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Cool Breeze
03-30-2010, 01:20 PM
Jarvis Green happy for McDaniels reunion with Broncos
By Lindsay H. Jones
The Denver Post


Broncos defensive lineman Jarvis Green talks during a press conference at Dove Valley on Tuesday. (John Leyba, The Denver Post)There was no need for an introduction when Jarvis Green showed up to Dove Valley for his free agent visit with the Broncos earlier this month.

It was more like a happy reunion with coach Josh McDaniels.

"My rookie year at New England, he was my first coach. He was a guy I met with every day for 30-45 minutes, and we did that for the entire season," Green said. "We had a great relationship, and that was something that was always sound.

"When free agency hit, my biggest thing was Denver Broncos, Denver Broncos. When we got the call, everything else was pretty straight forward."

Green said he was happy to be playing for McDaniels again, especially after watching McDaniels on the Broncos sideline when Denver
and New England played each other last October. Denver won that game in overtime.

"The last thing I remember was him giving the fist pumps after the game, and I saw that and saw the energy and saw the players playing for him. Everyone wants to play for a coach like that," Green said. "For me, I was in New England for all that time, and I was ready to move on, period. Just watching Josh on the sideline, I was like, I want to feel that too."

Green, who spent eight years playing for the Patriots, is starting his second full week in Denver for the Broncos' voluntary conditioning program. He signed on March 9 as part of McDaniels' plan to revamp the Broncos' defensive line.

Green is projected starter at right defensive end, with new players Jamal Williams at nose tackle and Justin Bannan at the other end spot.

"In this league, players, coaches change teams all the time, so it's going to be a Broncos style. I'm still new to everything, so now I'm just lifting weights and getting to know my teammates," Green said.

"I got some of the basic stuff going on with the defense, but this is 2010 and whatever happens, its going to be a Broncos defense."



Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_14786368#ixzz0jh2dXuFb

Dagmar
03-30-2010, 01:27 PM
http://i39.tinypic.com/214dwza.gif

Rohirrim
03-30-2010, 01:43 PM
"The last thing I remember was him giving the fist pumps after the game, and I saw that and saw the energy and saw the players playing for him. Everyone wants to play for a coach like that," Green said. "For me, I was in New England for all that time, and I was ready to move on, period. Just watching Josh on the sideline, I was like, I want to feel that too."

But I thought the haters said that was a suckass thing to do and nobody wants to play for McDaniels. ???

Tombstone RJ
03-30-2010, 01:46 PM
http://i39.tinypic.com/214dwza.gif

I love it! :notworthy

bpc
03-30-2010, 01:50 PM
I'm glad we drastically overpaid for the same production Kenny Peterson gave us. Really, I am. I would want to fist bump McDaniels right now too if I was Jarvis.

Beantown Bronco
03-30-2010, 01:53 PM
I'm glad we drastically overpaid for the same production Kenny Peterson gave us. Really, I am. I would want to fist bump McDaniels right now too if I was Jarvis.

Comedy gold.

Dagmar
03-30-2010, 01:54 PM
I'm glad we drastically overpaid for the same production Kenny Peterson gave us. Really, I am. I would want to fist bump McDaniels right now too if I was Jarvis.

http://i43.tinypic.com/op4qcm.png

He wasn't that great bpc.

broncocalijohn
03-30-2010, 02:02 PM
I'm glad we drastically overpaid for the same production Kenny Peterson gave us. Really, I am. I would want to fist bump McDaniels right now too if I was Jarvis.

Or you still mad about buying that Peterson jersey with the cool stitching and now have to put it on the top shelp of your closet with the Clarett, Boss Bailey and George Foster jerseys? Peterson wasnt so hot last year. But at least there is proof someone in free agency wants to play for McDaniels and that might burst your hate bubble.

Requiem
03-30-2010, 02:19 PM
Good article, but Green is a guy you want in a part-time role. Metrics show that his effectiveness decreases with more snaps. IMHO, he should not be starting.

Requiem
03-30-2010, 02:20 PM
Or you still mad about buying that Peterson jersey with the cool stitching and now have to put it on the top shelp of your closet with the Clarett, Boss Bailey and George Foster jerseys? Peterson wasnt so hot last year. But at least there is proof someone in free agency wants to play for McDaniels and that might burst your hate bubble.

Maybe jealous that these guys made it and he never did. Suspect it is the one reason he complains about McDaniels' brother ever opportunity he gets. It is like clockwork. :egbgb:

crush17
03-30-2010, 02:24 PM
welcome to the ignore list, bpc. I'm sure all of your buddies there will love to have ya...

DBroncos4life
03-30-2010, 02:25 PM
I'm glad we drastically overpaid for the same production Kenny Peterson gave us. Really, I am. I would want to fist bump McDaniels right now too if I was Jarvis.

We may have over paid for Green but he is a huge upgrade over Peterson.

Good article, but Green is a guy you want in a part-time role. Metrics show that his effectiveness decreases with more snaps. IMHO, he should not be starting.
Agreed.

barryr
03-30-2010, 02:28 PM
I'm hoping Green will provide some much needed energy and fire on the DL that has been missing for some time now. Obviously, not all players have a problem with McDaniels. Maybe the ones that don't produce or act like idiots do and why would you want a roster full of players like that anyway?

HAT
03-30-2010, 02:29 PM
But at least there is proof someone in free agency wants to play for McDaniels and that might burst your hate bubble.

Hell no man...The FA's that go elsewhere, hate McD. The ones that do sign here are laughing at him for overpaying them.

/bpc

Cito Pelon
03-30-2010, 02:57 PM
"its going to be a Broncos defense."

I'd love to see a kickass Bronco defense. Been a long time since we had one.

bpc
03-30-2010, 03:12 PM
http://i43.tinypic.com/op4qcm.png

He wasn't that great bpc.

Kenny Peterson 2009 Stats:

2009 DEN Games - 14 Sacks -1.0 FF-1 0 0 0 0 Tcks -26 Asst -14 Tot - 40

Jarvis Green 2009 Stats:

2009 NWE Games - 11 Sacks - 1.0 FF - 0 Tcks - 22 Asst - 14 Tot - 36


Stats don't lie. This deal wreaks of Lonnie Paxton'ism. BTW, i'm not defending Peterson. I'm just saying we horribly overpaid for the same production we just had.

bpc
03-30-2010, 03:12 PM
We may have over paid for Green but he is a huge upgrade over Peterson.


