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Chris
04-10-2010, 10:41 AM
God sounds like an episode from Dynasty

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/11811/how-will-the-marshall-saga-end

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0407/nfl_g_bmarshall_sy_576.jpg

The Brandon Marshall watch is one of the longest and most intriguing storylines in the NFL this offseason.

The story started off hot with a Marshall visit to Seattle on the second day of free agency, but it has been in a holding pattern in the month-plus since.

Marshall, who recently turned 26, is one of the NFL's best wide receivers. Yet, because of several issues, it appears Marshall and the Denver Broncos have reached the end of their relationship.

Marshall is a restricted free agent who was given a first-round tender. The date for signing restricted free agents to an offer sheet is Thursday. So far, Seattle has been the only team to show real interest. There have been rumors and speculation of other teams being interested, but nothing concrete has materialized.

Denver has made it known it wants a first-round pick for Marshall. But if he isn’t signed to an offer sheet, the Broncos may have a difficult time getting their asking price. Denver may have to end up settling for another package, perhaps of existing players, a package of later picks or future picks. It wouldn’t be a surprise if this saga doesn’t conclude until the draft, which begins April 22. Currently, the most likely scenario for this coming to an end is during the second round on April 23. Here's a look at possibilities for Marshall:

Seattle: The Seahawks clearly have interest. They brought Marshall to their facility via a seaplane March 6. Seattle coach Pete Carroll acknowledged late last month that the team has had preliminary talks with Marshall’s agent about a new contract.

Seattle is still interested and must be considered the front-runner to acquire Marshall. I expect Seattle’s interest will continue into the draft, but there are sticking points. The Seahawks are unlikely to surrender the No. 6 or No. 14 pick (acquired from Denver during a draft-day trade last year). Because of a trade for San Diego No. 3 quarterback Charlie Whitehurst, Seattle now has the No. 60 overall pick in the second-round and not the No. 40 pick. So, Seattle may have to get creative to get Marshall. Perhaps it will give up the No. 60 pick, and another pick in the draft and/or a conditional future pick. If Seattle really wants Marshall, it could even make a trade in which it switches the No. 6 overall pick with Denver’s No. 11 pick as part of a package.

Washington: The Washington Post reported this week that the Redskins still may be in play for Marshall after trading the No. 37 overall pick (and a conditional pick next year) for Donovan McNabb. The Post reasons that the Redskins may want to pair Marshall with McNabb to make a fast run in the NFC East.

It was thought a Marshall deal would be out of the question after the Redskins gave up their second-round pick for McNabb. It would be a shock if the Redskins gave up the No. 4 pick for Marshall. If it wants him, perhaps Washington would be willing to give up their first-round pick in 2011 for Marshall.

It's going to take creativity to make Denver happy if a 2010 first-round pick is not part of the deal. Washington leaders Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen are known for being aggressive. If the Redskins want Marshall, they could go get him.

Other teams: Perhaps a team that drafts late in the first round will decide trading for and giving a large contract to a known commodity such as Marshall is better than giving a big contract to a draft pick. Marshall, a four-year veteran, has 100 or more catches in the past three seasons and is a brilliant talent. The Jets, Dolphins, Patriots, Cowboys, Rams (who have the first pick in the second round) and Bengals have all been connected to Marshall, but none has made a move.

Until they do, the Broncos may be stuck and only have to deal with Seattle. Denver must hope that Oklahoma State wide receiver Dez Bryant doesn’t fall down the draft board. If Bryant, who is talented but comes with off-field questions, is off the board early in the first round, perhaps one of these aforementioned teams will make a play for Marshall while on the clock.

Staying in Denver: I mention this option last because I think this is the last resort for Denver and Marshall. Both sides want to move on. The Broncos want fair trade value and Marshall wants a fair contract extension.

If neither option develops elsewhere, Denver and Marshall may be stuck with each other. It will be interesting to see what Denver’s breaking point is. If it truly will not take anything less than a 2010 first-round pick, we will know Marshall’s future by the end of the evening on April 22.

Marshall’s PR firm recently put out a statement indicating that Marshall wants a new deal and would be willing to stay in Denver. He asked to be traded before last season and ended up having a productive season. Still, the 2009 season ended with Marshall being benched for the final game of the season (in a game Denver had playoff hopes entering) because the team thought he milked a minor injury he suffered during the practice week leading up to the game. The relationship has not been publicly mended since.

I could see Denver keeping Marshall only if it doesn’t believe it is getting fair trade value. I don’t see Denver giving Marshall a long-term deal right away. Perhaps Denver will decide getting one more productive season out of Marshall before he can leave as unrestricted free agent will be better than getting a second-round pick.

tsiguy96
04-10-2010, 10:45 AM
if we lose him next year, we get a 3rd compensatory pick, might as well just keep him this year and hope we can keep him

oubronco
04-10-2010, 10:48 AM
Marshall and McD both have said they like each other and want each other (hehehe) so why can't they reach an agreement, he just wants paid like a top talent should be paid

tsiguy96
04-10-2010, 10:53 AM
Marshall and McD both have said they like each other and want each other (hehehe) so why can't they reach an agreement, he just wants paid like a top talent should be paid

on sirius, they asked mcdaniels if he thinks him and brandon can survive together. he said people said the same thing after last offseason and they showed they can not only survive, but can thrive together.

Chris
04-10-2010, 10:54 AM
The truth on Brandon Marshall (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/16688/the-truth-on-brandon-marshall)

The Broncos want a first-round choice in return for receiver Brandon Marshall (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9705). The Seahawks want to pay less than that. The most important question might be this: What does Marshall want?

Denver cannot trade Marshall unless Marshall signs the one-year offer the Broncos made to him as a restricted free agent. Marshall is unsigned.

That means Marshall has more power than the Seahawks or Broncos in determining whether a trade takes place before, during or after the draft. The Broncos could choose to do nothing and Marshall would most likely sign the one-year offer eventually to avoid forgoing his salary. But Denver would be stuck with an unhappy player, with Marshall potentially eligible to become an unrestricted free agent after the season.

