-handedly this year when, on an underthrown 3rd down pass, he de-pantsed Terrence Newman - a VERY good cornerback, and took off on a broken-field touchdown run for the ages. Won the game. He is one of the top 3 or 4 wideouts in the freaking league, and you bow-downs are foolish enough to applaud a 2nd round pick for that?!

Two second round selections, you should at least be fair in counting. I'm sad to lose a phenomenal talent, but if the Broncos were not willing to invest the contract he was given based on his past issues and possibility of year long suspension, I find it admirable and good that they were able to gain a high selection in this draft, and another in 2011. It is better than letting him walk, and getting a third round compensatory selection, (pending the new CBA, but I'd guess this stays the same).

Spin it, guys .... you look so smart when you do!

The success of this trade will depend on a myriad of factors.


How will Marshall pan out in Miami? (Production, suspension, etc.)

How will the #43 selection (and future selection) pan out for this team?

Will our passing game suffer without his existence or will we improve?


Your concerns are justified, but there is no reason to act like those who support the move are stupid because they have a dissenting opinion than yours. You are better than that Buff. Like the Cutler move, this one also has some controversial aspects, but it also has benefits.

We can only hope that McDaniels, Xanders and the Scouting Staff have done their duty well in the scouting of this class and can come up with a plan to aid our team in many areas and at the same time, improve our passing game and offense even though we lost our best weapon.

Just have some faith.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 10:52 AM
Using that logic, then you assume that every FA and draft pick Bill Parcells makes will pan out better than the ones McD made at the same position or in the same round?

Pleeeease, not EVERY move pans out. Try not to overstate to make a point. Fact is, historically, Parcells is an excellent evaluator and trade-maker.

And actually, I suppose Josh could turn out to be good at it too, we just don't know yet. But the way he's going, the odds are not good, not good at all.


Sad part is ... the apologists have convoluted, twisted, tight-rope justifications why each one of losses are okay: Cutler, Hillis, Marshall, Scheffler soon, and Royal marginlized. Do you have any idea how, when you put all these twisted explanations together, how dumb you sound?

TonyR
04-14-2010, 10:53 AM
Because you started bashing the Broncos using bogus information.

LOL!!! I didn't start it, and I generally don't bash the Broncos. So wrong on both counts.

Are you still sore at me for exposing you on that Andra Davis thread? Holding a grudge? Can't let it go? http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2775444&highlight=Manuel#post2775444

DenverBrit
04-14-2010, 10:53 AM
You friggin' people who applaud this trade ... I'd like to see your SAT scores.

Brandon Marshall was the only difference maker we had, the only real impact player. He won the Dallas game single-handedly this year when, on an underthrown 3rd down pass, he de-pantsed Terrence Newman - a VERY good cornerback, and took off on a broken-field touchdown run for the ages. Won the game. He is one of the top 3 or 4 wideouts in the freaking league, and you bow-downs are foolish enough to applaud a 2nd round pick for that?!

Spin it, guys .... you look so smart when you do!

There was a realistic alternative?

Bowlen wasn't going to give BM the kind of money Miami is willing to shell out. He's seen Marshall's act up close and personal and knows how close he is to a half season suspension.

Spend the $50 million building a TEAM.

Popcorn Sutton
04-14-2010, 10:54 AM
He's good enough for Bill Parcells, but not for us?

Yeah, this is gonna work out just fine.

T.O.? Keyshawn?

TailgateNut
04-14-2010, 10:55 AM
You friggin' people who applaud this trade ... I'd like to see your SAT scores.

Brandon Marshall was the only difference maker we had, the only real impact player. He won the Dallas game single-handedly this year when, on an underthrown 3rd down pass, he de-pantsed Terrence Newman - a VERY good cornerback, and took off on a broken-field touchdown run for the ages. Won the game. He is one of the top 3 or 4 wideouts in the freaking league, and you bow-downs are foolish enough to applaud a 2nd round pick for that?!

Spin it, guys .... you look so smart when you do!


Hey MensaPrez, some of us just don't like the azzhole for many varied reasons.
To name a few: Arrogance, Voilence issues against defenseless women, Dui's, BS during training camp, BS during the season, Involvent in the Dwill murder, Lying about injuries, Suspensions by the league, Criticizing the fans,........................................

Yes, I applaud any trade which sends this cancer down the road.

Requiem
04-14-2010, 10:55 AM
Sad part is ... the apologists have convoluted, twisted, tight-rope justifications why each one of losses are okay: Cutler, Hillis, Marshall, Scheffler soon, and Royal marginlized. Do you have any idea how, when you put all these twisted explanations together, how dumb you sound?

Do you know how silly it sounds to try and evaluate all these moves just by face value and immediacy rather than seeing how they look a few years down the road? They could suck, they could be great, they could be a wash. We do not know yet.

Popcorn Sutton
04-14-2010, 10:56 AM
You friggin' people who applaud this trade ... I'd like to see your SAT scores.

Brandon Marshall was the only difference maker we had, the only real impact player. He won the Dallas game single-handedly this year when, on an underthrown 3rd down pass, he de-pantsed Terrence Newman - a VERY good cornerback, and took off on a broken-field touchdown run for the ages. Won the game. He is one of the top 3 or 4 wideouts in the freaking league, and you bow-downs are foolish enough to applaud a 2nd round pick for that?!

Spin it, guys .... you look so smart when you do!

You can't simply ignore the Darrent Williams impact or the fifty off the field transgressions. You are smart enough to know that it's not entirely about what happens on the field. The off the field stuff and the me first attitude last season all but sealed his fate in Denver.

yerner
04-14-2010, 10:58 AM
Somebody post a poll on who is predicted to lead the Broncos in receiving next year. Now.

TailgateNut
04-14-2010, 10:58 AM
There was a realistic alternative?

Bowlen wasn't going to give BM the kind of money Miami is willing to shell out. He's seen Marshall's act up close and personal and knows how close he is to a half season suspension.

Spend the $50 million building a TEAM.


I wish I could have been a "fly on the wall" the other day when dillwad met with the team mgt..

I would bet that this trade was planned prior to "the child who sits in the corner" arriving for the mtg., and that he was told that if he signed the tender he would get his wish and be able to leave this "Horrible Place".

Hercules Rockefeller
04-14-2010, 10:59 AM
Well, Clady is better than Cutler, and about as good as Brandon ... but point taken.

Plus Hillis gone and Schefter nearly gone, and Royal marginalized. Can't spin every single one of these moves .... McDaniels f'ing better win some games, he has gutted the best young offense in the NFL. Personally, I think we're screwed. We haven't replaced a single one of those 5 with equal or better players. That's very telling ... you can't just keep offing and offing good young talent without replacing it. It's gonna catch up with us.

Get Hillis the **** out of that list.

Jesus. The guy was Shanahan's 6th choice at RB in '08 and was unable to not step on his dick everytime he took the field in '09.

If Scheffler could actually stay healthy and consistent, then maybe you could make an argument for him.

Stick to Cutler and Marshall, at least you've got a leg to stand on with those two.

TonyR
04-14-2010, 10:59 AM
T.O.? Keyshawn?

Seriously. Good calls. Parcells is a gambler. It's not his money and he won't be in this job for more than another year or two anyway. Nothing to lose.

Rabb
04-14-2010, 11:01 AM
Do you know how silly it sounds to try and evaluate all these moves just by face value and immediacy rather than seeing how they look a few years down the road? They could suck, they could be great, they could be a wash. We do not know yet.

yes exactly

not to mention, there is no guarantee Marshall will mesh in Miami with Henne

it is a complete wait and see on both sides, he still has a few months yet to meet the Miami police afterall

DenverBrit
04-14-2010, 11:04 AM
I wish I could have been a "fly on the wall" the other day when dillwad met with the team mgt..

I would bet that this trade was planned prior to "the child who sits in the corner" arriving for the mtg., and that he was told that if he signed the tender he would get his wish and be able to leave this "Horrible Place".

It wouldn't surprise me if the rumor were true that Shanny was tired of BM's antics in 08 and Bowlen resolved back then not to give BM a big fat guarantee.

TonyR
04-14-2010, 11:05 AM
it is a complete wait and see on both sides...

Yes, but you're and idiot for not melting down, throwing in the towel, and bashing the coach and FO. Your SAT scores must not have been very high.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 11:08 AM
The SAT would have nothing to do with individual abilities to decipher and analyze what happens in football. I never took the SAT, but I did take the ACT and had a 27, which is respectable.

Yeah sorry ... I don't mean literal intelligence. I'm just tired of losing all this talent, while the apologists spout different twisted explanations why each move is "the right one, Buff, really." Over and over ... "this was the right move, Buff!"

So what, Ryan Clady is next? His game did fall off his second year.


Two second round selections, you should at least be fair in counting.


How will Marshall pan out in Miami? (Production, suspension, etc.)
Well, how's he do the last two years? Why would you think any different? Parcells likes him ... he's back home now. Odds are if they throw to him, he'll improve his numbers. I suppose suspensions are something of an issue ... but hasn't it struck you that every time he's met with Goodell the punishments were mild - very mild? One time was NO punishment, the other was a 2-game suspension, later lowered to one game.


How will the #43 selection (and future selection) pan out for this team?
You're right, it's TWO #2 picks, my bad.
Okay then ... Darcel McBath and Richard Quinn! Weee're SUPER BOWL BOUND!


Will our passing game suffer without his existence or will we improve?
Improve? Without a top 5 WR and with no replacement in sight for his enormous production? I don't think the word "improve" should even be spoken. We lost an enormous amount of on-field production today, no two ways about it.


You're right Req, you make good sense, and I was over the top on the SAT thing .... but this Marshall thing is wrong, just wrong. Especially in that Parcells seems okay with his character issues ... and Parcells as we all know HATES bad character players.

So now the onus is on Josh, YET AGAIN ... if Brandon "straightens up and flies right," Josh should rightly be blamed.