Agreed.

Stats do not show this.

bpc
03-30-2010, 03:13 PM
welcome to the ignore list, bpc. I'm sure all of your buddies there will love to have ya...

Who are you again and why should I care that you are ignoring me?

barryr
03-30-2010, 03:13 PM
A Bronco defense that can force more 3 plays and punt type of possessions would be great. Seems the last few years the only times those really happen is when the game is out of hand. It seemed to happen more at the beginning of last season, but went away as the season went on.

barryr
03-30-2010, 03:14 PM
Kenny Peterson 2009 Stats:

2009 DEN Games - 14 Sacks -1.0 FF-1 0 0 0 0 Tcks -26 Asst -14 Tot - 40

Jarvis Green 2009 Stats:

2009 NWE Games - 11 Sacks - 1.0 FF - 0 Tcks - 22 Asst - 14 Tot - 36


Stats don't lie. This deal wreaks of Lonnie Paxton'ism. BTW, i'm not defending Peterson. I'm just saying we horribly overpaid for the same production we just had.

What's wrong with Paxton? He seems to be doing fine. Peterson also likely got more snaps in games than Green did with the Pats.

ghwk
03-30-2010, 03:16 PM
I'm glad we drastically overpaid for the same production Kenny Peterson gave us. Really, I am. I would want to fist bump McDaniels right now too if I was Jarvis.

You are seriously the sourest most depressed person on the mane.:spit:

bpc
03-30-2010, 03:18 PM
I'm not depressed at all. Sitting here laughing at schmucks, hanging with my son watching the Rockies/Dodgers exhibition game.

Doesn't change the point though. We drastically overpaid to replace Kenny Peterson with another Patriots player.

Awesome.

Requiem
03-30-2010, 03:25 PM
Green's metrics were better than Peterson's by a decent margin, but neither of them should be starters.

Hamrob
03-30-2010, 03:26 PM
Yeah, I don't think Jarvis Green is the answer either. He has a relationship with McDaniels...I guess that's good...but, he's not all that great either. And, let's don't get started with the Le'Kevin who discussion...

Here's to hoping I have to eat crow.

bpc
03-30-2010, 03:30 PM
What's wrong with Paxton? He seems to be doing fine. Peterson also likely got more snaps in games than Green did with the Pats.

He is doing fine. So was Mike Leach when we decided to overpay a replacement just because he was with McDaniels in NE.

Requiem
03-30-2010, 03:31 PM
What's wrong with Paxton? He seems to be doing fine. Peterson also likely got more snaps in games than Green did with the Pats.

Peterson played 525 snaps on defense in 2008, 619 in 2009.

Green played 608 in 2009 and 870 in 2007.

In 2008, he played only 423 snaps in a part-time role and posted his best metric season over the past three seasons and was highly positive on the year.

Less snaps for Green, the more effective he is. He is not the kind of guy you want starting.

Popps
03-30-2010, 03:44 PM
"The last thing I remember was him giving the fist pumps after the game, and I saw that and saw the energy and saw the players playing for him. Everyone wants to play for a coach like that," Green said. "For me, I was in New England for all that time, and I was ready to move on, period. Just watching Josh on the sideline, I was like, I want to feel that too."[/URL]

We're just trying to win some mother****ing games, Jarvis.

Welcome aboard, Bronco.

crush17
03-30-2010, 03:50 PM
Peterson played 525 snaps on defense in 2008, 619 in 2009.

Green played 608 in 2009 and 870 in 2007.

In 2008, he played only 423 snaps in a part-time role and posted his best metric season over the past three seasons and was highly positive on the year.

Less snaps for Green, the more effective he is. He is not the kind of guy you want starting.

Which is why you'll see McBean rotating in there. There will be heavy rotation.

Requiem
03-30-2010, 03:53 PM
Which is why you'll see McBean rotating in there. There will be heavy rotation.

I'd like to see a rookie in the mix as well. I hope so.

strafen
03-30-2010, 03:58 PM
"The last thing I remember was him giving the fist pumps after the game, and I saw that and saw the energy and saw the players playing for him. Everyone wants to play for a coach like that," Green said. "For me, I was in New England for all that time, and I was ready to move on, period. Just watching Josh on the sideline, I was like, I want to feel that too."

But I thought the haters said that was a suckass thing to do and nobody wants to play for McDaniels. ???

The majority of players outside New England don't want to play for Mcdaniels just as much as some current players.

Lev Vyvanse
03-30-2010, 03:59 PM
The majority of players outside New England don't want to play for Mcdaniels just as much as some current players.

How would you know that?

Requiem
03-30-2010, 04:01 PM
Cause he's a fag.

Drek
03-30-2010, 04:03 PM
I'm not depressed at all. Sitting here laughing at schmucks, hanging with my son watching the Rockies/Dodgers exhibition game.

Doesn't change the point though. We drastically overpaid to replace Kenny Peterson with another Patriots player.

Awesome.

You do realize you're trying to cry nepotism on McDaniels replacing a HIGH SCHOOL TEAMMATE right?

I mean seriously. Peterson and McDaniels played high school football together. They're from the same home town. Yet Peterson is looking for a job. Yep, that nepotism is a real bitch isn't it?

And FYI, Green's contract is basically a 2 year, $7M deal. Pretty standard for a rotational DE in today's market. And the last time Green was used in a rotational capacity and not asked to play outside his niche he put up 6.5 sacks and 7.5 the year before that. Kenny Peterson has 8 sacks in his entire career.

But yeah, totally the same guy, and we overpaid to replace Peterson, and it was yet another sign of nepotism and bias from the organization.

strafen
03-30-2010, 04:03 PM
Cause he's a fag.

Is that all you have to add to make a point?
Explain yourself, buttercup...

barryr
03-30-2010, 04:05 PM
Cause he's a fag.

What the hell is that for? Get help.

Lev Vyvanse
03-30-2010, 04:07 PM
What the hell is that for? Get help.

Maybe he is sick of dragster just making **** up.

strafen
03-30-2010, 04:16 PM
How would you know that?How would you not know that?
Where have you been the last 12 months?
Do I need to state what you already know?

tsiguy96
03-30-2010, 04:21 PM
How would you not know that?
Where have you been the last 12 months?
Do I need to state what you already know?

now you are going from stretching the truth to just straight making **** up. its bad.