Any trade involving Marshall is most likely to happen before or during the draft. If Seattle remains the only serious suitor during the draft, the Broncos won't have realistic options beyond trading Marshall to the Seahawks or keeping him on their roster. Marshall most likely would not sign his tender to facilitate a trade without first working out a long-term deal with his next team.

The time between draft choices is enough for Marshall to sign his tender, but probably not enough for him to work out a long-term contract with a newly interested team. The Seahawks presumably would have had those discussions with Marshall already.

Restricted free agents have until April 15 -- Thursday of next week -- to sign offer sheets from other teams. The Seahawks would have to send the sixth overall pick to Denver if they signed Marshall to an offer sheet. That probably isn't happening.

Chris
04-10-2010, 10:56 AM
Personally I think there will be plenty of suitors come draft day.

Drek
04-10-2010, 11:00 AM
Marshall and McD both have said they like each other and want each other (hehehe) so why can't they reach an agreement, he just wants paid like a top talent should be paid

And the Broncos just want the financial protection any team would given Marshall's off-field issues.

See the impasse? Denver won't just give Marshall a massive check and hope he behaves, Marshall won't bet his pay day on his own good conduct. So how do you resolve that?

Kaylore
04-10-2010, 11:09 AM
Marshall is unsigned.
That means Marshall has more power than the Seahawks or Broncos in determining whether a trade takes place before, during or after the draft.
No it doesn't! If he doesn't sign he doesn't play for anyone and he doesn't get paid. The only time the tables "turn" is if a team tenders him and puts in a poison pill, at which point you can go to negotiations, but it's not likely. Marshall not signing just means he's not allowed to play in the NFL.

Paladin
04-10-2010, 11:10 AM
The truth on Brandon Marshall (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/16688/the-truth-on-brandon-marshall)

The Broncos want a first-round choice in return for receiver Brandon Marshall (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9705). The Seahawks want to pay less than that. The most important question might be this: What does Marshall want?

Denver cannot trade Marshall unless Marshall signs the one-year offer the Broncos made to him as a restricted free agent. Marshall is unsigned.

That means Marshall has more power than the Seahawks or Broncos in determining whether a trade takes place before, during or after the draft. The Broncos could choose to do nothing and Marshall would most likely sign the one-year offer eventually to avoid forgoing his salary. But Denver would be stuck with an unhappy player, with Marshall potentially eligible to become an unrestricted free agent after the season.

Any trade involving Marshall is most likely to happen before or during the draft. If Seattle remains the only serious suitor during the draft, the Broncos won't have realistic options beyond trading Marshall to the Seahawks or keeping him on their roster. Marshall most likely would not sign his tender to facilitate a trade without first working out a long-term deal with his next team.

The time between draft choices is enough for Marshall to sign his tender, but probably not enough for him to work out a long-term contract with a newly interested team. The Seahawks presumably would have had those discussions with Marshall already.

Restricted free agents have until April 15 -- Thursday of next week -- to sign offer sheets from other teams. The Seahawks would have to send the sixth overall pick to Denver if they signed Marshall to an offer sheet. That probably isn't happening.


I think this is wrong. I think teams are hoping that Marshall does not sign a Sheet, and that would allow teams to make different proposals to Denver.

The Broncos still control the game. It is what other teams are willing to give up in players and/or picks(s). After that, the team would have to deal with Marshall's agent.....

oubronco
04-10-2010, 11:13 AM
And the Broncos just want the financial protection any team would given Marshall's off-field issues.

See the impasse? Denver won't just give Marshall a massive check and hope he behaves, Marshall won't bet his pay day on his own good conduct. So how do you resolve that?

well i'm sure they can come up with a suitable contract between them without trying to insult him with a bullshyt offer see they can only go so far lowballing players before it bites them in the ass

tsiguy96
04-10-2010, 11:19 AM
i still think its funny when these "analysts" think marshall has ANY leverage. if we dont get a good offer, he remains a denver bronco. just because he doesnt want to play or doesnt want to do this and that, thats his deal, but we dont have to move him under any circumstance that we dont want to. hes under contract and will remain that way, or he doenst play football.

watermock
04-10-2010, 11:19 AM
None of the 06 class has signed their tender other than Kuper.

oubronco
04-10-2010, 11:21 AM
None of the 06 class has signed their tender other than Kuper.

Not many RFA's have

Dagmar
04-10-2010, 11:27 AM
None of the 06 class has signed their tender other than Kuper.

Do use a picture of the '06 draft class any time you want to rub out out?

Drek
04-10-2010, 11:38 AM
well i'm sure they can come up with a suitable contract between them without trying to insult him with a bullshyt offer see they can only go so far lowballing players before it bites them in the ass

Something like the $9.5M a year deal the Broncos offered him last off-season?

Why didn't he take that? It would've made him the #2 highest paid WR in the NFL, behind Fitzgerald who even Marshall acknowledges to be a better player.

WolfpackGuy
04-10-2010, 11:54 AM
Once some sucker team picks Dez Bryant, the Broncos' phone will be ringing for a Marshall trade.

gyldenlove
04-10-2010, 12:25 PM
Something like the $9.5M a year deal the Broncos offered him last off-season?

Why didn't he take that? It would've made him the #2 highest paid WR in the NFL, behind Fitzgerald who even Marshall acknowledges to be a better player.

Because if he got injured and the medical staff somehow missed it (which has happened before) the Broncos would pull an Al Wilson and say tough **** dude and cut him, he would then be left with no way of making money for the rest of his life, no medical coverage and looking down the business end of a HUGE medical bill for reconstructive surgery and rehab.

oubronco
04-10-2010, 12:28 PM
Something like the $9.5M a year deal the Broncos offered him last off-season?

Why didn't he take that? It would've made him the #2 highest paid WR in the NFL, behind Fitzgerald who even Marshall acknowledges to be a better player.

because noone in there right mind would've signed that contract it was backloaded with no signing bonus to speak of and he would not have gotten half of it so whats your point

tsiguy96
04-10-2010, 12:47 PM
because noone in there right mind would've signed that contract it was backloaded with no signing bonus to speak of and he would not have gotten half of it so whats your point

so instead hell play for 2.4 and 3.2 million a year for next two years. money he lost last year and will this year will be hard to recover with his next contract.