The thing that gets me is every.single.high.producing.offensive.player he offs, there's a special, twisted explanation why it's okay. And anybody notice they're all OFFENSIVE players? That's Josh's area ... so why is THAT side of the ball producing so many exiles?

Methinks - and logic dictates - it's more than likely a Josh thing.

Rabb
04-14-2010, 11:08 AM
Yes, but you're and idiot for not melting down, throwing in the towel, and bashing the coach and FO. Your SAT scores must not have been very high.

lol

I also hate old people, children and dogs

TonyR
04-14-2010, 11:09 AM
Serious question for the McD haters who are standing on the ledge because of this trade: why didn't any team step up with a #1? why was two #2's the best offer the Broncos got? Brandon Marshall is clearly a very good player and yet offers didn't seem to match perceived on field value. Why do you think that is? If you don't want to answer publicly ask yourselves the question and see what you can come up with. Here's a hint: $24 million guaranteed money is at least a small factor.

lex
04-14-2010, 11:11 AM
Yeah sorry ... I don't mean literal intelligence. I'm just tired of losing all this talent, while the apologists spout different twisted explanations why each move is "the right one, Buff, really." Over and over ... "this was the right move, Buff!"

So what, Ryan Clady is next? His game did fall off his second year.




You're right Req, you make good sense, and I was over the top on the SAT thing .... but this Marshall thing is wrong, just wrong. Especially in that Parcells seems okay with his character issues ... and Parcells as we all know HATES bad character players.

So now the onus is on Josh, YET AGAIN ... if Brandon "straightens up and flies right," Josh should rightly be blamed.

The thing that gets me is every.single.high.producing.offensive.player he offs, there's a special, twisted explanation why it's okay. And anybody notice they're all OFFENSIVE players? That's Josh's area ... so why is THAT side of the ball producing so many exiles?

Methinks - and logic dictates - it's more than likely a Josh thing.

You mean, people arent forthcoming with the "Josh wants all the credit and doesnt like competing with his players for attention" explanation?

tsr28
04-14-2010, 11:11 AM
Seriously. Good calls. Parcells is a gambler. It's not his money and he won't be in this job for more than another year or two anyway. Nothing to lose.

IIRC Jerry Jones wanted T.O., not Parcells, there was the whole drama with Parcells always referring to T.O. as the player and would never reference him by name in interviews. The next year after that Parcells left the Cowboys.

lex
04-14-2010, 11:11 AM
Serious question for the McD haters who are standing on the ledge because of this trade: why didn't any team step up with a #1? why was two #2's the best offer the Broncos got? Brandon Marshall is clearly a very good player and yet offers didn't seem to match perceived on field value. Why do you think that is? If you don't want to answer publicly ask yourselves the question and see what you can come up with. Here's a hint: $24 million guaranteed money is at least a small factor.

They didnt have to trade him. A 2nd is giving him away.

Rabb
04-14-2010, 11:12 AM
Methinks - and logic dictates - it's more than likely a Josh thing.

I don't know Buff, with the Cutler and Scheffler (soon to be) and Hillis moves yes I agree it was Josh. With Brandon, this was a long time coming back to the Shanny regime and I have a feeling Pat on down were not comfie handing that kind of guaranteed coin to a guy that has yet to prove he can handle himself off the field.

And it doesn't need to be black and white with loving/hating this move. I am in wait and see mode myself, and not in love with Brandon leaving but accepting at the moment when I consider the entire situation.

I don't have to be a Broncos FO fanboy to be ok with this whole thing. And on the same token I don't have to hate the move just because I would have preferred he stay.

DBroncos4life
04-14-2010, 11:14 AM
So how many of these posts are calling Marshall over-rated/a bad player now?

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 11:16 AM
You clearly didn't know because you were making a lot of inaccurate statements like this one:




I suspect that you probably weren't following the Broncos very closely at the time. Those of us who were are well too familiar with the fact that there were no rules preventing them from doing this at the time, and that the rule was created because the Broncos went there.




Because you started bashing the Broncos using bogus information.

:bs: Nobody bashed the Broncos. And nobody was talking about the Davis/Elway contracts, at least originally. The point was made regarding the bad contracts and FA choices that Shanahan bogged down this club with. This diversion had nothing to do with the original point. The way it relates to the current discussion is that there seem to be some on this board who would have preferred the Broncos spend $47 million over four years to keep Marshall here, and some who think that would have been a bad gamble (a Shanahan style gamble). Put me in the latter group. IMO, Marshall does something to get suspended, or worse, within the next 12 months.

Anybody who agreed with Shanahan not paying for Berry and Heyward should be pleased with the Marshall trade.

ColoradoDarin
04-14-2010, 11:17 AM
So how many of these posts are calling Marshall over-rated/a bad player now?

Not many, the most negative thing seems to be that Marshall isn't worth the 5/$50MM contract the Dolphins just gave him.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 11:18 AM
The thing that gets me is every.single.high.producing.offensive.player he offs, there's a special, twisted explanation why it's okay. And anybody notice they're all OFFENSIVE players? That's Josh's area ... so why is THAT side of the ball producing so many exiles?

Methinks - and logic dictates - it's more than likely a Josh thing.

THIS!

I know I'm quoting myself, but now that a year has gone by, this is a crucuail inquiry. Explain to me why it's only offensive players who SUDDENLY have problems and have to go? Betcha fifty bucks that if truth be told, Eddie Royal would LOVE to get out of here. Betcha 500. Josh is the common factor in all five (including under-utilizing Royal). Don't see Champ and DJ and Haggan and Thomas and Woodyard having problems ... just the offensive guys.

Think like a lawyer (I know, insert joke here), but seriously: There is a distinct pattern here. Our best offensive weapons, and now one of the Top 5 wideouts in the freaking league - gone for two second-rounders.

Two second rounders, say it with me! ... Another Darcel McBath and Richard Quinn! Weee're SUPER BOWL BOUND!

yerner
04-14-2010, 11:18 AM
They didnt have to trade him. A 2nd is giving him away.

I agree that losing him is a bad move football wise. But when you say they didn't have to trade him, I'm not sure thats correct. He wanted to leave badly. They got the best they could for a guy that was a huge distraction. Unfortunatly, it was at the cost of losing talent on the field.

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 11:19 AM
Yeah sorry ... I don't mean literal intelligence. I'm just tired of losing all this talent, while the apologists spout different twisted explanations why each move is "the right one, Buff, really." Over and over ... "this was the right move, Buff!"

So what, Ryan Clady is next? His game did fall off his second year.




You're right Req, you make good sense, and I was over the top on the SAT thing .... but this Marshall thing is wrong, just wrong. Especially in that Parcells seems okay with his character issues ... and Parcells as we all know HATES bad character players.

So now the onus is on Josh, YET AGAIN ... if Brandon "straightens up and flies right," Josh should rightly be blamed.

The thing that gets me is every.single.high.producing.offensive.player he offs, there's a special, twisted explanation why it's okay. And anybody notice they're all OFFENSIVE players? That's Josh's area ... so why is THAT side of the ball producing so many exiles?

Methinks - and logic dictates - it's more than likely a Josh thing.

Why don't you quit being such a drama queen? Is Clady one infraction away from an 8 game ban? Did he **** around like a brat at practice? Did he get banned for a game because he acted like a punk? This trade has nothing to do with Brandon's performance and everything to do with his character. Quit trying to make this something it's not just so you continue with your juvenile McDaniels bashing.

kamakazi_kal
04-14-2010, 11:20 AM
Yeah sorry ... I don't mean literal intelligence. I'm just tired of losing all this talent, while the apologists spout different twisted explanations why each move is "the right one, Buff, really." Over and over ... "this was the right move, Buff!"

So what, Ryan Clady is next? His game did fall off his second year.




You're right Req, you make good sense, and I was over the top on the SAT thing .... but this Marshall thing is wrong, just wrong. Especially in that Parcells seems okay with his character issues ... and Parcells as we all know HATES bad character players.

So now the onus is on Josh, YET AGAIN ... if Brandon "straightens up and flies right," Josh should rightly be blamed.

The thing that gets me is every.single.high.producing.offensive.player he offs, there's a special, twisted explanation why it's okay. And anybody notice they're all OFFENSIVE players? That's Josh's area ... so why is THAT side of the ball producing so many exiles?

Methinks - and logic dictates - it's more than likely a Josh thing.

Well, it's not all offense ...... we did lose Nolan. That couldn't have been a Josh thing.

yerner
04-14-2010, 11:21 AM
Serious question for the McD haters who are standing on the ledge because of this trade: why didn't any team step up with a #1? why was two #2's the best offer the Broncos got? Brandon Marshall is clearly a very good player and yet offers didn't seem to match perceived on field value. Why do you think that is? If you don't want to answer publicly ask yourselves the question and see what you can come up with. Here's a hint: $24 million guaranteed money is at least a small factor.

Maybe. But Scheffler said it was more because the Broncos had lost all their leverage by having this feud so public. There was no team that believed he was ever going to not be traded and that lessened his value.

SleepingTiger
04-14-2010, 11:22 AM
Just curious how "management" doesn't have their "crap together"? They have a trouble making, malcontent player who doesn't want to buy all in to what the team is doing so they tender him at the first round level. Interestingly, despite what a good player he is, nobody is interested in him at that level. So they got the best they could. Sad to see him go but you have to understand the rationale. This is a business not fantasy football. Giving BM a huge contract is far too big a risk.

its not just management, but is is also BM. Maybe most of it was Marshall, but the fact is we lost a franchise player.
my point is not that i am blaming management or BM, but its a SHAME that the two sides can't get together and work something out.

your idea that if he is that good, why can't we get a 1st for him? how about the contract they gave BM? 50 mil and 24 in bonuses... for somebody that is mediocre, he sure got a big contract.

DBroncos4life
04-14-2010, 11:22 AM
Not many, the most negative thing seems to be that Marshall isn't worth the 5/$50MM contract the Dolphins just gave him.