Lev Vyvanse
03-30-2010, 04:22 PM
How would you not know that?
Where have you been the last 12 months?
Do I need to state what you already know?

I'm not talking about **** you make up. Show me some evidence that most players don't want to play for Denver.

Dagmar
03-30-2010, 04:24 PM
What the hell is that for? Get help.

I believe he is giving dragster a taste of his own medicine.

tsiguy96
03-30-2010, 04:26 PM
I'm not taking about **** you make up. Show me some evidence that most players don't want to play for Denver.

prediction, hes going to point at the 3 baby amigos (cutler, marshall, scheff)

strafen
03-30-2010, 04:26 PM
now you are going from stretching the truth to just straight making **** up. its bad.Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis, come to mind.
Coaches like Dennison, Nolan and Turner left for a reason, no?

strafen
03-30-2010, 04:30 PM
prediction, hes going to point at the 3 baby amigos (cutler, marshall, scheff)You're right. That's my point. What do I need to point out what you already knew, Scherlock?

And what do you mean by the 3 baby amigos?
That sounds condescendant to me.
Were you saying the same thing about them in 2007?
No, you weren't.
Is a McDaniels thing, right? :thumbsup:

Caveat Lector
03-30-2010, 04:37 PM
How would you know that?

Because Josina tweeted it...

strafen
03-30-2010, 04:39 PM
Because Josina tweeted it...lol!!!
That's it! :thumbs:

bpc
03-30-2010, 04:46 PM
You do realize you're trying to cry nepotism on McDaniels replacing a HIGH SCHOOL TEAMMATE right?

I mean seriously. Peterson and McDaniels played high school football together. They're from the same home town. Yet Peterson is looking for a job. Yep, that nepotism is a real b**** isn't it?

And FYI, Green's contract is basically a 2 year, $7M deal. Pretty standard for a rotational DE in today's market. And the last time Green was used in a rotational capacity and not asked to play outside his niche he put up 6.5 sacks and 7.5 the year before that. Kenny Peterson has 8 sacks in his entire career.

But yeah, totally the same guy, and we overpaid to replace Peterson, and it was yet another sign of nepotism and bias from the organization.

My arguement is that we basically just replaced a cheaper alternative in Peterson with a more expensive model. Is that or isn't that correct? I'm not asking if we're paying for Jarvis Green 3 or 4 years ago... i'm talking about last year. Who had better stats? Did we pay millions of dollars more for the same type of player, statistically?

Spin, spin, spin!

tsiguy96
03-30-2010, 04:52 PM
My arguement is that we basically just replaced a cheaper alternative in Peterson with a more expensive model. Is that or isn't that correct? I'm not asking if we're paying for Jarvis Green 3 or 4 years ago... i'm talking about last year. Who had better stats? Did we pay millions of dollars more for the same type of player, statistically?

Spin, spin, spin!

why do you care how much bowlen or mcd spends, especially in an uncapped year? you are the only person who will argue that green is not better than peterson. jarvis has had a far better careerr and far better upside in an attacking 3-4.

baja
03-30-2010, 04:54 PM
I'm glad we drastically overpaid for the same production Kenny Peterson gave us. Really, I am. I would want to fist bump McDaniels right now too if I was Jarvis.

Ya and that nepotism ridden coach McD shiit canned his best friend for a lateral move and paid more money to boot. Ya I'm sure you are right on this Chris.

baja
03-30-2010, 05:01 PM
I'm not depressed at all. Sitting here laughing at schmucks, hanging with my son watching the Rockies/Dodgers exhibition game.

Doesn't change the point though. We drastically overpaid to replace Kenny Peterson with another Patriots player.

Awesome.

You and Blue should hook up you think so much alike. ;D

strafen
03-30-2010, 05:10 PM
why do you care how much bowlen or mcd spends, especially in an uncapped year? you are the only person who will argue that green is not better than peterson. jarvis has had a far better careerr and far better upside in an attacking 3-4.Wow, what a surprise!
A player gets cut by McDaniels and immediatley is no longer a good player.
Where have I heard that one before?

Kenny Peterson, despite having started 14 games last season, led all Broncos linemen in tackles with 40, which was also a career high

How do you justify this move?

Caveat Lector
03-30-2010, 05:19 PM
Wow, what a surprise!
A player gets cut by McDaniels and immediatley is no longer a good player.
Where have I heard that one before?

Kenny Peterson, despite having started 14 games last season, led all Broncos linemen in tackles with 40, which was also a career high

How do you justify this move?

Jarvis Green had several teams interested in him the minute he became a free agent, and was signed relatively early in the FA period. From what I can gather, Kenny Peterson hasn't had so much as a sniff from anyone and will most likely be eating nachos on the couch when Week 1 rolls around.

Does that give you an idea as to how NFL scouts and teams rate the respective players?

strafen
03-30-2010, 05:24 PM
Jarvis Green had several teams interested in him the minute he became a free agent, and was signed relatively early in the FA period. From what I can gather, Kenny Peterson hasn't had so much as a sniff from anyone and will most likely be eating nachos on the couch when Week 1 rolls around.

Does that give you an idea as to how NFL scouts and teams rate the respective players?

So, you based that on his 2009 performance, then?
That's my basis for my argument, not whether anybody is or is not interested in the guy.
So, by your reasoning, we were able to look into the future and know Peterson was going to flop?

I'm not saying Peterson was a special player by any means, but he didn't do that bad last year showing the effort he put in to later be let go...

Dagmar
03-30-2010, 05:32 PM
Cause he's a fag.

http://i44.tinypic.com/mmwg88.jpg

Dedhed
03-30-2010, 05:40 PM
Who are you again and why should I care that you are ignoring me?

I'm sure he heard that. Moron.

strafen
03-30-2010, 05:41 PM
I'm sure he heard that. Moron.He did now! :D

Dedhed
03-30-2010, 05:42 PM
So, you based that on his 2009 performance, then?
That's my basis for my argument, not whether anybody is or is not interested in the guy.
So, by your reasoning, we were able to look into the future and know Peterson was going to flop?

I'm not saying Peterson was a special player by any means, but he didn't do that bad last year showing the effort he put in to later be let go...