Drek
04-10-2010, 12:47 PM
because noone in there right mind would've signed that contract it was backloaded with no signing bonus to speak of and he would not have gotten half of it so whats your point

So you know the full details? All I've ever seen reported was that it was $9.5M a year with little in long term guaranteed bonus money.

You got something to prove that it was backloaded and that the team wasn't offering him a legitimate $9.5M a year payday as long as he behaved?

Because if he got injured and the medical staff somehow missed it (which has happened before) the Broncos would pull an Al Wilson and say tough **** dude and cut him, he would then be left with no way of making money for the rest of his life, no medical coverage and looking down the business end of a HUGE medical bill for reconstructive surgery and rehab.
So I guess insurance is completely out of the question hmm?

Nevermind that the team would take out an insurance policy on him for themselves. Marshall obviously couldn't manage to have such a policy that would make up for his potential loss due to career ending injury.

Or the fact that if something like what you outlined happened he could easily win a major malpractice suit against the Broncos medical staff, who obviously carry malpractice insurance themselves.

The excuses for why Marshall refused the deal last off-season are as tenuous and frail as they come. The only reasons that hold up to any scrutiny are either his strong distaste for remaining in Denver, or he himself having no faith in his ability to behave. Because they don't sell "I'm a ****ing retard and just pissed away a massive NFL contract" insurance.

extralife
04-10-2010, 03:10 PM
No top flight player in the NFL would ever sign a deal with little or no guaranteed money. Don't be an idiot.

Cool Breeze
04-10-2010, 03:16 PM
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2007/10/total-recall-two-weeks-490.jpg

Doggcow
04-10-2010, 03:21 PM
Marshall

or

Marshal

???

baja
04-10-2010, 05:08 PM
Do use a picture of the '06 draft class any time you want to rub out out?

That's a disturbing vision

Dedhed
04-10-2010, 05:37 PM
Personally I think there will be plenty of suitors come draft day.

So do I. I think once the offer sheet deadline passes things will heat up concerning Marshall. I think there are a number of teams who would like Marshall, but they want the chance to negotiate a trade for him.

Signing Marshall to an offer sheet doesn't allow for any negotiation. Once the offer sheet deadline passes there will be more wiggle room for deals to get done.

Drek
04-10-2010, 06:06 PM
No top flight player in the NFL would ever sign a deal with little or no guaranteed money. Don't be an idiot.

Maybe if Marshall acted like a top flight player at any time other than on Sundays he wouldn't need to worry about that.

Guy made his bed. No team wants to offer him the kind of multi-million dollar signing bonus he's seeking. The Broncos are to this point the only one that has even offered him a deal that would play him an AAV in line with what he wants.

So what is more befitting of a "top flight player"? Taking the AAV and proving he's a safe bet at which point he earns the big dollars he's been after, or continuing to play without a long term deal and making all of $2.5M next season.

Atwater His Ass
04-10-2010, 06:21 PM
Teams are willing to pay Marshall. Any team that trades for Marshall is going to offer him a substantial contract and make him happy to play for them.

They just have reservations about Denver's asking price.

All Marshall has wanted for the past 2 seasons was to get paid, just like every other NFL player. He's produced on Sunday's and deserves his pay day. If Denver doesn't want to give it to him, someone else gladly will.

baja
04-10-2010, 06:27 PM
Teams are willing to pay Marshall. Any team that trades for Marshall is going to offer him a substantial contract and make him happy to play for them.

They just have reservations about Denver's asking price.

All Marshall has wanted for the past 2 seasons was to get paid, just like every other NFL player. He's produced on Sunday's and deserves his pay day. If Denver doesn't want to give it to him, <b> someone else gladly will.


If it were "gladly" he would be there now.

maher_tyler
04-10-2010, 06:31 PM
Teams are willing to pay Marshall. Any team that trades for Marshall is going to offer him a substantial contract and make him happy to play for them.

They just have reservations about Denver's asking price.

All Marshall has wanted for the past 2 seasons was to get paid, just like every other NFL player. He's produced on Sunday's and deserves his pay day. If Denver doesn't want to give it to him, someone else gladly will.

With a contract that has financial protection in case he ****s up again. When he doesn't sign a contract like that, he's basically saying he can't stay out of trouble off the field..why would you want to pay a guy millions if he's a few **** ups from being out of the league. Look at Pacman Jones!!

Dr. Broncenstein
04-10-2010, 06:41 PM
Maybe we can get a 2011 first rounder from the skins, and trade that for a 2010 second round pick?

Drek
04-10-2010, 06:45 PM
With a contract that has financial protection in case he ****s up again. When he doesn't sign a contract like that, he's basically saying he can't stay out of trouble off the field..why would you want to pay a guy millions if he's a few **** ups from being out of the league. Look at Pacman Jones!!

Thats just it. The current CBA limits how much money a team can try to recoup from a player, so unless there are specific clauses deferring bonus money throughout the deal there is no way a team can put these protections in place.

The FO tried to offer Marshall such a deal with deferred bonus payouts and Marshall refused it.

That potential liability wasn't as big a deal when Tagliabu was running things, but with Goddell running the show poor off-field behavior now has direct consequences. So teams got to CYA.

Atwater His Ass
04-10-2010, 06:52 PM
With a contract that has financial protection in case he ****s up again. When he doesn't sign a contract like that, he's basically saying he can't stay out of trouble off the field..why would you want to pay a guy millions if he's a few **** ups from being out of the league. Look at Pacman Jones!!

Some team will take the chance on Marshall. Marshall isn't in the same league as Pacman on the trouble side and is way ahead on actually producing in the NFL.

Any team that trades for Marshall is going to offer him a contract that satisfies him. It just doesn't make sense not to, since the only reason Marshall is unhappy right now is because he doesn't have that contract. No team is going to trade for Marshall and then put with the distraction of not offering him a long term deal to make him happy.

TotallyScrewed
04-10-2010, 07:17 PM
And the Broncos just want the financial protection any team would given Marshall's off-field issues.

See the impasse? Denver won't just give Marshall a massive check and hope he behaves, Marshall won't bet his pay day on his own good conduct. So how do you resolve that?

