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View Full Version : NFL GM's say "Broncos will trade Marshall"


Bronco Rob
04-12-2010, 04:52 AM
Consensus is Broncos will trade Marshall


Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post
Posted: 04/12/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT



I polled a handful of personnel executives throughout the NFL over the weekend and asked them if they still believed the Broncos would trade wide receiver Brandon Marshall before the April 22-24 draft or at least before the Broncos made a pick.

The consensus was yes, the Broncos would trade Marshall, and that no, they would not get a first-round pick for him when all was said and done.

At the root of that thought is they simply don't see how Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and Marshall can constructively coexist in the 2010 season no matter what the two have said in recent weeks.

Many general managers have said from the start they wouldn't give the Broncos a first-round pick for Marshall in large part because they didn't truly believe the Broncos would keep him.*

All of the personnel executives still believe the Seattle Seahawks will be Marshall's next stop, but they weren't discounting the Washington Redskins if the Broncos are willing to deal with their former coach, Mike Shanahan.



http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14865649




If we do not get a first round pick for Marshall I'm gonna flip like a cheese omelette!




:thumbsdow

cutthemdown
04-12-2010, 04:56 AM
I said from the very start Broncos wouldn't get a first. The only way Broncos can win in this situation is if people are wrong and Marshall really will play in Denver.

Otherwise its time to start looking at whoever has the best offer.

atomicbloke
04-12-2010, 05:03 AM
So I guess McD screwed up big time by going public with the differences. He should have kept it in house and dealt with it. I'll put it down to inexperience. Hopefully, he'll learn the art of media management from his (mis)experiences of last season.

fontaine
04-12-2010, 05:11 AM
Awesome, we'll trade our best offensive player for less than a first.

That's right on par in the stupid stakes with trading that first for A Smith.

bowtown
04-12-2010, 05:31 AM
Good thing there aren't any GMs in this league with hidden agendas or ulterior motives for wanting to see Brandon moved as cheaply as possible.

One thing is clear, we should all take this fine piece of journalism by Legwold as gospel and overreact as much as possible.

ColoradoDarin
04-12-2010, 06:02 AM
Good thing there aren't any GMs in this league with hidden agendas or ulterior motives for wanting to see Brandon moved as cheaply as possible.

One thing is clear, we should all take this fine piece of journalism by Legwold as gospel and overreact as much as possible.

Yes, I want to flip out and complain about stuff that hasn't even happened yet.

gunns
04-12-2010, 06:49 AM
Show them. Keep him. Then if they really want him, I guess it's a first for next year. And as far as I'm concerned, if we were taking players and a pick, Seattle doesn't really have anyone I want. Tampa Bay could hand over Barrett Ruud, the Jets Darrell Revis or David Harris, but I sincerely doubt they would. But I want that caliber of player if it's involved in a trade.

tsiguy96
04-12-2010, 07:01 AM
Good thing there aren't any GMs in this league with hidden agendas or ulterior motives for wanting to see Brandon moved as cheaply as possible.

One thing is clear, we should all take this fine piece of journalism by Legwold as gospel and overreact as much as possible.

can and will do. welcome to OM sir.

Traveler
04-12-2010, 07:07 AM
Hopefully they stick to their guns and only take a 1st for BM. If they don't get one, BM remains a Bronco.

Win, win situation for the team in my book.

Beantown Bronco
04-12-2010, 07:13 AM
How can he go from this:

[FONT=Calibri]Consensus is Broncos will trade Marshall

to this:

I polled a handful of personnel executives throughout the NFL over the weekend

He's drawing the entire premise/conclusion of his article from the statements of only 4 or 5 individuals out of the hundreds of personnel executives employed by the league. Way to go, dumbass.

TheReverend
04-12-2010, 07:13 AM
Good thing there aren't any GMs in this league with hidden agendas or ulterior motives for wanting to see Brandon moved as cheaply as possible.

One thing is clear, we should all take this fine piece of journalism by Legwold as gospel and overreact as much as possible.

Well, it's Legwold and not Klis, so it's not like he's out to bash in the name of sensationalism.

The real question is, "How many is a handful?"

TheReverend
04-12-2010, 07:13 AM
How can he go from this:



to this:



He's drawing the entire premise/conclusion of his article from the statements of only 4 or 5 individuals out of the hundreds of personnel executives employed by the league. Way to go, dumbass.

Nice timing bean :thumbsup:

bowtown
04-12-2010, 07:17 AM
Well, it's Legwold and not Klis, so it's not like he's out to bash in the name of sensationalism.

The real question is, "How many is a handful?"

Exactly, and who is the handful? Cause if includes any combination of John Schneider, Bruce Allen, Scott Pioli, AJ Smith, or Al Davis then I'd call it a tainted sample.

no-pseudo-fan
04-12-2010, 07:21 AM
We will see. I don't think that Denver is going to give Brandon away, and is stupid if they do.

Durango
04-12-2010, 07:25 AM
Awesome, we'll trade our best offensive player for less than a first.

That's right on par in the stupid stakes with trading that first for A Smith.

Exactly. If Seattle or Washington wants a premier receiver with loads of luggage so badly, then draft Dez Bryant.

HILife
04-12-2010, 07:27 AM
good thing there aren't any gms in this league with hidden agendas or ulterior motives for wanting to see brandon moved as cheaply as possible.

One thing is clear, we should all take this fine piece of journalism by legwold as gospel and overreact as much as possible.

yes, damn it, i will do that. The sky is falling!!!111!!!1!!

SportinOne
04-12-2010, 07:33 AM
i think the idea that most people are buying into here, myself included, is that IF Marshall is traded for less than a first it is complete stupidity on the part of the Broncos.

Good to see some of you in here so quickly to defend papa McDaniels. haha

Lolad
04-12-2010, 07:40 AM
Well something is going to happen for sure. Either we keep BM if we don't get a 1st or he gets traded for less than the asking price.

I hope this FO is more competent then what has been displayed in the past

bronco militia
04-12-2010, 07:41 AM
If we do not get a first round pick for Marshall I'm gonna flip like a cheese omelette!




:thumbsdow

the broncos will not get a 1st round pick for BM

Man-Goblin
04-12-2010, 07:43 AM
I just polled the guys in the break room of my office building. They, too, think the Broncos will eventually trade Marshall. They also think the coffee is a little weak today.

Beantown Bronco
04-12-2010, 07:49 AM
Well something is going to happen for sure.

Either we keep BM if we don't get a 1st

I'm confused. Doesn't keeping BM mean the opposite, that in fact nothing happened? If you believe that keeping him means "something happened", then provide me with a scenario where nothing happened.

meangene
04-12-2010, 07:56 AM
I know this is going to be unpopular around here but here goes. The first round tender on Marshall was nothing more than a starting point for negotiating a trade IMO. I think we were hoping someone would bite at that price and were not going to budge off of that until the offer period expired. That was also for the purpose of letting Marshall see exactly what he was, or wasn't, worth. Keep in mind that we need his cooperation in trading him - he either needs to sign an offer sheet or the tender. Once April 15th passes is when the real negotiations will begin. Clearly, many around here have overestimated his value as evidenced by the lack of an offer sheet and the other trades which have taken place - Boldin, McNabb, and, to some extent, Holmes. The market sets the value. I don't think we give him away, but I think his value is somewhere around a 2nd and another pick (4th?) or player. The compensation beyond the 2nd depends on how early the 2nd is. Keep in mind this is one of the best drafts in years and, so, the picks have greater value than most years. I also do not buy for a second that Marshall can truly become a team player or stay out of trouble. I don't buy that he and the Broncos (not just McDaniels) can co-exist. Further, if he stays in Denver for another season we are looking at best a 3rd round comp for him after the season (and, maybe, less depending on the new CBA).

bowtown
04-12-2010, 08:00 AM
I know this is going to be unpopular around here but here goes. The first round tender on Marshall was nothing more than a starting point for negotiating a trade IMO. I think we were hoping someone would bite at that price and were not going to budge off of that until the offer period expired. That was also for the purpose of letting Marshall see exactly what he was, or wasn't, worth. Keep in mind that we need his cooperation in trading him - he either needs to sign an offer sheet or the tender. Once April 15th passes is when the real negotiations will begin. Clearly, many around here have overestimated his value as evidenced by the lack of an offer sheet and the other trades which have taken place - Boldin, McNabb, and, to some extent, Holmes. The market sets the value. I don't think we give him away, but I think his value is somewhere around a 2nd and another pick (4th?) or player. The compensation beyond the 2nd depends on how early the 2nd is. Keep in mind this is one of the best drafts in years and, so, the picks have greater value than most years. I also do not buy for a second that Marshall can truly become a team player or stay out of trouble. I don't buy that he and the Broncos (not just McDaniels) can co-exist. Further, if he stays in Denver for another season we are looking at best a 3rd round comp for him after the season (and, maybe, less depending on the new CBA).