Every time you post I think you've hit the absolute rock bottom for absurdity. And then you post again, and totally outdo yourself. You're a marvel my friend, and true gem to the webz.

Caveat Lector
03-30-2010, 05:46 PM
So, you based that on his 2009 performance, then?
That's my basis for my argument, not whether anybody is or is not interested in the guy.
So, by your reasoning, we were able to look into the future and know Peterson was going to flop?

I'm not saying Peterson was a special player by any means, but he didn't do that bad last year showing the effort he put in to later be let go...

I'm saying you should look a little deeper than stats.

Lets use Tatum Bell circa 2008 as an example -

Dude had a career YPA of 4.9 and averaged 5.7 in '08 on limited carries. The average fan could sit back, look at his stats and think that Taters was a good runner, how the hell could you let him go?

Did McDaniels cut him? Yes
Have we heard from Taters since? No
Are we ever going to hear from Taters again other than selling cell phones in the mall? No

Same could be said for Nate Webster, Jamie Winborn.... the list goes on. Stat production doesn't necessarily = good player.

Lev Vyvanse
03-30-2010, 05:47 PM
every time you post i think you've hit the absolute rock bottom for absurdity. And then you post again, and totally outdo yourself. You're a marvel my friend, and true gem to the webz.

+1

strafen
03-30-2010, 05:48 PM
Every time you post I think you've hit the absolute rock bottom for absurdity. And then you post again, and totally outdo yourself. You're a marvel my friend, and true gem to the webz.That doesn't do anything for me.
What I really want to know is why you're saying that?
Give me a chance to hear your side of the debate to know where you're coming from...
Discuss...

strafen
03-30-2010, 05:50 PM
+1

same to you.
Debate your side of the story that refutes mine?
I certainly want to hear a whole lot more than just +1 for me to be able to understand your point of view.
Care to explain a little?
Thought so... :rofl:

strafen
03-30-2010, 05:52 PM
I'm saying you should look a little deeper than stats.

Lets use Tatum Bell circa 2008 as an example -

Dude had a career YPA of 4.9 and averaged 5.7 in '08 on limited carries. The average fan could sit back, look at his stats and think that Taters was a good runner, how the hell could you let him go?

Did McDaniels cut him? Yes
Have we heard from Taters since? No
Are we ever going to hear from Taters again other than selling cell phones in the mall? No

Same could be said for Nate Webster, Jamie Winborn.... the list goes on. Stat production doesn't necessarily = good player.And how many injuries did he take to get him to sign in 2008 again?
Do you realize that aybody reading this knows the circumstances that brought Bell to the Broncos, right?

Other than that. I agree. Tatum was nothing special and he wasn't going to be kept around anyway.
But Peterson?
You're comparing apples to oranges here...
Nate Webster? Hilarious!

Lev Vyvanse
03-30-2010, 05:54 PM
same to you.
Debate your side of the story that refutes mine?
I certainly want to hear a whole lot more than just +1 for me to be able to understand your point of view.
Care to explain a little?
Thought so... :rofl:

I'm done feeding you.

Cool Breeze
03-30-2010, 05:56 PM
Jarvis Green had several teams interested in him the minute he became a free agent, and was signed relatively early in the FA period. From what I can gather, Kenny Peterson hasn't had so much as a sniff from anyone and will most likely be eating nachos on the couch when Week 1 rolls around.

Does that give you an idea as to how NFL scouts and teams rate the respective players?

This makes too much sense...

strafen
03-30-2010, 05:59 PM
I'm done feeding you.Thought so! :strong:

Dedhed
03-30-2010, 06:01 PM
He did now! :D

You're so clever! Did you get a little chubby there?

Dagmar
03-30-2010, 06:04 PM
Every time a dragster posts god vomits on a kitten.

TonyR
03-30-2010, 06:09 PM
Spin, spin, spin!

When you get owned as bad as you just did, and don't have the class to admit it, it's probably better to bow out. Take a deep breath, lick your wounds, and come back later. Show some dignity and stop further embarrassing yourself.

Br0nc0Buster
03-30-2010, 06:15 PM
Kenny Peterson 2009 Stats:

2009 DEN Games - 14 Sacks -1.0 FF-1 0 0 0 0 Tcks -26 Asst -14 Tot - 40

Jarvis Green 2009 Stats:

2009 NWE Games - 11 Sacks - 1.0 FF - 0 Tcks - 22 Asst - 14 Tot - 36


Stats don't lie. This deal wreaks of Lonnie Paxton'ism. BTW, i'm not defending Peterson. I'm just saying we horribly overpaid for the same production we just had.

are you serious with this crap?
you cant judge defensive linemen in a 3-4 from stats

Ty Warren's stats from 09:
46 total tackles
13 assists
1 sack
0 forced fumbles

I guess according to your logic the Patriots are horribly overpaying for the production of Kenny Peterson
"stats dont lie"

bpc
03-30-2010, 07:26 PM
You and Blue should hook up you think so much alike. ;D

I'm married. Thanks tho! :~ohyah!:

bpc
03-30-2010, 07:27 PM
Jarvis Green had several teams interested in him the minute he became a free agent, and was signed relatively early in the FA period. From what I can gather, Kenny Peterson hasn't had so much as a sniff from anyone and will most likely be eating nachos on the couch when Week 1 rolls around.

Does that give you an idea as to how NFL scouts and teams rate the respective players?

Same stats, no?

bpc
03-30-2010, 07:29 PM
I'm sure he heard that. Moron.

Dedhed, you're kinda mean.

Nice picture tho'.

bpc
03-30-2010, 07:30 PM
When you get owned as bad as you just did, and don't have the class to admit it, it's probably better to bow out. Take a deep breath, lick your wounds, and come back later. Show some dignity and stop further embarrassing yourself.

Has anybody proven me wrong yet? Did we not lose in the economics of this deal? Are we not paying more for the same production?

bpc
03-30-2010, 07:36 PM
are you serious with this crap?
you cant judge defensive linemen in a 3-4 from stats

Ty Warren's stats from 09:
46 total tackles
13 assists
1 sack
0 forced fumbles

I guess according to your logic the Patriots are horribly overpaying for the production of Kenny Peterson
"stats dont lie"

Can't compare the two in all honesty. Peterson and Green are relative similar commodities in production, size, and pedigree.