You pay for play. He's made the "exclusive, elite talent" level with his play over the last three seasons and should be paid as such. If he has conduct "unbecoming" and is suspended by the team or is suspended by the league, he loses paychecks. Now, that doesn't resolve the desire to have a ton of bonus or guaranteed money but even I can come up with some ways to protect both sides...

For example: How about a smaller signing bonus, followed by a training camp bonus and a season opening bonus and a quarterly bonus and so on where perhaps Brandon is getting a very good bonus IF he meets all the stipulated requirements. Sort of a treasure hunt...of good behavior NOT performance because he's met the performance goals for the big pay day.

It's not rocket science folks.

baja
04-10-2010, 07:19 PM
That really crimps his investment options. Money over time and all that.

broncogary
04-10-2010, 07:26 PM
That really crimps his investment options. Money over time and all that.

Dollar cost averaging.

baja
04-10-2010, 07:35 PM
Dollar cost averaging.

Today I would take 10 mil now as vs 40 mil over 5 years

Dedhed
04-10-2010, 07:41 PM
Teams are willing to pay Marshall. Any team that trades for Marshall is going to offer him a substantial contract and make him happy to play for them.

They just have reservations about Denver's asking price.

All Marshall has wanted for the past 2 seasons was to get paid, just like every other NFL player. He's produced on Sunday's and deserves his pay day. If Denver doesn't want to give it to him, someone else gladly will.

Phooey. There are plenty of reservations about Marshall, the man. If Marshall didn't have his baggage there would be teams lined up around the block with offer sheets.

Of course he wouldn't be on the trade block either. The fact that no team has tried to sign him speaks clearly to their reservations about whether he can keep his head on straight.

He deserves exactly what he is getting; trepidation from teams who are intrigued by his talent on the field.

baja
04-10-2010, 07:45 PM
Phooey. There are plenty of reservations about Marshall, the man. If Marshall didn't have his baggage there would be teams lined up around the block with offer sheets.

Of course he wouldn't be on the trade block either. The fact that no team has tried to sign him speaks clearly to their reservations about whether he can keep his head on straight.

He deserves exactly what he is getting; trepidation from teams who are intrigued by his talent on the field.

No shiit if there were no off field issues than teams 6 thru 32 would have already made offers

TotallyScrewed
04-10-2010, 07:50 PM
No it doesn't! If he doesn't sign he doesn't play for anyone and he doesn't get paid. The only time the tables "turn" is if a team tenders him and puts in a poison pill, at which point you can go to negotiations, but it's not likely. Marshall not signing just means he's not allowed to play in the NFL.

As I understand it thats...

Not entirely true.

Denver would be due compensation this year or after next year they would be due NOTHING. Marshall can still play in the NFL for any team HE CHOOSES and reaches a contract agreement.

BroncoBuff
04-10-2010, 07:55 PM
a team that drafts late in the first round will decide trading for and giving a large contract to a known commodity such as Marshall is better than giving a big contract to a draft pick.

Huh? That's exactly why WE shouldn't want a draft pick.

Some people (ahem!SoCal,ahem!) overestimate the value of picks ... even first rounders are something of a crapshoot. Draft picks are great, but please don't be lullled into false optimism based on Goodman's results, and please don't buy into the grass-in-greener mindset. The odds we'd get B-Marsh production out of any 1st rounder are less than 50% imo. I hope they work this out.

montrose
04-10-2010, 08:08 PM
A Marshall trade on draft day would be very difficult. Marshall must sign his tender just to complete a trade, essentially meaning he has veto power and you'd think he's not signing anything that's not a contract extention.

Dedhed
04-10-2010, 08:09 PM
Some people (ahem!SoCal,ahem!) overestimate the value of picks ... even first rounders are something of a crapshoot. Draft picks are great, but please don't be lullled into false optimism based on Goodman's results, and please don't buy into the grass-in-greener mindset. The odds we'd get B-Marsh production out of any 1st rounder are less than 50% imo. I hope they work this out.

Others underestimate the impact of a malcontent who can't get his crap together for the good of the team.

What are the odds on Marshall staying out of trouble for the duration of his next contract? Less than 50%?

Drek
04-10-2010, 08:09 PM
You pay for play. He's made the "exclusive, elite talent" level with his play over the last three seasons and should be paid as such. If he has conduct "unbecoming" and is suspended by the team or is suspended by the league, he loses paychecks. Now, that doesn't resolve the desire to have a ton of bonus or guaranteed money but even I can come up with some ways to protect both sides...

For example: How about a smaller signing bonus, followed by a training camp bonus and a season opening bonus and a quarterly bonus and so on where perhaps Brandon is getting a very good bonus IF he meets all the stipulated requirements. Sort of a treasure hunt...of good behavior NOT performance because he's met the performance goals for the big pay day.

It's not rocket science folks.

What the hell do you think they offered him last off-season?

You can't put a $9.5M AAV deal on the table and not have it include real money. It just would've required Marshall keeping himself on the field.

But Marshall isn't willing to take that risk. He wants a big eight figure bonus guaranteed. No team in the league is going to give him that.

Marshall and his agent need a reality check. Their best move if Marshall just wants to get paid is to sit down with the Broncos, take a staggered deal where the Broncos pick up the premium on a large insurance package if he really questions the medical staff.

But if the Broncos go looking to give out large sacks of cash without any guarantee that they even play football in 2011 I'd be willing to bet that Dumervil ranks higher on that list than Marshall. Unless Brandon is willing to get mending bridges or some team gets real stupid with a first round pick Marshall needs to get real used to playing 2010 for only $2.5M with no guarantee of even playing in 2011.

BroncoBuff
04-10-2010, 08:18 PM
Others underestimate the impact of a malcontent who can't get his crap together for the good of the team.

What are the odds on Marshall staying out of trouble for the duration of his next contract? Less than 50%?

Being suspended for a game ... that is some very serious discipline, I don't blame teams for being concerned. Did we hear many details about his and Scheff's suspensions?

BroncoBuff
04-10-2010, 08:31 PM
Teams are willing to pay Marshall. Any team that trades for Marshall is going to offer him a substantial contract and make him happy to play for them.