The bolded sentence is totally false and is why the entire argument fails.

broncswin
04-12-2010, 08:04 AM
:crazy::cuss::punched:

meangene
04-12-2010, 08:05 AM
The bolded sentence is totally false and is why the entire argument fails.

How is it false?

Beantown Bronco
04-12-2010, 08:12 AM
How is it false?

How is it true?

It's a prediction based off of a number of factors that you don't even know the answer to.

The new CBA?
His production this year? What if he puts up 1500 yds and 10 TDs and keeps his nose clean off the field?
What if they franchise tag him next year? If there is even a franshise tag system?
Maybe there is no tag system, so they lose him....but the compensation for lost FAs change and 2nd round comp picks are introduced.

You simply don't know any of these answers, so saying that "at best" all they could get next year is a 3rd is just blind guessing with no facts at all to back it up.

eddie mac
04-12-2010, 08:12 AM
Broncos writers with **** all to write about because none of them have any inside knowledge anymore.

Let's create a story otherwise I'm unemployed.

Jeff's got time on his hands this year cos there's no cap.

eddie mac
04-12-2010, 08:15 AM
How is it false?

It's not false but at this point no-one has a clue whether it'll be true or not.

So many factors cos at this point we dont even know if there'll be football in 2011.

Plus the fact if there's still no CBA, Marshall still has 1 more year to do before he hits UFA, (6 years needed).

Then you have the magic franchise tag, 2 available at present and 1 in any capped year.

A compensatory pick for Marshall is like the final frontier, totally last on the list of options.

meangene
04-12-2010, 08:31 AM
It's not false but at this point no-one has a clue whether it'll be true or not.

So many factors cos at this point we dont even know if there'll be football in 2011.

Plus the fact if there's still no CBA, Marshall still has 1 more year to do before he hits UFA, (6 years needed).

Then you have the magic franchise tag, 2 available at present and 1 in any capped year.

A compensatory pick for Marshall is like the final frontier, totally last on the list of options.

I guess part of what you said is my point. Based on the current system, we would probably be looking at a third round comp pick if he walks after next season. Could be more, could be less. I doubt any new CBA would continue the six years of service for free agency currently in effect. Keep in mind it was four and the major impasse between owners and players is the owners want to reduce the percentage of revenue going to the players. There is a good chance BM is unrestricted after this season. Will there still be franchise tags? How many? Would we want to use them on BM vs. someone like Doom? My point is, while we don't know for certain, what our options might be with BM after this season, I don't see it likely we would be in a better position than we are now. If he has a great season, that only means more teams lined up to bid for his services. Slap a tag on him and we have an unhappy Marshall once again. If he has a mediocre season or gets in trouble again, he is worth very little. Right now, we have a known situation and some leverage and control - next year we may not. Not saying give him away - but, taking everything into consideration, a 2nd and another pick or player is a good deal in the long run IMO. Told you this would not be a popular opinion around here. ;D

Beantown Bronco
04-12-2010, 08:34 AM
Based on the current system, we would probably be looking at a third round comp pick if he walks after next season. Could be more

Bingo. Don't you see how different this is from what you said above? Where you said "3rd rounder, AT BEST"?

meangene
04-12-2010, 08:41 AM
Bingo. Don't you see how different this is from what you said above? Where you said "3rd rounder, AT BEST"?

I see what you are saying. Should have clarified that would be what we would be looking at under the current system. I stand corrected on that point in my initial post.

yerner
04-12-2010, 08:49 AM
If the broncos give him away for anything less than a 1st or 2 2nds they pretty much have given him away for nothing. Should be fun to see the spin for the Mcdaniels "genius" here.

eddie mac
04-12-2010, 08:57 AM
If the broncos give him away for anything less than a 1st or 2 2nds they pretty much have given him away for nothing. Should be fun to see the spin for the Mcdaniels "genius" here.

Spin???

It takes 2 to tango yerner and unless I've been in a coma for 12-24 months, Brandon Marshall hasn't exactly been a well behaved Denver Bronco player.

Mediator12
04-12-2010, 09:15 AM
McDaniels is far from a genius and its pretty easy to base your argument on that fact. Shanahan was nowhere near a genius on the personnel level either. The man could put together an offensive gameplan with the best of them though, that was where he was a borderline genius.

However, in the interest of being biased above all else, let's label the guy and take cracks at him to make us feel better when things do not seem to go the teams way. That way I can create an argument where I can not lose.....

Seriously, McDaniels is no genius. However, he does have a system and a plan for both sides of the ball for the first time in years. Last year started off very promising before the defense failed mightily down the stretch and the offense never progressed. This is an entirely different approach from the team the previous year and it had the exact same results. All that while changing how everything was done. Now, he gets the second year and a little continuity to see where he has led the team.

Until then, I sincerely ask people to stop bashing a guy for no reason than to make yourself feel better.

Paladin
04-12-2010, 09:21 AM
The Denver writers are desparate for material. They will invent something to "stimulate" the fan base and get readership. Papers ain't what they used to be. It is far easier to go on the internet, find some Bronco board, speculate and grouse, p*ss and moan, stamp your littles feets, threaten coaches with banishment and tell them what to do, all eliminating the middleman, the sportswriter. Of course WE know what's best, dont WE?

What a hoot.

I am sure McD had Marshall kick the ball around during practice and had the news crews taking film of it at the same time. I am sure McD forced Marshall to miss his Rehab appointmenrs. I am sure McD told Marshall how to behave so that he could get more press from the media. I am sure McD was there when Marshall beat up on his girlfriends. I am sure McD is keeping Marshall one half step away from suspension. I a,mm sure McD is responsible for the disinterest if the ot her teams in trading for Marshall at a level WE believe he should be valued at.

Hoot, hoot.

baja
04-12-2010, 09:23 AM
McDaniels is far from a genius and its pretty easy to base your argument on that fact. Shanahan was nowhere near a genius on the personnel level either. The man could put together an offensive gameplan with the best of them though, that was where he was a borderline genius.

However, in the interest of being biased above all else, let's label the guy and take cracks at him to make us feel better when things do not seem to go the teams way. That way I can create an argument where I can not lose.....

Seriously, McDaniels is no genius. However, he does have a system and a plan for both sides of the ball for the first time in years. Last year started off very promising before the defense failed mightily down the stretch and the offense never progressed. This is an entirely different approach from the team the previous year and it had the exact same results. All that while changing how everything was done. Now, he gets the second year and a little continuity to see where he has led the team.

Until then, I sincerely ask people to stop bashing a guy for no reason than to make yourself feel better.

So Med is Mock ghost writing for you now?

Paladin
04-12-2010, 09:24 AM
So Med is Mock ghost writing for you now?

Obviously not. Med's post is logical....

DenverBrit
04-12-2010, 09:35 AM
Question is, will other teams be any more inclined than Denver to give BM the big payday he wants??

It's not just about the tendered pick, it's also about upping/matching the reported $9.5 million Denver offered, but with some serious guarantees.

