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DenverBrit
04-11-2010, 09:28 AM
Klis reading the Mane again?

mike klis
Getting personal in new race
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 04/11/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT



There will be a new three-team division in the NFL this year.

As it is specific to past and present Broncos, we'll call it the Mr. B division.

Here's how the new division will line up in the hearts and souls of those who remain unsure as to whether Broncos owner Pat Bowlen made all the correct moves in the past year or so:

Mr. B

Josh McDaniels and the Broncos

Mike Shanahan and the Redskins

Jay Cutler and the Bears

Never mind that the Broncos play neither the Redskins nor Bears this year. And forget that the Mr. B Division, sans Shanny, combined for a 19-29 record last year.

To those currently living in 60-degree sunshine afternoons at the base of the Rocky Mountains, the Mr. B Division promises to be the NFL's most captivating race in 2010.

In the interest of full disclosure, this new division idea was initially submitted through a comment posted beneath the Broncos online mailbag last week. As I am the co-author of the Broncos mailbag (along with the various letter writers), I am entitled to accept random acts of cleverness.

The Mr. B Division began to form after the 2008 season when Bowlen made the daring decision to fire Shanahan, his head coach of 14 years, and replace him with McDaniels, a man of 32 years.

McDaniels, who will celebrate his 34th birthday April 22 presumably by selecting the Broncos' next superstar with the No. 11 overall pick in the NFL draft, quickly found himself at the center of controversy when he irked Cutler, the talented if mistake-prone quarterback he inherited from Shanahan.

Bowlen stepped in and backed his new coach by ordering Cutler to be traded.

Shanahan then stepped back in by accepting the head coaching position with the Redskins.

And the Mr. B Division was created.

Curiously, soon after Shanahan took the job in Washington, he alienated the Redskins' three biggest stars in Albert Haynesworth, Clinton Portis and Jason Campbell.

What made this curious is Shanahan didn't receive anywhere near the guff McDaniels received in his first season for making similar roster-cleaning maneuvers.

Why? Because McDaniels was 32 when he took the job. In our society, youth is like a car changing lanes it triggers people to fearlessly exhibit rage.

Just as McDaniels did with Cutler, Shanahan put Haynesworth on the trading block. The difference was, Haynesworth was to collect a $21 million bonus on April 1 and $36.9 million over the next three seasons, while Cutler was scheduled to draw only a $1.035 million salary, $6 million over two years, at the time of his trade.

McDaniels didn't care much for incumbent running back Peyton Hillis, bringing in Knowshon Moreno and Correll Buckhalter. Shanahan doesn't care much for Portis, bringing in Larry Johnson and Willie Parker.

McDaniels didn't care much for Cutler, trading him for two first-round draft picks and Kyle Orton.

Shanahan didn't care much for Campbell, keeping him while acquiring Donovan McNabb.

The McNabb trade was considered genius. The Cutler deal was assaulted.

Perception is at the opaque root of the Mr. B Division.

It becomes a real competition week to week in 2010, then year to year, when the results are compared. McDaniels' Broncos vs. Shanahan's Redskins vs. Cutler's Bears.

They all mean business. The Bears signed Julius Peppers. Shanahan acquired McNabb. McDaniels added an entire new defensive line anchored by Jamal Williams.

The truth about the Mr. B Division: First one to the Super Bowl wins.

MangoBuffs
04-11-2010, 09:52 AM
Curiously, soon after Shanahan took the job in Washington, he alienated the Redskins' three biggest stars in Albert Haynesworth, Clinton Portis and Jason Campbell.

What made this curious is Shanahan didn't receive anywhere near the guff McDaniels received in his first season for making similar roster-cleaning maneuvers.

Why? Because McDaniels was 32 when he took the job. In our society, youth is like a car changing lanes it triggers people to fearlessly exhibit rage.

Just as McDaniels did with Cutler, Shanahan put Haynesworth on the trading block. The difference was, Haynesworth was to collect a $21 million bonus on April 1 and $36.9 million over the next three seasons, while Cutler was scheduled to draw only a $1.035 million salary, $6 million over two years, at the time of his trade.

McDaniels didn't care much for incumbent running back Peyton Hillis, bringing in Knowshon Moreno and Correll Buckhalter. Shanahan doesn't care much for Portis, bringing in Larry Johnson and Willie Parker.

McDaniels didn't care much for Cutler, trading him for two first-round draft picks and Kyle Orton.

Shanahan didn't care much for Campbell, keeping him while acquiring Donovan McNabb.

The McNabb trade was considered genius. The Cutler deal was assaulted.


This is such a reach it's not even funny. This has zero to do with age, and has EVERYTHING to do with the players involved and the situations:
1) Haynesworth - Signs a massive contracts and produces zilch and gets hurt during the year. You can see why fans are frustrated.
2) Portis - Not producing, getting older, etc. And besides that, Shanny knows RBs.
3) Campbell - Heading towards bust status. I think they screwed up his development by changing coaches, but we can't turn the clock back now. Winning begins and ends with the QB, and Washington has not won a lot.

Now, the Broncos:
1) Cutler - Ton of hype, huge arm, 70 yard passes to Javon Walker, etc. Even if the fan base was split on Cutler (bad INTs, etc) he had enough support as the franchise to cause an outrage. Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.
2) Hillis - The guy was productive and just benched for no reason.
3) Marshall - Similar to the Cutler thing. The guy is a Pro Bowl WR, a Top-5 guy, whatever. There's going to be outrage over him and the coach feuding. The guy proved it on the field every time he played.


Add this:
1) Shanny was the guy in Denver for years. An institution. People are going to hate change.
2) Washington had no direction at all. Coaches came and went. That fanbase will accept whatever Shanny does. I know I would in the same situation.


This "age" argument by the author is ridiculous at best. It has zero to do with that, and everything to do with each franchises' history and the players involved.

Paladin
04-11-2010, 10:01 AM
Well, it did give him at least one column so far, and he will see if he can "stimulate" the fan base to even give a shyte about those other teams during the season. The writers are reaching to find things to write about when it comes to the Broncos. This article is just BS..............

WolfpackGuy
04-11-2010, 10:02 AM
Dumb.

Everybody's just tryin to win a motherf**kin game, nothing more.

BroncoSojia
04-11-2010, 10:03 AM
This is such a reach it's not even funny. This has zero to do with age, and has EVERYTHING to do with the players involved and the situations:
1) Haynesworth - Signs a massive contracts and produces zilch and gets hurt during the year. You can see why fans are frustrated.
2) Portis - Not producing, getting older, etc. And besides that, Shanny knows RBs.
3) Campbell - Heading towards bust status. I think they screwed up his development by changing coaches, but we can't turn the clock back now. Winning begins and ends with the QB, and Washington has not won a lot.

Now, the Broncos:
1) Cutler - Ton of hype, huge arm, 70 yard passes to Javon Walker, etc. Even if the fan base was split on Cutler (bad INTs, etc) he had enough support as the franchise to cause an outrage. Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.
2) Hillis - The guy was productive and just benched for no reason.
3) Marshall - Similar to the Cutler thing. The guy is a Pro Bowl WR, a Top-5 guy, whatever. There's going to be outrage over him and the coach feuding. The guy proved it on the field every time he played.


