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cmhargrove
04-09-2010, 08:44 AM
You know, sometimes things hit you right out of the blue and you don't know how they will affect you. Just found out yesterday that my dog has Lymphoma. That sucks really bad, she is a very active lab - the kind that sleeps in my kid's bed at night.

So, I got online and started doing research. I had no idea how common this was. Anyway, it really sucked to tell my son that his dog was dying, but I thought I would ask the posters around here.

Has anyone been through this? Did you do chemo? Did it work? How much was it, and how long did your dog live?

I made an appointment with a vet. oncologist, but thought I would prepare myself (and my son).

Thanks in advance.

Dedhed
04-09-2010, 08:50 AM
You know, sometimes things hit you right out of the blue and you don't know how they will affect you. Just found out yesterday that my dog has Lymphoma. That sucks really bad, she is a very active lab - the kind that sleeps in my kid's bed at night.

So, I got online and started doing research. I had no idea how common this was. Anyway, it really sucked to tell my son that his dog was dying, but I thought I would ask the posters around here.

Has anyone been through this? Did you do chemo? Did it work? How much was it, and how long did your dog live?

I made an appointment with a vet. oncologist, but thought I would prepare myself (and my son).

Thanks in advance.
Sorry to hear that, man. How old is she? Sadly the prognosis for Lymphoma in dogs isn't very good.

Trust what your general vet says more than the oncologist. I work with an animal hospital and can tell you that a lot of specialists are more concerned with themselves than your dog.

My girlfriend's mother just lost a dog to lymphoma at 13.

Requiem
04-09-2010, 08:51 AM
I'm not sure exactly how much the chemo would cost, but I do know that medical expenses for pets have been going through the roof for a while now. I had a friend recently who had some sort of replacement in the leg of one of their dogs and it cost the family roughly ~ $7,000 to have it done.

Here is a link that I found that could be useful to you. (http://www.costhelper.com/cost/pets/dog-cancer-treatment.html)

I'm sorry to hear that this is going on. I lost my dog Sandy who was 15 years old right before I went off to college. I wrapped her in a blanket and she died in my arms on the living room floor early in the morning. Later that day, I dug a huge plot in my grandparents garden and laid her to rest with some of her favorite things she had in life. Our garden has been growing awesome ever since!

Pets are extremely significant to us, and in fact -- the loss of a pet is one of the first instances us humans ever encounter with death -- and greatly influence our lives. My advice to you is to be honest with your son on exactly what is going on. Don't put it to him in terms that relate to his age, but just portray what is going on in the realistic and correct manner. (Looks like you already told him, but I just thought I'd put this out there.)

I'm sorry to hear of this.

I hope that you, your son and your lab will be able to get through this. I can tell by you posting this how much she means to you. I hope everything goes well. Stay strong!

CEH
04-09-2010, 08:54 AM
You know, sometimes things hit you right out of the blue and you don't know how they will affect you. Just found out yesterday that my dog has Lymphoma. That sucks really bad, she is a very active lab - the kind that sleeps in my kid's bed at night.

So, I got online and started doing research. I had no idea how common this was. Anyway, it really sucked to tell my son that his dog was dying, but I thought I would ask the posters around here.

Has anyone been through this? Did you do chemo? Did it work? How much was it, and how long did your dog live?

I made an appointment with a vet. oncologist, but thought I would prepare myself (and my son).

Thanks in advance.

Yes my half Lab had some sort of cancer in her mouth and I took her from Highland Ranch to the vet hospital at CSU in Fort Collins for chemo once a month

It did prolong her life for about 6 months but if I had to do it again unfortunately I would probably put her to sleep

Cost was around $1500 . I did it more for the family but for the last 3-4 weeks she was not herself and could barely move.

Every dog is different but that was my personal experience

HorseHead
04-09-2010, 08:55 AM
Sorry to hear about that..from what I hear, any kind of chemo. is gonna cost ya. You are probably a lot like the rest of us when it comes to a family pet not having a price tag. You can't put a dollar amount on that unconditional love...

Tombstone RJ
04-09-2010, 08:56 AM
You know, sometimes things hit you right out of the blue and you don't know how they will affect you. Just found out yesterday that my dog has Lymphoma. That sucks really bad, she is a very active lab - the kind that sleeps in my kid's bed at night.