That's hardly that bad for a guy of his talent. Fitz signed a 4 year 40 million deal a few years ago. Same average dollars per year.

long beach bronco
04-14-2010, 11:22 AM
Cutler and Marshall were great players for our team, I wish we still had them both, but we don't, the new regime feels as a team we are better off without them, so we move on. Emotionally we as fans have to deal and live with the decision making of the front office but that's ok, because we have been doing this for years now, I'm a 36 year Bronco fan and many of you have been for more than that. We always get through it. Coaches, owners, players, general managers, cheeleaders and stadiums all come and go but we the fans last forever. At this point in history, McD is leading our team and we have to live with his decisions wheather we like them or not. That's ok too, because it doesn't matter who suits up in blue and orange we will be cheering and screaming for our team on Sunday's, no matter what the players' names are.

Rabb
04-14-2010, 11:24 AM
THIS!

I know I'm quoting myself, but now that a year has gone by, this is a crucuail inquiry. Explain to me why it's only offensive players who SUDDENLY have problems and have to go? Betcha fifty bucks that if truth be told, Eddie Royal would LOVE to get out of here. Betcha 500. Josh is the common factor in all five (including under-utilizing Royal). Don't see Champ and DJ and Haggan and Thomas and Woodyard having problems ... just the offensive guys.

Think like a lawyer (I know, insert joke here), but seriously: There is a distinct pattern here. Our best offensive weapons, and now one of the Top 5 wideouts in the freaking league - gone for two second-rounders.

Two second rounders, say it with me! ... Another Darcel McBath and Richard Quinn! Weee're SUPER BOWL BOUND!

draft day is going to be just awesome

http://www.djtechtools.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/61089116thedeepend_35169.jpg

SleepingTiger
04-14-2010, 11:25 AM
Ever hear of Rod Smith?

Rod Smith is the greatest Bronco WR, only because Marshall is no longer here. Unless BM totally screws up, his numbers at the end of his career will surpass that of Rod Smith.

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2010, 11:27 AM
THIS!

I know I'm quoting myself, but now that a year has gone by, this is a crucuail inquiry. Explain to me why it's only offensive players who SUDDENLY have problems and have to go? Betcha fifty bucks that if truth be told, Eddie Royal would LOVE to get out of here. Betcha 500. Josh is the common factor in all five (including under-utilizing Royal). Don't see Champ and DJ and Haggan and Thomas and Woodyard having problems ... just the offensive guys.

Think like a lawyer (I know, insert joke here), but seriously: There is a distinct pattern here. Our best offensive weapons, and now one of the Top 5 wideouts in the freaking league - gone for two second-rounders.

Two second rounders, say it with me! ... Another Darcel McBath and Richard Quinn! Weee're SUPER BOWL BOUND!

Ignoring the fact that Marshall was a problem child under Shanny and the reports that came out about Shanny entertaining trade proposals for him two years ago.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 11:27 AM
Well, it's not all offense ...... we did lose Nolan. That couldn't have been a Josh thing.

What? No!

Josh had purview over Nolan, as he does the offensive players. So you've actually added to my side of the debate.

Defensive players are (were) Nolan's area. Yes, Josh ultimately also controls all the players including defense, but Nolan's quotes last year (about starting from back to front etc...) make quite clear he was largely in control of defensive personnel.

And again, you don't hear DJ and Champ and Haggan And MT and Woodyard having problems. This is a pattern, no two ways about it. Might not be Josh's fault, but it's definitely a pattern. And you helped define the pattern by reminding us of Nolan's precipitous exit. Oh, and don't forget Jim Goodman. Still an understated loss for this franchise.

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 11:28 AM
Seriously. Good calls. Parcells is a gambler. It's not his money and he won't be in this job for more than another year or two anyway. Nothing to lose.

This is closer to the truth than anything anybody else has said on here. Parcells is a gambler. He just threw the dice for $47 million. The Seahawks wouldn't do it. The Broncos wouldn't do it. Parcells did. Via con dios.

uplink
04-14-2010, 11:29 AM
unless there is a truely elite can't miss player, 1st round picks are overratted and a financial strain. Two seconds are better, but then again unproven draft picks are also overrated.

I guess the broncos had to get something for BMarsh though, so not too bad.

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 11:29 AM
Ignoring the fact that Marshall was a problem child under Shanny and the reports that came out about Shanny entertaining trade proposals for him two years ago.

I notice the Redskins didn't step up to the plate for Marshall.

ColoradoDarin
04-14-2010, 11:30 AM
That's hardly that bad for a guy of his talent. Fitz signed a 4 year 40 million deal a few years ago. Same average dollars per year.

Fitz isn't 1 screw up away from 8-16 game suspension. Fitz didn't throw a hissy fit in preseason.

SleepingTiger
04-14-2010, 11:30 AM
I was just thinking that and shaking my head

I wanted BM to stay but anointing him the best in franchise history is possibly the dumbest thing I have read on here yet

it is amazing how short-sighted some people are, with a healthy mix of the sky is falling

this is more about Brandon wanting out, not us wanting Brandon out

this may be worse than the Cutler thing around here...not sure I can take it lol


don't be a moron. where the hell did i say the sky is falling? I only pointed out that BM leaving the Broncos is a disappointment to the team and fans. the fact that the 2 sides can't come together and make it work is sad.

BM wanted money and the Broncos wouldn't give it up, so he got it else where.

Archer81
04-14-2010, 11:31 AM
Why don't you quit being such a drama queen? Is Clady one infraction away from an 8 game ban? Did he **** around like a brat at practice? Did he get banned for a game because he acted like a punk? This trade has nothing to do with Brandon's performance and everything to do with his character. Quit trying to make this something it's not just so you continue with your juvenile McDaniels bashing.


He votes democrat, he cant help it...HAHAHAHAHA...oh my ribs...

Otherwise I agree with your summation.

:Broncos:

TonyR
04-14-2010, 11:33 AM
... for somebody that is mediocre, he sure got a big contract.

He's not mediocre. He's a very good player, top 10 WR. I think more teams didn't line up to acquire him for the same or similar reasons Denver let him go: too much money to give a guy with the off field concerns Marshall has. On Denver's side add to this the antics and distractions he created and it was a deal that had to be made. Very unfortunate, but also very necessary.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-14-2010, 11:35 AM
No he's doing as the Pats do...stockpile a **** load of valuable draft picks to move up or down the draft board to get the players that fit with the organization.

The Pats don't give away 1sts and 2nds though. They might move from those spots, though I can't even think of a time they move up in the 1st, but they use lower round picks as the "+" in the trade.

They stockpile picks by trading out of their own spots in the 1st and 2nd, or trade them for future picks.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 11:35 AM
T.O.? Keyshawn?

Good points, actually ... hmmm...

But the fact remains: We just traded away the most talented and productive wide receiver in franchise history. For Darcel McBath and Richard Quinn. I dare anybody to say that won't SEVERELY hurt us on field.


And tgn, yes, there have been serious issues with women, I take those problems very seriously. But one was a psycho who tried to blackmail Bowlen, and the other, I think the taxi-cab girl, was just a 2-game suspension lowered to 1. He's a dumb kid, definitely ... but he just got married and maybe he'll start to grow up.

Today was an historically bad day for the Denver Broncos onfield product.

kamakazi_kal
04-14-2010, 11:36 AM
What? No!

Josh had purview over Nolan, as he does the offensive players. So you've actually added to my side of the debate.

Defensive players are (were) Nolan's area. Yes, Josh ultimately also controls all the players including defense, but Nolan's quotes last year (about starting from back to front etc...) make quite clear he was largely in control of defensive personnel.

And again, you don't hear DJ and Champ and Haggan And MT and Woodyard having problems. This is a pattern, no two ways about it. Might not be Josh's fault, but it's definitely a pattern. And you helped define the pattern by reminding us of Nolan's precipitous exit. Oh, and don't forget Jim Goodman. Still an understated loss for this franchise.


oh I forgot the /sarcasm thing. This year O is going to be hard on the eyes.

Rabb
04-14-2010, 11:37 AM
Rod Smith is the greatest Bronco WR, only because Marshall is no longer here. Unless BM totally screws up, his numbers at the end of his career will surpass that of Rod Smith.

Big Madden fan eh?

The only numbers that matter are Lombardis, and a player's worth is a lot deeper than stats.

Hell Sharpe is better than BM by a longshot in the big picture.

Rod was a leader, an example and everything Broncos football should be. Even putting that petulant child into the same category as a total player shows how little you know about football.

But go ahead and keep spinning this as if it were a fantasy team....because I am the moron right?

kamakazi_kal
04-14-2010, 11:38 AM
unless there is a truely elite can't miss player, 1st round picks are overratted and a financial strain. Two seconds are better, but then again unproven draft picks are also overrated.

I guess the broncos had to get something for BMarsh though, so not too bad.

maybe they got an offer for seattles first and didn't want it due to the cash commitment. We did trade a 1st for a second round player once before.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 11:38 AM
He votes democrat, he cant help it...HAHAHAHAHA...oh my ribs...

Otherwise I agree with your summation. :Broncos:

Drama queen?!

Yeah you're right, it's just a blip, a minor speed bump ... no need to be concerned.

Get out your scales, MARSHALL vs. McBATH+QUINN.

Yeah, no need to be concerned.

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2010, 11:38 AM
But the fact remains: We just traded away the most talented and productive wide receiver in franchise history. For Clinton Portis and Eddie Royal

Fixed it for you.

DenverBrit
04-14-2010, 11:38 AM
What? No!

Josh had purview over Nolan, as he does the offensive players. So you've actually added to my side of the debate.

Defensive players are (were) Nolan's area. Yes, Josh ultimately also controls all the players including defense, but Nolan's quotes last year (about starting from back to front etc...) make quite clear he was largely in control of defensive personnel.