Add this:
1) Shanny was the guy in Denver for years. An institution. People are going to hate change.
2) Washington had no direction at all. Coaches came and went. That fanbase will accept whatever Shanny does. I know I would in the same situation.


This "age" argument by the author is ridiculous at best. It has zero to do with that, and everything to do with each franchises' history and the players involved.

Rep

Caligula
04-11-2010, 10:06 AM
Its absolutely stupid to say that Shanahan is 'copying' anyone.

I do know one thing, McD DOES need to establish and EARN respect before he can purely DEMAND it as if he has an ounce of clout.

Caligula
04-11-2010, 10:08 AM
This is such a reach it's not even funny. This has zero to do with age, and has EVERYTHING to do with the players involved and the situations:
1) Haynesworth - Signs a massive contracts and produces zilch and gets hurt during the year. You can see why fans are frustrated.
2) Portis - Not producing, getting older, etc. And besides that, Shanny knows RBs.
3) Campbell - Heading towards bust status. I think they screwed up his development by changing coaches, but we can't turn the clock back now. Winning begins and ends with the QB, and Washington has not won a lot.

Now, the Broncos:
1) Cutler - Ton of hype, huge arm, 70 yard passes to Javon Walker, etc. Even if the fan base was split on Cutler (bad INTs, etc) he had enough support as the franchise to cause an outrage. Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.
2) Hillis - The guy was productive and just benched for no reason.
3) Marshall - Similar to the Cutler thing. The guy is a Pro Bowl WR, a Top-5 guy, whatever. There's going to be outrage over him and the coach feuding. The guy proved it on the field every time he played.


Add this:
1) Shanny was the guy in Denver for years. An institution. People are going to hate change.
2) Washington had no direction at all. Coaches came and went. That fanbase will accept whatever Shanny does. I know I would in the same situation.


This "age" argument by the author is ridiculous at best. It has zero to do with that, and everything to do with each franchises' history and the players involved.

Excellent post and dead on

HAT
04-11-2010, 10:10 AM
Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.


They pretty much are actually.

Caligula
04-11-2010, 10:14 AM
They pretty much are actually.

Not at all, actually.........

Archer81
04-11-2010, 10:25 AM
This is such a reach it's not even funny. This has zero to do with age, and has EVERYTHING to do with the players involved and the situations:
1) Haynesworth - Signs a massive contracts and produces zilch and gets hurt during the year. You can see why fans are frustrated.
2) Portis - Not producing, getting older, etc. And besides that, Shanny knows RBs.
3) Campbell - Heading towards bust status. I think they screwed up his development by changing coaches, but we can't turn the clock back now. Winning begins and ends with the QB, and Washington has not won a lot.

Now, the Broncos:
1) Cutler - Ton of hype, huge arm, 70 yard passes to Javon Walker, etc. Even if the fan base was split on Cutler (bad INTs, etc) he had enough support as the franchise to cause an outrage. Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.
2) Hillis - The guy was productive and just benched for no reason.
3) Marshall - Similar to the Cutler thing. The guy is a Pro Bowl WR, a Top-5 guy, whatever. There's going to be outrage over him and the coach feuding. The guy proved it on the field every time he played.


Add this:
1) Shanny was the guy in Denver for years. An institution. People are going to hate change.
2) Washington had no direction at all. Coaches came and went. That fanbase will accept whatever Shanny does. I know I would in the same situation.


This "age" argument by the author is ridiculous at best. It has zero to do with that, and everything to do with each franchises' history and the players involved.


You argue age had little to do with it, but turn around and create holes in your theory.

Shanahan does know RB's. His Bronco teams regularly put up at least 1800 rushing yards a season for 13 years. He has been coaching longer than McDaniels has been alive. Shanahan has a kid over 30...who also coaches. There is less outrage over Mike upsetting DC cornerstones like Portis and Haynesworth simply because he has been a HC before, he's a bit older and has been around the block a few times.

If McDaniels was in his 40s and had been a HC somewhere else before arriving in Denver, I seriously doubt the same uproar would have occured over Cutler or Marshall or the inexplicable blowups over Hillis and Scheffler. Especially if he had the same track record as Mike Shanahan. (championship game appearances). It also probably did not help that Bronco fans became spoiled. We never heard about "rebuilding" under Shanahan. It was always reloading or retooling.

The Broncos fanbase reactions to trading an overhyped QB says more about how we feel about Cutler than how the Broncos felt about Cutler. The guy had his dad turn in his playbook for Christsake. If that does not yell spineless, chinless, gutless wonder I dont know what does. Cutler was a probowler by default. His lapses in games nearly always led to points or momentum shifts for the other team. If you recall, Plummer and Griese were probowlers as well. No one cried when they got canned and replaced.

Hillis was not benched. He could not beat out a converted ILB or Lamont Jordan for playing time.

Marshall produces on the field...if/when he has his head right. When it is right, he is a dominant player, and arguably the best WR in the game. How often is his head right? That problem existed before McDaniels became coach, or Marshall became a pro player. A talented headcase. But its suddenly McDaniels' fault because Marshall is acting up?


:Broncos:

DenverBrit
04-11-2010, 10:44 AM
Its absolutely stupid to say that Shanahan is 'copying' anyone.

I do know one thing, McD DOES need to establish and EARN respect before he can purely DEMAND it as if he has an ounce of clout.


Not at all.

DenverBrit
04-11-2010, 10:52 AM
They pretty much are actually.

Two QBs that the new head coaches didn't trust.

Uncanny how similar they are.

baja
04-11-2010, 10:59 AM
Two QBs that the new head coaches didn't trust.

Uncanny how similar they are.

Cleaning out the locker room of bad apples clearly indicates Shanny is copying Josh. Ask yourself when did Shanny ever worry about team chemistry (Dale Carter / I Hop) We see example after example the Shanny is following Josh's lead and I'm not kidding!

DenverBrit
04-11-2010, 11:05 AM
Cleaning out the locker room of bad apples clearly indicates Shanny is copying Josh. Ask yourself when did Shanny ever worry about team chemistry (Dale Carter / I Hop) We see example after example the Shanny is following Josh's lead and I'm not kidding!

The 'Team First' concept was brought in by McD and now Shanny is doing the same in DC. Shanny knows a good approach to team building when he see's one.

He didn't waste his year away from the game.

baja
04-11-2010, 11:10 AM
The 'Team First' concept was brought in by McD and now Shanny is doing the same in DC. Shanny knows a good approach to team building when he see's one.

He didn't waste his year away from the game.

I think it demonstrates Shanny's greatness that he is willing to swallow his pride and adopt winning fresh new ideas from a 32 year old first year coach. Shanny has come a long ways.

Popps
04-11-2010, 11:15 AM
This is such a reach it's not even funny. .


New Guy...

[ ] really gets it
[x] should read more before posting

atomicbloke
04-11-2010, 12:18 PM
Once McD has won multiple superbowls, and established a legacy of a winning record for more than a decade, people might give him a bigger leash and not question every seemingly moronic move from him.

Just a thought.

Popps
04-11-2010, 12:24 PM
Once McD has won multiple superbowls, and established a legacy of a winning record for more than a decade, people might give him a bigger leash and not question every seemingly moronic move from him.