BM's multiple police incidents are still an issue for any team thinking about giving him a big payday.

ScottXray
04-12-2010, 10:05 AM
I think that our 1st round tender was for Multiple reasons.
1. Denver set a high price on him to let BM know that the team does value his services. In addition it set a base line for other teams. If we had given him a lower tender it would have been a sure thing that he would have received several offers.
2. If a team did sign him we still had the ability to match the offer first, or take the other teams 1st round pick.
3. The fact that he has not received any offers let him know just how much
his Off field antics have hurt him. He will have to negotiate with any other team, just like he will with the Broncos. And guaranteed money is the sticking point, both here and any other place.

I also Don't think that Denver will trade him for less than they are asking. I think a lot of teams will call to ask about a trade after the signing period is over, and I think Denver will telll them the same thing....1st round or multiple High 2s and threes are the starting point. Other than us coming out ahead of that somehow, they will offer Marshall something like the deal of last Summer, maybe with a little sweetening of up front money. If he rejects it
then he can either sit or sign the tender.

The point is that Marshall is worth more on the field than most any rookie 1st round pick, but his previous history is is the reason he isn't getting
bombarded with offers.

Teams will try to trade for him, but Denver holds his rights, and unless someone offers at least close to equal value (on the field) should reject them. We can then go to Marshall and negotiate again. In fact we should
let him know what the other teams offer to further show him how much he is worth to us, versus them.

I think BM wants to get paid, and eventually will realise that he isn't going to get the kind of deal he wants from anyone, and that he actually can do well here. His agent should realise it too.

Hogan11
04-12-2010, 10:10 AM
the broncos will not get a 1st round pick for BM

They'll be lucky to get a low 2nd for him

Tombstone RJ
04-12-2010, 10:15 AM
They'll be lucky to get a low 2nd for him

In other words, welcome back Marshall! :thumbsup:

Beantown Bronco
04-12-2010, 10:17 AM
I think that our 1st round tender was for Multiple reasons.
1. Denver set a high price on him to let BM know that the team does value his services. In addition it set a base line for other teams. If we had given him a lower tender it would have been a sure thing that he would have received several offers.

I disagree. At least as far as say a 2nd round tender instead of a 1st. I'm a huge supporter of the "his contract demands are to blame for his not going elsewhere, not the tender" camp. And, actually, I think you are too....even though you may not even know it.

Look what you say here:

And guaranteed money is the sticking point, both here and any other place.

here:

I think BM wants to get paid, and eventually will realise that he isn't going to get the kind of deal he wants from anyone, and that he actually can do well here. His agent should realise it too.

and especially here:

The point is that Marshall is worth more on the field than most any rookie 1st round pick

Hogan11
04-12-2010, 10:20 AM
In other words, welcome back Marshall! :thumbsup:

For one more year, cue up the calliope

Popps
04-12-2010, 10:22 AM
Awesome, we'll trade our best offensive player for less than a first.

That's right on par in the stupid stakes with trading that first for A Smith.

If you want to write a thank you letter... address it to Brandon Marshall.

ScottXray
04-12-2010, 10:37 AM
I disagree. At least as far as say a 2nd round tender instead of a 1st. I'm a huge supporter of the "his contract demands are to blame for his not going elsewhere, not the tender" camp. And, actually, I think you are too....even though you may not even know it.

Look what you say here:



here:



and especially here:
You are right....I think Marshall is worth more to Denver than any package of picks. And I still think he would have had more teams interested and bringing him in for visits if he had received a lower tender. But they ALL would have made offers similar to what we did last summer, with little money up front, because of his past behavior. It sets the bar and lets him know that Denver values him highly, but guaranteed money is something HE has taken out of the question.

Now he could go one of two ways.
Either he realises that we are going to make him a very rich man if he keeps his nose clean, and that is about as good an offer as is possible, or he decides to sulk and act up again because nobody want to pay him what he thinks he is worth, thus lowering his value in a trade even more.

I'm hoping he takes the first path and decides to show the rest of the league what a mistake they made by not valuing him as much as the Broncos do.

montrose
04-12-2010, 10:37 AM
I've believed all offseason we'll be stuck with Marshall for another year and that hasn't changed.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-12-2010, 10:43 AM
The one thing that worries me about the Santonio Holmes trade is that, PR-wise, the broncos won't look as foolish for trading brandon for less than a first. (and if you think PR has nothing to do with this, youre a fool).

bronco militia
04-12-2010, 10:45 AM
The one thing that worries me about the Santonio Holmes trade is that, PR-wise, the broncos won't look as foolish for trading brandon for less than a first. (and if you think PR has nothing to do with this, youre a fool).

since when did hoody jr. care about PR? (looks at j-cutler trade)

SonOfLe-loLang
04-12-2010, 10:46 AM
since when did hoody jr. care about PR? (looks at j-cutler trade)

This is the exact reason while they will suddenly care about PR. And i was referring more to Bowlen than to McD

baja
04-12-2010, 10:52 AM
This is the exact reason while they will suddenly care about PR. And i was referring more to Bowlen than to McD

I doubt they factor PR into the decision making process much or if they do it's like 99% what is best for the Broncos and 1 % what will the fans think.

no-pseudo-fan
04-12-2010, 10:56 AM
Are we better with Brandon Marshall or a 2nd or 3rd round pick?

Josh McD always preaches that he will do what will make this team better. If he truly believes this, then we have to go off of this first.

If Denver wanted him gone, they would not have offered him a contract extension last season. If Denver wanted him gone, he would have been traded for whatever they could get, a la Santonio Holmes.

Teams are testing the Broncos young FO. We made some errors last season, and some unwise trades, 2010 1st for a 2009 2nd. No one is going to drive a market if they don't have to. Better to do things behind the scenes, rather than drive up the price.

Denver knows what they want. If Denver isn't going to trade him for less the 1st round value, then they won't.

This is a test. We will soon find out if Denver passes or fails.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-12-2010, 10:59 AM
I doubt they factor PR into the decision making process much or if they do it's like 99% what is best for the Broncos and 1 % what will the fans think.

Well, of course, but it provides them some cushion and deniability if the Steelers (an incredibly well respected organization) are in the same boat they are.

WolfpackGuy
04-12-2010, 10:59 AM
since when did hoody jr. care about PR? (looks at j-cutler trade)

He was fine with the boos raining down by the middle of the first quarter of the home finale.

Chris
04-12-2010, 11:31 AM
Are we better with Brandon Marshall or a 2nd or 3rd round pick?

Josh McD always preaches that he will do what will make this team better. If he truly believes this, then we have to go off of this first.

If Denver wanted him gone, they would not have offered him a contract extension last season. If Denver wanted him gone, he would have been traded for whatever they could get, a la Santonio Holmes.

Teams are testing the Broncos young FO. We made some errors last season, and some unwise trades, 2010 1st for a 2009 2nd. No one is going to drive a market if they don't have to. Better to do things behind the scenes, rather than drive up the price.

Denver knows what they want. If Denver isn't going to trade him for less the 1st round value, then they won't.

This is a test. We will soon find out if Denver passes or fails.

Great post.

gtown
04-12-2010, 12:42 PM
Is it any wonder that the newspaper industry is nearly non-existant? Why pay writers like Legwold and Woody et al to come up with BS for a deadline piece when you can get any idiot with a keyboard to do it for free.

The truth is the Broncos may or may not trade Marshall. Can't we live in a grey area for another two weeks without having to build "consensus" from four people?

PRBronco
04-12-2010, 12:47 PM
since when did hoody jr. care about PR?

Omg </3 I thought we had something special :(

Oh btw bombshell: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Report-Seahawks-still-interested-in-Brandon-Marshall.html

OBF1
04-12-2010, 12:59 PM
OMG...