And again, you don't hear DJ and Champ and Haggan And MT and Woodyard having problems. This is a pattern, no two ways about it. Might not be Josh's fault, but it's definitely a pattern. And you helped define the pattern by reminding us of Nolan's precipitous exit. Oh, and don't forget Jim Goodman. Still an understated loss for this franchise.

Do you just whine and complain for grins, or do you do it competitively? :peace:

TonyR
04-14-2010, 11:38 AM
We just traded away the most talented and productive wide receiver in franchise history. For Darcel McBath and Richard Quinn.

How do you figure? And please factor in that they traded away not only a malcontent distraction but a $50 million obligation, $24 million of it guaranteed. Hopefully that money will be used wisely elsewhere.

SleepingTiger
04-14-2010, 11:40 AM
He's not mediocre. He's a very good player, top 10 WR. I think more teams didn't line up to acquire him for the same or similar reasons Denver let him go: too much money to give a guy with the off field concerns Marshall has. On Denver's side add to this the antics and distractions he created and it was a deal that had to be made. Very unfortunate, but also very necessary.

very unfortunate, i agree. very necessary? he is getting paid cheese and crackers and we got him for another 2yrs depending on next years negotiations between the league and players. if he wants to sit, let him sit and suspened him. i saw cutler out because he wanted out, now BM. its going to be a trend for this team. there has to be a point where the team says, you will do what we say because you signed a damn contract.

parcells is a smart guy, he is not going to give up 50mil for a headcase unless he knew other wise.

gyldenlove
04-14-2010, 11:41 AM
Serious question for the McD haters who are standing on the ledge because of this trade: why didn't any team step up with a #1? why was two #2's the best offer the Broncos got? Brandon Marshall is clearly a very good player and yet offers didn't seem to match perceived on field value. Why do you think that is? If you don't want to answer publicly ask yourselves the question and see what you can come up with. Here's a hint: $24 million guaranteed money is at least a small factor.

The question is why we traded him for less than a 1st round pick. If the offers didn't match the on field production why didn't we stick with the on field production?

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 11:41 AM
How do you figure? And please factor in that they traded away not only a malcontent distraction but a $50 million obligation, $24 million of it guaranteed. Hopefully that money will be used wisely elsewhere.

That's not the way BB looks at things. It's more like this: This morning, Josh climbed out of bed and his balls itched, so he decided to "trade away" Brandon Marshall. Totally out of the blue. Done in a vacuum. With no rhyme or reason whatsoever. Just like he did with Cutler.

Archer81
04-14-2010, 11:42 AM
Drama queen?!

Yeah you're right, it's just a blip, a minor speed bump ... no need to be concerned.

Get out your scales, MARSHALL vs. McBATH+QUINN.

Yeah, no need to be concerned.


So...how many wins did the all world talents of Cutler, Hillis, Scheffler and Marshall bring us a season?...

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 11:44 AM
oh I forgot the /sarcasm thing. This year O is going to be hard on the eyes.

Actually I wasn't being sarcastic. He brought up the Nolan thing as a defense of Josh in some way ... but the reality is Nolan, like the offensive players, was under Josh's purview. So Nolan should be added to the offensive guys' list. As should Jim Goodman.

Look, Josh has every right to fashion he team the way he wants it, to bring in his guys. I defended him on Paxton, and on a few others. But there has to be a limit ... and the loss of offensive production under Josh has reached epidemic levels. We have almost nothing now. What offensive skill player scares anybody? None.

It's a definite pattern. Josh might be in the right, the varied and sundry explanations for each might all be correct. But I'm doubting it.

SouthStndJunkie
04-14-2010, 11:47 AM
Josh better make good use of all these draft picks, or the team will be screwed.

Giving all these draft picks the last 2 years to Josh McDaniels is like giving a retarded man a giant pile of coke, $100,000, and some strippers to have a good time with for the night.

Someone will be doing some coke, someone will be having sex, and the $100,000 will be gone at the end of night, but the retarded man will just run around making noise and jacking off all over the place.

Archer81
04-14-2010, 11:50 AM
Josh better make good use of all these draft picks, or the team will be screwed.

Giving all these draft picks the last 2 years to Josh McDaniels is like giving a retarded man a giant pile of coke, $100,000, and some strippers to have a good time with for the night.

Someone will be doing some coke, someone will be having sex, and the $100,000 will be gone at the end of night, but the retarded man will just run around making noise and jacking off all over the place.

Switch out retarded with "Lex", "Dragster" or "BF7" and the comparison becomes valid.

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 11:50 AM
How do you figure? And please factor in that they traded away not only a malcontent distraction but a $50 million obligation, $24 million of it guaranteed. Hopefully that money will be used wisely elsewhere.

I'm not talking money. And if money is the defense to all this, well that's just sad. Money was no object when we were winning Super Bowls. Money is a bad justification for offing all these guys .....


To Chris: How many wins did they bring us you ask? How about compare the replacements to the guys lost, that's a better gauge.

Besides, we had the worst defense in the league, '07 and '08 combined ... but jumped to #7 (I think 7, right?) in 2009. And yet we won the same number of games. Explain that.


And DenverBrit ... that's funny lol. No, not competitively, but sometimes professionally :~ohyah!:

SouthStndJunkie
04-14-2010, 11:51 AM
Switch out retarded with "Lex", "Dragster" or "BF7" and the comparison becomes valid.

:Broncos:

If we don't get some impact players out of the 2009 and 2010 drafts, it will be valid.

A nutless monkey could not screw up all the picks we have accumulated.

SleepingTiger
04-14-2010, 11:51 AM
Big Madden fan eh?

The only numbers that matter are Lombardis, and a player's worth is a lot deeper than stats.

Hell Sharpe is better than BM by a longshot in the big picture.

Rod was a leader, an example and everything Broncos football should be. Even putting that petulant child into the same category as a total player shows how little you know about football.

But go ahead and keep spinning this as if it were a fantasy team....because I am the moron right?

what are you, 14yrs old? i guess Randy Moss is only petulant child compared to Rod since he was a problem and never won a lombardi?

Archer81
04-14-2010, 11:51 AM
I'm not talking money. And if money is the defense to all this, well that's just sad. Money was no object when we were winning Super Bowls. Money is a bad justification for offing all these guys .....

To Chris: How many wins did they bring us you ask? How about compare the replacements to the guys lost, that's a better gauge.

Besides, we had the worst defense in the league, '07 and '08 combined ... but jumped to #7 (I think 7, right?) in 2009. And yet we won the same number of games. Explain that.

And DenverBrit ... that's funny lol. No, not competitively, but sometimes professionally :~ohyah!:


Blah blah worst defense. Cutler is the franchise, Marshall is a beast, Hillis is a one man wrecking crew and Scheffler has the hands of an angel and the speed of a cheetah...that alone should have overcome our defensive deficiencies and made us champions of the world...

:Broncos:

Rabb
04-14-2010, 11:52 AM
Josh better make good use of all these draft picks, or the team will be screwed.

Giving all these draft picks the last 2 years to Josh McDaniels is like giving a retarded man a giant pile of coke, $100,000, and some strippers to have a good time with for the night.

Someone will be doing some coke, someone will be having sex, and the $100,000 will be gone at the end of night, but the retarded man will just run around making noise and jacking off all over the place.

you just described my last Vegas trip

Archer81
04-14-2010, 11:53 AM
If we don't get some impact players out of the 2009 and 2010 drafts, it will be valid.

A nutless monkey could not screw up all the picks we have accumulated.


You should not make fun of Rasta. He tries very hard.

I agree. If you are going to make trades for picks, make the picks worth it or the bus out of town will be a very lonely place to be.


:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 11:54 AM
Fixed it for you.

Had we kept Jim Goodman, maybe ....

But Darcel McBath and Richard Quinn are who Josh brought us. (hell he traded UP for Quinn). But those two are the relevant comparison. Projecting Goodman draft results to Josh is a stretch. Admittedly McBath and Quinn are both very young, but still .... the comparison is chilling.

HAT
04-14-2010, 11:54 AM
Fixed it for you.

Let me go ahead and respond for him here Bean....

"Those were SHANNY/GOODMAN picks.....McX has shown he cannot draft in the second round at all!!!! blah,blah,blah " /Buff

HAT
04-14-2010, 11:55 AM
Dammit! I missed it by a few seconds.....So predictable nonetheless.

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2010, 11:56 AM
But Darcel McBath and Richard Quinn are who Josh brought us. Hell, he actually traded UP for Quinn. Admittedly they are both very young, but still .... the comparison is chilling.

According to your argument about Nolan elsewhere, he and he alone was responsible for the McBath pick.

Rabb
04-14-2010, 11:57 AM
what are you, 14yrs old? i guess Randy Moss is only petulant child compared to Rod since he was a problem and never won a lombardi?

reading comprehension, it's not for everyone

welcome to the ignore list!

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 11:57 AM
Let me go ahead and respond for him here Bean....

"Those were SHANNY/GOODMAN picks.....McX has shown he cannot draft in the second round at all!!!! blah,blah,blah " /Buff

NAILED IT! (seriously, you nailed that one :~ohyah!:)

Still, those are facts. And facts are stubborn things.


Buff out.

And by that I mean I gotta go. Haters ;D

SleepingTiger
04-14-2010, 11:58 AM
If we don't get some impact players out of the 2009 and 2010 drafts, it will be valid.

A nutless monkey could not screw up all the picks we have accumulated.

let see how these picks pan out. lets hope we can pick up another Rod Smith and TD type player with these picks.

ColoradoDarin
04-14-2010, 11:59 AM
The question is why we traded him for less than a 1st round pick. If the offers didn't match the on field production why didn't we stick with the on field production?

We traded him for about the value of the 28th overall pick (#43 this year plus a mid-3rd round pick value for the 2nd next year)

Rohirrim
04-14-2010, 12:01 PM
Jamal Williams, Justin Bannan, Jarvis Green.