Just a thought.

http://sidesalad.net/archives/DebbieDownerRachaelDratch.jpg

baja
04-11-2010, 12:28 PM
Once McD has won multiple superbowls, and established a legacy of a winning record for more than a decade, people might give him a bigger leash and not question every seemingly moronic move from him.

Just a thought.

What seemingly moronic move would you be talking about

gyldenlove
04-11-2010, 12:32 PM
You argue age had little to do with it, but turn around and create holes in your theory.

Shanahan does know RB's. His Bronco teams regularly put up at least 1800 rushing yards a season for 13 years. He has been coaching longer than McDaniels has been alive. Shanahan has a kid over 30...who also coaches. There is less outrage over Mike upsetting DC cornerstones like Portis and Haynesworth simply because he has been a HC before, he's a bit older and has been around the block a few times.

If McDaniels was in his 40s and had been a HC somewhere else before arriving in Denver, I seriously doubt the same uproar would have occured over Cutler or Marshall or the inexplicable blowups over Hillis and Scheffler. Especially if he had the same track record as Mike Shanahan. (championship game appearances). It also probably did not help that Bronco fans became spoiled. We never heard about "rebuilding" under Shanahan. It was always reloading or retooling.

The Broncos fanbase reactions to trading an overhyped QB says more about how we feel about Cutler than how the Broncos felt about Cutler. The guy had his dad turn in his playbook for Christsake. If that does not yell spineless, chinless, gutless wonder I dont know what does. Cutler was a probowler by default. His lapses in games nearly always led to points or momentum shifts for the other team. If you recall, Plummer and Griese were probowlers as well. No one cried when they got canned and replaced.

Hillis was not benched. He could not beat out a converted ILB or Lamont Jordan for playing time.

Marshall produces on the field...if/when he has his head right. When it is right, he is a dominant player, and arguably the best WR in the game. How often is his head right? That problem existed before McDaniels became coach, or Marshall became a pro player. A talented headcase. But its suddenly McDaniels' fault because Marshall is acting up?


:Broncos:

1. Shanahan can't be copying Mcdaniels on Portis since that goes back to before Mcdaniels was anymore more than a quality assurance guy.

2. There is probably less outrage over Haynesworth because a: he is trending down faster than the Hindenburg and b: he didn't set any franchise records in the last 12 months.

3. Apparently it has been on right for the last 3 seasons by your metric, since he has consistently placed in the top 10 in the league over those years.

4. I agree with you that Shanahan has earned the right to clean house at least in the public mind, a championship pedigree as a head coach will do that.

Popps
04-11-2010, 12:41 PM
4. I agree with you that Shanahan has earned the right to clean house at least in the public mind, a championship pedigree as a head coach will do that.

Mike Shanahan cleaned house when he arrived in Denver in 1994, with no "championship pedigree."

He turned over something like 40% of the roster the 1st year, and it was up to like 70% by the 2nd year.

So, it appears that great coaches will do what they do... regardless of the "public mind."

It doesn't appear if Shanahan or McDaniels was asking anyone's permission to turn over the rosters of their new teams as young coaches.

BroncoInferno
04-11-2010, 12:52 PM
Not at all, actually.........

You're right...Campbell been much steadier in his play so far in their careers, so not fair to compare him to Cutler.

Meck77
04-11-2010, 12:52 PM
Yeah...It's unheard of for a coach to **** can a bunch of overpaid underachievers when he steps in.

HAT
04-11-2010, 01:42 PM
You're right...Campbell been much steadier in his play so far in their careers, so not fair to compare him to Cutler.

:thumbs:

elsid13
04-11-2010, 01:48 PM
Shanahan got the guy he wanted, and had no leaks. McDaniels failed to get this guy - Casse-l and caused a locker room problem

OBF1
04-11-2010, 01:51 PM
This is such a reach it's not even funny. This has zero to do with age, and has EVERYTHING to do with the players involved and the situations:
1) Haynesworth - Signs a massive contracts and produces zilch and gets hurt during the year. You can see why fans are frustrated.
2) Portis - Not producing, getting older, etc. And besides that, Shanny knows RBs.
3) Campbell - Heading towards bust status. I think they screwed up his development by changing coaches, but we can't turn the clock back now. Winning begins and ends with the QB, and Washington has not won a lot.

Now, the Broncos:
1) Cutler - Ton of hype, huge arm, 70 yard passes to Javon Walker, etc. Even if the fan base was split on Cutler (bad INTs, etc) he had enough support as the franchise to cause an outrage. Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.
2) Hillis - The guy was productive and just benched for no reason.
3) Marshall - Similar to the Cutler thing. The guy is a Pro Bowl WR, a Top-5 guy, whatever. There's going to be outrage over him and the coach feuding. The guy proved it on the field every time he played.

.

LOLLOLLOL

thanks for the laugh

Florida_Bronco
04-11-2010, 02:30 PM
You're right...Campbell been much steadier in his play so far in their careers, so not fair to compare him to Cutler.

And one of them actually lead his team to a winning record. The other is named Jay Cutler.

Requiem
04-11-2010, 02:35 PM
http://fast1.onesite.com/fans.wwe.com/user/hbkaustin2002@yahoo.com/gif/f9bd41267edb413c0a2f150f6c7b6e33.gif?v=177100

Killericon
04-11-2010, 02:45 PM
Or maybe both Shanny and McDaniels are copying the same guy:

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/bill_belichick.jpg

SportinOne
04-11-2010, 08:01 PM
Or maybe both Shanny and McDaniels are copying the same guy:

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/bill_belichick.jpg

More accurate than Baja, still not right...

The article IS an incredible reach. Shanahan is doing exactly what he did in Denver. He is playing to win. He inherited a QB that was solid but not spectacular at his best moments and went out and got a QB that could win a super bowl. That's what Shanahan does, for better or for worse. He tries to win Super Bowls.

Washington is really the perfect place for him. He is free to sign all of the high priced players that he wants and if they don't pan out he can cut 'em and sign more. You don't need much of a long-term plan if you're the Redskin's coach.

BroncoBuff
04-11-2010, 08:20 PM
The McNabb trade was considered genius. The Cutler deal was assaulted.


Great article, I'm looking forward to following the Mr. B division.

But that quote is just plain dumb. On one hand, Shanahan targeted a new starter and went out and got McNabb, a perennial Pro-Bowler and playoffs producer who was worlds better than all the Redskins' QBs put together.

On the other hand, Josh wanted to keep Jay (unless he was lying), didn't want to trade him until Bowlen ordered it (remember?), and - although this is questionable now - Cutler was then considered a much better quarterback than Orton. So, BIG differences there.

And it's still just plain nuts to think Mike is "copying" Josh ... examine the logic. Had Josh and Jay gotten along well, them Mike would've kept the 4-3 and buddied up with Haynesworth? Preposterous. Even less logical is the idea that a borderline megalomaniac personality like Mike would ever even dream of "copying" another coach, much less a kid who dismantled/is dismantling his prized young offense.

Caligula
04-11-2010, 08:32 PM
Great article, I'm looking forward to following the Mr. B division.

But that quote is just plain dumb. On one hand, Shanahan targeted a new starter and went out and got McNabb, a perennial Pro-Bowler and playoffs producer who was worlds better than all the Redskins' QBs put together.