I'd probably be willing to pay more for a guy like Warren who is two or three years younger, 2-3 inches taller, and 15-20 lbs heavier.

Oh I know, you don't see that as a big deal but I would beg to differ. To finalize the point, his stats are still a little bit better vs. either Peterson or Green. Which would make that a slam dunk. Jarvis Green being the only guy who probably didn't think McDaniels was a douchebag intern as he ran errands for the big boys is just repaying his loyalty.

Fail.

Dedhed
03-30-2010, 07:39 PM
The majority of players outside New England don't want to play for Mcdaniels just as much as some current players.

Should we follow your well reasoned and evidence laden takes like this one?

Dedhed
03-30-2010, 07:41 PM
Can't compare the two in all honesty.

Because according to BPC you can't use stats unless they are in support of his argument, and if you do he just gets to dismiss them out of hand.

It's not worth the effort.

Ray Finkle
03-30-2010, 07:41 PM
Kenny Peterson 2009 Stats:

2009 DEN Games - 14 Sacks -1.0 FF-1 0 0 0 0 Tcks -26 Asst -14 Tot - 40

Jarvis Green 2009 Stats:

2009 NWE Games - 11 Sacks - 1.0 FF - 0 Tcks - 22 Asst - 14 Tot - 36


Stats don't lie. This deal wreaks of Lonnie Paxton'ism. BTW, i'm not defending Peterson. I'm just saying we horribly overpaid for the same production we just had.

Really? You are going to compare stats and show one person equals another? That is like saying Peyton Manning is half the QB that Brett Favre is because Favre has better stats.....

DBroncos4life
03-30-2010, 07:48 PM
Stats do not show this.

Yes they do.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=Peterson&playerid=1394

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=Green&playerid=1124

Peterson had 2 QB pressures all season long, Green had 11.

baja
03-30-2010, 07:57 PM
Thought so! :strong:

I'm so glad you are here, every board needs a whipping boy and you are tops at being it.

Caveat Lector
03-30-2010, 08:10 PM
Same stats, no?

Yep that's exactly what NFL scouts and execs do at the end of every year. Compile a list of every player's stats at every position, and decide who they're going to go after in FA. No game film, no scouting, just stats... :thumbsup:

Br0nc0Buster
03-30-2010, 08:16 PM
Can't compare the two in all honesty. Peterson and Green are relative similar commodities in production, size, and pedigree.

I'd probably be willing to pay more for a guy like Warren who is two or three years younger, 2-3 inches taller, and 15-20 lbs heavier.

Oh I know, you don't see that as a big deal but I would beg to differ. To finalize the point, his stats are still a little bit better vs. either Peterson or Green. Which would make that a slam dunk. Jarvis Green being the only guy who probably didn't think McDaniels was a douchebag intern as he ran errands for the big boys is just repaying his loyalty.

Fail.

Warren had like 6 more tackles than Peterson, but not as many forced fumbles
Statistically speaking, at least based on the stats you apparently evaluate linemen with, they are equals or very close to being equal

Yet anyone with even a basic knowledge of football knows Ty Warren is a much better player than Kenny Peterson even though the stats dont reflect this

Its almost like you dont know what the job of a 3-4 lineman is

ELEVATION
03-31-2010, 07:11 AM
Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis, come to mind.
Coaches like Dennison, Nolan and Turner left for a reason, no?

yeah its called pay raises and promotions tool.....but hey who would want that.....

strafen
03-31-2010, 08:32 AM
yeah its called pay raises and promotions tool.....but hey who would want that.....Wow.
I thought Florida Bronco was good at spinning things around here.
So, we call it promotion and pay raises, huh?
Oh my God. This blind love for McD has turned people into idiots!!! :D

Mr.Meanie
03-31-2010, 09:04 AM
Warren had like 6 more tackles than Peterson, but not as many forced fumbles
Statistically speaking, at least based on the stats you apparently evaluate linemen with, they are equals or very close to being equal

Yet anyone with even a basic knowledge of football knows Ty Warren is a much better player than Kenny Peterson even though the stats dont reflect this

Its <s>almost</s> like you dont know what the job of a 3-4 lineman is

more accurate

ELEVATION
03-31-2010, 09:42 AM
Wow.
I thought Florida Bronco was good at spinning things around here.
So, we call it promotion and pay raises, huh?
Oh my God. This blind love for McD has turned people into idiots!!! :D

jesus your a clown and have been on any board you go to....

Dennison went from OL coach TO OC---that my incompetent friend is a pay raise and promotion

Turner went from RB coach, to Associate asst Coach- that is a raise and promotion

Nolan went to miami for a bigger contract---hence pay raise....

so....do i need to give you any more wake-up calls or is reality to hard for you....

the only idiot is you.....truth hurts i know....


in reccession money is key, loyalty or your former employer is not.....

Rohirrim
03-31-2010, 09:53 AM
The majority of players outside New England don't want to play for Mcdaniels just as much as some current players.

That's why I come here, to get all the insider info from geniuses like you.

crush17
03-31-2010, 10:09 AM
where do these idiots keep coming from?? go back to your caves, trolls!

bpc
03-31-2010, 10:45 AM
Really? You are going to compare stats and show one person equals another? That is like saying Peyton Manning is half the QB that Brett Favre is because Favre has better stats.....

Wait I compared Cutler stats to Peyton Manning through his career in Denver and you guys freaked out... ha ha.

Some of you guys pull tricks like it's cool! ha ha.

bpc
03-31-2010, 10:46 AM
Yes they do.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=Peterson&playerid=1394

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=Green&playerid=1124

Peterson had 2 QB pressures all season long, Green had 11.

Wait, he might have breathed on the QB an extra 11 times over 16 games and you're counting on that being stats?

Right.

I don't like gray areas. Give me black and white please. Thanks.

ELEVATION
03-31-2010, 10:47 AM
Wait, he might have breathed on the QB an extra 11 times over 16 games and you're counting on that being stats?

Right.

I don't like gray areas. Give me black and white please. Thanks.