They just have reservations about Denver's asking price.

All Marshall has wanted for the past 2 seasons was to get paid, just like every other NFL player. He's produced on Sunday's and deserves his pay day. If Denver doesn't want to give it to him, someone else gladly will.

I'm a Marshall supporter, but I think you're going too far. Remember, this is the SECOND management team in Denver that has balked at paying him. And if your "gladly" characterization were correct, there would be more suitors. Anquan Boldin is a similar talent, but it didn't seem like there were many suitors and the Ravens gave up very little for him.

It'll be very interesting to see what Shanahan does ... he knows Brandon as well as anybody. Their #4 pick is too high of course, but Mike definitely knows how to deal. If he doesn't come up with some kind of offer, we'll know for certain B-Marsh is a pariah.

TotallyScrewed
04-10-2010, 10:16 PM
What the hell do you think they offered him last off-season?

You can't put a $9.5M AAV deal on the table and not have it include real money. It just would've required Marshall keeping himself on the field.

But Marshall isn't willing to take that risk. He wants a big eight figure bonus guaranteed. No team in the league is going to give him that.

Marshall and his agent need a reality check. Their best move if Marshall just wants to get paid is to sit down with the Broncos, take a staggered deal where the Broncos pick up the premium on a large insurance package if he really questions the medical staff.

But if the Broncos go looking to give out large sacks of cash without any guarantee that they even play football in 2011 I'd be willing to bet that Dumervil ranks higher on that list than Marshall. Unless Brandon is willing to get mending bridges or some team gets real stupid with a first round pick Marshall needs to get real used to playing 2010 for only $2.5M with no guarantee of even playing in 2011.

You're better informed about all of the inside information than I am.

I understood the 9.5 M deal to not include much guaranteed money, if any. If that's the case, it won't fly...as many others have stipulated.

How much money Marshall is willing to work for has got to be a guess on most everyone's behalf.

Medical insurance is fine but only a small part of the whole deal because medical insurance will only cover repair and treatment for his injuries. It doesn't include longterm payments for his loss of playing years.

Marshall is under contract for 2010, after that he's an unrestricted free agent.

Denver has to decide what their willing to do...

EITHER man up and pay for what's due. This game is about entertainment. No one on the roster entertains more than Marshall. He's the wow factor.

OR trade him and move on. The problem with trading him is that NO team will bargain without getting his contract settled. So Brandon has to want to go there. I'm certain there are/will be plenty of teams that feel like a player of Marshall's abilities is worth a pick or several in this or future drafts. This is the path that I think will happen. Too bad, because Marshall has been fun to watch play for Denver.

misturanderson
04-10-2010, 10:42 PM
Medical insurance is fine but only a small part of the whole deal because medical insurance will only cover repair and treatment for his injuries. It doesn't include longterm payments for his loss of playing years.


I'm guessing that Drek wasn't talking about medical insurance being as every NFL player has some pretty amazing medical insurance guaranteed them already. He was obviously referring to disability insurance that would pay him in the event that he was injured in a way that made him unable to do his job.

Atwater His Ass
04-10-2010, 10:50 PM
Phooey. There are plenty of reservations about Marshall, the man. If Marshall didn't have his baggage there would be teams lined up around the block with offer sheets.

There will be, as soon as Denver's asking price comes down from a first round draft choice.

Of course he wouldn't be on the trade block either. The fact that no team has tried to sign him speaks clearly to their reservations about whether he can keep his head on straight.

He's on the block because of differences with McD, stemming from training camp last year. McDaniels has so far shown that he doesn't have the ability to deal with these kinds of situations, i.e. Cutler and Nolan as the prime examples. His solution is to end the relationship, rather than work on salvaging anything.

BroncoBuff
04-10-2010, 11:04 PM
He's on the block because of differences with McD, stemming from training camp last year.

No, this post-dates that problem. Remember the two of them hugging it up on the sidelines, and gushing over each other in post-game interviews. That pre-season BS was settled. The late season stuff was new problems ... that's why I asked if anybody knows details of the later stuff - why he and Scheff were suspended that game.

I agree McD seems to be a stubborn ass, but that preseason problem was fixed at one point.

TotallyScrewed
04-10-2010, 11:11 PM
I'm guessing that Drek wasn't talking about medical insurance being as every NFL player has some pretty amazing medical insurance guaranteed them already. He was obviously referring to disability insurance that would pay him in the event that he was injured in a way that made him unable to do his job.

Okay, but the Broncos trainers and medical staff already screwed up once in the diagnosis.

I'd like to know more about the disability insurance. My insurance sucks...not much and not for long but I don't work for millions of dollars a year either. Are you talking a "Lloyds of London" type policy or what?

Popps
04-10-2010, 11:13 PM
No it doesn't! If he doesn't sign he doesn't play for anyone and he doesn't get paid. The only time the tables "turn" is if a team tenders him and puts in a poison pill, at which point you can go to negotiations, but it's not likely. Marshall not signing just means he's not allowed to play in the NFL.

[X] Most important post in thread

ZONA
04-11-2010, 12:01 AM
I would rather keep BM but if it's his fate to go to another team, I sure hope the Broncos keep steady on asking for a 1st rounder.

That said...........

I want the most value we could get. If that means involving a pick for 2011, I would rather go that route. So if a team say offered a late 2nd round pick this year but their 1st rounder in 2011, I would be okay with that. Would much rather have that then a 2nd and 3rd this year, or something along those lines.

baja
04-11-2010, 12:16 AM
This year I'd take the 2nd & 3rd now

misturanderson
04-11-2010, 12:55 AM
Okay, but the Broncos trainers and medical staff already screwed up once in the diagnosis.

I'd like to know more about the disability insurance. My insurance sucks...not much and not for long but I don't work for millions of dollars a year either. Are you talking a "Lloyds of London" type policy or what?

I would guess that it would be similar to Jennifer Lopez being able to insure her ass for millions of dollars or Beckham insuring himself for 100 million pounds. He would get a policy worth say $10 million in the event that he is injured and can't play football for the rest of his life. Obviously the premiums wouldn't be cheap and in Drek's scenario, the Broncos pay the premium as a show of good faith.