On the other hand, Josh wanted to keep Jay (unless he was lying), didn't want to trade him until Bowlen ordered it (remember?), and - although this is questionable now - Cutler was then considered a much better quarterback than Orton. So, BIG differences there.

And it's still just plain nuts to think Mike is "copying" Josh ... examine the logic. Had Josh and Jay gotten along well, them Mike would've kept the 4-3 and buddied up with Haynesworth? Preposterous. Even less logical is the idea that a borderline megalomaniac personality like Mike would ever even dream of "copying" another coach, much less a kid who dismantled/is dismantling his prized young offense.

What are you talking about????

McD admitted he was 'late for the dance' when trying to get in on the deal for Cassel. McD was ACTIVELY trying to trade Cutler. He didn't wait for Bowlen to 'order' it. Thats absurd. You are way off on this.

BroncoBuff
04-11-2010, 08:46 PM
This is such a reach it's not even funny. This has zero to do with age, and has EVERYTHING to do with the players involved and the situations:

1) Haynesworth - Signs a massive contracts and produces zilch and gets hurt during the year. You can see why fans are frustrated. Haynesworth has always been a problem child, all fans know this ... plus Mike wants the 3-4, so that's all she wrote for Mr Moneybags. Can't cleat Shanahan on his head you freaking animal.

2) Portis - Not producing, getting older, etc. And besides that, Shanny knows RBs. And Shanny knows Portis.

3) Campbell - Heading towards bust status. I think they screwed up his development by changing coaches, but we can't turn the clock back now. Winning begins and ends with the QB, and Washington has not won a lot. And McNabb is so far beyond Campbell's status, you can't call these situations even close to similar.

Now, the Broncos:
1) Cutler - Ton of hype, huge arm, 70 yard passes to Javon Walker, etc. Even if the fan base was split on Cutler (bad INTs, etc) he had enough support as the franchise to cause an outrage. Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.

2) Hillis - The guy was productive and just benched for no reason. He was very productive, no doubt. And the kicker is, if CBF is right, and Hillis sucked/was average, the how the hell did we get Brady Quinn for him in a trade? QB and FB are positions decidedly unequal in value, just look at the draft and you know that. So either Quinn sucks, or Hillis was pretty good. Or more likely a bit of both.

3) Marshall - Similar to the Cutler thing. The guy is a Pro Bowl WR, a Top-5 guy, whatever. There's going to be outrage over him and the coach feuding. The guy proved it on the field every time he played.

Good post. My additions in red.

The situations have no relationship or rational comparison whatsoever ... every new coach makes personnel and system/approach changes. They're only being (weakly) compared here for obvious reasons.

Florida_Bronco
04-11-2010, 08:52 PM
What are you talking about????

McD admitted he was 'late for the dance' when trying to get in on the deal for Cassel. McD was ACTIVELY trying to trade Cutler. He didn't wait for Bowlen to 'order' it. Thats absurd. You are way off on this.

Every reliable source (including Schefter, next in line to Jesus Christ when it comes to credibility) stated exactly the opposite. Teams contacted McD about a potential 3-way trade, he discussed it with Xanders and then quickly turned it down.

When the Broncos tried to repair the relationship, Cutler cut off contact with everyone including Bowlen, at which point he ordered Josh to trade him. Bowlen himself said this in his letter to the fans and the press conference after the trade.

~Crash~
04-11-2010, 09:03 PM
Clinton Portis and Jason Campbell.OLD and never did anything yep what a star....

Caligula
04-11-2010, 09:05 PM
Every reliable source (including Schefter, next in line to Jesus Christ when it comes to credibility) stated exactly the opposite. Teams contacted McD about a potential 3-way trade, he discussed it with Xanders and then quickly turned it down.

When the Broncos tried to repair the relationship, Cutler cut off contact with everyone including Bowlen, at which point he ordered Josh to trade him. Bowlen himself said this in his letter to the fans and the press conference after the trade.

You don't have teams calling you to trade for your 24 yr old pro=bowl QB that is only in the 3rd yr of his contract, simply out of the blue.

McD said himself that he was 'late for the dance' in attempting to trade for Cassel.

There is also an article by a VERY reliable writer that states he has MULTIBLE sources that Cutler did in FACT have contact with Bowlen.. multible times.

The whole "answering the phone" thing has been really been shown to be bunk, a LONG time ago.

baja
04-11-2010, 09:10 PM
You don't have teams calling you to trade for your 24 yr old pro=bowl QB that is only in the 3rd yr of his contract, simply out of the blue.

McD said himself that he was 'late for the dance' in attempting to trade for Cassel.

There is also an article by a VERY reliable writer that states he has MULTIBLE sources that Cutler did in FACT have contact with Bowlen.. multible times.

<b>The whole "answering the phone" thing has been really been shown to be bunk, a LONG time ago.

You'll have to provide a link to that one.

BroncoBuff
04-11-2010, 09:13 PM
Every reliable source (including Schefter, next in line to Jesus Christ when it comes to credibility) stated exactly the opposite. Teams contacted McD about a potential 3-way trade, he discussed it with Xanders and then quickly turned it down.

When the Broncos tried to repair the relationship, Cutler cut off contact with everyone including Bowlen, at which point he ordered Josh to trade him. Bowlen himself said this in his letter to the fans and the press conference after the trade.

This is correct, my point was this is what they said ON the record, caligula.

My use of their quotes was kinda sarcastic, but I think the truth is closer to what Florida said (with the exception of "discussed it with Xanders." :~ohyah!:)

Soul-Bronco
04-11-2010, 09:16 PM
You don't have teams calling you to trade for your 24 yr old pro=bowl QB that is only in the 3rd yr of his contract, simply out of the blue.

McD said himself that he was 'late for the dance' in attempting to trade for Cassel.

There is also an article by a VERY reliable writer that states he has MULTIBLE sources that Cutler did in FACT have contact with Bowlen.. multible times.

The whole "answering the phone" thing has been really been shown to be bunk, a LONG time ago.

people give jay baby cutler way to much respect which is why he is such a D bag. . . . . . if the coach listened to offers that included starters and multiple picks he was just looking out for the intrest of the team. People act as if cutler was a bronco for 10 plus years and had the right to be considered untouchable. Give me a freakin break, it wasnt long before he threw the denver fans under the bus which are the same fans that still defend him to the death

Archer81
04-11-2010, 09:38 PM
You don't have teams calling you to trade for your 24 yr old pro=bowl QB that is only in the 3rd yr of his contract, simply out of the blue.

McD said himself that he was 'late for the dance' in attempting to trade for Cassel.

There is also an article by a VERY reliable writer that states he has MULTIBLE sources that Cutler did in FACT have contact with Bowlen.. multible times.

The whole "answering the phone" thing has been really been shown to be bunk, a LONG time ago.


You know...except when he didnt...

It's multiple. BTW.

:Broncos:

DenverBrit
04-11-2010, 09:57 PM
You don't have teams calling you to trade for your 24 yr old pro=bowl QB that is only in the 3rd yr of his contract, simply out of the blue.

When did that rule kick in??

McD said himself that he was 'late for the dance' in attempting to trade for Cassel.

He was 'late to the dance'.....meaning the discussions were over and done before McD & Co got involved. If a trade involving Cassel for Cutler was ever seriously on the table, it would have been done. But it wasn't.