Qb pressures lead to bad plays by the o, turnovers, fumbles, ints.....pressure creates problems, green had more....enough said....

bpc
03-31-2010, 10:48 AM
Yep that's exactly what NFL scouts and execs do at the end of every year. Compile a list of every player's stats at every position, and decide who they're going to go after in FA. No game film, no scouting, just stats... :thumbsup:

Maybe not but the stats, measurables are so exactly similar, there is nothing to differentiate the two. Both are older, both are around the same size, both were 3rd and 4th round picks, and both have limited production over the past two years.

Basically we just overbought on the same model of player we were quick to get rid of.

I think it's funny that you guys are trying to valiantly to hype this move when it's average at best. Just like we had with Peterson.

bpc
03-31-2010, 10:50 AM
Warren had like 6 more tackles than Peterson, but not as many forced fumbles
Statistically speaking, at least based on the stats you apparently evaluate linemen with, they are equals or very close to being equal

Yet anyone with even a basic knowledge of football knows Ty Warren is a much better player than Kenny Peterson even though the stats dont reflect this

Its almost like you dont know what the job of a 3-4 lineman is

You don't acknowledge that size is a factor in prospects which I eluded to on the last page of this thread? It's like you can't read or have never evaluated talent before. Hmmmmm....

DBroncos4life
03-31-2010, 10:52 AM
Wait, he might have breathed on the QB an extra 11 times over 16 games and you're counting on that being stats?

Right.

I don't like gray areas. Give me black and white please. Thanks.

You don't like gray areas? You were a scout for the AFL, you of all people should know that football plays are not a simple as something that shows up on a stat book.

bpc
03-31-2010, 10:57 AM
You don't like gray areas? You were a scout for the AFL, you of all people should know that football plays are not a simple as something that shows up on a stat book.

There are gray areas for extremely talented players. Say Elvis Dumervil who is 5'11, 265, isn't super strong or has blazing speed of the LOS. Definitely not what you're looking for in a DE or potentially an OLB but he's got the "it" factor to set him apart combined with his leverage and arm length.

Can you say this about Jarvis Green? No, you cannot. There is no it factor. He has the exact same specs as Peterson, he's produced basically the exact same stats over the past few years and his upside is extremely limited at 31/32 years of age.

Sorry folks, but these are the facts. Sugarcoat it all you want but this is the truth. Get behind the signing because you think McDaniels is a genius but I highly doubt we see much more production out of this position vs. what we had last year.

ELEVATION
03-31-2010, 11:04 AM
There are gray areas for extremely talented players. Say Elvis Dumervil who is 5'11, 265, isn't super strong or has blazing speed of the LOS. Definitely not what you're looking for in a DE or potentially an OLB but he's got the "it" factor to set him apart combined with his leverage and arm length.

Can you say this about Jarvis Green? No, you cannot. There is no it factor. He has the exact same specs as Peterson, he's produced basically the exact same stats over the past few years and his upside is extremely limited at 31/32 years of age.

Sorry folks, but these are the facts. Sugarcoat it all you want but this is the truth. Get behind the signing because you think McDaniels is a genius but I highly doubt we see much more production out of this position vs. what we had last year.

really jarvis green has 17 sacks and like 136 tackles in the last 4 years, and

peterson has 117 tackles and eight sacks since his career started in 2003....some reality you live in there bud....

Requiem
03-31-2010, 11:15 AM
Haven't agreed with BPC much lately, but I think his take on the Green situation is spot on. The only way I will be happy with Green's performance is if it proves well through a heavy rotation. I posted his # of snaps the past 3 seasons and you can clearly see, with more snaps, he wears down and his metrics decline in a huge way. I was actually not happy with this signing.

Drek
03-31-2010, 11:21 AM
Haven't agreed with BPC much lately, but I think his take on the Green situation is spot on. The only way I will be happy with Green's performance is if it proves well through a heavy rotation. I posted his # of snaps the past 3 seasons and you can clearly see, with more snaps, he wears down and his metrics decline in a huge way. I was actually not happy with this signing.

He's meant to be in a rotation. Same with Jamal Williams. McBean, Fields, etc. will all still get on the field regularly.

DBroncos4life
03-31-2010, 11:23 AM
There are gray areas for extremely talented players. Say Elvis Dumervil who is 5'11, 265, isn't super strong or has blazing speed of the LOS. Definitely not what you're looking for in a DE or potentially an OLB but he's got the "it" factor to set him apart combined with his leverage and arm length.

Can you say this about Jarvis Green? No, you cannot. There is no it factor. He has the exact same specs as Peterson, he's produced basically the exact same stats over the past few years and his upside is extremely limited at 31/32 years of age.

Sorry folks, but these are the facts. Sugarcoat it all you want but this is the truth. Get behind the signing because you think McDaniels is a genius but I highly doubt we see much more production out of this position vs. what we had last year.

Yes because we both know I'm a huge McD nut swinger. The fact is Peterson was very bad vs the run and gave us nothing in terms of pass rushing. The stats from the web site showed you that. Green on the other hand was able to provide somewhat of a pass rush last year and was better in stopping the run.

I agree with you that the contract amount Green got was too high, but clearly I don't agree with you on the type of player Green is vs Peterson. There is nothing in Peterson's stats that would ever lead you to think that he would suddenly get better at rushing the passer. Green on the other hand has had much better history at it.

bpc
03-31-2010, 11:30 AM
Yes because we both know I'm a huge McD nut swinger. The fact is Peterson was very bad vs the run and gave us nothing in terms of pass rushing. The stats from the web site showed you that. Green on the other hand was able to provide somewhat of a pass rush last year and was better in stopping the run.

I agree with you that the contract amount Green got was too high, but clearly I don't agree with you on the type of player Green is vs Peterson. There is nothing in Peterson's stats that would ever lead you to think that he would suddenly get better at rushing the passer. Green on the other hand has had much better history at it.

Well I think you'll see the exact same production from him next year. Peterson was heavily used in rotation and if I recall correctly, our run defense was pretty damn good over the 1st half of the year and then broke down. I imagine that Green will wear down next year, especially in a starting role, just like Peterson did before him.

BTW before you all get so involved in hyping Jarvis Green's 6.4 sacks or whatever he had 3years ago, also keep in mind that he was playing on a team that had the best offense in the history of the NFL. All but maybe two of the Patriot games were blowouts for the defense that year leading to a lot of pass happy opposing offenses throwing frequently giving Green tremendous opportunities at sacks. I hate to break it to you but our Kyle Orton led offense will not provide him these same opportunities.