SleepingTiger
04-14-2010, 12:06 PM
reading comprehension, it's not for everyone

welcome to the ignore list!

good comeback... "i can't argue my point worth of crap even after I called you out, so im going to put you on ignore"

bronco militia
04-14-2010, 12:08 PM
Josh better make good use of all these draft picks, or the team will be screwed.

Giving all these draft picks the last 2 years to Josh McDaniels is like giving a retarded man a giant pile of coke, $100,000, and some strippers to have a good time with for the night.

Someone will be doing some coke, someone will be having sex, and the $100,000 will be gone at the end of night, but the retarded man will just run around making noise and jacking off all over the place.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::giggle:

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 12:10 PM
Jamal Williams, Justin Bannan, Jarvis Green.

Huge huge huge .... seriously, best moves yet by Josh.

And maybe, just maybe ... he's better than Nolan. Remember, Nolan had the (misguided) notion to build a defense back to front. After he left, suddenly we sign these three pillars.

This year we'll be so different .... excellent defense, average offense.

How long has it been since we could say that?

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 12:12 PM
A nutless monkey could not screw up all the picks we have accumulated.

That's what we said last year.

With 5 picks in the first 64.

bronclvr
04-14-2010, 12:13 PM
Huge huge huge .... seriously, best moves yet by Josh.

And maybe, just maybe ... he's better than Nolan. Remember, Nolan had the (misguided) notion to build a defense back to front. After he left, suddenly we sign these three pillars.

This year we'll be so different .... excellent defense, average offense.

How long has it been since we could say that?



I was on another Forum this morning (not Bronco related), and a Pats Fan posted this:

"Sucked losing McDaniels....offense wasn't the same without him. He is a super bright young guy, and he just proved it by somehow getting two second round picks for a talented cancer. "

Steve Sewell
04-14-2010, 12:13 PM
Pretty much. No wrs on the field could get open. Much more likely than your conspiracy theory of Mcdaniels trying to prove a point with Gaffney.

You are a thick one.

Kyle Orton went 32-56 with for 431 yards. CLEARLY none of our receivers could get open during the game. Especially that baddie Jabar Gaffney who grabbed 14 balls for over 200 yards.

NYC Bronco
04-14-2010, 12:13 PM
We should take a flier on TO. Just sayin.

gyldenlove
04-14-2010, 12:14 PM
We traded him for about the value of the 28th overall pick (#43 this year plus a mid-3rd round pick value for the 2nd next year)

116 for 2011 2nd rounder and 470 for #43, that makes 586 which is less than the 32st pick in the draft.

TheDave
04-14-2010, 12:19 PM
in 2 drafts McD will have drafted:

1st round: 3
2nd round: 5
3rd round: 1
4th round: 3
5th round: 1
6th round: 2
7th round: 2

That is a **** load of picks.

ColoradoDarin
04-14-2010, 12:22 PM
116 for 2011 2nd rounder and 470 for #43, that makes 586 which is less than the 32st pick in the draft.

Pick #43 - 470 points - we agree on that
I used pick #80 (mid point 3rd rounder) to discount the value of the 2nd round one year - 190 points

Total - 660 points = #28 this year.

You think Miami is winning the Superbowl this year? I guess someone else can counter that Miami will go 0-16 and the equivalent pick is #24.

SouthStndJunkie
04-14-2010, 12:25 PM
in 2 drafts McD will have drafted:

4-1st round
4-2nd round
3-3rd round
2-4th round
2-5th round
2-6th round
3 7th round

That is a **** load of picks.

Those picks right there will determine Josh's future with the Denver Broncos. If he screws them up, then he deserves to get **** canned,

I was not impressed with the 2009 draft at all (but am willing to give that draft class another year to pan out).

We need to hit big on the 2010 draft class.

TheDave
04-14-2010, 12:27 PM
Those picks right there will determine Josh's future with the Denver Broncos. If he screws them up, then he deserves to get **** canned,

I was not impressed with the 2009 draft at all (but am willing to give that draft class another year to pan out).

We need to hit big on the 2010 draft class.

You're right, with 9 day one picks (1-3 round) we should have several starters out of it.

For better or worse this is the core of our team for the next few years.

Steve Sewell
04-14-2010, 12:41 PM
I've been tracking this thread, and there are people lamenting Brandon Marshall's departure as something that the Broncos had control over. Some education is required:

1) Brandon Marshall is an off-field incident away from a 1-year suspension. I hope I don't need to re-hash the reasons for this, as they are well known.

2) Brandon Marshall demanded a trade in the off season last year and subsequently made a fool of himself as a professional.

3) Brandon Marshall was given the opportunity to redeem himself this past season, and for the most part he did...that is, up until he reached the 100 catch milestone and learned that he made the pro bowl. He then "mailed it in" which resulted in him sitting for the final game of the season. It's pretty obvious that he knew his payday was secured at this point.

4) And finally, HE DOESN'T GIVE A **** ABOUT THE BRONCOS AND DIDN'T WANT TO PLAY HERE!

Seriously, I don't know why this is even being debated. There was 0% chance that Marshall was going to play in Denver this year, and the Broncos just got a **** load of value out of a player that would have never played for them again. If you think there was any chance that he would be a Bronco, you are completely delusional.

Why in god's name would Denver pay this man his market value given all the evidence that he didn't want to be here, not to mention the tremendous risk involved?

Kudos to the Broncos staff for fleecing the living **** out of yet another team this off-season.

BroncoInferno
04-14-2010, 12:43 PM
That's what we said last year.

With 5 picks in the first 64.

And the jury is still out on that. Seriously, why is it so hard to get it through your heads that many productive players did not do much as rookies? There are countless examples (Trevor Pryce, Michael Strahan--even the guy we just traded only had 20 catches as a rookie).

Killericon
04-14-2010, 12:44 PM
http://www.ianfernando.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/funny-pictures-racoon-yes.jpg

Paladin
04-14-2010, 12:51 PM
I've been tracking this thread, and there are people lamenting Brandon Marshall's departure as something that the Broncos had control over. Some education is required:

1) Brandon Marshall is an off-field incident away from a 1-year suspension. I hope I don't need to re-hash the reasons for this, as they are well known.

2) Brandon Marshall demanded a trade in the off season last year and subsequently made a fool of himself as a professional.

3) Brandon Marshall was given the opportunity to redeem himself this past season, and for the most part he did...that is, up until he reached the 100 catch milestone and learned that he made the pro bowl. He then "mailed it in" which resulted in him sitting for the final game of the season. It's pretty obvious that he knew his payday was secured at this point.

4) And finally, HE DOESN'T GIVE A **** ABOUT THE BRONCOS AND DIDN'T WANT TO PLAY HERE!

Seriously, I don't know why this is even being debated. There was 0% chance that Marshall was going to play in Denver this year, and the Broncos just got a **** load of value out of a player that would have never played for them again. If you think there was any chance that he would be a Bronco, you are completely delusional.

Why in god's name would Denver pay this man his market value given all the evidence that he didn't want to be here, not to mention the tremendous risk involved?

Kudos to the Broncos staff for fleecing the living **** out of yet another team this off-season.

And he is trying to escape the memory of how he contributed to the death of D. Williams........

He needed to get out of town......

long beach bronco
04-14-2010, 12:53 PM
Hey Junkman, he'd better get some playmakers in here, i'm tellin ya.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 01:02 PM
And the jury is still out on that. Seriously, why is it so hard to get it through your heads that many productive players did not do much as rookies?

Through my head? I said EXACTLY THAT ... "the jury is out" on the '09 class, and oh so sensitive guys like Hercules attacked me from every angle, including this numnutz: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2611684&postcount=88

But I'm glad to see you agree with me Inferno.

Yes, the jury's still out, I was right of course. Even so, I think we can be pretty sure McBath is no Dennis Smith and Quinn is no Shannon Sharpe.

And whoever said - Sewell - that Brandon is one strike away from a year suspension is wrong.

ZONA
04-14-2010, 01:03 PM
WOW - sad to see him go but I am happy with the compensation. Very glad to see we got the extra pick in there for 2011. We will find good use for the extra 2nd this year and when next year rolls around, and we are all on this board talking about the draft again, we'll be totally stoked about the extra 2nd round pick we have.


...........and you never know, we could still use that 2011 pick this year in another trade. But I'd prefer we keep it. It's nice going into each draft with 3 picks in the first two rounds.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 01:06 PM
Hey Junkman, he'd better get some playmakers in here, i'm tellin ya.

Cupboard is bare on offense now, not a reliable playmaker in sight.

Actually, Eddie is ... if we use him more.

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2010, 01:08 PM
And whoever said - Sewell - that Brandon is one strike away from a year suspension is wrong.

How is he wrong? Unless your last name is Goodell, you have no way of knowing this.

Archer81
04-14-2010, 01:08 PM
Through my head? I said EXACTLY THAT ... "the jury is out" on the '09 class, and oh so sensitive guys like Hercules attacked me from every angle, including this numnutz: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2611684&postcount=88

But I'm glad to see you agree with me Inferno.

Yes, the jury's still out, I was right of course. Even so, I think we can be pretty sure McBath is no Dennis Smith and Quinn is no Shannon Sharpe.

And whoever said - Sewell - that Brandon is one strike away from a year suspension is wrong.

Shannon did not become the Sharpe we all know and love until year 4, when he had an 80 catch season.

Dennis Smith had 1 pick in his rookie year. I cant find his tackle stats. He did not have an impact season until 1983, when he had 5 sacks and 4 ints.

:Broncos:

cutthemdown
04-14-2010, 01:13 PM
LOL at Brandon Marshall living anywhere near Miami beach. LOL he will never last. He will party, get in trouble, and get suspended. bank on it.

I've spent time in that city, it's really hard not to party down. I mean really hard. I can't think of a city that parties more outside of maybe New York city.

Chief Macho
04-14-2010, 01:14 PM
You are a thick one.

Kyle Orton went 32-56 with for 431 yards. CLEARLY none of our receivers could get open during the game. Especially that baddie Jabar Gaffney who grabbed 14 balls for over 200 yards.