There is also an article by a VERY reliable writer that states he has MULTIBLE sources that Cutler did in FACT have contact with Bowlen.. multible times.

Had Cutler returned Bowlen's calls, he or his agent could have easily made his case by providing his cell records. Never happened. Cutler ignored Bowlen.

The whole "answering the phone" thing has been really been shown to be bunk, a LONG time ago.

You got that one right. Cutler ignored Bowlen's calls. End of story!


Search earlier threads, each of your points....except the eccentric first one....have been de-bunked and beaten to death.

Florida_Bronco
04-11-2010, 09:58 PM
You don't have teams calling you to trade for your 24 yr old pro=bowl QB that is only in the 3rd yr of his contract, simply out of the blue. They did. Two of them in fact. Tampa and Detroit.

http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=77653&highlight=schefter

McD said himself that he was 'late for the dance' in attempting to trade for Cassel. That quote doesn't mean they actively tried to trade him. That quote is referring to the fact that when they finally got in touch with Xanders it was late into the evening and they figured it was too late by then to pursue it even if they wanted to.

There is also an article by a VERY reliable writer that states he has MULTIBLE sources that Cutler did in FACT have contact with Bowlen.. multible times. Who?

The whole "answering the phone" thing has been really been shown to be bunk, a LONG time ago. Again, by who?

BroncoBuff
04-11-2010, 09:58 PM
You don't have teams calling you to trade for your 24 yr old pro=bowl QB that is only in the 3rd yr of his contract, simply out of the blue.

FWIW, this is the part that always bothered me.

Archer81
04-11-2010, 09:59 PM
Search earlier threads, each of your points....except the eccentric first one....have been de-bunked and beaten to death.



Guess he didnt get the memo.


:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
04-11-2010, 10:00 PM
They did. Two of them in fact. Tampa and Detroit.

Now now ... those calls weren't "out of the blue" ... those teams called after the furor had erupted.

Other than that, I agree with your post.

DenverBrit
04-11-2010, 10:02 PM
Now now ... those calls weren't "out of the blue" ... those teams called after the furor had erupted.

Other than that, I agree with your post.

Those were the teams that STARTED the furor.

Florida_Bronco
04-11-2010, 10:04 PM
Those were the teams that STARTED the furor.

Agreed. That's exactly what Schefter said.

BroncoBuff
04-11-2010, 10:08 PM
2) Hillis - The guy was productive and just benched for no reason. He was very productive, no doubt. And the kicker is, if CBF is right, and Hillis sucked/was average, the how the hell did we get Brady Quinn for him in a trade? QB and FB are positions decidedly unequal in value, just look at the draft and you know that. So either Quinn sucks, or Hillis was pretty good. Or more likely a bit of both.

The red are my words ... over the past month I keep making that point, but nobody responds. For Cleveland to give up the farm to Dallas to get hometown hero Brady Quinn - they sure did send him off for a pittance a mere three years later.

Or did they? Is Hillis that good, or is Brady that bad? Or a little of both?

Remember, trade value for QB vs. FB ...

Archer81
04-11-2010, 10:13 PM
The red are my words ... over the past month I keep making that point, but nobody responds. For Cleveland to give up the farm to Dallas to get hometown hero Brady Quinn - they sure did send him off for a pittance a mere three years later.

Or did they? Is Hillis that good, or is Brady that bad? Or a little of both?

Remember, trade value for QB vs. FB ...


A back up player for a back up player...its not that complicated. Cleveland did not want to keep Quinn. The Broncos did not want to keep Hillis. Two teams worked it out and shipped their unwanteds out of town. Dont read too much more into it.

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
04-11-2010, 10:19 PM
A back up player for a back up player...its not that complicated. Cleveland did not want to keep Quinn. The Broncos did not want to keep Hillis. Two teams worked it out and shipped their unwanteds out of town. Dont read too much more into it.

:Broncos:

"Don't read too much more into it"? Please ... nothing to see here, move along/ :~ohyah!:

Just as with Marshall or any other trade, teams want value for value. No team just offs a guy for the sake of offing him. So something is not as it seems here. QB value is far, FAR higher than is a mere fullback's value. So either Quinn is not so awesome, or Hillis is pretty good. Or a bit of both.

baja
04-11-2010, 10:21 PM
"Don't read too much more into it"? Please ... nothing to see here, move along/ :~ohyah!:

Just as with Marshall or any other trade, teams want value for value. No team just offs a guy for the sake of offing him. So something is not as it seems here. QB value is far, FAR higher than is a mere fullback's value. So either Quinn is not so awesome, or Hillis is pretty good. Or a bit of both.

How about one team made a poor assessment

DenverBrit
04-11-2010, 10:22 PM
"Don't read too much more into it"? Please ... nothing to see here, move along/ :~ohyah!:

Just as with Marshall or any other trade, teams want value for value. No team just offs a guy for the sake of offing him. So something is not as it seems here. QB value is far, FAR higher than is a mere fullback's value. So either Quinn is not so awesome, or Hillis is pretty good. Or a bit of both.

There were two draft picks involved as well.

Archer81
04-11-2010, 10:23 PM
"Don't read too much more into it"? Please ... nothing to see here, move along/ :~ohyah!:

Just as with Marshall or any other trade, teams want value for value. No team just offs a guy for the sake of offing him. So something is not as it seems here. QB value is far, FAR higher than is a mere fullback's value. So either Quinn is not so awesome, or Hillis is pretty good. Or a bit of both.


Or...the Browns have a completely new front office that does not value the previous regime's choice of players, and would prefer to start over completely...

We sent a pick and Hillis to the Browns. It was not a straight up swap of players. In my view, the Broncos got a potential steal from the Browns for a backup FB who only saw the field in preseason or when someone else got hurt and a late round draft pick.

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
04-11-2010, 10:40 PM
It's amazing how quick you guys swarm in to protect your (conflicting) beliefs that Quinn is good and Hillis sucks :~ohyah!:

Can't be done, not with any real logic ...

Archer81
04-11-2010, 10:45 PM
It's amazing how quick you guys swarm in to protect your (conflicting) beliefs that Quinn is good and Hillis sucks :~ohyah!:

Can't be done, not with any real logic ...


Logically you cannot make Hillis extremely good, because no evidence exists that proves it.

On the flip side of that, I cannot say that Quinn will be good, because there is no body of evidence to support it.

What we know is this: The Broncos gave up more to get Quinn then the Browns gave up to get Hillis. So clearly the Browns needed more then the "maybe good" FB to let go of the "possibly bad" QB.

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
04-11-2010, 10:56 PM
Logically you cannot make Hillis extremely good, because no evidence exists that proves it.

Logically? No evidence? Are you high?

There are question marks about Hillis, but there can be no (real) argument he was consistently very productive for a stretch last year. In just his rookie season he averaged 5 yards a carry and 13 yards a catch, you just can't argue with that. You saying "no evidence exists," well that's just silly. There's a lot of evidence, right there.

I think that's what Cleveland saw when they shipped us Quinn for Peyton and a pick or two.

Archer81
04-11-2010, 11:03 PM
Logically? No evidence? Are you high?

There are question marks about Hillis, but there can be no (real) argument he was consistently very productive for a stretch last year. In just his rookie season he averaged 5 yards a carry and 13 yards a catch, you just can't argue with that. You saying "no evidence exists," well that's just silly. There's a lot of evidence, right there.