Florida_Bronco
04-11-2010, 01:06 AM
There will be, as soon as Denver's asking price comes down from a first round draft choice. Why would it come down? They have they leverage in this situation and don't need to accept peanuts to get rid of him.

He's on the block because of differences with McD, stemming from training camp last year. McDaniels has so far shown that he doesn't have the ability to deal with these kinds of situations, i.e. Cutler and Nolan as the prime examples. His solution is to end the relationship, rather than work on salvaging anything. Not even close. Not only have Marshall and McD both spoken publicly of their relationship but as was already mentioned, Brandon was offered a contract while McD was here.

He's on the block because he's got a **** ton of baggage, is one misstep away from getting suspended for 8 games at least and doesn't want to sign any contract that protects the team financially should that situation happen.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-11-2010, 01:22 AM
No it doesn't! If he doesn't sign he doesn't play for anyone and he doesn't get paid. The only time the tables "turn" is if a team tenders him and puts in a poison pill, at which point you can go to negotiations, but it's not likely. Marshall not signing just means he's not allowed to play in the NFL.

Huh? There was only one team that can tender Marshall, and that was the Broncos. Every other team can sign him to an offer sheet. If a team signs him to an offer sheet, there are no negotiations. Either Denver matches the contract that he's signed with another team, or they let him walk and that team hands over their 1st round pick to the Broncos.

Drek
04-11-2010, 01:48 AM
Okay, but the Broncos trainers and medical staff already screwed up once in the diagnosis.

I'd like to know more about the disability insurance. My insurance sucks...not much and not for long but I don't work for millions of dollars a year either. Are you talking a "Lloyds of London" type policy or what?

Misturanderson is right in that I didn't mean strictly care and recovery insurance, but a policy that will compensate him for lost wages.

Baseball teams take it out on every player they sign because of all the guaranteed money they commit. Michael Bush insured himself for $3M as a college junior, as have other collegiate players, so a history exists for football players as well.

If Marshall believes the medical staff misdiagnosed him then either he can get over it and get such insurance, or he needs to go. If a player can't work with and trust the medical staff its going to result in problems sooner than later in any pro sport.

Ultimately Marshall is left with three choices. Take the best extension he can get from the Broncos and stay in Denver for the rest of his career, assuming he doesn't get himself suspended. Take a lower than market value deal from someone else so they're more willing to compensate the Broncos as needed to get a deal done. Or he could play for $2.5M next year and hope he 1. stays healthy 2. continues to perform 3. they actually play football in 2011 and 4. that if they do play he isn't working under another one year (though more lucrative) tag.

BroncoBuff
04-11-2010, 02:43 AM
Here's some solid evidence to back up my point, on why the draft - even the 1st round - is a crapshoot.

Here's the top 10 picks a mere 5 years ago:

1 San Francisco 49ers - Alex Smith QB
2 Miami Dolphins - Ronnie Brown RB
3 Cleveland Browns - Braylon Edwards WR
4 Chicago Bears - Cedric Benson RB
5 Tampa Bay Bucs - Carnell Williams RB
6 Tennessee Titans - Adam Jones CB
7 Minnesota Vikings - Troy Williamson WR
8 Arizona Cardinals - Antrel Rolle CB
9 Washington Redskins - Carlos Rogers CB
10 Detroit Lions - Mike Williams WR


More than half are no longer with the team that drafted them, none are difference makers like Brandon, and few if any produced much return value upon departure. And that's the TOP TEN PICKS!

Crapshoot, indeed. Sad, and I think a reality check for the Marshall situation. Point is, difference makers like Brandon don't come around very often ... he's the only one on our roster now. If there's any way to make the situation work, they should make it work.

TotallyScrewed
04-11-2010, 09:15 AM
Misturanderson is right in that I didn't mean strictly care and recovery insurance, but a policy that will compensate him for lost wages.

Baseball teams take it out on every player they sign because of all the guaranteed money they commit. Michael Bush insured himself for $3M as a college junior, as have other collegiate players, so a history exists for football players as well.

If Marshall believes the medical staff misdiagnosed him then either he can get over it and get such insurance, or he needs to go. If a player can't work with and trust the medical staff its going to result in problems sooner than later in any pro sport.

Ultimately Marshall is left with three choices. Take the best extension he can get from the Broncos and stay in Denver for the rest of his career, assuming he doesn't get himself suspended. Take a lower than market value deal from someone else so they're more willing to compensate the Broncos as needed to get a deal done. Or he could play for $2.5M next year and hope he 1. stays healthy 2. continues to perform 3. they actually play football in 2011 and 4. that if they do play he isn't working under another one year (though more lucrative) tag.

Just to be clear...

In the National Football League, the franchise tag is a designation a team may apply to a player scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent. The tag binds the player to the team for one year if certain conditions are met.

Each team has access each year to only one franchise tag (of either the exclusive or non-exclusive forms) or one transition tag. As a result, each team may only designate one player each year as that team's franchise player.
Usually reserved for players of great skill or of high importance to the team, a franchise tag allows a team's manager the privilege of strategically retaining valuable free-agent players while seeking talent through the NFL draft or other acquisitions without exceeding the League's salary cap.

If the designated franchise player elects to play for the team that designated him with the franchise tag, and does not negotiate a contract with another team his one year salary is guaranteed.
If a club withdraws their offered contract the player immediately reverts to an unrestricted free agent.

There are two types of franchise tag designations: the exclusive rights franchise tag, and non-exclusive rights franchise tag:
An "exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current year in which the tag will apply, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Exclusive franchise players cannot negotiate with other teams.
A "non-exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position in the previous year, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. A non-exclusive franchise player may negotiate with other NFL teams, but if he signs an offer sheet from another team, the original team has a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses the player, is entitled to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation.

denvernut1
04-11-2010, 09:16 AM
people r still 4getting if no one signs him or trades
4 him, next yr we still can franchise him n get 2 1st
round picks. so if any team wants him cheap just a 1st
4 his skills take him now. cause next yr teams will have
to offer more n sign him if they want him.....Hilarious!