I just went outside and the sky has fallen.

orange&blue87
04-12-2010, 01:39 PM
Omg </3 I thought we had something special :(

Oh btw bombshell: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Report-Seahawks-still-interested-in-Brandon-Marshall.html

Would be interesting to see if Seattle moves a pick (6 or 14) for multiple picks, 2 -2nds and a 3rd or something. They could trade one of those 2nds and pick 60 (from SD) and it's 1st round value for Marshall. Plus they get a higher 2nd rd pick and a possible 3rd and Marshall for their 1st.

ZONA
04-12-2010, 02:36 PM
Awesome, we'll trade our best offensive player for less than a first.

That's right on par in the stupid stakes with trading that first for A Smith.

No doubt.

Folks, I'm going to take this all the way back to the last game of the season. Here's why a HC should be the coach and the players (even if they are your veteran leaders) should remain only players. If I'm a HC, and I have veteran players coming to me about another player asking me to bench him for the last game, I'm sorry but I have to question what kind of focus those other players have. Don't worry about anybody else but your GD self. Do your MF job and let me (the coach) worry about getting the other players to do their jobs. McD should have NEVER NEVER NEVER benched BM for the last game. I would like BM to stay but let's face the facts. If BM doesn't get benched that game and at the end of the season we slap a 1st round tender on him, he's probably already traded for a high 1st round pick.

I like what Josh is trying to do here but he F'd up royally when he decided to let PLAYERS tell him how to do his job, which was to suspend BM for the last game. Even if right then he knew he didn't want BM, he should KNOW it's going to create a sense of uncertainy with a player who has already had some issues.

McD - I hope you learned a lesson from this because we the fans really don't want to see such a pathetic mistake made again.

Beantown Bronco
04-12-2010, 02:42 PM
let's face the facts. If BM doesn't get benched that game and at the end of the season we slap a 1st round tender on him, he's probably already traded for a high 1st round pick.

Facts? Hardly.

Tombstone RJ
04-12-2010, 02:42 PM
No doubt.

Folks, I'm going to take this all the way back to the last game of the season. Here's why a HC should be the coach and the players (even if they are your veteran leaders) should remain only players. If I'm a HC, and I have veteran players coming to me about another player asking me to bench him for the last game, I'm sorry but I have to question what kind of focus those other players have. Don't worry about anybody else but your GD self. Do your MF job and let me (the coach) worry about getting the other players to do their jobs. McD should have NEVER NEVER NEVER benched BM for the last game. I would like BM to stay but let's face the facts. If BM doesn't get benched that game and at the end of the season we slap a 1st round tender on him, he's probably already traded for a high 1st round pick.

I like what Josh is trying to do here but he F'd up royally when he decided to let PLAYERS tell him how to do his job, which was to suspend BM for the last game. Even if right then he knew he didn't want BM, he should KNOW it's going to create a sense of uncertainy with a player who has already had some issues.

McD - I hope you learned a lesson from this because we the fans really don't want to see such a pathetic mistake made again.

eh, ok. Whatever.

Flip side: McD does not listen to the vets and the guys he brought in and just plays Marshall. What message does this send to the team leaders that approached McD? I'll tell you what message it sends: "I'm McD and even though I preach all about the 'team' I don't really care about the 'team'!"

Yah, that's good coaching right there....























































NOT.

ZONA
04-12-2010, 02:48 PM
Facts? Hardly.

Yeah. Facts. Coming off a great season and setting an NFL record, if he's not benched that last game, which created the media buzz that McD doesn't want him, I think for sure we would have easily landed a 1st rounder for him. The only reason why nobody has made a deal yet is because most GM's think McD really wants to get rid of BM and will do so for less then a 1st rounder. If BM isn't benched that last game, even if we lose, there's no story. People think McD loves BM after the great season they had together and for sure they would be thinking the Broncos would love to keep him.

DenverBrit
04-12-2010, 02:48 PM
Don't you think it better to alienate one player than your team vets and leaders.

Anyway, we really have no idea what prompted those players to approach the coach and make that request.

It would have to be something serious to get Champ, Dawkins, Graham etc. to ask that BM be benched.....for a game with playoff implications.

McD's blunder was feeling the need to publicly explain.

Tombstone RJ
04-12-2010, 02:51 PM
Marshall has created his own problems. McD has remained consistent in his message and approach to the game and Marshall has remained consistently flakey.

Keep flaking off Marshall and pretty soon you won't be in the NFL...

Beantown Bronco
04-12-2010, 02:51 PM
Yeah. Facts. Coming off a great season and setting an NFL record, if he's not benched that last game, which created the media buzz that McD doesn't want him, I think

Twice now you've stated it's a "fact" only to follow it up the following sentence with "I think". By definition, that's opinion. Not fact.

Unless you can prove this would've been the case with say a time machine, it's opinion.....not fact. This really shouldn't even be debatable.

tsiguy96
04-12-2010, 02:51 PM
Yeah. Facts. Coming off a great season and setting an NFL record, if he's not benched that last game, which created the media buzz that McD doesn't want him, I think for sure we would have easily landed a 1st rounder for him. The only reason why nobody has made a deal yet is because most GM's think McD really wants to get rid of BM and will do so for less then a 1st rounder. If BM isn't benched that last game, even if we lose, there's no story. People think McD loves BM after the great season they had together and for sure they would be thinking the Broncos would love to keep him.
few things...

what the hell are you talking about?

marshall told the coach he cant play because of his injured hamstring, then was late to therapy for it. mcdaniels benched him, but he wasnt playing anyway. marshall doesnt deserve special treatment, if you are late to a meeting, you get punished.

ZONA
04-12-2010, 02:52 PM
eh, ok. Whatever.

Flip side: McD does not listen to the vets and the guys he brought in and just plays Marshall. What message does this send to the team leaders that approached McD? I'll tell you what message it sends: "I'm McD and even though I preach all about the 'team' I don't really care about the 'team'!"

Yah, that's good coaching right there....


NOT.

Dude, get a clue. McD wouldn't play BM, he was hurt. But publicly benching him is another story altogether. All he had to do was let him suit up and just put a lid on it. Yeah, team first, but there's a reason why coaches are smarter then players ususally. Players aren't thinking long term about the future of what benching BM could do come the offseason. They aren't thinking, if we bench BM, people are going to think there's a huge riff and we don't want him and all of a sudden, we can't get a 1st rounder for him. So yeah, there's a reason why coaches and GM's are paid to make team decisions, and players should play.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-12-2010, 02:52 PM
Yeah. Facts. Coming off a great season and setting an NFL record, if he's not benched that last game, which created the media buzz that McD doesn't want him, I think for sure we would have easily landed a 1st rounder for him. The only reason why nobody has made a deal yet is because most GM's think McD really wants to get rid of BM and will do so for less then a 1st rounder. If BM isn't benched that last game, even if we lose, there's no story. People think McD loves BM after the great season they had together and for sure they would be thinking the Broncos would love to keep him.

Yeah, because he had never had an off the field **** up that caused him to be suspended by the NFL before McD was even the head coach, and BM had never said he wanted out of Denver before he was benched before Week 17.

Yep, the only reason someone has forked over a 1st for the guy is because he was benched in Week 17. There was no prior history before it that would cause any GM to hesitate before they deciding to give up a 1st for him.

Killericon
04-12-2010, 02:56 PM
Show them. Keep him. Then if they really want him, I guess it's a first for next year. And as far as I'm concerned, if we were taking players and a pick, Seattle doesn't really have anyone I want. Tampa Bay could hand over Barrett Ruud, the Jets Darrell Revis or David Harris, but I sincerely doubt they would. But I want that caliber of player if it's involved in a trade.

http://media.thenewstribune.com/smedia/2009/12/13/01/Heater.standalone.prod_affiliate.5.JPG

GET IT DONE.

DBroncos4life
04-12-2010, 02:57 PM
Yeah. Facts. Coming off a great season and setting an NFL record, if he's not benched that last game, which created the media buzz that McD doesn't want him, I think for sure we would have easily landed a 1st rounder for him. The only reason why nobody has made a deal yet is because most GM's think McD really wants to get rid of BM and will do so for less then a 1st rounder. If BM isn't benched that last game, even if we lose, there's no story. People think McD loves BM after the great season they had together and for sure they would be thinking the Broncos would love to keep him.