I think that's what Cleveland saw when they shipped us Quinn for Peyton and a pick or two.


Hillis only started when 6 other backs went on IR in 2008. Two coaches known for good offense could not get this kid on the field without extinuating circumstances, and even then with reservations. 400 rush yards in two seasons does not make a running back "good". So yes, no evidence exists to suggest Hillis is anything more than a backup fullback. In two seasons in Denver, Hillis played in 26 games. That comes out to 4 touches for 22.8 yards a game. Impact player there...

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
04-11-2010, 11:18 PM
Hillis only started when 6 other backs went on IR in 2008. Two coaches known for good offense could not get this kid on the field without extinuating circumstances, and even then with reservations.

Never argues with any of that .... read closer. All I said was 1) He was undeniably highly productive with his chances, especially for a rookie, and 2) He was obviously more valuable than most of us think, because he and a mid-round pick or two got us a potential starting QB.

I actually agree with what you posted there ... but what I said is still correct, 5 yp carry, 13 yp catch.


Buff out.

Archer81
04-11-2010, 11:19 PM
Never argues with any of that .... read closer. All I said was 1) He was undeniably highly productive with his chances, especially for a rookie, and 2) He was obviously more valuable than most of us think, because he and a mid-round pick or two got us a potential starting QB.

I actually agree with what you posted there ... but what I said is still correct, 5 yp carry, 13 yp catch.


Buff out.


If he was more valuable...he'd still be on the roster.

And its 11 ypc.

:Broncos:

maher_tyler
04-11-2010, 11:50 PM
I liked Hillis but last season, he never seemed to capitalize on the few opportunities he did have. I still have no idea why McD didn't give him a few more chances. With that said, i still think we got the better end of the deal. I don't know how you can really grade QB that has only started 4 NFL games..u can't say he's bad or good..especially after playing in Cleveland and playing for 2 different coaches in the 3 years he was there!

Killericon
04-11-2010, 11:57 PM
There is no "good" or "not good" with guys like Quinn or Hillis.

The Browns organization thinks Quinn isn't good and Hillis is. The Broncos organizations thinks Quinn is good and Hillis isn't. We'll see how it turns out.

BroncoBuff
04-12-2010, 12:02 AM
If he was more valuable...he'd still be on the roster.

But but ... talent evaluators are not infallible, baja just said so on top this page!



And its 11 ypc.

Nope. 12.8 in 2008 ... http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/gamelogs?id=HIL734134&season=2008

Chris ... Anybody ever tell you you're quite bubbly?



Buff out.

Archer81
04-12-2010, 12:07 AM
But but ... talent evaluators are not infallible, baja just said so on top this page!





Nope. 12.8 in 2008 ... http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/gamelogs?id=HIL734134&season=2008

Chris ... Anybody ever tell you you're quite bubbly?



Buff out.


Career 26 18 198 11.0 47 1 9 0 0

Lots of people tell me I am bubbly. Still dont know what it means though.

:Broncos:

broncocalijohn
04-12-2010, 12:20 AM
Yeah...It's unheard of for a coach to **** can a bunch of overpaid underachievers when he steps in.

and many times it is those type of players that caused the coaching turnover to happen. McD has done what many coaches before him have done. The difference is that Shanny was an institution here in Denver and anything of change is going to upset a percentage of fans (including leaving their team and following their old coach). If you want a young coach to be successful, he is going to have to do what many veteran coaches have done and will do in the future and that is clean house and put their personal mark on the franchise. Sure it is a bummer that we have lost the ZBS of our long tradition of making anyone a good to great runningback, but change comes just like Shanny did for the Broncos when he took over.

baja
04-12-2010, 12:25 AM
I rules were getting more and more restrictive on ZB and the system wouldn't survive many more seasons. I am glad too I always thought the system was not classy.

Bronco Yoda
04-12-2010, 12:35 AM
Klis reading the Mane again?

mike klis
Getting personal in new race
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 04/11/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT



There will be a new three-team division in the NFL this year.

As it is specific to past and present Broncos, we'll call it the Mr. B division.

Here's how the new division will line up in the hearts and souls of those who remain unsure as to whether Broncos owner Pat Bowlen made all the correct moves in the past year or so:

Mr. B

Josh McDaniels and the Broncos

Mike Shanahan and the Redskins

Jay Cutler and the Bears

Never mind that the Broncos play neither the Redskins nor Bears this year. And forget that the Mr. B Division, sans Shanny, combined for a 19-29 record last year.

To those currently living in 60-degree sunshine afternoons at the base of the Rocky Mountains, the Mr. B Division promises to be the NFL's most captivating race in 2010.

In the interest of full disclosure, this new division idea was initially submitted through a comment posted beneath the Broncos online mailbag last week. As I am the co-author of the Broncos mailbag (along with the various letter writers), I am entitled to accept random acts of cleverness.

The Mr. B Division began to form after the 2008 season when Bowlen made the daring decision to fire Shanahan, his head coach of 14 years, and replace him with McDaniels, a man of 32 years.

McDaniels, who will celebrate his 34th birthday April 22 presumably by selecting the Broncos' next superstar with the No. 11 overall pick in the NFL draft, quickly found himself at the center of controversy when he irked Cutler, the talented if mistake-prone quarterback he inherited from Shanahan.

Bowlen stepped in and backed his new coach by ordering Cutler to be traded.

Shanahan then stepped back in by accepting the head coaching position with the Redskins.

And the Mr. B Division was created.


The truth about the Mr. B Division: First one to the Super Bowl wins.


As long as we're going down this road, we might as well round off this new 'personal' divisional race with Mike Nolan and the Dolphins.

broncocalijohn
04-12-2010, 12:48 AM
I rules were getting more and more restrictive on ZB and the system wouldn't survive many more seasons. I am glad too I always thought the system was not classy.

Well, that ZB system is better than a ****ty and dignified one. Let other teams talk crap while we were winning.

BroncoBuff
04-12-2010, 01:11 AM
Career 26 18 198 11.0 47 1 9 0 0

Okay, 11.0 career, fine.

But I was talking about his production during "the stretch he started," which was "as a rookie", which he was 12.8 ... http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/gamelogs?id=HIL734134&season=2008




Lots of people tell me I am bubbly. Still dont know what it means though.

I was just taking off on your Facebook post the same time as that one.

colonelbeef
04-12-2010, 01:22 AM
This is such a reach it's not even funny. This has zero to do with age, and has EVERYTHING to do with the players involved and the situations:
1) Haynesworth - Signs a massive contracts and produces zilch and gets hurt during the year. You can see why fans are frustrated.
2) Portis - Not producing, getting older, etc. And besides that, Shanny knows RBs.
3) Campbell - Heading towards bust status. I think they screwed up his development by changing coaches, but we can't turn the clock back now. Winning begins and ends with the QB, and Washington has not won a lot.

Now, the Broncos:
1) Cutler - Ton of hype, huge arm, 70 yard passes to Javon Walker, etc. Even if the fan base was split on Cutler (bad INTs, etc) he had enough support as the franchise to cause an outrage. Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.
2) Hillis - The guy was productive and just benched for no reason.
3) Marshall - Similar to the Cutler thing. The guy is a Pro Bowl WR, a Top-5 guy, whatever. There's going to be outrage over him and the coach feuding. The guy proved it on the field every time he played.