TotallyScrewed
04-11-2010, 09:27 AM
I don't see Brandon staying in Denver because McD and Bowlen don't value him as a top five NFL wide receiver. Whatever their reasons are. Justifiable or not. Doesn't matter. If that's the case, he's gone, either this year via trade or next without compensation. Those are the Broncos choices, given their stance.

Brandon's choices are: Sign the Denver tender (which he likely won't), sign with another team (hopefully for a contract that he likes and will continue to like/honor) or play out his contract with Denver next year and become an UFA in 2011.

If top flight WR's are getting 10-17 Million a year, an insurance policy of 10M for the rest of your career seems pretty weak, if your Brandon Marshall. Barring injury, Brandon might be able to play another 5-10 years, right?

TotallyScrewed
04-11-2010, 09:28 AM
people r still 4getting if no one signs him or trades
4 him, next yr we still can franchise him n get 2 1st
round picks. so if any team wants him cheap just a 1st
4 his skills take him now. cause next yr teams will have
to offer more n sign him if they want him.....Hilarious!

So will Denver...GUARANTEED.

tsiguy96
04-11-2010, 10:00 AM
I don't see Brandon staying in Denver because McD and Bowlen don't value him as a top five NFL wide receiver. Whatever their reasons are. Justifiable or not. Doesn't matter. If that's the case, he's gone, either this year via trade or next without compensation. Those are the Broncos choices, given their stance.

Brandon's choices are: Sign the Denver tender (which he likely won't), sign with another team (hopefully for a contract that he likes and will continue to like/honor) or play out his contract with Denver next year and become an UFA in 2011.

If top flight WR's are getting 10-17 Million a year, an insurance policy of 10M for the rest of your career seems pretty weak, if your Brandon Marshall. Barring injury, Brandon might be able to play another 5-10 years, right?

3rd round compensatory pick.

misturanderson
04-11-2010, 10:37 AM
I don't see Brandon staying in Denver because McD and Bowlen don't value him as a top five NFL wide receiver. Whatever their reasons are. Justifiable or not. Doesn't matter. If that's the case, he's gone, either this year via trade or next without compensation. Those are the Broncos choices, given their stance.

Brandon's choices are: Sign the Denver tender (which he likely won't), sign with another team (hopefully for a contract that he likes and will continue to like/honor) or play out his contract with Denver next year and become an UFA in 2011.

If top flight WR's are getting 10-17 Million a year, an insurance policy of 10M for the rest of your career seems pretty weak, if your Brandon Marshall. Barring injury, Brandon might be able to play another 5-10 years, right?

First of all, receivers aren't getting $10-17 million per year, Fitzgerald is the highest paid receiver in the league and he is getting $10 million per year (most of it was guaranteed though).

Second of all, the $10 million insurance number I threw out was just for illustrative purposes, he would have to figure out what terms he wanted when he took out the policy.

Lastly, McD and Bowlen obviously do see him as a top 5 receiver on the field or they wouldn't have offered him a contract that would have made him the 2nd highest paid receiver in the league. They also see him as a huge liability due to his off-the-field actions and as a result don't want to give him a mostly guaranteed contract like Fitzgerald got. I don't see how anyone could pretend that isn't a reasonable concern with Marshall.

Marshall's problem is that he isn't willing to take a contract that provides protections for the team, for reasons that only he knows. He could absolutely get some insurance for the possibility of a career-threatening injury, so I don't really see what other reason he has to scoff at the non-guaranteed offer except that he doesn't trust himself to stay out of trouble or is more worried about looking bad by taking a non-traditional contract than he is about getting paid.

TotallyScrewed
04-11-2010, 10:46 AM
According to a story in USA Today, for the 2006 season Reggie Wayne of the Indianapolis Colts had the highest salary for a wide receiver. He made $15,100,440 for the 2006 season.
Larry Fitzgeral, Last season (08-09) was paid $17,103,480. He was the highest paid Wide Reciever in the league this season, AND THE BEST.

TotallyScrewed
04-11-2010, 10:51 AM
I've not seen the contract offered by the Broncos. It would be interesting to see the amount guaranteed and the amount of insurance they're buying for Marshall against career ending injury.

As the man says...SHOW ME THE MONEY.

TotallyScrewed
04-11-2010, 10:52 AM
3rd round compensatory pick.

Okay...but you and I know what I meant...compensation from another team. And compensatory picks are taken after the regular round picks so it's really like a start of round four pick.

misturanderson
04-11-2010, 11:03 AM
According to a story in USA Today, for the 2006 season Reggie Wayne of the Indianapolis Colts had the highest salary for a wide receiver. He made $15,100,440 for the 2006 season.
Larry Fitzgeral, Last season (08-09) was paid $17,103,480. He was the highest paid Wide Reciever in the league this season, AND THE BEST.

And how much of those numbers were either roster or performance bonuses or just the guaranteed money that was being paid out that year? That isn't their annual salary or the average payout for each year of their contract. Fitzgeralds contract was for 4-years and $40 million ($30 million guaranteed), hence $10 million per year (he just gets more of it at the beginning than the end). Wayne has a 6-year $39.5 million contract with about $13 million guaranteed so his average annual payout over the life of the contract is about $6.6 million. Roddy white signed a 6-year $48 million dollar contract with $18.6 million guaranteed or about $8 million per year.

Those are the 3 highest paid WRs in the league at the moment. Notice how none of them have had any trouble staying on the field due to off-the-field issues AND they perform like top 10 receivers on the field.

The $9.5 million per year that Marshall was offered would have likely had additional money available as performance incentives and potentially roster bonuses. We will probably never know the real details because the contract was never signed and therefore doesn't get released to the public.

orange&blue87
04-11-2010, 11:22 AM
Here's some solid evidence to back up my point, on why the draft - even the 1st round - is a crapshoot.