All McD had to do is say that Marshall can't play because of the injury and end it. How things got leaked to the media the way they did is sad. I agree with you 110% the FO dropped the ball yet again by not keeping things in house.

orange&blue87
04-12-2010, 03:03 PM
No doubt.

Folks, I'm going to take this all the way back to the last game of the season. Here's why a HC should be the coach and the players (even if they are your veteran leaders) should remain only players. If I'm a HC, and I have veteran players coming to me about another player asking me to bench him for the last game, I'm sorry but I have to question what kind of focus those other players have. Don't worry about anybody else but your GD self. Do your MF job and let me (the coach) worry about getting the other players to do their jobs. McD should have NEVER NEVER NEVER benched BM for the last game. I would like BM to stay but let's face the facts. If BM doesn't get benched that game and at the end of the season we slap a 1st round tender on him, he's probably already traded for a high 1st round pick.

I like what Josh is trying to do here but he F'd up royally when he decided to let PLAYERS tell him how to do his job, which was to suspend BM for the last game. Even if right then he knew he didn't want BM, he should KNOW it's going to create a sense of uncertainy with a player who has already had some issues.

McD - I hope you learned a lesson from this because we the fans really don't want to see such a pathetic mistake made again.

Just for reference, how much experience do you have inside a professional locker room? It sounds a lot like zero, but I want to confirm.

DarkHorse30
04-12-2010, 03:03 PM
He's drawing the entire premise/conclusion of his article from the statements of only 4 or 5 individuals out of the hundreds of personnel executives employed by the league. Way to go, dumbass.

Agreed; and I would add that MOST writers are dumbasses.

"A handful" of owners probably means less than 5 (unless it's a cartoon hand, that would be 4).

"consensus" would mean 3 out of 5 (or if you're Algore, make up the number and then wisk away on your gulfstream).


Count me in on the group that says Marshall becomes a great player for Denver, especially now that he's getting hitched......that'll take the fight out of anyone.

ZONA
04-12-2010, 03:09 PM
Yeah, because he had never had an off the field **** up that caused him to be suspended by the NFL before McD was even the head coach, and BM had never said he wanted out of Denver before he was benched before Week 17.

Yep, the only reason someone has forked over a 1st for the guy is because he was benched in Week 17. There was no prior history before it that would cause any GM to hesitate before they deciding to give up a 1st for him.



OK - but let's rewind here. I for one think if Josh could turn the hands on the clock back, he would do things differently. Now the there is still time because the draft isn't here yet, that they could still net a 1st rounder for BM, but it's looking slim. I think if BM isn't benched, causing the media circus, GM's look back and say ok, we know BM had some problems in the past, but it looks like he's maturing and he had a great season and he worked well with his coach. There's more of a feel good situation going on then question marks.

And nobody is saying you tell the other team leaders to go stack bricks. But cmon, you think Genious is allowing his vets to come into his office and tell him how to do his job? NOT.

And for the "message" that josh is sending to the other players? It's still the same. Team first, but we are in the business of winning. And you don't do that by doing things that hurt the team. Benching him hurts the team because now you hurt your chances of getting fair value for BM in return, if you intended on trading him. Hey, I like Josh, I've made that very clear. I think this was a rookie HC mistake and I doubt he makes that mistake again. I think he indeed would do it differently.

DBroncos4life
04-12-2010, 03:11 PM
Yeah, because he had never had an off the field **** up that caused him to be suspended by the NFL before McD was even the head coach, and BM had never said he wanted out of Denver before he was benched before Week 17.

Yep, the only reason someone has forked over a 1st for the guy is because he was benched in Week 17. There was no prior history before it that would cause any GM to hesitate before they deciding to give up a 1st for him.

Well the way that we handled it pretty much gave every GM the impression that we will not take Marshall back. Now they can wait it out because everyone knows we don't want him. I also think only putting the first rounder tender on him didn't help things either. We should have at least put the full first and third on him to try and make it look like we don't want to lose him.

Marshall did nothing to help his cause at all during his first three years. I agree with you there. The Broncos FO didn't need to help lowering his value out anymore. I know that you don't believe that the FO helped it's cause much with having everything leaked mid week like it was.

We will see what happens hopefully we get close to what his value is.

ZONA
04-12-2010, 03:11 PM
All McD had to do is say that Marshall can't play because of the injury and end it. How things got leaked to the media the way they did is sad. I agree with you 110% the FO dropped the ball yet again by not keeping things in house.

EAXACTLY - that's all I'm saying. Just say, hey, the dude is injured (and he was injured, to what degree, I don't know and right now I don't care, that's the past). Keep it in house and no problems. All I am saying is I think there would be more interest in BM if this public benching a media uproar didn't happen. Period.

Tombstone RJ
04-12-2010, 03:12 PM
Dude, get a clue. McD wouldn't play BM, he was hurt. But publicly benching him is another story altogether. All he had to do was let him suit up and just put a lid on it. Yeah, team first, but there's a reason why coaches are smarter then players ususally. Players aren't thinking long term about the future of what benching BM could do come the offseason. They aren't thinking, if we bench BM, people are going to think there's a huge riff and we don't want him and all of a sudden, we can't get a 1st rounder for him. So yeah, there's a reason why coaches and GM's are paid to make team decisions, and players should play.

I understand what you are saying and my rebuttle is that last year, the one most important thing McD could do is remain consistent in his message about being "team first." McD set the tone, now he has to prove he's committed to it.

Whatever Marshall did to get his teammates upset is on Marshall. McD could have handled it differently but that could have created more team problems then just the one main problem with is Marshall.

The team leaders lead by example and by being vocal. Anyone who has ever been on a team and in a locker room situation knows this. If the players approached McD with a problem then it was a 'team' problem. They could have just approached Marshall and then the problem might have been taken care of internally, literally. Who knows, perhaps one of the team leaders did approach Marshall and Marshall flaked out on the guy.

Whatever the circumstances, McD benched Marshall and it is just another knock Marshall. Again, he's his own worst enemy.

crush17
04-12-2010, 03:12 PM
lol... you guys are too much sometimes.

ZONA
04-12-2010, 03:13 PM
Just for reference, how much experience do you have inside a professional locker room? It sounds a lot like zero, but I want to confirm.

same as you bub, same as all of us, but that doesn't stop us from having our opinoions and discussing them on a, uh, discussion forum. lol

bowtown
04-12-2010, 03:17 PM
OK - but let's rewind here. I for one think if Josh could turn the hands on the clock back, he would do things differently. Now the there is still time because the draft isn't here yet, that they could still net a 1st rounder for BM, but it's looking slim. I think if BM isn't benched, causing the media circus, GM's look back and say ok, we know BM had some problems in the past, but it looks like he's maturing and he had a great season and he worked well with his coach. There's more of a feel good situation going on then question marks.

And nobody is saying you tell the other team leaders to go stack bricks. But cmon, you think Genious is allowing his vets to come into his office and tell him how to do his job? NOT.

And for the "message" that josh is sending to the other players? It's still the same. Team first, but we are in the business of winning. And you don't do that by doing things that hurt the team. Benching him hurts the team because now you hurt your chances of getting fair value for BM in return, if you intended on trading him. Hey, I like Josh, I've made that very clear. I think this was a rookie HC mistake and I doubt he makes that mistake again. I think he indeed would do it differently.

I think he would do it differently in terms of not leaking so much to the media, but as far as not listening to your veterans when they come to you, it's stupid to say that you don't take that into consideration. A coach who does not have a two way communication with his team and doesn't listen to what their veterans have to say is coach that is going to lose that team as soon as the going gets tough.

You really think that the best coaches out there don't listen to what their vets have to say?

ZONA
04-12-2010, 03:22 PM
I understand what you are saying and my rebuttle is that last year, the one most important thing McD could do is remain consistent in his message about being "team first." McD set the tone, now he has to prove he's committed to it.