So, I got online and started doing research. I had no idea how common this was. Anyway, it really sucked to tell my son that his dog was dying, but I thought I would ask the posters around here.

Has anyone been through this? Did you do chemo? Did it work? How much was it, and how long did your dog live?

I made an appointment with a vet. oncologist, but thought I would prepare myself (and my son).

Thanks in advance.

This is just MHO, so take it for what it's worth:

This can be a great opportunity for you to teach you kids about death. I know that sounds harsh, but they are going to have to deal with death at some point and time in their lives.

Yah, it sucks. Yah, life ain't fair. "But we will all get through this together."

Life lessons are hard but unfortunately very necessary...

Requiem
04-09-2010, 09:00 AM
Very well put Tombstone. I'm not sure about CM's life and his son's encounters with death, but pet loss is usually what we as humans first experience. It will be an important time in both of your life's to come to terms and an understanding of what is going on. Even though unfortunate -- it is a great opportunity.

TailgateNut
04-09-2010, 09:01 AM
Sorry abotu the bad news you received. I don't know much about the survivabilty with that pronosis, but we just lost our 5 year old german shepherd last year to a organ birth defect which din't manifest itself until he was 5. We spent a few grand on tests, x-rays and treatment, but after two weeks the Vet told us he wouldn't make it and the most humane thing to do was to put him "to sleep".

Bronco_Beerslug
04-09-2010, 09:03 AM
You know, sometimes things hit you right out of the blue and you don't know how they will affect you. Just found out yesterday that my dog has Lymphoma. That sucks really bad, she is a very active lab - the kind that sleeps in my kid's bed at night.

So, I got online and started doing research. I had no idea how common this was. Anyway, it really sucked to tell my son that his dog was dying, but I thought I would ask the posters around here.

Has anyone been through this? Did you do chemo? Did it work? How much was it, and how long did your dog live?

I made an appointment with a vet. oncologist, but thought I would prepare myself (and my son).

Thanks in advance.

Sorry to hear about your dog. To some of us, they can be just about as important to us as our kids are.
It can be treated but like most other cancers, catching it early (http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2101&aid=459) is the key.

My 15 year old female is fading fast from old age and I know the day is coming soon when I have to make the decision to put her down.

gunns
04-09-2010, 09:08 AM
I'm so sorry. I took my dog in to see what his problem was and was told an enlarged heart. The Dr said at least it wasn't cancer. So I'm assuming it doesn't have a good outcome. I'd find out what your options are and the effect it will have on your dog. My heart goes out to your son too. They are a big part of your family.

SoDak Bronco
04-09-2010, 09:10 AM
Go watch Marley and Me with your kids. It will be sad, but a great way to make you smile as well.

baja
04-09-2010, 09:14 AM
My condolences to you and your family. I would say enjoy what time you have left and when she gets in a lot pain put her to rest.

Rigs11
04-09-2010, 09:17 AM
I'm so sorry. My aunt's dog had lymphoma at 4 years old.We took him to CSU and they told us that they could do chemo, but that he would have to spend alot of time there. We decided to just spoil him for this remaining months. My aunt was heartbroken.

TailgateNut
04-09-2010, 09:17 AM
Go watch Marley and Me with your kids. It will be sad, but a great way to make you smile as well.


That's a funny movie. Kinda reminds me of my current dog. (I should have named her "Destructo". All my other dogs have been laid back, this one only works at one speed (100MPH) all day.

I believe she's part rottie/part cheetah/ and part kangaroo.:wiggle:

gyldenlove
04-09-2010, 09:45 AM
I lost my first dog to cervical cancer, they were able to resect it but it had metastacized to the nodes and she died pretty quickly after the operation. I think the operation ran about 2000$.

In hindsight, she was an old dog, I would have not done the surgery, and just let her have a good time in the end and then have her put down. If your dog is an older dog I wouldn't recommend the chemo, it will be pretty misserable on your dog and your family and if you are not going to get several good years on the other side it won't be worth the emotional anguish of seeing your dog suffering through chemo.

DenverBroncosJM
04-09-2010, 09:51 AM
I have had to put down three dogs in my life and it's one of the hardest things to do.

I would not do the chemo. A human understands all the discomfort of chemo is going to prolong life, a dog has no clue.