Add this:
1) Shanny was the guy in Denver for years. An institution. People are going to hate change.
2) Washington had no direction at all. Coaches came and went. That fanbase will accept whatever Shanny does. I know I would in the same situation.


This "age" argument by the author is ridiculous at best. It has zero to do with that, and everything to do with each franchises' history and the players involved.

Good post, worth repeating.

uplink
04-12-2010, 03:48 PM
I thought Shanny visited the Pats in the offseason to learn about the 3-4 defense but it is more likely he visited to learn more about McD, probing former coworkers to get info.

nickademus
04-12-2010, 04:56 PM
Buff-
I agree with you it was most likely that clevland saw more in hillis than our FO did but the same can be said for our FO and Quinn. so if quinn busts and hillis pluss two late picks do ok was it a worth while gamble? for me yes since we are talking about a QB and a FB even if clevland uses him as a hb he would never have that roloe here so he was expendable. to me if both work out and quinn becomes a starter then it was a lopsided trade as QB is the harder possition to fill.

Popps
04-12-2010, 06:43 PM
I thought Shanny visited the Pats in the offseason to learn about the 3-4 defense but it is more likely he visited to learn more about McD, probing former coworkers to get info.

Yes.



Yes.

orinjkrush
04-12-2010, 06:52 PM
every coach (teacher) needs a sabbatical every decade. a year off can really reenergize and refocus. too bad milkmen can't do the same.

Jesterhole
04-12-2010, 07:09 PM
What a ****ing waste of time. Mike is headed to the Hall of Fame. McDouche hasn't had a winning season yet. Let's see how things play out...

Popps
04-12-2010, 07:54 PM
If you want a young coach to be successful, he is going to have to do what many veteran coaches have done and will do in the future and that is clean house and put their personal mark on the franchise.

Exactly.

It's amazing that we have to explain this to people.

Shanahan came in as a young guy and turned the whole roster over, basically. McDaniels does the same thing, and he's somehow a tyrant?

I love it. Take out the trash. Get me some more fresh players in here and let's get this thing going again. I don't give a rats ass what Shanahan does in Washington, and Cutler is someone else's s#it stain to deal with, now.

Future, folks... future. Move into it.

watermock
04-12-2010, 08:57 PM
We have the oldest D in the NFL, drafted 6 of 9 on offense.

Won't get #14 back.

Clady regressed, Holtien sucked,Weigman was benched, we never ran right anyway.

RB:

Worse than -08 despite Slowmorenho.

Hillis benched and traded.

TE?

Quinn?

The mioghty Grraham at 10 milliopn.

Scheff, benched at 500k.

Marshall?

NEVER been convicted of a felony. Never.

Dumbass coach?

Fuhrer.

we will see, won't we Popps, 8-8.

Dagmar
04-12-2010, 09:01 PM
We have the oldest D in the NFL, drafted 6 of 9 on offense.

Won't get #14 back.

Clady regressed, Holtien sucked,Weigman was benched, we never ran right anyway.

RB:

Worse than -08 despite Slowmorenho.

Hillis benched and traded.

TE?

Quinn?

The mioghty Grraham at 10 milliopn.

Scheff, benched at 500k.

Marshall?

NEVER been convicted of a felony. Never.

Dumbass coach?

Fuhrer.

we will see, won't we Popps, 8-8.

http://digitaldaybreak.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/bob-goranson-moonshine.jpg

watermock
04-12-2010, 09:16 PM
All true.

Dagmar
04-12-2010, 09:31 PM
We have the oldest D in the NFL,

Show me theFACTS supporting this.

http://www.footballnewsshare.com/88036-pittsburgh-steelers-2010-defense-will-be-one-of-the-oldest/

Last year at the start of September we were tied with the Jets for 13th in average age of roster.

Show me your facts.

Dagmar
04-12-2010, 09:31 PM
September 7, 2009 11:07 AM
Age Rank NFL Team Average Age
1 Redskins 28.02
2 Saints 27.99
3 Cardinals 27.74
3 Patriots 27.74
5 Lions 27.62
6 49ers 27.51
7 Steelers 27.50
8 Vikings 27.48
9 Seahawks 27.41
10 Falcons 27.39
11 Titans 27.29
12 Browns 27.18
13 Jets 27.16
13 Broncos 27.16
15 Bears 27.02
16 Cowboys 26.93
17 Bills 26.93
18 Chargers 26.93
19 Texans 26.89
20 Giants 26.88
21 Ravens 26.83
22 Raiders 26.82
23 Eagles 26.81
24 Rams 26.73
25 Jaguars 26.61
26 Bengals 26.60
27 Dolphins 26.47
28 Bucs 26.46
29 Panthers 26.39
30 Chiefs 26.36
31 Colts 26.34
32 Packers 26.16
Posted by ESPN.com's Mike Sando

Dagmar
04-12-2010, 09:32 PM
Show me you aren't just spouting lies like you did with Kupesdad.

azbroncfan
04-12-2010, 09:37 PM
We have the oldest D in the NFL, drafted 6 of 9 on offense.

Won't get #14 back.

Clady regressed, Holtien sucked,Weigman was benched, we never ran right anyway.

RB:

Worse than -08 despite Slowmorenho.

Hillis benched and traded.

TE?

Quinn?

The mioghty Grraham at 10 milliopn.

Scheff, benched at 500k.

Marshall?

NEVER been convicted of a felony. Never.

Dumbass coach?

Fuhrer.

we will see, won't we Popps, 8-8.

Back into the peanut butter I see. You really should find something else to do other than root against Denver and claim to like them.

Dagmar
04-12-2010, 09:56 PM
Ah yes, he's online, but wont answer?

The MVPlaya
04-12-2010, 10:01 PM
We have the oldest D in the NFL, drafted 6 of 9 on offense.

Won't get #14 back.

Clady regressed, Holtien sucked,Weigman was benched, we never ran right anyway.

RB:

Worse than -08 despite Slowmorenho.

Hillis benched and traded.

TE?

Quinn?

The mioghty Grraham at 10 milliopn.

Scheff, benched at 500k.

Marshall?

NEVER been convicted of a felony. Never.

Dumbass coach?

Fuhrer.

we will see, won't we Popps, 8-8.

Since when are you responsible for where "500k" goes?

And Marshall needs to be convicted of a felony now to be viewed under a bad light? Hilarious!

Worse than 08? You mean when we never had a consistent RB?

You fuccin idiot. Your brain problems go much further than what we read.

Dagmar
04-12-2010, 10:10 PM
He's online, but I think he's passed out. Next post of his will be

jnxjlfklkzxd;j vm;lkkkkkk,dlkzjgk;ldxhflkzx.xcccccccccccccccccccc cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

Br0nc0Buster
04-12-2010, 10:13 PM
Are Mock's words the thoughts of a sober man?

BroncoBuff
04-12-2010, 10:22 PM
"Shanny copying McDaniels" ... still chuckling at that.

You guys should know Shanahan well enough to realize the last thing that egomaniac would ever do is "copy" a young buck, especially one that took his job and has dismantled/is dismantling his prized young offense.