Whatever Marshall did to get his teammates upset is on Marshall. McD could have handled it differently but that could have created more team problems then just the one main problem with is Marshall.

The team leaders lead by example and by being vocal. Anyone who has ever been on a team and in a locker room situation knows this. If the players approached McD with a problem then it was a 'team' problem. They could have just approached Marshall and then the problem might have been taken care of internally, literally. Who knows, perhaps one of the team leaders did approach Marshall and Marshall flaked out on the guy.

Whatever the circumstances, McD benched Marshall and it is just another knock Marshall. Again, he's his own worst enemy.

I agree with alot of what you said. And McD could have appeased those vets by simply not playing BM. I don't think any of us know the whole story here but it seems to me that too many people are ruling out the possibility that BM was still injured. He's a young player who still hasn't been paid a big contract and maybe he didn't want to jeapordize his future. Those vets that went to McD have all been paid and at the end of their careers. I'm sure their outlook on the situation was different. McD does have a responsibility to those vets and his team first message but he also has a responsibility to the future of the team, and making sure he can get the best players possible. By getting rid of BM for maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder instead of a 1st rounder doesn't seem like that's the right direction for the future.

But I really believe that McD would have done this differently. When he said after the season that he learned a few things and maybe there was some things he would have done differently, I think this was one of them.

no-pseudo-fan
04-12-2010, 03:23 PM
Agreed; and I would add that MOST writers are dumbasses.

"A handful" of owners probably means less than 5 (unless it's a cartoon hand, that would be 4).

"consensus" would mean 3 out of 5 (or if you're Algore, make up the number and then wisk away on your gulfstream).


Count me in on the group that says Marshall becomes a great player for Denver, especially now that he's getting hitched......that'll take the fight out of anyone.

Marriage is either a soul crusher or a .....ok it is just a soul masher.

orange&blue87
04-12-2010, 03:27 PM
same as you bub, same as all of us, but that doesn't stop us from having our opinoions and discussing them on a, uh, discussion forum. lol

Not quite. From my experience, if there is a rift in a locker room, you can usually handle it internally. Perhaps the rift has occurred all season long and Marshall's actions in week 17 pushed players over the edge. I'd be willing to bet that the captains approached Marshall before going to McDaniels. I've never met a player who hasn't wanted to work things out between themselves.

As much as everyone wants to say "this was a rookie mistake" on McDaniels part, there's an equally good chance that this was a deliberate action that best served the team.

Does Denver want to deal Marshall? For a high pick, sure. If not, they have a good player tendered for a very reasonable amount. If Marshall chooses to be the same person he has been, they can choose to cut him without the penalties of a large contract. He's tendered for '10, and if needed, can be franchised for '11. The lack of interest for Marshall could help Denver's cause if they want to resign him.

If a player says he's taking the week off then he should be deactivated. Why leave a roster spot that could be used by someone?

gyldenlove
04-12-2010, 03:34 PM
Agreed; and I would add that MOST writers are dumbasses.

"A handful" of owners probably means less than 5 (unless it's a cartoon hand, that would be 4).

"consensus" would mean 3 out of 5 (or if you're Algore, make up the number and then wisk away on your gulfstream).


Count me in on the group that says Marshall becomes a great player for Denver, especially now that he's getting hitched......that'll take the fight out of anyone.

So all the franchise records he has already set doesn't mean he is a great player for us?

Honestly though, we would all be rich if we had a nickel for every crappy article written about the Broncos so why people keep flying up in arms over this entirely irrelevant **** is beyond me.

Some people really need to have a beer, smoke a blunt or whatever you do for relaxation (just make sure you can pay your way out of it, if it involves non-consentual sex with a minor). It doesn't look like there is going to be an offer sheet, so lets see if Marshall signs the tender before the draft.

ZONA
04-12-2010, 03:38 PM
Not quite. From my experience, if there is a rift in a locker room, you can usually handle it internally. Perhaps the rift has occurred all season long and Marshall's actions in week 17 pushed players over the edge. I'd be willing to bet that the captains approached Marshall before going to McDaniels. I've never met a player who hasn't wanted to work things out between themselves.

As much as everyone wants to say "this was a rookie mistake" on McDaniels part, there's an equally good chance that this was a deliberate action that best served the team.

Does Denver want to deal Marshall? For a high pick, sure. If not, they have a good player tendered for a very reasonable amount. If Marshall chooses to be the same person he has been, they can choose to cut him without the penalties of a large contract. He's tendered for '10, and if needed, can be franchised for '11. The lack of interest for Marshall could help Denver's cause if they want to resign him.

If a player says he's taking the week off then he should be deactivated. Why leave a roster spot that could be used by someone?

But didn't BM say during the middle of the week that it was possible for him to still feel good enough to play on Sunday, if the treatments were working goo enough? Didn't McD go to him like on Thursday or something and bench him? Don't you think it would have been best just to wait until Sunday to see if he could play, a game time decision type of thing? I don't remember BM every saying he was not going to play for sure until after the coach said he was going to sit him out.


In the end, this whole nightmare could be the best thing that happened. If we don't get a 1st rounder for him, and we won't accept lesser value (I pray), then having him play for us next year could be the best deal for us. I think BM and McD can get along just fine. All BM wants is to be paid for his production. His arguebly the best offensive player we have right now and I don't see us replacing that talent in the draft, not next season anyway.

Well, we will know what's going to happen in the next few weeks anyway. It will be nice to get this thing over and done with. Getting a 1st for him or keeping him. I just pray that we don't settle for some crap deal like a 3rd rounder or something. That would just plain suck balls.

NFLBRONCO
04-12-2010, 03:44 PM
You realize a 1st rounder can mean a high #2 and another pick that equals a low 1st. BM is a goner he isn't staying.

tsiguy96
04-12-2010, 03:44 PM
But didn't BM say during the middle of the week that it was possible for him to still feel good enough to play on Sunday, if the treatments were working goo enough? Didn't McD go to him like on Thursday or something and bench him? Don't you think it would have been best just to wait until Sunday to see if he could play, a game time decision type of thing? I don't remember BM every saying he was not going to play for sure until after the coach said he was going to sit him out.


In the end, this whole nightmare could be the best thing that happened. If we don't get a 1st rounder for him, and we won't accept lesser value (I pray), then having him play for us next year could be the best deal for us. I think BM and McD can get along just fine. All BM wants is to be paid for his production. His arguebly the best offensive player we have right now and I don't see us replacing that talent in the draft, not next season anyway.

Well, we will know what's going to happen in the next few weeks anyway. It will be nice to get this thing over and done with. Getting a 1st for him or keeping him. I just pray that we don't settle for some crap deal like a 3rd rounder or something. That would just plain suck balls.

its funny you think him being benched for week 17 for not listening to his coaches means the difference between us getting a 1st or 2nd, forget his entire rap sheet and history.

crush17
04-12-2010, 03:48 PM
its funny you think him being benched for week 17 for not listening to his coaches means the difference between us getting a 1st or 2nd, forget his entire rap sheet and history.

seriously.

misturanderson
04-12-2010, 03:49 PM
But didn't BM say during the middle of the week that it was possible for him to still feel good enough to play on Sunday, if the treatments were working goo enough? Didn't McD go to him like on Thursday or something and bench him? Don't you think it would have been best just to wait until Sunday to see if he could play, a game time decision type of thing? I don't remember BM every saying he was not going to play for sure until after the coach said he was going to sit him out.


In the end, this whole nightmare could be the best thing that happened. If we don't get a 1st rounder for him, and we won't accept lesser value (I pray), then having him play for us next year could be the best deal for us. I think BM and McD can get along just fine. All BM wants is to be paid for his production. His arguebly the best offensive player we have right now and I don't see us replacing that talent in the draft, not next season anyway.