Ask your vet how long will the dog continue to have quality of life an then plan from there. Doesn't hurt to feed your dog hamburger meat at every meal in the mean time, and take pictures.

When te time has come I would not bring the kids in the room when they give the injection it's hard very hard for adults for kids I can only imagine.

Sorry about your dog. I would make it's remaining life the best it can be!

Archer81
04-09-2010, 09:53 AM
Marley and Me is a horrible movie. I had a dog alot like Marley we had to put down in February of 2009. He was an awesome dog. Solid black, built like a greyhound but the weight of a lab. Awesome puppy. We got him when he was 6 months old and had him until he was 14. One day he just did not want to get up anymore, so we put him down.

Im sorry to hear about your pup, CMH. Its hard to watch a pet decline, but as others have said in the thread, it will be a good tool to use to teach kids about death, that its part of life. Id spoil that dog rotten for the time she has left, and kind of work the kids into the knowledge that she is very sick.

:Broncos:

Meck77
04-09-2010, 09:57 AM
Sorry to hear that man.

I'm not sure how effective chemo is on dogs but having watched my friend suffer through numerous chemo treatments he often wondered if the chemo was worse then the cancer he was dealing with.

I had to put a dog down I had for 16 years. It was difficult but it but I know it stopped any pain she was feeling and didn't regret it.

Bronco_Beerslug
04-09-2010, 10:00 AM
From the link I posted earlier...

What is the long-term outlook for a dog with lymphoma? (http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2101&aid=459)

Some owners choose not to treat dogs that develop lymphoma. The life expectancy of these untreated dogs averages 4 to 6 weeks. Oral prednisone therapy may reduce the swellings and discomfort, but probably will not appreciably extend their life span. It must also be noted that oral prednisone treatment prior to chemotherapy is not recommended and may actually reduce the effectiveness of the chemotherapy.

In dogs that do undergo one of the recommended chemotherapy protocols, life expectancy can extend out to a year and occasionally longer. However, even dogs that receive appropriate chemotherapy usually do not live longer than a year. If a dog tolerates chemotherapy (most dogs do) their quality of life can be quite good during the treatment period. Treatment for lymphoma in the dog is considered one of the more successful cancer treatments and can often be performed by a local veterinarian without the need to travel long distances to veterinary schools or specialty clinics. I often remind clients that one year can be almost 10% of a dog's expected life span, so the remission rate and increased life expectancy with lymphoma treatment is often well worth it.

broncosteven
04-09-2010, 11:20 AM
You know, sometimes things hit you right out of the blue and you don't know how they will affect you. Just found out yesterday that my dog has Lymphoma. That sucks really bad, she is a very active lab - the kind that sleeps in my kid's bed at night.

So, I got online and started doing research. I had no idea how common this was. Anyway, it really sucked to tell my son that his dog was dying, but I thought I would ask the posters around here.

Has anyone been through this? Did you do chemo? Did it work? How much was it, and how long did your dog live?

I made an appointment with a vet. oncologist, but thought I would prepare myself (and my son).

Thanks in advance.

Sorry to hear about your bad news.

I have lost my last 2 dogs to a cancer in the bladder and the other to a tumor in his sinuses.

Personally I don't feel right operating on a dog for possibly terminal illinesses, they can't talk about their pain level.

We tried some meds which gave us an extra 9 months with the Bladder cancer dog. You just know when it is time to put them down though.

It is not an easy thing to do but we were with them to the end.

How old is your dog?

Best wishes!

Steve

cmhargrove
04-09-2010, 11:23 AM
Thanks for all the considerate input and advice. I got an appointment this afternoon, and we'll find out how advanced her cancer is.

My dog is 7 years old, and otherwise is very healthy - you wouldn't know she was dying. She has also had a very high pain tolerance her whole life and is a very happy dog. I feel that if she can tolerate the meds without too much discomfort, then 6 months to a year would be worth the money.

Spoiling her for a few months sounds like a really good plan and would help my three boys say goodbye. I think I will set the ground rules with my boys and let them know that if/when she starts to suffer, we need to let her go.

Thanks again for the kind words, this sucks.

TailgateNut
04-09-2010, 12:32 PM
Thanks for all the considerate input and advice. I got an appointment this afternoon, and we'll find out how advanced her cancer is.