It's just facts folks. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

bpc
03-31-2010, 11:31 AM
really jarvis green has 17 sacks and like 136 tackles in the last 4 years, and

peterson has 117 tackles and eight sacks since his career started in 2003....some reality you live in there bud....

Please see the post above. Thank you.

-Management

DBroncos4life
03-31-2010, 11:41 AM
Well I think you'll see the exact same production from him next year. Peterson was heavily used in rotation and if I recall correctly, our run defense was pretty damn good over the 1st half of the year and then broke down. I imagine that Green will wear down next year, especially in a starting role, just like Peterson did before him.

BTW before you all get so involved in hyping Jarvis Green's 6.4 sacks or whatever he had 3years ago, also keep in mind that he was playing on a team that had the best offense in the history of the NFL. All but maybe two of the Patriot games were blowouts for the defense that year leading to a lot of pass happy opposing offenses throwing frequently giving Green tremendous opportunities at sacks. I hate to break it to you but our Kyle Orton led offense will not provide him these same opportunities.

It's just facts folks. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

What the excuse for him getting 7.5 sacks in 06 then?

Requiem
03-31-2010, 11:46 AM
He's meant to be in a rotation. Same with Jamal Williams. McBean, Fields, etc. will all still get on the field regularly.

Yes. I am hoping that in a heavy rotation, we can see good metrics and performance like a few years ago. I think BPC's criticisms are fairly just, but do hope Green can bring some experience and some grit to our offensive front. I like him, Wililams and Bannan taking over for our guys last year. Add another DL or two in the draft, and hopefully **** happens. :egbgb:

ELEVATION
03-31-2010, 12:01 PM
Well I think you'll see the exact same production from him next year. Peterson was heavily used in rotation and if I recall correctly, our run defense was pretty damn good over the 1st half of the year and then broke down. I imagine that Green will wear down next year, especially in a starting role, just like Peterson did before him.

BTW before you all get so involved in hyping Jarvis Green's 6.4 sacks or whatever he had 3years ago, also keep in mind that he was playing on a team that had the best offense in the history of the NFL. All but maybe two of the Patriot games were blowouts for the defense that year leading to a lot of pass happy opposing offenses throwing frequently giving Green tremendous opportunities at sacks. I hate to break it to you but our Kyle Orton led offense will not provide him these same opportunities.

It's just facts folks. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

this is true and a good post, as others have said green is meant for rotation, but he is far better than peterson....its not even close....that was my point

Drek
03-31-2010, 12:28 PM
Yes. I am hoping that in a heavy rotation, we can see good metrics and performance like a few years ago. I think BPC's criticisms are fairly just, but do hope Green can bring some experience and some grit to our offensive front. I like him, Wililams and Bannan taking over for our guys last year. Add another DL or two in the draft, and hopefully **** happens. :egbgb:

Its only just criticism if Green and Peterson really where comparable players, and if we actually overpaid for Green like he said.

In reality Green has a specialized skill set that injuries and trades have forced him out of as of late in NE, and he's basically on a 2 year, $7M deal, not a bank breaker by any stretch.

bpc
03-31-2010, 12:41 PM
What the excuse for him getting 7.5 sacks in 06 then?

Broncos went to the AFC CHampionship in 05'. Man, that feels like AGES ago! Some kids have graduated high school and college in that time frame.

RELATIVE quote! Keep it up!

bpc
03-31-2010, 12:42 PM
this is true and a good post, as others have said green is meant for rotation, but he is far better than peterson....its not even close....that was my point

And to reiterate, the stats do not support this.

Round and round we go.

I'll end this by saying, like all things mcdaniels, I hope i'm wrong. We'll see.

DBroncos4life
03-31-2010, 01:05 PM
Broncos went to the AFC CHampionship in 05'. Man, that feels like AGES ago! Some kids have graduated high school and college in that time frame.

RELATIVE quote! Keep it up!

Right man. One player has 28 career sacks the other has 8. One has been a pretty valuable rotational piece for a team that has multiple playoff wins/super bowl victories and the other is a borderline NFL journeyman. Hell 2009 was Kenny Peterson's best NFL season and it still wasn't that great. We gave Peterson a try and he was one of the weaker players on the D-line for us. It's time to try someone else.

TonyR
03-31-2010, 01:19 PM
...you guys are trying to valiantly to hype this move when it's average at best.

Who's doing this, exactly? What I see is people defending the move from your overly negative spin. I don't think anybody is expecting Jarvis Green to come in here and be a Pro Bowler, but he's a nice component to an improved D-line rotation. And why are you so concerned with the money? Overpaying is what FA is all about, unfortunately. It's supply and demand. Let Xanders and Ellis worry about the contracts and budget, you get back to whatever it is you do. Maybe catch some Oprah or something.

bpc
03-31-2010, 02:11 PM
Right man. One player has 28 career sacks the other has 8. One has been a pretty valuable rotational piece for a team that has multiple playoff wins/super bowl victories and the other is a borderline NFL journeyman. Hell 2009 was Kenny Peterson's best NFL season and it still wasn't that great. We gave Peterson a try and he was one of the weaker players on the D-line for us. It's time to try someone else.

We had a bunch of part time players last year. 0 starters. That is my complete problem in this scenario. We took one part-time player in Peterson, and replaced him with another part-time player in which we paid that person a much better wage. Same goods in the end though.

What do we have rostered on the DL right now? Still, a bunch of part-time players. We're praying that Jamal Williams can buck that trend.

bpc
03-31-2010, 02:13 PM
Who's doing this, exactly? What I see is people defending the move from your overly negative spin. I don't think anybody is expecting Jarvis Green to come in here and be a Pro Bowler, but he's a nice component to an improved D-line rotation. And why are you so concerned with the money? Overpaying is what FA is all about, unfortunately. It's supply and demand. Let Xanders and Roseman worry about the contracts and budget, you get back to whatever it is you do. Maybe catch some Oprah or something.

Where's the negative spin? All I'm saying is we replaced player A, with player B, they give you the exact same thing but you paid x more amount of dollars for the replacement.

It's bad economics. I imagine the return on the field will be the same.

Negative?

tsiguy96
03-31-2010, 02:25 PM
Where's the negative spin? All I'm saying is we replaced player A, with player B, they give you the exact same thing but you paid x more amount of dollars for the replacement.