Well, we will know what's going to happen in the next few weeks anyway. It will be nice to get this thing over and done with. Getting a 1st for him or keeping him. I just pray that we don't settle for some crap deal like a 3rd rounder or something. That would just plain suck balls.

The thing that set McD off and forced his hand in benching Marshall was his little "I gots a boo boo" act followed by him not showing up on time for his rehab sessions.

It wasn't just that he was saying that he was hurt while the MRI showed no injury. It was that he was saying that he was too hurt to practice and not putting the work in to get himself healthy. I would have made the inferrence that he was faking an injury to get out of practice given the circumstances, and I'm guessing that the coaching and training staffs made that connection as well.

orange&blue87
04-12-2010, 03:52 PM
But didn't BM say during the middle of the week that it was possible for him to still feel good enough to play on Sunday, if the treatments were working goo enough? Didn't McD go to him like on Thursday or something and bench him? Don't you think it would have been best just to wait until Sunday to see if he could play, a game time decision type of thing? I don't remember BM every saying he was not going to play for sure until after the coach said he was going to sit him out.


In the end, this whole nightmare could be the best thing that happened. If we don't get a 1st rounder for him, and we won't accept lesser value (I pray), then having him play for us next year could be the best deal for us. I think BM and McD can get along just fine. All BM wants is to be paid for his production. His arguebly the best offensive player we have right now and I don't see us replacing that talent in the draft, not next season anyway.

Well, we will know what's going to happen in the next few weeks anyway. It will be nice to get this thing over and done with. Getting a 1st for him or keeping him. I just pray that we don't settle for some crap deal like a 3rd rounder or something. That would just plain suck balls.

I don't understand why so many Bronco fans have overvalued Marshall. If Denver gets a 1st and drafts a "Jarvis Moss" then fans will say the whole thing was awful. If Denver gets a 2/3 and the player is a star, then the deal will be just average. If the player is a HOFer, the trade will be "acceptable."

A player of like value was just dealt for a 5th and a player coming off a terrible injury. McNabb was dealt for a 2nd and a future pick that barely makes the deal "1st round value." Yet everyone feels that it should be a 1st round or bust for a guy that has just as much chance to make a great play as he does of being kicked out of the league.

ZONA
04-12-2010, 04:00 PM
I don't understand why so many Bronco fans have overvalued Marshall. If Denver gets a 1st and drafts a "Jarvis Moss" then fans will say the whole thing was awful. If Denver gets a 2/3 and the player is a star, then the deal will be just average. If the player is a HOFer, the trade will be "acceptable."



Well any player you draft is taking a risk. There are no guarantees the player will be great. But the odds are that players taken in the 1st round generally turn out to be better players then taken in the other rounds. I mean, that's why the Broncos tendered him with a 1st and not a 4th. It's the odds.


And Tsiguy96, you don't read well do you? I never said that other GM's should forget his past. I simply said, if the end of the season didn't play out like it did, there could be a few GM's who would have felt better about him and might have been more willing to take the risk. Read dude.

Beantown Bronco
04-12-2010, 04:51 PM
A player of like value was just dealt for a 5th and a player coming off a terrible injury.

Huh?

DarkHorse30
04-12-2010, 04:52 PM
[QUOTE=gyldenlove;2801828]So all the franchise records he has already set doesn't mean he is a great player for us?
QUOTE]

He's got franchise records, but so does Brian Griese. I want Marshall around making everybody else better, and helping Denver WIN

baja
04-12-2010, 10:09 PM
Marshall was a 4th round pick anything we get above that is a win for us plus we got 4 good years from him.

BroncoBuff
04-12-2010, 10:13 PM
He's got franchise records, but so does Brian Griese. I want Marshall around making everybody else better, and helping Denver WIN

Cutler has franchise records, too ... highest career completion %

bigbucks24
04-13-2010, 12:06 AM
Agreed; and I would add that MOST writers are dumbasses.

"A handful" of owners probably means less than 5 (unless it's a cartoon hand, that would be 4).

"consensus" would mean 3 out of 5 (or if you're Algore, make up the number and then wisk away on your gulfstream).


Count me in on the group that says Marshall becomes a great player for Denver, especially now that he's getting hitched......that'll take the fight out of anyone.

Really makes you settle down. Ask Tiger......or Tiki.

watermock
04-13-2010, 12:13 AM
Marshall was a 4th round pick anything we get above that is a win for us plus we got 4 good years from him.

How amusing.

baja
04-13-2010, 12:18 AM
How amusing.

what do you think he is worth.

see what NYJ just paid for the SB MVP and Pitts #1 receiver?

A fifth and I don't mean whiskey

Bronco Yoda
04-13-2010, 12:29 AM
[QUOTE=Mediator12;2801545]McDaniels is far from a genius and its pretty easy to base your argument on that fact. Shanahan was nowhere near a genius on the personnel level either. The man could put together an offensive gameplan with the best of them though, that was where he was a borderline genius.[QUOTE]

I always laugh at genius moniker thrown at these coaches. They're fricken coaches.... far, far, far.... from genius in any stretch of the imagination.

Bronco CB40
04-13-2010, 12:40 AM
I always laugh at genius moniker thrown at these coaches. They're fricken coaches.... far, far, far.... from genius in any stretch of the imagination.

That's what the late George Young, the former New York Giants GM, used to say about the genius cliche that is loosely used by the media.

What would a genius be doing working in football? He hoped they would be doing something more meaningful for society.

ZONA
04-13-2010, 12:41 AM
what do you think he is worth.

see what NYJ just paid for the SB MVP and Pitts #1 receiver?

A fifth and I don't mean whiskey

Cmon now, you're not actually trying to say Holmes is even close to the same talent that Marshall is are you? Marshall is a 6'5 225 pound secondary nightmare and a true #1 WR, and possibly a top 5 WR in this league. Holmes was not the Steelers #1 WR, that was and has been Ward for several years. Holmes has been a good WR but he isn't close to the same level as Marshall. And I think nearly everybody is shocked the Steelers let him get away for a 5th round pick. That was insane. There must have been some real problems over there with him for them to do that. He was at least worth a 2nd round pick, a 3rd at worst.

baja
04-13-2010, 12:45 AM
That's what the late George Young, the former New York Giants GM, used to say about the genius cliche that is loosely used by the media.

What would a genius be doing working in football? He hoped they would be doing something more meaningful for society.


not according to this;

en·ius   [jeen-yuhs] Show IPA
–noun,pluralgen·ius·es for 2, 3, 8, gen·i·i  [jee-nee-ahy] Show IPA for 6, 7, 9.
1.
an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work in science, art, music, etc.: the genius of Mozart.
2.
a person having such capacity.
3.
a person having an extraordinarily high intelligence rating on a psychological test, as an IQ above 140.
4.
natural ability or capacity; strong inclination: a special genius for leadership.
5.
distinctive character or spirit, as of a nation, period, or language.
6.
the guardian spirit of a place, institution, etc.
7.
either of two mutually opposed spirits, one good and the other evil, supposed to attend a person throughout life.
8.
a person who strongly influences for good or ill the character, conduct, or destiny of a person, place, or thing: Rasputin, the evil genius of Russian politics.

Hell I'm a genius according to #3.

strafen
04-13-2010, 01:06 AM
Cmon now, you're not actually trying to say Holmes is even close to the same talent that Marshall is are you? Marshall is a 6'5 225 pound secondary nightmare and a true #1 WR, and possibly a top 5 WR in this league. Holmes was not the Steelers #1 WR, that was and has been Ward for several years. Holmes has been a good WR but he isn't close to the same level as Marshall. And I think nearly everybody is shocked the Steelers let him get away for a 5th round pick. That was insane. There must have been some real problems over there with him for them to do that. He was at least worth a 2nd round pick, a 3rd at worst.I think the McDaniels supporters are trying to lessen the blow of what's coming.
The Broncos may end up giving Marshall away for some ridiculous draft pick(s) and the Mcdaniels cult is trying to prepare us for what's coming.
Bank it!

cutthemdown
04-13-2010, 03:37 AM
What do you mean drag? We aren't preparing you for anything but the reality that Marshall not as valuable as you all think he is. What would you like Mcdaniels to do in order to make Marshall go for a 1st round pick? You don't think he wants that?