Keep insulting me, dude. Nothing makes you looked more desperate to win an argument. You started out by claiming Josh wanted to prove something that day, and in fact all he proved was he could have an offense score 22 points and give up 14. On two huge plays, without Marshall being there, Orton had no one open, or no one he trusted, and so he made bad reads and threw picks. Numbers aside, Orton was at his worst that day. Thats the truth. You claiming to have some inside knowledge of what Mcdaniels was trying to do to show up Marshall is horse**** speculation. We can disagree, but you questioning my intelligence is just childish.

cutthemdown
04-14-2010, 01:15 PM
Also good riddance to bad trash if you ask me. WR don't make an NFL team. Sucks that one so good has to be such an asshole, but oh well we move on. Get rid of Scheff next and we can start building a new offense.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 01:19 PM
How is he wrong? Unless your last name is Goodell, you have no way of knowing this.

Come on .... your argument is against HIM, not me. I hope you can see that.

There are graduated levels of discipline that DO indicate a 1-year suspension for the next violation ... Travis Henry was there, I think Santonio Holmes is there. Brandon however, is not. Sewell was wrong, a suspension can of course be anything Goodell chooses it to be, but Marshall is not up against the mandatory 1-year.

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2010, 01:20 PM
Sewell was wrong, his next suspension is not 1-year. It can be anything Goodell chooses it to be.

These two sentences contradict each other.

Unless I'm mistaken, all Sewall was doing was saying it was probably going to be one year. Most of us here agree with that. Unless it's something really minor, he's not going to get the simple slap on the wrist of 2 or 4 games. He's been there, done that. He can hope for 8, but 16 is a very distinct possibility given the warnings and suspensions he's already received.

extralife
04-14-2010, 01:25 PM
God damn it

gyldenlove
04-14-2010, 01:26 PM
Pick #43 - 470 points - we agree on that
I used pick #80 (mid point 3rd rounder) to discount the value of the 2nd round one year - 190 points

Total - 660 points = #28 this year.

You think Miami is winning the Superbowl this year? I guess someone else can counter that Miami will go 0-16 and the equivalent pick is #24.

You always assume that a future pick will be the last of the round, that is why 2011 draft picks have so little value even after the 2010 draft. It is true that from a purely statistical point of view you make the smallest compounded mistake by assuming a pick in the middle of the round, but since any mistake you do make that does not benefit you is going to look bad on your resume you take the minimum value.

gyldenlove
04-14-2010, 01:28 PM
How is he wrong? Unless your last name is Goodell, you have no way of knowing this.

That is why he is wrong, he made a statement that Marshall is on incident away from a 16 game ban, since he not only has no way of knowing if this is true but no precedence to base it on that has to be assumed to be wrong unless he of course gets a statement from Goodell to back up his claim.

In fact any statement as to how long a suspension Marshall will get for the next incident should be considered wrong.

gyldenlove
04-14-2010, 01:29 PM
Also good riddance to bad trash if you ask me. WR don't make an NFL team. Sucks that one so good has to be such an a-hole, but oh well we move on. Get rid of Scheff next and we can start building a new offense.

Man, it is a good thing that it only takes 12 months to dismantle an offense that features a mid 20s pro bowl QB, WR, bookend OTs and the top RB prospect. Now we have to rebuild?

Rabb
04-14-2010, 01:30 PM
That is why he is wrong, he made a statement that Marshall is on incident away from a 16 game ban, since he not only has no way of knowing if this is true but no precedence to base it on that has to be assumed to be wrong unless he of course gets a statement from Goodell to back up his claim.

In fact any statement as to how long a suspension Marshall will get for the next incident should be considered wrong.

that is true

I mean who knows the difference in suspension between a DUI or keeping the ol' pimp hand strong with the little woman

good point

bpc
04-14-2010, 01:31 PM
It warms my heart to know that a ****head is off our roster.

At the same time, I can't help but laugh at how pathetic McDaniel's poker face is. He's so arrogant, people know what he's gonna do, before he does it.

"I would love to have Brandon back with us next year..."

Not a single GM in the league bought that hence why our compensation for a 3x 100 catch WR was far less than what we should have got.

I just have to laugh. The MCD protectors will come out and claim what a miraculous victory this was getting two 2nd round picks for Marshall! Fact is we just lost our best skill position player on offense and we have nothing to show for it. It's laughable.

BTW, drafting Dez Bryant will compound this stupidity 10 fold.

ColoradoDarin
04-14-2010, 01:32 PM
You always assume that a future pick will be the last of the round, that is why 2011 draft picks have so little value even after the 2010 draft. It is true that from a purely statistical point of view you make the smallest compounded mistake by assuming a pick in the middle of the round, but since any mistake you do make that does not benefit you is going to look bad on your resume you take the minimum value.

Even then, you're arguing the difference between #32 (last pick in the first round, and thus still first round value) and #32.4 (4 points out of the first round, rounded up to #32 still first round value)

TonyR
04-14-2010, 01:39 PM
...our compensation for a 3x 100 catch WR was far less than what we should have got.


How would you then explain the comp Arizona got for Boldin and Pittsburgh got for Holmes? Both teams got far less than Denver got for Marshall.

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2010, 01:42 PM
That is why he is wrong, he made a statement that Marshall is on incident away from a 16 game ban, since he not only has no way of knowing if this is true but no precedence to base it on that has to be assumed to be wrong unless he of course gets a statement from Goodell to back up his claim.

In fact any statement as to how long a suspension Marshall will get for the next incident should be considered wrong.

Nope. Not to beat a dead horse, but it's a prediction, so technically he's not wrong until Marshall has an incident that doesn't result in a 16 game ban. As of today, there is still the possibility that he is right.

ZONA
04-14-2010, 01:47 PM
Man, it is a good thing that it only takes 12 months to dismantle an offense that features a mid 20s pro bowl QB, WR, bookend OTs and the top RB prospect. Now we have to rebuild?

Cutler went to 1 pro-bowl, but has been leading or close to leading the NFL in INT's for 3 straight years. Moving him was the right choice.

Rabb
04-14-2010, 01:49 PM
Man, it is a good thing that it only takes 12 months to dismantle an offense that features a mid 20s pro bowl QB, WR, bookend OTs and the top RB prospect. Now we have to rebuild?

the defense is in a seriously better state than last year which was already in a dramatically better state than 2008

those OTs are still here as well as the RB

but yeah, it's a total rebuild ROFL!

rastaman
04-14-2010, 03:24 PM
Man, it is a good thing that it only takes 12 months to dismantle an offense that features a mid 20s pro bowl QB, WR, bookend OTs and the top RB prospect. Now we have to rebuild?

Apparently McD felt the only way to take the Broncos back to the playoffs and SB's was to dismantle Shanny's philosophy and getting rid of the free-spirited Shanny drafted players.

Should Cutler and Marshall become important cogs in helping their new teams win and both return/continue their Pro Bowl caliber of play vs McD not replacing Cutler and Marshall with suitable talent and impact players he will become a Joke in the NFL and the fans will call for his firing.

Then again McD could prove his doubters wrong and bring the Bilichick/NE winning tradition to the Rocky Mountains.

Hogan11
04-14-2010, 04:35 PM
Apparently McD felt the only way to take the Broncos back to the playoffs and SB's was to dismantle Shanny's philosophy and getting rid of the free-spirited Shanny drafted players.

Should Cutler and Marshall become important cogs in helping their new teams win and both return/continue their Pro Bowl caliber of play vs McD not replacing Cutler and Marshall with suitable talent and impact players he will become a Joke in the NFL and the fans will call for his firing.

Then again McD could prove his doubters wrong and bring the Bilichick/NE winning tradition to the Rocky Mountains.

Didja get your Marshall Dolphins jersey yet?

gyldenlove
04-14-2010, 04:38 PM
the defense is in a seriously better state than last year which was already in a dramatically better state than 2008

those OTs are still here as well as the RB

but yeah, it's a total rebuild ROFL!

I wasn't the one who said we needed a couple of years to rebuild the offense.

rastaman
04-14-2010, 04:44 PM
Didja get your Marshall Dolphins jersey yet?

Nope I haven't gotten my Cutter-Bears-Shanny-Wash-Marshall Dolphins Jersey(s) b/c I don't believe in wasting money, nor am I an NFL CUSTOMER like some people who mysteriously call themselves fans.

Which are you? Are you a fan masquerading around as a customer! :P

DBroncos4life
04-14-2010, 05:03 PM
I heard some pretty troubling things on sirius radio from Vonnie Holliday in regards to Mike Nolan/McD. Also the host (either Tim Ryan or Pat Kirwan) was talking about how he knew Nolan for quite sometime and he is very easy to get along with. Take it for what it's worth. I'm not trying to stir anything up. Holliday said somethings happened behind close doors during the season to make Nolan and McD part ways. Stuff we pretty much already knew.

Something else that came up was how much the Pats love Dez Bryant. I think Denver will swap first round picks with New England come draft day.

Lev Vyvanse
04-14-2010, 05:09 PM
I heard some pretty troubling things on sirius radio from Vonnie Holliday in regards to Mike Nolan/McD.

Go on.

oubronco
04-14-2010, 05:12 PM
Go on.

No doubt i'm intrigued

DBroncos4life
04-14-2010, 05:15 PM
Go on.

Holliday talked up Nolan. As I said they talked about how something changed behind the scene with the two of them (Nolan and McD). Nolan was real easy to get along with. Also Holliday called and told his friends what to look forward with Nolan being in Miami now. It pretty much came off from the host as well as Holliday that McD might not be the easiest person to get along with. Quite a few callers wondered what McD's plan is for the long run.

baja
04-14-2010, 05:16 PM
Go on.

I listened to that too.