My dog is 7 years old, and otherwise is very healthy - you wouldn't know she was dying. She has also had a very high pain tolerance her whole life and is a very happy dog. I feel that if she can tolerate the meds without too much discomfort, then 6 months to a year would be worth the money.

Spoiling her for a few months sounds like a really good plan and would help my three boys say goodbye. I think I will set the ground rules with my boys and let them know that if/when she starts to suffer, we need to let her go.

Thanks again for the kind words, this sucks.


It does, and the only thing I can add is to consider the suffering of the animal. Your boys will be able to deal with the loss after a bit of time and an eventual "replacement dog".:approve: (I always told myself "I'm never doing this again, but have never been without a dog for more than a few months)
I've had 5 dogs in my adult life and have lost them to various illnesses, injuries and old age and it's always tought to say "good bye", but I have usually listened to the advice of the vet. and could also tell if my dogs had lost their will.

Now I'm on my sixth, and althought she's the craziest of all of them, she be part of the family.

Ray Finkle
04-09-2010, 12:51 PM
sorry to hear this...

gunns
04-09-2010, 03:44 PM
It does, and the only thing I can add is to consider the suffering of the animal. Your boys will be able to deal with the loss after a bit of time and an eventual "replacement dog".:approve: (I always told myself "I'm never doing this again, but have never been without a dog for more than a few months)
I've had 5 dogs in my adult life and have lost them to various illnesses, injuries and old age and it's always tought to say "good bye", but I have usually listened to the advice of the vet. and could also tell if my dogs had lost their will.

Now I'm on my sixth, and althought she's the craziest of all of them, she be part of the family.

I lost one of mine in January and my daughter keeps trying to persuade me to get another. I've got two others but I'm just not there right now, I'm still in the "never again" stage. But I've always had dogs and probably always will. I don't think they are replacements, they are the "new dog". The pain is awful when it happens but I find being able to end their suffering helps to know you've done the right thing for them. When I die I hope all my dogs come to greet me in Heaven.

baja
04-09-2010, 03:49 PM
I lost one of mine in January and my daughter keeps trying to persuade me to get another. I've got two others but I'm just not there right now, I'm still in the "never again" stage. But I've always had dogs and probably always will. I don't think they are replacements, they are the "new dog". The pain is awful when it happens but I find being able to end their suffering helps to know you've done the right thing for them. When I die I hope all my dogs come to greet me in Heaven.

Will we have to pick up dog poop in heaven too?

Elway777
04-09-2010, 04:46 PM
I would be given your dog high doses of CoEnyme Q10 plus might use the Cesium therapy or Dca therapy for treating cancer. Both therapies are cheap and only attack cancer cell while leaving normal cells alone.I also might try high doses of Zeolite. High doses of CoEnyme Q10 and Zeolite might be the best treatment because their are no side effects.

tesnyde
04-10-2010, 08:02 AM
The day I was going to graduate from TCU with my doctorate and MBA my bulldog was not himself. He could barely walk. It was like it happened overnight. That was last December 19th. He shrunk up to nothing and we put him to rest on Jan.7th. The vet had determined he had lymphoma and it had matasized (sp?). I was a bit annoyed it took so long. I saw he was dying and hated to see him suffer. Our choice was to never let him suffer and let him be at piece as soon as we heard what he had. He was 10 and that is about avg for a bully. Through out the whole ordeal we had our 4 yr old daughter in on the discussion. She also help bury him the backyard. My wife teaches 3rd grade. Im a school administrator. We believe that things like this; ones which do impact children should be handled with delicacy but also open and honest communication. In addition, my daughter has been raised with a lot fiath. She got through it and has a better sense of the world because of it. It sucked but we made the best of it. That was our way. Best wishes. No matter what you probably second guess your choices but the pain will go away and you and you child will have learned from it.

Pseudofool
04-10-2010, 01:31 PM
Sorry about your dog. Best of luck, dealing with your son.

Bronx33
04-10-2010, 01:53 PM
You know, sometimes things hit you right out of the blue and you don't know how they will affect you. Just found out yesterday that my dog has Lymphoma. That sucks really bad, she is a very active lab - the kind that sleeps in my kid's bed at night.