And even without all that, it's not happening anyway. Mango detailed perfectly good distinctions between these purported "similarities", and I added some to it, in red ... http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2801220&postcount=33

baja
04-12-2010, 10:26 PM
"Shanny copying McDaniels" ... still chuckling at that.

You guys should know Shanahan well enough to realize the last thing that egomaniac would ever do is "copy" a young buck, especially one that took his job and has dismantled/is dismantling his prized young offense.

And even without all that, it's not happening anyway. Mango detailed perfectly good distinctions between these purported "similarities", and I added some to it, in red ... http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2801220&postcount=33

I think it shows Shanny is pulling out all the stops in order to get better. Copying Josh is a smart move by Mike.

watermock
04-12-2010, 10:46 PM
"Shanny copying McDaniels" ... still chuckling at that.

You guys should know Shanahan well enough to realize the last thing that egomaniac would ever do is "copy" a young buck, especially one that took his job and has dismantled/is dismantling his prized young offense.

And even without all that, it's not happening anyway. Mango detailed perfectly good distinctions between these purported "similarities", and I added some to it, in red ... http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2801220&postcount=33

It's funny.

Dagmar
04-12-2010, 10:48 PM
It's funny.

Where is your response to your "facts"?

ie lies.

watermock
04-12-2010, 10:51 PM
Yet you said the same.

Jesus Christ.

What an idiot.

watermock
04-12-2010, 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by watermock
jnxjlfklkzxd;j vm;lkkkkkk,dlkzjgk;ldxhflkzx.xcccccccccccccccccccc cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc


Moron.

watermock
04-12-2010, 10:55 PM
quoteyou guys should know shanahan well enough to realize the last thing that egomaniac would ever do is "copy" a young buck, especially one that took his job and has dismantled/is dismantling his prized young offense.
]

[/quote]

wtf?

azbroncfan
04-12-2010, 10:56 PM
Now the above post of Mock calling himself a moron is classic.

Dagmar
04-12-2010, 10:57 PM
Moron.

You stated it was a fact we had the oldest D in the NFL. Show me your evidence you retarded old freak. I am sick to death with you posting constantly with the same list of "facts" and if any poster calls you on them you ignore them entirely.

You are a Vikings fan who likes to pretend he makes spelling mistakes so Buff et al come on and defend you without you having to justify anything you say.

baja
04-12-2010, 10:59 PM
Now the above post of Mock calling himself a moron is classic.

You can't make this shiit up! ;D

baja
04-12-2010, 11:01 PM
You stated it was a fact we had the oldest D in the NFL. Show me your evidence you retarded old freak. I am sick to death with you posting constantly with the same list of "facts" and if any poster calls you on them you ignore them entirely.

You are a Vikings fan who likes to pretend he makes spelling mistakes so Buff et al come on and defend you without you having to justify anything you say.

Mock is one of the best most enjoyable posters we have here on the Mane.

He has made me laugh until I cried many a time.

baja
04-12-2010, 11:01 PM
Speaking of enjoyable posters where is Spider?

Dagmar
04-12-2010, 11:05 PM
Mock is one of the best most enjoyable posters we have here on the Mane.

He has made me laugh until I cried many a time.

Right. Me too. Sometimes he posts lies as facts and when called on them ignores being called upon.


Did you know Urban Meyer runs a sweatshop in Ghana?

Good ol' boy Shanahan gets his tan from puppy blood?

Brad Childress is actually a transvestite on Sunday evenings as long as the Vikings aren't on the evening game.

Brett Farve is a full on mack daddy pimp Monday thru Friday.

BroncoBuff
04-12-2010, 11:28 PM
I think it shows Shanny is pulling out all the stops in order to get better. Copying Josh is a smart move by Mike.

Good answer, good answer!

http://www.trashmenagerie.com/images/Family%20Feud/Family-Feud.gif

BroncoBuff
04-13-2010, 12:04 AM
. . http://www.trashmenagerie.com/images/Family%20Feud/Family-Feud.gif
. . . . . . . ^^^. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^^^
Guys who think Mike's "copying" Josh . . . . . Guys who think that's ridiculous



Look closely .... notice which guys are right.

See?

DenverBrit
04-13-2010, 05:46 AM
. . http://www.trashmenagerie.com/images/Family%20Feud/Family-Feud.gif
. . . . . . . ^^^. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^^^
Guys who think Mike's "copying" Josh . . . . . Guys who think that's ridiculous



Look closely .... notice which guys are right.

See?

See?

Yes, very scientific. Some people just don't get it. ???

rastaman
04-13-2010, 08:19 PM
"Shanny copying McDaniels" ... still chuckling at that.

You guys should know Shanahan well enough to realize the last thing that egomaniac would ever do is "copy" a young buck, especially one that took his job and has dismantled/is dismantling his prized young offense.

And even without all that, it's not happening anyway. Mango detailed perfectly good distinctions between these purported "similarities", and I added some to it, in red ... http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2801220&postcount=33

Can't really say Shanny is following McD quite yet b/c Shanny has yet to lead his team(s) to 2-8 after starting out 6-0! But then again Shanny has a chance to do just that in Wash........but I doubt it.

Archer81
04-13-2010, 08:23 PM
Can't really say Shanny is following McD quite yet b/c Shanny has yet to lead his team(s) to 2-8 after starting out 6-0! But then again Shanny has a chance to do just that in Wash........but I doubt it.


In 2006. Denver started 7-2. Put Cutler in and finished 2-5 and out of the playoffs.


:Broncos:

HAT
04-13-2010, 08:37 PM
Can't really say Shanny is following McD quite yet b/c Shanny has yet to lead his team(s) to 2-8 after starting out 6-0! But then again Shanny has a chance to do just that in Wash........but I doubt it.

****....Both of you clowns got out of detention on the same day?

Not cool.

Archer81
04-13-2010, 08:39 PM
****....Both of you clowns got out of detention on the same day?

Not cool.


Not cool at all.


:Broncos:

rastaman
04-13-2010, 08:42 PM
In 2006. Denver started 7-2. Put Cutler in and finished 2-5 and out of the playoffs.


:Broncos:

True in 2006 Jake lead the Broncos to 7-2 and Cutler went 2-5. On the other hand last season Orton lead the the Broncos to 6-0, Sims went 0-1, and Orton finished up 2-7.

rastaman
04-13-2010, 08:46 PM
****....Both of you clowns got out of detention on the same day?

Not cool.

Take easy dude. Just a little humor. You're the one that needs to cool it.

Archer81
04-13-2010, 08:51 PM
True in 2006 Jake lead the Broncos to 7-2 and Cutler went 2-5. On the other hand last season Orton lead the the Broncos to 6-0, Sims went 0-1, and Orton finished up 2-7.


Same end result. The last four years has seen the team collapse down the stretch and wind up out of playoff contention. The only similarity between the two coaching staffs are the players on the team.


:Broncos:

Blueflame
04-13-2010, 09:11 PM
In 2006. Denver started 7-2. Put Cutler in and finished 2-5 and out of the playoffs.


:Broncos:

That '06 Broncos team also started its season 0-1 when Plummer had a pathetic outing against the Lambs. Didn't he personally turn the ball over 4 times (5 total offensive turnovers)? It could have been even uglier had the defense not held the Rams to FGs; not giving up a single TD.