They were questioning McD's inability to get along with players and coaches. They said they could understand Cutler and marshall to a degree but not Nolan. They were going on personality only. They said they know Nolan personally and that he was easy to get along with but they never took into account that there maybe philosophical differences in what defense to run which was reported locally to be the case.

rastaman
04-14-2010, 05:18 PM
Holliday talked up Nolan. As I said they talked about how something changed behind the scene with the two of them (Nolan and McD). Nolan was real easy to get along with. Also Holliday called and told his friends what to look forward with Nolan being in Miami now. It pretty much came off from the host as well as Holliday that McD might not be the easiest person to get along with. Quite a few callers wondered what McD's plan is for the long run.

Well lets hope McD has learned from his mistakes last season and has worked on his people skills during the off-season. :sunshine:

Lev Vyvanse
04-14-2010, 05:19 PM
I listened to that too.

They were questioning McD's inability to get along with players and coaches. They said they could understand Cutler and marshall to a degree but not Nolan. They were going on personality only. They said they know Nolan personally and that he was easy to get along with but they never took into account that there maybe philosophical differences in what defense to run which was reported locally to be the case.

That doesn't sound so bad.

rastaman
04-14-2010, 05:23 PM
I listened to that too.

They were questioning McD's inability to get along with players and coaches. They said they could understand Cutler and marshall to a degree but not Nolan. They were going on personality only. They said they know Nolan personally and that he was easy to get along with but they never took into account that there maybe philosophical differences in what defense to run which was reported locally to be the case.

Don't forget Turner and Dennison jettison to other teams as well.:~ohyah!:

baja
04-14-2010, 05:25 PM
That doesn't sound so bad.

It wasn't favorable to Josh but they made a lot of assumptions

The basically convicted Josh as an unbending tyrant based on the volume of cases ( Cutler Marshall Scheffler Nolan) where friction led to departures without considering the individual situations.

DBroncos4life
04-14-2010, 05:25 PM
That doesn't sound so bad.

I agree, however it also doesn't do anything to calm my fears. ;D

I was more into how the word is how much the Pats love Dez Bryant and how there are two camps within the Steelers organization that are trying to figure out what to do with Big Ben. A smaller group wants him gonzo. Both sides agreed to wait till draft day to decide what to do with him. Also some rumors about the Rams wanting to deal the first overall pick to the Steelers for Big Ben come draft day.

Dagmar
04-14-2010, 05:27 PM
Don't forget Turner and Dennison jettison to other teams as well.:~ohyah!:

Jettisoned to promotions?

DBroncos4life
04-14-2010, 05:28 PM
It wasn't favorable to Josh but they made a lot of assumptions

The basically convicted Josh as an unbending tyrant based on the volume of cases ( Cutler Marshall Scheffler Nolan) where friction led to departures without considering the individual situations.

I kind of got out of it that Holliday won't be back with us next year. Maybe I read too much into it though. I think he wants to go with Nolan if he can.

baja
04-14-2010, 05:30 PM
Don't forget Turner and Dennison jettison to other teams as well.:~ohyah!:

Be reasonable dude they both got promotions & raises and they are ZBS coaches and we don't run the ZBS anymore. There was no place for them in Denver. They are two very good coaches that left because of the direction of the new Broncos not because of Josh and I think you can add Nolan to that list. One thing is for sure the truth about Josh will become clear this season.

baja
04-14-2010, 05:32 PM
I kind of got out of it that Holliday won't be back with us next year. Maybe I read too much into it though. I think he wants to go with Nolan if he can.

I do think the verdict is still out on Josh's ability to handle people but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt given the evidence we currently have to go on.

DBroncos4life
04-14-2010, 05:37 PM
I do think the verdict is still out on Josh's ability to handle people but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt given the evidence we currently have to go on.

I agree I think we get a better feel from going forward. Still though I just can't but feel a bad vibe from the FO. I wonder what Marshall will say if anything about the locker room.

Requiem
04-14-2010, 05:43 PM
I hope the Patriots swap picks with us. National Football Post has an article talking about how Billy B. is already fielding a **** ton of calls in regards to his second round arsenal, and interest in moving up or down. God damn, make it happen. If it ain't Spiller or Seanspoonie at #11 you can just **** yourself.

Steve Sewell
04-14-2010, 05:45 PM
Then again McD could prove his doubters wrong and bring the Bilichick/NE winning tradition to the Rocky Mountains.

This is the most likely scenario.

gunns
04-14-2010, 05:46 PM
NE was able to perform because they had HOF QB. Talent on field beats coaching systems.

We took a hit on talent, Denver needs to get lucky (like all teams do) and find some talent in draft.

Agreed but NE was able to perform in those years where they made the playoffs and won SB's with their top receivers being Branch, Reche Caldwell, David Givens because of their defense. Brady's two TD's in the Philly SB were 2 yards each and one was to a defensive player. NE had top ranked D's those years. Kind of like Trent Dilfer....the only receiver of any note that year for the Ravens was a TE named Sharpe. THAT's why we need to get some defensive talent in the draft.

watermock
04-14-2010, 05:47 PM
Holliday talked up Nolan. As I said they talked about how something changed behind the scene with the two of them (Nolan and McD). Nolan was real easy to get along with. Also Holliday called and told his friends what to look forward with Nolan being in Miami now. It pretty much came off from the host as well as Holliday that McD might not be the easiest person to get along with. Quite a few callers wondered what McD's plan is for the long run.

I'm shocked!

Steve Sewell
04-14-2010, 05:47 PM
Holliday talked up Nolan. As I said they talked about how something changed behind the scene with the two of them (Nolan and McD). Nolan was real easy to get along with. Also Holliday called and told his friends what to look forward with Nolan being in Miami now. It pretty much came off from the host as well as Holliday that McD might not be the easiest person to get along with. Quite a few callers wondered what McD's plan is for the long run.

Sounds like more of a philosophy conflict rather than a personality conflict. Believe it or not, there CAN be disagreements that are respectful and professional. Crazy, I know.

"AMG THAT GUY DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME AND I'M ALWAYS RIGHT WTF WHAT A JERK"

Cito Pelon
04-14-2010, 05:49 PM
I doubt that the O production will drop as a result of this trade. Marshall is good, no doubt. But I've seen him lose a first down trying to get RAC as many times as he's gained a first down with RAC.

I can see how some folks can get all worked up into a anti-FO frenzy about it. If I was less seasoned, I might be all worked up about the trade also.

The fact is, productive WR's are usually easily replaced, they tend to be a product of the system. Then factor in BM irritated a lot of his teammates.

It's interesting that BM had the highest season TD total of his career when McD came to town. Factor in two 2nds, factor in the contract, I think it will work out just fine for the Broncs.

DBroncos4life
04-14-2010, 05:50 PM
I wish Chad Mustard was still on the team my brother works with his brother. I doubt he would say anything anyways about the locker room.

rastaman
04-14-2010, 05:53 PM
I doubt that the O production will drop as a result of this trade. Marshall is good, no doubt. But I've seen him lose a first down trying to get RAC as many times as he's gained a first down with RAC.

I can see how some folks can get all worked up into a anti-FO frenzy about it. If I was less seasoned, I might be all worked up about the trade also.

The fact is, productive WR's are usually easily replaced, they tend to be a product of the system. Then factor in BM irritated a lot of his teammates.

It's interesting that BM had the highest season TD total of his career when McD came to town. Factor in two 2nds, factor in the contract, I think it will work out just fine for the Broncs.

It all depends if those 2nd round draft picks turn out to be impact players or pro bowl caliber players. Same goes for the 2 first round picks we get for Cutler. These draft picks must turn out to be high caliber players for the Broncos especially if Cutler and Marshall return to their pro bowl caliber of play.

baja
04-14-2010, 05:54 PM
I agree I think we get a better feel from going forward. Still though I just can't but feel a bad vibe from the FO. I wonder what Marshall will say if anything about the locker room.

You can bet Marshall will keep his mouth shut (traditionally not a problem for him) or suffer Parcells foot up his ass.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 06:01 PM
In fact any statement as to how long a suspension Marshall will get for the next incident should be considered wrong.

BUT HE IS NOT up against the "mandatory" one-year suspension. Although "mandatory" probably not the right word.

THERE IS A POINT in the graduated sequence of the Goodell discipline system, that a 1-year is the next step. Remember, Travis Henry had a one-year "hanging over his head," as did Pacman, as supposedly does Santana Moss, according to somebody in that thread. Whatever it means to have the next suspension is a "1-year hanging over your head," MARSHALL IS NOT THERE, PERIOD.

In fact the general "he's a bad seed" mindset around here is slightly overstated, or at least not supported by his NFL disciplinary history. In fact, Marshall's discipline has been quite mild: One incident resulted in no discipline, and another in a 2-game suspension that was quickly reduced to 1. And remember one complainer blackmailed/extorted Bowlen for cash.

I agree he's a childish pain-in-the-ass, but his "bad behavior" has been, at least slightly, overstated. To me, the worst thing he ever did was preseason punting the ball in practice. Hell, that might've been the worst thing I ever saw a player do.

Requiem
04-14-2010, 06:02 PM
How many times do you think Big Ben and Brandon have hurt women together, Buff?

baja
04-14-2010, 06:12 PM
BUT HE IS NOT up against the "mandatory" one-year suspension. Although "mandatory" probably not the right word.

THERE IS A POINT in the graduated sequence of the Goodell discipline system, that a 1-year is the next step. Remember, Travis Henry had a one-year "hanging over his head," as did Pacman, as supposedly does Santana Moss, according to somebody in that thread. Whatever it means to have the next suspension is a "1-year hanging over your head," MARSHALL IS NOT THERE, PERIOD.

In fact the general "he's a bad seed" mindset around here is slightly overstated, or at least not supported by his NFL disciplinary history. In fact, Marshall's discipline has been quite mild: One incident resulted in no discipline, and another in a 2-game suspension that was quickly reduced to 1. And remember one complainer blackmailed/extorted Bowlen for cash.