So, I got online and started doing research. I had no idea how common this was. Anyway, it really sucked to tell my son that his dog was dying, but I thought I would ask the posters around here.

Has anyone been through this? Did you do chemo? Did it work? How much was it, and how long did your dog live?

I made an appointment with a vet. oncologist, but thought I would prepare myself (and my son).

Thanks in advance.

My sisters dog had cancer and had chemo done on her and she lived another 3 or 4 years.

cmhargrove
04-10-2010, 06:56 PM
I guess i'll give an update.

We visited the oncology vet and she did an x-ray and ultrasound. She determined that the lymphoma was in quite a few lymph glands, but hadn't traveled to her organs (a small amount in the spleen). She informed us that the average lifespan without chemo would be about 4-6 weeks of steady decline. With chemo, she will live a pretty normal, happy life for another 18 months (some of her patients have lived several years after).

So, we started the chemo and she rebounded immediately. Tonight, we were playing catch in the backyard and she looks as good as ever. So, we will be in for 6 months of intemittent treatments, then they take her off the meds and see how long she goes.

Anyway, we decided as a family that the expense of chemo was much more valuable than things like satellite tv and even the Sunday Ticket. So, I won't be able to watch any Broncos games live next year, but i will watch the crappy internet feeds and be playing fetch with my dog.

Thanks for all the good advice and friendship. I'll keep updates on the subject if anything comes up.

baja
04-10-2010, 06:59 PM
I guess i'll give an update.

We visited the oncology vet and she did an x-ray and ultrasound. She determined that the lymphoma was in quite a few lymph glands, but hadn't traveled to her organs (a small amount in the spleen). She informed us that the average lifespan without chemo would be about 4-6 weeks of steady decline. With chemo, she will live a pretty normal, happy life for another 18 months (some of her patients have lived several years after).

So, we started the chemo and she rebounded immediately. Tonight, we were playing catch in the backyard and she looks as good as ever. So, we will be in for 6 months of intemittent treatments, then they take her off the meds and see how long she goes.

Anyway, we decided as a family that the expense of chemo was much more valuable than things like satellite tv and even the Sunday Ticket. So, I won't be able to watch any Broncos games live next year, but i will watch the crappy internet feeds and be playing fetch with my dog.

Thanks for all the good advice and friendship. I'll keep updates on the subject if anything comes up.


Maybe someone can hook you up with a sling box good luck with your dog

Dr. Broncenstein
04-10-2010, 07:11 PM
Lyphoma in humans tends to be very repsonsive to chemotherapy. Tends to be. There are exceptions, and those exceptions usually are based upon the overall health or "performance status" of the patient. Not sure how it works in dogs... but I would imagine something similar.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-10-2010, 07:24 PM
I would be given your dog high doses of CoEnyme Q10 plus might use the Cesium therapy or Dca therapy for treating cancer. Both therapies are cheap and only attack cancer cell while leaving normal cells alone.I also might try high doses of Zeolite. High doses of CoEnyme Q10 and Zeolite might be the best treatment because their are no side effects.

I'd like to see some prospective data. I have a hunch that it doesn't exist. So does the national cancer institute.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/coenzymeQ10/Patient/page2

misturanderson
04-10-2010, 07:41 PM
Lyphoma in humans tends to be very repsonsive to chemotherapy. Tends to be. There are exceptions, and those exceptions usually are based upon the overall health or "performance status" of the patient. Not sure how it works in dogs... but I would imagine something similar.

It tends to be very responsive, but the chemotherapy protocols in dogs (for highly metastatic cancers) intend to cause remission and delayed metastasis of the cancer moreso than cure. The thought being that you wouldn't want to subject a dog (who will probably only live a few years longer even if they didn't have cancer) to the type of side effects people on chemo would have to endure.

The desired outcome is a prolonged life with better quality of life rather than a potential cure with months to years of pain and suffering. That isn't to say that some dogs won't go into remission for the rest of their natural lives on their chemo protocol, just that cure doesn't top the list of what they want to accomplish, especially not at the expense of a good quality of life.

misturanderson
04-10-2010, 08:14 PM
I would also say to the OP that there is some fairly good research (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10760770) that shows that greatly increased levels of omega-3 fatty acids in a dog's diet during and after undergoing chemo for lymphoma can increase remission time as well as survival time by an average of about two months. Hill's prescription diet n/d (neoplasia diet) is based on the experimental diet used in the study, so while it is expensive for dog food, it may very well be worth trying out with your dog.