Marshall was the one who openly dogged it last yr letting the whole NFL know his days in Denver were numbered. Marshall was the one that got himself on strike away from a suspension, a long one. Marshall turned himself into a risk.

Now I understand you would have liked to see mcdaniels give him a huge deal, which would have precluded all this, but it was Marshall who had already made himself less then sexy with his attitude, problems off the field, and general baby like behavior. That tape last yr of him intentionally dropping balls in practice was pure poison for his reputation.

That and the only other thing would be he's not good running fly patterns, his more a put his back to defender, then dominate the guy. He plays a lot like Shannon Sharpe to tell you the truth. Which is dominant to say the least.

But IMO it's nothing you should need to be prepared for. Those of us who really looked at it objectively knew we wouldnt get a really high pick for him.

Hopefully towards end of first round Broncos put him up for sale and some team like that know one expects, like skins etc jump in somehow. Maybe offer a first round next yr, or a 2nd rounder next yr and a player this yr etc etc. Who knows.

ZONA
04-13-2010, 04:10 AM
What do you mean drag? We aren't preparing you for anything but the reality that Marshall not as valuable as you all think he is. What would you like Mcdaniels to do in order to make Marshall go for a 1st round pick? You don't think he wants that?

Marshall was the one who openly dogged it last yr letting the whole NFL know his days in Denver were numbered. Marshall was the one that got himself on strike away from a suspension, a long one. Marshall turned himself into a risk.

Now I understand you would have liked to see mcdaniels give him a huge deal, which would have precluded all this, but it was Marshall who had already made himself less then sexy with his attitude, problems off the field, and general baby like behavior. That tape last yr of him intentionally dropping balls in practice was pure poison for his reputation.

That and the only other thing would be he's not good running fly patterns, his more a put his back to defender, then dominate the guy. He plays a lot like Shannon Sharpe to tell you the truth. Which is dominant to say the least.

But IMO it's nothing you should need to be prepared for. Those of us who really looked at it objectively knew we wouldnt get a really high pick for him.

Hopefully towards end of first round Broncos put him up for sale and some team like that know one expects, like skins etc jump in somehow. Maybe offer a first round next yr, or a 2nd rounder next yr and a player this yr etc etc. Who knows.

I'd rather keep him but I would not be upset if we got somebody 2011 1st round pick. Sucks to lose that value this year but before you know it, a year is over and done with and then you have your extra 1st rounder come draft day and you can really do some different things with that. Take 2 1st round picks, move up, deal 1 of them for 2 second rounders, etc...

chrisp
04-13-2010, 04:28 AM
People are forgetting Brandon's side in all this. He knows his antics last offseason cost him, so he's determined to prove that he's the model citizen and not a disruptive influence so that he can command a better salary or just more interest from other teams in general.

This means that IF the Broncos are determined to keep and play him then he is likely to try and fall in line - at least publicly - and try to show he can be a good boy.

Now I don't say that this makes for an harmonious year, so i can't see him lasting here long-term, but I can still see him playing for us next year. Its not the perfect situation, but its not an untenable one either. Also, if the trade doesn't happen and brandon stays he really can't complain that they didn't give him an opportunity to shop himself. They did, but no-one met the asking price....

On the other hand, it could be that the broncos are planning to definitely trade him regardless and WILL accept a lower offer later on. If so, I can't see that they are losing anything by playing hardball at this stage. The perception that Brandon is leaving was created a long time ago. By playing hardball they are only increasing the possibility - however remote - than one of the potential suitors will crack and think that they will keep him after all. Its the classic mexican standoff, and if the broncos take an offer now - as this article and others like it seem to be implying they should - then they cracked first. If they wait untill the final moment then at least they tried.

Personally I would rather have brandon for another year than see him go for a mid-to-late round pick, but I don't know what the behind-the-scenes dynamics are. He definitely is disruptive to the locker-room, but we don't know how much. Enough to outweight his contribution on the field? Not sure about that one.

My gut feel is that brandon's disruptiveness may be enough to stop a playoff team from becoming a super-bowl team, but won't be enough to stop an 8-8 team becoming a playoff team. That would mean at this point we're better off keeping him. I also have a gut feel that the Broncos feel the same way, but I could be wrong....

cutthemdown
04-13-2010, 05:15 AM
Really if brandon was smart he would do one more in denver and wait to hit UFA. He's stupid to demand trade and sign deal right now when really he would get more after a great yr and a new labor deal.

These kids nowdays have no patience and have no idea what the word timing, making your move, knowing when to strike are.

Marshall really either just doesn't listen to agent, or has a crappy one.

I'm guessing his dad not around. Just a guess. I don't know his history but things like this seem to happen to the players who lack maturity and a good mentor or father figure.

I don't even knot the biz of football and IMO if Brandon would even listen to my advice and get it done he would be richer then he will end up. I think maybe Marshall just a tad dumb.

cutthemdown
04-13-2010, 05:16 AM
Of course teams aren't bidding for him, with a the RFA thing about 15-20 teams just aren't interested.

strafen
04-13-2010, 07:10 AM
Really if brandon was smart he would do one more in denver and wait to hit UFA. He's stupid to demand trade and sign deal right now when really he would get more after a great yr and a new labor deal.

These kids nowdays have no patience and have no idea what the word timing, making your move, knowing when to strike are.

Marshall really either just doesn't listen to agent, or has a crappy one.

I'm guessing his dad not around. Just a guess. I don't know his history but things like this seem to happen to the players who lack maturity and a good mentor or father figure.

I don't even knot the biz of football and IMO if Brandon would even listen to my advice and get it done he would be richer then he will end up. I think maybe Marshall just a tad dumb.Didn't Marshall just play out the last year of his contract, though?
I thought 2009 was his last year, and hence the reason why Bowlen wanted him to play out his contract and then get paid.
I'm all against trading Marshall. I don't even want to speculate what McD would do with those extra picks for him and or what would he be getting.
Marshall's talent is unique. Sure he's got issues and I'll be the first to tell you that you never know with him what's he going to do next.
Now, there are some indications pointing out that Marshall is trying to do the right thing; it's all about the money and he knows what he needs to do to get it now, and keep getting it in the future...

Beantown Bronco
04-13-2010, 07:22 AM
Really if brandon was smart he would do one more in denver and wait to hit UFA. He's stupid to demand trade and sign deal right now when really he would get more after a great yr and a new labor deal.

This is not even close to being a given. You are assuming that both potential roadblocks that are currently in place are removed with any new labor deal. Currently, you need 6 years of service to become an UFA. And currently, there are 3 tags in place to prevent him from becoming an UFA. What certainty do you (or does he) have that BOTH of those mechanisms would be removed in the next labor deal? The players would have to make a ton of concessions elsewhere for the owners to even entertain going along with them on this.

It would be a HUGE gamble by him and right now there is nothing indicating either mechanism will be gone any time soon.

baja
04-13-2010, 09:02 AM
<b>Really if brandon was smart he would do one more in denver and wait to hit UFA.</b> He's stupid to demand trade and sign deal right now when really he would get more after a great yr and a new labor deal.

These kids nowdays have no patience and have no idea what the word timing, making your move, knowing when to strike are.

Marshall really either just doesn't listen to agent, or has a crappy one.

I'm guessing his dad not around. Just a guess. I don't know his history but things like this seem to happen to the players who lack maturity and a good mentor or father figure.

I don't even knot the biz of football and IMO if Brandon would even listen to my advice and get it done he would be richer then he will end up. I think maybe Marshall just a tad dumb.

This has been my thinking all along. It's crazy for Brandon to be a dick it only hurts his chances at a massive contract. Bowlen said he would make Marshall the highest paid receiver in the league. Is that a problem?