<b>I agree he's a childish pain-in-the-ass, but his "bad behavior" has been, at least slightly, overstated. To me, the worst thing he ever did was preseason punting the ball in practice. Hell, that might've been the worst thing I ever saw a player do.

Ya knocking women around is no big deal really, right Buff?

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 06:15 PM
How many times do you think Big Ben and Brandon have hurt women together, Buff?

I hate when I'm pushed in a corner like that, because I am and have always been very sensitive to such charges ... I've lost lots of money standing by these principles.

Let's look closely at Marshall: He has I think 4 complaints about such behavior, right? Well, the taxi-cab deal wasn't violence per se, and one of the complainants did extort the front office. The overall mild discipline from Goodell should indicate mitigating circumstances.

The worst incident I recall was when he went kinda postal at an Atlanta restaurant/club ... that was bad stuff. Can't defend him there ... he's an ass of a child, no doubt.

And comparing him to Ben is no fair. The stuff on Ben is extreeemely serious, from a criminal point of view. I'm not sure the sports media or even this board really appreciate just how serious these charges are/were. NFL discipline is probably the least of his worries.

DBroncos4life
04-14-2010, 06:17 PM
Sounds like more of a philosophy conflict rather than a personality conflict. Believe it or not, there CAN be disagreements that are respectful and professional. Crazy, I know.

"AMG THAT GUY DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME AND I'M ALWAYS RIGHT WTF WHAT A JERK"

OK, then I guess you know what happened then. Even Baja heard the interview and he said it wasn't favorable to McD.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 06:18 PM
Ya knocking women around is no big deal really, right Buff?

Please. I've given up literally thousands of dollars, tens of thousands, standing by my principles on this topic. You don't know me.

Maybe I'm missing something, but aside from the woman who extorted the front office, just exactly what were the worst circumstances re: violence against women?

DBroncos4life
04-14-2010, 06:21 PM
I hate when I'm pushed in a corner like that, because I am and have always been very sensitive to such charges ... I've lost lots of money standing by these principles.

Let's look closely at Marshall: He has I think 4 complaints about such behavior, right? Well, the taxi-cab deal wasn't violence per se, and one of the complainants did extort the front office. The overall mild discipline from Goodell should indicate mitigating circumstances.

The worst incident I recall was when he went kinda postal at an Atlanta restaurant/club ... that was bad stuff. Can't defend him there ... he's an ass of a child, no doubt.

And comparing him to Ben is no fair. The stuff on Ben is extreeemely serious, from a criminal point of view. I'm not sure the sports media or even this board really appreciate just how serious these charges are/were. NFL discipline is probably the least of his worries.

They are serious enough for a group of people high up with the Steelers that want his ass off the team. This is coming from someone in the Pittsburgh media with inside info. I think there is a 45% chance he is traded come draft day.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 06:28 PM
They are serious enough for a group of people high up with the Steelers that want his ass off the team. This is coming from someone in the Pittsburgh media with inside info. I think there is a 45% chance he is traded come draft day.

How about that ... thanks for the tid-bit. Hard to imagine ... Steelers might actually trade Big Ben, almost unthinkable.

Yeah, doesn't seem people are getting that stuff, he has more than one situation for which he could hook a very long chain upstate. Prison is not out of the question.

DBroncos4life
04-14-2010, 06:37 PM
How about that ... thanks for the tid-bit. Hard to imagine ... Steelers might actually trade Big Ben, almost unthinkable.

Yeah, doesn't seem people are getting that stuff, he has more than one situation for which he could hook a very long chain upstate. Prison is not out of the question.

It all depends on what side the Rooney's are on. Still there is a strong possibility he gets a team suspension if he is not traded anywhere from 2 to 4 games. I think they are done messing around with him. As is I think the locker room is going to be a mess this year for Pitt from the way they handled Holmes vs Big Ben if they don't do something to punish Big Ben.

Cito Pelon
04-14-2010, 06:39 PM
Well, BM has generally been painful for the Bronco franchise to deal with. I doubt there are many within the organization that lament BM gone and two 2nds in return.

TotallyScrewed
04-14-2010, 06:58 PM
Bowlen has to be a happy man today.

He's off the hook for BM, the police calls and the tens of millions he would have cost. Money that will be better spent building a team in Denver.

BM gets what he wants.......out of Denver (understandable remembering the DWill tragedy) and a huge payday from Miami, a beach and nightclubs.

Like the Cutler trade, both teams got value. But let's not get all misty eyed about losing those players. For all their talent, they couldn't get Denver into the playoffs.

Now if only Denver could get something for Scheffler.

It was Brandon's fault that he was their top receiver for the last three years. He obviously wasn't doing enough to win games. Now that he's gone, everyone else will suddenly be free to be all they haven't been so far.

Josh is going to be so much more brilliant w/o Brandon to worry him!!

We'll see...I sincerely hope that 8-8 or worse doesn't happen again for a long, long time. I'm skeptical at this point.

Dedhed
04-14-2010, 07:04 PM
BUT HE IS NOT up against the "mandatory" one-year suspension. Although "mandatory" probably not the right word.

THERE IS A POINT in the graduated sequence of the Goodell discipline system, that a 1-year is the next step. Remember, Travis Henry had a one-year "hanging over his head," as did Pacman, as supposedly does Santana Moss, according to somebody in that thread. Whatever it means to have the next suspension is a "1-year hanging over your head," MARSHALL IS NOT THERE, PERIOD.

In fact the general "he's a bad seed" mindset around here is slightly overstated, or at least not supported by his NFL disciplinary history. In fact, Marshall's discipline has been quite mild: One incident resulted in no discipline, and another in a 2-game suspension that was quickly reduced to 1. And remember one complainer blackmailed/extorted Bowlen for cash.

I agree he's a childish pain-in-the-ass, but his "bad behavior" has been, at least slightly, overstated. To me, the worst thing he ever did was preseason punting the ball in practice. Hell, that might've been the worst thing I ever saw a player do.He was suspended 4 games originally before it was reduced, and his next indulgence will result in 8 games with an unlikely chance at reduction.

Down play it all you want, but the guy is not worth it. To me he's more valuable to this franchise being in another city. Forget about the picks.
I'll feel far better rooting for a Broncos team without BM on it, and will doubly cheer any success that comes following his departure.

And I wouldn't call his issues with women or his role in the death of Darrent Williams "childish".

TotallyScrewed
04-14-2010, 07:48 PM
Originally slated to miss three games for a domestic violence incident (among other things), Marshall will now be back in time for the Broncos first home game against the Chargers.

I am glad the NFL took a second, good hard look at the case," [Marshall's lawyer Harvey] Steinberg told ESPN.com's Bill Williamson. "I am very pleased with the results."

Marshall flew to New York on Tuesday to meet with commissioner Roger Goodell. Goodell said originally that the three-game suspension would be reduced to two if Marshall kept in touch with a league-appointed counselor and stayed out of trouble.



Remember that Brandon complied with everything the NFL required...taking a class or getting counselling or whatever to finally reduce his suspension to one game.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 07:54 PM
And I wouldn't call his issues with women or his role in the death of Darrent Williams "childish".

What a bizarre and hateful thing to say ... he was not even remotely responsible for that.

Is that the depth to which the Marshall smearing is going to go?

Sad. There's plenty of stuff to rail on him about, don't stoop to that please.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2010, 07:58 PM
Originally slated to miss three games for a domestic violence incident (among other things), Marshall will now be back in time for the Broncos first home game against the Chargers.

I am glad the NFL took a second, good hard look at the case," [Marshall's lawyer Harvey] Steinberg told ESPN.com's Bill Williamson. "I am very pleased with the results."

Marshall flew to New York on Tuesday to meet with commissioner Roger Goodell. Goodell said originally that the three-game suspension would be reduced to two if Marshall kept in touch with a league-appointed counselor and stayed out of trouble.

Remember that Brandon complied with everything the NFL required...taking a class or getting counselling or whatever to finally reduce his suspension to one game.

It was three ... I stand corrected.


Still, Brandon Marshall is not "up against a 1-year suspension." Period.

I notice none of the experts have flocked in to explain the graduated discipline schedule the NFL instituted under Goodell. That speaks volumes, any anti-Marshall stuff would've reached three more pages by now. Whatever, he is NOT on the edge of the cliff like Pac Man, Travis Henry and Santonio Holmes are/were.

broncolife
04-14-2010, 08:01 PM
If we run the same crap O as last year it shouldnt hurt us too much. I am pretty sure we could have all rbs playing our wrs and we would be fine. Not to hard to catch 1 yard passes.

If we open our O up then I believe losing Marshall will hurt us, because were going to need somebody with ability to catch those errant throws by Orton.

baja
04-14-2010, 08:02 PM
All I can say is I hope Marshall signs his contract before he ****s up again and Miami calls the deal off.

DenverBrit
04-14-2010, 08:05 PM
It was Brandon's fault that he was their top receiver for the last three years. He obviously wasn't doing enough to win games. Now that he's gone, everyone else will suddenly be free to be all they haven't been so far.

Josh is going to be so much more brilliant w/o Brandon to worry him!!

We'll see...I sincerely hope that 8-8 or worse doesn't happen again for a long, long time. I'm skeptical at this point.

So you think Denver should have paid him the near $50 mill Miami has given him?

strafen
04-14-2010, 08:06 PM
If we run the same O as last year it shouldnt hurt us too much. I am pretty sure we could have all rbs playing our wrs and we would be fine. Not to hard to catch 1 yard passes.

If we open our O up then I believe losing Marshall will hurt us, because were going to need somebody with ability to catch those errant throws by Orton.Even with Marshall, our offense was anything but dynamic.
Do you really think is going to change?
I doubt it. McD could never figure out how to incorporate Royal, Scheffler, Hillis and Stokley into his highly complicated offense.
Now he has a bunch of nobodies to try to do it again.

strafen
04-14-2010, 08:07 PM
So you think Denver should have paid him the near $50 mill Miami has given him?Not that Denver should've. Is that Denver wasn't going to pay him, period...