If nothing else, you should probably talk to your vet (if it hasn't already been brought up) about supplementing your dog's food with concentrated fish oil (regular fish oil that you can find at the store doesn't have nearly high enough levels of omega-3s to make a significant difference, without giving so much that they probably couldn't tolerate it). It can't hurt and could help out quite a bit.

And I'm sure that the oncologist let you know this, but dogs that aren't obviously sick (it sounds like your's isn't) when lymphoma is discovered tend to have a better prognosis (ie., longer remission and survival) than those that are outwardly sick at the time of presentation. Hopefully it holds true with your dog.

Tombstone RJ
04-10-2010, 09:04 PM
I guess i'll give an update.

We visited the oncology vet and she did an x-ray and ultrasound. She determined that the lymphoma was in quite a few lymph glands, but hadn't traveled to her organs (a small amount in the spleen). She informed us that the average lifespan without chemo would be about 4-6 weeks of steady decline. With chemo, she will live a pretty normal, happy life for another 18 months (some of her patients have lived several years after).

So, we started the chemo and she rebounded immediately. Tonight, we were playing catch in the backyard and she looks as good as ever. So, we will be in for 6 months of intemittent treatments, then they take her off the meds and see how long she goes.

Anyway, we decided as a family that the expense of chemo was much more valuable than things like satellite tv and even the Sunday Ticket. So, I won't be able to watch any Broncos games live next year, but i will watch the crappy internet feeds and be playing fetch with my dog.

Thanks for all the good advice and friendship. I'll keep updates on the subject if anything comes up.

Cheers! Best wishes in a difficult situation.

TotallyScrewed
04-10-2010, 09:56 PM
I guess i'll give an update.

We visited the oncology vet and she did an x-ray and ultrasound. She determined that the lymphoma was in quite a few lymph glands, but hadn't traveled to her organs (a small amount in the spleen). She informed us that the average lifespan without chemo would be about 4-6 weeks of steady decline. With chemo, she will live a pretty normal, happy life for another 18 months (some of her patients have lived several years after).

So, we started the chemo and she rebounded immediately. Tonight, we were playing catch in the backyard and she looks as good as ever. So, we will be in for 6 months of intemittent treatments, then they take her off the meds and see how long she goes.

Anyway, we decided as a family that the expense of chemo was much more valuable than things like satellite tv and even the Sunday Ticket. So, I won't be able to watch any Broncos games live next year, but i will watch the crappy internet feeds and be playing fetch with my dog.

Thanks for all the good advice and friendship. I'll keep updates on the subject if anything comes up.

I'm glad that everything is looking good.

Enjoy your time together. Dogs are so cool about their pain tolerance. They're so much tougher than people but sometimes it's not a good thing. If things go south, and I hope not, but if they go south you'll know.

My ol' man, the toughest soldier I've ever known, loves his dogs dearly and just knew when they were suffering more than would be acceptable. He loves to hunt and loves his hunting dogs. He'd take them out for a nice walk where they could enjoy their last day and put them down. No vet. No panic or shakes. He said it was better because the dogs enjoyed their last day and didn't have the fear of the vet. But he is one tough soldier. Ironically, it's his current hunting dog that's keeping him going. Get's him up and walking four or five times a day.

Best wishes.

Cito Pelon
04-11-2010, 06:47 AM
Best of luck, CM.

cmhargrove
04-11-2010, 09:50 AM
I would also say to the OP that there is some fairly good research (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10760770) that shows that greatly increased levels of omega-3 fatty acids in a dog's diet during and after undergoing chemo for lymphoma can increase remission time as well as survival time by an average of about two months. Hill's prescription diet n/d (neoplasia diet) is based on the experimental diet used in the study, so while it is expensive for dog food, it may very well be worth trying out with your dog.

If nothing else, you should probably talk to your vet (if it hasn't already been brought up) about supplementing your dog's food with concentrated fish oil (regular fish oil that you can find at the store doesn't have nearly high enough levels of omega-3s to make a significant difference, without giving so much that they probably couldn't tolerate it). It can't hurt and could help out quite a bit.