Here's the top 10 picks a mere 5 years ago:

1 San Francisco 49ers - Alex Smith QB
2 Miami Dolphins - Ronnie Brown RB
3 Cleveland Browns - Braylon Edwards WR
4 Chicago Bears - Cedric Benson RB
5 Tampa Bay Bucs - Carnell Williams RB
6 Tennessee Titans - Adam Jones CB
7 Minnesota Vikings - Troy Williamson WR
8 Arizona Cardinals - Antrel Rolle CB
9 Washington Redskins - Carlos Rogers CB
10 Detroit Lions - Mike Williams WR


More than half are no longer with the team that drafted them, none are difference makers like Brandon, and few if any produced much return value upon departure. And that's the TOP TEN PICKS!

Crapshoot, indeed. Sad, and I think a reality check for the Marshall situation. Point is, difference makers like Brandon don't come around very often ... he's the only one on our roster now. If there's any way to make the situation work, they should make it work.

The argument works both ways. If he is such a great difference maker, then teams in the league should be knocking each other over in an attempt to trade a 1st for him. To this point, 0/29 want to sign him to a long term deal for a 1st round pick. Granted some may not want to trade a high first, but it shows that Denver should in no way be in a hurry to give him a huge guaranteed deal.

Drek
04-11-2010, 12:21 PM
According to a story in USA Today, for the 2006 season Reggie Wayne of the Indianapolis Colts had the highest salary for a wide receiver. He made $15,100,440 for the 2006 season.
Larry Fitzgeral, Last season (08-09) was paid $17,103,480. He was the highest paid Wide Reciever in the league this season, AND THE BEST.

Do you not understand the concept of average annual value? That is the terms every professional sport views their deals in. The NFL lets teams get creative as to when they pay it for cap purposes, but all anyone in the NFL actually cares about his A. how much is guaranteed and B. what is the AAV.

Larry Fitzgerald gets ~$10M AAV and has a huge guarantee, but that is because he had all the leverage when he redid his new contract since the Cardinals FO has been giving out a 5th year option on their rookie deals that no other team has been using. In short if a player reaches certain incentives the 5th year option the Cardinals negotiated vests at a very high salary. Fitzgerald's vested at $18M. So the Cards either had to cut the best WR in the NFL, pay him $18M for one season and have a franchise tag number of nearly $20M the following year, or sign an extension. Obviously they moved heaven and earth to get an extension done that they could handle.

The same problem just bit them in the ass with Antrel Rolle. He hit certain escalators in his 5th year option that would have required the Cardinals to pay him in excess of $12M. They didn't really want to give a good but not great safety that kind of money or give him the kind of cash needed to renegotiate. They released him and the Giants gave him the biggest contract for a safety in NFL history.

Fitz's AAV in $10M though and is the highest in the NFL. The Broncos offered Marshall a long term deal with $9.5M AAV, which would've made him the second highest paid WR in the NFL. Saying they don't want to retain him after making that kind of offer seems a little crazy doesn't it? If they didn't want him they never would have made that offer in the first place.

The Broncos want to keep Marshall, they're just unwilling to do so on his terms without any protection. The reasoning behind that is quite obvious.

They won't trade him for a pittance by any stretch, because worst case scenario the league's new CBA doesn't include franchise tags and they still get the first compensatory pick in the 2012 draft. So a team needs to offer more than what another season of Marshall and a 3rd round pick is worth just to even make the conversation worth having. I'd say that starts at about a first rounder, the value Denver put on Marshall as an RFA. If no one is willing to offer that then I'm sure McDaniels would absolutely love to have Marshall back for another season.

tsiguy96
04-11-2010, 12:28 PM
Do you not understand the concept of average annual value? That is the terms every professional sport views their deals in. The NFL lets teams get creative as to when they pay it for cap purposes, but all anyone in the NFL actually cares about his A. how much is guaranteed and B. what is the AAV.

Larry Fitzgerald gets ~$10M AAV and has a huge guarantee, but that is because he had all the leverage when he redid his new contract since the Cardinals FO has been giving out a 5th year option on their rookie deals that no other team has been using. In short if a player reaches certain incentives the 5th year option the Cardinals negotiated vests at a very high salary. Fitzgerald's vested at $18M. So the Cards either had to cut the best WR in the NFL, pay him $18M for one season and have a franchise tag number of nearly $20M the following year, or sign an extension. Obviously they moved heaven and earth to get an extension done that they could handle.

The same problem just bit them in the ass with Antrel Rolle. He hit certain escalators in his 5th year option that would have required the Cardinals to pay him in excess of $12M. They didn't really want to give a good but not great safety that kind of money or give him the kind of cash needed to renegotiate. They released him and the Giants gave him the biggest contract for a safety in NFL history.

Fitz's AAV in $10M though and is the highest in the NFL. The Broncos offered Marshall a long term deal with $9.5M AAV, which would've made him the second highest paid WR in the NFL. Saying they don't want to retain him after making that kind of offer seems a little crazy doesn't it? If they didn't want him they never would have made that offer in the first place.

The Broncos want to keep Marshall, they're just unwilling to do so on his terms without any protection. The reasoning behind that is quite obvious.

They won't trade him for a pittance by any stretch, because worst case scenario the league's new CBA doesn't include franchise tags and they still get the first compensatory pick in the 2012 draft. So a team needs to offer more than what another season of Marshall and a 3rd round pick is worth just to even make the conversation worth having. I'd say that starts at about a first rounder, the value Denver put on Marshall as an RFA. If no one is willing to offer that then I'm sure McDaniels would absolutely love to have Marshall back for another season.

lot of people keep forgetting about compensatory picks, but you know mcdaniels thinks marshall for one more year + chance for long term is worth more than giving him away for 2nd right now.

Bronco Yoda
04-12-2010, 01:18 AM
Just pay him already.

Popps
04-12-2010, 01:58 AM
Just pay him already.

...before be has to smack a bitch.

Kaylore
04-12-2010, 08:45 PM
Huh? There was only one team that can tender Marshall, and that was the Broncos. Every other team can sign him to an offer sheet. If a team signs him to an offer sheet, there are no negotiations. Either Denver matches the contract that he's signed with another team, or they let him walk and that team hands over their 1st round pick to the Broncos.

It's not immediate and to prevent poison pills after the tender they can negotiate something out after the fact. A good example is Welker who was tendered with a poison pill and then the Dolphins and Patriots negotiated out the compensation before the period to match ended.