It's bad economics. I imagine the return on the field will be the same.

Negative?

as has been said several times, they clearly do not give you the same thing or the market would hvae defined petersons value as very similar. in fact hes gonna have trouble signing with a team for more than small rotational role for near league minimum. 3-4 lineman are not judged on their stats, as has been said 100 times yet you refuse to acknowledge you are wrong.

and why do you honestly care how much the team spends on its players that will help improve the team? are YOU paying for it?

Br0nc0Buster
03-31-2010, 02:37 PM
You don't acknowledge that size is a factor in prospects which I eluded to on the last page of this thread? It's like you can't read or have never evaluated talent before. Hmmmmm....

so size makes someone better?
Ty Warren is better than Peterson simply because he is 5 lb heavier and 2 inches taller?

so Kenny Peterson is the same as Green because of stats, but Warren is better than both because of size...yeah ok
Ok what if I found someone who has both better stats and better size than Warren, would that automatically make them a superior player?

why dont we find out:
Tell me who is the superior player between player A and player B
Player A is 6'5" 310 lb and had over 60 tackles last year
player B is 6'5" 300 lb and had around 45 tackles last year

both played DE in a 3-4

who is better?

if Green is equal to Peterson because of stats but inferior to warren because of size then you should have all the info you need to "evaluate talent"

DBroncos4life
03-31-2010, 02:42 PM
We had a bunch of part time players last year. 0 starters. That is my complete problem in this scenario. We took one part-time player in Peterson, and replaced him with another part-time player in which we paid that person a much better wage. Same goods in the end though.

What do we have rostered on the DL right now? Still, a bunch of part-time players. We're praying that Jamal Williams can buck that trend.

No we are getting a guy with a much better back ground of success plain and simple. Pats fans think Green was good when called on to replace Seymour in spots. He broken down as a starter for long periods of time. Even if Green is only successful in a rotation he still is SUCCESSFUL, something Peterson wasn't capable of providing us.

Popps
03-31-2010, 04:08 PM
No we are getting a guy with a much better back ground of success plain and simple. Pats fans think Green was good when called on to replace Seymour in spots. He broken down as a starter for long periods of time. Even if Green is only successful in a rotation he still is SUCCESSFUL, something Peterson wasn't capable of providing us.

Agree, and I was a fan of Peterson... but clearly, things fell apart down the stretch and you can't blame the staff for looking to make changes/improvements.

DBroncos4life
03-31-2010, 05:11 PM
Agree, and I was a fan of Peterson... but clearly, things fell apart down the stretch and you can't blame the staff for looking to make changes/improvements.

It boils down to the 4 year 20 million dollar contract Green got in BPC's eyes. The only way he makes it to see the 3rd and 4th year of that contract is if he is playing at a pro bowl level. Let's be honest here no way that really will happen. So at worst we get a guy that is better then Peterson for two years at 7 million and we move on. Peterson has never shown the ability that Green has period. Not as a starter nor a role player.

From the sounds of it Dwan Edwards got a 4 year 18 million dollar contract from the Bills. He failed two physicals. I think we made the better choice.

ELEVATION
04-01-2010, 03:53 AM
And to reiterate, the stats do not support this.

Round and round we go.

I'll end this by saying, like all things mcdaniels, I hope i'm wrong. We'll see.

we are going round and round because you dont pay attention...in his last 4 years green has 17 sacks and 140 tackles, in petersons whole career since he entered the league in 2003(SEVEN YEARS AGO!!!!!!!) he has 117 tackles and 8 sacks....

the stats since you went there...support green as the better player and a upgrade over peterson no matter how you wanna spin it....

watermock
04-01-2010, 04:29 AM
Good god.

It boils down to the 4 year 20 million dollar contract Green got in BPC's eyes. The only way he makes it to see the 3rd and 4th year of that contract is if he is playing at a pro bowl level. Let's be honest here no way that really will happen. So at worst we get a guy that is better then Peterson for two years at 7 million and we move on. Peterson has never shown the ability that Green has period. Not as a starter nor a role player.

From the sounds of it Dwan Edwards got a 4 year 18 million dollar contract from the Bills. He failed two physicals. I think we made the better choice.

Who care what the ****ing Bills do?

tsiguy96
04-01-2010, 05:39 AM
again, he is improving a spot that is relatively weak on the team. stats or not, he is better than peterson and an upgrade to the team. there is a reason he signed right away in FA and peterson will likely be a late TC signee to a team. 3-4 lineman are not judged on stats because part of their job is to NOT put up stats but hold blocks so the guys behind them can. its not YOUR money he spent, its dumb to think we overpay when ther eis no cap and WE did not pay anything.

fontaine
04-01-2010, 05:53 AM
McDaniels and the FO did the best they could getting guys like Bannan/Williams/Green in a very, very limited free agent class.

It's not a long term solution, it's probably not even a playoff winning solution but it was the best of what was on offer.

The real deal and true measure of any FO/Coach is the abililty to build a long term contender through the draft. Virtually every perennial playoff contender is built this way and they use FA to add one or two missing pieces, not build their entire DL with aging players.

Whether McDaniels does that or not, I don't know. His draft last year didn't yield high impact you would expect from multiple first day picks but then again Shanahan - as good a game day coach as he was - didn't get much return out of most drafts at all.

ward63
04-01-2010, 08:33 AM
Broncos went to the AFC CHampionship in 05'. Man, that feels like AGES ago! Some kids have graduated high school and college in that time frame.

RELATIVE quote! Keep it up!

That's me...Graduated high school in '05 and then Miami in '09

bpc
04-01-2010, 09:04 AM
we are going round and round because you dont pay attention...in his last 4 years green has 17 sacks and 140 tackles, in petersons whole career since he entered the league in 2003(SEVEN YEARS AGO!!!!!!!) he has 117 tackles and 8 sacks....

the stats since you went there...support green as the better player and a upgrade over peterson no matter how you wanna spin it....

4 years ago.

bpc
04-01-2010, 09:05 AM
That's me...Graduated high school in '05 and then Miami in '09

You want a cookie? ha ha.

ELEVATION
04-01-2010, 09:39 AM
4 years ago.


jesus.....


http://www.nfl.com/players/kennypeterson/profile?id=PET336351

peterson is in his eighth year.....