And I'm sure that the oncologist let you know this, but dogs that aren't obviously sick (it sounds like your's isn't) when lymphoma is discovered tend to have a better prognosis (ie., longer remission and survival) than those that are outwardly sick at the time of presentation. Hopefully it holds true with your dog.

Thank you very much for the info. If we are going to do this, we might as well try our best.

Our vet did recommend the Hills diet, and we started that yesterday. We also bought the fish oil capsules based on her recommendations. My only question on the fish oil is how much is adequate? I followed your link to the abstract but it didn't have all the info.. I guess i'll just try to find the whole article, then talk with my vet.

One one side, it's kind of funny that she will be eating much better now that she's sick.

Thanks again for the article link, I will ask my vet about the fish oil levels when we go in for the next visit.

briane
04-11-2010, 09:56 AM
i had a dog about 10 years ago that went through the same thing. We just enjoyed him while we could and as soon as he became uncomfortable and his quality of life was affected, we put him down. It was hard, but it was for the best. It sucks that we become so attached to pets. I have 2 dogs now, and its going to hurt bad when they go...

misturanderson
04-11-2010, 11:04 AM
Thank you very much for the info. If we are going to do this, we might as well try our best.

Our vet did recommend the Hills diet, and we started that yesterday. We also bought the fish oil capsules based on her recommendations. My only question on the fish oil is how much is adequate? I followed your link to the abstract but it didn't have all the info.. I guess i'll just try to find the whole article, then talk with my vet.

One one side, it's kind of funny that she will be eating much better now that she's sick.

Thanks again for the article link, I will ask my vet about the fish oil levels when we go in for the next visit.

If your dog is on n/d there probably isn't much need for additional fish oil. To achieve maximum blood levels of the omega-3 fatty acid DHA (DHA and EPA are the only ones that we know for sure are helpful), you want to give about 175 mg/kg/day of DHA. Anything higher than that wouldn't be beneficial. What type of fish oil did you get (they all contain different amounts of the different omega-3 fatty acids)?

The basic science behind it is that omega fatty acids make up a fairly large portion of the membranes of all of the cells in your body. When the cells die those fatty acids are released and converted into either inflammatory mediators (omega-6s) or anti-inflammatory mediators (omega-3s). Most diets have an omega-6 : omega-3 ratio of >5:1, n/d is 0.3:1. Because there is so much more omega-3s compared to omega-6s, there is a tendency towards a more anti-inflammatory/anti-proliferation environment in the body which slows the spread and growth of cancers, especially immune system cancers like lymphoma (omega-3s have a huge number of positive effects in pretty much any disease process).

n/d also has a few other nutritional components that have been shown to help in slowing the progression of cancer and provide other beneficial effects to the patient. Increased arginine being one and a greatly decreased amount of calories from carbs being another (cancer cells use carbohydrates much more efficiently than normal cells and have a much harder time using fats than normal cells).

I'm just finishing my 3rd year of vet school at CSU, so if you have any other questions I would be glad to try and answer them. I don't have nearly the same knowledge base as your oncologist does, but I have access to a lot of resources where I can look something up for you if I don't know it off the top of my head.

Edit: also, here is a link to the full study in pdf format (though it doesn't really give the amounts of the specific components of the experimental diet as far as I can tell): http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/75504731/PDFSTART

Elway777
04-11-2010, 08:43 PM
I'd like to see some prospective data. I have a hunch that it doesn't exist. So does the national cancer institute.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/coenzymeQ10/Patient/page2
National Cancer institute does not care about alterative cancer treatment because their main job is protect the profits of big drug companies while doing a little cancer research on the side.

Cesium Theapy, some guy cured his dog with Cesium

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih0rllR_jLY




Some information on zeotite
http://www.cancerfightingstrategies.com/zeolite.html

Some information on DCA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LXH-TJYS5w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGL1LiLzWw

chaz
04-11-2010, 09:53 PM
CM-very sorry to hear of the bad news, but glad to hear the encouraging update. I really hope you and your family get to enjoy every bit of your dog's remaining time, and I think I'd sacrifice sunday ticket for my dog as well :thumbsup:. Your children will really appreciate the extra time, as well as your openness about the situation.

My 16 year-old dog is declining fairly rapidly while I'm away at college; she was my sixth birthday present and I really don't remember life without her. But at least I have had time to come to terms with her aging naturally, I can't imagine how you felt being side-swiped with the news.

Anyways, all the best. Please keep us updated.

misturanderson
04-12-2010, 02:35 PM
National Cancer institute does not care about alterative cancer treatment because their main job is protect the profits of big drug companies while doing a little cancer research on the side.


I'm pretty sure it has more to do with the fact that they won't recommend treatments that have nothing but a few anecdotal reports of efficacy over treatments that have been proven effective in double-blind clinical trials and met FDA approval. Just a thought.

That isn't to say that the therapies that you presented won't help (I kind of doubt it though), just that there isn't any compelling evidence that would make a medical professional recommend them over a proven treatment that has passed the scrutiny of clinical trials. One guy's dog getting better from cesium therapy (and don't forget about the praying!) proves cesium's efficacy as a cancer treatment about as much as a person whose cancer is cured while smoking proving that cigarettes are an effective cancer treatment.

There is a reason that doctors use certain drugs to treat cancer and it is not because they get tons of money from the drug companies. It's because that's what has been proven, in scientific studies, to be effective in treating cancer.

Killericon
04-12-2010, 02:44 PM
My dog Amy, a Kuvasz, was diagnosed with Cancer when she was 1 year old, and arthritis half a year later.

We just put her down this spring, at the age of 12. Dogs are amazing, and you'll never believe what they can do.

Elway777
04-12-2010, 04:46 PM
I'm pretty sure it has more to do with the fact that they won't recommend treatments that have nothing but a few anecdotal reports of efficacy over treatments that have been proven effective in double-blind clinical trials and met FDA approval. Just a thought.

That isn't to say that the therapies that you presented won't help (I kind of doubt it though), just that there isn't any compelling evidence that would make a medical professional recommend them over a proven treatment that has passed the scrutiny of clinical trials. One guy's dog getting better from cesium therapy (and don't forget about the praying!) proves cesium's efficacy as a cancer treatment about as much as a person whose cancer is cured while smoking proving that cigarettes are an effective cancer treatment.

There is a reason that doctors use certain drugs to treat cancer and it is not because they get tons of money from the drug companies. It's because that's what has been proven, in scientific studies, to be effective in treating cancer. My Dad had the worst kind of cancer you could have in small cell lung cancer and given only 2 months to live. He when to Canada to get Dca and in 2 months and he was Cancer free. I not a big fan of the FDA and National cancer institute because they tried to block my Dad from getting DCA. If you don't think the Drug industry which pays more money then anybody else to influence washington does not dictate the cancer reseach agenda then you are quite naive.

misturanderson
04-12-2010, 07:42 PM
My Dad had the worst kind of cancer you could have in small cell lung cancer and given only 2 months to live. He when to Canada to get Dca and in 2 months and he was Cancer free. I not a big fan of the FDA and National cancer institute because they tried to block my Dad from getting DCA. If you don't think the Drug industry which pays more money then anybody else to influence washington does not dictate the cancer reseach agenda then you are quite naive.

I'm glad that it worked for your dad and from what I can find online on DCA, it looks like it could be a promising drug that is indeed being held back due to monetary constraints. It may also cause some serious side effects that haven't been fully studied (but if you're faced with terminal cancer I'm sure side effects are the least of your worries).

It isn't that the drug companies are paying off congress to block the use of DCA, it's that DCA isn't patentable and therefore of little value to the companies that have enough money to pay for the necessary clinical trials for FDA approval. That is just the nature of the FDA and human medical research.

There are plenty of drugs that are legal (and widely used) in other countries, but can't be sold in America because they didn't have the research backing (which costs about $1 billion) for FDA approval. There are also many drugs that are used elsewhere, but due to a very low incidence of serious side effects they were pulled from the market in the U.S.

There's a fine line between blocking people from using drugs that could really help and preventing people from serious complications that weren't picked up by minimal medical testing. The FDA errs on the side of caution in most cases (and yes I'm sure the FDA does submit to the drug companies in some situations due to the money that those companies bring in, but I don't think that is the reason that DCA isn't used in the U.S.).

The other things that you posted I don't buy into whatsoever. When the primary sources of information recommend visiting a naturopath or prayer as an adjunct to therapy, it probably has no real effect except as a placebo.